Does anyone think that the EC has an exciting, dynamic political landscape? Honestly, I can't fathom why I ever wanted to be a ruler on EC again. This is the most boring landscape possible. Everyone know what side everyone else is on. And if you ask someone their opinion, you already know exactly what they're going to say. Everyone knows what the battle lines for the next war are going to be. There's no point in talking to anyone about it, because they all have their minds made up. There's no audience to play too, since there is no audience. Everyone is an actor reading from a publicly available script they refuse to change.
What the hell happened to the EC? It used to be my favorite island. :(
I are disappoint. :'(
What EC needs is a free-for-all system like war islands. Everyone at war with each other and no allies ;D
It could be worse. I was explaining to a returning player the current political situation on Atamara. Then I got confused and started contradicting myself. It's a giant mess right now.
Lol, yes it is and I will not make it an easy ride on that island. Moto is back.
Now I just have to find some dragons.
Quote from: Motosuwa on March 31, 2014, 07:52:22 AM
Now I just have to find some dragons.
I'll sell you some dragon eggs. It'll cost you though.
I share Indirik's sentiment. EC used to be my go-to continent, I loved it. I probably destroyed a big portion of my own fun I had there, but still, I gave it a shot. Turned out the continent was deadlocked into several camps. It would be better if a few realms would splinter into several new, opposed realms. Much like Lappallanch suggested.
I thirded Indirik's statement. It used to be my favorite continent, I have heard about Northern Alliance, Central Alliance and Southern Alliance. Now it is just a big two camps, of which the following sentence best describes the scenario "if you are not with us, you are against us".
Quote from: Ketchum on March 31, 2014, 10:27:06 AM
I thirded Indirik's statement. It used to be my favorite continent, I have heard about Northern Alliance, Central Alliance and Southern Alliance. Now it is just a big two camps, of which the following sentence best describes the scenario "if you are not with us, you are against us".
You still have a choice though.
Quote from: Indirik on March 31, 2014, 05:04:25 AM
Does anyone think that the EC has an exciting, dynamic political landscape? Honestly, I can't fathom why I ever wanted to be a ruler on EC again. This is the most boring landscape possible. Everyone know what side everyone else is on. And if you ask someone their opinion, you already know exactly what they're going to say. Everyone knows what the battle lines for the next war are going to be. There's no point in talking to anyone about it, because they all have their minds made up. There's no audience to play too, since there is no audience. Everyone is an actor reading from a publicly available script they refuse to change.
What the hell happened to the EC? It used to be my favorite island. :(
I are disappoint. :'(
If you think all of that, then why do you act IC as you do? :P
You could have had other options as well, I stated that about Eponllyn already some months ago in a thread here.
Don't ask which ones, I won't tell you how to play. :P
But don't go complaining about others only because you are inable to think outside of the box.
You think Atanamir is what he is because he accepted to read from a publically available script?
Or his father Fuinur? Hell, he once created even an alliance Perdan - Old Rancagua - Sirion...
But if you have thrown the towel already, then better make place for those who are more hungry to set a new mark.
The problem is ruler of the bigger realm. I am not referring to this island, really, as i only started one character here recently. But a lot of other realms in other continents have these rulers that are so afraid their little toy get's destroyed if he plays the bad guy. I like what the previous ruler in Cathay did before he went rogue. And i like the King Outo of Ar Agyr how he fearlessly just oppose almost everyone(probably because we are covering their regions...hahah).
If the rulers are more willing to make it more fun for their people, then all these could have changed....
I created the Bloodspeakers in Melhed and accepted to be King there just to start a war. We lost, but that was the most active period in Melhed for years.
In EC, I can tell you, we don't have a Northern Alliance. But that will happen because of the Southern Alliance. If everyone in the south wants to fights North, the North will align to fight them... there is Nivemus/Caligus/Nivemus against the rest. But we are just waiting while they speak and do nothing. Besides that, It's very funny to see Atanamir' letters. Erik is living with a smile on his face in front of so much articulation and lies to convince a bunch of puppets.
I still think that instead of glaciers and monsters, a period of imposed war would be better. No allies, just fight for your flag against the world. Unhappily, probably we will see Sirion and Perdan devouring the continent before fight each other.
Quote from: Atanamir on March 31, 2014, 10:41:07 AM
If you think all of that, then why do you act IC as you do? :P
Because it's the course of action my character would take. I know you don't understand this, though. That's OK.
QuoteYou think Atanamir is what he is because he accepted to read from a publically available script?
Absolutely.
*Every* ruler on EC is playing a predetermined part that is 100% predictable. If you discount the migration of Eponllyn due to the ice (which was an OOC curveball that no one could have predicted, and didn't really change much anyway), then the situation as it stands now was 100% predictable as far back as 8 or 9 months, if not longer. Everyone knew that this is where we would end up. Atanamir's actions are perfectly predictable. We expected everything that has been played against us, and from exactly the people it came from. Fallangard was the final one to sign off on the script, but even that happened a good three or more months ago. I'm not exempting myself, even Eponllyn's part is playing out according to script. Given our place in the situation, there are just no other viable paths to follow.
EC has devolved into two camps, north vs south. No one on either side is willing to even entertain the possibility of switching sides, or standing up and staying independent.
Quote from: Lapallanch on March 31, 2014, 05:52:28 AM
What EC needs is a free-for-all system like war islands. Everyone at war with each other and no allies ;D
A balkanization of the island would be great. Perhaps as the player density goes up, it may happen. The low player count is what got us to where we are.
Quote from: Indirik on March 31, 2014, 06:51:54 PM
The low player count is what got us to where we are.
Given the history of the EC, I have to say, I'm quite skeptical of this.
After all, this is, what, the third time the continent has had a perfect North vs South polarization? Or is it the fourth?
No, I don't think it has. For the longest time it was North&South V. Center. Then once that war series was done, both the north and south turned on themselves. Then they turned back toward the center. And the center joined with the north, then turned on it.... Perhaps it is a bit too early to call it a done deal, but the way it's lined up now, it sure does look pretty locked up.
Quote from: Eduardo Almighty on March 31, 2014, 06:44:58 PM
In EC, I can tell you, we don't have a Northern Alliance. But that will happen because of the Southern Alliance.
Sirion is an alliance for itsself.
A realm with 33 regions.
If someone wants to look for stagnation then look on the list of dead realms which are buried of these 33 regions.
The SA was only formed to be able to counter such an empire like Sirion has created.
And that is because as Indirik stated...
Quote from: Indirik on March 31, 2014, 06:51:54 PM
The low player count is what got us to where we are.
