BattleMaster Community
BattleMaster => Helpline => Topic started by: Indirik on January 10, 2015, 10:14:07 PM
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Saw this posted in Sandalak yesterday:
Out-of-Character from Ana Leuin (2 hours, 34 minutes ago)
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I have looted in multiple regions expecialy the rich ones in the south like moeth and have only recovered between 2 - 5 gold for 8 hours of work. And I even had over 20 men. The gold kept Ana satisfied.. Now that she isn't getting boon there may be the slaughtered bodies of entire families lining the streets.
M. pieprzyk
I've seen other reports as well that looting doesn't really gain you much gold these days.
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Got tthis today in Morek:
Out-of-Character from Kenshin Blackwood (4 hours, 29 minutes ago)
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Your men take 37 gold worth of money and valuables from the people of Poryatu.
Your men take 2 bushels of food from the people of Poryatu, and send it to your home region of Muspelheim.
Your men also restock their provisions from stolen food.
170 peasants are killed in the process.
170 peasants? really? Is the new code supposed to be this hard even you go after the infastructure and be strict with it (the option how "honorable" you are)?
Markus Kelanti
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I believe loot reports showed between 100 and 200 gold on takings a little while back in some of Nothoi's mountains.
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OK, I may need to tweak killings down some and peasant-gold up some.
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You know what would be nice? Taxing loot gains. Just likes the letters of marque. It would open up new possibilities, and encourage leaders to allow private raiding initiatives thanks to self-gain.
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You know what would be nice? Taxing loot gains. Just likes the letters of marque. It would open up new possibilities, and encourage leaders to allow private raiding initiatives thanks to self-gain.
Ooh, that's an interesting idea. I rather like it.
I'll have to consider how it could work, and what the implications are, but it does raise interesting possibilities.
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I can think of two ways. First would be something like automatic fines for breaking the law, except as a % of the spoils instead of as a fixed amount per act.
Second would be through the armies: sponsors can set a % of the looting that goes to the war chest. Those higher up could then tax a portion of the warchest's gains or the like. This would be closer to letters of marque, I think, as the sponsor would be charged with collecting the dues and handing them over.
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Don't get too complicated with it. We don't need multiple layers of taxation for looting gains. That's overkill. In fact, this entire mechanic is probably overkill. Looting already gains you very little in most cases. No one is getting rich from it. Adding taxes on top of it is pretty pointless. The more I think about it, the more useless this seems.
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Don't get too complicated with it. We don't need multiple layers of taxation for looting gains. That's overkill. In fact, this entire mechanic is probably overkill. Looting already gains you very little in most cases. No one is getting rich from it. Adding taxes on top of it is pretty pointless. The more I think about it, the more useless this seems.
No one is getting rich from looting because it hasn't been tweaked.
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What are you people talking about?
Zuhle: Woodsland, income: 296 gold. Looted 7 times for gold by one noble: total gains: ~200 gold.
Pel Mark: Mountain, income: 816 gold. Actual looting report:
Your men take 266 gold worth of money and valuables from the people of Pel Mark and the local tax office.
65 peasants are killed in the process.
Looting makes you rich.
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I'm glad it's working for you.
That doesn't change my point in any meaningful way, though. The suggested mechanic doesn't really add anything meaningful to the game. It's another way for those who already have money and power to sit around doing nothing and still accumulate yet more money. What does this add to the game that will give the majority of the players more to do, have more fun, and keep playing? "Your men bring back 300 gold from their looting efforts. Your army liaison confiscates half of it, which is to be delivered to your duke, who hasn't left his estate in three years."
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I'm glad it's working for you.
Reading the details Anaris posted, it's probably got to do with this:
- Changed the effectiveness of looting to be based on population density and how many peasants a given group of soldiers can realistically (?) cover in the given amount of time
Mountains have a low population density but produce a ton of gold.
"Your men bring back 300 gold from their looting efforts. Your army liaison confiscates half of it, which is to be delivered to your duke, who hasn't left his estate in three years."
