BattleMaster Community
BattleMaster => BM General Discussion => Topic started by: Dishman on March 16, 2014, 02:26:52 AM
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So are we in store for some grand event with the revised rebalance? It would be neat if the monster/undead spawns were calmed so people can focus on fighting each other. Maybe a second coming of the freaky omnipresent couple?
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My guess is when western realms fully migrate to the east.
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At this point, it has gotten more than a little silly. If the intent is to increase player density in some regions, then it'll fail on account of many players already considering leaving the game. It stopped being fun, there doesn't seem to be an end in sight. No realm has any food and all of them, even the ones in the east, are losing regions. The monsters pop up without warning and don't need refits like we do. Dwilight can't handle any increased player density at all, as practically everything is starving. Take this all as a complaint because it is.
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Dwilight can't handle any increased player density at all, as practically everything is starving.
Good thing I'm already fully aware of that and working on a fix, then. (http://forum.battlemaster.org/index.php/topic,5519.0.html)
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Playing 'Attack on Titan - The Game' is okay for a short period of time, but in the long run it just ends up being stressful. :(
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I think in part the starvation is also due to the monster groups that keep popping up, roaming in Rural Regions and not allowing to recover.
The Realm I am in has had instances where we cleared a region of monsters, and when we moved away to either refit or defend another region, the turn right after suddenly monsters appeared /again/. Large groups that need multiple troops to defeat. (And they spawned, not even moving from region to region, though this also happens it is not the issue here).
It really seems like a no-win scenario as these monsters do not need to refit at all, where players would in a war. Regions/Realms are under constant attack, without being able to even recover or try and fix damage done, or retake regions lost.
Since this situation started I have seen player activity drop due to the situation being stacked against us, in unfair ways. Change is good, and a challenge as well, but if there is literally no way to win? This is also in a realm in the east, behind the places that were considered borders for the monster horde. So it is not meant to just lose regions like that according to the announcements.
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I'm definitely getting a Starship Troopers vibe from the sheer number of monsters thrown at us with no reprieve in sight. Most of my nation's good soldier recruitment centers are empty of recruits from the stupid amount of outfitting we've all needed to do for huge monster hordes that pop up, often in the same region a day after a previous horde had been wiped out. I can't really say any of our regions are really doing well; the few that aren't being attacked have all their food stores and resources funneled to the trouble regions.
It's making me wonder... is there a point to all of this? Is this an element that is supposed to make the game fun and engaging? Where's the pay-off? Because you're REALLY pushing it at the moment.
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It is not our intent to demoralize and beat down the realms of eastern Dwilight. That is an unfortunate side effect of the fact that balancing monster spawns is surprisingly difficult. Making sure that they're strong enough to be a danger, while not strong enough to threaten your very existence, is a very, very tricky balancing act.
I've been taking some steps today to see that the hordes in the east will not be quite as threatening, but I think I may need to do some more still.
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If the hordes in the east are this bad, I'd hate to see what the hordes in the west are like. Fissoa is constantly getting upwards of 8k CS of monsters spawning in a single region, and as soon as they're destroyed, they just respawn again a turn later.
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It's the only way to keep the realms in the east busy why the people from the west comes over. Think about it, they are having a bigger problem. And if the east are not willing to accommodate them and keeping all the regions to themselves, more people in the west will leave the game(if you are thinking from that point of view). But people who love challenges would love things like these. So be it. After all, it's a fake character that can survive anywhere. It is not like the game is over when you lose those regions. It's how your people develop their characters.
If you are so afraid that you lose the regions, then you are obviously playing the game in a wrong way.
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It doesn't really matter that the eastern realms are having a hard time. Wasn't this the point? To make it possible for Western realms to migrate to the east. It's already hard enough for the western realms as it is.
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The monsters affect the Western realms worse, as we must deal with both Eastern realms and the monsters while trying to carve out a region without the ability to refit or resupply troops.
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Indeed. Western realms only get one shot at this. If eastern realms manage to repel the attack, western realms will be forced to join another realm.
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Join another realm... And then immediately join a rebellion after recruiting in the capital, and overthrow that realm's current leadership.
There's more than one way to skin a cat.
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Join another realm... And then immediately join a rebellion after recruiting in the capital, and overthrow that realm's current leadership.
There's more than one way to skin a cat.
