BattleMaster Community
BattleMaster => Locals => Dwilight => Topic started by: Telamon on April 27, 2013, 03:31:23 AM
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Salutations,
As a long time player freshly returning to the game, and to Dwilight, i have noticed some potential issues that i would like to voice and discuss regarding SA and the Theocracies.
This is a slightly edited complaint that i voiced earlier today, OOC and in the game. The forums are a more appropriate venue for this discussion, so I would like all your feedback regarding A: If alliance is indeed taking the fun out of the game for the majority of non-decision makers and B: If something should be done. Here is my complaint:
"Stagnant nations without a direct "goal" or "enemy" wither away as the new members, without regions/responsibility, get bored and leave. I wouldn't call the enemy we can't reach in the south an "enemy" as they can't really touch us, or we them. It's like Sweden having Australia as a blood enemy. It's silly.
I know we're all very comfortable here in the "north" with our super Theocracy Alliance, but at a certain point it defeats the purpose of the game for new players. This game is at it's best when you have smaller competitive realms – with intense team spirit – fighting passionately for reachable, common, goals. Goals that are inclusive and returns that are palpable for everyone.
As it is right now, we have a bunch of huge, bloated realms twiddling our thumbs in a huge "religious alliance" as the months pass by with the lords and leaders/dukes collecting huge tax returns. There is no intrigue – as any insurrection would be crushed immediately by the whole – all talk is directed toward keeping the "status quo" and in expanding the "faith" despite the fact that we can't expand our faith to certain nations without direct military force, or conversation kept between leaders.
Of course this is all obvious, but perhaps it hasn't been voiced. And if it has, then maybe i haven't heard it because my character is just a lowly knight.
This game, it is actually a game, would be a lot more fun if we actually fought and argued with each other. Power gaming as a huge mass of "believers" is not fun after your reach is expended."
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The game is designed to make you fight your neighbours and you can see this by checking the various limitations imposed upon it. If you have travelled far enough with your units, you probably know that it is impossible to attack a realm on the opposite side of your realm(well at least on Dwilight).
I've heard this 'small realms' idea numerous times but every time it came up people wanted this to be played out in game not oocly and I agree with the notion. However, so far I haven't seen anyone succeed on making it happen in gamely. To my eyes, there is a major problem with the idea.
BM is a game of player created history. People spend real life years to work on strengthening, expanding, and perfecting their realms. Some of them are of course more successful than others and as a result, some realms become massive in size, wealth, and power. With those come apathy, boredom, and stagnation. Unless those realms get aggressive expansionist rulers (or rulers who try to outwit his or her peers), they will become boring and people will start complaining.
As I see it, realms go through certain stages in BM. They start off small/weak/poor/vibrant -> medium/half assed/middle/still somewhat vibrant -> big/strong/wealthy/boring. More stable your realm becomes, more boring it.
Although they become boring and stagnant, people don't want their realm to be broken into bits because they have spent months or even years working on their realm. It is just like children spending their time to build a lego castle and debating if they should destroy it to make something else.
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SA does have a potential Northern Enemy in the form of Asylon. They've been known to cause trouble and that's useful. One problem is realms on Dwilight tend to try and completely destroy enemy realms. This wasn't typical of real medieval warfare. So if there's another war against Asylon I'd hope they leave Asylon alive.
I'm not too worried about excessive power consolidation. At some point inevitably Mathurin is going to die, or moreover his player is going to decide it's time to let him go. This will shake things up dramatically. Everyone and their mother is going to try and claim they're the new prophet.
The game is designed to make you fight your neighbours and you can see this by checking the various limitations imposed upon it. If you have travelled far enough with your units, you probably know that it is impossible to attack a realm on the opposite side of your realm(well at least on Dwilight).
I've heard this 'small realms' idea numerous times but every time it came up people wanted this to be played out in game not oocly and I agree with the notion. However, so far I haven't seen anyone succeed on making it happen in gamely. To my eyes, there is a major problem with the idea.
BM is a game of player created history. People spend real life years to work on strengthening, expanding, and perfecting their realms. Some of them are of course more successful than others and as a result, some realms become massive in size, wealth, and power. With those come apathy, boredom, and stagnation. Unless those realms get aggressive expansionist rulers (or rulers who try to outwit his or her peers), they will become boring and people will start complaining.
As I see it, realms go through certain stages in BM. They start off small/weak/poor/vibrant -> medium/half assed/middle/still somewhat vibrant -> big/strong/wealthy/boring. More stable your realm becomes, more boring it.
Although they become boring and stagnant, people don't want their realm to be broken into bits because they have spent months or even years working on their realm. It is just like children spending their time to build a lego castle and debating if they should destroy it to make something else.
I disagree. I often find small realms are just as dull because they lack the strength to risk a war. I think part of what gives us big powerful dull realms is the fact that most players seem to play romanticized nobles rather then historical nobles. Big realms form into alliances and all implicitly trust each other. In real medieval politics there was always suspicion even between supposedly allied nations.
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You may be right in regards to the interior drama of SA, however, the instigating reason i wrote this complaint was because the theocracies are now making peace with Asylon.
We mounted at least 26 nobles at the border from a variety of nations at against Asylon and the ruling decision makers decided to call it off right before the potential battle, as they could not find a "true reason to justify the battle".
The general nobility seemed very put off as they were unaware of peace negotiations and were ready for a battle they were waiting months for.
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But essentially you're saying we have to wait for Mathurin to die? A few hundred players waiting for one extraordinarily powerful character to die? That's crazy.
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It is true that Asylon is a potential enemy, but it is highly unlikely that they will mount an attack on either Niselur or Astrum in any capacity, with the other theocracies watching and waiting for that. It is likely that in the foreseeable future that outside intervention is not the force that will bring down the SA coalition at the very least.
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Asylon isn't an enemy if Astrum, the realm i am a part of, actively avoids battle and makes peace.
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You may be right in regards to the interior drama of SA, however, the instigating reason i wrote this complaint was because the theocracies are now making peace with Asylon.
We mounted at least 26 nobles at the border from a variety of nations at against Asylon and the ruling decision makers decided to call it off right before the potential battle, as they could not find a "true reason to justify the battle".
The general nobility seemed very put off as they were unaware of peace negotiations and were ready for a battle they were waiting months for.
Is that what happened? If that many people are pissed well there's your answer, start a rebellion over it! Destabilize Astrum and you're all set.
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But essentially you're saying we have to wait for Mathurin to die? A few hundred players waiting for one extraordinarily powerful character to die? That's crazy.
Particularly when there's actually no guarantee that he will. Death is still pretty much up to the player.
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Join D'Hara or Fissoa, problem solved.
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Join D'Hara or Fissoa, problem solved.
This isn't exactly just about me, i'm concerned about the overall gameplay for new players and everyone.
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Is that what happened? If that many people are pissed well there's your answer, start a rebellion over it! Destabilize Astrum and you're all set.
That would indeed be interesting! However, that number is including nobles of allied realms, and SA has taken too long to build what it has to let one of their main countries be destabilized by a small incident like this.
