BattleMaster Community
BattleMaster => Development => Topic started by: Norrel on September 25, 2011, 11:53:49 PM
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It seems like the biggest problem with BM ATM is a simple lack of players, and that characters are spread too thinly. While I understand that the new estate system will go a long way towards fixing this issue, it seems to me like most people think that a lack of players will still be a major issue for the game.
Couldn't we just give everyone one more character, in order to fix it? The vast majority of players already use the maximum amount of characters available to them, and I assume the most of them would also jump on the chance to have another character. While this wouldn't address the direct issue (the constant loss of players), it would go a long way towards mitigating the effects of the decline in population. As Tom has hinted at, he's considering getting rid of Dwilight, but simply adding an extra noble per player would essentially do the same thing, without the whole destroying an entire island's history thing.
Thoughts?
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where has it been implied that Dwi would be deleted? It is the most successful continent in gaining and maintaining new players, as has been evidenced by stats in a different thread.
also, multiple nobles from the same family playing together isn't necessarily a good solution. though it's widely prevalent throughout battlemaster, I think it's something that in many ways takes away from RP and the funness of the game.
when it's done right, with seperate RPs for both family members, its acceptable. but more often than not you have one family member who is active in discussions and the realm and one silent zombie who walks around with a unit blindly following orders and managing an estate.
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where has it been implied that Dwi would be deleted?
Oh yes. From what I've seen from the distance, it has sucked the spirit out of every other island in the game, and it's the main reason everything is spread thin.
Find me 500 new players and I'll eat my words, but right now, I do think that Dwilight was a mistake.
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Thinking something was a mistake is VERY different to saying I'm thinking of removing it.
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Thinking something was a mistake is VERY different to saying I'm thinking of removing it.
If it is that bad, I'll shut down an island or two. BM is a multiplayer game and we may have made a mistake spreading a dwindling player base across too many game worlds. Maybe Dwilight was a mistake. I'm not above admitting and fixing mistakes.
Can we start talking about the idea now?
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I am against this. I would like to have one more character but this is just stupid.
What are you going to do when we lose even more people? We get more characters?
If you want more people, why don't you make things more interesting for newcomers in the first place?
So they stick with the game instead of leaving after joining the game for 5 mins.
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I don't really see an extra character per player fixing things. Maybe make it easier to get to the maximum of 4 active noble characters, but other than that things probably are fine as is.
I know I wouldn't even have the time or interest to play 5 characters in any meaningful way. Four is already stretching it.
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What about a +1 Character goody for a player who joins the game (and stays) that you invited?
I know a lot of games do this kind of thing where you send official game invites to people and if they join you get some kind of reward.
I know, it reeks of potential abuse, but perhaps some kind of time limit could be in place for how long the new player is active before the invitee gets their reward?
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also, multiple nobles from the same family playing together isn't necessarily a good solution. though it's widely prevalent throughout battlemaster, I think it's something that in many ways takes away from RP and the funness of the game.
when it's done right, with seperate RPs for both family members, its acceptable. but more often than not you have one family member who is active in discussions and the realm and one silent zombie who walks around with a unit blindly following orders and managing an estate.
He didn't say to make it possible to have 3 chars per continent. Characters would play together any more than they do now.
Furthermore, it's generally accepted that BM needs drone nobles for realms to work. Without them, most realms would collapse, or be too small to do anything.
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Furthermore, it's generally accepted that BM needs drone nobles for realms to work. Without them, most realms would collapse, or be too small to do anything.
Not really. You can be a completely active, contributing vocal member of a realm and still march and follow orders with the army, can you not?
Being "not a drone" doesn't necessarily equal being a rich Duke who sits on his gold and plots and wheels and deals.
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Can we start talking about the idea now?
Why, the idea gets suggested every few months, and every few months the idea gets rejected. You can already have 5 or more characters.
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Adding another slot doesn't sound like a solution. Deleting a continent would be even worse.
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Adding another Character, however much I would love it in the short term in being able to experience another realm/faction, would most certainly KILL Dwilight. One Advy and One Noble is perfect. Two or more nobles? Kills the atmosphere completely and we can say good bye to SMA and RP.
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Adding another Character, however much I would love it in the short term in being able to experience another realm/faction, would most certainly KILL Dwilight. One Advy and One Noble is perfect. Two or more nobles? Kills the atmosphere completely and we can say good bye to SMA and RP.
The suggestion is that each player get an additional noble, not that any existing restrictions on nobles on an island be lifted.
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The suggestion is that each player get an additional noble, not that any existing restrictions on nobles on an island be lifted.
Ahhh, my apologies.
Well then... in that case it might indeed help on other Continents. I myself have yet to make another Noble but well... if I found something interesting enough or learned more about an awesome RP realm I might be inclined to make one to check it out!
