BattleMaster Community
BattleMaster => Locals => Dwilight => Topic started by: Nosferatus on April 11, 2011, 09:43:19 AM
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I heard that players in averoth claim that the GM's are openly abusing there powers to win an in game war against there characters.
I also heard averoth uses family gold all the time to finance there armies and that the GM's now made it for averoth impossible to take out family gold.
What is happening up there?
I haven't heard of such accusations since avamar.
I know tom would do as less as possible to intervene in the game, so this comes quite as a shock.
How much of it is true and how serious is the situation?
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I heard that players in averoth claim that the GM's are openly abusing there powers to win an in game war against there characters.
I also heard averoth uses family gold all the time to finance there armies and that the GM's now made it for averoth impossible to take out family gold.
What is happening up there?
I haven't heard of such accusations since avamar.
I know tom would do as less as possible to intervene in the game, so this comes quite as a shock.
How much of it is true and how serious is the situation?
I will try to be as neutral as possible in this reply as this threat can quickly spiral out of control. Also, I believe it's better for the GM's to go in the details if they feel like so.
What you said happened more in Thulsoma actually, I don't know to which extent the whole business was translated into Averoth to be honest. The main point is that it caught the attention of the GMs how relatively tiny realms were mustering insane armies relatively to their size, and it was discovered that the methods they used to foster gold exploited what were considered loopholes in the family gold system. The issue was fixed quite some time ago and that is all I know.
If you want to consider this an action taken by GMs against Averoth/Thulsoma, I would say it's just the natural consequence when someone evidences a weakness in a system. The GMs noticed something wrong they were not aware of due to the actions of the players, and fixed it. Clearly this created a feeling of persecution to the people of Thulsoma/Averoth that believe it was done on purpose to let them lose.
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For one I believe it is your own choice to use family gold to aid you in your war efforts. A lot do it all the time through family investments. But it is only realistic that at some point your family will cutt you off from the family treasurer for some time becuase you only take gold out of it but never contribute to it. But it isn't impossible for Averoth to use family gold. And I think we should not see it as a personal attack on Averoth.
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I will try to be as neutral as possible in this reply as this threat can quickly spiral out of control. Also, I believe it's better for the GM's to go in the details if they feel like so.
What you said happened more in Thulsoma actually, I don't know to which extent the whole business was translated into Averoth to be honest. The main point is that it caught the attention of the GMs how relatively tiny realms were mustering insane armies relatively to their size, and it was discovered that the methods they used to foster gold exploited what were considered loopholes in the family gold system. The issue was fixed quite some time ago and that is all I know.
If you want to consider this an action taken by GMs against Averoth/Thulsoma, I would say it's just the natural consequence when someone evidences a weakness in a system. The GMs noticed something wrong they were not aware of due to the actions of the players, and fixed it. Clearly this created a feeling of persecution to the people of Thulsoma/Averoth that believe it was done on purpose to let them lose.
Personally i think it's ridiculous to claim that the GM's are intentionally using there GM powers to win there ic wars.
Do the players know that the changes made are made threw out the game, as a fix?
This reminds me when Tom stoped playing his own game because people acused him of doing the same.
It's quite rude and mean of them as well, since they demand the GMs and even the creator of the game NOT to play there own game but just to do all the work to make it possible for the rest.
Because every time some character loses something against a GM character, people start accusing them of these ridiculous claims.
I'd like to see the topic 'spiral out of control' because this is in my opinion a seriously horrible way of thinking, which ruins my favourite game for over the past 6+ years.
The gms acn't solve issues like this at all.
Only we, as a community can.
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Because every time some character loses something against a GM character, people start accusing them of these ridiculous claims.
The nice thing is that there were no devs or GMs involved in the northern dwilight wars as far as I know. I completely agree with the rest of what you wrote.
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I think we are just dealing with very angry teens lol. I mean they were the ones who abused the glitch and now they are complaining? They should have been banned for not reporting a bug like that and exploiting it for so long. You don't start with 1k gold because they want you to use all of it. It is there to help you start your character up :P
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The accusations began in Thulsoma, and moved to Averoth when the Thulsomans did. However, there are some among them who have borne a grudge against Tom for years, due to other similar issues in the past. Furthermore, the accusations are more than just of "GM interference:" they claim that Sanguis Astroism, due to being led by GMs, as they believe, is able to request Tom to (for instance) change monster/undead spawning patterns, lock or avoid locking people, and change the code however they want. All of these are, of course, completely false—including the notion that Sanguis Astroism is led by GMs. As far as I know, there is 1 person who might qualify in the religion, and he doesn't take much of an active role nowadays. Nor is he a coder.
Family gold access has not been cut off for anyone; however, it is no longer possible to request family gold, send the money away or put it in a guild, and then immediately request more. There is a waiting period after requesting gold before you can request again. This is also true of visiting your family home and getting gold from your aunt, though the waiting periods are different. I am the one who implemented this, so I know whereof I speak when I say that it was not done because I, or anyone else, wanted Sanguis Astroism to succeed. I have no particular interest in Sanguis Astroism, and when I did, it was in keeping it relatively weak.
This reminds me when Tom stoped playing his own game because people acused him of doing the same.
That wasn't quite what happened. I pointed out that, because he was known to be playing the ruler of a realm, people would tend to try to become allies of it, and avoid becoming enemies of it, simply because they knew he was its ruler. Not because of anything he was doing consciously, nor necessarily even that they were doing it consciously, but that such a pattern would be logical, and had, indeed, emerged. (I don't think I did so in quite such rational tones, but we were all a bit upset by then.)
I think we are just dealing with very angry teens lol.
I don't know how old any of the people involved are. However, I do know that their reactions and beliefs are very immature and foolish. I know teenagers (and pre-teens) who are far more mature and able to handle being told they can't play a certain way without throwing a tantrum or blaming it on the Big Bad Meanie who won't let them do whatever they like.
The gms acn't solve issues like this at all.
Only we, as a community can.
This is part of the problem with OOC cliques, too, especially large ones. They control the realm so completely that they have no need of people from outside their clique who try to join Averoth, so there no one there to be a voice of reason countering their wild claims or pointing out the flaws in their logic. It's just one big echo chamber for their poisonous views.
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I heard that players in averoth claim that the GM's are openly abusing there powers to win an in game war against there characters.
This is patently ridiculous. There is, so far as I know, only one "GM" on Dwilight, and he (they?) run the Zuma. There are no other "GMs" on Dwilight.
No doubt what they are referring to as "GMs" are really dev team members that play on Dwilight. I play the recently elected ruler of Astrum (elected after Rowan Geronus was killed in battle), Tim used to play ruler of Pian, but he paused. Bedwyr plays Koli, down in Pian en Luries (or Luria Nova). I don't offhand know of any other dev team members that play on Dwilight.
Anyway, the dev team has no access to the live server on which the game actually runs. We can't do anything to the live server at all. All the code changes made by the dev team are uploaded personally by Tom the live server. We have a dev server we can use for testing, but that is completely isolated, and I don't think it's even hosted on the same physical machine. The only person that has access to the live server is Tom. So the only way for the various supposed abuses to have occurred is for Tom himself to have made the changes. And if anyone thinks that Tom would make those kinds of changes, they may as well just quit. (Personally, I think that if any of us asked Tom to make those changes, he'd probably yank our dev access on the spot.)
Also, if we're supposedly using our god-mode GM powers to win, then how come I'm still losing the war? >:(
I also heard averoth uses family gold all the time to finance there armies and that the GM's now made it for averoth impossible to take out family gold.