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This isn't exactly just about me, i'm concerned about the overall gameplay for new players and everyone.
Direct them to D'Hara or Fissoa.
The only place the northerners ever spread SA was to the North. Lurians brought it to Luria, and Marrocidians brought it to the West. Now there's the far South still... If you want to be pro-active for a change, organize an expedition, join the southern realms en-masse, and try to drive out the orvando-saxon heathens.
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Attributing any stagnation to Mathurin is simply misguided. He's not standing in the way of the kind of conflict being described here. Blame your ruler first and foremost.
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Direct them to D'Hara or Fissoa.
God, shut up. Can you avoid turning any thread into an extension of your own IC propaganda?
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That would indeed be interesting! However, that number is including nobles of allied realms, and SA has taken too long to build what it has to let one of their main countries be destabilized by a small incident like this.
I dunno, they didn't intervene on Iashalur and they had plenty of excuses. In Iashalur's case there wasn't really any potential for fallout afterwards but in Astrum any one of their duchies might splinter off.
Besides maybe Niselur's dudes could turn on Leopold. Not like they'd been friends for long.
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Anyone who finds his realm dull has only himself to blame for staying there. Join a more dynamic realm, and help it become stronger than the parent stagnant realm.
There is plenty of war on Dwilight, you just have to leave the peaceful sectors and head to them.
God, shut up. Can you avoid turning any thread into an extension of your own IC propaganda?
Screw you. He wants war. Which realms are fighting wars, and likely to keep on fighting for a while? D'Hara and Fissoa. Asylon's at war with a few people, but that war is dying out, and shows no signs of any meaningful continuation. I couldn't give a rat's ass whether he joins D'Hara or not.
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Attributing any stagnation to Mathurin is simply misguided. He's not standing in the way of the kind of conflict being described here. Blame your ruler first and foremost.
I'm not talking about the founder or a specific ruler, the problem is this strong peace between 5 huge realms and the social/political dynamic that is diminishing conflict on the island.
The solution that i would suggest would be for the players and leadership to encourage more authentic "medieval behavior" so the nations among the faith of SA can squabble and fight. However, the problem is that the religion has manifested itself into a nearly unshakeable mass political alliance that is killing the fun in the game. I want people to make plans to do something about it! Let's make things interesting!
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I'm not talking about the founder or a specific ruler, the problem is this strong peace between 5 huge realms and the social/political dynamic that is diminishing conflict on the island.
The solution that i would suggest would be for the players and leadership to encourage more authentic "medieval behavior" so the nations among the faith of SA can squabble and fight. However, the problem is that the religion has manifested itself into a nearly unshakeable mass political alliance that is killing the fun in the game. I want people to make plans to do something about it! Let's make things interesting!
Perhaps i will, perhaps not.
I'm not just talking about myself. I want the members of SA who feel the same way, or don't, to voice their opinions.
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I'm not talking about the founder or a specific ruler, the problem is this strong peace between 5 huge realms and the social/political dynamic that is diminishing conflict on the island.
The solution that i would suggest would be for the players and leadership to encourage more authentic "medieval behavior" so the nations among the faith of SA can squabble and fight. However, the problem is that the religion has manifested itself into a nearly unshakeable mass political alliance that is killing the fun in the game. I want people to make plans to do something about it! Let's make things interesting!
That's a perception problem. Morek and Libero don't have solid relations. Morek just recently founded Swordfell, but the church doesn't have solid relations with it. A score of realms have adopted the faith without being theocracies or having their diplomacy binded by the church.
As you said, these realms can't fight on the other side of the continent. Which also means that if they stagnate, they can't also stagnate the rest of the continent with them, and there remains plenty of other sectors to head towards. The South has been in constant war since quite a while, now...
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As you said, these realms can't fight on the other side of the continent. Which also means that if they stagnate, they can't also stagnate the rest of the continent with them, and there remains plenty of other sectors to head towards. The South has been in constant war since quite a while, now...
You're right, but i was not talking about the south. I'm talking about the stagnating SA and the north. I'm calling active discussion about the stagnation so the members of these huge realms might talk about it, and hopefully, change things.
Again, i'm not talking about where i personally might go, i'm talking about members who are invested in where they are. Yes, i'm probably going to leave sometime soon, but people should care to make the game more fun where they are anyway.
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Besides maybe Niselur's dudes could turn on Leopold. Not like they'd been friends for long.
Well Leopold had imported several nobles down from the south up to the north, so that was interesting to say the least. The general activity and messaging (especially when the newcomers arriving and political reshuffling) made things lively so as long as Leopold can keep things talking within the realm he should be relatively secure in the internal front.
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I'm not talking about the founder or a specific ruler, the problem is this strong peace between 5 huge realms and the social/political dynamic that is diminishing conflict on the island.
The solution that i would suggest would be for the players and leadership to encourage more authentic "medieval behavior" so the nations among the faith of SA can squabble and fight. However, the problem is that the religion has manifested itself into a nearly unshakeable mass political alliance that is killing the fun in the game. I want people to make plans to do something about it! Let's make things interesting!
Dude, I have been saying the same for quite some time now. No one in SA will listen. Nothing will change. Basically they want the entire map to be subservient to them or a colony of SA and only then will they fight amongst themselves (Like that will magically happen this decade) . For the last few years that Dwilight has existed SA has only been concerned with one thing, maintaining a safe status quo / converting new realms and killing off any potential conflict that is between the theocracies. Cookie cutter continents and cultures...
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Basically they want the entire map to be subservient to them or a colony of SA
Well duh... The nobles in SA want everyone to worship the Stars. It's not like it's a big secret.
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One thing that came to mind at the moment...it is just a thought that I think we can also debate:
with the current situation, can we consider SA to be a clan, or at least have a clan-like behavior? That without realising the players that command SA ended up creating a "religious clan"?
For instance, if you have this big block of allies in the north, that won't fight each other because of SA, that is not a really big problem but if you add other things like:
-If a realm(let´s say realm T) is declared enemy of the church or even if he declares war against one, he will be going to war against at least 4 other realms (5 or more if you count the SA based republics)
-So what can the realm do? I see two options: A-Find someone else to go to war or B-Join SA and be a part of the power block
Option A is harder if you are a realm that is next to one of the theocracies and there is no other potential enemy next to you.
So, the choice you have is to join the power block and have a far away on the other side of the continent enemy, that you will never attack.
Fun is ruined for the people of realm T. And no, moving to a different realm is not an option, as it was said, people tend to love their realm and want to stay in it.
Other thing is: Let´s say a noble wants to become ruler of Astrum. But he is tired of the church, and leave it or is expelled.
Now Astrum as a Theocracy won't allow him to grow as a noble, and the fun for him will be ruined.
Again, leaving the realm is not an option, as the player loves the realm he is in. What he does not like is the Church.
So, because of this, he has to remain inside SA to be able to grow and prosper inside a realm he loves.
With time he can(will) lose his interest on Dwilight and can even leave the game.
So considering that this situations, and the problems that this might bring, can that SA and the realms, structured themselves in a way a clan would?
