At the moment, my least favourite island is FEI. I just find it really quite boring at the moment, I've had nothing to do on Malos for quite some time apart from travelling around and maintaining temples. But part of that might be down to the fact that Kindara seems to follow a policy of OOC excluding people they don't like.
QuoteI've had nothing to do on Malos for quite some time apart from travelling around and maintaining temples.
It is very hard to get involved as a priest because you are (by definition) a lot more useless than your countrymen. I am having the same problem in Arcaea. As a priest my character has limited use, plus he's related to the guy the whole realm is at war with so the assumption is that he's not loyal anyway. And while frustrating, it's also perfectly normal. If he were riding around with a 1200 CS unit willing to charge into battle, everybody would probably be more willing to overlook his family ties. If my character weren't the founder of a religion I probably would un-priest him.
Medieval nobles were first and foremost military men. Take that away and the number of things with which you can be involved is smaller unless you happen to be involved in local politics or your church has a big political base.
QuoteBut part of that might be down to the fact that Kindara seems to follow a policy of OOC excluding people they don't like.
If Malos did something
IC aside from scream about how unfair his life is and about how mean the world is while saying how he plans to bring down the most influential nobles in Kindara that arent currently tied to his church he'd likely be included in things again. When all you do is shout at people IC you shouldn't be surprised when other characters don't particularly care to deal with you. Even if you don't like other characters, not acting like an entitled jerk every time you speak tends to get you farther.
The only OOC grudge I hold against you is your apparent inability to separate OOC and IC while the rest of us are happy to do so. Edmund just thinks Malos is an idiot and has yet to be proven wrong in game, so he ignores him. Considering the fact that half the realm council belongs to the Church of Humanity, you claim of OOC prejudice kind of falls flat.
Quote from: Ravier on May 16, 2013, 01:19:45 PM
But part of that might be down to the fact that Kindara seems to follow a policy of OOC excluding people they don't like.
Nothing OOC about it. Malos' outbursts against high ranking nobles didn't much help his cause. You picked a hard road with Malos, being a foreign priest in the heart of, potentially, the biggest and most active religion on the island.
Quote from: Ender on May 16, 2013, 03:50:42 PM
Considering the fact that half the realm council belongs to the Church of Humanity, ...
Wow CoH really does get around, I didn't know it was on FEI as well as EC and BT. ???
Quote from: Ravier on May 16, 2013, 01:19:45 PM
Kindara seems to follow a policy of OOC excluding people they don't like.
That was my experience there as well; hence why my character their emigrated. Seemed to have a pretty strong OOC clique; like Eston before the Treaty of Hawthorne.
QuoteThat was my experience there as well; hence why my character their emigrated. Seemed to have a pretty strong OOC clique; like Eston before the Treaty of Hawthorne.
See, what bothers me is that it just doesn't exist. The only OOC messages I ever really write rarely talk about actual in game events. Yes, there is a pretty tight group of IC connections where behind the scenes planning takes place, but Edmund usually makes sure to filter down anything that is sure to happen or needs to be agreed upon by the realm with the Great Debate Hall, which exists for that very reason.
If your character felt they were being excluded I'd welcome suggestions on how we can improve accessibility for the realm for everyone involved.
The ruler's OOC obligation to make the game accessible does not extend to subverting in-game politics to that cause.
I mean, we took a whole duchy away from Kindara and then became friends. It's tough for me to imagine that a realm willing to overcome that would be manufacturing reasons to exclude people.
Incidentally, Quintus was 'excluded' from pretty much every council Vellos had anything to do with in Terran, and you don't hear me bitching about it. Quintus was who he was and people responded accordingly. Sometimes it served him and sometimes it hindered him. If I'd wanted more involvement in the realm strategy I could have easily made him more conciliatory. You gotta earn political capital before you can expect to have any to spend.
Quote from: Ravier on May 16, 2013, 01:19:45 PM
Blah
Going out of their way to attack and antagonise one of the most powerful Dukes in Kindara while still a new noble and then throwing a hissy fit when he didn't get a lordship he wanted, attacking another Duke and the Ruler in the process, seem like perfectly good reasons to IC exclude someone from power. There doesn't have to be anything OOC about it. Your character acted like a spoiled brat and is now reaping the consequences.