Perdan in old times with 100+ chars could taken on Sirion alone, which would leave other war options for the other realms open.
And there you would have your pluralism.
Now we can't, nor any of the other southern realms can, that's why we formed the SA.
Sirion is too strong, that's why realms have to work together.
But I will disagree with Indirik on another issue.
Eponllyn - without the glacier thing - could have done other things.
Eponllyn - now, with the glacier - could only choose between A or B, but that's not the fault of the other players or rulers.
It's the fault of Eponllyn for not taking things into the hand earlier.
If you are unhappy with something then change it yourself, do not wait for others to change it.
It's always the same Indirik, when you get the downside somewhere you come here to the forum whining and point with fingers at others, what a dejavu...
For those who can't remember the last time:
http://forum.battlemaster.org/index.php/topic,4351.msg122317.html#msg122317
It is as with Garin IC, at least you keep us entertained with the lack of knowledge of the continent's politics. :P
EC needs an apocalipse, a sudden war against daimons like BT had with a nice plot or something similar. Something like a "call of cthulu" scenario where people celebrates getting a crate of food over rising a new lvl 5 temple. Heavily reduce population everywhere (maybe a plague?) and reduce significantly the amount of gold, make every penny count.
I think that in order to have some new politic dynamics we need to join everyone with the same goal, to rebuild everything after.
Quote from: Hinamoto on March 31, 2014, 07:42:08 PM
EC needs an apocalipse, a sudden war against daimons like BT had with a nice plot or something similar. Something like a "call of cthulu" scenario where people celebrates getting a crate of food over rising a new lvl 5 temple. Heavily reduce population everywhere (maybe a plague?) and reduce significantly the amount of gold, make every penny count.
I think that in order to have some new politic dynamics we need to join everyone with the same goal, to rebuild everything after.
Well, once I can get finished up with the current important things (which include the Ice Age, overhauling the Titan system so that they can be back up and running ASAP, and...one or two other things that haven't been announced yet), I'll be working on a set of serious changes to how war works. It's my hope that that will provide at least some impetus for change on all continents. (Don't expect the results of it to be rolling in before late April, early May at this point, though—and testing first, of course.)
QuoteThe SA was only formed to be able to counter such an empire like Sirion has created.
I really doubt, but whatever ;)
As it seems, the polarization of big realms/alliances is a problem of every Continent.
Quote from: Atanamir on March 31, 2014, 07:36:38 PM
It is as with Garin IC, at least you keep us entertained with the lack of knowledge of the continent's politics. :P
Really? You have to bring IC insults on to the forum to attack the players?
Quote from: Indirik on March 31, 2014, 08:25:26 PM
Really? You have to bring IC insults on to the forum to attack the players?
You come here and say repeatedly that people are more or less brainless drones and just play by reading a publically available script.
You really expected to write such insults in here and that it won't backfire on you?
Excuse me but I have not played 10 years and shaped EC along with other great players to be called such things.
If you can't take the heat, then don't open the gas valve...
Quote from: Atanamir on March 31, 2014, 08:44:08 PM
You come here and say repeatedly that people are more or less brainless drones and just play by reading a publically available script.
You really expected to write such insults in here and that it won't backfire on you?
Excuse me but I have not played 10 years AND SHAPED EC along with other great players to be called such things.
If you can't take the heat, then don't open the gas valve...
I read "shaved" and i laughed... sorry its monday.
Quote from: Atanamir on March 31, 2014, 08:44:08 PM
You come here and say repeatedly that people are more or less brainless drones and just play by reading a publically available script.
You really expected to write such insults in here and that it won't backfire on you?
Excuse me but I have not played 10 years and shaped EC along with other great players to be called such things.
If you can't take the heat, then don't open the gas valve...
I'll take a page from your book on this one: "I never called anyone a "brainless drone". I didn't name anyone, you're taking this all too personally. I'm not insulting anyone."
Yes, we all played alongside great players. Yes, we've all played for years. Yes, we've all shaped the island, etc., etc. None of that exempts us from responsibility for the situation that has evolved. Every player on the EC, including me and you, are responsible for how things have evolved.
And yeah, I did post something similar to the way I started this thread. And if you'll note from that post, and from this one here, I'm not the only one that feels this way. If it was just me, then sure, sour grapes, one random nutjob, whatever... But it's not. That prior post was written following an OOC message from the EC ruler's channel where the
rulers of EC were bemoaning the fact of how EC was turning into a sucky place. (And I didn't start that conversation, either.) I stand by what I said back then. And nothing has changed.
Moving past all that, convince me that I'm wrong. Convince me that events on EC are not now where anyone could have predicted they would be, one year ago today. (Again, making allowances for the ice age event.) IC letters just point out how lock-step everyone is marching. I tried to break things up, and just got locked out. Yes, I failed to split things up, and effect some change to the political landscape.
So, convince me that the EC is a rich and vibrant political landscape, chock full of opportunity, variety, and options. I don't think you or anyone else can honestly stand here and say that anyone on the EC right has more than these two options: 1) Join the Southern Alliance, and 2) Join the Northern Alliance. Anyone who tries anything else gets smacked down.
Quote from: Indirik on March 31, 2014, 05:04:25 AM
What the hell happened to the EC? It used to be my favorite island. :(
I are disappoint. :'(
Quick response:Fontan is gone...that's what happened!
Response after reading lead post and replies:The issue with EC is the same as Far East, the shape. Sooner or later the continent would be divided in two sides, since Perdan got rid of Ibladesh+DOA a balancing force and Sirion got rid of Fontan+SOA another balancing force.
Sirion created Nivemus and Perdan what you see on the south, you can say "no these realms rule themselves" LIES, if Perdan/Sirion wanted these regions would be just wasteland. Also in a conflict you have to take your neighbor's side (the bigger one).
Now for a foreign force (the situation Eponllyn is now), there is no choice but to take a side, call me whatever but that is how the next big war on EC will be, you have no choice that to take side.......there is no escape since the foreign realm is asking for land, is the same as swearing an oath.
Peace!
When I was in Fontan, they were already dead, but still had a few regions. Thru had a death wish, though, and weren't interested in trying to stay alive.
Correction: Sirion never got rid of Fontan. Perdan and Caligus did. Sirion got rid of SoA to rebuild Old Rancagua which now is called Nivemus.
It is quite entertaining to hear Atanamir say no one can fight Sirion 1v1. When Perdan had just as many players as Sirion they still brought their underlings along. So don't try to come up with some petty excuse.