A clan usually don't let anyone play, and grow inside a realm. SA realms let you do that, but you have to be part of SA.
The nobles of SA want everyone to worship the Stars, but at what point this becomes abusive and what is the limit of this? Where can we say: "No, wait, you are all going to far with the religion thing?"
Can we say that this ends up being a clan-like behavior? If yes, what can we do to prevent it, fix it or
I know people want and prefer to deal with things IC, but some times during a game, you have to take a step back, check the rules, and adapt them if necessary. This is after all a game, that is supposed to be fun for everyone.
(I also would like to make clear that I am no accusing anyone of being clan or anything, but these questions came to my mind and I think it would be good to this discussion to talk about this)
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If I remember it right having a clan is perfectly fine. So it is pointless to try and categorize the whole SA as a 'religious clan'. Also, if you put it that way, any group of theocracies will be considered as a clan. You can't control 145 people to do what you wish them to do. The only solution at this moment is time and with time people will eventually get bored of SA and move on to another realm. SA theocracies will eventually become hallow shells and collapse on their own.
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If I remember it right having a clan is perfectly fine. So it is pointless to try and categorize the whole SA as a 'religious clan'. Also, if you put it that way, any group of theocracies will be considered as a clan. You can't control 145 people to do what you wish them to do. The only solution at this moment is time and with time people will eventually get bored of SA and move on to another realm. SA theocracies will eventually become hallow shells and collapse on their own.
As I recall having an clan is not fine when you prevent other from having fun and enjoying the game, and as I said, why should someone leave the realm he love playing, with the nobles he like because of a religion. Sometimes simply moving to another realm is not an option, specially when the only realm options are realms your character considered enemies for other reasons aside from religion.
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As I recall having an clan is not fine when you prevent other from having fun and enjoying the game, and as I said, why should someone leave the realm he love playing, with the nobles he like because of a religion. Sometimes simply moving to another realm is not an option, specially when the only realm options are realms your character considered enemies for other reasons aside from religion.
The problem is the person you are mentioning is in a THEOCRACY meaning the whole political focus of the realm is its state religion. If he or she did not expect the religion would get in his or her way of success, the person should have joined a non-theocracy. Also, SA isn't really a problem for a personal success.
Let me tell you my personal story. My character Kihalin has been in Astrum for over 3.5 years and although he is a member of the church, he has never cared much about it. He was once questioned by one of the luminaries but he made it clear that he did not care about the church and only cared about Astrum. He became a duke eventually until I paused him to play in Luria. The point of the story is as long as you are in the church, they don't care if you are being faithful or not as long as you stay loyal to your realm. Theocracies don't stop their nobles from climbing up in the hierarchical chain as long as you are loyal.
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As I recall having an clan is not fine when you prevent other from having fun and enjoying the game, and as I said, why should someone leave the realm he love playing, with the nobles he like because of a religion. Sometimes simply moving to another realm is not an option, specially when the only realm options are realms your character considered enemies for other reasons aside from religion.
What's stopping you from moving to another continent?
And besides that, the issue regarding clans is if they actively exclude others, not if others exclude themselves by choice. Sanguis Astroism is open to anyone from another religion who wishes to convert, so even if you were to label it a clan, it is not one that would break the rule.
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I called this years ago and have been actively (at times) trying to encourage and build alternatives.
For example:
http://forum.battlemaster.org/index.php/topic,4129.0.html (http://forum.battlemaster.org/index.php/topic,4129.0.html)
and
http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Ashrak_Imperialist (http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Ashrak_Imperialist)
and another example that I will not share, and a fourth example that I haven't released yet and probably wont.
Basically, the end result is that they choose to keep it as it is and that's that. If you do not like it, find an alternative. If you can't, build one. I did! That's part of the beauty of BM. If you're strong willed enough you can do anything, even go against the grain!
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Dude, I have been saying the same for quite some time now. No one in SA will listen. Nothing will change. Basically they want the entire map to be subservient to them or a colony of SA and only then will they fight amongst themselves (Like that will magically happen this decade) . For the last few years that Dwilight has existed SA has only been concerned with one thing, maintaining a safe status quo / converting new realms and killing off any potential conflict that is between the theocracies. Cookie cutter continents and cultures...
So convert.
Every conversion is one more step to the post-hegemonic chaos of infighting.
It's not cookie cutter: no BM culture like SA has ever existed, and certainly never on such a scale as to dominate so vast an area as Dwilight.
Join! Join! Join!
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Other thing is: Let´s say a noble wants to become ruler of Astrum. But he is tired of the church, and leave it or is expelled.
Now Astrum as a Theocracy won't allow him to grow as a noble, and the fun for him will be ruined.
Again, leaving the realm is not an option, as the player loves the realm he is in. What he does not like is the Church.
So, because of this, he has to remain inside SA to be able to grow and prosper inside a realm he loves.
With time he can(will) lose his interest on Dwilight and can even leave the game.
This to me highlights the other side of the over all problem. People complain that players in power don't want to risk losing it. The only thing that allows this to be a problem is players not in power are afraid to try and overthrow them. People are quick to say "throw away an alliance", "risk the kingdom in a war". Well why don't YOU start a rebellion even if it's likely to fail? Secede a duchy even if your new realm will get crushed. It's hypocritical to claim the problem comes exclusively from the top down. If anything it's the people with less developed characters who should be taking the risks.
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The conservative trend of politics stems from this game's democratic nature. It's difficult to get a large group of people to agree on something that's new, unorthodox, risky or bold. Groups of three or more people have this problem; Battlemaster groups are composed of dozens. So of course this stagnation is merely the ultimate conclusion of design by committee.
In order to spice things up meaningfully the fundamentals of this game would have to change. More power would have to be given to individuals, and group consent would have to become a fashionable vice not an unwavering necessity for getting things done. Attempting to achieve anything under the current system is like rowing upstream, in that's it's difficult and requires constant effort and will be undone in less than a moment of laxness.
And it wouldn't hurt to add more virtual material incentives for the higher ups. Gold is nice and all but it's limits are stifling. More uses for gold, or additional rewards for successful intrigue (even in the form of e-peen metres, i.e. fame) would work. This isn't as big a problem as the aforementioned one but it's still a factor as realms that have it all have no reason to not lounge around stupidly.
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Terran declared war against a theocracy, fought a few battles, and then got peace, without ever being ganked. Did a superpower step in to reduce battles and fun? Yes. Was it SA? No. It was the Zuma.
SA only ever ganks people who go out of their way to get ganked.
Also, fun thing to put on your to-do list: become a duke in a non-theocracy, and secede to form a theocracy. Guaranteed win. Especially if you secede from the Lurias. :P
The north is only dull because it is simple-minded. "Oh, distance from capital is too big, morale damage is too high, thus we obviously can't do anything whatsoever!" There are a ton of things northern nobles could do, and some of them even include not actually migrating to another realm. Though seriously, you guys should really consider that.
