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Watch out Arcaea, we're gaining on you!   8)

Toupellon it is spreading... like a cancer!

Yeah, I'm beginning to think that whatever plan Toupellon was part off (Since I wasn't privy to such things), it might end up being too successful ;)

They are also close to bordering every realm in FEI...

Pretty bad geography though. At least 9 turns to get from one side of the realm to the other and most of your regions are exposed to attack. A cold war between Toupellon and Arcaea some time in the future would be interesting though :D

What does Toupellon class itself as, a northern realm? Or a southern realm?

Has everyone gone mad? Whats up with all this green everywhere??!

Quote from: Nathan on October 04, 2011, 04:03:47 PMPretty bad geography though.

This is a major problem. The geography of the realm is just unsupportable. I hear OOC rumors that there may be another city or two joining.

I don't see this lasting. I expect a secession or two to cut things back to size.

I have no doubts that it will be a superpower worth the consideration. Man, I just get mad when I think how fast has it spread, devasting Cathay and Ohnar West. It seems that I have not been in the right circles  :P

Oh, hey, look! It's one of the four people left in Cathay!

What a joke of a realm...all those Dukes flocking under Toupellonian banners with fear of remaining tied with OW and Cathay (obviously doomed realms) with only one thought in their mind: let's save our asses! i don't see this realm surviving in its current form as there doesn't appear to be any sort of cultural or ideological meaning behind it. Blech

Quote from: Indirik on October 04, 2011, 04:16:59 PM
Oh, hey, look! It's one of the four people left in Cathay!

Hey, a little bit of respect, we are actually seven  ;D

Quote from: D'Espana on October 04, 2011, 04:19:19 PMHey, a little bit of respect, we are actually seven  ;D

I have a feeling you'll get some of the converts back. Not everyone who got dragged along seems to be very happy with it.

Quote from: Indirik on October 04, 2011, 04:22:06 PM
I have a feeling you'll get some of the converts back. Not everyone who got dragged along seems to be very happy with it.

I know from some guys that will come back, but I guess that most of them will just stay at Toupellon. It is the most promising realm at Far East Island, so I understand them. Had it not been for the personality of my character he would have ended surely there.

Quote from: Arrakis on October 04, 2011, 04:17:55 PMWhat a joke of a realm...all those Dukes flocking under Toupellonian banners with fear of remaining tied with OW and Cathay (obviously doomed realms) with only one thought in their mind: let's save our asses!

I think that's a bit too cynical. I know that you have the motivation of at least a few of the dukes completely wrong. It's mostly not fear that drives them, but dissatisfaction.

Quotei don't see this realm surviving in its current form as there doesn't appear to be any sort of cultural or ideological meaning behind it. Blech

Finding a cultural identity and a sense of self will really be a big issue. Getting so big so quickly doesn't give anyone much of a chance to set things up. When a small realm starts and stays small, a small group of people can work together to establish the realm, and set things up. Then the people that join later can fit into it. But Toupellon grew so big, so fast, that it has to do all of that setting up while trying to keep 40+ nobles content enough to stay with it. And all the dukes in the realm have already demonstrated their willingness to move somewhere else if they are not happy.

I will be very interested in seeing how all of this comes together.  Hopefully, it's more organic than blueprint.

Some of the duchies are going to have to go, that's for sure. I don't think anyone in on the whole thing expected this, it's a little ridiculous.

Quote from: Broose on October 04, 2011, 10:44:38 PM
I don't think anyone in on the whole thing expected this, it's a little ridiculous.

I had a small inkling Taylin was going to go. I've known for a while she's a pagan and hates religious arguments, so when it all kicked off quite spectacularly in Ohnar West, I figured she'd go as soon as she could.

I didn't expect Anacan to go, but then I'm not in Cathay.

I did, however, think Vulpes was going to take Ossaet, until he told my character he wasn't going to.

I would love to see the Duke of Topenah joining them, that would really switch the balance of power in the Far East.

Quote from: Nathan on October 04, 2011, 11:16:03 PMI had a small inkling Taylin was going to go. I've known for a while she's a pagan and hates religious arguments, so when it all kicked off quite spectacularly in Ohnar West, I figured she'd go as soon as she could.

Religion really had nothing to do with Taylin's decision to leave OW. (And she couldn't care less about Sartan or Adgharhinism.) Thing is, she's hated OW for years, and has tried several times to get it killed off. It almost worked with the Arcachon/Aenilia war. This seemed like another good way to try.

I expect the borders of FEI will continue to shift in the coming weeks. Should be fun on a bun!

Quote from: Indirik on October 04, 2011, 11:23:28 PM
Religion really had nothing to do with Taylin's decision to leave OW. (And she couldn't care less about Sartan or Adgharhinism.) Thing is, she's hated OW for years, and has tried several times to get it killed off. It almost worked with the Arcachon/Aenilia war. This seemed like another good way to try.

Ahh, that surprises me. I'd have put money on it being a "sod this religion crap, I'm outta here" kinda thing.

If she hated OW so much, why not secede and form her own realm? I'm sure Arcachon would have offered support. Or you could just lie, that usually works, "Selene is evil, her Council is full of stooges" would have been an easy one to pull off.

Anyway, she's in Toupellon now. Do you think she'll stay?

The geography of the realm is just totally not going to work, it is both too large and too thin. Maybe if it dissolved into 3-4 realms, all within an empire (similar to what Luria is going to do), we could keep being a powerhouse, but otherwise it is going to come to its knees the second a decent group of realms decide to fight us.

Quote from: Slapsticks on October 05, 2011, 12:47:03 AM
The geography of the realm is just totally not going to work, it is both too large and too thin. Maybe if it dissolved into 3-4 realms, all within an empire (similar to what Luria is going to do), we could keep being a powerhouse, but otherwise it is going to come to its knees the second a decent group of realms decide to fight us.

The realm as it stands lend the individual Dukes the power to break from their current realms. In time it will sort itself out in regards to composition. To imply a realm that consists of regions from 2 realms needs to split into 3-4 is just silly, they could do that but splitting into 2 realms would be sufficient.

Considering that one of the main players for the Luria Empire just happens to also be pushing for a FEI empire based out of Arcaea, I'm sure something could be arranged :)

Quote from: Nathan on October 04, 2011, 11:16:03 PM
I had a small inkling Taylin was going to go. I've known for a while she's a pagan and hates religious arguments, so when it all kicked off quite spectacularly in Ohnar West, I figured she'd go as soon as she could.

I didn't expect Anacan to go, but then I'm not in Cathay.

I did, however, think Vulpes was going to take Ossaet, until he told my character he wasn't going to.

I would love to see the Duke of Topenah joining them, that would really switch the balance of power in the Far East.

I figured we'd get Akanos, but not Taop and Anacan. Akanos/Ozrat/Colasan was all I expected, and I don't know what the last two dukes were hoping to gain by joining the secession. I doubt Cathay is really that bad.

Quote from: Broose on October 05, 2011, 01:24:00 AM
I figured we'd get Akanos, but not Taop and Anacan. Akanos/Ozrat/Colasan was all I expected, and I don't know what the last two dukes were hoping to gain by joining the secession. I doubt Cathay is really that bad.

I think it was mostly because the dukes wanted one guy to win, and all the regional lords voted for the victor, and obviously the dukes weren't too happy about that.

Quote from: Slapsticks on October 05, 2011, 01:27:46 AM
I think it was mostly because the dukes wanted one guy to win, and all the regional lords voted for the victor, and obviously the dukes weren't too happy about that.

He got 13% of the vote, so either lots of people didn't vote, or there were a lot of candidates. Throw in the guys Family History, and there is a natural animosity between him and the Dukes, many of whom were instrumental in the down fall of the last realm his family ruled. Its not about who the Dukes wanted to win, its all about the guy that did win and long standing issues with that characters and his family.

Quote from: De-Legro on October 05, 2011, 01:34:35 AM
He got 13% of the vote, so either lots of people didn't vote, or there were a lot of candidates.

If anyone's interested:

The referendum "Vote for the Ruler" has ended. Here is the final tally:
18 votes for Optimus
16 votes for Anatole
6 votes for Merlin
6 votes for Havelon
0 abstentions
96 votes were not cast

I get the feeling that Merlin, Havelon and Anatole all had fairly similar platforms, and had the 12 votes not been voted on Merlin and Havelon, we would be telling a wholly different story right now.

96 Vote not cast, for an election of the ruler. I think that points more to some of the issues then anything else.

Quote from: Nathan on October 05, 2011, 12:07:37 AMIf she hated OW so much, why not secede and form her own realm?

A couple reasons. First, I don't want to run another realm right now. I have enough on my plate with the other IG stuff I'm doing. Plus, Taylin is not really ambitious in that way. She doesn't really want to rule. She's bitter, and wants to see things torn down, rather than put effort into building them up. It's a bit of a different role for my characters, as all the rest have tended to be builders.

And then to add on top of it, I didn't think that she would have the support for a secession. I never figured Joseph would go for it. And when Lysander threw his lot in with Toupellon and went for General, I nearly fell over. It looks like I completely misjudged how many people were willing to jump ship and abandon OW so quickly.

QuoteI'm sure Arcachon would have offered support.

*blech* Arcachon is on The List.

QuoteAnyway, she's in Toupellon now. Do you think she'll stay?

Not sure yet. It's gotten *way* bigger than I anticipated. If the capital stays in Colasan, I don't think it can support Akanos.

Yeah, Taylin may work with Arcachon when she's looking to lay a kicking on someone, but I can't see her and the fanatics really getting along for very long.

It would be hilarious for a short while, a very short while.

Honestly, I can't believe it got that big (and is likely to get bigger) either, and I was intimately involved in setting it up.  If Anatole and the rest can hold it together, they'll have major congratulations from me.  However, a split is entirely possible and would work well with various other plans.

Quote from: Bedwyr on October 05, 2011, 07:14:27 AM
However, a split is entirely possible and would work well with various other plans.

I'm hoping (OOCly, of course  8)) that it just totally collapses into a massive cluster!@#$.

Quote from: Slapsticks on October 05, 2011, 07:22:28 AM
I'm hoping (OOCly, of course  8)) that it just totally collapses into a massive cluster!@#$.

I'm hoping IC that it happens :D

It would make for a good story for the grand children.  :o

Quote from: Indirik on October 04, 2011, 11:23:28 PMThing is, she's hated OW for years, and has tried several times to get it killed off. It almost worked with the Arcachon/Aenilia war. This seemed like another good way to try.

