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BattleMaster => Helpline => Topic started by: Jhaelen Irsei on April 08, 2011, 07:10:51 PM

Title: Pick up volounteers
Post by: Jhaelen Irsei on April 08, 2011, 07:10:51 PM
This Hero skills is somehow related to the quality of the troop you're leading.

My hero char has always picked them while leading infantry or archers, now with a SF unit I got the option but never found any even if I spent 6 hours looking for them.

Any clue?
Title: Re: Pick up volounteers
Post by: songqu88@gmail.com on April 08, 2011, 07:15:44 PM
Maybe, but there might also be a hidden value in each region. Sometimes the option occurs in one region but not another. Sometimes it appears in a region where it formerly did not after a turn or so. The amount also varies among regions.

There might be this hidden "peasant availability" value per region, similar to the monster/undead values that are specific for each region.
Title: Re: Pick up volounteers
Post by: Anaris on April 08, 2011, 08:16:45 PM
One of my heroes was regularly able to find volunteers for her very-high-quality SF unit.

Until she wasn't, for a while.

And then she was again.
Title: Re: Pick up volounteers
Post by: songqu88@gmail.com on April 08, 2011, 08:17:40 PM
Delvin......... >:(

But I guess you can't tell us anything about it anyway.
Title: Re: Pick up volounteers
Post by: Anaris on April 08, 2011, 08:40:56 PM
I can tell you all about my observations as a player.

And...well, I pretty much already have  ;D  I don't use the option much.  I don't usually even remember to look.
Title: Re: Pick up volounteers
Post by: Alpha on April 08, 2011, 08:50:10 PM
I don't know how it works. With Alpha, I've recruited 25 elite infantry on a single campaign march. Likewise, I've, at times, been unable to recruit a single peasant rabble for takeover unit. Overall I've bolstered many units with the volunteers option.

I believe I've recruited volunteer SF, but I can't say with any certainty. I don't really have much experience with SF.
Title: Re: Pick up volounteers
Post by: Foundation on April 08, 2011, 08:52:46 PM
My favourite character, Daneel, became a hero, and almost every time he called for volunteers for his elite SF unit he was able to get 1 or 2, though I've only used the option a few times.
Title: Re: Pick up volounteers
Post by: Jhaelen Irsei on April 08, 2011, 09:10:37 PM
thank you for the answers everybody!

it seems another non-deterministic feature of BM and it's perfectly fine like this (once I get used I really love this unpredictability :D)
Title: Re: Pick up volounteers
Post by: Zakilevo on April 08, 2011, 09:17:13 PM
So if you pick up volunteers, you get the same unit you are leading?
Title: Re: Pick up volounteers
Post by: songqu88@gmail.com on April 08, 2011, 09:41:45 PM
Training and cohesion drop. The equipment appears to be static.
Title: Re: Pick up volounteers
Post by: fodder on April 08, 2011, 09:43:17 PM
basically nothing changes, aside from training/cohesion which gets lowered.... and number of men, which goes up.
Title: Re: Pick up volounteers
Post by: songqu88@gmail.com on April 08, 2011, 09:46:50 PM
Hm, actually about that, a curious thing is that the morale might change according to the region. Of course, like any other form of recruitment, it's factored into the morale of the entire unit.

It would make sense, but I have never picked up enough volunteers to see any notable differences, so I could be wrong about this. However, it seems that the normal recruitment shows troops with starting morale linked to their home regions. It would make sense if the volunteers also came with the morale of their region.
Title: Re: Pick up volounteers
Post by: Alpha on April 08, 2011, 10:31:01 PM
Quote from: Artemesia on April 08, 2011, 09:46:50 PM
Hm, actually about that, a curious thing is that the morale might change according to the region. Of course, like any other form of recruitment, it's factored into the morale of the entire unit.

It would make sense, but I have never picked up enough volunteers to see any notable differences, so I could be wrong about this. However, it seems that the normal recruitment shows troops with starting morale linked to their home regions. It would make sense if the volunteers also came with the morale of their region.

I think volunteer morale comes from the region that they come from, but I don't know that to be a fact.
Title: Re: Pick up volounteers
Post by: Velax on April 10, 2011, 07:18:11 AM
Could it be linked to where the recruitment centre for your unit is? Maybe in that region, and the regions surrounding it, you're more likely to find volunteers for your unit?
Title: Re: Pick up volounteers
Post by: Revan on April 13, 2011, 11:16:35 AM
Quote from: Artemesia on April 08, 2011, 09:41:45 PM
Training and cohesion drop. The equipment appears to be static.