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This to me highlights the other side of the over all problem. People complain that players in power don't want to risk losing it. The only thing that allows this to be a problem is players not in power are afraid to try and overthrow them. People are quick to say "throw away an alliance", "risk the kingdom in a war". Well why don't YOU start a rebellion even if it's likely to fail? Secede a duchy even if your new realm will get crushed. It's hypocritical to claim the problem comes exclusively from the top down. If anything it's the people with less developed characters who should be taking the risks.
I have to disagree with you. At least partialy. The ruler of a realm is also responsable to make sure everyone is having fun. At least once in a while he should check. He is the ruler after all, he should oversee everything that happens inside and outside the realm.
He should also take risks and help changes, specially when you don't have elections all the time.
The ruler need to take the responsability as well. Rebellions are hard to make, specially if you are a "less developed character" and you have players that don't want to lead, but still want to have fun, and don't want to move to another realm or continent where he does not know everyone and will have to start all over again. It is not that simple.
And about the Zuma, I find it odd that on a island that the SMA is enforced you have daimons.
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But you don't have a problem with monsters and undead? ???
SMA is not about recreating the exact circumstances of medieval earth.
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So convert.
Every conversion is one more step to the post-hegemonic chaos of infighting.
It's not cookie cutter: no BM culture like SA has ever existed, and certainly never on such a scale as to dominate so vast an area as Dwilight.
Join! Join! Join!
Not a chance in hell. I'd rather fight on the wrong side for the right ideals than to give into a form of playstyle I find so deeply wrong like the massive federations/alliances of SA. Its wrong wrong wrong and I will fight every day to see it stopped.
Moderator note: removing trolling and offtopic rant. If you want to tell people how great Asylon is, don't do it in an SA thread.
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Removing trolling. Resist the urge!
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Fight the good fight! Some day you may actually bash a hole in the brick wall with your forehead. Never surrender!
Your kingdom is incapable of fightings its own battles. You are cowards.
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I don't have a kingdom.
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But, really, why the hostility? I'm just trying to make a friendly little joke. No need to break out the insults.
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But you don't have a problem with monsters and undead? ???
SMA is not about recreating the exact circumstances of medieval earth.
I have a problem with them as well, just comenting specifically about the Zuma there.
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But, really, why the hostility? I'm just trying to make a friendly little joke. No need to break out the insults.
I called your realm a realm of cowards, its not an insult if its true. Realm/ kingdom/ theocracy who gives a flying. Your realm is a cowardly realm that needs a huge alliance to fight an equal sized kingdom. You needed Morek. And now you got Niselur and Corsanctum to fight us and you still can't break us.Thats not an insult, its a fact.
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In response to the "clanning" thing, there is no way that SA resembles anything involving a clan. SA is an entirely IC organization. It has nothing at all involving on OOC component. It also is in no way exclusive. Anyone can join and take part. Advancement is not that difficult. It is extremely easy to participate, and anyone who tries at all can help shape and steer it. It is one of the most non-exclusive IG groups I've seen.
Does it try to exert its influence and will on other groups on the island? Of course. But it does so exclusively IC, via IC means, motives, and methods.
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In response to the "clanning" thing, there is no way that SA resembles anything involving a clan. SA is an entirely IC organization. It has nothing at all involving on OOC component. It also is in no way exclusive. Anyone can join and take part. Advancement is not that difficult. It is extremely easy to participate, and anyone who tries at all can help shape and steer it. It is one of the most non-exclusive IG groups I've seen.
Does it try to exert its influence and will on other groups on the island? Of course. But it does so exclusively IC, via IC means, motives, and methods.
Yeah its not a clan... Get it right, its a cabal.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabal
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Yeah its not a clan... Get it right, its a cabal.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabal
Totally IC cabals created through years of awesome RP are not bad: they're like basically the point of the game.
Also: anybody who thinks you can't fight a theocracy is silly. You can't fight a theocracy as Asylon, because Asylon has catastrophically bad PR. Even then, though, a 1v1 Asylon/Astrum fight is far from unimaginable.
What you can't do is just randomly go to war for !@#$ reasons, be hyper-aggressive, and expect everybody else to go, "Yeah, we're chill with that."
You have to relate to SA somehow. There's absolutely nothing bad for the game about making it so that wars require a degree of diplomacy. Honestly, zero-diplomacy wars suck for the players involved (like Asylon's surprise attack on Terran, for example). They deny players the ability to have substantive plot-building or RP, and strip out the cultural development and social-relational component of the game.
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Totally IC cabals created through years of awesome RP are not bad: they're like basically the point of the game.
Also: anybody who thinks you can't fight a theocracy is silly. You can't fight a theocracy as Asylon, because Asylon has catastrophically bad PR. Even then, though, a 1v1 Asylon/Astrum fight is far from unimaginable.
What you can't do is just randomly go to war for !@#$ reasons, be hyper-aggressive, and expect everybody else to go, "Yeah, we're chill with that."
You have to relate to SA somehow. There's absolutely nothing bad for the game about making it so that wars require a degree of diplomacy. Honestly, zero-diplomacy wars suck for the players involved (like Asylon's surprise attack on Terran, for example). They deny players the ability to have substantive plot-building or RP, and strip out the cultural development and social-relational component of the game.
We aren't fighting the theocracies nor are we fighting SA. They are attacking us because we attacked Terran and they desire Itau to set up Iashular part II for Turin. Asylon did not start a fight with SA get that in your heads and stop the forum banter steering towards that. SA is the one currently involved in a hostile war against Asylon because of who we are and what we believe.
As for relating to SA, we tried that way before you. Asylon has always been SA friendly, it has issues with realms like Astrum putting their nose into every conflict we start because of ooc hatred.
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Man, you need to take a break and get away from things for a while. The only one around with OOC hatred here is you.
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Man, you need to take a break and get away from things for a while. The only one around with OOC hatred here is you.
Im not Asylon, im just one person. You are part of a single theocracy of multiple alliances. Who are aggressively attacking us.
Btw I threw in the 'ooc hatred' thing as a little joke. Why so offended?
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Im not Asylon, im just one person. You are part of a single theocracy of multiple alliances. Who are aggressively attacking us.
Yes, Astrum is attacking Asylon. That's kind of what the game is about, you know? Realms attacking realms and all.
Btw I threw in the 'ooc hatred' thing as a little joke.
Yeah, it doesn't look like it.
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I can tell you this, if Turin sets up his own realm in Iato, the Farronite Republic won't be very happy about it.
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Totally IC cabals created through years of awesome RP are not bad: they're like basically the point of the game.
Also: anybody who thinks you can't fight a theocracy is silly. You can't fight a theocracy as Asylon, because Asylon has catastrophically bad PR. Even then, though, a 1v1 Asylon/Astrum fight is far from unimaginable.
What you can't do is just randomly go to war for !@#$ reasons, be hyper-aggressive, and expect everybody else to go, "Yeah, we're chill with that."
You have to relate to SA somehow. There's absolutely nothing bad for the game about making it so that wars require a degree of diplomacy. Honestly, zero-diplomacy wars suck for the players involved (like Asylon's surprise attack on Terran, for example). They deny players the ability to have substantive plot-building or RP, and strip out the cultural development and social-relational component of the game.
What are !@#$ reasons?
