I don't trust my own memory on this subject. Please clarify something for me:
Are two realms allowed to merge into one peacefully?
Also:
Scenario 1: Realms A and B are not at war. All regions of realm A merges into realm B. This is obviously a peaceful realm merger.
Scenario 2: Realms A and B are not at war. Most regions of realm A merges into realm B, leaving behind a duchy consisting of a few rural regions. Is this still considered a peaceful realm merger?
Scenario 3: Realms A and B are not at war. Most regions of realm A merges into realm B, leaving behind a duchy consisting of a city and a few rural regions. Is this still considered a peaceful realm merger?
Scenario 4: Realms A and B are not at war. Most regions of realm A merges into realm B, leaving behind a duchy consisting of a city and a few rural regions. The enlarged realm B then attacks and annexes what remains of realm A. The weakened realm A does not (or is unable to) fight back. Is this still considered a peaceful realm merger?
Quote from: GoldPanda on October 24, 2012, 09:06:21 AM
I don't trust my own memory on this subject. Please clarify something for me:
Are two realms allowed to merge into one peacefully?
No. From the Rules and Policies page on the wiki:
- Realm mergers are illegal. Realms may surrender to another, including annihilation of their lands, but they may not merge as equal entities on friendly terms.
Quote from: GoldPanda on October 24, 2012, 09:06:21 AM
Also:
Scenario 1: Realms A and B are not at war. All regions of realm A merges into realm B. This is obviously a peaceful realm merger.
Scenario 2: Realms A and B are not at war. Most regions of realm A merges into realm B, leaving behind a duchy consisting of a few rural regions. Is this still considered a peaceful realm merger?
Scenario 3: Realms A and B are not at war. Most regions of realm A merges into realm B, leaving behind a duchy consisting of a city and a few rural regions. Is this still considered a peaceful realm merger?
Scenario 4: Realms A and B are not at war. Most regions of realm A merges into realm B, leaving behind a duchy consisting of a city and a few rural regions. The enlarged realm B then attacks and annexes what remains of realm A. The weakened realm A does not (or is unable to) fight back. Is this still considered a peaceful realm merger?
I think "on friendly terms" is the key word here, not how many regions change allegiance.
Isn't "friendly terms", or rather the lack thereof, rather easy to fake?
Quote from: GoldPanda on October 24, 2012, 10:42:10 AM
Isn't "friendly terms", or rather the lack thereof, rather easy to fake?
Cheating is forbidden even when it's easy.
Quote from: GoldPanda on October 24, 2012, 09:06:21 AM
I don't trust my own memory on this subject. Please clarify something for me:
Are two realms allowed to merge into one peacefully?
Also:
Scenario 1: Realms A and B are not at war. All regions of realm A merges into realm B. This is obviously a peaceful realm merger.
This is blocked by the game.
Quote
Scenario 2: Realms A and B are not at war. Most regions of realm A merges into realm B, leaving behind a duchy consisting of a few rural regions. Is this still considered a peaceful realm merger?
This is blocked by the game.
Quote
Scenario 3: Realms A and B are not at war. Most regions of realm A merges into realm B, leaving behind a duchy consisting of a city and a few rural regions. Is this still considered a peaceful realm merger?
This is considered a duchy switching allegiance, not the realm. I think this could be illegal if the ruler of realm A planned for this to happen.
Quote
Scenario 4: Realms A and B are not at war. Most regions of realm A merges into realm B, leaving behind a duchy consisting of a city and a few rural regions. The enlarged realm B then attacks and annexes what remains of realm A. The weakened realm A does not (or is unable to) fight back. Is this still considered a peaceful realm merger?
You put the words "attack" and "peaceful" in the same scenario. I think this could be illegal if the ruler of realm A planned for this to happen.
Quote from: vonGenf on October 24, 2012, 11:57:43 AM
Cheating is forbidden even when it's easy.
And jay-walking is illegal even when it's easy. When was the last time anyone got arrested for jay-walking? A rule means nothing if it's not enforceable on everyone.
What I'm saying is, rules should be based on what happens in the game. "You can't order anyone to recruit a certain unit type." Not based on what's going on in player's minds."You can't have realm mergers, but if the ruler did not approve of it then it's totally okay." Why not just "You can't have realm mergers, period. It doesn't matter who was aware or not aware of it, or approved or did not approve of it."
Quote from: egamma on October 24, 2012, 02:45:06 PM
This is blocked by the game.
