If you have a character on the East Continent you may be familiar with what happened. Pretty much a Sirion noble bought the city of Krimml, and my character was the duke before that. My character got transferred as a noble of Westmoor to a noble of Sirion. I had a decent amount of bonds, and I don't know if it is a bug or not that I lost them. I could see arguments for both keeping them and losing them, but I am hoping that if it wasn't a bug and I was supposed to lose them then they at least go back to Westmoor through the tax system as extra income. Could anyway clarify what happens exactly?
Any time you change realms, your bonds go *poof*.
Bonds are issued by the government of a particular realm. Anywhere else, they're nothing but pieces of paper.
Ah well, it's too bad that all nobles, no matter what, must immediately destroy all their bonds whenever they change realms for some reason. Or maybe the bonds are magically linked to their allegiance, and can telepathically tell when to self destruct. lololol
Quote from: Artemesia on June 07, 2011, 03:35:39 AM
Ah well, it's too bad that all nobles, no matter what, must immediately destroy all their bonds whenever they change realms for some reason. Or maybe the bonds are magically linked to their allegiance, and can telepathically tell when to self destruct. lololol
The bankers (NPCs) keep track of the allegiances of nobles, and as soon as one leaves the realm, they immediately (and with great relish) order all his bonds forfeit, and confiscated by the bank.
Quote from: Anaris on June 07, 2011, 04:14:48 AM
The bankers (NPCs) keep track of the allegiances of nobles, and as soon as one leaves the realm, they immediately (and with great relish) order all his bonds forfeit, and confiscated by the bank.
Sounds like the were trained by the Templars
All those involved in the tax system are freakishly skilled. It is a wonder why we don't make them fight our wars. If they were utilized for battle I bet we would have lost not a single region to the invaders in BT's 4th Inv. They can reach you whether you're in prison, you forcibly went to sleep in a faraway land, you have outstanding taxes to pay. Man, and you wonder why realms like Enweil and Hetland complained about NPCs being OP. If you ever let taxmen be an NPC type then you'll see realms simply ragequit all over the place.
So did they go to Westmoor as taxes?
Quote from: MaleMaldives on June 07, 2011, 06:56:40 AM
So did they go to Westmoor as taxes?
I believe it should show up in the old realm's "other taxes".
But is it a bug that the character changed realm? The knights should, I think, but it seems weird for the Duke.
Quote from: MaleMaldives on June 07, 2011, 06:56:40 AM
So did they go to Westmoor as taxes?
Quote from: Foundation on June 07, 2011, 08:08:45 AM
I believe it should show up in the old realm's "other taxes".
No, and no.
Like I said, they go *poof*. They vanish into thin air. They are gone. Unrecoverable. Claimed by the NPC bankers to pad their own pockets.
Quote from: vonGenf on June 07, 2011, 12:08:09 PM
But is it a bug that the character changed realm? The knights should, I think, but it seems weird for the Duke.
The Duke loses his title, but will then still be aligned to the region as a simple estate-less Noble. And since the region switched allegiances, the former Duke does too.
A region cannot be bought so long as the region lord still holds office. So in order for them to have bought the region, they must have first kicked out the duke somehow. The former duke may still have had the court rank of duke, but he wasn't the duke of the city. As Telrunya says, the former duke would be a "noble" of the region. No oath and no estate, but still aligned to the region, just as the knights. The fact that he used to the duke is of no consequence when the region switches realms.
Quote from: Anaris on June 07, 2011, 01:37:09 PM
No, and no.
Like I said, they go *poof*. They vanish into thin air. They are gone. Unrecoverable. Claimed by the NPC bankers to pad their own pockets.
What... okay, so when you pause your bonds are "given back" but when you leave they "vanish". :P
A paused character is not leaving the realm. IC, a paused character still exists, is still alive, and is still a member of the realm. They are just not being actively played. Which is a concept that does not exist IC.
Quote from: Indirik on June 07, 2011, 02:34:08 PM
A region cannot be bought so long as the region lord still holds office. So in order for them to have bought the region, they must have first kicked out the duke somehow. The former duke may still have had the court rank of duke, but he wasn't the duke of the city. As Telrunya says, the former duke would be a "noble" of the region. No oath and no estate, but still aligned to the region, just as the knights. The fact that he used to the duke is of no consequence when the region switches realms.
That makes sense, thanks.
Quote from: Indirik on June 07, 2011, 04:23:01 PM
A paused character is not leaving the realm. IC, a paused character still exists, is still alive, and is still a member of the realm. They are just not being actively played. Which is a concept that does not exist IC.
I see, though the banker takes your bonds... what a mean guy, he takes the bonds of those who are still in the realm and just rips apart those going away. 8)
The is a difference between the Banker and the bankers. One is a useful political ally; the others are generally better at counting. :)
There are only one cases where the Banker gets the money: A region has no lord on tax day. Other than that, the bonds/gold go into the realm tax pool, not directly to a player.
Quote from: Indirik on June 07, 2011, 02:34:08 PM
A region cannot be bought so long as the region lord still holds office. So in order for them to have bought the region, they must have first kicked out the duke somehow. The former duke may still have had the court rank of duke, but he wasn't the duke of the city. As Telrunya says, the former duke would be a "noble" of the region. No oath and no estate, but still aligned to the region, just as the knights. The fact that he used to the duke is of no consequence when the region switches realms.
