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BattleMaster => Development => Topic started by: pcw27 on March 05, 2012, 05:34:46 PM
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I've noticed that the new estate system leaves no reason for a knight to ever visit their estate. Will this be changing in the future?
I have a few thoughts on how Knights could be encouraged to stop by their manors.
1. Have them run at higher efficiency when the Knight is present resulting in more tax gold.
2. Create an option "host ball". Nobles can be invited for drinks and entertainment. If a certain number of people actually show up you get a prestige boost. If no one shows up you get a message "A few minor nobles attend but no one of note" and you possibly lose some prestige. I especially like this idea because it creates a lot of role-play potential and encourages players to actually visit different regions for reasons other then defending them or looting them to the ground.
3. Make it possible to invest in your estate rather then an entire region.
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I believe there is another thread talking about what the new estates system will have additionally.
But I like increased efficiency when knights around in their estates.
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Hey, I like these ideas.
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I like the idea in principle. I will just have to abandon my estate and set grab one in the capital to get my prestige boost. ;)
The problem is that this will make estates in regions too far from action even less desireable.
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That's not such a bad thing. The lord of a capital city can only have so many knights before it becomes a waste of gold. Alternatively the benefit could be reduced at the capital for some arbitrary in game reason (the royal administration keeps the city running smoothly)
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I believe there is another thread talking about what the new estates system will have additionally.
But I like increased efficiency when knights around in their estates.
Where would I find that?
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That's not such a bad thing. The lord of a capital city can only have so many knights before it becomes a waste of gold. Alternatively the benefit could be reduced at the capital for some arbitrary in game reason (the royal administration keeps the city running smoothly)
He could give a bunch of small estates and hike the tax on his knights to the maximum. That way, as efficiency is high, he'd get a better income than before. Of course, that means poor knights, though.
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Which would in turn make them want to live in the country where the lords don't tax so aggressively.
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Which would in turn make them want to live in the country where the lords don't tax so aggressively.
Which in turn is very very hard for knights to know, find, or even contemplate.
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Not if the rural and badlands lords advertise their low tax rates and large estates which I believe they're supposed to be doing under the new system anyway.
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Not if the rural and badlands lords advertise their low tax rates and large estates which I believe they're supposed to be doing under the new system anyway.
Agreed. It will be interesting to see the empirical data once stable and testing are running on the same codebase. Let us wait and see how the new system functions across all islands before making further changes to estates.
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I'd say people can easily see which region produces what at tax day...
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The reality has been that city estates simply generate more income then comparable rural estates. Unless that changes, estates in cities and townslands are going to be more desirable then estates in rural regions.
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The reality has been that city estates simply generate more income then comparable rural estates. Unless that changes, estates in cities and townslands are going to be more desirable then estates in rural regions.
What about the marquis who taxes estates at 80% versus the count who taxes at 30%? It is difficult to tell (not impossible, as you can use the lord/duke income/shares) from the current tax reports as they do not cut out the portion the lord of the region/city take from estate income.
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What about the marquis who taxes estates at 80% versus the count who taxes at 30%? It is difficult to tell (not impossible, as you can use the lord/duke income/shares) from the current tax reports as they do not cut out the portion the lord of the region/city take from estate income.
The current Tax report shows the average knight share, which excludes all the taxes. What more do they need? Of course that doesn't tell you exactly what an estate might offer you, but it would certainly indicate if a region was likely to offer a better deal, at least enough info to check it out. For instance in Solaria I can see that one of the rurals is posting a average knight income of 120 gold, enough that one might start wondering if there is room for another estate there offering that sum. In fact that Rural often has the highest average knightly income :)
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The current Tax report shows the average knight share, which excludes all the taxes. What more do they need? Of course that doesn't tell you exactly what an estate might offer you, but it would certainly indicate if a region was likely to offer a better deal, at least enough info to check it out. For instance in Solaria I can see that one of the rurals is posting a average knight income of 120 gold, enough that one might start wondering if there is room for another estate there offering that sum. In fact that Rural often has the highest average knightly income :)
Ah, I read the tax report wrong. It is actually accurate and informative, contrary to what I was suggesting. My apologies, thanks for clarifying that.
