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BattleMaster => Locals => Dwilight => Topic started by: GundamMerc on December 19, 2015, 10:36:19 PM
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The realms that made up Morek Empire are all finally at war. With Astrum and Swordfell each being outside powers helping the other side, though Astrum is more than likely just going to be busy with Morek Empire.
Helyg Derwyddon has declared war on both Morek Empire and Arnor, and nullified their alliance with Swordfell. Unfortunately there is no ruler of Astrum currently, so we will have to wait until that is solved before increasing relations with them.
Hope this turns out to be a fun war.
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Couldn't have waited until after the holidays?
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Couldn't have waited until after the holidays?
I was already getting protested for "not enough war" by my nobles. :P
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Couldn't have waited until after the holidays?
Things always seem to heat up this time of year. I guess people have more free time on Christmas break. I remember checking in Christmas morning last year.
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I don't recall that being true in previous years. You'[d think things would heat up on weekends for the same reason, but in most smaller forums or sites there is always a drop in new activity during them, which makes no sense.
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And so we shall go to war! 8)
Ohwait. What is the reason for this great northern civil war again?
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And so we shall go to war! 8)
Ohwait. What is the reason for this great northern civil war again?
Basically Helyg Derwyddon has been wanting to go to war for a while now, but couldn't because it was busy fighting Astrum. So we signed an alliance with Swordfell to throw Arnor off our tracks, as well as tricked them into getting Arnor to back off while Antiqualia used our lands for attacking Arnor. Now that the fighting with Astrum is over, we are free help our true friends, Antiqualia, and have a good fight as well.
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Basically Helyg Derwyddon has been wanting to go to war for a while now, but couldn't because it was busy fighting Astrum. So we signed an alliance with Swordfell to throw Arnor off our tracks, as well as tricked them into getting Arnor to back off while Antiqualia used our lands for attacking Arnor. Now that the fighting with Astrum is over, we are free help our true friends, Antiqualia, and have a good fight as well.
Being new here, I just want to enter battles and most likely not care for any reasons at all :)
But to hear this, it is a nice trick to pull wool over your targeted realm. Now bring over the horizon.
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We all knew that HD and Antiqualia were Lurian proxies/allies. We've known that since the two realms were created.
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AQ, arguably so, populated by former Niselurians who who a colonist expedition from Luria.
HD, not really. We share some similar ideas via religion. But there's still Eviera who has mixed views in Luria between seceding from Morek and her actions pre-secession. She is friendly with more generally anti-lurian forces. Other than that, there are teh westerners, which are somewhat integrated into both HD and Luria. But they're a rather independent lot, not beholden to others' wishes.
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We all knew that HD and Antiqualia were Lurian proxies/allies. We've known that since the two realms were created.
It's actually more that outside diplomacy has forced us to move in that direction. We wouldn't have near the close relationship we have now with Luria if the war with Astrum hadn't dragged on, and even then we don't trust them. The Alliance with Swordfell was partially to prevent Luria from betraying us and declaring war to give Westfell (the new realm to be formed from Astrum) Shomrak.
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declaring war to give Westfell (the new realm to be formed from Astrum) Shomrak.
pssst ... Westfold ... it's Westfold
Though we're still waiting on the completion of that peace arrangement with Astrum. Seems having your leader die in a duel slows things down and causes lapses in memory/motivation.
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It's actually more that outside diplomacy has forced us to move in that direction. We wouldn't have near the close relationship we have now with Luria, and even then we don't trust them.
We never let reality get in the way of a good conspiracy theory. Especially when it lets us solidify opposition against you. ;D
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The adjective "Great" gets used to describe far too many wars in this game.
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The adjective "Great" gets used to describe far too many wars in this game.
In this case it refers to the fact that the entirety of the North is involved.
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We all knew that HD and Antiqualia were Lurian proxies/allies. We've known that since the two realms were created.
And Arnor somehow gets a pass because it fits with your theory? HD isn't and has never been a Lurian proxy realm. We are a war realm and Luria fit into that narrative. We have chosen to prop up Antiqualia because we desire a diverse north lands of varied kingdoms and cultures. Whats the use of Morek splitting if its to be replaced by another realm that is basically the same?
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The adjective "Great" gets used to describe far too many wars in this game.
This made me smile ;D ;)
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And Arnor somehow gets a pass because it fits with your theory? HD isn't and has never been a Lurian proxy realm. We are a war realm and Luria fit into that narrative. We have chosen to prop up Antiqualia because we desire a diverse north lands of varied kingdoms and cultures. Whats the use of Morek splitting if its to be replaced by another realm that is basically the same?
In most cases that would be valid justification. But Antiqualia was offered a way out. They would have gotten a new realm. New name. Rural regions to feed themselves... They turned it down and got HD to help them. The varies realms and cultures argument lacks traction. From the other side it looks like lurian culture instead of varied culture.
