Quote from: Ender on September 17, 2012, 10:33:47 PM
That looks fantastic! Keeps the banner prominent on the top but puts a name to the face. Very, very nice.
+1
Now I am going to be bad and momentarily go off-topic and ask, who do you think will colonize in the big rogue area, Sint or Nothoi? And long till it happens if you know and can share the plans. Sorry Tom for going off-topic but I want to join whatever is colonized there, assuming its colonized.
The Draconic Union (Northern Alliance) will be colonizing it.
Quote from: Draco Tanos on September 17, 2012, 11:13:02 PM
The Draconic Union (Northern Alliance) will be colonizing it.
*Coughs* What realms are the draconic union? I am not on Beluterra yet.
Sint is making plans for it. No one else matters. ;)
Can a mod move these posts into a new thread so we can talk about it more?
Quote from: Penchant on September 17, 2012, 11:16:58 PM
*Coughs* What realms are the draconic union? I am not on Beluterra yet.
Sint, Old Grehk, Nothoi, and Thalmarkin. An OG noble will have the leader slot.
Pretty sure it is just called the 'Northern' Alliance. Never once have I heard that name when I was in Fronen through Enweil to Thalmarkin...
Quote from: Indirik on September 17, 2012, 11:27:42 PM
Sint is making plans for it. No one else matters. ;)
*coughs* I disagree :P
Quote from: Zakilevo on September 18, 2012, 02:47:19 AM
Pretty sure it is just called the 'Northern' Alliance. Never once have I heard that name when I was in Fronen through Enweil to Thalmarkin...
I think it is similar to on Dwilight where everyone not in the moot calls it just the moot but those in it call it by its full name, the Veinsormoot.
The Draconic Union is the name of the guild that was used to share info during the invasion. I can assure you that no one from Sint refers to the alliance as the Draconic Alliance, or anything else similar. In fact I've never heard the term applied to the alliance before.
Quote from: Indirik on September 18, 2012, 03:18:18 AM
The Draconic Union is the name of the guild that was used to share info during the invasion. I can assure you that no one from Sint refers to the alliance as the Draconic Alliance, or anything else similar. In fact I've never heard the term applied to the alliance before.
In both Fronen and Enweil, I called it the Northern Alliance or NA or just the Alliance.
Quote from: Penchant on September 18, 2012, 03:01:28 AM
I think it is similar to on Dwilight where everyone not in the moot calls it just the moot but those in it call it by its full name, the Veinsormoot.
Not really. We also use 'moot internally, except when we can easily copy-paste the whole unpronouncable (funky spelling), unwrittable (funky letters), and unrememberable (funky sounding) name.
"Draconic Union" in no way is as funky as the 'moot's real name. After all this time, I still can't remember how to spell out the 'moot's name correctly.
Quote from: Indirik on September 18, 2012, 03:18:18 AM
The Draconic Union is the name of the guild that was used to share info during the invasion. I can assure you that no one from Sint refers to the alliance as the Draconic Alliance, or anything else similar. In fact I've never heard the term applied to the alliance before.
Thanks for the clarification.
Quote from: Chénier on September 18, 2012, 04:37:20 AM
Not really. We also use 'moot internally, except when we can easily copy-paste the whole unpronouncable (funky spelling), unwrittable (funky letters), and unrememberable (funky sounding) name.
"Draconic Union" in no way is as funky as the 'moot's real name. After all this time, I still can't remember how to spell out the 'moot's name correctly.
True, though it is rememberable (at least for me, maybe not for you) and for writing/spelling I believe it's what I wrote but with a funky o because it's the Norwegian O or something like that I think.
Back on topic, how long do you estimate it to be until the colony is made?
They could reclaim the regions around Heen & Tahgalez within a few weeks, but the regions are badly underpopulated. A colony in the desert is probably a long ways away.
Sint is being swamped with monster and undead groups coming out of the rogues. We're trying to capture them as fast as we can to stop the spawn, but it is a slow process. It's going to be a while before a colony can be started. Sint is also the only one who can do it, too, since there is no CTO implemented right now. Sint will have to TO over to the Heen city, then secede the new realm. With four cities missing from that section of the map, it's going to be a lot of empty land controlled by the new realm in Heen. Unless Nothoi spawns Reeds as a new realm, which I don't think is supposed to happen.
