BattleMaster Community
BattleMaster => Locals => South Island => Topic started by: Kai on February 08, 2015, 02:10:13 AM
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Currently knights of cities get about 200 gold per week with 100% estate efficiency in a completely safe region. Knights of other regions average 100 gold per week or less and may have their regions looted or TOed. I think this is too much of a difference for war islands.
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/me agrees
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Yeah. Cities are generating way too much gold. I think it is actually prolonging this war by a significant margin. Hard to press your advantage when enemies can refit so quickly since no one is really losing much from losing regions beside the capital.
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Excuses excuses! If anything, these massive economies make the war more interesting, since losing a few regions is no longer akin to a death sentence.
At least right now... I do think it's going to be curtains for the opposition when one realm takes a second city. No wonder the Ikkies were so eager to throw themselves at the walls of Taselak. I can almost smell the despair!
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Fair enough. Attacking enemy's capital is a known sign of despair. :D
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It is when it's obvious you'll lose, barring some cataclysmic divine intervention.
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Cities are difficult to capture. Sometimes you need a few attacks to soften them up a bit.
Still it's somewhat ironic to hear the losing side calling others desperate. ;)
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Well, that all depends on your definition of losing.
Huge Battle Fought (2015-02-04 18:07:21)
Rumours spread of a huge battle in Lesthem:
Ikalak vs. Taselak
Estimated strengths: 1070 men vs. 1440 men
Defender Victory!
Huge Battle Fought (2015-01-16 06:11:15)
Rumours spread of a huge battle in Endelee:
Taselak vs. Ikalak
Estimated strengths: 720 men vs. 630 men
Attacker Victory!
Huge Battle Fought (2015-01-15 18:11:08)
Rumours spread of a huge battle in Taselak:
Ikalak vs. Taselak
Estimated strengths: 1470 men vs. 1020 men
Defender Victory!
Huge Battle Fought (2015-01-05 06:17:08)
Rumours spread of a huge battle in Lesthem:
Taselak vs. Ikalak
Estimated strengths: 1520 men vs. 1220 men
Attacker Victory!
Huge Battle Fought (2014-12-21 18:14:55)
Rumours spread of a huge battle in Seggelin:
Taselak vs. Ikalak
Estimated strengths: 1480 men vs. 500 men
Attacker Victory!
Huge Battle Fought (2014-12-21 06:15:13)
Rumours spread of a huge battle in Seggelin:
Taselak vs. Ikalak
Estimated strengths: 340 men vs. 1290 men
Defender Victory!
Huge Battle Fought (2014-12-07 06:17:29)
Rumours spread of a huge battle in Lesthem:
Taselak vs. Ikalak
Estimated strengths: 1620 men vs. 1350 men
Attacker Victory!
The records don't go further back, but I think we can establish that there is a certain pattern here ;)
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If they had 60 nobles and not 40, things might have gone the other way.
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Well, that all depends on your definition of losing.
Huge Battle Fought (2015-02-04 18:07:21)
Rumours spread of a huge battle in Lesthem:
Ikalak vs. Taselak
Estimated strengths: 1070 men vs. 1440 men
Defender Victory!
Huge Battle Fought (2015-01-16 06:11:15)
Rumours spread of a huge battle in Endelee:
Taselak vs. Ikalak
Estimated strengths: 720 men vs. 630 men
Attacker Victory!
Huge Battle Fought (2015-01-15 18:11:08)
Rumours spread of a huge battle in Taselak:
Ikalak vs. Taselak
Estimated strengths: 1470 men vs. 1020 men
Defender Victory!
Huge Battle Fought (2015-01-05 06:17:08)
Rumours spread of a huge battle in Lesthem:
Taselak vs. Ikalak
Estimated strengths: 1520 men vs. 1220 men
Attacker Victory!
Huge Battle Fought (2014-12-21 18:14:55)
Rumours spread of a huge battle in Seggelin:
Taselak vs. Ikalak
Estimated strengths: 1480 men vs. 500 men
Attacker Victory!
Huge Battle Fought (2014-12-21 06:15:13)
Rumours spread of a huge battle in Seggelin:
Taselak vs. Ikalak
Estimated strengths: 340 men vs. 1290 men
Defender Victory!
