One way to make life less of a daily rut for our adventurers could be something like this:
Introduce treasure maps as items that can be found on alpha monsters and undead champions. Perhaps even as extremely rare items that can be gathered in Cities and Townslands. Perhaps sages could rarely offer to sell them for gold to rich adventurers.
Each treasure map would be keyed to a specific region determined at random at the creation of the map and tradable between adventurers like ordinary items.
Description would something like: "A map that seemingly shows the way to hidden treasure and riches in xxxxxxx." Where xxxxxxx is the region the map leads to.
An adventurer carrying the map would be given another option under quests when in the region the map leads to namely: "Search for hidden treasure".
When doing this one of a list of thing would possible happen in one or more steps. This could possibly be made dependent on terrain type.
Some ideas:
"You cannot find any location remotely reminiscent of the location described in the map. It is obviously a fake made to trick gold from the gullible."
"Your map leads you to a strangely shaped rock out on a field and you start to dig holes in the ground around it. You manage to find a large treasure chest but alas someone has gotten here before you and apart from a few silver the previous finder didn't bother to carry with them the chest is empty."
"Your map leads you to a strangely shaped rock out on a field and you start to dig holes in the ground around it. After some time you dig up a large chest and smash up the lock. You find (insert proper treasure here) in the chest."
"Your map leads you to a strangely shaped rock out on a field and you start to dig holes in the ground around it. After some digging you are approached by an angry looking Farmer and his two menacing looking guard dogs who is wondering why you are digging up his field." Options: FIGHT Win: lose some honour but get the treasure, Lose get wounded and end up in prison. FLEE: "You bravely run away and do not stop until the hounds barking has silenced in the distance." REASON: "You explain about the treasure and the Farmer thanks you for finding his treasure. To show his gratitude he gives you a finders fee of 5 gold." or "The farmer is not placated and sets his dogs on you. " As FIGHT above except with no honour losses.
"Your map leads you to an abandoned well that seems to have dried out ages ago. You will need a rope to get down into the well. " If the adventurer has a rope he can get down into the well where he may or may not find treasure as above.
"You find a pitch black cave in the mountains that leads into the darkness. You turn on your lantern and move into the depths of the mountain. After some exploring you find a large cavern where the floor to your delight is covered with gold and treasure. Unfortunately there is a Dragon sleeping upon the treasure as well." Options: LEAVE : "You decide that Dragons are creatures better left alone and silently move out the way you came. SNEAK: If succesfull "You cautiously gather as much of the treasure as you are confident you can carry with you silently and move out without waking the dragon." If unsuccesful "As you do you your best to gather treasure silently you accidently drop a few golp pieces on the floor. Suddenly you stare into the yellow eyes of the Dragon. You run for it dropping all but a few goldpieces but the dragon is hot on your trail." Either the dragon catches up and a dragon battle follows or the adventurer gets away but have awoken a dragon.ATTACK: "You sneak up on the sleeping dragon and attempts to slay it in its sleep. A terrible battle ensues!" Very tough battle with large chance of killing off the adventurer. Bonus should be given for wearing unique weapons or armour. Huge treasure if the adventurer wins though. Even if the adventurer survives a lost battle he will have awoken a dragon.
An awoken angry dragon could be treated as a monsterspawn in the area. If the devs do not want to implement a separate monstertype for them they could be treated as a normal monsterhorde but with anNPC commander. It should be tough to beat down. (The dragon quickly subjugates and take command of the local monsters.) Put an automatic bounty on the dragon that would represent its hoard.
This is only samples of what can happen. The list could be made as long as possible with little likelihood of having the same experience twice for any given adventurer and make theadventurer experience less grindy...
I like :)
Looks very cool. Giving adventurers adventures sounds extremely fun, though I suspect if approved it would take quite a while in being implemented, given the amount of code and stories needed to be made. Not that it is a problem, if the devs agree to this I'd be firing fireworks.
It does sound pretty good. Unless one can work up a strategy for the adventurer (where to travel, what to look for, etc), playing an adventurer can get quite stale at times.
Anything that livens it up is welcome.
Yes, I like this, and the options are well thought-out. Providing a use for the rope and lamp are great.
I like it, or at least most of it.
For instance, I dislike the Honour loss when confronting a mere farmer. I agree that he could prevent you from grabbing treasure, but losing H/P?
