The seas of battle-master are essentially controlled by pirates. Long ago there was an empire with a powerful naval force which controlled all the seas of the world. A rebellion within that empire drove the rightful king from his throne. The king fled to his loyal navy and took to the seas. With mastery of all the trade routes of the world the navy found it could sustain itself indefinitely. The pirate fleet continued to rule the seas while the empire, bereft of its greatest resource slowly crumbled into nothing.
Since then the fleet of the Pirate King has factionalized into competing and often waring trade companies, but they share a common pact, they'll never be holden to the rule of the land lovers. If any realm were to try and build their own fleet, the pirate nations would instantly unite against it. Therefore no realm bothers to try, after all the pirate fleets are more then happy to transport their goods and ferry their troops from place to place. Furthermore if any pirate fleet dared pillage a land realm, the other fleets would unite and destroy them. It is in this way that the pirate fleet and the realms of the land maintain their peace.
I guess no one liked this idea...
Why do we need this?
We don't need it, it's just a fun idea.
This is a good possibility, but there are other possible explanations and no need to enforce a single one.
What other possibilites do you suggest?
Quote from: pcw27 on April 02, 2012, 12:24:50 AM
We don't need it, it's just a fun idea.
Then roll with it as your character's explanation for why navies are the way they are.
My characters, personally, have never come into a situation where they needed to explain something like this. *shrug*
Quote from: pcw27 on April 02, 2012, 02:33:37 AM
What other possibilites do you suggest?
The seas are too unpredictable, battling in ships is both dangerous and inglorious. We are nobles, not pirates. And we want land, not seas, there are no peasants to tax in the seas. Just of the top of my mind.
Quote from: JPierreD on April 02, 2012, 02:58:23 AM
The seas are too unpredictable, battling in ships is both dangerous and inglorious. We are nobles, not pirates. And we want land, not seas, there are no peasants to tax in the seas. Just of the top of my mind.
Fighting on horseback in a sailing boat seems troublesome, as well.
Besides, it's well-known that all boats belong to D'Hara anyways, and that D'Hara would not risk putting one of her boats in a fight against another one of her boats. :P
Don't know if there are many boats leaving Paisley at the moment, with those clouds there.
Quote from: Velax on April 02, 2012, 04:33:29 AM
Don't know if there are many boats leaving Paisley at the moment, with those clouds there.
They may have set sail long ago, but we still built them, and the sailors are still D'Harans. :P
Quote from: Chénier on April 02, 2012, 03:16:56 AM
Fighting on horseback in a sailing boat seems troublesome, as well.
Besides, it's well-known that all boats belong to D'Hara anyways, and that D'Hara would not risk putting one of her boats in a fight against another one of her boats. :P
Does D'hara roleplay that as a fact?
Quote from: JPierreD on April 02, 2012, 02:58:23 AM
We are nobles, not pirates. And we want land, not seas, there are no peasants to tax in the seas. Just of the top of my mind.
That sounds like the sort of things nobles would say as an excuse not to try and take back the seas ;D
Quote from: pcw27 on April 02, 2012, 11:07:54 PM
Does D'hara roleplay that as a fact?
D'Hara is generally RPed as being something like Venice or Sicily. Some italian costal city-state.
Now, I exagerated in my original comment, but there have been RPs that would go along the lines of D'Harans often being employed as sailors by foreign powers and a good chunk of the Mediterranean's commercial fleets (that haul goods and people from port to port, regardless of origin) as being of D'Haran origin, given how D'Hara has a history of neutrality, is in the middle of the sea, and is strongly trade-oriented.
I know I've joked on at least a few occasion that Madinians were sea-sick land pirates, and that D'Harans were the true sailors of the world, since Madina is mostly one big isle and that the vast majority of them never crossed more water than the extremely narrow trait between Candiels and Tower Fatmilak, on top of their usually poor performances when they fight after sea travel (in Paisly or Candiels). I think I've seen others joke about this at least once too.
Claiming that *all* sailors and boats are D'Haran would be a bit over the top, imo, but D'Harans have RPed themselves as being the true masters of the seas. Not to mention that the faithful of Verdis Elementum (main religion) majoritarily dedicate themselves to the study of the element of Water.
After all, one must take the boat 3 times to cross the whole realm, and we feed ourselves via our traders who regularly take these awfully long sea routes to access the various markets.
Quote from: pcw27 on April 02, 2012, 11:07:54 PM
Does D'hara roleplay that as a fact?
I was pushing to have our General named "Grand Admiral" or somesuch a year ago. What use do we have for an army? We need a navy!
Quote from: egamma on April 03, 2012, 05:02:09 AM
I was pushing to have our General named "Grand Admiral" or somesuch a year ago. What use do we have for an army? We need a navy!
Oh... you could follow in the footsteps of Madina. They didn't think they needed an army either.
Quote from: Indirik on April 03, 2012, 05:12:44 AM
Oh... you could follow in the footsteps of Madina. They didn't think they needed an army either.
