BattleMaster Community
BattleMaster => Locals => Atamara => Topic started by: Dante Silverfire on January 21, 2013, 10:57:11 PM
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Okay, so I'm wondering what people's thoughts are for what the future of Atamara will be like. For all intents and purposes, the Great Atamaran War is coming to an end soon. Eston has surrendered unconditionally, CE and co are looking north to possibly attack Darka and/or BoM, Abington II (Suville) is twiddling their thumbs, CE and Tara Federation sits astride the center of the map continuing to split Atamara into thirds, and many new smaller and medium sized realms are in the north and one in the south.
What's next?
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Brutal religious conflict pitting brother against brother? (I hope)
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Brutal religious conflict pitting brother against brother? (I hope)
That won't happen, not for many years most likely.
It is more likely the southern conflict gets out of hand, severely.
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That won't happen, not for many years most likely.
It is more likely the southern conflict gets out of hand, severely.
If I am lucky it becomes everyone kicking Suville's ass which could have already been happening but my queen chose peace as I might have said before...
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Prolonged, uninterrupted, mind-numbing boredom.
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Prolonged, uninterrupted, mind-numbing boredom.
No, I was talking about the future not what's happening now.
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No, I was talking about the future not what's happening now.
The present, the future, they don't look too different from where I'm sitting.
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No, I was talking about the future not what's happening now.
Me, too.
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The present, the future, they don't look too different from where I'm sitting.
Gangbang the aggressor might call a war and peace everywhere else. I agree with the future being similar to the present but there are chances for actual war though only one that might not benefit CE and co.
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Will we ever have another continent wide conflict like this one? (this large)
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Will we ever have another continent wide conflict like this one? (this large)
Not anytime soon, IMO. (Soon being next few years)
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Oh ye of little faith!
Matthew 10:34
(Disclaimer: Not Christian. Lived in Jesus-land for far too long.)
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Well, for now, Darka aint sleeping :P
Future of Darka is pretty much on hands of CE, what ever they decide they want from us. Never heard that.
But indeed, unless something unexpected happens, Darka prolly will be splitted, if not totally destroyed. Then there will be prolly few smaller conflicts. Ofcourse everybody must ask first permission from Emperor to do such stunt move as start war against another puppet of Empire. So with luck we might have small border wars if Empire allows such entertainment. Other than that, i bet there will be a lot peacemaster playing ahead. Next few weeks will prolly be few decent battles at Darkan soil.
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Well, for now, Darka aint sleeping :P
Future of Darka is pretty much on hands of CE, what ever they decide they want from us. Never heard that.
But indeed, unless something unexpected happens, Darka prolly will be splitted, if not totally destroyed. Then there will be prolly few smaller conflicts. Ofcourse everybody must ask first permission from Emperor to do such stunt move as start war against another puppet of Empire. So with luck we might have small border wars if Empire allows such entertainment. Other than that, i bet there will be a lot peacemaster playing ahead. Next few weeks will prolly be few decent battles at Darkan soil.
This is a great point.
If the folks in CE really want to do something memorable, and not just establish virtually the same generic hegemony they have wielded for years now all over again, they now have an incredible opportunity to set up perhaps the largest and most powerful of the "Empire Systems" that have become so trendy lately in BM.
A system where a number of nations all (legally, not just de facto) are under the Empire/sovereignty of the Cagilan Hegemony, but remain able to fight wars with fellow wars as long as approved, etc. You know what I'm talking about. Perhaps it could grease the wheels of what is likely to become a few years of peace. Perhaps it could have something similar to the Arcean "Fighting Season" to really spice things up.
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Does anyone know what will happen to Eston? Will CE found a new puppet state there, or do they have other plans for it?
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Does anyone know what will happen to Eston? Will CE found a new puppet state there, or do they have other plans for it?
It depends what you consider a puppet state. Some may consider the terms presented to Eston being ones that create a puppet state. However, CE has other plans in mind. They aren't finalized yet as far as I know, and as I'm not a member of CE I'll leave it to one of them to mention if they feel they'd like to.
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Does anyone know what will happen to Eston? Will CE found a new puppet state there, or do they have other plans for it?
I do know what will happen, stay tuned :P
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CE simply doesn't have the nobles to replace the northern realms. I would imagine that the terms will include things like placing trusted Empire nobles in ducal seats and council positions. They can essentially take over control of the realms, without recolonizing.
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CE simply doesn't have the nobles to replace the northern realms. I would imagine that the terms will include things like placing trusted Empire nobles in ducal seats and council positions. They can essentially take over control of the realms, without recolonizing.
This is very interesting. I always like reading perspectives of other sides.
Its nothing like that. I'm trying to figure out if its better or worse though what they want to do. Frankly, they should have sent terms days ago, but whatever.
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I suppose it would be difficult to find people willing to do things like that. It would probably not be a very pleasant play experience.
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This is very interesting. I always like reading perspectives of other sides.
Its nothing like that. I'm trying to figure out if its better or worse though what they want to do. Frankly, they should have sent terms days ago, but whatever.
This delay is starting to irritate me also, and I play a Duke in CE.
And that is both IC and OOC (although OOC I know a lot more than IC. And if my char knew all that I do, he would be even more irritated and vocal).
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This is a great point.
If the folks in CE really want to do something memorable, and not just establish virtually the same generic hegemony they have wielded for years now all over again, they now have an incredible opportunity to set up perhaps the largest and most powerful of the "Empire Systems" that have become so trendy lately in BM.
A system where a number of nations all (legally, not just de facto) are under the Empire/sovereignty of the Cagilan Hegemony, but remain able to fight wars with fellow wars as long as approved, etc. You know what I'm talking about. Perhaps it could grease the wheels of what is likely to become a few years of peace. Perhaps it could have something similar to the Arcean "Fighting Season" to really spice things up.
"Dance puppets, DANCE!"
That's all I can hear after reading this. Talk about lame. Every war would essentially be phony, conducted with permission and with the outcome likely pre-determined by the favor of the Empire. It would be even worse than the Long Peace on EC because it would be even more contrived.
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That's all I can hear after reading this. Talk about lame. Every war would essentially be phony, conducted with permission and with the outcome likely pre-determined by the favor of the Empire. It would be even worse than the Long Peace on EC because it would be even more contrived.
It is also the most self-destructive move the Empire could make. With complete hegemony on the island, no one could challenge their dominance. After having been at constant war for years, they would suddenly be at peace. Their reign would be unchallenged. And we all know what happens in BattleMaster when the battles stop, and those long periods of peace settle in... Before too long the Empire would be a hollow shell of its former glory, keeping things going by mere inertia. Eventually, after a period of years, someone would point out that the Emperor has no clothes, attack, and the Empire would pop like an overfilled balloon.
CE's biggest challenge now is finding some way to keep that from happening. If not, then it's a few years of boring peace for the entire island, then quick, flaming death.
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Will we ever have another continent wide conflict like this one? (this large)
As things currently stand, not unless it's possible for the CE bloc to fracture from within and go to war with itself. Thus your perception of whether something like this could ever happen again depends first on your answer to that question, and after that on unforeseen and inherently unpredictable circumstances that somehow change the status quo and significantly weaken the bloc, like a secession or a mass exodus of players.
Logistically speaking, all credible resistance to the Empire will be broken after this conflict. Outside of the realms that are solidly in the bloc, who would fight the Empire after this? The North will be fractured and weak; without Darka and Eston, there will be no Great Powers in the North. I expect both realms will survive in some fashion, but much reduced in power and influence. In the South, Suville is too weak-willed and distracted by conflicts with its neighbors (disclaimer: so far as I am aware), and besides that they were a very long way from realizing their potential as a Great Power when I was briefly there. Tara alone could have steamrolled what passed for their army with little trouble.
Basically there are only two Great Powers left on Atamara (or rather, that is shortly to be the case), and those are CE and Tara. Barring the aforementioned unforeseen circumstances or them turning on each other, it looks like we're soon to enter a period of prolonged Pax Cagilis with nothing but one-sided gang-bang wars in the future.
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Just a question, is there a reason that Darka is going to be invaded and destroyed? That seems quite arbitrary...
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I think everyone is expecting CE to plow through Darka next, since Eston surrendered. Those two were/are the biggest anti-CE realms around.
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CRUSH MINAS LEON! ::)
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I think everyone is expecting CE to plow through Darka next, since Eston surrendered. Those two were/are the biggest anti-CE realms around.
I'd say Eston is more anti-Eston than it is anti CE..just saying...
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What I'm saying is, what is it about Darka that precludes a peace agreement?
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Perhaps that they were the first Northern realm to declare war on the Cagilan Empire? That they have been one of the Empire's strongest opponents? That the Darkan army was the backbone of the Northern Alliance during the war?
Sure, let's start with those reasons.
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What I'm saying is, what is it about Darka that precludes a peace agreement?
They could probably just demand cession of regions without further war but where is the fun in that? That and I don't see Darka just surrendering even though they already lost. I am sure they will surrender, just not until they have enjoyed their last few battles as a great power of Atamara.
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Or you could give up and save what's left for the future. You'll probably end up stronger for the next war if you don't fight until you completely piss off CE. Just a thought...
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There has still not been a word from CE/Tara sector. Darka would be happy to end war ofcourse. They are now facing forces they cant beat, and Darka hates to lose battles :)
But i guess CE just want to beat the crap outta from Darka, and all Darka can do is to try to resist.
But i guess there is no other option? Move all duchies to Talerium and Eston(if Eston gets the peace)? :D
-Jaune
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If Darka is to fight, we will not go lightly. As a single realm, our military prowess may even surpass CE when both of our armies fight together.
However, I personally believe we should be suing for peace, or should win a battle and THEN sue for peace to deal from a position of relative strength(not that there is anything about our situation that screams we are in control...). Losing Massillion and everything East of Clintoc-Tolhuar-Saler wouldn't be so bad. It would hurt no doubt, but we could agree to it(and more importantly, CE and co. could control it with the noble count they have). Also, returning to a true mercenary way of life wouldn't be so bad either. I mean, CE is the richest realm anyways. It seems to me, from us returning to a mercenary way of life, they would benefit the most. It would be like a safeguard in case any of their puppets turned on them. Also, they would just see people like KK are thrown out the window and that those willing to submit to mercenary ways are instated.
TL;DR:
CE should offer the following:
1. Massillion, Wistir, Tertul, Tintar, Malor are taken from Darka to give to puppet X(maybe if they are making a new puppet out of Eston they could feed them to it). Ixzal gets taken and given to Talerium.
2. KK forced to step down.
3. Forced to return to mercenary values or will be destroyed. Also forced to work for the highest bidder(CE should profit from that).
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You could give Massillion back to Eston, since you kinda stole it from us years ago. :P
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Uzamaki
If Darka were to surrender unconditionally I would be truly taken back by that. KK kicked out or stepping down pssh can't kick out the old drunk... he'd probably be replaced by one of his children. Darka has it's corner and I hope they fight for it. So much rich history and Volcano worshiping. Such a proud nation surrendering in such a way I think is below Darka way way below.
I say fight to the last noble and send your children to the south. Abington (Suville) will rise again! You just have to survive long enough for boat travel to come to AT unless it's hear already.
Btw this empire thing going on in BM uhh I feel like the idea is coming from the Hunger Games... anyone feel that same way?
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You could give Massillion back to Eston, since you kinda stole it from us years ago. :P
Quiet, you!
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Uzamaki
If Darka were to surrender unconditionally I would be truly taken back by that. KK kicked out or stepping down pssh can't kick out the old drunk... he'd probably be replaced by one of his children. Darka has it's corner and I hope they fight for it. So much rich history and Volcano worshiping. Such a proud nation surrendering in such a way I think is below Darka way way below.
I say fight to the last noble and send your children to the south. Abington (Suville) will rise again! You just have to survive long enough for boat travel to come to AT unless it's hear already.
Btw this empire thing going on in BM uhh I feel like the idea is coming from the Hunger Games... anyone feel that same way?
But going back to mercenary ways would be fun! Besides, what's better, going out in a blaze of glory, or preserving this great and awesome realm for the future?
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But going back to mercenary ways would be fun! Besides, what's better, going out in a blaze of glory, or preserving this great and awesome realm for the future?
A mix is best. Your way is just too pathetic for Darka to do IMO.
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Crush Raoul and give the lands of the oath-breakers back to Minas Ithil!
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You could give Massillion back to Eston, since you kinda stole it from us years ago. :P
So much fail in a single sentence.
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A mix is best. Your way is just too pathetic for Darka to do IMO.
And so getting raped is less pathetic?
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And so getting raped is less pathetic?
In a medieval sense, yes. At least you are doing what you can to resist.
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And so getting raped is less pathetic?
I said mix was best. Fight a few major battles at minimum, then consider going for peace. (Darka won't do as bad as people think, IMO.)
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I said mix was best. Fight a few major battles at minimum, then consider going for peace. (Darka won't do as bad as people think, IMO.)
As I said, we are a force to be reckoned with. But there is only one way this ends: a surrender.
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Well, time is this time on our side.
CE's Block has grown very big, if we can resist long enough... other problems might arise. But then again, it also could be that nobody does anything since they have Darka to spank for their free time :P
Ofcourse all Darkans could simply join example Talerium :) Vote KK as PM and things would start to be intresting :P
-Jaune
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If Darka surrender it will be nice to get several region of darka and eston join and form new realm with general of Tara as ruler. Name like Darkstone can be used. Now, will king of eston pack their thing and emigrateto another island?
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If Darka surrender it will be nice to get several region of darka and eston join and form new realm with general of Tara as ruler. Name like Darkstone can be used. Now, will king of eston pack their thing and emigrateto another island?
A new realm with a high ranking Taran as ruler sounds absolutely terrible.
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I wouldnt mind to have Wilhelm Pitkämiekka, Jamuga... or even Ottar as ruler :)
But i do mind get Darkan lands for such realm :)
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Minas Ithil ain't dead yet! 8)
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Well.. Minas Ithil will suffer lack of food and dead within 1or 2 week.. Even Minas Leon do not attack York.
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Well.. Minas Ithil will suffer lack of food and dead within 1or 2 week.. Even Minas Leon do not attack York.
You assume we lack imports.
Trading is a heck of a lot easier nowadays then it used to be. Besieging someone to starve them, not quite as effective.
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Oh Yeah? Good plan king.. Which realm sell food to minas ithil?
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Oh Yeah? Good plan king.. Which realm sell food to minas ithil?
Barony or other greedy rural lords come to mind.
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Or anyone not wanting the war to end quite yet.
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But i like the way the old king plan for long term strategy. from info i get, York also have several rcs (more than 5Rcs) with loyal noble (only one join ML when ML enter york). And several noble that keep looting ML region, i'm sure there will be huge and honourable battle between MI and ML.
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Oh Yeah? Good plan king.. Which realm sell food to minas ithil?
I see no reason whatsoever to reveal this. :P
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Chénier, we both knows that the next time we attack York, you will fall.
The question is, when will we attack York?
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Heh, looking terms what Eston got, future of Atamara looks pretty boring for next year or so... cant wait what nice demands CE will show to Darka at some point.
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Chénier, we both knows that the next time we attack York, you will fall.
The question is, when will we attack York?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dj5qpmYlLMI
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Heh, looking terms what Eston got, future of Atamara looks pretty boring for next year or so... cant wait what nice demands CE will show to Darka at some point.
Yeah. They're pretty much building things for the north to be a bore fest for the next year. And with the way the south is I doubt you'll see much war from there either.
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Anyone care to share? I'm quite curious.
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The Treaty of Hawthorne
I. Preamble
I.a. WHEREAS the Kingdom of Eston has allowed one of its infiltrators to brutally attack the leaders of Coria, Tara, Talerium, and the Cagilan Empire, and then let the perpetrator escape Atamara without punishment.
I.b. WHEREAS King Kerwin of Eston has previously asked for the Duchy of Eaglin during peace negotiations.
I.c. WHEREAS King Kerwin has offered to the Cagilan Empire the UNCONDITIONAL SURRENDER of his realm.
I.d. THEREFORE the Cagilan Empire, on behalf of her allies in this conflict (Talerium, Tara, and Strombran) and herself, offers the following terms of peace to Eston.
II. Exiles
II.a. The Cagilan Empire and her allies hold Royal Justiciar Athena to be primarily responsible for catching and punishing the infiltrator who assaulted our leaders. This is a task that she had promised she would carry out, but she had failed to do so.
II.b. The Cagilan Empire, on behalf of her allies Talerium and Tara, demands that Royal Justiciar Athena immediately resign her positions and titles in Eston, and exile herself from Atamara, never to return. This clause of the treaty must be fulfilled as soon as possible after the signing of the treaty.
II.c. The Cagilan Empire, on behalf of her allies Talerium and Tara, demands that King Kerwin, after fulfilling the terms in section III of this treaty, immediately resign his positions and titles in Eston, and exile himself from Atamara, never to return. The remaining nobles of Eston may then elect a new Ruler of their choosing, but they are still bound by the terms of this treaty.
II.d. This exile will NOT extend to other members of their families.
III. Territory
III.a. Eston will formally, publicly, and permanently release the Duchy of Hawthorne as an independent realm. The new realm will consist of the regions of Hawthorne, Agnilar, Loratil, Slantrax, Saradic, and Melias. Its nobles may choose a realm name other than “Hawthorne” if they wish, provided that it is not profane. Its nobles may choose their Ruler and government system as they wish, but they are still bound by the terms of this treaty.
III.b. Eston will formally, publicly, and permanently cede the region of Nazamroth to Talerium.
III.c. Eston will formally, publicly, and permanently cede the region of Anost to Coria.
III.d. Eston will formally, publicly, and permanently cede to Rieleston the following regions: Ashmoor, Beleground, and Elost.
III.e. Eston will formally, publicly, and permanently cede the region of Nazia to the Cagilan Empire.
III.f. The Cagilan Empire recognizes Eston's continuing claims to the following regions: Dondor, Amdor, Meneriel, and Barad Lacirith.
III.g. Eston has twelve (12) days after the signing of the treaty to fulfill the clauses in this section of the treaty, one day for each region that Eston is being forced to cede.
IV. Diplomacy
IV.a. Eston will break her diplomatic ties with Darka and the Barony of Makar. Eston may not ally with Darka or the Barony of Makar for a period of at least six (6) months.
IV.b. Hawthorne may not ally with Darka or the Barony of Makar for a period of at least six (6) months.
IV.c. Eston and Hawthorne will NOT give military passage rights to Darka or the Barony of Makar, for a period of at least six (6) months.
IV.d. Eston and Hawthorne will adopt a diplomatic status of peace or better with Talerium, Tara, Strombran, Coria, Rieleston, and the Cagilan Empire, for a period of at least nine (9) months.
