Aurvandil and D'Hara haven't been at war now for a while.Yeah, I have kinda been wondering why it's assumed D'hara will die when we are at a cease fire currently, though Aurvandil is known for declaring war on the fly, IMO.
and Aurvandil hate.
Terran on the other hand should have stuck with Asylon instead of throwing us under the bus.
The two of us could have fought off both the Astroists and Aurvandiil.
From what I heard ingame it's possible we'll leave D'Hara alive. Terran on the other hand...prepare the funerals pyres boys ;)
I hate Aurvandil. More than anything ever.
Honestly, I don't want Terran to stop fighting until we're able to whip some discipline into our army. Terran needs to fight a real war, even if we lose, just so we can reprogram our army from "routine monster clearing missions" to "real fighting force." We'll see if we can accomplish that....
Wouldn't that have been more preferable with Kabrinskia? As you had fairly similar army size, which would empathise the importance of strategy, unit organisation and personal discipline as key and integral to winning each battle. Unless Aurvandil is better due to the "higher danger factor" since Aurvandil's armies don't mess around.
Except Terran had no reason to fight Kabrinskia after the peace terms they got. Terran has lots of reasons to fight Aurvandil– first and foremost, the occupation of Paisly, Paisland, Maeotis, Evanburg, Kydonia, Gallaecia, and Celtiberia.
Oh well Aurvandil won't be keeping Paisly for much longer, which we only took as a reaction to Terranese territorial advance into the fortified position of Paisland. We can't let Terran hold a Motte and Bailey on the bottleneck border, especially if Terran does start bringing down the northerners, it would give you scope to campaign into Aurvandil with relative safety against Aurvandilan counter attack.
Honestly, I don't want Terran to stop fighting until we're able to whip some discipline into our army. Terran needs to fight a real war, even if we lose, just so we can reprogram our army from "routine monster clearing missions" to "real fighting force." We'll see if we can accomplish that....
Also, Terran scarcely had a reason to fight Aurvandil considering the peace terms we were working out with Barca, which put everything to Barca's favour and largely left the terms to their choosing.
Maybe the 'moot shouldn't have sent spies to cause dissent in Luria.
Just sayin.
Heh, do you mean Luria also fell for the "send a letter to someoneB allegedly from someoneA to someoneC taking about a takedown in somewhereD", like the Zuma against the Moot? After the first time you think we'd learn and be smarter a bit :p
Sorry. Not buying it. Your actions during the war showed nothing but self-interest and disregard for your allies. Even your allies say that.
Uh... yes. You keep bringing up how "Terran betrayed your friendship" and how "the Moot is poor communicators" and you're the one who brought all of this back in a thread unrelated to it just to say "na na, look how dumb you were you should stuck with me and we would have beaten the world!!"
You do care. Because you literally can't get off of the topic of this alternate reality you have constructed in which Terran, and everyone else, betrayed you. But mostly Terran. Somehow. Even though we didn't change our stance throughout the whole war. And you did. Multiple times. In tiny time spans. Multiple times. But we were wrong. Yeah.
Actually, this was a thread about the Maroccidental war.
So... how 'bout Paisly?
I guess both sides now are racing for their refits?
I imagine Terran are, but Aurvandil can afford to delay since we now have the Motte and Bailey in Paisland, and Terran can at best bring south 12,000 C.S. and usually they bring very little infantry and usually the same amount in Cavalry.
Though, it'll be interesting to see how things plays out once Paisly secedes and either side can either go to war with the new realm to fight the other, or go through Barca which seems to be struggling just to exist at the moment, which should be soon since Aurvandil likes to give its cities the boot as soon as possible and tell them to make it on their own and to stop free loading on the Commonwealth.
Indeed, if/when you spin off Paisly, that'll be a very interesting dynamic.
That said, I do think Aurvandil is overtrusting in infantry. In battles where the wind doesn't screw up the archers, we have inflicted substantively heavier casualties on you than you have on us. Admittedly, that weather factor does add a major risk element– but I can't help thinking that your lack of cav and much ranged power is gonna come back to bite you if we ever get in a situation with CS-parity.
I can confirm this. I had to lead Enweil's archer heavy army against Riombara and we still managed to repel Riombara, even when we had 3k less than them. But mostly the weather in BM isn't so great. I'd rather invest in getting cavalry units and constantly repeat charge/retreat tactic.
Infantry are more reliable especially when you have as much high quality infantry as Aurvandil is. An archer army may get lucky and beat them in one battle but it's a flip of the coin whether they are any good or not. I think, unless someone get's just an unbelievable cav center or two that very few other compositions could beat the infantry mass. Look what the Romans did with elite infantry and all their other units being pretty mediocre.
Actually, this was a thread about the Maroccidental war.
So... how 'bout Paisly?
I guess both sides now are racing for their refits?
I'd also tend to say that the bits of cavalry and archers are much more effective in an infantry-heavy army than in any other composition.
Archers can get a few good shots, but they get totally pwnt once in melee.
Indeed, if/when you spin off Paisly, that'll be a very interesting dynamic.
That said, I do think Aurvandil is overtrusting in infantry. In battles where the wind doesn't screw up the archers, we have inflicted substantively heavier casualties on you than you have on us. Admittedly, that weather factor does add a major risk element– but I can't help thinking that your lack of cav and much ranged power is gonna come back to bite you if we ever get in a situation with CS-parity.
Egamma: removed Glaumring comment at his request.
So how much CS is Aurvandil bringing every time anyway?
Indeed, if/when you spin off Paisly, that'll be a very interesting dynamic.
That said, I do think Aurvandil is overtrusting in infantry. In battles where the wind doesn't screw up the archers, we have inflicted substantively heavier casualties on you than you have on us. Admittedly, that weather factor does add a major risk element– but I can't help thinking that your lack of cav and much ranged power is gonna come back to bite you if we ever get in a situation with CS-parity.
and the only time they do anything is mass wars where they simply overwhelm their opponents by sheer numbers. Which is just boring for everyone,
If Terran had 50 nobles like Aurvandil does, it would be a completely different war. Aurvandil would be losing. Badly.
Hm. So you hate big realms, huh? Hate Astrum cause they are soooo big, huh? Love Aurvandil, right? You realize Aurvandil has almost twice the nobles of Astrum? Yeah. What?
Hm... interesting you would say that while simultaneously conquering the Maroccidens via your extreme numerical advantage.
What do you care if they bore themselves?
Had you not went rambling like a madman, blundering into Kabrinskia, they'd never have even bothered themselves with you.
If the North sets themselves up in a way that bores them, it's their own problem. Otherwise, they must be doing something right if so many people remain there.
Mostly the church is keeping them busy. Senseless talks... Tournaments kept me occupied for a year then that got old when I realized it is almost impossible to reach 100% swordfighting as a noble :(
Gotta say, Southern realms do seem more energetic.
Yeah that's cute but no.
Are you trying to square up to me? It's almost like you're trying to pick a fight in the same way a chav would, obnoxiously shouting "Yeah, what?!" into some one's face. Yeah we get it, you hate Aurvandil because of an OOC grudge big whoop.
Quite, but the difference is, I set up free realms, and I conquer defensively as a reaction to the aggression of other realms.
The theocracies are not free. They fear.
Meh... the theocracies aren't afraid. So far, there's nothing to be afraid of. What they are, is bored. Which you would think would make it easier to get them going to fight a war. But thts proving very difficult.
We are, unfortunately, a victim of our great success. And yet, not successful enough in keeping people focused and pointed in the same direction. We wiped out everyone around us and replaced the enemies with friends. We spawned loads of realms, but stayed friends with just about all of them.
Why not? It would be absolutely different. And if we had 50 nobles, we would own your infantry only army. Even with half the nobles you have we do some pretty substantial damage relative to what would be done if you all used normal army compositions. Now, maybe you would wise up and start using archers if we had 50 nobles. But if we kept the same army compositions, and had similar activity rates (big IF there), we would win most every battle.
Am I trying to square up to you? I don't really know what you mean. But that comment was direct at Glaumring and how dumb his reasoning was. I get he doesn't like Astrum for one reason or another, but likes Aurvandil. It simply doesn't make sense that that reason would be "Astrum is big" because Aurvandil is a lot bigger.
The Astrocracies don't set up free realms? Just because they are mostly allied with each other doesn't mean they aren't "free." They all do basically whatever they want individually.
You.. conquer... defensively? :o
So does Aurvandil, that's why they want to set up moar colonies.
And so does Luria. They've heard too many legends of the Krakken, D'Hara's flagship.
That implies we fear a fight, we just begrudge the necessity of it when it's wars we don't choose to fight.
Setting up new realms means we won't have to fight, or have a war forced on us so long as they stand in the way as a neutral zone. It allows us to maintain our isolation.
You erroneously believe that a new realm in Paisly could somehow do something to prevent northern realms from sailing to your lands.
There's nothing that anyone in Paisly can do to prevent northern troops from sailing south, and sailing would be the most logical path for any non-moot realm to attack you. There's no such thing as a neutral zone. A buffer state between yourselves and Terran, sure, but no more.
Don't y'all see what Medicant is trying to allude to? He is going to fight the Zuma, conquer them, and give their lands to me. Duh! Anyways, boss I want to get out of paisly ASAP place smells like fish. can we get back to defensively conquering? :P
Doubt Aurvandil will let the stronghold with their best infantry RC succeed lol
As for Zuma... can anyone really get rid of them?
We don't field an Infantry only army, we have a large and powerful ranged Special Forces contingent, and very limited archers. But, I don't think you would win on a strategic level, Madina even with nearly three times as many nobles as Aurvandil had, when Aurvandil was starving and down to three regions couldn't beat us. Even after they got support from the Caerwyn nobles and the Grand Duchy of Fissoa they still couldn't beat us. Aurvandil grew up fighting realms with more nobles, more gold, better recruitment centres and stronger economies well supported by allies, whilst having none of those ourselves. Thus, the core Orvandeaux leadership are the kings of getting by on nothing and going far with very little, we can put ourselves in a situation where we are out gunned and be confident of victory. Which is why I find it hard to believe that Terran would be able to match us even if you had the same number of nobles, Aurvandil's strength has never been in its numbers, never. But our strength allowed us to bring forth large forces over time. Plus, no realm I have seen has the same stomach Aurvandil does for extremely bloody wars, back in the day every two-three weeks or so we'd lead 2500 men on a suicide mission on Tower Fatmilak just to force Madina to keep spending gold on fortifications and to stop them from taking the fight to us. If it comes to it we can just grind our faces against your sword long enough for it to snap, or the moment it shows any weakness we'll exploit in it an instant, Aurvandil is powerful because we pick our battles, we only fight when we know for sure it will complete an objective, and we are powerful because we always go for the kill immediately. No foreplay, as Barca and D'Hara learnt the hard way in Rettleville and Paisly.
People make the mistake of assuming we simply overwhelm our opponents, when it's a case of we choose battles we know we can win, or that in defeat we will come out better strategically. Which is what I was advising Glaumring to do in Asylon, since he seemed stuck in the mindset of fighting battles when you aren't sure you can win, just because the enemy army is there, same with Terran actually, against us and Kabrinskia. Which is what Summerdale did in the north as well.
Squaring up is when you stand ridiculously close to some one, square your shoulders and pick a fight, usually by shouting something obnoxious like "Yeah what" in their face. Which just seemed like what you were doing.
Glaumring likes Aurvandil because we conquer, but we then hand that land out on a whim for people to do with as they please, create what they like without interference. We don't just hold onto it, or give it to people we know will be our allies and support us. Hell, Aurvandil will likely end up fighting Falkirk, or the new Paisly realm if we ever end up in peace time.
Well, I mean "not free" as in they are set up and are instantly just apart of the Astocratic federation, it makes little difference if they're a new realm or in their old one, they're still friends with the same people, subservient to the same goals, and thus, not free to pursue a completely independent path, whether they want to or not. That, and I am always under the assumption that the new realms in the north are only ever set up on the condition that they do ally, and that they are subservient to the dominant religion, and do maintain the peace. Whereas in Aurvandil, you could openly declare to Mendicant that you would fight a war with him and he'd just say "Come back when you're big enough for me to feel it" and still hand you a mandate for a new realm. With Madina City Mendicant literally just said "Who wants a new realm" then picked whoever was more convenient at the time and let them create whatever they wanted without Mendicant giving any input or conditions whatsoever. With Paisly he pretty much handed it to Florence because she was the former ruler of Madina, a woman, and too licentious to attend his banquets with any decorum, and he said "Do whatever you want so long as you do it fast and I don't have to pay for it". Anyone in Aurvandil can make a new realm of their choosing since Mendicant basically picks them on a whim, if Aurvandil ends up conquering a city it's almost guaranteed Mendicant is going to mandate a noble to make a new realm and to do it before it becomes inconvenient to him.
Can we please immortalize the doctrine of "defensive conquest"? Seems a bit, erm... paradoxical...
Ya know, it's like Iraq. America Defensively Conquered it.
Can we please immortalize the doctrine of "defensive conquest"? Seems a bit, erm... paradoxical...
Terran and D'Hara don't really like the Zuma... if he can show that he can beat up the Zuma, we might just help him. ;)
Sure, I'll give it you that you all are resourceful. No one argues against that I don't think. You are so resourceful and active to the point of a lot of controversy and suspicion around it.
However, I would posit that the war between Aurvandil and Madina was fundementally different in that it was all focused on one small bottle necked choke point. This changes a lot.
Nevertheless, I won't argue the hypothetical war between Terran and Aurvandil any longer. Was a little silly to bring up in the first place, I guess.
--
So, this new realm in Paisly... you have no intention of defending it, then? So you're conquering it so Terran can't have it, then are going to split it off, and then sit by while Terran reconquers it? Seems... silly.
Can we please immortalize the doctrine of "defensive conquest"? Seems a bit, erm... paradoxical...
There is a clear distinction between defensively conquering a land, for obviously defensive reasons, and aggressively conquering a land for aggressive agendas.
Because in one you invade and conquer their land and annex it as your own or to form a colony, and in the other, you invade and conquer their land and annex it as your own or to form a colony.
Yeah, anyone can over simplify anything to try and fail to make a point
Why not say there is no difference between being aggressive and defensive because both involve some form of confrontation? "There's no difference in being attacked, and being the one attacked, because in one situation there's some kind of confrontation involved and in the other, you are involved in some kind of confrontation."
Ask the ones being conquered whether they think there's a difference.
That'd imply their opinion is relevant.
Ah, I get it now!
When your neighbor is agressive towards you, you fight a defensive war.
When you neighbor is not agressive towards you, you fight a defensive war.
The difference is only in their opinion, therefore not relevant.
Genius!
Not even sure how you managed to work that out.Does it matter? His opinion isn't really relevant. :P
Mendicant likes the Zuma in his own weird way, don't get him wrong he considers them little more than wildlife, but they have the same sort of attitude when it comes to war. I'm half sure Aurvandil may be able to beat the Zuma, but then that presumes the Zuma can be beaten, and not just spawn new hordes nigh indefinitely. It's on my list of things to try if Aurvandil ever gets substantial peace time to build up our infrastructure, store some reserve gold and prepare for war, which we've never had. After all, Haktoo is just about the only ruler capable of standing up to Mendicant on their own and potentially slapping him down brutally, and that just adds the sort of thrill to a war Mendicant would consider worthy of him. Glory lies over the horizon, challenge it because you know you cannot reach it.
Anyone who thinks we're active to the point of suspicion sees what they want to see, and ignores the reality in front of them. Aurvandil is regularly dogged by inactive and over extended movements.
Well, no offense but you did repeatedly deny Aurvandil being the new home of the Saxons. And now we have Averoth 2.0 in Madina. That sort of surprised me.
Then why does he (and you, for that matter) constantly propagandize and attempt to justify his/your IC actions on the forums?
Out of curiosity, have you ever fought against a daimon army before? From the scout reports I've seen of the Zuma, I'd say two daimon lords could rip through your entire realm like a chainsaw through warm butter.
As my character would say IC: "Please let Aurvandil try to take on the Zuma!"
When is the Glaumring/Menidcant wedding?
And Glaum needs a little operation...
"Lady" Sarit is testament to that, our tame inter-sex judge.
QUE? i don't believe I've heard this story. Jeez I miss out on so much :/ Anyways I think it would be best to form a marriage alliance with one of haktoos daughters Zuma Aurvandil alliance? talk about playing to win.
QUE? i don't believe I've heard this story. Jeez I miss out on so much :/ Anyways I think it would be best to form a marriage alliance with one of haktoos daughters Zuma Aurvandil alliance? talk about playing to win.
Why not Haktoo herself?
And why ask her consent? Surely a grand king like Mendicant can wed whoever he chooses. Surely it would be a honor to all ladies (and daimonic females) to be wed to such a prestigious and benevolent ruler?
This was quite a while before you joined Aurv, but as you may have noticed everyone else calls Sarit a he, and his character is actually male but Mendicant insists that he is a she, and upon finding out that Lady Sarit was in fact a he, he gave the order for his surgeons to correct the mistake. Thus, Lady Sarit is indeed a Lady for the High Sovereign wills her to be such.Begins loling. Don't know how he came to agree with that, but when you're Medicant I guess you can be very persuasive.
Mendicant is all for casual bestiality if it means he gets to conquer Haktoo with his penis, and Mendicant already has a unique item which grants him the power to walk through the Zuma lands with impunity, the High Sovereign walks where he may, and conquers what he will, and really, Haktoo could do with strengthening her dynasty with Aurvandil, since everyone's eyeing the Zuma for conquest (Which totally isn't the same case for Aurvandil). Mendicant can be all gallant and protect Haktoo from the hordes of foreigners.
We've seen the Daimon forces, the hordes they sent to protect Barca were less than a third of the combat strength Aurvandil could attack them with, and that was several Daimon lords.So, that's a "No, I've never actually 'fought' a daimon horde before, I've just seen them in scout reports." Have fun.
Begins loling. Don't know how he came to agree with that, but when you're Medicant I guess you can be very persuasive.
stops loling. questions morality of interccourse with daemons. stops caring. resumes loling.
So, that's a "No, I've never actually 'fought' a daimon horde before, I've just seen them in scout reports." Have fun.
No one denies the whims of the Highest of Sovereigns.
Well, Mendicant could always delegate it to sex by proxy, have some one else run the risk of getting what diseases are inherent in whatever it is that passes for genitals in Haktoo. I mean, so long as some one took Haktoo to bed in Mendicant's name it's close enough, Mendicant's more about the submission than the actual act.
Send someone! Now! The hilarity would be worth a million Solarian lives!
It's the balmy climate. Much better than all this northern snow.
Mmm... Palm trees and sand.
Palm sea is a little too far to the East.
I'm sure Paislan sailors would be happy to guide you, though.
The palm sea might be too far east, but I believe we were talking about north-south divisions. Too cold up north with jagged coastlines and freezing winters. Nice and warm down south with sandy coastlines, palm trees, and buxom beauties! Who wouldn't want to live somewhere with scantily clad buxom women?!
Well, it's not likely to come about since Terran seem determined to drag this war out as long as possible because an amicable peace is just so unpreferable to losing badly.
It isn't like you've offered an amicable peace or anything. Rather, you've stated you want to wipe Terran off the map. No one in Terran even thinks peace is a possibility because of this; it's a "fight for our lives" mentality there now.
Interesting, I don't recall stating I want to wipe Terran off the map, or enacting such a policy, but then I'm only the guy who makes these policies and then declares them so I'm not really "in the know".
Uh...I play Gornak, and I remember quite clearly several letters that you sent that said that you liked D'Hara (although I don't know why), and that you wanted to destroy Terran because they were 'forcing' D'Hara to declare war on Aurvandil and attack you.
Interesting, I don't recall stating I want to wipe Terran off the map, or enacting such a policy, but then I'm only the guy who makes these policies and then declares them so I'm not really "in the know". I've never said I wanted to wipe Terran out, Terran however has made it clear they want to wipe Aurvandil from existence by one means or another, and they've made it clear they absolutely hate everything about Aurvandil when they spammed the Aurvandilan government with what can only be called hate mail rather than any sort of legitimate communique. Terran doesn't want to believe peace is possible because it's inconvenient for them to think like that, they'd much rather demonise Aurvandil as a mad animal trying to murder them all because it vindicates their own ridiculous misconceptions about Aurvandil, and justifies their policy of trying to have Aurvandil exterminated.
Terran insisted on this war anyway despite Aurvandil making it clear war wasn't in any of our interests, it's only fair that they fear for their lives against Aurvandil when they refusal the Aurvandilan requests to maintain peace. Terran raised their swords against us, they can't then act affronted when Aurvandil raises its own sword to defend itself against Terranese aggression.
For someone who consistently complains of the all the bias against yourself you sure like to spew filthy propoganda about others a whole lot.
None of that is true, obviously. First of all you very well know you started the war by refusing to honor the Treaty of Evanburg, also you quite conveniently decided to have a hissy fit about how Barca/Terran/D'Hara are allied and so anything we decided together was therefore invalid or "corrupt."
Also, again, it isn't like you've offered any amicable peace or made it in any way apparent that such a thing would be possible. All of the communication we've received or heard form Mendicant is that he wants to march up and sack us, that we are stuck up (haha pot calling the kettle black), and that somehow big ole' Aurvandil is the victim here when Aurvandil has done nothing but quite purposefully ravage wreck the Maroccidens and the Véinsørmoot.
You knew quite well what buttons you were pushing when you decided to break the Treaty of Evanburg, steal regions from Barca, sack Rettleville and declare the 'Moot a bunch of uncivilized people living in huts. Just because you don't like/need alliances doesn't automatically absolve you of the blame for triggering a war that involves someones allies. It's fine I guess, you obviously have the strength to do it and that's kind of the point of the game, but at least don't try to pin it on Terran when talking OOC.
*Blatant lies.*
Whatever, man. You've got your head so full of playing Mendicant God-King that you can't even separate IC and OOC events.
I'm not whining that we're losing the war. We should lose the war. Aurvandil is a lot more powerful and our military has never been what it should be. There is nothing wrong with that, that's the game.
I just utterly cannot see how you can say you did not start the war. It's ludicrous. You took three regions from Barca and refused to give them back. You sent your General into Rettleville to tell all the Barcans they lived in Wood and Stick Huts and preceded to attack the city. When peace talks did finally break out between you and Barca you still refused to give the three regions you took back.
Then you say Terran sent you "hate mail?" What in the world?
Terran started the war and you defensively conquered Paisly. Good Lord, man. You're incredible.
Incorrect, I have never broken the treaty of Evanburg. The treaty of Evanburg simply states that I am to return the townsland to Barca when they request, or at the end of the war and once the city is in a certain condition; Barca got greedy and demanded we make a certain number of recruitment centres, infrastructure and fortifications in the region before we hand it over. It's all well and good to say we broke the Treaty, but we haven't, the treaty is still in force.
And well, I didn't start the war with Terran, don't give me that wank. You know you started it when you declared war after Mendicant said "I'm making peace with Barca, don't interfere it'll escalate the war and remove the possibility of peace" and Terran said "!@#$ you we'll do what we want". Not quite sure what your last point is, so I'll ignore it.
Well, I offered amicable peace to Barca and D'Hara, and I tried to maintain peace with Terran, but Terran pretty much declared me an evil monster and after that I lost interest in speaking with them directly, and instead made strides to peace by proxy through D'Haran's PM and their Ambassador. And no, Aurvandil isn't the victim, Barca is, since they were forced to fight a war they can't fight, didn't want to fight and stood to lose everything from, which ended up in them remaining as a starving wreck begging the Zuma for aid.
But Aurvandil hasn't purposefully wrecked the Maroccidens, we've been entirely restraint, we never wasted your cities as we did to Madina, we never devastated your rurals as we could have. We contented ourselves with fighting you on the field of battle and routing you. Don't start whining when you lose a war you started.
You knew exactly what buttons you were pressing when you declared war on Aurvandil, don't throw a bitch fit when Aurvandil slaps you down for it and tells you, you should have kept the peace like we wanted.
Also, we didn't sack Rettleville, we didn't declare the Moot uncivilised people living in huts, we didn't break the treaty of Evanburg, stop talking bollocks and trying to act like you're the victim of anything other than your own stupidity in declaring a war you knew you couldn't win for bull!@#$ reasons in the first place. Don't try to put this on Aurvandil, we were the ones who quite strenuously petitioned D'Hara and Terran to uphold the peace, we are the ones who gave Barca a blank treaty and essentially told them to put whatever they like on it and within reason we would grant it in order to create a peace without grudges. Aurvandil is the one who offered Barca food when they starved, we offered D'Hara food when they starved, we offered them both peace when it was evident they were in no condition to continue a war. But you're upset because I didn't offer peace to Terran? Tough !@#$, you shouldn't have declared war, spammed me with hate mail and then pursued an obvious grudge for no good reason.
The reason Aurvandil never offered Terran peace, is because your government was so hideously obnoxious and vulgar to the Aurvandilan government, and both Barca and D'Hara began giving us the same story that they were being forced and manipulated into this war by certain parties in the Veinsormoot, which only leaves Terran.
Did Aurvandil break the treaty of the Maroccidens? No, go look at the treaty and you'll find no terms were broken and the treaty is still in affect.You're not a signatory, of course you didn't break it.
Did Aurvandil refuse to hand back three regions to Barca? No.Well, you didn't give them back, did you? I offer the map as evidence.
Did Aurvandil refuse to return Evanburg? No.
I just utterly cannot see how you can say you did not start the war. It's ludicrous. You took three regions from Barca and refused to give them back.
Okay, you have failed to comply with the provisions of the treaty that said that you needed to build recruitment centers, etc.
Terran and D'Hara declared war, but with the express stated goal of returning 3 regions, as required by the Treaty of the Marcoccidens. If that truly was your goal, then you should have simply returned the regions and been done with it.
By "strides for peace", you mean insisting on giving up Paisly, abandoning our republic, and abandoning our allies?
A treaty is a bull!@#$ reason? This is an SMA continent, and I take my treaties seriously. And your offer of peace was unacceptable--insisting on giving up Paisly, abandoning our republic, and abandoning our allies.
Rynn may have told you that, but Gornak (me) was very much in favor of the initial declaration of war on Aurvandil, for both IC reasons (Treaty) and OOC reasons (something fun for the realm to do).
You're not a signatory, of course you didn't break it.
Well, you didn't give them back, did you? I offer the map as evidence.
I never said I wanted to destroy them, but I said something to the affect of I wanted to put them into their place.
And nobody knows why I like D'Hara, it's a fairly consistent whim Mendicant has, but we like to consider D'Hara to be an example of a benevolent republic, the better of the Veinsormoot. And well, as far as D'Hara was telling me Terran did basically force them to declare war on Aurvandil, which is the same line Barca gave as well, which is why Mendicant is now convinced of the inherent corruption and oppression in the Veinsormoot.
I'd dare say that, you know, Aurvandil invading Barca without provocation is the reason why their federated allies declared war on you... Terran could never have forced D'Hara to enter a war with Aurvandil, our obligation to Barca did.well if their federated allies had responded earlier, instead of waiting until barca and Aurvandil were in peace talks, to go and get themselves slaughtered then their would be no issue against either of you. But when you almost assure the destruction of your "ally" by attacking us, the "big bad" I think Barca would rather you not have "obliged" them.
well if their federated allies had responded earlier, instead of waiting until barca and Aurvandil were in peace talks, to go and get themselves slaughtered then their would be no issue against either of you. But when you almost assure the destruction of your "ally" by attacking us, the "big bad" I think Barca would rather you not have "obliged" them.
I really have a hard time believing this simplistic account of events.
Barca would have had a better chance of recovering and wouldn't have to becomes the daemons wipping boy.
You would have Paisly back by now and could focus on the lurians.
Terran wouldn't be facing Medicant's will or the gold sink that is this war.
If y'all hadn't attacked Aurvandil.
That's what I'm saying
Let's get this straight, however: Aurvandil attacked and declared war on the 'moot. Aurvandil initiated the hostilities. Regardless of possibilities for peace or not, an attack on a member state is an attack on all member states, and our Treaty quite simply and publicly states so.
Well they did up reforming if that's any help. They are now daemon loving indigants with 4 or so non connecting territories
well if their federated allies had responded earlier, instead of waiting until barca and Aurvandil were in peace talks, to go and get themselves slaughtered then their would be no issue against either of you. But when you almost assure the destruction of your "ally" by attacking us, the "big bad" I think Barca would rather you not have "obliged" them.
Well history is writen by the victors... So like... Once Aurvandil finishes the pest control they can just write whatever they like on here and it'll be right :)
Nah, we'll just write them off from history completely after SA comes to send them to kingdom come.You doubt the power of chevaliers and long refits.
Which is why they chose to attack the least SA-aligned block on the continent, the 'moot.
Which, as a consequence, makes conversion to SA, just for the sake of payback, become incredibly more alluring.
Way to turn neutral parties into foes.
Pretty sure the Lurias are less SA aligned than the moot. I swear you guys are sore losers. Why can't you just join Aurvandil and take up the path of a chevalier. Medicant is an excellent baked and his cookies are the best I've ever tasted. They taste like victory and France
Pot, meet kettle. I swear I can't hear your criticisms over Aurvandil's weird, manic desire to convince everyone they're the Good Guy.
Pot, meet kettle. I swear I can't hear your criticisms over Aurvandil's weird, manic desire to convince everyone they're the Good Guy.
And I was trying to convince him that we were the good guy how? I just said I like cookies and they are losing.
Some may be happy to see Aurvandil strike at the 'moot, but I doubt anyone outside of Aurvandil/Falkir seriously think that they are the poor victims they portray themselves to be on the forums.
We don't portray our realm as "poor Victims" I'm trying to show you guys that Aurvandil isn't the "big bad" that you guys think it is. You obviously have a skewed view of this since you've been on the losing side of our army once or twice and have watched us beat your moot into a pulp. That's O.K. I understand you're angry because we seem like we can't be beat, but we really aren't the horrible atrocious witches that you think we are. Really I just want people to see us as another realm with its own quirks and intricacies like all other realms. Yea we have had our bad moments. Other realms haven't? You don't see any other realms get focused with so much hate and disdain for their faults, mishaps, or actions as you do Aurvandil. Yes I'm complaining that everyone is against us because that is dang sure what it seems like sometimes.
I wasn't even there when Aurvandil defeated any D'Haran army, if beat any it did. What hurt us wasn't Aurvandil, it was starvation.
What happened is that Aurvandil signed a border agreement with Barca. Then decided not only to give lent regions back, but to keep and take more from them, with no provocation. It then decided it had the right to decide who was legitimate in Barca or not. It then decided it had the right to declare Barca to be a non-state. Then, it decided it would plop new colonies in our territories. All the while, saying the "evil 'moot attacked us, we never wanted war!"
Sure.
You forced this war onto us, and then claim it was never your intent when it was obvious attacking Barca would result in this. A few in the 'moot might have wanted war against Aurvandil, but it would have absolutely never have happened had you not broken your treaty with Barca and attacked them without provocation. (How can you seriously claim you haven't broken the "In the event that the cival war meets it natural conclusion, Evanburg will be returned to the Republic of Barca" provision...) You tried to force an unspecified government change in Barca, and then tried to mingle in D'Haran politics. Before the war, you wouldn't didn't feel like selling us food. Even if we were at peace and you had never attacked us, you make for a really !@#$ty neighbor.
No we forced Barca into war. Whether you think so or not you had a choice as to whether to enter the war or not. I don't see how most of that had anything to do with what I last posted besides just trying to prove you you are against us. Most of those points have already been explained by Medicant IC and OOC and he is in a much better position to argue that than I am. We're not a really !@#$ty neighbor just a really !@#$ty enemy ;)
Riiiiiight. Never mind the fact the most of their rulers have been SA priests for some time, now, and that they've done multiple moves to woo SA.
Erm...as usual, your Lurian facts are pretty off-base.
To my knowledge, only one Lurian ruler has ever been an SA priest. I can't say for certain which rulers are or have been SA members (besides the aforementioned priest), but presently exactly 0 are SA priests. (As a matter of fact, I think that presently all the Lurian rulers are members of Aetheris Pyrism, though as Alanna's not a member I can't say for sure.)
The Lurias have always tolerated SA, and tried to remain in its political good graces. We will not, however, be ruled by it. Not now, not ever.
Hey,i have an idea,why don't we all join SA and make Dwilight the most boring world to play in? Sounds like a plan?
Barca would have had a better chance of recovering and wouldn't have to becomes the daemons wipping boy.
You would have Paisly back by now and could focus on the lurians.
Terran wouldn't be facing Medicant's will or the gold sink that is this war.
If y'all hadn't attacked Aurvandil.
That's what I'm saying
Malus Solari was one. I seem to recall at least one or two Luria Nova rulers being priests of SA. Then there's the dukes and other government members, over time. That today none of the rulers is SA doesn't mean that historically, SA faithful had quite a few positions with pull in the Lurias.
Pardon my exaggeration, though. But the 'moot fought an SA realm (Kabrinskia, a theocracy!), something that the Lurias have never done.
As far as i know this is what would happen if you hadn't attacked Aurvandil as Lanyon said.
Malus Solari was one. I seem to recall at least one or two Luria Nova rulers being priests of SA. Then there's the dukes and other government members, over time. That today none of the rulers is SA doesn't mean that historically, SA faithful had quite a few positions with pull in the Lurias.
either move on from this flame fest, or I'm going to request a mod come in here. This is getting ridiculous.its definitely a heated discussion but I wouldn't call it a flame fest.
either move on from this flame fest, or I'm going to request a mod come in here. This is getting ridiculous.
2) I thought Asylon was not part of the 'moot?
Astrum and Terran just joined in an alliance. Am i justified in saying !@#$ just got real? I'm excited! Vive la Souverain!
corsanctum? do they even have players :P astrum is the big dog is my point. and yea I messed up my French chenier. I never use French besides in this game :P
I find Aurvandil's poor usage of French to be mildly amusing.
I don't think its supposed to be proper french.. Just like imitation french flavouring
Whatever the intent be, it often looks ridiculous to me and I have to resist the urge to correct the speaker (usually Mendicant).
I understand what you mean to do, and I've got nothing against it. Heck, I've used some Russian for some of my RP stuff, and I probably botched it at least as bad.
Whatever the intent be, it often looks ridiculous to me and I have to resist the urge to correct the speaker (usually Mendicant).
I understand what you mean to do, and I've got nothing against it. Heck, I've used some Russian for some of my RP stuff, and I probably botched it at least as bad.
*snort*
I have enough problem taking anyone seriously whose name means "beggar"—especially when they're supposedly a noble.
Who would that be?
Mendicant (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/mendicant) ;DHaha, I didn't know that was a word in English.
Moderator note: I have reviewed the entire thread and issued one warning. I also deleted any quote from Glaumring and any off-topic response to him, and any other offtopic content.
Also, offtopic posts in the middle, new thread split here: Talk about Villains (http://forum.battlemaster.org/index.php/topic,3328.0.html)
Mendicant (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/mendicant) ;D
How are quotes from Glaumring off-topic in regards to war in the Maroccidens?
OH we kill them left! we kill them right! we kill them under the bloodstars of night. From Aegir's deep to kabrinskia. They come young and old, plated in gold and we send them back in a beggars sack.
"Crusade! Crusade!" your mad men sing "Mendicant is no just king". And to that i say you'll meet our steel. For fruit and peasants is all you've killed.
It is so hard for you to see: The power of the commonwealth and her victory. I tell you now those shacks you live in will only be used when we take your wife in.
Now! go now! Fore us chevaliers take our sword and we form ranks. Your word nor stank will make us fear. In our precision march all we shall see is your rear.
(( I was feeling creative. anyways here's to a good war mates! cheers!))
He asked for all of his posts to be removed--someone else did that.this isn't the development or feature request board so what does it matter if its off topic?
I went through and removed quotes of his.
And, nothing he wrote was actually about the war between the 'Moot and Aurvandil. So it was all offtopic, and all the replies to his posts were also offtopic.
this isn't the development or feature request board so what does it matter if its off topic?
The replies to his posts wouldn't have made sense without his posts--everyone would look insane.
Huh. SA allying with Terran. Does this mean they are going to finally bring their armies south?
I doubt it's just for show.
I guess Aurvandil's going to feel some heat pretty soon for starting a war agains the 'moot.
We can only hope. Remains to be seen how effectively they bring aid from that far away.
Just to clarify, "SA" does not ally with anyone. Individual realms have chosen to ally with Terran, and, so I hear, send troops around. But unless you hear an announcement from the church, then the people doing it are not "SA". This is an important distnction, not an empty semantic exercise.
Just to clarify, "SA" does not ally with anyone. Individual realms have chosen to ally with Terran, and, so I hear, send troops around. But unless you hear an announcement from the church, then the people doing it are not "SA". This is an important distnction, not an empty semantic exercise.
People can believe whatever they want IC. I'm not issuing an IG proclamation, just giving an OOC clarification.
Why?Because I felt like making a clarification.
Except maybe Kabrinskia, but fighting alongside them would be extremely awkward anyways.
Heh, Aurvandil's got some pretty whacky diplomatic strategies.
Because obviously convincing D'Harans that setting up a colony in Paisly was in our own interests is going to work. Obviously.
Has anyone else noticed that the Paisly Duchy the Aurvandi set up is called the "Florentine City-State of Paisly"? What in the world? "Florentine" should have zero meaning in BM context....Lady Florence is the ruler of Aurvandil's planned colony.
I personally do not see the big deal. People constantly borrow names and words for in game use from real world history or languages. They do not always line up perfectly but that really does not matter. How many character names are really from the medieval period of western Europe? Heck, look at region names! Many of them do not invoke a medieval European feel in my opinion. I am not expert in history though...
This game involves collaboratively creating a world that has a medieval feel. Few of us are experts in history and even if we all were there would still be disagreements about what fits and what doesn’t. As long as a name or use of language does not come off as too outlandish, I think we should really remain flexible.
Has anyone else noticed that the Paisly Duchy the Aurvandi set up is called the "Florentine City-State of Paisly"? What in the world? "Florentine" should have zero meaning in BM context....
And if you are unhappy with that, go bash on Kabrinskia and Solaria who set the trend of naming realms after themselves. Because obviously, France called itself Marivingia in the days, and Great Britain called itself Tudoria.
On the other hand, China is named after the Qin dynasty, the Ottoman empire is named after its first ruler Otman, Liechtenstein is named after the ruling Liechtenstein family (not the other way around), America was named after Amerigo Vespucci, in addition to many modern examples.
Non-european, non-european, okay, not comparable.
Florentine... because the lord's name is... Florence?
It's not RL toponomy burrowing, here...
That all of you did not see or realize this is surprising...
And if you are unhappy with that, go bash on Kabrinskia and Solaria who set the trend of naming realms after themselves. Because obviously, France called itself Marivingia in the days, and Great Britain called itself Tudoria.
Tudoria woukd be a far more interesting place than boring old England. Tired of your wife? Behead her! Tired of your minister getting on your case about said beheadings? Start your own church! Tudoria, where Men can be Men.
Non-european, non-european, okay, not comparable.
That is explicitly disallowed right on the page where you rename the duchy.
Florentine... because the lord's name is... Florence?
If that's the case then it's just really weird and awkward, but I guess not wrong.Is it that hard for people to see Florentine City-State of Paisly= Lady Florence's duchy that will soon be a realm? I guess I might just see it as easy as I learned of the plans for the duchy, then saw its name. I don't see the issue with naming a duchy like that.
Naming a realm after someone is a lot different than turning someone's name into an adjective. Ohhh man, that realm is SO Tomian! And look over there at that beautiful Johnish coastline!
Is it that hard for people to see Florentine City-State of Paisly= Lady Florence's duchy that will soon be a realm? I guess I might just see it as easy as I learned of the plans for the duchy, then saw its name. I don't see the issue with naming a duchy like that.
They wouldn't have named the duchy after the lord. That is explicitly disallowed right on the page where you rename the duchy. That would be like defending your inappropriate RL reference for your duchy name by saying "no, no, we didn't use an RL cultural reference, we broke the rules and named it after the lord!"
Just really weird and awkward to use someone's name as an adjective, lol.
Why didn't this matter come up when The Falkirkian Freestate was made?
They wouldn't have named the duchy after the lord. That is explicitly disallowed right on the page where you rename the duchy. That would be like defending your inappropriate RL reference for your duchy name by saying "no, no, we didn't use an RL cultural reference, we broke the rules and named it after the lord!"
They wouldn't have? Oh really, now...
Also, it's fine for realms but not for duchies? Stupid, just stupid.
They wouldn't have, Aurvandil may be many things but breaking the rules in a way that is blatently undeniable... they're not stupid enough to give so much firepower to the haters.
and what... Do the dev team just make up rules using a dart board now...
Blissfully ignoring the fact that it's a rule not to do so has not entered your mind?
No, I tend not to paint bullseyes on my chest while my enemies are holding a rifle.
For the record, I suggest that the Aurvandil in this war is genuinely not fighting SA. They are genuinely fighting a large and actually kinda awkward coalition of realms with divergent interest. I thus suggest that the belligerent powers should be termed "Orvandeux" (Falkirk/Aurvandil) and "Allies" (Moot, assorted Astroist realms.... Fissoa-maybe-ish?)
Just to clarify this for the 1000 times Falkirk is in no way shape or form in this war or an ally of Aurvandil. Their war with fissoa is a 100% completely different thing that does not involve chevaliers. This has been said by Mendicant both IC and OOC to me personally and yall a bunch.
Also, the reason I can and will continue to term that group as SA is because 4/5 SA realms are now allied with Terran and it's not really a mish mash of realms it's those 4 realms+ terran. Barca and D'Hara haven't even been seen since the battle of Maeotis
Ok ok so basically SA and their vassal realms, the moot... ;D
It's nice to have friends in war. I completely understand if that concept is misinterpreted in Asylon, however.
You're free to view it as a unitary bloc if you wish. I promise you, it ain't. If it were a big bloc that generally worked as a unit, they'd a been marching south a looooooong time ago.Vellos gets to see, firsthand, how SA operates at the highest levels. Are you impressed, Vellos? Aren't we a model of efficiency and timeliness? ::)
Vellos gets to see, firsthand, how SA operates at the highest levels. Are you impressed, Vellos? Aren't we a model of efficiency and timeliness? ::)
Right, because we didn't just get done winning a war against an Astroist Theocracy or anything.
Aye, but we did it all by ourselves. Standing against Astrum and Kabrinskia and Corsanctum defenders. And we will continue to do so. We ally rarely and I would be hard pressed to form a federation with any nation at our current size. If Asylon had 10 nobles yes I would Ally/ federate but there is no really fun or good excuse for 20+ kingdoms to ally/ federate. Smaller kingdoms fighting between a few kingdoms is more fun than this current form of cluster!@#$ gameplay, gameplague. There is no pride to fight and die by your own words, its all to keep the order and protect corrupt and bloated power blocs. We will not support the zerg gameplay. We have purposeful limited alliance so that smaller kingdoms and the culture they bring the rp they bring has a chance to thrive. Currently it is black or white, big power blocs. Hopefully that will end soon or one day and kingdoms become prouder of their own culture and right.
How are the power blocs in anyway black and white? That's ridiculous. If anyone would have said 6 months ago that soon a bunch of SA realms were allied to some 'Moot realms they would have called you crazy. If anything, most people thought that the next major war coming was most likely to be SA v. the 'Moot. Despite your rhetoric, Dwilight is one of the most politically dynamic continents in the game.
Uh.. you realize for all your talk about wanting small kingdoms and hating big realms blah blah that Asylon is the 3rd biggest realm on Dwilight, right? Bigger than every other realm except for Aurvandil and Morek? Bigger than Astrum that you criticize for being so huge all the time? Bigger than literally every single SA realm except for Morek?
Well how else do you smash large power blocks into small realms. Just because Glaum wants many small realms on dwilight doesn't mean that he should limit himself to single dutchy realms and city states while he achives that goal... Doing so would be absurdly stupid
Right, because when one seeks smaller kingdoms, creating smaller kingdoms himself is an utterly ridiculous idea.
You realize asylon made a colony about a month ago right? If that isn't trying to create new realms idk what is.
Right, because when one seeks smaller kingdoms, creating smaller kingdoms himself is an utterly ridiculous idea.
So, it's all well and good when Auravandil and Asylon do it, but bad and harassment when SA and the 'moot do it?
Double standards are double, heh.
Making small kingdoms when there are big kingdoms seems worse than making a big kingdom and trying to destroy the bigger kingdoms then make lots of smaller kingdoms
Not waiting for Astrum to be destroyed. Dont really care about Astrum.
The 'moot is three federated realms, and we do just fine.
and we do just fine.
just fine.
fine.
... there is no really fun or good excuse for 20+ kingdoms to ally/ federate. Smaller kingdoms fighting between a few kingdoms is more fun than this current form of cluster!@#$ gameplay, gameplague. There is no pride to fight and die by your own words, its all to keep the order and protect corrupt and bloated power blocs. We will not support the zerg gameplay.And you wonder why people are hostile toward you on the forums.
Asylon was formed in revolution...No, Asylon was founded by a peaceful colony mission from Caerwyn. The revolution you led came much later.
The 'moot is three federated realms, and we do just fine.
