BattleMaster Community
BattleMaster => Locals => Beluaterra => Topic started by: Norrel on September 24, 2011, 07:42:58 AM
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I'm pretty bored of Atamara and I'm thinking about moving my character to Beluaterra. I like Dwilight a lot, so I think I'd like to join a realm with some form of SMA-ishness, or at least no silly crap, and some level of RP, as well as high activity. Any recommendations?
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Sint has good character, controversial religion and insane stance towards humans.
Melhed is an intresting place for disusing... various stuff.... it has small 'conflicts' involving almost everyone on almost anything, but rarley really fight. it's a little like an arabian market.
I don't see any other war coming soon, but soemthing is brewing betwene some nobles in thal and some in melhed(you could easily say hate).
Then you have enweil, west enweil(with the weird name) and riombara who will be fighting there war for some time.
They have along standing rivalry, so such war can be fun, Riombara is characterized by beeing really democratic and Enweil by always beeing very huge...
All other realms are(will be) fairly boring with only a few traits:
OG has alot of food excess, nice to start as trader, is also in good diplomatic relations with everyone
Thalmarkin is a small tyrany with a strong leadership and quite effective military, who will certainly be looking for war, but unfrotunatly i found it a poor place for RP, some characters there never even heard of the word honor.
But there characters are fun and a good potential to cause many real conflicts with other nations.
Fronen is boring, in effective and beaten to pulp, perhaps it will be intresting to join now as they will have to make many intresting decisions that will decide on there future.
Nothoi sits in a mountain with the crapiest army in the continent, nothing more to say about them...
Actually I can't wait for the invasion to come to destroy all these silly realms.
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I'll admit, my own views are biased due to my own experiences, but hey. So's everyone else's.
Enweil - Once a huge power on BT, overthrowing governments with their awesome military power to establish democracies and republics, but they've hit harder times since the last invasion. Contrary to a certain person's propaganda, they were starting to weaken militarily pre-Invasion as well. Not sure on the status of their RP.
Fronen - The Old Man of Beluaterra, Fronen was also once a military might, but the Invasion had seen many of their allies crushed into dust or switching sides when leaders change. They had the misfortune to have had a leader who lacked any and all tact before old enemies charged against Fronen. From my understanding, they once had a bit of RP, but don't know about now. They certainly have opportunity for it.
Imperskoe Viys'ko iz Fheuv'na - IVF, aka Enweil, Jr. or Enweil West, is supposedly a theocracy. No idea what faith they are. RP is also unknown.
Melhed - If you like debating to have a vote to debate to have a vote, Melhed is for you. They're generally the sloth of Beluaterra.
Nothoi - The democratic offspring of Old Bara'khur, Not sure how their RP is in comparison. They have a rough going, as they're all mountains for the most part.
Old Grehk - Old Grehk's swayed in power many times over the years. So too has the amount of RP that happens. Right now, seems kinda quiet. A few of us are trying to change that.
Riombara - Rio's been a bastion and fixture in the deep South, frequently aligned with the far North, like OG. Not sure how their RP is, though it was quite common at one point.
Sint - My experience with them is colored. There wasn't much in the way of RP while I was there and newcomers never seemed very welcomed, many leaving soon after arriving. Not sure if that's changed with the new leadership, though I know it was different in the past.
Thalmarkin - This monarchy started out as a colony of Old Grehk and Riombara in the distant past. Their loyalties have swayed many times over the years. Not sure how their RP ever was.
Pretty much all the realms need knights, many characters having died or fled during the last Invasion.
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Imperskoe Viys'ko iz Fheuv'na - IVF, aka Enweil, Jr. or Enweil West, is supposedly a theocracy. No idea what faith they are.
No religion. They're a theocracy without a religion. Chénier just likes the options the gov't style gives or something. lol.
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...
*rubs temples*
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Thalmarkin is a small tyrany with a strong leadership and quite effective military, who will certainly be looking for war, but unfrotunatly i found it a poor place for RP, some characters there never even heard of the word honor.
Lol, let me gues, you play in Melhed :P
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If you want to join Dwilght, The Grand Duchy of Fissoa is undergoing some really positive changes currently. When theres new activity it's often a good time to join.
But to be honest every realm on Dwilight looks fun, I wish I could play them all haha! ;D
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stuff
It seems like you're unsure about the RP of basically every realm ??? Which ones would you say are the best?
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It seems like you're unsure about the RP of basically every realm ??? Which ones would you say are the best?
In my experience, BT is not a very RP-heavy island. In Riombara, Fleugs' character has been writing a fair number of RPs concerning the religion he is thinking about founding, though it's been a little while since I last saw one, and the realm is active internally with debate and an open political system. Fronen is largely devoid of RP, although intra-realm and inter-realm politics are pretty interesting there at the moment as a result of tension between Vur Hagin Duchy and the others, and the fact that they have been ganged up on by the entire northern part of the island. Lots of intrigue at the moment. I cannot speak for the other realms, but Nothoi seems particularly miserable to me, while OG seems particularly bland (as an outsider). Sint has a very interesting religion, but I don't know what that realm is like internally. Melhed is famous for Machiavellian politics, but historically is very insular and does not often get involved in wars. Thalmarkin is highly organized, so I suspect there is a fairly high level of activity there, but I know very little about the realm's internal culture.
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Thalmarkin is a small tyrany with a strong leadership and quite effective military, who will certainly be looking for war, but unfrotunatly i found it a poor place for RP, some characters there never even heard of the word honor.
Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of tyrannies and I think there's way too few of them but I don't count Thalmarkin among them. Yes, we have strong leaders, but they're far from unquestionable, we've got a pretty stable government at the moment but that comes only after our previous judge was protested out, a new one was voted and in and he has also suffered his share of protests and criticism, especially from the previous judge. :P (Of course before that we had tons and tons of protests coming from the clan who I'm guessing inspired you to use "tyranny" ;) Glad we're rid of those tbh.)
Furthermore it's the Royal Advisors (containing 17 out of 32 of our nobles) that take most decisions, the King rarely acts alone. Oh, and all the positions are elected, the general even every month.
