BattleMaster Community
BattleMaster => Development => Topic started by: Nellamkuyzhil on December 10, 2015, 04:43:16 PM
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Imagine a future for BM where you are fighting bandits, raiders and rebels during peacetime (and even more during war time. Especially long wars as discontent rises and the enemy works to encourage domestic discord) rather than those silly fantasy creatures who apart from being irritating, also remind you that you're playing a fantasy game and not a medieval army commander simulator.
I think replacing the creatures would provide the following benefits at least :-
1) As stated more immersion. You feel like a feudal lord who can't afford to fight long wars as domestic trouble makers grow stronger and stronger if they aren't put down.
2) more opportunity for fun as you can sponsor raider bands, and give support to existing bandits in your enemy's realm so that they grow in strength, men and equipment.
3) adventurers can now fight these raiders and bandits and thus earn gold and loot in a much more believable, sensible and immersive manner.
At least one island can be set aside for those who do not have a soft corner for fantasy but do want domestic ai targets to fight from time to time.
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Nope. BattleMaster is, in fact, a fantasy game, and it will stay that way.
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That said, the stable islands of EC and Colonies have much less undead/monsters. And the war island.
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Nope. BattleMaster is, in fact, a fantasy game, and it will stay that way.
I find this reply irritating more than anything else. Its sounds like something religious people would say.
This is the feature request forum.
And Its in our best interest to change the game for the best.
If islands can be drowned, maybe a few things can be renamed? I'm not even asking for new mechanics. Just change undead to bandits and monsters to raiders/reavers. Maybe then multiply their numbers by ten. So 'ten monsters' become a 'hundred raiders' , same cs too.
Too much to ask? I don't think
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To put it in another way. BM is a low-fantasy game. It says it right on the front page. You knew that signing up. Thus, why should, after 14 years of the game's existence, to decide that we're stripping out fantasy because you don't prefer it? Low-fantasy is an element of the game. What is actually improved for the game besides switching back and forth roleplay text?
It's not too much to ask. No, its not difficult. But those are not the sole metrics to consider a feature by. I've come up with many ideas over the years that weren't difficult, but were decided unworthy.
We're open to suggestions and there's a huge list we sift through as-is. But *this* specific thing is not going to change. Not to mention, we're not going to cease having daimons and other such magical events.
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I do vaguely recall an option where you could sponsor anarchists or something in the lands of other people with your family wealth (or something like that) right?
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I do vaguely recall an option where you could sponsor anarchists or something in the lands of other people with your family wealth (or something like that) right?
Yes. Rebels in the one region where your family has their ancestral home.
But *this* specific thing is not going to change. Not to mention, we're not going to cease having daimons and other such magical events.
Why?
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Because that was what was decided by the game's creator and there's no real *gain* for the change. There are plenty of things that I or Anaris would love to change ourselves, but do not, because it is Tom's game and there are certain things he has decided. This immediate change of monsters/undead bandit/highwaymen flavour text is simple. But scrolls are low fantasy, so you'll want them gone too? And...where do we stop? See, its not so simple if we keep applying the idea.
BattleMaster derives from an older email-based game, SpellMaster, that involved wizards, magic, and spell councils. It's just a part of what BM's history and what BM is. But, for what its worth, BM was founded as *low* fantasy with SpellMaster providing the *high* fantasy side.
EDIT: Also, this is not what BM as a game is aiming towards - "medieval army commander simulator"
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I wouldn't really care either way. I wouldn't have a problem changing it on one island. But it "feels" right on BT and Dwilight to have monsters and undead. That leaves EC, where we've had them for almost 15 years. Seems a bit silly to change them now.
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EDIT: Also, this is not what BM as a game is aiming towards - "medieval army commander simulator"
But why not?!? Seems to be the games defining feature if you ask me. I certainly play bm only cause it allows me to be a medieval troop commander.
Maybe we should try and improve on that aspect and not place so much weight on it's history.
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The emphasis was put on simulator for a reason. Yes, medieval commander of troops is a core part of BM. But we're not a combat simulator for the medieval period that happened on Earth. We're more interested in providing good game mechanics than in simulating medieval conditions.
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I think that bandits would be a great addition, but the monsters and undead have been a staple of the game for ages and seem to be fairly well handled. Calling the monsters and undead "twilight style" is kind of embarrassing too, since they have absolutely nothing to do with Twilight. Not even remotely.