Also, if you are waiting for Astrum to be destroyed before setting up smaller realms, you'll never do it. If Asylonians are so united and strong and whatnot, splitting up will only make your tax tolerance higher. Being attacked wouldn't be a problem, because all of the realm fragments would join in to defend as one.
I suspect there's more to it than that.
What are you even blabbering on about?
No, Asylon was founded by a peaceful colony mission from Caerwyn. The revolution you led came much later.
The moot is three federated realms and was doing just fine until Aurvandil ate Barca amd Winter almostndestroyed D'hara.
Fixed!
And you wonder why people are hostile toward you on the forums.
Yes, and that is when it was founded. I am the bear, the fox and crow. You will never catch me!
People are hostile because I speak my mind, play how I want to play, value my friendships IG and do not march to the tune being drummed out on these forums everyday and IG. I am a firebrand and swashbuckling rogue and as long as I play on Dwilight as Glaumring I will always be this way. I have learned one thing in life, those who value you or find good in what you do are all that matters. I cannot please you, you must make the decision by yourself. I salute the Bowie Ironsides in the ones who have that fire burning inside them.
People are hostile to you because you change your mind repeatedly in forum posts and play erratically (http://forum.battlemaster.org/index.php/topic,2704.0.html).
I am looking forward to the day that Celtiberia, Kydonia, Gallaecia and Evanburg fly the Barcan banner.
I am looking forward to the day that Celtiberia, Kydonia, Gallaecia and Evanburg fly the Barcan banner.
You might better look to the past because we have no intent of losing this war or our regions.
You may not intend to lose it, but we don't intend to let that stop us.
Mendicant's blackmail of D'Hara failed. Now, he talks to us as if giving Paisly back would be a "gain" for us, when it'd be simply returning to the state of things before Aurvandilian aggression. And as if we'd want to make any concessions for Paisly when the northern armies are about to liberate it for us anyways.
Mendicant is afraid, and it shows. Time for the bully to be bullied, and for the 'moot to grow stronger and deeper roots than ever in the region. Barca will regain all of the lost lands, and take the lands it never got to claim. One way or another.
The only question is whether a crippled Aurvandil will remain, or if it will be annexed to Barca or simply turned into a new colony.
We? last I heard y'all are staying neutral, and if you think SA is actually going to give you Paisly back IF they can take it from us, well i guess you're more naive than I would have guess. Liberate it for you. wow.... OH yes! let's help non-astroist realms that we have warred with before and used to be one of our biggest rivals before getting ROFLSTOMPED by the enemy we're fighting. yea sounds JUST like SA.
It's not because you have no friends and influence that we don't either. D'Hara will have the duchy of Paisly back, whether Aurvandil wants it or not, one way or another. The more Aurvandil waits, the more D'Harans are pissed off about the squatters in their regions.
I don't see Dhara surviving with the current political clime. Sad, but true.
Because of the pathetic Lurian imperialists?
With the northerners coming against Aurvandil, I feel quite confident. For as long as we remain alone against the Lurias, I can see the battles going both ways, but I do not see the possibility of things going really bad, should they go bad.
If Lurians try to sail to D'Hara, we'll just laugh at them when they try to go back home. We've got harbors on the isles and on the continent, they don't. Any attack on our core isles would be extremely costly for the Lurias.
Well, that was unnecessarily rude. Pathetic? We could sit here all day calling you D'Harans names too, but on the forum don't you think that's pretty childish?
Cost isn't an issue for Luria. Reclaiming historical lands is. Even Morek recognizes the claim of Luria. You might want to rethink your undeserved superiority complex Chénier.
If Luria were truly united as opposed to the fractious collective of individuals that it is, the initial assaults would have gone far better.
That's why there is a formal treaty in place between solaria and morek where all of Lower Toprak belongs to Luria, right? Because its bullocks? Your denial worries me.
You can try to manipulate the facts into making yourself look more important, but the fact remains that it is a legitimate Cassus Belli.
So they signed a contradictory agreement with Morek. So what? They still conceded that land to D'Hara, and broke their word to us. We aren't going to forget that just because, for some unknown reason, Morek agreed to "recognize" your claim on regions that were flying our flag and had never belonged to the Lurias.
And you'd think that if the regions had mattered that much to the Lurias back then, and that they hadn't come to such an agreement with Machiavel, they'd have complained more on the ruler channel about our expansion into that territory, no?
Had D'Haran suspected the Lurias' fighting capacity to be what it has shown to be, we'd have invaded you long ago, just to teach you a lesson for your constant unwarranted threats.
Lol. Keep telling yourself whatever you want that makes you feel better.
Unwarranted threats? Since I rejoined the game in february, we sold you food at a decent rate and then listened to you make grumblings about invading us. And you can play the hindsight game all you want. The past is the past. Current evolutions of political climates are all that matter.
Lose the chip on your shoulder Chénier. Seriously.
(treaty)
Notice, Sevastian didn't draft it. He didn't even exist at the time. So whatever Machiavel might have done and said obviously wasnt that important to anyone but him.
/me shrugs.
A D'Haran-Lurian agreement that no one has ever heard of outside of you trying to press it into people's heads will not garner support.
This conversation is going nowhere and is tangentizing off of the topic. Good luck in the war and with whatever claims you think you have.
The Lurias have no friends, just enemies and uncaring neighbors.
Quite possibly the most ignorant sentence ever posted.
Your delusions are entertaining.
Woelfy your adorable. Your like this small child desperately defending his elder brother in a schoolyard arguement but he doesn't much know what the big kids are talking about.
Unfortunately, I do know what 'the big kids' are talking about.
What the f*** is it with you guys and getting personally insulting on the forums? Do you guys not have anything better to do? Or is it just that you guys enjoy bashing anyone who doesn't fall immediately in line with whatever line of 'thought' you put forward?
@daycryn: I'd say a crusade would increase rp options and make a war more enjoyable. Whip the armies on both sides into a zealous fervor and watch them tear each other apart.
I agree woelfy. I don't think some people here realize it's just a game and nothing to get mad and personally insult someone over.
I agree that it should be called as it is: a crusade. that's what we're calling it in Aurvandil
Except that it's not. They are coming to defend non-astroists from Aurvandilian aggression.
This is just about the 'moot having friends and influence, and Aurvandil having none.
with friends like those who needs enemies? Us Aurvandilans have many friends. Drage and Duke Vahanian are pretty chummy and his steel sword is his best friend. all we need is each other :P. I'm surprised you haven't learned that already considering how much your friends the moot have done for you, but arguing with you is like trying to speak string theory with a monkey. no matter how many times you go over it he won't get it.
If SA declared a crusade, which they didn't, it would continue until either the enemy of the church gets completely annihilated or the church would.
Or untill SA decide the marching the length of the continent... Every attack is just not worth the effort...
Or untill SA decide the marching the length of the continent... Every attack is just not worth the effort...
Except that it's not. They are coming to defend non-astroists from Aurvandilian aggression.
This is just about the 'moot having friends and influence, and Aurvandil having none.
What the f*** is it with you guys and getting personally insulting on the forums? Do you guys not have anything better to do? Or is it just that you guys enjoy bashing anyone who doesn't fall immediately in line with whatever line of 'thought' you put forward?
I expect to see battles on par with the original war islands.
I doubt there will be many battles. I can't even imagine how much gold the SA nobles are paying to get to Aurvandil and then how long it'll take for them to get home again.
Or perhaps SA just wants to ruckus Aurvandil and keep them from expanding. I wouldn't chalk it up to influence.
Well with the new sea routes it only takes 4 days travel for morek to get there. so just over a week for a refit if everyone moves when they are supposed to. so not too bad and the kcost is minimal (about the same as coming from astrum on the old sea routes)
I would imagine that astrum could get there in 2 1/2 days so they would have less than a week refit time (faster than the old sea routes)
How are they getting back?
How are they getting back?
Why would coming back be any more difficult? It's not like Terran doesn't have any harbors for them to use.
Terran is a pretty long walk and they're paying for more travel on the way back... This will be positively bankrupting war for them
If this war is going to "bankrupt" the SA realms seems to be all of you all should thanking the Véinsørmoot for getting them involved, right? ;)
However, I highly doubt it will bankrupt them. It will surely cost them some money, but it isn't like they are fighting a normal border war where you would have to pay for the rebuilding of regions, deal with enemy looting, etc.
So let's divide each of the sides into strengths and weaknesses.
Aurvandil:
Better single realm army
From what I hear, better general
on defense
only uses gold for military
Doesn't have far to refit
winning streak
The Theocracies+Terran
Gold lots of gold
Bigger total army
can invade from pretty much anywhere
more total nobles
terran can harass paisly and paisland while the other fight down south
what did i miss?
So let's divide each of the sides into strengths and weaknesses.
Aurvandil:
Better single realm army
From what I hear, better general
on defense
only uses gold for military
Doesn't have far to refit
winning streak
The Theocracies+Terran
Gold lots of gold
Bigger total army
can invade from pretty much anywhere
more total nobles
terran can harass paisly and paisland while the other fight down south
what did i miss?
Bankrupting? You must be joking...
Money isn't the problem, my character is glad he can spend it on something finally. Problem is the nasty mercenary setting bug.
What bug is this?
So let's divide each of the sides into strengths and weaknesses.
Aurvandil:
Better single realm army
From what I hear, better general
on defense
only uses gold for military
Doesn't have far to refit
winning streak
The Theocracies+Terran
Gold lots of gold
Bigger total army
can invade from pretty much anywhere
more total nobles
terran can harass paisly and paisland while the other fight down south
what did i miss?
C'mon, let's be honest what this war's really about:
Religious Internationalists vs. Non-Religious Unilateralists
Clash of ideologies. So much more interesting. It's not SA v. Aurvandil. A big chunk of the fighting is being done by Triunists. If/when D'hara gets involved again, VE will be involved.
They've already destroyed temples and persecuted Elementalists. VE does not see Aurvandil favourably, but we have a tradition of remaining neutral in political affairs.
How can you be neutral if your beeing attacked?
You're doing so well in winning more friends. Go you!
they responded by stealing an entire duchy and giving to the Grand Duchy and then trying to incite a war against Aurvandil, and failing that, incited one against the Falkirkian Freestate who held the right and claim to the lands they stole.
You're doing so well in winning more friends. Go you!
False. The Duke owns the lands of the duchy, and the duke switched allegiance. That is treason, not theft. The Falkirkian Freestate did not exist, therefore it could not have rights to those lands.
Thanks, but I know how things are run in Aurvandil.
The Commonwealth owns the land, and grants authority to the High Sovereign to delegate land as he pleases, the dukes may "own the land" but they lack the authority to remove the land from the Commonwealth, as the land is sworn to the Commonwealth first and foremost. Only the High Sovereign has the direct legal powers to say what is or isn't apart of the Commonwealth.
The Falkirkian Freestate didn't exist, but it still held the rights because the High Sovereign gave Falkirk a mandate granting them absolute authority over the territory and the permission to secede from the Commonwealth, thus they hold the right to the territory.
I'm sorry, what persecution exactly?
You mean the temples in the duchies of Madina and Paisly that Mendicant specifically ordered to be left untouched and remain as such save for one temple? Or the priests we allowed into the realm and gave legal immunity to? Aurvandil hasn't persecuted VE, however VE made a point of spitting in our face when they stole land and incited a Dukes rebellion in order to further their religious aims. Don't try to act like they've been persecuted, when at most Margrave Lex refused to let them build a temple in Madina after Margrave Lucius went against Mendicant's order to tear down the temple, which was Lex's right to refuse them as it was his city, to which they responded by stealing an entire duchy and giving to the Grand Duchy and then trying to incite a war against Aurvandil, and failing that, incited one against the Falkirkian Freestate who held the right and claim to the lands they stole.
VE hasn't been persecuted, they just haven't got their own way as much as they'd like. But really, Aurvandil has been overly courteous to a religion we didn't need to be with and had no reason to be.
Game engine trumps roleplay.
Temples were destroyed, threats were made. As I said, it could still be worse. However, it'd be a total and blatant lie to claim that no damage whatsoever was done against the church. It's not because Aurvandil could do worse that it hasn't done anything wrong at all.
You admit it yourself. "Save for one temple". That's already one temple too much. The Church hasn't counter-attacked because it doesn't want an all-out conflict, but that's a long way from feeling like it has been properly treated by your atheist government.
Also, Aurvandil's government isn't atheist by any measure.They believe in the glory of Aurvandil and you are their god-king, or something like that-right?
Game engine trumps roleplay.
Game engine does not specify ownership, just leadership.
They believe in the glory of Aurvandil and you are their god-king, or something like that-right?
Harass Paisly and Paisland? You mean, outright take it away from Aurvandil, right?
Says the man who lost it in one turn of fighting to Aurvandil.
Nope. Since they don't have any temples, they are just pagans.
or maybe i just have a secret shrine to mendicant on my estate. you'll never know unless you travel to fatmilak
Says the man who lost it in one turn of fighting to Aurvandil.
I was away when we lost Paisly. And I'm pretty sure that starvation took it from us, not Aurvandil. And that Aurvandil's TO of it when rogue took longer than one turn.
It's only the northerners who have the cult of the God-king, and they're more than welcome to keep it in the north.Where in the north is it that you think someone has a god-king?
Where in the north is it that you think someone has a god-king?
He's saying that northeners are the only ones that believe that.
"Why do the locals need religion when they have their Sovereign to provide for them" is basically what Mendicant has stated. If that's not an atheist statement, then it's a statement that proclaims him to be a god-king. Vice versa.
Nope. Unless you are willing to create a religion, you will stay a pagan. Can't argue.
Everyone believes in something in BM.
I basically look at it that he is a 'God-king'. I find the whole Atheism thing in BM annoying. I don't care what your philosophy is in life. In BM find a religion already.
I find it ignorant that it is thought that nobody was athiest or agnostic in medieval europe. It certainly wasn't publicised or admitted but that is all.
So, declare your character to be a secret atheist. That's fine.
But no one cares what you believe in your secret heart of hearts. They care what temple you go to and what Gods you pray to when everyone can see and hear you.
If you declare in the street that there are no Gods, no afterlife, nothing but gross matter...well, the Gods have been known to make examples of people like that. Spectacularly.
And if They don't, and you manage to evade the angry peasantry, any noble with a lick of sense would blackball you immediately and you'd lose all your influence and reputation.
I agree, being publicly Athiest would be bad. However, if a realm roleplayed educating peasants to be athiest or starting secret nobility movements or starting an Athiest religion option is against the rules. Why? These things could work given time and should be roleplayed slowly over IG years maybe even decades but it could be done.
There is no such thing as an atheist religion.
Dwilight especially has stricter rules for religions than other islands.
No.
The moment you start doing it, you get burned at the stake.
No atheism. Nowhere. Period. Don't like it? Too bad. Play someone else's game.
It is a religious option in the same way any other faith is
I don't like it, I don't like its historical ignorance nor do I like the fact that realms are disadvantaged by not having a state religion, I don't like how your historical education is so black and white its almost a bad joke. It would be hard, dangerous, would make a pariah out of any noble or realm that took it upon them but its certainly not imposible for athiesm or expecially agnosticism to exist in your settings. Nor will I stop reminding you of that fact when the subject arrises.
He he he ... that would be an interesting mechanic. If enough people report your character's message as professing atheistic beliefs, you log in to find your character has been burned at the stake.
Here's a question thats been of some interest, both ICly and OOC: are the Bloodstars "gods?"
Here's a question thats been of some interest, both ICly and OOC: are the Bloodstars "gods?"
I play monopoly very different than the rules say because that's how i find it fun.
That isn't what it means, it implies that faith in god isn't important because the sovereign is better than god and more worthy. He isn't a god King he transcends god as something better.
I find it ignorant that it is thought that nobody was athiest or agnostic in medieval europe. It certainly wasn't publicised or admitted but that is all.
Duchy Changes Allegiance (1 hour ago)
message to Everyone on Dwilight
Sun Hall has changed its allegiance with all its regions to the realm of Luria Nova. The duchy used to belong to Solaria.
How do you figure? Now you're at war with one large realm instead of two medium sized ones.
He he he ... that would be an interesting mechanic. If enough people report your character's message as professing atheistic beliefs, you log in to find your character has been burned at the stake.
"Why do the locals need religion when they have their Sovereign to provide for them" is basically what Mendicant has stated. If that's not an atheist statement, then it's a statement that proclaims him to be a god-king. Vice versa.
And Libero, and Iashalur.
Well the Morekians just declared war on us and all i can say is: Do ya feel lucky punk? well do ya?
Asylon backing up with squatters in Paisly... If they are the guys Aurvandil is referring to as being able to defend Paisly from its rightful owners, you guys are truly delusional. As if Asylon is going to stop anyone from doing anything.
Rightful owners are the ones with power. D'Hara lost paisly D'hara didn't recover paisly for a month or more. Its not yours chenier stop acting like youre entitled to it just because you lost your duchy and have your panties in a wad
Asylon backing up with squatters in Paisly... If they are the guys Aurvandil is referring to as being able to defend Paisly from its rightful owners, you guys are truly delusional. As if Asylon is going to stop anyone from doing anything.
sit in relative silence counting piles of gold waiting for the next dog pile war, which is all S.A. seems to ever do.
Here's a better question: what reason does SA have to declare war on Prvencia di florenza? it is even nuetral with Aurvandil. you could just go around
Why in the world would Asylon come out supporting the Paisly colony? It doesn't even make sense.
Seriously?
Umm.. several reasons:
1) The Véinsørmoot regards the Duchy of Paisly as rightfully D'Haran and therefore Little Italy there is an enemy (the fact that it was put there by Aurvandil only compounds the issue).
2) It is clearly nothing more than an attempt to slow down the Coalition's campaign whose secession came only to try to cause pause or disruption to the campaign.
3) It is an insulting offensive colonization of Véinsørmoot territory by Aurvandil; trying to implant their culture directly into the Maroccidens Proper.
4) It is made up of a bunch of Aurvandil nobility.
We fight for the underdog and we do not sell out just to win. You have enough armies, why add more to the pile? Asylon dances to a different drummer and as long as it exists we will strive to be individuals. We are not slaves to faith, we are free men and nobles, we are brighter than the stars.
Here's a better question: what reason does SA have to declare war on Prvencia di florenza? it is even nuetral with Aurvandil. you could just go around
This makes no sense.
Oh, that actually explains it. Thank you.
Well, not all of us are happy to be compliant with using so many allies it almost makes the war pointless. The Veinsormoot tried to take on Aurvandil alone, got badly defeated, refused unconditional peace and now they've brought all of S.A. lets see if the Church will fair any better. If Aurvandil loses then God forbid the south will become like the north and Dwilight will become unplayable for anyone who doesn't want to sit in relative silence counting piles of gold waiting for the next dog pile war, which is all S.A. seems to ever do.two things, first the Asylon comment I believe is more of with all of SA and moot against the new colony, Asylon is kinda irrelevant. Also though SA can take your regions with the new system it isn't a way to have your realm in two different areas due to the distance to capital penalties causing the region to revolt almost instantly after the army leaves the region so realms aren't overstepping their bounds.
But the answer to your statement is no, Asylon is just one facet, and I shall give you a tit for tat exchange of "As if D'Hara could ever stop anyone anyway". Really, you don't have the right to mock Asylon for their military.
They already have, afaik. Asylon is obliged by the alliance with Fiorenza to invade after the coalition broke through Paisland.
If Aurvandil loses then God forbid the south will become like the north and Dwilight will become unplayable for anyone who doesn't want to sit in relative silence counting piles of gold waiting for the next dog pile war, which is all S.A. seems to ever do.
Here's a better question: what reason does SA have to declare war on Prvencia di florenza? it is even nuetral with Aurvandil. you could just go around
Oh, are we allied with Fiorenza? As far as I know we have only signed a peace treaty with them. Making us as much allies with them as with any other realm on Dwilight.
Oh, are we allied with Fiorenza? As far as I know we have only signed a peace treaty with them. Making us as much allies with them as with any other realm on Dwilight.
How can people SERIOUSLY believe this crap? Aurvandil created a 3-man colony from stolen D'Haran lands, for the SPECIFIC reason of creating a buffer between Aurvandil and others (Mendicant said so many times), and Aurvandilians wonder why people (including D'Harans) don't like this new realm!?
There is no neutrality. It has been made painfully clear since the first day that the idea was mentioned that the colony wouldn't be tolerated.
How about we go form a colony in Candiels, and claim it's a neutral new polity with no instructions on whose side to be on? I'm sure Aurvandil would be delighted by this, right?
Asylon backstabbing us doesn't make the bunch any more neutral.
The pot calling the kettle black.
I'm not sure if you actually believe this statement, but if not, you should know that people are right to feel insulted when game mechanics are employed as a screen for actual intentions. This would hardly be the first instance (this month, even), but the reaction is always the same: incredulity that people expect everyone else to pack up their stuff and go home because a piece of parchment says "peace", particularly if there's evidence to the contrary. It is analogous to saying "who are going going to believe? Me, or your eyes?"
Please, Do suggest the evidence to the contrary or are accusations without evidence your norm?
The real reason that the northern realms attacked the new colony is because they can't march any further south. Morale losses due to distance from home are BIG. They marched all that way for weeks and then sat around for days waiting for Terran to figure out what was going on before hey finally figured out which way the sword points. By that time they had been in the field for a really long time and they couldn't march much further south. They had to attack something. Anything. So the new colony got clobbered.
Aurvandil stands a good chance. The SA realms can't attack them since he is too far south. My alternative plan for a war against Aurvandil was shot down and now it looks like it will be the only plausible means of waging an effective war against Aurvandil. All Aurvandil has to do is get good reports of where the northern armies are. Once they leave, whack Terran really hard, pillage and burn everything they can and then refit when the northern armies march south again. In the mean time while the Northern armies are in the area they just continue to annex Barcan regions.
How can people SERIOUSLY believe this crap? Aurvandil created a 3-man colony from stolen D'Haran lands, for the SPECIFIC reason of creating a buffer between Aurvandil and others (Mendicant said so many times), and Aurvandilians wonder why people (including D'Harans) don't like this new realm!?
There is no neutrality. It has been made painfully clear since the first day that the idea was mentioned that the colony wouldn't be tolerated.
How about we go form a colony in Candiels, and claim it's a neutral new polity with no instructions on whose side to be on? I'm sure Aurvandil would be delighted by this, right?
Terran and D'Hara being slimy? No! Impossible!
Firstly, Paisly isn't your capital, secondly Paisly isn't your only city, it's one of about four that you have including one stronghold that can also support a capital, thirdly as far as I am aware you weren't founded in Paisly, and fifth, Aurvandil conquered Paisly when you were too incompetent to keep the city and too proud to accept Aurvandilan food to feed it. The only real comparison you can make is to say if Evanburg was a city and we lost it due to starvation and then you make a neutral realm in it. You cannot say Candiels and act like it is a fair comparison as it is our only city, our capital, the place where we were founded and it wouldn't be a region we lose due to incompetent administration but instead through military conquest. There is a world of difference.
The real reason that the northern realms attacked the new colony is because they can't march any further south. Morale losses due to distance from home are BIG. They marched all that way for weeks and then sat around for days waiting for Terran to figure out what was going on before hey finally figured out which way the sword points. By that time they had been in the field for a really long time and they couldn't march much further south. They had to attack something. Anything. So the new colony got clobbered.
Ya know why I see Fioreniza, Falkirk, and Aurvandil as the same?
The have the same freaking color on the statistics page. It's annoying as hell. Gotta kill at least two of them just to make the stats page readable again.
Curious: is that intentional, or the result of some inherited property from secessions?
It's probably the reason why Mendicant likes Glaumring and Aslyon, despite them both entirely disagreeing on everything from war, to religion, to the way Asylon runs it's kingdom. Glaumring may be eccentric and Asylon entirely opposite to Aurvandil on a lot of things, but at least you have a proper diplomatic negotiation with them without pretence or slimy political deals, that is when you can get a straight and consistent answer from Glaumring however, the amount of times he changes his mind over topics when talking to Mendicant is staggering. He seemed to do it every other letter during his war with Kabrinskia.
"Letter from Florence Endellion (3 hours, 55 minutes ago) Message sent to the Rulers of Dwilight (16 recipients) The notion of Provincia di Fiorenza being used as an extension of Aurvandil was already considered,such is why I have drawn up agreements with third parties such as Asylon where they have already sworn to defend our neutrality by force of arms,which includes invading the Provincia should we break the neutrality.
If such treaties are insufficient to dissuade you from war,then it is clear you do not care either way,whether or not Provincia di Fiorenza is truly neutral.
Florence Endellion Gonfaloniere of Provincia di Fiorenza Duchess of Florentine City-State of Paisly Margravine of Paisly"
?
**Edit** - A bit to eager on the post button.
Well, That is Glaumring for you, BUT Asylon has another King now, people seem to forget that.
Curious: is that intentional, or the result of some inherited property from secessions?
Hey at least I change my mind consistantly... What usually happens is I throw out ideas all the time and then when a better idea comes I throw out that one too. I wont stick too something that I know wont work once seeing it from an angle, I think and talk on my feet. Things change fast in war and many of the rulers in Dwilight think way too slow and do not communicate or throw ideas out often. Im an idea man.
You are obviously completely ignorant of what Paisly means to the Véinsørmoot. It is the jewel of the Maroccidens, it is the birthplace of Maroccidental culture, civilization, and society. Melodia was born there and started the long tradition of Maroccidental Republics and societies. From there Nobles spread to Terran and the Dragon Isles and eventually nobles passed through Paisly to come to Terran to create Barca.
Furthermore, there is a history of fighting to protect the city from Southern invaders and conquerors. We fought long, drawn out wars against Madina to keep the city when they refused to release their claim on it. Aurvandil taking the city is just ripping open all of the old wounds of Southern Imperialists always trying to impose and conquer in the Maroccidens and the small realms vying to stay alive and keep their land. You are Madina reborn.
It isn't different at all. Sure, it's not technically the "Capital" of any realm. But as much as Candiels is the birthplace of Aurvandil and their culture and their history, Paisly is the same thing, except with an even deeper and longer history and significance, to the entire Maroccidens. There is reason why Terran is fighting so hard for regions that aren't even theirs to begin with.
Literally, conquering Paisly and putting some insulting puppet realm there (and here I thought relations couldn't get any worse) is the worst thing you could have ever done for relations with the Maroccidental realms short of just taking Terran, Barca, and D'Hara off the map.
In one letter you would decry that you were definitely going to lose, a few minutes later in a second letter you would say the opposite, that kind of thing in every exchange, you had Mendicant sitting there going "wtf" at how bipolar Glaumring seemed to be.
I think the important thing to take away from this thread is that, on Dwilight, everybody lies to everyone.
I think the important thing to take away from this thread is that, on Dwilight, everybody lies to everyone. This is part of why there's such a disconnect between what's being observed IC and what's being offered up OOC.
A gross generalization, and untrue.
Snip
Liar.
Trust no one.
Welcome to the group.
Now trying dealing with that while fighting a politically high tensioned war alongside him. Phew.
"We are losing. We are winning. We are making peace with Kabrinskia. We signed a Cease Fire. WE ARE INVADING KABRINSKIA WOOOO. !@#$ we are losing. WE ARE TAKING ON THE WORLD!!! Why is everyone backing off of us diplomatically?"
I change my mind according to what is going on on the ground, during that war I was talking to Kabrinskia,D'Hara, Terran , Aurvandiil, Morek, Corsanctum, Barca , my own nobles, random nobles , Astrum when they deigned a reply, the Zuma and myself. Sometimes things and ideas change so fast, one minute you see 26k of Terrans going to fight 13k Kabrinskians and you formulate 20 possible outcomes, then you see that army destroyed and you are back to square one. I cannot considering holding to a strategy diplomatically if I know it will fail. During the war our strategy stayed consistant, wage a defensive war of attrition, lose lands up north that were undefendable, send out raiding parties to slowly destroy the Kabrinskian economy , fight close to Asylon. What did people think? That we would march on Astrum , sit in Golden Farrow? We werent waging that type of war, we intended to hunker down and fight Astrum, the largest economy/army in dwilight, plus Kabrinskia in close proximity and fight them into a quagmire. The strategy worked but at what cost? Asylon is poor, over 50000 people died of starvation, our army was shattered, our lands damaged, our cities ransacked. Yet we survived. I proved all the naysayers wrong, that Asylon would fold, that Itau would fall that Astrum and ilk would destroy us, all proved wrong, we learned to fight our first war in BM ever since Dwilights founding I havent fought more than monsters and we felt it was time to make trouble and have fun. I proved that Asylonian nobles are strong and we work together against all odds, so yeah you can make fun of me, call me crazy, but it takes a lot of balls to do what I did and survive.
It's not even that Dwilight looks AWFULLY SIMILAR TO WESTEROS put in front of a mirror:
I think the important thing to take away from this thread is that, on Dwilight, everybody lies to everyone.
Rabisu's never lied, by omission or otherwise. Total naif.
Was this intentional? You just blew my mind.
Yes I sort of mentioned it to Machiavel and Rynn that I didn't know why they were so ... bothered about Paisly and neither of them went into as much detail as you did. As Mendicant said, well he'll always be ignorant if his opponents won't offer him their perspective when asked.
I think the important thing to take away from this thread is that, on Dwilight, everybody lies to everyone.
Regarding realm stats page colors: I do hope people realize that was a joke. Though it is always unsettling to see the Big Blob of White on the dynamic map.
This is not even true. You do realize that we were waiting for everyone to arrive, right? You do realize that not ever single Astroist realm shipped their troops off on the same day, to arrive on the same day? No, it was a constant trickle of arrivals all the way up until the day we marched. We knew exactly what our goal was from day 1, it's pretty straightforward. It had nothing to do with trying "to figure out what was going on."
Sheesh.
Yes I sort of mentioned it to Machiavel and Rynn that I didn't know why they were so ... bothered about Paisly and neither of them went into as much detail as you did. As Mendicant said, well he'll always be ignorant if his opponents won't offer him their perspective when asked.
I was born in Raviel during the reign of Melodia. I served in Shadovar until the D'Haran refugees waged a coup and split the kingdom and then later destroyed it.
If anyone has a claim over Paisly it is I! 8)
Or at least that Dwilight is the best continent ever and is so much fun because it is constantly dynamic, there aren't the years and years old power structures/blocs/groups, and there is always something interesting or fun going on somewhere on the island.
You were kicked out. You were never lord of Paisly.
Sorry, you're out.
Kicked out? I was banned for standing up for the elders of Shadovar and speaking out against the D'Haran Dragon lords for their disrespect to the gentry of Shadovar after the revolution. My ban was later lifted once D'Hara realized that they were wrong. If D'Hara hadn't of done that I would never have made it to where I am now, history would have been very different!
I was banned while it was still Shadovar I think, I cant remember was so long ago. Really hazy memory.
D'Hara lifted the ban ages ago... And apologized ...lolz 8)
I was born in Raviel during the reign of Melodia. I served in Shadovar until the D'Haran refugees waged a coup and split the kingdom and then later destroyed it.
If anyone has a claim over Paisly it is I! 8)
That isn't how the chatter from the SAers is sounding. I've heard from a few nobles in different realms complaining about Terrans military and how it is unorganized and how they were waiting for Terran.
Because living somewhere gives you claim. right.
you should probably quote chenier in this too.
Because living somewhere gives you claim. right.
What in the world? That's frustrating then. I honestly don't know what they want. It isn't like Terran is supposed to command their armies or something. Hell, the one time I did send an order to their nobles I got barked at for ordering their nobles!
Why? He isn't saying that.lived in paisly. lost paisly. claims paisly?
lived in paisly. lost paisly. claims paisly?big difference- glaumring just lived there, Chenier was duke/lord of Paisly and thus claims it, as it was his previously.
lived in paisly. lost paisly. claims paisly?
So.... what kind of claim does pwning Paisly get you? ;)
big difference- glaumring just lived there, Chenier was duke/lord of Paisly and thus claims it, as it was his previously.
So.... what kind of claim does pwning Paisly get you? ;)
Now, we are allied with the new Colony =)
Yeah we should just join the winners at the expense of our values and souls
Yeah we should just join the winners at the expense of our values and souls
Or you could just not get involved, since it doesn't concern Asylon in the least. *mind blown*
Asylon are allied with the Paisley colony so it does involve Asylon since Paisley is currently under attack.
Perhaps you could know what your talking about before opening your mouth? *Mind Blown*
What are you talking about? You called on 50 allies to come attack a 3 noble kingdom. We wish to support new realms in the area. We dont need to help, barely able but we support the order of things in the west being shooken up a bit and some diversity in the region. You are merely trying to hold onto old glory wrapped in corrupt obsolesence.
What are you talking about? You called on 50 allies to come attack a 3 noble kingdom. We wish to support new realms in the area. We dont need to help, barely able but we support the order of things in the west being shooken up a bit and some diversity in the region. You are merely trying to hold onto old glory wrapped in corrupt obsolesence.
Yeah! Bring it on!
Oh no! Someone is going to use my bad attitude on the forums to affect their ingame reaction!
What if the certain type of character you're roleplaying likes to be on the winning side, likes fame and a good reputation, and doesn't particularly enjoy being an oppressed or loud and angry minority?
What if the certain type of character you're roleplaying likes to be on the winning side, likes fame and a good reputation, and doesn't particularly enjoy being an oppressed or loud and angry minority?
What if the certain type of character you're roleplaying likes to be on the winning side, likes fame and a good reputation, and doesn't particularly enjoy being an oppressed or loud and angry minority?
Then you probably shouldn't roleplay in a game where you can't win?
Like Indirik?
You've said that before. Still makes no sense.
You mean Indirik?You're just jealous of my success. ;D
He is implying Indirik has successfully won at battlemaster
You're just jealous of my success. ;D
That is certainly one possible way of running your characters. Brance, however, is a builder. He creates things and nurtures them to make them grow. He's not so much nationalistic as he is religious. He is devoted to spreading the faith of the Bloodstars across the entire island. I just wish I had more time to devote to actually doing it. :(
I totally forgot auto da fe were stopped by troops present... I was thinking it was only claim region that does that, for a moment.
Did it wreck the armies (doubtful), or did it wreck region stats?
Rather ironic, though, that the invading forces would capture me and send me to their enemy's dungeons...
Should make for interesting roleplay though...
A bit akward... "FAITHFUL, RISE AGAINST THE USURPERS OF PAISLY, RID US OF FLORENCE!" Faithful go to torch her estates, invading forces go all "Noooo! Don't burn Florence's estates! Die crazy mob! Let's arrest that priest and hand him over to the authorities we are trying to destroy!"
That is certainly one possible way of running your characters. Brance, however, is a builder. He creates things and nurtures them to make them grow. He's not so much nationalistic as he is religious. He is devoted to spreading the faith of the Bloodstars across the entire island. I just wish I had more time to devote to actually doing it. :(Really with I had time to devote to Elsebeth . . . well, maybe she will wake up from her coma someday.
How is that Florencia Provencia Whatever holding out? Who is running the TO?
All I know is that they have Paisly and Paisland. Paisly is under TO, but I don't know who is doing it. Astrum forces are there. There are occasional battles, and some skirmishes.
Morek's failed. Corsanctum started, but I'm not sure they're putting much effort into it.
Last I saw Terran was well on the way to TOing Paisland. If Provincia gets an army we'll walk back in and stomp them again– but starvation will handle them eventually. Then Chenier can RTO it to his heart's content and them narsty soldiers won't arrest him.
Hrmm... I suppose you're right. Well, they have plenty of chances to recover from this, as long as they manage to keep the capital itself from going rogue. It's not like someone can take advantage of this by an invasion. Terran is probably the only one that would be in a position to do it, but I doubt they could do anything about it right now.
D'hara could invade! Try and type that with a straight face. Even if Luria weren't invading, try and say it with a straight face.
With 3 nobles and no gold, why not? It'd be just like reclaiming a rogue region.
Except that this one was fed and it loves us, as opposed to starving regions that hate us and that don't have lords until the eternal referendums end.
Yea, I know, we coulda handled those better...
Aurvandil, not the Provincia.
D'hara could invade! Try and type that with a straight face. Even if Luria weren't invading, try and say it with a straight face.Personally I think with the judge being stricter by imposing fines for military disobedience we could see D'hara improving militarily. Invade Aurvandil single handedly, yeah that's pretty laughable but coordinating with Terran to invade, if the fines started getting done, maybe after some strict discipline got done. D'harans still haven't really gotten used to following orders immediately IMO, which sounds stupid but we have been in peace for so long getting to do whatever we want, whenever we want basically that following military orders do get done, just very slowly.
Personally I think with the judge being stricter by imposing fines for military disobedience we could see D'hara improving militarily. Invade Aurvandil single handedly, yeah that's pretty laughable but coordinating with Terran to invade, if the fines started getting done, maybe after some strict discipline got done. D'harans still haven't really gotten used to following orders immediately IMO, which sounds stupid but we have been in peace for so long getting to do whatever we want, whenever we want basically that following military orders do get done, just very slowly.
Reason 146 why Terran made a policy of marching off on military expeditions once a year or so.
Of course, it didn't help us that much: only the urgency of this present war has really gotten our armies moving.
We are just chilling currently. It's Brovandil up in here we are broing it up left right and center.No drive to help out Provencia so they can preserve their neutrality?
nuetrality would be coded out if we tried to save it :Ptrue I guess. Do you know what happened to Asylon helping preserve neutrality ? It seems Aurvandil really does hate me, I don't want them to attack us and they fight, now I wish they would attack and no battle. ( I really need one more prestige point.)
We are just chilling currently. It's Brovandil up in here we are broing it up left right and center.
There was little we could do we dont want to attack Terran and all we could do was support the colony as an ideal. We support small kingdoms and want more diversity in the westlands. We see Dwilight turning into a hegemony before our eyes and believe kingdoms should be more nationalistic independent and wary of outsiders its our unique north korean style of rp lolTotally agree.
There was little we could do we dont want to attack Terran
My goal with Alura is to provide a counter-balance to Allison's crazy with her own form of crazy. Where Allison's a b*tch that plots everyone's downfall and sows discord wherever she walks, I want Alura to be the crazy Terran ruler who makes friends with *everyone*, sees the potential in any situation, and likes to give little nudges in the right direction so that things become more interesting without having to resort to bull!@#$ politicking and backstabbing.
I'm surprised, I've managed to play this for 6 months without betraying anyone or even really plotting. Weird. I've never roleplayed an overly-forward but politically-inclined character before. I'm having quite a bit of fun with Alura. :) Its refreshing to be super-forward where everyone else is lying about anything and everything :P When your words can't be used against you unless you allow them to, it really opens up a few interesting routes.
Apparently i am now Asylon's banker as well as aurvandil...or thats what Terran thinks atleast.
Asylon hasnt done anything to make anyone think we support Aurvandiil beyond mentioning it on these forums. Asides from supporting a small colony there is absolutely no reason to think that Asylon is in cahoots with Aurvandiil. Perhaps we are, perhaps we are in with the Zuma, the Kabrinskians... The Terrans.Zuma...sure you are, Kabrinskia...dead and irrelevant, Terran...haha, like they would trust you.
Asylon hasnt done anything to make anyone think we support Aurvandiil beyond mentioning it on these forums.
Kabrinskia...dead and irrelevant
What right does D'Hara have to a city that has been owned by five other kingdoms in its history?So you think that only the very first realm to own a city has any right to it? So what right do the newcomer Asylonians have to the city of Via? Or Itau?
Indirik, your version of Dwilight history is SA. The rest of us have our own histories that are just as important and complex as your own history. What right does D'Hara have to a city that has been owned by five other kingdoms in its history? Madinans, Melodians, Shadovaran, D'Haran and Provencia. Its importance is pertinent to who holds it important and the situations in Dwilight have nothing to do with black and white solutions. If we ran the world like a train, a machine a click what importance do the passions of its nobility have in the grand scheme of things.
I strive to create drama, I strive to create situations both beneficial and a bane to my character. I know most of you strive for safety and predictable outcomes. I see a greek tragedy where you see a boardgame.
Being consistant is boring...
Indirik your way of seeing things is only one way. Its not the only way. We support the new colony because if the whole map is SA Dwilight will become very dull and probably lose a lot of players out of boredom and if Dwilight is made of only a few power groups new players will lose interest. We want new faces in power, and creating different dynamics on Dwilight. You want a bunch of kingdoms surrounding you that are all the same, we want to be surrounded by difference. We are proud to be free.
Well, I'm just a newcomer but I've followed with interest this topic. My opinion probably worth less than the time you spend reading it, but hey, talk is cheap and I would like to give it a try ;Dhttp://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hegemony
Of course realms come and go and the regions they owned change of rulers, but D'Hara was (I don't know for how long) ruler of Paisly until the new colony was founded. They're in their right to fight to get it back, as any other realm has the right to support or fight this decision.
It's also my opinion that the more different realms there are, the more fun and diversity we can enjoy. But as I've read, Asylon has supported the Province for the sake of this diversity while it has become a huge hegemony in Dwilight. Something is missing here ::)
And if you, the second-largest realm on the continent I believe, really want to support diversity, then why the hell don't you actually do something about it. You could either break up yourselves, or act on your words.
Asylon hasnt done anything to make anyone think we support Aurvandiil beyond mentioning it on these forums. Asides from supporting a small colony there is absolutely no reason to think that Asylon is in cahoots with Aurvandiil.
Because both IC-wise and OOC-wise the Dukes of Asylon belive that once we split up in our seperate kingdoms, Astrum or Kabrinskia(well not anymore) will come marching in and start forcing us to worship their stars. At the moment we will remain united.
People say Asylon is a big realm but they never take into account we are apart of no federations or organizations. SA is one giant realm, SA will never fight SA. The Moot is one large realm they will never fight eachother. Asylon allies according to situations, we feel no need to have everyone on the map love us.
Right... but supporting that realm is a really big reason to think Asylon is buddies with Aurvandil. There doesn't need be other reasons. When you are supporting a realm conquering the heart of their enemy and setting up new colonies there, its a pretty good indication that you support that realm. In fact, it doesn't get much more supportive than that.
Whats wrong with supporting Aurvandiil? All I hear about is SA plans to invade Asylon from even before the war against Kabrinskia. The only Astroist state that Asylon gets along with is Morek.
If we support SA we support all of our eventual dooms, for all kingdoms not a theocracy are merely a tool to be used by SA. There is no room for diversity in fundamentalist theocracy and if you think SA will change to accomadate your diverse kingdom you are wrong.
Whats wrong with supporting Aurvandiil?
No it wasn't that it was something else.
you would be shocked to find out how many nobles in the moot and SA oppose SA and actually support stemming its gargantuan growth.Actually, I would not be all that surprised about it. Most of us are quite certain that there are a significant number of members that are actually plants/spies/etc. It doesn't take much to figure this out. Just say something bad about Mendicant, or about attacking Aurvandil, in the Full Members channel, and chances are that in a few days someone will slip you a letter about how someone in Aurvandil is laughing it up at that letter. We've kicked out a few obvious spies/plants, but we all know there are more.
Anaris, you dont have to believe what I say. The truth will eventually get out on its own and in a few months or years, doesnt matter I will be vindicated.
See, this is the kind of thing that makes you sound like a nutcase, and ensures that no one but those already devoted to you believes a word you say.+1, especially when his truth is that he knows other people's thoughts and opinions and the actual people are just lying. Which is what he is saying for Terran, and Vellos specifically.
Asylon doesnt even know why Terran stopped being friendly.
Probably it had to do with flip flopping during the Terran-Kabrinskia war.
No it wasn't that it was something else.
I remember not long ago Aurvandiil and D'Hara were buddy buddy and it wasnt until Aurvandiil attacked Barca that your opinions so drastically changed about Aurvandiil. I remember, you can deny but things used to be very different indeed.
The Moot ended its friendship with Asylon because it was convenient. Asylon doesnt even know why Terran stopped being friendly.
Probably it had to do with flip flopping during the Terran-Kabrinskia war.
We will disagree on the things that happened. The fact is two things did happen and none of us know which it was. So we can argue forever about it.
it was correctly predicted that the Lurias would strike at us whenever they got the chance to
So basically my opinion or how I saw things doesnt matter? The truth only comes out of your friends mouths I just lie all the time?
Yeah but no one believes my version of what I did.
Chenier and Vellos are lying arrogant pricks... That hasn't changed since the beginning.
No my story has been fairly consistant since the beginning...
Yeah Im totally cray cray... :o
Yes consistancy in a roleplaying game is boring. I am
Not trying to win BM. Sometimes in BM even when things are going good you have to shake things up. Bringing us back to the Asylon Kabrinskian war, one all the nobles of Asylon wanted to fight because we were bored and wanted to do something different, good or bad. If im crazy then so are 31 nobles in Asylon because we all decided on every course of action together.
Oh for !@#$ sakes , do you have anything to do today? Your opinions are irrelevant, there is already a lot of people ingame that I talk to and we have good relations and have nothing to do with your opinions so I know your opinion is complete bull!@#$. So drop it.
Oh for !@#$ sakes , do you have anything to do today? Your opinions are irrelevant, there is already a lot of people ingame that I talk to and we have good relations and have nothing to do with your opinions so I know your opinion is complete bull!@#$. So drop it.
