Can a King swear an oath to a region lord?
(I swear I look for all this stuff on the wiki it just isn't there)
Yes, I think rulers can. However, the last time I tried this was in a theocracy in 2009. Bedwyr would know since he's a monarchy ruler who might have a regional oath.
Indeed, Monarchs can have estates. Jenred gets most of his gold from his oath to Talex, in point of fact, and Alanna gets most of hers from Askileon.
Quote from: Bedwyr on March 16, 2011, 10:15:19 PM
Indeed, Monarchs can have estates. Jenred gets most of his gold from his oath to Talex, in point of fact, and Alanna gets most of hers from Askileon.
Not under my watch she didn't. When I took over from Proslyn, Alanna had a 1% oath, which she kept as long as I was Duke of the city.
Maybe that's why you got banned. :o
Quote from: Sacha on March 16, 2011, 10:27:26 PM
Not under my watch she didn't. When I took over from Proslyn, Alanna had a 1% oath, which she kept as long as I was Duke of the city.
That changed as part of a deal to make the wealth/property taxes much less onerous.
Rulers can keep their existing estates, but cannot sign a new oath. For example, my character Gellin had an estate in Rollsovar. He was elected and kept the estate. Then the region went rogue, and he can no longer have an estate.
egamma is correct. A noble who has an oath and gets elected ruler keeps their existing oath and estate. However, once you become ruler you cannot swear a new oath of fealty.
You have to remember that an "estate" is part of an oath of fealty. That means you are swearing to serve and obey a lord who you acknowledge is in charge of you, and has a right to tell you what to do, and you are sworn to obey. These oaths of service all point to the top, which ends up with the ruler. And the person at the top swearing fealty to someone at the bottom just doesn't make sense at all.
That's odd. When was this implemented?
I don't know. The incident I had in Perdan with it was in October 2010, when we gave Partora to Caligus. My ruler character had an oath to Partora. I could not offer an oath to Perdan city, nor could the duke offer to me. When the city swapped to Caligus, I went with it.
Ok, so a recent change I guess, unless it depends on government type. Adriddae can attest that Garret got an oath to Flowrestown after the colony's ruler elections. This was in 2008 though, so it is very likely that something changed in those 2 years.
it was at the same time that they said "no ducal knights" and "no imperial knights" and "everyone should fit neatly in the hierarchy".
Saeculo, the ruler of a Republic was able to accept an oath to the Duke of Barad Falas (the realms Capital) and he did so around a month ago, having previously been the Lord of another region before becoming Ruler.
Perhaps the stable worlds can still have ruler oaths?
Quote from: Munro on March 19, 2011, 02:49:56 AM
Saeculo, the ruler of a Republic was able to accept an oath to the Duke of Barad Falas (the realms Capital) and he did so around a month ago, having previously been the Lord of another region before becoming Ruler.
So he did not have a current oath at the time the Duke offered one? Perhaps that's the key.
Quote from: Indirik on March 19, 2011, 03:14:37 AM
So he did not have a current oath at the time the Duke offered one? Perhaps that's the key.
You want to know what the key is? This is it: ONLY the Duke of the Capitol city can offer an oath to the Ruler. The Ruler can not request an oath of anyone, even the Duke of the capitol. Also, he did not have a current oath at the time it was offered as far as I am aware.
The capital city is a red herring. Or at least not all of it. My ruler of Perdan could not get an oath from the duke of Perdan city, which was our capital at the time. I could not offer one either. This was just 6 months ago.
Quote from: Indirik on March 19, 2011, 06:03:07 AM
The capital city is a red herring. Or at least not all of it. My ruler of Perdan could not get an oath from the duke of Perdan city, which was our capital at the time. I could not offer one either. This was just 6 months ago.
You can't offer an oath in the normal way. The only way that I've seen it work is that when they become ruler, they "already" are a noble belonging the region of the capitol. They have an oath to the capitol, but without any tax share. This can be rectified by offering to give them a tax share as one would a new noble to the realm that is "belonging to your region".
QuoteYou can't offer an oath in the normal way. The only way that I've seen it work is that when they become ruler, they "already" are a noble belonging the region of the capitol. They have an oath to the capitol, but without any tax share. This can be rectified by offering to give them a tax share as one would a new noble to the realm that is "belonging to your region".
Interesting. This must be extremely rare however, has anyone else been in this situation who is able to confirm this?
Quote from: Silverfire on March 19, 2011, 06:07:54 AM
You can't offer an oath in the normal way. The only way that I've seen it work is that when they become ruler, they "already" are a noble belonging the region of the capitol.
Actually, the capital is just coincidence. The key is that they are already aligned to the region. And while that would be the capital 99% of the time, it's not always. In Perdan, my character was duchess of Castle Ubent. When she got elected as ruler, she lost the duchy and became a noble of Partora, which was the capital at the time. But then we moved the capital to Perdan, she was no longer a knight of the capital city.
Based on what I know of the code, that makes a bit more sense.
Quote from: Indirik on March 19, 2011, 10:05:40 PM
Actually, the capital is just coincidence. The key is that they are already aligned to the region. And while that would be the capital 99% of the time, it's not always. In Perdan, my character was duchess of Castle Ubent. When she got elected as ruler, she lost the duchy and became a noble of Partora, which was the capital at the time. But then we moved the capital to Perdan, she was no longer a knight of the capital city.
Based on what I know of the code, that makes a bit more sense.
Okay that makes perfect sense to me. If you had tried to become a knight of Partora you likely would have been able to. I think whenever they become ruler, they become a noble of the capitol. If the capitol changes at a later time during their rule, then they won't change loyalties of regions.
Quote from: Indirik on March 19, 2011, 10:05:40 PM
The key is that they are already aligned to the region. And while that would be the capital 99% of the time, it's not always.
Indeed. For one of my realms, the ruler took control of a region, then passed it on to my character. However, the ruler still "belongs" to the region (although he does not receive a share of the gold), so he can be offered an oath. I suspect that this "belonging" is a state similar to when a character starts out in a region and they then "belong" to it.