I think that Peri covered this best. When the dev team becomes aware that a certain facet of the game is being abused, they work to fix those loopholes. Those that have been using those loopholes will of course feel targeted by the changes.
Yes, changes have been made to the family gold system to plug these loopholes. I'm pretty confident that the changes were made in such a way that the vast majority of the players will never encounter any of these limits. (Except possibly the short waiting period between successive requests.)
For one I believe it is your own choice to use family gold to aid you in your war efforts.
The dev team agrees. And even under the new restrictions (which are extremely loose) it is absolutely still possible to do so. But family gold is no longer an endless fountain of free gold, which it was never intended to be.
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The dev team agrees. And even under the new restrictions (which are extremely loose) it is absolutely still possible to do so. But family gold is no longer an endless fountain of free gold, which it was never intended to be.
The changes are contributing to the realism. And it is only untill recently that I discovered the restrictions myself as I relied on my family's gold reserve to finance my unit in Barca. But it is seldom that I ask for family gold. However, I can understand the need for it in Averoth to ask for some extra funds more regularly. But they will learn to live with it.
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Regarding the family gold loophole:
To clarify precisely what was going on, it got brought to the attention of the devs because certain families had drained their coffers to a degree that made everyone on the dev team sit up and go "what the hell?" simultaneously. Was kinda funny to watch, actually.
Asking your aunt at your family home for gold did not, previously, have an effect on your balance with your family (which determines things such as H/P losses for calling family assistance, and the point at which they stop sending you funds). Family wealth also regenerated (relatively) rapidly on its own below a certain point. No one had previously envisioned what it would look like if a large number of characters had their family home in the same place and systematically gamed the system in this fashion. What it ended up looking like is penalty-free gold to the tune of four, possibly five figures, that kept regenerating.
As has been explained elsewhere, coders can't fix problems until they realize a problem exists. No one had imagined that these features could be combined in a way that was clearly detrimental to the game, and as soon as it was noticed measures were taken to correct that. The measures should have no effect on anyone who isn't already at the limit of what a given character can take from their family.
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My aunt never gives me gold :'(
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My family home is on a continent which none of my characters play on. :'(
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Regarding the family gold loophole:
To clarify precisely what was going on, it got brought to the attention of the devs because certain families had drained their coffers to a degree that made everyone on the dev team sit up and go "what the hell?" simultaneously. Was kinda funny to watch, actually.
Asking your aunt at your family home for gold did not, previously, have an effect on your balance with your family (which determines things such as H/P losses for calling family assistance, and the point at which they stop sending you funds). Family wealth also regenerated (relatively) rapidly on its own below a certain point. No one had previously envisioned what it would look like if a large number of characters had their family home in the same place and systematically gamed the system in this fashion. What it ended up looking like is penalty-free gold to the tune of four, possibly five figures, that kept regenerating.
As has been explained elsewhere, coders can't fix problems until they realize a problem exists. No one had imagined that these features could be combined in a way that was clearly detrimental to the game, and as soon as it was noticed measures were taken to correct that. The measures should have no effect on anyone who isn't already at the limit of what a given character can take from their family.
Ordenstaat did the same thing a while back, until it was reported to the Titans, and about half the realm got locked as multis. They also set up their religion "Cult of Orden" with those family funds, and I believe it still exists with 5 priests wandering around in rogue lands, converting peasants.
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My family home is on a continent which none of my characters play on. :'(
I'm actually about to visit my family home :P
It was only when I read this thread that I realised that it was about to happen lol! Totally forgot about it until the little light-bulb "appeared" above my head.
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I think another agravating problem we see in Averoth is Tom´s message accusing people of cheating, because the realm has 50+ nobles and only two regions.
And also how a noble was deported from Averoth because his name was not helping the Medieval atmosfere, only after he was elected judge of the realm (and it seems that when he was a regular noble his name wasn´t a problem).
All this led to a conclusion about the GM´s or Titans or whomever is playing against Averoth is using OOC tools to win the war.
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50+ characters in a 3 region realm IS suspicious, no matter which way you look at it, especially on Dwilight where a 1 noble per island rule is in place. To give you an example:
Averoth is in 2nd out of 16 places in amount of nobles. (not counting Entai)
It is 15th out of 16 in amount of regions. (again not counting Entai)
That's not normal. The only realms who've had such numbers were filled with multies. Draw your own conclusions.
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I think another agravating problem we see in Averoth is Tom´s message accusing people of cheating, because the realm has 50+ nobles and only two regions.
That's not why he sent the message.
And also how a noble was deported from Averoth because his name was not helping the Medieval atmosfere, only after he was elected judge of the realm (and it seems that when he was a regular noble his name wasn´t a problem).
That happened when it did because new Titans were named, and were able to act on the problem. It had nothing to do with him being the Judge.
All this led to a conclusion about the GM´s or Titans or whomever is playing against Averoth is using OOC tools to win the war.
No, that conclusion was drawn long before, by people determined to see everyone at fault but themselves. People who believe that it's their right to exploit any possible loophole to get ahead, just because they're a small realm facing a behemoth.
It doesn't work that way.
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Well was just telling what I saw/see I'm not in the realm for a long time. joined because a friend told me it was a good and fun place to be.
At least for the time I was/am there those are the reasons given to this conclusion.
50+ characters in a 3 region realm IS suspicious, no matter which way you look at it, especially on Dwilight where a 1 noble per island rule is in place. To give you an example:
Averoth is in 2nd out of 16 places in amount of nobles. (not counting Entai)
It is 15th out of 16 in amount of regions. (again not counting Entai)
That's not normal. The only realms who've had such numbers were filled with multies. Draw your own conclusions.
Well friends can be invited to play together, I until recently i had a char in the same realm a close friend of mine...and we both never did any illegal thing.
But well, Im just waiting for Tom´s decision on this...
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...a friend told me it was a good and fun place to be.
Were they right?
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Were they right?
Yes and no, I´m still not too into Dwilight right now, my realm in Beluaterra is in trouble so I´m more focus on that now (i´m the ruler). But it has been a good place to be...at least there is some active people and IC letters to read there
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Well was just telling what I saw/see I'm not in the realm for a long time. joined because a friend told me it was a good and fun place to be.
At least for the time I was/am there those are the reasons given to this conclusion.
Well friends can be invited to play together, I until recently i had a char in the same realm a close friend of mine...and we both never did any illegal thing.
But well, Im just waiting for Tom´s decision on this...
Inviting a friend isn't illegal, I've recruited one or two myself. However, when 38 out of 50 nobles in your 3-region realm all consistently move within 2 hours of turn change, then there's something fishy going on. No such thing as that much coincidence, take it from a former multi-cheater.
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Inviting a friend isn't illegal, I've recruited one or two myself. However, when 38 out of 50 nobles in your 3-region realm all consistently move within 2 hours of turn change, then there's something fishy going on. No such thing as that much coincidence, take it from a former multi-cheater.
If you count that these 2h are when usually most players log in the game, then it is not that fishy or suspicious...
I´m not defending multi-cheaters or the realm, I just tought I could add somethings on why most players in Averoth think the GM´s, the Dev team members, and/or the Titans are using OOC things to win a IC war.
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Twist it any way you want, 75% of your players logging into the game 2 hours before turn is not normal.
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Maybe someone could try and check their ips? :)
Well I check my chars whenever the turn changes. I literally wait on the char page refreshing until the turn changes. :)
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Holy hell. He is the most angry a** ever lol. So why was he kicked? I don't think you would get kicked from naming the guy 'Lex'. Can you?