This. I've never kept an eye on morale, but the equipment is always identical. Not sure how long any of you lot have the option to search for volunteers, but I tend to find I have a hero ability for three turns before it disappears again. The problem, as Anaris flags up, is remembering to look for it. I've found that regularly going out of my way to check the actions page is the best policy if you want to maximise the perks of playing a hero.
Title: Re: Pick up volounteers
Post by: Indirik on April 13, 2011, 02:20:00 PM
I rarely remember to look for the pickup volunteers, so I rarely ever use it. As for telling tales, I usually only remember to do it *after* I've appointed the new lord already, and then can't use Tell Tales for the rest of the day. :(
Title: Re: Pick up volounteers
Post by: Jhaelen Irsei on April 13, 2011, 06:27:38 PM
Even if sometime I regret to have chosen the hero path I've to say that both skills can have dramatic effects sometimes. Telling tales can raise morale more than several bureau work and pick up new soldiers without paying their recruitment is  really a big plus and can do the difference in certain situation

So, as a generic advice, if you're hero first thing to do is check the Action panel at every turn change :)
Title: Re: Pick up volounteers
Post by: songqu88@gmail.com on April 13, 2011, 06:49:34 PM
Hero Tales can have pretty good loyalty effects as well. They do have that nifty volunteer thing that can net you high quality troops occasionally for free. As it goes though, these are somewhat unpredictable and unreliable skills, but for that, high risk high reward. Heroes can move family homes, which might come in handy I guess if you're particularly rich, as you can set it up in any region I believe. They can escape from prison every turn as well. The only downsides I see are the mortality and subclass lock, and those aren't too bad if one is truly dedicated to the path of the hero.
Title: Re: Pick up volounteers
Post by: Peri on April 13, 2011, 10:49:21 PM
Quote from: Artemesia on April 13, 2011, 06:49:34 PM
The only downsides I see are the mortality and subclass lock, and those aren't too bad if one is truly dedicated to the path of the hero.

No civil and police work also. That is a serious lack.
Title: Re: Pick up volounteers
Post by: songqu88@gmail.com on April 13, 2011, 11:07:02 PM
Not really, since your own inability to do police work should not affect the realm, and if it does, then that's a pathetic realm, or one that is 100% composed of heroes and/or priests and/or traders and/or cavaliers. Civil work is not often as good as hero tales, and even so, nothing stops a hero from taking the Courtier main class.
Title: Re: Pick up volounteers
Post by: Jhaelen Irsei on April 13, 2011, 11:58:57 PM
Quote from: Artemesia on April 13, 2011, 11:07:02 PM
Not really, since your own inability to do police work should not affect the realm, and if it does, then that's a pathetic realm, or one that is 100% composed of heroes and/or priests and/or traders and/or cavaliers. Civil work is not often as good as hero tales, and even so, nothing stops a hero from taking the Courtier main class.

Indeed, I often switch my hero to courtier when there is no war and do some good maintenance. The Hero class is well designed after alk, sure sometimes you feel you're loosing something because you can't change subclass but also be a hero could provide good RP.

I'd add something to the Priest/Hero, the martyr can be good for RP but maybe a little extra skill/feature for this combo cold be even more fun.
Title: Re: Pick up volounteers
Post by: Peri on April 14, 2011, 02:46:01 PM
Quote from: Artemesia on April 13, 2011, 11:07:02 PM
Not really, since your own inability to do police work should not affect the realm, and if it does, then that's a pathetic realm, or one that is 100% composed of heroes and/or priests and/or traders and/or cavaliers. Civil work is not often as good as hero tales, and even so, nothing stops a hero from taking the Courtier main class.

Give a region in a bad shape to a hero, and he will just sit around doing nothing maybe even with a large unit. Give it to another classed noble, and he can have a huge effect on the region doing police work as the lord. Going courtier wouldn't solve much as the bonus you receive being the lord is not comparable with the likely low bureaucracy skill you have, and plus you likely have to drop down men to do it, without mentioning that in difficult regions police work is much more effective than surveying administration.

It is clearly not a tragedy, but still a lack I noticed quite often.
Title: Re: Pick up volounteers
Post by: songqu88@gmail.com on April 14, 2011, 02:55:16 PM
Meh, don't give a region to a hero then. And no, I don't think it breaks IR.

Example:

Hero: I want to be lord of Town!
Ruler: No, you're a hero, you're useless in region maintenance.
Hero: You're discriminating against me for being a hero!
Ruler: Your point?
Hero (OOC): What, you want me to change my class? That's IR violation!
Ruler (OOC): I don't give a **** what class you choose. I'm not telling you to change your class, but you also aren't entitled to having lordships. My rule is no hero will get lordship. You are guaranteed the right to be a hero, not lordships. Don't like it? Then leave.
Title: Re: Pick up volounteers
Post by: Jhaelen Irsei on April 14, 2011, 03:20:50 PM
I've a hero char and he was count and now duke, no problem at all