Maybe it'll give people yet another reason to rise up against the inactive duke?
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Because they have so many options for that.
More than likely they will simply create our join another army that doesn't do that, and nothing will change. So the net effect is more complexity in the system, an option that mostly doesn't get used (and when it does get used, it's probably not being used in a manner beneficial to the game), and no real change to anything that makes the dev time worthwhile, which could have been better used to fix some of the major systemic problems we still have.
I'm still not seeing the real benefit to the game from implementing this.
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I can only think of two realms who ever really looted for the heck of it, BoM and Thalmarkin (who incidentally occupy the same territory). A few others might have, but it was rare.
Loot tax would encourage more rulers to launch wars for other things than total annihilation of the enemy realm.
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I can only think of two realms who ever really looted for the heck of it, BoM and Thalmarkin (who incidentally occupy the same territory). A few others might have, but it was rare.
Loot tax would encourage more rulers to launch wars for other things than total annihilation of the enemy realm.
More interestingly, I could envision an actual letter of marque being issued to a specific army, granting that army permission to loot in a specific realm, and returning some percentage of the takings to the Crown.
This would not require a declaration of war, just a lack of a peace treaty. It would also not permit any takeovers, just looting.
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More interestingly, I could envision an actual letter of marque being issued to a specific army, granting that army permission to loot in a specific realm, and returning some percentage of the takings to the Crown.
This would not require a declaration of war, just a lack of a peace treaty. It would also not permit any takeovers, just looting.
\o/
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You can already do all of this, with the exception of taxing the loot via mechanics.
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You can already do all of this, with the exception of taxing the loot via mechanics.
Then perhaps the letter of marque should make looting possible even against realms you're at peace with ;D
I'm not saying that I'm definitely going to do something like this, but I do like the idea. I like any idea that has the potential to reduce the proportion of conflict that is aimed at wiping out a realm.
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More interestingly, I could envision an actual letter of marque being issued to a specific army, granting that army permission to loot in a specific realm, and returning some percentage of the takings to the Crown.
This would not require a declaration of war, just a lack of a peace treaty. It would also not permit any takeovers, just looting.
This sounds a lot like the scrapped new diplomacy system that allowed narrow declarations of war - such as declarations that would only allow looting, or declarations that automatically expired once a limited objective was achieved.
I liked that system except for the treaty friction part. The taxation part is really not necessary for it to work.
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This sounds a lot like the scrapped new diplomacy system that allowed narrow declarations of war - such as declarations that would only allow looting, or declarations that automatically expired once a limited objective was achieved.
I liked that system except for the treaty friction part. The taxation part is really not necessary for it to work.
Well, it's similar to a part of the failed treaty system, yes.
And I don't have a problem with making one of the possible taxation amounts 0%.
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Can't you already loot anyone who is not an ally?
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This sounds a lot like the scrapped new diplomacy system that allowed narrow declarations of war - such as declarations that would only allow looting, or declarations that automatically expired once a limited objective was achieved.
I liked that system except for the treaty friction part. The taxation part is really not necessary for it to work.
Indeed, I'm not quite sure why that system was scrapped, the friction was really the only thing people seemed to oppose.
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I agree with Indirik here. Having limited engagements with other realms is cool and all but I see no reason to put yet more gold into the pockets of the rich. There is already too much disparity between the rich and the poor in battlemaster for my taste and too few even notice it. Finding yet another way for the rich to get richer does not interest me much...
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I agree with Indirik here. Having limited engagements with other realms is cool and all but I see no reason to put yet more gold into the pockets of the rich. There is already too much disparity between the rich and the poor in battlemaster for my taste and too few even notice it. Finding yet another way for the rich to get richer does not interest me much...
Because the rich are the ones who decide to give opportunities or not to the not rich.
Besides, you exaggerate wealth. Most rulers I come across are not rich. Most have sub-average pay, many are outright poor.
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And this will do nothing to change that.