Wait, wait, wait. So all this time Velax has been talking with Taylin and Taylin's been bitching about all the useless Ohnarians sabotaging the war effort, and it's been her sabotaging things?

Quote from: Velax on October 05, 2011, 04:50:32 PM
Wait, wait, wait. So all this time Velax has been talking with Taylin and Taylin's been bitching about all the useless Ohnarians sabotaging the war effort, and it's been her sabotaging things?

It would be easier to figure out who wasn't sabotaging things.

Quote from: Velax on October 05, 2011, 04:50:32 PMWait, wait, wait. So all this time Velax has been talking with Taylin and Taylin's been bitching about all the useless Ohnarians sabotaging the war effort, and it's been her sabotaging things?

/me whistles innocently...

Getting the wars started was the hard part. Then some gentle nudging in the right places to keep it going as long as I could. Plus following a couple of the ... less intelligent ... orders from various generals. Things that I normally would have questioned or convinced the general were a bad idea. etc.

Quote from: vonGenf on October 05, 2011, 04:54:32 PMIt would be easier to figure out who wasn't sabotaging things.

QFT. I don't think there's *ever* been a war for Ohnar West that a significant portion of the realm did not oppose.

Sigh. You know, if Ohnar had got its act together and been able to handle Arcachon, Arcaea would have been able to take out Aenilia. You could have sabotaged Ohnar all you wanted after that.

Quote from: Velax on October 05, 2011, 05:35:44 PMSigh. You know, if Ohnar had got its act together and been able to handle Arcachon, Arcaea would have been able to take out Aenilia. You could have sabotaged Ohnar all you wanted after that.

At the time, Taylin really didn't care about *destroying* Aenilia. Xarnelf was dead, and that was good enough for her.

Now, however, Aenilia is up to their usual tricks again. That may be inspiring her to review their position on The List.

Quote from: Indirik on October 05, 2011, 06:01:15 PM
At the time, Taylin really didn't care about *destroying* Aenilia. Xarnelf was dead, and that was good enough for her.

Xarnelf died in the last battle of the war, so "good enough for Taylin" didn't happen until waaaaaay past the point that OW would have been useful to Arcaea. In fact, Xarnelf was still alive around the time that Arcachon was roflstomping their way through OW.

QuoteNow, however, Aenilia is up to their usual tricks again. That may be inspiring her to review their position on The List.

Usual tricks being droning about killing rogues and reading lengthy RP mono- or dialogues about foodstuffs? The most excitement we've had was a day of wondering if Lord Windmere was going to switch Ahael before or after marching onto our pointy spears.

No, more like arbitrarily creating new rules on what hoops a realm has to jump through before they are allowed to call their ruler a king.

Quote from: Indirik on October 06, 2011, 03:05:03 AM
No, more like arbitrarily creating new rules on what hoops a realm has to jump through before they are allowed to call their ruler a king.

Why does anybody even bother listening to GA anymore. Their opinion is about the only one less relevant then Thains.

Quote from: Indirik on October 05, 2011, 05:21:57 PM
/me whistles innocently...
QFT. I don't think there's *ever* been a war for Ohnar West that a significant portion of the realm did not oppose.

Papania. To the best of my recollection, there was little enough problem turning on OW's former friends at that stage. Sorta a C'thornia issue, where watching the wreak of a car crash had gone on for too long.

Like everyone else, I'm intrigued. Thing is, there has to be politics at play. As it stands, the realm is unsustainable. It'd be fine if the capital was in Ozrat and the realm went down to Lenamaziel, but all the way to Toap and Pates? As it stands, we're looking at two, maybe three, realms coming out of all of this. I don't count Cathay as I'm doubtful for their continued survival. I could (and have) looked at the various splits that could take place, but I and most everyone else here is likely to get more information IC, as the various Dukes have a chat and the other Rulers offer politely-worded suggestions. Fun.

You were doing a top-notch job at bringing down OW, Tim, before all these secessions sped things up. They weren't gaining much credability by all the rogue regions that even up until this new realm were still plaguing OW, inclusive of Arcachon's second route to the mainland. I just have to ask, how far back does Taylin's "sabotaging" go?

Finn.

Quote from: Carna on October 06, 2011, 04:21:33 AM
Papania.

Ahh, fond memories.  I got my start in Papania.  As I recall, though its been quite awhile, Remorse brought that down on Papania.  IIRC, he suddenly yanked Papania from what I think was the end of the war against Tony, and severed some previously close diplomatic ties.   When a battle ensued when a Northern military force attempted to cross Papania's lands, it was - in retrospect - a foreseeable and preventable accident.

Quote from: Barek (jerm) on October 06, 2011, 05:46:06 AM
Ahh, fond memories.  I got my start in Papania.  As I recall, though its been quite awhile, Remorse brought that down on Papania.  IIRC, he suddenly yanked Papania from what I think was the end of the war against Tony, and severed some previously close diplomatic ties.   When a battle ensued when a Northern military force attempted to cross Papania's lands, it was - in retrospect - a foreseeable and preventable accident.

Entirely out of curiousity, which was the accident? The change in diplomacy, the battle or the destruction of Papania? :)

I liked Papania, but they were another realm that hit a low and rather than climb back up, fell the rest of the way (or got pushed). If it wasn't for Remorse, Papania could well have grown instead. Funnily enough, the way things are going these days its a humorous possibility that a New Papania could emerge. Unlikely, as the "culture" didn't really persevere the way others like Sartania (thanks to its religion) has. Still, its one way of solving that too many nobles with not enough time to build a structure. Use one that was already there, but fix it. Eh.

Finn.

Quote from: Carna on October 06, 2011, 04:21:33 AM
I don't count Cathay as I'm doubtful for their continued survival.

They've already asked Zonasa to annex them, actually.  It's still being debated in Council, but I imagine we'll probably go for it and see if we can have them do a friendly succession in a few months.

Under new, more competent (and Zonasan friendly) leadership, of course.

Quote from: BardicNerd on October 06, 2011, 07:08:19 AM
They've already asked Zonasa to annex them, actually.  It's still being debated in Council, but I imagine we'll probably go for it and see if we can have them do a friendly succession in a few months.

Under new, more competent (and Zonasan friendly) leadership, of course.

Oh boy that should be fun.

My character in Cathay is banned in Zonasa :D

Though, my Zonasan character would love to see a more. . . friendly established Realm where Cathay was.   

Quote from: BardicNerd on October 06, 2011, 07:08:19 AM
They've already asked Zonasa to annex them, actually.  It's still being debated in Council, but I imagine we'll probably go for it and see if we can have them do a friendly succession in a few months.

I thought realm mergers were even more frowned upon than strategic secessions?

Quote from: vonGenf on October 06, 2011, 09:25:00 AM
I thought realm mergers were even more frowned upon than strategic secessions?

Again the devil is in the details

"Realm mergers are illegal. Realms may surrender to another, including annihilation of their lands, but they may not merge as equal entities on friendly terms."

Quote from: Carna on October 06, 2011, 05:52:28 AM
I liked Papania, but they were another realm that hit a low and rather than climb back up, fell the rest of the way (or got pushed). If it wasn't for Remorse, Papania could well have grown instead.

Heh, my fault. Veleno was Prime Minister of Papania, until I went on holiday and Remorse took over. Then he sacked her as Ambassador when I got back, so I wandered off to Ohnar West to bring her peace loving nature there instead :P

Quote from: Carna on October 06, 2011, 05:52:28 AMEntirely out of curiousity, which was the accident? The change in diplomacy, the battle or the destruction of Papania? :)

I liked Papania, but they were another realm that hit a low and rather than climb back up, fell the rest of the way (or got pushed). If it wasn't for Remorse, Papania could well have grown instead.

Papania died of Apathy. They were long dead before Remorse took over. The realm was horribly sedentary, and almost completely irrelevant. In fact, the only relevancy they had left was the land on which they squatted, which someone else could put to much better use. (Ohnar West turned out to not be that realm after all...)

Papania's death was no accident. Nor were the sudden diplomatic shifts, or the severing of all ties with other realms. Remorse knew that without some serious shaking up, Papania would continue to fade into irrelevancy until someone decided to just put them out of their misery. So he decided to give Papania one last hurrah. He deliberately put the realm into a situation where they needed to either wake up and rejoin the living, or just get the dying part over with.

The Papanians choose to "get the dying part over with".

Hey, I have an idea! What if Akanos and Ozrat switched allegiance to Sasrhas? The the Toupellon capital could be moved to Anacan, thus being more central. They can then absorb Azros and Leod in their realm, it is doubtful they could survive by themselves anyway.

I cannot imagine any reason why this wouldn't work.  ::)

Moderator note: Strategic secession discussion split off to General Discussion board.

Quote from: vonGenf on October 06, 2011, 04:30:51 PMHey, I have an idea! What if Akanos and Ozrat switched allegiance to Sasrhas? The the Toupellon capital could be moved to Anacan, thus being more central. They can then absorb Azros and Leod in their realm, it is doubtful they could survive by themselves anyway.

I cannot imagine any reason why this wouldn't work.  ::)

Dayum! Why didn't I think of that?

Quote from: Indirik on October 06, 2011, 03:05:03 AM
No, more like arbitrarily creating new rules on what hoops a realm has to jump through before they are allowed to call their ruler a king.

Would be news to any of us in GA who's not the ruler. We don't get much heads up on what goes on.

When Anatole seceded, he decided to use Prince as his ruler title, rather than King. I forget why, and it's not important. Many people in Toupellon felt this was demeaning, and made their realm look inferior, so Anatole decided to change it to King. Well, King Guy of Aenilia decided to arbitrarily create some kind of official criteria for who is and who is not allowed to use the title of King:

"King Guy of Aenilia pinpointed that to officially switch to the title of king, you need the accord of two or more other rulers."

I think that the underlined part is a direct quote. Anatole italicized it in his IG message.

There's no word as to if this applies only to the title of "King", or if it would apply to any other related title, such as "High King" or  "King of the West", or to any other title that could be interpreted as higher in rank than a king, like "Emperor".

It should be noted that at the time King Guy said this, Toupellon was already allied to both Aenilia and Arcaea. So apparently King Guy had no problem recognizing that Toupellon was indeed a legitimate and sovereign realm. He just apparently objected to calling yourself a King without the Aenilian Stamp of Approval.

Wow.  I didn't realize that Aenilia was the ruler title police.

That's...really kinda lame. Guy must be very, very bored.

Quote from: Velax on October 06, 2011, 09:09:50 PM
That's...really kinda lame. Guy must be very, very bored.

You know what else happens when you're bored.  You look for wars :D

You know you could always MAKE Aenelia recognize it. . .

