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BattleMaster => Locals => Far East Island => Topic started by: Siren on August 15, 2011, 09:17:49 PM
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I've been readings a lot of football articles ranking Premier league teams lately. It got me thinking, what would a power ranking of the realms look like? If you have to combine CS, influence, size, recent battle won and lost...
In my opinion:
1. Arcaea
2. Arcachon
3. Principality of Zonasa
4. Kindara
5. Cathay
6. C'thonia
7. Greater Aenilia
8. Ohnar West
Feel free to give explanations as well.
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C'thonia is definitely #8
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I'd move Arcachon to #1 and Ohnar West up a few notches too. Both have religious leaders from religions with a large amount of followers I'm not sure how big MAE is, but where ever their leaders are, that realm should move up a notch too.
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Anyone ranking Zonasa at #3 should probably know that they assaulted Talex with ~5k defenders, only to have their ~11k force arrive over the span of 36 hours as they were beaten back in disgrace.
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C'thonia should be at the bottom.
Zonasa needs to be lower, their mlitary is a mess. As are their regions. A lot of players does not a good realm make :P
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So,wait, what you're all saying is that the chart should look like this:
1. Arcaea
2. Arcachon
3. Kindara
4. Cathay
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8. Principality of Zonasa/C'thonia/Greater Aenilia/Ohnar West
Right?
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I'd move Arcachon to #1 and Ohnar West up a few notches too.
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Ohnar West go up a few ranks? Yeah, we should totally move the realm up who got stomped into the ground, repeatedly, by a much smaller realm to the point where they almost surrendered, in addition to having their own capital sacked. You're funny.
Out of curiosity, why are people putting Kindara so high?
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Out of curiosity, why are people putting Kindara so high?
Shhh, they might leave it alone if you don't draw attention to it! >_<
Really though, Kindara's not that great but it's not that bad, either. Midway is a fair spot, I think.
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Principality of Zonasa's military is overrated, they don't use it. Which is why Sayuki went to Arcaea.
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This could be really fun to do for each continent.
Come up with a few "stats" to rank by like you were suggesting such as CS, influence, etc. score the realms, then rank 'em.
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This could be really fun to do for each continent.
Thats what I was thinking...but I figured try the FEI first. I knew it would stir up some controversy here lol
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I'm biased, but I'd but the order as:
1. Cathay (they are the only nation walking out with anything like a win)
2. Arcaea (it's still big, but it's got serious long-term issues it needs to work out)
3. Arcachon (easily the most tight-knit bunch of mistfits around)
4. Kindara (Not good, not bad)
5. Aenelia (Got stomped, at least it has a plan and some leadership)
6. Zonasa (just a trainwreck, should be so much better)
7. Ohnar West (really need to thank C'thonia)
8. C'thonia (essentially Arcachon without the religion to keep it ticking)
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I haven't been on FEI in many years now.... what happened to GA!?
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duchesses and kings and roleplay
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I haven't been on FEI in many years now.... what happened to GA!?
apathy
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There is no possible way that Arcachon is at the number one spot, nor Cathay. And anyone saying Arcaea's walking out of the war with Aenilia and the rest of the south at anything less than a major win doesn't understand that that was the war to try and stop Arcaea from seriously expanding.
Similarly, while Arcachon has done well, there is no way it could be ranked at number one. They (admittedly just barely) missed their chance to knock out OW and seriously kick Arcaea down a peg, but they did miss it.
The only potential contender with Arcaea for the number one spot is Zonasa, their last campaign up north aside, as they have a better diplomatic position than Arcaea.
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As something of a young'un on FEI, just a few comments.
People seem to have a lot of confident in Arcachon's ability to punch above its weight. Their income is barely more than half that of Cathay, PoZ, or Kindara. And they're about to go toe to toe with Arcaea, which is substantially bigger again.
I'm suprised Zonasa is rated so lowly. Humilating defeats aside, they're still second in terms of nobles and more-or-less equal second with Cathay by income. Aenilla is a nice meatshield against Arcaea and they've got good natural defences against Cathay. Only their allies in Kindara could actually hurt them without a lot of work.
Also, why does C'thonia even still exist. One city and two rural regions is just... painful.
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I haven't been on FEI in many years now.... what happened to GA!?
They picked a fight with a much larger realm and their allies weren't enough to prop them up.
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AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Ohnar West go up a few ranks?
So religion plays absolutely no part in power in the Far East? Selene, Veleno and Joseph are elders in their respective faiths, I think Vulpes is also a high ranking follower in The Church of Sartan. Iceberg (before he went away) is also fairly influential in Adgharinism. Surely those characters can wield a bit of power with their followers?
People seem to have a lot of confident in Arcachon's ability to punch above its weight. Their income is barely more than half that of Cathay, PoZ, or Kindara. And they're about to go toe to toe with Arcaea, which is substantially bigger again.
I think it's the sea routes, it makes it difficult for people to get over them from either way. Arcachon just seem to be doing better at it, making it look like they're punching above their weight. If they had a land connection, I'm fairly certain they'd be gone by now.
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Ohnar West is as or more religious than Arcachon, if you ask me. Not limited to one but the religions there play a big part. Iceberg controlled a fair portion of votes in Ohnar West's senate due to religion and for religion. Joseph had the same support when I was there. Before my characters left OW, the north and east duchies were predominantly Adgharins while the southern two duchies were Sartanians, and that was clear even when everyone was working together. And while OW certainly isn't up to too much now, they are the second largest realm on the FEI (Arcaea being #1, of course) with their longest border shared with their allies in Arcaea, their southern border shared with their allies in Cathay and their northern border shared by the realm that I expect to be formerly known as Arcachon. Selene's proven to be at least somewhat adept in her job given the peace in the south and their allies marching north. They're reclaiming their territory and managed to hold on.
OW was in a better position, it seems to me, when we took Papania than they are now, but the facts remain that they've survived as the second largest and are looking at seeing their borders properly secured. I could go by instinct which tells me right now to give them a low rating, but compared to GA's retreat from Nahad or C'thornia's vast bulk, OW probably deserves better than seven or eight.
My thoughts for the afternoon.
Finton.
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Selene's proven to be at least somewhat adept in her job given the peace in the south and their allies marching north. They're reclaiming their territory and managed to hold on.
The current treaty between OW and Arcachon was offered by Arcachon for one reason only: Arcaea is coming back north. Were it not for that, the peace offer from Arcachon would have been something like their previous offer: Surrender the Akanos duchy to Arcachon. No offense to the player of Selene, but his political skills have little to nothing to do with the current cease-fire. Likewise, peace with GA is because GA got their asses kicked by Arcaea, and are in no shape to go after OW. Even if Arcaea would let them.
OW was in a better position, it seems to me, when we took Papania than they are now, but the facts remain that they've survived as the second largest and are looking at seeing their borders properly secured. I could go by instinct which tells me right now to give them a low rating, but compared to GA's retreat from Nahad or C'thornia's vast bulk, OW probably deserves better than seven or eight.
