BattleMaster Community
BattleMaster => BM General Discussion => Topic started by: Danlawer on August 05, 2011, 01:20:15 PM
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I did an interesting discovery recently... I played BM from 2006 till 2010, quit, but started playing again yesterday. In less then 2 days, I managed to get 4 fame points, and that for a new family. Because I only played 2 days, it is very easy to track down what I did... I can place 2 fame points:
1= Gaining 10 prestige by one character
1= Gaining 20 family prestige
2 points I'm unaware of. I checked the wiki and can rule out the following: council positions, lord positions, religion, unique items, deaths, events. Actually, from all the known fame points, I only fulfill 2 of them. That means that I've done something in these past two days which makes I got 2 fame points.
To summarize what I did in those two days:
- created a family member A in the Far East
- created a second family member B in the Far East but in a different realm
- retired family member A after one day (wrong realm)
- created a third family member C in the Far East, in the same realm as member B
- created two inexperienced new characters
- participate with B in 3 battles in the same city in 3 turns (following after each other)
- received and spend 300 gold on recruitment with B
- recruited +/- 50 men with B
- recruited scouts, banners and healers
- joined a religion
- become a knight with B of a city
- joined an army
- wounded an enemy lord with character C: Ceneric Godwin, Count of Rrerat has been wounded by Sartan's Wrath (29).;
- wounded an enemy noble with character B: Rigitamos Brythonic (Knight of Rrerat, Arcachon) has been wounded by Sartan's Guard (28).
- wounded two enemy nobles with two different family members in one battle
- got B and C wounded in one battle
- got wounded in a battle, unit fights on and does not retreat and wins battle
- made scout reports
- gained your first fame point
- create a new family
I bet my money on the wounding of an enemy noble, gaining your first fame point or retiring a character after one day. The last statement could be, as you can find more new families with some fame points which retired a character after day one.
Also the idea to hide fame points in the beginning of a game makes sense: which new player is occupied with fame points? None of them, as they are all finding out how the game works. Which experienced player still remembers what he did in the beginning of his career? Also none of them. It would be even clever to hide unknown fame points in the beginning of a family career.
Any ideas on these statements?
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when i hear such stories, most of time i cannot help myself but to be bitterly sarcastic, so i apologize in advance, my following statements are not any sort of personal attacks, but my vocal appeal against processes that severely degrade game in my opinion.
the course of events you described seems to be ultimately unnatural - you are likely ooc invited to some specific realm, you already ooc explained that you are old player who knows the ropes, so suddenly you ended with 300 gold, money that many diligent players do not see for years, you are given trust and confidence though nobody could know your green and unproved char at all, so there is no any rp-ing background, and all that happens on continent that was proud to call herself rp-ing continent once.
if only two or three similar cases happened in about similar time, that could decide on some very important battles, or even affect the whole course of some war, and all those players who play their chars in-game are the ones who cannot compete against advantage achieved that way.
example you describe is good illustration why I proposed random placement of chars on continents once.
and reaching fame points that way is not impressive - imagine nice ooc group who perpetuated most of council positions and ducal position over period of few months, so all, or most of them achieved 6 fame points that way...
i believe no titans, magistrate, or regular police force can deal with that, the only hope is that players accept rules of fair play even at cost of losing sometimes. and vast majority of players certainly accept that, otherwise everything would collapse... :o
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the course of events you described seems to be ultimately unnatural - you are likely ooc invited to some specific realm, you already ooc explained that you are old player who knows the ropes, so suddenly you ended with 300 gold, money that many diligent players do not see for years, you are given trust and confidence though nobody could know your green and unproved char at all, so there is no any rp-ing background, and all that happens on continent that was proud to call herself rp-ing continent once.
Indeed a bit skeptical, but your full right to do so. From my point of view, however, a bit misplaced... The things you read and interpret, change from what really happened. Yes, I played the game in the past, no, I did not mentioned it in game. The gold was handed to me as I was in the capital, which was under siege, and only 4 others were there to defend it. Many other received packages of 100 gold, as I did, spread over three turns. Nothing strange to report here.
I posted this post to discuss unknown fame points, as it proved to be an interesting topic of discussion in the past. I have, in no way, the need to hoard or gather fame points.
