As noted in the verdict, the OOC accusations have caused damage to the reputation to Toupellon and the players in it. I therefore ask that the decision be sent to everyone on the Far East island so that those who do not check the forum, but are aware of the situation, be told the decision so that it quells any continuing discussions and doubts about whether or not the secession was organised OOC.
Something tells me it won't be long before it'll go public...
It should have been publicly announced in Arcachon and Cathay, the realms where David D. has characters.
Can anyone confirm if this is the case?
Quote from: Nathan on October 14, 2011, 11:08:54 PMAs noted in the verdict, the OOC accusations have caused damage to the reputation to Toupellon and the players in it. I therefore ask that the decision be sent to everyone on the Far East island so that those who do not check the forum, but are aware of the situation, be told the decision so that it quells any continuing discussions and doubts about whether or not the secession was organised OOC.
This case had nothing to do with whether or not Toupellon was formed via OOC agreements, or via any form of powergaming. The case was about unsupported accusations of cheationg/abuse. If any island wide announcement was made, which by the way I completely disagree with, it should clearly state that the case was about unsupported accusations of cheating/abuse. This case did not, in any way, validate that Toupellon was formed fairly, and entirely through IC means.
Having been in on the formation of Toupellon for about three or so weeks before it was actually founded, I'm convinced that it was handled IC. And for my part, with perfectly IC justification for my character's actions, and the actions of others from OW. I know little about the Cathay side, having only exchanged messages with Anatole a little over a week before the secession. So I'm not accusing Toupellon being formed OOC or anything. I'm just saying that this case did not vet Toupellon's formation. The case was just about something else.
Well, apparently there wasn't even a notification in Arcachon, despite the fact that I checked the "public notification" box.
Quote from: Indirik on October 16, 2011, 03:33:22 AM
This case had nothing to do with whether or not Toupellon was formed via OOC agreements, or via any form of powergaming.
So I take it that is still under investigation? Like you I was involved in it, so I know that it wasn't formed OOC. I'm fairly certain that's a lot easier to check that than it is to resolve the cheating accusations.
Some peoples' perception of Toupellon has already been changed and some people have believed the argument that it was OOCly formed. If there is an investigation on whether it was formed OOC, then I would urge rapidity so that those perceptions can be corrected/confirmed. If there isn't, then I would ask that an announcement goes out to quell doubts.
Quote from: Nathan on October 16, 2011, 02:21:00 PMSo I take it that is still under investigation?
No. Why would it be? No one has brought forth a case against Toupellon or Anatole.
Quote from: Indirik on October 16, 2011, 04:41:21 PM
No. Why would it be? No one has brought forth a case against Toupellon or Anatole.
Then why mention it yourself if there is no doubt about whether it was or was not formed IC?
I believe that demonstrates my point. Even people who were involved in the formation of it still have to mention that the realm was formed IC. Those who still think that there was OOC planning behind Toupellon (as they believed what David was accusing) think badly about the realm, which is unfair. But nobody is putting them right, saying "no, it was just what David was saying and he's been told off for it".
Quote from: Vellos on October 16, 2011, 07:15:39 AM
Well, apparently there wasn't even a notification in Arcachon, despite the fact that I checked the "public notification" box.
the report to magistrates link doesn't even exist in stable. why should they get anything at all?
Quote from: Nathan on October 16, 2011, 05:43:32 PM
Then why mention it yourself if there is no doubt about whether it was or was not formed IC?
I believe that demonstrates my point. Even people who were involved in the formation of it still have to mention that the realm was formed IC. Those who still think that there was OOC planning behind Toupellon (as they believed what David was accusing) think badly about the realm, which is unfair. But nobody is putting them right, saying "no, it was just what David was saying and he's been told off for it".
Then do it yourself, if no one else is? The Magistrates work on summons, we aren't vigilantes that go running around the game invoking our authority to right every wrong we perceive as individuals.
To me, it was rather obvious the guy was pulling this stuff out of his ass when I read the letters, even if I have no idea of the context and am neither familiar with the player nor the continent.
Quote from: Nathan on October 16, 2011, 05:43:32 PMThen why mention it yourself if there is no doubt about whether it was or was not formed IC?
Just stating my personal opinion.
Quote from: fodder on October 16, 2011, 06:15:45 PM
the report to magistrates link doesn't even exist in stable. why should they get anything at all?
Then how did Anatole bring it up?
.... and how did we lock David D.'s account?
He reported it from another island, I believe.
yeah.. he did it via dwilight.
Very interesting.
Well, maybe direct people to the final verdict if they mention it.
I have indeed reported this issue through my character Charles in Outer Tilog, in Dwilight.
That is because until this week, contacting the Titans nor the Magistrates for that matter, was not an option available to Anatole, nor Taysir (my other character in Far East). This alone was strange enough and frustrating as well, for I could not bring before the Magistrate corps the issue directly from the character I had the issue with.
The option has become available only these few last days. I cannot explain why the Titans' communication channel was not available to Anatole even if he is my oldest character in my account, but I had to bring the matter under your attention.
