The report before my last utterly vanished (pausing making me lose guild positions)... I've never seen this before. Was there anything wrong with it? It's not marked as fixed, it's just gone without a trace...
split from a topic it had absolutely nothing to do with. why put this question into an important sticky topic, chenier?
Regarding your question - you got any more details, like a number or so?
#0007466 <--- this one? perhaps you haven't set it to show "closed"?
Quote from: fodder on October 26, 2012, 04:33:14 PM
#0007466 <--- this one? perhaps you haven't set it to show "closed"?
That's the one! I couldn't find it anywhere anymore.
As for why I wrote this where I did... I don't know. Might have been a mistake, might have been sleepy. I can't recall.
Wait, what? Cold storage removes you from guilds intentionally?
Why on earth?
at the top left of tracker is something called status. click the link will allow you to filter things.. try setting it to "any"... similarly, hide "none"
Quote from: Chénier on October 29, 2012, 12:16:30 PM
Wait, what? Cold storage removes you from guilds intentionally?
Why on earth?
Cold storage is a type of pause that is
effectively indistinguishable from disappearing forever.
It must be, because anyone who pauses their character this way—or has it autopaused for them, which uses the same code—cannot be assumed to ever be returning to the game.
It's not fair to people who are actively playing their characters to have valuable elder slots—and other guild positions—taken up by characters who might very well be gone forever.
Put bluntly: If you want to keep anything but your characters' reputations, you need to keep playing them.
Quote from: Anaris on October 29, 2012, 09:00:01 PM
Cold storage is a type of pause that is effectively indistinguishable from disappearing forever.
It must be, because anyone who pauses their character this way—or has it autopaused for them, which uses the same code—cannot be assumed to ever be returning to the game.
It's not fair to people who are actively playing their characters to have valuable elder slots—and other guild positions—taken up by characters who might very well be gone forever.
Put bluntly: If you want to keep anything but your characters' reputations, you need to keep playing them.
So what do I do if I know I'll be unable to play for a month or so, but cannot say for sure if I'll be back in three weeks or in nine?
And is this explicitly stated on the pause page? Because my understanding is that one of the options auto-unpaused on its own, while the other did not.
As for elder slots... That's for the elders above to decide.
Quote from: Chénier on October 29, 2012, 11:18:11 PM
So what do I do if I know I'll be unable to play for a month or so, but cannot say for sure if I'll be back in three weeks or in nine?
You do a cold storage pause, and accept the consequences of being out of the game for an entire month.
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And is this explicitly stated on the pause page?
This, I'm not sure. I will check, and if it's not, I will make it very clear.
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Because my understanding is that one of the options auto-unpaused on its own, while the other did not.
Yes. The Vacation Pause auto-unpauses at a specified time.
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As for elder slots... That's for the elders above to decide.
No, actually, it's not—partly because this includes the top elders in it. If you're the #1 or #2 (with no founder), then what happens if you say you'll be gone for a week, but then don't reappear for another 6 months? Or ever?
What's the max duration for vacation pause?
I prefer the old pause system...
Quote from: Chénier on October 30, 2012, 12:27:55 AM
I prefer the old pause system...
the old pause system is similar to the vacation pause.
Quote from: egamma on October 30, 2012, 12:31:19 AM
the old pause system is similar to the vacation pause.
Can I unpause early? If so, what's the maximum pause time?
Quote from: egamma on October 30, 2012, 12:31:19 AM
the old pause system is similar to the vacation pause.
The old pause system was an awful mess. It was not consistent in what was lost between a regular pause and an auto-pause, and not in any way that followed logic (they just used separate code, even though it was supposedly doing the exact same thing).
Furthermore, because the old pause system was trying to cover two very different (but both very common) situations with a single mechanic, it caused problems in both cases.
Quote from: Chénier on October 30, 2012, 01:04:18 AM
Can I unpause early?
Yes. (Though there may still be a bit of cleanup that I haven't yet done regarding that. Should only be cosmetic, though.)
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If so, what's the maximum pause time?
(For vacation pause, I presume)
Should be 3 weeks. We went back and forth on the right length of time for a good long while. Remember, though, that vacation pause also keeps things like your estate and army sponsorship, so it can cause a big problem if you're going to be gone for a significant length of time.