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In most cases that would be valid justification. But Antiqualia was offered a way out. They would have gotten a new realm. New name. Rural regions to feed themselves... They turned it down and got HD to help them. The varies realms and cultures argument lacks traction. From the other side it looks like lurian culture instead of varied culture.
You confuse ESA with Lurian.
And I wouldn't sign on to be a puppet of Arnor either. That'd just turn the North into another Atamara, something I'm amazed you guys have failed to learn after Morek Empire fell apart.
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No puppet state. No Arnor nobles in their realm either.
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Killing a realm and creating a new one, just because you don't like the name a morekian (not a lurian) chose, seems like an awful lot of pointless paperwork and silliness.
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Puppet of Arnor, or Puppet of Luria. A puppet still has the hand of a man well up their behind, which isn't appealing to me either way.
Though ICly I would say, it comes down to that Antiqualia and HD never actually has disproven that they are Lurian proxy states. Whether they are or not, that is the view many realms have on them, and that is a card that is on their hand. HD possibly moreso than Antiqualia. They have a reputation of being in service of other's despite what would possibly have been more reasonable and logical. The whole thing is about perception after all. My side vs your side. Not exactly objective. HD and Antiqualia will remain saying they are independent and free of Luria, and those outside will say they look like Lurian vassals. The truth is probably a mix of the two.
As for creating a new realm for Antiqualia, I actually do like the name, so if that's the reason, then it is silly. I like it a lot more than Arnor as it is taken out of Tolkien's Lore.
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Puppet of Arnor, or Puppet of Luria. A puppet still has the hand of a man well up their behind, which isn't appealing to me either way.
Though ICly I would say, it comes down to that Antiqualia and HD never actually has disproven that they are Lurian proxy states. Whether they are or not, that is the view many realms have on them, and that is a card that is on their hand. HD possibly moreso than Antiqualia. They have a reputation of being in service of other's despite what would possibly have been more reasonable and logical. The whole thing is about perception after all. My side vs your side. Not exactly objective. HD and Antiqualia will remain saying they are independent and free of Luria, and those outside will say they look like Lurian vassals. The truth is probably a mix of the two.
As for creating a new realm for Antiqualia, I actually do like the name, so if that's the reason, then it is silly. I like it a lot more than Arnor as it is taken out of Tolkien's Lore.
So what beyond the Astrum war has shown HD to be a Lurian puppet? As I've said before, people may be confusing Luria with ESA, the two having very separate interests, though outsiders may view each as one and the same.
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Didn't HD break off from Morek?
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To me, it often seems that people see puppets where there are none and don't see puppets where they are. But I guess its all a matter of perspective.
Didn't HD break off from Morek?
Yes, by the immediately-previous, long-time ruler of Morek who has been/was long viewed within lurian circles as the main cause for the fallout between luria and morek over the years.
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To me, it often seems that people see puppets where there are none and don't see puppets where they are. But I guess its all a matter of perspective.
Yes, by the immediately-previous, long-time ruler of Morek who has been/was long viewed within lurian circles as the main cause for the fallout between luria and morek over the years.
A bit of an understatement, since Morek was at war with Luria.
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Of course it's all a matter of perspective. From Morek's point of view, HD broke away from Morek in the middle of the war, immediately made friends with Luria, and offered to make their realm the refugee realm that Luria was trying to make from Morek land. They then declared wars that very closely aligned them with Luria's politics. The rulers ancient history with Luria was irrelevant, because everyone in morek was new, and none of us knew or cared about it. HD being a Lurian puppet state was more in line with what we needed them to be. And it also made sense, when seen from our angle.
As for Antiqualia, that was even more of a slam dunk. A break away realm that immediately selected a Lurian as their ruler, aligned their politics with Luria, tried their best to keep the northern realms at war, and hosted a guild that the Lurian ambassador was trying to get everyone to join. And, as always, puppet status suited Morek's political needs.
It doesn't matter if the accusations are true or not. The accusations will continue to be made ic, so long as they are not blatantly obviously wrong, because they are politically expedient, and because they make sense to those who are making the claims.
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You confuse ESA with Lurian.
And I wouldn't sign on to be a puppet of Arnor either. That'd just turn the North into another Atamara, something I'm amazed you guys have failed to learn after Morek Empire fell apart.
And Arnor somehow gets a pass because it fits with your theory? HD isn't and has never been a Lurian proxy realm. We are a war realm and Luria fit into that narrative. We have chosen to prop up Antiqualia because we desire a diverse north lands of varied kingdoms and cultures. Whats the use of Morek splitting if its to be replaced by another realm that is basically the same?