Anyway, no honour... let me explain our "switching of sides": we are traditionally allied with OG and things have now returned to their natural order, the reason we warred them before the invasion is because they chose Sint over us in their war against Fronen, Sint being the realm that nearly destroyed OG with the help of the daimons during the third invasion, and the ones who set this "invader-allying" fad in motion, a trend that Thalmarkin steered clear from.
This war, we were allied with both sides and OG and Sint supplied us with the food necessary to survive during the invasion while Fronen sent an army North once when the undead had already temporarily moved on, stationed it in Unger eating that precious food and then they moved blindly into the blight, losing their army. For some reason they never returned after that... Maybe they thought we used some sort of dark magic to destroy their army.
That aside, of course conquest was a defining factor as well, in particular the conquest of Jedinchel which was ours before our crazy general defected with it to Fronen and which they didn't want to return to us, because we were too "unstable"... But we could just as well have gone after OG for conquest, I had 15 knights in Unger, we definitely needed some new regions to load them off, damn knights ate away +60% of my income... :P
Melhed on the other hand doesn't even seem to take honour into account when making decisions, just the nobles' opinion of the moment. But well, I do applaud that you've finally managed to get into a war.
We also just had a very, very lengthy discussion because one of our nobles unsuspectingly admitted relation to a commoner (advy), duel threats were being thrown around and it climaxed with a failed assassination. Never did this affect the stability of our realm as a whole or the dedication our nobles show in the war. Sure, a few more vendettas may have been created to add to the existing one, but the loyalty to Thalmarkin and the will to work together was never in doubt. I love it. :)
But there characters are fun and a good potential to cause many real conflicts with other nations.
I consider it our duty to keep BT warring until the day the 5th invasion starts! :)
Anyway, that aside, Thalmarkin has a bit of both rp-wise. We don't really have much written roleplays, but we've definitely got a bunch of chars who take SMA very seriously, and then there's also a couple of silly chars. If for example a member of the Cosula family ever rises to the throne again, you can bet your account on it that sock-sucking is going to be publicly demanded from our enemies and that spanking will be promised. In other words: if you want hardcore SMA, then Thalmarkin probably isn't for you, we like our SMA sprinkled with some good old-fashioned silliness.
We do however have a high level of activity and it is not very hard to rise in our ranks if you are involved in the realm.
As for Riombara, the other realm I'm in (you might have noticed I'm not going for the usual semi-neutral report of all realms): it is indeed a very open republic where pretty much everything is voted on. We are fighting our eternal war against Enweil (now with extra mini-Enweil) and are doing pretty well even if the war has been pretty much of a stalemate so far. We are in dire need of nobles and it's easier to get a lordship position than to spot a rat in the sewer so to speak. All positions are voted on monthly and for every important decision a referendum for all nobles is held. In theory a weekly diplomacy report should be presented to the nobles but that is not really practice. There are a few (not very well defined) political factions, we've got the hardcore Enweil haters, the pragmatists, the monarchists and the republicanists. We tax every region 25% and every duchy 100% and then spread everything out amongst the nobility, ensuring everyone receives a good tax share.
We've got a decent SMA atmosphere (even though our tax system has been called communist :P) driven by the desire to go medieval on Enweil and strong morals, SMA is not really a main concern but there's next to no silliness. But as Geronus has said, written rps are quite scarce as well, with the exception of Fleugs' descriptions of inventive ways of killing people.
So that's it, I find it hard to speak of things like atmosphere and roleplay as an outsider, so I'll leave that to the others.
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Melhed on the other hand doesn't even seem to take honour into account when making decisions, just the nobles' opinion of the moment. But well, I do applaud that you've finally managed to get into a war.
Scrap that applause, they just signed peace. Congratulations to Fronen for getting the wimps out of the war with a hugely beneficial treaty.
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Most everyone here is going to try to sway you to join their realm on BT; everywhere always needs more nobles. I am part of Fronen and IVF, though soon to be Melhed and IVF. Heavy fighting will be found everywhere except Nothoi, who seems to just chill in their regions.
I suggest that rather than ask the players where you should join, go to the wiki and read about each realm, their government, etc.
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How much does a knight make in your realm(s)?
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In Thalmarkin I think it lies around 60 gold/noble (correct me if I'm wrong), with unit recruitment being mostly paid for by well... me. :P Knights of Unger used to get between 80-100 gold back when we were smaller and I had more knights as I could run significantly higher taxes.
In Riombara I make 100 gold as knight of a moderately sized city.
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Most everyone here is going to try to sway you to join their realm on BT; everywhere always needs more nobles. I am part of Fronen and IVF, though soon to be Melhed and IVF. Heavy fighting will be found everywhere except Nothoi, who seems to just chill in their regions.
I suggest that rather than ask the players where you should join, go to the wiki and read about each realm, their government, etc.
Obviously there's going to be some bias, but there's still more than a grain of truth hidden in it. I'm just looking at general trends that everyone's agreeing on.
The wiki, I've found, is basically hopelessly out of date, especially for Beluaterra.
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Enweil - Once a huge power on BT, overthrowing governments with their awesome military power to establish democracies and republics, but they've hit harder times since the last invasion. Contrary to a certain person's propaganda, they were starting to weaken militarily pre-Invasion as well. Not sure on the status of their RP.
Between the third and fourth-invasion, Enweil held off a gang-bang from Mesh, Hetland, Sint, and Heen, all while worrying about their southern border with Riombara. They had also succeeded in bringing Riombara down to nothing but their capital before the gang-bang occured, and then when they fought again, they had managed to penetrate deep in Dominion of Alluran lands after this realm sided with Riombara against Enweil. When fighting against Riombara, in all of this period, Riombaran and Alluran troops fought Enweil in Enweil's lands only once or twice, as opposed to the countless battles in Riombaran lands. Enweil's total CS was also continuously increasing during these periods. So despite what some people like to fool themselves with, Enweil was quite a military power in the fourth age. Not so much right now, though. Very little RP.