I don't think there's anyone Aenilia can war without breaking their treaty with Arcaea. Toupellon, maybe? The remnants of Cathay?

Quote from: Velax on October 06, 2011, 09:31:21 PM
I don't think there's anyone Aenilia can war without breaking their treaty with Arcaea. Toupellon, maybe? The remnants of Cathay?

I'm pretty sure their treaty with Arcaea doesn't include 'don't attack Zonasa or Kindara.'  Why they'd do that after all we've done for them, I don't know, but there you have it.

Quote from: BardicNerd on October 06, 2011, 11:52:36 PM
I'm pretty sure their treaty with Arcaea doesn't include 'don't attack Zonasa or Kindara.'  Why they'd do that after all we've done for them, I don't know, but there you have it.

True, according to the treaty they can attack Kindara or Zonasa (Toupellon would be a grey area, as it might inherit OW's protection).  Of course, they'd be stomped into the dirt if they did unless they got help from Toupellon (Arcaea's occupied), but sure.

Is Cathay dying? Hurray! Die, dogs, die! For killing... whatever realm I used to be part of back in the days, and which's name I can't remember!

I do hope Toupellon and GA just go at it. Maybe Kindara, too.

I just want a world-war Far East  :P

Quote from: DoctorHarte on October 07, 2011, 03:02:57 AM
I do hope Toupellon and GA just go at it. Maybe Kindara, too.

I just want a world-war Far East  :P

Tupellon and GA just signed an alliance, why would they fight?

Because some of us in Toupellon don't like Aenilia? :)

Quote from: De-Legro on October 07, 2011, 03:03:56 AM
Tupellon and GA just signed an alliance, why would they fight?

Because King Guy insulted Prince Anatole? Wars have been fought over less

Insults are always the best reasons to fight wars.

Always.

Quote from: DoctorHarte on October 07, 2011, 03:17:27 AM
Because King Guy insulted Prince Anatole? Wars have been fought over less

If people declared war for insults issued by King Guy, well everyone would be at war with GA.

Quote from: De-Legro on October 07, 2011, 03:40:35 AM
If people declared war for insults issued by King Guy, well everyone would be at war with GA.

I heard he was told his mustache smells like cheese. Time for war!

Here we go again- next up Topenah!  ;D

I just can't see Toupellon staying peaceful after two realms have been decimated by the successions.

Quote from: BardicNerd on October 06, 2011, 11:52:36 PM
I'm pretty sure their treaty with Arcaea doesn't include 'don't attack Zonasa or Kindara.'  Why they'd do that after all we've done for them, I don't know, but there you have it.

Well, no, it doesn't. But I assumed we were talking about realms it actually made sense for Aenilia to attack. Given Zonasa, and to a lesser extent Kindara, are the only reasons Aenilia still exists, I assumed they'd be pretty much off limits for attacking.

Quote from: De-Legro on October 07, 2011, 03:40:35 AMIf people declared war for insults issued by King Guy, well everyone would be at war with GA.

... I'm not seeing the problem with this ... ???

Quote from: De-Legro on October 07, 2011, 03:40:35 AM
If people declared war for insults issued by King Guy, well everyone would be at war with GA.

BattleMaster, anyone?

Also: bye-bye Ossaet, Ohnar West will miss you.

Quote from: Velax on October 07, 2011, 05:57:00 AM
Well, no, it doesn't. But I assumed we were talking about realms it actually made sense for Aenilia to attack. Given Zonasa, and to a lesser extent Kindara, are the only reasons Aenilia still exists, I assumed they'd be pretty much off limits for attacking.

You'd be surprised.  They've been known to be surprising ungrateful about us saving their butts.

Quote from: BardicNerd on October 07, 2011, 03:20:24 PM
You'd be surprised.  They've been known to be surprising ungrateful about us saving their butts.

I'm not even sure it's that. It's almost that they took it for granted that you would.

Quote from: Nathan on October 07, 2011, 03:18:36 PMAlso: bye-bye Ossaet, Ohnar West will miss you.

Son of a ...

So, how long before the only three realms left on FEI are Toupellon, Arcaea, and Arcachon?

Quote from: Indirik on October 07, 2011, 03:41:50 PM
Son of a ...

So, how long before the only three realms left on FEI are Toupellon, Arcaea, and Arcachon?

I don't think Kindara and Zonasa are about to go anywhere, at least not soon.

Aenila, can't say for sure.  Zonasa wouldn't mind some of their farmland. . . .

Quote from: BardicNerd on October 07, 2011, 03:20:24 PM
You'd be surprised.  They've been known to be surprising ungrateful about us saving their butts.

True, but I don't think they'd go as far in their ungratefulness as to attack us. :P

Quote from: BardicNerd on October 07, 2011, 06:43:50 PM
I don't think Kindara and Zonasa are about to go anywhere, at least not soon.

I think he was joking. :P

How long before Arcachon can run a 24% tax rate?

We all know the final players will be Kindara, Toup, and Arcaea.  Arcachon likely becomes a vassal state of...wait...oh that's right, Arcachon already -is- effectively a vassal state as Anatole outranks Ciann.

My money is still on Kindara coming out the big winner here.  They're essentially taking the entire south, have good borders and no meaningful enemies.  Lady T IMHO is currently the best ruler in the FEI at expansion and consolidation and really seems to have 'it' diplomatically.

Quote from: Heq on October 07, 2011, 09:17:28 PM
How long before Arcachon can run a 24% tax rate?

We all know the final players will be Kindara, Toup, and Arcaea.  Arcachon likely becomes a vassal state of...wait...oh that's right, Arcachon already -is- effectively a vassal state as Anatole outranks Ciann.

My money is still on Kindara coming out the big winner here.  They're essentially taking the entire south, have good borders and no meaningful enemies.  Lady T IMHO is currently the best ruler in the FEI at expansion and consolidation and really seems to have 'it' diplomatically.

Not to mention that they have the sea as their biggest neighbour ;) so they can't be attacked from too many directions.

Quote from: Heq on October 07, 2011, 09:17:28 PM
How long before Arcachon can run a 24% tax rate?

We all know the final players will be Kindara, Toup, and Arcaea.  Arcachon likely becomes a vassal state of...wait...oh that's right, Arcachon already -is- effectively a vassal state as Anatole outranks Ciann.

My money is still on Kindara coming out the big winner here.  They're essentially taking the entire south, have good borders and no meaningful enemies.  Lady T IMHO is currently the best ruler in the FEI at expansion and consolidation and really seems to have 'it' diplomatically.

I'd take Kindara. Sea protecting the border to the west, south, and southeast. To do anything, but harass the Hatdhes duchy, an attack has to come through Hathdes, or slug it out through Zonasa lands.

Maybe Hatdhes can become so famous as Anacan. http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Antoza_Commonwealth/Battle_of_Anacan (http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Antoza_Commonwealth/Battle_of_Anacan)

Kindara is indeed in a nice position, and Jenred's playing a risky game.  If it works, it'll work big.  If not, then Kindara should inherit the island.

Quote from: Heq on October 07, 2011, 09:17:28 PM
We all know the final players will be Kindara, Toup, and Arcaea.  Arcachon likely becomes a vassal state of...wait...oh that's right, Arcachon already -is- effectively a vassal state as Anatole outranks Ciann.

Hey, Joseph outranked you too, and you never listened to him!

Quote from: vonGenf on October 08, 2011, 10:30:55 AM

Quote from: Heq on October 07, 2011, 09:17:28 PM
We all know the final players will be Kindara, Toup, and Arcaea.  Arcachon likely becomes a vassal state of...wait...oh that's right, Arcachon already -is- effectively a vassal state as Anatole outranks Ciann.

Hey, Joseph outranked you too, and you never listened to him!

She listened to Veleno on occasion :D

Solerifum.

I don't think Kindara is any more bulletproof than Arcaea. Its said that history repeats itself, but with the rulers in the two above (not Solerifum) realms I'd suspect neither will have to worry about too serious a war for a while. Heh, I do think we could see a FEI cold war eventually though. A lot is weighed on by what happens with all these Caergoth and Ohnar West duchies. If a big enough chunk stick together, they'll be doing well too.

Fun times.

Yeah, people in Zonasa have actually said that Kindara looks set to become the new Soliferium.

I say, Soliferium died, and so can Kindara.  For now, I'm happy to have them as an ally.

I see the resemblence too, but as a noble of Kindara to say that out loud against my peers wouldn't be the wisest decision given their history with Soliferum.

Quote from: Galvez on October 09, 2011, 11:38:31 AM
I see the resemblence too, but as a noble of Kindara to say that out loud against my peers wouldn't be the wisest decision given their history with Soliferum.

That's why we all say it OOC  ;D

Quote from: Galvez on October 09, 2011, 11:38:31 AM
I see the resemblence too, but as a noble of Kindara to say that out loud against my peers wouldn't be the wisest decision given their history with Soliferum.

As fellow Kindaran, I also think that we are precariously walking the line XD All that's left if for those gosh darn republicans to have their way...Devan needs to come back and lecture some more.

Quote from: BardicNerd on October 09, 2011, 06:55:42 AM
Yeah, people in Zonasa have actually said that Kindara looks set to become the new Soliferium.

I say, Soliferium died, and so can Kindara.  For now, I'm happy to have them as an ally.

I think the big difference between Soliferum, and Kindara is that in Kindara we have a strong alliance with Zonasa. And Kindara doesn't have Viracocha as judge, that is a big advantage.

Zonasa made lots of friends in Kindara over the support against the attempted Cathayan TO of Edain.

I had a character in Soliferum as well as one now in Kindara, and I can safely say Tissaphernes is nothing like Conan whatsoever. The only resemblance Kindara has to Soliferum is the territory it occupies.

Quote from: LGMAlpha on October 09, 2011, 06:09:21 PM
I think the big difference between Soliferum, and Kindara is that in Kindara we have a strong alliance with Zonasa. And Kindara doesn't have Viracocha as judge, that is a big advantage.

Zonasa made lots of friends in Kindara over the support against the attempted Cathayan TO of Edain.

Soliferium and Zonasa were federated at one point, too.  Just saying.

But yeah, I think most of Zonasa -- at least in the Council -- favor working together with Kindara against common rivals.  But we're still careful at the same time.  We remember Soliferium very well -- we were allied with them and fought on their side at first.  Then they started to bully us and drag us into fights we didn't want.  Nobody wants that again.

But Kindara does seem to have better leadership, so, point in their favor.