IV.e. Eston and Hawthorne will give full passage rights to Talerium, Tara, Strombran, Coria, Rieleston, and the Cagilan Empire, for a period of at least nine (9) months.
IV.f. Eston and Hawthorne will NOT be made into vassals or protectorates. After a period of nine (9) months, they are free to change their diplomatic policies as they see fit.
IV.g. If Eston or Hawthorne is attacked without provocation within the next six (6) months, the Cagilan Empire will offer her protection to them, provided that the Cagilan Empire is not already busy aiding an ally.
V. War Reparations
V.a. The Cagilan Empire and her allies do not demand monetary compensation from Eston.
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Eh, I see plenty of scope for future conflicts, just not any within the next six to nine months due to the protection clause. It seems likely to me that Eston's successor realms will end up fighting each other at some point. Plus I am going to put odds on Darka being completely broken up in a similar fashion into at least three realms, possibly BoM as well. That will create a whole mess of small and borderline unsustainable realms in the North that will have lots of incentive to fight each other because a) they will need to expand to make themselves sustainable, and b) they won't be strong enough to take on anyone but each other.
Bottom line: Eston, Rieleston and Hawthorne are unlikely to be involved in any wars for the next 6-9 months unless they choose to join CE and co. in dismantling Darka and BoM (and they certainly could, provided CE allows them to - there are possible territorial incentives to do so). CE and co. meanwhile will almost certainly be busy using the military passage clauses to go ahead and dismantle Darka and BoM.
I think it is almost certain that the North will turn into a hotbed of conflict if CE and friends are wise enough to stay out of the way, since their possible participation in any conflict with the one and two-duchy realms that will be left in the North will serve to discourage those rulers from making war on each other. Now I just wish that Tara and CE's dukes would set up the same situation in the south by seceding en masse ::)
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Eh, I see plenty of scope for future conflicts, just not any within the next six to nine months due to the protection clause. It seems likely to me that Eston's successor realms will end up fighting each other at some point.
You assume the players will happily accept an outside power telling them "you must now be a different realm". I honestly don't think that's going to fly over well at all.
And Darka will never accept terms that go anywhere near what Eston signed.
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Now I just wish that Tara and CE's dukes would set up the same situation in the south by seceding en masse ::)
Every hill a kingdom! Every hollow a realm!
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You assume the players will happily accept an outside power telling them "you must now be a different realm". I honestly don't think that's going to fly over well at all.
And Darka will never accept terms that go anywhere near what Eston signed.
The way I see it, they don't have a choice. I'm certain that most won't be happy about it, but the alternative is that the Empire simply burns everything to the ground and then colonizes the area in whatever configuration it wants. If Eston was prepared to surrender unconditionally, I have to assume that it's because they believed that further resistance was pointless. Which it is, if you're Eston.
As for Darka, they don't have a choice either. They just haven't accepted defeat yet. Who knows, maybe they'll be able to achieve some sort of stalemate, but I have my doubts. When huge swaths of Darka have been devastated and driven rogue and you're clinging to a couple of hungry cities, will you still refuse to surrender? I can tell you from experience that fighting from that position isn't really very much fun even from an OOC standpoint. At that point I'd probably welcome peace and look forward to the opportunities that a new map would offer.
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Yeah, could be that Darka is burnt down, but you wont see KK sign anything silly like that... there will be another king/queen by then.
But still havent heard a word from CE what they want.
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But still havent heard a word from CE what they want.
This one is easy: War.
They want war. You assume they want peace in some fashion. That's simply not true. They just want to fight you, burn you and pillage you without any plans for peace afterwards.
Have fun now folks.
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FWIW, Eston's nobles are already planning to re-unite after the 6 months or whatever.
Which is of course a "realm merger," and explicitly prohibited by BM's rules.
I just didn't want to bust their bubble and tell them that yet.
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FWIW, Eston's nobles are already planning to re-unite after the 6 months or whatever.
Which is of course a "realm merger," and explicitly prohibited by BM's rules.
I just didn't want to bust their bubble and tell them that yet.
Its okay, you can have one side declare war first and "win" the war.
Easy does it.
Frankly, if realm merger's are prohibited, then forced realm splits should also be prohibited.
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Its okay, you can have one side declare war first and "win" the war.
I'm reasonably certain that this would be frowned upon if someone decided to report it. Along the same lines as "friendly" wars.
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I'm reasonably certain that this would be frowned upon if someone decided to report it. Along the same lines as "friendly" wars.
Of course it would, which is why that rule, and this treaty is stupid.
See forum thread here for future discussions on this topic: http://forum.battlemaster.org/index.php/topic,3823.msg93059.html#new (http://forum.battlemaster.org/index.php/topic,3823.msg93059.html#new)
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But still havent heard a word from CE what they want.
Try surrendering unconditionally first.
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Try surrendering unconditionally first.
I got a pic to post here about that but I am afraid I will get banned.
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I got a pic to post here about that but I am afraid I will get banned.
Ha. You can PM it to me if you want ;)
Edit: He did, and I laughed.
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Ha. You can PM it to me if you want ;)
Edit: He did, and I laughed.
Sent
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And Darka will never accept terms that go anywhere near what Eston signed.
Darka will, I think.
Eston certainly had no intention of surrendering really until the last few weeks there. It just became pointless. The stalemate was broken, a duchy had seceded (and was collaborating with the enemy), and we could no longer field armies of significance. Darkan and BoM armies were no where to be found, and probably wouldn't have been able to help anyways, what with 2/3 of the island in a constant rotation sitting in Eston.
Sure, we could have slogged it out for a while longer. But all that would have done was ensure that Eston as realm truly was destroyed. The end result would have been similar, but probably without an actual Eston around any longer and with nobles ending up more scattered, etc.
The war had dragged on for so damn long, it was just time to throw in the towel one they were, ya know, TOing regions adjacent to our capital.
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Darka will, I think.
Eston certainly had no intention of surrendering really until the last few weeks there. It just became pointless. The stalemate was broken, a duchy had seceded (and was collaborating with the enemy), and we could no longer field armies of significance. Darkan and BoM armies were no where to be found, and probably wouldn't have been able to help anyways, what with 2/3 of the island in a constant rotation sitting in Eston.
Sure, we could have slogged it out for a while longer. But all that would have done was ensure that Eston as realm truly was destroyed. The end result would have been similar, but probably without an actual Eston around any longer and with nobles ending up more scattered, etc.
The war had dragged on for so damn long, it was just time to throw in the towel one they were, ya know, TOing regions adjacent to our capital.
That pretty neatly sums up why Hammarsett surrendered.
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Darka will, I think.
Dunno, from the outside it looks like internal problems killed Eston, not CE. From the outside it has often looked like Eston was filled with internal strife all through the war.
Darka on the other hands has been very stable internally for a long time. If the king says we fight until we die then that's probably what will happen. The dukes are loyal and over all I'd say we see death of Darka as a better option than signing the sort of terms Eston did.
If we die we'll just take our gold and go take over Talerium or some other place that votes often :D
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Dunno, from the outside it looks like internal problems killed Eston, not CE. From the outside it has often looked like Eston was filled with internal strife all through the war.
It certainly did, and that was certainly the case. However, the strife never had anything to do with "surrender" or "don't surrender." The Rieleston secession certainly hurt Eston and its ability to fight the war, a lot. However, even if Barad Riel had stayed with Eston, the result wouldn't have altered much. It was only a matter of time before Eston could no longer hold the stalemate, as we have now seen. Especially once Darka started telling Eston they could only commit 10k CS to defend Eston.
Darka on the other hands has been very stable internally for a long time. If the king says we fight until we die then that's probably what will happen. The dukes are loyal and over all I'd say we see death of Darka as a better option than signing the sort of terms Eston did.
This is probably because Darka has never been under any threat or pressure in a long time. There's no catalyst for internal conflict. It is no coincidence that the biggest instance of internal strife in Eston in several years came during the tail end of this war that it was becoming more and more apparent would end badly for Eston. External conflict breeds internal conflict.
That being said, Darka is pretty gung-ho about themselves and are pretty convinced their military is as best as it gets. So you're probably right, they might slug it out til the end. And good for them, I hope they make it miserable for CE & Co.
If we die we'll just take our gold and go take over Talerium or some other place that votes often :D
Show up in CE. Elect KK the new Prime Minister. This has been the ultimate scheme of the Northern Alliance all along!
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I'm certain that most won't be happy about it, but the alternative is that the Empire simply burns everything to the ground and then colonizes the area in whatever configuration it want
I cant speak for everyone, or any of the Darkans, but I'd like to think there are more than a few Makarians who would prefer that to surrendering and submitted to Cagilan. I know Ender would rather die then let anyone tell him what he does with his own city.
We're a feisty group up north.
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Especially once Darka started telling Eston they could only commit 10k CS to defend Eston.
Which is what I don't understand. If you look at Darka fighting now, they are hosting ~40k CS (from CE point of view), which would definitely make a difference if Darka committed that force when Eston was around. It's Darkan fault Eston fell...
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Darka committed more than 10K CS so I don't know where that number is coming from. We have our homeland army(mostly courtiers and inner region lords) not go out to defend Eston, but my army, our non-homeland army, the Royal Army of Darka, did go out to help Eston. We weren't pulling out all the stops so it was much less then what we are using now, but it was still twice that of which you were talking about.
And even if we had brought 30K CS such as my army has now, I am not sure if it would have matter. Eston's army was in shambles, we didn't receive communications from their General for days and when we did it was just to sit around and wait. On top of that, as Perth said, the stalemate had been broken, so it would have been like trying to plug holes in a rapidly sinking ship.
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Which is what I don't understand. If you look at Darka fighting now, they are hosting ~40k CS (from CE point of view), which would definitely make a difference if Darka committed that force when Eston was around.
There are many reasons that simply was not possible. Darka started this war marching with nearly 30K CS. Once all the diplomatic crap hit the fan, and we started marching across the island again, and it became obvious the Empire was going to win, we started losing nobles, and nobles stopped marching with the army. We were reduced to 15K or so that actually was willing to march.
It's Darkan fault Eston fell...
Well, that's not just a little biased, eh? Why don't you blame the Barony for bringing 5k and 6k, instead of the 12K or more they are marching now? Or blame the Empire for marching with even stronger forces than they used to bring? Or, how about blaming the complete charlie foxtrot that the Northern military coordination has been for most of the war?
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I still don't get why Darka is being targeted so much more vehemently than Eston...
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O I hope Darka slugs it out!
If they accepted some sort of surrender like Eston well
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Why don't you blame the Barony for bringing 5k and 6k, instead of the 12K or more they are marching now?
War looks far more threatening when you fight it in your own lands. I don't only blame Darka, but it just weird to see 40kCS righ now from Darka alone, and not during the stalemate. No way CE&co would have been able to break 60+kCS of Darka+Eston wall. Barony was always bad in terms of military. They care more of RPing drunken nobles (which is fine), so at least their military reflected their RP :)
This whole situation reminds me of fall of Tucha during Falasan war. CE had to pull all of its allies to sack the city: Talerium, Tara, Carelia, Caergoth and Suville (?) Refit times of Suville, Strombran and Caergoth are simply not feasible in this war against the north.
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War looks far more threatening when you fight it in your own lands. I don't only blame Darka, but it just weird to see 40kCS righ now from Darka alone, and not during the stalemate. No way CE&co would have been able to break 60+kCS of Darka+Eston wall. Barony was always bad in terms of military. They care more of RPing drunken nobles (which is fine), so at least their military reflected their RP :)
This whole situation reminds me of fall of Tucha during Falasan war. CE had to pull all of its allies to sack the city: Talerium, Tara, Carelia, Caergoth and Suville (?) Refit times of Suville, Strombran and Caergoth are simply not feasible in this war against the north.
5 reasons for the Darkan CS surge:
1. We are dipping into our vast treasury to give everyone big units.
2. We can field bigger units when we are always a day, maybe two from one of our own cities and do not have to depend on another realm to coordinate attack times and refit times. You can cash bonds easier.
3. We have gained nobles, and since many of our regions needed new nobles anyways, we are also gaining a more efficient regional economy.
4. Everyone fights harder at home than away.
5. I personally can say that I have been working harder, and the Military as well been working harder, since we are the one being threatened. You can say this is wrong, but that is just the way it is. We are communicating better, sending out Orders more regularly, and coming up with different tactics every turn.
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I can confirm by looking at statistics, about 2 weeks ago Darka gained ~ a dozen nobles or so within 1 week period. Curious :)
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Which is what I don't understand. If you look at Darka fighting now, they are hosting ~40k CS (from CE point of view), which would definitely make a difference if Darka committed that force when Eston was around. It's Darkan fault Eston fell...
Well aren't you a little whiny little kid? It's Estons fault Eston fell since you were retarded. You tried to ally with Coria (and probably got stabbed in the back for that), Darka always brought more army into your lands than you did and last I heard your General resigned because he did not like how the King was dealing with the whole situation.
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I can confirm by looking at statistics, about 2 weeks ago Darka gained ~ a dozen nobles or so within 1 week period. Curious :)
It's mostly people from Eston leaving Eston and joining Darka to carry on the fight.
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Well aren't you a little whiny little kid? It's Estons fault Eston fell since you were retarded. You tried to ally with Coria (and probably got stabbed in the back for that), Darka always brought more army into your lands than you did and last I heard your General resigned because he did not like how the King was dealing with the whole situation.
lol, you silly, I'm with CE :D, and I'm not whining, I'm winning
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lol, you silly, I'm with CE :D, and I'm not whining, I'm winning
Saw that today.
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Saw that today.
lol, you are hilarious!
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I can confirm by looking at statistics, about 2 weeks ago Darka gained ~ a dozen nobles or so within 1 week period. Curious :)
They sent out a call across most of the continent.
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Why don't you blame the Barony for bringing 5k and 6k, instead of the 12K or more they are marching now?
And the blame is definitely (in part) ours. Some new and old nobles getting vocal again seems to have brought up the energy level again. I just hope it all marches out again after all this waiting for impending doom.
I will also attest to Darka bringing at least 30k CS to Coria on several occasions. That's partially why we needed the CE's help on top of Tara's.
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last I heard your General resigned because he did not like how the King was dealing with the whole situation.
That is false. Luka (the General) and Kealan (former Duke of Hawthorne) Emarana were two of Kerwin's most loyal supporters. Vehemently pro-Eston, pro-Monarch. The player quit really without much explanation, other than he had been playing for almost 7 years and realized he was finally burnt out and seeing CE win out over Eston was just to much for him and realized he needed to step away from the game.
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A question for those who may know: any insight on why the decision was made to completely exile Kerwin from Atamara? When I found out it was going to happen I was honestly a little surprised, I hadn't realized Kerwin had so offended anyone.
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A question for those who may know: any insight on why the decision was made to completely exile Kerwin from Atamara? When I found out it was going to happen I was honestly a little surprised, I hadn't realized Kerwin had so offended anyone.
It was requested some time ago by Talerium and Tara when we were developing terms before your surrender. (I don't know why those terms took so long and did not seem to hasten the terms when you actually did surrender.) After the terms that DID go out were sent, Talerium did go back on their demand saying they'd made some mistake. I think they did a history check and realized they were exiling the wrong man. Tara has been bitter with you for a while, but I couldn't list a specific reason. I vaguely recall Ottar saying he was angry you executed a Taran (infil, I think)... But that was waaaaaaaaaaay long ago when Coria was looking to do something with the North.
I mean, if we weren't buddies, I'd be telling these guys to go after you for not removing Athena after you did get elected. Another good point would be some of the terms during the stalemate portion of the war; they were kind of insulting since you hadn't really threatened the duchy you were throwing into the terms. Maybe it's not big enough for a continental exile, but it would be worth removing you as King.
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After the terms that DID go out were sent, Talerium did go back on their demand saying they'd made some mistake. I think they did a history check and realized they were exiling the wrong man.
This certainly happened. The first version of the treaty listed Kerwin as the King during that infil debacle with Coria, etc. Which simply wasn't true. Kerwin was outraged and that was why he demanded they be rewritten after they were presented to him, because it was simply false. Jean Alain de Bardt was King during that and ended up resigning over it, Kerwin was elected after him.
I won't go into how ridiculous it is that Talerium would demand anything because of an infiltrator. They were the most prolific users of infils on the whole continent. I can't even count how many times Talerium infils stabbed Eston nobles in the early part of the war.
Tara has been bitter with you for a while, but I couldn't list a specific reason. I vaguely recall Ottar saying he was angry you executed a Taran (infil, I think)... But that was waaaaaaaaaaay long ago when Coria was looking to do something with the North.
Ottar mentioned this I think (hard to tell, he is never really coherent) when I tried to ask him about it, but when I told him I honestly did not remember that ever happened and asked him to name who the noble was he stopped responding altogether. I honestly think it's bullcrap. I know I never gave the order, especially for a Taran noble, maybe a Talerian one.
I mean, if we weren't buddies, I'd be telling these guys to go after you for not removing Athena after you did get elected. Another good point would be some of the terms during the stalemate portion of the war; they were kind of insulting since you hadn't really threatened the duchy you were throwing into the terms. Maybe it's not big enough for a continental exile, but it would be worth removing you as King.
I guesso. I didn't have the power to remove her though, or I honeslty would have. Kerwin's been trying to get rid of her his entire reign, as she's been a political opposition to him. She's the Judge and Duke of the capital city though, so he's been powerless to do so.
Also, I can understood the step down as King. I was half expecting that. It was the exile from Atamara that caught me off guard and also really bummed me out to be honest. Kerwin was my first character when I joined the game and always been in Eston on Atamara. I don't wanna leave the island.
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I guesso. I didn't have the power to remove her though, or I honeslty would have. Kerwin's been trying to get rid of her his entire reign, as she's been a political opposition to him. She's the Judge and Duke of the capital city though, so he's been powerless to do so.
I know it's a horrible mechanic to use since it almost always backfires, but you could have tried an exile. I'm not sure when since you were at war for so long and had those internal issues...
Also, I can understood the step down as King. I was half expecting that. It was the exile from Atamara that caught me off guard and also really bummed me out to be honest. Kerwin was my first character when I joined the game and always been in Eston on Atamara. I don't wanna leave the island.
Then don't. ;D We could use some drama on Atamara. See if you can take refuge in BoM, Darka or even down south in Carelia. They've got a few nobles the CE considers war criminals, what's one more?
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I know it's a horrible mechanic to use since it almost always backfires, but you could have tried an exile. I'm not sure when since you were at war for so long and had those internal issues...
Though about it. The last King of Eston who tried that ended up having to resign cause he lost all his H/P.
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This is probably because Darka has never been under any threat or pressure in a long time. There's no catalyst for internal conflict. It is no coincidence that the biggest instance of internal strife in Eston in several years came during the tail end of this war that it was becoming more and more apparent would end badly for Eston. External conflict breeds internal conflict.