Madina also declared war on a realm very close to theirs and didn't have allies. D'Hara is allied with both nearby realms and travel times are prohibitive through the Desert, and the ocean route from Giask. Even sailing from Madina, Golden Farrow, and Mimer is quite an undertaking in the winter. And our cities have huge walls and you can't flank us or cut us off. Forget Balance's Retreat--D'Hara has the best position on the map.
Quote from: egamma on April 03, 2012, 05:02:09 AM
I was pushing to have our General named "Grand Admiral" or somesuch a year ago. What use do we have for an army? We need a navy!
So was I. Maybe I should do it now for real?
I remember it was at the end of your last mandate. I wanted to write a constitution, which I never got to doing. I also wanted to reform our titles to something more republic-like, naming the ruler Archon and the general Grand Admiral. Mind you, that was back when Caerwyn was still alive and it was actually appealing to improve relations with Madina.
"Lord Admiral" sounds good...
Quote from: Chénier on April 03, 2012, 02:02:55 PM
So was I. Maybe I should do it now for real?
I remember it was at the end of your last mandate. I wanted to write a constitution, which I never got to doing. I also wanted to reform our titles to something more republic-like, naming the ruler Archon and the general Grand Admiral. Mind you, that was back when Caerwyn was still alive and it was actually appealing to improve relations with Madina.
"Lord Admiral" sounds good...
I'll let you bring it up IC. I wouldn't mind a title refresh either...cant think of one at the moment.
it was called admiral, because all the positions (barring the doge.. and maybe the judge) stemmed from navy terms. reflecting the origin of the realm. (ship wreck)
banker -> purser
Quote from: fodder on April 03, 2012, 03:32:05 PM
it was called admiral, because all the positions (barring the doge.. and maybe the judge) stemmed from navy terms. reflecting the origin of the realm. (ship wreck)
banker -> purser
Maybe:
Lord Admiral
Lord Purser/Lord Bursar/Lord Treasurer
Lord Arbiter/Lord Chancellor/Lord Justice
Quote from: egamma on April 03, 2012, 03:37:46 PM
Maybe:
Lord Admiral
Lord Purser/Lord Bursar/Lord Treasurer
Lord Arbiter/Lord Chancellor/Lord Justice
That's along the lines of what I was thinking.
The inspiration for RP is mainly italian, but the UK is my inspiration for our government system.
Quote from: Chénier on April 04, 2012, 02:23:32 AM
That's along the lines of what I was thinking.
The inspiration for RP is mainly italian, but the UK is my inspiration for our government system.
It would be really cool to see Condottieri in BM...
Sea monsters. They're also why traveling across the ocean waters is so perilous and expensive. No one in their right mind would want to risk sea monsters.
Quote from: JPierreD on April 04, 2012, 04:50:41 AM
It would be really cool to see Condottieri in BM...
Not gonna happen in D'Hara. Dependance on food is too high to have a militaristic agenda.
...food XD i bought all that foreign food and none of our cities has seen fit to buy it
Quote from: fodder on April 06, 2012, 09:07:46 PM
...food XD i bought all that foreign food and none of our cities has seen fit to buy it
Personally, I find it quite a bit more difficult to comprehend where food comes from and goes to with the new system. It seems like all of a sudden, there's just way more food than we can handle lying around, and that we don't know what to do with the food we produce ourselves. And this despite me doing less than I've ever done to import.
does it matter where it comes from or goes to? i would have thought all you need to know is that you need food. and then figure out how much reserve you need.... then buy away if you need food.
maybe it'll help if daily reports tell you how many days of food you have left? that's not hidden info anyway.
The Command tab directly shows you how many days of food you have in your warehouse. You can look at it any time you want.
Quote from: fodder on April 06, 2012, 11:30:30 PM
does it matter where it comes from or goes to? i would have thought all you need to know is that you need food. and then figure out how much reserve you need.... then buy away if you need food.
maybe it'll help if daily reports tell you how many days of food you have left? that's not hidden info anyway.
If you are in a normal realm, sure, knowing there is food is enough.
If you are in a realm that has a serious deficit due to having a ton of cities and barely any food producing regions, on a continent that has seasons, then no. Because the continental markets don't offer a steady sum all year round.
Making sure we had enough stocked to survive the winter, without buying too much and having it rot for nothing, was always a major challenge.
Not to mention that the population and food consumption changes totally screwed all of my planification tables, which I'll have to redo. Warehouses being treated like any other building changes a few things as well (one or two warehouses fell apart, but they are otherwise much cheaper).
With Allison being herself, I've not had the time to dedicate to redoing all of the calculations, nor the will to massively invest in warehouses.
Quote from: Chénier on April 06, 2012, 11:47:30 PM
If you are in a normal realm, sure, knowing there is food is enough.
If you are in a realm that has a serious deficit due to having a ton of cities and barely any food producing regions, on a continent that has seasons, then no. Because the continental markets don't offer a steady sum all year round.