With both of my Zonasan chars being former Soliferums, and indeed with Elk having been privy to all Conans planing leading up to and through the great war,  I can indubitably agree on that point  :D

vonGenf, I was always OOC suprised Joseph tried to convince Ciann of stuff instead of just pulling Holy Rank and flat out ordering her by virtue of his position.  He could have just passed a Holy Writ and demanded she surrender the throne and presto-chango, she'd have put Ryeena back in charge.

Anatole's letters are basically "I'm an elder, I know what's right."  Which saves Arcachon a lot of thinking, which is good as Arcachon is not so good at the thinking.

Quote from: BardicNerd on October 10, 2011, 04:53:19 AM
Soliferium and Zonasa were federated at one point, too.  Just saying.

But yeah, I think most of Zonasa -- at least in the Council -- favor working together with Kindara against common rivals.  But we're still careful at the same time.  We remember Soliferium very well -- we were allied with them and fought on their side at first.  Then they started to bully us and drag us into fights we didn't want.  Nobody wants that again.

But Kindara does seem to have better leadership, so, point in their favor.

Soliferum was power-hungry and expansionist.   Somehow Zonasa managed to keep blinders on long enough to actually "defend" (aka help) Soliferum every time it bulllied someone into a war :P   It was just a matter of time once the other Southern Realms were gone until Soliferum either made Zonasa it's pet or turned on it and consumed its land. . .

Quote from: Heq on October 10, 2011, 08:23:43 PM
vonGenf, I was always OOC suprised Joseph tried to convince Ciann of stuff instead of just pulling Holy Rank and flat out ordering her by virtue of his position.  He could have just passed a Holy Writ and demanded she surrender the throne and presto-chango, she'd have put Ryeena back in charge.

Anatole's letters are basically "I'm an elder, I know what's right."  Which saves Arcachon a lot of thinking, which is good as Arcachon is not so good at the thinking.

I guess it's not really Joseph's style... he wouldn't have this kind of respect for superiors, and he doesn't expect it from others.

Quote from: Phellan on October 10, 2011, 09:37:48 PM
Soliferum was power-hungry and expansionist.   Somehow Zonasa managed to keep blinders on long enough to actually "defend" (aka help) Soliferum every time it bulllied someone into a war :P   It was just a matter of time once the other Southern Realms were gone until Soliferum either made Zonasa it's pet or turned on it and consumed its land. . .

Exactly. Which is why it kinda irks me when I get (still to this day) OOC messages regarding "backstabbing" Soliferum. Erandi sent repeated messages to Conan, and went through various channels to gather a big 'grievance list' (as Phellan can attest to). When all this was basically thrown back in his face, war was declared (but not before some tension was created between Erandi and Jenred/Edara :) ). I don't care about it too much when presented IC, because not every character knows the details, but getting OOC messages is... unfortunate.

*shrugs* I wasn't around at the time Soliferum was destroyed, but I was around before that and I know how close Soliferum and Zonasa were. And, from what I've been told, the way it appeared to everyone outside Zonasa was that you supported Soliferum right up until the point where it was obvious Soliferum was going to lose, then declared war, took Alanurs and declared peace again. Whether that's true or not, and no matter your justifications, that's the way it appeared to those outside your realm and such behaviour is going to leave an impression on both characters and players.

Quote from: Velax on October 14, 2011, 05:43:48 PM
*shrugs* I wasn't around at the time Soliferum was destroyed, but I was around before that and I know how close Soliferum and Zonasa were. And, from what I've been told, the way it appeared to everyone outside Zonasa was that you supported Soliferum right up until the point where it was obvious Soliferum was going to lose, then declared war, took Alanurs and declared peace again. Whether that's true or not, and no matter your justifications, that's the way it appeared to those outside your realm and such behaviour is going to leave an impression on both characters and players.

Wow.  It seems we did a really good job of keeping our secrets.  I think we were actually worried that we had a leak, the fact that it seems no one outside the council knows exactly how long we had been talking about fighting Soliferium (there were people talking about it from just about the moment the war began) is actually quite reassuring.  We did a good job.

. . . perhaps too good for our own image.

Quote from: BardicNerd on October 14, 2011, 07:14:04 PM
Wow.  It seems we did a really good job of keeping our secrets.  I think we were actually worried that we had a leak, the fact that it seems no one outside the council knows exactly how long we had been talking about fighting Soliferium (there were people talking about it from just about the moment the war began) is actually quite reassuring.  We did a good job.

. . . perhaps too good for our own image.

From a Soliferum viewpoint it's not a matter of nobody even suspecting things weren't all they seemed to be concerning our relationship with Zonasa, but a matter of a certain someone simply burying his head further and further into the sand as the war went on and as such refusing listen to any warnings, as for many the alarm bells began ringing well before you openly declared war on us.  :o

Quote from: BardicNerd on October 10, 2011, 04:53:19 AM
But yeah, I think most of Zonasa -- at least in the Council -- favor working together with Kindara against common rivals. 

So I guess you haven't met Oradrikkon?

Quote from: Vellos on October 14, 2011, 09:07:55 PM
So I guess you haven't met Oradrikkon?

More I haven't gotten to know him.  I don't actually know his views very well.  Which is really something I should correct.

Though by 'council' I meant the message group advising the Regent, not government positions.

Quote from: BardicNerd on October 14, 2011, 07:14:04 PM
Wow.  It seems we did a really good job of keeping our secrets.  I think we were actually worried that we had a leak, the fact that it seems no one outside the council knows exactly how long we had been talking about fighting Soliferium (there were people talking about it from just about the moment the war began) is actually quite reassuring.  We did a good job.

. . . perhaps too good for our own image.

Speaking as one of the driving forces of the anti-Soli coalition...Yeah, that never got out.  I had no idea it was anything other than Conan being stupid about...Razrpot?  One of those regions.  Went rogue, Zonasa moved to take it, Conan made stupid threats, and Zonasa called his bluff.

If there was anything else behind it, I don't think anyone outside of Zonasa ever heard about it.

Quote from: Bedwyr on October 15, 2011, 02:48:40 AM
Speaking as one of the driving forces of the anti-Soli coalition...Yeah, that never got out.  I had no idea it was anything other than Conan being stupid about...Razrpot?  One of those regions.  Went rogue, Zonasa moved to take it, Conan made stupid threats, and Zonasa called his bluff.

If there was anything else behind it, I don't think anyone outside of Zonasa ever heard about it.

Soliferum pulled the "Youll do what we tell you too" card. . and Zonasa resisted.

There was a lot of inter-realm work to get legit reasons to explain why we couldn't support them anymore.

Having said that, Phellan thinks the whole "attack Alanurs then declare peace" was the most chicken!@#$ thing ever.     Zonasa should have stuck in the war and fought it out - earned themselves some respect in doing so.   But no, somehow they went from were going to war!  to back to peace in two seconds flat.   

Quote from: Phellan on October 15, 2011, 03:01:21 AM
Having said that, Phellan thinks the whole "attack Alanurs then declare peace" was the most chicken!@#$ thing ever.     Zonasa should have stuck in the war and fought it out - earned themselves some respect in doing so.   But no, somehow they went from were going to war!  to back to peace in two seconds flat.

Yes...It did not do Zonasa any favours.  That's one of the main reasons Jenred could get away with attacking over the insult to Edara without Cathay or Aenilia intervening.

Heh, well at least with Aenilia saying they wouldn't intervene. In practice they seemed to conveniently have troops spread throughout Zonasa so as to prevent conflict.

Quote from: Phellan on October 15, 2011, 03:01:21 AM
Having said that, Phellan thinks the whole "attack Alanurs then declare peace" was the most chicken!@#$ thing ever.     Zonasa should have stuck in the war and fought it out - earned themselves some respect in doing so.   But no, somehow they went from were going to war!  to back to peace in two seconds flat.

Phellan is not the only one that thinks this.  There were plenty of arguments in council about it -- heck, I seem to recall that we only took Alanurs because David (general at the time) decided to completely ignore what Erandi wanted and fight Soliferium as he thought best . . . as I recall Erandi wanted to attack Masahakon and nothing else.  Unfortunately we were never able to get a force together that we thought could take it before politics happened -- there were strong reasons we did not want some specific groups to profit from the war, and we withdrew rather than do anything that might help them.

Ultimately, I think we were vindicated in our reasoning, but things were perhaps not well publicized.  If the politics had been slightly different, who knows how things would have turned out?  A lot of people really wanted to fight that war, but there was a feeling that the political deals other people were making in the endgame were to our disadvantage.  Which is not to say that just withdrawing was the best way to deal with that, but that's why things happened how they did.

Quote from: Phellan on October 15, 2011, 03:01:21 AM
Having said that, Phellan thinks the whole "attack Alanurs then declare peace" was the most chicken!@#$ thing ever.     Zonasa should have stuck in the war and fought it out - earned themselves some respect in doing so.   But no, somehow they went from were going to war!  to back to peace in two seconds flat.   

Zonasa's goals for the conflict were accomplished pretty quickly. The idea was to reduce Soliferum back to its holdings on the peninsula, not completely destroy it. Masahakon was supposed to be Zonasan (so that Zonasa could help protect Soliferum's retreat, forcing the attacking armies to sail across the straight), with Alanurs staying with Soliferum. A new realm was supposed to be founded in Hatdhes with the support of Aenilia, Cathay, and Zonasa (to provide a buffer against King Thain in Azros). But Jenred kinda threw a whole wrench in the plan. Well, a wrench is an understatement... he blew it up. Combined with David marching on Alanurs, things went south quickly. He wasn't going to trade one foreign dictator for another (plus the added bit between Edara and Erandi is Razrpot). So Zonasa stepped out. Unfortunate.

Quote from: TDLR on October 17, 2011, 06:18:41 PM
Zonasa's goals for the conflict were accomplished pretty quickly. The idea was to reduce Soliferum back to its holdings on the peninsula, not completely destroy it. Masahakon was supposed to be Zonasan (so that Zonasa could help protect Soliferum's retreat, forcing the attacking armies to sail across the straight), with Alanurs staying with Soliferum. A new realm was supposed to be founded in Hatdhes with the support of Aenilia, Cathay, and Zonasa (to provide a buffer against King Thain in Azros). But Jenred kinda threw a whole wrench in the plan. Well, a wrench is an understatement... he blew it up. Combined with David marching on Alanurs, things went south quickly. He wasn't going to trade one foreign dictator for another (plus the added bit between Edara and Erandi is Razrpot). So Zonasa stepped out. Unfortunate.

