A temple to the Church of Sartan has just been founded in Jedinchel in Thalmarkin. Expect drama to ensue :p
Death to all Sartanists.
You may have found a way to unite the north on Melhed's side. =P
Quote from: Draco Tanos on June 02, 2013, 03:31:51 AM
Death to all Sartanists.
You may have found a way to unite the north on Melhed's side. =P
I...would be surprised if most of Beluaterra has much of an opinion, honestly.
Sartanism just isn't a religion that comes up very much around here.
Yeah, Hemaism is the real bogeyman on BT. If people can't rally together against Hemaism, CoS sure isn't gonna cause much of a stir.
Hemaism has a traditionally strong realm behind it. CoS? I question if Thalmarkin would permit them if it isolated them.
Quote from: Draco Tanos on June 02, 2013, 05:11:36 AM
Hemaism has a traditionally strong realm behind it. CoS? I question if Thalmarkin would permit them if it isolated them.
Will it? I suppose you have clout in Old Grehk and Caelum, but beyond that I don't see where the Church of Humanity really has the sway to make a difference.
Quote from: Draco Tanos on June 02, 2013, 05:11:36 AM
Hemaism has a traditionally strong realm behind it. CoS? I question if Thalmarkin would permit them if it isolated them.
The only reason noone cares about them in Thal at them moment is that the priest and Lord in question is leaving us to join the new colony. I feel comfortable in letting Jaune handle the mess :p
Mwahaha, maybby i will make it state religion at AA :D
-Jaune
Quote from: jaune on June 02, 2013, 09:23:08 AM
Mwahaha, maybby i will make it state religion at AA :D
-Jaune
Do. It.
If I'm not mistaken the current ruler of Fronen (Richard Telrunya) was pretty big in the Church of Ibladesh. Well, I am not mistaken. I was there. This could be interesting, although I have always expected him to recreate CoI in Fronen rather than join CoS. Because, when you really look at CoS, it is so wrong... they worship a god of war and all they cry about is how horrible war is. At least on FEI. Pussies.
Quote from: Fleugs on June 02, 2013, 11:54:01 AM
If I'm not mistaken the current ruler of Fronen (Richard Telrunya) was pretty big in the Church of Ibladesh. Well, I am not mistaken. I was there. This could be interesting, although I have always expected him to recreate CoI in Fronen rather than join CoS. Because, when you really look at CoS, it is so wrong... they worship a god of war and all they cry about is how horrible war is. At least on FEI. Pussies.
Even richard telrunya was ruler of fronen, CoS will failed at fronen..
Support Daishi :)
Quote from: Fleugs on June 02, 2013, 11:54:01 AM
If I'm not mistaken the current ruler of Fronen (Richard Telrunya) was pretty big in the Church of Ibladesh. Well, I am not mistaken. I was there. This could be interesting, although I have always expected him to recreate CoI in Fronen rather than join CoS. Because, when you really look at CoS, it is so wrong... they worship a god of war and all they cry about is how horrible war is. At least on FEI. Pussies.
Nope. Sartan is a god of *honourable* war. They don't object to war in the slightest on the FEI (that is, after all, why they attacked Ohanr without bothering to give themselves a plausible PR excuse for it) but they do object to dishonourable practices - like rape and mass murder and assassinations.
Quote from: Antonine on June 02, 2013, 04:34:57 PM
Nope. Sartan is a god of *honourable* war. They don't object to war in the slightest on the FEI (that is, after all, why they attacked Ohanr without bothering to give themselves a plausible PR excuse for it) but they do object to dishonourable practices - like rape and mass murder and assassinations.
See, this religion just lost its touch with its dark side. You should reconcile with it and plunge into some rape and mass murder, so your God doesn't feel all honourable any more. Besides I hate that "let's not rape and mass murder" rule on FEI anyway. It's like cutting off a part of the gameplay.
That part is still there. You can still do it. You just have to face the consequences of what you do. It's a bit of a refreshing change from the other islands, where you can pretty much do anything, and no one cares. I mean, you can commit mass murder and genocide on AT/EC, and people just ignore it, so there are no consequences. At least on FEI you, supposedly, can be required to account for your actions.
I agree, it's still there, but it will get you instantly banned - so what's the point of being an outcast on the island? But I guess you're right - it does pose a challenge if you really want to do it. It's just sad a noble can be banned for killing a few peasants. But we are getting off topic here, so let me get back on: I hope the CoS on Beluaterra grows a pair and becomes a true warrior religion. In the end though I think the religion will be short lived as I can already imagine Thalmarkin destroying it.
