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BattleMaster => BM General Discussion => Topic started by: Bael on July 11, 2013, 04:47:38 PM
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Has it been suggested in the past regarding a "Total War" kind of option or declaration - as in war until destruction rather than surrender? I wouldn't want to draft a feature request if it's been rejected before or if it's unworkable in the eyes of the devs.
One can declare hatred, when in war. The war will continue until one of the realms is destroyed.
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One can declare hatred, when in war. The war will continue until one of the realms is destroyed.
I don't think this is true... I believe you can declare peace with such a realm, but there will be negative repercussions in your regions. I may not have that right though. It's been a while since I saw anyone try it.
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I don't think this is true... I believe you can declare peace with such a realm, but there will be negative repercussions in your regions. I may not have that right though. It's been a while since I saw anyone try it.
You are correct. Late in the Hammarsett war, I found out that the game mechanics allow you to take back Hatred at severe cost to region stats. I believe you move to plain War, though, not peace.
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Hatred is the only one-sided relationship in the game. It is possible for A to hate B, but B to not hate A. All other relationships are two-way. i.e., you cannot be at War with a realm that is not at War with you. But you *can* Hate a realm that does nto Hate you.
Once you have declared Hatred toward a realm, you can no longer change the relations from your side. The only way to get get out of Hatred is to let the *other* realm propose to change it. If *both* sides declare Hatred, then it can never be changed. Both realms are locked in Hatred for the rest of their existence.
Edit: Sorry for the tangent...
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Hatred is the only one-sided relationship in the game. It is possible for A to hate B, but B to not hate A. All other relationships are two-way. i.e., you cannot be at War with a realm that is not at War with you. But you *can* Hate a realm that does nto Hate you.
Once you have declared Hatred toward a realm, you can no longer change the relations from your side. The only way to get get out of Hatred is to let the *other* realm propose to change it. If *both* sides declare Hatred, then it can never be changed. Both realms are locked in Hatred for the rest of their existence.
Edit: Sorry for the tangent...
If this is the case, then I'm confused. The decision was clearly mine to make when I was Consul. Besides, what option (talking game mechanics links, here) would that fall under? For your own diplomacy, you're at war; you can descend into hatred or upgrade to peace. Though, I would expect an error message for peace.
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If this is the case, then I'm confused. The decision was clearly mine to make when I was Consul. Besides, what option (talking game mechanics links, here) would that fall under? For your own diplomacy, you're at war; you can descend into hatred or upgrade to peace. Though, I would expect an error message for peace.
Most likely you had received an offer to exit it from Hammarsett's ruler.
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Hatred is the only one-sided relationship in the game. It is possible for A to hate B, but B to not hate A. All other relationships are two-way. i.e., you cannot be at War with a realm that is not at War with you. But you *can* Hate a realm that does nto Hate you.
Once you have declared Hatred toward a realm, you can no longer change the relations from your side. The only way to get get out of Hatred is to let the *other* realm propose to change it. If *both* sides declare Hatred, then it can never be changed. Both realms are locked in Hatred for the rest of their existence.
Edit: Sorry for the tangent...
Are you sure about that? Has hatred changed in the last few years? Used to be that although hatred was one-sided, it was possible to restore more reasonable relations again later on. You could unilaterally end your hatred of another realm, but there would be significant penalties across your own realm for doing so. Something to do with how you've previously denounced those people as less than human, devil incarnate etcetera and the common people aren't about to just forget about all that at the click of your fingers. It would only bump you back up to war status as well. To actually end the war you would need the opposing realm to overlook all that to join you at the peace table.
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Are you sure about that? Has hatred changed in the last few years? Used to be that although hatred was one-sided, it was possible to restore more reasonable relations again later on. You could unilaterally end your hatred of another realm, but there would be significant penalties across your own realm for doing so. Something to do with how you've previously denounced those people as less than human, devil incarnate etcetera and the common people aren't about to just forget about all that at the click of your fingers. It would only bump you back up to war status as well. To actually end the war you would need the opposing realm to overlook all that to join you at the peace table.
This is very very very similar to what I remember seeing. /end tangent
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You are correct. Late in the Hammarsett war, I found out that the game mechanics allow you to take back Hatred at severe cost to region stats. I believe you move to plain War, though, not peace.
The effects didn't seem that dramatic when I turned back from hatred... Less dramatic then what my character advertized, at least.
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Are you sure about that? Has hatred changed in the last few years? Used to be that although hatred was one-sided, it was possible to restore more reasonable relations again later on. You could unilaterally end your hatred of another realm, but there would be significant penalties across your own realm for doing so. Something to do with how you've previously denounced those people as less than human, devil incarnate etcetera and the common people aren't about to just forget about all that at the click of your fingers. It would only bump you back up to war status as well.