We've thought about this, but I and I believe many others would consider this the least fun option available. We don't want to take a realm through gamecode technicality, we want to do it the old fashioned way, through a drawn out conquest. We are giving it a try, but it might not even be possible due to the nature of the conquest (we can't resupply or recruit while all of our enemies can). Join and rebel would be a last resort.
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Two of my characters are in realms, affected by the ice, in East Continent and Atamara. Somehow it is no fun at all and I realised that I actuallly would like to delete them. It makes me think that destroying a whole continent would be more fun. Then lots of people would need to migrate and strong groups could really fight to take over the other realms.
Just my opinion, of course.
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At first i didn't quite understand the devs plan/idea with this ice.
Or perhaps i didnt want to understand, like many others here.
But after some time, i start to see how this is ging to work and what it is settings in motion.
Its sad on one hand that some ongoing developments have come to an abrupt stop by this gm intervention.
It simply removes realms and its politics/diplomacy like mostly unknown to BM.
Most of us, i think, agree with the notion that we either need more nobles or less regions.
The devs had many options but this one certainly is going to destroy the least in game history and developments.
Where it destroys this with one hand, It also creates allot of new developments.
Some realms are migrating enmass with peaceful intend, accepting some deal with a major realm on the other side of the continent.
Other realms band together and simply try to take the lands from their arch enemies in a leap of faith, hoping to take a new capital before their army is destroyed.
Other realms like fallngard, who had fought since its begining for its survival, enough food production and land for its nobility, have recently gained what they sought and fought for.
The ice however will take away atleast the three regions they started from and by doing so, putting the realm back to its former position: overcrowded with nobles and in a (violent) search for land.
Fallangards quest to carve out a worthy kingdom by military force will continue, thanks to the ice.
Without the ice, atleast that story would have come to an end.
So basically the ice giveth and taketh away.
Destroying old stories, but also creating new ones, or even causing a good story to actually continue onwards.
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I would disagree. From what I've witnessed, on dwilight we're taking out the very thing that allowed for varied politics. I view this more like cutting out a cancer. It is better to cut out a lot all at once, and be done with it, than to suffer a slow, agonizing death on chemotherapy where you can't do everything that you used to do.
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we're taking out the very thing that allowed for varied politics. I view this more like cutting out a cancer. It is better to cut out a lot all at once, and be done with it
For me, this is the biggest negative point about the glaciers on numerous islands rather than having a freezing of one whole island. In at least two cases, the glaciers are advancing on the realms that offer the only significant military and political opposition on the islands in question. It hands the political power cards to one side in ongoing conflicts (and some thinly veiled gloating by a few members of the non-iced realms doesn't really help the situation either).
I think this is one of the biggest reasons why so many people are unhappy about this GM glacier event - because it's charged like the proverbial 'bull in a china shop' into existing opposed military and political environments and largely handed the advantage to one particular side.
On the other hand, if a whole island had been frozen it would have put everyone in the same boat (probably literally ;D). No 'winners' on the particular island from the situation - everyone loses and has to relocate. Yes, people would still have been unhappy, but it would have been a much more egalitarian sense of unhappines. Everyone takes the same fall.
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I have heard a lot of comments on taking out the whole island. As much as i initially thought it to be the most viable course, have anyone actually thought that we all have a limit on numbers of players in a continent? And to put more of your characters in the same continent is not actually, that much of a fun. I would rather have all my characters spread out across different continent. So cutting off the size of it could be the real solution.
However, i do not agree with how it is done, but have to give it to the GM for daring for that move. The reason i don't agree to it is the fairness to it all. I don't think only one side should suffer to it. Not the underdogs nor the winning side. Put the ice on the underdogs, it's harder for them to fight for lands. Put the ice on the winning side, it might also mean killing the underdogs faster(despite the chance making it a fairer fight). It should be more balanced and happen from all side. Just like how the invasion in Beluaterra is. You can make that balanced, why not this ice thing? Regardless, what's done is done.
Now, the only way to go about this is for players to think on the opponent's shoes. I found more often than not, people take this game way too seriously. Going all out to fully destroy a realm. Give each other the chance, if they are worthy that is. Give them a survival chance. Take for instance how Fingolfin in Thalmarkin decided not to completely destroy Melhed. Why do so when you have opportunity for more different realms and characters surrounding yours. Exactly why i did the same to Fronen in this current war. As much as there are much grudges, i think the best way is for them to still survive. What else is there to play when they are all gone?
So my advice is to the winning side to step back a bit. Give the underdogs a little chance. You will see more fun in this then completely destroy them.
