What about building buildings that increase loyalty towards the realm in surrounding regions?
Upgrading them could increase the area of effect or the effect its self.
The buildings could be anything, any big stone or metal thing will always impress peasants.
This leaves also allot of room for RP, like memorial statues for certain nobles or groups of nobles, or a god.
This way it is also fun to tear them down. :P
Offcourse they would also cost to upkeep, but not to much.
The effect in the game wouldn't be to large, the RP effect it will have will be much larger.
When you enter a city of some megalomaniac ego centrist, you find your self surounding by statues in his honor.
When you enter some religious freaks city, you will be surounded with idols, large temple complexes(we already have that) and statues of religious persons.
This easily makes regions(we could also limit this to cities and strongholds only) much different and gives places much more character.
The first month or so could also give a small morale boost in the region it's self.
The costs should be large of course(something like atleast 700 to 1000 for a small statue) it should be something exclusive and not really strategically worth it, so it's only really attractive for RP reasons(to prevent statues beeing build without any rp background).
And also to have multple nobles participate by donating or so, so it's not a one mans job.
No.
Too much automation. Why would I add a feature that results in more people having even less to do?
Quote from: Tom on November 08, 2011, 01:06:42 PM
Too much automation. Why would I add a feature that results in more people having even less to do?
No one would have any less to do, it just adds something to the character of a city and in game signs of history and the such.
This feature doesn't have to replace or automate other features.
The effect should stay minimum, it shouldn't be used to replace courtiers and diplomats.
The effect should be more psychological then real, perhaps even hidden so no one really knows what the exact effect is.
'Powergamers' wouldn't find it attractive, role players would.
Just imagine a statue being immortalized in your chars name, so when you return a few years later with another character you still can see and feel his or her legacy live on.
Quote from: Nosferatus on November 08, 2011, 09:03:07 PM
No one would have any less to do, it just adds something to the character of a city and in game signs of history and the such.
This feature doesn't have to replace or automate other features.
The effect should stay minimum, it shouldn't be used to replace courtiers and diplomats.
The effect should be more psychological then real, perhaps even hidden so no one really knows what the exact effect is.
'Powergamers' wouldn't find it attractive, role players would.
Just imagine a statue being immortalized in your chars name, so when you return a few years later with another character you still can see and feel his or her legacy live on.
The role-play aspect could be included without adding any loyalty mechanics to the system
I've always been in favour of allowing vanity projects with short-term benefits.
As a Lord, being able to simply pay a few gold to erect a statue of someone (and that appears in the Infrastructure menu in scout reports/ region details) would be cool. Or to pay a lot of gold :) Examples would be commemoration stones for battles, fallen heroes and declarations, statues for peers or deities, ...
One could argue that the Lord can already put this in the region description, but I believe this untrue. The value of such rp elements would be really enhanced by conspicuous spending.
Quote from: Shizzle on November 09, 2011, 08:36:30 AM
As a Lord, being able to simply pay a few gold to erect a statue of someone (and that appears in the Infrastructure menu in scout reports/ region details) would be cool. Or to pay a lot of gold :) Examples would be commemoration stones for battles, fallen heroes and declarations, statues for peers or deities, ...
One could argue that the Lord can already put this in the region description, but I believe this untrue. The value of such rp elements would be really enhanced by conspicuous spending.
Well you can, but first there is no guarantee that the next Lord will leave it in the description, and there is the issue of how often people actually read descriptions (besides me, but then I'm the type of guy that when I go to a Zoo or Museum I absolutely have to read every displays information). Which leads me to my next questions, besides the initial message that I assume will be generated on its construction, how do we make the statue or whatever prominent to those visiting the region?
Quote from: De-Legro on November 09, 2011, 09:14:10 AM
Well you can, but first there is no guarantee that the next Lord will leave it in the description, and there is the issue of how often people actually read descriptions (besides me, but then I'm the type of guy that when I go to a Zoo or Museum I absolutely have to read every displays information). Which leads me to my next questions, besides the initial message that I assume will be generated on its construction, how do we make the statue or whatever prominent to those visiting the region?