That being said, Darka is pretty gung-ho about themselves and are pretty convinced their military is as best as it gets. So you're probably right, they might slug it out til the end. And good for them, I hope they make it miserable for CE & Co.!
Darka has a strong core and the key positions if you wish are held by loyal Darkans that would prefer to see Darka burn than surrender.
We lost impatient and not that devoted Darkans in the beginning of this war due to boredom and the rest stayed.But the core of Darka is based on players that are in the realm for 4 years or even more each.
I would bet my hand KK won't surrender and i would bet the same for all the Dukes and that is all it takes.
If this war turns entirely against us then Darka will make the last stand. Bet on it. :)
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Heh, time will show. If we run out of gold or regions or recruits or nobles or what ever... or KK gets protested out or smthng... But one thing is for sure, KK would not sign anything silly like that.
What surprises me mostly is the "hatred" how CE & Tara is jumping on Darka... Especially Tara.
Another great surprise is Talerium troops joining the attack. I guess Eston was right, should have stormed against Talerium when we had a chanche... but i hope this is just cause Talerium doesnt recognize Agnilar as Darkan lands.
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Another great surprise is Talerium troops joining the attack. I guess Eston was right, should have stormed against Talerium when we had a chanche... but i hope this is just cause Talerium doesnt recognize Agnilar as Darkan lands.
Wouldn't be surprised to see Talerium gain some land from Darka when its all over.
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Heh, time will show. If we run out of gold or regions or recruits or nobles or what ever... or KK gets protested out or smthng... But one thing is for sure, KK would not sign anything silly like that.
What surprises me mostly is the "hatred" how CE & Tara is jumping on Darka... Especially Tara.
Another great surprise is Talerium troops joining the attack. I guess Eston was right, should have stormed against Talerium when we had a chanche... but i hope this is just cause Talerium doesnt recognize Agnilar as Darkan lands.
And I hope they stab you in the back like you deserve.
Sorry. I'm really enjoying the schadenfreude here. Darka and Eston deserve everything they get, IMO.
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And I hope they stab you in the back like you deserve.
Sorry. I'm really enjoying the schadenfreude here. Darka and Eston deserve everything they get, IMO.
I'm not sure I agree fully with that, but I certainly think Darka's getting what it deserves for putting Talerium on a pedestal all these years.
Seriously, guys, did you really think they were your friends? I haven't even been on Atamara in years, and I could have told you that when push came to shove, they'd stab you in the back and laugh as you rot.
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I'm not sure I agree fully with that, but I certainly think Darka's getting what it deserves for putting Talerium on a pedestal all these years.
Seriously, guys, did you really think they were your friends? I haven't even been on Atamara in years, and I could have told you that when push came to shove, they'd stab you in the back and laugh as you rot.
They actually still haven't broken the most substantial part of the border treaty, so it still remains intact and we haven't necessarily been betrayed.
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Talerium is, actually, using the same tactic that Darka used: holding to the borders of the realms that existed at the start of the war. Agnilar was not Darkan at the start of the war, so they assert their right to fight there. It still remains to be seen whether or not they will continue to hold to that. However, ther is no reason to suspect they will not.
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Yeah, mainly what makes me sad panda is that they actually WANT to fight us at Agnilar, even thought they arent basicly anymore war with Eston. And as far as i know, they dont have any claims to Agnilar, infact nobody has not said anything that they want Agnilar... CE people babbling something about Hawthorne... I hope Hawthrone will join Darka as well :P Then all is well i guess :)
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They actually still haven't broken the most substantial part of the border treaty, so it still remains intact and we haven't necessarily been betrayed.
You sound like someone trying to rationalize abuse. Just saying. 8)
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Perth: just do what Cyrilos told you, and you can stay on Atamara. You know it's true!
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And I hope they stab you in the back like you deserve.
Sorry. I'm really enjoying the schadenfreude here. Darka and Eston deserve everything they get, IMO.
Why exactly do we deserve that?
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Why exactly do we deserve that?
Because I'm bitter, that's why. ;D You couldn't tell?
Short story: I was always convinced that Darka's complete refusal to directly attack Talerium was, at best, short-sighted and self-serving, and I count it to be one of several major reasons why the North lost the war. You can quibble with that assertion if you want, but that's why.
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North lost because we all sucked donkey balls.
If all would start from beginning, i would still keep treaty with Talerium, but would put pretty harsh demands to other realms who are with us on this war what to do. There was too much soloing all the time, at diplomacy and at military actions... while our enemy worked united whole time. Thats why north lost the war.... time will show if Darka will lose too... but we will do our best to make it cost helluwa lot for CE & Tara.
-Jaune
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Perth: just do what Cyrilos told you, and you can stay on Atamara. You know it's true!
But commandeering Merlin Silverfire's body via Cyrilos' dark magic is just a little weird for me still!
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North lost because we all sucked donkey balls.
If all would start from beginning, i would still keep treaty with Talerium, but would put pretty harsh demands to other realms who are with us on this war what to do. There was too much soloing all the time, at diplomacy and at military actions... while our enemy worked united whole time. Thats why north lost the war.... time will show if Darka will lose too... but we will do our best to make it cost helluwa lot for CE & Tara.
-Jaune
What sort of demands? I'm always curious as to what other people think we could have done. However, I'm not sure how you can revisit other people's decisions and not at the same time revisit your own.
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I would have told that Darka would lead northern armies and whole coalition diplomacy. Nobody should have talked anybody outside the coalition without going through me.
Carelia would have had total control over southern armies and diplomacy as well. If these requirments were not accepted, Darka would have sitout... and i bet this war would not then had happened.... but i had not realized how bad relations southeners had and i had no clue that Kerwin was boy toy of Silverfire.
-Jaune
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and i had no clue that Kerwin was boy toy of Silverfire.
-Jaune
And I had no clue KK was boy toy of Captain. ;)
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And I had no clue KK was boy toy of Captain. ;)
To be fair, his love affair with Captain has lasted much longer than yours with Silverfire. Border treaty has been around for ages.
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Heh, you are forgetting that Darka defended Eston against Darkan own ally... and thats the thing which pissed KK off so much when you suddenly hugged Coria and even put their needs above Darkan needs... So, basicly Captain could say that KK is boytoy of Kerwin :P
-Jaune
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To be fair, his love affair with Captain has lasted much longer than yours with Silverfire. Border treaty has been around for ages.
I prefer to call it "the border travesty."
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I prefer to call it "the border travesty."
Eh, I am not a huge fan of it, but it does make some sense. I just would have rather placed a Darkan child in Cameland and then hit CE.
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But commandeering Merlin Silverfire's body via Cyrilos' dark magic is just a little weird for me still!
i had no clue that Kerwin was boy toy of Silverfire.
-Jaune
To be fair, his love affair with Captain has lasted much longer than yours with Silverfire. Border treaty has been around for ages.
Woah, woah, woah, what?
I am so confused. Kerwin isn't Merlin's boy toy. My character has never met the guy. My character doesn't even talk to people, he's illiterate and sits in his palace watching dancing girls every day, oblivious to the outside world.
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Yeah, mainly what makes me sad panda is that they actually WANT to fight us at Agnilar, even thought they arent basicly anymore war with Eston. And as far as i know, they dont have any claims to Agnilar, infact nobody has not said anything that they want Agnilar... CE people babbling something about Hawthorne... I hope Hawthrone will join Darka as well :P Then all is well i guess :)
I'm not sure if Eston shared their surrender conditions with the world (it was posted somewhere on the forums), but it was an agreement between CE, Talerium and others. Agnilar is part of that agreement. It's Talerium job, as well as the rest of Eagle's allies to enforce it. Talerium does not recognize Agnilar a Darkan territory (I'm not even sure if it recognizes Massilion duchy as well, you'd have to ask them in person), so they have to attack Darka to enforce a treaty with Eston. Right now Darka is the aggressor towards this treaty, which is fine. Just don't be surprised to see Talerium in Agnilar.
There are other plans for Hawthorne. If Duchy joins Darka, expect to see Talerians go after you.
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Eh, I am not a huge fan of it, but it does make some sense. I just would have rather placed a Darkan child in Cameland and then hit CE.
Yes, it makes sense when the goal is to cover your own ass. When it doesn't make sense is after you declare total war on the Cagilan Empire in an all or nothing bid to finally break their stranglehold on Atamara, then immediately tie one hand behind your own back by reaffirming a treaty that forces you to march days out of your way to even get to the Cagilan Empire while leaving another major enemy combatant in a virtually unassailable position.
Sorry, bitterness coming through again. Seriously though, the way I look at it is that Darka started a fight that was going to be all or nothing and then chose to voluntarily limit what they could do to win. That is probably the worst way to enter a war that I can think of...
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Yes, it makes sense when the goal is to cover your own ass. When it doesn't make sense is after you declare total war on the Cagilan Empire in an all or nothing bid to finally break their stranglehold on Atamara, then immediately tie one hand behind your own back by reaffirming a treaty that forces you to march days out of your way to even get to the Cagilan Empire while leaving another major enemy combatant in a virtually unassailable position.
Sorry, bitterness coming through again. Seriously though, the way I look at it is that Darka started a fight that was going to be all or nothing and then chose to voluntarily limit what they could do to win. That is probably the worst way to enter a war that I can think of...
Should have gotten Talerium to join the north. Then no problem.
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Should have gotten Talerium to join the north. Then no problem.
Yeah, and if I crapped gold I would be a rich man. 8)
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Yeah, and if I crapped gold I would be a rich man. 8)
No, you'd be dead.
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No, you'd be dead.
No, he'd be a rich, dead man with a spoiled son who would inherit said wealth and waste it on decadent pleasures...
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So... Looks like this will be a good war with Darka winning the first two battles.
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So... Looks like this will be a good war with Darka winning the first two battles.
Japan won Pearl Harbor.
Germany won the French Blitzkrieg.
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Japan won Pearl Harbor.
Germany won the French Blitzkrieg.
And they weren't over in two weeks either among other differences. My point is not that Darka will win but that they are close enough that it can last awhile.
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And they weren't over in two weeks either among other differences. My point is not that Darka will win but that they are close enough that it can last awhile.
Oh, no doubt. I have maintained that as long as the Talerium border treaty holds fast, so will Darka. And it is about as hard to change a Tezokian's mind as anything else in this world.
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Oh, no doubt. I have maintained that as long as the Talerium border treaty holds fast, so will Darka. And it is about as hard to change a Tezokian's mind as anything else in this world.
I didn't realize it was so hard... Should I be proud I've succeeded a couple times, then?
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For now Hawthorne is still duchy of Eston, and Eston is allied with Darka... nobody, i mean nobody has not claimed Agnilar back. Its lord decided to join Darka, which ofcourse suited Darka well, cause Agnilar was running out of food and we had easier time to keep it supplied.
But indeed, this is starting to show Darkans that they are far behind on lines of friends of Talerium after all... and how deep Talerium is in that alliance. When all this started, Tara said they will be only defending CE... that was pretty fast thrown out of window and they joined for attacks... Talerium said they are only war with Eston and had only claims for Eston to get riddoff their judge. Darka informed that it will defend Eston against gangbang what was about to happen(CE & Coria were saying that they will join), when CE told us that if we do that, they will attack us... At that point, Talerium seemed to understand our stance. And we declared war to CE along with several other realms.
At beginning, CE asked few times what Darka wants to stop war efforts, i replied Darka wants CE's power reduced, so that realms could make their own decisions without being bullied by CE and her allies. Those talks ended there. Later Coria tried to hire Darka, but when i told it is not possible to hire us against Eston or Talerium, those talks ended there as well.
But if Taleriums reason to attack Darka is only because of Agnilar, i guess that will be solved soon... but still it shows how little Talerium have power over their own... and it shows how huge influence CE has over Atamara. Basicly there is nobody, i mean nobody who could do any move diplomaticallly or military moves without taking serious consideration what CE thinks about it... And it is getting worse.
I wont mind to play till the end, cause i dont care to play on Atamara for year or 2 after this war, it is already clear that there aint enough political will, or military strenght to challenge this powerblock. Atleast we tried :)
-jaune
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Sure we did, but in the end is the own player's fault.
Sorry to jump in this late, have been busy lately and kicked my boss out his own notebook to comment. But i have to say it once and to everyone to read, the Empire is strong because their opponents sympathize with them and in the end betray their own Realms.
Numbers are simple and they do not lie, CE doesn't have the players to take over the continent, but then they use the same realm they fight and form a new realm, and the worst part is that this new puppet realm is made by those who were fighting them, and they keep repeating it over and over. I have seen it in all continents, realm’s secessions side with the enemy to stay on power, but they become a puppet afterwards.
Look to Minas Ithil and now Eston, they got secession who quickly fought against them, HELL!…. the same realm fighting themselves! To weaken a strong Empire is easy; history has proved it, if the enemy wants to conquer and form a puppet realm, let them use their own nobles.
Take Strombran for example, how many Carelians you think joined Strombran……NONE! The Empire had to send 15 of their nobles south to take care of this land; that is the way to get an Empire weak. You can’t conquer Atamara with just 150 characters (CE+Tara+Tallerium).
For Atamara is already too late, many players love to join the winning side, instead of letting them enjoy the victory and land while you arm yourself. Every realm on atamara
Well i must depart to work, see you around.
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For Atamara is already too late, many players love to join the winning side, instead of letting them enjoy the victory and land while you arm yourself.
But once everyone wins, the winners fight amongst themselves.
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Yeah, that didn't work so well on EC...
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It's never worked on AT either.
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Yeah, that didn't work so well on EC...
There has been a cooldown period for many reasons... A lot of it due to players in power being pussies and preferring titles over fun.
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There has been a cooldown period for many reasons... A lot of it due to players in power being pussies and preferring titles over fun.
You described most players imho.
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You described most players imho.
Then don't vote for them. Or kick them out. Easy to do.
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Then don't vote for them. Or kick them out. Easy to do.
Hard, 95% of the players are those players.
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Then don't vote for them. Or kick them out. Easy to do.
Are we really going to have to go through this again?
No, it is not "easy" to do. You need to have significant popular support, not just behind the idea that war/fun is more important than people keeping their titles, but behind actually kicking out the people in charge who are affected by that view.
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There has been a cooldown period for many reasons... A lot of it due to players in power being pussies and preferring titles over fun.
The current peace is not the first time this has happened. It is also not what I'm talking about.
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This has strayed from the topic, so I will not continue, but I will say a lot of people make it seem a whole lot harder than it is and overcomplicates the possibility of putting people in power who will be fun rulers, not necessarily war rulers, but fun rulers nonetheless.
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This has strayed from the topic, so I will not continue, but I will say a lot of people make it seem a whole lot harder than it is and overcomplicates the possibility of putting people in power who will be fun rulers, not necessarily war rulers, but fun rulers nonetheless.
EC demonstrated the difficulty of provoking change on a static island with the Year of Peace. Ending that required one of the only lightning storms ever.
It's not that we "make it seem harder", it's that it really is that hard.
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95% of players wants power, who cares about 5%? 5% is the loud minority here, unfortunately.
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can we not make a kind of invasion like the huns did with the Roman Empire? just add some mechanics and new codes to give nobles the chance to become tribes which can not hold land. they could recruit in what ever region and these troops are free from weakly payments and cheap to recruit but very weak. They will loot the entire Island and when it is all destroyed the tribe has nothing to feed on so realms will rise again and we got the circle running. We only need to give the tribe member a regular fee like adventures have 2-4 gold a weak?
We need to find a way to make the Island destroy there most powerful and rich realms to give the small ones a chance to grow and to be destroyed when it is there turn.
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95% of players wants power, who cares about 5%? 5% is the loud minority here, unfortunately.
This is the worst made up statistic ever.
Here's a more realistic outlook:
75% of players just want to play the game as a knight or a lord and fight other realms. 25% of the players care about progressing and being power hungry. 90% of those 25% just want to keep the power and not do anything for the fun of the other 75% once they get it. Its the 5% of the 25% that will make things more fun.
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This is the worst made up statistic ever.
Here's a more realistic outlook:
75% of players just want to play the game as a knight or a lord and fight other realms. 25% of the players care about progressing and being power hungry. 90% of those 25% just want to keep the power and not do anything for the fun of the other 75% once they get it. Its the 5% of the 25% that will make things more fun.
To be fair, its an extremely flawed idea that letting the big guy win will just result in infighting because of the same reason now, it will still end being gangbangs unless you spend a lot of time on diplomacy which means peace for awhile. Medieval nobles weren't just like !@#$ the realm and all the power I hold, let's go attack a realm that will result in the destruction of my realm.
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To be fair, its an extremely flawed idea that letting the big guy win will just result in infighting because of the same reason now, it will still end being gangbangs unless you spend a lot of time on diplomacy which means peace for awhile. Medieval nobles weren't just like !@#$ the realm and all the power I hold, let's go attack a realm that will result in the destruction of my realm.
You're right, they made up reasons to go fight other nations, or fought wistfully in the name of religion, or because so and so insulted your cousin, and didn't marry your sister the Queen of the other nation.
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You're right, they made up reasons to go fight other nations, or fought wistfully in the name of religion, or because so and so insulted your cousin, and didn't marry your sister the Queen of the other nation.
But they didn't fight suicides either. I could be wrong but I am pretty sure random little nations didn't go !@#$ with the HRE. They might have fought a plenty but they weren't idiots about it, AFAIK.
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But they didn't fight suicides either. I could be wrong but I am pretty sure random little nations didn't go !@#$ with the HRE. They might have fought a plenty but they weren't idiots about it, AFAIK.
There is a difference between the city state of Venice not declaring war on the HRE, and France not going to war with England because it wasn't a "sure thing."
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There is a difference between the city state of Venice not declaring war on the HRE, and France not going to war with England because it wasn't a "sure thing."
I am referring to people's idea that letting CE win is the best idea for more conflict, not rulers not going to war in general.
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This is the worst made up statistic ever.
Here's a more realistic outlook:
75% of players just want to play the game as a knight or a lord and fight other realms. 25% of the players care about progressing and being power hungry. 90% of those 25% just want to keep the power and not do anything for the fun of the other 75% once they get it. Its the 5% of the 25% that will make things more fun.
THE 1%!!!!!!
They've been called job-creators and fat cats... but now we know... they're FUN-CREATORS!
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THE 1%!!!!!!
They've been called job-creators and fat cats... but now we know... they're FUN-CREATORS!
And right now we occupy Boring Street...
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Take Strombran for example, how many Carelians you think joined Strombran……NONE! The Empire had to send 15 of their nobles south to take care of this land; that is the way to get an Empire weak. You can’t conquer Atamara with just 150 characters (CE+Tara+Tallerium).