Oh for !@#$ sakes , do you have anything to do today? Your opinions are irrelevant, there is already a lot of people ingame that I talk to and we have good relations and have nothing to do with your opinions so I know your opinion is complete bull!@#$. So drop it.
Dali Lama : started his own religion
lolwut?
Lol ;D
Oh come on it was a joke...
Yeah, that's one of those classic self-fulfilling prophecies. If you hadn't been all chatting about how best to get the drop on Luria before we attacked you (or whatever; I don't remember the exact substance of the messages leaked), Luria wouldn't have attacked you.
(Then. At some point, yeah, we almost certainly would have, but it probably wouldn't have had to happen right then.)
Arrogant I'll grant you, and Chénier has a tendency to spin propaganda until he believes it himself, but Vellos is usually pretty much on the level when he's OOC.
If you really believe that at this point, then you've got some problems, mate.
Regardless of the timing, it was coming one way or another.Yeah, but the reason it happened when it did was your somewhat clumsy attempts to prepare for it.
All I said was D'Hara and Machiavel's stances on Glaumring's actions. I fail to see how I can be incorrect.
I can be arrogant and condescending, sure. And sometimes I tend to use hyperboles. But I can't think of anything I expressed in this thread to be incorrect or a lie.
Yeah, but the reason it happened when it did was your somewhat clumsy attempts to prepare for it.
+1
Leaks of D'Haran preparations led to a Lurian mobilization. Oops.
Since its already been announced to half the world, lets make it official on the forums as well.
Lady Alura Aurea, Chief Magistrate of Terran, and Lord Rynn JeVondair, Prime Minister of D'hara are to be forever known as husband and wife from this day forth! This is the first time in history that two rulers have been wed (that I could find), it is a historical moment for Dwilight and the 'Moot!
</yay>
This is the first time in history that two rulers have been wed (that I could find), it is a historical moment for Dwilight and the 'Moot!
First time i used the internet was in 1994 ...
Since its already been announced to half the world, lets make it official on the forums as well.
Lady Alura Aurea, Chief Magistrate of Terran, and Lord Rynn JeVondair, Prime Minister of D'hara are to be forever known as husband and wife from this day forth! This is the first time in history that two rulers have been wed (that I could find), it is a historical moment for Dwilight and the 'Moot!
</yay>
Webcrawler/yahoo and altavista were the web browsers of choice... Im ancient
Those were search engines... Not browsers. I am glad to have google now.
No moreQuadvrium#2Fiorenzazzaz. 8)
I wonder if the Aurvandi army arriving plans to refound it again?
a waste of time, [...] is what Aurvandil is [...]
Fixed that for you.
a waste of time, [...] is what Aurvandil is [...]
Fixed that for you.
Well, it would be profligate and a waste of time, but then that is what Aurvandil is about.
It's perfectly in character for Mendicant to let the Provincia fall, so he could come and conquer it again. Letting D'Hara take Paisly so he can arrive and declare "lol no" which would amuse him, particularly as D'Hara are so determined to keep Paisly.
ooook, that makes sense.
I assume you are talking about D'hara declaring war on Provencia, then D'harans saw that as an insult because we were firm on keeping Paisly, I believe you said something like, if you guys remain neutral, sure. Then we remained neutral, Aurvandil made Provencia in Paisly. We were pissed but dealt with it, but Machievel went and attempted a religious uprising, got arrested, and we were just like, ok I guess, then Machievel told us he was tortured and we got pissed enough to remain neutral. So were we trying to workaround the neutrality? Yeah, but torture of our most respected noble and longest standing one was not needed.
Well to be blunt, D'Hara rather chose to create this waste of time when they declared war and overrode peace talks. Aurvandil didn't want to waste our time faffing around with D'Hara and Terran.
No, I mean when D'Hara originally declared war starting this whole affair from the beginning. Their declaration of war on the Provincia was a given, D'Hara could never be trusted to uphold their sworn neutrality in the first place.
You mean, we can be trusted to uphold the Treaty of the Marcoccidens (http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/V%C3%A9ins%C3%B8rmoot/Treaty_of_the_Maroccidens)?
I'll take that as a compliment.
No, I mean when D'Hara originally declared war starting this whole affair from the beginning. Their declaration of war on the Provincia was a given, D'Hara could never be trusted to uphold their sworn neutrality in the first place.
that still isn't much of a sign that you want them to stay neutral.
If you don't believe they stay neutral in the first place then you don't give it much of a chance either, if its worth it or not.
Its like beeing isreal (or hamas)saying we bomb gaza(or tel aviv/askhelon) because eventually the neutrality would be broken anyway.
If your goal is war in the first place, your doing a great job.
Well, I put neutrality out there because the peace process is worth the effort, whether it's successful or not. I never expected them to uphold it, but they said they would, and that lead to Rynn making a public oath about it, which quite evidently was meaningless.
Which came at betraying your sworn neutrality.
Break one agreement to uphold another when you feel like it, yeah you're trustworthy all right when you flip flop from agreement to agreement when it suits you. (But, at least you admit you couldn't be trusted to uphold your neutrality).
thats clears it up, you just want war and use 'peace' negotiations just to stall the war when needed(for example if your kingdom crumbles within).
:P
But what would you have done IF they where indeed not breaking any agreement?
Attack anyway?
I was the PM of D'Hara who declared war on Aurvandil. When did I promise neutrality to you, or anyone else?
No, I mean when D'Hara originally declared war starting this whole affair from the beginning. Their declaration of war on the Provincia was a given, D'Hara could never be trusted to uphold their sworn neutrality in the first place.You Aurvandilians say honor is important but when anybody else is honorable they are the worst. By our federation, we were honor bound to declare but it doesn't say, " Declare war when your army is on spread out all around your realm so your enemy can easily come in and destroy the realm with little to no resistance. You complain that the Barcans were doing peace talks but they are pretty crappy federation members because they rarely communicate anything including that so we were just going about the procedure, get the armies ready, then declare war.
...Rynn did.He was made PM after we declared war, so the promise of neutrality he made in the future was supposed to stop us from declaring war?
You Aurvandilians say honor is important but when anybody else is honorable they are the worst. By our federation, we were honor bound to declare but it doesn't say, " Declare war when your army is on spread out all around your realm so your enemy can easily come in and destroy the realm with little to no resistance. You complain that the Barcans were doing peace talks but they are pretty crappy federation members because they rarely communicate anything including that so we were just going about the procedure, get the armies ready, then declare war.
Next you claim we were not being neutral, but we considered that being through the ways you asked, don't help Terran or any other realm against Aurvandil, which we did and you were supposed to give us Paisly. Then you make a realm we strictly said would not be tolerated as Paisly is ours and you even told you would give it to us, and we still remained neutral through official diplomacy and did not aid any realm against both Aurvandil, which we agreed to, and to Provencia despite the realm being a slap in the face to D'hara. Then abiding by the things said above, as I said official diplomacy, Machieval really wants Paisly so he attempts to religiously take it, gets tortured which was the last straw. Provencia picked the worst person to torture, second only to the Prime Minister, and then expects us to be alright with it. We should have declared war on it from the second it was made but we tried to be nice, while Provencia acted like Aurvandil but without the military power to stop people from declaring war when others got fed up with them.
He was made PM after we declared war, so the promise of neutrality he made in the future was supposed to stop us from declaring war?
He was the PM who signed a ceasefire agreement and then swore himself to neutrality.And we have not declared war on Aurvandil or done anything to hurt Aurvandil directly since.
And we have not declared war on Aurvandil or done anything to hurt Aurvandil directly since.
We say honour is important, and honour isn't an excuse for invading some one else's war when they don't want you to, under the pretence of helping them.To your first point, that's why I said Barcans are bad federated partners, we were told Aurvandil was attacking them and so we came to their aid, they never once told us about peace talks despite considerable amounts of coordinating our armies through the halls of the Veinsormoot which includes Barca's ruler and other high ranking members so if us aiding them was a bad idea, they could have at least mentioned it since they knew we were going to be declaring war. To your second point, to the moot it felt like a sucker punch because as I said, Barcans don't like to communicate, I am not saying it was a sucker punch though, it's just that's how every character out of Barca and Aurvandil see it.
And actually, Barca were perfectly aware of my movements a week before the invasion and we made no effort to conceal it, then our Knight Hausos arrived a day before the war declaration to inform them of the Aurvandilan intent to war and to tell them that are to provide terms on which the war is fought. Meaning Barca chooses when, where and how the war is fought, Suffete Karana refused so Aurvandil marched straight into Rettleville to punish Galvez, the Duke and the offender. As much as you would like to paint it as Aurvandil sucker punched Barca before they had a chance to defend themselves, that isn't the case.
Also I don't recall how Aurvandil was "supposed" to give D'Hara Paisly, you refused our terms for the handover, but still declared that you would be entirely neutral.Next, we were told if we remain neutral we get Paisly, what terms did we refuse for the handover? Also two main points to your following paragraph, we are not saying was Machievel did was right or that it warrants cause for a war, what caused the war was the torturing of Machievel which topped off all the other things they did to piss us off. Lady Florence was in no danger of any serious harm, she would have been kicked out of the position of margrave of Paisly and Machievel would have took the position, making it D'hara's. Lady Florence's only serious damage would have been to her pride. Want to argue? Look at every other religious uprising in BM, the peasants did no serious damage to the previous holder of position.
And the fact D'Hara supports Chenier's action is the main reason why Aurvandil will now utterly waste Paisly and D'Hara, you don't support a man who abused his position as a priest to unleash a mob on a Lady, which as all reports state, would have had her raped, beaten and killed on the streets of Paisly, now this man is also an Ambassador of D'Hara and a guest in Paisly, which makes his acts thoroughly shameful and heinous, below honour and decency. But you act as if you Ambassador did nothing wrong, despite launching an act of war and when it failed, using that act of war as an excuse for actual war under the pretence of defending yourself.
Aurvandil has had enough of D'Hara and particularly of your constant political manoeuvring.
Well, you interfered in the wars of the west (Breaking your sworn neutrality in the west) and attacked a realm that was under the protection of Aurvandil in instance that it comes under foreign attack, something D'Hara was perfectly aware of when they declared war.We swore neutrality to Aurvandil saying we would not aid either side of your war, we did not say we would remain neutral to any war in the west for one, and secondly, a nation has to actually act neutral to be neutral. If they aren't being neutral we are not the ones violating neutrality, they are.
To your first point, that's why I said Barcans are bad federated partners, we were told Aurvandil was attacking them and so we came to their aid, they never once told us about peace talks despite considerable amounts of coordinating our armies through the halls of the Veinsormoot which includes Barca's ruler and other high ranking members so if us aiding them was a bad idea, they could have at least mentioned it since they knew we were going to be declaring war.
To your second point, to the moot it felt like a sucker punch because as I said, Barcans don't like to communicate, I am not saying it was a sucker punch though, it's just that's how every character out of Barca and Aurvandil see it. Next, we were told if we remain neutral we get Paisly, what terms did we refuse for the handover? Also two main points to your following paragraph, we are not saying was Machievel did was right or that it warrants cause for a war, what caused the war was the torturing of Machievel which topped off all the other things they did to piss us off. Lady Florence was in no danger of any serious harm, she would have been kicked out of the position of margrave of Paisly and Machievel would have took the position, making it D'hara's. Lady Florence's only serious damage would have been to her pride. Want to argue? Look at every other religious uprising in BM, the peasants did no serious damage to the previous holder of position.
We swore neutrality to Aurvandil saying we would not aid either side of your war, we did not say we would remain neutral to any war in the west for one, and secondly, a nation has to actually act neutral to be neutral. If they aren't being neutral we are not the ones violating neutrality, they are.
And what exactly did the Provincia do to attack D'Hara?
No, I mean when D'Hara originally declared war starting this whole affair from the beginning. Their declaration of war on the Provincia was a given, D'Hara could never be trusted to uphold their sworn neutrality in the first place.
Sworn neutrality my ass. We made it clear from day one that D'Hara would not tolerate a foreign polity in Paisly.
Well, you interfered in the wars of the west (Breaking your sworn neutrality in the west) and attacked a realm that was under the protection of Aurvandil in instance that it comes under foreign attack, something D'Hara was perfectly aware of when they declared war.
Letter from Glaumring Apasurain
(Personal message to Alura Aurea)
Magistrate, I would like to apologize to Terran for the previous war and take responsibility for the confusion caused during that time. My kingdom has paid a heavy price for my actions and I hope to turn things around and redeem myself.
Glaumring Apasurain
Viscount of Vakreno Heaps
Priest of Cult of Bloodmoon
Well, here's the question, I think, Chénier: can you be absolutely certain that Rynn never promised something utterly boneheaded to them, and didn't fully inform the realm of it? Because our impression of him in Luria suggests that he might do just that...
I remember a time when D'Hara was going to ally with Aurvandiil but Vellos in Terran hated Aurvandiil so much it wasn't allowed to happen. I remember D'Hara was going to be a launch point for Aurvandiil to attack north. Good thing that never happened... But to think D'Hara even entertaining the thought and so recently! ::)
Yes, because you are clearly the #1 source to understand what D'Hara said and what's going on in D'Hara.
What goes on in D'Hara and the 'moot isn't some kind of simple dichotomy as you present it. All of your points are either misleading or outright false.
Had D'Hara wanted to ally with Aurvandil, it would have done so. Terran has no authority to tell us otherwise. As for "attack north", change "north" for "Kabrinskia", and put it in context of Kabrinskian aggressions, then water it down a bunch, and maybe you'll get a picture that's somewhat close to what happened.
D'Hara's strategy via Aurvandil was always to pacify via friendship. Aurvandil was a mighty erratic realm that'd we would have rather seen attack others than ourselves. That doesn't mean we wanted to go attack others with them, much less ally them. The only time some people proposed an alliance was to get rid of Madina, and that was just a few people who merely brought the idea up without ever insisting on it.
Oh Chenier always tonne of convenient ways out... You silver-tongued devil you
Who are you anyways? His alt account?
Your opinion of me means jack !@#$.
I used to rule a kingdom Chenier, we used to talk all the time.. All of these things we spoke of together ingame, when we used to be friends of course.
I remember many things and I merely point out after reading many things in this thread that you are a shifty one, your position shifts like the wind when it comes down to it. You shifted on Asylon, on Terran , on Aurvandiil... The only time D'Hara has actually done anything for any of its allies is when it is actually in need of a city returned.
Shifty opportunist...
Machiavel is pragmatic. He owes his allegiance to D'Hara, nothing else. However, he also does value his engagements. Which is why he makes sure to offer as little solid promises as possible, and often speaks as vaguely as he can.
As for shifting on Terran, ask Vellos if he thinks D'Hara failed them. He'd be the best one to say, not you. And Aurvandil... they attacked our federated ally, not the other way around. Finally, for Asylon, we only had a defensive agreement. Machiavel would have never supported any offensive campaign against Kabrinskia, which he viewed as making D'Hara vulnerable to Lurian sneak attacks.
Yes, but everyone else doesn't dictate what others think of them. Nor do they reject actual facts and keep clinging on to the idyllic world wherein their opinions are the only things that matter.
Sworn neutrality my ass. We made it clear from day one that D'Hara would not tolerate a foreign polity in Paisly.
For the record, you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about regarding D'haran attitudes because you saw it from Aurvandil's side which obviously was not involved in the internal affairs of D'hara and Terran, Noblesse.
Rynn and D'hara completely went neutral for a significant portion of time, giving absolutely no aid to allied forces, which caused great strife between Alura and Rynn, and nearly ruined their relationship. Pissed us the hell off, it did. I was ready to write off D'hara at one point. Rynn was very hopeful and dedicated to stay neutral and I very pointedly remember the inconsistencies in Mendicant's actions and words being the cause of strife. Not to mention the supposed Lurian supporters who were working for Mendicant behind the scenes, though that's all speculation and pointless. Hell, Alura has contacts in every nation on the continent, that doesn't mean their entire nations are allies or even friendly with Alura (or Terran for that matter), it just means she has a lot of friends. So, on that token, the Lurian thing is just hearsay and can't really be used against Mendy, sadly. Anyway, the point is, Rynn and D'hara in fact WERE neutral, and as much as I tried I couldn't convince them to do otherwise. If it weren't for certain events and things said by Mendicant, the neutrality would have continued. The Provincia thing though was the final !@#$-you. Even with the neutrality ended, D'hara was still not going to re-join the war until that little insult came to be. It completely changed our plans and really brought the entire coalition together, so thank you for giving Rynn an excuse to marry Alura sooner than planned and bring the armies of D'hara to Paisly.
Also, for the record, Barca is horrible at communicating. Despite being a Marshal and then Ruler, I heard absolutely nothing about peace talks, and when it was finally mentioned (and far too late, might I add!), absolutely no details were given. Peace talks should ALWAYS be occurring - that doesn't mean anything's actually happening. Unless we heard from Barca that there was progress in the peace talks and they asked us to back off, it might as well be another empty Gaza Strip trick. Quite the contrary, Barca ran to us and asked us to get involved so we did, and then bailed on us. I literally sent messages to multiple Barcan nobles who, as Aurvandil was closing in, DECIDED TO LEAVE THE REGION. Who the hell LEAVES the gathered armies of the allied forces defending YOUR territory right as the enemy arrives? And not one of them ever bothered to reply to my messages. I have to admit, that was the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen in over a decade playing strategy-war games online. Then, Barca's General went MIA, no one would reply to our damn messages, and we figured Barca had collapsed from within. Next thing I know there's Zuma around and they're coming back to life, and I just scratched my head and wondered what the hell happened in the time they were silent. Barca's leader is actually sort of communicating in the Moot now, once in a blue moon, which is literally the most I've ever heard from Barca in the time I've been playing. I really want to trust and believe in Barca but they've not shown me much reason to. Hell, I've more faith in Asylon's ability to remain (in-)consistent right now than I do in Barca, and that's just sad.
A lot of things could have gone differently... A lot of things.
I thought you said they were "neutral".
Make up your mind. D'Hara didn't attack you. It merely reclaimed its city from Quadvrium#2. Florence could have tried to appease us, rather she pissed us off every chance she got. And her realm paid the price for it.
Rynn consulted Machiavel much on the issue, because Machiavel was involved in a lot of talks with a lot of people at the time.
Both said the same thing to Mendicant: We'll stay neutral in the Western war, but we expect to get Paisly back, and would not tolerate a realm there.
But Mendicant decided to promise us Paisly in exchange for peace, and then changed his mind and created a puppet there instead, because suddenly, D'Hara wasn't worthy of trust.
Just like he had suddenly decided that Barca wasn't a legitimate realm anymore. Or that suddenly the treaty of Evanburg didn't mean anything anymore. Or that suddenly, D'Hara's neutrality towards Aurvandil isn't neutrality anymore.
But clearly, the Chevaliers are the shining examples of honour. You can totally trust them to respect anything they say.
D'Hara offered very simple terms: give Paisly back, and it won't be used in the war. Mendicant first agreed, then changed his mind. D'Hara has yet to break their neutrality towards Aurvandil, they just did what they always said they would, for reasons purely of their own (claims to the region and Florence's aggravating attitude).
So Aurvandil's going to break its neutrality now, is it?
Hillareous how they swear the Florentine squatters are a separate entity, and then are unhappy when a neutral realm settles its feud with them.
Now of course, there's gonna be some nonsense spouting about attempts to rape Florence and whatever. Aurvandil likes to decide what others do for them. I'm thinking we should start RPing how the Aurvandilian forces act ourselves. I'm assuming they probably wear fur speedos and fight with pointed sticks.
And it's hard forMendicantall rulers in history to be consistent in his strategy and palns when he's getting screwed over and told different things by different people all the time with most of them trying to be politicians and playing him, with a constantly changing diplomatic and war front.
In other words, all the time. Otherwise there would never be any war, wouldn't there?
I mean, the ruler of a country acting like he's a politician! Who has heard that before? Preposterous!
Everything Mendicant said about D'Hara and being screwed six ways side ways by a kingdom that is shifty sounds like I myself said it. Secondly enjoyed his statement about inconsistancy, sounds like D'Hara has bit off more than it can chew and others will realize the true nature of its character. And people wonder why I was complaining, now Mendicant is sounding exactly like me... Could it be I wasnt wrong after all? I will be vindicated!
As for Barca, understandable they were hideous to try and talk to in diplomacy, which is what fuelled the invasion, perhaps they'd be more inclined to pay attention to Mendicant and put the effort in when they were given the impetus, a la war. Interesting that Barca asked you to get involved when Suffete Brackern was trumpeting to Mendicant how he agreed this was a duel and one easily resolvable between our two realms with no need for foreign interference whatsoever, and when you did involved made it quite clearly sound as if you forced it on Barca and he had no choice because Barca is just a duchy of the Moot (My way of describing it).
Barca isn't a legitimate realm anymore, they're farmers living under the whim of Reine Démoniaque Haktoo, they're a non state and they lost all legitimacy in doing so. Just a more servile people under the reign of the Zuma Coalition.
While it can be fun to be on the side with the overwhelming numerical advantage (consistently losing a war sucks, after all), some of the funnest times I had in BattleMaster were while playing the smaller, valiant army fighting for survival against multiple, larger invaders. Winning may not be *everything*, but all in all, it's better than losing.Losing is fun because you have to try hard and get all your nobles working together and such to have a chance at winning. So basically, I would say losing is fun because of the challenge of losing, and the unity because your fighting for your realm's survival.
Losing is fun because you have to try hard and get all your nobles working together and such to have a chance at winning. So basically, I would say losing is fun because of the challenge of losing, and the unity because your fighting for your realm's survival.
It's all true.Now only if I can get you to agree with me about Egamma.
also, Aurvandil, please be a doll and attack *after* Thanksgiving :P
As much as you claim to not care what anyone else thinks, you sure do spend a lot of time trying to convince them that you're really the good guy, and that it really is everyone else's fault.
At this point, everyone has already made up their minds. You're not going to convince anyone else to switch sides. Why don't we all just give it a rest? Go have some turkey. Or you can come over to my place. I'm making some homemade pumpkin pie today. Yumm-O! :P
I understand your reasons Glaumring. It has to be really disappointing to be abandoned by your allies in hard times, if that's what really happened. But just think that if they helped Asylon it maybe was because they weren't menaced by anyone else. They've got their Falkirkian Shield-State and Barca in their borders. If the Zuma were frustrating their attempts for a quick and clean conquest over Barca, they could look for some foreigner wars to participate. Maybe D'Hara was under direct menace of Luria in that time, I don't know. But if they were, I can understand they couldn't lose a single man in any other war apart from their survival.
That's why I said a little realm has to be pragmatic. I'm not justifying D'Hara's decisions about you, but I wouldn't see Aurvandil as the altruist ally that it seems they become for you.
They've got their Falkirkian Shield-State
I guess it's quite easy to be independent in a realm with more than the triple of nobles, and a very good proportion of them with quite a lot of experience and wealth to sustain a large troop. I've been playing for little time, and if Aurvandil had hard times, it had to be a long time ago.
When you've got the guarantee of a huge army at your back, you don't have to do politics. You just have to decide which could be a good pretext to invade a region whether it's an active part of an enemy realm, or it has gone rogue for some reason. I can understand it of course, it has to be just awesome. Moreover, it's interesting to see you talk about "being screwed" by constant changes in the diplomatic relations with other realms. Does it really affect Aurvandilians somehow? A king who can move at least 20 nobles whenever he wants, each one of them with at least 700CS has to be difficult to screw, doesn't he?
So you think Barcans are peasants of the Zuma. Yeah, it would be probably much nicer just to blow us from the map to put a good bunch of Fiorenze or just expand your realm; it is surprising to see it bothers you.
Justify your invasions as you like, but please don't show Aurvandil as a victim of the inconsistent politics of other realms. For your fortune, I think you can't be a victim of anyone, and you will be a probable choice for new members (everybody like to fight battles with an overwhelming numeric superiority, right?).
A consistent ally which ensures your eastern front and allows you to focus in your northern borders. I think shield could be an accurate word in this case.
Thank you for your understanding. All I want is for people to realize nothing is one sided in war and diplomacy and I dont like how people have decided to push me under the bus just to get rid of me politically. I wont go out like that.No one pushed you under the bus, you jumped in front of the bus and your mad we didn't run out there. The alliances made were for defense, not you escalate a war and we have to help you because you f'ed it up. But enough of that, it's long over, and it's thanksgiving so I am with Bael on wondering where that homemade pumpkin pie is. Have a happy thanksgiving everyone!
It's all true.
also, Aurvandil, please be a doll and attack *after* Thanksgiving :P
As it turns out, Aurvandil is surprisingly easy to screw into ruin just by war declarations which is the state we're currently in internally, we have the best army on Dwilight and quite arguably the game, but out enemies found a way to make that irrelevant.
And I rather like having Barca on our border, it's like having a desert, it's easy to ignore. Which suits Aurvandil just fine, so long as Barca doesn't make us notice them, we won't and we'll leave them be.
In fact, were the Grand Duchy not determined to invade Falkirk we'd have to look to our east, the Falkirkian's have an declared hatred of Monarchy and that makes them natural enemies to Aurvandil, they especially hate the Aurvandilan form of rulership, which is especially juxtaposed to their own Kommandantry. Really, Falkirk and Aurvandil at opposite ends on a lot of things.
And your argument of our wealth and power makes it impossible for us to be victimised in anyway is just silly.
... and it's thanksgiving so I am with Bael on wondering where that homemade pumpkin pie is. Have a happy thanksgiving everyone!I'm not promising it will be any good, mind you. Despite all the turkeys I've cooked, this is my first pumpkin pie from scratch.
I can't imagine a non-violent way to make "the best army on Dwilight and quite arguably the game". Maybe with roleplay such as that one about a lady being raped, and beaten?
Did I say anything to make you think Barca is in my opinion a dangerous opponent to Aurvandil? I think you were complaining about the relations between Barca and the Zuma Coalition.
Maybe the information about the diplomatic relations in the game should be renewed, according what you say.
Please, if you entertain us with some endless posts, read at least the replies. My "argument" was a sceptic comment about that way Aurvandil feels apparently upset constantly by some "voluble" politics. I didn't mean to make you feel like victims of your power and wealth, I was asking you to not show yourselves like such victims.
Such a shame Aurvandil is ruled by an Englishman, eh?
Better than having a frog run it into the ground ;)
Not quite sure what you're trying to say there.
No, we're just annoyed at being played in politics.
Sorry, I didn't write correctly. I can't imagine a non-violent way to screw into ruin by war declarations "the best army on Dwilight and quite arguably the game". Maybe with roleplay such as that one about a lady being raped and beaten? Anyway, you should be able to put order at home with a bunch of nobles while you take some others to raid other regions.
Woah. The Dev Team has to be licking tropical frogs if they allowed a "rogue non-state" to summon some nasty demons to try to dictate Your Majesty what he can or can't do! Well, at least for that period maybe you could feel something similar to some other realms in Dwilight ;D Anyway I was talking about your Falkirkian affairs. A pitty, though; you seemed such a nice couple...
Big boys tricked by the Moot? The world is going crazy... Problem solved anyway, right?
We're worse than that.
We're Englishmen pretending to be French.
It's a GM who runs the Zuma, not a Dev as far as I am aware.
War protests, brought Aurvandil to its knees in a day. We had to take the entire time since the Provincia's founding to now just to stabilise, and even then we've just lost another two regions to revolt. And Aurvandil doesn't really do raids, it goes against the way we conduct war. We march with as fuller force as possible and look to fight the enemy in battle. We rarely march without the full panoply of our four armies arrayed and rarely with the intent for anything but victory against the enemy in battle. We seek the glory of battle more than we seek the path to victory. And when we do defeat our enemies, we never sack or raid, the only time we have done that was the destruction of Madina, otherwise as with regions like Rettleville we wiped out all fortifications, take the gold and leave.
I didn't know that, my fault.
Very honourable indeed. But well, maths sometimes help anyway. Looking to fight the enemy in battle in a proportion of 1200 to 250 like the recent battle in Paisland is quite a detail; a huge victory, but a lot of glory on that? Anyway, if you have a huge army and panoply, it would be silly not to use it. But I can understand why you take so long to bring back normality to your revolted lands if you don't like to set battle in a proportion inferior to 5 - 1.
"How to invade lands", page 34, paragraph 2: "If you want to set a Provincia di Fiorenza in enemy territory, don't burn raid it after blowing them away" ;D I'm just kidding.
I am aware of the issues in that. Though not so long ago Terran was heading an allied army of 40,000 C.S.
Well to be fair to D'Hara, I think your complaints and experiences were with a different administration ruling D'Hara, I never had any problems with the old Administrations under Gornak and Machiavel (If you discount the whole... war declaring thing, but that's bridge under the water [Edit: Water under the bridge >. >]).
And D'Hara have been a bit too impetuous and tried to bite of too much, it's why others realm have realised not to trust the word of D'Hara because there isn't "anything true whatsoever" in their dealings, as it was put to Mendicant. As I keep saying, people have sort of noticed their attempts to play both sides of the war and then pander to the neutrals and it hasn't done them any favours. The good name of D'Hara is pretty much gone.
Thank you for your understanding. All I want is for people to realize nothing is one sided in war and diplomacy and I dont like how people have decided to push me under the bus just to get rid of me politically. I wont go out like that.
Those should have been good times. I wonder why didn't they head south.
You have to understand why Lord Brackern is a little "stubborn" about this matter. Basically you're offering him some kind of consolation candy. By allowing him to decide the size of the belligerent armies you think you are giving an honourable chance to Barca to finish this war. If Barca loses, I assume you would theoretically stop the hostilities (I guess setting some favourable to Aurvandil neutrality rules, like those we've seen in the D'Haran case), and wouldn't try to invade our lands.
If Barca wins, would you sign and respect the "Treaty for expansion to unclaimed lands"? I don't think so. And by your strength you've acquired the right to change your mind whenever you want, and create exceptions to the rules set.
There's no honourable solution for Barca in this offer. Accepting means to be seen as a defeated and impotent nation pledged to the game of Aurvandil. Not accepting means to face what would probably be the invasion and maybe the destruction of all that Barcan nobles have constructed. It could be seen as an easy choice, but please don't talk about honour.
By the way you speak I would say your character is King Mendicant. It's been a nice conversation, NoblesseChevaleresque. It's late, so maybe we read each other tomorrow.
Regards.
You imagine agreements were made when nothing was agreed upon. D'Hara feels no obligation whatsoever to uphold something that was proposed but never agreed upon. As none should. I'd say Glaumring had the same problem.
If the "good name of D'Hara" is gone, that's quite fine with D'Harans, because they don't care about what Aurvandil thinks of them anymore. Our pride could only stand so much of Mendicant's condescendance.
You say D'Hara threw you under the bus, but Machiavel NEVER stated that he would help you in any way should you attack Kabrinskia and Astrum.
As Lychaon guessed, we were too concerned about Luria Nova, and the Lurias in general. You just incorrectly assumed that you could pull D'Hara into a war you'd start. We'd have liked to fight against Kabrinskia, had we not considered it suicide, but we never would have went along against Astrum anyways. And I have no idea what gave you the impression we would.
Interestingly enough our alliance was forged to protect you from Kabrinskian aggression. When it came down to it, right or wrong. You both decided to throw an ally under the bus. Instead we could have stood as one and been stronger now than anytime ever. Shortsighted policies , shortsighted strategy. Asylon went above and beyond the call of duty to take the brunt of the attacks and fight a war both of you combined couldnt even muster an ounce of loyalty, bravery and balls to fight against.Yes, we are still talking about this because your thick skull can't understand it. Throw you under a bus implies we got you in trouble with the realms you warred. You started it by your aggression and if we had helped you the moot would be in worse condition than we are now. We would have no SA help and we would have been attacked from Aurvandil while warring them as your war ended while we were fighting which would have meant we would have been screwed. Maybe the war somehow helped your realm even though you are still recovering from it but it sure wouldn't have helped the moot and quit blaming us for the war you extended to a much more extreme way than we ever wanted.
Jesus... Are we still talking about this...
Interestingly enough our alliance was forged to protect you from Kabrinskian aggression. When it came down to it, right or wrong. You both decided to throw an ally under the bus. Instead we could have stood as one and been stronger now than anytime ever. Shortsighted policies , shortsighted strategy. Asylon went above and beyond the call of duty to take the brunt of the attacks and fight a war both of you combined couldnt even muster an ounce of loyalty, bravery and balls to fight against.
Jesus... Are we still talking about this...
Damn, that pumpkin pie was good!I knew you should have gave directions, maybe next year lol.
Sure, we could have begun a huge war with SA, and gotten backstabbed by the Lurias and Aurvandil. We'd be in such a GREAT position right now. You are right, we totally should have declared war on Astrum. What on earth were we thinking?
Interesting you say that when Mendicant said to Machiavel he'd support you unconditionally against the Luria's and S.A. exactly during the time when Asylon was war with Kabrinskia.
You should have declared war, Barca would probably never have been invaded by Aurvandil (As we would have been supporting you) and D'Hara would have been saved from its massive collapse from famine with its markets open to Aurvandil during the longest winter.
Right, because Aurvandil could TOTALLY have prevented foreign armies from hitting us...
Or, lemme think a second... No, absolutely not. Too many realms in reach of D'Hara, offering ourselves as meat shields would be suicide.
It's an interesting idea, but I doubt it would have worked. The logistics are just all wrong for that kind of thing.
Oh you mean Aurvandil with its 35kcs mobile army and D'Hara with its four cities, one stronghold and two townslands, all of them with fortifications, plus the D'Haran army. Oh yeah, it would have been impossible to make a competent defence of D'Hara.
And we wouldn't need to defend you if we marched are our armies to war against your enemies, besides which, as you even said yourself realms would think twice about picking a fight with D'Hara so long as the strongest military on the continent was willing to defend them.
Well, if D'Hara cannot even raise a competent defence of a large number of fortifications with a quite vast wealth, with large amounts of allied support, then they deserve to fall quite simply.
Quite the contrary. Siding with you would have put huge bulleyes on our heads.
35k CS, sure... needs to refit every now and then. The north can strike through Port Raviel, though Port Nebel, and through the East. The Lurias can also strike through the east and Port Nebel. Sea routes couldn't be scouted over, we had spies. They could have easily stricken the least defended city, and started a TO to deny walls before a defense can be organized.
Not to mention that both Aurvandil and Asylon seem to have made the mistake of believing that because we were anti-allison, we were anti-SA, or that because we were anti-hegemony, we were anti-SA.
If you, even for a moment, thought that Machiavel wanted to see SA defeated, you were making yourself quite colorful delusions. Aurvandil hegemony would be a million times worse: at least SA doesn't have robotic activity, unnaturally large resources and armies, hive-like behavior, and pompous heterogeneity.
We can deal with SA without being SA ourselves, the only ones who got whacked by them deserved it. When one of them attacked without the others, it was isolated and defeated. I've got no problem dealing with this.
You'e just mistakenly viewed D'Haran anti-hegemonism as anti-SA, when the reality is far from that. Bunch of our nobles are SA, and we are quite happy to have them.
Much of our wealth was because we really didn't spend much of armed forces. If we had to buy food AND pay for troops, we wouldn't have been nearly as rich as we were. Heck, just the food alone bankrupted us a few times.
And you don't seem to realize that these sea routes allow for easy travel, while also granting a "border" that enables TOs. Sure, TOs are possible almost everywhere now, but there's no landing penalty with these sea routes. Focusing their forces while our allies would be refitting would have allowed them to strike at us quite easily. And if they hit Port Nebel by surprise, win a battle, then they could have started a TO, denied us of our walls, and cut our realm in half, preventing us from travelling from one side to the other. Effectively dooming the whole realm.
D'Hara could have been wiped off many times in the past, had people put their heads to it, and without all that much effort. The removal of the sea routes will remove this great weakness, even the current set-up kinda screws up the infrastructures to be built for the Paisly-Raviel connection.
Asylon isn't nor wasn't anti-SA. We were anti Kabrinskian aggression and we knew/thought that once it started Astrum would back them up. So, remember when I told Terran/Vellos not to start a war with Kabrinskia? Yeah... He started the war... Remember I was one telling you both to tone down the anti-SA rhetoric and not turn the war into a holy war? Yeah... That was Asylon. I'm sure you forgot that part. I was in SA until I left it near the end of the war mainly because I felt that it was time for me to move on and do something else for a while. I had already ran kingdoms into the ground, why not a religion?
The annoying thing was how many times I told Vellos not to attack Kabrinskia and what does he do?
The annoying part was us forging a secret alliance that would have been actuated if Kabrinskia came to attack you.
The annoying part is Kabrinskia calling in the Zuma and Asylon telling Vellos that we would sign a false peace with Kabrinskia and not abandon Terran to fight the Zuma alone. We were regrouping our troops and believed the Zuma would attack Terran so we surpise attacked Kabrinskia and found out the Zuma were merely passing by. During that little lull I remember the 26k Terran troops being decimated by 11k Kabrinskian troops...face palm.
The annoying part is that the entire time the war was going on I had Aurvandiils support for the northern campaign and Vellos couldn't bear to side with Mendicant. I remember D'hara was all on board for Aurvandiil but couldn't bear to tell fat head Vellos to stop being arrogant and dumb and let Aurvandiil ship troops through D'Hara.
I was piecing together one of the largest alliances Dwilight had ever seen and both of you failed big time. You are puppets and paupers. Once Aurvandiil found that the alliance with the Moot wasn't going to work they went and attacked Barca... Basically Vellos and Chenier brought this entirely on themselves. All because of short-sighted wishy washy shifty blindness...
I grew up playing AXIS&ALLIES, RISK, Battletech and a myriad of other strategy games... foo, im like a walking tactician gangster old school mofo...ya'll don wan mess wit da glam yo
Asylon isn't nor wasn't anti-SA. We were anti Kabrinskian aggression and we knew/thought that once it started Astrum would back them up. So, remember when I told Terran/Vellos not to start a war with Kabrinskia? Yeah... He started the war... Remember I was one telling you both to tone down the anti-SA rhetoric and not turn the war into a holy war? Yeah... That was Asylon. I'm sure you forgot that part. I was in SA until I left it near the end of the war mainly because I felt that it was time for me to move on and do something else for a while. I had already ran kingdoms into the ground, why not a religion?
The annoying thing was how many times I told Vellos not to attack Kabrinskia and what does he do?
The annoying part was us forging a secret alliance that would have been actuated if Kabrinskia came to attack you.
The annoying part is Kabrinskia calling in the Zuma and Asylon telling Vellos that we would sign a false peace with Kabrinskia and not abandon Terran to fight the Zuma alone. We were regrouping our troops and believed the Zuma would attack Terran so we surpise attacked Kabrinskia and found out the Zuma were merely passing by. During that little lull I remember the 26k Terran troops being decimated by 11k Kabrinskian troops...face palm.
The annoying part is that the entire time the war was going on I had Aurvandiils support for the northern campaign and Vellos couldn't bear to side with Mendicant. I remember D'hara was all on board for Aurvandiil but couldn't bear to tell fat head Vellos to stop being arrogant and dumb and let Aurvandiil ship troops through D'Hara.
I was piecing together one of the largest alliances Dwilight had ever seen and both of you failed big time. You are puppets and paupers. Once Aurvandiil found that the alliance with the Moot wasn't going to work they went and attacked Barca... Basically Vellos and Chenier brought this entirely on themselves. All because of short-sighted wishy washy shifty blindness...
I grew up playing AXIS&ALLIES, RISK, Battletech and a myriad of other strategy games... foo, im like a walking tactician gangster old school mofo...ya'll don wan mess wit da glam yo
So you planned on a permanent existence of pointlessness? You exist because you trade to feed yourselves, and you exist so you can trade. Too afraid of war or losing territory or your wealth, your vast collection of cities your biggest restraint and weakness. What is the point in having land and wealth if you're just going to sit in peace perpetually out of fear of losing it? And of course, you're quick to argue how impossible it would be to attack the north, but you wasted no time at all in attacking the south, and still managed a decent defence against the Lurian's when they did invade.
I never assumed that at all, you did however imply you were that ways inclined when you commented on how you would much rather see Aurvandil fight to defeat S.A. than fight some one else and asked Aurvandil for a defensive alliance in regards to the threat from the north and the east.
Lol well I'm not sure what world you live in, but S.A. does have unnaturally large resources and armies, considering they own more than half a continent, the largest continent in the game as well. But no, I'm sure Aurvandil with its modest income and economy is far, far larger in resources than S.A. could hope to be. Aurvandil doesn't have hive like behaviour, and if you were the least bit clued in you would know that by now, nor do we have robotic activity, considering how much we fail to move competently right before your very eyes, which we even showed in the battle of Paisland this turn, and the previous campaign against Terran. But as ever, you like to tout and already disproved lie to try and make some sort of a veiled accusation against us. If we had robotic activity, would our regions revolt for lack of lords work? No. Would our regions starve because lords forget to transfer food? No. If we had robotic activity would we frequently have to make as much as four turn movements before a battle just so every moves in time? No. I could go on, but I'm sure the fact of the matter isn't actually relevant as far as careless remarks go.
And I am sure you believe that, it's convenient to convince yourself they deserved it so you can turn a blind eye to the excesses of the church and feel as though you have done nothing wrong. (This is all in regards to IC, not OOC in case you think this is a remark upon yourself and not your character).
No, we assumed your anti-hegemony-ism was actually that, opposed to hegemonies on principle. Evidently not, you just like to declare your enemies hegemonies on no basis whatsoever, such as you do to Aurvandil, whilst looking at real hegemonies and going "Oh, they're pretty all right actually, I mean they mass war anyone who so much as looks at them with a squint in midday sun, but still".
My comment on your wealth was in regards to sheer gross income you must have from four cities and two townslands, all the cities being the wealth of Candiels or higher, and the Townslands not exactly shabby either. Under a competent economic administration you should have a vast treasury stored up, like S.A. does, though obviously nowhere near as large.
I am perfectly aware of how powerful these new sea routes are, considering the enemies of Aurvandil managed to bring south armies from every realm in the north in what appeared to be a weeks worth of travel when it should have taken far, far longer and at much greater equipment damage.
But yes, I would have much rather marched north to fight alongside Asylon then get caught up in what is actually a quite pointless war against the Veinsormoot, I'm still not entirely sure why we're even fighting other than they didn't want to sign peace when it was offered.
So you planned on a permanent existence of pointlessness? You exist because you trade to feed yourselves, and you exist so you can trade. Too afraid of war or losing territory or your wealth, your vast collection of cities your biggest restraint and weakness. What is the point in having land and wealth if you're just going to sit in peace perpetually out of fear of losing it?
It's pointless to live a Donald Trump-like existence? To travel the continent, seeking food and conversation? We worked hard to settle these wild lands, fighting off monsters and undead. We earned it, and then we worked to keep what we have, and we're going to keep it all.
D'Hara didn't want war with anyone. It did everything it could to avoid war with Kabrinskia, same with Aurvandil. Except that Aurvandil forced our hand by attacking a federated ally, putting the Treaty of the Maroccidens into play. Something Kabrinskia had not done.
You assume we are shortsighted, because you confuse your own objectives and ambitions for ours. Having a behemoth on our doorstep may be in Asylon's best interests, it certainly isn't in the 'moot's.
You assume all realms should be the same, and that war is the only possible venture in this game. BM would be rather bland if everyone acted the same way, and sought the same thing. That if you want something done, you have to do it yourself.
D'Hara's vulnerability, combined with its great wealth, is precisely why I settled up there in the first place. And why I'm so attached to it. D'Hara is forced to spend a great deal of attention to its diplomacy, as well as to its food management. No other realm has to bother as much as D'Hara. For many people, that'd be a total bore. However, some of us actually enjoy this. Makes things quite different from the other continents.
As for attacking the South, we were treaty-bound to do so. And as predicted, getting involved in a war blew up with the Lurians backstabbing us. As we always feared they would should we send troops abroad. However, we did not attack "the South". We attacked Aurvandil, who is limited to a small chunk of the South-West. Even if Falkirk had joined in, they'd still be attacking via the same city. It's nowhere as comparable as risking invasions from a ton of realms over a bunch of sea routes. As for the Lurias, I'm still amazed at how they failed to kill us. Perhaps they overestimated us. I don't know. From what I've seen since my return, their performance is considerably sub-par for the resources they have. Whereas Aurvandil manages a whole lot with very little, they manage very little with a whole lot. We shouldn't have stood a chance against average performance on their part.
See Aurvandil fight SA, sure. To defeat Kabrinskia, at the time, sure. Despite your forces, we'd never have expected you to be able to conquer SA. We wouldn't have seen it as desirable had we thought you capable of it, either. We've made a bunch of defensive alliances in the past with a bunch of people. Pretty amazing how, until the Treaty of the Maroccidens forced us to defend Barca, every time our partners decided to go launch a war on their own, for some reason expecting our support in their suicide campaign.
SA owns half the continent and nobles, or roughly so. It's NORMAL that they get this income and armies. Aurvandil owns a bunch of rurals with a tiny city, and they somehow had the largest armies a bunch of times in history.
You seem to think your movement rates are bad... I question how many realms you've played in. In a bunch I've played in, or observed, you'd need twice as long to get half the movement rates.
You are obviously out of touch with SA. Heck, OOC, I'm rather impressed SA got so big. Kudos to them. They could have done things a lot differently to stifle fun. They haven't. Quite the contrary.