Quote from: Indirik on March 31, 2014, 05:04:25 AM
Does anyone think that the EC has an exciting, dynamic political landscape? Honestly, I can't fathom why I ever wanted to be a ruler on EC again. This is the most boring landscape possible. Everyone know what side everyone else is on. And if you ask someone their opinion, you already know exactly what they're going to say. Everyone knows what the battle lines for the next war are going to be. There's no point in talking to anyone about it, because they all have their minds made up. There's no audience to play too, since there is no audience. Everyone is an actor reading from a publicly available script they refuse to change.
What the hell happened to the EC? It used to be my favorite island. :(
I are disappoint. :'(
My take on it is that EC is this way largely because that's how most of the players want it to be. Maverick developments and continental shake-ups often come about through internal political instability, but that now largely causes realms to be mistrusted and lose allies. Westmoor used to be a barrel of fun when we had all the rebellions and internal strife, but it was broadly mocked by players outside the realm (including you, Indirik). Fallangard also got a lot of negative heat when it was created by a rebel duke of Caligus. That disapproval has led to that aspect of gameplay declining.
The last time something of this type happened in my ball park - the traitorous creation of Fane - I made the decision to run with it and try to help Ironsides to shake up that side of the continent by not crushing Fane immediately. But Sirion wasn't interested and crushed Fane itself to assimilate Oligarch.
If people were really finding the continental political lines too predictable to be interesting, anyone at Duke level in Sirion, Perdan, or Nivemus has the power to introduce a shake up by going it alone and forming a new realm without permission. I've always said that on any island, the more realms there are, the more interesting the political landscape.
Sirion has the most amazing defensive line ever seen. Even better than Astrum did on Dwilight. The southerners never broke Sirion's line. We snuck a raid or two around the north. But that was back when Fontan was running the war, and they couldn't understand anything more than "Big Blob attack on Trinbar!"
Quote from: Foxglove on April 01, 2014, 05:51:46 AM
My take on it is that EC is this way largely because that's how most of the players want it to be. Maverick developments and continental shake-ups often come about through internal political instability, but that now largely causes realms to be mistrusted and lose allies. Westmoor used to be a barrel of fun when we had all the rebellions and internal strife, but it was broadly mocked by players outside the realm (including you, Indirik). Fallangard also got a lot of negative heat when it was created by a rebel duke of Caligus. That disapproval has led to that aspect of gameplay declining.
Westmoor may have been a lot of fun for the people inside the realm. I won't deny that. But you have to admit that they were the most pathetic war fighting realm of all time.
And, yeah, sometimes you get a lot of negativity. Every time a ruler makes an important decision, they will *always* get negative attention. No matter which way Eponllyn went during this recent crisis, someone would have been screaming and yelling at me for doing the wrong thing. Same thing happened when we went to war with Armmonia. Or when we took Betholm. You have to realize that part of a ruler's job is to take that negative attention, and try to do something positive with it.
QuoteIf people were really finding the continental political lines too predictable to be interesting, anyone at Duke level in Sirion, Perdan, or Nivemus has the power to introduce a shake up by going it alone and forming a new realm without permission. I've always said that on any island, the more realms there are, the more interesting the political landscape.
I agree that more realms = better game. But merely saying that "any duke can fix it" is a bit disingenuous. If Slimbar seceded, it would quickly get crushed. Same with Aix. Or even Partora. Now, if two dukes conspre to secede at the same time, then perhaps something could happen.
However, it doesn't even take a secession to stir things up. It is possible for realms to just ... let things happen ... to their allies without blindly supporting them. Nothing is more infuriating than a ruler who says nothing but "We support our allies" as they march off to war. Or "We are part of an alliance, we won't even talk to you except as part of a block-level negotiation". When you have a perfectly acceptable reason to just allow something to happen, and thus create more excitement and opportunities for *everyone*, yourself included, why not do it? Probably because it involves some risk. Rulers are programmed to avoid risk at all costs, and that's a shame.
I'm not saying that you need to be stupid in the risks you take. There's a difference in doing stupid things just for kicks and taking calculated risks that could yield big payoffs.
Quote from: Indirik on April 01, 2014, 06:07:36 AM
Westmoor may have been a lot of fun for the people inside the realm. I won't deny that. But you have to admit that they were the most pathetic war fighting realm of all time.
They became better when I was General ;) ;D
Quote from: Indirik on April 01, 2014, 06:07:36 AMmerely saying that "any duke can fix it" is a bit disingenuous. If Slimbar seceded, it would quickly get crushed. Same with Aix. Or even Partora. Now, if two dukes conspre to secede at the same time, then perhaps something could happen.
Naturally, a certain level of organization and planning helps hugely. But anyone at ducal level should already have some sort of powerbase and following. To take an example from Atamara, Kindel succeeded in the Riverholm duchy split from Caergoth because he talked to all his lords and knights, and they liked and trusted him.
But, even if we're dealing with a single rogue duke, there will always be some players who could find reasons to support him (or her, for Duchesses) within the RP of their characters. That's where it comes down to being a collective responsibility on the part of players to make the game interesting. Over the years, I've encountered a huge amount of people with the attitude of "I'm bored, someone should do something to make the game more interesting for me". Rather than, "I'm bored, what could I do to make the game more interesting for myself." Again, that probably requires effort by the player/s to lay the foundations to successfully pull off something interesting, but the refusal to do that is all part of people expecting others to make the game interesting for them.
Quote from: Indirik on April 01, 2014, 06:07:36 AM
However, it doesn't even take a secession to stir things up. It is possible for realms to just ... let things happen ... to their allies without blindly supporting them. Nothing is more infuriating than a ruler who says nothing but "We support our allies" as they march off to war.
Although you might be able to do this from time to time, doing that regularly would probably leave you without any allies. As someone who's played in his fair share of smaller realms fighting bigger realms, it can also be massively frustrating and not fun for players when you call on your allies and they don't respond.
Quote from: Indirik on April 01, 2014, 06:07:36 AM
When you have a perfectly acceptable reason to just allow something to happen, and thus create more excitement and opportunities for *everyone*, yourself included, why not do it? Probably because it involves some risk. Rulers are programmed to avoid risk at all costs, and that's a shame.
Again, I'd disagree that this is completely down to the rulers avoiding risks. Taking Sirion as an example, you could probably get 3 new realms out of their current regions and still keep a Sirion core realm. The fact they don't do that has to be more than the ruler. It has to be that most of the players there want to avoid the risk of breaking up their blob and their defensive line.