One of the later offers to Antiqualia which was made was for them to surrender, join Spingdale to Arnor, and then refound themselves as a colony if they wanted to. They wouldn't have to permanently bee some puppet, they just had flat out refused every other (and early on they were pretty reasonable offers considering they got crushed on the field), we just didn't want them to immediately turn around and attack us again while we went fighting on another front because otherwise what the !@#$ would be the point of keeping them alive? Arnor doesn't want complete stagnation in the north and saying we want to turn it into another Atamara is silly.
Antiquallia was given plenty of chances to survive, but it has all the strength, willpower to live and character of a suicidal limp biscuit. Half their members were kicked out, fled, or went inactive and they lack anyone who has the time and energy to run the realm. They were given plenty of chances to keep living but they showed they had the same willpower and strength to live as a limp biscuit.
IC of course helping Antiqualia is perfectly valid reason. If a bit silly but whatever, the war had been boring for weeks since AQ was unable to fight back properly. Though it would have been nice to finish them off.
Personally I have never really thought of HD as a Lurian puppet, they just took advantage of the situation to go to war. On the wrong side :p
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Exactly what Indirik said. It actually does not matter what the truth is on the matter OOCly, ICly it will be used against HD and Antiqualia that they are puppet states. It actually matters very little.
For what HD has done, well the Astrum war was very suspicious when you saw the peace negotiation that was in place at one point. Then there is Antiqualia (being considered a Lurian proxy) that was struggling, and attacked Arnor from HD lands, while HD officially did not condone this, they later did and joined Antiqualia. This lead to a slight outlash naming HD dishonourable and the like. The IC reputation stems from IC actions that can be connected to overall being aligned with Lurian ideals. In truth whether they are is another matter, but politically it has and will be used against HD by others. Like I said, I expect the truth to be much more nuanced than that.
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Of course it's all a matter of perspective. From Morek's point of view, HD broke away from Morek in the middle of the war, immediately made friends with Luria, and offered to make their realm the refugee realm that Luria was trying to make from Morek land. They then declared wars that very closely aligned them with Luria's politics. The rulers ancient history with Luria was irrelevant, because everyone in morek was new, and none of us knew or cared about it. HD being a Lurian puppet state was more in line with what we needed them to be. And it also made sense, when seen from our angle.
As for Antiqualia, that was even more of a slam dunk. A break away realm that immediately selected a Lurian as their ruler, aligned their politics with Luria, tried their best to keep the northern realms at war, and hosted a guild that the Lurian ambassador was trying to get everyone to join. And, as always, puppet status suited Morek's political needs.
It doesn't matter if the accusations are true or not. The accusations will continue to be made ic, so long as they are not blatantly obviously wrong, because they are politically expedient, and because they make sense to those who are making the claims.
You realize part of the reason people protested in Morek was because some of the Morekians didn't give two !@#$s about giving land we couldn't use anyways to the refugees in Luria, right? Our characters felt that Morek Empire was a bloated realm greedily holding onto lands it didn't have lords for, and nobles such as Helm were too unwilling to give up the lands in order to gain a more secure control over a smaller number of regions.
As for your first point Ossan, a temporary puppet is still a puppet, and not in control of its destiny.
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Oswaldo hates Luria :p
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I was one of the major instigators in my realm in supporting a free Antiqualia. I am not a Lurian, I was part of Luria because of the refugee movement but many of us have scattered or joined HD. I don't have anything against Luria and perhaps one day i'll go there to fight and break it up too but until then I am determined to keep the northlands a diverse collection of warring mini-kingdoms. Mainly because its fun and mainly because I know if we let it return to a single realm region it will become very boring again. I go where the fighting is.
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I want to keep the north with lots of realms so we have lots of choices for war too, but I don't see a future for AQ anymore either :(
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There is a rumbling in the west...
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You realize part of the reason people protested in Morek was because some of the Morekians didn't give two !@#$s about giving land we couldn't use anyways to the refugees in Luria, right? Our characters felt that Morek Empire was a bloated realm greedily holding onto lands it didn't have lords for, and nobles such as Helm were too unwilling to give up the lands in order to gain a more secure control over a smaller number of regions.
You do realize that my character was one of the ones advocating abandoning the northern regions, settling the non-existent "western refugees" there, and making friends with them, right?
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You do realize that my character was one of the ones advocating abandoning the northern regions, settling the non-existent "western refugees" there, and making friends with them, right?
That was my point.
And the refugees are not non-existant, who do you think the nobles of Antiqualia and HD are?
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Many of us are in Luria still as well... Still waiting on Astrum to make good.
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Many of us are in Luria still as well... Still waiting on Astrum to make good.