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The gold was handed to me as I was in the capital, which was under siege, and only 4 others were there to defend it.
Ahh... The defense of Ozrat. Yeah, the duke was not in the city when the attack was launched. The the duke got captured and lost his duchy. And the Arcachonians were storming in. I'd imagine anyone in the city would have been able to get almost as much gold as they could possibly use. Quite the epic defense of the capital, I'd say. Too bad we won. :( :P
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It was indeed the defense of Ozrat ;-) We indeed won because many were generous with gold... That was at least one reason.
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Things that won't generate fame, because they are either too easy or involve OOC actions:
- created a family member A in the Far East
- created a second family member B in the Far East but in a different realm
- retired family member A after one day (wrong realm)
- created a third family member C in the Far East, in the same realm as member B
- created two inexperienced new characters
- recruited scouts, banners and healers
- joined a religion
- become a knight with B of a city
- joined an army
- made scout reports
- gained your first fame point
- create a new family
Things I find most likely:
- participate with B in 3 battles in the same city in 3 turns (following after each other)
- became 25th or 50th member of the religion
things I find unlikely:
- participate with B in 3 battles in the same city in 3 turns (following after each other)
- received and spend 300 gold on recruitment with B
- recruited +/- 50 men with B
- wounded an enemy lord with character C: Ceneric Godwin, Count of Rrerat has been wounded by Sartan's Wrath (29).;
- wounded an enemy noble with character B: Rigitamos Brythonic (Knight of Rrerat, Arcachon) has been wounded by Sartan's Guard (28).
- wounded two enemy nobles with two different family members in one battle
- got B and C wounded in one battle
- got wounded in a battle, unit fights on and does not retreat and wins battle
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I finding wounding an enemy lord quite a compelling one.
Heck, it even goes in the continent-wide battle report sometimes. That's real fame.
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I think that one makes indeed the best chance as a possible fame point... :-)
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Aye, it's been hinted at before by the coders that things that show up on continent-wide battle reports may well have something to do with fame for the obvious reasons. I can't say more than that, because the fame code is one section I resolutely refuse to look at. I am too much the fame whore to resist if I knew.
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Well, it sounds like a very productive place to look for points.
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Hmm... very strange... while I had 4 fame points, I now only have 2... :S so my points decreased... Very strange!
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Hmm... very strange... while I had 4 fame points, I now only have 2... :S so my points decreased... Very strange!
Lightning bolted or bug?
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Lightning bolted or bug?
Non of them that I'm aware of... Haven't been struck by lighting and never got an error message. But still, I guess a bug is an option :-)
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omfg. I just rickrolled myself ;D ;D
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Hmm... very strange... while I had 4 fame points, I now only have 2... :S so my points decreased... Very strange!
I had 6 and now have 4. There's nothing I can think of over the last week that's changed that should affect it. Must be some sort of bug- which makes sense, as I was similarly puzzled by the appearance of those 2 points last week.
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The loss of fame is not, strictly speaking, a bug. To understand this, let me explain a little about how gaining fame works:
Each fame "event" has a certain number of points associated with it. When you achieve any particular such "event", the game records that you got it, and adds the number of points to your fame total.
Then, any later time that you get achieve that same event, the game checks, sees that you already have it, and doesn't give you anything.
Sometimes, though, due to one bug or other, the game adds extra points to your fame total. If this happens, the fame cleanup script (which runs either at the turn or around 10AM server time, depending on which set of scripts it belongs to—I don't recall offhand) will fix it when it goes through all your recorded fame "events", and adds up the points associated with them. If it gets a number that's different from your current fame total, it will replace your fame total with the number it got.
I hope that makes sense.
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So it seems the 4 fame points he got are actually only two, and the search for the lemon continues?
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So it seems the 4 fame points he got are actually only two, and the search for the lemon continues?
Lemon?
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It's a very famous lemon.
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http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Lemon_Fame_2 (http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Lemon_Fame_2)
Wow, I know something Anaris doesn't!
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http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Lemon_Fame_2 (http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Lemon_Fame_2)
Wow, I know something Anaris doesn't!
I know about Lemon Fame, egamma.
Do you know why it's called Lemon Fame?