If you wanted it to be prominent maybe in the travel report?
Such as:
Arrival (x hours, x minutes ago)
You have arrived in Barad Lacirith, a City region (friendly territory).
You see a statue for the fallen hero X
Quote from: De-Legro on November 09, 2011, 09:14:10 AM
Well you can, but first there is no guarantee that the next Lord will leave it in the description, and there is the issue of how often people actually read descriptions (besides me, but then I'm the type of guy that when I go to a Zoo or Museum I absolutely have to read every displays information). Which leads me to my next questions, besides the initial message that I assume will be generated on its construction, how do we make the statue or whatever prominent to those visiting the region?
Some ideas:
* The monument can be looted/damaged, which causes morale issues in the region.
* Perhaps you can visit it, or perform some action with it that grants your troops a little morale. Could be not unlike paying them to have fun and raise their morale.
* Shrines could have a similar value added, if they gained an action of some sort like described in the previous point.
* It could have an effect on loyalty and diplomatic work, for example.
Quote from: JPierreD on November 09, 2011, 11:09:23 AM
Some ideas:
* The monument can be looted/damaged, which causes morale issues in the region.
* Perhaps you can visit it, or perform some action with it that grants your troops a little morale. Could be not unlike paying them to have fun and raise their morale.
* Shrines could have a similar value added, if they gained an action of some sort like described in the previous point.
* It could have an effect on loyalty and diplomatic work, for example.
Nah, I'm not convinced. What if a realm that has just looted a region to the ground erects a statue for the conqueror? Surely the local populace would not be happier because of it?
All I'd like is being able to pay for a tiny bit of 'advertisement' space in a region :)
Quote from: JPierreD on November 09, 2011, 11:09:23 AM
Some ideas:
* The monument can be looted/damaged, which causes morale issues in the region.
* Perhaps you can visit it, or perform some action with it that grants your troops a little morale. Could be not unlike paying them to have fun and raise their morale.
* Shrines could have a similar value added, if they gained an action of some sort like described in the previous point.
* It could have an effect on loyalty and diplomatic work, for example.
I'm against the monument having any real in game mechanics beyond RP value. We don't need a new improvement for power gamers to spam all over the place.
I agree.
Being able to upgrade roads would be nice :)
Quote from: Ramiel on November 10, 2011, 01:20:11 AM
Being able to upgrade roads would be nice :)
Well you can. It just takes a while ;)
Quote from: Shizzle on November 09, 2011, 09:36:54 PM
Nah, I'm not convinced. What if a realm that has just looted a region to the ground erects a statue for the conqueror? Surely the local populace would not be happier because of it?
Just require good stats in the region in order to start such kind of project. Wouldn't that solve it?
Quote from: De-Legro on November 09, 2011, 10:08:41 PM
I'm against the monument having any real in game mechanics beyond RP value. We don't need a new improvement for power gamers to spam all over the place.
That will only happen if the bonus are large, but if they are minimal for a high cost it won't be used for power gamers, because it won't be worth it per se, it's value would be the RP one, with a slight game-mechanics effect to make it more tangible.
Some times negligible game mechanics effect improves the RPs. I can RP having a heavily armored guard with my priest, but infiltrators will sneak into my camp in the same way. If I could spend money in hiring guards to slightly reduce the odds of infils stabbing me, then the RP would be much more satisfactory, even if the safety effect is minimal.
Quote from: Shizzle on November 10, 2011, 09:37:42 PM
Well you can. It just takes a while ;)
Tell me how to O Mighty Shizzle, please impart your wisdom and knowledge on me!!!!
Quote from: Ramiel on November 11, 2011, 12:46:59 AM
Tell me how to O Mighty Shizzle, please impart your wisdom and knowledge on me!!!!
Raising the production of the regions?
civil work does improve roads, but you can have 100% production and damaged roads.
I'd definitely spend one or two thousand gold on a statue that didn't do anything but tell everyone who came into the region how cool I was. What else are rich dukes supposed to do with all their cash?