Fronen - The Old Man of Beluaterra, Fronen was also once a military might, but the Invasion had seen many of their allies crushed into dust or switching sides when leaders change. They had the misfortune to have had a leader who lacked any and all tact before old enemies charged against Fronen. From my understanding, they once had a bit of RP, but don't know about now. They certainly have opportunity for it.
"Old Man"? The hell? The new Fronen has nothing at all to do with the old Fronen, except for the name. I've been part of both, and very involved in the creation of the second version from behind the scenes. All of the old Fronen nobles went to Rio and stayed there when people from Avalon "recreated" the realm. This new realm started quite small and it took a lot of time and battles for it to increase in might. They started with Vur Hagin as their biggest and only city, and that goes to say a lot. No idea on how RP is in there nowadays.
Imperskoe Viys'ko iz Fheuv'na - IVF, aka Enweil, Jr. or Enweil West, is supposedly a theocracy. No idea what faith they are. RP is also unknown.
Imperskoe Viys'ko iz Fheuv'na, or Fheuv'n, was born from the secession of Iato from Enweil when Riombara stated it would declare war on Enweil. Basically, it is made-up of the more active Enweilian nobles of the time who felt they were being muzzled by a risk-averse initiative-lacking oligarchy, plus the new nobles that were recruited to the duchy during the preparation phase prior to the secession. It was founded with clear religious doctrine, but no official in-game religion, because 1) there's none to my liking and 2) there's no reason one would have to use IG religions over purely RP-ed religions. Since the secession, we have also established different rules and laws to distinguish ourselves, measures we could not take as a duchy in Enweil. The general theme is cossack-based, and we have the Creed of the Cossacks that all government members must swear to prior to running for office, but it's more of a tool for RP than a strict set of rule forcing everyone to RP their nobles as the cossacks of the real world lived. There are also laws on religions, with a long list of banned faiths, but overall the realm is still rather new and many things have yet to be determined. As for "jr.", while it is true that we are much smaller than Enweil in terms of land, in our joint attack against Fwuvoghor our army was actually superior to Enweil's, having reached 7000 mobile CS for 14 nobles from 7 regions. Our military might is almost always superior to Nothoi's, a realm slightly larger, with wealthier regions and a much bigger city. Indeed, when we fought there, we crushed them. We are also a realm that believes a lot in looting. However, two separate bugs have prevented us from doing any of it in both of our campaigns. I am quite eager for this to be fixed... There are no "council" message group, so everything that is shared is shared with everyone. There aren't many messages tagged as RPs, but there are several people involved in developing a unique culture for the realm.
Income averages out at about 115 gold per nobles, usually going around 90-100 gold or so for nobles aligned to rurals. We also have many adjacent rogue regions that we plan on expanding to.
Furthermore, we have declared a jihad on Sint and Riombara, the former also bringing us to war against Nothoi (which we fought) and Old Grehk (which we didn't). I don't see any peace for Fheuv'n until the next invasion, which will likely bring us different kinds of fighting. We are allied to Enweil (which combined with the blight offers us good cover) and Fronen.
Obviously there's going to be some bias, but there's still more than a grain of truth hidden in it. I'm just looking at general trends that everyone's agreeing on.
The wiki, I've found, is basically hopelessly out of date, especially for Beluaterra.
Indeed, our wiki was intentionally a stub because we wanted to remain discrete as we dealt with the crazy rogue spawns from when we seceded and then built up an army. Haven't had the time to fill it up since our diplomatic stances were revealed.
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/me rubs his temples.
I was making a comparison between Fronen and the WWI-era Ottoman Empire (albeit, they were callled the Sick Old Man of Europe). Both once large, powerful, and though hated -- respected. Now they are a collapsing shadow of what they once were.
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/me rubs his temples.
I was making a comparison between Fronen and the WWI-era Ottoman Empire (albeit, they were callled the Sick Old Man of Europe). Both once large, powerful, and though hated -- respected. Now they are a collapsing shadow of what they once were.
I don't see how the condition applies.
Fronen was never as large as it was prior to this war. In which they haven't lost all that much.
Further, they weren't very much liked prior to the invasion anyways, many indeed hated them already. I would even go as to say that Fronen has never been as much liked as it is today. Fronen's ruler is showing that he does care for his allies, something the previous rulers of Fronen really failed at. Enweil, and now Fheuv'n, have never had as many reasons to like Fronen as they do now, because Fronen was always doing its own thing and thinking of nothing but itself. Granted, the terms of peace offered to it are ridiculous, but they are nonetheless showing solidarity for her allies. A first that does not pass unnoticed.
Fronen's growth is a recent phenomenon, they never reached such mights before, and they are still holding out pretty well. I do not see how the comparison fits in any way.
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Of course you don't.
Go back to your own world, Chenier.
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Of course you don't.
Go back to your own world, Chenier.
May as well compare Thalmarkin to the Soviet Empire. Because, you know, it's cold?
Your comparison was poor.
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I have to say Chenier, it's always fun to read your version of the truth.
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I have to say Chenier, it's always fun to read your version of the truth.
Which aspects diverge from your version?
I argument my views, at least, unlike some. It's easy to claim, for example, that Enweil was a declining military power. But then one would have to support such a statement, because decline and military power are both relative and subjective.
When I say that I think Riombara is outmatched by Enweil+Fheuv'n, I give arguments. Historical, geographical, and economical. For example, Enweil came to a hair of successfully pulling it off in the last age is a historical argument. Geographically, Riombara as a lot of fortified chokepoints that make it a tough nut to crack. But once cracked, it will then be the one that has to worry about attacks and harassment on two fronts, instead of Enweil. Economically, if I look at the stats page, it looks that if we ignore what appears to have been a big investment quite recently, Enweil and Riombara now have access to equivalent amounts of gold. However, Fheuv'n breaks this equation, tipping it in favor of Enweil. However, the greatest economical aspect of that war is food: Fheuv'n has thousands of bushels it doesn't know what to do with, and Enweil is more than secure with food herself. Riombara, on the other hand, has by my calculations a food surplus equivalent to more or less two rurals' worth. Past this point, it becomes a food deficit. Kuugl is adjacent to Enweil, breaking its production or making it revolt would simply require Fheuv'n and Enweil to join forces and attack it, a rather simple task. leaving the equivalent of 1 rural to be dealt with to remove the surplus, which can either be done by focusing on a single region or spreading out on many, such as the isles. Note that if looting had not been bugged, Fheuv'n would have already dealt significant damage to Riombara's food-producing islands. We had a few days before battles occurred, and could have easily avoided the Riombaran troops longer.