Also, I think the Dragon-thing is cool (though I don't think we really need/want dragons), but it is vulnerable to abuse. For instance, I could create an adventurer and set off a dragon in enemy territory...
I also think the treasure maps should be linked with the lack of maps we currently have for adventurers (which is a good thing). I think the Advy, even with a map, should require help from others to find the location.
Lastly, I think there should be a chance to find those treasures even without a map. It goes without saying that high Adventuring skill would be required, as well as a (very) large portion of luck.
Quote from: Shizzle on September 25, 2011, 10:15:20 PM
Also, I think the Dragon-thing is cool (though I don't think we really need/want dragons), but it is vulnerable to abuse. For instance, I could create an adventurer and set off a dragon in enemy territory...
I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing.
One suggestion to add, making dragons only killable with a group of highly skilled advies would be cool, as it would encourage teamwork.
Quote from: Shizzle on September 25, 2011, 10:15:20 PM
For instance, I dislike the Honour loss when confronting a mere farmer. I agree that he could prevent you from grabbing treasure, but losing H/P?
You only lose honor for simply stabbing the farmer without trying to talk to him. If he attacks you first (after a failed reasoning attempt), you don't lose honor. That's a perfectly fair trade off.
great idea!
I do not think it will be too hard to code once the devs finish up the new code form.
I do think that you should replace dragon by (alpha)alpha monster or undead champion king for example.
There is no place for dragons in BM, or more acurate, there are already dragons: the daimons.
But for most characters, dragons are just myths.
If you make the maps unpredictable enough they shouldn't be too abusable. Outcomes that produces the largest payoffs - like the dragon - would probably have to be pretty rare (and the maps themselves should be pretty rare to begin with) or the rewards would begin to affect the general economy in more than a marginal way.
Again the scenarios presented are more suggestions, ideas and an illustration of how I see the system working. They would probably need to be tweeked to fit the gameworld both flavorwise and economywise. Most of all they would need to be added to...
About honorloss for attacking the Farmer: What would be acceptable behaviour for a Knight is not necessarily that for a common adventurer. Knights have the duty to dispence low justice to the commonborn which includes treating them the way they want if the commoner looks at them the wrong way. Commoners should not kill each other unprovoked unless it is on the order of a nobleman. I definetly think a honorloss is in order if the adventurer attacks first.
Quote from: Thunthorn on September 25, 2011, 11:56:56 PM
I definetly think a honorloss is in order if the adventurer attacks first.
Yes but who would know you did it? a farmer on a field and a few dogs, no witnesses, your gone in a blink.
I'd rather just go for a good chance of getting wounded with low sword fighting skill as penalty when facing the farmer.
How would the adventurer know that no one saw them? Would he or she go looking for witnesses after a murder, when the witness very well may be calling for the militia/guard to hang the advy for his/her crimes?
Quote from: Draco Tanos on September 26, 2011, 01:01:38 PM
How would the adventurer know that no one saw them? Would he or she go looking for witnesses after a murder, when the witness very well may be calling for the militia/guard to hang the advy for his/her crimes?
The H/P is how others view you, not how you view yourself. In truth, the system can be a bit iffy. After all, who would know how many monsters you had slaughtered to get that extra honour point. So it appears to happen without witnesses.
The system is mainly for nobles, where they are witnessed fighting. So it is an ill-fit for adventurer.
True, but Advies can be bumped up to knights. An raised advy known for murder wouldn't necessarily be looked on all to keenly.
Quote from: Draco Tanos on September 26, 2011, 01:27:13 PM
True, but Advies can be bumped up to knights. An raised advy known for murder wouldn't necessarily be looked on all to keenly.
You do realize that harsh courts, hangings, takeovers, even battles against peasant militias, all kill peasants?
The King's Justice/upholding the law for the first, and inevitable byproducts of war for the second. None are cold blooded murder. You do realize there's a difference between them, right?
Quote from: Draco Tanos on September 27, 2011, 10:04:11 PM
The King's Justice/upholding the law for the first, and inevitable byproducts of war for the second. None are cold blooded murder. You do realize there's a difference between them, right?
Not to the peasant.
Quote from: Anaris on September 27, 2011, 10:28:39 PM
Who asked him?
True, true, but my point is, do nobles REALLY care about what happens to peasants?
Quote from: egamma on September 27, 2011, 10:31:11 PM
True, true, but my point is, do nobles REALLY care about what happens to peasants?
