BattleMaster Community
BattleMaster => Development => Topic started by: Ironsides on September 13, 2011, 01:23:44 AM
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I played my character on Dwilight as a trader for a little while but had to stop because there was nothing to trade. Everyone wants food but no one wants to give it up. Therefore, being a trader was useless unless I stole from the black market. The trading class should be revamped to be more fun and dynamic. It has a lot of potential for traveling and contact/relationship building and the lure of easy wealth. There are very few active traders as far as I am aware because of this limp class.
Any thoughts? Maybe trade in diamonds/silks or other luxury goods? Potential for wealth and prominence?
I remember an attempt to bring more trading goods to the game like wood and stone or something, what happened to that?
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I think the dev team has been planning to work on a new resource system. Your region produces different resources now I believe. Like metal, wood ...etc. Eventually, traders might be able to trade these things.
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The new estate systems will allow a lot more food to circulate around in my opinion. Some time ago Morek was a large producer of food surplus and traders were quite involved (there were on the other hand no caravans yet back then), but now I can't think of any realm in dwilight who has enough surplus to safely sell it around.
With the new estate system and a lot more rural regions taken and kept at high production, I hope there will be a lot more trading around.
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As a Duke buying up every bushel I could find in D'Hara, I've noticed that the majority of trading is done by lord caravans. There are still, and will always be those regions that cannot be reached this way. Those regions however, are not allied territory. Allies tend to open up their food stores far more easily than far off realms that do not care whether your cities starve or thrive.
I have had decent amounts of fun playing a Trader, but I agree that there should be more things they can do besides searching half a continent to fill up a caravan or two. There is always add more stuff to trade! But that is a band-aid fix. We could.... add stuff only Traders can trade! That could work, if done correctly. Otherwise it would over power the trading game, and suddenly everyone is a Trader. I know! We could add something like the Banker's Manipulate the Books. An additional feature available only to Traders that adds some flavour. Oh nuts, we have that, its called the Blackmarket.
But I have an idea now. How come the Blackmarket is limited to food? Shady deals are made all the time, and in the setting of Battlemaster, I can think of nothing better to add than Unique Items to the Blackmarket. Its brilliant, think about it. Some fence offers to sell you Merlin's Staff of Rubber Chickens. Real? or Fake? Buy it on a gamble! It could work similarly to Hero's picking up volunteers, in terms of irregularly occurring. Perhaps even buy magic scrolls that I personally have only ever seen on BT as a result of the Dream?
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Iron resource could become very interesting.
To fight a long war, almost any realm would have to buy it elsewhere, creating trade that directly profits from war.
That alone would become interesting enough for the trader.
It would also spark alot more wars and more intent to takeover other regions than gold and food producing behemoths.
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Come to D'Hara and I will keep you busy trading. I won't tell you my sources unless you join.
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Come to Madina, we need more traders to take our food to people outside the Realm :P
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Come to Madina, we need more traders to take our food to people outside the Realm :P
SHHH! My precious!
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Iron resource could become very interesting.
To fight a long war, almost any realm would have to buy it elsewhere, creating trade that directly profits from war.
That alone would become interesting enough for the trader.
It would also spark alot more wars and more intent to takeover other regions than gold and food producing behemoths.
Tried that, lost a few hundred gold and a few hundred bushels, as well as acquired a ban. Not too anxious to repeat that experience..
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Tried that, lost a few hundred gold and a few hundred bushels, as well as acquired a ban. Not too anxious to repeat that experience..
Can't really follow you there, what did you do?
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The possibility to sell generic "goods", that sell for more the farther away you resell them, would be an interesting addition for traders. It would give them something to haul around when markets are low to justify keeping all of their caravans they need in the high season.
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The possibility to sell generic "goods", that sell for more the farther away you resell them, would be an interesting addition for traders. It would give them something to haul around when markets are low to justify keeping all of their caravans they need in the high season.
Yes, that would be excellent--and simulate a locally-produced item, it would be nice for the goods to become more profitable, the further away one travels. Maybe have some random lower regions where the people simply aren't interested in pearls or whatever it is you have.
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Can't really follow you there, what did you do?
Bought food on the blackmarket from a realm at war with our allies. Not the most literal translation... But in my experience, no one will sell you food with they know its going to feed their enemy, or suspect so.
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The possibility to sell generic "goods", that sell for more the farther away you resell them, would be an interesting addition for traders. It would give them something to haul around when markets are low to justify keeping all of their caravans they need in the high season.