Riombara has a strong military, good movement rates, and very defensible choke points. But its economy is still inferior to her enemies', and her food balance is fragile and requires careful management of population growth. That is why I believe that Rio will continue to give one hell of a fight, but that as soon as her enemies score significant hits, it'll be a irreversible decline. Enweil and Fheuv'n just need the north to stay out of it long enough for them to reach this point, as once it is reached, even if Rio is still alive, then could then deal with the far-away northerners and continue their progress against Rio.
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You're right, this isn't an easy war for Riombara, Enweil and IVF can also both run higher taxes in their regions due to smaller size. But well, Fronen may have created a 3 region city/mountain front, but I don't think that they'll be able to hold that much longer. The chokepoint front they created can quickly turn against them.
But looting hasn't only affected IVF. Vur Hagin could've been burned to the ground numerous times if Thalmarkin wanted (that's a big if though) and looting worked. Melhed would be getting an empty shell of a region with Jyl if we could've looted. Since it switched to OG, it has basically become an outpost for us, we've had an army there frequently and practically unopposed, right next to Fronen's capital. With nothing to do but destroy some military infrastructure.
Anyway, back to the point, Enweil did suffer some serious military defeats towards the end of the war, sure they were still powerful but things did start to look grim when the invasion kicked in. I also wouldn't call it a gangbang if you've got allies fighting for you as well. The word gangbang is used way too easily in my opinion, and often a "gangbang" is even necessary when fighting a powerhouse like Fronen or Enweil. People should see it as a compliment.
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You're right, this isn't an easy war for Riombara, Enweil and IVF can also both run higher taxes in their regions due to smaller size. But well, Fronen may have created a 3 region city/mountain front, but I don't think that they'll be able to hold that much longer. The chokepoint front they created can quickly turn against them.
Indeed, it is a race against time. To do significant damage against Riombara before the north does significant damage against Fronen.
But looting hasn't only affected IVF. Vur Hagin could've been burned to the ground numerous times if Thalmarkin wanted (that's a big if though) and looting worked. Melhed would be getting an empty shell of a region with Jyl if we could've looted. Since it switched to OG, it has basically become an outpost for us, we've had an army there frequently and practically unopposed, right next to Fronen's capital. With nothing to do but destroy some military infrastructure.
No, but the north can actually do takeovers, which Fheuv'n cannot. A brutal takeover can be quite damage on its own, without any looting. You've also got large quantities of militia you can focus on killing in the meanwhile, we do not. Before our attack, Fwuvoghor had like 2k worth of militia only. And Vur Hagin only offers a small percentage of Fronen's income, while Ajitmon, Cjelegy, and Avengmil produce a large portion of Riombara's food production. Furthermore, Fheuv'n suffered heavy casualties to access these regions, our mobile army got completely decimated on the expectation that looting would eventually be turned back on. We lost all of our forces for nothing. Our attack required looting to be worth it, while the costs of any northern attack is quite smaller, especially considering that the trip from your capital to the targets is both shorter and safer.
Anyway, back to the point, Enweil did suffer some serious military defeats towards the end of the war, sure they were still powerful but things did start to look grim when the invasion kicked in. I also wouldn't call it a gangbang if you've got allies fighting for you as well. The word gangbang is used way too easily in my opinion, and often a "gangbang" is even necessary when fighting a powerhouse like Fronen or Enweil. People should see it as a compliment.
The seriousness of these defeats was exaggerated and due to poor movement rates or coordination. The biggest defeat, which set the tone of the propaganda thereafter imo, was the defeat in DoA lands, where we had a strategical advantage but called off our forces at the last minute because of the declaration that the invasion was coming. The armies pulled back in waves, and was slaughtered by the enemy forces. However, had it not been for that declaration, we were preparing to loot Alluran's core regions heavily and cripple their military capacity, as we had significantly superior numbers and were going to force them to attack us instead of the other way around. The other big defeat was in Mio Dupaki, where smaller forces attacked by "squeezing through the heavily overcrowded siege engines" and with horrible formations. However, you will note that Riombara boasts of no victory following this. All the battles were occuring in enemy lands, and they were happening deeper and deeper in enemy lands. Someone who is winning a war won't be fighting in his own regions, imo. Also, is Rio was fairing a little better at the end, it is because Alluran declared war, and Enweil considered Alluran to be, by far, the easiest target, and therefore decided to focus fully on Alluran to wipe them out first.
And do consider that war isn't just about battles. Riombara, for example, mostly pulls back whenever they deem they risk losing. Allows them to keep a "better" slate and boast about a better win/loss ratio. However, this win/loss ratio is completely meaningless. When I commanded Enweil's forces, I didn't really give a damn about win/loss ratios. My objective was to destroy Riombara. And destroying Riombara won't be done by simply having a good w/l ratio. Since battles do damage to the regions they are in, I preferred having a minor defeat in enemy lands than a minor victory in my own lands. *Especially* since staying put for this minor defeat typically meant I had extra time for looting, which we did extensively, in addition to causing enough attrition to the Riombaran army to prevent them from fielding a significant force for a counter-attack (as there were always enough stragglers in the Enweilian army to form a considerable second line of defense). It was a war of attrition, and let me tell you that despite such defeats, production always dropped quite rapidly in the regions we've attacked. In the Dominion, for example, they had to do investments to counter our damage. So what did we do? We sent a few lone units to loot that region that had just been invested in. They'll boast that they quickly killed the troops, but I'll tell you that these troops succeeded in totally ruining the investment that they had done, and the financial losses they caused were worth many times how much it costs to recruit these lost soldiers.