It reminds me of the time when a new Arcaean noble, upon being told that rape and pillage was expressly outlawed and one of the worst crimes in the realm,
immediately went to a neighbouring peaceful realm and had his troops rape and murder. Upon being punished, he demanded the Ruler apologise to him and then was seemingly shocked when he was no longer welcome in the realm.
Quote from: Vellos on May 16, 2013, 05:07:59 PM
That was my experience there as well; hence why my character their emigrated. Seemed to have a pretty strong OOC clique; like Eston before the Treaty of Hawthorne.
Out of curiosity, what gave you this impression? As I recall, Onamont got the first Lordship that came available despite being fairly new to the realm because of the services he rendered as an adventurer.
There isn't and hasn't been an OOC group in Kindara. I was there from day one. Alpha had a part in probably every decision that was made in the almost 3 years of Kindara's existence, so if such a group was present I would know. The ruling council has typically been closely knit, but changes when council members are replaced.
Hah, just realised I did what I told other people not to do. Defend my realm from attacks by bitter people. Very naughty Mod.
Quote from: Velax on May 16, 2013, 06:39:49 PM
Going out of their way to attack and antagonise one of the most powerful Dukes in Kindara while still a new noble and then throwing a hissy fit when he didn't get a lordship he wanted, attacking another Duke and the Ruler in the process, seem like perfectly good reasons to IC exclude someone from power. There doesn't have to be anything OOC about it. Your character acted like a spoiled brat and is now reaping the consequences.
It reminds me of the time when a new Arcaean noble, upon being told that rape and pillage was expressly outlawed and one of the worst crimes in the realm, immediately went to a neighbouring peaceful realm and had his troops rape and murder. Upon being punished, he demanded the Ruler apologise to him and then was seemingly shocked when he was no longer welcome in the realm.
You and Ender have been nothing but dicks to myself as the player, with you once telling me practically to STFU when I objected OOCly to being told that Priests were a useless class as well as in another thread having the nerve to call me "abnormal". The fact that you reply with "blah" to my quote is frankly !@#$ing immature as well, which proves my point. You two are following an OOC vendetta for no good reason other than "because we can".
The only problem with your theory, Ravier, is that I just don't care enough about you to have an OOC vendetta. You really aren't that relevant in Kindara.
Quote from: Velax on May 16, 2013, 07:08:55 PM
The only problem with your theory, Ravier, is that I just don't care enough about you to have an OOC vendetta. You really aren't that relevant in Kindara.
So you don't deny that you and Ender have been !@#$%^&s to me for no good reason?
Quote from: Velax on May 16, 2013, 06:39:49 PM
Going out of their way to attack and antagonise one of the most powerful Dukes in Kindara while still a new noble and then throwing a hissy fit when he didn't get a lordship he wanted, attacking another Duke and the Ruler in the process, seem like perfectly good reasons to IC exclude someone from power. There doesn't have to be anything OOC about it. Your character acted like a spoiled brat and is now reaping the consequences.
It reminds me of the time when a new Arcaean noble, upon being told that rape and pillage was expressly outlawed and one of the worst crimes in the realm, immediately went to a neighbouring peaceful realm and had his troops rape and murder. Upon being punished, he demanded the Ruler apologise to him and then was seemingly shocked when he was no longer welcome in the realm.
And he is still in your realm? I am surprised by Kindaran generosity.
Quote from: Zaki on May 16, 2013, 07:16:02 PM
And he is still in your realm? I am surprised by Kindaran generosity.
So am I, strangely enough. Though after this I suspect he'll be gone on some spurious charge.
Quote from: Zaki on May 16, 2013, 07:16:02 PM
And he is still in your realm? I am surprised by Kindaran generosity.
That's because insulting a bunch of people and just being a jerk isnt actually a crime and no OOC clan exists to persecute Malos like he claims. So, he's been excluded from the Great Debate Hall and generally shunned IC, because contrary to Ravier's belief, everyone doesn't love an antagonistic noble who clearly has no intentions of getting along with anyone, period. If anything, Ravier is punishing himself by staying if he hates Kindara so much, or just enjoys being a troll, which seems pretty clear by this point.