They also predate Twilight by several years.
But why not?!? Seems to be the games defining feature if you ask me. I certainly play bm only cause it allows me to be a medieval troop commander.
Maybe we should try and improve on that aspect and not place so much weight on it's history.
You should check out Mount&Blade: Warband then, it has a number of fantasy mods too but the main game and many mods are varying degrees of historical realism. Especially the 1257 AD mod.
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Twilight?! Wtf... I said Dwilight.
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I don't see why this should be changed. Why should this be changed anyway? It doesn't bother anyone and this game doesn't even perfectly replicate the medieval period anyway. If you really want a more medieval feeling game, you can give Crusader Kings 2 a shot ;)
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Twilight?! Wtf... I said Dwilight.
I was referring to OP's poll options.
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Ha! I'm using the mobile version of the forum, and didn't even know there was a poll. :D
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Twilight as in that sparkling vampire?
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Twilight as in that sparkling vampire?
Also werewolves.
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I gotta say, props to Anaris and Vita for taking this seriously despite the stupid Twilight additions to the poll.
Half echoing others here, I've got no problem with undead and monsters - they're basic fare in most roleplaying games of this time and real medieval texts have stories and such about them. What's to say our nobles aren't simply making stuff up because they believe in the gods or want to look impressive among their fellow nobles?
That said, having raiders and bandits beyond the occasional flavor text would be cool, too. The problem is that they'd always have to be tiny bands, by definition. They'd never organize into an army in the way we fight undead. Monsters are a different beast (a-ha) because they DO use small units with higher stats.
And finally... "immersion"? I'm not sure that word is really applicable when the game is mostly text-based and there's no real attempt to disguise that you're playing from a web browser. I might begin to see your point if each letter had a paper background image.
Then again, this could all be an elaborate joke post and we look silly for taking it seriously. :o
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Seems a bit silly to change them now.
ROFL! What sir, is your opinion on sinking whole islands?? That's not so silly i presume? Reminds me of the saying outlaws have in my country - kill one, they hang you, kill a dozen, that'll get you major respect, a cash reward and a government job when you decide to surrender.
you can give Crusader Kings 2 a shot ;)
Spent a good portion of my life playing ck2. Tried almost every mod. Don't like the got mod. Also, this isn't the crusader kings forum now is it?? :-p :-p :-p
You should check out Mount&Blade: Warband then. Especially the 1257 AD mod.
We could totally talk about improving m&b. On its own forum. But look at me! Here I am talking about improving bm on bm's forum. So why should I care if there's a better game out there (which iv spent half my life on BTW)?? Pretty soon when I talk about improving the graphics in whatever minute way possible, people will start telling me about this game called elder scrolls . . .
despite the stupid Twilight additions to the poll.
I'm sorry I hurt your feelings by referring to twilight in a bad light. I think it's a great great cultural movement of itself. I loved that scene where the sixteen year old actresses is depicted jacking off and all. Must be a day of liberation for paedophiles around the world. And Catholic priests.
What's to say our nobles aren't simply making stuff up because they believe in the gods or want to look impressive among their fellow nobles?
Wtf are you taking about man?!?! All nobles making stuff about this to each other. And then peasentsaking this "stuff up" en masse. And then dying en masse from things conjured up by their own fantasy eh? You're high is my medical opinion on this matter.
That said, having raiders and bandits beyond the occasional flavor text would be cool, too. The problem is that they'd always have to be tiny bands, by definition. They'd never organize into an army in the way we fight undead. Monsters are a different beast (a-ha) because they DO use small units with higher stats.
So the undead with their rotten brains and lack of emotions can organize. Also, wild beasts can organize themselves into packs. But humans can't? I don't want to waste time in real world examples here. Plenty around.
And finally... "immersion"? I'm not sure that word is really applicable when the game is mostly text-based and there's no real attempt to disguise that you're playing from a web browser.
Did you really just say you don't think bm should care about immersion?? A game that promotes RPing might not be the best place to dismiss immersion.
and real medieval texts have stories and such about them.
Example of acceptable logic.
The emphasis was put on simulator for a reason. Yes, medieval commander of troops is a core part of BM. But we're not a combat simulator for the medieval period that happened on Earth. We're more interested in providing good game mechanics than in simulating medieval conditions.