And Zonasa had nowhere near enough outside support for that plan.  The fact that anyone in Zonasa thought the coalition would have stood for that boggles my mind.  There is no way that anyone in Cathay or Aenilia was going to accept Zonasa stymieing the war any longer, most of the coalition wanted to attack Zonasa if we couldn't come up with some way to get them to let us through, and Zonasa wanting a duchy out of it outraged even more people.  Zonasa trying to just reduce Soliferum to the peninsula...Man, I wish I'd known that.  Cathay would have gone ballistic.

Quote from: Bedwyr on October 17, 2011, 07:22:51 PM
And Zonasa had nowhere near enough outside support for that plan.  The fact that anyone in Zonasa thought the coalition would have stood for that boggles my mind.  There is no way that anyone in Cathay or Aenilia was going to accept Zonasa stymieing the war any longer, most of the coalition wanted to attack Zonasa if we couldn't come up with some way to get them to let us through, and Zonasa wanting a duchy out of it outraged even more people.  Zonasa trying to just reduce Soliferum to the peninsula...Man, I wish I'd known that.  Cathay would have gone ballistic.

Err, Tharion and James were consulted the whole time (although admittedly James said little). Tharion was pretty outspoken about it and Aenilia's role. But yea, Cathay knew about the whole thing and James gave his approval. Maybe it was just lip service to get Zonasa into the war. Ziode, who was Duke of Anacan at the time I believe, was put in touch with Ceolwyn about starting the new realm (in Hatdhes)... But of course, the whole thing blew up.

Zonasa really wasn't after Alanurs and really didn't want a duchy, persay. Zonasa's goals were really just to reduce Soliferum a bit and put a friendly realm in Hatdhes. That Alanurs fell to Zonasa was not planned in the slightest. If there was any expansion to be had, Zonasa was really after the strategic location of Masahakon (again, forcing the coalition across the straight and providing a strong defensive position from which to support the new realm in Hatdhes).

Quote from: TDLR on October 17, 2011, 09:14:09 PM
Zonasa really wasn't after Alanurs and really didn't want a duchy, persay.

Heh . . . yeah, I seem to recall Erandi saying pretty strongly that Alanurs wasn't a target . . . David just decided "screw that, Alanurs is where we can hurt Soliferium most, I'm going to sack it while we build strength to attack Masahakon."  The fact that we got it in the long run was completely unplanned, even David hadn't planned to really do more than sack it . . . I figured it would go rogue shortly after us taking it, and didn't care (heck, I mostly just started a TO in order to lower the city's stats, I didn't even care or know if it would get TO'd).

I think I've taken other regions the same way, actually -- Haul comes to mind.


And it should be mentioned that it was really Erandi that wanted Soliferium to just be reduced in size . . . other people in Zonasa had different goals.  David wanted to burn Soliferium to the ground, and the fact that he wasn't given enough freedom to protect what he saw as Zonasa's interests led to him resigning as general.

Quote from: TDLR on October 17, 2011, 09:14:09 PM
Err, Tharion and James were consulted the whole time (although admittedly James said little). Tharion was pretty outspoken about it and Aenilia's role. But yea, Cathay knew about the whole thing and James gave his approval. Maybe it was just lip service to get Zonasa into the war. Ziode, who was Duke of Anacan at the time I believe, was put in touch with Ceolwyn about starting the new realm (in Hatdhes)... But of course, the whole thing blew up.

Friendly realm in Hatdhes, yeah, I had to pull a lot of tricks to get that nuked.  Letting Soliferum live?  I really doubt Tharion was behind that.  Not when Soliferum refused to give up Viracocha.

Our geography is really problematic. The thing is that IG, Anatole wishes to keep the capital in Colasan for sentimental reasons. I am having a roleplaying session scripted to gradually have him bending to the bulk of administration and moving the capital to Ozrat.

We really have unbalanced Far East for the moment, but unless we are careful, we're gonna split and split and split until amoebas' mitosis will be nothing compared to the streak of secessions taking part.

Anatole got more than he wagered. He counted Ozrat, Colasan and Anacan for sure, he nearly wagered Akanos but Taylin is scary bitch (sorry man, your character is really intimidating) so he could not know for sure. A realm of three duchies with James and Anatole leading it, along with Claude who's a newcomer to the circle of manipulating, scheming bastards that lurk behind the scenes of FEI's political scene, would be a realm who could define itself both culturally and politically.

But this... This borders madness... Taop and Ossaet joining... Man, this even I could not see coming. I've been approaching Vulpes for weeks  to no avail so when he did join me Anatole made up his mind that he had people in power seats that changed allegiance as the wind. This will be an interesting thorn on the side of the man who got a heavier crown that he wanted.

But I'll put a lot of effort to make it work, just to see something different going on. For the moment we aim for peace, but who knows what the future holds? People thirst for blood :P

Quote from: Anatole on October 18, 2011, 03:40:40 AM
People thirst for blood :P

I'm thirsty. . . we need to go to Toupellon with Kindara and Zonasa. . . raid your kegs and breweries.

Quote from: Bedwyr on October 17, 2011, 11:04:44 PM
Letting Soliferum live?  I really doubt Tharion was behind that.  Not when Soliferum refused to give up Viracocha.

Tharion was after Viracocha, who was in Alanurs, and the first target of Zonasa's assault (which is why Erandi didn't care too much that David moved the armies there, although he was a little perturbed). Alanurs got it bad right off as well because of the amazing 80/100/100 SF RC that was there too.

Quote from: BardicNerd on October 17, 2011, 09:59:59 PM
I think I've taken other regions the same way, actually -- Haul comes to mind.

Haha. True True. Haul was supposed to be gifted to Cathay along with the Duchy of Azros... ungrateful James and meddling Ziode torpedoed that... But I suppose Cathay had other problems than the inability to simply accept a couple of gift duchies from Zonasa.

All this just goes to show nothing Erandi ever plans for Zonasa ever really goes according to plan... But hey, at least he gets the ball rolling sometimes.

Quote from: Anatole on October 18, 2011, 03:40:40 AM
People thirst for blood :P

In Erandi's little 'search for the truth', some things have come to light that aren't going to be resolved peacefully.

Quote from: TDLR on October 18, 2011, 05:55:06 PM
Tharion was after Viracocha, who was in Alanurs, and the first target of Zonasa's assault (which is why Erandi didn't care too much that David moved the armies there, although he was a little perturbed). Alanurs got it bad right off as well because of the amazing 80/100/100 SF RC that was there too.

Yeah, but Soliferum wasn't going to give up Viracocha (or Tony, or Conan) which meant that the odds of any coalition member agreeing to let them live were pretty much zero.

Just looked at the map. Combined, Toupa, Arcaea and Kindara have a mammoth 54 regions  :o

Rest of the realms of the big Isle(do they even exist?!) have 22 regions. Somethings got to give!

P.S- Why does Toupa's icon look like a mushroom cloud?

Cause that's how their gonna end up. It's their fate. DIE!

But I'm not anyone to say anything, just chilling in my corner of FEI

I can't hear you over the sound of flies, above Ohnar's corpse :P

Quote from: Lefanis on October 29, 2011, 06:37:13 AM
P.S- Why does Toupa's icon look like a mushroom cloud?

They should get someone to design them a banner specifically for them, preferably someone who has experience in these types of things...

;)

Quote from: Anatole on October 30, 2011, 12:12:56 PM
I can't hear you over the sound of flies, above Ohnar's corpse :P

I thought you loved us :(

Quote from: Anatole on October 30, 2011, 12:12:56 PM
I can't hear you over the sound of flies, above Ohnar's corpse :P

There goes your free passage for that food you need  ::)

What you don't seem to understand is that we can take this free passage by force. We choose not to just because we love you. We do not forget those that aided us. That would be greatly ungrateful and petty.

Quote from: Anatole on October 31, 2011, 12:57:27 AM
What you don't seem to understand is that we can take this free passage by force. We choose not to just because we love you. We do not forget those that aided us. That would be greatly ungrateful and petty.

I'm sure DoctorHarte was only joking and didn't not seriously imply IG consequences for a forum insult :)

No offence meant and no offence taken in turn. It was all in the spirit of jabing and taunting but in a good way.

you could take your food passage by force, but that wouldn't be smart first move for Toupellon.

Anyways, we do have reasons for not giving you passage; Archachon is our enemy. Why would we want to let traders through our lands to give gold to our enemies without something in return? It's  the least Toupellon could do for the near-destruction of Ohnar West.

We do love you mate. We would not let you get destroyed.

Speak for yourself.

I've told you that Taylin is a scary bitch haven't I? Don't get offended, rp-wise, Anatole gets the shivers when he's talking to him. She reminds him of his mother.

Though granted I'm running half the realm right now. General, Banker, Duke, Marshal.

Few days and I'll have 1-2 less, we are once again growing (a bit) hopefully the underdog will bring new interest to our humble abode  ???

Quote from: Anatole on November 01, 2011, 02:00:27 PM
I've told you that Taylin is a scary bitch haven't I? Don't get offended, rp-wise, Anatole gets the shivers when he's talking to him. She reminds him of his mother.

You feel it too? With Taylin as my liege lord, its even more so. ;)

She is a bitter old lady, isn't she? I blame Hamilton.

Why bitter over him? Taylin was on the OW side, but come to think of it, with her scheming to take down OW according to yourself, why'd there be bitterness over Hamilton? 'Cause he failed, in the end?

Taylin was working with Hamilton and the League. It's a long and convoluted story.

See, Taylin liked Hamilton. He was one of the few people in OW that was nice to her when she first arrived. There were some bitter conflicts between Taylin and various leaders of OW back then that left her angry about several things. That was back when the whole blood traitor thing started, with various OW people saying that character counts for more than blood, and that if a commoner works real hard and serves the realm that they can become a noble, too. Or that commoners who are faithful to the realm are worth more than nobles. Etc. etc. That was the basis that Arcaea and GA used to help the League in their war against OW.

The League was incompetent. They could never progress far enough in their war for Taylin to defect to the League with her region of Sanzzos. Then Hamilton stopped answering her letters, and then he disappeared altogether. (He emigrated to EC without ever sending her another letter.) Taylin was forced to run for rulership of OW simply to survive. When she won, she managed to convince Arcaea that the blood traitors had all left and gone to the League, getting Arcaea out of the war. (They were otherwise occupied, and so were more than happy to let OW and the League fight it out.)

Long story made short: Taylin now hates Hamilton for abandoning her, forcing her to stay in OW with people she hated, in a realm she doesn't like. If she hadn't had the duchy of Akanos, she probably would have left. But the duchy, and the Royal status she had in the realm, was quite the perk that she didn't want to give up.