Even when you do take a risk (i.e. me allow Fane to exist), someone comes along and crushes a maverick development at birth to make their own position safer and less risky.
Quote from: Atanamir on March 31, 2014, 10:34:13 AM
You still have a choice though.
See Sonya reply below which answer your post. It is not much of a choice, there is someone asked before and we all discuss previously. Comparing Perdan and Sirion distance to Nivemus, who is the nearest bigger neighbor you probably do not want to annoy? ::)
From Nivemus perspective. We did make our choice previously by not getting Sirion to help us in our war with OI. We preferred one on one realm war just like the good old days. But then Perdan army came visiting and say hello, then crushed our whole army, and then they bide us good day. We were left amused at the whole army massacre should I call it. That was the worst nightmare Brock ever had as Nivemus General, imagine all nobles requesting for gold fund after their units all completely vanished into the thin air :o
Quote from: Sonya on April 01, 2014, 01:08:21 AM
Sirion created Nivemus and Perdan what you see on the south, you can say "no these realms rule themselves" LIES, if Perdan/Sirion wanted these regions would be just wasteland. Also in a conflict you have to take your neighbor's side (the bigger one).
Quote from: Sonya on April 01, 2014, 01:08:21 AM
Quick response:
Fontan is gone...that's what happened!
Yes, I guess that's the reason why. Most of Central realms are gone, which can be of balancing force.
Quote from: Indirik on April 01, 2014, 05:54:25 AM
Sirion has the most amazing defensive line ever seen. Even better than Astrum did on Dwilight. The southerners never broke Sirion's line. We snuck a raid or two around the north. But that was back when Fontan was running the war, and they couldn't understand anything more than "Big Blob attack on Trinbar!"
Democracy does have its good and bad points. All Fontan Generals elected were favoring attack on Trinbar, I think they won their elections based on that campaign key selling point. It is becoming too predictable for Sirion to guess. Brock once participated in the north raids on Sirion and the raids were a success.
Quote from: Indirik on April 01, 2014, 06:07:36 AM
I agree that more realms = better game. But merely saying that "any duke can fix it" is a bit disingenuous. If Slimbar seceded, it would quickly get crushed. Same with Aix. Or even Partora. Now, if two dukes conspre to secede at the same time, then perhaps something could happen.
Interesting proposition here ;)
Quote from: Foxglove on April 01, 2014, 07:31:13 AM
But, even if we're dealing with a single rogue duke, there will always be some players who could find reasons to support him (or her, for Duchesses) within the RP of their characters. That's where it comes down to being a collective responsibility on the part of players to make the game interesting. Over the years, I've encountered a huge amount of people with the attitude of "I'm bored, someone should do something to make the game more interesting for me". Rather than, "I'm bored, what could I do to make the game more interesting for myself." Again, that probably requires effort by the player/s to lay the foundations to successfully pull off something interesting, but the refusal to do that is all part of people expecting others to make the game interesting for them.
I agree with your statement. We are bored, what can we do? Let go shake things up! :P
Quote from: Indirik on March 31, 2014, 11:14:53 PM
I'll take a page from your book on this one: "I never called anyone a "brainless drone". I didn't name anyone, you're taking this all too personally. I'm not insulting anyone."
"Everyone is an actor reading from a publicly available script they refuse to change."
Is for me the same as calling someone brainless. Just with some few flowers around it.
Quote from: Indirik on March 31, 2014, 11:14:53 PM
And yeah, I did post something similar to the way I started this thread. And if you'll note from that post, and from this one here, I'm not the only one that feels this way. If it was just me, then sure, sour grapes, one random nutjob, whatever... But it's not. That prior post was written following an OOC message from the EC ruler's channel where the rulers of EC were bemoaning the fact of how EC was turning into a sucky place. (And I didn't start that conversation, either.) I stand by what I said back then. And nothing has changed.
I wasn't ruler back then. But I didn't see any other ruler going public about it.
You know why? Because there is no point. Only rulers can change some things, that's why it was discussed also in this channel.
There is no other point bringing this to the forum, than to beg or sympathy or someone's impotence to change things.
But that is not good for the game.
Leave some OOC conversations within the game, and start some things not at all on an OOC level and not on the forum at all.
Play the game and stop hurting it.
You complain on the one hand that we have not enough chars, on the other none will be joining Ec if he reads all this !@#$ here. Seriously.
Quote from: Indirik on March 31, 2014, 11:14:53 PM
Moving past all that, convince me that I'm wrong. Convince me that events on EC are not now where anyone could have predicted they would be, one year ago today. (Again, making allowances for the ice age event.) IC letters just point out how lock-step everyone is marching. I tried to break things up, and just got locked out. Yes, I failed to split things up, and effect some change to the political landscape.
You are old enough to recognise things alone.
If you still aren't able to, then leave better these things to others.
I do not need to tell you how to play or to convince to anything.
But Eponllyn could have had more of the share at many points of its lifetime, without being on side A or B.
Quote from: Lapallanch on April 01, 2014, 02:35:21 AM
It is quite entertaining to hear Atanamir say no one can fight Sirion 1v1. When Perdan had just as many players as Sirion they still brought their underlings along. So don't try to come up with some petty excuse.
Atanamir was not ruler then. That's not his (or my) pigeon.
Quote from: Indirik on April 01, 2014, 05:54:25 AM
Sirion has the most amazing defensive line ever seen. Even better than Astrum did on Dwilight.
And what happened to Astrum? Who were the Generals of Niselur and Asylon again...oh wait...Perdanese players. ;)
This new SA had not yet her shot at Sirion's walls, so do not judge what has not yet happened.
Quote from: Indirik on April 01, 2014, 06:07:36 AM
And, yeah, sometimes you get a lot of negativity. Every time a ruler makes an important decision, they will *always* get negative attention. No matter which way Eponllyn went during this recent crisis, someone would have been screaming and yelling at me for doing the wrong thing. Same thing happened when we went to war with Armmonia. Or when we took Betholm. You have to realize that part of a ruler's job is to take that negative attention, and try to do something positive with it.
And that's your mistake as ruler.
You play a totally reactive ruler when you should play an active ruler.
As reactive ruler you always have to respond to situations or even worse, you look to legitimate things after they have happened.
It's like with chess. A good player has already set up his plan and has thought several moves ahead before he even starts the active part like taking a region or declaring a war.
And the plan should always include that negative attention is not being able to come up at all.
Communication is key here and communication is something that Eponllyn always lacked.
Quote from: Indirik on April 01, 2014, 06:07:36 AM
I agree that more realms = better game. But merely saying that "any duke can fix it" is a bit disingenuous.