2011-05-07 Dielo Joined the realm of Carelia
2012-08-08 Dielo Joined the realm of Strombran.
2011-05-13 Guimoiun Joined the realm of Carelia
2012-02-01 Guimoiun Joined the realm of Strombran
2010-12-24 James Stuart Began his career in Carelia.
2012-03-17 James Stuart Joined the realm of Strombran
You know that we can look at family histories, right? ???
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2011-05-07 Dielo Joined the realm of Carelia
2012-08-08 Dielo Joined the realm of Strombran.
2011-05-13 Guimoiun Joined the realm of Carelia
2012-02-01 Guimoiun Joined the realm of Strombran
2010-12-24 James Stuart Began his career in Carelia.
2012-03-17 James Stuart Joined the realm of Strombran
You know that we can look at family histories, right? ???
Shhhh. 3 is the same thing as none in Battlemaster.
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2011-05-07 Dielo Joined the realm of Carelia
2012-08-08 Dielo Joined the realm of Strombran.
Dielo doesn't count! :D he is a goat lover! it is weird already that he joined Carelia :D
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2011-05-07 Dielo Joined the realm of Carelia
2012-08-08 Dielo Joined the realm of Strombran.
2011-05-13 Guimoiun Joined the realm of Carelia
2012-02-01 Guimoiun Joined the realm of Strombran
2010-12-24 James Stuart Began his career in Carelia.
2012-03-17 James Stuart Joined the realm of Strombran
You know that we can look at family histories, right? ???
Please Spare me the Drama:
Dielo was asked to be banned by the treaty with the Empire, he joined Strombran because they wanted nobles, his young brother Jovyl stayed on Carelia, the other names doesnt know them must have been some one's alt to spy during the war, that happends a lot, so smart search doesnt work on this.
I was refering to CORE realm members turning their backs to their own realm, not one of two new players/spy who seek fun battles.
Ohh look:
James Stuart 33 years Honor: 6 prestige: 17 Knight
An idle character
Guimoiun Zhuravlev - Atamara - Strombran - Courtier/Diplomat - Chancellor of the Interior, Viscount
Alexander Zhuravlev - Atamara - Cagilan Empire - Warrior/Cavalier - Viscount
................. :-\
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the other names doesnt know them must have been some one's alt to spy during the war, that happends a lot, so smart search doesnt work on this.
You should take a step back and rethink what you just said.
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Not quoting anyone because several people have made good points. The key to fun is team play. The duchy is the most immediate unit. Then the realm. Then everyone else. That is the secret to fun in BattleMaster. For everyone.
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Guimoiun left because he was selfish and wanted to keep his region or something like that.
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Not quoting anyone because several people have made good points. The key to fun is team play. The duchy is the most immediate unit. Then the realm. Then everyone else. That is the secret to fun in BattleMaster. For everyone.
Wouldn't a region be the most immediate unit? Most are too small to make a difference by themselves, but I've also seen small, unimportant regions become a thorn in a realm's side.
Just nitpicking. Your overall idea is right, imo.
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Wouldn't a region be the most immediate unit? Most are too small to make a difference by themselves, but I've also seen small, unimportant regions become a thorn in a realm's side.
Just nitpicking. Your overall idea is right, imo.
A region is almost never big enough to be a meaningful team.
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I'll take "Logical Fallacies" for $200, Alex.
I was refering to CORE realm members turning their backs to their own realm, not one of two new players/spy who seek fun battles.
Hmm. What is the No True Scotsman Fallacy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman)?
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I'll take "Logical Fallacies" for $200, Alex.
Hmm. What is the No True Scotsman Fallacy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman)?
That is correct! That's $200 more for GoldPanda– he's on a roll tonight, ladies and gentlemen.
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I'll take "Logical Fallacies" for $200, Alex.
Hmm. What is the No True Scotsman Fallacy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman)?
While it is indeed a No True Scotsman, you have to admit there's a certain truth to it. There are nobles in every realm that are in the realm, but if you mentioned the name to most of the realm they'd go "Oh. Him. Yes, I...suppose he's in the realm, but..."
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While it is indeed a No True Scotsman, you have to admit there's a certain truth to it. There are nobles in every realm that are in the realm, but if you mentioned the name to most of the realm they'd go "Oh. Him. Yes, I...suppose he's in the realm, but..."
Yeah, happens in RL too.
Because people love to form in-groups and out-groups based on their own perceptions of who they like.
"He's in Carelia... but he doesn't sing the Carelian national anthem in his messages... so he's not REALLY from Carelia."
"He's in Carelia... but he has a character in Suville too... so he's not REALLY from Carelia."
Are all just a way of saying, "I dislike him– I will invent new category restrictions to exclude him."
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Yeah, happens in RL too.
Because people love to form in-groups and out-groups based on their own perceptions of who they like.
"He's in Carelia... but he doesn't sing the Carelian national anthem in his messages... so he's not REALLY from Carelia."
"He's in Carelia... but he has a character in Suville too... so he's not REALLY from Carelia."
Are all just a way of saying, "I dislike him– I will invent new category restrictions to exclude him."
Poor examples IMO, but yeah.
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Reposting this here from another thread because it's more relevant here:
This treaty is probably the best thing that has happened to the Eston-part of the Atamara map in many years, in terms of Gameplay, etc. The old, stagnant culture and power hierarchy has been completely broken in Eston proper, while in the mean time there are now 3 realms in the area who can all claim some sort of legitimacy to the "Eston" legacy.
Rieleston: seceded "technically" because they thought King Kerwin has driven Eston down a course no longer in longer in line with its ideals, claim to be the true spiritual successor to "King Andrew." Possesses several characters who strongly represent Eston's old guard. It's Prime Minister is the "long lost son" (same player) as a previous Eston King, and it's main Duke (the one who seceded) has been Duke of Barad Lacirith and King of Eston in the past.
Eston: obviously the remnants of the old Kingdom and has claim to the political legacy of Eston, however has had its house almost entirely cleaned. The old guard is gone. New Judge, New Banker, New General (all who have previously not held significant positions outside of Rural Lord) and soon a new Monarch, who will likely also be brand new to the "big stage."
Lyonesse: forcefully separated from Eston, already talk of reunification, a brand new realm with potential for new culture/identity. Ruler/Duke was close friend of Kerwin, Hawthorne was strongly pro-Kerwin/Monarchy during the Rieleston secession.
It is an extremely interesting situation and has a lot of potential for some cool things to happen.
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Yeah, happens in RL too.
Because people love to form in-groups and out-groups based on their own perceptions of who they like.
"He's in Carelia... but he doesn't sing the Carelian national anthem in his messages... so he's not REALLY from Carelia."
"He's in Carelia... but he has a character in Suville too... so he's not REALLY from Carelia."
Are all just a way of saying, "I dislike him– I will invent new category restrictions to exclude him."
All of that is certainly true...But I dare you to state that you have never been in a realm that had at least one noble that never did a damn thing, or explicitly joined just because they "heard this was where the big fighting was going to be".
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I was mostly inactive during the war with the Empire (log in to avoid auto-pause) but i can assure you that i have no idea about these two nobles.
I'll take "Logical Fallacies" for $200, Alex.
Hmm. What is the No True Scotsman Fallacy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman)?
Sorry i have no idea what is that "No True Scotsman Fallacy" even after re reading explanation, but neither i care i am from the Caribean not British, so if you don't understand something from me just ask me and i will try to explain it more clear.
As i stated before, it happened in Fontan, it happened in SOA, it happened in every realm i have been with war. Once the war are over, you see member of your realm leaving to the enemy side, some of those you even wondered "who the hell was that?". Many nobles join a realm and you see them saying nothing for months.
As i Said before, Spare me the drama.
You show me 3 characters, by logic is true they were "part of Carelia" but if you go deeper (Quoting inception) you see what were their true colors.
One of them with 1 year and 3 months on the realms and Honor: 6 prestige: 17......Jesus, he never fought a single battle, i thought i was idle but he beat me to it, at least i had to log in and buy food for the city once a week. The other was a Enemy's alt. And the Third was asked by the Treaty to be Banished from Carelia.
I will be more clear, and explain more on my first intervention this week.
Coria is made by the same Nobles of Falasan.
Hammerset was made by the same Minas Ithil nobles
Minas Leon is made by the same Nobles of Minas Ithil
Suville is the same group of nobles from well...you know..
Helmsdale...
Rieleston....
Bisquez Empire....ohh wait this one is not done
And so on....
On every country there is something i know as "Clientelismo" is when you do favor to the Government like donating, voting, influences, etc. To gain something once is on power. On Atamara that happens a lot, but even worse, because many Dukes negotiate with the enemy realm.
Well and something like that..
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The danger in making this kind of argument, Sonya, is that it exposes one to the same critique. There are many people who believe that Sonya—or more specifically, inept or lazy dukes/duchesses—were the root cause of the Carelian dysfunction. They failed to perform basic tasks expected of them, and the Duchess of Strombran in particular seemed rather hesitant to go to war with her old friends in the Cagilan Empire. All of this resulted in the squandering of much excellent forethought and planning on the part of the Queen.
Whether one believes the above to be true is irrelevant. The point is that it cannot be properly refuted—just argued about incessantly, which is hardly a good thing for players to be doing.
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The danger in making this kind of argument, Sonya, is that it exposes one to the same critique. There are many people who believe that Sonya—or more specifically, inept or lazy dukes/duchesses—were the root cause of the Carelian dysfunction. They failed to perform basic tasks expected of them, and the Duchess of Strombran in particular seemed rather hesitant to go to war with her old friends in the Cagilan Empire. All of this resulted in the squandering of much excellent forethought and planning on the part of the Queen.
Whether one believes the above to be true is irrelevant. The point is that it cannot be properly refuted—just argued about incessantly, which is hardly a good thing for players to be doing.
Is true, if i were more active during these times Carelia wouldn't be like is now, but there are times that we cant control the time we can spent IG. since past December i had to leave the city, and came back yesterday. same happened that time, once i could recover my time was too late.
Certainly, the way i play "that" character is very strict in the code of honor, i didn't wanted the war with the Empire for the friends i had, but because it was wrong to fight and betray an ally. but also the wishes of the crown was absolute for Sonya. the Queen wanted war, i was no one (even as Duchess) no one to complain, and changing allegiance/seceding is a 700% no. all i did to protest was staying within walls. Then later it came my Job promotion i had to move, etc. etc....ahh Real Life that i love so much......
But this turn made me play a role i hate the most and is "The Politician" it stresses me more than my real job itself, i hit the desk so hard a couple of times that people around me was scared that i was gonna fire some one.
And i have to thank BM and everyone of you for turning my lightweight hobby game in a living hell, one of these days i swear i will exile myself to the Colonies.
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Is true, if i were more active during these times Carelia wouldn't be like is now, but there are times that we cant control the time we can spent IG. since past December i had to leave the city, and came back yesterday. same happened that time, once i could recover my time was too late.
Certainly, the way i play "that" character is very strict in the code of honor, i didn't wanted the war with the Empire for the friends i had, but because it was wrong to fight and betray an ally. but also the wishes of the crown was absolute for Sonya. the Queen wanted war, i was no one (even as Duchess) no one to complain, and changing allegiance/seceding is a 700% no. all i did to protest was staying within walls. Then later it came my Job promotion i had to move, etc. etc....ahh Real Life that i love so much......
But this turn made me play a role i hate the most and is "The Politician" it stresses me more than my real job itself, i hit the desk so hard a couple of times that people around me was scared that i was gonna fire some one.
And i have to thank BM and everyone of you for turning my lightweight hobby game in a living hell, one of these days i swear i will exile myself to the Colonies.
If a game takes such a toll in your life just pause.
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I don't see a problem. Step down from w/e position that you are not enjoying and let other people take over. Clinging to power you don't enjoy OOC just because it makes IC sense will turn your life into hell. It's not fair to blame other players for your misery. Other players may enjoy this political game. Do what you love doing, we already have enough unpleasantness in real life.
I was a count of Skezard, wanted to get into the Sirion's politics. Turns out senators in Sirion don't hold any power, and the pay in Skezard was miserable. I also did not want to spend all this time to get to the place I wanted, so I went back to being a rich knight, following orders, etc. It's not the end of the world to let go.
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I don't see a problem. Step down from w/e position that you are not enjoying and let other people take over. Clinging to power you don't enjoy OOC just because it makes IC sense will turn your life into hell. It's not fair to blame other players for your misery. Other players may enjoy this political game. Do what you love doing, we already have enough unpleasantness in real life.
I was a count of Skezard, wanted to get into the Sirion's politics. Turns out senators in Sirion don't hold any power, and the pay in Skezard was miserable. I also did not want to spend all this time to get to the place I wanted, so I went back to being a rich knight, following orders, etc. It's not the end of the world to let go.
+1
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Everybody is getting worked up!
This is the perfect time for me to pull my earthquake scroll out and shake things up!
*Adjusting his topknot, he pulls a scroll from one of his many pouches accidently droping it, it unfolds, turning out to be... a itch scroll. Scratching his head some*
Well its not a quake scroll, but it'll do!
*Begins marching in the direction of Eston*
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This treaty is probably the best thing that has happened to the Eston-part of the Atamara map in many years, in terms of Gameplay, etc. The old, stagnant culture and power hierarchy has been completely broken in Eston proper, while in the mean time there are now 3 realms in the area who can all claim some sort of legitimacy to the "Eston" legacy.
And all we had to do was drag Eston there, with her nobles kicking, screaming, crying, and whining the entire way.
You're welcome. ;)
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And all we had to do was drag Eston there, with her nobles kicking, screaming, crying, and whining the entire way.
You're welcome. ;)
lol
And in a totally unsurprising addition to the saga of "Eston players who can't let go," Athena's character paused immediately upon arrival in Thalmarkin, and a new character has been made in Eston.
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lol
And in a totally unsurprising addition to the saga of "Eston players who can't let go," Athena's character paused immediately upon arrival in Thalmarkin, and a new character has been made in Eston.
The 17 year old "daughter" of an 80 year old woman.... :o
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The 17 year old "daughter" of an 80 year old woman.... :o
+1
She had an active retirement.
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Ew. EW. Eeeeeeeeeewwwwww. At least say it's your granddaughter. Having a kid at 63... That should be a war crime. >:(
Incidentally, this is the exact same trick that Kerwin should pull. I don't get all this angst and drama over his exile. What's the big deal? He can bypass it by:
Step 1: Make Kerwin II.
Step 2: THERE IS NO STEP 2!
Raziel is on Raziel IV, now, for goodness sake. ::)
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Ew. EW. Eeeeeeeeeewwwwww. At least say it's your granddaughter. Having a kid at 63... That should be a war crime. >:(
Incidentally, this is the exact same trick that Kerwin should pull. I don't get all this angst and drama over his exile. What's the big deal? He can bypass it by:
Step 1: Make Kerwin II.
Step 2: THERE IS NO STEP 2!
Raziel is on Raziel IV, now, for goodness sake. ::)
Except its wretched RP and in poor taste to use character creation as ban-avoidance.
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Except its wretched RP and in poor taste to use character creation as ban-avoidance.
Creating a clone is in bad taste. If you simply enjoy that realm, creating a genuinely different young character would be fine.
What is really wrong is for the realm to immediately put that new character in a position of power.
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What is really wrong is for the realm to immediately put that new character in a position of power.
Why? He's the Son of the King in a Monarchy....
Doesn't really seem far-fetched to me.
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Why? He's the Son of the King in a Monarchy....
Doesn't really seem far-fetched to me.
It's.... un-BMian. But, yeah, it does make historical sense.
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I'm not saying he should get free access to the kingship forever just because he was King once. However, in all sense of RP he has a good claim.
Even if he doesn't become King, sticking around and gaining influence wouldn't be difficult. Players like playing with those they can trust and have seen work well for their realm.
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I'm not saying he should get free access to the kingship forever just because he was King once. However, in all sense of RP he has a good claim.
Even if he doesn't become King, sticking around and gaining influence wouldn't be difficult. Players like playing with those they can trust and have seen work well for their realm.
Really what I disagree with are the automatic promotions, those that don't even bother with any RP at all. Within a sensible time frame and a minimum of effort, I do agree that this character should have a leg up compared with others with no familial connections. I've profited from it myself.
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I would never do something like that because, first of all, it's super lame and kind of annoying when other people do it, like Athena. Literally the "daughter's" second message sent to the realm was "Hey, why haven't we given away Belegrond yet?" Like... her "daughter" character is not even missing a beat between her and Athena.
Also, it just isn't fun. All of my character are unique individuals in my mind and when they aren't, they cease to be fun for me to play. I just paused my character on East Island because I was never able to get much character development going with him and he lacked a unique persona in my mind, so he was boring to me.
If I were boot up Kerwin 2.0 right after Kerwin left, even if I was doing it with the attempt of making it a new character, it would be hard for me to actually do so so quickly after Kerwin left. It would be hard not to play the character as basically Kerwin (especially if it was right back in Eston). I would need to leave the continent for at least a few months so I could come back with a fresh perspective.
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I'm not saying he should get free access to the kingship forever just because he was King once. However, in all sense of RP he has a good claim.
Even if he doesn't become King, sticking around and gaining influence wouldn't be difficult. Players like playing with those they can trust and have seen work well for their realm.
The current PM of Rieleston tried to doe xactly this. Showed up and, like, a month later or somethng, with few messages to the realm, was asserting a right to kingship. That's what led to Rieleston's secession.
Honestly, if Perth tried something like that, my character would pretty much devote his remaining career to stymying it. I just find it so anathema and distasteful in BM to have a clique of players re-creating themselves to secure power.
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The current PM of Rieleston tried to doe xactly this. Showed up and, like, a month later or somethng, with few messages to the realm, was asserting a right to kingship. That's what led to Rieleston's secession.
Honestly, if Perth tried something like that, my character would pretty much devote his remaining career to stymying it. I just find it so anathema and distasteful in BM to have a clique of players re-creating themselves to secure power.
Yeah, Kerwin argued pretty emphatically about how there is zero precedence for such a thing as the hereditary inheritance of titles (on any level, but especially in the Monarchy), in Eston or BM in general. Because, well, it's true.
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The current PM of Rieleston tried to doe xactly this. Showed up and, like, a month later or somethng, with few messages to the realm, was asserting a right to kingship. That's what led to Rieleston's secession.
Honestly, if Perth tried something like that, my character would pretty much devote his remaining career to stymying it. I just find it so anathema and distasteful in BM to have a clique of players re-creating themselves to secure power.