As a current member of OW, and Marshal of OW's sole army, I completely agree with the bottom-of-the-pile ranking for OW.
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So religion plays absolutely no part in power in the Far East? Selene, Veleno and Joseph are elders in their respective faiths, I think Vulpes is also a high ranking follower in The Church of Sartan. Iceberg (before he went away) is also fairly influential in Adgharinism. Surely those characters can wield a bit of power with their followers?
Wielding religious power inside your own realm by no means equates to wielding military power outside of it. Have you not had that proved to you repeatedly over the past few months? If anything, having competing religions, including two that I believe are sworn to destroy each other, cripples you even more than you would be anyway.
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Wielding religious power inside your own realm by no means equates to wielding military power outside of it. Have you not had that proved to you repeatedly over the past few months?
Nope, because I've used Veleno's position as elder in Adgharinism to get quite a few details out of people (mostly non-military because she's a pacifist, but the odd bit about armies). I'm pretty sure Selene has done the same.
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Wait. I'm not on the FE and all, but... pacifist?
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Well, I'm glad you were able to use that information to stop your nobles squabbling like children long enough to unite against an enemy burning your lands to the ground, prevent your realm from being pulverised by said enemy that's a fraction of your size, stop your capital being sacked and turn Ohnar West into more than a military joke. Oh, wait...
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You're assuming that he wants to do any of that stuff.
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Also, why does C'thonia even still exist. One city and two rural regions is just... painful.
I'm not sure how the tax rate works these days. In the old days, a small realm like that could drive an almost 25% taxrate (maximum at the time), while a realm with 3 duchies would have about 13%. In that way, the smaller ones could actually compete somewhat with larger realms.
Avamar and Rancagua hung on for a long time on EC despite being "just... painful" ;) Atleast in Avamar this was a major reason why.
Speaking of that, Is there any bonus these days so that small realms have a chance to challenge atleast medium realms? (except sea routes like Arcachon ;))
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Wait. I'm not on the FE and all, but... pacifist?
She prefers not to have her realm at war with anyone. No quarrels with helping out an ally in need (supplying a few troops to help defend), but just keep the fighting away from her realm's regions and she's happy - mainly because it means she has less work to do in order to "correct those silly bureaucrats, farmers, merchants and police". Not one of those silly "let's all be friends and hold hands" pacifists :P
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Speaking of that, Is there any bonus these days so that small realms have a chance to challenge atleast medium realms?
Yes. ;)
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Wait. I'm not on the FE and all, but... pacifist?
A religious elder is arguing for his co-religionist not to fight against each other... nothing wrong there.
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The number of bonuses smaller realms have is...Kinda astounding to me. Mildly annoying as well, as I think the bonuses combine with the penalties for large realms in a way that is rather unfortunate.
Ohnar West would be ranked higher if they did not have such crippling internal issues. The near-civil-war status between the Sartanian and Adgharist camps is basically why Arcachon pummeled them so effectively, and why they are lower ranked in my mind.
Here's what my order would look like:
Arcaea (noble count, very large once regions reclaimed and population in Topenah rebuilds, not bad diplomatic situation, just won the crucial, crucial war to the south that might have broken it)
Zonasa (large, very good diplomatic situation)
Kindara (reasonable size, very good diplomatic situation)
Cathay (large, not horrible diplomatic situation)
Aenilia (reasonable size, badly pummeled, reasonable diplomatic situation)
Ohnar West (large, crippling internal problems, reasonable diplomatic situation and wars defused to give time to recover)
Arcachon (proven military, good geographic position (though this is weakened by the new delay arrival feature), now completely isolated diplomatically while being at war with Arcaea)
C'thonia (small, just got the crap kicked out of it, bad diplomatic situation)
Now, I anticipate that much of this will change in the relatively near future, but I'm fairly confident in that ranking.
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Delay Arrival doesn't work over seaways.
Let the endless siege of Arcachon commence!
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The number of bonuses smaller realms have is...Kinda astounding to me. Mildly annoying as well, as I think the bonuses combine with the penalties for large realms in a way that is rather unfortunate.
Could you be so kind as to elaborate on exactly what bonuses smaller realms have? And the penalties of the larger ones?
I was in Cathay when they attacked C'thonia. They didn't stand a chance, even with 2 cities. Of course, it might also be a badly run realm and not be related to this at all :)
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Am I committting apostasy when I say cities are much less important then cohesion?
I think the big realm gripe is unwarranted though, as the whole point is to stop from having one realm rule an entire land, which is gotta be vexing if that's your goal, but is good for overall gameplay. Of course, I'd love to see 50 lines of code written so there could be an elector-states/japan kind of emporer with limited powers who officiated wars between clans only nominally subservient to him, but it's probably a pipe dream unless there are people who reall, really love FEI and have nothing like estates or economy to code.
Sorry to say, but Arcachon probably isn't going to pull a C'thonia and get ROFLstomped in a month or two. I'd prefer if it was, oddly, because I hate sieges, but both sides think they win in a waiting game.
Ugh.
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Delay Arrival doesn't work over seaways.
Let the endless siege of Arcachon commence!
Does it not? How odd. I wonder why...Still, that's why we can march through Nbasah and sail to Ecsetuah.
And I don't expect Arcachon to be ROFLstomped. It'll be an annoying, nasty war unless one of the various intrigues work. But, the key thing is, Arcachon has been diplomatically isolated and there's really no one who can come to their rescue this time like Aenilia/Zonasa/Kindara did before.
C'thonia was in poor shape before Cathay attacked, as they were incapable of even holding the regions they had without revolts. I don't know why that is, but it surprised no one that they got rolled over.
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C'thonia was in poor shape before Cathay attacked, as they were incapable of even holding the regions they had without revolts. I don't know why that is, but it surprised no one that they got rolled over.
I think Edairn has spent more time rogue than under any one banner since the island opened. It's not just C'thonia. Same for Apasur up where you guys are.
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Could well be. I don't recall Soliferum/Mosesadelphia having problems holding Edairn, but Apasur (and Skizzard on the EC) I'm quite familiar with.
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To sum everyone up:
8. Arcaea
8. Arcachon
8. Principality of Zonasa
8. Kindara
8. Cathay
8. C'thonia
8. Greater Aenilia
8. Ohnar West
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To sum everyone up:
8. Arcaea
8. Arcachon
8. Principality of Zonasa
8. Kindara
8. Cathay
8. C'thonia
8. Greater Aenilia
13. Ohnar West
There.
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Am I committting apostasy when I say cities are much less important then cohesion?
No. The only reason Arcachon's low on my list is the diplomatic isolation. Without taking diplomacy into consideration, I'd call it Arcaea, Zonasa, Arcachon for the top three.