There are four major powers on the continent: SA, Luria, the 'moot, and Aurvandil. SA doesn't threaten us with total destruction. Only Aurvandil and Luria does. If Aurvandil hadn't been so hell-bent on picking on Barca, it could have remained a power in its corner. SA didn't really care enough for you guys at the start, neither did we, neither did the Lurias. You had world-grade armies, a bloc on your own. There was a kind of balance. All of the blocs could pose a serious threat to the other in some way or another. But if any one of the bloc annexes another... then everything changes. SA saw this: if you annexed the 'moot, they'd be in great trouble. The Lurias now see this as well. The 'moot would have reacted the same had you threatened to annex another bloc. Being anti-hegemonies isn't about raging against the big players, it's about trying to keep all of the foreign blocs at about the same strength, so that if any of them betrays you, you only need to rely on one of the other blocs to defeat them.
We did have a ton of gold on hand. I personally gave over 10 000 gold to Gornak when I left for my honeymoon. No idea how all that gold was spent, though, I wasn't there. I'm kind of surprised we didn't do any better with these funds... And I know many others had significant wealth as well. You are correct on this point, though.
All you had to do was not attack Barca. The unthinkable!
Exactly. Mendicant proved that he had no understanding of D'Hara whatsoever, when he proposed the creation of a realm in Paisly as a BOON for us that we should be grateful for.
Aurvandil may live to fight, but that doesn't mean everyone else does. Or that if they do want to fight, it's to somehow prove something.
You assume that to accomplish something, you need to do it yourself.
Friends and wealth allows one to do much without ever doing it yourself. Our dependence on others isn't a weakness, it's our greatest strength.
If we had been self-dependent in terms of food, we'd likely have been an isolationist realm, and one day the Lurias would have invaded us and nobody would have given a crap. Isolationism isn't a viable long-term strategy.
but that's like capturing someone and telling them "Tell you what, we'll just cut off your left arm, and then we can be friends. You are right-handed, so it's not like you really NEED that arm anyways. It's just more dead weight you carry around!"
I don't make other people do things for me, when I can do them myself. To many people spend ages in Battlemaster waiting for some one else to make something happen, and it rarely comes about.
+1!!
I don't make other people do things for me, when I can do them myself. To many people spend ages in Battlemaster waiting for some one else to make something happen, and it rarely comes about.
It's mediocrity, nothing else.
That depends on what you hope to achieve, but I assume you mean to survive indefinitely. I don't know, to an extent I think Aurvandilan style isolationism may have the edge, with our backs against a wall of our choosing always at war or on the verge of war, it breeds a strong, unified realm and a well disciplined army, and Aurvandil has at least shown our military power gives us relative impunity to just about any given coalition in Dwilight. Though, it's not quite applicable to D'Hara in its current form, you'd need to drastically change your realm composition and geography rather than just being sprawled out across the central south.
Well, I offered friendship without the terms and D'Hara wasn't interested. Evidently I had to cut of an arm so D'Hara would learn to appreciate the other and realise their position.
Aurvandil is actually a lot of fun to play in. I feel like it is battlemaster's rome, or atleast could be. Our need for efficiency and infantry heavy armies certainly lean towards that. The rest of Dwilight is our Carthage. As a people most of the characters are pretty cool, some are just log in and play every day types, but a lot aren't and will voice their opinions and I feel more informed about world politics than in any other realm i play in and that was even as a knight. I've actually challenged Mendicant IC on a few things and he seems to consider your ideas even if you are just a lowly knight.
Our military society is hardly boring it's just, as you say, not for everyone.
Aurvandil is actually a lot of fun to play in. I feel like it is battlemaster's rome, or atleast could be. Our need for efficiency and infantry heavy armies certainly lean towards that. The rest of Dwilight is our Carthage. As a people most of the characters are pretty cool, some are just log in and play every day types, but a lot aren't and will voice their opinions and I feel more informed about world politics than in any other realm i play in and that was even as a knight. I've actually challenged Mendicant IC on a few things and he seems to consider your ideas even if you are just a lowly knight.
Our military society is hardly boring it's just, as you say, not for everyone.
Nice comparison, but I think you aim a little too high. Maybe currently the Moot is comparable with Carthage facing an Aurvandil that look for ridiculous reasons to bully military inferior nations. The rest of Dwilight... well, that should be seen. Maybe some Lurian or Morekian should take this challenge ;D Just a little curiosity, in the days of the Punic Wars, Rome was a Republic, not an absolute monarchy. But yes, as Rome did, Aurvandil likes to dictate politics to other realms.
Of course playing in Aurvandil is not for everyone. Starting this game currently in Aurvandil is just for those who like to have guarantees of victory before signing in. If you're not that kind of guy maybe you consider other options.
You say that like you have any control in Lurian politics. You don't. You only hear that LN might attack Aurvandil. They may or they may not. With the levels of military organization they've shown, barca would be a mighty enemy for them.
It'd free up D'Hara, regardless of whether LN attacks or not. And even if they declare war but scarcely send armies, that again more war protests hurting Aurvandil.Plus, if they timed their attacks, they could wreak havoc on Aurvandil while they are off fighting up north. A two front war is much harder regardless of the second fronts military strength.
Aurvandil is actually a lot of fun to play in. I feel like it is battlemaster's rome, or atleast could be. Our need for efficiency and infantry heavy armies certainly lean towards that. The rest of Dwilight is our Carthage. As a people most of the characters are pretty cool, some are just log in and play every day types, but a lot aren't and will voice their opinions and I feel more informed about world politics than in any other realm i play in and that was even as a knight. I've actually challenged Mendicant IC on a few things and he seems to consider your ideas even if you are just a lowly knight.
Our military society is hardly boring it's just, as you say, not for everyone.
As soon as Luria Nova defeats Luria Vesperi, things will get harder for Aurvandil...
You show the Provincia as a masterpiece of successful politics, but even for me, that haven't been in this game for long yet, there're some incongruities.
I think basically if you didn't set that garrison is whether you needed to effectively to lose it to justify a funny massive offensive over the Veinsormoot, or you just thought that you established so nicely your neutrality conditions that everyone would shut up and applause.
The first reason could fit with the aggressive ropleplaying you've played towards some other players, with the "raped and beaten noble Florence" matter. This is quite a glimpse of those Roman politics that some of you think accurate to Aurvandil. But it doesn't too much when you like to use words such as "honour" in your language very often.
It shouldn't bother you so much to hear complaints if you decide to invade a region which revolted from another realm to set a colony which could be a direct menace to its neighbours. If Barca had your military strength and would take over Celtiberia when you lost control over it (many times recently), would you just shut up? Moreover, I'm not sure but I think you did just like that with this region some time ago, didn't you?
I have faith that the Veinsormoot will stand long enough to avoid the destruction you're planning. Luckily enough, maybe the Astroists could decide to put down Aurvandilian ambitions a little bit, or maybe Luria has something to say as Chénier wrote. You never now, but in such a game like this, with no winning formulae, a good period for a realm probably finishes one way or another.
Lady Florence roleplayed the whole, almost raped stuff, to Mendicant and a few others and it happened to fit quite nicely.
having 181/400 of the nobles on dwilight at war with us is all the challenge I like thank you! we don't need to put another 50 on top of that lolMaybe think about that last point Indirik said
It is fine to roleplay that your character is almost raped. It is not okay to say that another character incited the rape, without their permission.
http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/RP_Primer (http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/RP_Primer)
7. Roleplaying your Character
Don't RP other peoples' characters for them. This is a form of "powerplaying" and happens when, for example, you RP something with a serious effect on another character without their permission. If you are going to hit another noble over the head, steal his purse, sleep with his wife, or otherwise do anything that has more than a passing consequence, either get their permission, or have the game back you up (i.e. if you've just won a duel, then you can certainly RP winning the duel, but you should still work out the specifics of how the duel went with the other player). For example, even if I've just won a duel, I'm not going to RP that the other noble was an awful swordsman and didn't stand a chance unless I've cleared it with his player first.
Indeed, I find Aurvandilian roleplays to be extremely distasteful.
How would you like that I RPed that her guards raped me when I was emprisonned? Or that your troops are raping children in Paisland to help the TO? Because if you keep up that !@#$ty roleplaying, I'm going to start doing that.
The more intense the conflict thus becomes, doesn't make that the game much more fun?
The more intense the conflict thus becomes, doesn't make that the game much more fun?
Indeed, I find Aurvandilian roleplays to be extremely distasteful.
How would you like that I RPed that her guards raped me when I was emprisonned? Or that your troops are raping children in Paisland to help the TO? Because if you keep up that !@#$ty roleplaying, I'm going to start doing that.
IMO, if you stir up a peasant mob, I don't see too much wrong with the other person doing some impromptu RP with how that mob acts. It is, after all, a peasant mob. Just because you started the mob doesn't mean you control each and every single one of the thousands of peasants in it. The mob getting a little out of control, and committing wanton acts of violence, is a risk you take when dealing with mobs.
If someone RPd that you had actually sent them out to commit rape on purpose, then that might be crossing the line.
She Did Have Her Guards Rape You In Prison.
As far as I am aware, it was declared an attempted rape. And when you get an angry mob of fanatical peasants trying violently to drag a woman from her home, well it's rather safe to assume it would escalate to sexual violence and her being beaten to death.
This is an example of how somebody RP two someone else's characters. In this case, it seems for a different reason from adding flavour or fun to the game, as it's intended to humiliate someone else's character.
If Chénier finds distasteful the roleplaying that you and other players have played, I guess it's because he doesn't feel identified with all the raping thing, and didn't roleplayed that the mob were trying to rape Florence.
I think we shouldn't use that kind of RP. Maybe we could think that a medieval angry mob would have raped or beaten a lady. But you can't make just a simulation feature of a game in which many other players should enjoy. Every player should avoid that kind of RP, whether it's related to a character, or just the peasants in the game, with raped children and that sort of things. We can just assume there's another kind of interesting RP apart from this, rather than justify it at all cost.
One thing is rivalry among players, let's try to think more often OOC and not humiliate rivals.
Bad Sportsmanship is trying to enforce a policy of tongue in cheek never being able to even allude to something bad about another persons character. Good Sportsmanship by contrast, is being able to take it in your stride when some one does it to you and to find a way I.C. to get back at them rather than trying to act offended over something that doesn't require self aggrandising "offence".
She Did Have Her Guards Rape You In Prison.
Well, according to your comment, if somebody doesn't like another player's RP, reply with a more aggressive RP. If everybody agrees, problem solved. Maybe you're true and everybody enjoys the opposite of a "tongue in the cheek" RP.
I had a full roleplayed love affair with Indirik... I just wanted to get that off my chest...
Astrum now has the highest CS in Dwilight's history... :o Probably highest anywhere...
Also, you say D'hara defended the rape of Florence but that's a complete and utter lie, D'hara defended Machiavel's religious takeover and that's a big difference.
As far as I am aware, it was declared an attempted rape. And when you get an angry mob of fanatical peasants trying violently to drag a woman from her home, well it's rather safe to assume it would escalate to sexual violence and her being beaten to death.
Now I'm jealous. What does Paul have to do to get some of that hot, hot old man ass?Wear Glaumring's leopard print thong.
I had a full roleplayed love affair with Indirik... I just wanted to get that off my chest...
Now I'm jealous. What does Paul have to do to get some of that hot, hot old man ass?
Wear Glaumring's leopard print thong.
Its not leopard print! How dare you roleplay my thing for me... Everyone knows my thong is cheetah print!
Is there one? I must have missed it.
So ladies and gentleman. What are your thoughts on the new Aurvandilan offensive?
Here I was thinking their plan was to let us take Paisly to take it right back...
They didn't even dare attack the small garrison there. My duchy is secured. XD
So ladies and gentleman. What are your thoughts on the new Aurvandilan offensive?
you presume to know Aurvandilan military strategy. we lull you into a false sense of security then POW right in the kisser. By that i mean we will soon become the niecest realm on dwilight. flowers and daisies and suchI must say I was surprised at your attack. It could have been defended, but I think of all of those of Terran that were south, went to Paisly, and all there were somewhat trapped. I expected an invasion of D'hara, not Terran. Good move.
I must say I was surprised at your attack. It could have been defended, but I think of all of those of Terran that were south, went to Paisly, and all there were somewhat trapped. I expected an invasion of D'hara, not Terran. Good move.
Meh, I still say their goal was to sack Paisly, and then we scared them away.
We were dancing gangnam style, which totally threw them off their game and made them run elsewhere.I knew there was something off about you D'Harans.
We were dancing gangnam style, which totally threw them off their game and made them run elsewhere.
Not sure. Darfix or Gias Kay Lee (that's right—Darfix and GiasK, like the cities) developed the map. It's an awesome coincidence if not intentional.
FYI - it's an awesome coincidence.hahaha, yeah....
We would have sacked Paisly, but to be fair that would have validated the defence Terran and D'Hara raised, and if you're happy to bottle yourself up in Paisly whilst we hem you in through a force defending the Motte and Bailey of Paisland, go for it. If Aurvandil's armies had been in better shape we would have sacked Chateau Saffalore (Chesney was a bit too well defended I think to warrant the attack) and actually done some damage to Terran, as ultimately D'Hara is the weaker link of the two and the easiest to strike, so one we can do at our leisure, whilst we actually need to weaken Terran to reach a strategic goal in the war.
Of course our armies were much too limp this campaign to do much of anything, but it has at least wasted the time of our opponents and frustrated their defences, a minor victory.
Sure, absolutely. You totally weren't afraid of the defense, you just didn't want to "validate it". Of course.
Just as we just saw laughing at your invasion force. We just didn't move out because we didn't care to "validate it" either.
The difference is Chénier, I was being serious without need of idle boast and self complimenting auto fellatio as opposed to your passive aggressive sarcasm.
We knew it would annoy you more to just ignore your defence of Paisly entirely, as you seemed so set in the belief Aurvandil valued Paisly enough to warrant an attack regardless of the situation. We had you bottled in Paisly, which allowed us to raid Terran whilst you were too impotent to do anything about it, even as a combined army, we even forced Terran to return home by sea rather than land. It was a perfect strategic position for us, why bother attacking a low priority target like Paisly? Instead of securing Paisland and raiding Terran, to the shame of the allied forces in Paisly? Besides which, an attack on Paisly would have worked well for Aurvandil, as I recall you barely had any infantry on the walls, so once the Chevaliers reached the walls it would be an easy fight.
Quite simply we saw the effort you were putting into the defence of Paisly and considered it a great jest to circumvent it and render it quite irrelevant by not validating it with an assault. You don't value the stratagem behind it, you trapped yourself in Paisly whilst we held Paisland stopping you from leaving, then looted Terran at our leisure and left when we felt like it, leaving your combined army redundant for the entire campaign. Which, to us was both strategically sound (We trapped you in your own region and made you irrelevant for an entire campaign) and amusing (Thwarting your efforts and mocking them by trapping you in your own defence) and to an extent, it was done to antagonise D'Hara over their attack on the Provincia, it was almost a declaration of "We aren't even mad that you destroyed it, we'll recreate it when it pleases us not when you think we should" and as an extension, Aurvandil doesn't like to be predictable, and it would have been predictable to lay a siege any observer could have foretold weeks in advance.
You should remember, Mendicant likes to amuse himself with jests particularly in war, and Aurvandil likes to be unexpected and do something to the ire of their opponents, and of course, we feel perfectly secure in our current position to do this kind of thing, after everything we feel that we can drag this war out as long as we like though the longevity of this war thus far has been due to the impotence of our armies to bring a swift conclusion and Mendicant's diplomacy to secure peace. That said, another thing is, Aurvandil doesn't know why it fights, we fight because we can't get peace, but we don't particularly fight for any objective, but because we have to otherwise our enemies will take liberty of absence in battle, so our quite bipolar military policy in the war reflects that. We are an army that fights because we don't know how to get peace, which is no way to fight.
But you can chant it off as an amazing victorious campaign if you wish.
The difference is Chénier, I was being serious without need of idle boast and self complimenting auto fellatio as opposed to your passive aggressive sarcasm.
We knew it would annoy you more to just ignore your defence of Paisly entirely, as you seemed so set in the belief Aurvandil valued Paisly enough to warrant an attack regardless of the situation. We had you bottled in Paisly, which allowed us to raid Terran whilst you were too impotent to do anything about it, even as a combined army, we even forced Terran to return home by sea rather than land. It was a perfect strategic position for us, why bother attacking a low priority target like Paisly? Instead of securing Paisland and raiding Terran, to the shame of the allied forces in Paisly? Besides which, an attack on Paisly would have worked well for Aurvandil, as I recall you barely had any infantry on the walls, so once the Chevaliers reached the walls it would be an easy fight.
Quite simply we saw the effort you were putting into the defence of Paisly and considered it a great jest to circumvent it and render it quite irrelevant by not validating it with an assault. You don't value the stratagem behind it, you trapped yourself in Paisly whilst we held Paisland stopping you from leaving, then looted Terran at our leisure and left when we felt like it, leaving your combined army redundant for the entire campaign. Which, to us was both strategically sound (We trapped you in your own region and made you irrelevant for an entire campaign) and amusing (Thwarting your efforts and mocking them by trapping you in your own defence) and to an extent, it was done to antagonise D'Hara over their attack on the Provincia, it was almost a declaration of "We aren't even mad that you destroyed it, we'll recreate it when it pleases us not when you think we should" and as an extension, Aurvandil doesn't like to be predictable, and it would have been predictable to lay a siege any observer could have foretold weeks in advance.
You should remember, Mendicant likes to amuse himself with jests particularly in war, and Aurvandil likes to be unexpected and do something to the ire of their opponents, and of course, we feel perfectly secure in our current position to do this kind of thing, after everything we feel that we can drag this war out as long as we like though the longevity of this war thus far has been due to the impotence of our armies to bring a swift conclusion and Mendicant's diplomacy to secure peace. That said, another thing is, Aurvandil doesn't know why it fights, we fight because we can't get peace, but we don't particularly fight for any objective, but because we have to otherwise our enemies will take liberty of absence in battle, so our quite bipolar military policy in the war reflects that. We are an army that fights because we don't know how to get peace, which is no way to fight.
You could get peace by stepping down, renouncing your whole culture, converting to an extant religion, executing your current council, and swearing to become a republic.
Cheers!
You forgot ceding stolen lands back to Barca
I'm pretty sure you guys claimed that would NEVER happen, despite Madina's ample warnings.
Why don't you guys go back to begging SA to march down with their glorious army and fight your war for you.
Why don't you guys go back to begging SA to march down with their glorious army and fight your war for you.
I'm pretty sure you guys claimed that would NEVER happen, despite Madina's ample warnings.
Meh, many people are happy that Madina got destroyed.
haha i geuss, that still doesn't change the fact that Barca was very very naive to trust Aurvendil 'n support them.
I laughed hard when i heard of Aurvendil attacking them.
Wouldn't mind seeing a new Madina now, just felt like they had to suffer a little.
Indeed, perhaps we shoulda destroyed Aurvandil,
Raid Terran? You were too weak to strike any of their cities, and were eventually forced to retreat without any significant damage. Secure Paisland? You've already lost it. Antagonize D'Hara? We've killed the squatters and retaken our city, eliminated your flag from our old lands.
But you can chant it off as an amazing victorious campaign if you wish.
You could get peace by stepping down, renouncing your whole culture, converting to an extant religion, executing your current council, and swearing to become a republic.
Cheers!
You forgot ceding stolen lands back to Barca, plus an extra as compensation, and a quarterly tribute.
All of that together would start appearing as reasonable.
Indeed, perhaps we shoulda destroyed Aurvandil, and then Madina ourselves.
Wouldn't mind seeing a new Madina now, just felt like they had to suffer a little.
All of that was previously offered, and it was refused in favour of war, so you know.
You had your chance and you turned your nose up at the offer.
Do you mean that you offered Barca to give back Gallaecia, Kydonia and Celtiberia? I'd like to know a little bit more about that as I find it something less than probable. I won't even mention the quarterly tribute... (seriously you offered it too?) I don't know why but I guess there's something missing here, I resist the idea of the nobles of Aurvandil returning Barca these regions.
C'mon, even the "Grandiose et Magnifique Institution pour la Création des Cartographies Aurvandiliennes" had artistically painted its domain comprising these regions! ::)
Do you mean that you offered Barca to give back Gallaecia, Kydonia and Celtiberia? I'd like to know a little bit more about that as I find it something less than probable. I won't even mention the quarterly tribute... (seriously you offered it too?) I don't know why but I guess there's something missing here, I resist the idea of the nobles of Aurvandil returning Barca these regions.
C'mon, even the "Grandiose et Magnifique Institution pour la Création des Cartographies Aurvandiliennes" had artistically painted its domain comprising these regions! ::)
He offered to return them, as I recall, provided that Barca made unspecified and vague internal changes: he refused to give any suggestions about what such changes would be. They were widely interpreted in the Moot as being reform to a monarchy, abandonment of the Moot, and special legal relationships with Aurvandi nobles and Aurvandil itself. When we tried to figure out if that was what Mendicant actually wanted, our perception was that he dodged the question.
He, the player, has asserted many times that we misunderstood what was going on. And that may be the case, he may be right; but our perception of it was that he wanted to make Barca a vassal state and disassemble the Moot. Whether our perception was "true" or not depends on which story you believe; and frankly both our stories have some big holes in them.
Oh well the return of the regions and the tribute was heavily implied when Mendicant made it clear he would give Barca whatever they wanted in reason to get a peace they're happy about and redresses the damage inflicted upon their regions and their honour in war. And Aurvandil loves to flaunt its gold and how better than by being generous to a poor third world realm like Barca? I know for certain Mendicant mentioned these specifically to one or two people, I can't remember who however. But it was considered that we insisted upon rebuilding their fortifications personally until we decided that would have been too patronising.
Yes, well we were happy to give up the regions in a way, to give them away is to deny their worth and to thus, extol the value of our own lands. That is until food production got changed and most of our regions became god awful producers of barely anything except for the northern marches (Gallaecia, Kydonia and Celtiberia).
And we had drawn those regions to the map, because it looked better geographically, it sort of... completed the peninsula if you look at it.
We never wanted Barca to become a monarchy, or leave the Moot and I'm sure Mendicant never even implied or suggested anything to give that impression. But I imagine peoples imaginations run wild in the Moot. What we wanted was for Barca to do something about the corruption in their Republic, and a corrupt republic has no right to become a Monarchy in Mendicant's eyes, it would sully Monarchism.
I considered asking Barca to become a vassal state, but we considered it to be an insult to Aurvandil. Aurvandil fights alone and needs no vassal states, anything less implies a weakness, to say we need a realm to support us is to imply we need help and that would shame us.
Dear... that really touched me. How in the world such altruistic and philanthropist person becomes an absolute monarch? That's indeed a great deed and explains the nature of your character's name. In fact, maybe you should call him Mendiant ("Beggar" in French) as it's clear you find virtue in spreading gold for "poor third world realms". Real world would be a better place if there would be more Aurvandils and Mendicants around. :P
So that means you... would have given them back or not? If your own regions were unable to feed the "Grandiose Armée", it would be inconvenient to return them to their original owners I guess. Was it the case? Hmm, it's curious how the worth of some regions can change so drastically. But I agree with you, the skilled Aurvandilian cartographers showed everyone in Dwilight a very interesting vision of its geography. How did you manage to teach them how to use Paint so nicely?
So, apart from the renewed value of the marches in the Mendicontinent, the other condition was for Barca to solve the corruption issues? And that is because... you dislike corruption wherever it comes up? Moreover, maybe to be completely accurate to your comment about vassals and self-sufficiency, we shouldn't see any green sign in Aurvandil diplomatic relations. Oh well, maybe you are in peace with other realms just to spread generosity all over Dwilight. ;D
So what was so corrupt about Barca? I have heard plenty of times from you that they are corrupt but never how they are corrupt. It's like if you were an employer and told an employee, "Look at all these problems with you. If you don't want to be fired you better fix them." They have no idea what is wrong them in your eyes and thus no way to fix whatever is supposedly wrong.
Which meant Barca could literally do anything they liked about it, aside from nothing.whats one thing they could have done?
It is the Royaliste Campagne de L'armée rather than the "Grandiose Armée" which I think should be Grande Armée anyway, and never ever ever IC call us "Aurvandilian" it won't go down well, at best we tolerate Aurvandilan, but we expect to be called Orvandeaux.
But it means, that whilst Mendicant said he was happy to hand them over, I was rather glad the Veinsormoot didn't make me live up to that obligation. It would have been... inconvenient.
Please excuse me if I rather to use (ever ever ever) "Aurvandilian" in this forum. I think you don't, but I like to write as a player rather than a character. I think you have used some much more disrespectful words to talk about the realm my character is from. Moreover, some other of your realm-mates compared Aurvandil with Rome, and Dwilight as its Carthague; I think you don't need another player to compare you with nothing less than the mighty army of Napoleon. You can do it yourself if you like. And as far as I know, "grandiose" is a correctly written French word. :D
What does "Royaliste Campagne de l'Armée" mean? Royal Campaign of the Army? Maybe I'm wrong, but "Armée Royaliste de Campagne" maybe fits better if you call that the army, rather than a certain campaign in a war.
Regarding the devolution of the regions, I think Aurvandilians found a candy that just came free. I find a little bit inconsistent the IC argument you used however. If you like to play Mendicant arrogant and disdainful towards anything out of the Mendicontinent, I'd expect him to just don't care about what a neighbour realm does with its government. You have called Barcans "the most servile people", "poor third world realm"... but some of them deserve your mercy if you can impose the changes you want in their politics.
About the bounty on Mendicant's head, I'm not sure but I think last time I saw it, there were about 900 gold coins on it. I'm sure it was a good amount, so I guess not just Barcans (if the first bounty was put by some of them) would like to see Mendicant's head on a silver bowl. It's not so bad, just another kind of notoriety that you like to feed as it seems.
In conclusion, I guess you could keep by force those regions, so you kept them. You did well, they resulted to be indispensable as your regions were "god awful producers of barely anything". Anyway a very important part in this game is about intrigue, propaganda, etc. so you invented an IC argument that could show Aurvandilians' power over another realm apart from military issues. That match with your taste for humiliation. Perfectly acceptable, but in my opinion even a little bit rude.
whats one thing they could have done?
Oh I don't know, scribbled on a piece of toast?So you wanted to have them do something so you could say you dealt with it, to your realm. Made that a bit more obvious and we wouldn't be in this situation though it is a fun one.
What does "Royaliste Campagne de l'Armée" mean? Royal Campaign of the Army? Maybe I'm wrong, but "Armée Royaliste de Campagne" maybe fits better if you call that the army, rather than a certain campaign in a war.
My french is rusty, but I believe campagne... means countryside. So your army there is called the Royal Countryside of the Army.
My french is rusty, but I believe campagne... means countryside. So your army there is called the Royal Countryside of the Army.
I forget, French isn't high up on my list of foreign languages I've made an attempt to learn. Which I should probably correct if I am imitating it in BM, though the use of French in Aurvandil is mostly to give a ... feel of Frenchiness rather than to be specifically accurate.
or maybe -> Gardes Impériaux de la Maison du Roi?
Something about corrupt dukes, electoral tyranny, unjust banishments and a Senatorial old guard hoarding power and offering gold for the death of rival politicians and lords in Barca that caused the northern marches to defect to Aurvandil, to seek sanctuary from the Barcan political system that tried to have them killed, banished and marginalised.
I told them what was wrong in Barca, and what I wanted changing, but left it up to them to decide how they wanted to do it. Suffice to say, they didn't think of anything and instead wasted Mendicant's time and then acted offended when we weren't pleased.
So you wanted to have them do something so you could say you dealt with it, to your realm. Made that a bit more obvious and we wouldn't be in this situation though it is a fun one.
It means "Royalist Campagne of the Army". Which, imo, means nothing. It's best to consider it as mock-French. Pretty much all of the "French" they use doesn't mean a thing, and even google translate would probably yield better French.
Yes. It means countryside. However, as countryside, it's a noun, not an adjective. Royalist means the same in English as in French. And as such, it makes no sense here.
If you're interested:
Cour Impériale De La Noblesse De Chevalerie -> More or less grammatical, although it's a weird construction.
Assemblée de Royal Sovereign l'armée du Haut -> Assemblée Royale Souveraine de l'Armée du Haut
Royaliste Campagne de L'armée -> Armée de Campagne Royaliste
Rois Propriétaire Gardes Impériaux -> I assume you mean "King's household"? The it would be Gardes Impériaux de la Chancellerie
Orvandeaux Battaillon Etrangere -> Bataillon Etranger d'Orvandeaux
Caraque de la sang -> Caraque du Sang or Caraque de Sang
Have not read all the details.
But I did see NoblesseChevalier claim he told Barca what was wrong.
That's either an outright OOC lie, or the Barcan characters are all exceptionally secretive. Consider the fact that, to this day, no member of the Moot has ever gone on record in any sense documenting having ever received any message from any authority in Aurvandil identifying a definition of "corruption" or any method to resolve it.
3 nobles with family histories very, very similar to many nobles in Aurvandil all show up in Barca. They all know each other. They never participate in realm politics except to make similar complaints about military matters. They demand to have their own army, and support each other in elections. They have pro-Aurvandil politics to a strangely high degree.
Mendicant then states that he will not return the regions or discipline the nobles involved because Barca is corrupt. When asked to specify the corruption, the only example he gives is that some nobles set bounties on other nobles (which is a pretty low bar for corruption in BM if you ask me). When asked what he proposes to be done about it, he offers no answer. When asked why he gives no answer, he states that Barca is beneath him. Why is Barca beneath him? Because he's the supreme sovereign or whatever.
And as supreme sovereign (Moot's internal reasoning here, which, when presented to Mendicant ICly, he took offense at and, instead of responding to the argument, quibbled over perceived effrontery), Mendicant redrew maps to redefine established geography to include those lands as part of his fundamentally sovereign lands. He had already announced the intention to form a realm in Madina (another monarchy).
Then, while the issue was growing, he shows up and crushes Barca with a giant army rather out of the blue, offending their republican institutions while he's at it. He continues to demand changes but won't say what. Meanwhile, he refuses to conduct collective negotiations with the Moot, and actively and concretely attempts to engineer separate peaces with different Moot realms.
In sum:
Our logic was clear. We see a monarch with a repeated pattern of expansionism and a worldview fundamentally incompatible with ours. We see rampant disrespect of claims and treaty law, the bedrocks of our system. We see a military force which knows no respect for diplomacy. We see obscure demands made and massive punishment when they are not met. We see a rhetoric of generosity combined with a massive display of force. We see active efforts which amount to the sowing of dissension among Moot realms.
In sum, it looks pretty darn like a massive plot to divide and conquer the Moot, replacing the Republican southwest with a Monarchist southwest (see: Provincia di Fiorenza). Maybe we were wrong– that's possible. I'm just saying that given the facts as they were, our logic was not faulty– it made quite a bit of sense (and, I think, still does).
Maybe our reasoning was wrong, that's entirely possible. But
If you're interested:
Cour Impériale De La Noblesse De Chevalerie -> More or less grammatical, although it's a weird construction.
Assemblée de Royal Sovereign l'armée du Haut -> Assemblée Royale Souveraine de l'Armée du Haut
Royaliste Campagne de L'armée -> Armée de Campagne Royaliste
Rois Propriétaire Gardes Impériaux -> I assume you mean "King's household"? The it would be Gardes Impériaux de la Chancellerie
Orvandeaux Battaillon Etrangere -> Bataillon Etranger d'Orvandeaux
Caraque de la sang -> Caraque du Sang or Caraque de Sang
For Rois Proprietaire, I got that of Wikipedia I think (Reputable as ever) and I think it's meant to be "King's Imperial Household Guard".
Yep, that works too.
Then there's the problem of deciding if you're an emperor or a king. It sounds like imperial guards are guarding the king, which would mean the king is a prisoner.....
One can dream! 8)
I think the Aurvandilian don't use French, they murder it!!! ;D
I find it quite strange that you guys put forward the effort to draw up new maps and come up with weird philosophical ideas and all that and not check over your obviously butchered French when that's what your realm's culture is identified as, apart from having the worst diplomacy in BM. Was there seriously not a single person in Aurv who took it in high school? I think Google translate would've done an infinitely better job.
I find it quite strange that you guys put forward the effort to draw up new maps and come up with weird philosophical ideas and all that and not check over your obviously butchered French when that's what your realm's culture is identified as, apart from having the worst diplomacy in BM. Was there seriously not a single person in Aurv who took it in high school? I think Google translate would've done an infinitely better job.
I'm sorry, but I think they WANT to butcher it. They don't want French, they want Mendifrench!!! ::)
...Another reason for the total annihilation of the Aurvandil realm! ;D
"Electoral tyranny"– which didn't exist and is a non sequitur to begin with
"Corrupt dukes"– wherein corruption consisted of, as I recall, not subsidizing the "Freikorps" army (oh and picking a nazi-associated army name in a game based in Germany was really unfortunate too)
"Unjust banishments"– you mean like for expressing loyalty to a different realm and threatening to secede (eventually doing so)
"Old guard hoarding power"– Welcome to Battlemaster
"Offering [bounties]"– You have a point on this, if it's true– and I gather some Barcans did in fact confess to this. But if they didn't actually confess, then you can't prove it– bounties are anonymous
Giving a list of words does not mean you told someone what was wrong.
And there's a fundamental contradiction in saying that you told them "what [you] wanted changing" and your earlier presumption of detached superiority and non-involvement. You can't have it both ways. Either you had an interventionist intent or you did not.
Not at all, it existed. The corruption of elections to enforce tyranny.
The corrupt dukes were hoarding land, colluding together to control the power and wealth of Barca to distribute it as they pleased and were forcing lords to comply and break their oaths under threat of punishment if they don't whilst being overly taxed as an attempt to force them.
I don't recall any expressions of loyalty to Aurvandil until after the threat to secede, and the threat to secede came when the threat of banishment was levied.
That may be the norm for most realms, but not Aurvandil, we aspire to more than letting an old guard hoard the power. I purposefully replace my old guard with new nobles when presented with the opportunity, and when suitable on an in character level. As Aurvandil makes an effort to ensure our old guard doesn't simply hold all the power, we take exception to those who do, it's bad governance in our eyes.
I'm not sure what you're on about there.
Oh gracious. Dukes were hoarding land. You don't say? They were distributing land as they pleased? Dukes were? Really? How corrupt! Imagine that, dukes distributing land as they pleased, and punishing lords when they break their oaths! How ghastly! And imagine dukes using taxes as a way to punish unruly or disruptive lords– that's unthinkable!
No, the Orvandeaux loyalism long predates the ban. Those nobles also favored not enforcing the Treaty of Evanburg as I recall (or, rather, simply complained a lot when it was going to be enforced). Threat to secede also preceded the banishment– though obviously the actual secession came after the banishment. It wouldn't make sense to get banished then THREATEN to secede. The whole in your story here is you've failed to explain why Barca acted the way it did– other than a presumption that they're just terrible, terrible people who like banning good people. But that just doesn't make sense.
Which is why your ruler and general are the same as when you were founded, and your main duke, city lord, and ruler are one person who never has to face elections.
Tell me again about your egalitarian society.
But in all seriousness– I agree that encouraging new players to get involved is important and good. Terran does lots of that as well (we routinely give brand new members lordships).
But to argue that a realm is corrupt and needs to be destroyed because its existing lords worked together to keep power (yet still gave multiple lordships to new players?) seems a bit silly. By that standard, every realm should be destroyed.
Then again, Aurvandil is at war with nearly every realm...
I was pointing out an inconsistency in the position you have articulated.
not to be confused with the Royal Purser who basically just fiddles with the granaries and does tax reports.
Oh that's me! I'd just like to point out that in about 3 weeks time I went from a knight to a vice marshal and banker. Advancement is easy if you're active
If you were truly accountable and responsible to the will of the people, then you'd have your ruler election monthly as well. Otherwise all this talk of egalitarian and "accountable to the people" is window dresing for your standard, run-of-the-mill monarchy.
Monarchy is the only true way to govern a kingdom! 8)
Monarchs are overrated. House of Lords ftw.
Monarchy is the only true way to govern a kingdom! 8)
Indeed, but... Fellow nobles, abandon those decadent chains of the Old Regime, your blood is worthy of each privilege you can earn with courage and tenacity! ;D
If Mendicant were elected, then he'd derive his power from populism and reduce the crown of the High Sovereign to a mere office filled by interchangeable self serving politicians looking to advance their careers, serving not out of duty, honour and for the betterment of the realm but because they see it as a career, a way to advance themselves.So, if the High Sovereign were elected monthly, then he would be a mere interchangeable, self-serving politician like your Knight Hausos, Lord Purser, and Arbiter of Justice. Those filthy career politicians.
The Knight Hausos is more than just a General, it is a very ceremonial position in Aurvandil, second to none in rank and honour and it has very, very select criteria on who can become the Knight Hauso. But at the same time, we hold elections for the Knight Hausos and we hold Allomere to account every month and our nobles grant their consent to his command each month in the elections.
As for the position of High Sovereign. It is run by rule by consent, whereby the High Sovereign is both answerable to the people, and accountable to their will, and the High Sovereign rules only so long as his people consents to his reign. Thus, ensuring that our ruler is not the most "popular" as you would get with elections, but he is the best and has the loyalty and consent of his people, nothing so trivial as temporary popularity in elections like you see in Republics.
I'm not going to make a detailed reply to Mendicant's points.
Not I say Mendicant, not noblessechevalier. I have a hard time believing that a modern human being actually believes that the argument he is made is logically consistent.
You don't actually think what you're saying makes sense and is true, do you? Like, it makes sense maybe from a late-Medieval perspective that basically ignored most of what we today recognize as fundamental human freedoms, and basic problems of political economy... but I get the impression you think what your saying is true on an OOC level. And that... really shocks me.
So, if the High Sovereign were elected monthly, then he would be a mere interchangeable, self-serving politician like your Knight Hausos, Lord Purser, and Arbiter of Justice. Those filthy career politicians.
Now, as far as the High Sovereign goes...
Oh look... the High Sovereign is accountable to the people, has to answer to the people, and rules by consent of the people. Kind of like the general, banker, and judge. Except that with no monthly/quarterly elections, there is no accountability/consent process. Mendicant has never been through the consent and accountability process that the rest of his government is subjected to on a regular basis.
So how do you explain that the monthly consent process does not turn your banker/judge/general into filthy career politicians, but it would with your ruler?
Hence my assertion that your consent and accountability are window dressing and/or double talk. If Mendicant really ruled by an accountability and consent process, he would be held accountable and receiving the consent on a regular basis, just like the rest of his government. But he isn't. He's the standard, garden-variety absolute ruler, just like pretty much every other monarch in the game.
True nobles live under monarchy. The rest are just Republican politicians, or sheep of the Gods under theocracy.Bull crap, every noble is a politician except in Aurvandil as claimed by Mendicant, which I wish I could participate in for a month, or a week, but my character at the moment would not join. I nearly said never but because of the way I role play my character in a long term, seen by few, manner it could perhaps happen eventually, but no time soon. OOC, not even talking about your military or gold maneuvering, Aurvandil is amazing due to its political system, which is that it does not exist.
Yes, well you give the impression you believe things such as elections truly safeguard the freedoms and civil liberties of the people, and in turn represents the people, which in this day and age for anyone to still believe such nonsense is shocking, as you would put it.
:o
erm...
Okay, yeah, I'm just gonna' drop the mic now and claim victory. You actually just claimed that dictatorship is a better safeguard of liberty than democracy, on an OOC level, not ICly at all. Methinks you need a history lesson– especially French history. You could learn the language and some historical truth all at once.
Bull crap, every noble is a politician except in Aurvandil as claimed by Mendicant, which I wish I could participate in for a month, or a week, but my character at the moment would not join. I nearly said never but because of the way I role play my character in a long term, seen by few, manner it could perhaps happen eventually, but no time soon. OOC, not even talking about your military or gold maneuvering, Aurvandil is amazing due to its political system, which is that it does not exist.
:o
erm...
Okay, yeah, I'm just gonna' drop the mic now and claim victory. You actually just claimed that dictatorship is a better safeguard of liberty than democracy, on an OOC level, not ICly at all. Methinks you need a history lesson– especially French history. You could learn the language and some historical truth all at once.
:o
erm...
Okay, yeah, I'm just gonna' drop the mic now and claim victory. You actually just claimed that dictatorship is a better safeguard of liberty than democracy, on an OOC level, not ICly at all. Methinks you need a history lesson– especially French history. You could learn the language and some historical truth all at once.
The problem is that most historical dictators have gone mad. Finding a consistantly sane one beats the problem
The problem is finding a successor that's just as good, should you truly have found the perfectly benevolent dictator.
I, for one, would love to see something happen to Mendicant, such as capture in battle, to see what happens with the rulership elections.
All that nonsense about elections is the double speak and propaganda I'm talking about. Not being allowed to announce or discuss your candidacy only serves to enshrine the old guard and existing power structure in place. You've guaranteed that the only people that will hold power are those who already have it. Which is perfect if the only thing you're interested in is ensuring that nothing changes. It's very convenient if one of your old guard happens to get kicked out via capture or wounds, and some outsider happens to get himself elected on a fluke. Just wait a couple weeks and elect him back into office. Gets rid of all that inconvenient placeholder/benchwarmer controversy.
The Eternal Treasury is kept and maintained by Sarit after all, the Royal Purser simply fills out the forms. The courts and the Communist Party decide verdicts and Kim Jong Un passes judgement, the Arbiter of Justice merely enforces the punishment and ruling he is told to enforce. They cannot be politicians in this system, nor can they serve themselves by being placed in these positions, they can only serve Kim Jong Un and the People's Republic of North Korea.
Here's a fun exersize -read through what Mendicant/NoblesseChevaleresque has to say, but replace "Aurvandil" with "North Korea" and "Mendicant" with "Kim Jong Un", and "Nobles" with "Communist Party".
The problem is finding a successor that's just as good, should you truly have found the perfectly benevolent dictator.
The problem is that most historical dictators have gone mad. Finding a consistantly sane one beats the problem
Here's a fun exersize -read through what Mendicant/NoblesseChevaleresque has to say, but replace "Aurvandil" with "North Korea" and "Mendicant" with "Kim Jong Un", and "Nobles" with "Communist Party".
:o
erm...
Okay, yeah, I'm just gonna' drop the mic now and claim victory. You actually just claimed that dictatorship is a better safeguard of liberty than democracy, on an OOC level, not ICly at all. Methinks you need a history lesson– especially French history. You could learn the language and some historical truth all at once.
did he mention dictatorship in that quote? I don't think so. I think what he meant to say is that constituents can almost never be truely and fairly represented in a democracy.
As I understand it, he was literally saying that a monarchy better represents the people than a representative democracy.more like noblesse chevalresque confirmed for 2edgy4u 20-something year old
I thought Aurvandil was interesting prior to this. Now knowing that their beliefs aren't just roleplayed, but like, are acted out in a delusional gratification of their perverse ideal real world... yeah not just a wee bit scary, closer to psychotic.
Rather my point.
Except he's advocating his position OOCly. Which has me simultaneously very amused and a wee bit concerned.
No, the problem is they fail. And they're morally wrong to begin with. It's fun in a game, just like playing god-mode is fun in a game. But leaving the game and talking like in-game systems make sense out-of-game is like turning off god-mode, walking outside, and trying to alter the weather. You've made two major errors: external validity bias and self-delusion.
Individuals are not by definition unable to be more just and moral than a group. The dictatorship of the majority isn't the most just way to go about, either.
I just think it tends to be easier to question the government when there are open elections. But then again, justice is not determined by the form by which a leader is chosen, but rather by the mechanics that protect justice and freedom in all levels of government, at all times.
I may favor democracy, but I also don't let myself be fooled that simply having a guy be elected makes him necessarily legitimate and just.
mmm... I think when you said just, you mean good? It's true Individuals are not by definition unable to be more just and moral than a group... but if you are trying to 'organize' the living of a group, it's only just they decide their own destiny... maybe not every time the better choice, but THEIR choice.
All democracies have problems, (as everything made by humans) but they can be solved by pacific ways. A dictator only can be 'solved' by his death... the fast way usually cost too much blood and the slow way too much sufferings and years.
In a democracy, people can be fooled to elect the 'wrong' guy? Give them education! The more educated the people are, the less able to be fooled, they will.
Someone can abuse of his position? Make efficient 'control' procedures. A good democratic government system is the one who every power is controlled by another.
In the democracies, the government election is not only the 'just way', It's the 'main' system of control. The people have the right and the duty to try to chose the better government possible for their country. If the people don't want (or can't) to do this, the democracy will crumble and an eager 'patriot/saviour' will take control.
But all of this is OOT... or we are discussing Aurvandill government?
This is empirically nonsense.
Democratic states are MORE likely to engage in long-term projects than less democratic states. Please do not extrapolate to all non-democratic states based on media presentations of China, or extrapolate to all democratic states based on media presentations of the US congress. Empirically speaking, infrastructural and long-term investments, controlling for geographical and economic factors and opportunity costs, are more frequent in democracies than more authoritarian states. So that argument is bunk.
Collective rule IS more just: always and everywhere. Because any rule which is not collective is of its very nature unjust. We can pretend otherwise for a video game– but in the real world, this is obvious. Rule by a king, or a general, or a politburo, is unjust.
