BattleMaster Community
BattleMaster => BM General Discussion => Topic started by: DoctorHarte on April 13, 2011, 09:38:17 AM
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I'm curious to what part medals play in the game other than an indication of a player's trust, fun, and role-play abilities with other players. Also, how many medals are in circulation at one time?
I just noticed I received my 5th medal! I need some more blue ones, damn it. But Ibladesh is rather lame for roleplays.
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Anyone else had that awkward moment when they're scrolling up and down messages and they accidentally middle click, say, a roleplaying medal for a player they've never seen speak? Wasted a couple of medals that way.
Sometimes I don't use medals exactly as directed. I might see/experience a blinding bit of RP and go to award a medal, only finding trust medals available to me. I'll award the trust medal anyway feeling the effort nevertheless deserves some form of recognition. Perhaps that distorts the medal system somewhat?
Either way, a medal or two means that you are, indisputably, a good egg. It's always reassuring to see.
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Medals are an indication that you, as a player, have been trustworthy with the spirit of the game, are a good roleplayer, and/or are just a generally positive and fun person to have around. It is not supposed to be a measure of characters. Also, lack of medals is not supposed to be a black mark against someone.
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Quite true. I've seen people with over a dozen medals who don't deserve any of them in my book, and others who should have over a dozen but don't seem to get them.
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should do something to encourage people to award those who deserve them. (like me ;))
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Anyone else had that awkward moment when they're scrolling up and down messages and they accidentally middle click, say, a roleplaying medal for a player they've never seen speak? Wasted a couple of medals that way.
Perhaps it would be useful to have an "Are you sure?" check?
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Here's another thought about medals. Are they as important in the long term? Do they really tell you anything about a player? I wouldn't, for example, say anyone should take my stack of medals at face value. The vast majority of my medals, I earned in the first few years of playing BattleMaster. In the last couple of years, I've earned one or two. No more than that.
I know the community is smaller now than it once was, but it seems if I was playing in the same manner today as I did some years ago, that I would have more medals. Okay, my current medals might show I have past form, but I don't RP as much now. There are lengthy periods in my play where I'm not really engaging with anyone.
Should medals represent the absolute potential of players for fun/trustworthiness/roleplay or should they be more a record of consistently good play in the fullness of time? Maybe medals should expire after a year or two in order to better reward continous efforts at being a good player?
It is not supposed to be a measure of characters. Also, lack of medals is not supposed to be a black mark against someone.
True, but having medals is much more reassuring medals than not having them. If I encounter a player who has been kicking out about as long as I have and they don't have any medals, it's hard to imagine that they engage with the game in a way that enriches other players experiences. I think you can make broad generalisations from the presence/absence of medals and sometimes it does affect your opinion.
Perhaps it would be useful to have an "Are you sure?" check?
If I recall correct, Tom's never been a big fan of offering such notifications. Though that would definitely be helpful.
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Here's another thought about medals. Are they as important in the long term? Do they really tell you anything about a player?
Their simple absence does not. But if it's, as you noted, a long-term player who has played in several different realms, I think they do.
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It'd probably do more good to check family history of what a player's character has done in the past if you want to gauge his "trustworthiness" or whatever.
Even now with character limits being partly determined by medals, I have some misgivings about it. So far no one has outright gone "Plz give me medals, want more chars!" or something of that nature, that I know of. Still, it does leave that door open.
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Even now with character limits being partly determined by medals, I have some misgivings about it. So far no one has outright gone "Plz give me medals, want more chars!" or something of that nature, that I know of. Still, it does leave that door open.
Indeed. I suspect that in the population of any other game it would have already been "gamed" and exploited...
That it hasn't (to our knowledge) is as a result of the combination of game nature, atmosphere and player base I wager.
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I give medals to people I enjoy having around and would like to see stick to the game. I find there's a sort of ambiguity over "fun" and "trust", though. I rarely every hand out roleplaying medals, as I never really see anything exceptional in the realms I play in.
Seems like the ones with the medals to give and the ones who deserve to be given them are not often enough in the same realms... Without wanting to be presumptious, I feel like I did much more roleplay than most other guys I see with many times the number of roleplaying medals I have. But since it's generally more difficult to give medals to people of your own realm and that my RPs tend to not reach the whole continent, it's rather understandable.
