Summary: When someone is captured in battle and the capturing unit is later defeated or wiped out in that same battle, the prisoner should be released (or set free) by the victors.
Details: In the battle code, do a simple check for when a unit is defeated or wiped out to see if they were carrying any prisoners, if they were, set them free. Perhaps the chances for escape would be lower or higher depending on which side won the battle.
Benefits: a more realistic outcome when it comes to battlefield expectations for captured prisoners.
Possible Downsides or Exploits: The downside is that the losing party not only lost the battle but they also lost their prisoners. I can't think of any way such a change might be exploited, since being captured or released is entirely out of the control of the player.
This would mean that the losing side won't take any prisoners at all. Perhaps a small change could be made to your request that if the unit retreats to safety then the prisoners taken by that unit aren't affected. Still it'd be a huge downside for the losing party as the situation like I described are quite random.
When someone is captured they're typically dragged off the battlefield while the battle continues, no?
Then it should be that turn of that battle.
Quote from: Sacha on June 05, 2014, 11:35:51 PM
When someone is captured they're typically dragged off the battlefield while the battle continues, no?
There are two possibilities:
1. The capturing unit holds their own prisoners until the battle is over, whereupon all prisoners are transferred to their realm's prison.
OR
2. The capturing unit sends their prisoners to some makeshift holding area for the entire army until the battle is over, whereupon all prisoners are transferred to their realm's prison.
If #1, then when the unit is "wiped out", the prisoners should be set free, because there is no one left in the unit to maintain custody of the prisoners.
If #2, then when the opposing army is defeated, they lose control over all their prisoners. Special Forces should also be given the opportunity to effect a rescue, but that would be a different feature request.
I was explicit in my feature request, but I'll say it again here: this should only count for prisoners captured in the same battle where the capturing unit is later destroyed. Units that are retreating from the battlefield in an organized way are probably not going to lose track of their prisoners.
In case #2 your disclaimer doesn't work. That is, if an army is merely defeated and not entirely wiped out, there's still someone to retreat from the battle in an "organized" way. They may have lost, but that doesn't mean the makeshift area was in their front lines. In the times of this kind of warfare, camps were not really on the battlefield and would still contain people capable of handling prisoners.
Continuing that point, technically only heroes fight with their units. The non-hero nobles would likely lead their units in, give the order, and hang out where their unit was (or in the case of archers, still are). Injuries would happen with arrows (which conveniently can be aimed most places on the battlefield) or when the unit is overwhelmed and the enemy is able to close on that command position faster than the noble can retreat. (I don't think it's possible for a noble to get injured after their unit has somehow been removed from the field.)
Don't get me wrong, I like the "wiped out" portion of this idea, but not the mere "defeated".
Your points may or may not have merit, but seriously consider the roleplaying opportunities that would be curtailed were this the case.
Quote from: Gustav Kuriga on June 06, 2014, 11:09:13 AM
Your points may or may not have merit, but seriously consider the roleplaying opportunities that would be curtailed were this the case.
Can you give me an example of what you're talking about? What would be curtailed exactly?
To me, this is just a question of realism. Nobles already have some chance to escape custody when they are taken prisoner, this just extends that to the battlefield. And maybe an alternative would be to provide for an INCREASE in the chance to escape instead of making escape automatic?
Doesn't this expand opportunity for roleplaying?
Well when I managed to capture a noble despite my unit getting wiped out as a noble of Talerium, I roleplayed myself riding on my horse's flank, so that the enemy wouldn't see me, before quickly knocking the enemy noble out and tying him to the back of my horse, riding away with him back to my lines.
It is an epic feat to capture the enemy by yourself despite having your unit wiped out, and getting rid of that would honestly be a loss. Besides, realism isn't everything. After all, we have instantaneous messaging, are you saying messages should take days or weeks to arrive for the sake of realism? No, you're not.
I would expand on Gustav's point and say that the roleplaying in dungeons is some of the most entertaining I've ever seen, if the Judge is willing to play. It's the lack of anything else interesting to do and the possibility of early release because you're so darn annoying that makes it worthwhile. Making it easier to escape may make the game more active and keep a faster pace, but it removes the "tipping point" of some quieter players to actually write something interesting now that they're not busy reading or following orders.