Here's a hint: There's no actual lemon involved.
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:P Aw shucks.
Well...the original page says "Fame theories by Lemon Tree".
Presumably there was a played called Lemon Tree, who conducted the initial investigations?
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:P Aw shucks.
Well...the original page says "Fame theories by Lemon Tree".
Presumably there was a played called Lemon Tree, who conducted the initial investigations?
LemonTree was one of Vincent van Eylen's characters (VinnieTheDark was his IRC nick, and one of his most prominent characters was Vinnie, in Darka; I don't recall where LemonTree was based). He started that page way back in the day—on the TikiWiki, as I recall—and it eventually became the go-to place for fame theories. And remains so even today, long after Vinnie left the game and most people don't remember or never knew him.
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the course of events you described seems to be ultimately unnatural - you are likely ooc invited to some specific realm, you already ooc explained that you are old player who knows the ropes, so suddenly you ended with 300 gold, money that many diligent players do not see for years, you are given trust and confidence though nobody could know your green and unproved char at all, so there is no any rp-ing background, and all that happens on continent that was proud to call herself rp-ing continent once.
I like what you wrote in there. However, I would like to hear an opinion on my own happening and whether people find it good or bad. In 2007/8 I started the Arrakis family, played with them for like 2 years, and the family became relatively known. Then I deleted the account, tried with a few new families but the feeling was nowhere near the old ones, so I've recreated the Arrakis account like a year ago. I made all the new characters of course (there weren't any reincarnations of old ones), but the majority of them are roleplayed as sons of the old characters from the old account. I've practically done this because of myself, as i get a lot of kicks in having a family with pretty large history behind it and the rp between different generations.
In the realms that I've joined with these new chars no one mattered much or objected when I've connected them to the old account. However, we have a situation now in ibladesh, where my new character Abraxas (relatively new, 1 year old account) is running for the ruler of Ibladesh. In my announcement letter I've mentioned his connection to Mythos (who was once a ruler of ibladesh and a pretty popular figure there); to be more precise: Abraxas is being roleplayed as a son of Mythos. Hence I mentioned he is royalty (in a perfect roleplay game i could have said he is a heir to the throne really, but i doubt the mindset of BM players would be ready to accept that). So, now I have a few players who said OOC and IC that that is pretty lame and stupid, as i can't connect those two accounts in any way, and their IC thesis was that he is fake. I have defended Abraxas pretty well IC, though. However, just to prove that Abraxas is not a fake, some other nobles even had to go that far to say that they remember him as he was a kid, running behind his father.
My question is this: how should a *good* BM player approach this subject? Should he go along with that which I find to be an interesting roleplay, or should he discard the roleplay simply because the game doesn't show any records of any Mythos ever existing on my new account? I have connected the two accounts via Wiki, but it is impossible to do in the in game family records.
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sometimes i grumble in attempt to illuminate something that looks as a problem, but it is always in hope that i would not be taken too seriously as we all know that there are instances which deal with matters in formal way, while this "general discussion" is supposed to be chat, isn't it? :-\
so, i do not pretend to be judging but to express my simple player's opinion about fair play.
what you described does not look so complex in my own view. when you put so much effort to develop your characters again, rp-ed links with previous family, is that really something to be objectionable? you even call your 1-year char too young.
what we are possibly talking about is something like "hey, guys (discussion on some chat), our city is in utmost danger, who will help us with new char slots quickly? you need to be in before 6 p.m or we are doomed" or something similar.
these two cases have very little in common in my opinion. whoever puts any, even minimal effort in his chars strongly differs from those who only press buttons and use their slots, and that is plainly visible to everyone.
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LemonTree was one of Vincent van Eylen's characters (VinnieTheDark was his IRC nick, and one of his most prominent characters was Vinnie, in Darka; I don't recall where LemonTree was based). He started that page way back in the day—on the TikiWiki, as I recall—and it eventually became the go-to place for fame theories. And remains so even today, long after Vinnie left the game and most people don't remember or never knew him.
