| Summary: | Accusation of cheating with no proof |
| Violation: | Accusation of cheating with no proof |
| World: | Far East |
| Complainer: | Anne-Marie Ruske (http://battlemaster.org/UserDetails.php?ID=34744) |
| About: | Anakoi (http://battlemaster.org/UserDetails.php?ID=32236) |
Full Complaint Text:Out-of-Character from Anakoi Ironhorse  (1 hour, 20 minutes ago)
Message sent to everyone in your realm (21 recipients)
Someone report Corondor as a cheat account, I cant find where to do it
starstar [reply to sender] | [ignore] | [userdetails]
Context, please.
There probably isn't any.
Probably just a case of bad wording, he should have asked where to report a cheater rather than ask someone else to report it.
Correct me if I'm wrong here, but based on my interactions with the player I would assume Ebglish isn't his first language. Its pretty solid but there are some gaps, and this may be one.
Corondor was a character of the Mugurk family.
The context (having used my Devly powers to peer into the realm) appears to be that the player is leaving the game.
I haven't the faintest clue why a player leaving the game is cause for accusing him of being a cheater.
I also haven't the faintest clue why the "Contact the Titans" link is so hard for Ironhorse to find, particularly when he had to go right past it to post this message.
Is he new to the realm? IIRC the Titans link doesn't show up until you've been in the realm for a short while. (2 weeks?) If not, then ... maybe he's just never had to do a Titans report before?
Well, the statement is obviously poorly chosen. A warning would seem to be in order. Next time, ask "How do I report cheating?", not "Hey, that's guy's cheating, can someone report him?"
Quote from: Indirik on June 27, 2013, 06:20:59 PM
Is he new to the realm? IIRC the Titans link doesn't show up until you've been in the realm for a short while. (2 weeks?) If not, then ... maybe he's just never had to do a Titans report before?
This is Ironhorse—he's been around for ages, and the information I have suggests he's been in Ohnar West for over a year.
Quote from: Stabbity on June 27, 2013, 10:56:52 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong here, but based on my interactions with the player I would assume Ebglish isn't his first language. Its pretty solid but there are some gaps, and this may be one.
His English is fine.
Quote from: Geronus on June 27, 2013, 06:28:26 PM
Well, the statement is obviously poorly chosen. A warning would seem to be in order. Next time, ask "How do I report cheating?", not "Hey, that's guy's cheating, can someone report him?"
Directly referencing me as a cheater implicitly accuses me of being a cheater.
http://forum.battlemaster.org/index.php/topic,1389.75.html
Precedent is set here as a 3 day lock.
Umm... I don't see requesting someone else file a report as the kind of accusation we're talking about.
It's lazy, sure, but I don't see it as breaking the rule itself.
Err...what? Publicly asking that someone be reported as a cheater has the exact same result as a public accusation: people now think that the accused is or could be a cheater while no proof has been provided. Which is exactly what the Rule is intended to prevent.
Personally, I gotta agree with Velax here. Asking for someone to be reported as a cheater is a declaration that you think they are a cheater. "Can someone report Kepler as a cheater?" is no different than saying "Kepler is a cheater."
As an aside: The reporter of this incident tried to open a forum account, but it was held in limbo by the spambot filter. I have approved her forum account, so she can speak for herself in this case.
Quote from: Velax on June 28, 2013, 05:15:25 AM
Err...what? Publicly asking that someone be reported as a cheater has the exact same result as a public accusation: people now think that the accused is or could be a cheater while no proof has been provided. Which is exactly what the Rule is intended to prevent.
Yes.
Quote from: DamnTaffer on June 28, 2013, 02:57:40 AM
Directly referencing me as a cheater implicitly accuses me of being a cheater.
http://forum.battlemaster.org/index.php/topic,1389.75.html
Precedent is set here as a 3 day lock.
The circumstances in that case were rather more extreme. We will keep this precedent in mind when we vote, however.
Thanks for approving me Indirik. So yes, this accusation of cheating was a response of the playing of Corondor deleting his account. There was no other action or conversation made to provoke the accusation. And I fully agree that saying, 'someone report Corondor as a cheat account' is just another way of saying 'Corondor is a cheat account'. And he definitly has no proof of it, as he has just sent another OOC message:
QuoteOut-of-Character from Anakoi Ironhorse (8 hours, 9 minutes ago)
Message sent to everyone in your realm (19 recipients)
Out-of-Character from Rose Ryder (13 hours, 22 minutes ago)
Message sent to everyone in your realm (21 recipients)
Sorry, saying someone report corondor as a cheat account is not accusing someone of cheating? And you still have not said why you think he is a cheat account, or where your proof is
Anne-Marie Ruske
Anne, It is not my place to get information or proof as you put it, When you see something suspicious your suppose to report it to the GM, I was at work and could not due to time.
I have played this game for more than 8 years, I know suspecious when I see it..... I If give you all o the proof are you able to then lock all of the accounts? No thats for the GM to deal with
And here he is stating he has no proof. Just suspicion. Also note his excuse of 'I cannot find the button' has changed to 'I did not have time'. I dont know whether this has any relevance.
Aint no way he has been playing 8 years and not know where button is
Someone who considers a player suspicious of cheating and brags about playing the game 8 years etc could write his own complain when he would have time.
There is no proof and in fact i do not like players making such statements in game in front of others when they do not bother themselves to fill the complain.
If he has proof let him bring it and we will look into it, if it's mere suspicion then he can always bring it in as a case and tell us from where this suspicion comes from so we can look into it, if he chooses to do neither then he better shut it.
Saying something like that in front of the realm can falsely "drag" other players in believing the same thing when there is nothing but suspicion.
It is almost like threatening with Titans. I believe the player deserves a warning in order to learn how to deal his "suspicions" in the game by using the appropriate game mechanics.
Funny how someone that's been "playing for 8 years" has an account created in 2011.
Quote from: ^ban^ on June 28, 2013, 01:30:09 PM
Funny how someone that's been "playing for 8 years" has an account created in 2011.
well i play since 2003 but my current account is from 2009 :) i deleted my first one in 2008 . So this might be the case here as well
Same with mine, I had an account for three years before my current one.
QuoteHis English is fine.
I wouldn't say it's fine. It's serviceable. In Cathay we usually have a team of three or four people to read his letters and then conference on what we think they meant.
A verdict has been reached, and necessary IG enforcement actions have been taken. For anyone who desires to cite this case in the future, the final verdict was:
"The Magistrates find the defendant guilty of publicly making accusations of cheating with no proof. This is expressly prohibited by the Social Contract. The fact that the message was posed as a question is irrelevant since the question clearly and unambiguously implied the accusation. Accusations of cheating with proof should be passed directly to the Titans or Magistrates and not discussed publicly outside of the Courthouse; multi-cheating accusations should be addressed to the Titans only."
Magistrates voted 5-1 in favor of the guilty verdict, with 4 in favor of a warning and 1 in favor of a 2-day lock. A warning has been issued. This thread will be locked after a few more days.