I think the big realm gripe is unwarranted though, as the whole point is to stop from having one realm rule an entire land, which is gotta be vexing if that's your goal, but is good for overall gameplay. Of course, I'd love to see 50 lines of code written so there could be an elector-states/japan kind of emporer with limited powers who officiated wars between clans only nominally subservient to him, but it's probably a pipe dream unless there are people who reall, really love FEI and have nothing like estates or economy to code.
Tom's planned changes to hierarchy will, in theory, allow a level beyond realms. And, of course, you can RP something like that...As I plan to ;)
Also, are you sure delay arrival doesn't work over sea routes? Because I just checked on the dev server and it looks like it should.
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So, I spent a few minutes trying to formulate a few stats into a numerical system in which we could generically rank realms.
1. Noble Count/Region Count: The first category would divide the realm's noble count by their region giving them a score. The higher, the better (these days, at least).
2. Combat Strength: The realm's CS as determined by the statistics page (perhaps this is not an accurate or good way to do it, but it is really the only way I know how...) One point for every 10,000 CS.
3. Diplomatic Score: The most subjective stat. Will basically be an opinion based on the scorer taking the diplomatic situation of the realm and continent into consideration. Score on levels from 1-5.
4. Realm Income: One point for every 1,000 gold.
So, using this basic and primitive system. The Far East would look like this:
1. Arcaea (3.5/2.6/5/5.8 ): 16.9
2. Zonasa (3.5/1.1/4/4.5): 13.1
3. Cathay (2.6/1.7/3/4.4): 11.7
3. Kindara (2.7/1.1/4/3.9): 11.7
4. Arcachon (4.3/1.2/2/2.6): 10.1
5. Greater Aenillia (3.2/0.4/3/2.4): 9
6. Ohnar West (2/1.4/2/3.3): 8.7
7. C'thonia (5.6/0.5/1/1.2): 8.3
The results seems to hold pretty steady with what everyone was generally saying. Perhaps the big outlier is that Cathay and Kindara tied for third and beat out Arcachon. Though, this I believe is attributed to the fact that Arcachon's latest CS strength record seem a bit low. Perhaps it was just after a battle or something. The CS is recorded every 4 days, so keep that in mind. However, I think it would be neat to update the power rankings perhaps once a month or maybe twice a month.
If we can find a good system. Perhaps tweak this one a bit, make it word better, etc. I would be happy to run Power Rankings for each continent.
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On paper Zonasa has a strong military, but their leadership and cohesion are abysmal.
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You need a fifth category:
Geography.
I would suggest giving a 0, 1, or 2 for geographic advantages: 0 meaning "no advantages," 1 meaning "moderate advantages" (Arcaea's homeland?), 2 meaning "Arcachonian advantages"
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Unless the code has recently changed, yeah, yeah, delay arrival doesn't work over sea routes.
Nothing like 30+ letters per turn trying to organize the invasion of Nbasah (twice). Hellish, just hellish, but damn did it feel good when everyone arrived on time. The winter assault was the worst, it was five straight turns of correspondance.
Marine assaults are supposed to be difficult though, and the real problem is that there is an increaseed variance factor on sea travel (+/- about 40%).
There are so many inrigues running both ways that everyone knows that's how this sort of war ends. Hey, I'm now three for three in running rebellions, so maybe I can just replace some of those southern kings with more tractable lords.
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On paper Zonasa has a strong military, but their leadership and cohesion are abysmal.
I agree (I play in Zonasa, lol) however I don't have much of an objective way to measure these kinds of things. For instance, I know this about Zonasa, but I really have no clue what the command structures are really like in other realms.
You need a fifth category:
Geography.
I would suggest giving a 0, 1, or 2 for geographic advantages: 0 meaning "no advantages," 1 meaning "moderate advantages" (Arcaea's homeland?), 2 meaning "Arcachonian advantages"
Not a bad idea.
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3. Diplomatic Score: The most subjective stat. Will basically be an opinion based on the scorer taking the diplomatic situation of the realm and continent into consideration. Score on levels from 1-5.
If I may...All the rest are fairly hard numbers, but this one is much harder, and I would posit different numbers than you put. I'd say Zonasa, Kindara, and Aenilia are all 4's, Cathay and Ohnar West are 3's, Arcaea is a 2, and C'thonia and Arcachon are 1's. The first three have real alliances that actually work, the next two have paper alliances with each other and Arcaea that are much weaker, Arcaea has a reasonable one with OW and a terrible one with Cathay in addition to being the glaring target, and C'thonia and Arcachon have both been effectively isolated from all outside help.
Geography is also important, but I'd argue that it has to be correlated with diplomatic status. I.e. to attack Zonasa without going through a good ally, you have to go through a city, a fortress, or some mountains. Not fun at all.
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Average Region Conditions should also be considered. Who's in a better position? A realm with 2 cities and 2 other regions that are all well maintained and well fed or a realm with 2 cities, a stronghold, 3+ other regions, and half are starving or about to go rogue?
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Depends. OW's regions are in crap shape right now, but they're also not at war with anyone or likely to be at war with anyone who can take advantage of that.
Also, Heq, can you double-check? It works fine on the dev server, and the guy who coded it confirms that it's supposed to work over sea routes. I did notice when I was doing my checking that the button did not appear after you clicked the region to travel to, so you had to go to the Travel page again where it appeared and worked fine.
If it's still not working, then we have ourselves a gen-u-ine bug.
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Depends. OW's regions are in crap shape right now, but they're also not at war with anyone or likely to be at war with anyone who can take advantage of that.
That's the primary reason Aenilia pulled out of the war. Regions were crap and going rogue and everyone was starving. Easier to deal with when you're not fighting a war.
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Which is pretty much exactly what Jenred was hoping for. Yes, taking more land would have been nice, but that would have been a bonus, and far outweighed by the gains in the factional politics of Kindara and Cathay by being eminently reasonable.
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That's the primary reason Aenilia pulled out of the war. Regions were crap and going rogue and everyone was starving. Easier to deal with when you're not fighting a war.
Well, I'd say the primary reason was because you were having your asses handed to you constantly, your allies weren't strong enough to defend you anymore and were, in fact, threatening rather extreme measures if you didn't come to the peace table. If your regions were going rogue, it was because Arcaea was making them go rogue. ;)
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If your regions were going rogue, it was because Arcaea was making them go rogue. ;)
Not a whole lotta Arcaean action in Iposez.
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We captured the duchess, causing her to lose her position, and you for whatever reason failed to appoint another one. And our attacks likely prevented you from going to aid the region when it showed signs of going rogue. Not to mention we prevented you from retaking it until the peace was signed.
Seriously, though, let's not start this, "We totally could have kept fighting if not for our regions" bull!@#$. You want to say that IC, fine, but don't pull that crap OOC. You lost that war, badly, and it was not because your regions were independently going rogue. It's only because Jenred wanted to look reasonable, and because Ohnar is a terrible military ally, that you didn't lose the territory you should have.
