BattleMaster Community
BattleMaster => Helpline => Topic started by: BardicNerd on October 21, 2011, 04:17:50 AM
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I'm not sure if this is still supposed to happen, but my understanding of the new estate system is that it was not -- the duke of Springdale (on Dwilight) (both lord of the region and duke of the duchy) left the game, so there were elections for the lordship of the region. Somehow, though, the winner of the election became Duchess -- while this would be expected before the New Estates, I thought that there were no capitals anymore and that the positions were now separate? Is this intended, or a bug?
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Seems like a bug/incomplete feature. The Ruler was supposed to be able to appoint the next Duke.
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Before someone was elected as lord of the city, I was able to appoint a duke, but can no longer do so.
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Well, of course you can't appoint someone now, there already is a duke.
This is obviously a bug that is due to the new system being incomplete.
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So what are the lords of cities getting called if they're not the duke?
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generically? lord of X city.... XD
think they haven't come up with good names yet?
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I'm a little surprised that these significant details weren't determined before the new system went live.
"Commander" was the title I think was considered.
Guillaume Chénier, Commander of Iato, duke of Iato, Hetman of Imperskoe Viys'ko iz Fheuv'na and Ambassador of Imperskoe Viys'ko iz Fheuv'na
Thank god I'm no longer the banker as well!
I really wish that "Ambassador" wouldn't show for rulers (or any government member, really) though.
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I'm a little surprised that these significant details weren't determined before the new system went live.
"Commander" was the title I think was considered.
Guillaume Chénier, Commander of Iato, duke of Iato, Hetman of Imperskoe Viys'ko iz Fheuv'na and Ambassador of Imperskoe Viys'ko iz Fheuv'na
Thank god I'm no longer the banker as well!
I really wish that "Ambassador" wouldn't show for rulers (or any government member, really) though.
We should probably make Commander and Duke combine in the same way as government positions combine. E.g. Commander and Duke of X rather than Commander of X, Duke of X
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We should probably make Commander and Duke combine in the same way as government positions combine. E.g. Commander and Duke of X rather than Commander of X, Duke of X
Except that eventually, the Duke of Iato might be the Count of Sandlakes, and not the Commander of Iato. Equally, if I understood correctly that duchies will be able to be named in a customized manner (I might have misunderstood), then the commander of Iato may end up being the Duke of Awesomia.
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Yes, Duchies can get any name at creation, though naming it after the region is highly recommended. The Duke of Iato might even eventually hold no Lordtitle at all as well!
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Yes, Duchies can get any name at creation, though naming it after the region is highly recommended. The Duke of Iato might even eventually hold no Lordtitle at all as well!
Is this intended? 'cause when the system went live, I recall seeing "if you get bugged out for trying to do things like making yourself a duke without a lordship, then you'll get no mercy".
Naming it on the city might be recommended, but I think the standard will become, over time, to change it at least a little. Iato might be an eventual part of the duchy of Iat'r, for example. Dyomoque could be part of the duchy of Dyomokia, Fwuvoghor of Voghoria, etc.
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commander is such a weird title.
surely the should stick to earls and what not..
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My Dwilight character is Marquis of Caiyun and Duke of the First Temple. Yet, this only shows up in the realm hierarchy: he still signs his letters "Marquis of Caiyun, Ambassador of Morek Empire".
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I would welcome a different title for lords of cities, other than Commander.
Prince would be my favorite (not to be mistaken with Crown Prince).
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Prince is a royal title, it shouldn't be used for lordship positions.
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Prince is a royal title, it shouldn't be used for lordship positions.
I now see that the current nobility ranks (Knight/Dame<Baron<Viscount<Earl<Marquess<Duke) comes from the British peerage system, in where Prince is indeed a royal title. However, this is not true everywhere, as a quote from good old Wikipedia would show:
As a title, by the end of the medieval era, prince was borne by rulers of territories that were either substantially smaller than or exercised fewer of the rights of sovereignty than did emperors and kings. A lord of even a quite small territory might come to be referred to as a prince before the 13th century, either from translations of a native title into the Latin princeps (as for the hereditary ruler of Wales), or when the lord's territory was allodial.
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from what i read in wikis...
depends on the system. prince don't necessarily have to be royal...
supposedly modern uk peerages go roughly like this.
duke->marquess->earl->viscount->baron
but... would the lord of a city be necessarily higher rank than lord of a townsland?
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We could also play with the Duke/Archduke separation too (Duke for the Lord of the City, Archduke for what will become of the head of Duchy).
Or simply making them Marquesses.
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Archduke sounds cool 8)
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So rulers would create "Archduchies" and appoint an "Archduke", who would then appoint the lord of a city, who automatically becomes a "Duke" who is lord of a one-region "Duchy". Sounds confusing.
Unless you want the Archduke to rule a Duchy, while the Duke rules ... nothing. Which sounds even more confusing.