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it's generally more difficult to give medals to people of your own realm
Huh? What do you mean? I've never had any problem giving medals to realm-mates.
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Huh? What do you mean? I've never had any problem giving medals to realm-mates.
You need more medals-to-give to be able to give them to realm-mates than you do to be able to give them to people of other realms.
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You need more medals-to-give to be able to give them to realm-mates than you do to be able to give them to people of other realms.
I haven't had that problem in a while, but precisely as Timothy said. You need more medals to be able to give some to peers than you need to give some to foreigners.
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I haven't had that problem in a while, but precisely as Timothy said. You need more medals to be able to give some to peers than you need to give some to foreigners.
...Why is that? Aren't your realm mates the people you know best? I just can't understand the logic behind that.
As for the incoming medals tapering off, I personally do not bother to give medals to people who already have tons. What's the point? I would rather give them to under-recognized players (as determined by the medal system) whom I have found to be trustworthy, fun, or good RPers. In my opinion everyone should be able to give out medals, maybe once a month or something and at most one per other player (ever), with a minimum time in game before they can give out any. Some limits are good, but I don't care for the fact that you have to essentially be nominated by other players before being able to give out medals yourself. It makes it a closed system.
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...Why is that? Aren't your realm mates the people you know best? I just can't understand the logic behind that.
As for the incoming medals tapering off, I personally do not bother to give medals to people who already have tons. What's the point? I would rather give them to under-recognized players (as determined by the medal system) whom I have found to be trustworthy, fun, or good RPers.
I do much the same thing.
In my opinion everyone should be able to give out medals, maybe once a month or something and at most one per other player (ever), with a minimum time in game before they can give out any. Some limits are good, but I don't care for the fact that you have to essentially be nominated by other players before being able to give out medals yourself. It makes it a closed system.
This, I completely disagree with. Medals are not supposed to be democratic or evenly distributed. They are supposed to be distinguishing features whereby players who have demonstrated their positive influence on the game are recognized; they are inherently non-egalitarian, and to make them egalitarian defeats their purpose. I generally give medals to newer players, but occasionally to older ones who make new contributions: but if newer players don't make equal contributions, there's simply no reason they should be rewarded.
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In my opinion everyone should be able to give out medals, maybe once a month or something and at most one per other player (ever), with a minimum time in game before they can give out any. Some limits are good, but I don't care for the fact that you have to essentially be nominated by other players before being able to give out medals yourself. It makes it a closed system.
Yes, it is a closed system. That is absolutely deliberate and intended.
It prevents members of OOC cliques from loading each other up with medals so as to look more trustworthy, and ensures that medals flow, by and large, from one place: Tom.
Some of you may remember the old "trust level" system, where global trust flowed outward from Tom, and everyone could state that they trusted other players, thus generating personal and global trust levels for everyone. The medal system is partially an attempt to replace that with something a bit less...stigmatic, but it does have some of the same goals.
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The reason you need to have more medals to give to realm-mates than non-realm-mates, I figure, is to prevent all the medals from staying in the same place (or at least reduce the likelyness for this). To reduce the clique effect, to encourage people to give out medals other than just to their friends.
I believe I read something to this effect somewhere.
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Yes, it is a closed system. That is absolutely deliberate and intended.
It prevents members of OOC cliques from loading each other up with medals so as to look more trustworthy, and ensures that medals flow, by and large, from one place: Tom.
Some of you may remember the old "trust level" system, where global trust flowed outward from Tom, and everyone could state that they trusted other players, thus generating personal and global trust levels for everyone. The medal system is partially an attempt to replace that with something a bit less...stigmatic, but it does have some of the same goals.
That just makes it all the more prone to abuse, while keeping people who deserve medals left out in the dust. All it takes is one person from an OOC clique to get enough medals that they can give out medals to others from their clique. Then they begin giving it to other members of their clique until they can give out medals. It becomes a vicious cycle, fueling rather than stopping OOC cliques from giving out medals to others in their clique.
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Why do we really need medals anyway, except for those new character limits? I have met some players who were loads of fun but have almost no fun medals, and some players filled with medals whom I found it bizarre how they got so many.
As far as I'm concerned, those are just pretty decorations to show whether you can play that 4th character without donating.
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Why do we really need medals anyway, except for those new character limits? I have met some players who were loads of fun but have almost no fun medals, and some players filled with medals whom I found it bizarre how they got so many.