I should have known better than to feed him in the first place, though, so back I'll leave it be like Arrakis requested.
Edit: Fixed, Ravier's name.
Quote from: Ender on May 16, 2013, 07:28:50 PM
...because contrary to Raziel's belief...
...
If anything, Raziel is...
Ravier, not Raziel. Raziel was the name of a few of Stabbity's characters.
If you asked Henry II what priests were good for, 'useless class' would probably be one of the kinder things he could say. BM has it even worse because unlike medieval priests, BM priests are probably chewing up an estate with income that is going to the priesthood rather than military service to the crown.
Obviously priests aren't useless in the game, but to a wartime King ... at least you can throw a fish with an umbrella at Velax on the battlefield. You can't throw a priest.
Quote from: LGMAlpha on May 16, 2013, 06:49:22 PM
Out of curiosity, what gave you this impression? As I recall, Onamont got the first Lordship that came available despite being fairly new to the realm because of the services he rendered as an adventurer.
There isn't and hasn't been an OOC group in Kindara. I was there from day one. Alpha had a part in probably every decision that was made in the almost 3 years of Kindara's existence, so if such a group was present I would know. The ruling council has typically been closely knit, but changes when council members are replaced.
You were the only player who showed any interest in reaching out to me; and I enjoyed Onamont's interactions with your character.
Mostly it was the extraordinarily aura of bitterness that surrounds Velax everywhere he goes: and the whole thing where he told me he would OOC exclude me from any realm he was in; he actually did that on this forum, as it were.
Quote from: Scarlett on May 16, 2013, 06:03:54 PM
Incidentally, Quintus was 'excluded' from pretty much every council Vellos had anything to do with in Terran, and you don't hear me bitching about it. Quintus was who he was and people responded accordingly. Sometimes it served him and sometimes it hindered him. If I'd wanted more involvement in the realm strategy I could have easily made him more conciliatory. You gotta earn political capital before you can expect to have any to spend.
lol, I think you overestimate how much council Hireshmont took with other people. By the latter days there he was pretty much acting alone and just trusting peoples' paranoia of each other to get him what he wanted. I can really only think of one pre-occupation of Chateau Saffalore incident where Hireshmont excluded Quintus.
Quote from: Ender on May 16, 2013, 07:28:50 PM
That's because insulting a bunch of people and just being a jerk isnt actually a crime and no OOC clan exists to persecute Malos like he claims. So, he's been excluded from the Great Debate Hall and generally shunned IC, because contrary to Ravier's belief, everyone doesn't love an antagonistic noble who clearly has no intentions of getting along with anyone, period. If anything, Ravier is punishing himself by staying if he hates Kindara so much, or just enjoys being a troll, which seems pretty clear by this point.
I should have known better than to feed him in the first place, though, so back I'll leave it be like Arrakis requested.
Edit: Fixed, Ravier's name.
Maybe if you actually bothered to extend a hand, hell even a finger, to him, he'd co-operate. And on the charge of being antagonistic, since when in the past two-three months has he done that? Not one instance. He has been doing exactly what I said - going around, preaching and doing maintenance on temples because that's all he can do right now. I'd gladly go to war if it wouldn't plunge the religion into chaos (as in the elder/priest threshold dropping below 66%). When we had the issue regarding the Margrave of Azros attempting to close down the temple there, did he go berzerk and start preaching hellfire and brimstone? No. He went to Azros to discuss the issue and let it lie in the end, in fact the faith was commended for that fact by Galiard if I do recall.
The character, nor myself for that matter, are not completely unreasonable. Malos, like Ravier and Ventus, is a zealot and will chase something down if he believes in it.
If you think I am a troll, then instead of pointing the finger, take it to the Magistrates or Titans. Because I will not tolerate my name as a player being slandered without cause.
QuoteYou were the only player who showed any interest in reaching out to me; and I enjoyed Onamont's interactions with your character.