Riombara boasted in similar manners at the beginning of the first war, because it was very difficult for Enweil to launch any attacks against their heavily fortified positions. It only really stopped by the time Riombara was down to 3 regions or so, really, that they realized that despite their occasional victories, they truly were losing the war. Imo, the post-gangbang war was the same thing. They'd fool themselves by boasting their w/l ration, why Enweil maintained and increased her economical superiority. In their defense, though, our attacks were focused against Alluran at the end, so it was harder for them to see the scale of the damage inflicted.
All in all, I don't consider Enweil's win/loss ratio to have been any different prior to the invasion than during the similar phase of the first part of that war.
Keep in mind that I only talk about Riombara's war on Enweil pre and post gang-bang. The West's war against Enweil was a different story: we had a perfect record in defending against them because of their poor coordination until I went camping for a week, then it was for Enweil defeat after defeat until peace treaties were signed
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I don't think the comparison works very well because Fronen being the largest realm was fairly short lived. Fronen was a moderate sized realm during and immediately after the invasion. Fronen's growth to become the largest realm in Beluaterra came from Bara'khur falling apart. Western Bara'khur became Nothoi, while eastern Bara'khur joined Fronen leaving just the Dyomoque duchy left as part of Bara'khur. Fronen took over Dyomoque right before the war broke out which put a damper on plans for the area.
Regarding RP:
Fronen doesn't have a lot of realm wide discussion/RP. Most of the intrigue happens in the Senate and in other smaller circles. For the average knight, it can be a bit on the quiet side. But, historically it has been fairly easy to become a lord or gain a council position for those that put in a little effort.
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Yes , little RP but lots of intrigue at the moment. Fronen is definitely the realm that has me most engaged at the moment, but it might take a little while for a newcomer to climb into a place in the power structure where they can effectively take part.
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Obviously there's going to be some bias, but there's still more than a grain of truth hidden in it. I'm just looking at general trends that everyone's agreeing on.
The wiki, I've found, is basically hopelessly out of date, especially for Beluaterra.
Something needs to be done! >:( Ill update some share of the IVF wiki soon, maybe a bit of Fronen's but I won't be there for long.
With this new estate system I can guarantee IVF will be expanding and we would love to have you come along! haha I guess you could say war is a general trend on Beluaterra right now.
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Everyone offers war, but Fheuv'n offers you deep hatred of the enemy too!
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Everyone offers war, but Fheuv'n offers you deep hatred of the enemy too!
And instant bans, too! ;D
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And instant bans, too! ;D
I I I I INSTA BAAAN!
The greatest ailment on the market, for "pain in the ass"!
INSTA BAN! now at your local drugstores!
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Don't forget the free torture pack that comes for every new member you bring in :D
*This sponsor message was brought to you by the generous Republic of Riombara*
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Take a dose of Fheuv'n if you desire ideologically charged wars, an evolving realm and culture.
Side-effects may include instant bans. Not recommended for Anarises or Lefanises.
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Take a dose of Fheuv'n if you desire ideologically charged wars, an evolving realm and culture.
Side-effects may include instant bans. Not recommended for Anarises or Lefanises.
I think Fheuv'n will have to change that flag if it doesn't want to be known as Enweil west, Enweil junior or Enweil two for all it's life ;)
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I think Fheuv'n will have to change that flag if it doesn't want to be known as Enweil west, Enweil junior or Enweil two for all it's life ;)
Our flag is way cooler.
Makes Enweil jealous.
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Our flag is way cooler.
Makes Enweil jealous.
I agree.
Then the only choice left is to kill Enweil :p
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I agree.
Then the only choice left is to kill Enweil :p
We're on it.
(Signed, Riombara)
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We're on it.
(Signed, Riombara)
I wish I could help you with that but no free character slots :( and I feel like I don't want to leave any realms I'm currently in.
Ahh the agony of choice.
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Actually, I agree. I WANTED THE RED ONE! Pretty please change it, Chenier, I highly doubt anyone in the realm will disagree. It just makes us look more BA.
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Actually, I agree. I WANTED THE RED ONE! Pretty please change it, Chenier, I highly doubt anyone in the realm will disagree. It just makes us look more BA.
How did "THE RED ONE" look? :)
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How did "THE RED ONE" look? :)
Red. And the triangle is pointed the other way. It actually stands out pretty well.
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Red. And the triangle is pointed the other way. It actually stands out pretty well.
Actually, the triangle pointed in the same way. Everything was exactly the same, except red instead of blue.
One of the problems is that when I ran tests to see which was visually better, I used my own Enweil flag isntead of the real one. As mine is much smoother and nice, there was a bigger contrast between our icon and Enweil's than what we currently see.
Mind you, I have told Enweil to change icons since forever, and they agreed but never did it...
Maybe I can have Ed do it.
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Okay, I managed to get a character on his way to Beluaterra. Now I am in the same seat as the threat creator, which realm does he join? ;)
Keep telling more so we can decide :)
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Okay, I managed to get a character on his way to Beluaterra. Now I am in the same seat as the threat creator, which realm does he join? ;)
Keep telling more so we can decide :)
Come to Fronen. Probably the most glory to be had anywhere at the moment. Four to one odds (bring it on)! Glorious battles (when we win)! Silver-tongued diplomacy (we hope)!
In all seriousness, there's plenty to do. If you are active and outspoken, you'll rise quickly.
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If I was going to send a character to Beluaterra, my top picks would be: OG, Fronen, Enweil or Riombara.
Each of them is on the front-lines of their respective wars. If I didn't mind the long travel times to the front lines then IVF seems interesting.
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I need a vice-marshal in IVF, who wants to help reap Riombara's teat?
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Fheuv'n presents easy opportunities for:
lordships
vice-marshalships
There are plenty of regions to TO, after all. If enough people join us, we'll expand to Kuugl if need be.
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lol. same can be said of just about any realm out there due to estate change.
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lol. same can be said of just about any realm out there due to estate change.
Nah, 'cause most realms have massive borders with their allies.