Except for the fact that Christopher II had been in the realm for almost a year, about 2 months longer than your character, had established through RP's during that year that he was the son of a former king, and was "pushed into the spotlight" by other characters who had no claim to the throne (mine being one of them) as a way to RP a legitimate removal of what one faction viewed as an ineffective and incompetent king fully under the influence of an overzealous priest...who showed up in the realm one day venomously denouncing the realm, its nobles, and King for a lack of religious fervor without much of an introductory RP for, at the time, a nobody (in Eston) who just happened to be from a well-known family.
Of course Kerwin would denounce Christopher II...he was the King. Since this was previously anticipated by players smarter than you believe us to be, other plans were in place and long in motion. A game mechanic hiccup left us without Elost, which still vexes us now, but the secession was the plan all along, not a rebellion. Everything was done IC and with a lot of public and private RP's (Elroy worked for months to make sure alliances were in place and that Artutius could not back out of the plan, and when real-life kept me away from the game for a few days and another member of the Entreri family was executed, that was turned into an IC reason for the secession and now a rift between Elroy and Arturius). I don't know why you two act as though this was some minor tantrum instead of a mostly well-executed and RP'd plan. Seriously, the amount of mudslinging and whining towards Rieleston from you two on this board is...excessive and doesn't yet appear to be therapeutic.
I agree that a 17 year old daughter of an 80 year old female is ridiculous, but RP'ing a claim to the throne by an established character based on historical precedent is a pretty solid and logical RP. If Kerwin II shows up and tries to claim the throne of Eston, I think that would lead to some pretty entertaining politics...and a knife in his back of course.
The two of you constantly rewrite the details surrounding Rieleston, but I feel compelled to speak up when things get really inaccurate.
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Except for the fact that Christopher II had been in the realm for almost a year, about 2 months longer than your character, had established through RP's during that year that he was the son of a former king, and was "pushed into the spotlight" by other characters who had no claim to the throne (mine being one of them) as a way to RP a legitimate removal of what one faction viewed as an ineffective and incompetent king fully under the influence of an overzealous priest...who showed up in the realm one day venomously denouncing the realm, its nobles, and King for a lack of religious fervor without much of an introductory RP for, at the time, a nobody (in Eston) who just happened to be from a well-known family.
Of course Kerwin would denounce Christopher II...he was the King. Since this was previously anticipated by players smarter than you believe us to be, other plans were in place and long in motion. A game mechanic hiccup left us without Elost, which still vexes us now, but the secession was the plan all along, not a rebellion. Everything was done IC and with a lot of public and private RP's (Elroy worked for months to make sure alliances were in place and that Artutius could not back out of the plan, and when real-life kept me away from the game for a few days and another member of the Entreri family was executed, that was turned into an IC reason for the secession and now a rift between Elroy and Arturius). I don't know why you two act as though this was some minor tantrum instead of a mostly well-executed and RP'd plan. Seriously, the amount of mudslinging and whining towards Rieleston from you two on this board is...excessive and doesn't yet appear to be therapeutic.
I agree that a 17 year old daughter of an 80 year old female is ridiculous, but RP'ing a claim to the throne by an established character based on historical precedent is a pretty solid and logical RP. If Kerwin II shows up and tries to claim the throne of Eston, I think that would lead to some pretty entertaining politics...and a knife in his back of course.
The two of you constantly rewrite the details surrounding Rieleston, but I feel compelled to speak up when things get really inaccurate.
Pretty sure you have your chronology wrong; I don't think Christopher was present before Cyrilos (or, if so, he was paused). I'm almost certain I remember his arrival.
And to me it's not just Christopher: it's the entire establishment of 80-year-old characters who've all held power forever and all have second characters in Eston. And how, for example, Arturius I remember for sure, threw major OOC tantrums over Eston not "being what it used to be." I've literally never been in a realm with as much OOC politics as Eston.
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I didn't realize that Cyrilos was a member of Eston before returning from Beluaterra. Must have been during Elroy's time on Beluaterra, since I knew nothing about your character. Christoper II arrived while you were gone, but his "political arrival" was announced leading up to the secession.
As for two characters in one realm...that is everywhere in the game. Some people can RP in that situation, and others can't.
And yes, Eston is filled with detestable OOC issues...and I was one who reminded the player of Luka/Kealan repeatedly to keep them separate...and even reported you to the "court" once as well for an OOC issue (I am not going to restart that debate). The player of Arturius does get emotional at times over the "old Eston" for personal reasons, but that had nothing to do with the secession, which was a completely IC motivated event...if it had been OOC motivated, it would have occurred at least 4 months prior.
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As for two characters in one realm...that is everywhere in the game.
Ah...no. No, it's not.
For one thing, it's absolutely impossible on Dwilight.
For another, there is a pronounced tendency for it to be more common in realms with a more "old-school-BattleMaster" mindset.
According to the data I have, and excluding the Colonies (which are a special case), Eston is tied for third in the game among realms with two nobles per family. (The actual figure is 1.29 nobles per player in Eston, which works out to nearly a third of your players having two characters in the realm.)
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According to the data I have, and excluding the Colonies (which are a special case), Eston is tied for third in the game among realms with two nobles per family. (The actual figure is 1.29 nobles per player in Eston, which works out to nearly a third of your players having two characters in the realm.)
In other words: not that much. I surprised that a mere 1.29 ratio, less than a third, warrants third rank...
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And the "need-to-prove-a-point, nit-pick-every-word" voices come out of the wood work over a single word in a single sentence. A more interesting statistic would be to exclude every realm (since it was convenient for your point to throw out the Colonies, namely Lukon), and instead focus of the issue of discussion, which was realms with "old" characters in power with a second character in the same realm. To say that ssituation doesn't happen a lot is not true, says over 6 years of game experience in multiple realms on most of the islands.
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Recently when we seemed to lose players, many people created another char if possible to "important" realms to keep em running. There was a lot estates empty and to keep realms functional chars were created.
But i dont see much of problem on it. It is a bit boring to play 2 chars... my reasoning was that my oldest char is so old that it was pretty hard to do anything else than be The Grumpy man... so created younger one to enjoy battles and warfare.
-Jaune
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And the "need-to-prove-a-point, nit-pick-every-word" voices come out of the wood work over a single word in a single sentence. A more interesting statistic would be to exclude every realm (since it was convenient for your point to throw out the Colonies, namely Lukon), and instead focus of the issue of discussion, which was realms with "old" characters in power with a second character in the same realm. To say that ssituation doesn't happen a lot is not true, says over 6 years of game experience in multiple realms on most of the islands.
Sure, it happens everywhere (except for Dwilight). Anecdotally though, I would say that Atamara in general is the worst afflicted. I'd be very curious to see the rest of Vellos' list.
Seriously though, Atamara needs to be fumigated or something. The average playing time of the players who are rulers on Atamara is astoundingly long, which speaks volumes about the limits of upward mobility on that island. It is completely choked with incestuous old-timey IC cliques.
I'll be very curious to see what CE is like over the long term now that I'm playing there. It's a Republic for one thing, which actually serves it very well I think, as they have one of the younger and more dynamic rulers on the island. I'd very much like to get myself into the Senate at some point and see if it is also a dynamic institution. If so, that could go along way toward explaining CE's success in my opinion; the appearance of upward mobility and the opportunity to be engaged and have a say in the realm is a hugely important factor in recruiting and retaining talented young nobles. As a player I can remember that when I started playing BM, I nearly quit after joining an Atamaran realm as my first destination. The place seemed completely dominated by a clique of characters who had been around forever, and I really didn't see any point in staying just to march back and forth across the island on trips that took almost a week in one direction, especially when the prevailing atmosphere seemed to be that the opinions of those outside the clique were not welcome. Thank goodness I gave Dwilight a try when it was just being opened up.
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I'll be very curious to see what CE is like over the long term now that I'm playing there. It's a Republic for one thing, which actually serves it very well I think, as they have one of the younger and more dynamic rulers on the island. I'd very much like to get myself into the Senate at some point and see if it is also a dynamic institution. If so, that could go along way toward explaining CE's success in my opinion; the appearance of upward mobility and the opportunity to be engaged and have a say in the realm is a hugely important factor in recruiting and retaining talented young nobles. As a player I can remember that when I started playing BM, I nearly quit after joining an Atamaran realm as my first destination. The place seemed completely dominated by a clique of characters who had been around forever, and I really didn't see any point in staying just to march back and forth across the island on trips that took almost a week in one direction, especially when the prevailing atmosphere seemed to be that the opinions of those outside the clique were not welcome. Thank goodness I gave Dwilight a try when it was just being opened up.
Interesting take. When I joined Atamara 4.5 years ago in CE, I was given a region lordship within 1 month. (First character on this account too).
CE's senate though by my "dated" experience is kind of static. The Dukes have all been in power forever. (pretty much same everywhere though) The Prime Ministers of CE are usually lackeys of one Duke or another. The good ones are the ones who start wars CE has a hard time winning, because they are the ones trying to make CE a fun place.
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Interesting take. When I joined Atamara 4.5 years ago in CE, I was given a region lordship within 1 month. (First character on this account too).
I was once told in Tara that it is impossible for someone with less than 1000 days in the realm to be named Vice-Marshal. I left Atamara, and what I heard anecdotically of the other realms convinced me never to go back. If CE truly gives a chance to newcomers, then I can see that they would be the only ones to retain players.
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I was once told in Tara that it is impossible for someone with less than 1000 days in the realm to be named Vice-Marshal. I left Atamara, and what I heard anecdotically of the other realms convinced me never to go back. If CE truly gives a chance to newcomers, then I can see that they would be the only ones to retain players.
They aren't the only ones to retain new players. Most of CE's offshoots do as well. I know Darka retains most of theirs.
Coria for instance, if you joined our realm you could likely gain the first lordship election that occurred. (We have less than 2 nobles per region at this point) If you wanted to be a Marshal you'd be appointed almost immediately. All are welcome in our military council if they show interest and aren't obvious spies.
You just have to look around really.
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You just have to look around really.
I admit I haven't; I looked around on other continents instead, and I stayed there. I'm glad things are better.
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Upon re-examining my data at the request of someone who was looking for first and second place, I realized that I had messed up a couple of things.
First of all, the data I was using before was including adventurers in its numbers, which changes the picture slightly. Second of all, the data were slightly old, and I have updated my numbers with the most recent data available to me. Finally, due to the formatting of my calculations, I managed to miss one other realm that beat Eston for doublets in the realm—Rieleston.
So, for reference, here are the realms with a greater than 1.25 ratio of nobles to players (meaning that at least 1/4 of the realm has 2 characters there):
- Lukon: 1.44*
- Darka: 1.33
- Barony of Makar and Armonía: 1.32
- Rieleston: 1.3
- Outer Tilog: 1.29*
- Eston: 1.28
- Enweil: 1.27
- Obsidian Islands: 1.25
*Due to the nature of the Colonies, with only 1 turn per day, I do consider it to have a different demographic profile than the rest of the continents, and thus I don't consider these numbers to be truly comparable with those from other continents.
So, as you can see, Eston itself isn't quite as bad as I'd originally thought, though it's still not great. Rieleston is noticeably worse, though.
Honestly, the only two things that surprise me about this list are that Armonía is on it, and that CE isn't. They're actually down at a ratio of 1.15—though I do wonder, if I analyzed those 15% of its players who have 2 characters in the realm, how many of them would be old-timers.
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Ah...no. No, it's not.
For one thing, it's absolutely impossible on Dwilight.
For another, there is a pronounced tendency for it to be more common in realms with a more "old-school-BattleMaster" mindset.
According to the data I have, and excluding the Colonies (which are a special case), Eston is tied for third in the game among realms with two nobles per family. (The actual figure is 1.29 nobles per player in Eston, which works out to nearly a third of your players having two characters in the realm.)
YEah, now it's 1.29...
Add in the folks who've recently bumped a character over to Hawthorne, Rieleston, or Darka.
I'll bet Eston was #1.
There was a point where, on Eston's High Council, Cyrilos sent a heated message to them (ICly) saying, almost exacyly, "You are foggy old men on the edge of death– get some new blood!" because the average age of the High Council was 68.
I think I've only ever even had 1, MAYBE 2 characters EVER get to 68, let alone a whole realm governed by nobles whose AVERAGE age is 68.
Eston is getting cleaned up. Still a high frequency of 2-chars, though average age is declining and time-in-office is too.
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Honestly, the only two things that surprise me about this list are that Armonía is on it, and that CE isn't. They're actually down at a ratio of 1.15—though I do wonder, if I analyzed those 15% of its players who have 2 characters in the realm, how many of them would be old-timers.
I bet you'd see a HEAVY correlation between old-timers and having two nobles in a realm.
This is a slightly skewed statistic because old-timers are more likely to have enough noble characters to be able to spare a second noble in the same realm.
For instance, I have two chars in Coria. We needed them for estates when noble counts were dropping everywhere about 2 years ago. Never found a reason to leave with the char.
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I should note, one statistic I do have access to right now is what percentage of players in a realm play either only on that continent, or only within that one realm. On Atamara, Darka is well up there in that statistic, with 13% of its players playing nowhere but Darka, though Carelia and Talerium have it solidly beaten, with 20%. (That's not because of new players, either; the statistics take that into account.)
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YEah, now it's 1.29...
Add in the folks who've recently bumped a character over to Hawthorne, Rieleston, or Darka.
I'll bet Eston was #1.
You're absolutely right. Rolling back the data to last October, Eston's ratio was 1.48.
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Honestly, the only two things that surprise me about this list are that Armonía is on it, and that CE isn't. They're actually down at a ratio of 1.15—though I do wonder, if I analyzed those 15% of its players who have 2 characters in the realm, how many of them would be old-timers.
CE probably isn't on it because there are so many characters in the realm overall (70+). The sheer number of them dilutes the ratio. Armonia's problem is likely the opposite: A few players with two characters in a realm that doesn't have that many characters to begin with (ditto for OI). Do you happen to have statistics for the absolute number of players with two characters in each realm? I'd be curious to see those stats as well.
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I don't know why you two act as though this was some minor tantrum instead of a mostly well-executed and RP'd plan. Seriously, the amount of mudslinging and whining towards Rieleston from you two on this board is...excessive and doesn't yet appear to be therapeutic.
The two of you constantly rewrite the details surrounding Rieleston, but I feel compelled to speak up when things get really inaccurate.
I don't think I, or anyone else, has ever said that the Rieleston issue wasn't good RP or anything. It was fine, it was fun. I enjoyed it, and haven't said anything otherwise. It was a good thing for Eston and it was refreshing to see some actual conflict in Eston. Kerwin obviously disliked it, and it obviously hurt Eston in terms of the war. But the conflict between Kerwin and those loyal to him such as Cyrilos, Azreal, Kealan/Luka and Christopher, Arturius, Elroy, etc. was a lot of fun. I've literally never said it wasn't RPed or played out effectively.
What I have said, and what is true, is that Rieleston is the pet project of an exclusive group of old time players with little interest in involving other people in their group and who perpetuate their group through the use of extremely old characters, second "ghost" characters, and "I'm this guy's son treat me the same as him, 2.0" characters.
....the average age of the High Council was 68.
I think I've only ever even had 1, MAYBE 2 characters EVER get to 68, let alone a whole realm governed by nobles whose AVERAGE age is 68.
Keeping in mind that Kerwin, the King, is only now 54.
It is funny to think that Eston's long time General (the one who quit the game recently) was a 70something year old woman!
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It is funny to think that Eston's long time General (the one who quit the game recently) was a 70something year old woman!
...who everyone thought was a man.
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...who everyone thought was a man.
Really, lol? Never knew that. People in Eston didn't at least. Propably because she was often referenced as "my sister" by her brother character, Kealan, who was Duke of Hawthorne.
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"Luka" sounds like a male name. At least to me. Also, "Luka" is the name of the young boy that lives "on the second floor" in that 80's pop song. I believe that the player once said that he picked the name Luka for his female character because at the time he had interpreted the song incorrectly, and thought Luka was the girl in the song rather than the boy.
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...who everyone thought was a man.
... That was a woman?
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:D
All these years i thought HE was a man!
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Luka was a woman?
Woops... coulda' fooled me.
You're absolutely right. Rolling back the data to last October, Eston's ratio was 1.48.
Thought as much.
I will now rest on my laurels on this particular point.
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THAT'S A MAN BABY!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgOIEGz7o_s
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Gosh... thanks to CE crippling Eston and empowering Rieleston, Rieleston is becoming the exact same pit of stodgy old players with multiple characters, with an elite circle of friends that Eston was before. That group of players, man. They are awful.
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Except that they are now CE's buddies! I bet CE aint giving those regions to Realston free... there is demand behind all that luxury they get :)
-Jaune
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Except that they are now CE's buddies! I bet CE aint giving those regions to Realston free... there is demand behind all that luxury they get :)
-Jaune
]
They aren't. "Become our puppet and we'll give you regions."
Then future Rieleston members will be like, "but CE has always been friendly to us..."
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Gosh... thanks to CE crippling Eston and empowering Rieleston, Rieleston is becoming the exact same pit of stodgy old players with multiple characters, with an elite circle of friends that Eston was before. That group of players, man. They are awful.
Now, that's a little harsh Perth.
But now I'm totally going to go calculate some average age values...
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Now, that's a little harsh Perth.
I'm not bitter, I swear! ::)
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My forecast: 3-9 month war to defeat Darka/BoM followed by 2 years of peace and stagnation.
Good Riddance
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Join the bright side of life... or was it Darka side?
-Jaune
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My forecast: 3-9 month war to defeat Darka/BoM followed by 2 years of peace and stagnation.
Good Riddance
Don't be too sure, Coria might provide us with another big war. This Phoenix Empire seems to be polarizing Atamara again...
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Don't be too sure, Coria might provide us with another big war. This Phoenix Empire seems to be polarizing Atamara again...
Don't bet on it.
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My forecast: 3-9 month war to defeat Darka/BoM followed by 2 years of peace and stagnation.
Good Riddance
CE can't beat Darka 1v1. The numbers never lie. And of course the aces we got.
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RIP Phoenix Empire.
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CE can't beat Darka 1v1. The numbers never lie. And of course the aces we got.
What on earth makes you think this is going to be 1v1?
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What on earth makes you think this is going to be 1v1?
I'd like to know the last time a 1v1 war happened on Atamara....
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I'd like to know the last time a 1v1 war happened on Atamara....
Minas Ithil vs Minas Leon
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Nope, several realms did interfare on this fight between ML and MI at the start.
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Also, ML was always granted defensive assistance should they ask for it. It basically allowed them to be on a constant offensive.
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Except that they are now CE's buddies! I bet CE aint giving those regions to Realston free... there is demand behind all that luxury they get :)
-Jaune
Wrong.
They aren't. "Become our puppet and we'll give you regions."
Then future Rieleston members will be like, "but CE has always been friendly to us..."
Wrong.