As far as I'm concerned, those are just pretty decorations to show whether you can play that 4th character without donating.
Because it feels good to receive them. You feel appreciated, and it strengthens your desire to keep playing when things are a bit down.
That's why I give them. To make people I like having around feel good.
Sure, it's not as if receiving a medal is the highlight of the year, but still. It feels good when you put a lot of time in a team game, and others recognize your contribution. We'd gain nothing by abolishing them.
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Because it feels good to receive them. You feel appreciated, and it strengthens your desire to keep playing when things are a bit down.
That's why I give them. To make people I like having around feel good.
Sure, it's not as if receiving a medal is the highlight of the year, but still. It feels good when you put a lot of time in a team game, and others recognize your contribution. We'd gain nothing by abolishing them.
Woah. I agree with Chénier. Is the end nigh?
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Woah. I agree with Chénier. Is the end nigh?
I'm with both of you. That's exactly why I do it, and as for people with medals that you can't understand now...There are a number of people who used to do more than they do now, and got medals for that old behavior. I've had various upswings and downswings, and I know some people who used to be my absolute favorites to play with who now barely hold court.
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Woah. I agree with Chénier. Is the end nigh?
I like to think it's more because of my vindictive/antagonizing attitude than the poor value of my arguments and ideas. Perhaps I was just less vindictive in this thread.
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I still feel that medals are a bit restricted.
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That just makes it all the more prone to abuse, while keeping people who deserve medals left out in the dust. All it takes is one person from an OOC clique to get enough medals that they can give out medals to others from their clique. Then they begin giving it to other members of their clique until they can give out medals. It becomes a vicious cycle, fueling rather than stopping OOC cliques from giving out medals to others in their clique.
But those initial medals came from somewhere...from someone who had medals and who thought that that person was fun to play with or trustworthy...which means that they deserved them. It would be almost impossible for some complete OOC person who only cared about their "OOC clan" and only played with them to ever get enough medals to pass them around to the clan.
You can't have it both ways...either your hypothetical person is an evil clanner or he's fun enough and open enough to get medals from people who have them already.
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But those initial medals came from somewhere...from someone who had medals and who thought that that person was fun to play with or trustworthy...which means that they deserved them. It would be almost impossible for some complete OOC person who only cared about their "OOC clan" and only played with them to ever get enough medals to pass them around to the clan.
You can't have it both ways...either your hypothetical person is an evil clanner or he's fun enough and open enough to get medals from people who have them already.
I like medals the way they are now (I would like two more of them but that is beside the point). So I would naturally be on your side in this one... but just so that all the cards are on the table I would like to point out that you can give away medals if you donate to the game even if you haven't received any.
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I like medals the way they are now (I would like two more of them but that is beside the point). So I would naturally be on your side in this one... but just so that all the cards are on the table I would like to point out that you can give away medals if you donate to the game even if you haven't received any.
Are you sure? I've donated, but haven't yet had the option to give any out. :o
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Are you sure? I've donated, but haven't yet had the option to give any out. :o
Yes I am sure, speaking from personal experience.
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Yes I am sure, speaking from personal experience.
Hmmm that's strange. I've got 3 medals and have donated, but no medal options as of yet. Ahh well. :)
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But those initial medals came from somewhere...from someone who had medals and who thought that that person was fun to play with or trustworthy...which means that they deserved them. It would be almost impossible for some complete OOC person who only cared about their "OOC clan" and only played with them to ever get enough medals to pass them around to the clan.
You can't have it both ways...either your hypothetical person is an evil clanner or he's fun enough and open enough to get medals from people who have them already.
It is said that the most evil are those who can appear to be most good...
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There is rarely such a clear cut divide, WarMaid, when dealing with OOC clans, especially when it can encompass groups that are completely different in outlook and how they play a game.
Also, a player can be both open and fun to play with, while at the same time being part of a group outside the game.
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There is rarely such a clear cut divide, WarMaid, when dealing with OOC clans, especially when it can encompass groups that are completely different in outlook and how they play a game.
Also, a player can be both open and fun to play with, while at the same time being part of a group outside the game.
The scary scenario was that if just one member of a wicked clan got enough medals, they'd spam them to their dastardly OOC crew who would then bounce them around between each other creating a super-medaled group of evil.