Sometimes.
After all, there can be laws against looting.
And it may not be so much "he killed a peasant!" that's the problem as "he's a killer!"
Quote from: egamma on September 27, 2011, 10:31:11 PM
True, true, but my point is, do nobles REALLY care about what happens to peasants?
Of course. Peasants are productive and quite useful in many ways when properly led.
I've never understood the idea that nobles wouldn't care about the well-being of their peasants. They're
my peasants, not yours. You're messing with
my property/production/status. Even in the case where they do something manifestly wrong, it is not
your place to punish them, as
I am their overlord and reserve all rights to do anything to them.
This.
The people who are hanged are traitors. Those who die during a Harsh Court were criminals/traitors. Both are classed by nobles as the administration of justice.
Those peasants who raise small armies/militias are striking at/attempting to kill nobles. That is a crime as well.
When peasants die during takeovers, the only ones who care/should care are the nobles of the realm losing the region. Those seizing the land again, believe it is just. They are opposing the seizing realm, after all.
Do you really think that our nobles, with our finger-print dust and DNA testing and security camera footage, are only punishing the guilty?
The reason these harsh measures cause morale drops is because the peasants think we are being unjust.
Do you think that even now with all of our DNA, fingerprinting, etc. that innocent men and women aren't charged or punished? If so... Let me join whatever fantasy world YOU live in! lol
Innocents are caught up in it, yes. However, as far as any NOBLE is concerned, and even most of the peasantry, in this sort of era, if they were innocent, the Gods would intervene.
Quote from: egamma on September 28, 2011, 01:14:34 AM
Do you really think that our nobles, with our finger-print dust and DNA testing and security camera footage, are only punishing the guilty?
The reason these harsh measures cause morale drops is because the peasants think we are being unjust.
Ok that post wins the golden trophy of naiveness.
Another thing, check the missing person numbers of your country. (for usa: http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ncic/ncic-missing-person-and-unidentified-person-statistics-for-2010)
Most of those people where victim of a murder.
Thats alot of unsolved murders ;)
Perhaps in modern times we finally do research(there was no such thing as the justice we know in medieval times, they had nothing to research a crime but gods judgement), but that doesn't mean its still one of the most difficult jobs on earth.
Perhaps all you know of forensic investments and such from tv shows as csi, but that is far from reality.
Hell, i'd even bet my life on it that i could kill you and get away with it if i wanted to.
Please don't be so naieve to think where living in some super age, while reality might just be the opposite.
Quote from: Nosferatus on September 28, 2011, 08:10:08 AM
Ok that post wins the golden trophy of naiveness.
Another thing, check the missing person numbers of your country. (for usa: http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ncic/ncic-missing-person-and-unidentified-person-statistics-for-2010)
Most of those people where victim of a murder.
Thats alot of unsolved murders ;)
Perhaps in modern times we finally do research(there was no such thing as the justice we know in medieval times, they had nothing to research a crime but gods judgement), but that doesn't mean its still one of the most difficult jobs on earth.
Perhaps all you know of forensic investments and such from tv shows as csi, but that is far from reality.
Hell, i'd even bet my life on it that i could kill you and get away with it if i wanted to.
Please don't be so naieve to think where living in some super age, while reality might just be the opposite.
He isn't. His post merely points out that our nobility have even FEWER tools with which to establish guilt. The post doesn't actually say that things like DNA testing mean that we never wrongly accuse in the modern era. Also the medieval period had laws, much of which was not governed by the church, and they did use evidence in the proceedings, evidence largely being things like other testimony, written records etc.
Quote from: De-Legro on September 28, 2011, 08:41:55 AM
He isn't. His post merely points out that our nobility have even FEWER tools with which to establish guilt. The post doesn't actually say that things like DNA testing mean that we never wrongly accuse in the modern era. Also the medieval period had laws, much of which was not governed by the church, and they did use evidence in the proceedings, evidence largely being things like other testimony, written records etc.
Yes,l but that was far from justice.
an Example:
Some gold is stolen from a merchant on a market, all beggars are rounded up and have to stand in a crucifix position (arms form a cross with the body), the first one who lowered there arms(ussualy the beggars whos the least healthiest and thus probably not a sucsesful thief) got punished, by for example cutting of the hand, which was a mortal wound most of the time.
They used alot of torture methods, but it all came to the strongest wins and the weakest loses.