Huge Battle Fought (2014-12-07 06:17:29)
Rumours spread of a huge battle in Lesthem:
Taselak vs. Ikalak
Estimated strengths: 1620 men vs. 1350 men
Attacker Victory!
The records don't go further back, but I think we can establish that there is a certain pattern here ;)
You are ignoring their most excellent strategy though. They don't need to win the battles, so long as their ally comes through for them. What they plan to do if and when that happens though I can't imagine.
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If they had 60 nobles and not 40, things might have gone the other way.
If 'ifs' and 'buts' were candy and nuts, we'd all have a Merry Christmas, eh!
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Battle reports don't really affect the score when you can easily recruit a new army in a day or two.
What matters is Ikalak having the most regions while Taselak having the least.
But don't let this discourage you of course.
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Battle reports don't really affect the score when you can easily recruit a new army in a day or two.
What matters is Ikalak having the most regions while Taselak having the least.
But don't let this discourage you of course.
shhhh don't dare suggest that all those glorious battles they win are not followed up with actual gains.
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Battle reports don't really affect the score when you can easily recruit a new army in a day or two.
What matters is Ikalak having the most regions while Taselak having the least.
But don't let this discourage you of course.
Ikalak hasn't had a truly powerful army in quite some time. :3
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Ikalak hasn't had a truly powerful army in quite some time. :3
I think they are mostly restricted by their lack of nobles.
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I think they are mostly restricted by their lack of nobles.
Actually its more to do with we go back into the fight too soon.
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If I wanted to win wars by teaming up to take on the big boys, and measure my success in the form of regions which by your own admission are fairly useless anyway, I'd have stayed on the other islands. This is the War Island, fer feck's sake. Act a little like it!
Yet, with every passing day of you two ganging up on us, your victory becomes less and less glorious. Assuming you hold onto your flimsy little alliance long enough. If I was a Sandal, I'd have thrown those Ikkies off my back long ago, and let them fight their own war for a change. Or maybe if we offered the Ikkies Sandalak City to betray Sandalak, they might be tempted? You never know with those politicians! Endless possibilities!
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If I wanted to win wars by teaming up to take on the big boys, and measure my success in the form of regions which by your own admission are fairly useless anyway, I'd have stayed on the other islands. This is the War Island, fer feck's sake. Act a little like it!
Yet, with every passing day of you two ganging up on us, your victory becomes less and less glorious. Assuming you hold onto your flimsy little alliance long enough. If I was a Sandal, I'd have thrown those Ikkies off my back long ago, and let them fight their own war for a change. Or maybe if we offered the Ikkies Sandalak City to betray Sandalak, they might be tempted? You never know with those politicians! Endless possibilities!
You guys tried that, tried offering us their city as well. If you want to measure winning by a stalemate, go ahead. In the end a 3 way war island is all about managing two other realms to further your own goals, you want to ignore that fact and create you own metric for victory go right ahead.
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Well, when you are outnumbered and overpowered, a stalemate is as good as a victory in my book. It's a shame I didn't save all those letters prophecising our downfall within two months. Then two months later, I was like "What are you waiting for, Christmas?". Then Christmas came, and we were still bringing wholesale slaughter upon both of you. So yeah, technically you may be winning (although at a paltry 2 regions gained for Ikalak, even that is a stretch ;) ), but the gods know who are the true warriors.
Still, your patience needs to outlast our blood lust, and we are chock full of that, man!
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Taselak has accomplished the most of the three realms on the War Island:
-1st enemy killed in battle
-Holding Toren Stronghold ever since the original region grab
-Most honorable knight
-Best warcry(HARHARHARHAR)
-The Triumvirate of M's(Moto, Moosemaul, Mooch)
-Tourist Trap of the Year
-Most enemy knights killed in battle(with two kills going to the peasants of Moeth)
Even if the stalemate is broken and we lose the 2 v 1 battle, I think us Tassies carry the spirit of the war island.
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Well, when you are outnumbered and overpowered, a stalemate is as good as a victory in my book. It's a shame I didn't save all those letters prophecising our downfall within two months. Then two months later, I was like "What are you waiting for, Christmas?". Then Christmas came, and we were still bringing wholesale slaughter upon both of you. So yeah, technically you may be winning (although at a paltry 2 regions gained for Ikalak, even that is a stretch ;) ), but the gods know who are the true warriors.