Unterstrom just switched to Luria. You could always wait in HD for the new realm to be formed. It's much closer. *blatant recruitment attempt is blatant*
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Would also like to point out that Arnor+Morek+Swordfell vs Antiqualia is very much an Atamaran pattern of conflict.
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Didn't Swordfell join because of what HD did though, or am I remembering wrong? Could likely be I am.
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Didn't Swordfell join because of what HD did though, or am I remembering wrong? Could likely be I am.
Swordfell joined before we did, actually, and still haven't declared war on HD. In fact I had to drop our relationship to neutral because it was messing up the diplomacy system for Antiqualia and us.
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Swordfell joined before we did, actually, and still haven't declared war on HD. In fact I had to drop our relationship to neutral because it was messing up the diplomacy system for Antiqualia and us.
The more you know. A bit on the other side of the world for me after all haha.
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Would also like to point out that Arnor+Morek+Swordfell vs Antiqualia is very much an Atamaran pattern of conflict.
well, when they refused very generous surrender terms we had no choice. One realm can't attack a single fortified city especially when they can draft peasants as militia. Look at Sirion and Oligarch on EC. Very similar situation here. In fact now that the assault on Springdale failed and HD made some political blunders with their war declarations it is unlikely that Springdale will ever be assaulted again. We'll take the food producing regions from HD so they can't feed Springdale and then the city will slowly starve.
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well, when they refused very generous surrender terms we had no choice. One realm can't attack a single fortified city especially when they can draft peasants as militia. Look at Sirion and Oligarch on EC. Very similar situation here. In fact now that the assault on Springdale failed and HD made some political blunders with their war declarations it is unlikely that Springdale will ever be assaulted again. We'll take the food producing regions from HD so they can't feed Springdale and then the city will slowly starve.
Oh, you had a choice. Not every war needs to devolve into a siege of a city, in fact a fluid war between just Arnor and Antiqualia would have been much more fun. But no, the rulers of Swordfell, Arnor, and Morek seem to spit in the face of anything remotely resembling fun, forming a coalition to demolish anything that should stand against them in the North. It's like the Theocracies all over again, and mark my words that what Arnor, Morek, and Swordfell are doing will lead to a very boring north.
My war declarations weren't "political blunders", it was meant to establish a meaningful conflict. But god forbid Morek follow through with its conflict with Astrum, or Arnor deal with its own issues in Antiqualia by themselves. God forbid anybody in the North not ally with everyone in sight. So go ahead, take our rurals, starve Springdale into submission, knowing you guys probably even destroy HD. Don't come crying to me when Morek Empire v2.0 leads to a mass of bloated realms with nobles leaving left and right out of shear boredom for greener pastures.
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Oh, you had a choice. Not every war needs to devolve into a siege of a city, in fact a fluid war between just Arnor and Antiqualia would have been much more fun. But no, the rulers of Swordfell, Arnor, and Morek seem to spit in the face of anything remotely resembling fun, forming a coalition to demolish anything that should stand against them in the North. It's like the Theocracies all over again, and mark my words that what Arnor, Morek, and Swordfell are doing will lead to a very boring north.
So go ahead, take our rurals, starve Springdale into submission, knowing you guys probably even destroy HD.
Do you even have any idea of what's been going on? There was literally nothing left to do BUT assault Springdale, AQ was dying, half its nobles were gone, and the other half barely active and refusing to surrender. What the hell do you suggest we should have done, given them back some regions and then crush them again?
We're not going to destroy HD unless you refuse to surrender. Even if we DID destroy it we would refound it because Arnor can't hold on to those lands with the new changes and we don't want them anyway.
Don't come crying to me when Morek Empire v2.0 leads to a mass of bloated realms with nobles leaving left and right out of shear boredom for greener pastures.
I am sure we won't need to.
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The old federations in the north still stand. HD ( god I hate our realm name ) is the only one trying to maintain small goal oriented alliances and fighting conflicts for RP reasons and not because we want to rule the north.
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You should have declared war on Morek and not Morek and Arnor. If you would have declared war on Morek you would have forced Arnor to drop alliance with Swordfell in order to fight HD.
Morek vs HD is actually a fairly even fight. Would have been fun.
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The old federations in the north still stand. HD ( god I hate our realm name ) is the only one trying to maintain small goal oriented alliances and fighting conflicts for RP reasons and not because we want to rule the north.
No you're no, though AQ certainly seems to not be trying either given they don't even want to keep living.
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No you're no, though AQ certainly seems to not be trying either given they don't even want to keep living.
They seemed eager enough to join the attack on Cold Spring, and only diplomacy hijinks prevented that from being interesting.
You should have declared war on Morek and not Morek and Arnor. If you would have declared war on Morek you would have forced Arnor to drop alliance with Swordfell in order to fight HD.