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Only One Dutchess?
Pshaw, Ohnar West lost, what, three Dukes and a Prime Minister and they still kept taking a beating like a champ. I'll give the delay arrival feature on seaways a test-drive again, and I'll keep things posted.
It really isn't feature anyone else used, so I always assumed it was deliberately coded that way. It may have just been acting wonky those two times, because I haven't checked it since.
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We captured the duchess, causing her to lose her position, and you for whatever reason failed to appoint another one. And our attacks likely prevented you from going to aid the region when it showed signs of going rogue. Not to mention we prevented you from retaking it until the peace was signed.
Seriously, though, let's not start this, "We totally could have kept fighting if not for our regions" bull!@#$. You want to say that IC, fine, but don't pull that crap OOC. You lost that war, badly, and it was not because your regions were independently going rogue. It's only because Jenred wanted to look reasonable, and because Ohnar is a terrible military ally, that you didn't lose the territory you should have.
/shrug
I wasn't there for any of the last battles, as I paused my char there believing that the bug preventing me from playing all of my characters would be resolved quickly. It hasn't been, and so I'm still paused in Aenilia. That said, Iposez had nothing to do with you capturing anyone, and Arcaea at the time was engaged in a staring contest over Ornaz. It went rogue because King Guy took a week to appoint a new lord after he was "promoted". Anything after that I have no idea about, although if you want to compare military allies we could talk about Zonasa's "assault" on Talex.
Getting back on topic, I'd rate Arcaea's "diplomacy" score more highly as long as Jenred remains alive, as well as point out that the geography scores that Vellos proposed wouldn't really change anything in Perth's rankings.
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Getting back on topic, I'd rate Arcaea's "diplomacy" score more highly as long as Jenred remains alive
Agreed, Arcaea really need a risk modifier in there for Jenred. If he ever disappeared, it wouldn't surprise me if they fell into disarray for a while. The only person I can see replacing him (as an outsider) is Maurus Barek and even then he wouldn't have all the weight of Jenred.
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We captured the duchess, causing her to lose her position, and you for whatever reason failed to appoint another one. And our attacks likely prevented you from going to aid the region when it showed signs of going rogue. Not to mention we prevented you from retaking it until the peace was signed.
Seriously, though, let's not start this, "We totally could have kept fighting if not for our regions" bull!@#$. You want to say that IC, fine, but don't pull that crap OOC. You lost that war, badly, and it was not because your regions were independently going rogue. It's only because Jenred wanted to look reasonable, and because Ohnar is a terrible military ally, that you didn't lose the territory you should have.
Nobody's making IC arguments, and nobody's claiming "we could have kept fighting". Same can be said for your pushy arrogance on here- is that IC or OOC? Same comparison can be made for Zonasa as you made with Ohnar. Had Zonasa (and Kindara, for that matter) moved decisively and together with us, and our own nobles actually cared enough to leave the capital, Talex and Larmebsi really were easy picking. Especially after Ohnar threw in the towel before we did, guaranteeing Cathay kept well away. Ask Jenred how many conversations we had on the side- both threatening, postulating, and negotiating. I even contacted Brian in Cathay hoping to fend off any push they might be making.
Truth is, Aenilia pulled out because someone (read: me) stepped up and said fighting a war we can't win, expecting our allies to save us, ignoring our own regions, and having at best 5 active nobles fielding units at any given time was a horrible idea. Its nobles (largely, anyway) are lazy and apathetic and the only time you hear them talk is if someone tells them to do something they don't want to do. When I arrived, its council collectively said 1 thing IC for the first 3 weeks I was there. Banker autopaused. Ruler quit. General finally just stepped down. Guy du (former Duke of Ipsosez) hadn't been back to the stronghold in a few weeks (wartime got us there), then got elected as King and never appointed anyone to replace him or in Ornaz. Both regions revolt on the same turn, Nahad is sacked, Arella protests against the entire world or something, and then things get settled on the diplomatic end.
I won't say we didn't get our asses handed to us. That was going on long before I came back and was still part of the realm's nature even at treaty time. But don't tell me regions (outside of Ornaz) went rogue or were starving because of anything except piss poor management by the ruler/banker/regional lords. Go toot your own horn IC- it's acceptable there. :P
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Bah, enough arguing about the war, already. I love me some good posturing in-game, but here it's just annoying.
Regarding Jenred and diplomacy: Yes, he adds a fair bit to Arcaea's diplomacy score while at the same time being a major risk factor if anything happens to him. That said, I could probably name one person in every other realm on the continent where if they disappeared the dynamics of the realm would change drastically. If Jenred got taken out in the short term, there would be no difficulties. Edara can serve as a figurehead for long enough for him to recover from whatever it is, and Velax is more than capable of keeping things running in the interim.
If you want to factor longer term power (read, next...Six months to a year) into account, of course, that's another story entirely, and Jenred's personal influence on the power rankings shoots way, way up.
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Sorry, Bedwyr. I'm too easily annoyed to let things go.
But you're right about the duchess of Ipsosez, Morningstar. It was a different duchess that was captured. But my "pushy arrogance" tends to result from someone trying to pull a WWI Germany and make out as if their loss was due to anything but a complete and utter defeat by their enemy. Aside from Ornaz, you lost Ahael (which Cathay took because you were busy being attacked by us) and we damaged Erahol, Zolon and Nahad. Enough to drive them rogue? No. But we damaged them enough. It was our entire strategy to damage your regions and starve you. It worked. You having crappy leadership and inactive nobles doesn't lessen that fact.
And Velax will happily burn Zonasa to the ground first chance he gets, but they are the only reason Aenilia still exists. I'd show a bit more gratitude if I were you. How you can insult a realm that regularly (six, seven times? More?) sent their entire mobile force, 10,000 - 13,000 CS, to defend your lands baffles me. During the entire course of the war, no other ally, of anyone, was as steadfast and reliable as Zonasa. Without them propping you up, Idapur would have been flying an Arcaean flag within two months of the outbreak of war. If you're reflective of the general Aenilian attitude toward Zonasa, they should have left you to get obliterated.
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Yeah, I don't know if tying in Jenred is really that big a "Arcaea" flaw. While there are some realms (Zonasa and Kindara), which can just rotate with whomever, and some who just can't seem to work no matter what (Aenelia, C'thonia, Ohnar West), the "military" realms are all very reliant on their leadership and of those three realms, Arcaea is the most stable. We've seen Cathay without Brian, Arcachon has two viable succesors, one of whom does want it as the player doesn't have the time, and the other has family feuds with with a whole mess of powerful people.
We all know who should be the successor in Arcaea and that's Sundar, because he is awesome.
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Go toot your own horn IC- it's acceptable there. :P
Ah the hypocrisy. It pleases my loins.