In the end, we felt that 3 weeks should be adequate for the vacation pause, and if you are going to be gone from the game longer than that, you really need to use the cold storage pause, and accept the consequences.
Quote from: Anaris on October 30, 2012, 01:43:50 AM
Yes. (Though there may still be a bit of cleanup that I haven't yet done regarding that. Should only be cosmetic, though.)
(For vacation pause, I presume)
Should be 3 weeks. We went back and forth on the right length of time for a good long while. Remember, though, that vacation pause also keeps things like your estate and army sponsorship, so it can cause a big problem if you're going to be gone for a significant length of time.
In the end, we felt that 3 weeks should be adequate for the vacation pause, and if you are going to be gone from the game longer than that, you really need to use the cold storage pause, and accept the consequences.
What does auto-pause do?
Quote from: Chénier on October 30, 2012, 01:58:59 AM
What does auto-pause do?
I believe I already said: it does a cold storage pause.
I don't see how the old system is superior to the new, in any way.
If you need to pause for a month, set up a vacation pause for 3 weeks, and you'll have a zombie for two weeks after that until you either log in or cold storage kicks in.
Moderator Note: I renamed this thread...
I really don't see the point in removing guild ranks.
If you are the top elder... you won't be replaced anyways. Guilds don't replace missing members. They only do so when there are no elders left, and even then they don't give #1 spot. If paused characters count against the limits and prevent this from taking place... then just change that, instead of changing how pausing works.
Dwilight is big. Makes no sense to force players that have joined guilds from a bit all over to have to travel it all again if they need to leave for 4 weeks.
Also, some religions already work without their founded. Verdis Elementum, for example. Now, if the elder of Fire uses cold storage, it's gonna mean we'll never again be able to put someone in the top 4 elder ranks or so. Just because the guy paused. If I hadn't had the rank just below, it could have easily meant that instantly the top 8 elder ranks or so would have become permanently inaccessible. And whenever the guy would have come back, there'd have been no way to give him back his rank. Nor give it to anyone else.
The feature makes no sense and screws over religions and guilds more than anything.
I already scrapped a guild and a religion because of this feature.
eh.... religions can reclaim lost ranks.
the membership thing... they could consider pausing people getting bounced back to an aspirant. might not make sense... but would work.
Quote from: Chénier on October 30, 2012, 12:03:51 PM
if the elder of Fire uses cold storage, it's gonna mean we'll never again be able to put someone in the top 4 elder ranks or so.
Um...wrong. The top elder in a religion or guild can use the "reclaim ranks" button to move themselves up to the #2 rank.
Developers think about these things too, you know?
Quote from: Chénier on October 30, 2012, 12:03:51 PM
If you are the top elder... you won't be replaced anyways. Guilds don't replace missing members. They only do so when there are no elders left, and even then they don't give #1 spot. If paused characters count against the limits and prevent this from taking place... then just change that, instead of changing how pausing works.
As egamma says, your entire argument in this post is invalid, because guild elders can easily reclaim empty ranks above them.
Quote from: Anaris on October 30, 2012, 03:12:02 PM
As egamma says, your entire argument in this post is invalid, because guild elders can easily reclaim empty ranks above them.
The guy with the top elder position of Verdis Elementum has constantly re-affirmed to have never found any such option. I've stated as much before.
Quote from: Chénier on October 30, 2012, 08:34:38 PM
The guy with the top elder position of Verdis Elementum has constantly re-affirmed to have never found any such option. I've stated as much before.
Several others have confirmed finding it.
What's "the guy"'s name?
Quote from: Chénier on October 30, 2012, 08:34:38 PM
The guy with the top elder position of Verdis Elementum has constantly re-affirmed to have never found any such option. I've stated as much before.
Aha!
This must have been relatively recently, because there was a bug in some new code that was blocking it. I've committed a fix, and VE should be able to reclaim its top elder ranks again.
Quote from: Anaris on October 30, 2012, 08:53:05 PM
Aha!
This must have been relatively recently, because there was a bug in some new code that was blocking it. I've committed a fix, and VE should be able to reclaim its top elder ranks again.
No, it's been like that for years. I'll prod him to check
again, though...
Quote from: Chénier on October 30, 2012, 11:39:56 PM
No, it's been like that for years. I'll prod him to check again, though...