Still, your patience needs to outlast our blood lust, and we are chock full of that, man!
Course we have been hearing from your side how Ikkie will die this next offensive for how long now? It is a stalemate for a reason guys. All anyone is doing right now is trading regions back and forth. For any of the three realms to pretend they are winning (OOC of course) is just plan stupid. Obviously things will change, the reality is they could change to favour any of the three realms right now.
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I think all realms are looking to break this stalemate somehow. The main problem for Sandalak and Ikalak is Taselak being too rich. They have so much gold that even when Sandalak repel them, they crush Ikalak on their way back and come back with just as many men as they were before. It is more like Ikalak or Sandalak can't afford to attack each other because the moment they do that Taselak will just walk over both realms.
This stalemate won't break for awhile I am afraid.
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If I wanted to win wars by teaming up to take on the big boys, and measure my success in the form of regions which by your own admission are fairly useless anyway, I'd have stayed on the other islands. This is the War Island, fer feck's sake. Act a little like it!
Yet, with every passing day of you two ganging up on us, your victory becomes less and less glorious.
*yawn* Hmm ... now where have I heard arguments like this before ...
Oh wait, that's right! That's the same thing that Sandalak was saying when it was a Tassel/Ikal gang up on Sandalak.
Get real, Sacha. You know how these things go. When one realm gets too close to winning, the others gang up on it.
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Taselak has accomplished the most of the three realms on the War Island:
-Holding Toren Stronghold ever since the original region grab
Not true. You lost it, then took it back.
And, really, no one's really tried to take it from you since then. I mean, it's not like you've held off ravening hordes of Sandals and Ikkies determined to take it from you. I don't think anyone has ever even bothered to attack it.
Even if the stalemate is broken
Umm... This hasn't been a stalemate for a long time.
and we lose the 2 v 1 battle, I think us Tassies carry the spirit of the war island.
The island really has taken a turn for the better. It's turning out a lot better than it looked like it would. All three realms are doing a very good job of carrying on the fight.
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The island really has taken a turn for the better. It's turning out a lot better than it looked like it would. All three realms are doing a very good job of carrying on the fight.
Well, that's until one realm takes a second city, which in turn will attract many of the defeated realm's nobles, and it becomes a cakewalk because of the huge discrepancies in income and nobles.
And with the scales more or less balanced right now, it makes me wonder if we could ever see a proper 1v1v1, which to me is the big attraction of the War Island.
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Well, that's until one realm takes a second city, which in turn will attract many of the defeated realm's nobles, and it becomes a cakewalk because of the huge discrepancies in income and nobles.
And with the scales more or less balanced right now, it makes me wonder if we could ever see a proper 1v1v1, which to me is the big attraction of the War Island.
No, logically when ever 1 party is in the lead it is natural for the two others to band together. You see this in pretty much every game that allows multiplier free for all.
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Well, that's nothing a gentleman's agreement could not fix, is it?
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Well, that's nothing a gentleman's agreement could not fix, is it?
Which would last as long as the losing teams took to oust their rulers.
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Which would last as long as the losing teams took to oust their rulers.
Well THAT is something a few well-aimed lightning strikes could not fix.
Though I suppose that brings us into the realm of wishful thinking :P
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Well THAT is something a few well-aimed lightning strikes could not fix.
Though I suppose that brings us into the realm of wishful thinking :P
Yes, the concept of using lightning strikes to enforce your personal idea of what a 1v1v1 contest should look like is more then a bit fanciful.
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Capitals are the wealthiest regions on the island and there aren't enough nobles to fill all of the rural estates, so to a large extent peripheral regions are superfluous and can be exchanged freely without incurring much economic penalty. What matters are the capitals, and they are almost impervious.
My prediction is that there is going to be a long lasting stalemate situation, where economically superfluous regions are exchanged but the economic cores remain intact. This situation will persist until one realm massively screws up and loses its capital somehow.
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Capitals are the wealthiest regions on the island and there aren't enough nobles to fill all of the rural estates, so to a large extent peripheral regions are superfluous and can be exchanged freely without incurring much economic penalty. What matters are the capitals, and they are almost impervious.