Hmm, that name sounds very familiar for me, as I know a guy with the same name... Wondering if he is the guy we are speaking about :P
Anyway, so I guess this topic keeps the search for the unknown fame points open :-D
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My question is this: how should a *good* BM player approach this subject? Should he go along with that which I find to be an interesting roleplay, or should he discard the roleplay simply because the game doesn't show any records of any Mythos ever existing on my new account? I have connected the two accounts via Wiki, but it is impossible to do in the in game family records.
I could see the players taking this one of two ways, depending on their character's point of view or agenda.
- Friends and allies of the character could believe and support the story. "Of course this is the son of Mythos. Anyone who is not blind can see the family resemblance. Indeed I saw this lad many times accompanying Mythos on some errand or other. Not only that, but look, he bears the Arrakis family signet, which I myself saw many times upon the hand of Mythos. Any who doubt the veracity of this claim cast doubt upon mine own integrity and judgment."
- Political enemies and opponents could use the break in the family history as a potential reason to cast doubt upon the lineage of the family. Perhaps these characters really aren't the return of the Arrakis family? "These foul pretenders seek to take advantage of the good name and reputation of the most prestigious Arrakis family line! Do not fall prey to their wicked deceit and lies! My good friend colleague Mythos would roll over in his grave if he knew of the trickery these pretenders plot to bring about our downfall." Etc...
Remember when Dustin got pissed off and deleted the Kabrinski family? He recreated another account without telling anyone it was him, then outed himself, and tried to claim that the character was really Allison's son. Then he deleted that second account, and recreated the Kabrinski family, and created a new Allison character claiming it was the same person. Needless to say, recreating such a controversial character met with a lot of, well, controversy. :P There are still people to this day that claim that the Allison on Dwilight is an impostor or a demon.
The key thing here is to remember that just because you want to tell a certain story doesn't mean everyone else is forced to play along. They can make up any story they want, just like you did. The break in the family line provides an opportunity to doubt the lineage of the family that is just as valid as a claim that they really are the same family. Yes, the RP opportunity to tie the two families together is pretty cool. But so is the RP chance to deny and cast aspersions on said claim. So, roll with it and see where it goes.
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Yeah, I see your reasoning. I was slightly agitated that this subject was started with an OOC objection and not IC, but heck, it doesn't matter now 'cause he brought it IC as well. But as I said, I think I defended it pretty well and the majority of people are seeing reasoning behind my role play. This debate has actually casued the noble in question in a weird way to doubt the honesty of CoI's leader and one of the longest reigning rulers of Ibladesh, so I think it kinda backfired at him. Which is nice :)
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Yeah, I see your reasoning. I was slightly agitated that this subject was started with an OOC objection and not IC, but heck, it doesn't matter now 'cause he brought it IC as well.
That can be annoying. But sometimes people like to OOC set the ground rules that govern the IC conflict. :) I think that if you managed to get the conversation moved IC, and handled it there, that you probably did a lot better than quite a few people ever managed.
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Thank you, mate :)
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The loss of fame is not, strictly speaking, a bug. To understand this, let me explain a little about how gaining fame works:
Each fame "event" has a certain number of points associated with it. When you achieve any particular such "event", the game records that you got it, and adds the number of points to your fame total.
Then, any later time that you get achieve that same event, the game checks, sees that you already have it, and doesn't give you anything.
Sometimes, though, due to one bug or other, the game adds extra points to your fame total. If this happens, the fame cleanup script (which runs either at the turn or around 10AM server time, depending on which set of scripts it belongs to—I don't recall offhand) will fix it when it goes through all your recorded fame "events", and adds up the points associated with them. If it gets a number that's different from your current fame total, it will replace your fame total with the number it got.
I hope that makes sense.
Is that script run daily?
I was at 12 points for a very long time, just got a 13th which I maintained for a week or so - then suddenly dropped to 9.
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Is that script run daily?
I was at 12 points for a very long time, just got a 13th which I maintained for a week or so - then suddenly dropped to 9.
It is—but judging from the number of people who autopaused and were autoremoved in the past couple of days, I think something must have been broken in it for at least a couple of weeks.
The odd thing is, we didn't change anything in the cleanup script at that time.
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It is—but judging from the number of people who autopaused and were autoremoved in the past couple of days, I think something must have been broken in it for at least a couple of weeks.