That explains a lot. I even know most of the people you refer to about the bitter conflicts :) Was fun times, imo, but I had things good there from the start - which really didn't earn my characters any brownie points with Taylin. Heartbreaking.

Anywho, never knew Taylin was going to defect to the League. When I first joined OW, she was one of the handful who'd actually follow orders and the likes. Place was in pieces at that stage.

There were only a very few who knew that Taylin wanted to defect to AL. She didn't exactly publicize her intentions.

As for orders: the best spies and saboteurs always follow orders, up until the time that your betrayal can strike the crucial blow that turns the tide. You really only get that one chance to hit it big. Don't waste it on something small. Until then, do what you're told. Chances are that within the acceptable limits, you can still do small things to cause problems. Like delaying just a little so you arrive a turn late for a refit and throw off the schedule, setting your men on 25% retreat instead of 80%, doing only 4 hours of PW instead of "all your hours", hiring crappy troops instead of good troops, not carrying banners, not suggesting better strategies even though you know the one giving orders is making a huge mistake, etc.

And of course if the spy does actual helpful stuff and gets noticed for that, they might be in a better position to cause more damage later.  I sent a spy to a realm I didn't like and he got himself made a lord and almost judge.  Unfortunately, he stopped playing or paused or emigrated, but was quite fun.

But yeah.  The best spies are those that seem to be one of the best people in the realm they're spying on.  Being hated in the realm they're spying for doesn't hurt, either.

The one problem with being hated is that the motivation has to come from somewhere, otherwise you've got yourself either one less noble, or a double-agent. Me? Never trusted people who'd spy. Rarely get spies loyal enough to be trustworthy, imo.

Ahem.  For those who want a manual on how to be a double agent, go talk to Wilson Hendrix.  That man is amazing.  For those who haven't already seen this, he was the Ruler of Sartania at one point, and a devoted Sartanian.  When the realm fell, he joined Arcachon, and began working on a long-range plan to destroy Arcachon.  He more or less started the last Arcaea/Arcachon war by doing his best to see that Arcachon couldn't hold some of the mainland territories, and has engaged in various other bits of low-level sabotage, not least of which is working with Jenred for several IG years now.

He kept the rebellions going in Arcachon far longer than they might have otherwise, got himself into the Ruler slot, thus becoming the only person to ever Rule both Sartania and Arcachon, and did so while being a devout Sartanian (though not a "formal" member of the Church of Sartan for the obvious reasons).  He has most recently defected to Arcaea with the region of Mnalor after doing his best to empty Enlod's recruitment centers and see Arcachon's troops whittled down, which now means Arcaea has a border with Enlod.

All of which is, of course, discounting the invaluable information he has passed on to Ohnar West and Arcaea over the years.

And that is how you play a double agent.  I lift my hat to him.  Deep, real reasons for it, amazingly well executed, and picked his moment for the great reveal quite nicely.  Success is not guaranteed, of course, but Arcachon is pretty nearly crippled at this point, and it's in large part thanks to him.

I'm thoroughly impressed by it. Though my character has attributed it all to Jenred and has now a great respect for him, poor Wilson :P

Just one correction, the war was really started by Farnese and Rodiriz making some serious miscalculations and Ryeena not catching onto the fact that they were doing so.

Otherwise, yes, I too tip my hat to Wilson's spy skills and am even more impressed that even after all that he still has "friends" in the Adgharian leadership.  By that I mean the BM term for friend which is "Still trust that guy more then those other guys"

Quote from: Heq on December 03, 2011, 09:22:54 PM
Just one correction, the war was really started by Farnese and Rodiriz making some serious miscalculations and Ryeena not catching onto the fact that they were doing so.

Which war are you referring to?  The only one that I meant Wilson started was the one under Octavio that broke out over Niel.  He kept the civil wars going, but didn't start them, and I'm not aware of anything in particular that he did to start the current war with Arcaea.

Quote from: Telrunya on December 03, 2011, 09:15:18 PM
I'm thoroughly impressed by it. Though my character has attributed it all to Jenred and has now a great respect for him, poor Wilson :P

Jenred's encouraging Wilson to write a book about it.  And you wouldn't believe how many things that have been attributed to Jenred are more like this.  Jenred is without a doubt the luckiest character I have ever played in any game.  He essentially became a devout member of the MAE because he was so incredibly lucky that the only explanation he could come up with is that he was favoured by a deity of some kind, and that belief has continued to be reinforced over the years.

His main talent, in point of fact, is seizing on unexpected scenarios without getting bogged down in old plans.  Most of his infamous spy network was composed of people who spontaneously contacted him with information, every war (and I mean every war, I can't think of a single exception) he's fought has been won by the other side screwing up in some spectacular fashion allowing him to take advantage of it, and every time some situation arises it turns out that one of his old friends just happens to have some way to help.

Some days I seriously wonder if some minor deity of RPG's really is looking out for him.

*BOW*

just kidding about the bow... it really is all luck and playing true to a characters um...character.

I will write a wiki about it in the near future I hope.

Bedwyr how long ago was it that Selene Octavius had Wilson contact you?

Wilson will always be branded a traitor now tho...and that is sad because I can think of very few others who have taken on such a long term fight.

:) was lots of fun tho! and I guess that IS the point.

Quote from: Valast on December 04, 2011, 08:12:33 AM
*BOW*

just kidding about the bow... it really is all luck and playing true to a characters um...character.

I will write a wiki about it in the near future I hope.

Bedwyr how long ago was it that Selene Octavius had Wilson contact you?

Wilson will always be branded a traitor now tho...and that is sad because I can think of very few others who have taken on such a long term fight.

:) was lots of fun tho! and I guess that IS the point.

I don't know, to many Arcaeans and Sartan's he is a hero. Not sure if he is all that fussed about the opinion of nobles outside of his religion at any rate.

Yeah, I was thinking about the current wars.  The only think that confuses me is why he didn't make himself King when Ryeena stepped down because he had the support, but I suppose that could have gone hell-for-leather wrong really easily.

Quote from: Valast on December 04, 2011, 08:12:33 AM
Bedwyr how long ago was it that Selene Octavius had Wilson contact you?

Good question, I'll poke George about it and see if he remembers.  My best guess is somewhere near the middle of the last war, but the problem was for a long while Selene was just passing "anonymous tips" to Jenred from Wilson.  Then Wilson contacted him, and I sort of mentally edited things to "this was Wilson's info" because I still couldn't believe that kind of long-con.

Wilson never wanted to be ruler.  All he wanted was to recreate his father guild and follow in his fathers foot steps.

While studying the views of honor his father had, and the ~V~ guild, he realized that honor was not just flowery words and being good.  After all, did not all armies cut down peasants when rape and plunder was resisted?  Did not every war have multiple sides who believed they were in the right while the other was wrong?

So when  Sartania (even after years I cant spell that name right I think) was not given mercy at the end of the war with Arcachon... Wilson followed in the honor of his father Valius and remained with the people of his lands...aiding them to freedom from Arcachon (aka helping to send regions rogue) When the wars began against Arcachon he fought just as hard as for anyone, as his honor dictates.

Wilson gained the trust of Pontifex Octavio... joining his inner circle and secret society...  Thus he was able to aid rebellions (without actually taking part) until one finally toppled him.  It took a long time for the realm to get back to a point where the same sort of thing could take place again...and there was a lot of actions in between... but no lies.  Always bitter or mixed truths but no lies.

Some will always say what Wilson did was dishonorable.  Yet those same people support infiltrators, rebellions, broken treaties, Looting, rape, starving of innocents, peasant slaughter....

Which in certain situations, such as war, all of those things have honor.  ~V~ teaches that there is a path to honor... it winds and weaves... it passes through shadows and into the bright light of day... It teaches that to fight a peasant militia is honorable because to not do so would bring dishonor to them...and they are now warriors because of the spirit within them rising them up...

That is a brief window into his heart... *shrug* thought I would share because some times playing a character so long ends up with me thinking everyone knows him when really there are many who never met him.

http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Hall_of_Blood_and_Battle

Quote from: Valast on December 04, 2011, 08:12:33 AM
Bedwyr how long ago was it that Selene Octavius had Wilson contact you?

Now that I think on it... NeoSartania had just been founded when I first contacted anyone again.  It had been months sense I last told anyone of my plans

Quote from: Telrunya on December 03, 2011, 09:15:18 PM
I'm thoroughly impressed by it. Though my character has attributed it all to Jenred and has now a great respect for him, poor Wilson :P

Quote from: Bedwyr on December 03, 2011, 09:31:59 PM
every war (and I mean every war, I can't think of a single exception) he's fought has been won by the other side screwing up in some spectacular fashion allowing him to take advantage of it

Jeez, and poor Velax is just chopped liver.

Quote from: Velax on December 05, 2011, 04:45:42 PM
Jeez, and poor Velax is just chopped liver.

Heh.  Velax is great...But you of all people know the military difficulties Arcaea has.  It just isn't a real military power the way, say, Perdan is.

I think there are only a few realms can match Perdan in terms of military power. Sirion is good with defending but can't say much about their offensive (killing off Fontan and SoA wasn't really great.). Maybe CE in Atamara? They are the largest realm aren't they? Or SA as a whole?

P.S Velax is great. So is Jenred :)

People have said that CE isn't all that great in terms of military. I believe those were the same people who are currently losing ground to this CE realm. I'm not really sure what it's all about though. Might just be the tried and true strategy of "My big ball of doom is bigger than yours".

Sirion's ability to mobilise is terrifying, I've seen them put 20K CS in the field.

Realms on BT tend to be pretty militarily effective, although I dont think there's really a standout like Perdan.

That is because Sirion barely has any militia and with their crazy distribution system, everyone gets enough units.

I think the last two years or a year and a half proved that even realms like Perdan and Ibladesh at their peak cannot deal with two realms at the same time.

20k is a good sized mobile force, but hardly even close to the largest forces fielded in the game.

Well in the good old days, 20k wasn't that much. Now with dwindled noble counts, it is getting harder to see a single realm gathering over 20k CS.

Arcaea had twenty...eight? thousand when we marched on Zonasa a year or two back.  Sirion should be able to put thirty thousand in the field, easy, and I have trouble believing they can't get forty.

Sirion never reached over 20k CS for some reason. Couldn't refit for two weeks while Sirion was being bashed by five realms and when the tide turned, Sirion did not need over 20k CS to crush Fontan and SoA. We did have 5k or so staying behind cleaning up monsters and performing other tasks but just did not bother to hit that 30k mark.

Wasn't Anatole holding together Toupellon with an iron will? What's in store for Toupa?