Well, given that I have had personal confirmation and thanks from others who have found the feature before this change, and given that the feature itself is not much more than a year old, I hope you'll permit me to be skeptical about your claim.
However, once revision 6639 goes live, I hope to hear similar thanks from the head of Verdis Elementum, because I assure you, the feature
is there, and
does work.
Quote from: Anaris on October 31, 2012, 12:09:27 AM
Well, given that I have had personal confirmation and thanks from others who have found the feature before this change, and given that the feature itself is not much more than a year old, I hope you'll permit me to be skeptical about your claim.
However, once revision 6639 goes live, I hope to hear similar thanks from the head of Verdis Elementum, because I assure you, the feature is there, and does work.
It might not have been years since this feature has been implemented, but it's been years since we had an elder occupying one of the top two ranks.
And when this change was implemented, whenever that was, I told him to use it. He said he couldn't.
I asked where he was supposed to find it, never got an answer. Maybe he just didn't look in the right spot.
Or maybe this feature only triggers when the head of a religion quit AFTER the feature was implemented?
Quote from: Chénier on October 31, 2012, 01:19:00 AM
It might not have been years since this feature has been implemented, but it's been years since we had an elder occupying one of the top two ranks.
And when this change was implemented, whenever that was, I told him to use it. He said he couldn't.
I asked where he was supposed to find it, never got an answer. Maybe he just didn't look in the right spot.
Or maybe this feature only triggers when the head of a religion quit AFTER the feature was implemented?
No, it only tests for whether there are people in the ranks above you at the time you look for it. It's on the Manage Guild Ranks screen, at the bottom.
Necromancy! Does cold storage remove you from guilds, secret societies, and religions or just make you an aspirant?
Quote from: Penchant on January 29, 2013, 12:36:33 AM
Necromancy! Does cold storage remove you from guilds, secret societies, and religions or just make you an aspirant?
Removes you entirely.
Quote from: Anaris on January 29, 2013, 01:37:55 AM
Removes you entirely.
I doubt you will agree with it but could a two step cold storage ever be considered? What I mean by that is if you paused your character in cold storage, for the first maybe six months you get guilds and that stuff still but at an aspirant level and maybe some other things, then after six months it removes you from those as it is considered a long term cold storage at that point. It's a pain having to run around to get in every guild again, join your old religion, and having to find contacts to your old secret societies just because you wanted to play a different character for a few months or was busy in RL for a while. I'd appreciate more than just a "it's never going to happen and that's final" or anything similar to it without any explanation.
Quote from: Penchant on January 29, 2013, 04:11:26 AM
I doubt you will agree with it but could a two step cold storage ever be considered? What I mean by that is if you paused your character in cold storage, for the first maybe six months you get guilds and that stuff still but at an aspirant level and maybe some other things, then after six months it removes you from those as it is considered a long term cold storage at that point. It's a pain having to run around to get in every guild again, join your old religion, and having to find contacts to your old secret societies just because you wanted to play a different character for a few months or was busy in RL for a while. I'd appreciate more than just a "it's never going to happen and that's final" or anything similar to it without any explanation.
Unlikely. The coding effort required outweighs the likely benefits. I don't have actual statistics, but my strong impression is that less than 25% of characters who go into cold storage ever come out again.
Quote from: Anaris on January 29, 2013, 04:31:31 AM
Unlikely. The coding effort required outweighs the likely benefits. I don't have actual statistics, but my strong impression is that less than 25% of characters who go into cold storage ever come out again.
Whats the difficulty in coding it? Or is it just a lot of code to do it? And that may be true but I also think that can in part be because you start with nothing, are older, your old positions have been filled and you are not in any of the things you used to be in. (Things being guilds, religions, etc.) While that is not going to fix all of those things, it helps with one and I think would up that rate. I'd say having it be low priority due to the coding effort vs benefit that I can't convince you of and am not sure myself, but that is pointless as the list always grows of what needs to be done so unless it eventually gets a higher priority it will never be done.
Last question for now, when advys pause, do they lose their recommendations?
Quote from: Penchant on January 29, 2013, 07:55:33 AM
Last question for now, when advys pause, do they lose their recommendations?
I do not believe so.