Maybe we could add identifiers such as Light RP, Medium RP and Heavy RP to the Realm descriptions? Would help me make a decision certainly, might help others ;)
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Relatively recently everyone was given an extra slot. Add to that people who donate money now get an extra slot and if yet another was added they might stop donating since they might feel as they didn't need yet another so why donate. We need more players not more characters. Getting rid of an island might help, advertising would help, but I'm not sure adding a character slot would.
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It is indeed good to point out that for most players, an extra character slot was indeed granted. I wonder if anyone has statistical data to show how this changed things?
Advertising is something we've been talking about for years and years. I'm doubtful there is much we can do that we haven't already done.
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I would personally would love to see players getting up to 6 active nobles, but only being able to place one per continent. But that is just my personal preference, this has been suggested and turned down before more than once.
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to be dead honest, it's even worse to have noble+advy on same continent/realm than 2 nobles.
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Or if everyone plays their current nobles more active rather then being drones, the game becomes more fun and thus has more players? Adding more nobles will only have a negative effect on this..
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Or if everyone plays their current nobles more active rather then being drones, the game becomes more fun and thus has more players? Adding more nobles will only have a negative effect on this..
This is a good point. How many characters can one person play, and play well? Three characters is relatively easy. Four can be difficult. But actively playing 5 noble characters, and devoting all the effort to them that is truly needed to make them contributing members of the realm, and not just travel drones? That's rough.
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This is a good point. How many characters can one person play, and play well? Three characters is relatively easy. Four can be difficult. But actively playing 5 noble characters, and devoting all the effort to them that is truly needed to make them contributing members of the realm, and not just travel drones? That's rough.
Personally, 3 noble is the maximum I can play well. I currently have 4 and I find myself having at least 2 being pure sheeple. I would not create a new character even if I could.
That being said, if someone has the creative input and the time necessary to do it, why not? It doesn't remove anything for me.
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Personally, 3 noble is the maximum I can play well. I currently have 4 and I find myself having at least 2 being pure sheeple. I would not create a new character even if I could.
That being said, if someone has the creative input and the time necessary to do it, why not? It doesn't remove anything for me.
The point is that it won't fix a problem. Rather give those who want it an extra char.
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You can already play up to five characters. Four of them nobles without donating. Kick in a euro a week (~$5 USD a month) and you can play 5 nobles.
How many more do you want? 6? 8? 10?
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Hmmm 1 noble and 1 Advy atm is enough for me. Though i've no doubt that that is in part due to the particulars and situation of Ramiel at the moment, heck as it is some messages just dont get answered or a response for a few days ;). However were I to have more time available, I might try another Noble after some extended research.
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to be dead honest, it's even worse to have noble+advy on same continent/realm than 2 nobles.
Why is that?
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advy A finds stuff and makes a deal with advy B to sell to noble A? how many items do you want?
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advy A finds stuff and makes a deal with advy B to sell to noble A? how many items do you want?
Then ask the Devs to make it so that any item found by Advy A cannot be given/sold to Noble A or A family. Would require the game to keep track of which Advy found what though...
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That's a bit too artificial. The restriction on selling to your own family is to prevent using your advy as your item-fixing-finding mule, and to prevent the advy from getting one free recommendation. By requiring the item to be transferred through another player's character you open up the possibility for betrayal, accidents, intrigue, etc. Beyond that, it's really not much of an issue.
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advy A finds stuff and makes a deal with advy B to sell to noble A? how many items do you want?
How can that be worse than Noble A is cousin of Noble B and /always/ supports him to death. Financially too, might serve him as knight or forfeit income to benefit him. Occasionally it also says things that Noble B was supposed to say, in strange possession phenomena. Like a hive mind.
That is why my noble is leaving Kindara as soon as it can. Way too many two-character players. Not that I have anything against them, I just don't want to play in such conditions. It forces the "play two characters or play at a disadvantage" line of thought.
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I hate it when I see players that constantly post stuff from the wrong character.
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That's a bit too artificial. The restriction on selling to your own family is to prevent using your advy as your item-fixing-finding mule, and to prevent the advy from getting one free recommendation. By requiring the item to be transferred through another player's character you open up the possibility for betrayal, accidents, intrigue, etc. Beyond that, it's really not much of an issue.
Why is that even such a big problem? Most items grant nothing special. And most items are not lost because an adventurer betrayed their lord, but because they got captured or wounded while carrying the item. Furthermore, having two nobles instead of 1 noble and 1 advy means you have more gold to purchase unique items, without actually having to work to get them yourself.
Not to mention that most people have at least 1 other player they can trust 100% with these things. It's just forcing useless swaps and wasting peoples time, imo. These restrictions are the easiest to bypass, but it's just lame to have to.
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advy A finds stuff and makes a deal with advy B to sell to noble A? how many items do you want?