Best reply so far in my humble opinion. Still, since my proposal doesn't interfere with providing good mechanics in any way . . . also, maybe if enough people were interested in stimulating medieval conditions rather than sticking to what's been done in the past . . ?? After all, not everybody agrees with the way bm has been. and maybe it's time to change some stuff to accommodate certain people. I'm not saying just me, I want to find out if there is support for such a demand. Hence the poll.
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I realize I'm feeding the troll here, but I did want to address the "immersion" question: No, I'm not saying BM should ignore "immersion", or in better terms, its "flavor". It wouldn't be the same game if it didn't incorporate the feudal elements it does.
What I'm debating is if one can truly be immersed in a lightweight game like BM and its dedication to "you get out what you put in". I guess some people get very invested in their characters, sure, but that's not really caused by the game mechanics. Besides, the term is used in all kinds of games, including those that are much more outlandish than this. It's less about what things are called and more about how much it makes you care about your character's actions and empathize with them as they experience the corresponding consequences.
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Sorry to break it to you but unless your suggestion is ground breaking good or very essential to improving the game as a whole, it won't be implemented. Why? Because there are years worth of suggestions which have been approved waiting to be implemented yet we only have a handful - maybe just two or three - VOLUNTEERS working on them on their SCARCE FREE TIME.
Does your suggestion have any significant impact on the game? Will it improve the core experience of the game?
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Imagine a future for BM where you are fighting bandits, raiders and rebels during peacetime (and even more during war time. Especially long wars as discontent rises and the enemy works to encourage domestic discord) rather than those silly fantasy creatures who apart from being irritating, also remind you that you're playing a fantasy game and not a medieval army commander simulator.
Well, guess what? You ARE playing a fantasy game and not a medieval army commander simulator.
If you decided to play Pac Man, don't complain it has ghosts.
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If islands can be drowned, maybe a few things can be renamed? I'm not even asking for new mechanics. Just change undead to bandits and monsters to raiders/reavers.
But they DO in fact, have their own mechanics. You might not notice if you don't look closely, but there is special code for both undead and monsters.
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Well I think it's quite clear that nothing is going to change.
I'd just like to add my 2 cents and say that I like the Undead, Monsters and Daimon invasions. They've been a great chunk of fun in the past. There is much RP based on these creatures which would totally be lost if we suddenly rename them.
But I do think the best of Nellamkuyzhil for trying to spice things up and come with new ideas. Sometimes they will be met with criticism and a simple NO, perhaps sometimes something good comes out of these proposals, why not?
On a sidenote and totally off topic: Funny how our Honourable King Tom seems to have 0 Reputation power :P :D
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Well, guess what? You ARE playing a fantasy game and not a medieval army commander simulator.
I want to have my cake and eat it too. Hardly a reason to say no.
If you decided to play Pac Man, don't complain it has ghosts.
Will. Ghosts are cheesy and childish. Pacman with zombies or monsters will make much more sense today. It can be modded I think. Not sure .
But they DO in fact, have their own mechanics. You might not notice if you don't look closely, but there is special code for both undead and monsters.
But will the codes have to be changed drastically if all you need to do is rename them to bandits/raiders? (I don't know much about coding)
Also, there numbers can simply be multiplied as I mentioned above. I don't know if that's too tough. I know I don't know much about coding and something that looks easy will be a nightmare to code so is this really the case here?
Sorry to break it to you but unless your suggestion is ground breaking good or very essential to improving the game as a whole, it won't be implemented. Why? Because there are years worth of suggestions which have been approved waiting to be implemented yet we only have a handful - maybe just two or three - VOLUNTEERS working on them on their SCARCE FREE TIME.
Does your suggestion have any significant impact on the game? Will it improve the core experience of the game?
This I can accept. The only reason I suggested what I have is cause
a.) I thought (still think) it'll be pretty easy to implement.
b) think it would make a much more enjoyable and immersive experience for people who think like me.
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I once suggested exactly the same thing. It got turned out very fast. Like I said above, unless this name change has a very convincing reason behind it, which it doesn't other than it will improve the RP experience of some people, it just won't happen sadly.
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This request has now been firmly denied by both the current active devs working on the game, and the game's creator.
The posts by the thread's creator are degenerating into borderline trolling.
This thread no longer has a useful purpose, and as such, I will be locking it.