Making sure we had enough stocked to survive the winter, without buying too much and having it rot for nothing, was always a major challenge.
Not to mention that the population and food consumption changes totally screwed all of my planification tables, which I'll have to redo. Warehouses being treated like any other building changes a few things as well (one or two warehouses fell apart, but they are otherwise much cheaper).
With Allison being herself, I've not had the time to dedicate to redoing all of the calculations, nor the will to massively invest in warehouses.
You could speak to the realms' banker about all that. I know how many days' supply of food we have, and I have ideas about how many warehouses we need and where they go, etc.
All you, as lord of a food-deficit region, need to know is how much food you have, and is there enough food for sale on the markets within 400 miles of you to supply your needs. I think you should build enough granaries to store 30-60 days of food. Beyond that, don't worry about it.
Quote from: egamma on April 07, 2012, 03:58:53 AM
You could speak to the realms' banker about all that. I know how many days' supply of food we have, and I have ideas about how many warehouses we need and where they go, etc.
All you, as lord of a food-deficit region, need to know is how much food you have, and is there enough food for sale on the markets within 400 miles of you to supply your needs. I think you should build enough granaries to store 30-60 days of food. Beyond that, don't worry about it.
Relying on others to get the job done has had disastrous results in the past. I'm not a fan of leaving critical operations entirely to third parties.
With 6 granaries, I can survive for about 46 days...
So, is it me or do I know less than before about my duchy? I used to know the consumption and production rates of all regions in my duchy. Only the banker knows this now?
Personally, I'd rather have enough granaries to last 84 days. :P Damn Allison can't mind her own business...
Quote from: Chénier on April 07, 2012, 04:10:22 AM
Relying on others to get the job done has had disastrous results in the past. I'm not a fan of leaving critical operations entirely to third parties.
With 6 granaries, I can survive for about 46 days...
So, is it me or do I know less than before about my duchy? I used to know the consumption and production rates of all regions in my duchy. Only the banker knows this now?
Personally, I'd rather have enough granaries to last 84 days. :P Damn Allison can't mind her own business...
And the weekly reports I send out on the status of our food don't make you feel any better? You've got a trust problem.
The less informational is probably intentional. You should get a daily report if the region are out of food, otherwise you don't need to bother with it.
Quote from: egamma on April 07, 2012, 04:35:50 AM
And the weekly reports I send out on the status of our food don't make you feel any better? You've got a trust problem.
The less informational is probably intentional. You should get a daily report if the region are out of food, otherwise you don't need to bother with it.
No, it doesn't. On another continent, sure, but not on one with seasons. A surplus one season is easy to turn into a horrible deficit the next. Without knowledge of what each region produces and consumes individually, per day and per season, I'm not comfortable.
What I need is to update my excel spreadsheet. I want to have access to this information, and this at any time of any day, without having to go write to someone and wait for a reply.
It's not that I don't trust you specifically, it's that I've seen many people do a bad job or cause harm either because they couldn't be bothered, because they forgot, because they didn't know how, because something serious happened to their character, because they got angry/rebellious, because they outright became inactive and left the game, or simply because they got replaced by someone else who ends up fitting one of these via elections.
I don't really care about food with any of my other characters. But I always care about vital information/activities, and make sure to at least stay in the loop. In D'Hara, since all of those food/trade/pop changes, I don't feel like I'm in the loop, because all I have is superficial data that allow no serious planning or analysis. A mere "there is enough food for X days" is not satisfactory to me.
I trust you personally to do something if it our food situation deteriorates, but that's not the point. The point is that I want to be able to plan ahead and make decisions based on our long-term food situation. The ignore it would be the same as a ruler of a militaristic realm never paying attention to the realm's infrastructure or total CS. Sure, there's a general who can do that, but how's the ruler gonna make his long-term decisions (alliances, wars, defense pacts) if he doesn't have an idea of what the situation of his realm's military capacity will be in a month or two? In five?
Since food is intimately tied to D'Hara's diplomacy, it should come as no surprise that the one in charge of diplomacy would like to know more than simply how long the current reserves will last.
Again, instead of complaining on the forums, ask my character IC for the information you need want.
Quote from: Indirik on April 06, 2012, 11:34:57 PM
The Command tab directly shows you how many days of food you have in your warehouse. You can look at it any time you want.
oh yeah, i know that.
the only reason for sticking it in the daily report is make life a bit easier for those who don't regularly look things up.
perhaps a warning threshold somewhere in settings? - mention the number of days left if it's below X days of food left in granary
chances are it won't make much difference as they'll miss it anyway
---
and chenier, there's no challenge. there's food around.. because i put up 3k bushels myself which no one has bought. if people don't buy unless it's dirt cheap and if they run out of food, then tough. there's no such thing as overbuying, all you need to do is keep building more granaries. the problem is not about a lack of food around the place.
you could argue about the cost of granaries... if you think it's too expensive. or you can sell the excess food to zuma or whoever, if they are buying.
this discussion has left the original topic, thus I'll close it now.