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stuff
Considering you are so set in your persecution complex, I suppose you haven't considered that both of the events you named generate island-wide messages. Just because something is not noticed within its own realm does not mean it no eyebrows will be raised when it is shouted to the entire island.
More importantly, it is not allowed to publicly object to Titan decisions. It is stated very clearly that all objections should be brought to Tom and only to Tom, and I feel that if you don't respect this game enough to do even this you will not be missed.
Good luck in your life.
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If you put The House Of in your name, it is directly in violation of the naming rules as far as I remember. Other then that, most name violations only get caught if someone reports it. It could just be that since you started warring another nation, the name was noticed by someone new that reported it. There is no need to jump to the conclusion that OOC crap is happening due to 1 person getting a titan reprimand, unless you are saying Averoth is lost without you.
With regards to the army, in my opinion it is somewhat of a OOC clan issue if a large group of you always play together in realms in order to be a super effective strike force. To me part of the game is doing what you can in a realm with the nobility that ended up their, not calling in a team of elite players. Its not really against the rules, but that doesn't mean its good for the game.
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Yes I agree. The fun of this game is where you have to learn to work with players you do not know. :)
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All these accusations are completely ridiculous, and no self respecting player should believe them.
There is NOTHING suspicious about the number of nobles in Averoth. Before Thulsoma's fall, Thulsoma had 25 nobles, and Averoth had 26, Thulsoma banned about five of them, and executed 1, Averoth lost a few also. The current number of Averothian nobles is derived from a mixture of original Averothian's, 15 of the 25 Thulsomans, some defectors from Astrum and Libero Empire, and a few others from Summerdale and Caerwyn. By sheer mathematics, the number is actually lower than it should be if we are all multiple accounts, and if we were multiple accounts, don't you think we'd be doing better?
As for our fast movement rates, well like Lex said, if you live in Europe, then Turn change conveniently comes just after the time you get home from school, or work, whereas the morning turn change happens before you get up, generally. So late turn moves are far from suspicious, besides which, Thulsoma always had excellent movement rates, and late turn movements, and so did Averoth. If you like, I can copy half a dozen orders from Sextus where he clearly orders us to make a later turn move as possible, or only sends the orders an hour or two before turn change. So to sum up, there is absolutely nothing suspicious about our numbers of nobles, or their movement.
Lets compare it to Astrum, Astrum had 42 nobles before the war with Averoth, now they have 62, that's an increase of around 20 nobles, and Thulsoma only gave Averoth an increase of 15 nobles, and yet it is somehow suspicious when Thulsoma joins Averoth? But not when Astrum gets an even greater number of nobles? Where else was Thulsoma going to go? IC we hate Summerdale, Libero Empire wouldn't agree to our terms, Caerwyn were to complacent, and Averoth was our only ally, the only realm that helped us and defended us, and the only realm that was fighting our enemies. Besides which, Averoth is a genuinely pleasant realm to be in, by contrast the prevailing image we get of the SA realms, is that they are all very bitchy and rude, with no roleplays and no fun wars. There is nothing at all fun in fighting a gang war on a tiny three region realm when combined you control most of the continents wealth and military power, BUT it is insanely fun to fight the fight of an underdog against impossible odds, that's why so many nobles loved Thulsoma, ignoring the epic roleplay, friendly atmosphere and fun players, the war was incredible. It was a heady sort of awesome to be a badass "no nonsense" sort of realm that said to the continent leaders that they can shove their influence up their arse and leave us alone, I can tell you, realms that are subservient in those situations sicken me, but they are also the norm, which is another reason why Thulsoma was at times hilarious, I can remember multiple instances where I and a lot of other members in the realm burst out laughing at some remark or other about continental happenings.
By sheer comparison, Averoth and Thulsoma make for better realms than the SA realms. They have a good sense of community and friendship, they have roleplays and a fun war, and they have players who go out of their way to make you feel welcome and to become your friends. SA realms just seem really grumpy and moody, a bunch of complacent players sitting around doing nothing, never saying anything, until there is a chance of them to have a massive gang war. Looking at it objectively, the war on Thulsoma was utterly pathetic, and so is the war on Averoth, but what's truly pathetic is all the Out of Character griping coming from Astroism, why? Because we're defending ourselves, we're not rolling over and dying. Would you like the war to last a month and be no challenge at all? Or like Thulsoma, a war that lasts over a year and has the biggest battles ever seen on the continent, and has the best roleplay and contributes the most to the continent? It's ridiculous, it really does seem like SA is super pissy because they aren't getting their own way, which is to say, having everything come easy to them on demand.
I was there in Thulsoma when we were actually shown messages of SA discussing how to get Thulsoma banned, it was sickening.
"Oh, they once tried to merge, can we get them banned for that?"
"They claim to be Saxons, can we report them for that?"
"Is their religion a copy of Anglo Saxon Paganism, isn't that punishable by game rules?"
"They usurped the realm, they aren't allowed to do that!"
And yes, I am not !@#$ting you, these were ACTUAL messages shown to us Out of Character about stuff being said in Astromancy. Did we bitch about it? No. Did we ever resort to OOC insults and accusations? No. When some player in SA, put obvious multiple accounts into Thulsoma to have them rebel, did we do all we could to have all the SA realms deleted? No, we treated it entirely In Character, and if the player behind it is reading, they surely remember that we used their obvious OOC multiple accounting as an excuse to make epic roleplays, execute a Morekian and demand death duels from them.
Thulsoma and Averoth, are better realms run by better players, the best in the game in my opinion. If nothing else, we go out of our way to accommodate friend or foe, to make the best out of a bad situation. Those in Astrum can see that, I got moved to Astrum by a bug, did I bitch about it? No, I used it as a perfect chance to RP and get Astrum to RP back to me, I at least had fun, I hope some of you in Astrum did as well.
If Averoth gets ban hammered for this clear OOC prejudice and lies, then I won't ever return to this game. I am fed up of listening to spiteful and petty players trying to destroy everything we worked so hard to make, the work of years of effort and mutually collaboration just because they cannot get their own way in the game.
I swear this game is rocketing downhill because of some players determined to destroy us on any level possible.
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The Forum is not the place to protest Titan decisions. That is only to be done by sending an e-mail to Tom himself. Abusive behaviour and swearing at other players is not suitable for the Forum either.
The violating message has been removed. Let's be civil, hm?
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Wow, Lex complained, his message got deleted.
Puts me in mind of "Lex got successful in Averoth, then he got deported".
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All these accusations are completely ridiculous, and no self respecting player should believe them.
Several of us have seen multis and other behaviour that is similar to this. However, I've also seen behaviour like this that wasn't due to multis, and the only abuse that has been substantiated was the eminently provable family gold loophole in Thulsoma.
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Wow, Lex complained, his message got deleted.
Puts me in mind of "Lex got successful in Averoth, then he got deported".
He violated the rules on how to appeal Titan decisions and used extremely abusive language. Those are the two reasons why it was deleted.
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Several of us have seen multis and other behaviour that is similar to this. However, I've also seen behaviour like this that wasn't due to multis, and the only abuse that has been substantiated was the eminently provable family gold loophole in Thulsoma.
Well, if it was a loophole, then WHY didn't you fixed the loophole? Not bar access.
Stop the mass generating gold supply, instead of having some ridiculous comment from your "Aunt", who is apparently now some sort of critic fitting to tell a highly reputed and successful General to essentially "Get a job".
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I don't understand why people are so pissed about the whole deal. We should all just calm down and try to play the game. You cannot win in this game as Tom stated so don't try to win it omg!
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Well, if it was a loophole, then WHY didn't you fixed the loophole? Not bar access.