The thing about CoS on FEI is that there just aren't enough people in it that are devoted to it enough to try and buck the system. It suffers what most BM religions suffer: It is full of people that don't care about it. They are there for political reasons, or really no reason at all. If the leaders of the religion tried to do anything remotely controversial that would hurt the political position of their members, a significant portion of those members would just refuse to participate, or outright leave to find some other, blander religion.
I don't think that a CoS on BT would escape this problem, either. (We are seeing this begin on Dwilight now with SA as well.) Melhed tried to have a religion that would take a more prominent role in running the government, didn't they? And IIRC, that religion was one of the reasons Thalmarkin went after them.
Quote from: Indirik on June 02, 2013, 05:22:33 PM
The thing about CoS on FEI is that there just aren't enough people in it that are devoted to it enough to try and buck the system. It suffers what most BM religions suffer: It is full of people that don't care about it. They are there for political reasons, or really no reason at all. If the leaders of the religion tried to do anything remotely controversial that would hurt the political position of their members, a significant portion of those members would just refuse to participate, or outright leave to find some other, blander religion.
I don't think that a CoS on BT would escape this problem, either. (We are seeing this begin on Dwilight now with SA as well.) Melhed tried to have a religion that would take a more prominent role in running the government, didn't they? And IIRC, that religion was one of the reasons Thalmarkin went after them.
I hear you. Players (yes, players) approach religion too much with the question "what benefits does this have for me?". Too few play an actually devouted character that puts his religion first, or at least does not constantly require compensation for its devotion. By which I do not wish to force everyone into playing like I
want it to be, but I do hope some people consider playing a more religious character, which seems more fitting for BM than the usual political games.
Quote from: Fleugs on June 02, 2013, 05:14:09 PM
I agree, it's still there, but it will get you instantly banned - so what's the point of being an outcast on the island? But I guess you're right - it does pose a challenge if you really want to do it. It's just sad a noble can be banned for killing a few peasants. But we are getting off topic here, so let me get back on: I hope the CoS on Beluaterra grows a pair and becomes a true warrior religion. In the end though I think the religion will be short lived as I can already imagine Thalmarkin destroying it.
If you ask me, having the no rape/murder rule is what makes FEI different, as Indirik said. It's something that is 100% character-created and enforced. There's nothing in the game that stops you from doing it, it was the
characters that made this system of rules. And I think that's pretty cool.
Quote from: Fleugs on June 02, 2013, 11:54:01 AM
If I'm not mistaken the current ruler of Fronen (Richard Telrunya) was pretty big in the Church of Ibladesh. Well, I am not mistaken. I was there. This could be interesting, although I have always expected him to recreate CoI in Fronen rather than join CoS. Because, when you really look at CoS, it is so wrong... they worship a god of war and all they cry about is how horrible war is. At least on FEI. Pussies.
Richard actually has condemned the CoS. He hates that particular church.
So... There could very well be a few realms united against the CoS.
Hm, I wouldnt at all mind a war where Jaune/AA defends CoS and Thalmarkin moves in to defend AA! Sounds like jolly fun :)
At this point, who would be dumb enough to challenge Thalmarkin?
o/ Their lands belong to AA \o
Quote from: jaune on June 02, 2013, 10:12:51 PM
o/ Their lands belong to AA \o
I thought AA's lands belong to Thal... :P
Quote from: Tandaros on June 02, 2013, 10:48:06 PM
I thought AA's lands belong to Thal... :P
Well, technically all of Thal's lands + Vatrona and Gemke once belonged to AA . And Jaune is a royal family of Thalmarkin as well. :P
So longterm, we took a bit of a risk with the casus belli we chose and the precedent we set though I doubt that it'll lead to any problems short term. :)
Quote from: Indirik on June 02, 2013, 09:05:16 PM
At this point, who would be dumb enough to challenge Thalmarkin?
Rio thought the same thing.
Quote from: Draco Tanos on June 03, 2013, 04:13:10 AM
Rio thought the same thing.
As in, "Who would be dumb enough to challenge Riombara?"
Actually, no. What happened was we had an arrogant bastard of a High Chancellor who basically said one thing to the rulers, and then something quite different to his realm, so that Riombara didn't really have any clue of the depth of !@#$ Folcard's brand of anti-diplomacy had landed them in.