You should just leave it all to the rogues!
Reeds will probably be the new capital of Nothoi once they return Dyomoque to us (Fronen)...
Underpopulation:
I am not sure that population growth - and peasant movements - are working as intended.
In Riombara we took Rii (previously being a blighted region) around 2 months ago. It had around 1000-1100 pop. Since that time we had 1-2 rogue units pop up there, always being eliminated fast. The region has an extremely low taxrate, has been at perfect stats for the whole time, has a well populated region (7100 out of 9200), highly taxed next to it (Ardmore). Rii now has a population of 1400. If this is the best growth we can look at then Rii will be repopulated in around 2 RL years. Under perfect conditions. For the regions farther away from our well populated isles conditions are similar (very, very little pop growth), it will be even longer. Creating a colony in Jidington would be possible earliest in 1 RL year.
I will look into it more closely from now on, recording pop levels of a few regions to get exact numbers.
Should I put this on the bugtracker or is this working as intended?
The growth depends on the underlying population, so even without taking into account migration, you should look at an exponential compounded growth.
If the region grows by 40% every two months, within 10 months it will be at full pop. And it does not need to be at full pop to be productive. Droxago with 2100 pop already produces > 50 gold/week, closer to 80 gold if you count food production, which is plenty enough for one noble. As the lands grows, there will be room for more knights, but the land is already stable.
And anyway, we should not create a colony in Jidington. But that is another debate, I guess.... ;)
Quote from: Tan_Serrai on September 19, 2012, 11:29:05 AM
Underpopulation:
I am not sure that population growth - and peasant movements - are working as intended.
In Riombara we took Rii (previously being a blighted region) around 2 months ago. It had around 1000-1100 pop. Since that time we had 1-2 rogue units pop up there, always being eliminated fast. The region has an extremely low taxrate, has been at perfect stats for the whole time, has a well populated region (7100 out of 9200), highly taxed next to it (Ardmore). Rii now has a population of 1400. If this is the best growth we can look at then Rii will be repopulated in around 2 RL years. Under perfect conditions. For the regions farther away from our well populated isles conditions are similar (very, very little pop growth), it will be even longer. Creating a colony in Jidington would be possible earliest in 1 RL year.
I will look into it more closely from now on, recording pop levels of a few regions to get exact numbers.
Should I put this on the bugtracker or is this working as intended?
Pfffft, you should have seen what it was like on Dwilight in the early days before the migration code existed. Trust me, these numbers are totally normal, and yes it really did take a year or more for some regions to become productive. Ardmore appears to not be at it's maximum population, so it won't generate any immigrants until it is. Once it hits max, it should start sending immigrants to both Grehk and Rii.
Edit: I should note that I'm actually not positive about how the immigration mechanic works. It may not require a region to be at maximum population. Just remember that however it works, Rii will also be competing with Grehk for Ardmore's immigrants.
I am reasonably sure that a region does not need to be at maximum to send migrants to a neighbouring region. Difference in taxes and happiness were the main factors as far as I remember....oh, and I happen to had a char on Dwilight...he brought a rural (Maeotis) from around 200 peasants to full population...grin.
I am not troubled if repopulating a region takes 8 months. A year would be a bit much for gameplay reasons. Two years would be far too long. Note that quite a few regions on Beluaterra have less than 500 peasants...and is this is 'only' the effect of the blight. It might bring more dynamic to the island if pop growth would be somewhat higher. Or if 1000-1500 peasants 'come out of hiding' once a formerly blighted region has been under control, safe and happy for 1-2 months. As it is I think that significant areas will take forever to grow back to 2000 peasants. Combine that with the fact that it is impossible to recruit from regions that are below 3/4 population (is that still the case?) and you are looking at 'no colonies' for along, long time.
It's like 75-80% of max population is needed to start emigration and I am pretty sure the recruitment that Tan said is no longer true.