They are only items, if you want to deal with the annoyance of repairing multiple uniques, good luck too you,
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That's a bit too artificial. The restriction on selling to your own family is to prevent using your advy as your item-fixing-finding mule
AKA Duke Celestial.
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It seems like the biggest problem with BM ATM is a simple lack of players, and that characters are spread too thinly. While I understand that the new estate system will go a long way towards fixing this issue, it seems to me like most people think that a lack of players will still be a major issue for the game.
Couldn't we just give everyone one more character, in order to fix it? The vast majority of players already use the maximum amount of characters available to them, and I assume the most of them would also jump on the chance to have another character. While this wouldn't address the direct issue (the constant loss of players), it would go a long way towards mitigating the effects of the decline in population. As Tom has hinted at, he's considering getting rid of Dwilight, but simply adding an extra noble per player would essentially do the same thing, without the whole destroying an entire island's history thing.
Thoughts?
Regarding your quotes from Tom, I have tried looking for the thread they came from without success. Can you point me in the right direction?
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That is why my noble is leaving Kindara as soon as it can. Way too many two-character players. Not that I have anything against them, I just don't want to play in such conditions. It forces the "play two characters or play at a disadvantage" line of thought.
Eh. Most of those came from C'thonia. That realm was pretty much nothing but two-character players. As for "play two characters or play at a disadvantage" in Kindara, that's simply not true. My character managed to become region lord, then general, then duke without any help from a second character. Actually contributing is what will help you get ahead, not having two characters.
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Regarding your quotes from Tom, I have tried looking for the thread they came from without success. Can you point me in the right direction?
I can't find the thread, but I can confirm that Tom was making noises about Dwilight being a mistake in a way that could easily be interpreted as mulling closing the island (though I and many others immediately started talking to him about how bad an idea that would be, and I believe he's put it aside).
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http://forum.battlemaster.org/index.php/topic,1235.msg26777.html#msg26777
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The problem is obvious RPing has declined considerably in the game and even those that join for awhile do not participate in it. The old days of RPing have long since declined. I remember when I was in Draka around the time KK got married, RP was every where and majority of people in the realm attempted to rp and learned how to from doing so (drinking ale and being a mercenary). Now you may see a rp here and there but nothing significant and no one willing to OCC: to try and join in. Dwlight is a exception... Im told it's rp friendly ill have to take a look at that when I have a slot open.
Adding character will do nothing to help. What needs to be done in my opinion is a new look to BM. Change some things around on the website and give it some new looks. The game has many features that can attract people they just need to get a glimpse of what is about to fully indulge in the game.
When I am rping I would be glad to have someone OCC me and ask if they could join in and participate. ^_^
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Both Dwilight and FEI are good if you want to RP.
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Both Dwilight and FEI are good if you want to RP.
I've personally witnessed a decline for it on Dwi, from the spheres I'm in contact with.
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+1 character is either non or counter productive, it feeds the players that won't leave regardless, when its new players that are required
sinking an island is much better, i would pick dwilight cause fighting NPCs is boring and the map is too big and SMA bores me
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+1 character is either non or counter productive, it feeds the players that won't leave regardless, when its new players that are required
sinking an island is much better, i would pick dwilight cause fighting NPCs is boring and the map is too big and SMA bores me
Have you seen the retention thread? Dwilight is the most popular island, and the best at retaining players.
BT/COL/DWI each have something special, so they should be kept. Many of the players of the Colonies wouldn't play elsewhere, they're too busy.
My suggestion? Have an invasion of AT, FEI, and EC. First one to be destroyed, gets sunk.
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I personally like AT, but I must admit it is the continent that brings the less uniqueness into the game. Second ranked, bottom-up, would be EC, in my opinion.
I doubt there is much you can say about them, they are as vanilla as they come.
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Have you seen the retention thread? Dwilight is the most popular island, and the best at retaining players.
BT/COL/DWI each have something special, so they should be kept. Many of the players of the Colonies wouldn't play elsewhere, they're too busy.
My suggestion? Have an invasion of AT, FEI, and EC. First one to be destroyed, gets sunk.
BT is already half lost, though, and the lands not lost don't really offer much opportunities for change. Plus another invasion is peeking its head.
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Blue Star, I'd make the argument that it's likely that there has been an increase in clumping. Rpers want to play with Rpers, so you end up with big lumps of rp rather then scattered events.
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That probably has occurred but still I know their some rpers out their. They might not have time to do it but maybe things will change.
I can recall wars causing more rps to be processed but now I just see battles and very few comments. It is just the nature of how the game developed.
Closing a island I think would be beneficial but choosing which island and upsetting a lot of players probably lead to more people leaving and a unrest in BM. Maybe a incentive to recruit new players would be more beneficial maybe like 2 days worth of have sir or lady for each person recruited who stays for a certain amount of time (Month+). Just a thought.