O I thought I as still duke of the city at that time it was bought. I was recently caught and put in prison though. Do you lose your titles when put in prison right away?
Sometimes.
Isn't that weird then if it is random if you lose your titles or not, or do you mean it depends on the title? I was only in prison for about a day.
It is random whether or not you lose a title. If you lose a title due to imprisonment, it will happen immediately.
Quote from: Anaris on June 07, 2011, 01:37:09 PM
No, and no.
Like I said, they go *poof*. They vanish into thin air. They are gone. Unrecoverable. Claimed by the NPC bankers to pad their own pockets.
Would be nice if they actually did go to the realms "other income" bit. These days there's just too many situations where people end up in realms when they had no desire for it and then the realm just loses all the bonds. Bonds are after all supposed to be a very secure form of holding on to money and it's not like it disappears from the realms bank.
Quote from: LilWolf on June 07, 2011, 09:53:54 PM
Would be nice if they actually did go to the realms "other income" bit. These days there's just too many situations where people end up in realms when they had no desire for it and then the realm just loses all the bonds. Bonds are after all supposed to be a very secure form of holding on to money and it's not like it disappears from the realms bank.
I would agree to this. I my mind the bond system we have is basically underwritten by the realm. In this case the realm would simply seize the bond assets of the noble that was leaving, and put them back into the wider circulation. If it was known that there are several situations where the bankers simply seize the gold that the bonds represent, to me that would cause the nobility to lose faith in the system and move away from it.
Quote from: Indirik on June 07, 2011, 06:19:19 PM
There are only one cases where the Banker gets the money: A region has no lord on tax day. Other than that, the bonds/gold go into the realm tax pool, not directly to a player.
Ah, I meant "take your bonds for the realm". It'd be awesome if the Banker could just manipulate the bonds market, but alas that is not the case.
Wow, that's...incredibly unlucky. You're imprisoned, lose your title, have your city bought away from you during the single day you're in jail and then lose all your bonds? That would suck. Considerably.
Quote from: Velax on June 08, 2011, 08:16:15 AM
Wow, that's...incredibly unlucky. You're imprisoned, lose your title, have your city bought away from you during the single day you're in jail and then lose all your bonds? That would suck. Considerably.
Indeed, I've now added this to things I want to do to my enemies.
Quote from: Indirik on June 07, 2011, 02:34:08 PM
A region cannot be bought so long as the region lord still holds office. So in order for them to have bought the region, they must have first kicked out the duke somehow. The former duke may still have had the court rank of duke, but he wasn't the duke of the city. As Telrunya says, the former duke would be a "noble" of the region. No oath and no estate, but still aligned to the region, just as the knights. The fact that he used to the duke is of no consequence when the region switches realms.
I would like to hear some more about this. Would being injured by an infiltrator be the same as losing the Duke position? Because I know for a fact that this is what happened in the Cagilan/Carelian war - Duke was injured by infiltrator, then the region was bought (probably about 1 day afterward).
Quote from: Bael on June 08, 2011, 09:11:43 AM
I would like to hear some more about this. Would being injured by an infiltrator be the same as losing the Duke position? Because I know for a fact that this is what happened in the Cagilan/Carelian war - Duke was injured by infiltrator, then the region was bought (probably about 1 day afterward).
You can lose your position from being wounded, just like you can lose it from being captured. It is a random thing, sometimes it happens sometimes it doesn't. It seems like it used to happen a lot more a few years ago. but that could just be the effect of time.
Losing your position from being wounded and losing it from being imprisoned happen in different ways. If you are imprisoned, you will either lose your title immediately or not at all. If you are wounded, then it takes time to lose your title. You have to be wounded over a certain level for a certain number of days. Then you have a chance to lose it after that number of days. (I don't remember the number of days.)
I think it may still be possible, though, to instantly lose a lordship from an infiltrator attack, if you hit hard enough. Not sure...
Quote from: Indirik on June 08, 2011, 02:12:07 PM
I think it may still be possible, though, to instantly lose a lordship from an infiltrator attack, if you hit hard enough. Not sure...
Is there any IC explanation for that? I have trouble seeing a Noble lose his position for being the victim of an attack.
I'm not sure about lordship, but council, definitely. Maybe it's a low chance?
The way this would make sense is if rumors got strong that this guy was dead. Since the guy's dead, might as well vacate the position. Even though he's not really dead-dead, because that doesn't happen due to infiltrator attacks, the invisible NPCs who influence BM in all aspects behind the scenes (You know, game code manifested as the minor nobility, the peasants, the court advisors, etc) don't know that. Even if the act isn't seen, the body's still there and someone is going to find it. Rumors will spread about what happened to that person, and if they get blown out of proportion and among the right audience, then the nobility might really think that guy's dead and find a new guy to replace him.
Later, the guy can come back and say he's alive and well and wants his position back.
Quote from: Shizzle on June 08, 2011, 11:05:12 PMIs there any IC explanation for that? I have trouble seeing a Noble lose his position for being the victim of an attack.
IC? Well, a noble who is wounded for too long can't fulfill his duties and responsibilities.
OOC, it's to help allow some circulation among those in power. Otherwise every position in the game would be taken, and the only way you could move up in the world is if someone above you quits/dies. While that may be "realistic", it sucks for a game. New players would be stuck as peons for years, waiting on attrition to allow them to advance.
More simply IC: "We thought you were dead!"
Medieval medicine in Europe sucked.