The odd thing is, we didn't change anything in the cleanup script at that time.
yeah, i noticed that big autopause cleanup as well. also always felt like I had more fame than I could account for, so probably has just fixed something old.
no problem, just thought I'd mention.
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Well, there's plenty of unknown fame left. For my part, I have 4-5 points that I am not sure about. Some of them I assume are points for high skills, but whereas the criteria fro those are not known with certainty, I cannot say if there might be one or two unknown fame points in there.
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LemonTree was one of Vincent van Eylen's characters (VinnieTheDark was his IRC nick, and one of his most prominent characters was Vinnie, in Darka; I don't recall where LemonTree was based). He started that page way back in the day—on the TikiWiki, as I recall—and it eventually became the go-to place for fame theories. And remains so even today, long after Vinnie left the game and most people don't remember or never knew him.
Thalmarkin, founded the short-lived Lemundia.
I didn't know he was gone... How long ago did he quit?
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Thalmarkin, founded the short-lived Lemundia.
I didn't know he was gone... How long ago did he quit?
He quit when he started university, which is... 4 years ago?
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He quit when he started university, which is... 4 years ago?
2007-07-20 LouisJoseph Joined the realm of Lemundia
Holy crap, it has been some time since...
I started playing... six years ago? Scary! :o
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I've just gained 2 mysterious fame points as well, also for a new family.
New account... and now I've got my first 5 fame points all in one day. Particularly unhelpful for me to try to work out what they were for. I have three characters (two warriors and one adventurer) who did the following:
Between Sunrise and Sunset:
Mardel - Took part on the winning side of an attacking battle to end a takeover attempt, though retreated from the battlefield in the process. 10507 vs 8763 CS.
Mardel - Gained 2 Honour and 2 Prestige from above battle
Mardel - Increased to 10 Prestige overall as result of above (1)
All Chars - Increased to 20 Prestige overall as result of above (1)
Despite these happening between sunrise and sunset, the fame points did not appear at sunset. Fame was still at 0 after sunset where I was expecting it to be 2.
Between Sunset and Sunrise:
Parve - Bought adventurer gear taking from 31% to 33%
Parve - Wounded by an alpha monster for the second time in the same region in consecutive days
Orlen - Bought from 35-50, then from 50-52 (max possible for his honour) mixed infantry troops
Orlen - Won an election for a lordship (10 votes for, 0 abstentions, 9 not cast)
Orlen - Became Lord as result of above election (1)
Orlen - Added to a realm's message group
So I was expecting to get three fame points for all that happening together, though oddly they all appeared at sunrise, not sunset, so I guess fame is only credited at sunrise each day. One for 10 Prestige for Mardel. One for 20 Prestige for them all put together. And one for Orlen becoming a Lord. But yet I got 5 fame points, so what were the other two for?
Could it be for participating in that big battle (the first really big battle he's been in, and certainly the first really big battle he's been in and helped win)? Seems one of the most likely.
Could it be for the adventurer getting more adventurer gear? Seems unlikely.
Could it be for the adventurer getting wounded by the monster? Seems also unlikely.
Could it be for winning an election? Such that winning a Lordship election gave two fame points, one for the lordship, and one for the election win? Possible, perhaps.
Could it be for recruiting over 50 troops for the first time? Possible, perhaps.
Somehow I need two fame points out of all that lot, and my bets are on winning the big battle, and getting the 50 troops, but who knows :-S
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The two common ones I could spot with Danlawyer was the recruitment of 50 troops, and the acquisition of a first fame point (though that latter one sounds like a fairly unlikely one to give fame for getting fame!), though having said that, Dan said all his mysterious fame then diappeared again the following day, so I guess I keep an eye out tomorrow and see if it drops back to 3.
psymann
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I also have 2 points that I am unsure where they came from, but have two theories:
1 from Family Prestige of 20 (but I would have to count the Prestige of an Adventurer) + 1 from Unique Item (but I would have to count a Scroll as a Unique Item).
or
2 from New Guild/Religion (but I already got the 3 points from becoming a Prophet before).
Any thoughts on what is more likely? I tend to go with the first theory.
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The "Prophet" fame (3 pts) is for being the founder of a "successful" religion. The meaning of "successful" is not yet known.