Stop the mass generating gold supply, instead of having some ridiculous comment from your "Aunt", who is apparently now some sort of critic fitting to tell a highly reputed and successful General to essentially "Get a job".
The loophole was closed. The aunt code now takes into account your balance with your family, and the endless regeneration is gone. The fact that your balance is so negative is the issue. Still works for people without balance problems.
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I don't understand why people are so pissed about the whole deal. We should all just calm down and try to play the game. You cannot win in this game as Tom stated so don't try to win it omg!
Well your not the one being threatened with deletion because your IC opponents can't separate IC differences, from OOC.
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All these accusations are completely ridiculous, and no self respecting player should believe them.
There is NOTHING suspicious about the number of nobles in Averoth. Before Thulsoma's fall, Thulsoma had 25 nobles, and Averoth had 26, Thulsoma banned about five of them, and executed 1, Averoth lost a few also. The current number of Averothian nobles is derived from a mixture of original Averothian's, 15 of the 25 Thulsomans, some defectors from Astrum and Libero Empire, and a few others from Summerdale and Caerwyn. By sheer mathematics, the number is actually lower than it should be if we are all multiple accounts, and if we were multiple accounts, don't you think we'd be doing better?
As for our fast movement rates, well like Lex said, if you live in Europe, then Turn change conveniently comes just after the time you get home from school, or work, whereas the morning turn change happens before you get up, generally. So late turn moves are far from suspicious, besides which, Thulsoma always had excellent movement rates, and late turn movements, and so did Averoth. If you like, I can copy half a dozen orders from Sextus where he clearly orders us to make a later turn move as possible, or only sends the orders an hour or two before turn change. So to sum up, there is absolutely nothing suspicious about our numbers of nobles, or their movement.
Lets compare it to Astrum, Astrum had 42 nobles before the war with Averoth, now they have 62, that's an increase of around 20 nobles, and Thulsoma only gave Averoth an increase of 15 nobles, and yet it is somehow suspicious when Thulsoma joins Averoth? But not when Astrum gets an even greater number of nobles? Where else was Thulsoma going to go? IC we hate Summerdale, Libero Empire wouldn't agree to our terms, Caerwyn were to complacent, and Averoth was our only ally, the only realm that helped us and defended us, and the only realm that was fighting our enemies. Besides which, Averoth is a genuinely pleasant realm to be in, by contrast the prevailing image we get of the SA realms, is that they are all very bitchy and rude, with no roleplays and no fun wars. There is nothing at all fun in fighting a gang war on a tiny three region realm when combined you control most of the continents wealth and military power, BUT it is insanely fun to fight the fight of an underdog against impossible odds, that's why so many nobles loved Thulsoma, ignoring the epic roleplay, friendly atmosphere and fun players, the war was incredible. It was a heady sort of awesome to be a badass "no nonsense" sort of realm that said to the continent leaders that they can shove their influence up their arse and leave us alone, I can tell you, realms that are subservient in those situations sicken me, but they are also the norm, which is another reason why Thulsoma was at times hilarious, I can remember multiple instances where I and a lot of other members in the realm burst out laughing at some remark or other about continental happenings.
By sheer comparison, Averoth and Thulsoma make for better realms than the SA realms. They have a good sense of community and friendship, they have roleplays and a fun war, and they have players who go out of their way to make you feel welcome and to become your friends. SA realms just seem really grumpy and moody, a bunch of complacent players sitting around doing nothing, never saying anything, until there is a chance of them to have a massive gang war. Looking at it objectively, the war on Thulsoma was utterly pathetic, and so is the war on Averoth, but what's truly pathetic is all the Out of Character griping coming from Astroism, why? Because we're defending ourselves, we're not rolling over and dying. Would you like the war to last a month and be no challenge at all? Or like Thulsoma, a war that lasts over a year and has the biggest battles ever seen on the continent, and has the best roleplay and contributes the most to the continent? It's ridiculous, it really does seem like SA is super pissy because they aren't getting their own way, which is to say, having everything come easy to them on demand.
I was there in Thulsoma when we were actually shown messages of SA discussing how to get Thulsoma banned, it was sickening.
"Oh, they once tried to merge, can we get them banned for that?"
"They claim to be Saxons, can we report them for that?"
"Is their religion a copy of Anglo Saxon Paganism, isn't that punishable by game rules?"
"They usurped the realm, they aren't allowed to do that!"
And yes, I am not !@#$ting you, these were ACTUAL messages shown to us Out of Character about stuff being said in Astromancy. Did we bitch about it? No. Did we ever resort to OOC insults and accusations? No. When some player in SA, put obvious multiple accounts into Thulsoma to have them rebel, did we do all we could to have all the SA realms deleted? No, we treated it entirely In Character, and if the player behind it is reading, they surely remember that we used their obvious OOC multiple accounting as an excuse to make epic roleplays, execute a Morekian and demand death duels from them.
Thulsoma and Averoth, are better realms run by better players, the best in the game in my opinion. If nothing else, we go out of our way to accommodate friend or foe, to make the best out of a bad situation. Those in Astrum can see that, I got moved to Astrum by a bug, did I bitch about it? No, I used it as a perfect chance to RP and get Astrum to RP back to me, I at least had fun, I hope some of you in Astrum did as well.
If Averoth gets ban hammered for this clear OOC prejudice and lies, then I won't ever return to this game. I am fed up of listening to spiteful and petty players trying to destroy everything we worked so hard to make, the work of years of effort and mutually collaboration just because they cannot get their own way in the game.
I swear this game is rocketing downhill because of some players determined to destroy us on any level possible.
You created a forum account just for that post? Amusing. To me its not that the number of players in Averoth implies multies. It is that the standard game mechanics are not designed for a realm of that size to support that many nobles with a reasonable income. Sure I'm aware of many ways to work around that, but to me and I suppose other players, that is pretty much against the spirit of the game. Like Tom has said, the game is meant to be played as if you are playing a board game with friends.
To me a largish group of players, that purposely play together in realms because they know they are super effective together, who have admitted to attempting to unravel the game mechanics in what appears to be a manner similar to the worst excesses of min/max of MMORPG games etc is not behavior I would expect from my friends in a board game. Nor is the constant complaints of a OOC conspiracy based on such flimsy evidence. If the devs and Titans had any interest in destroying you, don't you just think they would declare half the realm multies and lock the accounts?
When you have 50 nobles supported by two regions people are going to be suspicious. Some people are going to take those suspicions too far and make unfounded accusations. When you react like a bunch of kids throwing a tantrum, you are simply going to reinforce the idea amongst those that are already pre-disposed to believe it.
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Well your not the one being threatened with deletion because your IC opponents can't separate IC differences, from OOC.
You are not being threatened with anything. You may have heard OOC crap, I have no firsthand knowledge of that, but I can assure you that if you were being threatened, you'd have a bright shiny golden message from the Titans with the threat.
Now are you going to calm down and discuss this like a reasonable person?
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You created a forum account just for that post? Amusing. To me its not that the number of players in Averoth implies multies. It is that the standard game mechanics are not designed for a realm of that size to support that many nobles with a reasonable income. Sure I'm aware of many ways to work around that, but to me and I suppose other players, that is pretty much against the spirit of the game. Like Tom has said, the game is meant to be played as if you are playing a board game with friends.
To me a largish group of players, that purposely play together in realms because they know they are super effective together, who have admitted to attempting to unravel the game mechanics in what appears to be a manner similar to the worst excesses of min/max of MMORPG games etc is not behavior I would expect from my friends in a board game. Nor is the constant complaints of a OOC conspiracy based on such flimsy evidence. If the devs and Titans had any interest in destroying you, don't you just think they would declare half the realm multies and lock the accounts?