Morek vs HD is actually a fairly even fight. Would have been fun.
Why? I have no reason to war Morek alone. And I honestly doubt Arnor would have even bothered, they could have just gone neutral and attacked our forces in an offensive, letting Morek do the takeovers. So your reasoning is false.
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They seemed eager enough to join the attack on Cold Spring, and only diplomacy hijinks prevented that from being interesting.
Why? I have no reason to war Morek alone. And I honestly doubt Arnor would have even bothered, they could have just gone neutral and attacked our forces in an offensive, letting Morek do the takeovers. So your reasoning is false.
Your arguments make no sense. I'm sorry, but its virtually impossible to discuss these things with you. Glaumring too...
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Your arguments make no sense. I'm sorry, but its virtually impossible to discuss these things with you. Glaumring too...
I'm saying Arnor can still fight our forces while only being at neutral relations with us if we were allied to Swordfell. They just can't defend a takeover. Or are you purposefully being obtuse?
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Dustole, I'll grant you that it's difficult to siege a one city realm, but certainly not impossible. After your initial hit, you can wait for the peasant militia to disappear a bit and then strike again. Also, the militia is all melee, so if you use your archers wisely in the next siege you can still win.
The defense of Oligarch costs about 6k gold on top of the huge income of the city. There aren't that many realms, especially one city realms, who could afford such a war. If you keep pounding Springdale, smartly, they won't stand a chance. Sirion made quite some mistakes in the sieges themselves as well and Oligarch gained a lot of nobles as well, which AQ doesn't have. Then again, Arnor doesn't have that many knights either.
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Springdale is a very rich city. Not as much as oligarch but still...
In Dwilight we have the benefit of the donut townslands. Unlike other continents we can actually siege the city. There is lots of militia in the townslands around the city so its really simple to just let them rot. Repeated assaults against a heavily fortified city to wear them down over time is no fun. Especially when you need 2-3 realms armies just to have equal CS not counting the walls.
Antiqualia got themselves into this position. They declared war foolishly. They turned down at least 2 overly generous peace deals and several other less generous ones.
Now HD declares war on essentially all 3 of their neighbors with no militia defenses and their army had sailed north to enter a besieged city leaving 3 armies to march through their lands unnopposed. Further, they left 2500 bushels of food for us in Nihm when we took it.
HD should realize their mistake and sue for peace while they've only lost one region. Talk some sense into Antiqualia and help spin off a new realm in Springdale with nobles from all 4 northern realms.
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Springdale is a very rich city. Not as much as oligarch but still...
In Dwilight we have the benefit of the donut townslands. Unlike other continents we can actually siege the city. There is lots of militia in the townslands around the city so its really simple to just let them rot. Repeated assaults against a heavily fortified city to wear them down over time is no fun. Especially when you need 2-3 realms armies just to have equal CS not counting the walls.
Antiqualia got themselves into this position. They declared war foolishly. They turned down at least 2 overly generous peace deals and several other less generous ones.
Now HD declares war on essentially all 3 of their neighbors with no militia defenses and their army had sailed north to enter a besieged city leaving 3 armies to march through their lands unnopposed. Further, they left 2500 bushels of food for us in Nihm when we took it.
HD should realize their mistake and sue for peace while they've only lost one region. Talk some sense into Antiqualia and help spin off a new realm in Springdale with nobles from all 4 northern realms.
Which would bring back the collective Morek Empire, sounds like a good plan :)
Trust me, you can defeat Springdale but it may take some time and some smarts. With the townsland surrounding them, there is little they can do in the first place. If you don't have the patience to siege a city, then that is your issue at this point. You succeeded last time and fighting peasant militia on the walls is much easier due to it's melee origin.
In this pace though you'll find the south much more interesting than the north again in a month from now, curious how all will develop.
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Which would bring back the collective Morek Empire, sounds like a good plan :)
Trust me, you can defeat Springdale but it may take some time and some smarts. With the townsland surrounding them, there is little they can do in the first place. If you don't have the patience to siege a city, then that is your issue at this point. You succeeded last time and fighting peasant militia on the walls is much easier due to it's melee origin.
In this pace though you'll find the south much more interesting than the north again in a month from now, curious how all will develop.
That would require Arnor to revamp their whole army and somehow convince the bulk of their nobles to recruit archers. Too easy to tread in the inalienable rights. War with HD will be more fun. Antiqualia has chosen to die by boredom. Why give them the pleasure of assaulting their walls?
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Why does a new realm need formed? Can't you just...change the government without going through the hassle of destroying and recreating a realm?
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Because the realm is tainted. They need to capitulate. Otherwise it makes no sense to just hand over regions. The capitulation should be more than symbolic.