The Draconic Union is in fact the Northern Alliance. It's a guild that was created to allow for good communication between Sint, Nothoi, OG and Thalmarkin for the war against Fronen, later the guild was adapted to be used for invasion-communication, simply because it was an existing, relatively wide-spread guild in those 4 realms.
We should refer to it as the Draconic Union more often.
SOoo.... any colonies forming?
Take a look yourself:
http://battlemaster.org/dynamicmap3.php?ShowWorld=4
Nope, no new realms in sight. :-)
One will be founded in the Heen-desert.
And probably one or two in the South too depending on how things evolve there (including secessions). :)
Quote from: Tom on October 25, 2012, 09:02:11 PM
Take a look yourself:
http://battlemaster.org/dynamicmap3.php?ShowWorld=4
Nope, no new realms in sight. :-)
I saw that; I was wondering if any world form soon.
Quote from: Vellos on October 25, 2012, 09:57:44 PM
I saw that; I was wondering if any world form soon.
Populations aren't anywhere near recovered enough yet (mainly causing problems because there aren't any blasted smithies you can use because they collapse too quickly), but once Riombara is back on its feet more, expect to see some.
Quote from: Bedwyr on October 26, 2012, 05:11:45 AM
Populations aren't anywhere near recovered enough yet (mainly causing problems because there aren't any blasted smithies you can use because they collapse too quickly), but once Riombara is back on its feet more, expect to see some.
You can now sail to far-off corners to do so too.
I just want to chime in to support the complaint about population recovery. We're talking literal real-life years until these regions—rurals, not just cities—recover, because they're relying on new births alone. Migration only works when you don't have vast swaths of land devoid of human life. I know that growth is on a curve, but it's a damned slow curve. BM isn't supposed to be a simulator. Until populations recover, you can pretty much expect zero war. There are serious diplomatic proposals to recognize a minimum 6-month peace period. Is that a trade-off everyone is happy with? I think it sucks.
Yeah...Reeds is a region that is going to take a long time to return back on it's track.
We now have a population of 490 of 38400 possible.
With 11 births a day... with most of our former rogue regions with population on the 100, it's going to take a long loooong time until immigrants start flowing and we have a bigger growth rate
do you get "immigrants from far away places have arrived." messages? Because in such depopulated areas you should, we added that exactly for those cases.
Quote from: Tom on October 26, 2012, 02:27:09 PM
do you get "immigrants from far away places have arrived." messages? Because in such depopulated areas you should, we added that exactly for those cases.
I know I haven't gotten those in Unger, at the lowest point it had 8K out of 28k peasants though so I don't know if that's low enough.
QuoteCurrent population in Irombro: 3206 of 18600 possible.
Irombro has seen no immigrants at all, only growing through natural growth of the region itself (about 10-20 or so a day?). I don't know when it's supposed to trigger though and if Irombro is still eligible for it. I can ask around Riombara to see if anyone has noticed it, if desired. We have various regions under 1000 population, including Grehk (though Grehk should sometimes be receiving immigrants from Ardmore, and has a current population of 952, and IIRC started out around 300)
Quote from: Tom on October 26, 2012, 02:27:09 PM
do you get "immigrants from far away places have arrived." messages? Because in such depopulated areas you should, we added that exactly for those cases.
The only messages I get concerning population are the ones on the regional daily report and those are:
Low population and drained manpower causes lowered productivity.
Population is growing through 11 new births.
Quote from: Tom on October 26, 2012, 02:27:09 PM
do you get "immigrants from far away places have arrived." messages? Because in such depopulated areas you should, we added that exactly for those cases.
I only get new birth messages. 11-14 a day, which, even if you apply a steady exponential curve will take more than a year IRL, and potentially two, for my particular city. It's relatively small in comparison to what they're talking about in the desert, too.
With this current rate, not considering immigration, Reeds would gain 3696 peasants a year.
With a total pop of 38400, it would take almost 10 years to return to max capacity.
Quote from: Tom on October 26, 2012, 02:27:09 PM
do you get "immigrants from far away places have arrived." messages? Because in such depopulated areas you should, we added that exactly for those cases.