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To get back on topic, I like the poster's ideas also, especially the one about throwing balls. What a great RP option!
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I like the idea of hosting a ball.
It might be fun for rural/townlands to be able to host Robin-Hood styled archery contests for outlaws and commoners and perhaps the noble knight who wishes to try his hand at it--or just generally other things to give knights and adventurers things to do!
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Yeah but archery contests are strictly forbidden. I suggest dropping the subject or you'll get the thread locked.
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Hehe, good catch, pcw27. ;)
Let's get back to the idea of being able to host stuff (i.e. balls, gatherings, etc) at your estate. Though this will likely be taken into consideration after we're done with moving testing to stable, it's still good to flesh out some ideas and create an actual useful feature request.
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Hehe, good catch, pcw27. ;)
Let's get back to the idea of being able to host stuff (i.e. balls, gatherings, etc) at your estate. Though this will likely be taken into consideration after we're done with moving testing to stable, it's still good to flesh out some ideas and create an actual useful feature request.
Why not make it similar to tournaments? Except you don't get (after tour). Just (return) should do the job. Enable the lord to choose between 1 to 3 days.
For balls - Maybe you have options between a regular one and masquerade?
1) Dance with young nobles/ladies or instead of having this you can actually choose someone to dance from the list who attended the ball? When you select whoever you want to dance, you can send a request? The request can say something like you stretch your hand out hoping the other to accept your request?
2)For a hunt, it can be like a small tournament.
Option
Join the hunt - You can join others and hunt animals.
If it is a three day hunt, at the end of the whole thing, whoever killed the most animals or biggest/dangerous gets the reward or prestige/honour? - If you have participated in too many hunts, you won't get prestige or honour because people expect you to do good?
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How about something like this:
- Spend enough gold to host a banquet, get enough prestigious visitors and gain you "Largesse".
- Attend a banquet where people are more prestigious than you are to gain prestige.
- Fail a banquet (not enough visitors) and you lose prestige.
- The more you spend gold for the festivities, the more buttons you get at the event.
The costs for hosting successful banquet should be such as to prevent holding them excessively. The higher your starting largesse, the more you have to spend. Also, it would be in the interest of you character to try to get an invitation to a banquet where most of the other people are more prestigious than you are. Similarly, it would be in the interest of the attendees to prevent guests that are of significantly lower prestige.
"Oh! Young Sir Kepler was seen at the banquet of the Duke himself, together with the ambassadors of all the realms of the continent! Despite of his youth, he must be more important than we knew!"
"Pity. I thought this banquet was for the truly prestigious nobility only, but all I see is a multitude of ordinary knights. Pfff! I will know better next time and shall pass the banquets of Lady Mundane in the future."
"Such an honor! The king himself came to our little gathering! And look, there is the judge and the general as well! Our names will certainly be recognized better in the future."
Of course this is but a thin layer upon which all the important RP is placed on. But as it is, the numbers and the stats and their changes would function as general guidelines of how the banquets went and how the participation of each of the guests are viewed by the nobility in general.
And, what fun it would be if you could also attempt to ruin the party somehow for the embarrassment of the host (a prestige drop) and a disappointment of the attendees. Or perhaps you could have different strategies for each banquet that would all put together effect the outcome of it. While you could intentionally try to ruin it, you could also take risks and try to make it more lively. If you succeed, more candy to everyone, but you could also fail miserably. Or you could just try to play it safe. But if everyone did so, the party would be dull. If too many try to be lively, it could also generate interesting effects. At the extreme someone could get wounded. "Honestly, I did not try to ruin the party! I just tried to liven things up a bit..."
Something like this would perhaps work the best with fluctuating stats, that seem to be planned for the future.
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Are balls era appropriate for the middle ages? I know with the Renaissance it would fit in, but for gatherings, I would imagine great feasts over balls.
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I'm completely in favor of something of along these lines, although think the limits on how many can be held, or indeed how much can be spent on them, should be the same for everyone.