A ruler can already generate wealth by taxing the dukes. If they choose not to, then that's their own fault.
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And this will do nothing to change that.
A ruler can already generate wealth by taxing the dukes. If they choose not to, then that's their own fault.
He can, but that makes dukes unhappy.
If he can send off nobles to loot and gain a piece of it, however, then that makes everyone happy, doesn't it? The knights get to do something and keep a part of their loot, and the ruler gets to make a bit of coin without upsetting the dukes.
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Two things:
I tried to burn food, lenient, just loads up a blank black page with no hours used.
Also, I switched allegiance of a region with peasant militia, the peasants didn't follow suit. Seems to me like they should have followed their region?
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Two things:
I tried to burn food, lenient, just loads up a blank black page with no hours used.
Good catch. Fixed now; please try it again and let others know to do the same.
Also, I switched allegiance of a region with peasant militia, the peasants didn't follow suit. Seems to me like they should have followed their region?
Hm. When a region is taken over, any militia that remain are supposed to "start a guerrilla war against the foreign oppressors" or some such thing, but I think you're right, if the region changes hands for any other reason, militia should go with it, peasant or otherwise.
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Also, I switched allegiance of a region with peasant militia, the peasants didn't follow suit. Seems to me like they should have followed their region?
To be clear, exactly what script did you use to do this?
(For instance, was it a handover with RegionExchange, a single-region switch with SwitchDuchy, a full-duchy switch with SwitchRealm, or something else entirely?)
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With 6 hours, 89 men, burning food on lenient:
Your men burn 84 bushels of food belonging to the people of Eykfar and from the local granaries.
434 peasants are killed in the process.
With 4 hours, 10 men, outlying villages on lenient:
Your men take 2 gold worth of money and valuables from the people of Eykfar.
8 peasants are killed in the process.
As for the allegiance change, it's as lord joining the duchy of Reeds, which bordered the region in question.
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Question about burning food: The text suggests that not all of the burnt food will come from the granaries, but rather directly from the peasants. What does this actually imply? What are the consequences of this, if the granaries are largely intact?
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As for the allegiance change, it's as lord joining the duchy of Reeds, which bordered the region in question.
OK, found and fixed for the future, and nudged your two militia units in the right direction.
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Question about burning food: The text suggests that not all of the burnt food will come from the granaries, but rather directly from the peasants. What does this actually imply? What are the consequences of this, if the granaries are largely intact?
Makes the peasants more upset, and once I get this part implemented, will require some extra food from the granary so those peasants can eat OK. (That's still TODO, though.)
Also TODO is to decide whether I should break out granary and tax office attacks as deliberate actions separate from the burning & stealing from peasants. I'm still sort of waffling on that.
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Makes the peasants more upset, and once I get this part implemented, will require some extra food from the granary so those peasants can eat OK. (That's still TODO, though.)
Also TODO is to decide whether I should break out granary and tax office attacks as deliberate actions separate from the burning & stealing from peasants. I'm still sort of waffling on that.
So basically, it should eventually create a short-term food consumption increase?
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So basically, it should eventually create a short-term food consumption increase?
Yeah, pretty much. Less than if you'd stolen directly from the granary, but still some effect.
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So if I want to hurt a realm's food supplies, granaries should be my target for the time being.
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The citizens of Moeth have had enough with the looting. Since nobody seems to be helping them, they have formed a citizen militia. 1266.7 men take up improvised weapons to defend their homes.
Should probably change that to "1,266 men and a one-legged beggar" or something...
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Should probably change that to "1,266 men and a one-legged beggar" or something...
That would be totally awesome!!!
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Your men take 113 gold worth of money and valuables from the people of Baqua and the local tax office.
Your men take 9 bushels of food from the people of Baqua, and send it to your home region of Yermon.
428 peasants are killed in the process.
Additionally, your men round up some of the local women and systematically rape them.
Stealing gold comes with 428 dead peasants.
remaining peasants: 15548/16700