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Aside from Ornaz, you lost Ahael (which Cathay took because you were busy being attacked by us)
I can't speak for before I came back. Best of my knowledge, Cathay's had Ahael through 3 Aenilian rulers now. So perhaps I was lead to believe it happened much longer ago than is true. Or perhaps your timeline's off. Dunno, doesn't change things a whole lot.
As for Zonasa, I thought they were doing ok until that last ill-advised suicide run on Talex. We were all set waiting to pounce on Larmebsi with them and likely pick off Arcaea a bit piecemeal (expedite their arrival with a TO), and they turned toward Talex instead- because their nobles were complaining about wanting to attack a city. :o But judging by what people here are saying, their military's been a mess for quite some time.
And while I'm grateful for them propping Aenilia up for what appears to be the duration of the entire war, it was a situation that our realm should never have gotten themselves into, and Zonasa, honestly, should not have felt obligated to participate in. General feeling in the realm (including mine IC) is pretty much just that. Zonasa did the best that they could, and better than we ever did, and we're much obliged. But then, like I said, there's not much chatter in the realm period, so who knows.
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As for diplomacy in general, I really don't know how things would pan out. I mean, all other categories aside, and stripping away "allies since forever" types of agreements- how do the realms rank in terms of active diplomacy right now?
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I can't speak for before I came back. Best of my knowledge, Cathay's had Ahael through 3 Aenilian rulers now. So perhaps I was lead to believe it happened much longer ago than is true. Or perhaps your timeline's off. Dunno, doesn't change things a whole lot.
Cathay took Ahael under Brian to prove to Xarnelf that they were serious about being pissed about his moving through Colasan to attack Ohnar West after they denied passage rights. That was basically what caused Xarnelf to step down (Cathay's demand for peace), which caused Rekhyt to be elected.
As for Zonasa, I thought they were doing ok until that last ill-advised suicide run on Talex. We were all set waiting to pounce on Larmebsi with them and likely pick off Arcaea a bit piecemeal (expedite their arrival with a TO), and they turned toward Talex instead- because their nobles were complaining about wanting to attack a city. :o But judging by what people here are saying, their military's been a mess for quite some time.
Zonasa's military before the most recent war was the joke of the Far East. They spent several (RL) years as an openly "pacifist" realm, and generally made gains after others did all the hard work. That's one of the reasons it was such a big surprise that they proved decisive in this war. No one in Arcaea was expecting it, as the last time we'd fought, Zonasa had been pinned down and beaten without much difficulty.
And while I'm grateful for them propping Aenilia up for what appears to be the duration of the entire war, it was a situation that our realm should never have gotten themselves into, and Zonasa, honestly, should not have felt obligated to participate in. General feeling in the realm (including mine IC) is pretty much just that. Zonasa did the best that they could, and better than we ever did, and we're much obliged. But then, like I said, there's not much chatter in the realm period, so who knows.
Zonasa's been wanting an excuse to fight Arcaea since the last conflict (see above), and Erandi decided to take the legalistic "despite not agreeing with anything Xarnelf did, we have an alliance" view to allow Zonasa to fight. Kindara was the real surprise, which I believe mostly ended up being a "we want a war" decision, as they were even more unhappy with Xarnelf's actions than Zonasa was.
Regarding realms and active diplomacy, that was the main basis for my diplomatic rankings. Zonasa, Kindara, and Aenilia have a fairly solid defensive alliance, though I doubt any of them will march for the other in an aggressive war unless it has good justifications. Arcaea and Ohnar West have a fairly good alliance, but Ohnar West is too battered to do much more now, and has internal issues that keep it from being effective in the slightest (and will cause all kinds of fun in the near future). Cathay just alienated their former allies in Aenilia (which was a fairly big surprise, as that was an "allies forever" alliance), and by extension made Zonasa and Kindara somewhat unhappy. Everyone knows what they did to C'thonia, and that combined with their reluctance to actually send troops to fight (they took Ahael against effectively no resistance) has severely weakened their alliance with Arcaea and to a lesser extent Ohnar West.
C'thonia has, effectively, only Arcaea for allies but a variety of factors keep Arcaea from being able to assist them, and they've managed to annoy all of their allies.
Arcachon had allies in Aenilia, but they've just been isolated by the recent peace terms, and Arcachon's torture and harsher, borderline-Order of the Hawk violation looting has made a number of other realms who might have considered assisting them extremely unhappy.
Arcaea and Kindara may well end up allies again. There's a lot of people who used to be in Arcaea or have reason to like it in Kindara, and Kindara is named after Arcaea's Queen for a reason. That will likely remain a weaker alliance than, say, their alliance with Zonasa.
I expect Arcaea to remain on unfriendly terms with Zonasa, and either realm will probably jump on an opportunity to fight if they think they can do so without being pummeled by the rest of the continent. I really have no idea what is going to happen with Aenilia.
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Well, Aenilia went through three rulers within a month or two. And this war has gone on for considerably longer than that. So Cathay taking Ahael was before your time perhaps, but it was during this current war and not all that long ago.
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Cathay took Ahael under Brian to prove to Xarnelf that they were serious about being pissed about his moving through Colasan to attack Ohnar West after they denied passage rights. That was basically what caused Xarnelf to step down (Cathay's demand for peace), which caused Guy to be elected.
There was a guy in-between, though I guess he might as well have not been there. Either way, I get your point. ;)
Am I wrong in saying that the map EC/FEI uses is far too conducive to lateral alliances and vertical wars? The ones that run East-West don't seem to last long, but there's bitter resentment and constant warring North-South. Even if it's "we want war" as an excuse, people seem to always be willing to march across the continent, but not in their own backyard. Or is that just because reprisals are much easier when you fight your neighbor than the guy half an island away?
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There was a guy in-between, though I guess he might as well have not been there. Either way, I get your point. ;)
Am I wrong in saying that the map EC/FEI uses is far too conducive to lateral alliances and vertical wars? The ones that run East-West don't seem to last long, but there's bitter resentment and constant warring North-South. Even if it's "we want war" as an excuse, people seem to always be willing to march across the continent, but not in their own backyard. Or is that just because reprisals are much easier when you fight your neighbor than the guy half an island away?
Sorry, I meant to write "Rekhyt" and wrote "Guy" because I was thinking about whether he would ever get over his hatred for Arcaea. It's odd, I don't think we've ever done anything to him to cause it.
I think it's more of the latter. People don't want risk. That was actually what made Jenred start despising Xarnelf (rather than considering him a worthy adversary as he might have); Xarnelf point-blank refused to get involved in anything where Aenilia was even slightly at risk, and tried to claim that he had the right to interfere with other wars without Aenilia being put in danger. Yes, I (and Jenred) are quite aware that had a lot to do with trying to play diplomacy (and apparently, Kindara and Zonasa bought it, so perhaps he was right) but it still made Jenred furious.