Why did most people go to war in medieval ages? AFAIK it was hugely contrived "claims" that probably wouldn't stand up in a court of law.
People are so hung up on intrigue and diplomacy and scheming that they forget in the medieval ages, might was right. Catholic church says stop fighting, did that stop england and the king of france? What about the duchal warfare in France?
I'm a fan of zero diplomacy wars. My character has asserted many times to make examples of realms, that we need more land for our horses, they have sullied our saga. I'm unsure how those wars prevent RP; the barbarians from the west have jealously invaded our land, band together and drive them out, kill their men and enslave the children!
Everyone has this image of let me be some scheming mastermind oh ho hoooo when they forget all it takes for them to stay quiet is to get captured and executed.
I gotta echo what Telamon said earlier, a lot of people wanna play game of thrones and not play medieval nobles. It's bad RP because anyone who was stagnant at the top would find their wine poisoned or they would be suffocated by a bribed servant, things which we can't do in battlemaster. Medieval nobles at the top of the heirarchy were always striving for more power and more glory, that's why they're at the top. People content with their station fell to the wayside or were killed for whatever power they had.
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The continental scope, nationalism and alliance webs of Battlemaster diplomacy would be more appropriate for a 19th century setting than a medieval one.
The pacifism of Astrum in it's relations with Asylon is a recent example of non-medieval behaviour. Astrum reneged on the war because it felt that the war no longer served the high minded purpose of defending it's ally, Terran. That simply does not strike me as medieval behaviour, not the purpose for war itself nor the reasoning behind the ensuing peace.
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Asylon is all for war. What we are against is entangled alliances. We have let all our alliances nullify after achieving our goals. No need for year long federations and crap like SA has. Now we face Astrum alone, can they do the same? No because they are a kingdom of fear, not of bravery. Asylon might be a kingdom of !@#$%^& barbarians but at least we recognize when huge alliances are no longer needed. SA should do the same, goal oriented alliances for short term gains and once achieved the nations go back to their independent scheming and fighting.
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See, this is what Halleria's been saying. The Council of Mech Albion is useless because it's just a way for Asylon to make sure FR is kept pacified while it goes warring against Iashalur/Niselur and Astrum.
I am so glad I wrote up (in my opinion) treaties with Astrum and Niselur :D Now, to D'Hara and the South!
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What are !@#$ reasons?
Why did most people go to war in medieval ages? AFAIK it was hugely contrived "claims" that probably wouldn't stand up in a court of law.
People are so hung up on intrigue and diplomacy and scheming that they forget in the medieval ages, might was right. Catholic church says stop fighting, did that stop england and the king of france? What about the duchal warfare in France?
I'm a fan of zero diplomacy wars. My character has asserted many times to make examples of realms, that we need more land for our horses, they have sullied our saga. I'm unsure how those wars prevent RP; the barbarians from the west have jealously invaded our land, band together and drive them out, kill their men and enslave the children!
Everyone has this image of let me be some scheming mastermind oh ho hoooo when they forget all it takes for them to stay quiet is to get captured and executed.
I gotta echo what Telamon said earlier, a lot of people wanna play game of thrones and not play medieval nobles. It's bad RP because anyone who was stagnant at the top would find their wine poisoned or they would be suffocated by a bribed servant, things which we can't do in battlemaster. Medieval nobles at the top of the heirarchy were always striving for more power and more glory, that's why they're at the top. People content with their station fell to the wayside or were killed for whatever power they had.
!@#$ Reasons=We are going to war over a mattsr of honor which we won't tell anyone. More room for the horses is better than that.
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I prefer contrived reasons for war with contrived demands for surrender. Something that enables realms to go to war willy-nilly, but keeps them intact. If people worried less about their realm being entirely destroyed, all their work being undone, then we'd see more conflict.
Honestly, I'd like to see SA play a role in enabling this. SA can act as a multi-realm guaranteer that 80% of the realm will be left to rebuild, but only marginal gains/losses of border regions will incur. Let the SA realms have at each other, but under limitations. Make Corsanctum act as a third party over all war/peace treaties so that the faithful can have 'fun' wars with each other. Not the 'no fun allowed' anti-conflict stance the church has shown me.
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The continental scope, nationalism and alliance webs of Battlemaster diplomacy would be more appropriate for a 19th century setting than a medieval one.
Hmm, an enlightenment to post napoleonic period (so 1500 to 1830ish) version of Battlemaster, sounds awesome! Imagine all of the families of our medieval nobility in that time period. I'd play that for the rest of my life.
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See, this is what Halleria's been saying. The Council of Mech Albion is useless because it's just a way for Asylon to make sure FR is kept pacified while it goes warring against Iashalur/Niselur and Astrum.
I am so glad I wrote up (in my opinion) treaties with Astrum and Niselur :D Now, to D'Hara and the South!
the council of Mech Albion and our peace treaty has been a boon for the Farronites. They now have a powerful ally to their west and an entire area to the south to conquer unhindered. We gave you guys access to two duchies and we are going to help you get them, never mind whatever else you grab inbetween. If they had of warred us they possibly could have gained Itau and a burned out hulk of land on their western border, thousands dead and wasted lives. Instead, now they have peace and a strong army in which to tame the Terran lands and become a great power on the east coast of western Dwilight.
The Farronites did what Terran was incapable of doing, and that was seeing passed a few short term gains, if the Terrans had fought against Kabrinskia they would have a duchy in Golden Farrow and their empire would be powerful, independent and alive. Instead they cowed to SA, they made enemies where once the greatest friend and ally was and failed to see that they could be more. Asylon will do for the Farronites what no other could believe possible, we will make them a powerhouse in the west lands and in time free them from the iron grip of Astrum and theocracies and show you all how truly wrong and shortsighted you have been about the sleeping bear of the westlands.
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Astrum should seriously consider wiping FR out ;)
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Astrum should seriously consider wiping FR out ;)
Astrum should seriously consider wiping itself out in an awesome civil war... ;)
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Astrum should seriously consider wiping FR out ;)
:-* Bet you'd do waaay better against FR and Asylon than you're doing against just Asylon by itself.
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I'm not talking about the founder or a specific ruler, the problem is this strong peace between 5 huge realms and the social/political dynamic that is diminishing conflict on the island.
The solution that i would suggest would be for the players and leadership to encourage more authentic "medieval behavior" so the nations among the faith of SA can squabble and fight. However, the problem is that the religion has manifested itself into a nearly unshakeable mass political alliance that is killing the fun in the game. I want people to make plans to do something about it! Let's make things interesting!
So, why don't you be that person? Why don't you make yourself the leadership who can do something about this? If you don't like it, change it.
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Whats all this talk of FR taking lands to its south...?
:)
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I'm waiting for someone to call out how Halleria is binding FR more closely to SA through both domestic laws and foreign treaties, heh.