Never seen this, only the normal birth rate.
Quote from: Naidraug on October 26, 2012, 03:52:45 PM
With this current rate, not considering immigration, Reeds would gain 3696 peasants a year.
With a total pop of 38400, it would take almost 10 years to return to max capacity.
Population growth even without immigration is a function of your current population. The more people you have, the more pop out. I would still guess a year given the widespread population die-off, although if all the regions surrounding were at full pop six months, perhaps.
I like the gritty feel of constantly fighting the ever-spawning hordes with the little gold one's devastated regions actually produce, personally.
QuotePopulation is growing through 14 new births.
35 immigrants from far away places have arrived.
Working now. And quite the improvement :)
Quote from: Naidraug on October 26, 2012, 03:52:45 PM
With this current rate, not considering immigration, Reeds would gain 3696 peasants a year.
With a total pop of 38400, it would take almost 10 years to return to max capacity.
No region takes 10 years to return to max capacity. Population growth is not linear.
Quote from: Naidraug on October 26, 2012, 03:52:45 PM
With this current rate, not considering immigration, Reeds would gain 3696 peasants a year.
With a total pop of 38400, it would take almost 10 years to return to max capacity.
Wrong. You assume a linear growth, but it is exponential. Here's the difference:
(http://naturalsciences.sdsu.edu/ta/classes/lab2.7/expgrwthvslin.gif)
mmm... Irombro...
Just sayin: if Irombro secedes, I will put a character there ASAP.
Quote from: Vellos on October 28, 2012, 08:16:53 PM
mmm... Irombro...
Just sayin: if Irombro secedes, I will put a character there ASAP.
You should go there now, and make it secede.
Still got some open Estates in Irombro. Got my Bedwyr in Rii. Get a Chenier and a Vellos in Irombro, just need a Lefanis then ;D
Quote from: Telrunya on October 28, 2012, 09:38:00 PM
Still got some open Estates in Irombro. Got my Bedwyr in Rii. Get a Chenier and a Vellos in Irombro, just need a Lefanis then ;D
Got some princess to marry off to Guillaume Chénier?
Quote from: Telrunya on October 28, 2012, 09:38:00 PM
Still got some open Estates in Irombro. Got my Bedwyr in Rii. Get a Chenier and a Vellos in Irombro, just need a Lefanis then ;D
I'll come ;D
Quote from: Tom on October 27, 2012, 06:33:10 PM
Wrong. You assume a linear growth, but it is exponential. Here's the difference:
(http://naturalsciences.sdsu.edu/ta/classes/lab2.7/expgrwthvslin.gif)
Oh right, haven't considered that.
Quote from: Telrunya on October 28, 2012, 09:38:00 PM
Still got some open Estates in Irombro. Got my Bedwyr in Rii. Get a Chenier and a Vellos in Irombro, just need a Lefanis then ;D
Oh, good lord. A realm with all of us in it would either be the best thing ever and would take over the whole continent, or we'd all kill each other in increasingly elaborate plots, counter plots, counter-counter plots, and occasionally some straightfoward stabbing.
Quote from: Bedwyr on October 29, 2012, 08:41:03 PM
Oh, good lord. A realm with all of us in it would either be the best thing ever and would take over the whole continent, or we'd all kill each other in increasingly elaborate plots, counter plots, counter-counter plots, and occasionally some straightfoward stabbing.
Well...
I don't think the former is possible, for one simple reason:
Not one single person in the game would be willing to trust a realm with
all of you in it.
Quote from: Anaris on October 29, 2012, 09:11:47 PM
Well...
I don't think the former is possible, for one simple reason:
Not one single person in the game would be willing to trust a realm with all of you in it.
However, we could plot from our own realms, and establish an elaborate empire via weddings.
I'm not sure who would make a worthwhile Riombaran heir, though...
Quote from: Anaris on October 29, 2012, 09:11:47 PM
Well...
I don't think the former is possible, for one simple reason:
Not one single person in the game would be willing to trust a realm with all of you in it.
I wouldn't trust a realm with me in it....