A new realm would start fresh and wouldn't have the taint from Fulco? Was that his name? Old ruler in Darfix who has made poor choices and committed betrayal more times than I can remember.
Also I hate the realm name. A fresh start let's them forge their own identity and not have their history around their neck like a heavy yoke.
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Because the realm is tainted. They need to capitulate. Otherwise it makes no sense to just hand over regions. The capitulation should be more than symbolic.
A new realm would start fresh and wouldn't have the taint from Fulco? Was that his name? Old ruler in Darfix who has made poor choices and committed betrayal more times than I can remember.
Also I hate the realm name. A fresh start let's them forge their own identity and not have their history around their neck like a heavy yoke.
Dude, you're the only one who even thinks of it that way. You may have been able to make things interesting in the past, but I think you're becoming much more conservative and have lost your touch.
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Because the realm is tainted.
What is tainted that can't be removed by dealing with the nobles? A realm is only the sum of its nobles. The fact that recently their history is unacceptable? Such will fade in time, especially if you deal with the nobles within the realm.
They need to capitulate. Otherwise it makes no sense to just hand over regions. The capitulation should be more than symbolic.
Publicly surrendering, with all the acknowledgements of 'we done wrong', and having the government members step down to put a new government into power (whether of their own choice, your choice, or something in-between), isn't non-symbolic capitulation?
A new realm would start fresh and wouldn't have the taint from Fulco? Was that his name? Old ruler in Darfix who has made poor choices and committed betrayal more times than I can remember.
And what will the history of an old ruler matter with new government and direction?
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You might be right. It's not my decision though. I had a great deal lined up for them. They are not interested in capitulation. Their ruler seems to think there is some glory in fighting to the last. Which is very dumb. They've already lost over half their nobles trying that. That's why I say let them rot and starve. There is no glory in fighting to the last. If they really think that then deny them that priveledge. Let them rot and starve.
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I don't really care more about the IC aspects of the discussion, we could be discussing Kepler and Evilburg for all I care. I just want to point out how redundant it seems to do what you wish. The name issue was perhaps the only thing that did seem sensible for requiring a new realm. The rest seems perfectly possible without a week-long capital TO and several more weeks of creating new-realm delays, depending on how well-oiled the plan is.
Delays such as, are you creating a new duchy for the new realm? Wait another two weeks if you haven't made the duchy yet. Or using an existing duchy to secede asap after taking city? You saved two weeks. Are you going to linger around more weeks and months to get everything perfectly ready for the new realm, but oh wait, now the realm needs to finish a new war before we can form the new realm? Etc.
Fighting to the last is at least engaging to the players. I enjoy the diversity of experiences in realms making the decision to bend the knee for survival and revenge-another-day (or not) or fighting to the glorious end; different realms have different cultures and histories affecting such decisions. I don't fault Barca for choosing to fight to the glorious end, nor do I fault Fissoa or Astrum for coming to terms. Eponllyn has both accepted terms and decided to fight to the bitter end, at different times (yay, we survived our fight to the bitter end!). The various Vales of Beluaterra have alternated between the two extremes, as well. Neither fighting to the end or accepting terms to survive another day are bad in and of themselves. As long as the path is engaging to the players of the nobility. I suspect more players were lost while they were only sitting in the city, not actively engaging the enemy. Letting them rot and starve doesn't increase player engagement.
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The new realm idea was mostly just a last proposal kind of thrown out there because they'd rejected everything else and refused to accept defeat which is long past the point of stubborn foolishness. I doubt anyone expected it to be accepted and I don't agree they need to form a new realm.
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Considering the mass spamming of militia that Arnor is obssessed with, I personally wouldn't mind a game mechanic that causes militia to get a bit power-hungry and declare themselves independent when the militia outnumbers mobile forces by the margin it does in Arnor. I've seen 20k militia at the least in three regions alone (none of which was a city), while their mobile army I've seen barely keeps pace with our own despite them having 50% more nobles than us we had 7k CS at the most, and only 5k CS are in the region their army is taking over currently.
It's killing any kind of fun fight that could be had.
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You might be right. It's not my decision though. I had a great deal lined up for them. They are not interested in capitulation. Their ruler seems to think there is some glory in fighting to the last. Which is very dumb. They've already lost over half their nobles trying that. That's why I say let them rot and starve. There is no glory in fighting to the last. If they really think that then deny them that priveledge. Let them rot and starve.
I can tell you from experience that there can be great glory by fighting to the last!
I've led Sartania to her doom, almost destroying Arcaea, but when Lasanar split up the war turned south and ultimately she was destroyed. The entire war on both sides and everything around it was great untill the end. And even now you have Sartanians roaming the earth, but we fought till the last. I was there when Ibladesh came to her end. I can assure you that I personally had more fun and glory in those two realms than I for instance had in Abington during the last week or so (before that it was a lot, a lot of fun) where the Dukes split up the realm into Suville and Caergoth in order to survive.