Then let the SA do her job with Sirion and go out of our way! :D
Quote from: Atanamir on April 01, 2014, 09:16:28 AM
But Eponllyn could have had more of the share at many points of its lifetime, without being on side A or B.
You think Eponllyn didn't try? Perdan, and specifically the character of Atanamir, has cockblocked Eponllyn at every turn. And now when Eponllyn finally gets to move our home while keeping the realm's continuity (ie, not joining another realm to fight for them in the hopes we can colonize a new area because we know how well that works out historically in BM, especially on EI), its Perdan/Atanamir being the same old tyrants as when Eponllyn was upset about King Nigel's intervention and threats in Fallangard/Armonia/Eponllyn. If you as a player really wanted Eponllyn to have 'had more of the share' perhaps you would've let us figure that out on our own between us three instead of throwing your military/diplomatic weight around?
I'm not saying Sirion was innocent in this time either, all they wanted was to use Eponllyn for its aims too, but in light of the glacier they were a lot more gracious to us than 'join us and hope you get a new realm in the future, but lose the old realm in the process and likely never get it in the end because players lose interest, times and priorities change, and Perdan just uses the characters for its ends without any real care for Eponllyn'. Seriously, the realm was somewhat neutral still until the last week character Atanamir/Perdan pushed Eponllyn straight into Sirion's arms. You praise character Atanamir's diplomatic skill, but if anything this has proven there is no diplomacy in character Atanamir, just threats, betrayal, lies, and tyranny.
Quote from: Atanamir on April 01, 2014, 09:16:28 AM
Then let the SA do her job with Sirion and go out of our way! :D
The only reason we're 'in your way' is because you're deciding we're in your way. It is not Eponllyn saying 'come at us SA', its SA insisting there's no other way than to attack Eponllyn. Seriously, with all Atanamir's spies, did you miss the part where we were discussing only insisting on being a buffer/not allowing SA/NA to travel through our new lands?
Quote from: Vita on April 01, 2014, 09:49:26 AM
You think Eponllyn didn't try? Perdan, and specifically the character of Atanamir, has cockblocked Eponllyn at every turn. And now when Eponllyn finally gets to move our home while keeping the realm's continuity (ie, not joining another realm to fight for them in the hopes we can colonize a new area because we know how well that works out historically in BM, especially on EI), its Perdan/Atanamir being the same old tyrants as when Eponllyn was upset about King Nigel's intervention and threats in Fallangard/Armonia/Eponllyn. If you as a player really wanted Eponllyn to have 'had more of the share' perhaps you would've let us figure that out on our own between us three instead of throwing your military/diplomatic weight around?
Sometimes I wonder about these high level complains.
Eponllyn doubled its land mass in the war against Armonia.
It got Itorunt basically without a fight.
Other realms fight to double their landmass for years.
You got it faster than you deserved it, complain to the people of Armonia who didn't give you a good fight and just handed it over.
But you want more, more, more...well at some point, it stops, and you have to wait till new oppurtunities arise.
Well now the glacier came and again you feel mocked around...eh well...what else can I say now...please go to Sirion, seriously.
Quote from: Vita on April 01, 2014, 09:49:26 AM
I'm not saying Sirion was innocent in this time either, all they wanted was to use Eponllyn for its aims too, but in light of the glacier they were a lot more gracious to us than 'join us and hope you get a new realm in the future, but lose the old realm in the process and likely never get it in the end because players lose interest, times and priorities change, and Perdan just uses the characters for its ends without any real care for Eponllyn'. Seriously, the realm was somewhat neutral still until the last week character Atanamir/Perdan pushed Eponllyn straight into Sirion's arms. You praise character Atanamir's diplomatic skill, but if anything this has proven there is no diplomacy in character Atanamir, just threats, betrayal, lies, and tyranny.
Assumptions. Show me proof for what you say and I shall agree.
Quote from: Vita on April 01, 2014, 09:49:26 AM
The only reason we're 'in your way' is because you're deciding we're in your way. It is not Eponllyn saying 'come at us SA', its SA insisting there's no other way than to attack Eponllyn. Seriously, with all Atanamir's spies, did you miss the part where we were discussing only insisting on being a buffer/not allowing SA/NA to travel through our new lands?
LOL Eponllyn receives from Sirion the most contested city of the continent and you wonder why you are in the way?
The most hilarious thing is that Garin thought the SA would have offered Oligarch as well to them.
See, Westmoor is a founding member of SA, and well, Oligarch is their strongest claim in a future war against Sirion, so why should they give the city suddenly to you?!
Eponllyn's strategic analysts should have done better their math before accepting the next best offer, because Westmoor would ask the SA to attack ANY realm that controls Oligarch asides of Sirion.
Oh and Atanamir has no spies, no worries. It is your interior problem if you have rebels who contact him and ask for help.
And I'd ask a moderator to delete that last line of yours since it is IC knowledge - which I didn't know (but could have guessed though).
Atanamir. This will be the last time i have the misfortune to read one of your illogical, fallacy ridden posts. Every thread you post in has its matureness reduced to that of a seven year old crying about not being able to eat desert before dinner. From this point on you will be ignored, and anyone with any sense will do the same.
Quote from: Gustav Kuriga on April 01, 2014, 01:38:30 PM
Atanamir. This will be the last time i have the misfortune to read one of your illogical, fallacy ridden posts. Every thread you post in has its matureness reduced to that of a seven year old crying about not being able to eat desert before dinner. From this point on you will be ignored, and anyone with any sense will do the same.
And your actual point with regards to the content in the whole discussion was...? lol
Tone it down, everyone, or the thread will get locked.
Quote from: Foxglove on April 01, 2014, 07:31:13 AM
Taking Sirion as an example, you could probably get 3 new realms out of their current regions and still keep a Sirion core realm. The fact they don't do that has to be more than the ruler.
That.
Quote from: Foxglove on April 01, 2014, 07:31:13 AM
Although you might be able to do this from time to time, doing that regularly would probably leave you without any allies. As someone who's played in his fair share of smaller realms fighting bigger realms, it can also be massively frustrating and not fun for players when you call on your allies and they don't respond.
I do agree with this. It's a tough line to walk. I'm trying not to name names or drag IC stuff into this, and just talk generalities, but its hard when everyone probably knows what you're talking about anyway. ;) When you have two realms of equal size trying to square off in a war, and Big Brother steps in to side with one, using its overwhelmingly large armies to squash the war before it happens, then how is that contributing to the fun and dynamic nature of the game? It's a different situation when a large realm goes after a small realm and the smaller realms equally-small allies bail out.