There is certainly a map component as well, because it's basically impossible to defend your lands east-west even against a weaker opponent, whereas north-south you often can, which leads to people naturally forming "Southern" or "Northern" alliances, but I think the risk factor is more of an issue. People inherently make friends with their neighbors and want to fight people further away to avoid risk. And the map is generally only wide enough for two realms across...So you have "nearby" alliances that turn into "lateral" alliances in effect.
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Let's be honest, Arcachon never had allies, Arcaea just had people who hated it in Zonasa.
Aenelia mostly helped out Arcachon to screw with Ohnar West are Arcaea risk-free, and got called on it. Arcachon spent years being total bastards to everyone and the whole shebang started on a C'thonia-like assault in Niel which was ne-ever going to succeed and has snowballed since then. Ciann and Terril have some personal allies, as do some of the others in the realm, but that's about it (aside from Ciann's spy network).
Boogie-man realms don't get to have allies. If Arcaea conquers Arcachon, they'll likely find themselves in the new role of boogie-man (though of a different kind), and will probably face similar isolation problems (unless Cathay goes full fascist). That's just how human minds work. There is a boogie-realm in every continent and there probably always will be. Though they manifest differently you can almost immediately point at them and go "Those guys!"
I'd really like to see Cathay take up the role of villian though (once Arcachon's gone, which, like all villians it one day will). It's harder for them to do though, but a fascist military state is a more interesting villian then a quasi-empire. Mostly because I'm not sure that a pure RP empire without mechanics to back it will survive the first fit of pique due to imperial succession and while empires make for interesting internal dynamic, they are often too nebulous to serve as the straight villian.
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Oh, I'm quite aware of what will happen if Arcaea takes the Dark Isle, and have various plans to deal with it.
The problem with RPing an empire is that the RP is only as strong as the Emperor is personally. I'm betting Jenred can pull it off, but I may well be wrong. We shall see.
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I'd really like to see Cathay take up the role of villian though (once Arcachon's gone, which, like all villians it one day will). It's harder for them to do though, but a fascist military state is a more interesting villian then a quasi-empire. Mostly because I'm not sure that a pure RP empire without mechanics to back it will survive the first fit of pique due to imperial succession and while empires make for interesting internal dynamic, they are often too nebulous to serve as the straight villian.
Yeah, typically have to catch an empire as it's building or take it down from the inside.
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I'll give the delay arrival feature on seaways a test-drive again, and I'll keep things posted.
Please keep in mind that, essentially, Delay Arrival only works once per trip. And once it delays your arrival, you will arrive the turn after.
For example:
- If you are not supposed to arrive at the next turn change, then Delay Arrival does nothing at all.
- If you are supposed to arrive at the next turn change, and have more than one hour left, Delay Arrival will use up enough of your hours so that you fall one hour short of arriving, and you will not arrive.
- If you are supposed to arrive at the next turn change, and you only have one hour left, you will arrive, regardless of your Delay Arrival setting, or whether you have used the Delay Arrival already this trip.
.
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When you say "one hour left", you mean one hour away from your destination?
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err.. yes. Thanks for the clarification.
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Kindara was the real surprise, which I believe mostly ended up being a "we want a war" decision, as they were even more unhappy with Xarnelf's actions than Zonasa was.
Not to drag this conversation backwards, but I really wanted to clarify this bit :p
Kindara defended Aenilia because Aenilia helped them against NeoSartania (at least, that was the reason in realm, I really have no idea what Tissaphernes told the rest of the island) A vocal portion of the active characters took this obligation so seriously that the rest of the realm basically just went along with it. And that part was only made possible by the mentality that Xarnelf =/= Aenilia.
In terms of what Arcaea can expect to get out of them, Edara is more popular in Kindara than Arcaea as a realm. Jenred himself is the origin of the insult "You talk like a northerner"... It's a mixed feeling.
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Hey all.
I just found this forum. Nearly 5 years of playing and I didn't even know this was here.
Cheers.
pc
(Torres de los Reyes Family).
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Hey all.
I just found this forum. Nearly 5 years of playing and I didn't even know this was here.
Cheers.
pc
(Torres de los Reyes Family).
It's only been here for about 5 or 6 months now. :)
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Gah! A Zonasan! Kill it! :P
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KILL IT WITH FIRE!
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Apparently there are a few Zonasans on here. Surprises me, actually.
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Apparently there are a few Zonasans on here. Surprises me, actually.
The Forums WERE advertised on the login screen when they went live, and have a nice big button at the top of every game screen.
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The Forums WERE advertised on the login screen when they went live, and have a nice big button at the top of every game screen.
I guess I'm the oblivious one who never paid attention to the banners at the top because for years they didn't hold much of anything of note to me. Also, I generally skip reading the main page as I'm a little eager to log in and get things going. Oops...
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I guess I'm the oblivious one who never paid attention to the banners at the top because for years they didn't hold much of anything of note to me. Also, I generally skip reading the main page as I'm a little eager to log in and get things going. Oops...
There were never any other banners at the top as we have now.
And they are displayed regardless of which page you look at, not just at the login page.
Unless you meant the news ticker, which often had very useful information...
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Ah Zonasa. It's an even split (if Arcachon loses) between if Ciann will go there to reform the military and make havok, try to turn C'thonia into a real realm, or move to Arcaea.
*wipes a tear* Oh, to have those resources as a general.
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Ah Zonasa. It's an even split (if Arcachon loses) between if Ciann will go there to reform the military and make havok, try to turn C'thonia into a real realm, or move to Arcaea.
*wipes a tear* Oh, to have those resources as a general.
Ciann moving to Arcaea would be interesting. I'm not at all certain what Jenred would do in that scenario.
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Ah Zonasa. It's an even split (if Arcachon loses) between if Ciann will go there to reform the military and make havok, try to turn C'thonia into a real realm, or move to Arcaea.
I'd love to see the politics if Ciann turned up in Ohnar West - there are plenty of Lords who would give her an oath. *cough*NewArcachonInSasrhas*cough*
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Man, if I had a region, I sure would. Just think of the possible new sources of internal dissent and distrust. And then maybe I could talk Jenred into attacking OW, too!
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Hmm, Ciann reforming Zonasa's military might be interesting . . . there are certainly people that might at least be willing to listen.
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Man, if I had a region, I sure would. Just think of the possible new sources of internal dissent and distrust. And then maybe I could talk Jenred into attacking OW, too!
Was already working in that direction. Got sidetracked a little, but it's sitting on the back burner in a pinch.
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Hmm, Ciann reforming Zonasa's military might be interesting . . . there are certainly people that might at least be willing to listen.