Now, a dictator may carry out more just actions than some democracy might– that may be true. Empirically, it is unlikely: authoritarian states tend to offer fewer freedoms and liberties and be more prone to use violence against their people. The possibility of benevolent dictators is defeated by the fact of their non-existence.
Democracies are flawed, yes. Duh. But seriously people, this is showing a shocking amount of historical blindness: do I really hear educated people questioning whether democracy is good for us, whether we might not be better off not as democracies? Please tell me this is some kind of strange devil's advocate situation. Because that's just gross ignorance. Democracy is not promoted abroad by nearly every democratic state because it is so strategically advantageous or something. It's promoted abroad because even the most realpolitiking democratic states have realized that this system is so obviously better than to not promote it would be such an obvious travesty and crime against humanity as to constitute a national embarrassment before all of history. It's like walking into Botswana and going, "Nah man, AIDS ain't a problem."
Democratic states are MORE likely to engage in long-term projects than less democratic states. Please do not extrapolate to all non-democratic states based on media presentations of China, or extrapolate to all democratic states based on media presentations of the US congress. Empirically speaking, infrastructural and long-term investments, controlling for geographical and economic factors and opportunity costs, are more frequent in democracies than more authoritarian states. So that argument is bunk.
Bull crap, every noble is a politician except in Aurvandil as claimed by Mendicant, which I wish I could participate in for a month, or a week, but my character at the moment would not join. I nearly said never but because of the way I role play my character in a long term, seen by few, manner it could perhaps happen eventually, but no time soon. OOC, not even talking about your military or gold maneuvering, Aurvandil is amazing due to its political system, which is that it does not exist.
:o
erm...
Okay, yeah, I'm just gonna' drop the mic now and claim victory. You actually just claimed that dictatorship is a better safeguard of liberty than democracy, on an OOC level, not ICly at all. Methinks you need a history lesson– especially French history. You could learn the language and some historical truth all at once.
The problem is finding a successor that's just as good, should you truly have found the perfectly benevolent dictator.
I, for one, would love to see something happen to Mendicant, such as capture in battle, to see what happens with the rulership elections.
did he mention dictatorship in that quote? I don't think so. I think what he meant to say is that constituents can almost never be truely and fairly represented in a democracy.
As I understand it, he was literally saying that a monarchy better represents the people than a representative democracy.
I thought Aurvandil was interesting prior to this. Now knowing that their beliefs aren't just roleplayed, but like, are acted out in a delusional gratification of their perverse ideal real world... yeah not just a wee bit scary, closer to psychotic.
more like noblesse chevalresque confirmed for 2edgy4u 20-something year old
stopped responding to my letters so karibash has to come stab him personally. damn shame!
OOT.
But still. Give them education? Who chooses to? And when the trend is to make higher education more and more expensive and inaccessible to the lower and middle classes? When the people who decide what is taught are the ones with the most interests in lowering standards? To claim that problems in democracies can always be solved by pacific means and that problems in dictatorships can only be solved in a leader's death is a false dichotomy. Disregarding the fact that what sets one aside from the other is usually pretty arbitrary, dictators have passed down power without dying and democratically-elected leaders have used their armies against their own citizen.
I do wish for a society where everyone is better educated and officials fully accountable. Sadly, all you need to do is follow the opinion polls, the political news, and follow election campaigns and it's pretty clear that marketing has long replaced political science and philosophy and that most peoples votes will remain the same no matter what.
And since when was the world split between only two government systems, democracy and dictatorships? It's not as black and white as that, and yet you would go so far as to say I am the one who needs educating, despite the gross ignorance you've just displayed.
What I said, were that elections are not the best means by which a people are represented (short of perhaps, direct democracy). Of course some people immediately associate anything like that with tyranny and dictatorship, 'cause obviously the only form of freedom in this world comes at the end of a vote.
Mendicant can only be deposed through rebellion, protests, or the public removing their consent.And how would people "remove their consent"? Wouldn't someone else running and being elected equate to people removing their consent, and it being granted to someone else?
And how would people "remove their consent"? Wouldn't someone else running and being elected equate to people removing their consent, and it being granted to someone else?
Poliorketes, you ask how many democracies use violence? They all do. The armed forces and police forces have the monopoly of legitimate violence. I didn't say they went about shooting everyone. But that doesn't mean that the army is never used. Nor does it mean that there is no violence. Because there is PLENTY of violence in the streets by the forces of "order" against peaceful protesters. Physical violence, as well as moral and financial violence by the use of courts, injunctions, and fines against legitimate pacific protests. The latest in Québec were the students against the tuition fee hikes. Hikes they wouldn't even suffer themselves, the hikes being gradual and only truly affecting the students who will sign up in three years or so. They protest to safeguard accessible public higher education. A fundamental necessity to a healthy democracy (going to school until you are 16 doesn't make you a good citizen, it barely teaches you to count). And yet they are demonized by two of the bigger parties, including the last one in power.
*hint hint* remove mendincant lol IG... I mean lets just talk about it on the forums, cuz whats said here would never leak IG, and the last think we would want is for Aurvandiils nobles to *hint hint* RISE UP against Mendicant...
Then maybe force him to become a priest or something.
+1Breaks IRs though
*hint hint* remove mendincant lol IG... I mean lets just talk about it on the forums, cuz whats said here would never leak IG, and the last think we would want is for Aurvandiils nobles to *hint hint* RISE UP against Mendicant...Quit with the thinly veiled cheating accusations. Indirik is arguing Mendicant's logic of his consent concept for his rule.
Breaks IRs though
Was a joke. ;)I was merely pointing out it could never actually happen sadly, not that you would break IRs.
Mmmm... banker. Can you *feel* the power in your hands?
No offense to you here, but NobleWhatsit (sorry, can't remember the spelling) already told us that you're just a faceless functionary who exists simply to carry out his orders.
And I still want to know how the nobility is supposed to remove consent from Mendicant so they can put someone else in place. Since you're the banker of Aurvandil, and thus one of the top four most powerful nobles in the realm (which is odd, because you're just a functionary), perhaps you could explain the procedure for removing your consent for him to rule? Surely you must be aware of the criteria and/or procedure...
It is true for all realms that the majority of characters are essentially automatons with barely any say in what goes on. It is also true for all realms that older players (and players who know each other from IRC...) tend to reserve most power for themselves. If it is true for Aurvandil as well, then at least they are roleplaying it.Reserving power based on OOC things is Clanning which I will not blanket accuse all realms with let alone Aurvandil.
"Financial violence" is not violence. Violence means, like, guns and bayonets and broken bottles and stuff.
Politicians speaking harshly about their opponents and publicly badmouthing protestors is not violence.
Police brutality is violence. But now we have to, again, recognize a slippery slope fallacy when we see one. Because democracies sometimes exercise violence, especially when other means are exhausted, in a generally constrained fashion does not make them categorically identical to, say, Syria's present regime, or Egypt, Tunisia, or Libya's former regimes. It just isn't the same. And to assert that those phenomena can even be discussed with the same words is to denigrate and demean the struggles of thousands of dead people fighting for rights, while inappropriately elevating the status of people who are already residents of some of the richest, most peaceful, most entitled, most powerful nations in the world.
I'm not saying, "Because there's someone worse off, you can't complain." I'm saying, "You can't complain with the same words."
Since democracies exist?... if you want, we can call them democracies and non-democratic governments? ... A democracy is like a contract, you try respect it or you break it... some, but not too many greys in the middle.
mmm... yes? Obviously, the vote isn’t enough, but for sure (until reading minds are tested and approved) is a needed steep for a democratic government... 'freedom' is a wonderful word, but it mean something distinct for every person, so, in the end, it don't have any real meaning.
I'm curious, if elections aren't the best way to represent people... what it's? and how it works?
And how would people "remove their consent"? Wouldn't someone else running and being elected equate to people removing their consent, and it being granted to someone else?
Well, yes, I see that he said that. But the whole system doesn't make sense. IMO it does the exact opposite of what he claims. It creates an exclusive old guard that is the only one that can ever win elections. Denying anyone else the opportunity to even run in an election is the most blatant example of it. How do people "remove consent"? Do 10 people have to stand up and say "go away mendicant"? 20? 30?
You say it maintains the old guard, but I just got elected as banker. As for the position of general if people WANTED to see allomere gone they would vote in a new general. Probably the marshal of the imperial guard, but allomere wins battles so they don't.
Mmmm... banker. Can you *feel* the power in your hands?
No offense to you here, but NobleWhatsit (sorry, can't remember the spelling) already told us that you're just a faceless functionary who exists simply to carry out his orders.
And I still want to know how the nobility is supposed to remove consent from Mendicant so they can put someone else in place. Since you're the banker of Aurvandil, and thus one of the top four most powerful nobles in the realm (which is odd, because you're just a functionary), perhaps you could explain the procedure for removing your consent for him to rule? Surely you must be aware of the criteria and/or procedure...
Personally, I don't want Mendicant removed. Hireshmont want to compel his debasement and force gross indignities upon him. Then maybe force him to become a priest or something.
I do not really understand a few things regarding the Aurvandil government.
Some positions are elected. These positions are limited to civil service. People can not campaign or any of that. Candidates should be voted for based on perceived performance. All makes sense so far. Here is the confusing part: Who is allowed to run for a position? At one point it sounded as if no one aside for the incumbent was allowed to run which breaks the whole system.
The ruler is elected once. They rule at the consent of the people and for the people. Or some such. Without a regular vote, I can imagine only two ways to withdraw consent. Refuse to follow the orders of the government or try to rebel against and overthrow the government. Both sound like they would be treasonous acts. As was asked before, how then, can the people remove consent and oust the ruler?
Woohoo! Can't wait to see those battle reports rolling in!
Even if my character is a priest and can't fight, I can still llive vicariously through the battles of others. :P
Barca are thus the bravest and most honourable of the Veinsormoot, whilst being the smallest, poorest and weakest, and that is worthy of respect.Thank you. ::) I always considered ourselves such, haha.
Thank you. ::) I always considered ourselves such, haha.
And the last time we were in Gallaecia, we had hoped to do a little more than sitting around.
Oh, did you arrive in Barca? I didn't even notice! :P
That would explain those huge multicolour feather headdresses poking out among Rettlewood forests... and the cries of the people robbed and their possessions looted, of course.
And Barca is such, your defiance is much greater than that of your allies.
I imagine you wanted to run a take over to give you access to Evanburg, realised you didn't have enough men and contented yourselves on the granaries of Gallaecia before just wandering off again, we wouldn't have known you had been there at all if it wasn't for the infiltrator getting caught.
We didn't loot their possessions, we set them on fire, as it turns out the people of Rettlewood have very little.
Was the Barcan noble you caught an infiltrator? So that's why she was tortured without a word from your butchers...
I would be appreciative of those words, but since you put them in the same topic that your triumphal vision setting peasants on fire, I think I'm not. And yes, the full Gallaecian attemp was as almost as you describe, but our troops carried lunch with them, so they didn't have to touch Aurvandilian grain.
I guess it's true our peasants haven't got much of worth, your comrades and you are dedicating intensively to find some souvenir to take to your wives. I wouldn't like to know what you do to the enemies whose valour you don't recognize... ::)
And what we do to enemies whose valour and honour we find lacking, we "Madina" them, so named after what we did to Madina City. It wasn't pretty.
Non-physical violence is a universally accepted concept. A quick search on the internet yields this as the most-cited definition: Violence is "the intentional use of physical force or power, threatened or actual, against oneself, another person, or against a group or community, that either results in or has a high likelihood of resulting in injury, death, psychological harm, maldevelopment, or deprivation." If fines are used to intimidate and to financially cripple protesters (an anti-strike law was voted in, threatening tens of thousands of dollars in fines), I call it violence. If the police arbitrarily detain people for no motive whatsoever other than a political symbol that was worn, I call it unconstitutional political profiling and violence. If the police charges into a group of peaceful protesters in full armor to surround a group of protesters for hours without letting them leave, I call it violence.
I never mentioned Libya or Syria, nor Egypt and Tunesia. I never said our armies shoot into crowds to kill them. I'm just refusing to accept the dichotomy that it's either really really bad, or really really good. Our forces of order do shoot into peaceful crowds for political purposes. They just use less-lethal weapons, so the death rate is much lower. People still die, however, or lose their eyes, or get broken bones. It still happens. If it were the nutjobs attacking full-armored riot police with bricks, then I'd kinda understand. Usually, it's just people who were there in the wrong place at the wrong time. Often, they weren't even protesters. We cannot let our politicians use foreign tyrants as smoke guards to the problems of justice, legitimacy, and freedom in our own electoral systems. We must compare ourselves to the best, not the worst. And the way I see it, we have a LOT of work to do before we can call what we have a just and free government system. The existence of worse doesn't justify this, no matter its spread. "The systematic use of violence to create a general climate of fear in a population and thereby to bring about a particular political objective" is not limited to the Arab countries. State terrorism is done by some western democracies as well. And I am seriously concerned as to what it will evolve into. There is no excuse for systematically causing fear as a weapon against a political movement. The fines were so systematic that I was afraid to exercise my constitutional rights and join the peaceful protests. Employees who showed their support for the cause were systematically threatened.
Maybe they weren't shot and buried in some mass grave somewhere. Sure. But our democracy is still sick. The government still terrorizes its own citizen and robs them to enrich their own political parties and the firms that finance them. Corruption is here too.
There are people who argue the same thing in the U.S. You know what we do to them? Ignore them, because they tend to be the conspiracy theorist crackpots.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Governor_General_of_Canada
Great democracy there. :P
To get this thread back on topic, before I askew it again by replying to people.
Aurvandil has launched it's attack.
This'll be a interesting campaign. The war has entered a strange phase– there are lots of things that MIGHT happen, but we'll see how things turn out.
You have indeed invaded Rettlewood; we'll see how far that gets you.
One thing you don't realise is that Rettlewood isn't protected by the Zuma. I spoke with Haktoo extensively and it turns out the treaty Barca made was exceptionally flawed and gave me great extent to prosecute war on Barca without incurring her wrath. Barca got cocky and ballsed up the treaty in their haste.
Assuming that is what you hope will happen.
Why not just kill Zuma along with Barca?
Yea. If the 'moot is so unworthy go bash the Zuma to show everyone your real strength.
Go Aurvandil! Go Aurvandil! Kill the Zuma! Go Aurvandil!
So the unworthy moot can stab Aurvandil in the back? Better to remove the moot first
The Barcans, and the moot as a whole, would be doing better if there was more communication. I have never once received a letter from a Barcan, and I am a full member of the guild for the moot. I think they hear our messages, but we never hear a reply from them, at least not as far as I know.
Truth.
They usually tell us what's going on down there... after it actually happens.
The Barcans, and the moot as a whole, would be doing better if there was more communication. I have never once received a letter from a Barcan, and I am a full member of the guild for the moot. I think they hear our messages, but we never hear a reply from them, at least not as far as I know.
You sound exactly like I did in dealings with Barca...
"Barca may be a sonofabitch, but it's our sonofabitch, dammit!"
Aurvandil can't do anything till the Veinsormoot decide they want peace.
And when I was dealing with Barca as well, suffice to say Barca don't make for good compatriots or partners
"Barca may be a sonofabitch, but it's our sonofabitch, dammit!"
That's very kind of you guys... ;)
No matter how old or big or strong Barca may one day grow to be, I think both Terran and D'Hara will always view themselves as its parents. Maybe not in a patronizing way, but at least in a protective way.
Oh Barca, the red headed stepchild of southern Dwilight... The Tiny Tim of the Marociddens.
And a historical, "Yes this is actually the truth" kind of way.
And it WILL grow to be large and powerful one day. We'll make sure of that.
Sure would help if they had more nobles, though...
I guess that means that Aurvandilians will keep on raiding Barca until their allies decide to pact. In such a different way, I think Aurvandil wouldn't make for good compatriots or partners. But that should be decided by Terran and D'Hara, which I think don't need any propaganda to do so.
I'd have liked also to see sometimes more communication in Barca, but none of us should see it from a IC point of view. I just know an isolated case, but probably many of our realm-mates can't dedicate themselves as they'd like to the game. And with a slight amount of players in our realm, it affects a lot to its development. Honestly, I think it's as simple as that.
That's very kind of you guys... ;)
Quite the substantial boast when both Terran and D'Hara are weak (Terran less so), you are only strong in your needless defiance, but it seems defiance alone isn't getting you any closer to beating Aurvandil.
D'Hara has regained pretty much all of its lands, despite ongoing wars.
I'd say we are doing just fine.
Oh Barca, the red headed stepchild of southern Dwilight... The Tiny Tim of the Marociddens.
Quite the substantial boast when both Terran and D'Hara are weak (Terran less so), you are only strong in your needless defiance, but it seems defiance alone isn't getting you any closer to beating Aurvandil. We're pretty used to being bored to death in war Madina were quite good at it, but it only brought them just over a year of war till they finally succumbed. I suppose we'll have to do the same with the Veinsormoot as they seem to believe in the virtue of war for wars sake.
We only raid Barca when they give us reason to do so, you attacked Gallaecia and the Provincia, so we loot Rettleville. That and it's good at provoking the Veinsormoot, since they retreat and hide behind walls every time we march north. If they won't bother to war us, we may as well preserve our forces, bring Aurvandil back up to the full strength we had at the start of the war and then zerg rush the Moot to ruin.
Yes, well that isn't saying much when you have had months to do so by and large unopposed unless you count one Lurian incursion and the Provincia, with massive allied aid.
You're doing "fine", well you haven't advanced your war aims whatsoever, the most damage done to Aurvandil was by war protests and you have yet to win a single battle against us. If you call that doing fine, I question what you would consider doing badly. Because I consider Aurvandil to be performing awfully, and yet we've actually achieved much from our strength, and its only by our refusal to press our advantage early on when you were all starving to misery that the war is so static at the moment.
Yes, well that isn't saying much when you have had months to do so by and large unopposed unless you count one Lurian incursion and the Provincia, with massive allied aid.
You're doing "fine", well you haven't advanced your war aims whatsoever, the most damage done to Aurvandil was by war protests and you have yet to win a single battle against us. If you call that doing fine, I question what you would consider doing badly. Because I consider Aurvandil to be performing awfully, and yet we've actually achieved much from our strength, and its only by our refusal to press our advantage early on when you were all starving to misery that the war is so static at the moment.
Methinks, as in the diplomatic issues Aurvandil had earlier, you still don't understand the larger strategy of this war.
In Battlemaster, it is quite far from impossible to lose almost every battle and yet have crushing victory in war. And we certainly haven't lost every battle, as the CS charts make clear.
D'Hara isn't actually at war with you... And you assume our priorities are the same as yours. Yet I think it has been pretty clearly demonstrated that we don't operate the same way at all. Because from where we stand, Aurvandil hasn't achieved much of anything. D'Hara was crippled by starvation, Barca by a sneak attack.
We don't even need to loot you, your regions revolt on their own. And nowadays your tax rates are much closer to what would otherwise be considered normal.
Nah, we've been involved on two fronts against two behemoths, and we barely lost any ground in the East while we regained a ton of land in the West. Ya, I'd say we did just fine.
No I understand the strategy well enough, and I am dismissive of it, you can use war protests and dog pile enemies on me as much as you like whilst trying to drum up support for wars against the Freestate which you still seem to believe are controlled by Aurvandil (Despite the fact I haven't sent my armies over to Madina Fissoa city so Falkirk can scourge the D'Haran isle, which is what I would have done if I had the power to command Lex). At some point, you will have to come south and fight Aurvandil, infiltrators, priests and war coding will only get you so far.
And well, what battle have you won? Swatting the Provincia doesn't count.
1. We don't have to come south. Maybe we will, but that's far from necessary. Again, you really don't get the strategy at work here, or even our objectives. But I'll leave that to IC.
2. We won the last campaign pretty solidly. Again, look at the CS chart. In fact, the whole history of the war has been one of Terran displaying a faster and bigger recovery after each campaign than Aurvandil. Maybe ya'll will turn that around this time, wouldn't surprise me, but thus far you've managed to "win" battles but lose every fighting season.
The Moot has seen uninhibited growth since the Long Winter, but Aurvandil continues to struggle.
Celtiberia counts. :P
1. We don't have to come south. Maybe we will, but that's far from necessary. Again, you really don't get the strategy at work here, or even our objectives. But I'll leave that to IC.
2. We won the last campaign pretty solidly. Again, look at the CS chart. In fact, the whole history of the war has been one of Terran displaying a faster and bigger recovery after each campaign than Aurvandil. Maybe ya'll will turn that around this time, wouldn't surprise me, but thus far you've managed to "win" battles but lose every fighting season.
The Moot has seen uninhibited growth since the Long Winter, but Aurvandil continues to struggle.
Lost Celtiberia, regained Evanburg. A fair trade.
You recover yes, but to what end? You don't march your armies, you don't fight. Aurvandil only weakens itself by marching to fight you, so what happens when we refuse? What happens when we keep the armies in our barracks, hoard our gold and prepare ourselves for a protracted siege of the Commonwealth. As you will recall, Aurvandil can reach 60,000 C.S. when we are given the time to do so.
So, either Aurvandil weakens itself in marching to fight you and wasting soldiers on campaigns, and you "recover" or we keep our forces at home, build them up to strength and then you are forced to march against us, and who then will be in the better position?
I am sure this is just the opening moves of your strategy no doubt, whilst Aurvandil wastes its strength and you bide your time however.
Well, it's not like we'd just burn our energy in this duel on swiping at you unless we were prepared for the consequences of such expenditure. I would like to see what your next move is, we only attack you because you won't attack us, after all.
You really only think about this one way, don't you? It's all about stacking up CS so you can march in and capture a city and show'em who's boss?
Why on earth should that be the Moot's goal? What do we possibly gain by sacking Candiels?
Aurvandil should just destroy the Moot and get this over with.
Zaki cheers for Aurvandil
Oh God. You are actually trying to just be a minor inconvenience aren't you.
That is just cruel.
Actually, we are diehard Mendicant loyalists, ensuring you always have an external foe around which to unite your people.
That's even why we mock you on the forum: to supply Aurvandil's players a sense of OOC solidarity.
But what would Aurvandil stand to gain?
A vast and sprawling empire? They'd set to fighting each other if it came to that. Victory over the Moot would leave Aurvandil without nearby enemies. Maybe they'd go long-distance against Astroism, or go fight Fissoa– but that wouldn't seem in keeping with their prodigious honor.
No, they'd eat each other.
Neither side really stands to gain more than a few rurals at best, in terms of raw conquest.
Actually, we are diehard Mendicant loyalists, ensuring you always have an external foe around which to unite your people.
That's even why we mock you on the forum: to supply Aurvandil's players a sense of OOC solidarity.
A cruel fate!
Aurvandil can never implode if we're forced to exert ourselves outwards, how sinister of you.
Oh, the Moot is nothing if not sinister. It's why we have handled the war so... un-dextrously.
1. We don't have to come south. Maybe we will, but that's far from necessary. Again, you really don't get the strategy at work here, or even our objectives. But I'll leave that to IC.
2. We won the last campaign pretty solidly. Again, look at the CS chart. In fact, the whole history of the war has been one of Terran displaying a faster and bigger recovery after each campaign than Aurvandil. Maybe ya'll will turn that around this time, wouldn't surprise me, but thus far you've managed to "win" battles but lose every fighting season.
The Moot has seen uninhibited growth since the Long Winter, but Aurvandil continues to struggle.
No, they'd eat each other.
Neither side really stands to gain more than a few rurals at best, in terms of raw conquest.
I shudder to think what you could come up with if you tried with both hands.
Only on the battlemaster forums will people say that charts matter more than actually victories. just FYI the greatest deal of our loses were from starvation in taking Celtiberia (because my army doesn't listen to me -.-)
I think we would more likely become a libero and just be boring. the dukes are to pro-aurvandil to even think of revolting.
We stand to gain the honour of defeating the corrupt republics that are cheap facsimiles of true and righteous government. Oh! and oranges. WE SHALL HAVE YOUR ORANGES!
Which war also demonstrates that casualties and soldiers lost in battle don't matter: your ability to replace losses is what matters.
You're doing "fine", well you haven't advanced your war aims whatsoever, the most damage done to Aurvandil was by war protests and you have yet to win a single battle against us.
The Union was never losing, only at risk of losing. The odds were on their side the whole time.
Not true for WW1 and definitely not true for WW2. If soldiers ever lacked for weapons it was due to logistical problems in getting the weapons to them NOT because they didn't have enough weapons to begin with.
USSR had superior manufacturing capabilities as well major support from USA. They also had superior numbers and as the war progressed the technological edge of either powers' armaments swung back and forth, always in contention. One thing that remained stable though is that German engineering tended towards more extravagant weaponry and that's what's earned them the myth that they totally had the Soviets outclassed techwise. Soviet weaponry for it's part was robust, easy to repair and easy to manufacture.
The T-34 was more capable (leaving out the lack of radio equipment) than most of the panzers employed by the germans, barring the Tiger, until the introduction of the Panther and King Tiger. Then, as it was with the western allies, sheer weight of numbers told.
If you consider a tank that can't travel capable. In June 1941 half a CORP was lost on the way to Dubno, not to enemy fire, but to wear and tear.
And respect the mechanical problems... all the new tanks had them, see the Panthers in Kursk!!!
Yeah, the Aurvandi armored column sweeping through the jungles of Barca is really proving to be a problem. I hope they don't suffer mechanical problems when monsoon season begins.
Yeah Aurvandil has secret factory that produces King Tigers 24/7 that are awaiting to be deployed, they just need to pass mechanical tests and they are good to go.
Panzers*
No, Panthers is correct. The Panther was introduced just before that battle, but had severe mechanical problems. I do believe the Panther is part of the Panzer line of tanks.
You have something to this effect several times now; your amazement at the 'Moot not attacking Aurvandil, at the 'Moot "hiding behind walls" all the time, and not having the honor to come out and fight Aurvandil, all the while Aurvandil has been just so "forced" to come attack the 'Moot.
....is it finally dawning on you yet that that is because Aurvandil is the aggressor in this war and the 'Moot is on defense just like we have all been saying since Day 1? Because, yeah, that's generally how things go when a stronger, militaristic realm attacks some weaker, peaceful realms: the stronger realm launches attacks against the smaller realms who hide behind walls because they are, you know, weaker... and, you know, defending.
---
In other news.... Aurvandil is back to calling Barca uncivilized... their General declaring Barca the "Farmer Republic" needing to be put in their place.
Barca is a backwater, its hardly the essense of ostentatious wealth and culture of Dwilight, hell its nobles barely no how to talk, perhaps even language is rare there.
Asylon isnt even civilized, its a poor backwater , but at least it has its own culture.
I wouldnt roleplay Barca anything more than a passsable city of mud and farm animals, dirty, uncouth its nobles wrapped in animal furs a war torn land struggling to be a republic under the watchful eye of the Zuma. Its a frontier kingdom that never rose beyond that.
Barca is a backwater, its hardly the essense of ostentatious wealth and culture of Dwilight, hell its nobles barely no how to talk, perhaps even language is rare there.
Asylon isnt even civilized, its a poor backwater , but at least it has its own culture.
I wouldnt roleplay Barca anything more than a passsable city of mud and farm animals, dirty, uncouth its nobles wrapped in animal furs a war torn land struggling to be a republic under the watchful eye of the Zuma. Its a frontier kingdom that never rose beyond that.
I wouldnt roleplay Barca anything more than a passsable city of mud and farm animals, dirty, uncouth its nobles wrapped in animal furs a war torn land struggling to be a republic under the watchful eye of the Zuma. Its a frontier kingdom that never rose beyond that.
I think we can all agree that the language Barcans use is quite more understandable than that rather orthopedic and artificial slang that their southern neighbours imported to the lands they inhabit. Glaumring, have you had any comprehension issue when talking to a Barcan noble?
Your talk reminds very much of our pal Noblesse. Honestly, things like that remind me of those little monkeys dancing the tune of their master's accordion. Noblesse's tune isn't so cool that we need that little dance, in fact, it's sometimes quite repetitive. What surprises me is to hear all that Zuma thing when Aurvandilian hordes adorned in feathers have been up to mischief until they were bored, with no uncomfortable visit from them in their recent visit to Barca.
I guess Glaumring has had a very close relation to Barcan people to be so judgemental, if that wouldn't the case I'd think he's just a blabbermouth. Since I don't know anything about Asylonian background, I'll remain quiet about it. And whether you don't seem to have a good opinion of Barcans, Asylonians are fine for me, I don't know why but I don't think Glaumring could be some kind of good portrait of his people. But it's nice to see two friends that understand each other so nicely. ::)
I also find it amusing that Auvandil condemns Barca for dealing with the Zuma, but are all buddies with Asylon who practically sleep in bed with them and worship them as gods.
I have never roleplayed Barca being uncivilized. I have said it on the forum , in order to RP with Barca one would first have to have a conversation with a Barcan. When I was king I had great relations with one of the Barcan rulers, a major fault with republics is rulers change so often and rarely do they carry over information and dealings with their peers.
Nonsense, they're a Republic, which no doubt means their people live in poverty whilst their Senators live in luxury and finery. As is the way.
You are free to believe that—or anything else—as much as you want. However, I want to reinforce that you are not free to RP Barcan culture, or its peasants or nobles, being a certain way without general permission from the Barcans (or prior RP from the Barcans describing their culture in that way).
Thats true, but any look at the stats page should be a good indicator of how you rp your or others kingdoms to a degree, if Barca said their city was paved with gold and their culture superior to etc etc, we'd laugh because it doesnt reflect the history or economy of Barca
You are free to believe that—or anything else—as much as you want. However, I want to reinforce that you are not free to RP Barcan culture, or its peasants or nobles, being a certain way without general permission from the Barcans (or prior RP from the Barcans describing their culture in that way).
That implies that I roleplay about Barca culture at all, which I don't.
There is a world of difference between talking on the forum and roleplaying in game.
You are free to believe that—or anything else—as much as you want. However, I want to reinforce that you are not free to RP Barcan culture, or its peasants or nobles, being a certain way without general permission from the Barcans (or prior RP from the Barcans describing their culture in that way).
I may not be able to role play on their behalf but I can see no reason why I can not role play my perception of them I choose (As Jimbo rode into the capital city of Barca, the smell struck him as offensive. Jimbo could never live in such a place. It was all so barbaric and dreary.) This was just my perception. It was a bunch of opinions. It could very well be that a Barcan would think the same upon entering Jimbo's country.
I can also role play my character portraying them any way i chose (Dear Important Person, It surprises me that Barca continues to exist. They are nothing more than a bunch of pig farmers. The problem is that they confuse their pigs and their peasants and have a little too much fun with both! We really should wipe such filth off the map and build a civilized, functional nation in Barca's place). This is me bad mouthing Barca. It doesn't make it true.
I really think that people seem to be taking ones expressed perception or opinion as making decisions for the other party.
The only part of that particular example that's a bit questionable is the smell.
Barca was built upon the ashes of two previous civilizations, the Ordenstaat and Silverfall? Its an ancient forested area probably littered with old buildings in the jungles, there is probably signs of poverty and different cultures of villages throughout the area, Barca probably has 2 or 3 native languages, the people are forest inclined and probably are a bit isolationist being so far from the major powers. The Barcans are an invasion outsider race, very few of them were actually born there, so they probably brought pieces of culture from their previous homeland in the eastlands, much like Asylon. Perhaps the peasantry dislike their alien rulers, or adore them? I don't know but Barca has a lot of potential to create a very interesting RP for its kingdom just because it is so messed up and diverse. You should be proud of your backwater mishmash melting pot. I am proud of Asylons diversity and backwardness, its much more fun to RP imperfection.
I tend to imagine Barca as having barely tamed wild lands, with pockets of agriculture here and there, a large number of very tiny isolated towns, but pestigious public institutions in the urban cores, with most cultural products (and products in general) being imports from Terran and D'Hara.
As for agricultural products, what I'd imagine would be: game (deer, elk), boar, yak, maple syrup, honey (from D'Haran-imported bees), mushrooms, beets, and cabbage.
There is a world of difference between talking on the forum and roleplaying in game.
You have admitted that you don't make any distinction when writing in this forum very often. In fact, I'd say doubtless that you roleplay constantly in this forum, that's something I think everyone could agree with. It's not the same that roleplaying in game indeed, as the range of your words here is probably wider, but it comes to be your character's opinion as well.
Just to clarify to you, Mendicant has referred to Barca as a "most servile people" whilst I the player have called them a third world country (As you said I never really make myself clear on the distinction sometimes) but to answer your point, there was a time when Aurvandil believed Barca was worth saving and defending, and that was before they drew on the benevolence and protection of Haktoo, and it is then that Mendicant declared them a rogue non-state and a most servile people undeserving of the treatment of a genuine, legitimate realm.
Thanks Chénier, copied. You've got to have an interesting cultural mixture in Québec.
And regarding to the native peoples in Dwilight, some time ago I read that according to the "Dwilightean calendar" it's been about twenty years that the first colonists arrived. Truth is even oldest realms wouldn't be but government structures placed on which should be a still strong native culture, and all that maybe mixed with some colonist civil population.
Barca's context is similar to New France, imo. Dwilight was a newly discovered continent with no native kingdom, populated by colonists from the old worlds. Barca was in one of the last edges of civilization, close to the only native nation and with shaky relations with them. A lot of woods. Small cities at most. Sponsored by more stable states.
It would be reasonnable to assume that the Barcan colonists (the general population at least, if not the nobles) would have adopted some aspects of Zuma culture, be it tools, food, clothing, or folklore. As the French did in America, especially with the «courreurs des bois».
That's also part of what inspired me for agricultural products. With all these untamed woodlands, there must be a lot of game. Hunting must be important. I imagine there being a lot of white-tail deer, possibly elk. And with all these forests, there must also be a lot of mushrooms. And with these winters, why not maple sap to turn into syrup? As for livestock, I'd figure that all of these untamed woods and Zuma lands must have a lot of predators in them. As such, it's much more likely to have large livestock, like cattle or yak, than smaller animals like sheep. I also imagine a more livestock-focused agriculture than vegetable-growing, as it needs less work to move cattle through the prairies than to plow lands that had never been cultivated. D'Haran honeybees would likely have been imported to be able to produce some sugar, and the bees would likely collect wildflower nectar from the prairies.
Now, I don't recall any actual Barcan RP about what they look like, but given all of the context, that's the general picture I give myself of Barca.
RP for southern Dwilight has always been subtropical; Madina Gardens, Palm Seas, etc.
Much more likely to be something like India in terms of flora and fauna. Jungles, not woodlands.
Syrup is unlikely.
RP for southern Dwilight has always been subtropical; Madina Gardens, Palm Seas, etc.
Much more likely to be something like India in terms of flora and fauna. Jungles, not woodlands.
But culturewise about the diversity and settlement patterns, yeah, Quebec may be a good comparison. I also see it as Numenor in LOTR. The locals worship the Shadow (Zuma), but the tall men from over the seas have come and built settlements over them, etc, etc.
If Terran/D'Hara are Mediterranean and Madina is Carribean, then that makes Barca something like... well, something like Kentucky, really. I hear there are people who can tell us what's that like.
Also, Terran's players, when they are RPing seasons, tend to refer to winter as monsoon season. We're really into this whole tropical thing. We dig the palm trees and stuff.
The only snow that falls in Terran is in the Phantarian forest in the north, and even then it's not deep. We've always RPed Odona as basically a jungle; Thysan too.
Evanburg and the west might be cooler... but still not THAT much cooler. I'm not sure how the Orvandeaux RP their climate. I hope subtropical. :/
Barca's furthest west might get some snow in winter, but I have a hard time imaging maple trees and such in Rettlewood.
Also, Terran's players, when they are RPing seasons, tend to refer to winter as monsoon season. We're really into this whole tropical thing. We dig the palm trees and stuff.
There are no maples in India, but there are some in indochina, which is right next to it. In northern Africa as well. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Map_genus_Acer.png
I have a hard time imagining palm trees in Barca, because that's not actually what's on the map. All of the drawn palm trees are on the east continent. Further, it's called "RettleWOOD" and "TwainWOOD". I never hear people refer to jungles as "the woods". There's also the climate zones, Barca clearly being out of the mediteranean climate zone.
It's easy to picture palm trees on Terran's coast, in Old Maroccidens. But I have a hard time imagining Barca having the same climate as Terran. The terrain is quite different. You are stretched along the eastern coast, with a major river going through you and a great lake on one border. Proximity to the badlands and mountains. Heck, even the Volcano seems to be sending its junk your way.
Oh, yeah– Barca probably isn't very palm-tree-ish. I would image it far less sandy than that. Again, methinks India is probably a good analog for Barca.
And good find on the maples. Can those maples actually be tapped for syrup?
However, the sap is only harvested at spring, when the days are warm enough and the nights cool enough. After a while, it is no longer harvested because it acquires a "bud" taste. It requires a winter, as far as I know.
So perhaps no maple syrup from Barca.
There's plenty of maples in Germany, but no syrup.
It will be interesting to see what becomes of the new religion. I can't imagine many in Aurvanil would be interested in joining, and with the present hostilities I doubt an Aurvandil-based religion will be able to spread outside Aurvandil and Falkirk.
Why would it spread to Falkirk at all? That would almost defeat it's point.
Why would it spread to Falkirk at all? That would almost defeat it's point.
There are OOC gains to religions– like an ability to manipulate your peasants, and prevent their manipulation by other religions.
This is good for Dwilight.
Indeed. This will make getting support against Aurvandil even easier.
So why would Aurvandil would want a religion, apart from the OOC gains?
isn't the entire SA bloc already against Aurvandil?
lol, um, yes and no.
They are against in principle, but their commitment to support is somewhat limited.
Because it gets Allison to be on their side?
The north has very limited options for waging war. About all we can do is offer food/gold. Or maybe monster hunting support. Unless Terran's capital gets attacked. It's just too far.
Yeah, not to mention the prestige for our characters.Weeks and weeks, I am not so sure about that though I know that there are some noble's of Astrum a region away from where everyone else is gathered strangely enough. Also, if I can work away at that D'haran pride, Morek may be joining the war again and in big numbers.
But Chenier, be fair, Astrum's army has been sitting around down South for weeks and weeks waiting for some Moot forces to turn up. It's not the Astrocracies that've failed to put troops in the field.
Quite simply, you won't.It may be a Republic, but SA is keeping a firm grasp on the realm, making sure that it stays only SA and basically theocratic.
Quite simply, you won't.
Of course gold and food would be useful. But most people would rather march 80 soldiers down than send 300 gold every other week. Marching troops is exciting. Sending gold is boring. And giving it away? Meh... there's no excitement for most people in bankrolling someone else's war.
Only few people in Aurvandil knew about decision to make new religion. I wonder how many times did old Allison spread her legs for Mendicant for him to agree on this xD
51 years old Allison and about 30 years old Mendicant? Ugh... nice show... :o I think gold and crew is enough in this case. Or maybe also some information and/or the wish to piss off the Astroists by giving home a self-declared renegade who wanted to create a schism in the SA.
Ha, you don't even want to know what's been going on lately.
We hate religion, we despise organised religion, and we outright loathe foreign superstition and now we have all three.
"This can only end well"
Too bad its not SMA to hold that attitude and your kingdom has finally decided to join the rest of Dwilight in actually playing the game the way Tom intended it. No one cares if you hate religion in RL and you are a rabid internet Atheist... In BM you love religion, no buts ifs or ands about it. Its not like following an IG religion will somehow sully your OOG holy atheism.He never said he was atheist and Aurvandil's dislike of religion has nothing to do with that based on what they have stated. Their dislike of religion is it taking their nobles focus away from the realm.
It seems 2013 will be the year of Aurvandil ! =) , some big changes and lots of exciting war campaigns!.
Pagan religions are uncivilized, Aurvandiil is not uncivilized.Pagan religions are unorganized, that's its.
Pagan religions are unorganized, that's its.
Order is a sign of civilization! It is a nobles duty to organize that which surrounds him, and give it meaningful form!Order and orginization are not the same, and though that argument could maybe be used, it can also be said that they could claim there faith believes in a handful of things that basically say helping your realm is important, thus not becoming a priest for that faith is valid.
No?
No. . probably not. Just wait, I'm sure Mendicant will soon be worshiped as a deity king, to affirm his right to govern all of Dwilight :P
I disagree. Pagans certainly had their 'priests', in the sense that there were people who claimed to be mediums of higher powers, or prophets, or seers. They also had their places of worship, to an extent. You have to remove your idea that the general features of organized religions - constructed temples, hierarchies, and codified beliefs - are the only features that constitute a religion.
But all this time of silent... Indeed plagues and fire are being plotted in Candiels!
Too bad its not SMA to hold that attitude and your kingdom has finally decided to join the rest of Dwilight in actually playing the game the way Tom intended it. No one cares if you hate religion in RL and you are a rabid internet Atheist... In BM you love religion, no buts ifs or ands about it. Its not like following an IG religion will somehow sully your OOG holy atheism.
you consider me so shallow as to use Battlemaster as an outlet for some sort of rampant boner for Atheism
And no, Aurvandil hasn't joined the rest of Dwilight to play the game "As Tom intended"
You use BM as an outlet for all your bizarre nihilistic OOC political beliefs, I think it stands to reason to assume the same for your religious ones.
You mean, like, SMA? Yeah, following the rules sure is predictable. Wouldn't want to, you know, follow the big bold yellow words that display when you sign up for the continent.
Well no, that's just something you reckon to be true because "Sure why not".
(blah blah blah elections suck)
And you would suggest we reduce such an incredibly important position to elections? To allow the possibility that some one with no greater intention than to advance their own career and agenda would be able to hold such a position? Madness. The Monarch is more than a simple ruler, he is the essence of everything that is his realm and people. A Monarch is therefore far more important than any elected official, than any politician and any ruler such as a Prime Minister.
And that is why he is not elected, but consented to. The people do not choose their Monarch through elections, but they consent to whether or not that Monarch indeed exemplifies all of the above and more. Consent is far more powerful than any vote, it is far more important than popularity and it is far more representative than any electoral process. The people consent to their Monarch, or they do not, and that ultimately decides on whether or not a Monarch is worthy of ruling them.
See:
Pages ~57 through like ~64 or something of this thread are chock full of this crap - literal OOC argumentation about why democracies aren't representative and other such 1st year poli sci shenanigans. It's pretty clear that BM is your outlet for all this horse!@#$.
But sure I'm just saying all of this stuff because of confirmation bias.
Religion and war are in the game and it does make your realm better to have an army of priests doing your bidding the same as soldiers. Nothing is stopping the Astroists from conducting mass auto-de fes in your lands you have nothing to fight back against the religions of Dwilight decimating your lands with our preaching.
I'm not going to make a detailed reply to Mendicant's points.
Not I say Mendicant, not noblessechevalier. I have a hard time believing that a modern human being actually believes that the argument he is made is logically consistent.
You don't actually think what you're saying makes sense and is true, do you? Like, it makes sense maybe from a late-Medieval perspective that basically ignored most of what we today recognize as fundamental human freedoms, and basic problems of political economy... but I get the impression you think what your saying is true on an OOC level. And that... really shocks me.
Yes, well you give the impression you believe things such as elections truly safeguard the freedoms and civil liberties of the people, and in turn represents the people, which in this day and age for anyone to still believe such nonsense is shocking, as you would put it.
In response to:
You said:
Slapping an addendum saying "oh hey btw I was just kidding all along lol" doesn't suddenly revoke everything you said, when you explicitly stated, right there, that holding democratic political views OOC in the modern age is shocking. Please don't try to BS me when it takes two clicks to prove otherwise.
I've been immature enough in digging into this flame war already so I'm gonna quit now. Have the last word if you'd like.
Oh that's all very darling and such, but I made one statement doubting the representative powers of an election and you go "Look, the Aurvandil government is an allegory for his bizarre OOC political beliefs!" so as I said, you've just assumed something to be true on next to no basis whatsoever, and equally assumed you could make it stick based on a single sentence I posted in which I (My OOC person and not the IG character of Mendicant) doubted modern elections, but in no way connected that on an OOC level to the IG government, ideology or philosophy of Aurvandil. In fact Aurvandil doesn't doubt elections at all, they just believe everyone else to be doing it wrong. So I fail to see how you've come to the conclusion that the Aurvandil system is representative of my own personal beliefs on anything other than the basis of "Yeah I reckon, 'cause why not".
A flame war? I would have called it a debate because that's what it is, not a petty attempt to flame each other, but whatever, if you don't want to held accountable for your accusations then don't make them in the first place.
.... so as I said, you've just assumed something to be true on next to no basis whatsoever....
Norrel is arguing that you're tying passionate OOC beliefs to your character and realm, and thus bending the game's rules in a fashion that many people obviously disapprove of.
Let's get back on topic, shall we?Aurvandil is fixing up their realm or something and we are letting them.
So... all's quiet on the southern front...
Aurvandil is fixing up their realm or something and we are letting them.
Well, we crushed the squatters
Wasn't Pasily originally lost to starvation, not Aurvandil?
Wasn't Pasily originally lost to starvation, not Aurvandil?Yes
No you didn't, the squatters just moved.Do you think they left for no reason? They left because they were crushed. ;D
but yes you regained your lands.