It's a tough line to walk. But at some point, don't you just have to sit back and say "You got yourself into it, now get yourself out of it" especially when doing so comprises no risk to yourself.
QuoteAgain, I'd disagree that this is completely down to the rulers avoiding risks. Taking Sirion as an example, you could probably get 3 new realms out of their current regions and still keep a Sirion core realm. The fact they don't do that has to be more than the ruler. It has to be that most of the players there want to avoid the risk of breaking up their blob and their defensive line.
At one time, Sirion did split off into three realms. Apparently they didn't like it, and consolidated back into one monolithic realm.
Honestly, at this time I can't really blame them for not breaking up. As much as I think more realms = more fun, it would be suicide for Sirion to break up now. 2/3rds of the island has publicly declared they desire to not just beat up Sirion, but slaughter each and every last one of them, and replace the entire realm with "human kingdoms", or something like that. Doesn't exactly provide Sirion much of an alternative to sticking together for mutual defense, does it?
QuoteEven when you do take a risk (i.e. me allow Fane to exist), someone comes along and crushes a maverick development at birth to make their own position safer and less risky.
Unfortunately, that happens sometimes...
Quote from: Atanamir on April 01, 2014, 09:16:28 AM
"Everyone is an actor reading from a publicly available script they refuse to change."
Is for me the same as calling someone brainless. Just with some few flowers around it.
I never said that. If you choose to interpret it that way, then that's your cross to bear.
And in case you hadn't figured it out yet, this is the exact same claim you use all the time to insult people and then try to wiggle out of it. Lots of insinuation, no actual names being mentioned, and yet everyone knows exactly what you meant. But you just laugh it off, toss on some smilies, and claim that everyone is being too sensitive. Kind of annoying/infuriating, isn't it? Think about that the next time you start tossing around obvious/veiled insults and claiming that they really weren't.
QuoteI wasn't ruler back then. But I didn't see any other ruler going public about it.
"I didn't see it, therefore it didn't happen."
QuoteOnly rulers can change some things, that's why it was discussed also in this channel.
There is no other point bringing this to the forum, than to beg or sympathy or someone's impotence to change things.
The point of bringing it to the forums is to try and increase awareness of the situation, and see what can be done, in aggregate, to alleviate the situation. Discussing something between 5 or 6 people, when you're trying to make changes that affect the entire game as a whole, is pretty pointless. I'm not trying to change anything for Eponllyn. It will live or die based on what happens IG, not what happens on the forum.
QuoteBut Eponllyn could have had more of the share at many points of its lifetime, without being on side A or B.
This is absolutely wrong.
QuoteAnd what happened to Astrum?
Apathy. Overconfidence. Bad leadership. Niselur was beaten and begging for mercy. Astrum refused Niselur's terms. Then our general left and everything went to hell.
Quote
Communication is key here and communication is something that Eponllyn always lacked.
Another case of "I didn't see it, therefore it didn't happen." The fact that you didn't receive a letter doesn't mean that no letters were sent. Eponllyn exchanged lots of letters with other rulers. Yet you can't expect Eponllyn to be all buddy-buddy with the man who declared that if Armonia loots Perdan, then Perdan will burn Eponllyn to the ground, and then proceeded to do so, can you?
Quote from: Indirik on April 01, 2014, 06:18:37 PM
2/3rds of the island has publicly declared they desire to not just beat up Sirion, but slaughter each and every last one of them, and replace the entire realm with "human kingdoms", or something like that.
Do you actually really believe what you say?
I mean seriously, where do you find these obvious facts for your argumentation?
Quote from: Indirik on April 01, 2014, 06:40:47 PM
The point of bringing it to the forums is to try and increase awareness of the situation, and see what can be done, in aggregate, to alleviate the situation. Discussing something between 5 or 6 people, when you're trying to make changes that affect the entire game as a whole, is pretty pointless. I'm not trying to change anything for Eponllyn. It will live or die based on what happens IG, not what happens on the forum.
And how many people discuss here on the forum?
And I mean seriously discussing.
Less than 5 - 6 people if you look at it.
And there is your big forum mistake as always.
See, the 5-6 people ingame are elected by many more people.
Why? Because they have obviously some talents. Experience. Leadership. Visions.
So these elected people have much more knowledge in what is best for their realms than most of your forum people.
They are there every day, know the continent, the people who play on it and everything that is relevant to it.
You should have left the discussion therefore better to them, they are much more civil and productive than this forum could ever be.
Instead you come here and complain how bad everything is. Let's cry everyone a bit. But solutions? Nothing.
So again, leave some things ingame to the people who care, know and are competent enough.
Because incompetent people do not get elected in Battlemaster usually.
Usually.
Its the best reason people had so far to war Sirion... the extinction of the elves.
Sirion defends its kind, while the southern alliance wants to make a genocide of the elven race.
Take it, is ten times better than invent the kidnap of a King like Westmoor once did.
Quote from: Hinamoto on April 01, 2014, 06:58:46 PM
Its the best reason people had so far to war Sirion... the extinction of the elves.
Sirion defends its kind, while the southern alliance wants to make a genocide of the elven race.
Take it, is ten times better than invent the kidnap of a King like Westmoor once did.
Soon the real reason will be revealed. No worries. Everything will come.
Quote from: Atanamir on April 01, 2014, 06:45:42 PM
Do you actually really believe what you say?
I mean seriously, where do you find these obvious facts for your argumentation?
Well, hello kettle.
I almost can't breathe; this is the best thing I've ever read and sums up everything perfectly.
Quote from: Atanamir on April 01, 2014, 06:57:36 PM
See, the 5-6 people ingame are elected by many more people.
Why? Because they have obviously some talents. Experience. Leadership. Visions.
So these elected people have much more knowledge in what is best for their realms than most of your forum people.
They are there every day, know the continent, the people who play on it and everything that is relevant to it.
In game, you vote for or against a character, not people. If you're voting for people, then that 95% of your problem right there.
Quote from: Atanamir on April 01, 2014, 07:00:30 PM
Soon the real reason will be revealed. No worries. Everything will come.
Sure. I bet there is an undeniable and logical explanation to desire the killing of the elves. ::)
I believe the sole reason for people to hate the elves, is because they are unique. Sirionites are the only ones in the game allowed to play elves, and despite what Tom said about the only elves in the game are those chars created before idk which year (which i heavily disagree with), many people plays their chars as elves, because they are Sirionites, and they live in the realm of the elves and that really produces anger among the others, anger probably related to the envy about not been allowed to play the char as other thing than a human. This means that the elven hate comes from OOC reasons? I definetely believe so. Can be transformed into IC reasons? I definetely believe so. Persecutions of other races, ideas, religions have been part of our history, why wouldnt be something valid inside the game?