PS
There can only be one power in the West. ;)
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The Farronites did what Terran was incapable of doing, and that was seeing passed a few short term gains, if the Terrans had fought against Kabrinskia they would have a duchy in Golden Farrow and their empire would be powerful, independent and alive. Instead they cowed to SA, they made enemies where once the greatest friend and ally was and failed to see that they could be more. Asylon will do for the Farronites what no other could believe possible, we will make them a powerhouse in the west lands and in time free them from the iron grip of Astrum and theocracies and show you all how truly wrong and shortsighted you have been about the sleeping bear of the westlands.
No.
Not. !@#$ing. Again.
You are so banned from ever talking about that war. Ever. Stop.
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Political situation in the north is very tight and limited, I admit that. From my character's point of view though, there is always room to seize opportunities and this is a chance for Leopold to prove he can sail these dangerous waters with agility of a seasoned shark, and find something for his nobles to 'do' while simultaneously increasing his own power. Really interested if it works out or not.
If game mechanics would support alliances requiring resources, such as gold, then I think the northern block would be harder to maintain, hence providing more room for conflict. However, relying solely on the mindset of 21st century player to create fun when there is a big SA club over his head is a long shot. Everyone blames the rulers for this, but I think they share the blame with the Dukes.
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No.
Not. !@#$ing. Again.
You are so banned from ever talking about that war. Ever. Stop.
The truth hurts.... ;)
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Political situation in the north is very tight and limited, I admit that. From my character's point of view though, there is always room to seize opportunities and this is a chance for Leopold to prove he can sail these dangerous waters with agility of a seasoned shark, and find something for his nobles to 'do' while simultaneously increasing his own power. Really interested if it works out or not.
If game mechanics would support alliances requiring resources, such as gold, then I think the northern block would be harder to maintain, hence providing more room for conflict. However, relying solely on the mindset of 21st century player to create fun when there is a big SA club over his head is a long shot. Everyone blames the rulers for this, but I think they share the blame with the Dukes.
People are complaining about how boring this Asylon vs Astrum war is and I have to explain to you all that this is how a war against a huge alliance is fought, boring defensive survival. I refuse to make this war fun for the federations aligned against us, We will employ tactics that bore them to death.
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I haven't heard anyone say the war is boring. There's just no reason for it to continue. The objectives that Astrum had set forth have been met. Asylon met its objectives, too. So, why keep fighting?
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The truth hurts.... ;)
Shut up about it, seriously. You've said like a billion times that you wouldn't talk about it anymore, and you keep doing it anyways.
People are complaining about how boring this Asylon vs Astrum war is and I have to explain to you all that this is how a war against a huge alliance is fought, boring defensive survival. I refuse to make this war fun for the federations aligned against us, We will employ tactics that bore them to death.
Are they now? Who is? For the love of god, don't say I am, as you seemed to suggest in an earlier post.
I don't give a damn what you war is like. I seriously don't. Why would I complain about something I don't give a damn about?
All I said regarding your war is that it looked without promise, because you've already signed peace with a bunch of people, and are also already seeking peace with the rest of them. As such, if someone wants war, it makes no sense to join a realm who likely won't be at war anymore soon enough. As opposed to a realm like Fissoa or D'Hara, who will likely keep on being at war for quite some time still.
My last posts had nothing to do with the quality of any wars whatsoever, only of their perspectives for longevity.
Actually, I dug up the post, and it's not implied at all, it's openly stated.
Not a chance in hell. I'd rather fight on the wrong side for the right ideals than to give into a form of playstyle I find so deeply wrong like the massive federations/alliances of SA. Its wrong wrong wrong and I will fight every day to see it stopped.
I have heard this a few times coming from Chenier mostly to discourage new players or players coming to Asylons war by saying ' yeah its a dead boring war etc etc etc' I'm sorry Chenier but unlike D'Harans we actually fight wars and they take long times and they are sadly about so many different strategies that you wouldnt understand. Asylon has to fight a slow defensive war because we are fighting against a massive SA alliance, their economies are huge, they combined have far more nobles, what do you want Asylon to do? We can't be risky or fight dramatic battles, we are the underdog and fighting against extremely unfair odds. Do we complain ? No we keep fighting, so STFU about Asylons war being so boooring compared to the excitement of doing nothing for their allies the D'Harans.
This is more of your really tiring self-victimization based on horrendous distortions of what people say. I even looked it up for you. In my last 75 posts on these forums, dating from two weeks back, I never once wrote the word "boring". Not once. I used "dull" twice, and neither case in relation to Asylon. Stop saying everyone's out to get you. I don't give a !@#$ about you. You don't need to play victim all of the time.
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Political situation in the north is very tight and limited, I admit that. From my character's point of view though, there is always room to seize opportunities and this is a chance for Leopold to prove he can sail these dangerous waters with agility of a seasoned shark, and find something for his nobles to 'do' while simultaneously increasing his own power. Really interested if it works out or not.
If game mechanics would support alliances requiring resources, such as gold, then I think the northern block would be harder to maintain, hence providing more room for conflict. However, relying solely on the mindset of 21st century player to create fun when there is a big SA club over his head is a long shot. Everyone blames the rulers for this, but I think they share the blame with the Dukes.
You have a point. Bored dukes could go off and secede at any time. Do iiiit!
I think the dukes are the most interesting but underplayed class in the game. They're like the kingmakers. They scheme.. a lot. They have serious clout. Similarly, AFK dukes are a serious contributor to stagnation imo.
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Shut up about it, seriously. You've said like a billion times that you wouldn't talk about it anymore, and you keep doing it anyways.
Are they now? Who is? For the love of god, don't say I am, as you seemed to suggest in an earlier post.
I don't give a damn what you war is like. I seriously don't. Why would I complain about something I don't give a damn about?
All I said regarding your war is that it looked without promise, because you've already signed peace with a bunch of people, and are also already seeking peace with the rest of them. As such, if someone wants war, it makes no sense to join a realm who likely won't be at war anymore soon enough. As opposed to a realm like Fissoa or D'Hara, who will likely keep on being at war for quite some time still.
My last posts had nothing to do with the quality of any wars whatsoever, only of their perspectives for longevity.
Actually, I dug up the post, and it's not implied at all, it's openly stated.
This is more of your really tiring self-victimization based on horrendous distortions of what people say. I even looked it up for you. In my last 75 posts on these forums, dating from two weeks back, I never once wrote the word "boring". Not once. I used "dull" twice, and neither case in relation to Asylon. Stop saying everyone's out to get you. I don't give a !@#$ about you. You don't need to play victim all of the time.
You do not have to say directly when you imply with every thing that pours out of your mouth.
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I haven't heard anyone say the war is boring. There's just no reason for it to continue. The objectives that Astrum had set forth have been met. Asylon met its objectives, too. So, why keep fighting?
It was directed at Chenier and the crap that comes out of his mouth.
What I find funny is how absolutely right I was about absolutely everything regarding the strategy and rise of Asylon in the west lands. And how absolutely stone dead wrong you have all been. So dont tell me to shut up, you are without ground to stand on.
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You do not have to say directly when you imply with every thing that pours out of your mouth.