Traders have some ability to sell "exotic goods", which if I remember correctly shows up as a function of your trading skill. I don't know if there are any distance modifiers.
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Traders have some ability to sell "exotic goods", which if I remember correctly shows up as a function of your trading skill. I don't know if there are any distance modifiers.
When a trader sells food there seems to be a chance you will also sell exotic goods, that you magically purchased without knowing and that you will sell without the game asking if you want to. The chance seems to be based on the distance between the purchase point and the sales point and trade skill. At least I never saw this while selling inside a realm but I did a few times from transporting food from one realm to another.
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Traders have some ability to sell "exotic goods", which if I remember correctly shows up as a function of your trading skill. I don't know if there are any distance modifiers.
When a trader sells food there seems to be a chance you will also sell exotic goods, that you magically purchased without knowing and that you will sell without the game asking if you want to. The chance seems to be based on the distance between the purchase point and the sales point and trade skill. At least I never saw this while selling inside a realm but I did a few times from transporting food from one realm to another.
That doesn't sound like what I call an "ability", but rather a perk, as it involved absolutely nothing on your part, and therefore does not contribute much in making your experience more interesting. It also sounds very infrequent.
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That doesn't sound like what I call an "ability", but rather a perk, as it involved absolutely nothing on your part, and therefore does not contribute much in making your experience more interesting. It also sounds very infrequent.
Pretty much, so far as I can see it is an incentive to compensate the trader somewhat for the extra cost associated with longer trips. Of course if the profit off the food isn't good enough for the trip, or some incentive isn't in place from a realm, why the hell are you bothering.
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It wouldn't be too bad to have mines or quarries to produce metals and stones for different resources.
If metals become more important in the game, it will be become a strategic resource. As wars progress, realms will experience shortage of resources and it will be cool to see some realms unable to fix their damaged equipment due to a shortage of metals.
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Pretty much, so far as I can see it is an incentive to compensate the trader somewhat for the extra cost associated with longer trips. Of course if the profit off the food isn't good enough for the trip, or some incentive isn't in place from a realm, why the hell are you bothering.
Before Dwilight, almost all traders generated no profit from their deed, they did so solely for national interests, or for an excuse to run around the continent, or because their realm wasn't about to have any war.
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Before Dwilight, almost all traders generated no profit from their deed, they did so solely for national interests, or for an excuse to run around the continent, or because their realm wasn't about to have any war.
Then frankly they sucked. I've been able to operate quite effectively and profitably on AT, BT, EC and FEI with traders. We had a long time trader in Arcaea that did so well he refused to even have an oath, though he became somewhat less active in recent months.
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Then frankly they sucked. I've been able to operate quite effectively and profitably on AT, BT, EC and FEI with traders. We had a long time trader in Arcaea that did so well he refused to even have an oath, though he became somewhat less active in recent months.
Congratz.
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Congratz.
The point is that the Trader class does work, but its certainty not meant to be a class for everyone. In fact the class works better if the amount of traders is limited, at least from the perspective of individual traders. An important thing to remember is that with the exception of Dwilight and some other exceptional realms on the other continents, a Trader just trying to buy and sell on the market is unlikely to get anywhere. For me the Trader class was all about personal contact and sweat heart deals, you needed to find and court those sources of food, and convince them to spare at least part of their harvest from being eaten up by the standard realm centric food for free dynamic. Since BM is supposed to be all about character relationships it makes sense to me that chances are to be a successful Trader you are going to need to form and maintain those relationships.
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It wouldn't be too bad to have mines or quarries to produce metals and stones for different resources.
If metals become more important in the game, it will be become a strategic resource. As wars progress, realms will experience shortage of resources and it will be cool to see some realms unable to fix their damaged equipment due to a shortage of metals.
That was the driving factor behind developing the New Economy (http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/New_Economy). This is another long-range project that has ties into the new estate system. A first stab at the new economy is why you see resources like farming, wood, fishing, etc. listed on region details pages in the game.
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Ahh so one day, we will see more complex economic structure? Cool. Hope we get to see this by the next year.
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That doesn't sound like what I call an "ability", but rather a perk, as it involved absolutely nothing on your part, and therefore does not contribute much in making your experience more interesting. It also sounds very infrequent.
I saw it maybe 3 times, and I think every time was on a Fissoa-Madina-Paisly trade journey. So maybe...50% of the time on journeys longer than a week?