Sadly, the player of Anatole had some pretty heavy RL obligations that apparently were more involved than he anticipated. I do hope that he is well.

As for Toupellon, who knows what the future holds? There are several prestigious nobles in the realm who would stand a good chance at claiming the throne. Whether or not the realm can hold together with Anatole gone is another question.

Toupellon has a lot of would-be rulers and hardly any structure. Anatole had lots of friends but he did very little in terms of defining Toupellon outside of 'it's a Kingdom that's not Ohnar West and it's not Cathay.' But all the actual magnates are the same ones from Ohnar West and Cathay: James, two Quinceys, Taylin, Vulpes. There's only one new Duke in the entire mix (Claude). Several of the region lords are new(er) but I would bet on Toupellon's fate coming down to whether it survives its first crisis, no matter who takes the throne.

Cathay in its latter days and Ohnar were both dominated by very weak central governments and very powerful Dukes whose decisions (or non-decisions) had a lot more to do with what happened than the ruler. I haven't seen any evidence that Toupellon is any different -- Anatole didn't make a lot of enemies (outside of neo-Cathay's signposts) precisely because he rarely rocked the boat.

For anyone interested in the crazy election Toupellon just had, here are the results:

The referendum "Vote for the Ruler" has ended. Here is the final tally:
31 votes for Claude
17 votes for Galiard
13 votes for Joseph
12 votes for Merlin
10 votes for James
2 votes for Stephanie
0 abstentions
108 votes were not cast

Close to what I expected. Except I expected the top two names to be reversed. Maybe Galiard carries a bit too much political baggage from his long history. Still, it could have been a LOT worse.

Quote from: Indirik on December 09, 2011, 02:33:36 PM
Still, it could have been a LOT worse.

Hey! I resent that.  ;D

I still can't get over the fact that Claude is 19 years old.

I hope Claude is smarter at 19 than I was... otherwise Toupellon is in for a whole lot of loud blues music and teenage angst.

Quote from: vonGenf on December 09, 2011, 02:42:58 PMI still can't get over the fact that Claude is 19 years old.

It's all Selene's fault.

Yeah, I hear Selene like 'em young.

Remember that Toupellon has 'only lords vote' and that first choice = 4 votes, 2nd choice = 2 votes, and Galiard couldn't vote for himself (not being a lord). With each of of the landed candidates voting for themselves, the election was pretty much decided by three region lords.

It was pretty cool, though, lots of last minute horse trading and 'I'll give so-and-so my second vote if such-and-such.' Not as exciting as when everybody can vote (though that's also self interest -- those elections are much easier to win if you're Galiard...) but having been through dozens of elections it was interesting to see that people like James and Merlin (and Merlin's brother, also a Duke) could have rallied their vassals - 4-5 region lords + three Dukes - and easily just chosen a candidate to win, but they went out for themselves and Claude being plain old fashioned diligent and earnest carried the day.

Galiard's political baggage has definitely cost him support in the past but it didn't seem to be much of a liability this time. Biggest problem he had was that he's now so $#!%! old that half the region lords don't even know who he is!

Quote from: bluexmas on December 09, 2011, 02:51:24 PM
I hope Claude is smarter at 19 than I was... otherwise Toupellon is in for a whole lot of loud blues music and teenage angst.

Heh . . . Morgan was not much older when he was elected as Prince of Zonasa, way back when . . . he needed a bit more time to mature, though.

Or, as he might say these days (though only in private) "lose his idealistic bull-headedness and become a cynical realist."

Quote from: Scarlett on December 09, 2011, 05:47:02 PMRemember that Toupellon has 'only lords vote'

This surprised me when I saw it. I didn't expect that a ruler election in a monarchy would be lords only. That's pretty republican... Still, maybe you can get Claude to give you the duchy. :)

Quote from: vonGenf on December 09, 2011, 02:42:58 PM
I still can't get over the fact that Claude is 19 years old.

I just checked this. Holy crap, that character is young. Holy crap. How the hell did he do it?

Quote from: Slapsticks on December 10, 2011, 05:56:02 AM
I just checked this. Holy crap, that character is young. Holy crap. How the hell did he do it?

By being in the right place, in the right time, with the right family introductions, with the right ambitions, and a hell of a lot of luck.

Quote from: Slapsticks on December 10, 2011, 05:56:02 AM
I just checked this. Holy crap, that character is young. Holy crap. How the hell did he do it?

Selene gave the duchy to him because he was there to defend it, and showed more initiative than, well, pretty much everyone in Ohnar West. In this case, luck happened to favor the most competent person for the job.

Being young is the new way to lead, OW's realm council consists of two twenty-six y/o's, one 24, and one 20.

OW right now is probably the most boring realm you can be in as of right now nothing to do but sit around. We are to weak to attack anyone and nothing is happening inside the realm. I am thinking of just going around and asking every noble I meet to a death duel and see how long I can last.   

Quote from: Creed on February 07, 2012, 09:26:12 PMOW right now is probably the most boring realm you can be in as of right now nothing to do but sit around.

I've been saying that about OW for *years*.

... and then I joined Fontan...  :'(

Quote from: Creed on February 07, 2012, 09:26:12 PM
OW right now is probably the most boring realm you can be in as of right now nothing to do but sit around. We are to weak to attack anyone and nothing is happening inside the realm. I am thinking of just going around and asking every noble I meet to a death duel and see how long I can last.   

Go do that in Toupellon, where it's legal, they seem to like bickering and death duels, too. But mostly over religion.

The thing is, there is always a war at the end of the wait, because this is BattleMaster,and FEI is all at peace now, so something /has/ to happen...

Well, once we finish up with Arcachon in Arcaea, we'll be free for a fight.

Quote from: Gustav Kuriga on February 08, 2012, 10:21:31 AM
Well, once we finish up with Arcachon in Arcaea, we'll be free for a fight.

Whoa now :o! Don't come fight with us. Turn south, fight those guys!

I did not say we were coming to fight you guys, now did I? I merely said finish, as in a resolution to the problem. Seeing as we signed a ceasefire, I'd say that's on its way to a conclusion.

Toupelleon v. Arcaea!

Gotta figure some way to make this happen.

Quote from: Heq on February 09, 2012, 09:10:36 AM
Toupelleon v. Arcaea!

Gotta figure some way to make this happen.

That sounds awesome  ;D

Quote from: Heq on February 09, 2012, 09:10:36 AMGotta figure some way to make this happen.

Let Arcaea kill Arcachon. Have all the Arcachonian nobles join Toupellon. Start a resurgence of Adgharhinism in Toupellon to combat the Sartanians. Start all kinds of religious havoc. Depose the Sartanian king via rebellion, elect your own Adgharhinist king, and declare war.

Quote from: Indirik on February 09, 2012, 02:02:30 PM
Let Arcaea kill Arcachon. Have all the Arcachonian nobles join Toupellon. Start a resurgence of Adgharhinism in Toupellon to combat the Sartanians. Start all kinds of religious havoc. Depose the Sartanian king via rebellion, elect your own Adgharhinist king, and declare war.

AKA "The Ohnar West Strategy". Look how that worked out.....

I was thinking more something like MAE and Sartanians finally having a real tiff.

Wouldn't that require the Sartanians to, you know, have a realm? They have a bad habit of getting theirs killed off.

Theoretically Claude is a devoted Sartanian, so are most of his Dukes.  It's got to be either Arcaea or Kindara for a dance partner though, otherwise it's just not fair.

Actually, no, we don't have mostly Sartanian dukes. We have mostly MAE dukes. Three MAE, two Sartanians, and one undeclared who thinks both sides are crazy. Topenah, temporarily part of Toupellon, is also MAE.

An MAE v. Sartanian war would split Toupellon in half, just north of Colasan.

Quote from: Indirik on February 09, 2012, 10:02:24 PM
and one undeclared who thinks both sides are crazy.

Didn't Taylin build a Sartanian temple?

No way. She did tell the Adgharhinists to keep out, but left their temple still standing.

I'm actually kinda surprised Taylin hasn't just become the Queen of Taylinostan through a peaceful succession and set about prepping to burn Ohnar West to the ground, then salting the ground.

The time isn't right yet. Taylin is patient.

Quote from: Heq on February 10, 2012, 12:33:52 PM
I'm actually kinda surprised Taylin hasn't just become the Queen of Taylinostan through a peaceful succession and set about prepping to burn Ohnar West to the ground, then salting the ground.

No one can burn Ohnar West to the ground not with our mighty 5k cs army!

Quote from: Indirik on February 10, 2012, 01:53:22 PM
The time isn't right yet. Taylin is patient.

The time is perfect, OW dueling guild leaves their nobles all wounded.

Quote from: Eithad on February 10, 2012, 10:10:46 PM
The time is perfect, OW dueling guild leaves their nobles all wounded.

I doubt what Taylin could bring together could destroy OW.

It would really depend on if Joseph stayed loyal.  Taylin, Joseph, and Ciann could probably pull together something that would be at least competitive with OW, especially if Arcaea starts to bleed off nobles.

Quote from: Heq on February 11, 2012, 11:56:45 AM
It would really depend on if Joseph stayed loyal.  Taylin, Joseph, and Ciann could probably pull together something that would be at least competitive with OW, especially if Arcaea starts to bleed off nobles.

3 nobles against 15? Seems fair.

It is Ohnar West after all. We know how it works.

Quote from: Heq on February 11, 2012, 11:56:45 AM
It would really depend on if Joseph stayed loyal.  Taylin, Joseph, and Ciann could probably pull together something that would be at least competitive with OW, especially if Arcaea starts to bleed off nobles.

Are you talking from Ohnar to Arcaea, or from Arcaea to this new realm?

Arcaea to new realm(s).

I don't know if it will happen, but it really depends on if everyone holds together after the transitionary period.  I don't see Arcaean political refugees going to OW, but most would probably go Toup/Kindara if they are "big realm" nobles.  Not a lot of options for the Adgharians though.

Quote from: Heq on February 13, 2012, 01:54:00 AM
Arcaea to new realm(s).

I don't know if it will happen, but it really depends on if everyone holds together after the transitionary period.  I don't see Arcaean political refugees going to OW, but most would probably go Toup/Kindara if they are "big realm" nobles.  Not a lot of options for the Adgharians though.

New realm will be interesting, most of the group that was going to colonise it is gone, but they left quite a while ago so I imagine there is a new plan in place.

Quote from: De-Legro on February 13, 2012, 02:09:26 AM
New realm will be interesting, most of the group that was going to colonise it is gone, but they left quite a while ago so I imagine there is a new plan in place.