Liara's been trying to undo it, but she keeps getting assassinated by infiltrators who then jump on ships and sail away.
...I'm already working on figuring out a good way to prevent that from happening, because it's clearly an unintended consequence of sea travel, though I wouldn't go so far as to call it an exploit at this point.
Quote from: Draco Tanos on June 03, 2013, 04:13:10 AM
Rio thought the same thing.
No one stood up and said "Hey Riombara, we're gonna TAKE YOU DOWN!"
Riombara said "Hey Enweil, we're gonna TAKE YOU DOWN!"" and Enweil and its allies decided to not roll over.
Huge difference.
Yea Rio is a piece of work. Anyway, back to CoS.
Melhed's religion is dead, and CoS seems like it could potentially fit the ticket for a replacement. We haven't seen any priests at all since Yeux left and the war ended; Melhed is basically pagan through and through right now. Someone is off trying to make nice with a religion, but Maya won't let anything in without it coming to her for ultimate approval.
Wonder who it'll be to become Melhed's new state religion... I can see that decision potentially making some new ties and new enemies.
Haha...hushhh tandaros. You are not supposed to tell everyone what i am trying to do. Or the other. :p Either way...it's gonna be another controversy coming. :p
Oh yayy, The Order of the Golden Feather is coming to the rescue!
Kinda tricky though being the sole priest (the other one seems to be quite inactive). Perhaps I can recruit some priests in Melhed... hrm hrm!
Maybby it is time to cut "Julmaism" out from Golden Feather and make it going on AA & Melhed...
-Jaune
Quote from: Anaris on June 03, 2013, 04:43:27 AM
As in, "Who would be dumb enough to challenge Riombara?"
Actually, no. What happened was we had an arrogant bastard of a High Chancellor who basically said one thing to the rulers, and then something quite different to his realm, so that Riombara didn't really have any clue of the depth of !@#$ Folcard's brand of anti-diplomacy had landed them in.
Guillaume warned y'all.
Quote from: Anaris on June 03, 2013, 04:43:27 AM
Liara's been trying to undo it, but she keeps getting assassinated by infiltrators who then jump on ships and sail away.
...I'm already working on figuring out a good way to prevent that from happening, because it's clearly an unintended consequence of sea travel, though I wouldn't go so far as to call it an exploit at this point.
Or maybe you get attacked by your own peers?
The cost of sea travel in hostile lands is prohibitive. Especially if it's done in a repeated manner. I don't really see what's wrong with using sea travel to infiltrate enemy lands and try to avoid capture. The consequences of this are insignificant to the new possibilities of landing troops next to a capital and starting a TO of it, at least, for which no limit is intended.
Quote from: Chénier on June 03, 2013, 01:10:06 PM
Or maybe you get attacked by your own peers?
Nope, we know who's doing it.
Quote
The cost of sea travel in hostile lands is prohibitive. Especially if it's done in a repeated manner. I don't really see what's wrong with using sea travel to infiltrate enemy lands and try to avoid capture. The consequences of this are insignificant to the new possibilities of landing troops next to a capital and starting a TO of it, at least, for which no limit is intended.
The current behaviour is unintended, and adds a power to the infiltrator class that is unbalancing.
It
will be removed.
Quote from: Anaris on June 03, 2013, 01:45:14 PM
Nope, we know who's doing it.
The current behaviour is unintended, and adds a power to the infiltrator class that is unbalancing.
It will be removed.
Why do you consider this imba?
Quote from: Skiarxon on June 03, 2013, 01:51:05 PM
Why do you consider this imba?
Infiltrator lands.
Infiltrator stabs.
Infiltrator embarks.
Who stabbed? No way to know.
Quote from: Skiarxon on June 03, 2013, 01:51:05 PM
Why do you consider this imba?
...Or, if you don't like the previous, how about this:
Guess why Priest/Infiltrator is not a permitted class combination?
And if we don't allow that, why the devil do you think we'd allow this??
Quote from: Anaris on June 03, 2013, 01:54:32 PM
Infiltrator lands.
Infiltrator stabs.
Infiltrator embarks.
Who stabbed? No way to know.
Apart from being usable in every coastal region instead of only the cities with sea routes, what is the difference with the old system?
Quote from: vonGenf on June 03, 2013, 01:57:54 PM
Apart from being usable in every coastal region instead of only the cities with sea routes, what is the difference with the old system?