Mostly it was the extraordinarily aura of bitterness that surrounds Velax everywhere he goes: and the whole thing where he told me he would OOC exclude me from any realm he was in; he actually did that on this forum, as it were.
This is true as well. There are several nobles in Kindara who Malos does respect like the now-deceased Alpha And Piotrek because they engaged and talked on matters of faith and harmony. And I do remember that comment by Velax because it struck me as being quite cruel at the time, I can't remember what caused it though.
Quote from: Ender on May 16, 2013, 07:28:50 PM
That's because insulting a bunch of people and just being a jerk isnt actually a crime and no OOC clan exists to persecute Malos like he claims. So, he's been excluded from the Great Debate Hall and generally shunned IC, because contrary to Ravier's belief, everyone doesn't love an antagonistic noble who clearly has no intentions of getting along with anyone, period. If anything, Ravier is punishing himself by staying if he hates Kindara so much, or just enjoys being a troll, which seems pretty clear by this point.
I should have known better than to feed him in the first place, though, so back I'll leave it be like Arrakis requested.
Edit: Fixed, Ravier's name.
If he wants to do that kind of things, come to Thalmarkin. While still looked down upon, you'll at least have company that will appreciate your character's attitude.
Quote from: Scarlett on May 16, 2013, 07:53:41 PM
If you asked Henry II what priests were good for, 'useless class' would probably be one of the kinder things he could say. BM has it even worse because unlike medieval priests, BM priests are probably chewing up an estate with income that is going to the priesthood rather than military service to the crown.
Obviously priests aren't useless in the game, but to a wartime King ... at least you can throw a fish with an umbrella at Velax on the battlefield. You can't throw a priest.
I never said priests were useless. More exaggerating by a bitter, bitter man. I don't remember the incident he's talking about, but most likely I said priests shouldn't be in an Army as there's very little they can do there. But they are not useless. Velax has a number of times had priests travel to regions and use their abilities to raise Loyalty.
Quotelol, I think you overestimate how much council Hireshmont took with other people. B
You're quite possibly correct, because one of the side effects of people not telling you things is that you don't know why something is or isn't happening.
But Quintus asked for a certain amount of that with how he was, and he reaped plenty of benefits from that stance as well. So I don't complain about it - I just observe it as a natural consequence of his attitude.
Quote from: Vellos on May 16, 2013, 08:02:34 PM
Mostly it was the extraordinarily aura of bitterness that surrounds Velax everywhere he goes: and the whole thing where he told me he would OOC exclude me from any realm he was in; he actually did that on this forum, as it were.
Ah, yes, that was after you admitted to exploiting the in-game vulgarity function to pass sensitive messages to other realms and then had a presto-chango conversion when called on it. As for excluding you, if someone is going to deliberately send sensitive messages to other realms using an exploit, the intelligent thing to do would be to make sure they don't get any, no? As for actually carrying it out in game, I never bothered. Again, your character just wasn't that important in Kindara.
Quote from: Velax on May 16, 2013, 08:11:41 PM
Ah, yes, that was after you admitted to exploiting the in-game vulgarity function to pass sensitive messages to other realms and then had a presto-chango conversion when called on it. As for excluding you, if someone is going to deliberately send sensitive messages to other realms using an exploit, the intelligent thing to do would be to make sure they don't get any, no? As for actually carrying it out in game, I never bothered. Again, your character just wasn't that important in Kindara.
Yeah this is pretty much what I mean.
Split this into a new thread. Not really fair to bury the old one in flames and trolling.
Quote from: Ravier on May 16, 2013, 08:04:19 PM
I'd gladly go to war if it wouldn't plunge the religion into chaos (as in the elder/priest threshold dropping below 66%).
There is no such threshold.
There is a 50% threshold of priests to non-priests in elder ranks. If you fall below 50% priests in the elders, you cannot promote any more non-priests to elder status. But that's it. There is no "plunge into chaos" for it. You just can't promote non-priests.
What you may be thinking of is the no-priests thing that causes the religion to fall apart.
Quote from: Indirik on May 16, 2013, 08:43:59 PM
There is no such threshold.