Let's make room for the colony in Toupellon. ::)

Quote from: Heq on February 13, 2012, 01:54:00 AM
Arcaea to new realm(s).

I don't know if it will happen, but it really depends on if everyone holds together after the transitionary period.  I don't see Arcaean political refugees going to OW, but most would probably go Toup/Kindara if they are "big realm" nobles.  Not a lot of options for the Adgharians though.

did you mean Arcachon instead of Arcaea?

Nope, generally Arcachonians are going to predetermined locales.  Arcaea has dropped more then 20 active in the last couple of months, though the whole FEI needs some action as it's losing active across the board.

I tried to get things going in Toupellon, but I think there are too many "status quo" nobles there. Not surprising since so much of the realm is former Cathayan. That and the weird Adagharhinist/Sartanian dynamic. I need a score card to figure out who I'm plotting with/against. Joseph's sudden revelation and new religion loses me a possible supporter, too. We need to do *something* though. OW is only a short term distraction.

Yeah, and even there the overall goal seems to be "let's just make a show of force and then we can be at peace again."

Toupelleon is probably just Too Damn Big.

Quote from: Heq on March 26, 2012, 12:24:43 AM
Arcaea has dropped more then 20 active in the last couple of months

Most of those were the former Arcachonians who joined Arcaea and then proceeded to do absolutely nothing. We had some 12-15 join us, and only 4 made any effort whatsoever to integrate or do anything at all.

But I agree. We do need more wars. I don't think we'll have to wait too long.

Quote from: Indirik on March 26, 2012, 12:33:22 AM
I tried to get things going in Toupellon, but I think there are too many "status quo" nobles there. Not surprising since so much of the realm is former Cathayan. That and the weird Adagharhinist/Sartanian dynamic. I need a score card to figure out who I'm plotting with/against. Joseph's sudden revelation and new religion loses me a possible supporter, too. We need to do *something* though. OW is only a short term distraction.

I recently provided Toupellon's King an opportunity to probably provoke war with Zonasa, but he wouldn't bite.

Quote from: Perth on March 26, 2012, 07:50:55 AM
I recently provided Toupellon's King an opportunity to probably provoke war with Zonasa, but he wouldn't bite.

Why fight a richer and well equipped realm when you can beat the crap out of a weak one? ;D

Seriously though, don't worry, I don't think Zonasa has to wait too long before war is on its footsteps.

Uhhh...because a real war can get your plotting and half-insane nobles off your back and at least make them conspire against you quietly.   ;D

There is nothing more dangerous then nobles with too much time on their hands.

The incident with Zonasa could have been interesting. Except for two things: 1) our army was already mustered in the north to attack OW. Canceling the war we had already declared we were going to fight in the north to return south to fight Zonasa would have taken forever. And no doubt OW would have used the opportunity to attack our back. 2) Toupellon is already too damn big. The last thing we need is another duchy in the south. We already have a hard enough time controling our regions and keeping them all fed. Adding another city to the mix is insane.

So, you get points for trying, but then lose them for for trying to do something that was just the wrong thing.

That so-called offer also came with a time limit of about 8 real-life hours. I don't think you're going to spark large wars with that kind of situation very often,  especially since Claude would have essentially needed declared war without support from the council or nobles at the same time as Toupellon had just declared war on Ohnar West. Intriguing from an OOC perspective, but not how Claude (or any reasonable King) operates.

Fair enough, all!

I wasn't saying it was smart or strategic or blah blah blah, was just saying I put my two cents into trying to help is all!  :P

Quote from: Indirik on March 26, 2012, 01:35:10 PM
and keeping them all fed. Adding another city to the mix is insane.

Haul feeds itself. It even produces a small surplus; it actually exports food from time to time.  :)

Yeah, I half expected that Galen would take Haul to Toupellon or just succeed.  Alas, would have been a good war.

I'm hoping that we will be able to get a war started with Toupellon soon.  Though with GA would be even more preferable, but we have even less justification to go to war there.

A war with Arcaea is always a possibility, too, but then we can't take any of their rurals . . . and we really need another rural.

Quote from: BardicNerd on March 26, 2012, 08:45:13 PM
or just succeed.  Alas, would have been a good war.

I assume you mean "secede" and Haul can't because it's not a city, it's a stronghold  :(

Quote from: Perth on March 27, 2012, 12:20:12 AM
I assume you mean "secede" and Haul can't because it's not a city, it's a stronghold  :(

Obviously I meant that you should be successful in your goals.



Yeah, secede, that.  Unfortunate, that could have really been fun.  Though the current mess is fun, too, even if it is probably going to end up kill the Church of Echad, which I really did want to see succeed.

Quote from: BardicNerd on March 27, 2012, 01:09:47 AM
Yeah, secede, that.  Unfortunate, that could have really been fun.  Though the current mess is fun, too, even if it is probably going to end up kill the Church of Echad, which I really did want to see succeed.

Meh, it may kill it who knows.

Like I've said it has been pretty unsuccessful anyways, and I was getting very bored with Galen. No one seemed interested in the Church at all, even the members lol.

Quote from: Perth on March 27, 2012, 02:02:39 AM
Meh, it may kill it who knows.

Like I've said it has been pretty unsuccessful anyways, and I was getting very bored with Galen. No one seemed interested in the Church at all, even the members lol.

Big religions generate interest.

Speaking of... go nudge some people in Eston. Cyrilos needs more power to be able to really get things moving.

Quote from: Vellos on March 27, 2012, 02:36:57 AM
Big religions generate interest.

Speaking of... go nudge some people in Eston. Cyrilos needs more power to be able to really get things moving.

I was just thinking about Cyrilos/Warrior Saints/Eston today. I am going to send you an OOC maybe we can flesh some ideas out.

Quote from: BardicNerd on March 26, 2012, 08:45:13 PM
Yeah, I half expected that Galen would take Haul to Toupellon or just succeed.  Alas, would have been a good war.

I'm hoping that we will be able to get a war started with Toupellon soon.  Though with GA would be even more preferable, but we have even less justification to go to war there.

A war with Arcaea is always a possibility, too, but then we can't take any of their rurals . . . and we really need another rural.

Really? GA? I can understand you wanting to start a war, but to fabricate one with your tiny, weak ally?

Quote from: Perth on March 27, 2012, 02:02:39 AM
Meh, it may kill it who knows.

Like I've said it has been pretty unsuccessful anyways, and I was getting very bored with Galen. No one seemed interested in the Church at all, even the members lol.

Eh, it seemed to be slowly growing, which is better than the Order of the Elders is doing . . . I think it was actually on track to becoming the main religion in Zonasa.  Not real soon, but eventually.  Morgan had actually been thinking about converting, which is politically impossible now.

Quote from: Velax on March 27, 2012, 05:18:13 AM
Really? GA? I can understand you wanting to start a war, but to fabricate one with your tiny, weak ally?

Understand it from our point of view: they're fairly useless in a fight (and so not much use as allies except to drag us into fights to protect them), have land we want, and their ruler hasn't responded to any of my several attempts to communicate.

Wups... Not a superpower after all. At least, not for very long.

QuoteLetter from Claude Finsternis   (13 minutes ago)
Message sent to everyone in your realm (44 recipients)
Dear Nobles of Toupellon,

[...stuff...]

Aside from ceremonial duties and communication in this process, and with great sadness, I hereby dissolve the government of Toupellon.
Claude Finsternis
King of Toupellon

Oh, I dunno. It had a good six months. Longer than some realms have survived.

I suspect it might be a unique problem in that we never overextended by combat or force, but were overextended from the very beginning when more Duchies joined than even the ones Anatole and I had been working to convince.

So what will it split into? I'm not there anymore but I'm still curious.

Quote from: bluexmas on April 19, 2012, 07:25:31 PM
I suspect it might be a unique problem in that we never overextended by combat or force, but were overextended from the very beginning when more Duchies joined than even the ones Anatole and I had been working to convince.

Skewered by our own success? Or by the lack of ambition of the various dukes involved?

Quote from: vonGenf on April 19, 2012, 07:27:34 PM
So what will it split into? I'm not there anymore but I'm still curious.

Butchered realm names and a lot of drama.

Blessèd Sorraine... This realm must be destroyed... Horrid name with " and ~.

Remember Toupellon started out as Tou[ellon as well. Maybe the Realm is just honouring its roots properly ;)

Quote from: Zakilevo on April 19, 2012, 09:45:55 PM
Blessèd Sorraine... This realm must be destroyed... Horrid name with " and ~.

I tried my best, I swear, but the system always wins. Always.

Blessèd Kingdom of Sorraine - and that means wut? english words with a touch of french? :D

Quote from: Arrakis on April 19, 2012, 10:03:32 PM
Blessèd Kingdom of Sorraine - and that means wut? english words with a touch of french? :D

Does it really have to mean anything? Blessèd was to give it a formal english feeling to it, and to symbolize its importance as a religious state, while Sorraine is just easy on the tongue. I didn't want to ruin the realm by specifically naming it after Sartan. What if there was an MA surge and they revolted to take power? Changing names of realms, as I've been told, is a very tedious task - hence I eased the pain of any rebellious figures.

Because that's what *every* ruler wants to do, make it easier on the rebels. :P

Quote from: Indirik on April 19, 2012, 10:35:23 PM
Because that's what *every* ruler wants to do, make it easier on the rebels. :P

Makes for interesting times, no? :P

Quote from: Zakilevo on April 19, 2012, 09:45:55 PM
Blessèd Sorraine... This realm must be destroyed... Horrid name with " and ~.

You should have seen "I Can't Believe It's Not Butter"  ;)

I don't wanna criticize or anything, but it could've been a better option to just named the realm Sorraine, and in the full name add the Blessed part, or even Most Divine. :)

Quote from: Arrakis on April 20, 2012, 12:01:37 AM
I don't wanna criticize or anything, but it could've been a better option to just named the realm Sorraine, and in the full name add the Blessed part, or even Most Divine. :)

To be honest, I agree with you. I was just so overjoyed and in the moment....

I also brought King Claude with me.... that was a mistake.

It makes it funnier. :)

Go, test the rebellion code!  It's a perfect opportunity!

Quote from: Foundation on April 20, 2012, 12:37:07 AM
Go, test the rebellion code!  It's a perfect opportunity!

Seriously though, wouldn't that be an excellent use of the dev server?

The rebellion code needs testing?

Quote from: egamma on April 21, 2012, 11:00:27 PM
Seriously though, wouldn't that be an excellent use of the dev server?

No matter how much you test something in a walled garden, users will find ways to break it once it is on production :)

Thus, you must strap the users to a chair and place them carefully into the walled garden for maximum effect.