Its all in the assumption that only god can sneak justice and gives strength to the innocent and weakness to the guilty.
There doesn't have to be a church involved, this where city guards, something like our modern day cops.
It's probably the worse form of justice system possible.
The laws of Hammurabi, about 4000 years old are even more just and fair.
hell those laws even gave the accused a chance to provide evidence.
It think the middle ages where probably the worse times in history if we speak of justice.
It should be pointed out that everytime a Lord spends a boring six hours of holding court he is essentially listening to commoners and others arbitraring in twists and giving punishments to crimes.
Medieval justice consist of the judge, who could be any knighted noble or lord when commoners are concerned - planned beforehand or on the whim of the judge, listening to the case and then passing out judgement as he sees fit. He can choose to be just, arbitrary or just downright cruel depending on personal whim. But nominally he is supposed to be fair even to peasants. Its just that there is noone that protects the peasants interests and when it comes to the word between a noble and a peasant the peasnats word means nothing.
Which is about what the BM courts simulates...
Quote from: Nosferatus on September 28, 2011, 08:10:08 AM
Ok that post wins the golden trophy of naiveness.
Another thing, check the missing person numbers of your country. (for usa: http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ncic/ncic-missing-person-and-unidentified-person-statistics-for-2010)
Most of those people where victim of a murder.
Thats alot of unsolved murders ;)
Perhaps in modern times we finally do research(there was no such thing as the justice we know in medieval times, they had nothing to research a crime but gods judgement), but that doesn't mean its still one of the most difficult jobs on earth.
Perhaps all you know of forensic investments and such from tv shows as csi, but that is far from reality.
Hell, i'd even bet my life on it that i could kill you and get away with it if i wanted to.
Please don't be so naieve to think where living in some super age, while reality might just be the opposite.
Don't think me naive, someone broke into my car and stole a suitcase, and left a perfect set of prints on my window where they pulled down (I left it cracked and they pulled down on the glass until they could reach in and unlock the car). The police showed up, took fingerprints, and as far as I know, they never caught the guy.
The point I was trying to make is that the medieval justice our nobles are enacting is based on rumor and whim, as pointed out but Thunthorn. I was speaking about 'false positives' and not 'false negatives.
Note how in BM you decide to be harsh, just or merciful before you have even heard any cases :) The reason courts are held is to increase loyalty, control or morale, not to excert justice.
Interesting as the Medieval Justice debate is, perhaps it would be a good idea to cut it off to a separate thread as focus has gotten lost on the original subject... ;)
While these ideas may be interesting, I think they deviate a bit too far from the core game. I believe Tom has stated before that significantly expanding the adventurer game is probably something that won't happen. I doubt significant dev time would ever be focused on implementing and balancing them. There is just too much stuff in line already.
Thats a bit sad... Next to priests and religion, adventurers are the class that most needs a facelift to be less repetitive and boring. When they are not groveling for nobles there are little involved with the maingame. Its quite depressing when the only remedy for this that has been heard is to tax the adventurers...
Quote from: Thunthorn on September 29, 2011, 10:46:04 PM
Thats a bit sad... Next to priests and religion, adventurers are the class that most needs a facelift to be less repetitive and boring. When they are not groveling for nobles there are little involved with the maingame. Its quite depressing when the only remedy for this that has been heard is to tax the adventurers...
The adventurer game is intentionally less-fun than the noble game, although a few more options would be nice. Thievery would be fun.
Quote from: egamma on September 29, 2011, 11:22:00 PM
The adventurer game is intentionally less-fun than the noble game, although a few more options would be nice. Thievery would be fun.
PC bands of rogue bandits! Oh, the fun!
Quote from: egamma on September 29, 2011, 11:22:00 PM
The adventurer game is intentionally less-fun than the noble game, although a few more options would be nice. Thievery would be fun.
You mean that someone has actively made a conscious decision to make the Adventurer game less fun than it could be?
Quote from: Thunthorn on September 30, 2011, 11:31:59 PM
You mean that someone has actively made a conscious decision to make the Adventurer game less fun than it could be?
Yes, the intent is that the advy game should not detract from the noble game.
Quote from: Thunthorn on September 30, 2011, 11:31:59 PM
You mean that someone has actively made a conscious decision to make the Adventurer game less fun than it could be?
7 years ago there was no advy game. Consider this progress.