Actually, it would be pretty cool if you could erect statues to other people. "My favorite knight/my mentor/my lover/whatever has fallen in battle, I shall build a statue for him." "I shall prove I love you by building a statue in your honor! It shall be almost as beautiful as you are!"
Didn't Tom say that you'd eventually be able to build all sorts of buildings with different effects when the New Estate system was finished? If they actually have in-game effect, maybe they should be part of that.
agreed, perhaps the statue should have no game mechanics effect.
I'd too spend 1 to 2 k on a statue for my self as long as it can't be destroyed by some silly looting.
Only the region lord should be able to bring it down.
Can we take a bunch of ideas like this one and put them in a sub-forum labeled "new economy?"
This will have to wait until the Doctrine conversion and the New Estates are both done, along with almost everything else.
Quote from: Ramiel on November 11, 2011, 12:46:59 AM
Tell me how to O Mighty Shizzle, please impart your wisdom and knowledge on me!!!!
I've once heard that well-travelled roads are better and seldom travelled roads degrade, and therefore it can be useful to travel on a badly damaged road once in a while.
Basically the effect is that by travelling, you have to cut the overgrowth and repair any bridge/path that is broken, so that next time it won't be as long.
I think it has an effect, though it may well just be confirmation bias.
Quote from: vonGenf on November 14, 2011, 09:16:30 AMI've once heard that well-travelled roads are better and seldom travelled roads degrade, and therefore it can be useful to travel on a badly damaged road once in a while.
While this is a very interesting theory, I feel quite confident in saying that it is completely bogus.
Quote from: Indirik on November 14, 2011, 02:39:41 PM
While this is a very interesting theory, I feel quite confident in saying that it is completely bogus.
Damn. Too bad. :(
Quote from: vonGenf on November 14, 2011, 02:47:19 PM
Damn. Too bad. :(
Would have been cool :)
My statement was based on the assumption that a period of stability (high production for a long time, no looting/rogues) would automatically 'repair' the road network. That's why I said it takes a while :P
Quote from: Shizzle on November 14, 2011, 03:09:51 PM
Would have been cool :)
My statement was based on the assumption that a period of stability (high production for a long time, no looting/rogues) would automatically 'repair' the road network. That's why I said it takes a while :P
That sounds reasonable. Any feedback from the devs?
Quote from: egamma on November 14, 2011, 04:09:41 PM
That sounds reasonable. Any feedback from the devs?
Yes, that's how roads get repaired.
Quote from: Anaris on November 14, 2011, 04:11:37 PM
Yes, that's how roads get repaired.
All bow to the "O Mighty Shizzle"!
Anyways, statues would be cool, yes. Even very expensive statues :P
Quote from: Shizzle on November 15, 2011, 12:36:51 AM
All bow to the "O Mighty Shizzle"!
Anyways, statues would be cool, yes. Even very expensive statues :P
Agreed, I already have in Roleplay a statue of me put up by another Lord :P
I am not sure how these buildings/statues would be different than a family investment. The investment helps production is that used by power gamers? Have the statue help for the short term as investments do, and then after wards you have a RP statue to deal with.
I like the idea of region lords being able to construct a single statue/monument. It needn't have any in-game mechanics associated save for construction/destruction/rot/view, and the corresponding messages on construction/destruction. Basically a nerfed shrine with a description. I am torn on the idea of putting a link to in on the arrival page, though it might add to the immersion somewhat.
Though elaborate monuments to the dead exist in some region descriptions, the role-play feel advantages, and permanence of this route seem obvious. The downside would be that the monument would be set in stone, not terribly conducive to a cemetery. Perhaps the description could allow appending, but not overwriting, at significant cost of course.
Quote from: von_neumann on January 03, 2012, 08:19:05 PM
The downside would be that the monument would be set in stone, not terribly conducive to a cemetery. Perhaps the description could allow appending, but not overwriting, at significant cost of course.
The monument could have 4 sides, so a maximum of 3 updates (plus the initial inscription).