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Destroying an entire realm is a bad idea these days. You can't fill up the gap and you've just got yourself a lot of angry players who want you gone who will most likely going to join your enemies.
If you let your enemies live as a small realm, they will stay there most likely and will just be weakened. You can sometimes beat that for fun but they can't do anything about so you can entertain yourself and not have a big headache at the same time. 8)
Interesting Fact: With so much ice covering the land, it should lower the sea level and reveal even more regions technically.
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More land, not necesarily more regions.
Nice extra flavour, but perhaps alot of work for a minor gain.
What your saying immplies what has been said before: every option would hurt.
We will see what the real effects will be in the player statistics.
If we do not see a considerable drop i believe we can start looking back at a major event causing long term, in game developments and great roleplaying.
This event doesnt have to just draticallyeffect your realm, it could also inspire your character(s)
its faith, behaviour, loyalty, intrests or alignment.
In some timewe might look back at this as incentive for great interaction, stories and battle.
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More land, not necesarily more regions.
Nice extra flavour, but perhaps alot of work for a minor gain.
What your saying immplies what has been said before: every option would hurt.
We will see what the real effects will be in the player statistics.
If we do not see a considerable drop i believe we can start looking back at a major event causing long term, in game developments and great roleplaying.
This event doesnt have to just draticallyeffect your realm, it could also inspire your character(s)
its faith, behaviour, loyalty, intrests or alignment.
In some timewe might look back at this as incentive for great interaction, stories and battle.
Honestly, if I were my character during this, I wouldn't be surprised if the "inspiration" I got was to commit suicide.
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Now, the only way to go about this is for players to think on the opponent's shoes. I found more often than not, people take this game way too seriously. Going all out to fully destroy a realm. Give each other the chance, if they are worthy that is. Give them a survival chance. Take for instance how Fingolfin in Thalmarkin decided not to completely destroy Melhed. Why do so when you have opportunity for more different realms and characters surrounding yours. Exactly why i did the same to Fronen in this current war. As much as there are much grudges, i think the best way is for them to still survive. What else is there to play when they are all gone?
So my advice is to the winning side to step back a bit. Give the underdogs a little chance. You will see more fun in this then completely destroy them.
Stopping a war short of full destruction requires both sides to agree to stop it. There are quite a few examples of this, where realms have refused to surrender. (Luz de Bia on BT is the first to come to mind, but there have been others.) This forces the other realm to kill them. Or the realms voluntarily suicide. (Caerwyn on Dwilight did this, taking their regions to Asylon rather than continue to exist as a smaller realm.)
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Interesting Fact: With so much ice covering the land, it should lower the sea level and reveal even more regions technically.
The amount of ice you would have to create on land would be a staggeringly enormous.
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Honestly, if I were my character during this, I wouldn't be surprised if the "inspiration" I got was to commit suicide.
Weak spirited character!
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Interesting Fact: With so much ice covering the land, it should lower the sea level and reveal even more regions technically.
It should also increase pressure on the crust, thus promoting greater vulcanism.
Do you want me to start erupting volcanoes everywhere, or can we just let the Ice be Ice for now? ;D
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Weak spirited character!
You mean weak spirited me.
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Stopping a war short of full destruction requires both sides to agree to stop it. There are quite a few examples of this, where realms have refused to surrender. (Luz de Bia on BT is the first to come to mind, but there have been others.) This forces the other realm to kill them. Or the realms voluntarily suicide. (Caerwyn on Dwilight did this, taking their regions to Asylon rather than continue to exist as a smaller realm.)
It takes two hands to clap. That is why i always think rulers' interactions are very important to make their nobles enjoy the game/realm.
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It should also increase pressure on the crust, thus promoting greater vulcanism.
Do you want me to start erupting volcanoes everywhere, or can we just let the Ice be Ice for now? ;D
Start that up and it will quickly become Battlemaster: A Song of Ice and Fire.
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The amount of ice you would have to create on land would be a staggeringly enormous.
Indeed. They would be very tall. Kilometers high for many places.
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It should also increase pressure on the crust, thus promoting greater vulcanism.
Do you want me to start erupting volcanoes everywhere, or can we just let the Ice be Ice for now? ;D
It would be awesome 8) After getting our asses frozen we will be burnt alive!
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I think this is one of the biggest reasons why so many people are unhappy about this GM glacier event - because it's charged like the proverbial 'bull in a china shop' into existing opposed military and political environments and largely handed the advantage to one particular side.