My prediction is that there is going to be a long lasting stalemate situation, where economically superfluous regions are exchanged but the economic cores remain intact. This situation will persist until one realm massively screws up and loses its capital somehow.
Cities don't produce much money when they are starving.
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Some rurals are necessary for food and for providing estates to excess nobles, who can't all be housed in the capital. That is why I said 'to a large extent' and not a total extent.
Due to logistics, it should be easy to maintain a ring of rurals around the capital. Those together with the capital would compose a healthy core. I think that in order to break such a core, a very prolonged and concerted effort by two realms against a third would be necessary. Even then I am not sure; the logistical advantages of the defending realm increase as the battle fronts move closer to its capital, and it seems plausible that those defensive advantages could become so great as to preclude further progress by the attackers. I could see a whack-a-mole situation developing, where the attackers capture regions during their offensives, only to lose them during their refits, only to capture them again during their offenses, and so on. All because their refit times would be much longer than the defenders'.
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Some rurals are necessary for food and for providing estates to excess nobles, who can't all be housed in the capital. That is why I said 'to a large extent' and not a total extent.
Due to logistics, it should be easy to maintain a ring of rurals around the capital. Those together with the capital would compose a healthy core. I think that in order to break such a core, a very prolonged and concerted effort by two realms against a third would be necessary. Even then I am not sure; the logistical advantages of the defending realm increase as the battle fronts move closer to its capital, and it seems plausible that those defensive advantages could become so great as to preclude further progress by the attackers. I could see a whack-a-mole situation developing, where the attackers capture regions during their offensives, only to lose them during their refits, only to capture them again during their offenses, and so on. All because their refit times would be much longer than the defenders'.
Yes, that is kind of how the game is designed. Irombrozia held out in this way for a significant time, though they did get some outside assistance. It ensures on regular islands that it is not too easy to destroy other realms, and gives some ability for smaller realms to defend themselves against larger realms. The reality has always been that with the walls a capital has, it will take significantly larger forces to crack them. Often what will happen is two realms will team up and wear the other down to their capital, but then struggle to take the walls. Eventually that alliance cracks, they start fighting and will give the down trodden realm space to rebuild. The war island tends to a victory eventually, but mostly it just tends to a long long war.
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The game wasn't designed with estates or one-city realms in mind.
The current War Island incarnation is unprecedented, so the way it unfolds will be a bit different from how it did before. I'm only predicting what might happen.
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The game wasn't designed with estates or one-city realms in mind.
The current War Island incarnation is unprecedented, so the way it unfolds will be a bit different from how it did before. I'm only predicting what might happen.
In details perhaps, but the system has comparisons with in game events from other continents. It takes a significantly larger force to take on a capital so in general you end up with a long drawn out process. You can try rushing the walls time after time hoping to wear them down faster then they can be rebuilt, hoping that your refit is fast enough to prevent the enemy making many gains after repelling your force. Or you can attempt to simply destroy the regions surrounding them cutting off their food supply. Neither method is fast.
As I pointed out, what you describe is simply the common reality when trying to completely obliterate and enemy in circumstances were you do not significantly out gun them.
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Depopulation will ensure that it doesn't drag on indefinitely. You can kill the population much faster than it can replenish.
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Depopulation will ensure that it doesn't drag on indefinitely. You can kill the population much faster than it can replenish.
Except peasants are so strong you do not want to try depopulating a region without bringing your whole army :o
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Except peasants are so strong you do not want to try depopulating a region without bringing your whole army :o
So you can do that by bringing your whole army.
It only means that you can only depopulate a region per week or so. Sure, you can't destroy half a realm because you won one big battle as you could before, but it's not like it became impossible to kill peasants.
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So you can do that by bringing your whole army.
It only means that you can only depopulate a region per week or so. Sure, you can't destroy half a realm because you won one big battle as you could before, but it's not like it became impossible to kill peasants.
You do not want to fight a horde of peasants after winning a battle or before a major battle. Battles are so close you can't afford to take unnecessary damage :/
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You do not want to fight a horde of peasants after winning a battle or before a major battle. Battles are so close you can't afford to take unnecessary damage :/
In the current situation, you're right. And that's perfect! In the presence of roughly equal forces, you don't want to amplify any small difference that may appear, otherwise the war islands would be short-lived and not much better than a dice roll.