There would be certain events each noble can host/throw as many times as can cover the costs, yet not only themselves limited personally how many times a year, but also a total limit allowed in "each realm per year", insomuch as perhaps 8 or 10 hunts, half in winter. half in summer ect
Conversely other things will only be available as something each noble can do a set amount of times in total, not only to prevent them being abused by those with wealthy chars to artificially hike up their Largesse ect, but would also prevent the whole thing becoming somewhat of a farce with feasts and banquets, both normal and opulent, being thrown/held left right and centre all the time.
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Why would a wealthy duke not have feasts often? They are wealthy and thus should have feasts more often.
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Masquerade party. Love it! :P You could even have some kind of "anonymous rumour" feature with a chance that the person starting the rumour is identified and revealed to everyone. :) I don't know that this would happen, but it sounds fun.
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Why would a wealthy duke not have feasts often? They are wealthy and thus should have feasts more often.
I'm thinking along the lines of a trade off between authentically and what might work best game wise, as not only should it keep most folk on a level playing field, but hopefully prevent it becoming an almost everyday occurrence for something like that happening in the realm, and thereby lose some/most of it's meaning.
It could also be reasoned game wise that doing it over much would not only stop fellow nobles from being impressed but exactly the opposite, as rather then thinking what a jolly good and generous sort you are, would instead start thinking of you as either at best simply boorish or at worst a veritable overbearing bragard.
Ha and besides I'm hoping could be quite a few different things to host/throw, ie a few different variations of the basic hunt, feast and banquet, so even if you've used one up for the year (or what ever) there's likely always something else :)
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Longmane,
I would not be all that concerned about banquets and such becoming an everyday routine. There are several reasons that will likely prevent that:
1) The banquets should cost gold, and to gain largesse out of it one would need to keep increasing the amount of gold spent. This gold is away from the war effort and other important gold sinks, so spending excessively during a crisis would be frowned upon.
2) It takes time to travel to the banquets/hunts etc. and it takes time to attend them, which is again time away from the war effort, border patrols, courtier work, preaching etc.
3) If there are parties every other day, people grow tired of them and/or only pick the ones which they think are more important or more fun. Moreover, if there are several taking place at the same time, those willing to attend parties need to make choices there. Some people will have banquets with very few or no visitors, causing a prestige loss for embarrassment. Paying gold for losing a stat will soon lose its glamour.
4) If it were to be made so that increasing the stats with banquets got progressively more difficult, the banquets could not be endlessly milked for stats. On the other hand, if you really succeeded to get prestigious nobility visit you in great number, time after time, and paid for it all, you probably deserve those stat increases anyway.
But on the other hand, if there is a temporary lull in the action, a period of banquets and hunts just might liven the things up a bit. The banquets would anyway be more of a way for encouraging RP and communication that is not always about warfare. They would offer opportunities to be a little more relaxed, which might hive some more flesh around the bones of the character personalities.
You could also add an infiltrator button "poison the wine" with a higher chances of success compared to your standard stabs, you make large parties with many foreigners somewhat more of a risk. With more people around there is always more plausible deniability. Then you could add in a slim chance of accidentally poisoning another random guest. Then attending a banquet could always become more of a risk.
Masquerades would make the job of an infiltrator all that more easier too...
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Duvaille,
I'm completely in agreement on all counts, as without doubt the cost and time issue ect should on their own aid prevent it getting totally out of hand, and so could look upon my own suggestion as being of the belt "and braces" variety as they say, insomuch as having a safeguard built in just in case.
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Longmane,
Well, I suppose you are right. It could be something like changing the class, where it takes some time until you can do it again to prevent chaining them.
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I suppose it could be looked at that way, but somehow I'm thinking ye oldie braces won't be required anyhow, as if there's a big enough choice of stuff to pick from, and likewise perhaps with around 3 levels of each cost wise, it should not only mean there's always a good chance somethings available, but also something suit each nobles need, both in how much they can afford, ie a simple knight wanting host his/her first hunt, and likewise want they might be able gain Largesse from.
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2)For a hunt, it can be like a small tournament.
Option
Join the hunt - You can join others and hunt animals.
If it is a three day hunt, at the end of the whole thing, whoever killed the most animals or biggest/dangerous gets the reward or prestige/honour? - If you have participated in too many hunts, you won't get prestige or honour because people expect you to do good?
I actually have a complete proposal for that in the feature request forum.