I hadn't thought about it, but the Magistrates were only set up on testing, not stable. Since Tom poked his head in on the case, I'm not worried about it, but technically the Titans were supposed to handle stable still.
Quote from: Bedwyr on October 18, 2011, 06:31:47 AM
I hadn't thought about it, but the Magistrates were only set up on testing, not stable. Since Tom poked his head in on the case, I'm not worried about it, but technically the Titans were supposed to handle stable still.
Indeed. Makes me wonder why it's possible to report like this, or why the magistrates aren't generalized to every continent.
Quote from: Chénier on October 18, 2011, 09:04:32 AM
Indeed. Makes me wonder why it's possible to report like this, or why the magistrates aren't generalized to every continent.
It isn't and because the system is still itself in testing.
Quote from: ^ban^ on October 18, 2011, 10:23:58 AMIt isn't ...
Obviously it is. because it was.
The system for reporting is very general. It doesn't ask you the island, the realm, or any other identifying details. It just ask you for who the complaint is about, and your summary. That's it. It just assumes that you're reporting an incident on the island you're using to file the report. Probably because it doesn't make sense to go to another island to file the report.
But in this case the reporter couldn't. I
think it's because both of his characters on FEI were new to their realm. And I *think* the Titans link is intentionally disabled for the first 7 days of joining a new realm. I'm pretty sure I remember hearing it was intentional. It would be hard to imagine how it was
unintentionally disabled...
Quote from: Indirik on October 18, 2011, 12:27:40 PM
Obviously it is. because it was.
The system for reporting is very general. It doesn't ask you the island, the realm, or any other identifying details. It just ask you for who the complaint is about, and your summary. That's it. It just assumes that you're reporting an incident on the island you're using to file the report. Probably because it doesn't make sense to go to another island to file the report.
But in this case the reporter couldn't. I think it's because both of his characters on FEI were new to their realm. And I *think* the Titans link is intentionally disabled for the first 7 days of joining a new realm. I'm pretty sure I remember hearing it was intentional. It would be hard to imagine how it was unintentionally disabled...
Indeed, the titans are unnaccessible. For whatever silly reason that decides that newbies shouldn't have rights and the ability to report abuses, it was done on purpose.
I only just found the whole magistrates thread on the forums regarding accusations about the formation of Toupellon. Although the baseless accuser has been reprimanded, I still wanted to share how angry the fact that these OOC accusations against me (Claude Finsternis) were sent realm-wide. That is to say, VERY.
I feel that my reputation has been stained by someone full of sour grapes, even though this should have been a triumphant moment in Claude's career. Why should I be punished for taking the initiative to help found a new realm, something that certainly only adds interest to the game? It bugs me that someone would say that this was done with no roleplay or letters as if their character, who I have no idea about, should have access to everything that goes on. Every Lord in my Duchy and most of the knights knew about the plans I was making well ahead of time. If anything, I erred on the side of including too many people in my plans. All of them could (and some have on these forums) affirm that every single communication was done IC. One last point, who would possibly orchestrate a secession with no plan about who to put into the council positions? This is simply ridiculous.
I thank all of you, especially the magistrates, who have helped to clear this situation up, and I hope that you will continue to protect players who are playing this game in good faith.
Quote from: Chénier on October 18, 2011, 02:00:17 PM
Indeed, the titans are unnaccessible. For whatever silly reason that decides that newbies shouldn't have rights and the ability to report abuses, it was done on purpose.
It's to prevent multi's and griefers from flooding a realm with new characters and protesting out the leadership. Or overwhelming the titan with reports--not sure what good that would do, but I think it's fair enough.
Yes, there was a reason this was put in, and abusing the Titan system was one of them. We used to receive lots of complaints from people new to a realm that were nonsense, misunderstandings, people not getting the spirit of their new realm. Putting this restriction in dramatically reduced the noise in the system.
Quote from: Tom on October 20, 2011, 01:53:42 PM
Yes, there was a reason this was put in, and abusing the Titan system was one of them. We used to receive lots of complaints from people new to a realm that were nonsense, misunderstandings, people not getting the spirit of their new realm. Putting this restriction in dramatically reduced the noise in the system.
New to the realm or new to the game?
Because I have a hard time understanding how the spirit of the realm should influence how the IRs and social contract are applied.
Quote from: Chénier on October 21, 2011, 03:03:26 AM
New to the realm or new to the game?
Because I have a hard time understanding how the spirit of the realm should influence how the IRs and social contract are applied.
I think he meant that people would file complaints based on misunderstandings. Thus the cases would have no merit, but the Titans were still having to examine each one.
Quote from: Geronus on October 21, 2011, 03:28:18 AM
I think he meant that people would file complaints based on misunderstandings. Thus the cases would have no merit, but the Titans were still having to examine each one.
I have to agree. If the Social Contract is violated, it will still be violated after seven days. If you have forgotten it by then... maybe it wasn't worth reporting.