You are doomed to failure without me. ;)
Quote from: Anaris on October 29, 2012, 09:11:47 PM
Well...
I don't think the former is possible, for one simple reason:
Not one single person in the game would be willing to trust a realm with all of you in it.
Actually, we would be perfectly trustworthy: it is utterly inconceivable that anything in such a realm could be a secret for long, as we are all relentless gossips. We'd be a perfectly transparent realm.
Quote from: Vellos on October 30, 2012, 02:48:32 AM
Actually, we would be perfectly trustworthy: it is utterly inconceivable that anything in such a realm could be a secret for long, as we are all relentless gossips. We'd be a perfectly transparent realm.
Our secrets would have secrets and sooner or later someones head would explode.
Well, it's been almost a month, so any news on this?
It's been some time, and after a lot of negotiations we finally have a draft for all the positions and regions that should form the new colony. Sint is taking over everything south of it and will from the colony within this month or at the beginning of next, depending how fast the colonists will join.
For all those history nerds, the Northern Alliance (and the guildhouses) was formed before the fourth invasion somehow fell apart during, and was reformed by OG in between the fourth and fifth with the new name. We in Sint refer to it both as NA and DU, whatever fits best.
Quote from: Aelradir on November 23, 2012, 08:42:00 AM
It's been some time, and after a lot of negotiations we finally have a draft for all the positions and regions that should form the new colony. Sint is taking over everything south of it and will from the colony within this month or at the beginning of next, depending how fast the colonists will join.
For all those history nerds, the Northern Alliance (and the guildhouses) was formed before the fourth invasion somehow fell apart during, and was reformed by OG in between the fourth and fifth with the new name. We in Sint refer to it both as NA and DU, whatever fits best.
So, I am guessing its going to be a monarchy?
who are "the colonists"?
Thal, OG, Sint and Nothoi, with quite equally spread influence (goverment positions, lords and dukes). The nobles contains of anyone willing to go.
Remains to see if any other realms are generously gifted some positions as well :)
Quote from: Noldorin on November 28, 2012, 01:40:07 PM
Thal, OG, Sint and Nothoi, with quite equally spread influence (goverment positions, lords and dukes). The nobles contains of anyone willing to go.
Remains to see if any other realms are generously gifted some positions as well :)
How soon will this be made? What is the government type?
Depends what sort of infusion of funds we can get and how soon the future Lords and Ladies of the realm can be appointed and swear allegiance to the Duchy of Heen.
...and when Thalmarkin finally decides who IT is sending to be Lords and a council position.
It will be a monarchy in government type.
Oh, everyone else has choosen?
I am kinda delayed since I am waiting for answers from multiple rulers... but well well. I have at least the General and 1 of the lords positions choosen so far :p
It doesnt get easier by other realms appointing Thalmarkian nobles as their candidates either.
They want to steal your best people away from you! For me! >.>
But yes, everyone else has chosen their Lords and Councillors. Actually... I have to double check who Sint is wishing the banker to be (as Nothoi clamed judge, Thalmarkin's claimed general, and OG already chose the future ruler) The lords are what really matter though. But yeah, mostly waiting on you!
Whoops!
Problem is that noone wants to leave the allmighty Thalmarkin... I have to search the other realms for volunteers :p
Just don't volunteer any Melhedians. I'd hate any discussions with the Lords to drag out for months before a decision is reached.
Quote from: Draco Tanos on December 06, 2012, 10:22:50 AM
Just don't volunteer any Melhedians. I'd hate any discussions with the Lords to drag out for months before a decision is reached.
I'd like to discuss that statement, we don't always want to make everything into a discusion.
I mean everyone knows that.
Quote from: Nosferatus on December 06, 2012, 12:04:44 PM
I'd like to discuss that statement, we don't always want to make everything into a discusion.
I mean everyone knows that.
You would like to discuss how you don't always discuss everything. Yeah...you are going to be real successful in that discussion.
Quote from: Penchant on December 06, 2012, 10:24:26 PM
You would like to discuss how you don't always discuss everything. Yeah...you are going to be real successful in that discussion.
;)