And AQ isn't dead yet, if they find something entertaining to do in the meantime they just have to wait until Arnor is busy to assault (hopefully finding an ally in the process to take the townsland).
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Well, there are tradeoffs, and you've noticed them. If you become heavily dependent on militia, you have less gold available, whcih results in a smaller mobile force. So because most of their CS is stationary and not mobile, they're perhaps much more defended, but far less flexible in responding to attacks from different directions.
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Well, there are tradeoffs, and you've noticed them. If you become heavily dependent on militia, you have less gold available, whcih results in a smaller mobile force. So because most of their CS is stationary and not mobile, they're perhaps much more defended, but far less flexible in responding to attacks from different directions.
Except the fact that you can support far more CS in Militia than you can in a mobile force, so it serves to allow a realm to support for more CS than it should be able to (to the point where they can block off entire fronts). Any attempt to attack is ultimately futile, as the lord can just put more militia there to replace it. Militia is too easy to recruit and too hard to destroy. It doesn't serve to create fun, it just stagnates a conflict. I personally could have just as easily put up a wall of militia to keep out Arnor and Morek. I chose not to, because I don't want this war to turn into a boring staring contest where every realm involved loses nobles in droves.
I'm not going to be the one to cause stagnation in all of this, that depends on what Arnor and Morek do after this war.
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Considering the mass spamming of militia that Arnor is obssessed with, I personally wouldn't mind a game mechanic that causes militia to get a bit power-hungry and declare themselves independent when the militia outnumbers mobile forces by the margin it does in Arnor. I've seen 20k militia at the least in three regions alone (none of which was a city), while their mobile army I've seen barely keeps pace with our own despite them having 50% more nobles than us we had 7k CS at the most, and only 5k CS are in the region their army is taking over currently.
It's killing any kind of fun fight that could be had.
But their whole army wasn't doing the take over. Part of it was in the north fighting by Springdale.
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But their whole army wasn't doing the take over. Part of it was in the north fighting by Springdale.
5k CS in the south doing the takeover and about 2k CS fighting Springdale. Yes, I know. Again, that about equals what we fielded against Astrum.
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Welcome to my prison!
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I noticed.
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I do agree with Dustole here that militia should be nerfed somehow. But the exact way of doing so is very difficult. And yes I'm saying that even though I pumped Oligarch full with militia when Sirion came knocking. Even then I was already saying it, but while it's there I'll use the militia just as Sirion does.
I have made the statement though that I will not use the peasant militia should they ever breach the walls. That game mechanic is a total fail in my eyes.
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I'm not going to be the one to cause stagnation in all of this, that depends on what Arnor and Morek do after this war.
What Morek does? Don't blame this on us. You're the one that declared the war.
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What Morek does? Don't blame this on us. You're the one that declared the war.
??? How does that change the outcome of Arnor taking Springdale and having sovereignty over most of Morek Empire's old territory, plus allies north and south of Astrum, Helyg Derwyddon, and soon to be Westfold?
Besides, Morek has had plenty of chances to make a meaningful conflict out of this, but has taken the easy road throughout.
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??? How does that change the outcome of Arnor taking Springdale and having sovereignty over most of Morek Empire's old territory, plus allies north and south of Astrum, Helyg Derwyddon, and soon to be Westfold?
Besides, Morek has had plenty of chances to make a meaningful conflict out of this, but has taken the easy road throughout.
meaningful conflict? We went from 4 nobles protesting each other to having a 2 noble mobile army to assist in a battle of Springdale. We managed only a 50% movement rate for that combat and went to refit.
Now we have more nobles, but it still took me 10days to get half the army to arrive in Zhongyuan. We've had about all of the meaningful contribution to this conflict that we can manage. Had I not bought Nihm we'd still be there trying to do a take over. Now, we might be able to start a take over of Zhongyuan if we're lucky.
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meaningful conflict? We went from 4 nobles protesting each other to having a 2 noble mobile army to assist in a battle of Springdale. We managed only a 50% movement rate for that combat and went to refit.
Now we have more nobles, but it still took me 10days to get half the army to arrive in Zhongyuan. We've had about all of the meaningful contribution to this conflict that we can manage. Had I not bought Nihm we'd still be there trying to do a take over. Now, we might be able to start a take over of Zhongyuan if we're lucky.
That's your problem, you're waiting for the army to be ready. Rule #1 of Armies: they're never ready. If you wait for them, then they'll become lazy and wait even more for you.
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That's your problem, you're waiting for the army to be ready. Rule #1 of Armies: they're never ready. If you wait for them, then they'll become lazy and wait even more for you.