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Yes, and we are talking when the odds are not nearly so close, when a realm is beaten back to the point of relying on its capital for survival. Once that is the case using looting in the region around the capital might indeed hasten the eventual fall of the capital.
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Though you also have to take in account the RC's in these border regions, if one of the realm loses a lot of its borders then they will have less troops total to refit with, which means that the other side gets a bigger and bigger advantage with slightly more gold, more troops to choose from, everyone can recruit max as long as they have gold. And this means that they get more and more RC's and gold from those regions they can take with this boost. So the capital cant stand out indefinetly because they will run out of people in the RC's.
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Though you also have to take in account the RC's in these border regions, if one of the realm loses a lot of its borders then they will have less troops total to refit with, which means that the other side gets a bigger and bigger advantage with slightly more gold, more troops to choose from, everyone can recruit max as long as they have gold. And this means that they get more and more RC's and gold from those regions they can take with this boost. So the capital cant stand out indefinetly because they will run out of people in the RC's.
Again, realm have defended their capitals for months. So long as you can keep producing the gold to keep the walls repaired you have a good advantage.
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One thing in the war island will be different though: you can't get food from anyone. They will be no behind the scenes food sales to keep you going. And capitals cannot support themselves. Once you lose your rural regions, you're doomed.
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One thing in the war island will be different though: you can't get food from anyone. They will be no behind the scenes food sales to keep you going. And capitals cannot support themselves. Once you lose your rural regions, you're doomed.
That would have been the case but not with the new food system. You can't starve a city out.
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Reduced rations cause problems that build up and increase over time. Running a city on permanent half rations should not be possible. Eventually the region should revolt.
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I guess the question is how long is eventually
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That is true. Offhand, i dont know how short a city is toward supplying itself. If it produces over half, then it might be able to go for quite a while. Less than half, and it shouldn't take too long. Production will tank, and then you lose income and recruits. Infrastructure shuts down. Everyone starts to die, then the realm dies.
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Ete City at half ration was getting surplus of food. I maintained that for a week and a half and I didn't really feel much difference.
Then again, Selis has 100 bureaucracy so sitting in the city and doing courtier works might make a difference.
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Sandalak city doesn't produce enough to support half rations. That means the city would have to swap back and forth between half and quarter.
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Sandalak city doesn't produce enough to support half rations. That means the city would have to swap back and forth between half and quarter.
Sandalak is the worst city on the continent. Consumes most food due to having most population and produces least gold.
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Then it's a good thing the best team has it. ;) ;D
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Then it's a good thing the best team has it. ;) ;D
Indeed ;D
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Cant lose with Immortal's like Kurlock, Judge's like Saliv and Great warriors like Klas, Misty, Enkimahru and all the other people who have wounded anyone, actualy cant lose with anyone that is in Sandalak :3
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Cant lose with Immortal's like Kurlock, Judge's like Saliv and Great warriors like Klas, Misty, Enkimahru and all the other people who have wounded anyone, actualy cant lose with anyone that is in Sandalak :3
Pride comes before a fall, so stop ruining my chances people.
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Unfortunately Ikalak and Sandalak are like fabled scorpion and tortoise trying to traverse the ocean that is Taselak.
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Unfortunately Ikalak and Sandalak are like fabled scorpion and tortoise trying to traverse the ocean that is Taselak.
Sayeth the realm that actually lost an offensive battle to Ikalak.
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Taselak is controlling the field of battle and Ikalak's in full retreat. Hardly a defeat.
I have no idea how Ikalak manages to always get completely wrecked even when it technically wins a battle.
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Taselak is controlling the field of battle and Ikalak's in full retreat. Hardly a defeat.
I have no idea how Ikalak manages to always get completely wrecked even when it technically wins a battle.
Last man standing. If you have significant units that retreat with little damage, or you move in reinforcements then of course you might have more troops in the area after the battle. They didn't TECHNICALLY win, your troops where either killed or fled, thus they control the field in game mechanic terms, though they have wisely decided to withdraw.
There is a large difference between losing a battle, and losing a campaign. Tasalak lost the battle, Ikalak potentially lost the campaign.