Quote from: Hinamoto on April 01, 2014, 08:09:38 PM
Sure. I bet there is an undeniable and logical explanation to desire the killing of the elves. ::)
I believe the sole reason for people to hate the elves, is because they are unique. Sirionites are the only ones in the game allowed to play elves, and despite what Tom said about the only elves in the game are those chars created before idk which year (which i heavily disagree with), many people plays their chars as elves, because they are Sirionites, and they live in the realm of the elves and that really produces anger among the others, anger probably related to the envy about not been allowed to play the char as other thing than a human. This means that the elven hate comes from OOC reasons? I definetely believe so. Can be transformed into IC reasons? I definetely believe so. Persecutions of other races, ideas, religions have been part of our history, why wouldnt be something valid inside the game?
No one cares about the human-elf thing.
Quote from: vonGenf on April 01, 2014, 07:43:00 PM
In game, you vote for or against a character, not people. If you're voting for people, then that 95% of your problem right there.
I agree. But then again, I believe that a great part of the char's not-game-mech-related skills depend a lot on the people's skills behind them.
That begins with simple things such as the language they use and ends with more complex things like for example social skills they have.
Quote from: Hinamoto on April 01, 2014, 08:09:38 PM
Sure. I bet there is an undeniable and logical explanation to desire the killing of the elves. ::)
I believe the sole reason for people to hate the elves, is because they are unique. Sirionites are the only ones in the game allowed to play elves, and despite what Tom said about the only elves in the game are those chars created before idk which year (which i heavily disagree with), many people plays their chars as elves, because they are Sirionites, and they live in the realm of the elves and that really produces anger among the others, anger probably related to the envy about not been allowed to play the char as other thing than a human. This means that the elven hate comes from OOC reasons? I definetely believe so. Can be transformed into IC reasons? I definetely believe so. Persecutions of other races, ideas, religions have been part of our history, why wouldnt be something valid inside the game?
Possible is everything, but I believe to know that at least Atanamir has less brutal reasons to fight Sirion at the moment. ;)
Quote from: Stabbity on April 01, 2014, 08:50:31 PM
No one cares about the human-elf thing.
Many people argued wholeheartedly about that issue not too long ago with any player with a char in Sirion stating that was an elf. I even recall people mocking to those playing their chars as elves, as they chars using fake years with ducktape to look like elves. ;D
If you were right, it would be great!
Quote from: Atanamir on April 01, 2014, 08:57:56 PM
Possible is everything, but I believe to know that at least Atanamir has less brutal reasons to fight Sirion at the moment. ;)
Then its clear that the southern alliance goes to war for Atanamirs "not that brutal reasons". There is certain achievement there, Atanamir is making half of the continent go to war for his personal reasons. I applaud that!
Quote from: Hinamoto on April 01, 2014, 08:58:38 PM
Many people argued wholeheartedly about that issue not too long ago with any player with a char in Sirion stating that was an elf. I even recall people mocking to those playing their chars as elves, as they chars using fake years with ducktape to look like elves. ;D
If you were right, it would be great!
Many posts. Not many people.
Quote from: Stabbity on April 01, 2014, 09:13:16 PM
Many posts. Not many people.
It was quiet few people, counting that the issue escalated to the IRC and most of the discussion i saw, were there. Anyways... be it 2 or 3 or 20 it refutes your first statement. "No one cares about the human-elf thing." Clearly some people cares.
Quote from: Hinamoto on April 01, 2014, 09:17:43 PM
It was quiet few people, counting that the issue escalated to the IRC and most of the discussion i saw, were there. Anyways... be it 2 or 3 or 20 it refutes your first statement. "No one cares about the human-elf thing." Clearly some people cares.
Usually when someone uses the terms no one, or everyone, its hyperbole. 2 or 3 or 20 is still a small number stacked against the player base.
The "elf-thing" is just another "kidnapped king" or "haradrim" situation. All the same. This is theatrical. Dramatic... and totally false. Some will believe and follow, of course.
I also believe that there are many brutal reasons for Atanamir and characters with the same behavior and historic. Nothing wrong with that. They won a lot of people to their cause. Like many who hate them for the same reasons. I will fight for Sirion because I believe their plans (as characters and players) to divide Sirion is failed. Also, I don't try to impose my vision of this game in an entire continent by force. I don't like it. I don't need to be obtuse to change the game. The ends do not justify the means.
I will just ask, please... PLEASE... continue attacking Trinbar. I did my characters defending that walls against the continent.
Quote from: Hinamoto on April 01, 2014, 09:01:29 PM
Then its clear that the southern alliance goes to war for Atanamirs "not that brutal reasons". There is certain achievement there, Atanamir is making half of the continent go to war for his personal reasons. I applaud that!
Re-read my sentence. I was speaking only for Atanamir.
Quote from: Atanamir on April 01, 2014, 09:32:33 PM
Re-read my sentence. I was speaking only for Atanamir.
No, you said "the real reasons will soon come out" and then you refeer as "Atanamir reasons" ending up as the real reasons that are about to come out are Atanamir's reasons which made me congratulate the skill to have all that people fighting Sirion for Atanamir's reasons.
Quote from: Eduardo Almighty on April 01, 2014, 09:29:30 PM
I will just ask, please... PLEASE... continue attacking Trinbar. I did my characters defending that walls against the continent.
haha Eduardo, maybe we should burn everything and leave only Trinbar and Avamar untouched! ;)
See Erik and Durion continue to claim to be undefeated while the rest burns...that would be funny...but utopical, of course. I am j/k.
Quote from: Hinamoto on April 01, 2014, 09:34:47 PM
No, you said "the real reasons will soon come out" and then you refeer as "Atanamir reasons" ending up as the real reasons that are about to come out are Atanamir's reasons which made me congratulate the skill to have all that people fighting Sirion for Atanamir's reasons.
LOL you like puzzling from different posts, do you? ;)
But I take it as compliment that you try so hard to put something in my mouth which I clearly not said.
But I can only say that what you see sent by Atanamir or any other char IC is that what counts...
And certainly impossible, just to say ;)
But, you know... if someone in Perdan is in need of some tips, Erik is there to say them how to conquer a city. 8)
Quote from: Eduardo Almighty on April 01, 2014, 09:41:29 PM
And certainly impossible, just to say ;)
But, you know... if someone in Perdan is in need of some tips, Erik is there to say them how to conquer a city. 8)
Seriously, I really wonder who that guy was.