If you're a lord you can do much already to reshape your region: hold court, put some militia, switch to courtier or priest. Yes, it could be less effective, but your lord hero is not alone, he should have dame and knights that can do maintenance of their region, other realm mates, etc...I don't see a so big loss
Title: Re: Pick up volounteers
Post by: Forbes Family on April 14, 2011, 03:37:30 PM
I don't see why any ruler would ever not give a hero a lordship. I play a hero who is also a region lord. If I ever have a problem with the stats I just go back and hold court. Region stats are always in the mid to upper 90%'s. All you have to do is recruit enough knights so that the estates efficiency is over 100%.
Title: Re: Pick up volounteers
Post by: songqu88@gmail.com on April 14, 2011, 11:55:28 PM
I'm not saying that a ruler shouldn't. But if it really gets to be as bad as Peri has implied, then just don't give it to a hero.
Title: Re: Pick up volounteers
Post by: fodder on April 15, 2011, 09:10:15 AM
if it gets that bad, then whoever you give it to doesn't matter. the hero can even be the sacrifice for the peasants to boot out! XD
Title: Re: Pick up volounteers
Post by: Peri on April 15, 2011, 11:12:46 AM
well I said "a region in a bad shape", and with that I mean all those region freshly taken and looted like hell, where lords can't hold court at all but can just sit there and help as they can, waiting for the peasants to cool down. That's exactly when a hero lord twiddle his thumbs. As I said, it's not a tragedy, but sometimes it can still lead to problems.
Title: Re: Pick up volounteers
Post by: Anaris on April 15, 2011, 02:29:39 PM
Quote from: Peri on April 15, 2011, 11:12:46 AM
well I said "a region in a bad shape", and with that I mean all those region freshly taken and looted like hell, where lords can't hold court at all but can just sit there and help as they can, waiting for the peasants to cool down. That's exactly when a hero lord twiddle his thumbs. As I said, it's not a tragedy, but sometimes it can still lead to problems.

That's exactly the kind of situation where it doesn't matter much who you appoint as lord, because what you need to do is sit half your army in that region doing (normal!) police and civil work, and your bureaucrats doing survey administration, until it recovers enough loyalty to hold court.
Title: Re: Pick up volounteers
Post by: Indirik on April 15, 2011, 02:35:02 PM
I dislike it when people make IC decisions based on a character's class. :(
Title: Re: Pick up volounteers
Post by: Peri on April 15, 2011, 02:47:17 PM
Yes tim but sometimes armies are needed elsewhere and having the lord with 50 men doing 12 hours of police work can really help to delay the revolts at least until the armies can get back.

As I said it does not make a huge difference and indeed never I checked the class of a Lord before appointing him, but I believe the inability to perform civil/police work still affects a bit the hero. that's all.
Title: Re: Pick up volounteers
Post by: MaleMaldives on October 20, 2011, 07:17:50 AM
What is an estimate for the quality of troops for picking up volunteers? Normally when I lead infantry or archers I never think it is worth it. I just started leading cavalry though, and you generally lead less troops. So I am curious if picking up free cavalry units would be worth it at all.
Title: Re: Pick up volounteers
Post by: Chenier on October 20, 2011, 07:27:05 AM
Quote from: Anaris on April 08, 2011, 08:16:45 PM
One of my heroes was regularly able to find volunteers for her very-high-quality SF unit.

Until she wasn't, for a while.

And then she was again.

The perks of being a dev? ;)
Title: Re: Pick up volounteers
Post by: fodder on October 20, 2011, 08:45:56 AM
Quote from: MaleMaldives on October 20, 2011, 07:17:50 AM
What is an estimate for the quality of troops for picking up volunteers? Normally when I lead infantry or archers I never think it is worth it. I just started leading cavalry though, and you generally lead less troops. So I am curious if picking up free cavalry units would be worth it at all.

quality? eh... the ones you pick up are exactly the same as the ones you have in terms of equipment... the training/cohesion will take a blow though i think.
Title: Re: Pick up volounteers
Post by: Peri on October 20, 2011, 11:08:20 AM
Quote from: fodder on October 20, 2011, 08:45:56 AM
quality? eh... the ones you pick up are exactly the same as the ones you have in terms of equipment... the training/cohesion will take a blow though i think.

yes that's it. The drop of coherence/training is proportional to the ratio between former number of man / volunteers, I would guess.
Title: Re: Pick up volounteers
Post by: MaleMaldives on October 20, 2011, 03:14:32 PM
Quote from: fodder on October 20, 2011, 08:45:56 AM
quality? eh... the ones you pick up are exactly the same as the ones you have in terms of equipment... the training/cohesion will take a blow though i think.

O wow thats amazing thanks. Picking up volunteers is actually good then.
Title: Re: Pick up volounteers
Post by: Gustav Kuriga on October 20, 2011, 05:06:09 PM
Especially when you don't have the cash to recruit a new unit.