When you have 50 nobles supported by two regions people are going to be suspicious. Some people are going to take those suspicions too far and make unfounded accusations. When you react like a bunch of kids throwing a tantrum, you are simply going to reinforce the idea amongst those that are already pre-disposed to believe it.
Well, use your imagination, there are more ways to get gold than through tax days. That said, we looted more than a thousand gold from Astrum, in effect.
Besides, how can you rule out foreign backing from realms to affraid to fight themselves?
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You are not being threatened with anything. You may have heard OOC crap, I have no firsthand knowledge of that, but I can assure you that if you were being threatened, you'd have a bright shiny golden message from the Titans with the threat.
Now are you going to calm down and discuss this like a reasonable person?
I am discussing it.
And by all accounts, we were threatened. Tom told us to give up our accounts as multi's or he'll take them out.
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I am discussing it.
And by all accounts, we were threatened. Tom told us to give up our accounts as multi's or he'll take them out.
By what accounts? Did you receive notice from Tom himself? Did you receive an official Titan warning?
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By what accounts? Did you receive notice from Tom himself? Did you receive an official Titan warning?
I mean the term.
"By all accounts he said he would"
Kind of thing, accounts as in, your recounting.
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I mean the term.
"By all accounts he said he would"
Kind of thing, accounts as in, your recounting.
Did you, or did you not, receive a message directly from Tom or the Titans?
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Well, use your imagination, there are more ways to get gold than through tax days. That said, we looted more than a thousand gold from Astrum, in effect.
Besides, how can you rule out foreign backing from realms to affraid to fight themselves?
Like I said, I can see way of doing it, but personally don't agree with most of them. Its just an opinion. And no, I doubt that on Dwilight, given the military strength the possible realms that would want to oppose Astrum, that such a force could be funded properly from Foreign Backing. I could be wrong, but I have a hard time seeing it.
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I think you are just bluffing bro. You wouldn't even get a warning. You will just lose your multies if you are actually cheating. And if it was a mistake he will give it back to you. Tom wouldn't threaten you because there is no reason to. He will just hammer you.
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And by all accounts, we were threatened.
This implies that you personally never received any such message. Therefore, you are repeating an unsubstantiated rumor.
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Did you, or did you not, receive a message directly from Tom or the Titans?
This. This is what I would personally like to see answered.
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I think you are just bluffing bro. You wouldn't even get a warning. You will just lose your multies if you are actually cheating. And if it was a mistake he will give it back to you. Tom wouldn't threaten you because there is no reason to. He will just hammer you.
Tony is quite right. If Tom has evidence of cheating he will lock your accounts, no warning, and you can email him if you think it was unfair. Every year or two there's a multi sweep, with messages posted on the login page.
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From Saxon Thulsoma to Caerwyn and Averoth , these guys sure believe a lot of rumours... Its just a game, we are not out to get you...
On another note I remember when I was in old Thulsoma with 12 to 15 nobles and it being difficult to support and pay for things.. I cannot imagine 51 in a realm of the same size. It doesn't make sense for long term, short term sure... But weeks after week it would seem that 80% of the nobles in the realm are unitless and crying for 5 gold and or ransacking the population for gold, and the other 20% are sitting on units of 3-5... Please don't tell me these are huge armies they have.
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Did you, or did you not, receive a message directly from Tom or the Titans?
Yes, they did.
Unfortunately, RL has come up and I can't sort this out right now, but I did warn the entire realm that I really hate digging deep into this multi-stuff because it always takes hours of work to sort things out so we are at least reasonably sure. And if they come clean, I'd reward the honesty.
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maybe we should ask our selves as community what we can do to prevent these kind of thoughts about the dev team.
It really gets me upset to see people think this way about the people who VOLUNTARILY make this into the greatest game i've ever played and kept it non-commercial.
I can't think of anything we could do apart from starting to play there and discuss the issue.
These players don't seem to be much active on this forum either.
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I will second that opinion... Greatest game I have ever played and its essentially a wall of text. lol ;D
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There's been a lot of accusation that the "GMs" are purposely out to get a certain group of players.
Well, let me tell you, if that were actually true, they wouldn't have been able to get as far as they have.
If I were out to get Averoth, I'd sneak some code in that would skew battle results subtly but inexorably in favour of all their enemies.
If the only actual GM (in BM terminology) on Dwilight, the one playing the Zuma, were out to get Averoth, he'd maneuver an army of 100K CS of Daimons to their capital and then burn it to the ground.
If the Titans were out to get Averoth, they'd lock or deport a lot more of them (there's certainly evidence enough).
If Tom were out to get Averoth, he'd just IP-ban all their accounts.
This is the problem with a confirmation bias: every time something happens that you can twist to be evidence of your particular beliefs, you see it as confirming your suspicions.
It is particularly bad when your suspicion is that the people in charge of a game are out to get you. That leads to abuse being directed at them, and attempts to flout their authority. Then said abuse gets posts deleted and accounts locked, and attempts to flout authority get characters punished and loopholes closed. Then they see all this happening to them, and say, "Look! It's just more proof! The GMs are against us!"
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SA realms just seem really grumpy and moody, a bunch of complacent players sitting around doing nothing, never saying anything, until there is a chance of them to have a massive gang war. Looking at it objectively, the war on Thulsoma was utterly pathetic, and so is the war on Averoth, but what's truly pathetic is all the Out of Character griping coming from Astroism, why? Because we're defending ourselves, we're not rolling over and dying. Would you like the war to last a month and be no challenge at all? Or like Thulsoma, a war that lasts over a year and has the biggest battles ever seen on the continent, and has the best roleplay and contributes the most to the continent? It's ridiculous, it really does seem like SA is super pissy because they aren't getting their own way, which is to say, having everything come easy to them on demand.
Uhm well to try and keep things a bit IC, it was my opinion that Thulsoma and Averoth were not at all fun realms where to play, being the few interactions I had with them underlying arrogance and savage egocentrism. I believe my view as opposed to yours is just healthy ignorance due to not knowing the enemy realms. Perhaps Morek is not one of the most active places around, but I wouldn't call it grumpy or moody.
You call the war against Thulsoma pathetic, and in several places I managed to hear people bragging on how thulsoma was successful in drawing su much hate. Do you realize how long SA tolerated Thulsoma before wiping it out? Do you realize how many times we just ignored the arrogant and offensive tones of their ruler and their nobles? SA never decided "hey let's kill thulsoma cause it's tiny and defenseless", but you can't truly expect nothing to follow such a rude attitude against someone that is, by all means, more powerful than you.
And to unravel things more, do you truly believe that a NORMAL realm big as Thulsoma would have required 3/4 big realms together to wipe it out? I still remember how Haruka bragged regularly in her RPs about how saxons was not defeated by half the world. If you stop and think about it, you realize that the gangbang assumed such proportions because something was wrong there. You had normal realms on one hand, and something that deviated consistently from the standard gold/cs ratio. You cannot expect a different outcome, and again I stress it was called upon Thulsoma by themselves.
To summarize: the war was pathetic because a ruler of a tiny realm managed to insult basically everyone that was around it, and because thanks to "clever management of gold" they managed to muster a force that was not possible to defeat without resorting to several realms together. Where is SA guilt here, I don't understand. We reacted IC to provocations, and called upon more and more armies when it was clear we couldn't breach Thulsoma with just Morek and Libero.