Um...how about being able to
disappear from the region in the middle of the turn??
Quote from: Anaris on June 03, 2013, 02:00:04 PM
Um...how about being able to disappear from the region in the middle of the turn??
It was an honest question, I am trying to figure out the changes.
Even as a priest, when I try to embark on a boat the game tells me:
"Sea of Silence
You are currently embarking ships in Port Raviel.
You will reach the open sea in about 5 hours."
But it does not, in fact, update every hour: it is only resolved on the turn.
I never checked the scout report when that happen, does the noble disappear entirely as soon as he starts to embark? If yes, then it seems more of a bug than an unintended consequence: the games tells different characters different things. You should only disappear from scout reports once your boat has actually left shore, and in the meantime your status should be "travelling".
In the case of Liara, I think I always could check only 1 turn afterwards, in which case there was indeed enough time for the infiltrator to leave.
Quote from: vonGenf on June 03, 2013, 02:07:10 PM
It was an honest question, I am trying to figure out the changes.
Even as a priest, when I try to embark on a boat the game tells me:
"Sea of Silence
You are currently embarking ships in Port Raviel.
You will reach the open sea in about 5 hours."
But it does not, in fact, update every hour: it is only resolved on the turn.
I never checked the scout report when that happen, does the noble disappear entirely as soon as he starts to embark?
Yes. When embarking on a boat, you leave the region immediately. And that's not a bug, as such: it's pretty much structural to the way sea travel works, at present.
Quote from: Anaris on June 03, 2013, 02:22:55 PM
Yes. When embarking on a boat, you leave the region immediately. And that's not a bug, as such: it's pretty much structural to the way sea travel works, at present.
The solution seems simple then: Only resolve embarkation on turn changes, just like all other forms of non-priest/advy movement. Is there any good reason to preserve it the way it is now?
Quote from: Geronus on June 03, 2013, 04:21:36 PM
The solution seems simple then: Only resolve embarkation on turn changes, just like all other forms of non-priest/advy movement. Is there any good reason to preserve it the way it is now?
That...might be possible. I'm not sure. I'd have to dig into the sea-travel and embarkation code.
Quote from: Noldorin on June 03, 2013, 09:15:42 AM
Oh yayy, The Order of the Golden Feather is coming to the rescue!
Kinda tricky though being the sole priest (the other one seems to be quite inactive). Perhaps I can recruit some priests in Melhed... hrm hrm!
Possibly! We have zero priests though, just a bunch of crusty warriors. Defeat has soured the people's faith. :'(
worry not! There will be grand son of god at your neighbour, who is known for big parties and huge orgies and other sinfull behaviour...
Vore became true sin city while OO hosted it... now his legacy is heading to AA.
OO worships at some extent Golden Feather, but mainly just his grand father Julma Jaune... and him only now and then when he remember...
All the CoS wants is to become the state religion in Ar Agyr, Thalmarkin and Melhed and then conquer the world for the glory of the gods. Is that too much to ask? ;)
For a Church about a god of war that has a history of being bad at war... Yes.
Quote from: Stabbity on June 04, 2013, 12:14:36 AM
For a Church about a god of war that has a history of being bad at war... Yes.
Look, it's not my fault that the current crop of FEI sartanians are crap at war. A religion has to work with what it's got.
Besides, Thalmarkin and Ar Agyr are full of nobles who are already good at war - so extending the franchise here seemed a logical step to overcome historic shortcomings :p
Quote from: Antonine on June 04, 2013, 12:45:07 AM
Look, it's not my fault that the current crop of FEI sartanians are crap at war. A religion has to work with what it's got.
Besides, Thalmarkin and Ar Agyr are full of nobles who are already good at war - so extending the franchise here seemed a logical step to overcome historic shortcomings :p
I can see Melhed getting on board with CoS too. That'd be a cool influx of something fresh to touch on old roots.
Quote from: Stabbity on June 04, 2013, 12:14:36 AM
For a Church about a god of war that has a history of being bad at war... Yes.
I had the similar impression of the Bloodspeakers, that they rebelled and wanted to bring an age of glorious war; but when the war started they acted all surprised and sucked hard all over the place. If your religion is based on war, you should at least try to be not bad at it.
We've been meaning to update the golden feather for a while... make it a primitive ancestor-worship religion that is all about guidance through the lives of ancestors and fallen heroes and less (or not at all) about moral judgement. But well, there's so much stuff to do already...