Yes, it never hurts to be generous to duchies that secede from your enemy, crippling said enemy in the process. However, Belegrond, Ashmoor, and Elost were payment for services already rendered. And I'm not talking about the secession.
I would think that Merlin and KK, being the masters of intrigue that they are, would be privy to CE's secret backroom dealings. :p
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Wrong.
Wrong.
Yes, it never hurts to be generous to duchies that secede from your enemy, crippling said enemy in the process. However, Belegrond, Ashmoor, and Elost were payment for services already rendered. And I'm not talking about the secession.
I would think that Merlin and KK, being the masters of intrigue that they are, would be privy to CE's secret backroom dealings. :p
Um, there is a demand attached to it and it was said in game to my character(probably by yours if I remember right) . Whether you want to say they'd "already" agreed to it or not, whatever. But still, those regions weren't free. I know what CE receives from it, but I don't feel like posting it unless you keep insisting that this was some sort of one way exchange.
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RIP Phoenix Empire.
What happened? I'm not privy anymore :-\
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Merlin canceled project. Rumours say cause of external(Ce & Tara) and internal pressure.
-Jaune
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Merlin canceled project. Rumours say cause of external(Ce & Tara) and internal pressure.
-Jaune
Damn.
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He wouldn't have canceled it purely out of external pressure, but both of his key supporters (Ravendon and Saeculo) asked him to abandon it. In fact, it was less than five minutes after Ravendon sent his request to abandon it that Merlin officially called it off.
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He wouldn't have canceled it purely out of external pressure, but both of his key supporters (Ravendon and Saeculo) asked him to abandon it. In fact, it was less than five minutes after Ravendon sent his request to abandon it that Merlin officially called it off.
Why did they ask him to shut it down? I thought they were behind it? Also... he isn't King anymore? I thought the build up to him being King had been coming for a while?
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Why did they ask him to shut it down? I thought they were behind it? Also... he isn't King anymore? I thought the build up to him being King had been coming for a while?
The politics became completely toxic. It got to a point where it was clear that the project had failed for all intents and purposes, and attempting to continue on with it would end up doing far more harm than good.
As far as King Merlin goes, from what I can gather many people in the realm were caught off guard by both of his announcements, and that surprise quickly hardened into strong and vocal opposition. He won't be ruler for much longer, and objectively speaking that would probably be the best thing for Coria at this point.
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I can't speak for Saeculo beyond the fact that he was very upset with Merlin becoming King. That never had full support from either Ravendon or Saeculo. Saeculo outright rejected it, Ravendon thought it appropriate under very specific circumstances. Once that problem cropped up, Saeculo wasn't willing to support Merlin at all, including the Empire.
Ravendon, on the other hand, has been waiting and watching, determining what can actually save Coria. I told him to drop the Empire more because our internal matters have become much more pressing than any external matters. We can pretty easily just stop trying things outside Coria, but those within will continue to protest or speak out. We're not going to save Coria from outside Coria.
I think we are both still for the idea of the Empire (as a diplomatic tool to prevent unnecessary external forces in small conflicts), but have always been against explicitly using it to sabotage allies or save Darka and BoM. Considering the letters that say Merlin was planning to do just that, it was better to drop support. (I had always seen the Empire as helping Darka and BoM by forcing terms to be given and preventing some of the more extreme terms given to Eston... Not outright saving them.)
As for the King deal, all the buildup must've been Merlin's fabrication. Nobody that I know of within Coria actually expected him to do it immediately. When he did and explained why, Coria polarized. He's changed it back to a Republic due to my insistence that the overwhelming resistance (we're talking almost 100 letters a day, maybe more, with about 90% either focused on the Monarchy or the Empire) was from the lack of procedure. He's taken some of my (and others) word to heart and decided to bring back the Republic until the referendum voting for a Monarchy or not has finished.
We'll see what happens when it finishes, but I can't see Merlin reasonably getting through this without much punishment. It makes me kind of sad, but I did warn him.
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The politics became completely toxic. It got to a point where it was clear that the project had failed for all intents and purposes, and attempting to continue on with it would end up doing far more harm than good.
As far as King Merlin goes, from what I can gather many people in the realm were caught off guard by both of his announcements, and that surprise quickly hardened into strong and vocal opposition. He won't be ruler for much longer, and objectively speaking that would probably be the best thing for Coria at this point.
There's always someone who says exactly what I was going to, just much shorter. (This is a rare case where the detail helps.)
As I said, though, if either Ravendon or Saeculo had tried to keep supporting it, Merlin would not have dropped it. We've had a three-way counterbalance effect for a while. Ravendon was the tie-breaker in this case; I waited a while to see how things would develop.
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There's always someone who says exactly what I was going to, just much shorter. (This is a rare case where the detail helps.)
As I said, though, if either Ravendon or Saeculo had tried to keep supporting it, Merlin would not have dropped it. We've had a three-way counterbalance effect for a while. Ravendon was the tie-breaker in this case; I waited a while to see how things would develop.
I was trying not to give away too many details. Those can be revealed later, after this situation has reached its IG conclusion. I felt like things got awful meta-gamey for a little while, so I figured I'd be cautious.
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That is a bummer. I am surprised by the outrage in Coria a little, I figured Merlin had a bit more of a loyal base than that.
More so, I am sad this died out so quickly. Has it even been a week? Looks like it failed and people wrote it off before it even got a chance to do anything... at all.
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It is sad... I was so excited for it.
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That is a bummer. I am surprised by the outrage in Coria a little, I figured Merlin had a bit more of a loyal base than that.
More so, I am sad this died out so quickly. Has it even been a week? Looks like it failed and people wrote it off before it even got a chance to do anything... at all.
Under the circumstances, I'm not surprised about what happened. I say that not to fault Merlin but because I've made very similar mistakes myself. I've learned the hard way that things like this can't be imposed unilaterally. You have to lay the groundwork and build a consensus in the realm to make sure you truly do have a majority backing you. That can be hard when people won't engage you in debate, but you have to get past that and put in the effort to assess where each an every character stands. Don't mistake inactivity for apathy; they are not the same in BM. Those Senators who hardly ever say anything might not feel like putting in the time to regularly comment on matters before the Senate, but if you try to railroad them into something they're against, they'll wake up alright. And then they'll give you hell. Been there, done that :P
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The politics are completely toxic right now as stated above. That's not the problem though. There is a huge dichotomy right now between IC and OOC perceptions of characters and players.
In terms of Coria:
On a completely OOC level, Coria has been completely stale and boring for a long long time. I took an action which I knew would liven up my realm. My action was one which woke everyone up that things weren't exactly nice and daisy. However, I have had a wide range of responses from players about what they think of it. Some have explicitly complimented me on what I have done, while I have also been questioned about the methods I employed whether they were considered within the spirit of the game.
On a completely IC level, my character took an action which completely upended his realm. He essentially ran a bloodless rebellion by pulling out of his political power and influence to make himself King. To do so, he polarized one of his closest friends into an enemy, and his other close friend as a helpless bystander. Merlin for multiple reasons while losing the support of the majority of the lords of the realm, likely has the support of the majority of the realm to become King. HOWEVER, there have been drastic moves and actions taken within the realm and amongst Coria's allies in an attempt to guarantee that Merlin cannot be King of Coria. These actions have been largely successful in the sense that even if I win the throne, the situation is so toxic that it will not be fun for me to play Merlin in any respect for the foreseeable future. Perhaps ever again. (Note: Currently in Coria a referendum is ongoing on whether or not to let Merlin remain as King of Coria or to have him step down and resume elections)
In terms of Atamara:
On an OOC level: Atamara is on its way to a period of extreme stagnation and peace built upon by the course of current politics. If the current pace of things continue, CE and co will win the war against Darka and BoM. At the end of that war, the entire continent will be allied to either CE or Tara, or forced into peace by treaty. At that time, it will not be possible for any realm to operate a war without prior permission from CE and Tara. Of course, since we all know players want wars, CE or Tara are likely to choose a side in this war, guaranteeing that the winner is likely the one to either appease CE(from now on considered to be both CE and Tara) or the defender who can claim abusive aggression. My plan to found this Phoenix Empire would have allowed this period of stagnation to never have occurred. The Empire was not a military organization, but a diplomatic framework for limited warfare, and pre-stated terms for peace in war. This would have prevented the coming stagnation and allow EVERY PLAYER on Atamara to enjoy a more fun experience over the course of time.
On an IC level: Many players decide to fully 100% create a dichotomy between their support for my proposal and their character's opinions. Fine, I accept that, but this dichotomy is also a very destructive pattern to take when it comes to playing games with friends. I have had many characters whose players support my plans fully, not just oppose my plans but go above and beyond in effort to run them into the ground and to make me feel bad about it at the same time. There have been what I see to be very intentional misreadings of my in game plans (which only have the intention to allow limited warfare, and more fun and dynamic wars) to read completely different things. Characters are completely ignoring what I write in letters, and refusing to discuss or debate anything. All of this is just fine in game, but if you're going to destroy someone, yet completely preclude them from any chance to even do anything, I kind of lose interest. I have spent the past week writing maybe 25-100 letters every single day just on Merlin. I've received between 100-200 letters each of these days and they are all demeaning.
Final thoughts: There is a reason that stagnation and terrible situations are allowed and able to occur. Players aren't interested in taking risks, not because their character might lose some power, but because if they take a risk, they risk being simply destroyed in all aspects. You want a ruler to let your realm have fun and to encourage interactive game play, fine. But don't rip them to shreds when they try to do some interesting things. Right now, I'm trying to decide between simply quitting battle master and simply stopping all meaningful game play. It is worth understanding that while we play characters, those characters can send their messages with the understanding that another player is the one reading those messages. At least give them the benefit of the doubt. Even if you plan to disagree and oppose characters, there are very specific ways you can go about it while still being reasonable. I just logged on to read my most recent set of msgs, and I can't even bring myself to try anymore. It doesn't even matter that I will likely WIN the f***ing election in Coria which grants Merlin the power to remain King of Coria.
All I know is that when I'm playing a board game with friends, you don't always plan fully to win everything. If I see something which will make things more fun for everyone at the table, then I'll try it out even if it isn't the smartest decision for myself personally. Because I'm here to have fun and play with friends, not to max min, and roflstomp those people making things interesting.
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So basically your idea was the only way to avoid two years of boredom on Atamara and you might as well quit BM because almost nobody went along with it... Let's stop this pity party. Your idea was never going to work. You were threatening the Cagilan/Taran bloc with secessions. What did you expect was going to happen? Your idea certainly livened things up, but in the end it'll just be racked up as one more well-intended but poorly executed attempt at curbing CE's power.
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You were threatening the Cagilan/Taran bloc with secessions.
No I wasn't. I'm not going to deal with that in game and on the forums.
Just stop.
So basically your idea was the only way to avoid two years of boredom on Atamara and you might as well quit BM because almost nobody went along with it
If that is how you choose to read a message that is trying to sort through a whole bunch of different avenues of thought, and so obviously this is all ME as a player throwing a hissy fit, then I think am perfectly on track at the maturity level of this game's player base.
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Settle down.
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Relax, Silverfire.
I'm sorry your idea hasn't panned out. I thought it was pretty cool, and I would have liked to have seen it go somewhere, but let's be realistic: It challenged the status quo in a big way. On Atamara, it's very hard to do that and get away with it. Yes, people misinterpreted your intentions, but honestly they mostly did it on purpose. Even from an IC perspective, there are plenty of good reasons for those characters to have done that. You should try not to take it personally.
Am I disappointed? Yes. But I'm not surprised, and I will keep playing. Let's see what happens next.
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Oh, Atamara... what you do to people...
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Ah..someone likes to post my only for elders in-game messages on this Forum just to prove how awesome they are? Heh...
Completely IC level: Somebody ran a bloodless rebellion by telling lies to his realm and hiding facts pulling out of his political power and influence to make himself King.
Completely OCC level : Somebody wants to liven up his realm by organizing back-stabbing events. Nice way to justify dishonorable IC acts through OCC explanation. Way to go !
In terms of Atamara,
on an OCC level: Somebody is telling that he no longer wants to wipe out realms so that allow EVERY PLAYER on Atamara to enjoy a more fun experience. What about plans to wipe out Rieleston? Is that the idea of giving fun to player?
on an IC level: somebody is claiming that people are misinterpreting him and he is pretending to be a victim. What is there to misinterpret? Words are clearly written on paper and people are not fools. Somebody is loosing interest? Yes sir, you will loose it when dishonorable acts become public. And someone thinks that writing 25-100 letters a day and reading 100-200 letters a day is stressful? Well, I have to agree on this one, it is stressful like hell, believe me, I know.
Final thoughts: Somebody thinks that people are not interested in taking risks. What somebody don't know is that people don't want to dishonorable acts, like, back-stabbing friends. Somebody wants benefit of doubt? Oh..no. That's not possible because somebody's secret letters find their way to somebody else's scribes and those people know the true face of the villain.
Somebody is here to play with friends and have fun? Why don't he straightaway join his real friends in enemy realms instead of back-stabbing other people?
Somebody wants to pretend to quit battlemaster and wants to gain words of sympathy by telling this to everyone? Well sir... you are addicted to this game just like all of us here. You can't leave it even if you try (unless you go to BM Rehabilitation Center) . My advise: start playing without back-stabbing and you will feel the difference.
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You're right, why the f*** would I expect you to understand.
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No Sir, I won't understand why is it necessary for you to back-stab and kill my realm. Sorry.
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No Sir, I won't understand why is it necessary for you to back-stab and kill my realm. Sorry.
If you bothered to read anything written at all by my character or pretty much any character in my realm you'd realize there is nothing to back that up.
And with that I'm done with responding here. You're just pissing me off.
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You think that people who are back-stabbed by a supposed friend are not pissed off as hell?
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Well, gotta admit that some might think they got backstabbed... especially IC, but if you read what was/is the purpose of the empire, you would understand that every realm was invited to join. This would be like treaty no assasination of council members on Atamara(which dont be effective anymore), but it was agreed no assasinations of rulers ,later council members. This "Empire" would have been agreement of realms that we dont destroy each other, we dont humiliate them to the end.
But i do understand IC and even OOC that CE & Boys felt pissed, after all.... it wouldnt be only them to run things around anymore.
I dont know what kind of talks Silverfire had with CE & Tara before announcing it.... maybby he should have talked about it first with them, sell the idea to current Empire.
-Jaune
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And several CE Lords don't really care about taking action against it. There's also a part that do want to take action against it, but what do you expect after reading messages about getting CE Dukes to secede, plans to destroy Rieleston to hurt CE, plans to make a powerbloc against CE/Tara, trying to 1v1 Tara and looking at options to see how loyal Talerium is to the Empire (Whether those claims are true or not is mostly irrelevant. At least a part of the Nobles believe it's true and do not trust Merlin at all, thats something that needs to be overcome now that those letters have come out). Of course, Nobles in CE/Tara are going to be riled up about reading that, and not even everyone is. They simply believe the Empire is set up with the purpose to fight CE/Tara, and there is enough 'evidence' for their beliefs to be reconfirmed.
Obviously, there is always a misrepresentation of what is meant and what is understood, and there's plenty of that around in BM, but that's part of the game. Plans never go according to plan, and there always some people that react differently then you expected. There still seems to be quite some unwillingness to take action against Coria in CE, so if those kind of messages that directly talk about weakening and attacking CE and her Allies wouldn't have come out, I think the whole thing would have had a lot more chance to be pulled off.
But don't quite BM. There are always these moments where you get disillusioned by the game. But just take a step back and play your characters without involving them too much in things (Just as normal Knights fighting for their Liege). I'm sure that, after a while, you'll rekindle that passion and look back at this as a learning experience. At least I have on those moments.
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No Sir, I won't understand why is it necessary for you to back-stab and kill my realm. Sorry.
You really can't understand, on an OOC level, why the policies of your realm are/have been bad for the island? At least to an extent? Even if you think some of us exaggerate it a little? And why people would want to challenge your realm or do something to at least change the power structure of how the island works some; make things less rigid and hegemonic?
Honestly?
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Ah..someone likes to post my only for elders in-game messages on this Forum just to prove how awesome they are? Heh...
Completely IC level: Somebody ran a bloodless rebellion by telling lies to his realm and hiding facts pulling out of his political power and influence to make himself King.
Completely OCC level : Somebody wants to liven up his realm by organizing back-stabbing events. Nice way to justify dishonorable IC acts through OCC explanation. Way to go !
In terms of Atamara,
on an OCC level: Somebody is telling that he no longer wants to wipe out realms so that allow EVERY PLAYER on Atamara to enjoy a more fun experience. What about plans to wipe out Rieleston? Is that the idea of giving fun to player?
on an IC level: somebody is claiming that people are misinterpreting him and he is pretending to be a victim. What is there to misinterpret? Words are clearly written on paper and people are not fools. Somebody is loosing interest? Yes sir, you will loose it when dishonorable acts become public. And someone thinks that writing 25-100 letters a day and reading 100-200 letters a day is stressful? Well, I have to agree on this one, it is stressful like hell, believe me, I know.
Final thoughts: Somebody thinks that people are not interested in taking risks. What somebody don't know is that people don't want to dishonorable acts, like, back-stabbing friends. Somebody wants benefit of doubt? Oh..no. That's not possible because somebody's secret letters find their way to somebody else's scribes and those people know the true face of the villain.
Somebody is here to play with friends and have fun? Why don't he straightaway join his real friends in enemy realms instead of back-stabbing other people?
Somebody wants to pretend to quit battlemaster and wants to gain words of sympathy by telling this to everyone? Well sir... you are addicted to this game just like all of us here. You can't leave it even if you try (unless you go to BM Rehabilitation Center) . My advise: start playing without back-stabbing and you will feel the difference.
Okay.
So I just realized that the heinously toxic lack of IC/OOC separation that ruins the fun for many might not only be an Eston thing. Maybe it's an Atamara thing?
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Atamara could really use a Hari Seldon about now. Shame Silverfire's attempt was shot down, I was interested.
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Hey, guys, can we please all remember that we are players? It's a game, it has no real effect on your everyday life. Berating a character IC is one thing, but don't drag that OOC and slather it all over the forums. If you walked into Merlin's player at the cornerstore, would you continue to yell at him because he tried to do something IG? I guarantee everyone around would think you the crazy one.
A character can be treated like scum because at the end of the day, he's imaginary. No lasting effects outside the game as a result. A player should never be treated like scum, who knows what their life is like? Even then, a game is a tool of recreation. Why should it be burdened with stress even after you disconnect from it?
The situation is almost over and whatever happens IG happens. Let Silverfire play his family in peace, it's unlikely he's playing them all as the same character.
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Nobody is berating Merlin's player.