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I saw it maybe 3 times, and I think every time was on a Fissoa-Madina-Paisly trade journey. So maybe...50% of the time on journeys longer than a week?
Hmmm.
Problem is that trips longer than a week are much harder on continents other than Dwilight.
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Hmmm.
Problem is that trips longer than a week are much harder on continents other than Dwilight.
Arcachon to OW used to give exotic sales about 60% of the time with trading skill of 65%
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Arcachon to OW used to give exotic sales about 60% of the time with trading skill of 65%
I never traded much.
Was that enough to make being a trader more interesting?
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I never traded much.
Was that enough to make being a trader more interesting?
not more interesting, but more profitable, and it could make a breakeven trip to a profitable one. And if you're playing your character as wealth-obsessed, or if you the character are going for the 5000 gold fame or needs gold to buy more caravans/troops, it certainly helps.
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From experience, I never got anything more than +5 gold from selling exotics. If a trade is not profitable or useful, it won't make me change my mind.
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I think I got 85 gold for selling 1000+ bushels of food between Fissoa and Paisly.
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I think I got 85 gold exotics bonus for selling 1000+ bushels of food between Fissoa and Paisly.
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i think mine got 30 odd from a 500 bushel trade. that's from his 1st trade
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From experience, I never got anything more than +5 gold from selling exotics. If a trade is not profitable or useful, it won't make me change my mind.
I generally got between 30-50 gold for exotic trades, never saw anything as low as 5 gold. I wonder if the distance or the size of the trade affects the exotic income.
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I generally got between 30-50 gold for exotic trades, never saw anything as low as 5 gold. I wonder if the distance or the size of the trade affects the exotic income.
From what people are saying here, it sounds like it.
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Distance and possibly quantity of food sold, or number of caravans.
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I generally got between 30-50 gold for exotic trades, never saw anything as low as 5 gold. I wonder if the distance or the size of the trade affects the exotic income.
I sold Masahakon's food in Akanos, I would hope distance was large enough. The size of trades could be a reason though, I tended to sell 50 to 100 bushels at a time.
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I sold Masahakon's food in Akanos, I would hope distance was large enough. The size of trades could be a reason though, I tended to sell 50 to 100 bushels at a time.
Why bother? I try for 500-1200 bushels normally. I have 8 caravans with me right now.
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Why bother? I try for 500-1200 bushels normally. I have 8 caravans with me right now.
"-I can save your city from starvation good Sir. Even though I only have 50 bushels with me and I promised them to the Lord of Kepler, if you give me 100 pieces of gold I will leave them here and tell Lord Kepler I lost them to bandits.
-Yes, do so!
Three days later:
-The city is starving again!
-You are in luck, after three days of relentless search, I could find 50 bushels more!"
Lather, rinse, repeat. I carried 700 bushels with me for more than a year, never saw a need to sell it all at once.
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i'll be dead honest. i think a trader can benefit from a guard paraphernalia rather than a unit.
what do traders need unit for? stop random npc from robbing their gold?
getting arrested by hostile realm? well.. if they want to go to hostile realm, they can bring a unit to avoid that! guards shouldn't stand a chance
can't think of anything else.
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i'll be dead honest. i think a trader can benefit from a guard paraphernalia rather than a unit.
what do traders need unit for? stop random npc from robbing their gold?
getting arrested by hostile realm? well.. if they want to go to hostile realm, they can bring a unit to avoid that! guards shouldn't stand a chance
can't think of anything else.
I would like this. Units just go get themselves killed against rogues.
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just saying.. because it's like a slave trader.
you get a unit, and carry tons of gold. head to destination light year away, dump your unit before it dumps you. head home with no gold but lots of food.
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just saying.. because it's like a slave trader.
you get a unit, and carry tons of gold. head to destination light year away, dump your unit before it dumps you. head home with no gold but lots of food.
Indeed, once you bought what you wanted, you don't need troops for anything anymore. They become more of a hassle than anything.
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i'll be dead honest. i think a trader can benefit from a guard paraphernalia rather than a unit.
what do traders need unit for? stop random npc from robbing their gold?
Yes.
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Yes.
But bandits only steal gold, and not food, afaik. Once you spent all your gold, they are only good for getting you captured by rogues.