Anyway, this thread is about the CoS. To be honest, I'm not really a fan due to my experiences with it on FEI and due to my being hardcore-CoI. 8) But that said, it's a well worked out religion and there is a bit of a religious gap at the moment (I mean, we didn't even have to make the destruction of the bloodspeakers a condition if we wanted to, it just died on it's own. :P) which an enthusiastic leader could exploit. So... good luck I guess. I just know I'm going to regret saying this when you have converted Melhed, they attack AA in a vengeful rage of Sartanist bloodthirst and then complain on the ruler channel about having their regions KRB'd. :P
Quote from: Lorgan on June 04, 2013, 02:17:53 AM
We've been meaning to update the golden feather for a while... make it a primitive ancestor-worship religion that is all about guidance through the lives of ancestors and fallen heroes and less (or not at all) about moral judgement. But well, there's so much stuff to do already...
Anyway, this thread is about the CoS. To be honest, I'm not really a fan due to my experiences with it on FEI and due to my being hardcore-CoI. 8) But that said, it's a well worked out religion and there is a bit of a religious gap at the moment (I mean, we didn't even have to make the destruction of the bloodspeakers a condition if we wanted to, it just died on it's own. :P) which an enthusiastic leader could exploit. So... good luck I guess. I just know I'm going to regret saying this when you have converted Melhed, they attack AA in a vengeful rage of Sartanist bloodthirst and then complain on the ruler channel about having their regions KRB'd. :P
Hah! You fool! Do you not see? Ar Agyr and Melhed will both embrace Sartanism and then doubleteam Thal to regain the crown of the Jaunes! :P
Also, I am proud to present the new tagline for the CoS:
Sartanism - three realms destroyed and still not dead yet!
Three?
Quote from: Antonine on June 04, 2013, 03:22:44 AM
Hah! You fool! Do you not see? Ar Agyr and Melhed will both embrace Sartanism and then doubleteam Thal to regain the crown of the Jaunes! :P
To quote Kevin Garnett, "Anything is possible!"
Quote from: Velax on June 04, 2013, 05:38:54 AM
Three?
Sartania, NeoSartania, Toupellon (the last is debatable).
Quote from: Antonine on June 04, 2013, 03:25:10 AM
Also, I am proud to present the new tagline for the CoS:
Sartanism - three realms destroyed and still not dead yet!
Yet.
http://youtu.be/dGFXGwHsD_A
-Jaune
Quote from: Anaris on June 03, 2013, 01:54:32 PM
Infiltrator lands.
Infiltrator stabs.
Infiltrator embarks.
Who stabbed? No way to know.
There is a problem with your whole approach on the infil class but lets not hijack this thread with that.
Quote from: Skiarxon on June 04, 2013, 09:13:33 PM
There is a problem with your whole approach on the infil class but lets not hijack this thread with that.
Then create a new one :)
I'm happy to discuss it, as long as it's not another "infiltrators should be invisible" thread. That one's been done to death.
So the Church of Sartan now has two temples and three members. That's the good news.
The bad news is that the only priest, Selene, is rather old and gets very few hours which is really slowing down preaching efforts :p
Doesnt all priests get 1 hour per hour?
Nope. They fixed that a while back. Old characters always get less hours, even as a Priest.
Indeed they did fix it. And it sucks balls for someone with an old character like mine :p
This might be why you don't want to rely on old farts starting new things :)
::shakes a stick at Congress::
Eh, converting the heathens of Beluaterra is Selene's retirement project - she has to have something to keep her busy in her old age ;)
Quote from: Antonine on June 14, 2013, 12:42:10 AM
Indeed they did fix it. And it sucks balls for someone with an old character like mine :p
They didn't fix it, they nerfed it. >:(
Quote from: Chénier on June 20, 2013, 04:53:29 AM
They didn't fix it, they nerfed it. >:(
No, we fixed it. It was never intended that priests be immune to the ravages of age.
Quote from: Anaris on June 20, 2013, 01:53:00 PM
No, we fixed it. It was never intended that priests be immune to the ravages of age.
But surely agelessness is a perk from the gods to their faithful servants?
Quote from: Antonine on June 20, 2013, 02:22:49 PM
But surely agelessness is a perk from the gods to their faithful servants?
Hmm, I always figured it was due to human sacrifices.