Duchy Changes Allegiance (1 hour, 16 minutes ago)
message to Everyone on Dwilight
The Courts of Stone has changed its allegiance with all its regions to the realm of Luria Nova. The duchy used to belong to Solaria.
Apparently not. :o
Quote from: GoldPanda on October 24, 2012, 08:33:01 PM
What I'm saying is, rules should be based on what happens in the game. "You can't order anyone to recruit a certain unit type." Not based on what's going on in player's minds."You can't have realm mergers, but if the ruler did not approve of it then it's totally okay." Why not just "You can't have realm mergers, period. It doesn't matter who was aware or not aware of it, or approved or did not approve of it."
If there was a button "Merge realms" in the game, and you were not allowed to click it, then it would be easy. Sadly there's not. What you call realm mergers are in fact series of perfectly legal actions which have an undesirable end result. Therefore it's all about intent.
Quote from: GoldPanda on October 24, 2012, 08:33:01 PM
And jay-walking is illegal even when it's easy. When was the last time anyone got arrested for jay-walking? A rule means nothing if it's not enforceable on everyone.
What I'm saying is, rules should be based on what happens in the game. "You can't order anyone to recruit a certain unit type." Not based on what's going on in player's minds."You can't have realm mergers, but if the ruler did not approve of it then it's totally okay." Why not just "You can't have realm mergers, period. It doesn't matter who was aware or not aware of it, or approved or did not approve of it."
Duchy Changes Allegiance (1 hour, 16 minutes ago)
message to Everyone on Dwilight
The Courts of Stone has changed its allegiance with all its regions to the realm of Luria Nova. The duchy used to belong to Solaria.
Apparently not. :o
Our mayor got a fine for jay-walking last year... :P
I know several people who have been ticketed for jaywalking.
Keep in mind that it is possible, and legal, for a realm to give up or surrender in a war, resulting in the loser being absorbed into the winner, especialy if the losing realm has been reduced to something that could not survive on its own.
Quote from: Indirik on October 25, 2012, 03:43:57 AM
Keep in mind that it is possible, and legal, for a realm to give up or surrender in a war, resulting in the loser being absorbed into the winner, especialy if the losing realm has been reduced to something that could not survive on its own.
Minus the war, that's what politically was forced upon Solaria. The 'war' was Sun Hall switching, leaving BR and Tranquil, then Tranquil left. A single non-productive non-capital stronghold would not have supported itself for more than a minute.
Quote from: Chénier on October 24, 2012, 11:59:45 PM
Our mayor got a fine for jay-walking last year... :P
thats awesome ;D
Quote from: Penchant on October 25, 2012, 07:51:03 AM
thats awesome ;D
Union troubles, police hadn't had a working convention in years (the last one expired like 3 years prior I think).
Still, pretty funny. ;)
Quote from: GoldPanda on October 24, 2012, 08:33:01 PM
Duchy Changes Allegiance (1 hour, 16 minutes ago)
message to Everyone on Dwilight
The Courts of Stone has changed its allegiance with all its regions to the realm of Luria Nova. The duchy used to belong to Solaria.
Apparently not. :o
Bug exploit (http://bugs.battlemaster.org/view.php?id=7360)
Quote from: vonGenf on October 24, 2012, 08:52:47 PM
If there was a button "Merge realms" in the game, and you were not allowed to click it, then it would be easy. Sadly there's not. What you call realm mergers are in fact series of perfectly legal actions which have an undesirable end result. Therefore it's all about intent.
I think I get what you're saying. Just disallow it mechanically in-game.
There should be some sort of check when a duke tries to defect with his duchy: If the number of cities+strongholds in the duchy is equal to the number of cities+strongholds in the realm, then he should not be allowed to switch his duchy's allegiance, because the rest of the realm has no cities or strongholds left.
Quote from: GoldPanda on October 27, 2012, 09:14:03 AM
I think I get what you're saying. Just disallow it mechanically in-game.
There should be some sort of check when a duke tries to defect with his duchy: If the number of cities+strongholds in the duchy is equal to the number of cities+strongholds in the realm, then he should not be allowed to switch his duchy's allegiance, because the rest of the realm has no cities or strongholds left.
Yes, as has been said this is what is supposed to happen and it is a bug that the check did't work. But it doesn't cover your scenarios 3&4.
If a dutchy leaves a realm to create a new realm and then fails, can it rejoin the mother-realm?