Do you think they left for no reason? They left because they were crushed. ;D
Yeah, no kiding. You showed those three nobles who's boss!
Yeah, no kiding. You showed those three nobles who's boss!Woah! Lets not understate this, it was at least 6, maybe 7 nobles and all their militia. ;)
What about the series og region revolts caused by the war decelerations? It seems like that was quite helpful in providing a bit of a breather.That was when we crushed Provincia. If you are talking about now, Aurvandil is doing whatever they feel like right now while we sit around too scared to attack.
Some big events happened down the South, any thoughts, opinions?
That was when we crushed Provincia. If you are talking about now, Aurvandil is doing whatever they feel like right now while we sit around too scared to attack.
Yes, well I find there is more than one way to convince the Moot that attacking Aurvandil is a good idea. It's certainly more convenient than marching north, only to find that Terran and D'Hara won't leave their walls end up wandering around looting and then returning home disappointed.It will be quite interesting to see, though always the biggest obstacle is the military leaders coordinating.
So lets see how well the Moot can fight when they're the aggressors attacking a foe on their own territory. Should be fun.
So lets see how well the Moot can fight when they're the aggressors attacking a foe on their own territory. Should be fun.I must see that.
I must see that.This just shows !@#$ty Barca is as an ally. You want to see it instead of take part and you are Barca's general.
The meaning of it, it has never happened before.
And at least this '!@#$ty' ally doesn't allow their lands to be consumed by Aurvandil. Then you would have a much bigger problem.
If Aurvandil had a mind to take your lands you wouldn't have a realm right now. You only haven't had your lands taken because we chose not to take them, aside from Gallaecia, Kydonia and Celtiberia (I don't see you retaking them). You can't really slag off D'Hara and Terran for having lost land just because you've had it easy and your enemy doesn't want to take your lands. At least they reconquered their lost territory from us.
Barca has no place acting smug because you're relatively intact when it's Terran and D'Hara who have actually been fighting this war on the front lines with all the risks and consequences that have come with it.
If you hadn't noticed, Aurvandil doesn't even bother to fight Barca unless you make a foray into our lands, as your realm and it's regions are detritus to us.
The Zuma obviously have nothing to do with this. Right, you don't attack just because you don't want to...
The Zuma obviously have nothing to do with this. Right, you don't attack just because you don't want to...
The Zuma didn't really pan out when we last waltzed into Rettleville and Twainwood and did as we pleased, did it?
Haktoo and Mendicant have an understanding over Barca. Besides which, when have you known Aurvandil to cow to military threats? Never.
Prove your might against the Zuma, then, if everyone else' armies bore you.
Prove your might against the Zuma, then, if everyone else' armies bore you.
Why would we take on another fight while we're fighting all of you. Your realm may be a waste of space but we only have so many fly swatters.
If Aurvandil had a mind to take your lands you wouldn't have a realm right now. You only haven't had your lands taken because we chose not to take them, aside from Gallaecia, Kydonia and Celtiberia (I don't see you retaking them). You can't really slag off D'Hara and Terran for having lost land just because you've had it easy and your enemy doesn't want to take your lands. At least they reconquered their lost territory from us.
Barca has no place acting smug because you're relatively intact when it's Terran and D'Hara who have actually been fighting this war on the front lines with all the risks and consequences that have come with it.
If you hadn't noticed, Aurvandil doesn't even bother to fight Barca unless you make a foray into our lands, as your realm and it's regions are detritus to us.
Talking about Fissoa, I don't know the whole story but it seems you just shown up with almost 2000 men landing in the core of they realm with no war declaration.
15/1600, but for the rest your assumptions are correct.
Allthough Mendicant sent out a message declaring war just before the landing, he did not officially declare war game mechanics wise.
I see. I guess that's the way to avoid the squeezed peasants to have some wish of independence for a real war declaration. I am curious to know how much is "just before". The turn before? Enough time to allow the Fissoan nobles fighting in Falkirk to return and defend their lands?
The meaning of it, it has never happened before.I apologize for the harsh description of you and your realm in my previous post.
And at least this '!@#$ty' ally doesn't allow their lands to be consumed by Aurvandil. Then you would have a much bigger problem.
D'Hara isn't a waste of space, and we're not even fighting them any more.Thank you for your kind words.
And we sort of just did take on another fight whilst "fighting them".
It is good to see you don't have interest in Barca, and I'm glad to read from you "D'Hara reconquered" rather than your so habitual "we just let them take it because that was our plan". As you say, Barca can't do anything to retake the regions you mentioned. However, it's surprising you like to mention them when you got them by giving home to traitors and deserters.To the detritus stuff, Aurvandil's sees the lords that joined them not as traitors but as lords escaping a corrupt realm that may have put bounties on their own lords. As to Allison, she isn't scum or anything but many see her as a heretic which can equate to the same except that you can't fault a realm for not caring about someone's religious troubles when they believe in a separation of state and religion.
You talk about detritus, but turns out that you seem to like the presence of many detritus of other realms within your borders. You have big armies and plenty of characters to feed your smug attitude, but you aren't quite selective to accept new ones of doubtless reputation and shady origins. It's clear it's the goal what matters rather than the way.
I remember some posts in which you talked contemptuously about the deals Barca have with the Zuma, and seems Mendicant make them too. If the Zuma didn't supported Barca in your invasion I think it was rather due to the fact Barca threw the first stone. And I'd like to add that if it was because of your deals with the Zuma, in your place I wouldn't say it loud after all the boasting on Aurvandil you have had.
Talking about Fissoa, I don't know the whole story but it seems you just shown up with almost 2000 men landing in the core of they realm with no war declaration.
It is good to see you don't have interest in Barca, and I'm glad to read from you "D'Hara reconquered" rather than your so habitual "we just let them take it because that was our plan".
You talk about detritus, but turns out that you seem to like the presence of many detritus of other realms within your borders. You have big armies and plenty of characters to feed your smug attitude, but you aren't quite selective to accept new ones of doubtless reputation and shady origins. It's clear it's the goal what matters rather than the way.
I remember some posts in which you talked contemptuously about the deals Barca have with the Zuma, and seems Mendicant make them too. If the Zuma didn't supported Barca in your invasion I think it was rather due to the fact Barca threw the first stone. And I'd like to add that if it was because of your deals with the Zuma, in your place I wouldn't say it loud after all the boasting on Aurvandil you have had.
Talking about Fissoa, I don't know the whole story but it seems you just shown up with almost 2000 men landing in the core of they realm with no war declaration.
I see. I guess that's the way to avoid the squeezed peasants to have some wish of independence for a real war declaration. I am curious to know how much is "just before". The turn before? Enough time to allow the Fissoan nobles fighting in Falkirk to return and defend their lands?
To the Zuma stuff, AFAIK, Mendicant has spoke with the Zuma to find out what of Barca he can attack without the Zuma caring to defend it but there has been no deals as that would be considered dishonorable.
Also, Allison is in Aurvandil. She has a great relationship with the Zuma. I am quite sure that Aurvandil has little to fear from the Zuma.
Then I held back on a game mechanics declaration because of negotiations with Luria Nova, Aurvandil doesn't intend a long term war with Fissoa anyway and a game mechanics declaration would rather give the impression we do. We're just jousting Fissoa at the moment.
The two stances don't contradict each other, D'Hara did reconquer because we made no effort to defend them. Unless D'Hara has an army larger and stronger than Aurvandil, which they don't, and capable of beating Aurvandil behind a level 5 fortress, or a level 2 motte and bailey, which they can't, then it substantiates the claim that they would never have taken the lands if we made an effort to defend them, which is perfectly true. The lands were a throwaway to buy us time and weren't worth the renewed war to defend.
And no, I'm not selective. Anyone can join Aurvandil within reason, so long as they abandon their previous culture and affiliation for the Commonwealth. We're very accepting of foreign nobles, as the original Orvandeaux was a mixture of Liberite's and Madinian's we don't set much astore to ethnicity.
We declared war before our arrival, as is the Aurvandilan way. We might have spoken earlier but Blacksheep is famous for refusing any sort of peace talks or negotiations.
Of course they're not contradictory sentences, but the first one sounded something different from the usual disdain I'm getting used to read from Aurvandilians towards their foes. It couldn't last for long.
As you know, I wasn't talking about ethnic origins. I was pointing that I would expect from a realm with a background supposedly based on chivalry and honour to have more scruples towards nobles accused of treason (in a case) and bribery (in another). As Penchant says, Aurvandilians justified their will to keep those regions with the "corruption" issue that some time ago was discussed here. Penchant, Aurvandil has (as far as I know) impeded the spreading of any religion; I think it's something different from a separation of state and religion, maybe rather an imposed state secularism, which could contradict the acceptation of a noble who wants to create a new religion. Anyway I wasn't talking about giving home to a schismatic or heretic noble within a religion's point of view.
I don't know who "Blacksheep" is
and I guess a turn before can be enough for the Aurvandilian way. Which I guess I'd expect from someone from a realm who doesn't complain regularly because can't get a nice war from his enemies.
The "Moot forewarning" reason contradicts an announcement one of your realm-mates made in the forum about the invasion of Fissoa. And if it is actually a reason, it surprises me to see so much prudence from you when not even 1/3 of your nobles went for tourism there, and later you challenged in this topic your enemies to attack you in your own lands. And as you know, "jousting" talks about combats under equally conditions amongst gentlemen, rather than furtive landing attacks against a surprised enemy.
Regarding Mendicant's conversations with the Zuma, you say you don't bother about Barca but it seems you "look for the holes on a treaty" to know how to inflict damage to an enemy with no reprisals. Very chivalric indeed.
The thing is mate, that doesn't work.
You only intended to joust with Barca too. And you're still at war.
Limited wars only work if both sides want to keep them limited.
To be perfectly frank, I have no idea what the Moot is doing, OOC or IC :-\I have good news I forgot to tell you earlier. The good news is that Alura will be back. The bad news is that Greg's laptop broke so he won't be back for roughly a month still.
Barca was part of the 'moot since way before Aurvandil was around. To claim that the war is the only thing keep the 'moot together is rather ridiculous.
To be perfectly frank, I have no idea what the Moot is doing, OOC or IC :-\
Yes, to claim that would be.I disagree, the main cases of resentment are because of the war. We got a long just fine before, especially D'hara and Barca as we were quite happy with them when we bought their food.
But what I did claim, was it seems the war is the only thing keep Barca in the Moot. Considering how much you seem to resent one another and hold nothing but contempt.
I disagree, the main cases of resentment are because of the war. We got a long just fine before, especially D'hara and Barca as we were quite happy with them when we bought their food.
I am kind of getting tired of this dog pile to. I mean at first it's fun but then you realize terran's butt is in your face and the astroists have that stinky cologne on. and then you see Asylon coming over. and no one likes Asylon. let's make peace already so we can go fight the lurias!
I am kind of getting tired of this dog pile to. I mean at first it's fun but then you realize terran's butt is in your face and the astroists have that stinky cologne on. and then you see Asylon coming over. and no one likes Asylon. let's make peace already so we can go fight the lurias!
Allison with a church, Aurvandil helping Falkirk, Fissoa getting it up the wrong'un til they bleed.
This is what happens when you leave us alone. We get bored and do things we otherwise would never have done.
Or rather you do things we have always stated you would.
The orvando-saxons unite as we always knew they would.
Well with your persecuting them constantly I'd hardly blame them IC or OOCWhat?! Persecuting? What interactions suggest that. I am not saying IC or OOC we ever thought they weren't an ally of Aurvandil but I don't believe we ever persecuted them in a manner they would know about.
Well with your persecuting them constantly I'd hardly blame them IC or OOC
Well with your persecuting them constantly I'd hardly blame them IC or OOC
I like to think of that as you got along fine until you actually had to talk and interact over anything meaningful, then you realised you were stuck with idiots.
And you shouldn't try to use what I say directly OOC to reflect on our IC, because I speak much more informally about it from an OOC perspective.
Or rather you do things we have always stated you would.
The orvando-saxons unite as we always knew they would.
Poor Aurvandilians, just like the Lurians, it's not their fault if they insist on war with their neighbors!
Don't heat up mate, maybe you're taking things too personal. Is that Cavalier attitude? ;)
Maybe I had a romantic view of Cavaliers that you don't share as it seems.
Chenier is the only victim
Maybe if in some time Mendicant wants peace with the Fissoan and they show him where he can put his treaty, he'll learn it's not only about the Moot. It's about giving some meaning to diplomatic relations, rather than to use them for game-mechanics to keep calm the civil population.
Who are the victims in all this? Are there any?
Chenier is the only victim
There was no "heating up". It's hard to inflect tone but there it was more of an indifferent remark.
I draw my understanding of Chivalry and Chevaliers from books written in the fourteenth century for the French Order of the Star, which outline exactly what it means to be a Chevalier and to adhere to Chivalry. You can get a good translated copy on amazon I've found.
And it's an excellent source for understanding the medieval mindset and the SMA.
Oh, sorry. I don't usually use insults when I feel indifferent.
Maybe you copied and pasted it perfectly to the Wiki, but it doesn't mean your actions fit to those of the French Order of the Star. Thanks for the reference.
Poor D'Hara, they still think they're the victim of aggression in all this. Right after you attack us in Gallaecia after only yesterday having your Prime Minister say he wouldn't pursue further war with Aurvandil.
Nope, haven't copy and pasted anything onto the wiki, and if you notice there isn't anything about chivalry on our wiki pages, yet.
And well, we're not trying to copy the Order of the Star, we are however using the Codes of Chivalry of the time as a guideline. Sadly the game mechanics don't support some of the things we'd have to do to, such as never retreating.
Oh, we can "want peace" like Aurvandilians too. Tell you what: Give all coastal regions you own on the Western Continent to D'Hara, and the rest to Barca, and we can be friends.
Very few comments i have ever seen you make have furthered the conversation at all. Is it that hard to put your emotions aside and objectively talk about the war?Well his point was we want you dead and you never offer peace. (At the beginning with Barca and the big communication fiasco and to D'hara when you took the duchy of Paisly, said we could have it back if we were neutral so we stayed neutral and you made a realm there which was a huge !@#$ you in D'hara's eyes.
Oh, we can "want peace" like Aurvandilians too. Tell you what: Give all coastal regions you own on the Western Continent to D'Hara, and the rest to Barca, and we can be friends.
Well his point was we want you dead and you never offer peace. (At the beginning with Barca and the big communication fiasco and to D'hara when you took the duchy of Paisly, said we could have it back if we were neutral so we stayed neutral and you made a realm there which was a huge !@#$ you in D'hara's eyes.
That's cute.I have only ever seen those two peace offers and I have been a part of the House of Lords for months. I am not saying Rynn isn't keeping things to himself but you could include ambassadors in the convo so its not one person with the info, ie an ambassador could bring things to the HoL if they think Rynn should have and didn't. Also, its kinda BS your whole D'hara is rallying to attack Aurvandil as one rogue dame does not mean we are rallying an offensive. I don't even think the dame is in an army and when has D'hara ever attacked Gallecia or attacked period?
I kept offering peace to D'Hara. Hell, even yesterday I asked D'Hara if they would be happy to maintain peace between our realms. Though D'Hara are now rallying to attack Aurvandil, rather than keep the peace.
And didn't your mother ever tell you "I want never gets"? You've gotta ask nicely.
I have received a report about a skirmish in Gallaecia involving a Barcan noble, which I don't know the reason. After the way you raided Barcan lands last time, I think he's not in his right mind. I guess some explanation will come soon.
"The Candielian Kingdom and Commonqwealth of Aurvandil; a Monarchy and Commonwealth built upon the founding principles of Sovereignty, Royalism and Chivalry (...)"
The first lines. I won't spend more time to check for more. Maybe some day I'll take a look to the book you quoted to see if the arrogance is other of the principles the Codes if Chivalry defend. I think however it's more like being humble and selfless.
Why would you have to retreat if you wouldn't engage a combat against overwhelming numbered enemies?
Very few comments i have ever seen you make have furthered the conversation at all. Is it that hard to put your emotions aside and objectively talk about the war?
I have only ever seen those two peace offers and I have been a part of the House of Lords for months. I am not saying Rynn isn't keeping things to himself but you could include ambassadors in the convo so its not one person with the info, ie an ambassador could bring things to the HoL if they think Rynn should have and didn't. Also, its kinda BS your whole D'hara is rallying to attack Aurvandil as one rogue dame does not mean we are rallying an offensive. I don't even think the dame is in an army and when has D'hara ever attacked Gallecia or attacked period?
Though D'Hara are now rallying to attack Aurvandil, rather than keep the peace.
No I mean, you're rallying in Fissoa to attack us.We may be rallying in Fissoa to help defend an ally but I consider aiding an ally in defense against your army quite different than attacking your realm. Also even if it ends being us attacking your army I still consider it defense as we are defending our ally from your army.
Forget Gallaecia.
We may be rallying in Fissoa to help defend an ally but I consider aiding an ally in defense against your army quite different than attacking your realm. Also even if it ends being us attacking your army I still consider it defense as we are defending our ally from your army.
No I mean, you're rallying in Fissoa to attack us.
Forget Gallaecia.
If you weren't attacking Fissoa, D'Haran forces wouldn't be preparing to defend their ally against your attacks.
It's not "attacking" when it's the Aurvandilians who are on the offensive, we usually refer to that as "defending". It's a cute slight though, implying that D'Hara is the aggressor when in fact it's Aurvandil who is at fault.
If you weren't attacking Fissoa, D'Haran forces wouldn't be preparing to defend their ally against your attacks.Are you playing now? And yeah though no need to continue arguing when he already agreed to that.
It's not "attacking" when it's the Aurvandilians who are on the offensive, we usually refer to that as "defending". It's a cute slight though, implying that D'Hara is the aggressor when in fact it's Aurvandil who is at fault.
Yes well my apologies well what I meant to say was that D'Hara are the ones moving to recontinue hostilities, not attack Aurvandil. Though, it'll be interesting to see if they do attack the Aurvandilan army rather than hold up a defensive position in Fissoa.
Offcourse that also depends on what Aurvendil and falk forces in fissoa do.
There in massive numbers, there isnt going to be a nice/decent battle if falk/aurvendil don't attack the fields.
But if Aurvandil was serious about taking down Fissoa we would have sent more than one and a half armies. We're just here to put you in a position sufficiently bad to discourage any forays in Falkirk and to pressure you into accepting a peace without the conquest of Falkirk. ('Cause it always works when I try to pressure realms to peace militarily sigh).
We could have sacked the Fields in a late turn move if we wanted to, as it had what was it, a hundred men defending it? Well it's doomed to failure if we attack with just the Fissoan army defending it, let alone Fissoa and D'Hara. And we've nicely cut the Grand Duchy in half, from Libba, to Munawai to Mangai. Once Munawai and Libba revolt as well your realm will be severed in two. No sense deviating from this courseobviously, yes, just hoping for a huge battle, we all love that, it ain't a crime.
We're just here to put you in a position sufficiently bad to discourage any forays in Falkirk and to pressure you into accepting a peace without the conquest of Falkirk. ('Cause it always works when I try to pressure realms to peace militarily sigh).Perhaps try a different diplomatic strategy? given that the sigh implicates its ineffectiveness.
obviously, yes, just hoping for a huge battle, we all love that, it ain't a crime.
Perhaps try a different diplomatic strategy? given that the sigh implicates its ineffectiveness.
Your dfinatly weakening Fissoa somewhat for a certain amount of time, 'n also lowering our effective offensive amry a bit.
But mostly, what your doing effectively is showing Fissoa how your army rocks, which we already knew :)
Thanks for the show.
I'm betting Falkirk could have dealt with Fissoa easily enough, considering how they keep massacring the armies every time they march; Falkirk's army is far stronger than it was at the start of the war and on top of that, they've gone from being a two region realm, to owning all the east Mendicontinent whilst beating back Fissoa.
So I guess it is rather overkill for Aurvandil to be there as well. But our army needs exercising, our nobles need something to do, and the Moot needs provoking into attacking us, either they !@#$ or they get of the pot, basically. We haven't fought a battle in months against each other. I mean, unless we start fighting we may as well formalise peace.
That's cute.
I kept offering peace to D'Hara. Hell, even yesterday I asked D'Hara if they would be happy to maintain peace between our realms. Though D'Hara are now rallying to attack Aurvandil, rather than keep the peace.
And didn't your mother ever tell you "I want never gets"? You've gotta ask nicely.
After 81 pages, I don't see why people are still arguing about this. Everyone (except Falkirk, and maybe Luria) hates Aurvandil. No point in trying to make the other side believe your propaganda.
Everyone (except Falkirk, and maybe Luria) hates Aurvandil.
We'll be coming to fight them just as soon as we can get our armies straightened out and pointed in the right direction.I can almost see the fall of Mendicant. Can't wait for it.
Luria may not exactly hate Aurvandil, but we're hardly their buds.
We'll be coming to fight them just as soon as we can get our armies straightened out and pointed in the right direction.
At least you guys have the balls to march into Aurvandil territory unlike some ... or do you?! ::)
The balls? Certainly. The only question is whether we can keep all our collective swords pointed in the same direction long enough.
The balls? Certainly. The only question is whether we can keep all our collective swords pointed in the same direction long enough.Your swords will be pointed in the same direction as long as you ignore Mendicant. His tongue is like poison.
Your swords will be pointed in the same direction as long as you ignore Mendicant. His tongue is like poison.
Well, I can't speak for all of us, but Alanna rarely listens to someone whose name means "beggar."
Well, I can't speak for all of us, but Alanna rarely listens to someone whose name means "beggar."I remember her as someone who rarely listens to anyone. ;)
I remember her as someone who rarely listens to anyone. ;)
mmm... Good attempt!... but I don't buy it! ;D
I think you really had a big indigestion of falk propaganda! Aurvandil is in Fissoa because the falkirkians were collapsing... Your presence in Fissoa only shows Flakir? is a puppet state... Not that we didn't know it already! :P
I can almost see the fall of Mendicant. Can't wait for it.
Your swords will be pointed in the same direction as long as you ignore Mendicant. His tongue is like poison.
We've gone through the "we don't care if people like us" bit a 1000 times too. The propaganda is there because if one side isn't challenged it becomes the accepted fact.
Asylon do not hate Aurvandil. We find them very interesting and personally I would like to have them as neighbour. Would make a nice addition next to the Zuma and Astrum.
I don't know, if people had a bit more tact about things then Falkirk wouldn't have been made enemies of the same people who are trying to destroy Aurvandil. Putting Aurvandil in a weaker position. You basically got two of the best militarise to join together when they didn't want to, at all and rather treated each other with indifference (We still do). Lets see how that works out for you. It's given Fissoa quite the beating already.That is total bull!@#$, IMO. Until a week ago there had been 0 thought of anyone aiding Fissoa and by the time D'hara came Aurvandil was already there, with LN not even on the way. Fissoa is doing a land grab which has nothing to do with Aurvandil. D'hara and LN are aiding an ally in defense. There has been 0 aggression against Falkirirk except by Fissoa, who has not done anything against Aurvandil. Fissoa does a decent job against Falkirirk so you bring in the Aurvandilian army and boss Falkirirk around. In what way is that not acting like Falkirirk is a puppet realm of Aurvandil? You complain everyone does all this propaganda but you do propaganda just as much.
But then, they don't like it when Mendicant is trying to be reasonable and offer them highly advantageous peace and alliances and an all round amicable solution.Again, I am calling BS. I recall once where D'hara considered an alliance against LN, but then we thought about how you treated Barca after they lent you a city and thought that was a bad idea. As to peace, I don't know about the offer to Barca but the one you gave to D'hara was reasonable except that when you said you would give the duchy of Paisly to D'hara, you then made a realm there instead which was a massive insult. I have never heard of or seen any other peace talks happen, so without any proof or a player with a character outside of Aurvandil confirm it, I am not going to believe your constant offerings of peace.
That is total bull!@#$, IMO. Until a week ago there had been 0 thought of anyone aiding Fissoa and by the time D'hara came Aurvandil was already there, with LN not even on the way. Fissoa is doing a land grab which has nothing to do with Aurvandil. D'hara and LN are aiding an ally in defense. There has been 0 aggression against Falkirirk except by Fissoa, who has not done anything against Aurvandil. Fissoa does a decent job against Falkirirk so you bring in the Aurvandilian army and boss Falkirirk around. In what way is that not acting like Falkirirk is a puppet realm of Aurvandil? You complain everyone does all this propaganda but you do propaganda just as much.
Oh what rubbish, I've seen the letters were Rynn declares he will have Falkirk destroyed and how he incites Fissoa to keep Falkirk occupied so they don't help Aurvandil, and no these letters didn't come from Falkirk so they weren't doctored for the Freestate cause. I've seen the letters were others encourage such actions and incite realms to war with Falkirk, I saw the promises to have Fissoa reinforced in their war.I am not arguing against that per say but you act like Falkirk and Aurvandil are on the edge of survival and forced to band together. That and Falkirk has only ever acted like a puppet to Aurvandil and both Aurvandil and Falkirk never try to act like or say anything that would suggest they are not allies. Sure OOC you claim to not be and actually hate each other or some crap but IG you just go along with what everyone says.
D'Hara outright declared that after Aurvandil was beaten, they would scourge Falkirk from existence. Many in the Veinsormoot declared Aurvandil and Falkirk as one in the same, what is this whole Orvando-saxon wank if not a unified term to describe both Aurvandil and Falkirk? That, evidently all people think of Falkirk when they see it is a vassal of Aurvandil, that make that clear IC, so it stands to reason on that basis alone that they will war Falkirk, when they declare them puppets of Aurvandil, give them the same derogatory ethnic slur and incite war against them.
You underestimate just what Aurvandil is capable of. We went into this war with a mindset of delaying our foes militarily to have a chance to negotiate, but as we've lost all chance of negotiations we're fully free to max our our military (which, with 60 nobles is over 4,000 mobile soldiers plus militia, as the upper tier of our limits) and then use it.
Thank you. Sincerity can do that to a man when he speaks.
As Rynn said, Mendicant has a certain amount of "purity" and sincerity when he bothers to write letters that is rather endearing.
Oh what rubbish, I've seen the letters were Rynn declares he will have Falkirk destroyed and how he incites Fissoa to keep Falkirk occupied so they don't help Aurvandil, and no these letters didn't come from Falkirk so they weren't doctored for the Freestate cause. I've seen the letters were others encourage such actions and incite realms to war with Falkirk, I saw the promises to have Fissoa reinforced in their war.
D'Hara outright declared that after Aurvandil was beaten, they would scourge Falkirk from existence. Many in the Veinsormoot declared Aurvandil and Falkirk as one in the same, what is this whole Orvando-saxon wank if not a unified term to describe both Aurvandil and Falkirk? That, evidently all people think of Falkirk when they see it is a vassal of Aurvandil, that make that clear IC, so it stands to reason on that basis alone that they will war Falkirk, when they declare them puppets of Aurvandil, give them the same derogatory ethnic slur and incite war against them.
Alliances, people. They are viral. Essential to D'Hara's survival, but potentially one of our greatest weaknesses as well.
...Has Julian ever actually interacted with her? Or just heard about her from people who felt they were wronged by her? (Like Gwendolyn Elorie Archbane, who spent multiple RL years trying her level best to get Alanna dethroned with no success...)Yes he has. You might not remember but before Julius founded the Republic of Barca, he served Pian en Luries and later Giask.
Yes he has. You might not remember but before Julius founded the Republic of Barca, he served Pian en Luries and later Giask.
Damn, you're right. I had forgotten.No problem. But I love how you play Alanna. Good for the fun.
And sorry for getting the name wrong :)
I recall once where D'hara considered an alliance against LN, but then we thought about how you treated Barca after they lent you a city and thought that was a bad idea.
I was so completely against Barca lending them a city. I have no idea why everyone was so compelled to take that track but I was dead certain that getting Evanburg back would not be pretty. I was outvoted though...Well no one really liked Madina is what I hear. The treaty should of been something like, when a clear victory of the war has been established Aurvandil must give back the city.
Isnt Orthodox Astroism the religion of Aurvandiil now?I believe it to be the Cult of Reason actually.
I believe it to be the Cult of Reason actually.
Well no one really liked Madina is what I hear. The treaty should of been something like, when a clear victory of the war has been established Aurvandil must give back the city.
You can look it up to confirm, but I'm pretty sure it did.
And yea, nobody liked Madina. They refused until the very end to promise not to invade D'Hara again for Paisly. By then, it was too late. Had they done so when the war broke out, Aurvandil would have been destroyed quickly.
Evanburg is a townsland, not a city.
And well to be fair, Vallyn was talking out of his arse when he said that. Unless he actually predicted the defection of three lords, the subsequent diplomatic slight by Julius and the declaration of war. His assertion was baseless.
Evanburg is a townsland, not a city.
And well to be fair, Vallyn was talking out of his arse when he said that. Unless he actually predicted the defection of three lords, the subsequent diplomatic slight by Julius and the declaration of war. His assertion was baseless.
No - he just claimed that Aurvandil would not be a friend of the Moot's at the end of the day. And I think it would be safe to say that has passed.
Of course he didn't have any proof - other than the fact that Aurvandil was formed by defecting nobles, so clearly they were traitors. And you can't trust a traitor.
I don't even remember anyone who was on the Lord's Council that wanted to take Paisly after the Capital was moved to the Tower. Our issue was Barca, never Paisly. And then Barca supporting Aurvandil - well, at least that turned out just like Madina said it would. . . pretty sure Vallyn flat up told the Moot that Aurvandil would betray them and keep the city.
Yea, but then again: would Madina have been a friend at the end of the day?
Madina had griefed us for too long. Yes, we may have Aurvandil to worry about now, but at least we got closure about Madninian "claims" to what was then our capital. The idea wasn't that Aurvandil would be our friend forever, but that we'd take care of them in due time as well.
Whether people wanted it or not, your ruler, until VERY late in the conflict (like, until you were obviously doomed and beyond saving to everyone's eyes but your own) refused to promise not to ever let such a war erupt again. There might not have been any plans, but he refused to curtail the "rights" of his nobles to "uphold their claims", and that this was not a promise a Madinian ruler could legally make. Which honestly quite undermined the later promise and pissed off some D'Harans more than anything.
And as I said above, the idea was never that Aurvandil would never betray us. We were just sick of Madina, and did not consider that Aurvandil or Madina were our sole options for who would reside to our South.
Yea, but then again: would Madina have been a friend at the end of the day?
Madina had griefed us for too long. Yes, we may have Aurvandil to worry about now, but at least we got closure about Madninian "claims" to what was then our capital. The idea wasn't that Aurvandil would be our friend forever, but that we'd take care of them in due time as well.
Whether people wanted it or not, your ruler, until VERY late in the conflict (like, until you were obviously doomed and beyond saving to everyone's eyes but your own) refused to promise not to ever let such a war erupt again. There might not have been any plans, but he refused to curtail the "rights" of his nobles to "uphold their claims", and that this was not a promise a Madinian ruler could legally make. Which honestly quite undermined the later promise and pissed off some D'Harans more than anything.
And as I said above, the idea was never that Aurvandil would never betray us. We were just sick of Madina, and did not consider that Aurvandil or Madina were our sole options for who would reside to our South.
it was really cool to read that reply from Phellan on his experience as a government member in Madina, haha.
that was exactly what i hoped to achieve with a !@#$ed up goverment system like madinas system.
There where no laws forcing anyone to make consesion about things or work 'together' as a 'realm' (unless a state of emergency was declared, like the roman dictator the Admiral would finally become a real general and only in the situation Madina would be a real nation).
There where however laws in place that allows you to pratically kill anyone who you would have a problem with(not that it happened like that)
Seeing Madina as a realm was the bigest misunderstand of Madina i think.
It was more a nation in the sense that there lack of nation binds them and agree that this kind of feudal liberty is what is the norm for good and just.
It was almost more of a religion then something else :P
I don't even remember anyone who was on the Lord's Council that wanted to take Paisly after the Capital was moved to the Tower. Our issue was Barca, never Paisly. And then Barca supporting Aurvandil - well, at least that turned out just like Madina said it would. . . pretty sure Vallyn flat up told the Moot that Aurvandil would betray them and keep the city.I remember that Vallyn and Julius couldn't get along. Something that greatly irritated Hireshmont to hear Julius speak as he did. Because Julius didn't liked Madina and Vallyn, we prevented the 'Moot to cross Barca to attack Aurvandil while we gave them Evanburg in fief. This all didn't turned out the way we hoped for, mostly because Aurvandil grew stronger than the 'Moot.
Evanburg is a townsland, not a city.It were not the 'diplomatic slights' from Julius which caused this war. When I arrived in Candiels, I wasn't received as warmly as the first time. And from the first moment until the end of Julius and Mendicant's negotiation, Mendicant twisted Julius' words and took insult at the slightest of things. That while Julius was enduring insults after insults. It was soo clear that Mendicant had zero intention of ever handing back Barca's region, and eventually blamed my 'insults' for the war that followed. It was shameless, but I am loving the action.
And well to be fair, Vallyn was talking out of his arse when he said that. Unless he actually predicted the defection of three lords, the subsequent diplomatic slight by Julius and the declaration of war. His assertion was baseless.
Terran ruler just quit the game?! Any news about that? Its sad when players leaves the game but oh well what can you do. I wonder who will take his place.Well, I should know this, but who was Terran's ruler? I barely had their banker down which is more relevant to me, and I hear their ruler is gone.
Well, I should know this, but who was Terran's ruler? I barely had their banker down which is more relevant to me, and I hear their ruler is gone.
I can't imagine this will have a good affect on peace talks, Roaven actually seemed interested in them.
Perhaps the moot realizes that this is the only chance they have right now to open up there western front.
Or they will never win a war against Aurvendil ever again, because by the time Falkirk falls, Fissoa would be wise to sue for peace with Aurvendil.
And if Falkirk does fall? Well they will just rejoin Aurvandil, and I would love to see how powerful we'd become with 90 or so nobles. The best choice for a power balance is to keep Falkirk around, particularly as Falkirk and Aurvandil hold each other in relative contempt due to Falkirk being a Freestate, and Aurvandil being a Monarchy (which, Freestatism decries as tyranny) and as mutual adversaries when it comes to knighthood and Chivalry which will inevitable lead to war just to prove whose chivalry is superior.
And if Falkirk does fall? Well they will just rejoin Aurvandil, and I would love to see how powerful we'd become with 90 or so nobles. The best choice for a power balance is to keep Falkirk around, particularly as Falkirk and Aurvandil hold each other in relative contempt due to Falkirk being a Freestate, and Aurvandil being a Monarchy (which, Freestatism decries as tyranny) and as mutual adversaries when it comes to knighthood and Chivalry which will inevitable lead to war just to prove whose chivalry is superior.
Well, the Moot has nothing to fear from Aurvandil really. Aurvandil has had ample opportunity to war with the Veinsormoot with the intent to see it destroyed and we've pointedly refused to do so, and refused to escalate hostilities when we thought peace was attainable. Before this entire war happened, Aurvandil was going to march up north and to help Terran and Asylon, but we couldn't do so whilst Barca was threatening future wars. It was never our intention to fight D'Hara or Terran, and it still isn't.
Falkirk won't fall, I don't know what convinced you they will. You can't harm any part of them that matters, which is Madina Gardens and Madina City (which is why your war policy so far has been a disastrous failure as it involves looting their rurals which had no peasants or production anyway) Aurvandil sells them all their food, and Falkirk has what... a 14kcs mobile army plus militia, plus Aurvandilan support which if we deployed all of our forces right now, is over 30kcs mobile. Which combined is far more than what D'Hara, Fissoa and Luria Nova can combine to send against us, plus Madina Gardens and Madina City have high level fortifications. In months of war Fissoa is further from beating Falkirk than they've ever been, a single Aurvandil raid of Fissoa was more decisive and damaging than any other event in the war.
And if Falkirk does fall? Well they will just rejoin Aurvandil, and I would love to see how powerful we'd become with 90 or so nobles. The best choice for a power balance is to keep Falkirk around, particularly as Falkirk and Aurvandil hold each other in relative contempt due to Falkirk being a Freestate, and Aurvandil being a Monarchy (which, Freestatism decries as tyranny) and as mutual adversaries when it comes to knighthood and Chivalry which will inevitable lead to war just to prove whose chivalry is superior.
"We hate each other; but anytime anyone threatens either of us we always band together and pledge to welcome each others' nobles in case of defeat."
And you wonder why people lump you together....
Actually, this only came after people lumped together and threatened us both, and your statement pays no deference at all to the former nobles of Madina that invoked such a response from Aurvandil anyway.
It is absurd to say Barca was the reason for you to not help Terran and Asylon. It was proved that Barca could complain all it would like because of the regions you stole, but nor in diplomatic neither military way it could do anything to get them back. Did you see Barca as a threat? At this point it sounds just ridiculous. And we still have got the Provincia di Fiorenza matter. That was an awful way to prove your good intentions towards Terran and D'Hara.
In "single combat" Fissoa could have beaten Falkirk. And I think you underestimate your enemy if you think a combined force of Fissoa, D'Hara and Luria Nova couldn't put you in a tight spot. Moreover, I don't think you could indefinitely support economically and in food supply Falkirk. You have already squeezed your regions and pushed the peasants to their limits, and maybe a new war declaration from Luria Nova and D'Hara could induce to a civil rebellion.
Maybe in a short term if Falkirk falls it would be beneficial for you. But your lands can't produce enough gold and food to maintain the army that would correspond to 90 nobles. At some point, they wouldn't just be able to pay their troops, and of course it would help to block the eventual commerce you could have with the current Falkirkian lands. They would have to start using their own family wealth and if there is actually some kind of rivalry between you, maybe they would start to be willing to return to the lands they owned although they were called in a different way and sustained a new realm.
the Averothoi and Vandils are definatly more brother some as Fissoa and any ally.
There realms are ruled and strategy conducted in a similiar way with Aurvendil the only one to have an identity.
Thats also why your two realm cooperate the best (which will hopefully change or else having allies is still useless)
I said it and say it again that the reason falkrik is a realm has mostly to do because the players where already a group before they joined BM.
Aurvendil has finally grown in a real realm with indentity and diferent kind of families form different backgrounds, quite alot also report its fun playing there.
Falkirk on the other hand still mostly is those same few players.
I would actually look forth to see those nobles integrate in Aurvendil, perhaps that would give them some more character.
I am still puzzled why they actually all should join Aurvendil and not leave the continent all together.
If they could have beaten Falkirk, they would have, but as you have seen Falkirk consistently destroyed and defeated the Fissoan army in the field more than five times. The Fissoan armies were being consecutively destroyed by Falkirk every time they marched over. Oh I'm sure they could put us in a tight spot, but we know our !@#$ when it comes to war. Falkirk especially, as they are all veterans of the League of Free Nations and the continent wide war, they've shown they can take down bigger, stronger enemies despite being in a tight spot.
Barca threatened future war and hostile actions against Aurvandil, whilst insulting the High Sovereign and telling Aurvandil we owed our existence to them and we should do as they say on that basis, yeah that didn't go down well. You can call it absurd, but Aurvandil likes to be SMA about diplomacy, and insulting and threatening a monarch is not something that would have been tolerated by a foreign realm.
I'd really like to see those conversations, from Julius' point of view Mendicant was rather trying to turn every word he said as an insult, while talking to him with disdainful manners. Since you confirmed some time ago your OOC intention to keep the regions on your side, I guess you was just trying to force a situation that allowed you to act feeling insulted. So, you would be able to say "you've insulted the High Sovereing, and failed diplomatically in your attempt to have back your regions", rather than "we're going to keep these regions because our army is much stronger, so don't even try".
It's already a recurrent topic but I think it's not very "SMA about diplomacy" to offer a realm peace and then put a puppet state in its lands. As it isn't either to raid the lands of other realm to help your allies and then offering peace.
You've mentioned SMA and also your recently founded indigenous religion, and in my humble opinion a religion called "Cult of Reason" sounds rather a late 18th century philosophical current than a medieval-looking religion. Things like that could make other players think that it's been founded in order to keep the peasants tied to their lords and fight the spreading of other religions, included the Orthodox Astroism. I insist, it's just my opinion.
Do you know the definition of cult? The word was first used in the 17th century its hardly antiquated...Are you trying to say that the word doesn't fit with SMA, because the game targets things no later than, what, the 1300's?
Are you trying to say that the word doesn't fit with SMA, because the game targets things no later than, what, the 1300's?
Simple, Falkirkian Freestate are a tyranny as a government system, but they're not tyrannical in the modern interpretation of the word. I've always thought that Battlemaster tyrannies are simply self made realms under self made rulers kind of thing, with no overtones as to a "tryannical" nature as we might interpret it on an OOC level through a modern perspective on the word.
And Freestatism is juxtaposed to Monarchism, which they consider to be tyrannical in the modern sense, dictatorships basically. As Freestatism overthrew the Averothian Monarchy for much the same reasons.
No specific date, for if I remember correctly, some aspects of BM fit better with the 900s, whereas many others fit better with the late 1500s.700-1300, I think, is the semi-official guideline. It's on the wiki somewhere...
A mendicant is a beggar. It is very ironic that the character, Mendicant, is rather arrogant and imperious. If you slavishly bow and kiss his feet, he will nonchalantly give you what you wish. If you try -- at all -- to stand head to head with him, he will demonstrate his superiority by cowing you into submission. I'm not privy to what went on between Mendicant and Julius, but I wouldn't be surprised if Julius refused to submit to Mendicant; that unwilling to sacrifice his dignity, he attempted some form (however timid) of posturing instead. In this light, Mendicant's actions make perfect sense -- although, this is all postulation, perhaps I've read him entirely wrong.From what I have heard about the Galvez family with diplomacy, it was likely that and more and I don't really doubt the insults or whatever else Noblesse claims related to negotiations with Barca oringinally.
"Cult" makes it sound antiquated, however "reason" brings to mind the age of reason, which is more modern. So it does sound odd. I'm not familiar with it's tenets though, so I will not judge. For all I know, it' could be very clever.
Are you trying to say that the word doesn't fit with SMA, because the game targets things no later than, what, the 1300's?
Do you know the definition of cult? The word was first used in the 17th century its hardly antiquated... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult
I went goat hunting on a small island in the Pacific once with this Aboriginal guy and he had a homemade flintlock, we were climbing jungle cliffs hacking through super dense jungle, like 3ft every 15 -20 minutes, the foilage was so dense we just sat on the trees and grass and roots on the side of the mountain and ate the inside of some betel palm that tasted like raw bamboo. Well anyways we didnt find any goats and ended up shooting trees in a small valley at the base of the mountain.flintlocks are loud!
"Cult" makes it sound antiquated, however "reason" brings to mind the age of reason, which is more modern. So it does sound odd. I'm not familiar with it's tenets though, so I will not judge. For all I know, it' could be very clever.
In the real world, the Cult of Reason is the atheist system that briefly replaced catholicism in the period ramping up to the Terreur in the French Revolution.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult_of_reason
If that's the historical reference, then it's not SMA, but I haven't seen anything about the in-game religion except its name, so I'll withhold judgement. There are no wiki pages for the new religion, or have I not looked in the right places?
Hunting goats?
Isnt that someones cattle usually? :P
This is what I assumed it was mimicking. Obviously not SMA. But nothing about Aurvandil is SMA and nothing happens about it, so whatever.
So I don't remember if this is the thread Vellos said it was super easy to become elder of the moot if you are in Terran, and its pathetic because he is right. Terran is lacking an elder even now.
The whole "honourable noble" thing where almost every character is a knight in a shiny armor who always put his honour in front of everything is much more a modern era idealization rather than an actual medieval representation.
In bm people tend to forget that for the most part, knights was just a little more than bandits with horses and steel.
The Aurvandil's "Noblesse Oblige" doesn't seem less historical accurate than the usual way noble characters are played in bm so unless you want to fully reform the way the game is played I don't think it could be considered a SMA violation
The whole "honourable noble" thing where almost every character is a knight in a shiny armor who always put his honour in front of everything is much more a modern era idealization rather than an actual medieval representation.
In bm people tend to forget that for the most part, knights was just a little more than bandits with horses and steel.
That is entirely wrong, go read some of the Chivalry prose written from the 12th century to the fourteenth or even fifteenth. Or even research the Chivalric orders, such as the Order of the Garter or the Order of the Star, both of which produced their own written codes of chivalry to instruct knights on how to conduct themselves.+1. Honor and largess were key things that differentiated rich peasants and actual nobility.
It's a more modern view that knights were simply men in flashy armour who were little better than bandits, as those who did so were reviled and outright punished in Medieval Europe.
Bad people think they're great. Rich bad people with absolute power KNOW they're great.
Nobles: people who dressed well yet were still infested with the same fleas, ticks and mites as the peasants.Pretty much.
+1I disagree with the words used by Marlboro. Everybody generally sees himself or herself as a good person, or in the right, its society that determines if they are though.
Human nature truth ftw.
We can quote all the books we want - people are corrupt and even modern day armies (or politicians/power groups) mistreat and abuse people. And "human rights" have really only been around for the last 50 or 60 years (and even the nations that "signed" onto them . . ignore them when its convenient). Prior to that they were laws meant to empower certain groups or classes of people.
Pretty much. I disagree with the words used by Marlboro. Everybody generally sees himself or herself as a good person, or in the right, its society that determines if they are though.