Personally, I'd rather see a different title found for the lord of a city.
Also, I like the idea of "Commander" for lord of a stronghold. Strongholds are heavily fortified military regions, so a militaristic title makes sense to me.
Edit:Fixed dumb typos...
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My Dwilight character is Marquis of Caiyun and Duke of the First Temple. Yet, this only shows up in the realm hierarchy: he still signs his letters "Marquis of Caiyun, Ambassador of Morek Empire".
Can someone tell me if this is something I should file a bug report about?
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So rulers would create "Archduchies" and appoint an "Archduke", who would then appoint the lord of a city, who automatically becomes a "Auke" who is lord of a one-region "Auchy". Sounds confusing.
Unless you want the Archduke to rule a Duchy, while the Duke rules ... nothing. Which sounds even more confusing.
Never heard of "Aukes" or "Auchies". I meant that Rulers create "Archduchies" and appoint "Archdukes", who appoint Lords of regions, among them Dukes in cities. That way a city would be a Duchy in the same sense other regions are Marquessate, Earldom, County, Viscounty or Barony.
It was just an idea anyway, and I personally prefer "Prince" to "Archduke", ruling over "Principalities".
There are also the possibilities of "Grand Duchies" and "Grand Principalities"...
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Never heard of "Aukes" or "Auchies".
:P Fixed my stupid typos.
I meant that Rulers create "Archduchies" and appoint "Archdukes", who appoint Lords of regions, among them Dukes in cities. That way a city would be a Duchy in the same sense other regions are Marquessate, Earldom, County, Viscounty or Barony.
Given the current history of the meaning of dukes and duchies, I think this transition would be needlessly confusing.
It was just an idea anyway, and I personally prefer "Prince" to "Archduke", ruling over "Principalities".
According to my (extremely limited) reading on wikipedia, the "Archduke" title was almost exclusively by royal princes .
There are also the possibilities of "Grand Duchies" and "Grand Principalities"...
Grand Duke would seem to be a more appropriate title.
But again, ISTM that changing what we currently call a "Duchy" to something else, and then using the term "Duchy" to refer to nothing more than a (possibly slightly) richer region lord would introduce a significant amount of confusion, just so we could get another fancy title.
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a very simple solution is to have 1 title for all the different region types.
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i mentioned before marquis as being title below duke, but above other lords, which should fit for city command.
other marquises in game (who are not city commanders) could be replaced by earls or barons or whatever, but style would be retained.
"commander" better fits star trek, i believe, and "archduke" would be great for religion rank :P
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Archduke is not a religious title, by any stretch of the imagination. You're thinking of Archbishop.
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We should totally have Auchies and Aukes.
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Noble
Knight and Dame
Baronet and Baronetess
Baron and Baroness
Viscount and Viscountess
Earl/Count (depending on British/Continental) and Countess (Earless sounds and looks wrong ;) )
Marquis/Marquess and Marquise/Marchioness (same as Earl/Count but Continental/British)
Duke and Duchess
Grand Duke and Grand Duchess
Archduke and Archduchess
Prince and Princess (Of the Blood) - anyone who was related to the Sovereign except its Wife/Husband, Children, Parent(s), Children's Children and so on. Think Brothers and Sisters...
Prince and Princess - Occasionally the Wife/Husband of the Sovereign but usually just their Children
Prince Royal and Princess Royal - The Heir to the Throne, often given a specific Principality IE The Black Prince, The Prince of Wales or occasionally given a specific Duchy as well, Duke of Buckingham, Duke of Bragança
King and Queen
High King and High Queen - Only used in early medieval if at all, think Dark Ages to long long before the War of the Roses.
Emperor and Empress
None of them really suit a City Lord.
Alternatives:
Demotions:
City/Stronghold = Marquis
Towns = Count
Rurals/Woodlands = Viscount
Everything Else = Mastercard or Baron ;)
Or
Use something else, Lord Mayor (City of London), Lord Castellan, Castle, Governor...
Or Elector - put something like Elector Count or Elector Marquis or similar - Elector comes before the rank. Or make it like the old HRE so (taking Luria as an example) Elector of Askileon, Elector of Poryatown, Elector of Shinnen, Elector of Giask, Elector of Tomscity
Would not work for those holding a Stronghold - they should be called Lord Castellan.
Palatine - put something like Earl Palatine, Marquis Palatine - Palatine comes after the rank.
Hmmm new System:
Region - Title - Form of Address
Cities - Elector of Tomscity - Elector Tom
Alternative City - Lord Palatine of Tomcity - Lord Palatine Tom
Strongholds - Lord/Lady Castellan of Tomhold - Lord Castellan Tom
Townslands - Marquis/Marquise of Tomsville - Marquis Tom
Rural - Count/Countess of Tomsfarm - Count Tom
Woodland - Viscount/Viscountess of Tomforest - Viscount Tom
Mountains and others - Baron of Mount Tom - Baron Tom