Quote from: DamnTaffer on October 28, 2012, 12:20:12 AM
If a dutchy leaves a realm to create a new realm and then fails, can it rejoin the mother-realm?
You can not fail in creating a realm. You click a button and its done, from then on you are an independent realm and terms like "mother-realm" don't have a game-mechanics meaning anymore.
Quote from: DamnTaffer on October 28, 2012, 12:20:12 AM
If a dutchy leaves a realm to create a new realm and then fails, can it rejoin the mother-realm?
thats called kaap de goede hoop or indonesia, the word is duchy, not dutchy.
and no indonesia can't rejoin us any more! puh! they had there chance!
A dutchy is either a citizen of the netherlands or a doobie, a J, a spliff or a reefer.
Quote from: Tom on October 28, 2012, 02:11:29 AM
You can not fail in creating a realm. You click a button and its done, from then on you are an independent realm and terms like "mother-realm" don't have a game-mechanics meaning anymore.
i think what he meant is... what if they fail to create a viable realm out of their secession. obviously the realm is still there. how to rejoin the old realm without all abandoning the new one and letting the capital go rogue/TO'ed/whatever.
Quote from: fodder on October 29, 2012, 04:58:46 PM
i think what he meant is... what if they fail to create a viable realm out of their secession. obviously the realm is still there. how to rejoin the old realm without all abandoning the new one and letting the capital go rogue/TO'ed/whatever.
Um...actually, I think you've just described exactly how to rejoin the old realm.
Duchy Changes Allegiance (2 hours, 19 minutes ago)
message to Everyone on Dwilight
the Maddening Star has changed its allegiance with all its regions to the realm of Astrum. The duchy used to belong to Kabrinskia.
Kabrinskia just merged with Astrum.
Quote from: GoldPanda on November 12, 2012, 07:43:47 AM
Duchy Changes Allegiance (2 hours, 19 minutes ago)
message to Everyone on Dwilight
the Maddening Star has changed its allegiance with all its regions to the realm of Astrum. The duchy used to belong to Kabrinskia.
Kabrinskia just merged with Astrum.
I am NOT ok with that.
vvv I know, just whining in general. Makes me feel better because I'm exactly that kind of person. XD
Quote from: Marlboro on November 12, 2012, 07:48:12 AM
I am NOT ok with that.
Use the in-game options to complain. Forum complaints will NOT lead to any actions.
fundamentally though ... is it allowed or not?
Quote from: fodder on November 12, 2012, 08:38:27 AM
fundamentally though ... is it allowed or not?
No, it isn't.
I would first like to say that I am on the fence with this one. First off, the player of Allison is a very experienced player who I've never seen use any kind of exploit. So I for one think this was probably a mistake on their part. That being said, they really should have paid attention to the Magistrates case regarding the realm merger bug.
Why should we expect that? Should we expect even people who don't use the forums to be aware of Magistrate cases? If this bug isn't going to be fixed quickly, then a message needs to be put into the in-game secession page stating that there is a bug and this action is not allowed under certain circumstances.
Quote from: Velax on November 12, 2012, 10:56:11 AM
Why should we expect that? Should we expect even people who don't use the forums to be aware of Magistrate cases? If this bug isn't going to be fixed quickly, then a message needs to be put into the in-game secession page stating that there is a bug and this action is not allowed under certain circumstances.
I will accede to the point you have made, that is true and should be fixed.
you mean this has never been mentioned on irc?
Why has the bug not been fixed? When Solaria did it, it should have been clear that this undesireable behavior was possible.
Quote from: Chénier on November 12, 2012, 12:48:28 PM
Why has the bug not been fixed? When Solaria did it, it should have been clear that this undesireable behavior was possible.
There are other priorities.
Hey, why are you using my realm icon for the undead?!
Quote from: ^ban^ on November 12, 2012, 02:31:34 PM
There are other priorities.
Hey, why are you using my realm icon for the undead?!
This should be a pretty high priority, imo.
And I'm using it because there isn't the icon for Xerolco, Fheuv'n, or the new Enweilian one. And D'Hara's banner is !@#$-ugly.
All players are not expected to keep up with the status of bugs. They are expected to read the Rules and Policies page on the wiki.
I can understand the confusion dustole, it similarly showed up after a 'big' event for me. I'm not a fan of capital duchy switches, nor final duchy switches, as it does kill a lot of fun for a lot of people.