We knew when we decided this course of action that it would have disadvantages.
We also realized that no matter what we did, that would be true. So basically, we could decide what people would complain about, but not avoid it.
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To be honest i would be less mad if whole world was frozen instead of just freezing one side. And i think i am not the only one.
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To be honest i would be less mad if whole world was frozen instead of just freezing one side. And i think i am not the only one.
If you have two heavily invested characters on one island, I think you'd quit the game instead of complaining.
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If you have two heavily invested characters on one island, I think you'd quit the game instead of complaining.
And, indeed, when the discussions were first going around regarding sinking an island, there were a number of people saying, "If X gets sunk, I'm going to leave. There just won't be any reason for me to stay anymore."
This method ensures that every character and even every realm has a real chance of surviving, or at least continuing its story. There's a huge difference between, for instance, trying to move Darka a few hundred miles to the south, and trying to refound Darka on Dwilight.
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Have the dev team made any analysis on the effects of sinking the Battle Islands vs players that left from that point?
I think that is one of the most effecting points that has happened in Battlemaster history and many players that were enjoying the war aspect of the game left after a while. Personally I think Dwilight would not have been such a bad idea if Battle islands were maintained, but the huge expanse in DWI just stopped all that close interaction that was being made in Battle Islands, there were hundreds of messages sometimes after battle in SWI. People enjoyed socializing and talking about battles that were frequent. Most of my BM friendships are from my time in Taselak, and from the people that had chars in Battle Islands. So all those chars with the sinking went to completely different play style, that is the time that I paused playing for a while after playing in Caerwyn was not challenging enough for me.
This advancing ICE experiment I applaud just because of the fact that some continents become smaller to be close to a size of a battle island like East Continent where I will most probably soon move a char.
Although dev team took the decision for sinking the battle islands with very good intentions fact is that they just forced a certain type of players out of the game. I enjoyed so much being in the battle islands that I have most probably been the one most stubbornly repeatedly bringing up the idea of return of the battle islands in every forum possible, I don't see anything bad if someone wants to win an island it brings such a fun game for both those who try to archive it and those who face the challenge of defending against odds, reset was very refreshing for all when the island was won.
If you want to do something good for the game than its never late to try to return the battle islands, which can have effect of returning the old players at least to the game, the ice thing cant have this effect as it's still not offering something proven to be fun. There is nothing that game can loose from it only will gain.
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I believe we lost about 20 players over the past month or so. But that isn't a lot. We've been losing about that many per month since last October or so anyway.
Obviously I can't tell anyone the exact number but that is what I have observed over the past few months.
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Tony you have not played in battle islands right? I checked the Lapallanch family history and if you have not lost an earlier account as me to pausing and info is correct then you have missed a lot.
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Have the dev team made any analysis on the effects of sinking the Battle Islands vs players that left from that point?
No, we haven't done any kind of direct analysis of it, but we do know that one of the negative effects of the overall moves in recent years has been to reduce the diversity of experience available in BattleMaster.
The dev team is currently working on ways to reverse that, and with any luck, we should have an announcement in that regard very soon.
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Tony you have not played in battle islands right? I checked the Lapallanch family history and if you have not lost an earlier account as me to pausing and info is correct then you have missed a lot.
Oh were you talking about war islands? No. I only played on EC and AT mostly when I was around for the first time.
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Have the dev team made any analysis on the effects of sinking the Battle Islands vs players that left from that point?
I think that is one of the most effecting points that has happened in Battlemaster history and many players that were enjoying the war aspect of the game left after a while. Personally I think Dwilight would not have been such a bad idea if Battle islands were maintained, but the huge expanse in DWI just stopped all that close interaction that was being made in Battle Islands, there were hundreds of messages sometimes after battle in SWI. People enjoyed socializing and talking about battles that were frequent. Most of my BM friendships are from my time in Taselak, and from the people that had chars in Battle Islands. So all those chars with the sinking went to completely different play style, that is the time that I paused playing for a while after playing in Caerwyn was not challenging enough for me.
This advancing ICE experiment I applaud just because of the fact that some continents become smaller to be close to a size of a battle island like East Continent where I will most probably soon move a char.
Although dev team took the decision for sinking the battle islands with very good intentions fact is that they just forced a certain type of players out of the game. I enjoyed so much being in the battle islands that I have most probably been the one most stubbornly repeatedly bringing up the idea of return of the battle islands in every forum possible, I don't see anything bad if someone wants to win an island it brings such a fun game for both those who try to archive it and those who face the challenge of defending against odds, reset was very refreshing for all when the island was won.