About the OOC things in SA, again it's just a matter of frustration. I had nice battles against Thulsoma and I did some nice RPs there. It was fun to have someone playing the arch enemy, doing evil things whenever possible. But since all this was caused by the exploiting of a loophole, the fun was not very consistent. OOC rants can be quite common if you fight according to the rules against someone that does not, and especially if that someone brags on a daily basis on how strong they are and how weak are all those fools who still try to play fairly.
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All 51 of those nobles are probably the same person... :P
And that post about grumpy SA is priceless... :o
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All 51 of those nobles are probably the same person... :P
Substantiate, or recant. That is an insult.
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All 51 of those nobles are probably the same person... :P
I know you meant that as a bit of a Joke, but really it is necessary. At this stage all we know is that Tom has sufficient evidence to suspect that SOME of the characters MAY be multies. No need to tar and feather an entire realm even if it is meant in jest.
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Also, if we're supposedly using our god-mode GM powers to win, then how come I'm still losing the war? >:(
That's just what I wanted to hear 8)
Anyways, just read about the whole thread. A lot of interesting stuff. I wish Tom still played his characters for one, maybe he should give it another try? *wink wink, nudge nudge* I would definitely fight him if I was ruler of a realm just to say I took down the owner of this game.. and something IC that I would definitely RP ing ;D
As for the accusations, as an outside-group on this matter I believe that the GMs have no part in this, they are too much part of the game and represent the freedom of this game to try and manipulate it for themselves. The Titans are another matter, they may have something more to do for their characters versus the game. Then again I don't know who they are, but it's still a possibility that there's a rotten Titan in the mix.
Finally, as for the multis, there's a chance there is but then again there are rather large gaming groups that I'm sure are into helping each other out when times are tough in their games.. and BM is so easy to help your friends out within a matter of a week of joining. Think about it.
Anyways, to sum up this thread: too much speculation. I mean hell, I just read an article about how Paul McCartney died in 1966 and the Beatles/UK covered it all up. How's that for crazy?....or is it? ??? ::) :o
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Ok guys you have probably figured it out by now anyways... I'm Tom... 8)
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Ok guys you have probably figured it out by now anyways... I'm Tom... 8)
Cool story, bro. Tell it again
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No, really... I'm Tom. 8)
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As for the accusations, as an outside-group on this matter I believe that the GMs have no part in this, they are too much part of the game and represent the freedom of this game to try and manipulate it for themselves. The Titans are another matter, they may have something more to do for their characters versus the game. Then again I don't know who they are, but it's still a possibility that there's a rotten Titan in the mix.
http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Titans (http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Titans)
If that is still valid, then that would refute the implication you brought up.
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That page is still correct. Titans work as a group, not as individuals. My understanding has been that no individual titan can take any action by themselves. It require multiple titans to agree on any action. Also, titans only have the ability to temporarily lock an account. I think three days is the max. Any more than that, including permanent locks and any lightning bolts, has to come from Tom himself.
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These players don't seem to be much active on this forum either.
Apparently not, but then neither am I, I just sit here incredulous at whats being said.
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Apparently not, but then neither am I, I just sit here incredulous at whats being said.
but you ARE willing to post a message stating that you are not willing to respond... that's rather interesting, how did you come up with that? almost sounds like a monthy python joke.
a big discusion will now emerge about if you really are or not willing to involve in the initial discussion.
I think this kind of explains what has been stated before about the attitude of most players in Averoth.
I am almost sure you just WANT the "gms' to be injust.
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I am almost sure you just WANT the "gms' to be injust.
Not so much that he wants them to be, but that he has decided that they (or, rather, we) are. And naturally, such unjust and petty "GMs" would never admit to their injustice and pettiness, so everything we say that contradicts that must be a lie. And everything bad that happens to them is a direct result of the bias against them from the "GMs".
When someone's decided that you're untrustworthy and out to get them, how are you supposed to prove that you're not? Especially when they are also breaking the rules that it's your job to enforce?
Just let them off, just to prove that you don't bear a grudge against them? I rather think not.
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In all fairness, I am virtually certain that there are players in Averoth who do not fit the caricature that's taken shape in this thread. However, there are so many aspects of what that realm has done that are downright suspicious that it's inevitable that something like this would occur. Averoth is not just an exception, it is a freak of nature. Realms consisting of three *dirt* poor regions should *not* be able to field armies on par with some of the most powerful realms in the game.
Beyond that, it's hard to imagine such a poor realm attracting 50 normal players. I don't mean to imply that there are multies in the realm, though it sounds like there may be grounds for suspicion, but that most players wouldn't want to join a realm that is incredibly overpopulated and can offer next to no income to a new noble. Averoth's success in recruiting nobles suggests to me that players with OOC connections to players in Averoth are making characters there for OOC reasons, to support their friends and contribute additional family wealth to the cause. I think playing with friends is fine, one of the joys of the game, but not when it takes the next step into using OOC connections and communication to control a realm and win a war. That's when friends become a clan, and I think those are incredibly detrimental to the game.
Basically, the fact that Averoth is so unusual was bound to draw attention, not to mention make the realm's enemies feel like victims of power gaming. You'll notice that no one is getting up in arms about Caerwyn, but that's because Caerwyn is so far like every other realm in this game. It meets expectations in terms of the capabilities it has demonstrated. Averoth on the other hand blows all expectations out of the water and virtually *demands* scrutiny because of how freakishly off the charts it is.
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Nosferatus, grow up. Monty Python? Please.
"but you ARE willing to post a message stating that you are not willing to respond... that's rather interesting, how did you come up with that? almost sounds like a monthy python joke."
Thats the level of Youtube tro'lol'ery at best. I won't dignify it with anything more than that as an answer. The same goes for these such examples -
All 51 of those nobles are probably the same person... :P
And that post about grumpy SA is priceless... :o
I think you are just bluffing bro. You wouldn't even get a warning. You will just lose your multies if you are actually cheating. And if it was a mistake he will give it back to you. Tom wouldn't threaten you because there is no reason to. He will just hammer you.
This implies that you personally never received any such message. Therefore, you are repeating an unsubstantiated rumor.
The OOC sniping on this Forum in general is sickening (See the Dwilight-SA-Crusade topic, the Atamara Norland Topic, etc.), which is precisely why I don't come on here much save for when I find OOC discussions (brought up by a new character in our realm, surprisingly ..) casting aspersions against players in my realm. Apparently if someone from Averoth does speak here it's as bad as if they don't. Make up your minds.
Nosferatus, do you know what I'd really like to know? I'd like to know how people know whats being said within Averoth. I'd like to know how you, specifically, as someone with a character in Madina and as the one who began this topic, know what is being said in Averoth.
I heard that players in averoth claim that the GM's are openly abusing there powers to win an in game war against there characters.
I also heard averoth uses family gold all the time to finance there armies and that the GM's now made it for averoth impossible to take out family gold.
What you are referring to is a single comment, from a single character in Averoth. From what I can see it has not been published anywhere, nor even greatly commented on in the realm itself.
So how do you know about it?
Also the remark you made about family gold is an odd one. Averoth has had a lot of gold stored for a long long time, I can assure you family gold has not been the main staple of our budget. However someone did remark they can't call on family gold now, despite having only ever done so once before some time ago.
But then again that begs the question, how do you know about it?
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Also Timothy -
Not so much that he wants them to be, but that he has decided that they (or, rather, we) are.
Have I? Have I really decided that? You've divinely ascertained that I think that, through my total silence on the issue while I wait for Tom to do his thing?
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a friend of mine started playing there, i was rather shocked by various messages i read when helping him with the game.