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Eh, its choosing between bandits stealing your gold or your own unit from their low morale. I'll take my chances with the bandits *knocks on wood*
*keeps knocking on wood the entire road home*
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funny thing... a few days ago. noble, scout, healer and 8 trucks KOing bandits (only ~100 gold on noble)
During your travels, you are suddenly attacked by a group of bandits.
Fighting heroically, you manage to drive them away. You have merely lost one hour of travel time to the incident.
You find the route more difficult than you guessed, and will take one hour longer for the trip than planned.
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Guards also protect you from getting attacked by monsters. If you don't have soldiers, the monsters in the region can attack and steal your caravans even while you are traveling. This is different than normal battles. Even if you evade battle, the monsters can still attack and raid your caravans. If you don't have enough soldiers, the monsters can eat your food.
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Guards also protect you from getting attacked by monsters. If you don't have soldiers, the monsters in the region can attack and steal your caravans even while you are traveling. This is different than normal battles. Even if you evade battle, the monsters can still attack and raid your caravans. If you don't have enough soldiers, the monsters can eat your food.
I've never seen that with traders, I have seen it with Lord Caravans though
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Had it happen once to me not long after it got put in. My unit of 55 SF got shredded. Half dead and the other half wounded. :'(
I think Tim turned it down a bit after that...
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Guards also protect you from getting attacked by monsters. If you don't have soldiers, the monsters in the region can attack and steal your caravans even while you are traveling. This is different than normal battles. Even if you evade battle, the monsters can still attack and raid your caravans. If you don't have enough soldiers, the monsters can eat your food.
I have never seen this nor heard of it before now.
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well, in which case, maybe you could just get rid of the trader merc getting pissed away from home thing? (or dial it right down for traders)
or yet another setting called something other than merc and made only available to traders that does the same thing.
(i just got robbed 5 gold XD out of 100 odd)
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well, in which case, maybe you could just get rid of the trader merc getting pissed away from home thing? (or dial it right down for traders)
or yet another setting called something other than merc and made only available to traders that does the same thing.
(i just got robbed 5 gold XD out of 100 odd)
It already is reduced for troops set to mercenary.
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(i just got robbed 5 gold XD out of 100 odd)
A group of bandit jumps out of the bushes, armed to the teeth, completely gsurounding you and your caravans.
"Ha, give me 5% of ALL your gold or taste my steel!"
???
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i know it's reduced for mercs, what i'm saying is, reduce it even further - for trader and not merc
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i know it's reduced for mercs, what i'm saying is, reduce it even further - for trader and not merc
Mecenaries already cost 50% more than normal troops, for a return that is not all that considerable. Perhaps we should simply boost the merc benefits, either by reducing distance penalties more (I'm under the impression they suffer a fraction of normal penalties, so this would consist in making them suffer a smaller penalty) or by setting a distance cap after which going farther doesn't give any greater penalties, which would particularily help on Dwi where people have to go pretty far. Or both.
As it is, mercenary troops don't seem to do their role very well at all, especially not for that considerable salary hike.
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i mention trader rather than merc because the extra benefit should go to traders, rather than any old noble who command merc. similarly the guards paraphernalia
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come to think of it. i wouldn't be adverse to mercs being something akin to sf altogether.. a different unit type that can be anything (ranged, melee, whatever), with its own wage multiplier and simply remove merc settings
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i mention trader rather than merc because the extra benefit should go to traders, rather than any old noble who command merc. similarly the guards paraphernalia
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come to think of it. i wouldn't be adverse to mercs being something akin to sf altogether.. a different unit type that can be anything (ranged, melee, whatever), with its own wage multiplier and simply remove merc settings
Better/no distance from realm penalties. Larger battle morale penalties, desertion rates, and unpaid intolerance. That would sound like true mercenaries to me.
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I generally got between 30-50 gold for exotic trades, never saw anything as low as 5 gold. I wonder if the distance or the size of the trade affects the exotic income.
Distance and possibly quantity of food sold, or number of caravans.
It depends quite heavily on the price of what you are selling the food for. On EC, I made a trip of the entire island, but sold the food for very cheap (paid by bonds transfer). Got hardly any exotic goods.
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Better/no distance from realm penalties. Larger battle morale penalties, desertion rates, and unpaid intolerance. That would sound like true mercenaries to me.
Yes, this would be the most helpful.
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bah... just sold some food from storm's end to port nebel. no luxury goods bonus.
stupid pirates must have robbed them without telling me.. onwards to paisly to sell the rest and see if there's any there.