We have massive borders with rogues. :P
Also, most realms have 20 other people ahead of you in line. We don't even have 20 nobles total.
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Nah, 'cause most realms have massive borders with their allies.
We have massive borders with rogues. :P
Also, most realms have 20 other people ahead of you in line. We don't even have 20 nobles total.
Speaking of borders on Beluaterra. I'm not the most veteran one when it comes to that island. What happens if you try to walk into the blight?
Did the other invasions create blight as well? I don't remember that they did.
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As an adventurer, you cannot. You get a nice flavor message message, though.
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Did the other invasions create blight as well? I don't remember that they did.
No, that was new for the Fourth Invasion.
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No, that was new for the Fourth Invasion.
Indeed. And if you walk into them, your unit gets owned and you risk wounding, last I heard.
Kinda annoying 'cause sometimes you accidentally travel them thinking you are traveling elsewhere or not realizing it's blighted, as that doesn't show on the travel page.
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By the way, which realm did Slapsticks and Kain join?
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Getting a lordship in Fheuv'n is so easy, we can't even find any candidates for the region we just took over...
And all government positions are voted by lords only...
Blows my mind.
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By the way, which realm did Slapsticks and Kain join?
Still deciding here.
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Still deciding here.
Same here, but I'm leaning towards Riombara.
EDIT: Despite Cheniers persuasive arguments that is ;)
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Same here, but I'm leaning towards Riombara.
Riombara is hungry for knights, you could get a good share there ( there are/were (one week ago) cities without knights). I also know there is internal politics going on, if you are into that sort of stuff.
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Still on candidate for the lordship of Eg Tutnu. And even if we do find one, I'm not gonna TO another region as planned until someone expresses a desire to be a lord.
Income is typically over 100 gold for rural knights and lord, double for the city ones.
And still looking for a vice-marshal, which could end up as a promotion to marshalship eventually, as our noble count is growing quite steadily and we'd rather keep the armies relatively small.
And we got plenty of hated enemies, so looting and temple burning is high on the agenda of things to do. ;)
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Same here, but I'm leaning towards Riombara.
EDIT: Despite Cheniers persuasive arguments that is ;)
Despite or because of? :P
In truth, all realms are eager for more knights. Too many died in the last Invasion...
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Despite or because of? :P
In truth, all realms are eager for more knights. Too many died in the last Invasion...
A little bit of both perhaps ;) They do seem to have a lot of opportunities there but I just don't like how far from the frontlines they are. Travelling far for war was never desired.
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Depends which front line, for there are plenty!
Just don't join Melhed. You'll never see war. >.>
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Depends which front line, for there are plenty!
Just don't join Melhed. You'll never see war. >.>
As I understood it, they would stand with Enweil against Riombara, so that frontline is the one I'm thinking about :p
Yeah, I got it. My girlfriend looked at the map and pointed to Melhed and said I should send a char there basing it all on their cute flag with the paw on it.
Needless to say, I won't be taking her advice this time ;)
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lol for Melhed's paw.
Fheuv'n has two fronts, well three actually. Southern Rio, Northern Rio, and Nothoi. They are all about the same distance from Fheuvenem, however.
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lol for Melhed's paw.
Fheuv'n has two fronts, well three actually. Southern Rio, Northern Rio, and Nothoi. They are all about the same distance from Fheuvenem, however.
Hmm northern Rio? I somehow got the theory into my head that perhaps you couldn't walk there due to the blight. It looks like it is so far between Rio's northern city and the Enweil region next to it. Like there was another region once upon a time there that you had to travel through to get between them but that is now under blight. Maybe not then?
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Hmm northern Rio? I somehow got the theory into my head that perhaps you couldn't walk there due to the blight. It looks like it is so far between Rio's northern city and the Enweil region next to it. Like there was another region once upon a time there that you had to travel through to get between them but that is now under blight. Maybe not then?
We actually already attacked it.
The attack failed 'cause Enweil didn't bring enough men, but we then proceeded to do a looting run of the islands.
Which failed because looting was bugged...
But we very much do intend to have more success next time, assuming looting is fixed (again). Really did remind us of when we went to play whack-a-mole in Nothoi, but looting was bugged so we couldn't do anything else than pick off the disorganized Nothoi army. I'm going to be really annoyed if a third bug comes up when we are ready to loot next time.
It takes us multiple days to get to the target, but we don't just stay for one battle and then refit. We try to do the most of our campaigns, because even a defeated army can rally up some strength to continue being useful.
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We actually already attacked it.
The attack failed 'cause Enweil didn't bring enough men, but we then proceeded to do a looting run of the islands.
Which failed because looting was bugged...
But we very much do intend to have more success next time, assuming looting is fixed (again). Really did remind us of when we went to play whack-a-mole in Nothoi, but looting was bugged so we couldn't do anything else than pick off the disorganized Nothoi army. I'm going to be really annoyed if a third bug comes up when we are ready to loot next time.
It takes us multiple days to get to the target, but we don't just stay for one battle and then refit. We try to do the most of our campaigns, because even a defeated army can rally up some strength to continue being useful.
The programming Gods do seem to be against ya ;) Luckily for Riombara. But perhaps they have a story of failed looting of their own? :)
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The programming Gods do seem to be against ya ;) Luckily for Riombara. But perhaps they have a story of failed looting of their own? :)
They traditionally are more looting-shy than we are, though they missed out on a bit as well. However, they only got to a handful of Enweil regions, looting them wouldn't have dented Enweil's economy. Us looting all of their isles *would* have dented their fragile food balance, however.
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So Riombara doesn't loot because it is "looting shy", but when it applies to you, it's a big bad bug? How convenient.
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Its been a while since I was in Riombara, but I found it to be a very fun realm to play in. It some how managed to have a good level of inter realm conflict and intrigue, without falling apart into petty squabbles.
It has been even longer since I played in Enweil, but I was distinctly unimpressed. It has that stale feel of a realm past its prime that just didn't want to change, though from what I hear it did make some big movements towards correcting this in the years since I was there.