The "founding a guild/religion" fame (2 pts) is separate from that. All you have to do to get that is found a guild or religion. You only get this point once, though, for either the guild or the religion, whichever you do first.
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Oh, that means I have to recalculate things. Thanks.
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I also have 2 points that I am unsure where they came from, but have two theories:
1 from Family Prestige of 20 (but I would have to count the Prestige of an Adventurer) + 1 from Unique Item (but I would have to count a Scroll as a Unique Item).
That seems fairly reasonable.
Certainly Family Prestige of 20 does include adventurers - I've got that fame point on both my accounts at a time when I needed the adventurer's prestige to make up the numbers.
No idea about the Scroll, but I guess that makes it quite likely that Scrolls do count as Unique Items.
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That seems fairly reasonable.
Certainly Family Prestige of 20 does include adventurers - I've got that fame point on both my accounts at a time when I needed the adventurer's prestige to make up the numbers.
No idea about the Scroll, but I guess that makes it quite likely that Scrolls do count as Unique Items.
Thanks. Now I have only one unknown FP.
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And now, my adventurer has found a unique item, but I've got no extra fame for it, even though that's supposedly meant to be a known fame point. Is there some way to get a unique item fame point without actually finding a unique item? :-/ Or should I just be taking all this to the bugtracker?
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Or perhaps the fame point doesn't apply to adventurers? Think about t for a second. Adventurers are commoners, not noble. What truly noble family would acknowledge that their family tree contained commoners? Wouldn't that be a logical impossibility? What could a commoner do that could possibly bring fame to a noble family, when that family vehemently denies any such connection exists?
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Or perhaps the fame point doesn't apply to adventurers? Think about t for a second. Adventurers are commoners, not noble. What truly noble family would acknowledge that their family tree contained commoners? Wouldn't that be a logical impossibility? What could a commoner do that could possibly bring fame to a noble family, when that family vehemently denies any such connection exists?
I am 90% certain I once got a fame point for my adventurer dying.
Then again, that advy had recommendations, he just had not used them yet.
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I am 90% certain I once got a fame point for my adventurer dying.
Then again, that advy had recommendations, he just had not used them yet.
Recommendations wouldn't matter.
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I'm absolutely certain that I got a fame point when my adventurer was executed at least. I don't know how it was with the one that got killed in action before that...
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Aha, ok, so it's just not actually as definite as I thought then. I was thinking, since it was on the Fame Box page, that "Unique Item" gave fame, for definite.
Clearly either it's to do with owning a unique item, not finding one, or it's just an educated guess that isn't actually right ;-) Either way, not something for the bug tracker.
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Keep in mind that the Fame Box page is merely a player's "Best Guess" as to what gives fame. It is no more authoritative than any other player's guesses. It is much sexier, though. :P
When Gsklee started Fame Box, he tried to keep it to confirmed fame only. As far as I have seen, it has mostly stayed that way. But even so, although we know that there is a'Trader" fame point, and 3 "Legendary Hero" fame points, the exact details of how you get them may still not be known.
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Keep in mind that the Fame Box page is merely a player's "Best Guess" as to what gives fame. It is no more authoritative than any other player's guesses. It is much sexier, though. :P
When Gsklee started Fame Box, he tried to keep it to confirmed fame only. As far as I have seen, it has mostly stayed that way. But even so, although we know that there is a'Trader" fame point, and 3 "Legendary Hero" fame points, the exact details of how you get them may still not be known.
I'm about 95% certain that I got the trader fame--sold food for 50g/100 profit to a starving City, and got a fame point.
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I'm about 95% certain that I got the trader fame--sold food for 50g/100 profit to a starving City, and got a fame point.
I'm with you on that. Got a fame point after selling food to starving Wudenkin following the founding of Valhus. To be honest, I thought it was pretty widely known and had been discussed on the wiki somewhere. I guess even with the forum and IRC and everything else, there is still a lot of mystique to fame ;-)
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I'm with you on that. Got a fame point after selling food to starving Wudenkin following the founding of Valhus. To be honest, I thought it was pretty widely known and had been discussed on the wiki somewhere. I guess even with the forum and IRC and everything else, there is still a lot of mystique to fame ;-)
It's listed on LemonFame2 but not officially confirmed by Tom, last I checked.