There is a 50% threshold of priests to non-priests in elder ranks. If you fall below 50% priests in the elders, you cannot promote any more non-priests to elder status. But that's it. There is no "plunge into chaos" for it. You just can't promote non-priests.
What you may be thinking of is the no-priests thing that causes the religion to fall apart.
Ah yes, that's what I was thinking of. Thanks for clearing that up. So if I did convert Malos back to a Warrior at least the faith wouldn't implode.
QuoteMaybe if you actually bothered to extend a hand, hell even a finger, to him, he'd co-operate. And on the charge of being antagonistic, since when in the past two-three months has he done that? Not one instance. He has been doing exactly what I said - going around, preaching and doing maintenance on temples because that's all he can do right now. I'd gladly go to war if it wouldn't plunge the religion into chaos (as in the elder/priest threshold dropping below 66%). When we had the issue regarding the Margrave of Azros attempting to close down the temple there, did he go berzerk and start preaching hellfire and brimstone? No. He went to Azros to discuss the issue and let it lie in the end, in fact the faith was commended for that fact by Galiard if I do recall.
The character, nor myself for that matter, are not completely unreasonable. Malos, like Ravier and Ventus, is a zealot and will chase something down if he believes in it.
It is entirely true that Edmund and Malos stopped speaking after he was suspended from the Great Debate Hall and just as Edmund could have written Malos to mend things, Malos could have written Edmund to do the same. Instead, Edmund was more than happy to just ignore Malos and deal with the rest of the Church of Humanity when required. Solarus tends to be his contact there the precious few times he's needed to discuss something, like the event in Azros.
The way you choose to play Malos is fine and I'm glad he has convictions, but don't expect another character to be willing to be friends when 95% percent of his interactions with Malos have been pretty negative.
QuoteIf you think I am a troll, then instead of pointing the finger, take it to the Magistrates or Titans. Because I will not tolerate my name as a player being slandered without cause.
And if you genuinely think there is some massive OOC clan conspiracy to exclude you and only you, then do the same. My problem with Malos is purely in game and in character and can be fixed. There are few characters I've run into while playing this game that my characters cant mend fences with eventually.
I only started having a problem with you in particular when I noticed that you have a tendency of making forum posts about how an OOC clan in Kindara was deliberately out to get you while implicating myself and Velax (like in the EC thread a while back and in this thread now). I take the separation of IC/OOC pretty seriously and don't appreciate people making Kindara out to be something it's not or implying we punish any random character without just cause in game or through OOC methods.
QuoteYou were the only player who showed any interest in reaching out to me; and I enjoyed Onamont's interactions with your character.
When I remember I do try to make sure I make contact with as many nobles as possible, particularly new ones. I wish more higher placed nobles or even knights did so, just to make a showing, but it is what it is.
Malos did make a good impression on the Cathayans. The CoH banked some goodwill with Cathay prior to that as well. Galiard wasn't sold on the faith but he apparently didn't meet the 'real' Malos.
Normally this would be the point where I'd suggest you join Cathay, but I am obliged to agree with Edmund and Velax that suggesting OOC cliques is a very unpopular move. All three of us (Edmund, Velax, and myself) have definitely wanted to strangle one another ICly at various times over the years but the extent to which we talk about anything OOCly is through the very occasional OOC note, usually about some arcane inside ruler joke. I am also very sensitive to people mixing up IC and OOC because FEI would really be a lot less fun if there wasn't a baseline level of trust between the players that what happens in-game stays there and we don't go after one another out of game. I would quit in a moment if that weren't true.
Whining OOC about IC consequences is always poor form.
Quote from: Barek (jerm) on May 19, 2013, 05:40:17 PM
Whining OOC about IC consequences is always poor form.
Then crucify me if I don't meet your standards. I'll happily admit that I was wrong on this one and apologise for my words. Either way, this issue has been resolved ICly through actions on both sides. Now we can just get on with the game instead of exchanging harsh words over it all, crossing wires or the like. And I can get back to playing a character who I'm quite fond of and actually do some more roleplaying on him now.