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So Riombara doesn't loot because it is "looting shy", but when it applies to you, it's a big bad bug? How convenient.
If it prevents someone from doing something they wouldn't have done much of anyways and also someone who can do nothing else but it, the levels of nuisance it creates are not equal. In addition, our refit cycles are longer, so if it is timed with when we march out, and only gets fixed when we leave, as it did both times, then that means a significant period in which we can't do any damage.
Indeed, we've taken pauses between each campaign to TO a region, but we so far have never gotten to loot anyone, despite the numerous chances we would have had and despite how significant the damage could have been. Hell, if it weren't for the bugs, odds are Reeds would be a pile of rubbles by now, which would have helped Fronen a lot, and that Rio's food production would have gotten a serious dent.
So yea, since we would have used it more, since it would have caused more damage than your own looting, and since their timing were perfectly synchronized to screw us over because of our long refit cycles, it did not affect us on the same level. Rio still got to do some looting this last month or two. It still got to do takeovers. Fheuv'n can't do TOs on enemy lands, and we never got a chance to loot anyone either.
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who are you to say what rio would or would not have been doing if the bug wasn't there? and how would you know how much looting rio would have done in enweil lands? if anything, i think rio had a lot more opportunities to loot (but can't) than that little trip of yours.
you went to melegra. big deal, it produced no food to start with. you went to ajitmon and cjelegy, wow, if you actually spent time looting, you would have been caught up even earlier.
whereas rio had an undefeated army sitting around near the enweil capital doing.. eh.. nothing quite a bit longer than that trip of yours. not to mention the trips through vilrill by others. looting would have been guaranteed if it worked.
in any case, looting was/is so bugged that i didn't even know i succeeded in looting food.
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who are you to say what rio would or would not have been doing if the bug wasn't there? and how would you know how much looting rio would have done in enweil lands? if anything, i think rio had a lot more opportunities to loot (but can't) than that little trip of yours.
you went to melegra. big deal, it produced no food to start with. you went to ajitmon and cjelegy, wow, if you actually spent time looting, you would have been caught up even earlier.
Don't contradict yourself. you can't accuse Chenier of knowing how much looting would have happened in Enweil and then tell us you know hat would have happened in Riombara. We waited 2 turns in Melegra, 2 turns in Ajitmon, and 2 turns in Cjelegy. Then we had battle. If looting had been on we could have gotten a lot further in, but instead we decided to scout and fight an early battle.
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Don't contradict yourself. you can't accuse Chenier of knowing how much looting would have happened in Enweil and then tell us you know hat would have happened in Riombara. We waited 2 turns in Melegra, 2 turns in Ajitmon, and 2 turns in Cjelegy. Then we had battle. If looting had been on we could have gotten a lot further in, but instead we decided to scout and fight an early battle.
This is so off topic it's crazy, I don't even know what anyone's talking about.
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Don't contradict yourself. you can't accuse Chenier of knowing how much looting would have happened in Enweil and then tell us you know hat would have happened in Riombara. We waited 2 turns in Melegra, 2 turns in Ajitmon, and 2 turns in Cjelegy. Then we had battle. If looting had been on we could have gotten a lot further in, but instead we decided to scout and fight an early battle.
He didn't contradict himself actually, his "scenario" about Enwiels actions just highlighted how easy it is to make assumptions about how effective an enemy may have been at something in theory, when you have incomplete information about their intent and exactly how the lack of an option informed their decisions.
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He didn't contradict himself actually, his "scenario" about Enwiels actions just highlighted how easy it is to make assumptions about how effective an enemy may have been at something in theory, when you have incomplete information about their intent and exactly how the lack of an option informed their decisions.
My point was mostly that the regions Riombara could have looted represented a small fraction of Enweil's economy, while the regions we could have looting represented a much larger fraction of Riombara's economy.
In absolute damage, perhaps Rio could have done more. In relative terms, I highly doubt it. Enweil could lost Lopa, Villriil, Gorin, and Yncaalo, and still be in shape to fight with Riombara.
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He didn't contradict himself actually, his "scenario" about Enwiels actions just highlighted how easy it is to make assumptions about how effective an enemy may have been at something in theory, when you have incomplete information about their intent and exactly how the lack of an option informed their decisions.
Exactly, it's an assumption. We'll see how effective our scheme works in the future, then we'll see what fodder is saying.
And it was a scenario about IVF's actions in Riombara. Only 2 Enweil troops followed us there.
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Exactly, it's an assumption. We'll see how effective our scheme works in the future, then we'll see what fodder is saying.
And it was a scenario about IVF's actions in Riombara. Only 2 Enweil troops followed us there.
And more might have joined had looting not been bugged. Our battered army was still stronger than Rio's present mobile. And from what I've seen, you have very little militia. We could have sieged Rines with decent odds of success had we went together and wanted to.
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eh.. you had what.. 3k cs max? the mobile was far greater than that.
do you really think rio won't have rushed more once the looting has started?
there's a lot of wishful thinking going around.
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eh.. you had what.. 3k cs max? the mobile was far greater than that.
do you really think rio won't have rushed more once the looting has started?
there's a lot of wishful thinking going around.
Good old Theory craft, everyone looks better if you just create your own winning scenario.
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eh.. you had what.. 3k cs max? the mobile was far greater than that.
do you really think rio won't have rushed more once the looting has started?
there's a lot of wishful thinking going around.
No, we had more than 3k. Especially if you consider that once the wounded heal, CS tends to significantly increase on its own following a defeat. Your mobile army was a day behind. Looting as we passed through region while staying ahead of your main army would have been completely plausible. It could have rushed all it wanted, you can't move more than 1 region per turn.
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Good old Theory craft, everyone looks better if you just create your own winning scenario.
... isn't that basically what chenier was doing? fact is, the defeated army was out cs'ed and outmanned. they could have looted, but they either would spend so little time looting that it wouldn't have made much difference in order to stay ahead, or they spend lots of time to do more damage, but gets caught up earlier. or they could have tried to rush the whole way out of riombara only to get bottled up sooner or later.
sieging rines? yay. walking up against walls to get themselves killed. yup, lots of damage done.
more than 3k cs? was that before counting all the wounded or after?