Um what? It wasn't a blanket order: go to Zhongyuan. We went from region to region. Trying 2 turn moves trying this trying that. The point is that my army only has 3 or 4 active nobles. The rest can be expected to catch up within a coupe days. Some only move on weekends which makes for following an army impossible. So how is that exactly the "easy road" explain how Morek could have done something more to make this a meaningful conflict?
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That's your problem, you're waiting for the army to be ready. Rule #1 of Armies: they're never ready. If you wait for them, then they'll become lazy and wait even more for you.
... ::)
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... ::)
I don't see you doing much to make things interesting.
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That's how Battlemaster kind of works, you can't see everyone else's messages, so I'd hope you haven't.
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I'm no longer ruler, but I am still General. Yay!
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I honestly had no idea that elections were going on, kind of funny timing that you ended up in jail for them.
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Gulp! Im now ruler of HD. Send all your hatemail to me now!
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Gulp! Im now ruler of HD. Send all your hatemail to me now!
Put me back in as duke you silly person you. :P
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Gulp! Im now ruler of HD. Send all your hatemail to me now!
You smell like a hamster.
*licks chops*
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Gulp! Im now ruler of HD. Send all your hatemail to me now!
Still have to work a bit on my infil skills, but I'd be happy to deliver you the mail personally if you want :)
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Is getting captured by the enemy part of the rites of rulership in HD now?
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Couldn't be a coronation without it!
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Is getting captured by the enemy part of the rites of rulership in HD now?
I am starting to think that its the only way my character will die, out of boredom in some prison cell. I can't seem to kill him by fighting entire armies alone so essentially i'm immortal or going to die of old age, anyways its fun. I really enjoy the ups and downs of this character.
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I'm surprised that two rulers in a row of HD are on what appears to be a suicide sprint head first into a stone wall. I'm waiting for some brilliant tactic or some random ally to pop up and save you. I thought for sure the new realm would be helping you since they are Asylonians, but they signed a peace treaty right away. I offered them peace to see if they would take it and they did. So that makes me think they aren't going to help HD. HD bought some time with what appears to be a fake ceasefire offer and now the war 3v1 war against HD starts up again. 3v1 of their instigating for what its worth.
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I'm surprised that two rulers in a row of HD are on what appears to be a suicide sprint head first into a stone wall. I'm waiting for some brilliant tactic or some random ally to pop up and save you. I thought for sure the new realm would be helping you since they are Asylonians, but they signed a peace treaty right away. I offered them peace to see if they would take it and they did. So that makes me think they aren't going to help HD. HD bought some time with what appears to be a fake ceasefire offer and now the war 3v1 war against HD starts up again. 3v1 of their instigating for what its worth.
You know, you could be less of a dick.
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Pot, meet Kettle. Kettle, this is Pot.
On a more serious note, I don't really understand what HD is up to. I have some ideas, but it seems kind of far fetched.
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Pot, meet Kettle. Kettle, this is Pot.
On a more serious note, I don't really understand what HD is up to. I have some ideas, but it seems kind of far fetched.
It's basically what happens when one Ruler is stuck in prison for nearly 5-6 days, is defeated in the election, the other ruler has no idea what the previous ruler had been attempting to do, attempts to go in a separate direction, then gets himself captured by enemy forces.
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between Kuriga and Glaumring I've seen each capable of much craftiness and neither should be underestimated. My post was trying to convey my nervousness. I expected the new realm in Untertrom to be founded much sooner than it was and that they would support HD. Winter really slowed things down. Your ruler should be able to get out of jail and reinvigorate the cease fire talks before you lose anymore regions.
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We had intended to "launch" Westfold well before Christmas but events internal to Luria and Astrum (such as the inopportune death of the Vasilif and a bug discovered in the secession code) slowed us down somewhat. I sure would have liked to have been able to recruit newcomers from the sunk islands.
Still, here we are finally.
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It's basically what happens when one Ruler is stuck in prison for nearly 5-6 days, is defeated in the election, the other ruler has no idea what the previous ruler had been attempting to do, attempts to go in a separate direction, then gets himself captured by enemy forces.
Well if Eviera would ever reply to my request for a prisoner exchange agreement this would be less of an issue :p
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Well if Eviera would ever reply to my request for a prisoner exchange agreement this would be less of an issue :p
I know the player of Eviera OOG, and they are not as invested in the game as they used to be. Keep trying for our sake though.
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She's always been slow to reply.
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Well if Eviera would ever reply to my request for a prisoner exchange agreement this would be less of an issue :p
But this would get in the way of our Coronation Ceremony?
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Well he still spent a day in there.
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Kuriga and butt heads, I think he takes it more seriously than I but I am generally ok with that. You cannot have a good story without drama.
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Nice typo there. ;)