I asked many times OOC Nightmare and Nosferatu, none has any idea about what you are talking about since so many months, years.
Are you sure you had that conversation with a Perdanese? I am really curious to know some day the real truth behind this, honestly.
I'm most sure that was Nosferatu... someone with a strange "N" at his name. I certainly should have saved those letters and have done an RP, 'cause I remember perfectly how Erik have laughed at the Council and made a joke about being the real conqueror of Aix. I also do not remember if he was General or King at the time, but I'm sure Erik was Judge Erik. Probably while Margrave of Trinbar.
I'm sure of it 'cause I laughed a lot of the unusual situation. I would never forget something that could embarrass my opponents in a conversation ;D
PS: I would like to know who was the Judge of Perdan at that time, but I'm most sure that was Nosferatu, the guy who sent the letter. I also would like to see the entire timeline... when Perdan took Aix, who was King and who was General? Who was elected as Duke of Aix? Atanamir? I would like to write the RP now to offer to our ECDA.
QuoteApathy. Overconfidence. Bad leadership. Niselur was beaten and begging for mercy. Astrum refused Niselur's terms. Then our general left and everything went to hell.
Should have gotten rid of Sergio first. Fulco tried to talk to him but he never responded...
Quote from: Lapallanch on April 01, 2014, 10:07:15 PM
Should have gotten rid of Sergio first. Fulco tried to talk to him but he never responded...
This is an EC thread, one offhand dwilight comment doesn't mean the subject should be changed, unless the subject is how ALL of the EC should be a Popsicle.
Quote from: Eduardo Almighty on April 01, 2014, 09:50:30 PM
I'm most sure that was Nosferatu... someone with a strange "N" at his name. I certainly should have saved those letters and have done an RP, 'cause I remember perfectly how Erik have laughed at the Council and made a joke about being the real conqueror of Aix. I also do not remember if he was General or King at the time, but I'm sure Erik was Judge Erik. Probably while Margrave of Trinbar.
I'm sure of it 'cause I laughed a lot of the unusual situation. I would never forget something that could embarrass my opponents in a conversation ;D
PS: I would like to know who was the Judge of Perdan at that time, but I'm most sure that was Nosferatu, the guy who sent the letter. I also would like to see the entire timeline... when Perdan took Aix, who was King and who was General? Who was elected as Duke of Aix? Atanamir? I would like to write the RP now to offer to our ECDA.
After putting some research in it, Balkeese was Ruler, Atanamir was General and ][osferatu or Nightmare were Judge. The last position is one of both.
But seriously, I doubt why one of those Perdanese oldies should have asked Erik for help to conquer a city. ???
Especially Nos, he barely talks with us in Perdan, so why should he have spoken with you...lol
Maybe you were drunk? ;) :D
Really should turn EC into a war island. Just for half a year even to see how it changes things ;)
Makes more sense that was a Judge. They had contact by the Judge's Channel.
You can doubt, they really cannot remember, or I was too drunk to the point of dreaming about a crazy story like this. I think the last option is unlikely. My drunk dreams do not involve BM. I also wondered why a Perdanese leadership ask me something, so I laughed so hard. But I gave many good tips. Also, I just realized the inevitable... he asked Erik 'cause he was excellent at what he did. You need some understanding of your fame when you do so much propaganda about yourself. lol 8)
Jokes aside, the truth is that at that time I had a lot of activity as Judge of Sirion. Was much more usual to talk, even with enemies, than it's today. And Sirion was not at war with Perdan at that times. It's funny now, but at the time was commonplace. After Erik, Duncan of Fontan was the best Judge of EC. ;D
Quote from: Atanamir on April 01, 2014, 06:57:36 PM
See, the 5-6 people ingame are elected by many more people.
Why? Because they have obviously some talents. Experience. Leadership. Visions.
So these elected people have much more knowledge in what is best for their realms than most of your forum people.
They are there every day, know the continent, the people who play on it and everything that is relevant to it.
You should have left the discussion therefore better to them, they are much more civil and productive than this forum could ever be.
Instead you come here and complain how bad everything is. Let's cry everyone a bit. But solutions? Nothing.
So again, leave some things ingame to the people who care, know and are competent enough.
Because incompetent people do not get elected in Battlemaster usually. Usually.
Wow... how nice of you to consider that pretty much everyone on the forum is too incompetent to discuss the game.
This entire attitude is so elitist and ridiculously wrong, that I can't even comprehend how you could advocate this, let alone believe. Only the very few people who *currently* have a character as an elected ruler have any right to discuss the state of the game? Only those very few people get to take part in the shaping the play experience for every player in the entire game? You must consider every single player in the game to be nothing more than sheeple who exist for no purpose other than to follow your orders.
Quit talking, go look for the red paper!The people participating on the forum play in these realms every single day, too. They participate in the events that shape the entire game. They are the ones that most acutely feel the effects of the decisions made at the highest political levels. The fact that you think these people should just be quiet and take whatever scraps you let them have is just appalling.
If you don't want to have a productive discussion about the game here on the forum, then don't come here. Let the people who are actually interested in working out solutions to problems, actually do so without your elitist obstructionism.
Quote from: Indirik on April 01, 2014, 11:24:24 PM
Wow... how nice of you to consider that pretty much everyone on the forum is too incompetent to discuss the game.
This entire attitude is so elitist and ridiculously wrong, that I can't even comprehend how you could advocate this, let alone believe. Only the very few people who *currently* have a character as an elected ruler have any right to discuss the state of the game? Only those very few people get to take part in the shaping the play experience for every player in the entire game? You must consider every single player in the game to be nothing more than sheeple who exist for no purpose other than to follow your orders. Quit talking, go look for the red paper!
The people participating on the forum play in these realms every single day, too. They participate in the events that shape the entire game. They are the ones that most acutely feel the effects of the decisions made at the highest political levels. The fact that you think these people should just be quiet and take whatever scraps you let them have is just appalling.
If you don't want to have a productive discussion about the game here on the forum, then don't come here. Let the people who are actually interested in working out solutions to problems, actually do so without your elitist obstructionism.
He's a lost cause Indirik. Just ignore him and get on with the discussion.
If I had a character slot open, I would personally see about starting an underground movement inside Perdan. Sirion I've never seen as a problem, since that realm never seemed to have a need for expansion outside of taking out those who declared war on them.
Yeah, this really doesn't seem to be going anywhere productive. Locked.