So who judges societies? Those societies that follow usually I suppose. . .Yeah. But this discussion does not belong in this thread.
Yeah. But this discussion does not belong in this thread.
Back to why we should wipe out the Vandils and their ilk!+1. Cracks me up how the Vandals have so many different names people call them, except the one they actually want to be called no one ever does. Terran seems to not really care about the war though so that sucks.
You know, now this is just a thought, but if you're not actually intending to fight you ought to make peace because all this continuation of an endless war does is galvanise the opinion in Aurvandil that the Veinsormoot will not accept peace by any means, by any concessions or agreement, and that leaves only violence as a resort.
Terran's demand that we pay them three thousand gold just to open up peace talks exacerbating what is now becoming a prevalent opinion in Aurvandil, and whilst Mendicant doesn't want to fight the Veinsormoot, nor even weaken them or to destroy any realm in the Veinsormoot, he won't be ruler for much longer if the Veinsormoot continues to spurn peace talks and he continues to refuse to launch military campaigns on the Veinsormoot.
If you're just going to uphold an endless war that you have no intention of either ending, or fighting, then Aurvandil is going to lash out because the current state of mass war is bad for internal affairs (Though, it has allowed Mendicant to get away with a lot of stuff that previously would have gotten him deposed, like Orthodox Astroism and Cult of Reason, or actually signing an alliance and with the Freestate no less) we don't want to keep fighting, and we don't want to be forced into a climate of constant hostility with our neighbours, which if they won't accept peace leaves their complete capitulation or destruction.
1. You hold three regions, we asked for 3,000 gold. Sounds fair.
2. How again is anything you just said supposed to convince us peace is a good idea?
"If I don't burn you to the ground soon, my people will revolt against me."
Sounds like you're dangerous neighbors, and we shouldn't be doing anything to ease up on you.
I am not sure how you convinced yourself that it's a case of I have to burn you down, or Mendicant gets deposed, but whatever. It's a case of Mendicant gets peace, or he burns you down, or he gets kicked out and is replaced by some one who will. Mendicant wants the former, which is preferable to getting kicked out or extensive warfare over the coming months against the Veinsormoot, which would be the end result of him being deposed anyway. As for dangerous neighbours, well that's a fascinating outlook but somewhat contradicted by the like five attempts at peace Mendicant's made, his refusal to wage war and his refusal to have both D'Hara and Barca taken down when they were starving and held maybe five regions between them. Yeah that's pretty dangerous, it's almost like Aurvandil genuinely doesn't want to fight you or destroy you.
You want the three regions? Try having Barca ask for them, Mendicant might be more inclined to listen. Demanding gold just to open peace talks is a sure fire way to kill any chance of peace stone dead.
A hyperviolent ruler who wants to burn down the Véinsørmoot, but who isn't named Mendicant, is better than a peaceful Mendicant, frankly.
Peace is boring. More war!
A lot of Farronite regions are protesting the Asylon war, but the FR government's still trying to salvage the alliance.
A lot of Farronite regions are protesting the Asylon war, but the FR government's still trying to salvage the alliance.Protesting the Asylon war? Do you mean the Asylon alliance?
You know, now this is just a thought, but if you're not actually intending to fight you ought to make peace because all this continuation of an endless war does is galvanise the opinion in Aurvandil that the Veinsormoot will not accept peace by any means, by any concessions or agreement, and that leaves only violence as a resort.This is what I am talking about. Barca has been reclaiming regions, D'hara has constantly been fighting-previously LN, now Falkirik, and Terran occasionally has an army sit in Paisland. If the complaint is TO's then your not talking to anybody or at least not more than one person. Barca obviously cares about getting land and I don't know where you get the idea D'hara doesn't care. I have considered sending Terran military advice, some of which I know is good because its obvious just not apparent, but not because I don't actually see Terran doing anything anymore.
Terran's demand that we pay them three thousand gold just to open up peace talks exacerbating what is now becoming a prevalent opinion in Aurvandil, and whilst Mendicant doesn't want to fight the Veinsormoot, nor even weaken them or to destroy any realm in the Veinsormoot, he won't be ruler for much longer if the Veinsormoot continues to spurn peace talks and he continues to refuse to launch military campaigns on the Veinsormoot.
If you're just going to uphold an endless war that you have no intention of either ending, or fighting, then Aurvandil is going to lash out because the current state of mass war is bad for internal affairs (Though, it has allowed Mendicant to get away with a lot of stuff that previously would have gotten him deposed, like Orthodox Astroism and Cult of Reason, or actually signing an alliance and with the Freestate no less) we don't want to keep fighting, and we don't want to be forced into a climate of constant hostility with our neighbours, which if they won't accept peace leaves their complete capitulation or destruction.
+1. Cracks me up how the Vandals have so many different names people call them, except the one they actually want to be called no one ever does. Terran seems to not really care about the war though so that sucks.
They want to be called Orvandeaux, don't they? That's the name Hireshmont usually uses.
And I don't know what you mean about Terran not caring. It's hard to do anything when neither of your allies are willing to help and you don't share a border. What's the point in invading Aurvandil if it's just going to lead to your allies bitching at you about endangering them, and if your allies aren't willing to take any regions?
You want the three regions? Try having Barca ask for them, Mendicant might be more inclined to listen. Demanding gold just to open peace talks is a sure fire way to kill any chance of peace stone dead.
I'm more inclined to think that the only peace talks will start by the renounce of Barca to the stolen regions. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Actually, I'm sure adding on an offer of yearly tribute would really get you guys moving towards peace.
Maybe we could send 30 virgins as well.
Aurvandil demanding virgins? No young boy is safe!
:p
Meanwhile, Falkirk's down to 3 regions.
Aye.
And I'll wager that Aurvandil has talked to the Zuma and found a way to ensure their non-involvement.
dun dun dun...
And Twainwood changes allegiance to Aurvandil. The reason remains unclear...
Barcan lords love defecting to Aurvandil it seems...he was probably just tired of being on the losing side, so was like, !@#$ it I might as well join Aurvandil.
he was probably just tired of being on the losing side, so was like, !@#$ it I might as well join Aurvandil.
Orders from Lychaon Abdheran (31 minutes ago)
Message sent to: Eachann Fohl
Sir Eachann,
After all this time fighting within us, is that your sense of loyalty to our realm? Is to keep your region and privileges more important to you than honour? Or has it all been a finely performed farce of an Aurvandilian spy? Our Boetarch and me have trusted you as Vice-Marshal of the Sacred Legion of Maroccia, and our Senate has given you the government of Twainwood; is that how you pay the Republic of Barca in exchange?
Now you have decided your path, show what you are!
Lychaon Abdheran
Senator of Nark
Marshal of Sacred Legion of Maroccia
____________________________
Letter from Eachann Fohl (5 minutes ago)
Marshal Lychaon,
I have never liked you and I probably never will. After all the time I have fought for Barca, I came to realize that Barca was not worth to fight for.
I joined Aurvandil on a whim. They crushed my plans, so I thought that I might as well join up with them as we shared goal. So no, I am not a spy. Sorry to disappoint you.
Julius and you trusted me as the Vice-Marshal as there were no other candidate. Same with Twainwood. So much for the trust in my skills or ability.
And do not worry; I will show you what I am capable of.
Until we meet again,
Eachann Fohl
Viscount of Twainwood
I've always maintained that if Aurvandil went head-to-head against the moot, that Aurvandil would kick the moot's ass.
But... but... D'hara! Their military genius will destroy all in their path!Can you please quit? When has D'Hara ever claimed to be military geniuses? We haven't.
Now is the time to start making bets.Nothing too new so I don't know why.
Yea bro, 68 nobles (plus your 27 Saxon fellas) against the 152 of the realms that are actively involved in the war against Aurvandil, not taking on account any Astroist realm. Indeed in 1 vs 1 combat Aurvandil does fine, but thankfully you have been doing awful diplomatic relations.We are going to most likely get our asses kicked on the western front.
Evidently the Veinsormoot are too busy manoeuvring amongst other realms to consider peace, and are too confident in the defence and resources provided by Sanguis Astroism and the overall reticence of the Commonweath to consider Aurvandil a genuine threat.
Aurvandil is passed the point of trying to preserve the territory and integrity of the Veinsormoot,
Yea bro, 68 nobles (plus your 27 Saxon fellas) against the 152 of the realms that are actively involved in the war against Aurvandil, not taking on account any Astroist realm. Indeed in 1 vs 1 combat Aurvandil does fine, but thankfully you have been doing awful diplomatic relations.
Unfortunately, everyone has their own interests. Some end where others begin, and that might spell victory for the Southrons.
Unfortunately, everyone has their own interests. Some end where others begin, and that might spell victory for the Southrons.Aka, LN doesn't give a !@#$, they are only in this war for Fissoa...
I've always maintained that if Aurvandil went head-to-head against the moot, that Aurvandil would kick the moot's ass.
Aka, LN doesn't give a !@#$, they are only in this war for Fissoa...
Aka, LN doesn't give a !@#$, they are only in this war for Fissoa...
Oh, most definitely. Moot vs. Aurvandil it'll be Aurvandil every time.
Nothing too new so I don't know why.
Everything else aside, Terran and D'Hara have pretty much zero reason to continue fighting if Barca defects. I mean, D'Hara is intact, Terran is intact, and most of the rhetoric was over reclaiming Barcan regions, yet Twainwood defected. OOC, I simply don't see this lasting much longer.
Rynn would rather be fighting Lurians anyway. That's the cool thing to do.
Yea bro, 68 nobles (plus your 27 Saxon fellas) against the 152 of the realms that are actively involved in the war against Aurvandil, not taking on account any Astroist realm. Indeed in 1 vs 1 combat Aurvandil does fine, but thankfully you have been doing awful diplomatic relations.
Nope, I didn't. Live today to fight another. And contrarily to your rounds, I checked the realm list before writing; 72 is the current amount after the last deflections. Congratulations, you can be proud to be host of the greatest amount of traitors in Dwilight!You seem rather bitter over this whole war. Defectors are something that has always happened in war. Some people always put wealth over loyalty. I think some of the lords honestly think that aurvandil will be more fun to play with. I, for one, would be part of morek right now if I didn't value loyalty.
Of course nobody likes to renounce to the government of a region just to keep clean honour. And you are so thirsty of new servants that don't even mind to openly boast about your new acquisitions. I'm sure they'll do fine as long as things go well for Aurvandil.
Diplomatic isolation can be perfectly compensated by fighting just wars you know you can win and so keep happy your realm-mates, I admit you've done a good work there.
Can you please quit? When has D'Hara ever claimed to be military geniuses? We haven't.
Um...how about every single time Chénier speaks about the war with Luria?
If you don't like what he says, go tell him to shut up, but don't try to pretend it doesn't exist so you can be rude to others.
You seem rather bitter over this whole war. Defectors are something that has always happened in war. Some people always put wealth over loyalty. I think some of the lords honestly think that aurvandil will be more fun to play with. I, for one, would be part of morek right now if I didn't value loyalty.
Claiming the Lurias are inept is not the same as claiming that D'Hara is brillant.
I never claimed D'Hara had glorious awe-inspiring armies. I just repeatedly claimed that the Lurias' performances were pathetic.
Um...how about every single time Chénier speaks about the war with Luria?Thats not D'hara claiming to be military geniuses, that's Chenier, a priest, pointlessly arguing about whether or not LN was inept.
If you don't like what he says, go tell him to shut up, but don't try to pretend it doesn't exist so you can be rude to others.
That's definitely the way to get the opposition to Aurvandil divided and lose the war. The Greeks got united to fight the Persians, even Athenians and Spartans! :D
IG messages beg to differ. When D'hara defeated the one or two Solarian nobles that attacked Sallowwild they boasted of the victory far and wide. Stop and listen everytime D'hara wins a battle. It doesn't happen often but just listen.
Also if LN's performance was pathetic, what does that make D'hara's? I remember this realm they sent military aid to, Luria Vesperi. What happened to them?
You both sucked in the "war".
IG messages beg to differ. When D'hara defeated the one or two Solarian nobles that attacked Sallowwild they boasted of the victory far and wide. Stop and listen everytime D'hara wins a battle. It doesn't happen often but just listen.
Also if LN's performance was pathetic, what does that make D'hara's? I remember this realm they sent military aid to, Luria Vesperi. What happened to them?
They could join as observers. ;)I don't think its ever been considered but I don't actually know why they couldn't join as full members.
Because they do not embrace the "Republican" style of government, do they? I mean, I thought that they were pretty much a tyranny with Haktoo as absolute ruler.Well that doesn't mean it can't change, that and the Zuma could just say they are running a republic style of government, and we just believe them as we have no way to actually prove it, like we can with other realms.
Because they do not embrace the "Republican" style of government, do they? I mean, I thought that they were pretty much a tyranny with Haktoo as absolute ruler.
hmmm... I suppose we don't technically require that it be a republic of HUMANS...
But no, I don't think they could qualify as republican.
So, how 'bout that Fissoa/Astrum game?
It was wonderful battle! A magnificent victory!... It was a shame it wasn't against the correct army! ;D
That's not really something we've ever done as an official policy. Not in any concerted manner. There have been a few individual incidents, but nothing big.
Something I don't get... now that all of SA is united against Aurvandil, and that Orvandil houses a religion that has been declared to be evil and heretical... Where are all the SA priests? Why aren't they sneaking into Aurvandil, preaching and causing trouble?
'Tis true. I can't argue against that. But that kind of thing would be the bailiwick of the office of the Maddening Star. If you want it to happen, talk to Rabisu.
Preaching unrest in Aurvandil would be the office of the Maddening... but preaching unrest would have little effect if there weren't already a fair number of Astroists in the regions. And converting peasantry - missionary work - is the office of the Auspicious. And really, neither is going to happen without either the permission of Aurvandil, or the support of Astroist military forces. So there's that.
Rabisu sucks, someone replace him already! >:(
AS of now, the person to replace him would be Jonsu. :P
Okay, Rabisu can stay for now.
Okay, Rabisu can stay for now.
AS of now, the person to replace him would be Jonsu. :P
There is a charter revision coming up ;D
There's been a charter revision coming up for forever.
*grumbles about people always being in a rush*
I've got to finish writing a paper about the determinants of student achievement in Kentucky public high schools. It's rivetting. Maybe when I finish that I'll get around to the exhilerating task of charter reform.
I have nothing but free time if you want help with it.
There are 'moot armies. That can give enough cover to start some preaching
Okay, Rabisu can stay for now.
Somehow I feel like Jonsu's help would not be entirely productive.
Don't you dare let Jonsu anywhere near that charter... you'll probably have three schisms inside a week. Srsly, she's the biggest threat to SA that we've ever had. Worse than Allison...
Oh god... Stabbity... no don't let him go near anything. It seems where-ever he goes, he brings nothing but misfortune and ruin :o
Oh god please let her near the charters!!!!+1
+1
Also, did anyone else get the message that D'Hara and Luria Nova successfully fought a battle together...against someone else?! o_0
More than once! Falkirkians just won't die. Would I be mistaken to assume we have an archer-heavy army?
That is classified.
I thought it was chicken soup that was good for the soul.
You can put chicken soup in the preparation used to prepare a chicken pie.
Then you bake the pie, cut it in small parts, and boil these parts in broth. That creates a chicken soup pie soup. I believe the tibetan word for that is "nirvana".
I am sure Astrum will come marching down soon preventing us spreading our anti-soup ideology.
Ishalur too maybe, but i am curious to see how their rebellion goes. Maybe their new ruler is Anti-soup aswell(but i doubt it).
Isn't it a bit premature to assume that there will be a new ruler for Iashalur?
We personally do not want to war Terran as much as we really want to war D'Hara. The problem being distance and Terran in the way. Perhaps in a few days Terran will be willing to throw D'Hara under the bus to save their hides and nullify their alliance as a mere formality. Interesting how things turn out.
Good, finally an excuse to chop down all of the bloodmoon fruit trees that rot your minds!
You focus on chopping down trees and we'll focus on the war effort.
The choices you made in the last war have made it clear what choices we had to make in this war.Its over for you guys in more ways than you know.
The choices you made in the last war have made it clear what choices we had to make in this war.Its over for you guys in more ways than you know.You have a completely irrational opinion of that war, so please, quit talking about it.
Terran shall need to gird their loins, the Barcan campaign proved their army is too small, too poorly lead and too slow to even remotely challenge Aurvandil in the field.
We personally do not want to war Terran as much as we really want to war D'Hara. The problem being distance and Terran in the way. Perhaps in a few days Terran will be willing to throw D'Hara under the bus to save their hides and nullify their alliance as a mere formality. Interesting how things turn out.AFAIK, thats just Glaumring BS and not truth.
How DARE we not let foreign realms dictate our foreign policies, right? XD
Because we ever thought otherwise?
We've just been trying to survive the aggression of Aurvandil this whole time. Duh you all are bigger.
EDIT: Also, WTF Asylon!? Out of the freaking blue. Man I hope Astrum is bored.
I thought that was the point of alliances, to give suggestions and work together towards a common goal... Oh I forgot, Alliances under your definition are used to prop you up and save your ass.
AFAIK, thats just Glaumring BS and not truth.
Sadly it is truth...
The common goal was the prevention of Kabrinskian expansionism. We were all united behind that.
But when it came to Asylonian expansionism... Yea, no. :P
Shot yourself in the toe on that one. If we had destroyed Kabrinskia we'd have Terran and Asylon with lands all the way up to Golden Farrow, a united strong army, a strong alliance and when it came to either the Astroists and or Aurvandiil we would be able to make our own independent decisions. Instead you chose to bring foreigners into your court, turn your back on your fellow brothers of the west and eventually lead to a choice where the Moot will be utterly destroyed in a short period of time. You might be good at politics and signing alliances but you blow at long term strategy...
Just wait till Rynn's wife finds out about this...
EDIT: Also, WTF Asylon!? Out of the freaking blue. Man I hope Astrum is bored.
Because we ever thought otherwise?
We've just been trying to survive the aggression of Aurvandil this whole time. Duh you all are bigger.
EDIT: Also, WTF Asylon!? Out of the freaking blue. Man I hope Astrum is bored.
Allison Kabrinski, Mendicant and Glaumring all on one team... You ain't seen nothing yet.
What about the almost eerily simultaneously timed revolt in Iashalur? Was that foreseen? :P
Anyways, just glad that something is actually happening up here that have the possibility of validating our existence.
How should any of that be surprising... You've been buddies forever.
Mendicant and Allison have been far from "buddies", considering most of their communication used to consist of mutual scorn and threats until quite recently when they realised they could amicably work together.
Remember when D'Hara and Asylon were trying to get Aurvandiil to land in Terran so they could attack north into Kabrinskia but Terran wouldn't allow it... Those were such simple times. ::)
You see that we signed an alliance with asylum...
That you did... That you did ;)That's the thing about being lazy and playing on your iPhone. It thinks it knows how to spell better than me.
Asylum is a place of safety a place of rest a calm grove, an orchard.
Isn't it a bit premature to assume that there will be a new ruler for Iashalur?
Or, you know, this.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/insane+asylum
No, there certainly will be a new ruler. The burning question is whether he'll able to keep the throne.
Aurvandil wouldn't have to be aggressive if you weren't hell bent on a suicidal war against us.
It only required a brief discussion on its possibility, as Aurvandil could have fielded its armies against Kabrinskia if we chose to.
No, there certainly will be a new ruler. The burning question is whether he'll able to keep the throne.
Busy.
I be on spring break yo.
I have time to bitch people out with brevity, little more.
Im not sure. Ven is a super player. It was a huge loss for Dwilight herleaving/dying/murderedLawfully Executed byChenierthe relevant authorities.
Im not sure. Ven is a super player. It was a huge loss for Dwilight her leaving/dying/murdered by Chenier.
Lawful by D'Haran standards. That doesn't mean other realms recognize your laws.
You don't think it would be common courtesy to tell someone why you're attacking them? How else do you expect to achieve your goals? Unless your goal is just to have a war (and if that's what you want, then go for it), you may be able to get what you want rather quickly.
Please learn to differentiate IC and OOC. The character was executed in a manner that was entirely within the game's parameter and for IC reasons. Your characters may not agree with these reasons, and that's good RP.
Ven was not executed out of spite against Dhalgren's player. Don't insinuate that it was; that's insulting.
I made no insinuation. Whats your problem?
Im not sure. Ven is a super player. It was a huge loss for Dwilight her leaving/dying/murdered by Chenier.
I'm not saying that you should say OOC what the reason is, if you're not providing it IC. I was really talking IC. It seems really weird that you would declare war without stating your reasons and/or demands.
There's no double standard here. I would think that declaring war on someone would bring things to a whole new level. Did Morek ignore and refuse to talk to Asylon, and then declare war without telling anyone why? Did Astrum, or Caerwyn?
You need to get over the persecution complex. I'm trying to have a reasonable, polite conversation with someone. The last thing we need is you barging in with all your historical baggage and trying to start a flame-fest.
Yea, I hear you. But there are several reasons, all of the sort that I rather not make them public on ForumMaster. Thoose few that Grimrog trusts or respects has been given some of the reasons, not all. For Grimrog this war is far more complicated then a simple "We want region X a region Y"-type of war. Or a religious war for that matter, Asylon do not fight against any faith, we welcome all faiths.
So I understand that this might be slightly frustrating for some and annoying that I'm not really playing the game the way alot of other people do. Or that my character dosent openly explains his reasons and plans to characters he never exhange letters with until now.
After all, Grimrogs pride was very much hurt when only 3-4 regents congratulated him on his crown and rise to the throne ;).
Rogues are rogues whatever realm you belong to.
In most cases yes, but in this case Lady Ven willingly took off the crest of Asylon as she was on a religious quest. Obviously it isn't ideal but a rogue is not always in that state because of criminal activity. Yes, this means she was no longer under protection of a realm but some characters might still have certain humanitarian or religious standards that fall outside of realm laws or lead to various interpretations on the justness or unjustness in how said laws are applied.
You can keep arguing this all day but it is pretty pointless. My character doesn't have to recognize the laws of D'Hara as legitimate, that is just the way it is. Saying that we cannot interpret the actions of D'Hara as unjust because it was lawful by D'Haran standards is a silly retort.
IC how would you have known a player is a rogue? Like seriously she could have just lied and said she was any nation, no noble would say they were rogue if they knew death was the result and if D'Hara had asked us who this noble was we would have said she was of Asylon. The mechanism is flawed.
IC how would you have known a player is a rogue? Like seriously she could have just lied and said she was any nation, no noble would say they were rogue if they knew death was the result and if D'Hara had asked us who this noble was we would have said she was of Asylon. The mechanism is flawed.She was not killed just because she was a rogue. She was arrested for breaking D'haran law, which is you can only preach with permission from the regional lord, and she preached several times IIRC after being told to stop, thus she was arrested. She then was roleplaying Ven as being in an extremely terrible condition due to the blood fruit, thus the judge saw it as taking pity on her by executing her because her condition was that bad. Any roleplay about Ven's body being fine, does not count as roleplay, as it was already established by the player of Ven, that she was in terrible condition.
Well, from an IC point of view we have no way of knowing what happened.No Asylon nobles were there at the time so can only speculate that the D'Hara judge was responsible for the whole thing.Actually Glaumring has already been told about exactly what I said already. The IG Glaumring that is.
Before the execution or after?After.
Quite pointless in that case. More of a mockery.If we executed some D'Hara nobles and informed you after saying they were crazy, I doubt you would like that.Why would inform Glaumring about considering executing a pitiful thing for a human, that isn't even a member of his realm?We also never claimed crazyness. Glaumring whined in Dwi univerisity so he was informed through that. It wasn't like we executed Ven, and then went btw, I heard you care about this rogue so just to let you know, we executed her.
Why would inform Glaumring about considering executing a pitiful thing for a human, that isn't even a member of his realm?We also never claimed crazyness. Glaumring whined in Dwi univerisity so he was informed through that. It wasn't like we executed Ven, and then went btw, I heard you care about this rogue so just to let you know, we executed her.
I understand that you think Chénier wanted for the player of Ven to leave Dwilight. I'm sure that wasn't the case. The character is gone, the player isn't.
The actions of our characters are not personal attacks. It's just a game. Sometimes characters will die.
If I read too much into it, sorry. It's probably not what you meant, but it's how I read it.
Truth. Even Rynn felt bad for her. It pretty much was a Passion of the Ven scene. The Judge tripple checked with Rynn before executing her, which Rynn then explain to Glaum and Brom (not a bad sitcom idea, btw).
In fact, the incident she sparked very nearly saw bloodmoon fruit and the religion it spawned banned in D'Hara. Rynn stepped on that.
Why would inform Glaumring about considering executing a pitiful thing for a human, that isn't even a member of his realm?We also never claimed crazyness. Glaumring whined in Dwi univerisity so he was informed through that. It wasn't like we executed Ven, and then went btw, I heard you care about this rogue so just to let you know, we executed her.
Perhaps we'll get our chance to execute some crazy D'Harans soon! ;DAnother BS part of that incident. Ven was not an Asylonian but a rogue.
'Whined' no wonder dealing with you guys is always so pleasant. WankersWhined, slandering D'hara, its all the same.
Exactly that rude attitude IC as well.What did I say that you find rude?
Can we please talk about something else? I'd rather not this thread get locked too.Bring up a topic.
Everything.Well than I guess I will just continue to be rude. If you stated something specific that I said was rude or why everything was rude, I could see a point/ actually get something out of it to change so that I am not viewed as rude but just saying everything I say is rude, doesn't help in anyway.
Can we please talk about something else? I'd rather not this thread get locked too.
FWIW the player of Ven does still have a character on Dwilight. The character name is Aristobulous, or something like that.
FWIW the player of Ven does still have a character on Dwilight. The character name is Aristobulous, or something like that.What realm?
Aurvandil. Started near the end of January, almost two months ago.
Aurvandil. Started near the end of January, almost two months ago.Looks like the next Dhalgren needs to die. ;)
whew... At least we know Aurvandiil has one good roleplayer... ;)I hear Luria Nova has several really good ones too. D'hara's is probably Rynn, though Ghaundan does some good stuff too-they are the only two I can think of off the top of my head anyways.
....
Asides from that our anger was that D'Hara killed our head priest and member of Asylon.
She was not a member of Asylon, hence she was able to be executed.
You should keep better track of your prophet. ;)
You should keep better track of your prophet. ;)
Mmmm.... martyrs... every religion needs a good supply them ready for the making.Any actual reason?
Mmmm.... martyrs... every religion needs a good supply them ready for the making.
Where's Aurvandil glaumring? ;D
Very interesting. I see some flaws, but its not like its going to be easy to find a picture that perfectly represents a realm. Thanks for the pics.
For one I think mendicant is the only cav in the entire aurvandil army
Yeah thats a better representation of the Barcans!
I want Asylon to be like tattoed woad covered picts or celts with Gaul and germanic tribe mix. Barbarian Viking mix.
Yeah thats a better representation of the Barcans!
I want Asylon to be like tattoed woad covered picts or celts with Gaul and germanic tribe mix. Barbarian Viking mix.
Mendicant will be horrified when he finally meets them.
Mendicant will be horrified when he finally meets them.
Mendicant will be horrified when he finally meets them.
Yes, a war/battle with Asylon would have been fun.
However, what they did was smart. Diverting Terran North with their looting so that Aurvandil could land unopposed in the South achieved them a quick and total victory. It also, importantly, preserved their forces, which will benefit them as they still have yet to repel Astrum and the Golden Farrow.
Had they attempted a more blunt strategy, Terran could have inflicted casualties, either by interrupting Aurvandil's landing or by defeating Asylon on the field. This strategy they chose rendered Terran totally helpless.
Yes, a war/battle with Asylon would have been fun.
However, what they did was smart. Diverting Terran North with their looting so that Aurvandil could land unopposed in the South achieved them a quick and total victory. It also, importantly, preserved their forces, which will benefit them as they still have yet to repel Astrum and the Golden Farrow.
Had they attempted a more blunt strategy, Terran could have inflicted casualties, either by interrupting Aurvandil's landing or by defeating Asylon on the field. This strategy they chose rendered Terran totally helpless.
For you, perhaps. Though you're about to lose an ally.
We couldn't have done much of anything to stop Aurvandil no matter what. We field 12,000 CS max. No way we could stop Aurvandil's full force even if we wanted.
We could have reinforced the two most likely landing spots (Larur and Gretchew) inflicting heavy casualties on Aurvandil when they disembarked. It's also possible that we could have prevented their advance Northwards by fortifying Chesland. Remember, transporting siege engines over seas is expensive, so it's unlikely that Aurvandil's army has many of them; even low level fortifications like those in Chesland could make a difference. A combination of those two tactics could also work. Deploy 6,000 CS in both Larur and Gretchew to inflict casualties upon the event of Aurvandil's landfall, then, in that contingency, have them retreat after low casualties and fall back to Chesland with a bunch of militia waiting to support them. Had things gone well, Terran could have mounted a competent defence. At the least it could have caused some attrition to Aurvandil and prevented their strike from being a fatal blow.
As for Asylon engaging Terran's army. That is simply not a good idea for them. They don't need to engage Terran's army in order to hurt Terran. They merely need to loot the Northern lands, causing economic damage and drawing Terran's armies Northwards to allow Aurvandil to land unopposed. As it is, both Asylon and Aurvandil will suffer minimal casualties while Terran will suffer tremendous economic damage and be placed in a horrible strategic position, what with her entire army shadowing Asylon's in a futile chase in the far North, in the winter no less. Basically Terran has been placed in disarray and her enemies are now able to pick her apart at their leisure. It was a very good move on their part and well orchestrated too, as Noblesse said they've pulled off every step of their plan without a hitch.
Having Asylon raid Terran, withdraw and deny battle forcing Terran to advance on them was the plan from the start, alongside provoking Terran to attack Aurvandil in our own regions so we could defeat their army (As we hoped they would when we camped in Twainwood for four days waiting for them) force them to slowly refit with heavy casualties and captured nobles just before the turning of winter to give Asylon the maximum possible chance of success in a campaign against Terran. Almost worryingly Terran did everything Mendicant wanted them to do every step of the way since the start of the attack on Barca up until this point.
It's always nice when everything goes as intended.
Just for the record, the offensive into Aurvandil had been in planning for over a month. It may have been what you had hoped we would do, sure. But we had already made the decision to do it before you invaded Barca.
Again, it would matter little in the end. No, Aurvandil and Asylon are not strategic masterminds to realize that having 4 times the Nobles count and being on opposite ends of Terran will result in an easy victory. It simply is not a winnable or sustainable war for Terran. Or anyone. Regardless of it we had the greatest General on the face of the planet. You can't win a BM war when your enemy has over 100 nobles between two realms, one in your North and one in your South. BM wars just don't work like that.
Sure, like I said, we could have prepped and engaged Aurvandil and caused some causulties, but it would have only been an inconvenience to Aurvandil. They are far to strong, to numerous, and to well organized for it to ultimately make a difference.
Also, I never said it was smart for Asylon to engage us, I said it was ultimately irrelevant to Terran's fate. The result would be the same: we would be unable to properly engage Aurvandil (even if we wanted to) whether they engaged us or not.
Terran has been a circus for months. There is a reason nobody runs for Chief Magistrate.
Quintus hasn't rebelled because he would feel kinda sorta bad screwing over Hireshmont and Kale, but it's just as much that I don't have time to take a bigger role in Terran (assuming Quintus would even win, which is doubful given that Terran consists of a half-dozen blocs of four nobles each).
At any rate, long past due for somebody to steamroll their way in there.
Agreed.Me thinks Terran should spread the word they need a real ruler. Marco would be interested. (Can't do worse than those before him.)
If I thought Falkirk was in any danger, I'd have sent everything Aurvandil has to defend them. Besides which, Aurvandil still has armies nearby if they're needed, we're not so clumsy as to throw everything against Terran, especially when we don't need to.
I'll believe all the nonsense about Falkirk falling when I see it. But Lex and his Averothoi don't fall easily and not to the level of foe presented to them currently.
Me thinks Terran should spread the word they need a real ruler. Marco would be interested. (Can't do worse than those before him.)
The problem, as Scarlett's character in Terran has alluded to many times, is that the position is pretty redundant and powerless. I suppose unless someone with a very big personality got in there. Even then, it would be frustrating for them.I'd be making more gold as ruler of Terran. I am used to the rather thankless positions. Foreign relations/diplomacy, I see many failures in Hireshmont's foreign relation activities, thus he can keep doing his thing, and I would do everything I think he should be doing, but isn't. Obviously we can't be talking to the same person about the same thing, though same person with topics different enough they warrant separate people doing the talking, could be fine sometimes. I love the diplomacy aspect, but I have been playing Marco in such a way, that Ambassador he will never aspire to be, but ruler, even if it is primarily powerless except for diplomacy, he could aspire to be.
The realm is run by the Senate, and specifically those Senators who care to contribute, which means the Chief Magistrate's job is primarily foreign relations/diplomacy.... however, that is mostly de facto dominated by Hireshmont and the Elder representation in the 'Moot.
It's a thankless position with little point and not much fun. Plus you lose your landed title.
I think Terran has some good candidates in our current election. One real dud, one steady hand, and one unknown: here's hoping for the steady hand!Terran is !@#$ed again in the ruler department. Anyone outside of Terran ever heard of Maloudi? Me thinks not. Ruler, especially when their only real power is foreign relations, should be known outside of his realm, IMO. Not going to claim Marco is a legend but he has been in every almost every realm and speaks with people while he travels, due to his business he is on, so Marco is likely known by members of every realm.
Vote Maloudi!
Out of curiosity, did Terran even try contacting Farronite or Astrum and ask for help? I, for one, had no idea things were going so bad for Terran. We never heard any details about Asylon's invasion.
Terran is !@#$ed again in the ruler department. Anyone outside of Terran ever heard of Maloudi? Me thinks not. Ruler, especially when their only real power is foreign relations, should be known outside of his realm, IMO. Not going to claim Marco is a legend but he has been in every almost every realm and speaks with people while he travels, due to his business he is on, so Marco is likely known by members of every realm.
Actually, having a known ruler is a very, very bad thing when your long-term rivals are about to destroy you and your long-term allies can't or won't help you.Well I disagree, for several reasons. What is your reasoning for an unknown to be made ruler?/A known being bad?
A known ruler is a horrible idea at that point.
Well I disagree, for several reasons. What is your reasoning for an unknown to be made ruler?/A known being bad?
Also, random people start flaming each other for no reason. Kas accidently travelled to Overroot and everyone started insulting him and accusing him of things, then they banned him. Shino kept on getting shouted down every time he said some minor thing. Erasmus was insulted and banned because he was executing peasants or something. Everyone who does anything is basically painting a target on themselves in that realm.I thought what you were saying might have been valid until I read you see Erasmus as doing nothing wrong. You lose all credit if you don't know why he got banned.
Then there's the lethargic army, where only five people follow orders willingly. The rest have to be threatened with fines. There are random starvations, too. I get that Terran is volatile in the food department, but in the past regions (Mistight, Chesland) have been completely depopulated through starvation. And for some reason there's always monsters attacking Odona :(
Yeah Terran's been doomed for a long time. If it weren't for it's alliances it would probably have fallen sooner.
Known people have baggage. And Terran needs to shed a lot of baggage in record time.Known, does not equal been ruler already. Ex-rulers are known people, but that doesn't mean that only ex-rulers are known. As to what you think Terran needs, I don't know the internal things that some pointless figurehead is really going to help out Terran. As to your second, Marco could be that person but I don't have the time to make that happen. Also Marco is more of semi-known, he knows people minorly but generally always having good relations.
Plus, as a player, I hate seeing the same players become rulers all the time. Yeah, Terran has had some crappy rulers. But I don't regret it a bit: it's meant that a ton of players who've never gotten to have a rulership anywhere else have had a chance to experience it.
For an RP perspective, Terran is a realm with an extremely powerful upper-level bureaucracy. Terran only works effectively with a ruler who can either serve as a moral center for the realm but who has no particular political interests, or else a ruler who is of titanic strength, will, and political acumen and can break the will of the elites.
I know of only 2 or 3 nobles who might be able to achieve the latter, so we roll with the former.
Known, does not equal been ruler already. Ex-rulers are known people, but that doesn't mean that only ex-rulers are known. As to what you think Terran needs, I don't know the internal things that some pointless figurehead is really going to help out Terran. As to your second, Marco could be that person but I don't have the time to make that happen. Also Marco is more of semi-known, he knows people minorly but generally always having good relations.
Um, internal figureheads are very, very important. They set the tone for the realm. Kas did an excellent job at that for a little while... then he turned into a Glaumring-clone.So is diplomacy. I see extreme failures on Terran's part. They did great getting the north to join, but beyond that its been downhill. Sure you have convinced then to suicide their army south, but there are a lot of other things they could do, that actually help, especially now. Also, I see your point on ruler's setting the mood, but that doesn't mean they should do nothing but help out realm morale.
So is diplomacy. I see extreme failures on Terran's part. They did great getting the north to join, but beyond that its been downhill. Sure you have convinced then to suicide their army south, but there are a lot of other things they could do, that actually help, especially now.
I thought what you were saying might have been valid until I read you see Erasmus as doing nothing wrong. You lose all credit if you don't know why he got banned.
Um, internal figureheads are very, very important. They set the tone for the realm. Kas did an excellent job at that for a little while... then he turned into a Glaumring-clone.
Was it because he ran an international gang of peasant hunters? That was pretty cool, imo, and would have fleshed Terran out had it stayed and been elaborated upon. Terran could have been the evil nation that promotes privateering, smuggling, slavery and all sorts of vile activities. Terran needs something to give it character, as one of it's main flaws is that it doesn't have a strong, unifying theme, other than a vague Roman thing, to get people active. It's a blank canvas, waiting to be painted, or torn down and replaced with something new. Erasmus was a good roleplayer, he could have painted it and saved it from destruction, had he not been immediately banned the moment his unorthodox activity was unveiled.You thinking Erasmus was banned over the peasant killings proves my point. You don't even know what goes on in your own realm, even when the game is giving you the important messages on the topic.
Kas only became 'glumring' because everyone was insulting him. I saw private messages where he was called an idiot and even the realm-wide channel was full of people bashing him.
This amuses me.Maybe not extreme but still a failure. Will edit in stuff.
Please, tell me more about Terran's extreme diplomatic failure.
You thinking Erasmus was banned over the peasant killings proves my point. You don't even know what goes on in your own realm, even when the game is giving you the important messages on the topic.
Well, would you care to enlighten me? It happened shortly after I joined, so you need to give me a break here. I barely knew who everyone was at that point, let alone what their histories or private dealings were. As far as I could tell, it was revealed that he was killing peasants and was banned, not before leaving a nice RP message about how he and his troops were travelling to Zuma lands.Well that's a good thing to mention earlier. He was banning anybody who disagreed with him once his organization was put out in the open. His advy killing was bad for the realm's reputation, but the bigger issue was he had a spy network !@#$ing !@#$ up in Solaria I believe. People complained, and he basically tried to become a tyrant of the senate by banning those who disagreed with him. My info is probably flawed, but is more towards the actual reasons.
Well that's a good thing to mention earlier. He was banning anybody who disagreed with him once his organization was put out in the open. His advy killing was bad for the realm's reputation, but the bigger issue was he had a spy network !@#$ing !@#$ up in Solaria I believe. People complained, and he basically tried to become a tyrant of the senate by banning those who disagreed with him. My info is probably flawed, but is more towards the actual reasons.
Now I remember the spy thing. But by the time he started banning people it was already clear that he would be kicked out. Plus, it was a pretty entertaining drama. It was the kind of conflict that this game should have more of, and it was only possible because he was willing to let himself be vilified. Villains = good.I think everyone would agree it was good, but you can't expect villains to not be punished.
Also, random people start flaming each other for no reason. Kas accidently travelled to Overroot and everyone started insulting him and accusing him of things, then they banned him.
If groups of people operated differently, people could have joined up with him and created the malignant state that I mentioned earlier. Unfortunately, everyone wants to play the hero, so he was fired and instead I get to witness canned self-righteousness... oh joy.
The problem, as Scarlett's character in Terran has alluded to many times, is that the position is pretty redundant and powerless. I suppose unless someone with a very big personality got in there. Even then, it would be frustrating for them.
The realm is run by the Senate, and specifically those Senators who care to contribute, which means the Chief Magistrate's job is primarily foreign relations/diplomacy.... however, that is mostly de facto dominated by Hireshmont and the Elder representation in the 'Moot.
It's a thankless position with little point and not much fun. Plus you lose your landed title.
And now Mendicant quotes my forum posts at Hireshmont in letters explaining why he doesn't believe Hireshmont is serious about the surrender...
Whoop-dee-doo.
Terran is !@#$ed again in the ruler department. Anyone outside of Terran ever heard of Maloudi? Me thinks not. Ruler, especially when their only real power is foreign relations, should be known outside of his realm, IMO. Not going to claim Marco is a legend but he has been in every almost every realm and speaks with people while he travels, due to his business he is on, so Marco is likely known by members of every realm.
I think everyone would agree it was good, but you can't expect villains to not be punished.
For an RP perspective, Terran is a realm with an extremely powerful upper-level bureaucracy. Terran only works effectively with a ruler who can either serve as a moral center for the realm but who has no particular political interests, or else a ruler who is of titanic strength, will, and political acumen and can break the will of the elites.
Now I remember the spy thing. But by the time he started banning people it was already clear that he would be kicked out. Plus, it was a pretty entertaining drama. It was the kind of conflict that this game should have more of, and it was only possible because he was willing to let himself be vilified. Villains = good.
This is a completely inaccurate rendition of what happened.
Yeah, Kas traveled into Overroot and engaged the Zuma and it was probably an accident. However, for several reasons it was a big deal.
1) Most obviously is risked a ZUMA !@#$STORM INVADE TERRAN which has happened before.
2) It came very eerily after he had been reporting on himself contacting Haktoo trying to garner some kind of Zuma aid.
3) Also eerily after he was messaging the Strategium about some grand plan to win the war in one fell swoop by swinging the army around through Zuma lands.
4) It has been the, for some time now, an unofficial rule of Terran foreign policy to remain completely apathetic toward the Zuma. That is: to ignore them completely and utterly. Because the first era or two of Terran's history of trying to interact with them always lead to bad things happening.
5) Kas had already been stirring up tensions by trying to make power grabs and suggesting he was going to try to change the government form to allow him to appoint Lords, etc. instead of elections. Both Kale and Quintus were heavily put off by this.
Despite all of this, Kas would have been fine had he just said "Sorry, accident, I apologized to Haktoo, now I'm heading back to the Chateau to get another unit." Unfortunately, he did choose that course of action. He proceeded to make up excuses, glorify Haktoo in front of Senate, and then when he came under some heat, completely lost all of his composure and started basically name calling everyone in the realm, accusing people of corruption, etc., and finally by messaging the rulers of Dwilight with an incredibly treasonous message about the 'shadow gov't' of Terran run by "the Dukes." As if a realm's Dukes and long time members being significant and influential power players in a realm is some kind of surprise.
He was not banned for running into Zuma territory. It was his complete and utter failure to handle criticism and the resulting breakdown that saw him lose power.
Good RP is not ever a good enough reason to keep someone from getting what they deserve IC.
I have seen far, far too many nobles whose public RP makes quite clear that they are insane, evil, depraved, or just plain disgusting who get given high positions and allowed to continue doing whatever horrible things they're doing just because people think that their RP is good.
You know what this means? It means that the RP of everyone around them is very bad.
Villains should totally be punished. Even if that means you lose their good RP.
The only other reasonable option is for those around them to explicitly accept and endorse their villainy, and thus join them in it.
He was a villain right up until the moment that he (and his OOC buddies) got caught, and then he was just another griefer, kinda-sorta abusing game mechanics to exact revenge. Don't confuse villainy with being a troll, or being chronically predisposed to betraying your own team.
That's a matter of opinion.
Mine is that RPing the hero, or the status quo maintainer, is boring and that players should strive towards more exciting things.
Punishing the 'villain,' from a character's practical standpoint, doesn't make much sense when the villainy only is of no personal detriment.
Erasmus was in conflict with Solaria and some peasants, which isn't much reason for the common nobles of Terran to care. One could say that it was damaging relations with Solaria, but I don't buy that explanation in a medieval setting.
Other instances of crazy or malicious characters gaining power are perfectly fine from a realism standpoint. Crazies are easy to manipulate and the malicious are probably sociopaths willing to lie, cheat and bribe their way to success. It actually makes more sense for them to gain power than for the goody-two-shoes, altruistic big brother types.
Ah, but you see a lot of that stuff could only be known to the highest echelons of the realm. From my point of view the debacle was solely about him making his misclick and half heartedly proposing a power grab.
It was a pretty classic case of power-mad tantrum: ineffective lever-pulling (protesting Kale?), conspiracy theories, shouting. But then it was a wonder that the guy was ever put in charge to begin with.
Character family name is Mayhem, right?He is talking about Erasmus I believe, not Kas.
Methinks that may have been a clue....
He is talking about Erasmus I believe, not Kas.
He was a villain right up until the moment that he (and his OOC buddies) got caught, and then he was just another griefer, kinda-sorta abusing game mechanics to exact revenge. Don't confuse villainy with being a troll, or being chronically predisposed to betraying your own team. ;)
Can you please explain how I, the player of Erasmus, abused game mechanics?