I don't believe that was ever the case. Once Hatred was declared, the declaring realm could NOT end the war. There was simply no option to declare a cease fire with the Hated realm. That's the whole point of declaring Hatred: You force the realm to fight the war to the end. It's "you go or I go" situation. The only way out of a Hatred declaration was to get the other realm to propose a cease fire. The realm that declared the Hatred could then accept the proposed cease-fire, resulting in the region stat hits, but ending the war.
If it operated in some other manner, then it is almost certainly a bug. Seeing as how Hatred is so rarely used, and that most of the realms that declare a Hatred usually end up getting destroyed, this feature doesn't get a lot in in-use testing.
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Is there any advantage to declaring Hatred, or is it just RP?
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Is there any advantage to declaring Hatred, or is it just RP?
Under the old systems, regions were harder to takeover
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Is there any advantage to declaring Hatred, or is it just RP?
I believe that, as Indirik said, if both warring parties declare Hatred, it becomes permanent.
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I believe that, as Indirik said, if both warring parties declare Hatred, it becomes permanent.
There's an impact at the region level. Sympathy for a realm you're at hatred with will drop dramatically in your regions, making it ultimately more difficult for your opponent to hold onto your regions if they conquer them. It can slow them down.
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There's an impact at the region level. Sympathy for a realm you're at hatred with will drop dramatically in your regions, making it ultimately more difficult for your opponent to hold onto your regions if they conquer them. It can slow them down.
Or is there? I haven't observed this, despite the flavor text. We kept getting messages about locals being unhappy with the war with Sint. Seemed more like fluff text than anything.
Also, when I ceased the hatred, it had a message about morale loss among the soldiers. I did not notice drops in region stats.
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Or is there? I haven't observed this, despite the flavor text. We kept getting messages about locals being unhappy with the war with Sint. Seemed more like fluff text than anything.
The Farronite alliance with Asylon is regularly whalloping their region stats, and even made some revolt.
It's way more than just flavor text.
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The Farronite alliance with Asylon is regularly whalloping their region stats, and even made some revolt.
It's way more than just flavor text.
You misunderstood: declaring hatred on Sint did not seem to make the peasants dislike Sint any more. They still kept protesting the war.
I never questioned the impacts of sympathy regarding warfare, but only the impacts of hatred declarations on sympathy.
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Or is there? I haven't observed this, despite the flavor text. We kept getting messages about locals being unhappy with the war with Sint. Seemed more like fluff text than anything.
Also, when I ceased the hatred, it had a message about morale loss among the soldiers. I did not notice drops in region stats.
Well I have no proof. That was just my understanding. It could easily be wrong.
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I don't believe that was ever the case. Once Hatred was declared, the declaring realm could NOT end the war. There was simply no option to declare a cease fire with the Hated realm. That's the whole point of declaring Hatred: You force the realm to fight the war to the end. It's "you go or I go" situation. The only way out of a Hatred declaration was to get the other realm to propose a cease fire. The realm that declared the Hatred could then accept the proposed cease-fire, resulting in the region stat hits, but ending the war.
If it operated in some other manner, then it is almost certainly a bug. Seeing as how Hatred is so rarely used, and that most of the realms that declare a Hatred usually end up getting destroyed, this feature doesn't get a lot in in-use testing.
Well, I have ended hatred status a couple of times and what you're saying doesn't chime with my memories of it at all. It's a completely one-sided declaration that affects only your own realm. You whip the peasants into a frenzy to make them more resilient during war. You can end hatred status later on yourself, but at significant penalties. It had nothing to do with foreign rulers. Yes, for as long as you have hatred status there cannot be a ceasefire or peace or what have you. Hatred essentially blocks peace from your side. But if you should chose to at some stage take the hit and try and calm the peasants down from their hatred, you go back to normal warlike relations and diplomacy can again resume.
Edit: Can we actually get clarification from other devs on this? It sounds to me like either hatred has changed in more recent years (which is entirely possible) or that this is one of those things that happens rarely enough that everyone is a bit hazy on it. I might even be misremembering some stuff myself but the way that hatred has been described really does sound alien to what it used to be like.
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When, as ruler of Minas Ithil, I tried to break the hatred with Minas Leon, I was not allowed. I was told Mioas Leon had to make the first step. I didn't care enough to actually ask them to do so, though.
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As far as I remember, it works the wat Chenier is describing. When I was a ruler on BT back in 2007, that's the wat it worked. Someone declared hatred on us, and we had to be the ones to propose the ceasefire.
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Fair play, I think I'm wrong on this one. I think I've probably misremembered the way it worked. Have this vague idea that maybe I did need to work with another realm when I last lifted a hatred. Seems strange though. You whip your peasants into a frenzy but they won't be calmed down until the very ruler of evil incarnate agrees to raise relations with you? One of those curious BM-isms I guess!
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I *think* the flavor text that accompanies it talks about how now that you've denigrated the other realm so badly, that you couldn't possibly talk them down. That you'd certainly be lynched, or something like that. Beyond that, it's an option to provide certain benefits to the realm while fighting the war. In order to preserve balance in the game, benefits have to come with disadvantages. You can't have options that provide nothing but benefits.