Quote from: Gustav Kuriga on June 06, 2014, 11:11:05 PM
It is an epic feat to capture the enemy by yourself despite having your unit wiped out, and getting rid of that would honestly be a loss.
It is an epic feat! But is it so epic if this happens every time every time?
I guess what I'm asking for is the increased
possibility of said prisoner escaping when those holding him are all dead.
This has been requested before, rejected before, and extensively discussed before. Please check the archives.
Quote from: Tom on June 08, 2014, 02:02:45 PM
This has been requested before, rejected before, and extensively discussed before. Please check the archives.
Actually, I'm pretty sure that any previous significant discussion of this predates the forum, so they can't check the archives unless you've dug up an old backup of the D-list archives and put them up somewhere public...
Tom's memory is greater than that of the entire forum archive? That is impressive.
I guess if multiple people have requested it but it was rejected once years ago, then there's no merit to thinking about it longer than two seconds, right?
Quote from: Qyasogk on June 09, 2014, 07:32:28 PM
I guess if multiple people have requested it but it was rejected once years ago, then there's no merit to thinking about it longer than two seconds, right?
Not necessarily. Bringing back the War Islands has repeatedly been requested and rejected, yet look at where we are now. :3
Quote from: Qyasogk on June 09, 2014, 07:32:28 PM
Tom's memory is greater than that of the entire forum archive? That is impressive.
I guess if multiple people have requested it but it was rejected once years ago, then there's no merit to thinking about it longer than two seconds, right?
Don't be a jerk.
Snarky sniping at the dev team is certainly not going to get anyone to pay attention to you.
Quote from: Qyasogk on June 09, 2014, 07:32:28 PM
Tom's memory is greater than that of the entire forum archive? That is impressive.
Even if it wasn't, some things stick out. I guarantee this would stick out... nobody likes prison, but it really is a vital part of the game.
Quote from: Indirik on June 09, 2014, 10:55:13 PM
Don't be a jerk.
Ummm, that was a
bit of an overreaction to a valid point. But I guess you see so much of that here you can't help but immediately stomp to death on anything you think is jerk behavior. You just might want to dial it down a tad.
Quote from: Qyasogk on June 10, 2014, 10:29:23 PM
Ummm, that was a bit of an overreaction to a valid point.
However valid the underlying point may have been, it was made in a very sarcastic, passive-aggressive manner. You came across sounding like a jerk.
Quote
But I guess you see so much of that here you can't help but immediately stomp to death on anything you think is jerk behavior. You just might want to dial it down a tad.
You might want to dial down on the passive-aggressive behaviour toward the dev team, too. While I'm perfectly willing to admit that I'm not always as patient as I could be with players, that doesn't mean that I'm not
very patient with a lot of really crappy behaviour.
If you want to stand out in the crowd, and be the one we pay (positive) attention to, then a really, really
bad way to do it is to come at us with sarcasm and an attitude that you get to tell us how to do our jobs.
I apologize if I came off sounding like a jerk. I think I am maybe more easy going and playfull than what you guys are used to dealing with.
I must say as someone who's now been around here for over a year, the worst experiences I've had interacting with others in these forums have always been over-aggressive moderators, stomping down on every lively conversation, locking a thread rather than letting your users talk things out.
Certainly when I created this thread I only wanted to bring up a suggestion. How you guys respond to these suggestions is sometimes less than awesome. I prefer to reply with snark and humor rather than indignation and insult.
Quote from: Qyasogk on June 11, 2014, 03:14:49 AM
I apologize if I came off sounding like a jerk. I think I am maybe more easy going and playfull than what you guys are used to dealing with.
I must say as someone who's now been around here for over a year, the worst experiences I've had interacting with others in these forums have always been over-aggressive moderators, stomping down on every lively conversation, locking a thread rather than letting your users talk things out.
Certainly when I created this thread I only wanted to bring up a suggestion. How you guys respond to these suggestions is sometimes less than awesome. I prefer to reply with snark and humor rather than indignation and insult.
That is because first) people can never talk things out on the forum. Moderators learned that and now will just shut down before anything crazy begins to surface. second) if you let people talk things out they will always say the same thing because this is internet and there is no such thing as discussion and debate. You just scream(in this case CAP) whatever you want and completely ignore what the other person says.