Not sure what you mean by "being chronically predisposed to betraying your own team" but I'll say that Erasmus never did anything to betray Terran (excluding his distrust and attempts to discredit Hireshemont near the end, which he saw as trying to help/save Terran) until after he felt he was betrayed by them due to all the threats and protests engineered by Hireshmont; his info was used to help Terran and D'Hara, the "spy network" was a one-way street into the Senate and Strategium of Terran--rarely used and usually unknowingly by the people he got the info from, and his other "activities" of torture and murder were pretty well known and tolerated in Terran for quite a while, including by the Chief Magistrate. I don't deny the griefing (if you mean destroying granaries/renaming recruitment centers in his region when it became apparent they were gonna ban him and try to kill him) to get revenge, though, and still have (or had, now that I hear Terran is getting jacked up badly right now) plans for more against Hireshemont and his guys ;) BUT, I didn't see any of that as abuse, and it seemed like something the character would do out of spite and hatred.
And, Kas was ruler of Terran?!? I'm sorry I missed that, that guy always said the funnest and craziest things :)
Can you please explain how I, the player of Erasmus, abused game mechanics?
I will say that the whole incident with Erasmus was a lot of fun. Everyone knew he did some weird torture stuff with advys, but we all just kind of looked the other way because Erasmus was a competent judge and noble in the realm who contributed. Then all of the info coming out about the Hunters of the Sacred Right, etc. was really interesting, turned into this big thing, and then the power struggle to remove a Judge was pretty epic.
The Erasmus debacle was a lot of fun and I think it remained fairly free of any hard OOC feelings, which is always great.
Using elections to hop around from vacant lordship to lordship to avoid being banned under the "new lord" protections. Wasn't there an entire thread about this?
Terran always seemed to me a realm set up to sort of 'get by' while the 'moot was the 'real' organization. Short of rebellion, there is no way for any one person in Terran to get anything done. The Chief Magistrate is a vote-counter.
I've never seen a Republic work in BM without a strong central government, and both Kale and Hireshmont have (on purpose?) seen to it that that never occurs.
That's perfectly fine IC, but as a player in the realm it's made it a bit dull because all the real decisions get made by the 'moot and there is no feudal hierarchy at all. There is no reason to give a !@#$ what happens in the region next door, or who the up and coming knights are. It's just election after election and the only person who ever gets any criticism is poor Kale because his is the only job with regularly quantifiable results, even if those results (at least in this most recent case) have more to do with 'realm with no cohesion can't move as one army' and less to do with poor generalship. There isn't really even any politicking because at this point all the little mini-groups in Terran just loathe each other.
But this has been apparent forever. Terran needed to be recycled into a new realm a long time ago, but because it would have threatened the 'moot, that didn't happen. What authority does exist is typically bent toward defending the status quo and/or electing someone who won't rock the boat too much with respect to SA or the 'moot.
Using elections to hop around from vacant lordship to lordship to avoid being banned under the "new lord" protections. Wasn't there an entire thread about this?
Yeah, definitely. Was great and everyone in the realm seemed to enjoy the brief excitement and drama. And all the IG rivalry aside between Erasmus and Hireshemont, I always though his player was a very successful ruler because he made a lot of effort to involve everyone and spice things up when they would get boring.
I do remember reading you guys talking about that way back when, but no one directly accused me of anything so I didn't feel the need to defend myself like now. And from what I remember, many of you devs didn't even know about that thing... so what makes you think I would've known, and then assume that I did know and do it with that intention?Erasmus ran for that election (only one) in the hopes of getting a quick boost of tax gold before he left for zuma lands, seeing an easy opportunity since no one else was running; and funny thing was 3 or 4 other nobles voted for him too :) I had no idea what was going on with Erasmus' ban or why they were waiting but figured it had to do with a trial they kept alluding to , and Erasmus figured the delay was from his psudo-confession/mocking rant to SA about repenting and seeking forgiveness for his crimes. I had no idea about any new lord protections.
Wtf, why does this protection even exist?
I don't remember. It is a bit frustrating that we weren't able to get a ban on Erasmus... but such is the way of things.
It may have been (be?) a remnant of the time when you could purchase region lordships.I know its from some old feature that is no longer in practice. I think Tim specified which one when the incident happened.
Is it me, or is this war finally winding down?
Ah the sweet taste of victory. Good game moot. Now lets be FWENDS!
There's gonna be some hardcore anti-SA bitterness in Terran after this I think. See "Stab-in-the-Back Myth" for more details.Well, you shot yourself in the foot the way it was handled. My character still doesn't even know that Aurvandil attacked your capital, let alone that it's almost rogue. Hell, I don't think I even heard, IC, about Aurvandil's landing in Larur.
Well, you shot yourself in the foot the way it was handled. My character still doesn't even know that Aurvandil attacked your capital, let alone that it's almost rogue. Hell, I don't think I even heard, IC, about Aurvandil's landing in Larur.
Well, you shot yourself in the foot the way it was handled. My character still doesn't even know that Aurvandil attacked your capital, let alone that it's almost rogue. Hell, I don't think I even heard, IC, about Aurvandil's landing in Larur.
Come to think of it, neither does MY character... :-\Terran does good at getting allies, it does bad at communicating with allies though. That is their diplomatic downfall. They need to convey their need for aid, instead of just assume it is expected.
Terran does good at getting allies, it does bad at communicating with allies though. That is their diplomatic downfall. They need to convey their need for aid, instead of just assume it is expected.
Well, you shot yourself in the foot the way it was handled. My character still doesn't even know that Aurvandil attacked your capital, let alone that it's almost rogue. Hell, I don't think I even heard, IC, about Aurvandil's landing in Larur.
Honestly, even if we'd notified you as soon as we heard rumors of a naval assault, you never could have arrived in time. Aurvandil moves quickly and in great force.
EDIT: Also, funny thing is everyone in Terran is pretty apathetic to it all...
This is basically why Kale didn't bring it up to anyone: he just previously sent out urgent "Come to our aid against Asylon!" and when we learned Aurvandil was coming (only a few days prior to their landing) it was way to late to get help and any aid that did come would arrive weeks after they were sitting back at home in Aurvandil.
Come to think of it, neither does MY character... :-\
I so badly want to say " I told you all so" but I'll hold my tongue...
Honestly, even if we'd notified you as soon as we heard rumors of a naval assault, you never could have arrived in time. Aurvandil moves quickly and in great force.
Its called a sense of humour...
You do realize that saying "I really want to say X, but won't say it", is, in fact, saying X. And Asylon had little to do with it, Aurvandil was plenty able to do it on their own.
it matter? No, because after all is said and done Asylon survived and outlasted the Moot even though it was isolated and strategically inferior and without a massive alliance. And is still snubbing their nose at the entire world.
Bro.
The Moot isn't dead.
Bro.
The Moot isn't dead.
In the same way a human vegetable isn't.
Mr. Potatohead would like to have a word with you.
Said the spider to the fly... Come into my web.
Then the spider realized the fly was a Tarantula Hawk, which proceeded to paralyze the spider, drag it into its hole, and lay eggs inside of it. Not long after, little tarantula hawks were born and proceeded to eat the poor spider from the inside.
:oPerfect emoticon for it.
Then the spider realized the fly was a Tarantula Hawk, which proceeded to paralyze the spider, drag it into its hole, and lay eggs inside of it. Not long after, little tarantula hawks were born and proceeded to eat the poor spider from the inside.
And welcome Astrum, you have been expected for some time now, how pleasant that you finaly drop by, may I offer some food and drinks?If you give it all to us, that does make things a bit easier. (I know you only offered some but we will just take it all.)
Don't trust him, it's probably contaminated with bloodmoon.D'hara doesn't need it, we just don't want them to have any.
Oh FR would love to gain Itau that is for sure...
Terran in the south, Astrum in the north.
We need FR to get in on the party and it'll be a full house.
I wouldn't mind setting up a colony in Koshtlom, right by Chénier's Sea. :P
One that swears fealty to me, that is. I wouldn't actually go live there, obviously.
Isnt your kingdom being sacked? You are delusional. Good luck this winter.
I have no Republic.
You can't even properly defend or parttake in the war to save the Moot. How you going to get to Koshtlom?
It seems Terran will sign peace soon and Aurvandil will get a colony? near the North, time for Aurvandil to focus on SA ?
lol.
Don't get ahead of yourself.
Aurvandil's friends in Terran haven't won yet.
lol.
Don't get ahead of yourself.
Aurvandil's friends in Terran haven't won yet.
But Aurvandil has. We own the Terran's capital. Check and mate. What I feel bad about is that you guys have to talk to Allomere instead of Mendicant. Mendicant has a soft spot. Allomere...he scares me and im on his teamSo are you guys going to elect Allomere? And you haven't took it over so you don't own it.
If Asylon gets steamrolled, I see things changing. The 'moot may not have been doing that great pre-Asylon, but if Asylon gets steamrolled, the north will really be involved then and its much easier to keep them involved, then to get them involved.
Steamrolled by who?
D'Hara. 8)Astrum, and hopefully Terran once Aurvandil leaves. That, and perhaps Iashalur or FR help some.
Hireshmont must be smoking something. There are not (nor ever were) any plans for a colony, at least not that were made clear to Quintus.
They control his castle and he's their prisoner.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parole
Astrum, and hopefully Terran once Aurvandil leaves. That, and perhaps Iashalur or FR help some.
His friends at odds, what will Kale do!?
You've needed all that just to fight Aurvandiil, you'll need a lot more to take on Asylon. 8)
Aurvandil is remote, strong, and apparently packed with cheaters. Asylon, as far as I know, has none of that.Only one of those things actually mattered, they were too far away for our allies to do anything, but Asylon is right by them.
Aurvandil is remote, strong, and apparently packed with cheaters. Asylon, as far as I know, has none of that.
Only one of those things actually mattered, they were too far away for our allies to do anything, but Asylon is right by them.
Once they get to Asylon they wont last long... 8)Against your 12k-15k CS army? I am so scared. Astrum's forces they will bring could take that out.
Against your 12k-15k CS army? I am so scared. Astrum's forces they will bring could take that out.
Against your 12k-15k CS army? I am so scared. Astrum's forces they will bring could take that out.
You were scared enough of it before Astrum and SA got involved.i was never afraid of it, as I had no doubt SA would get involved. Terran obviously can't win against Aurvandil and Asylon, even if Barca and D'hara help.
I almost wish I'd had a proper scheme to oppose Hireshmont because that would've been fun. There's not really a 'Quintus' side' in this that I can see, though. An army took over his castle and he promised to behave. If Terran falls, it won't be because Quintus didn't fight to the last man.
In other words, even if Quintus does do something to defy Hireshmont's plans (whatever those plans are), I'm not sure I see how it could be a strong enough move to make a difference. At best he could save Aurvandil a week of effort.
I'm all in favor of intrigues and there were some discussed a while back, but they didn't happen for various reasons. The 'senate trial' seems like a weirdly-timed power play against someone who just lost the power he had. So Hireshmont could ban Quintus...Aurvandil takes the Chateau. Hireshmont doesn't ban Quintus...Aurvandil takes the Chateau. If Vellos has a rabbit to pull out of his hat, Quintus being Duke or not or banned or not can hardly make a difference.
"Secession (23 minutes ago)
message to Everyone on Dwilight
The duchy of Phantaria has seceded from Terran and formed a new realm called Phantaria."
When a lord negotiates without Senatorial permission, he attacks that lord
When I created Hireshmont II, I did so intending to play a very idealistic character who would be strictly law-and-order all the way, and deeply committed to a lofty ideal of nobility. The polar opposite of his father, who was an opportunist and pragmatist who would do anything he had to in order to achieve his (sometimes dubious) objectives.
I understand the characterization but either you or Hireshmont are mistaking 'surrender' for 'negotiation.'
I don't usually like to talk about this stuff OOCly because I enjoy a good intrigue, and I very nearly didn't RP the surrender of the Chateau (which will continue) because I knew some people would go 'wtf why is he bowing and scraping to those people why isn't he spitting in their eye.'
What he's doing is an absolutely typical medieval surrender: find out what the bad guys want (in the short term, like 'what are your terms to stop blowing up my shizzle', not 'what are your goals for this war' as Hireshmont keeps asking them) and then give his word that he won't oppose them while they're around on this particular trip. I was surprised they even accepted since they don't gain very much for having done so but they have to trust Quintus now. Striking colors, turning over the sword, that would be grounds for exactly what Hireshmont was doing if there hadn't been a battle, or if Quintus was about to betray the Republic.
I've had characters in Hireshmont's position before where they've gone after people for trying to strike deals on behalf of the realm when not empowered to do so, and that's definitely a legit choice. But this particular move makes me think more 'Hireshmont has gone Citizen Kane' than Inspector Javert. Particularly if the goal was to insure that the Republic of Terran continued to exist. Quintus may be an old bastard but he was one of the few people propping the place up. Once you lost Dallas and Labell you were really down to two or maybe three such people in the whole realm.
Hireshmont is arguing that Quintus had no right to surrender; that only the Magistracy can offer a typically Medieval surrender
But now the end of Terran has basically come. It'll be neat to see what comes in its place. Honestly, I thought Hireshmont was done for after the Erasmus affair– I've been shocked at how I've managed to rehabilitate his career. I guess we'll see now if I'll be able to pull anything out of this debacle.
Well played to Kale though. I've known about his Phantarian contingency plan with Labell for several RL years, but I completely forgot about it in this instance. And now he's played his trump card. Hireshmont really has nothing left.
Maybe it's about time to break out that interesting Zuma orphan you've been holding back for so long? ;)
There is no precedent for this, even in the Roman Republic. Provinces still had governors and governors would make that call. The Senate can surrender for the whole realm, which Quintus obviously can't do; but they don't collectively hold every castle.
Even so - since precedent is hardly required - seems to be in the camp of fiddling while Rome burns.
Hireshmont is arguing that they do collectively hold every castle: that every noble has a duty to the republic prior to their own lands.
Hireshmont is arguing that they do collectively hold every castle: that every noble has a duty to the republic prior to their own lands.
This is called Luria.
More support, for what I said is Terran's big diplomatic failure. They get all these allies, then tell them nothing. No body can help you if you don't tell them that bad !@#$ is happening.
I sure as heck hope it's not Luria. I most certainly have no intention of promulgating this kind of behavior.
Riombara has this behavior, and it really irks me. I would hate to have that in my realm as well.
On the note of Luria, I must say everything progressed quickly, without much notification from Terran. We promised food, gold, and military aid should things get dire, but I've not heard a word beyond what's been said in SA channels. Sup with all the silence, holmes?
I sure as heck hope it's not Luria. I most certainly have no intention of promulgating this kind of behavior.
Riombara has this behavior, and it really irks me. I would hate to have that in my realm as well.
On the note of Luria, I must say everything progressed quickly, without much notification from Terran. We promised food, gold, and military aid should things get dire, but I've not heard a word beyond what's been said in SA channels. Sup with all the silence, holmes?
Its happened too fast to react practically.
For example: our newly elected Chief Magistrate... is now in prison.
Go figure.
The silence is the silence of hopelessness. There's nothing to be done.
Foreign Leave (27 minutes ago)
Mendicant Anhangar, High Sovereign of Aurvandil, Royal of Aurvandil, Duke of Candiels, Margrave of Candiels has abdicated (automatically, due to inactivity).
:o
Maybe click around on some accounts in Aurvandil for more info.
Maybe click around on some accounts in Aurvandil for more info.... Or Iashalur.
... Or Iashalur.
High Treason.
"Cavaliers" or "chevaliers"? I seem to recall that they have some kind of "chevalier" group, or army, or something like that.
Mendicant & Co.'s locks present a valuable lesson in humility: if you're going to cheat, don't come onto the forums and repeatedly protest the unwarranted suspicion that your activity draws. You'll still be caught, by the way—but at least you won't look like a total moron. The gears of justice occasionally turn slowly, because nobody gets paid for their BM volunteer work, but there isn't any combination of techniques that we haven't yet seen. And if you wonder why chasing down cheaters is worth any of the effort, think of all the honest players who had their efforts and experiences ruined by this kind of dishonesty. This is a game, sure, but it's also a community. Cheaters don't respect that. Accordingly, they shouldn't be given any respect in return.
Sorry to threadjack. Back to the topic at hand.
I am quite disappointed/pissed off by the cheating. It is really annoying.
If it seems as though the gears of justice turn slowly around here, it's because nobody gets paid for their BM volunteer work, and there are many other fires to put out.
I don't mean to have a go at the volunteers, but this guy and others in Aurvandil were getting accused of cheating every five minutes. And no one thought to check if they actually were?
then it must certainly mean that, and no the Cavalier character class.
The player of the multis was much more careful than your average multi—otherwise we certainly would have caught him long ago. The automated tools we have currently didn't pick him up, but once we had a tipoff of two specific characters to look at, we found some oddities they had in common. Then we were able to use that as our key to pick up the rest of the characters in the multi cluster.
No, there were other character on other islands.
Almost everyone is out of the realm sacking Terran and can't change classes...
Well the Chateau will be part of the realm pretty soon so you should be able to change again in a bit.
Unlikely.
Also because I can't log in to Quintus due to a bug. :/
Well, so much for the "Mendicontinent"
Oh, and for ya'll who don't know, Chernier's getting a crown... :P
Maybe a crown of pig guts after we tar and feather him. :P
Their wiki page has that listed right next to a requirement that the General be a Hero, so I think it may actually be a class requirement.
Is that an IR gray area? It makes plenty of sense ICly but let's say you're a cavalier, you get elected ruler, then you want to change classes for a while and you can't?
Seriously?
That's weird.
Yeah, something happened at the sunrise turn today. Everything was fine yesterday, today I get a big long ORM entity error. Did anything happen this morning?
Geez. After all the accusation and suspicion, turns out to be true.
Chenier is gonna have a ball.
Also, what a dick that guy was. All pompous and what not. He was essentially the character Mendicant on the forums, too.
And look at all the stuff he effed up on Dwilight. I would venture that Aurvandil would not have been quite so powerful the past year without all his multi's. Strong, sure. But maybe not as crazy good as they were.
Really makes me mad.
I'm pretty pissed off with the game as a whole right now. A bunch of cheaters changed the continent permanently, and no amounts of political effort could stand in their way.
It was fishy as hell since the beginning, and now all of those people who didn't care about how suspicious their peers were, who preferred to look the other way as long as it payed off for them, now these people are set for quite a while. Aurvandil is now there to stay, probably, and these locks only come after they have succeeded in breaking all of their neighbors. The cheaters get locked, and all of the complacent and unscrupulous who helped them achieve their goals get to enjoy the spoils of the cheat.
I hate the Zuma, but a Zuma invasion of Aurvandil, to destroy or at least cripple the realm that gained supremacy through illegitimate means, would seem fair at this time. Cheating should never pay off for anyone. Looking the other way should never pay off for anyone.
Meh, I see no difference between a realm being destroyed by cheaters and a realm being destroyed by some big gang bang alliance. One's legal and one's not, but they both result in the same thing. The injustice is integral to the battlemaster experience.
So, yeah, it's a shame that Madina got destroyed (not Terran that realm was boring), but, eh, the game was rigged from the beginning -- there's no way to win, after all.
I can relate to the guilty feeling of associating with and even aiding Mendicant. I gave him five hundred gold! This makes all of my treachery seem rather pointless.
Chenier Rant
I have some pretty big issues with your guilt-by-association hypothesis, but on the whole that was much more restrained than I was expecting. Bravo.
My big question to everyone: How do we wanna RP this? Black Death? Wrath of the gods? Rampant scurvy?
I'm pretty pissed off with the game as a whole right now. A bunch of cheaters changed the continent permanently, and no amounts of political effort could stand in their way.
It was fishy as hell since the beginning, and now all of those people who didn't care about how suspicious their peers were, who preferred to look the other way as long as it payed off for them, now these people are set for quite a while. Aurvandil is now there to stay, probably, and these locks only come after they have succeeded in breaking all of their neighbors. The cheaters get locked, and all of the complacent and unscrupulous who helped them achieve their goals get to enjoy the spoils of the cheat.
I hate the Zuma, but a Zuma invasion of Aurvandil, to destroy or at least cripple the realm that gained supremacy through illegitimate means, would seem fair at this time. Cheating should never pay off for anyone. Looking the other way should never pay off for anyone.
You are missing out on a chance to RP alien space clones!!!
All I know is things will prove from here: if Allison takes the lead, then doubly so.
If you meant to write "improve" and Allison in same the sentence, then you haven't considered the implications of a declared heretic becoming head of state. Oh, the howling that will commence.
The impotent howling!!! Personally if elected I would set up a new realm in Terran lands then lead that realm myself. I would be closer and then when the real fight started you would see how many friends I really do still have.
Unless you have a whole realm full of people to bring with you or else you want the realm to be you and Kas, I wouldn't suggest this.
Terran the realm was in bad shape but many of the nobles are salvageable. I've heard three separate plans for what to do with the land between the Chateau and Paisly and the big flaw in two of those three is that it assumes all of Terran's nobles are going to defect to D'Hara or something.
So you were treated to the same thing that you claim every realm experiences, yet also claim that you deserve to be compensated because of it... ???
The Marrocidens probably need some time to recuperate. Meanwhile, the north is brewing! Asylon vs western SA realms go!
...unless Astrum has a bunch of allies to bail them out I think that they are screwed.
Good thing Asylon isn't stronger than a paper bag, then. :D
And now the same has happened to the walls of the Terran Capital,
Yup. And my Realm was fully annihilated and destroyed by Mendicant and his posse, its name tarnished, the whole nine yards.
You know what I'm going to do? Crush Aurvandil - and to do that, I need to get back to playing.
you can try, but Aurvandil will not let you remake madina in any form while it still has troops to fight with.Because he really thought you guys would totally be like, "You want to destroy my realm to remake Madina? Sounds good we will get rid of all of our troops so you can do that." Btw, Madina would be started in Madina, and Aurvandil doing a terrible job defending it does not suggest they will survive much longer.
Because he really thought you guys would totally be like, "You want to destroy my realm to remake Madina? Sounds good we will get rid of all of our troops so you can do that." Btw, Madina would be started in Madina, and Aurvandil doing a terrible job defending it does not suggest they will survive much longer.
Well if you're done being a condescending ass, My point was really to say that no affair we have would be more important than keeping Madina from being refounded. Even if falkirk falls we will just retake the city.
Tell me, would Allison have left the church if she had nowhere to run to?She probably would have been kicked out. The writing was already on the wall. Too many people were too unhappy with her. She had been permanently denied any form of control or authority in the religion. For Allison, that's as good as kicking her out.
And whatever the answer, many people have put great efforts to keeping SA in the same direction, and many have commented that it may not otherwise be so united.I maintain that these people, all relative newcomers to SA, have no idea what they're talking about.
Morek's impact on Dwilight is rather minimal. They could have more impact, but they chose not to. Same with Astrum.I'm sorry, but this just proves that you have no idea what's going on in the world outside D'Hara.
What did Astrum or Morek do since Aurvandil was founded?Destroyed
To say that it had a "big" effect is an understatement. Mendicant single-handedly caused the most changes on Dwilight by himself, with the help of whoever didn't mind playing in a realm with a lot of fishy behavior.There's no denying that Aurvandil had a huge effect on the island. I don't deny it. I just dispute how much different the island would be without the multi-accounting. Would the moot still be around? Sure. Madina? Maybe.
Why not just go raze the damn thing to the ground, lest we leave Dwi as a testament of how much one can pull off by cheating if he wants to.Not gonna happen, no matter how much you scream and yell that it should. Treat it like any other bug, and play through it.
Without Mendicant and his wars, Rynn would not have become Prime Minister when he did, or reigned for as long as he has. Think on how much influence that alone has had. kthxbai.
So if you don't care... why are you here? You're just making yourself sound like more and more of an idiot. If you're weighing in simply to disagree or have your own super-edgy-totally-original opinion, you probably need something more exciting in life.
Have you seen the RCs in Aurvandil? They're incredible.
How condescending. I'm crushed. I'm abject, desolate, undone. I'm going to quit BM forever and cry. Your words, so powerful in their utmost perfection and wisdom, have shattered my feeble image of the world and proven to me my own ignorance. Oh the shame...
So, You're just posting to insult people now and make yourself sound idiotic? That's cool. No he's posting because that's what people do on a game forum... discuss the game.
Surprise for you, maybe, 'cause they all happened before Aurvandil seceded.Aurvandil was most definitely in existence when Astrum was fighting against Averoth and Caerwyn. Candiels seceded two weeks after Caerwyn declared war. Rowan Geronus died two days after Caerwyn declared war, and my character Brance was elected ruler. Averoth died two months later, and Caerwyn three months after that. I distinctly remember Aurvandil's secession.
D'Hara funded realms with tens of thousands of gold in the past, and the results never were all that spectacular.And yet you tried to blame the SA theocracies for the failure of the war against Aurvandil because we didn't give Terran tens of thousands of gold, even though you admit that the results of such an endeavor were never good.
If he says "I've already stated my case on this issue, your attacks don't reveal any flaws in my reasoning nor bring up anything I might have overlooked, so I will simply refer you to my previous post." and "I did not benefit or lose from this ordeal, nor am I particularly concerned. I am discussing this on a whim, if you must know. " then why is he discussing it? If Kwanstein wants to be condescending and arrogant instead of defending his points or shrugging and letting the frustrated be frustrated, why am I going to give him anything less than beautifully snarky remarks?
We should exile the two of you, together, to the Colonies. You two can have a cage match, with only one coming out alive.
Two men enter, one man leaves... been too long since I watched Mad Max!!!
Believe it or not, the vast majority of their wealth is in gold...
Who's gonna pick up all those counties that Terran left behind? Be cool if Asylon walked in and took a thing or two.
So the Mistight peasants defect to the Zuma... does this mean I have to declare war on the Zuma to get it back?
Maybe, or it will whip up the Anti-Asylon sentiments again and make people start threatning us for beeing too, um, i dont remember the word.... Imperialistic? expansive? something negative that makes them want to declare war on us to prevent us from expanding further.
Mmmm... I'm pretty sure it was supporting Aurvandil, bro. lol
So have the Zuma attacked Chesney yet? I thought that Kas convinced them to do that awhile ago. But no mention of it on the forums, I am dissapoint.
Well, Haktoo just gave me permission to DoW on the Zuma to retake Mistight... so she doesn't seem to angry... I hope..
Mmmm... I'm pretty sure it was supporting Aurvandil, bro. lol
Naw, the Moot and the northern theocracies attitude had kind of pushed us closer to Auravndiil and the Zuma. Which has worked out excellently in this war. Oh sweet isolation breeds innovation...Its worked out excellently in this war? Asylon has done next to nothing. You lured Terran's army away, but even if they did defend, they would have been defeated easily anyways.
Its worked out excellently in this war? Asylon has done next to nothing. You lured Terran's army away, but even if they did defend, they would have been defeated easily anyways.
Oh Penchant ye have little patience...Aurvandil is going to abandon you because they are busy with stopping Madina from being set up and I don't really see the Zuma caring about you so there seems to be nothing for me to wait to learn of that would make me think Asylon has done something that could be said to have worked out excellently for them already. As to hoping something will work out well, you can't really say that is it has worked out well just because you expect/hope it will, as it has no guarantee to actually happen.
Aurvandil is going to abandon you because they are busy with stopping Madina from being set up and I don't really see the Zuma caring about you so there seems to be nothing for me to wait to learn of that would make me think Asylon has done something that could be said to have worked out excellently for them already. As to hoping something will work out well, you can't really say that is it has worked out well just because you expect/hope it will, as it has no guarantee to actually happen.
This is the decent into madness you've been looking for for a while now, no? lol
Madness? No.Calculated to lose all power and become an outcast? (Well for the 'moot anyways, Hireshemont is doing pretty decent for SA.)
Hireshmont's actions are very calculated.
Madness? No.
Hireshmont's actions are very calculated.
Calculated to lose all power and become an outcast? (Well for the 'moot anyways, Hireshemont is doing pretty decent for SA.)
Allison Kabrinski has changed the allegiance of Tovabur to the duchy of Fissoa, a part of the realm of Grand Duchy of Fissoa
Asylon keeps geting new nobles, even with the server issues. The thocracies will colaps simply because of lack of nobles if this keeps up.
Well its a good beginning for Asylon but it won't last long.
Mendicant again, or did one of yours decide to follow his example? After all, he seems to be recreating some of his accounts in Aurvandil.
Mendicant again, or did one of yours decide to follow his example? After all, he seems to be recreating some of his accounts in Aurvandil.
I too find it odd, that during a time when most Realms are suffering low activity due to the DNS issue a Realm would be getting "lots" of new knights.
Just saying, it seems a bit weird.
And Perth,
Since Asylon are getting more and more new Knights, I might need to promote some Knights to Lords, but I dont have land... You had land you wanted us to take, right? ;)
Had ya'll been D'Haran newcommers, that would have been the case. Rynn, Ghaundan and Ismail are all on the national welcoming comittee ;D
Damn right. But, I do have something to say now. Something related to how, even being Holy Week in my country and thus being in holiday (spare time FTW), I haven't felt like answering letters the latter days.
If I go back to my first arrival in this game, which happened pretty much by hazard, I found it slightly exciting, though I was dissapointed by the turn system (why do I have only so many hours to use? That's silly! - those were my thoughts ;D)
Still, I read the manual, the RP guide and nearly everything the wiki had to say about the game. Then I thought: heck, this thing has potential. Let's stick to it.
Some months later, I won my first region (yay, Port Nebel!) and started getting involved a little bit more with the politics and all that. That's when I said: dude, this game's awesome!
But do you know why did I say that? Not for politicking, not for the region and definitely not for what was happening. It was all about the atmosphere. After playing so many directly competitive games, BM was refreshing as hell, and above all: I thought it had an extremely healthy environment, where everyone was kind and everything went fluent, no grudges between players and all kept within IC.
Errrr... no. Now I'm close to the 2 years mark, and even though I still consider myself a sort of newcomer, since there are people who have been here for ages, my opinion of the atmosphere has changed quite a bit. And it all started by OOC bitching and, especially, my first visits to the forum. Hell, no. That was not healthy anymore. Some of it had indeed quite harsh words between PLAYERS, and resentments hold for literally RL years.
Has anyone considered that the loss of players may be simply because of a "professionalization" of the game and the change in atmosphere? Those two things tend to scare casual players as myself, and were I not as involved as I already am in some stuff I would possibly say: that's it, here it ends.
Anyway, I don't even know why I have written this here. Perhaps because I don't know where else write it, perhaps only with the vain hope that people may start being nice to other people again so the overall feeling is improved a bit and IC becomes important one more time. Apologies for the long post.
Can someone make an official "Mendicant/Aurvandil Flame" thread so I can eavesdrop on whats going on with the wars across the pond and not sift through this?
I'd say go to the Cases thread that is up, but it's horribly placed for a vitriol thread.
What are the Terran babies planning to do? How does Asylon fare? Does anyone care about Barca?
What are the Terran babies planning to do? How does Asylon fare? Does anyone care about Barca?
Asylon's winning. Look at the world news feed and see for yourselves; they recently defeated 50% of the nobles in Astrum army.Yeah...no 50% of the nobles of Astrum army was not defeated. They may have won the recent battles but Astrum obviously has much a much larger army. Are they perhaps not the most organized, maybe, but they have a bigger army then whats been shown.
Yeah...no 50% of the nobles of Astrum army was not defeated. They may have won the recent battles but Astrum obviously has much a much larger army. Are they perhaps not the most organized, maybe, but they have a bigger army then whats been shown.
Yeah...no 50% of the nobles of Astrum army was not defeated. They may have won the recent battles but Astrum obviously has much a much larger army. Are they perhaps not the most organized, maybe, but they have a bigger army then whats been shown.
Umm, Astrum has a large militia force. They do not have a large active army. This has always been the case. Astrum is a realm of gold collectors, they are fat and bored, complacent. Asylon is a realm of hungry sleek killing machines surrounded by hostile enemies, hated by all. We are the panther in the jungle. Astrum is a chubby little sow in its pen. Astrums allies are very far away and Asylon does not fear a living soul. We are ready to take on the entire world!You forget the original bloodlusting barbarians on dwilight, the Toren, still live in Astrumese lands ;)
The army of Astrum is scattered from Shuberstone to Walefishire. We have been smashing piecemeal habberdash of nobles that rest inbetween those regions. We are not cocky but confidence is high that we will do the impossible over the next few weeks. By the time Astrum arrives we will have refitted repaired and returned with a larger army that will be like rolling thunder on the plains and shake the very foundations of western Dwilight... Hooowarghhh
This war is a godsend for Astrum. I hope it wakes people up. Too bad you guys couldn't wait another couple months. I was seriously considering abandoning the realm, and moving somewhere else. But now I have to stick around long enough to crush you. :)
You need to get Morek involved too.
In other news: I just realized Terran lost regions. I totally thought that no regions had been lost in the secessions. Woops!
What do you mean? You didn't think duchies seceding took the whole duchy with them?
No I mean all the rogue regions.
I didn't realize anything went rogue.
Or that Saffalore was captured.
Oh, yeah.
Asylon's looting hit Phantaria hard. The place is starving out.
Oh, yeah.
Asylon's looting hit Phantaria hard. The place is starving out.
But, you know... the end of Terran will be the end of Triunism.
You could convert to Astroism and move north! :)
Not necessarily. We've got a temple in Shokalom and Shoka, for sure. And Kale is still Triunist after all these years.
Bah.
Just convert all ready. It's way more fun. You know I'm telling the truth.
Maybe.
But the Astroist membership card also comes with a big ole' target on your back.
Bloodmoon Cult is another option, on the other hand....
Oh yeah because Truinism and Astroism are so close.
Well so does CoB... Considering we acknowledge the Bloodstars as having influence in the fruit. The stars influence man and nature. Bloodmoon being one discovered thing that is directly influenced by changes in the star phases.
I'm glad Asylon so stalwartly resists the spread of SA into all corners. It's a breath of fresh air.
The Marrocidens seems like the perfect place for some Astroistic spinoff-religion to pop up, much like Catharism or Bogilism, considering all the convergent influence of SA, Triunism, and VE.
We dont resist SA ,we resist Astrums influence and the government style of theocracy, we still have SA temples in Asylon, we welcome priests. We are not anti-SA. We are against Astrums reach in our region and we desire to be the power of the messociddens. We actually want us and the Farronites to be that power but they keep hanging out with those Moot losers instead of stepping up and casting off the shackles, fight for freedom of their realm to do what it wishes and have the Moot realms come to us as the new order in the west lands. No longer will we bow to outside influence, no longer will we fear what Astrum wants or who they desire to take our lands. We will decide our own future from now on without the Moot or Astrum to cow us and shale our chain... Freedom for the Messocidens! Since Caerwyn, since Kabrinskia,we have been under the boot. No more!
Nice to see that your hallucinations are still going strong. I think I might come to miss them if you started acting rational. :D
I just thought you were tom because of the battlemaster logo.
Nice to see that your hallucinations are still going strong. I think I might come to miss them if you started acting rational. :D
The fact that you're roleplaying doesn't mean that the character you are playing can't be rational, and make decisions/plans based on what's really happening in-game. If you try to keep your motivations more in line with what's really going on in-game, you may find yourself less frustrated (and less pissed off) by the actions of your fellow players. I'm sure everyone would appreciate that.
That doesn't mean you can't have fun. But maybe you can throw us off track, and maybe trip us all up every now and then, by doing/saying something that is understandable?
I just thought you were tom because of the battlemaster logo.
Ditto. Indirik's been throwin me off all day.He is an admin now for the forums, so it comes with title/job.
I do that at work all day. ;D
Regarding the plans and decisions based on whats happening ingame. My decisions and the decisions of my realm are whats happening in game. That is why we act like we do or did. My motivations are are exactly what is in line with what is happening ingame because my character and realm survive where others flounder, cannot draw players, nor cooperate long term. Perhaps if my actions are not understandable it is those who do not understand that should try to understand. In a strategy game, for people to understand what you are doing would allow them to predict your actions, if someone cannot predict your actions they cannot beat you, if they cannot beat you they will have to adapt or be destroyed. If you can make your actions clear to those who follow you but befuddle those who oppose you, it doesn't matter that they cannot understand for they are the enemy. 8)
I'm glad Asylon so stalwartly resists the spread of SA into all corners. It's a breath of fresh air.
The Marrocidens seems like the perfect place for some Astroistic spinoff-religion to pop up, much like Catharism or Bogilism, considering all the convergent influence of SA, Triunism, and VE.
That would be fun. We need a good, dynamic religion in that part of the continent.Or you know...Orthodox Astroism (I am kinda neutral to it myself).
Or you know...Orthodox Astroism (I am kinda neutral to it myself).
Allison shut down OA.
Not that joining it would have done you any good. It was just a shell anyway.
Doesn't explaining this sort of negate anything you might be gaining from it?
He's the master of the unpredictable.
If it wasn't Allison, and if it wasn't the sole thing Astroism is willing to crusade/get angry about, and therefore had any chance of success, then yeah I'de be open to it.
Yeah... because that's exactly what OA was about.
Bro.
Join SA, and then start some kind of pseudo-syncretic semi-Triunist faction within SA. It isn't hard and probably wouldn't get that bad of a reaction if you brought enough converts with you.
Yes, it was about something. That something just had nothing to do with creating a real religion.
Meanwhile, Phantaria is slowly wasting away due to severe starvation.You deserve to starve. No effort to get food means you deserve starvation. I still don't understand why you don't ask your federation partners for food, or at least tell them you are having troubles and ask if they know where you can get some.
Typical Terran fashion not communicating between allies...
You deserve to starve. No effort to get food means you deserve starvation. I still don't understand why you don't ask your federation partners for food, or at least tell them you are having troubles and ask if they know where you can get some.
1. I didn't say we didn't, I was more just reporting for new's sake.2. You never asked your federated allies when you were Terran either. Plus, its not like we instantly hate you because left so since you are practically still a part of the moot. (Not officially but still in guild, still liked, etc.)
2. Phantaria doesn't have any federated allies.
2. You never asked your federated allies when you were Terran either. Plus, its not like we instantly hate you because left so since you are practically still a part of the moot. (Not officially but still in guild, still liked, etc.)
2. You never asked your federated allies when you were Terran either. Plus, its not like we instantly hate you because left so since you are practically still a part of the moot. (Not officially but still in guild, still liked, etc.)
No, D'Hara gave Terran at least 1000 bushels...right before the Great Drought hit. That's part of why D'Hara lost half its regions--we helped Terran survive.
Vellos i think you should prepare yourself. We will see ::) . I hope Allomere accepts the offer so we can focus on other "potential" military campaigns.
I am talking about the other thing. ::)
Well, you're not supposed to talk about the other thing on the forum, are you? :o
Peace with Asylon - check!
We we were fine on food as Terran. The reason Phantaria is starving is because of the raiding/looting done by Asylon right before the secession coupled with some moral penalties from the whole new realm process.
Peace with Asylon - check!
Phantaria starved before we did our raid there,
A lot of Terran starved because there was a month or so when nobody could be arsed to sell their food. The food was there. It just wasn't moving.
Terran, 'the realm where nothing is ever anybody's fault, except Erasmus'
Sorry bout that, but thats how Asylon wages war. We come, we pillage, we retreat back into our backwater realm that is no threat to anybody.
And on another note, I remember selling food to the previous Duke of Shokalom several times, I keep forgeting his name... When I was trying to befriend him and improve Asylon-Terran(well, Phantaria-Duchy relations really). Point beeing: Phantaria starved before we did our raid there, so we only take partial blame, well, most of the blame.
Yeah, going to upset a few of my nobles, but hey, we left the conflict a long time ago when we started to march north instead.
Now the excitment of watching how Astrum will act begins =D
Terran, 'the realm where nothing is ever anybody's fault, except Erasmus'
Vellosis the whole reason your republic has been laid to ashes... Good luck with that one.
Not much left to lose, either way.
I will make a fancy title and go into exile.
Boo-ya.
Roam the lands, like Stanislav Chénier, King and Justiciar of Minas Ithil?
Roam the lands, like Stanislav Chénier, King and Justiciar of Minas Ithil?
I'm trying to find people to interact with, but even the big cities are empty. :(
Still there, still strong, still taking advantage of their illegitimate might to continue pressing on the neighboring realms they used their illegitimate might to cripple in the first place. Only difference is that they are siding with more unscrupulous people now.
You wanna maybe reconsider calling a realm with three devs in prominent positions "more unscrupulous" than a realm built on the back of a multicheater?
Or are you actually accusing us of abusing our devly powers? 'Cause if so, I think that would probably fall under §2.3 of the Social Contract.
You wanna maybe reconsider calling a realm with three devs in prominent positions "more unscrupulous" than a realm built on the back of a multicheater?
Or are you actually accusing us of abusing our devly powers? 'Cause if so, I think that would probably fall under §2.3 of the Social Contract.
I believe Chenier was saying Lurian nobles are more unscrupulous than those Aurvandil was allied with before.
Love how Aurvandil was all like "we like small independant players, and Falkirk's totally independant", and now they are going to war with D'Hara and Fissoa because of Falkirk and are allying with the most imperialistic realm of all, not to mention the new top realm: Luria Nova.
As for those saying Aurvandil is crippled... the stats page show no significant change as far as characters and active characters go. Military strength waned, sure, but they had waned to even lower levels in January, and are already bouncing back up. So nope. Still there, still strong, still taking advantage of their illegitimate might to continue pressing on the neighboring realms they used their illegitimate might to cripple in the first place. Only difference is that they are siding with more unscrupulous people now.
I believe Chenier was saying Lurian nobles are more unscrupulous than those Aurvandil was allied with before.
The subject of both those paragraphs is Aurvandil, not Luria Nova. First paragraph states that Aurvandil has allied with Luria Nova and Falkirk. The second paragraph states that Aurvandil is still strong, and has yet another one of Chenier's rants about Aurvandil as a realm not getting punished for the actions of the multi.
Luria Nova is not accused of anything other than being the "new top realm". I don't see how that is a social contract violation.
Only difference is that they are siding with more unscrupulous people now.
Aurvandil + Luria Nova vs CE - Tara. Who would win?
So, Maroccidenian war.
Well the war is going to start backup it seems. Aurvandil demanded we give Saffalore back Odona after the lord defected and that we give back the regions on Madina Isle. The short version of Rynn's letter was !@#$ no/!@#$ you. Also, I find it incredibly hard to claim D'hara's current diplomacy being successful through its wordsmithing, as it seems much more like its successful simply through Rynn's personal relationships with others and less so of D'hara as a whole.
Well the war is going to start backup it seems. Aurvandil demanded we give Saffalore back Odona after the lord defected and that we give back the regions on Madina Isle. The short version of Rynn's letter was !@#$ no/!@#$ you. Also, I find it incredibly hard to claim D'hara's current diplomacy being successful through its wordsmithing, as it seems much more like its successful simply through Rynn's personal relationships with others and less so of D'hara as a whole.
Oh... NOOOWW D'Hara wants to fight Aurvandil. *facepalm*
Oh... NOOOWW D'Hara wants to fight Aurvandil. *facepalm*
Love how Aurvandil was all like "we like small independant players, and Falkirk's totally independant", and now they are going to war with D'Hara and Fissoa because of Falkirk and are allying with the most imperialistic realm of all, not to mention the new top realm: Luria Nova.
As for those saying Aurvandil is crippled... the stats page show no significant change as far as characters and active characters go. Military strength waned, sure, but they had waned to even lower levels in January, and are already bouncing back up. So nope. Still there, still strong, still taking advantage of their illegitimate might to continue pressing on the neighboring realms they used their illegitimate might to cripple in the first place. Only difference is that they are siding with more unscrupulous people now.
A 33% drop in military strength is no laughing matter. Considering that more than a few of the characters that were locked and later auto paused automatically dropped their units as militia when they did that. Also, those accounts that were locked haven't been deleted yet so they won't show up on the Aurvandil stats. From first glance it looks like they have about 4 fairly new accounts in Aurvandil and not all of the nobles have that followed Allison have made their exodus. Also, it may take some time for all the extra gold that was funneled into the realm to run out.
How many capital sacks will they get to do before this happens, I wonder?Actually none, as most of the gold is gone since it was mostly gold and not bonds during autopause, I believe. Its cheaper to maintain an army than it is to recruit an army.
Actually none, as most of the gold is gone since it was mostly gold and not bonds during autopause, I believe. Its cheaper to maintain an army than it is to recruit an army.
They army that they already have and which is cheaper to maintain is quite enough...
You're right Chenier, we are coming for you. All our units and armies have been renamed to the boogeymen and we are gonna getcha. 2000 infantry will all be hiding under your bed :P
Your own ruler said he was coming to invade us...
We just want to scare you :P Really, you're pretty selfish thinking you would be our first target. SMH
We ALWAYS think we are EVERYONE's first targets.
Could have sworn that someone from Asylon would have said that... lets get paranoid togheter? ;)
We ALWAYS think we are EVERYONE's first targets.
Wait... Niselur's first target is D'hara?!? I know our deposed King went there, but do we really need his corpse or something to ensure Leopold's rule?