All I can say is that Zonasa needs a few more competent military minds-- and players who have the time for such things. I tried being ruler and general for a while when Zonasa was short on trustworthy nobles and found it absolutely draining. Almost didn't have time for booze. :P
Also, the last noble who showed up in Zonasa and actually knew what he was talking about and was respectful enough to the rest of the nobles in the realm was made marshal of a small army within a month (under the careful watch of the Regent and a few others of course). That might be about all that's immediately available here at the moment, but who knows what the future holds. I've seen longtime, stable players up and leave without warning far too many times to think Zonasa is beyond such things. Heck, I've done it myself...
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To be honest the most likely way Ciann would end up in Arcaea is as a vassal of Edara. She's got a short list of people she trusts and she hates ruling a nation almost as much as she hated serving people she didn't trust. I doubt if Edara accepted her Jenred would force her to give up her new military toy.
That being said I'm not sure Edara would want a rabid dog to keep chained in the yard and fed jam.
Of course, in all likelihood Ciann will find some way to pull this war out for Arcachon. Heck, this time it's -only- Arcaea.
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Well, Edara is Jenred's main weakness...Could work.
And yes, it's "only" Arcaea this time...But an Arcaea that has shaken off the rust, and delay arrival will make a big difference.
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It may. Though delay arrival gives an advantage to Arcaea, Ciann is a much better ruler then Cerber. Well, at least militarily and diplomatically.
More importantly, theological disputes are arising! Huzzah! The real battle is afoot!
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The Forums WERE advertised on the login screen when they went live, and have a nice big button at the top of every game screen.
I always had that DIV blocked because of the annoying Firefox ad... That didn't go away even if you had Firefox.
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I always had that DIV blocked because of the annoying Firefox ad... That didn't go away even if you had Firefox.
What firefox ad? I didn't notice any firefox ads in ages.
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What firefox ad? I didn't notice any firefox ads in ages.
Indeed there has never been a firefox ad within the corenav div that I am aware of.
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There was. Obviously, having blocked it, I never noticed it went away. It used to be right there, below the login box. It was a 728x90 leaderboard.
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Yes, that ad has been there from time to time. Probably whenever Tom was fighting one stupid IE bug or another that was causing players to have problems with the game.
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I think Zonosa's General is still incompetent, and the peacekeeping-ness of the Far East won't last long. I can't wait for things to explode..
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I wouldn't say that Elk is incompetent . . . he certainly has flaws as a general, but outright incompetence is not one that I've observed.
What exactly would you say is evidence of his incompetence, though?
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I think by incompetence, he means "he disagreed with me and didn't do exactly what I wanted".
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Perhaps incompetent isn't the right word. More like dry. He's one of those never-wrong characters. Absurdly annoying to argue with, but all the more fulfilling when they lose.
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Perhaps incompetent isn't the right word. More like dry. He's one of those never-wrong characters. Absurdly annoying to argue with, but all the more fulfilling when they lose.
In that case yes incompetent isn't even CLOSE to the right word.
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In that case yes incompetent isn't even CLOSE to the right word.
Don't have to rub it in, everyone makes mistakes. And anyways, this is just my take on Elk. Everyone has their friends and foes :)
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Most people manage to refrain from coming to an OOC forum and calling another character an "incompetent prick"
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Perhaps with Ohnar West's recent spat of internal conflict, she should be brought down a notch in the rankings? I foresee a fairly difficult month or so there now whilst everyone tries to put their differences aside.
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Or the troubles beget interest, which beget activity, which beget amusement, which beget new nobles, which beget power.
Or, utter destruction.
Either way, it's fun.
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Perhaps with Ohnar West's recent spat of internal conflict, she should be brought down a notch in the rankings?
We can get lower in the rankings?
I foresee a fairly difficult month or so there now whilst everyone tries to put their differences aside.
Put aside our differences? What fun is that?
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We can get lower in the rankings?
Stick (rogue) between us and the people above us :P
Put aside our differences? What fun is that?
Of course it's fun! You can do... umm... that thing with the stuff! And... whatchamacallit... BURN THE HERETICS!
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Most people manage to refrain from coming to an OOC forum and calling another character an "incompetent prick"
A lot of !@#$ is said on here. Anyways, would you rather I lie and say something more pleasant?
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A lot of !@#$ is said on here. Anyways, would you rather I lie and say something more pleasant?
YES
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Toupellon. Wow.
I have to say I did not see that coming.
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Then you're not moving in the right circles! Mwahahaha!
What was the deal with it being called Tou[ellon for a while? Was it using some character that didn't exist in BM and/or English keyboards?
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Then you're not moving in the right circles! Mwahahaha!
Indeed, I've known about this for a bit and even helped to advice the Duke of Ozrat on how not to mess up. But shhh, nobody knows that.
What was the deal with it being called Tou[ellon for a while? Was it using some character that didn't exist in BM and/or English keyboards?
Nope, it was a typo because of the player of Anatole being on a laptop keyboard :P
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Ohnar West is more fun than I thought ;D So much inner conflict O.o
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Nope, it was a typo because of the player of Anatole being on a laptop keyboard :P
Hah, fair enough. Telrunya's character said, "What is this strange letter in that name that my scribes cannot recognise?"
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And thus more chaos begins! We'll have to revise the power rankings once this settles out. My estimate is that Arcaea will remain at the top, with Toupellon following at a very close second, then Kindara, Zonasa, Aenilia, Ohnar West, and Arcachon.
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Woo, this is gonna be fun! :o Our General and Judge sucked into Toupellon along with a lot of our nobles... Hmm Ohnar West is gonna be nice and roomy now
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Woo, this is gonna be fun! :o Our General and Judge sucked into Toupellon along with a lot of our nobles... Hmm Ohnar West is gonna be nice and roomy now
Very! And now it's full of Adgharist peasants and Sartanian nobles! BURN THE HERETICS! BURN THEM ALL!
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It just keeps getting better and better. :P
It just goes to show what being in the right place and the right time does for ya. Callandor II will now probably achieve Generalship of Ohnar West after less than a week of being there. Granted they are extremely weak now, but that can be worked on.. just need some willing helpers.
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Callandor II will now probably achieve Generalship of Ohnar West after less than a week of being there.
This is a tried and true tradition; don't go thinking you are special.
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It just keeps getting better and better. :P
It just goes to show what being in the right place and the right time does for ya. Callandor II will now probably achieve Generalship of Ohnar West after less than a week of being there. Granted they are extremely weak now, but that can be worked on.. just need some willing helpers.
Every General of OW for the last year has said the same thing, and they have had some very talented players as General. Problem is you probably lost the only nobles that would be any use rebuilding the army to the new realm. So good luck with that.
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All the generals of Ohnar West have been handicapped by the fact that pretty much half the realm never wanted to fight whatever war it was that they were fighting at the time, regardless of which war it was. I think everyone in the realm took turns being the half that didn't want to fight. Except Veleno. I think she was permanently on the "no fight" team.