If someone is also engaged in /other/ realms and with /other/ people in the game and playing in such a way that they're earning medals from those people and realms...then I think that they are less likely to be the sort of player who makes a big effort to get their evil empire all medally. I also think that they are less likely to be the sort of player to participate in a true "OOC Clan".
I know that there are jerks out there who will try to game every system that there is, but I just can't see the Captain of the Evil League of Evil putting in the /effort/ it would take to make other players reward him...and if he did, would he still be evil?
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Um...yes? The worst are those who know how to make people think they're outstanding good people while secretly toying with everyone else who trusts them. It's great if they can play well with others in other realms, but if in the end they are doing it just to prop up their group of friends to control a realm absolutely, there is little excuse.
But in reality, who would seriously go to such effort in a free game? That is something I will never understand about the people who multi-cheat or seek to exploit everything. Even if you control an entire realm, or get a zillion gold, what of it? That won't automatically grant power. It's kind of like how Twinblade left after getting bored with the game because his multis controlled Aquilegia. Got his wish of having Flowrestown, but the wine is pretty sour when it's ill-gotten. Of course, that doesn't really stop some people who seem to have no tastebuds.
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Um...yes? The worst are those who know how to make people think they're outstanding good people while secretly toying with everyone else who trusts them. It's great if they can play well with others in other realms, but if in the end they are doing it just to prop up their group of friends to control a realm absolutely, there is little excuse.
But in reality, who would seriously go to such effort in a free game? That is something I will never understand about the people who multi-cheat or seek to exploit everything. Even if you control an entire realm, or get a zillion gold, what of it? That won't automatically grant power. It's kind of like how Twinblade left after getting bored with the game because his multis controlled Aquilegia. Got his wish of having Flowrestown, but the wine is pretty sour when it's ill-gotten. Of course, that doesn't really stop some people who seem to have no tastebuds.
I've always though it was a bit like winning a knife fight with a gun. Sure you've won, but it would end up feeling kind of hollow once you realise that no one respects the achievement, and eventually you end up sharing their view.
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It probably does feel empty, but somehow that doesn't stop people while they do it.
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I would assume it would only feel empty if you actually cared what the other people think. Let's face it, if you and your 30 clan buddies join the game and take over a realm, do you really think they care what the other players think? If they don't take part in any of the rest of the community, would they even know what the other players think?
They obviously don't care what the community thinks, because they don't take part in it. They only care what their clan buddies think.
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I would assume it would only feel empty if you actually cared what the other people think. Let's face it, if you and your 30 clan buddies join the game and take over a realm, do you really think they care what the other players think? If they don't take part in any of the rest of the community, would they even know what the other players think?
They obviously don't care what the community thinks, because they don't take part in it. They only care what their clan buddies think.
The prior posts were referring to one person with multiple accounts. Playing on your "own" tends to pale in a social game like BM after a while I'm sure.
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After a while, sure. But the damage would have already been done. I have only Aquilegia as a personal experience, but that was pretty much a realm that was subverted by some fool who was a bit myopic about taking over Flowrestown. Pity he never realized that the only meaning to those pixels on the map came from recognition of other players. Still, when all was said and done, that was that. He managed to ruin the realm for pretty much everyone involved.
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Ohhh Twinblade...
The most hilarious thing about that whole situation was how it was the constant arguing within SA that finally sent him over the edge and prompted him to write that 4,000 word tirade about how great he was and how much everyone else sucked.
Now if only we could debate every other multi-cheater in the game into oblivion...
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Allison is up to the challenge!
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Ohhh Twinblade...
The most hilarious thing about that whole situation was how it was the constant arguing within SA that finally sent him over the edge and prompted him to write that 4,000 word tirade about how great he was and how much everyone else sucked.
Now if only we could debate every other multi-cheater in the game into oblivion...
Thanks for reminding me about that letter, needed a good giggle ;D
http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Talk:Twinblade_Family
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His name should be like quadrupleblade or something more fitting... :(
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The Aquilegia thing was way more funny in my opinion. He had 8 nobles and controlled the whole realm. Yet was only able to field 2,000 cs at the peak. The sad part about the whole thing wasn't that he was a cheater. It was that he was cheating fairly successfully but he just sucked at the game. Aquilegia was fairly established at the time too. They had an impressive income, but he didn't do anything with it.
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The "right under Timothy Colletes nose" part in Twinblade's confession is hillarious. ;D