Get a hold of yourself. Contrary to what you seem to believe, you and your realm don't cross my mind very often at all. I care so little about you and your realm, that I never even bothered to ask myself whether your war is an interesting war or not. I just don't give a !@#$ about it. And as such, I don't even speak about it. The only reason I brought it up that once was because someone was being a jerk and claiming I was just talking out of self-interest to promote my own realm, when I was merely making a list of realms at war and likely to remain at war for some time still. How on earth can I be "complaining" about something I don't give a damn about? About something I only briefly mentioned to counter an accusation of self-promotion? Had you guys said your plan was to conquer Golden Farrow, then yea, sure, I could have listed Asylon on my list of realms to join if one wants war. But that's not what you want: you've publicly stated that you were trying to get peace with all nations you are at war with. For whatever reason, you love war so much but you are so eager to end them before anything really comes out of them. And as such, I wouldn't recommend Asylon to anyone who is looking purely for war. Your wars may be fun, your realm may be fun, but the fact remains that your wars are few and short.
It was directed at Chenier and the crap that comes out of his mouth.
Except that Indirik is right: Not a single person has stated that your war is boring. The only one that's spewing !@#$ from his mouth is yourself.
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Get a hold of yourself. Contrary to what you seem to believe, you and your realm don't cross my mind very often at all. I care so little about you and your realm, that I never even bothered to ask myself whether your war is an interesting war or not. I just don't give a !@#$ about it. And as such, I don't even speak about it. The only reason I brought it up that once was because someone was being a jerk and claiming I was just talking out of self-interest to promote my own realm, when I was merely making a list of realms at war and likely to remain at war for some time still. How on earth can I be "complaining" about something I don't give a damn about? About something I only briefly mentioned to counter an accusation of self-promotion? Had you guys said your plan was to conquer Golden Farrow, then yea, sure, I could have listed Asylon on my list of realms to join if one wants war. But that's not what you want: you've publicly stated that you were trying to get peace with all nations you are at war with. For whatever reason, you love war so much but you are so eager to end them before anything really comes out of them. And as such, I wouldn't recommend Asylon to anyone who is looking purely for war. Your wars may be fun, your realm may be fun, but the fact remains that your wars are few and short.
Except that Indirik is right: Not a single person has stated that your war is boring. The only one that's spewing !@#$ from his mouth is yourself.
What you say and how you say it implies you care deeply and are extremely angry with its outcome.
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Whats all this talk of FR taking lands to its south...?
:)
Does it matter? This is an oog forum. Whatever is said can be true or lies or even completely irrelevant. The lesson learned here is that people shouldnt be reacting to OOG knowledge or even fantasies they learn about on the forums. I a tendency to say things on the forum just to see how things will react IG knowing many here are mining for ig reactions.
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What you say and how you say it implies you care deeply and are extremely angry with its outcome.
Disdain is the only word that describes what I think of you, your realm, and your wars. Were you not so annoyingly self-victimizing on these forums, the word would instead have been apathy. Please stop harassing me and turning everything I say, no matter what it is or who it is said to, as being some kind of attack on yourself. You value yourself too much.
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Disdain is the only word that describes what I think of you, your realm, and your wars. Were you not so annoyingly self-victimizing on these forums, the word would instead have been apathy. Please stop harassing me and turning everything I say, no matter what it is or who it is said to, as being some kind of attack on yourself. You value yourself too much.
Why do you react with such venom to everything I say? I know why because the truth hurts. It makes you angry to know that someone out there sees through your bull!@#$ and won't blindly follow everything you say. Please leave me alone, do not talk about my realm or myself unless you can begin to talk about it with unbiased opinion and hostility.
The mistake you made was trying to steer people away from playing in Asylon and instead promoting your own realm. What you should have done was not bring up my realm with any opinion and instead just promote your own realm.
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You have a point. Bored dukes could go off and secede at any time. Do iiiit!
I think the dukes are the most interesting but underplayed class in the game. They're like the kingmakers. They scheme.. a lot. They have serious clout. Similarly, AFK dukes are a serious contributor to stagnation imo.
You are correct, of course. However, again, the mindset of players plays a remarkable role here. Nationalism is something that is still greatly present even on Dwilight. People continue to see their realm as a nation, while they probably should see it as a collection of Duchies intertwined with culture and history, and bind by one ruler. It's hard to change that, perhaps even impossible.
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Why do you react with such venom to everything I say? I know why because the truth hurts. It makes you angry to know that someone out there sees through your bull!@#$ and won't blindly follow everything you say. Please leave me alone, do not talk about my realm or myself unless you can begin to talk about it with unbiased opinion and hostility.
The mistake you made was trying to steer people away from playing in Asylon and instead promoting your own realm. What you should have done was not bring up my realm with any opinion and instead just promote your own realm.
Dude, after rereading some of this thread, I think you are, ONCE AGAIN, attributing what other people said to myself. Vellos implied your war was boring, not me. You may think that just because we were allies IG on Dwi, we are one and the same. But I'm not like your friend Mendicant. I don't secretly run for cabal of people whose only goal is to come antagonize you on the forums.
And of all the realms I've spent a long time in, D'Hara is by far the realm I've least advertized. Because until the War of the Maroccidens, we never really had any meaningful war and our food situation prevented us from adopting hostile diplomacy. I've even cautioned people again joining D'Hara, saying how it wasn't fit for everyone, being a trader realm and all. And I still didn't favor D'Hara over Fissoa in any way: heck, they probably see more battles than we do.
I react with venom because I'm sick of your behavior and attitude, I'm sick of you making a big drama out of everything that any single person says that even only remotely concerns you or your realm. You've said a billion times you'd stop and pull out, but you keep on doing the same god damn hussy fit all the god damn time.
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I react with venom because I'm sick of your behavior and attitude, I'm sick of you making a big drama out of everything that any single person says that even only remotely concerns you or your realm. You've said a billion times you'd stop and pull out, but you keep on doing the same god damn hussy fit all the god damn time.
Because he keeps getting what he wants out of it: attention.
Stop feeding the troll, Chénier, and there's a good chance he'll get bored and go away.
I learned long ago not to care about a single thing that comes out of Glaumring's mouth (fingers? keyboard? whatever) because by his own admission, most of it is BS made up expressly for the purpose of provoking a reaction.
And yet you fall for it every time.
Just add him to your ignore list (Profile > Buddies/Ignore List > Edit Ignore List). Then you won't have to read his drivel.
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Dude, after rereading some of this thread, I think you are, ONCE AGAIN, attributing what other people said to myself. Vellos implied your war was boring, not me. You may think that just because we were allies IG on Dwi, we are one and the same. But I'm not like your friend Mendicant. I don't secretly run for cabal of people whose only goal is to come antagonize you on the forums.
And of all the realms I've spent a long time in, D'Hara is by far the realm I've least advertized. Because until the War of the Maroccidens, we never really had any meaningful war and our food situation prevented us from adopting hostile diplomacy. I've even cautioned people again joining D'Hara, saying how it wasn't fit for everyone, being a trader realm and all. And I still didn't favor D'Hara over Fissoa in any way: heck, they probably see more battles than we do.