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... isn't that basically what chenier was doing? fact is, the defeated army was out cs'ed and outmanned. they could have looted, but they either would spend so little time looting that it wouldn't have made much difference in order to stay ahead, or they spend lots of time to do more damage, but gets caught up earlier. or they could have tried to rush the whole way out of riombara only to get bottled up sooner or later.
sieging rines? yay. walking up against walls to get themselves killed. yup, lots of damage done.
more than 3k cs? was that before counting all the wounded or after?
The Fheuv'n troops, alone, has a little more than 2000 CS after rallying. Since Enweil had brought as many, we could have had double had they followed.
And we were only outnumbered if you considered your militia. Your mobile forces present were quite small.
The militia in Athol Margos and Rines is a joke. At least it was when we passed by.
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... isn't that basically what chenier was doing? fact is, the defeated army was out cs'ed and outmanned. they could have looted, but they either would spend so little time looting that it wouldn't have made much difference in order to stay ahead, or they spend lots of time to do more damage, but gets caught up earlier. or they could have tried to rush the whole way out of riombara only to get bottled up sooner or later.
sieging rines? yay. walking up against walls to get themselves killed. yup, lots of damage done.
more than 3k cs? was that before counting all the wounded or after?
Yes Chiener tends to be the King of Theory craft. The forums are littered with his theoretical victories.
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Yes Chiener tends to be the King of Theory craft. The forums are littered with his theoretical victories.
He's "theory crafting" just as much as I am.
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After the Enweilian-IVF defeat at Fwuvoghor, roughly 3,5k enemy troops made it past the city to Ajitmon/Cjelegy. This does include healing of 2-3 days. Riombara had an effective field army of over 9000 in and before Fwuvoghor. /After/ winning the battle(s). If we would have been worried about the damage the surviving enemy forces could have done I would have rushed our forces past Fwuvoghor and south much sooner. Instead we took time to refit and repair in Fwuvoghor (we had been in the field for near two weeks and had fought several battles) - and to send part of our forces southward via Enweil to block any possibility of escape. Athol and Rines were very much sufficiently defended by militia to be safe.
So if looting would have been not-bugged: Riombara attacks the surviving remnants earlier and looses 1000CS more than the 500 we lost defeating them a bit later - plus we would have lost 100-300 bushels of food. As looting was bugged: We took our time.
Note that Riombara would have profited from non-bugged looting as well. Not through damage done to Enweil (Cheniér is correct that this would not seriously impact Enweil) but in food gained.
I hope this sheds a bit of light on the issue....and maybe it lessens the 'Riombara is favored by bugs, chance and the gods and that is the whole reason they still exist' line in volume a bit.... ;)
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After the Enweilian-IVF defeat at Fwuvoghor, roughly 3,5k enemy troops made it past the city to Ajitmon/Cjelegy. This does include healing of 2-3 days. Riombara had an effective field army of over 9000 in and before Fwuvoghor. /After/ winning the battle(s). If we would have been worried about the damage the surviving enemy forces could have done I would have rushed our forces past Fwuvoghor and south much sooner. Instead we took time to refit and repair in Fwuvoghor (we had been in the field for near two weeks and had fought several battles) - and to send part of our forces southward via Enweil to block any possibility of escape. Athol and Rines were very much sufficiently defended by militia to be safe.
So if looting would have been not-bugged: Riombara attacks the surviving remnants earlier and looses 1000CS more than the 500 we lost defeating them a bit later - plus we would have lost 100-300 bushels of food. As looting was bugged: We took our time.
Note that Riombara would have profited from non-bugged looting as well. Not through damage done to Enweil (Cheniér is correct that this would not seriously impact Enweil) but in food gained.
I hope this sheds a bit of light on the issue....and maybe it lessens the 'Riombara is favored by bugs, chance and the gods and that is the whole reason they still exist' line in volume a bit.... ;)
You still forget that your big army was at least a full day behind. ;)
Regardless, it's a pointless debate.
Enweil whooped your asses on their own. You've rebuilt your army, but now ours is also ready to come and give you a whooping again. 8)
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You've rebuilt your army, but now ours is also ready to come and give you a whooping again. 8)
And it's bigger now! 8)
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And it's bigger now! 8)
Not as big as Enweil and Fheuv'n's combined! 8)
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And it's bigger now! 8)
I've done the calculations and I'm pretty positive Riombara won't be able to pull off a bigger force with their 29 nobles versus Enweil's 31 and our 18. This isn't counting courtiers or priests who stay behind. This is, if Enweil's troops don't go wandering aimlessly around again :P
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I've done the calculations and I'm pretty positive Riombara won't be able to pull off a bigger force with their 29 nobles versus Enweil's 31 and our 18. This isn't counting courtiers or priests who stay behind. This is, if Enweil's troops don't go wandering aimlessly around again :P
Last scout reports I've had showed rio fielding about 10000 CS post-refit, and Enweil about 8000 CS pre-refit. Once Enweil refits it should field about as much mobile as Rio does. Then Fheuv'n breaks the tie.
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whohoo, this topic turned from informative to whining to a my ... is bigger then your ... (fill in with your own imagination)
What a suprice :D
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whohoo, this topic turned from informative to whining to a my ... is bigger then your ... (fill in with your own imagination)
What a suprice :D
Every thread on these forums is bound to, eventually, become either an Enweil/Rio thread or an SA thread. Didn't you know? 8)
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not the Godwin's Law of internet arguments, but the Chenier Law of Battlemaster Forum arguments?
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not the Godwin's Law of internet arguments, but the Chenier Law of Battlemaster Forum arguments?
Hey, I'm not the only one saying this! I wasn't even the first!
Mind you, we'll eventually have to include the 'moot in this law too. :P
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Did I hear someone mention the Moot?
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Yep.
But you'll notice they mentioned Sanguis Astroism first. ;)
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Yep.
But you'll notice they mentioned Sanguis Astroism first. ;)
Yea, but Enweil/Rio first of all. 8)