If you want to do something good for the game than its never late to try to return the battle islands, which can have effect of returning the old players at least to the game, the ice thing cant have this effect as it's still not offering something proven to be fun. There is nothing that game can loose from it only will gain.
I agree with most of this, but I feel that the actions being taken with Dwilight will have the opposite affect. Once all the movement from west to east has stopped, the politics will actually become very fossilized. The thing that allowed Dwilight to have very many isolated political interactions was the western island being separate from the eastern island.
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I suppose we will have to see what happens.
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I agree with most of this, but I feel that the actions being taken with Dwilight will have the opposite affect. Once all the movement from west to east has stopped, the politics will actually become very fossilized. The thing that allowed Dwilight to have very many isolated political interactions was the western island being separate from the eastern island.
I suppose we will have to see what happens.
And this is exactly what has happened. About 10 players from Niselur just went and joined Luria Nova without a fight, which kinda negates the whole idea of introducing conflict through migrations, wouldn't you say? Roughly another 6-10 have paused their characters or deleted them, which is just making the problem that these actions were attempting to address worse. Finally, another 6 or so have stayed behind on the west continent, presumably to die. I'd assume that they, like me, think this is a trashy mechanic that runs counter to the spirit of the game. After attempting to set up a new land in the east, I too have decided to stay and die on the west continent, because nobody in the realm who went east showed any motivation to form a new realm, and just joined the same realm the king did. So, if keeping a settlement in the west fails, that'll be the end of Battlemaster for me, and I will have ceased wasting my time on this game.
Wasting my time? Yes. Because when I started playing this a year ago, I started as Niselur. I kept one character on Dwilight, and that was it. Due to this mechanic, and players' aversion to conflict, all the time I have spent on this game in the last year is now a waste.
Forgive me if I sound trite or pissed off, but you know what? I am a little pissed, and if I sound trite, maybe that means that the fact that you've heard many similar complains could in fact mean that you've made a poor decision.
Whatever, writing this won't change anything. It won't stop the monster invasion. The devs won't have a change of heart, and realize that taking away the western sub-continent removes the last thing that made Dwilight special. I'll just keep counting the days until my character is finally offed by the hordes of monsters. Thanks for some fun times Battlemaster and Niselur, I won't miss what you've become.
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Although I think the monster invasion of Western Dwilight wasn't a bad idea (we still have to see what happens) it is extremely dissapointing and frustrating to see all these Niselurians join Luria Nova instead of any other realm not being invaded by a Western realm. This could have been a great invasion from West to East but these guys didn't want to do it and are making it harder for Barca to do so (and we DON'T want to go down in a lame way by simply joining another realm). They could have helped us and together we could have carved out new realms, but I guess that wasn't an option.
I also only have one character that I play and started in Barca.
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Can always help Asylon carve out a place for ourselves in the East ;)
I'm surprised we are the only Western realm who chose to invade instead of assimilate. Early on we were told that Niselur would join the invasion with us and we would merge into a new realm. Kinda sad that half just went to Luria and the other half has apparently given up.
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Feel free to contact me IC and fulco will explain to you why Niselur settled in Luria.
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Although I think the monster invasion of Western Dwilight wasn't a bad idea (we still have to see what happens) it is extremely dissapointing and frustrating to see all these Niselurians join Luria Nova instead of any other realm not being invaded by a Western realm. This could have been a great invasion from West to East but these guys didn't want to do it and are making it harder for Barca to do so (and we DON'T want to go down in a lame way by simply joining another realm). They could have helped us and together we could have carved out new realms, but I guess that wasn't an option.
I also only have one character that I play and started in Barca.
In other words, all is good as long as *your* plans meet the barest of opposition possible.
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Please don't put words in my mouth. I never complained when the devs decided to have my realm overrun by monsters, I still think it was a good idea considering matters, and the monster invasion was certainly not part of *my* plans. It does seem to me that Western Realms are the ones that have had the 'barest' opposition thusfar wouldn't you say?
What most people would have infered from my post was that, after having lost our entire realm, gold and many troops to starvation, on a mission that was almost bound to fail, the last thing we needed was another realm standing against us and I'm sure you can understand that sentiment.
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Feel free to contact me IC and fulco will explain to you why Niselur settled in Luria.
Is it because it was hilarious watching Swordfell squirm?