I react with venom because I'm sick of your behavior and attitude, I'm sick of you making a big drama out of everything that any single person says that even only remotely concerns you or your realm. You've said a billion times you'd stop and pull out, but you keep on doing the same god damn hussy fit all the god damn time.
I am also sick of your behavior and attitude. I am sick of you making a big drama about things I say on the forum. I have Perth telling me to STFU because I mention a thing in the past, I have you and Vellos constantly saying !@#$ to new players and or players discouraging them from considering Asylon. I have Indirik and his banter. Halleria swooping in to take pot shots at everything I say. I can't help that I am so controversial and such a threat on Dwilight. I can't help that everything I have said has been so damn right and I can't help that I have steered Asylons strategic success to the point where it is now, where after months of all of your arrogant bragging and !@#$ talk your realms are in ashes and cannot even come near to defeating us. I can't help that everything you guys have ever said to me has been proven wrong, that even SA was complaining about Terrans lack of communication in war, that the Moot has horrible coordination and communication. I can't help that I was absolutely right about everything over the last few months regarding western Dwilight. And it must totally shatter every fibre of your being to know that your most hated enemy has been right right right right right on every count about everything I had been saying about you guys for months. And finally people are starting to see through your lies and awful tactical know how.
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You are correct, of course. However, again, the mindset of players plays a remarkable role here. Nationalism is something that is still greatly present even on Dwilight. People continue to see their realm as a nation, while they probably should see it as a collection of Duchies intertwined with culture and history, and bind by one ruler. It's hard to change that, perhaps even impossible.
Its hard to secede with the Capital city in your Duchy, anywho. :P
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Well, as long as the Duke is happy and keeps gaining wealth and territory to his domain, he shouldn't have the desire to go his own separate way. :P
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What if the chance of lands adding to his power is slim to none at the current rate? Coupled with the impending losses in tax gold in his city, he might not remain a happy duke much longer.... :-\
Oh well, its a moot point with the code shackling him either way.
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Because he keeps getting what he wants out of it: attention.
Stop feeding the troll, Chénier, and there's a good chance he'll get bored and go away.
I learned long ago not to care about a single thing that comes out of Glaumring's mouth (fingers? keyboard? whatever) because by his own admission, most of it is BS made up expressly for the purpose of provoking a reaction.
And yet you fall for it every time.
Just add him to your ignore list (Profile > Buddies/Ignore List > Edit Ignore List). Then you won't have to read his drivel.
Thank you, I didn't know it was possible to ignore someone. I'm happy to say that I have not ignored him;.
But in most places, trolls are moderated out. We just let this one keep on annoying 99% of the members of this forum. I bothered to read his last reply before ignoring him. "It's not my fault if I'm too damn good and awesome for everyone, that's I'm right about everything in every way and every time, blablablablabla".
Seriously. Why the !@#$ to we tolerate this level of trolling?
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Well, as long as the Duke is happy and keeps gaining wealth and territory to his domain, he shouldn't have the desire to go his own separate way. :P
In Asylon( here we go again ::) ) it is every Dukes right to attain independence if they desire. We do not allow region switching to neighboring realms (which we consider the highest form of treason and disrespect) but if any Duke or group of nobles desire power they may seize it in a coup or through referendum of independence as long as the new leadership maintains the monarchy or forms a monarchy realm. Asylon was founded in revolution, why would we deny it to anyone else to achieve the same goal? We do not need to hold onto power with our fists clenched tightly to squeeze all life out of the realm. We would prefer that the duke did it amicably if they do choose independence so that we can plan the new realm for success instead of breaking off and falling apart. We have every intention on refounding a realm in Kosht and one in Itau for the future. I hope that one day Asylon will be a small kingdom of no real importance beyond that of spawning new kingdoms and being influential in culture even long after it is gone.
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Oh god. He's on my ignore list, but I still get notices of his ramblings.
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Seriously. Why the !@#$ to we tolerate this level of trolling?
Well, there I have to say, I agree with you. We really need some way to get the forum mods to crack down harder on trolling, flaming, and whatever other kinds of antisocial forum behaviour we see.
This forum could be a great place to interact with the community—and at times, it is.
Other times, though, it's a wretched hive of scum and villainy.
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Just add him to your ignore list (Profile > Buddies/Ignore List > Edit Ignore List). Then you won't have to read his drivel.
Godsend. Thank you very much for this piece of wisdom!
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Well, there I have to say, I agree with you. We really need some way to get the forum mods to crack down harder on trolling, flaming, and whatever other kinds of antisocial forum behaviour we see.
This forum could be a great place to interact with the community—and at times, it is.
Other times, though, it's a wretched hive of scum and villainy.
So you are implying I am trolling and or flaming or being antisocial? Where has anything I have said in the last few posts not been about IG things? I have no come out here attacking people.
Basically by disagreeing or trying in any way to correct lies and or blatant hypocrisy on these forums you get labeled 'trolling, flaming, or antisocial'? So basically do not have an opinion beyond the one that is officially sanctioned by a few members of this forum?
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Godsend. Thank you very much for this piece of wisdom!
No kidding!
Now I can put Anaris and Indirik on ignore and make sure I only see crazy posts.
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What if the chance of lands adding to his power is slim to none at the current rate? Coupled with the impending losses in tax gold in his city, he might not remain a happy duke much longer.... :-\
Oh well, its a moot point with the code shackling him either way.
Well, once a Duke reaches a certain limit for the power of his Duchy then it is time to make his Duchy well known across the world. Sponsoring famous armies, spreading his own name in the world by name and skill, hosting tournaments and seeing his goals and agendas are met in the foreign world. There are many options to keep the Dukes happy! :)
Joking aside, a good ruler should always keep his Dukes, as his most direct vassals, happy. Binding them with the oath of fealty is the most basic step, but if in the long run he fails to provide his Dukes with some entertainment then he should risk severe damage to his rule. It was my point from before. If let's say, a duke in Morek is not happy cause his realm has zero prospects on the horizon and his ruler refuses to do anything about it. This results in nobles leaving and therefore making his own duchy much weaker. So, his options are to either dethrone the King or make a secession. In the long run, every Duke is probably a King wannabe. We would have much more livelier islands if this was a certainty and not just a probability.
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Well, once a Duke reaches a certain limit for the power of his Duchy then it is time to make his Duchy well known across the world. Sponsoring famous armies, spreading his own name in the world by name and skill, hosting tournaments and seeing his goals and agendas are met in the foreign world. There are many options to keep the Dukes happy! :)
Joking aside, a good ruler should always keep his Dukes, as his most direct vassals, happy. Binding them with the oath of fealty is the most basic step, but if in the long run he fails to provide his Dukes with some entertainment then he should risk severe damage to his rule. It was my point from before. If let's say, a duke in Morek is not happy cause his realm has zero prospects on the horizon and his ruler refuses to do anything about it. This results in nobles leaving and therefore making his own duchy much weaker. So, his options are to either dethrone the King or make a secession. In the long run, every Duke is probably a King wannabe. We would have much more livelier islands if this was a certainty and not just a probability.
I 100% agree with this. Every Duke should be a king in waiting.
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Locked. Warnings and thread cleaning will be forthcoming.