I'd like to add that i really like to see averoth do what it does and especialy how it does it, i've always wanted to be part of a realm like that.
But it just doesn't really seem like this realm evolved from in game situations, it really looks like a ooc clique in many ways.
that plus the fact that people spread ridiculous rumours amongst players about the dev team which are very rude and stupid, has caused me to start this topic and discussion.
I hope to create awareness and seek out to make life a little easier for the volunteers that make this game possible.
Players in BM should never think the dev team is out to get them, that is just horrible.
I am trying to do what i can to prevent that.
OW and ps, my monthy python remark did make you involve more active in the topic did it not? :P
That was the exact reason why i did it if you care to know.
I'd like your opinion to be heard and discussed and hopefully make that involve more players playing in averoth to involve in this topic.
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osferatus, do you know what I'd really like to know? I'd like to know how people know whats being said within Averoth. I'd like to know how you, specifically, as someone with a character in Madina and as the one who began this topic, know what is being said in Averoth.
So how do you know about it?
But then again that begs the question, how do you know about it?
You sound pretty shocked and outraged to hear that someone outside Averoth knows what's being said inside Averoth. Is it so surprising that people that play in Averoth talk to people that are not in Averoth?
I didn't see you getting so upset about the fact that people in Avereoth know what's being said in Astrum. Or in Sanguis Astroism. Or even in Morek, or the Libero Empire.
I don't see how you can reconcile those two attitudes: that it's perfectly reasonable for Averoth to know what every other realm is saying, but shocking and outrageous that people outside Averoth would know what's being said there.
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Have I? Have I really decided that? You've divinely ascertained that I think that, through my total silence on the issue while I wait for Tom to do his thing?
I apologize; you're correct. I have no direct evidence of you, in particular, showing such beliefs. In fact, from most of what I've seen so far, you're probably one of the best players in Averoth, and one of those that I do not in the least suspect of multicheating.
I have, however, seen many messages from many players in Averoth and (while it still existed) Thulsoma claiming that various things "prove" their already strongly held belief that the "GMs" are biased against them, due to their alleged love for Sanguis Astroism.
Not, as you claim, one, one time, but a great many, from different characters.
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When someone's decided that you're untrustworthy and out to get them, how are you supposed to prove that you're not? Especially when they are also breaking the rules that it's your job to enforce?
Just let them off, just to prove that you don't bear a grudge against them? I rather think not.
This things normally happens when you have the game "staff" playing the game they make. There is always going to be someone who will claim the staff is cheating and using their powers to 'win' the game.
Another game I played had the same problem, and it ended up with the 'staff' playing together alone in a staff only galaxy(it was a space oriented game, much like planetarion).
When someone who has knowledge that is 'hidden' and play the game, there will always be at least one 'regular' player that will acuse them of cheating.
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I'd imagine that's why those GM accounts are anonymous to normal accounts. But that doesn't help when the rest of the Dev team is more or less public and have public profiles on their normal accounts.
You know, if their accounts are of the normal kind, as in, they created them using the same "Join" link and "Create Character" that everyone else uses, they don't have any special powers on those accounts. They also don't have full admin privileges, so I've heard, meaning only Tom gets to directly alter the actual game, if it ever is necessary. Otherwise, at most their only advantage would be knowledge of the game code, for which they could potentially exploit, though I'm pretty sure they would be punished severely for any such attempts.
However, that might not really matter. Some normal player who is savvy and observant could potentially figure out quite a few exploits, and for those more immoral players, capitalize on them. But that's an entirely different discussion so my point for that is: Don't exploit those bugs, it's not cool.
Anyway, the point is, I am about 99.9% certain that dev team members don't get any special effects on their *normal* accounts, which would be exactly limited to the same stuff any other normal member is limited to. This would obviously also extend to their characters, as I am pretty sure none of us has ever seen a non-GM account with any characters as NPCs. Those are, to my knowledge, the only character types to have any code different from what is available to all human characters.
So the extent of the dev team's advantages only comes down to knowledge of mechanics, which if one thinks about it, doesn't actually make that much of a difference, even if those get exploited. Battles would still have enough randomness that even flawless initial setups can't account for final outcomes with 100% accuracy. Furthermore, politics has nothing to do with mechanics (except for the formalities of war and peace) and everything to do with your brain and words. Knowledge of the entirety of BM's code will not help one bit in achieving political dominance, which is one of the most, if not the most, important aspects to achieve success in BM.
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I'd imagine that's why those GM accounts are anonymous to normal accounts. But that doesn't help when the rest of the Dev team is more or less public and have public profiles on their normal accounts.
This is something I think helps to harm the image. A paranoid player can think something like "If they are anonymous, then they can do what they want with out problem".
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On Dwilight there are I think at most two such GMs with anonymous special accounts. And they don't actually access the actual code...I think. If they did get involved it would most likely be ICly, and that would involve a ton of daimons crashing into the realm in question.
In fact I recall reading somewhere that those GMs who play daimons in the Zuma Coalition are the type who are there for developing story and have nothing to do with the game code. Seeing as how Averoth, and Thulsoma for that matter, have never seen a hint of a daimon anywhere within several thousand miles of their southernmost regions, it's safe to say that those GMs aren't affecting them in any way.
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This is something I think helps to harm the image. A paranoid player can think something like "If they are anonymous, then they can do what they want with out problem".
A paranoid player could, if they were willing to ignore the repeated statements that Tom, and only Tom, has the ability to send things live on the active game. Tim can turn his characters into all-powerful, nigh-indestructible gods capable of crushing armies with a wave of his hand...On the dev server. To affect the game itself, he has to talk Tom into uploading whatever he coded (and Tom is pretty careful about what he lets into the game from what I've seen).
The only difference between a dev's family and a regular family is that most of the devs don't have to pay for goodies, as they get them as a reward for their various contributions. Yes, devs can access more information than most players, but using that for any sort of benefit is, obviously, extremely frowned upon and tends to result in Bad Things (tm) happening to you.
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When my player fought the Crusade against Thulsoma the RP of players of that realm were quite fun and that was a good gaming experience BUT there was always this feelings that those players were upset in RL for things that was happening in the game. They wanted always demonstrate that they were the best players around and others were stupid and dull. The long post from Raviel is the sum of this attitude.
C'mon, it's only a game, I don't get why you're so angry for real! Take it easy and enjoy the current war...perhaps respecting other players.
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When my player fought the Crusade against Thulsoma the RP of players of that realm were quite fun and that was a good gaming experience BUT there was always this feelings that those players were upset in RL for things that was happening in the game. They wanted always demonstrate that they were the best players around and others were stupid and dull. The long post from Raviel is the sum of this attitude.
C'mon, it's only a game, I don't get why you're so angry for real! Take it easy and enjoy the current war...perhaps respecting other players.
I think this is the biggest problem people I speak with have with some of that group. This continuous desire to prove they are somehow the best players in what is suppose to be a light weight casual games is reminiscent of the worst excesses of the FPS shooter Culture.
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Yeah, the real problem right now is everyone is accusing everyone else of something and it only gets heated up. I'd rather if these topics were banned from the Forum as they add a hostile non-wanted aspect to the forum. Let the game play out as it is and the Titans/Tom figure out what's right and wrong. Twisting other people's comments on here and speculating is only creating a dark and hostile atmosphere which BM doesn't stand for.
Please cease your harsh comment and whatnot. Keep the forum a fun place rather than OOC-blaming and flaming. I've had my fair share of it from the SA crew.
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WHAT WHAT! Someone claims to be better than me?!?!? I´m the one and only winner of BM!