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It just keeps getting better and better. :P
It just goes to show what being in the right place and the right time does for ya. Callandor II will now probably achieve Generalship of Ohnar West after less than a week of being there. Granted they are extremely weak now, but that can be worked on.. just need some willing helpers.
And so destruction continues to follow you. C'thonia gets attacked and destroyed just after you join and Ohnar West splinters apart just after you join there, too. Caerwyn, Norland, Aix, Ibladesh...join Arcachon next, can you?
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And so destruction continues to follow you. C'thonia gets attacked and destroyed just after you join and Ohnar West splinters apart just after you join there, too. Caerwyn, Norland, Aix, Ibladesh...join Arcachon next, can you?
Pst! How about Arcaea?
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Pst! How about Arcaea?
Hear, hear!
(speaking as the noble in Arcachon since commoners have little of value to say ;))
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Pst! How about Arcaea?
Arcaea will be getting significantly smaller in the medium-term future, if the war with Arcachon goes how I hope.
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Except Veleno. I think she was permanently on the "no fight" team.
Not entirely! She wanted Nighthelm dead! And... umm... nope, that's it...
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This is a tried and true tradition; don't go thinking you are special.
I'm not, just better than most others. 8)
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I'm not, just better than most others. 8)
How many people are actually in the army? Having being taken out of Ohnar West for the 2nd time due to secessions, I can't see the character list ¬¬
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How many people are actually in the army? Having being taken out of Ohnar West for the 2nd time due to secessions, I can't see the character list ¬¬
I'm not General yet and with new developments probably won't be. Toupellon ftw?
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How many people are actually in the army?
I went through the global character list since there's not many people to check out. You will lead an army of 5, congratulations!
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I'm leading only 2 nobles in IVF :P But fortunately that's not the whole realm XD
As I said, Callandor II gets a whole big package of disappointment.
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So, where would Sorraine come in the rankings? I'd say it's in the lower half but closer to the middle than to the bottom.
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Its in the low now. But it will be very powerful and dangerous once OW is wiped out.
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We'll also be getting a stream of ex-Ibladeshian nobles as well.
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And vastly improved recruitment centers.
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We'll also be getting a stream of ex-Ibladeshian nobles as well.
Ah, it is sad to see the Ibbies giving up EC and moving elsewhere. Not sure how well they will fare in Sorraine though, as from what I've observed when Giskard was still among the living, Theuderik charged in heralding the existence of the entire Ibladesh pantheon and not just Sartan. Wonder how will that work with overly fanatic and zealous Sartan-exclusive mentality of the Sorraineans. ;D
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Hopefully not very well. It would be sad if it just got established, and then a bunch of immigrants tried to turn it into NeoIbladesh.
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Hopefully not very well. It would be sad if it just got established, and then a bunch of immigrants tried to turn it into NeoIbladesh.
No, I'm actually quite curious to see how this turns out. The claim promise from the beginning from Caspius was that there would be some democratic themes going on within the theocracy and that if Sartan ever ceased to be a majority religion that they would no longer claim to be Sartanian, among other things. It was his biggest (and only real) selling point to "prove" that Sorraine wasn't just NeoNeoSartania. Nobody's convinced at all, which is why the south was (and still is) hesitant to deal much with them. Now's his chance to put his money where his mouth is and welcome other religions into the fold.
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The Ibladeshi religion and the Sartanian are related. Then again, so was Sartanism and Adgarinism.
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The Ibladeshi religion and the Sartanian are related. Then again, so was Sartanism and Adgarinism.
How were Sartanism and Adgharism ever related? Sartanism is an offshoot of the Church of Ibladesh. Sartanism viewed Adgharinism as idol worship.
Selene's actually somewhat concerned about the Ibladeshians and hopes to convert most of them and then either send the diehards to establish a new Church of Ibladesh somewhere far away on the FEI or to keep them within the Church of Sartan but give them their own special exemption to follow different rites to everyone else (much like the RL pope did recently with a bunch of Anglicans who decided to defect).
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How were Sartanism and Adgharism ever related? Sartanism is an offshoot of the Church of Ibladesh. Sartanism viewed Adgharinism as idol worship.
The Agharinists worshipped Sartan as one of their gods. They called him a different name, but they recognised him as the same god the Sartanians worshipped. I'm surprised you didn't know that.
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The Agharinists worshipped Sartan as one of their gods. They called him a different name, but they recognised him as the same god the Sartanians worshipped. I'm surprised you didn't know that.
Nah, that was a recent development. I remember during the fall of Niel that their high priest did an RP which made it clear that Adgharists considered Sartan to be dead and gone forever - they only decided to sort of recognise him as part of their pantheon after Sartania fell. Before that they insisted that he wasn't a god at all.
So basically, Sartanians never believed Adghar existed and the Adgharists only considered Sartan to be part of their pantheon until recently.
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Recently? Didn't Niel fall three or more years ago?
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Yep. It was quite a while back - but I was there and remember it well :)
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http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Adgharhin_Way/Deities#Tark
Tark
Tark, the Warrior, born of Chaos and Death. He is also known as Sartan.
This has been on the wiki for as long as I remember.
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http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Adgharhin_Way/Deities#Tark
This has been on the wiki for as long as I remember.
Weird. It wasn't always like that. But the belief that Sartanism and Adgharism was linked was only ever held by the Adgharists :p
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But the belief that Sartanism and Adgharism was linked was only ever held by the Adgharists :p
As we repeatedly noticed... :-)
Is Adgharinism completely dead by now?
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Yeah, they lost their last temple a while back. Not through Arcaean action either, I'll point out. They had no priests for a while, and then their only remaining elder went AFK without pausing, so there wasn't much they could do after that. Apparently they want to recreate it, but I've seen little evidence of that so far.
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My character has been worshiping Tersea from inside the Church of Sartan for a few months now.
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Now's his chance to put his money where his mouth is and welcome other religions into the fold.
No no no no no. In no way does a Theocracy (Theocratic Kingdom) "welcome" other religions into the fold. I simply said if the majority of Sorraine wasn't Sartanian... then it wouldn't be Sartanian and it would cease being a Sartanian Theocracy. The only reason why MAE was 'tolerated', and by 'tolerated' I mean suppressed, was because Selene suggested it and Caspius knew he needed the nobles. People tend to flock towards the bandwagon, or else they have no place; hence more Sartanians. Hoooray!
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http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Adgharhin_Way/Deities#Tark
This has been on the wiki for as long as I remember.
The wiki says it has been on the Wiki since 11 Feb 2008.
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So, where would Sorraine come in the rankings? I'd say it's in the lower half but closer to the middle than to the bottom.
Sorraine's stronger than Aenilia and Ohnar, I would say. Cathay's still a relatively unknown quantity, military-wise, and it's been a long time since Zonasa and Kindara had a war. If Kindara had more nobles, and more importantly more active nobles, it could just about match Arcaea. But it doesn't. It's a very quiet realm.