As long as Merlin spreads lies and false propaganda, Jason is going to protest. If player of Merlin spreads falsehood on forums, then player of Jason will counter him (if he gets enough time from real life).
If Merlin needs peace, then probably he should start let others live in peace. It was him who was planting bomb in my pretty house :'(
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I think people have been using "peace and stagnation" as a boogeyman. Atamara has not been at peace since Enri started as General, many years ago. Since then we've seen stagnation on EC, FEI, and BT (post Daimon invasion), but not AT. People keep crying about the sky falling after every peace treaty, but soon enough another war starts.
Yes, the League bloc keeps winning wars. Yes, its leadership ruthlessly goes after any perceived threats and roots them out. Yes, the League has been ganged up on with superior numbers and won anyway. Why should success be punished? Why should superior strategy and diplomacy be demonized?
You really can't understand, on an OOC level, why the policies of your realm are/have been bad for the island? At least to an extent? Even if you think some of us exaggerate it a little? And why people would want to challenge your realm or do something to at least change the power structure of how the island works some; make things less rigid and hegemonic?
Honestly?
Correction: It's been bad for the realms and nobles that challenged the League bloc and lost. I suggest that they don't lose next time. That should help. ;)
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There go both of my characters on Atamara. Where to send them?
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I think people have been using "peace and stagnation" as a boogeyman. Atamara has not been at peace since Enri started as General, many years ago. Since then we've seen stagnation on EC, FEI, and BT (post Daimon invasion), but not AT. People keep crying about the sky falling after every peace treaty, but soon enough another war starts.
Yes, the League bloc keeps winning wars. Yes, its leadership ruthlessly goes after any perceived threats and roots them out. Yes, the League has been ganged up on with superior numbers and won anyway. Why should success be punished? Why should superior strategy and diplomacy be demonized?
Correction: It's been bad for the realms and nobles that challenged the League bloc and lost. I suggest that they don't lose next time. That should help. ;)
The "League" bloc became what it is now because of Darka. It was not YOUR superior strategy, tactics or whatever you claim you did. WE made you.
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Characters sent to Beluaterra and Far East respectively. Have fun with the after war peace party.
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The "League" bloc became what it is now because of Darka. It was not YOUR superior strategy, tactics or whatever you claim you did. WE made you.
u so mad. ;)
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u so mad. ;)
Please don't say that... ever...
You remind me of the arrogant idiot in my IT class who said that because he used the unbalanced nature of the infantry general in command and conquer generals: zero hour to win against everyone else... then said u mad bro for hours afterwards like he had won the superbowl.
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WE made you.
Quite true. Only a strong villain can emphasize the significance of a strong Hero. Thanks for being a super villain.
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Well, Skiarxon do have a point there. If Darka would have not came to aid, Tara would be long time gone... and even CE could have been taken down by Southeners. But back then... it looked good and Tarzans were good guys who fought with big heart. Later they grow too big, use spies... and i guess same goes with CE.
This time we thought it could good to try out balance things, but as we know, with poor results :)
But war is still going... Atleast some of us will have fun times for a while... After that, i doubt there is nobody who could realistically challenge CE & Tara... and they dictate what happens... but such is life. Big boys play and small boys are the toys.
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Please don't say that... ever...
You remind me of the arrogant idiot in my IT class who said that because he used the unbalanced nature of the infantry general in command and conquer generals: zero hour to win against everyone else... then said u mad bro for hours afterwards like he had won the superbowl.
Sorry. Skiarxon has been a bad influence on me. ;D
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I think people have been using "peace and stagnation" as a boogeyman. Atamara has not been at peace since Enri started as General, many years ago. Since then we've seen stagnation on EC, FEI, and BT (post Daimon invasion), but not AT. People keep crying about the sky falling after every peace treaty, but soon enough another war starts.
Yes, the League bloc keeps winning wars. Yes, its leadership ruthlessly goes after any perceived threats and roots them out. Yes, the League has been ganged up on with superior numbers and won anyway. Why should success be punished? Why should superior strategy and diplomacy be demonized?
Correction: It's been bad for the realms and nobles that challenged the League bloc and lost. I suggest that they don't lose next time. That should help. ;)
Success shouldn't be punished, it is true. My main concern with the power structure on AT is the way that all those wars you speak of have a way of becoming one-sided affairs as soon as CE chooses sides. It's just too bad that two realms that want to fight each other end up having to worry less about each other and more about who CE and Tara will side with. This ends up discouraging conflict for everyone but CE and Tara. No one wants to give CE an excuse to come after them so everyone tiptoes quietly around hoping they don't give CE any excuses until someone else screws up and ends up on the executioner's block.
I don't know, maybe after this things will actually change for the better. With virtually no credible threats left out there other than Suville, perhaps Silverfire will turn out to be right after all and tensions will rise between members of the CE bloc. That would, frankly, be a wonderful thing.
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If player of Merlin spreads falsehood on forums, then player of Jason will counter him (if he gets enough time from real life).
If Merlin needs peace, then probably he should start let others live in peace. It was him who was planting bomb in my pretty house :'(
That's what you don't understand. I am NOT spreading falsehoods. If you want to believe my character is lying, then do so all you want.
All you have is a list of letters taken way out of context. You don't understand the discussions taking place at the time or how they are meant to be received.
*I* as a player am trying to be 100% honest when I say that my character had ZERO intention for CE to be harmed in any way with his actions. Letters of his may make this "look" untrue when taken out of context, but I am telling you the truth. Merlin lied out of his ass to get people to believe what he wants them to believe or to join him. This also means that he sent drastically different letters to the different rulers on Atamara. Each ruler received a different tactic to try and get them to join his empire. The only people who received a fully "truthful" version of this tale were his allies, (CE, Tara, Talerium, Strombran).
The entire point of this was not a betrayal but to establish the diplomatic framework for different warfare as established before. Merlin's character prohibits him from EVER fighting CE. Merlin wanted Coria to grow stronger and to do so without coming into conflict with CE. Now, his next diplomatic actions wouldn't have been necessarily supported by CE, because he wanted to fight Rieleston, but they also wouldn't have been explicitly opposed by CE. There are only two reasons that CE would not want Coria to fight Rieleston: 1. They don't want Coria to get stronger, 2. They want Rieleston to be their newest puppet in the north. This circumstance was to give Merlin a way to maneuver the political situation whereby Coria could fight a war against Rieleston and CE wouldn't interfere. Thus, Coria moves up to a fourth duchy and is now just as strong as Tara.
It is IMPOSSIBLE for you to tell ME what my "intentions" are. You don't know. So, don't call me a liar for saying that when you don't know what they are, and that I'm misrepresenting things. Coria would never fight CE under Merlin's rule, and any careful examination of even all of the letters you'd read would make this clear. Once you lock Merlin into a public statement regarding his policy he will stand by it completely. To go against any public statement would deprive him of any honor. Yet, all of his public statements were simply disregarded. Merlin publicly stated on multiple occasions that he would NEVER under ANY CIRCUMSTANCE come into conflict with CE while he ruled Coria.
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That's what you don't understand. I am NOT spreading falsehoods. If you want to believe my character is lying, then do so all you want.
All you have is a list of letters taken way out of context. You don't understand the discussions taking place at the time or how they are meant to be received.
*I* as a player am trying to be 100% honest when I say that my character had ZERO intention for CE to be harmed in any way with his actions. Letters of his may make this "look" untrue when taken out of context, but I am telling you the truth. Merlin lied out of his ass to get people to believe what he wants them to believe or to join him. This also means that he sent drastically different letters to the different rulers on Atamara. Each ruler received a different tactic to try and get them to join his empire. The only people who received a fully "truthful" version of this tale were his allies, (CE, Tara, Talerium, Strombran).
The entire point of this was not a betrayal but to establish the diplomatic framework for different warfare as established before. Merlin's character prohibits him from EVER fighting CE. Merlin wanted Coria to grow stronger and to do so without coming into conflict with CE. Now, his next diplomatic actions wouldn't have been necessarily supported by CE, because he wanted to fight Rieleston, but they also wouldn't have been explicitly opposed by CE. There are only two reasons that CE would not want Coria to fight Rieleston: 1. They don't want Coria to get stronger, 2. They want Rieleston to be their newest puppet in the north. This circumstance was to give Merlin a way to maneuver the political situation whereby Coria could fight a war against Rieleston and CE wouldn't interfere. Thus, Coria moves up to a fourth duchy and is now just as strong as Tara.
It is IMPOSSIBLE for you to tell ME what my "intentions" are. You don't know. So, don't call me a liar for saying that when you don't know what they are, and that I'm misrepresenting things. Coria would never fight CE under Merlin's rule, and any careful examination of even all of the letters you'd read would make this clear. Once you lock Merlin into a public statement regarding his policy he will stand by it completely. To go against any public statement would deprive him of any honor. Yet, all of his public statements were simply disregarded. Merlin publicly stated on multiple occasions that he would NEVER under ANY CIRCUMSTANCE come into conflict with CE while he ruled Coria.
Nah bro Merlin liar backstabber.... u so mad 8)
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Nah bro Merlin liar backstabber.... u so mad 8)
Would you guys quit being jackasses for once...
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Would you guys quit being jackasses for once...
You weren't even being spoken to.
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Would you guys quit being jackasses for once...
The end of jackassery on Atamara could bring about the end of Atamara though!
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The end of jackassery on Atamara could bring about the end of Atamara though!
lol +1
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You weren't even being spoken to.
So? He's right.
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Would you guys quit being jackasses for once...
I was being sarcastic.... (ie. imitating the behavior of GoldPanda and Elegant).
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I was being sarcastic.... (ie. imitating the behavior of GoldPanda and Elegant).
Sorry then, the sarcasm didn't come over well in text form.
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Sorry then, the sarcasm didn't come over well in text form.
It never does.
Though GoldPanda (the Kinsey family) is usually jovial or sarcastic. It took me a while to understand, but I'd say he's pretty good about not being serious when he's a jerk... if that makes sense.
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The purpose of sarcasm is usually to mock someone, and though it is very suiting for certain real life situations, I don't see how it means you're trying to offend any less. It's not debating because it doesn't attack the argument, it just an attempt to make someone look amusingly foolish and discredit what they say through it. I think it is against the spirit of a friendly discussion on an OOC forum. Sarcasm fits much better IC where nobles try to offend eachothers.
Now as for the "peace as a boogeyman"; I agree. Atamara has in my opinion been very entertaining these past few years, and there's no real reason to expect anything else. I think what people are afraid of is the fact that whether future wars will be fun for them or not is out of their hands, a fear that the central alliance will be able to dictate which wars will be balanced and which simply end before they start. And since because both IC (empire trying to widen its influence) and OOC (bring entertainment to own players) it makes a great deal of sense for the Cagil to meddle, I think this fear is reasonable.
Nobody, obviously, knows what exactly is going to happen, I just hope that if we end up in a position where the Empire ends up being a "peace keeping organization", the players within it will decide to create something fun for the whole island rather than try get as high as possible on the ladder of winning in an unwinnable game. And before someone says something, no it's not the Empire's duty to try create fun for others, it's just me hoping.
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And before someone says something, no it's not the Empire's duty to try create fun for others, it's just me hoping.
If the Empire gets in a position where they effectively have veto power over any diplomacy or war that happens on the continent, then I'd say yes, it is absolutely their duty to try to create fun for others.
Sort of a "you bought it, now you have to manage it" type deal.
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If the Empire gets in a position where they effectively have veto power over any diplomacy or war that happens on the continent, then I'd say yes, it is absolutely their duty to try to create fun for others.
Sort of a "you bought it, now you have to manage it" type deal.
I have to agree. All rulers when they become ruler are informed quite clearly that they have a responsibility to ensure a fun environment for their players. If you become ruler of an entire continent you have an even greater responsibility.
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I have to agree. All rulers when they become ruler are informed quite clearly that they have a responsibility to ensure a fun environment for their players. If you become ruler of an entire continent you have an even greater responsibility.
At least they are sharing cool Lion banners to every new realm, seems to be the new fun thing to do on Atamara.
Lets all make Lion banners!
(http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/6439/lioncarelia.png)
There Carelia is ready!
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Noooo... not that !
There you can find out the truth :http://www.hartwall.fi/fi/juomat/tuoteryhmat/oluet/karjala (http://www.hartwall.fi/fi/juomat/tuoteryhmat/oluet/karjala)
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Noooo... not that !
There you can find out the truth :http://www.hartwall.fi/fi/juomat/tuoteryhmat/oluet/karjala (http://www.hartwall.fi/fi/juomat/tuoteryhmat/oluet/karjala)
This is the English translation provided by Google. I have highlighted a few things I find funny considering the situation on Atamara:
Karelia is a gold-colored, richly foaming, strong lager. Its rich malt and selected hops aromas finishing Karelia high-quality beer that tastes for non-fraudulent friends who require olueltaan plenty of character. Karelia is heavily involved in the events, which also need plenty of character, such as in ice hockey.
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Noooo... not that !
There you can find out the truth :http://www.hartwall.fi/fi/juomat/tuoteryhmat/oluet/karjala (http://www.hartwall.fi/fi/juomat/tuoteryhmat/oluet/karjala)
:o
What? ...... I want to drink that! my Kindom for that drink! >:(
The only one from there that gets to my country is Heineken :'(
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:o
What? ...... I want to drink that! my Kindom for that drink! >:(
Maybe you'd also enjoy the wall decoration (http://lilwolf.biz/temp/carelia.jpg) I inherited from my grandmother when she died? :)
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Maybe you'd also enjoy the wall decoration (http://lilwolf.biz/temp/carelia.jpg) I inherited from my grandmother when she died? :)
:o is more amazing than BM thong!
(http://www.voxy.co.nz/files/imagecache/article_large/files/shut-up-and-take-my-money.jpg)
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Maybe you'd also enjoy the wall decoration (http://lilwolf.biz/temp/carelia.jpg) I inherited from my grandmother when she died? :)
That's not seriously your grandma's, right?
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I'm sure that she made it.
Karjala or Carelia/Karelia is a part of Finland: I added couple of links where you can read something in english if you are interested what is Carelia and their banner.
http://flagspot.net/flags/fi-k.html (http://flagspot.net/flags/fi-k.html)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karelia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karelia)
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I never knew that Carelia was based off that. That's extremely interesting. And after seeing that, yes I believe her grandma owned it too.
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Perhaps King Wintermute liked a lot of that beer or had relatives from Carelia.
I was honoured to play with king Wintermute. He was a good King and friend.
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To be honest, I've always wondered if the Cagilan Empire was based on some sort of group of finnish gamers due to the fact that the Cagilan heraldry is the finnish national herald, Tara's is the one the planned "Finnish Kingdom" would have had, and Carelia's is what has been said it is. Oh and I think Coria has the lion too, but obviously that fits the whole "Empire" thing.
But yeah, the beer Karjala (Carelia) is awful, and only those who think Carlsberg is the best beer in the world should ever drink it.
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I'm sure that she made it.
Karjala or Carelia/Karelia is a part of Finland: I added couple of links where you can read something in english if you are interested what is Carelia and their banner.
http://flagspot.net/flags/fi-k.html (http://flagspot.net/flags/fi-k.html)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karelia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karelia)
Doesn't Russia have Karelia now? Or parts of it, at least....
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To be honest, I've always wondered if the Cagilan Empire was based on some sort of group of finnish gamers due to the fact that the Cagilan heraldry is the finnish national herald, Tara's is the one the planned "Finnish Kingdom" would have had, and Carelia's is what has been said it is. Oh and I think Coria has the lion too, but obviously that fits the whole "Empire" thing.
But yeah, the beer Karjala (Carelia) is awful, and only those who think Carlsberg is the best beer in the world should ever drink it.
CE's founding players were mostly finnish.
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As I understand it, Atamara is still half-dominated by Finnish players. There are some very long-time players who are Finns. I may be mistaken, but I believe there's at least two rulers on AT right now who are Finns and have been around practically forever.
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Sordnaz is Finnish, right? And the other would be Ottar? Am I right?
My other guess would be KK.
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Sordnaz is Finnish, right? And the other would be Ottar? Am I right?
My other guess would be KK.
Or captain.
Those are the 4 long-time rulers.
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I was looking at current rulers.
I don't know Captain.
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I was looking at current rulers.
I don't know Captain.
Captain is a current ruler. (aka. Aldarion of Talerum)
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As far as i know, current rulers at AT who are finns are Ottar and KK.
There was time at early Atamara when Eston, Carelia, CE, Darka and Tara had finnish rulers... but thats a long story why it was so... and no, there was no clanning or that kind of poop... We were just a bit ahead on strategic planning and activity and communication back then :)
-KK
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You're talking about yourself in the third person, jaune....
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Yeah, that what age brings you when you get old...
-KK Jaune Kosunen Cosula Petteri
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Captain is a current ruler. (aka. Aldarion of Talerum)
OHHHHHHHHHHHHHH this explains several things.
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Atamara is a Finnish run conspiracy???
No wonder the whole damn thing locks up all the time! Ever hear of the Winter War? Freaking quagmire.
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Atamara is a Finnish run conspiracy???
No wonder the whole damn thing locks up all the time! Ever hear of the Winter War? Freaking quagmire.
Wait, you guys didn't realize this? ??? I thought it was common knowledge that Talerium, CE, Tara, Darka, and BoM are actually all Finnish buddies who are just play-fighting. I mean, just look at the battlefield banter:
Enri: Excellent day for a battle, sir!
Kende: Quite! Quite! Join me for a spot of Karjalanpiirakat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karjalanpiirakat) afterward?
Enri: I do believe I shall my good sir!
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Wait, you guys didn't realize this? ??? I thought it was common knowledge that Talerium, CE, Tara, Darka, and BoM are actually all Finnish buddies who are just play-fighting. I mean, just look at the battlefield banter:
Enri: Excellent day for a battle, sir!
Kende: Quite! Quite! Join me for a spot of Karjalanpiirakat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karjalanpiirakat) afterward?
Enri: I do believe I shall my good sir!
The whole damn war was one huge trolling of Kerwin!?!?
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Atamara is a Finnish run conspiracy???
No wonder the whole damn thing locks up all the time! Ever hear of the Winter War? Freaking quagmire.
Hello and welcome to the last seven years of Atamara.
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Atamara is a Finnish run conspiracy???
No wonder the whole damn thing locks up all the time! Ever hear of the Winter War? Freaking quagmire.
Finland = Darka, CE & Boys = Soviet Union
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_War
:P
-Jaune
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Wait, you guys didn't realize this? ??? I thought it was common knowledge that Talerium, CE, Tara, Darka, and BoM are actually all Finnish buddies who are just play-fighting.
Johnny isn't Finnish, he's Swedish!
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Does anyone remember Andrew?
Where he was from?