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Yeah, the real problem right now is everyone is accusing everyone else of something and it only gets heated up. I'd rather if these topics were banned from the Forum as they add a hostile non-wanted aspect to the forum. Let the game play out as it is and the Titans/Tom figure out what's right and wrong. Twisting other people's comments on here and speculating is only creating a dark and hostile atmosphere which BM doesn't stand for.
Please cease your harsh comment and whatnot. Keep the forum a fun place rather than OOC-blaming and flaming. I've had my fair share of it from the SA crew.
YEAH STUPID DUMB SA CREW!!! >:(
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Please cease your harsh comment and whatnot. Keep the forum a fun place rather than OOC-blaming and flaming. I've had my fair share of it from the SA crew.
.... and that was... a joke, right? Please tell me you mean that as irony.
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Yeah, the real problem right now is everyone is accusing everyone else of something and it only gets heated up. I'd rather if these topics were banned from the Forum as they add a hostile non-wanted aspect to the forum. Let the game play out as it is and the Titans/Tom figure out what's right and wrong. Twisting other people's comments on here and speculating is only creating a dark and hostile atmosphere which BM doesn't stand for.
Please cease your harsh comment and whatnot. Keep the forum a fun place rather than OOC-blaming and flaming. I've had my fair share of it from the SA crew.
YEAH STUPID DUMB SA CREW!!! >:(
Good job catching his hypocrisy, Glaumring! Now back to the lair to think of ways SA can turn this to our advantage!
In all seriousness, don't tell people to stop OOC-blaming and flaming, then turn around and do so yourself.
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I have downloaded some Sanguis Astroism HAxXor code into the GM mainframe at 0800, I need Tom to get in there and activate 'Behemoth-666' before I head out to my weekly SA meetings IRL.
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I have downloaded some Sanguis Astroism HAxXor code into the GM mainframe at 0800, I need Tom to get in there and activate 'Behemoth-666' before I head out to my weekly SA meetings IRL.
I hear they have free punch and pie this week. I'm taking the whole family.
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I hear they have free punch and pie this week. I'm taking the whole family.
oew! pie! count me in!
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Ordenstaat did the same thing a while back, until it was reported to the Titans, and about half the realm got locked as multis. They also set up their religion "Cult of Orden" with those family funds, and I believe it still exists with 5 priests wandering around in rogue lands, converting peasants.
Hold on there. The only way you would know about Titan reports for sure is if you were a Titan or you made the report yourself. Nor is it right to link using family gold with getting locked as multi-accounting by implying that was the reason half the realm got locked.
As far as I know using family gold was not against the rules. As far as I know the effects of how family gold requests was or was not intended to happen is none of the players' concern.
If visiting the family home and requesting gold did not cause a reduction in honour players would naturally assume that was how it was supposed to work. I didn't know you could keep asking for family gold without lowering your honour back then. My character didn't have a family home in Ordenstaat. None of the founders did. If I did why wouldn't I go home to ask for gold? Why wouldn't anyone? New characters that joined certainly did but everyone was asked to seek family support as there was little tax gold to go around.
If the multi-a/cs were locked it was because they were multi-a/cs. Not because of family gold. As for this "Cult of Orden" religion, I've never heard of it. Nor can you create a religion in secret. My character was there from the beginning and was the longest remaining in Ordenstaat. I would probably be the one to know the fullest details of Ordenstaat.
I take offence if anyone is saying Ordenstaat did something wrong by using a "loophole" and then getting punished by having accounts locked because:
- To call it a loophole after the fact is WRONG as it implies players should know how game mechanics are intended to be applied when players would simply just work within the game mechanics. A bug is a different thing.
- That accounts were locked on at least 2 separate occasions is a totally different matter and reason.
It has occurred to me that you may be talking about the period when my character had already left. The salient points would still remain.
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Hold on there. The only way you would know about Titan reports for sure is if you were a Titan or you made the report yourself.
Or if he was told by someone who knew for one of those reasons.
Nor is it right to link using family gold with getting locked as multi-accounting by implying that was the reason half the realm got locked.
As far as I know using family gold was not against the rules. As far as I know the effects of how family gold requests was or was not intended to happen is none of the players' concern.
This bears noting, with all the recent kefuffle about family gold.
There is nothing wrong with using family gold. However, it is not, and was never, meant to be possible to drain your family coffers dry. It was certainly never meant for family gold to be, essentially, an endlessly renewing source of money for people willing to use it as such. Moreover, it was never intended for family gold to be a regular source of gold. It's meant for emergencies only.
I should also say, all that is intended to apply to requesting family assistance, and visiting your family home and having your aunt give you gold. Options available to wealthier families, such as investments, are not and should not be subject to the same limits—because they are limited by the fact that you do have to be rather wealthy to use them. If you have someone in your realm who's willing to drain his family's 10K family gold down to 2K by investing in every region multiple times, that's completely different than using a dozen relatively new accounts to drain their family coffers completely dry by visiting their family 6 times a day.
If the multi-a/cs were locked it was because they were multi-a/cs. Not because of family gold. As for this "Cult of Orden" religion, I've never heard of it. Nor can you create a religion in secret. My character was there from the beginning and was the longest remaining in Ordenstaat. I would probably be the one to know the fullest details of Ordenstaat.
The religion was founded on the last day Ordenstaat held Rettleville, by its ruler/duke. I know through purely OOC means that it had no RP basis, nothing written on any of its boards, and no intention of actually attempting to convert any nobles to its worship—or even talk to them if they tried to join. Its sole purpose was to be a vehicle for the recreation of Ordenstaat by a group that was plainly either OOC friends or one multicheater. They were eventually all locked as multis.
To call it a loophole after the fact is WRONG as it implies players should know how game mechanics are intended to be applied when players would simply just work within the game mechanics. A bug is a different thing.
That's true, but not complete. It should be pretty obvious to anyone who actually sits down and thinks about it for more than a second that family gold was never intended to be a bottomless source of gold, and that the limits put on it originally (you can only ask for family assistance when you're low on gold, your aunt will only give you gold when you're low on gold) were never intended to be easily bypassable by sending the gold away or dropping it in a guild so you could just go get more.
It has occurred to me that you may be talking about the period when my character had already left. The salient points would still remain.
As I noted, I believe this was, in fact, the case.
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Tim hit it on the nose.
It was after you left, Fury. I found your Ordenstaat quite amusing.
I was in fact the one who reported them. I noticed the multis because I saw the religion founded, and wondered where 500 gold came from. I did some research, and found sequential User IDs, identical secondary-realm patterns, and numerous other indicators.
Not all of them were banned. About 5 remain, and they are all priests, wandering around the continent (which remains suspicious to me: 5 brand new characters all playing priests?). They RTOd a region near Sallowtown a while back to try the same stunt again, but it didn't work out, it seems.
But, in general, Tim said everything I would have said.
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Not all of them were banned. About 5 remain, and they are all priests, wandering around the continent (which remains suspicious to me: 5 brand new characters all playing priests?).
No, that lot got locked too. The religion went belly-up yesterday due to either lack of priests or lack of temples.
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No, that lot got locked too. The religion went belly-up yesterday due to either lack of priests or lack of temples.
Truly? That's good to hear.
Ah, yes, they're not on the list anymore. Neat-o.
I guess I can stop Hireshmont's anti-Cult crusade now.
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No, that lot got locked too. The religion went belly-up yesterday due to either lack of priests or lack of temples.
Interesting. My char was in Barca recently and I/he were wondering what the temple was in Rettleville lol. Even ran into one of the priest along his travels.