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The whole damn war was one huge trolling of Kerwin!?!?
Well of course, perth - why do you suppose Kerwin was exiled? :P
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Well of course, perth - why do you suppose Kerwin was exiled? :P
I figured it was because he was friends with Merlin personally....
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Does anyone remember Andrew?
Where he was from?
Wasn't he from the UK?
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I figured it was because he was friends with Merlin personally....
Nah, it's because Jason and Ottar are jealous of Kerwin's sexy calves.
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Johnny isn't Finnish, he's Swedish!
THAT'S RIGHT! I forgot! I'm wondering when his next yearly OOC speech will roll around. They're usually pretty interesting for me as he often does describe a few things in Swedish culture.
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Not dead yet!
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Finland = Darka, CE & Boys = Soviet Union
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_War
:P
-Jaune
I don't remember Finland invading and raiding Russian countryside. :o
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I don't remember Finland invading and raiding Russian countryside. :o
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuation_war
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And it was Russian whi did start that war, just like Northern Horde, Nice try anyway...
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This is so off-topic its crazy.
Can we discuss how the stupid vikings and mercenaries are marching towards my character's city?
Oh, and Coria's military is apparently incompetent now...
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I noticed the latter as well. Curious to see how this turns out...
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That's what happens when you replace a Kinsey with... Well, anyone.
Solution: Make me your marshal 8)
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That's what happens when you replace a Kinsey with... Well, anyone.
Ya no joke. He's the only spy I'd ever not only tolerate but also give full control of my armies. lmao.
Wait, are you actually good at leading an army? I need a good marshal....need to replace the current one.
You've got the appointment tomorrow if so.
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Can we discuss how the stupid vikings and mercenaries are marching towards my character's city?
Hey Coria, remember that guy Kerwin who really really wanted you to join the War on the North's side and stuck his neck for you and got his ass burned for trying to be your friend and help you out?
This is what happens when you ignore him and then your "friends" take him out of power: No one to keep the angry mercs and vikings away from you.
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Hey Coria, remember that guy Kerwin who really really wanted you to join the War on the North's side and stuck his neck for you and got his ass burned for trying to be your friend and help you out?
This is what happens when you ignore him and then your "friends" take him out of power: No one to keep the angry mercs and vikings away from you.
I have two words to describe that entire situation. "Poetic," and "Justice." ;)
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Hey Coria, remember that guy Kerwin who really really wanted you to join the War on the North's side and stuck his neck for you and got his ass burned for trying to be your friend and help you out?
This is what happens when you ignore him and then your "friends" take him out of power: No one to keep the angry mercs and vikings away from you.
Hey Kerwin, remember that guy Merlin who offered you really good cookies and wanted you to join the War on Coria's side and stuck his neck out for you and got his ass burned for trying to be your friend and help you out?
This is what happens when you ignore his warnings saying that the cookies were hallucinagenic and that Darka and BoM really did have hidden armies which weren't helping you while your nation was getting burned. Then your "friends" let your realm burn: No one to keep the angry secessionists from gobbling you up now.
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Hey Kerwin, remember that guy Merlin who offered you really good cookies and wanted you to join the War on Coria's side and stuck his neck out for you and got his ass burned for trying to be your friend and help you out?
This is what happens when you ignore his warnings saying that the cookies were hallucinagenic and that Darka and BoM really did have hidden armies which weren't helping you while your nation was getting burned. Then your "friends" let your realm burn: No one to keep the angry secessionists from gobbling you up now.
Kerwin Montague and Merlin Capulet, it seems.
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I think I'm having deja vu... I think we've been here before.
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I think I'm having deja vu... I think we've been here before.
History does tend to repeat itself.
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Ya no joke. He's the only spy I'd ever not only tolerate but also give full control of my armies. lmao.
Wait, are you actually good at leading an army? I need a good marshal....need to replace the current one.
You've got the appointment tomorrow if so.
I certainly used to be, when I was first active on Dwilight and BT and before I got into the business of ruling realms (which I'm now out of - hooray!). That said I'm off on a business trip next week, which would make the timing of 'tomorrow' rather poor. Also, I'd rather earn that position IG than on the basis of this OOC conversation of course.
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History does tend to repeat itself.
And, naturally, this time it's as farce.
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Also, I'd rather earn that position IG than on the basis of this OOC conversation of course.
That is a given. Plus, I don't get to choose. It's our General. For the most part.
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Hey Coria, remember that guy Kerwin who really really wanted you to join the War on the North's side and stuck his neck for you and got his ass burned for trying to be your friend and help you out?
This is what happens when you ignore him and then your "friends" take him out of power: No one to keep the angry mercs and vikings away from you.
This is what happens when you make the wrong decisions and not even YOUR General trusts you anymore.
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Correction: Our General doesn't trust our allies. (And is actually on-call these days and tried to sign in at 5am, but couldn't. Both myself and GoldPanda told him not to lose his job over BM.)
Anyway, yeah... talk about awkward timing and situations. I want to take over, but my other character is the Barony Marshal. I would have expected at least common sense to prevail and people to see us losing battles in Belegmon and Anost as an indication to get their butts over to Barad Falas. Even Ravendon looks incompetent because he willingly gave up 90% of the power he had and now can't deal with problems the same way he used to.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuation_war
Finnish side:
63,204 dead or missing
Soviet side:
265,000 dead or missing
Soviet Victory
Good enough for me! And I think the League can do better than a 4:1 death ratio.
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Mayby we should sign the peace... you got Carelia already :P
-jaune
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Finnish side:
63,204 dead or missing
Soviet side:
265,000 dead or missing
Soviet Victory
Good enough for me! And I think the League can do better than a 4:1 death ratio.
That sounds like a pretty standard soviet death ratio...
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Darka and BoM raided Coria back when Eston and Coria were "friends" as well.
That is why Eston will never be a Great Power, no matter how many regions or nobles it has. It can't stand up for itself, and gives passage rights to their "friends" so that they can raid and loot Eston's other "friends".
Eston is basically the battered wife of the Northern Alliance.
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Darka and BoM raided Coria back when Eston and Coria were "friends" as well.
That is why Eston will never be a Great Power, no matter how many regions or nobles it has. It can't stand up for itself, and gives passage rights to their "friends" so that they can raid and loot Eston's other "friends".
Eston is basically the battered wife of the Northern Alliance.
Seeing as Eston's entire leadership just changed, I find it hard to suggest that they will "never" be a Great Power for the listed reasons.
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Also, the Barony's current trip to Coria didn't technically pass through Eston. I think Saradic was still Estonite when we went through, but it soon changed to Rieleston and then Lyonesse. After that, we went through a region that was rogue at the time (killing a whole bunch of Lyonesse troops) and then through Darka-owned lands.
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This is what happens when you ignore his warnings saying that the cookies were hallucinagenic and that Darka and BoM really did have hidden armies which weren't helping you while your nation was getting burned. Then your "friends" let your realm burn: No one to keep the angry secessionists from gobbling you up now.
Hidden armies. When will you ever stop this silly propaganda? Yeah we had "hidden ex Estonites" and newcomers in our backpack... for the love of the banana do you ever read the battle reports?cause apparently you don't. In fact i highly doubt BoM brought forth in the last fights more than she brought before.Darka had no hidden armies, you may repeat it as many times as you please...but we simply hadn't.In fact we lost tons of players in this stupid war.
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Another problem with Eston was communication. It was at best tricky and slow... and often ended up arguing what to do and what not to do.
We didnt have such authority over foreign armies as Enri have on opposite side. I'm jelaous about that.
I can smell great battle coming soon... exciting times!
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York homes are made of solid iron, Minas Leon just can't seem to break into more than one or two per day. :P
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Another problem with Eston was communication. It was at best tricky and slow... and often ended up arguing what to do and what not to do.
We didnt have such authority over foreign armies as Enri have on opposite side. I'm jelaous about that.
I can smell great battle coming soon... exciting times!
I sure hope so, would be the first time my chars (brothers) will actually fight alongside each other. + one of them soon has to go to his "normal" job rather than fighting, so it'll prob be the last chance for a while as well.
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Hidden armies. When will you ever stop this silly propaganda? Yeah we had "hidden ex Estonites" and newcomers in our backpack... for the love of the banana do you ever read the battle reports?cause apparently you don't. In fact i highly doubt BoM brought forth in the last fights more than she brought before.Darka had no hidden armies, you may repeat it as many times as you please...but we simply hadn't.In fact we lost tons of players in this stupid war.
The Barony actually is bringing a stronger army than they did during the Hammarsett war, but that isn't because we didn't want to... It's because we couldn't. Many characters just stayed at home. We've gained a bunch of nobles recently and people have started marching again.
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The Barony actually is bringing a stronger army than they did during the Hammarsett war, but that isn't because we didn't want to... It's because we couldn't. Many characters just stayed at home. We've gained a bunch of nobles recently and people have started marching again.
Eston's surrender rejuvenated many of the bored/unresponsive tendencies in both the Barony and Darkan armies. Just goes to show how much more motivated you get to fight a war when its on YOUR borders and not your friend's. Eston's urgency and desperation throughout the war always was on a different level than Darka and BoM and was one source of conflict between the allies because they simply weren't as worried about things as we were, because it was our regions and future on the line at any given moment, not theirs.
Now it is, and they are a lot more pumped up to fight the war.
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Eston's surrender rejuvenated many of the bored/unresponsive tendencies in both the Barony and Darkan armies. Just goes to show how much more motivated you get to fight a war when its on YOUR borders and not your friend's. Eston's urgency and desperation throughout the war always was on a different level than Darka and BoM and was one source of conflict between the allies because they simply weren't as worried about things as we were, because it was our regions and future on the line at any given moment, not theirs.
Now it is, and they are a lot more pumped up to fight the war.
That's not entirely true, will explain later.
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There is a lot of truth in what Perth said. We also got a lot of refugees, and new nobles. Word of the treaty forced on Eston attracted quite a few people interested in a "last stand" against the Empire.
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Indirik, if that's the case... R.i.p Eston
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Hidden armies. When will you ever stop this silly propaganda? Yeah we had "hidden ex Estonites" and newcomers in our backpack... for the love of the banana do you ever read the battle reports?cause apparently you don't. In fact i highly doubt BoM brought forth in the last fights more than she brought before.Darka had no hidden armies, you may repeat it as many times as you please...but we simply hadn't.In fact we lost tons of players in this stupid war.
Darka spreads propaganda against CE all the time. It's not so great to be on the receiving end, is it?
Before Eston's surrender, Darka was fielding ~30k CS, and Eston was fielding ~20k CS at most.
After Eston's surrender, I've seen Darka field as much as 50k CS.
Unless every single Estonite knight joined Darka while I wasn't looking, Darka was withholding reserves from Eston.
And don't tell me the difference in CS was from new nobles. They can't recruit that many men.
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Darka spreads propaganda against CE all the time. It's not so great to be on the receiving end, is it?
Before Eston's surrender, Darka was fielding ~30k CS, and Eston was fielding ~20k CS at most.
After Eston's surrender, I've seen Darka field as much as 50k CS.
Unless every single Estonite knight joined Darka while I wasn't looking, Darka was withholding reserves from Eston.
And don't tell me the difference in CS was from new nobles. They can't recruit that many men.
That depends, are they newly created, or did they emigrate? Also, I will point out that my brand new, wet-behind-the-ears Cagilan noble with all of 20 honor and 4 prestige is, as of this very moment, fielding 45 archers with 527 CS, and that's not even as many men as he can field at his maximum (the military advisor says he could recruit up to 50). If they're not trying to field Cavalry or SF, new nobles can recruit a plenty big unit, provided they are well funded enough to do it. And Darka's got more than enough funds. As far as character numbers go, you can plainly see a recent spike in Darka's numbers. They went from 74 five weeks ago to a high of 88 about two weeks ago. As of the most recent statistics available, they still have 86.
I sincerely doubt Darka ever kept anything back on purpose; it's simply human nature to lose interest in a war when you're routinely marching 5 days to even get to the front, as Darka was when they were fighting in Hammarsett. My bet is that some players were simply apathetic and didn't bother to put in much effort to march with the army or recruit up to their maximum due to the tedium of the experience for much of the war. Perth is right; the situation now that Eston is defeated is much more urgent and close to home, and Darkan players are responding by being more engaged. And then there is the increased emigration/character creation for the reasons others have specified, and those characters are surely engaged or they wouldn't have come in the first place.
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The only thing Darka held back was our home army. You know, the courtiers and such that keep our regions running and free of monsters. That army is on the front lines now and it brings an extra 10k CS or so since they've pretty much maxed out on recruiting.
If you call that holding back from your allies then every realm in guilty of it.
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Darka spreads propaganda against CE all the time. It's not so great to be on the receiving end, is it?
Before Eston's surrender, Darka was fielding ~30k CS, and Eston was fielding ~20k CS at most.
After Eston's surrender, I've seen Darka field as much as 50k CS.
Unless every single Estonite knight joined Darka while I wasn't looking, Darka was withholding reserves from Eston.
And don't tell me the difference in CS was from new nobles. They can't recruit that many men.
LoL really now? First you say it's not so great to receive propaganda then trying to support the hidden army nonsense...makes sense sure.
Around 5 or 6 Estonites join and i m not even counting the Agnilar Lord in those. Also we had many newcomers as players of Darka tried to recruit through the game. Also new characters depending on what choices on the age you ll make can receive a unit of 40 men...My char Miseriocrdia died on a duel, the next day i created a new one and she could carry that ammount in infantry men.
Also when you gathered 3 realms in Nazamroth we called the Homeland forces, when you have a realm with many regions such army is handy and Darka has it.
So maybe i choose the wrong word, it's not even propaganda, just crap statements and deserve no further attenton i guess.
People learn to read the realm statistics and generally read the battle reports. Or else from Gold Pandas you will mostly look Sad Pandas when making such statements
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I know for a FACT that the Eston General and I were told by the Darkan General probably two months before Eston's surrender that they would only be able to committ 10k CS to our defense from that point on. I'm not sure what they ended up actually using, but that is what we were told.
Also, I'm not making accusations. But Darka and BoM are proving pretty successful (sans the most recent battle in Nazamroth) in the Nazamroth/Anost corridor since Eston's fall. Where was that kind of committment when Eston was still in it and fielding numbers? It seems if you were to take Darka/BoM's current actions PLUS Eston, some success could be had.
It really just comes down to, like I said, Darka not caring quite as much until Eston fell. Which is natural, I'm not saying that it isn't. You're more motivated to fight wars when its your neck on your line.
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I for one explicitly just joined Darka because it is a fight to the death and with those gold reserves and military discipline, that's guaranteed epicness. And I haven't been disappointed so far. :)
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I know for a FACT that the Eston General and I were told by the Darkan General probably two months before Eston's surrender that they would only be able to committ 10k CS to our defense from that point on. I'm not sure what they ended up actually using, but that is what we were told.
Also, I'm not making accusations. But Darka and BoM are proving pretty successful (sans the most recent battle in Nazamroth) in the Nazamroth/Anost corridor since Eston's fall. Where was that kind of committment when Eston was still in it and fielding numbers? It seems if you were to take Darka/BoM's current actions PLUS Eston, some success could be had.
It really just comes down to, like I said, Darka not caring quite as much until Eston fell. Which is natural, I'm not saying that it isn't. You're more motivated to fight wars when its your neck on your line.
Ok this is funny. How could we ever succeed on anything when Darka while i was General was bringing up to 30 k CS army to fight and we had to split it in two sending only half down to BoM and the rest up to Eston to defend Nazamroth? Ever thought of that?
We are fighting at our borders for the e to love of God , we don't have to move 10 regions to actually fight and we don't have to split forces anymore. Think before "accusing" .Eston always found ways to blame others for their issues.
Nothing changed.We still don't attack Talerium and we are no longer sending forces for stupid attacks down to Tara (yes that was absolutely stupid back then). It is only normal that our results are better. We are actually moving two or three regions max far from a city of ours, fully repaired, units paid and the fight comes to us, we no longer have to actually travel to find battles. Plus we have more nobles and they keep joining because since we are the target now we are also the fun part of Atamara.
You just don't take in consideration the whole picture here. Everytime we were marching, we had requests to send 10 to 15k to aid Eston, of course and it's not the same as now. Ever thought of that?
I don't know what you are trying to prove by saying Darka was reserving forces....Do you think we wanted Eston to surrender in the full term of surrendering? Anyone who would do that would be an idiot because it would be obvious as it is now that the last target would actually be Darka.
Darka is strong in defending and Darka is also strong when fighting near it's borders.It is rather simple.
If Darka hadn't the Cantril restricition in this war the North would be a winner, i would bet my hand on it.
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Ok this is funny. How could we ever succeed on anything when Darka while i was General was bringing up to 30 k CS army to fight and we had to split it in two sending only half down to BoM and the rest up to Eston to defend Nazamroth? Ever thought of that?
We are fighting at our borders for the e to love of God , we don't have to move 10 regions to actually fight and we don't have to split forces anymore. Think before "accusing" .Eston always found ways to blame others for their issues.
Nothing changed.We still don't attack Talerium and we are no longer sending forces for stupid attacks down to Tara (yes that was absolutely stupid back then). It is only normal that our results are better. We are actually moving two or three regions max far from a city of ours, fully repaired, units paid and the fight comes to us, we no longer have to actually travel to find battles. Plus we have more nobles and they keep joining because since we are the target now we are also the fun part of Atamara.
You just don't take in consideration the whole picture here. Everytime we were marching, we had requests to send 10 to 15k to aid Eston, of course and it's not the same as now. Ever thought of that?
I don't know what you are trying to prove by saying Darka was reserving forces....Do you think we wanted Eston to surrender in the full term of surrendering? Anyone who would do that would be an idiot because it would be obvious as it is now that the last target would actually be Darka.
Darka is strong in defending and Darka is also strong when fighting near it's borders.It is rather simple.
If Darka hadn't the Cantril restricition in this war the North would be a winner, i would bet my hand on it.
I think I explicitly said I wasn't accusing anyone of anything, just pointing out changes and interesting facts.
And I absolutely agree about the Cantril restriction. Kerwin bet the whole war on getting KK to let up on it.
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I think I explicitly said I wasn't accusing anyone of anything, just pointing out changes and interesting facts.
And I absolutely agree about the Cantril restriction. Kerwin bet the whole war on getting KK to let up on it.
I strongly disagree about Cantril. However there were 2 major points why The Northern Horde did fail.
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I strongly disagree about Cantril. However there were 2 major points why The Northern Horde did fail.
And i strongly disagree with you disagreeing :P
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I'm not yet calling it total fail... it aint over yet :)
-Jaune
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Minas Leon didn't keep York for long. :)
Have fun taking control of that starving city with 1% sympathy to your realm!