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BattleMaster => Locals => Far East Island => Topic started by: Zakilevo on November 19, 2011, 04:39:28 AM
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Never expected Arcachon to suffer from a rebellion. Vanimedle' trying to take over Arcachon this time?
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Never expected Arcachon to suffer from a rebellion. Vanimedle' trying to take over Arcachon this time?
You mean you never expected one at the moment? It wasn't that long ago that they had a rebellion that ended up with Lefanis as Duke.
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Really?
Interesting. Well this rebellion was a dumb one. Arcachon will suffer for killing each other when Arcaea attacks them again.
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I have to admit I did not see it coming in the slightest.
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There might be another rebellion if things do not work out.
Arcachonian RCs empty at this moment. I don't know how the next one will take place.
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There might be another rebellion if things do not work out.
Arcachonian RCs empty at this moment. I don't know how the next one will take place.
Must not use OOC information, I mean quick ATTACK THEM.
I did have suspicions when Lefanis was banished that things might get to this stage, but I expected it to take another week or so if at all.
Point of interest the last rebellion was also during a war with Arcaea, and the new government quickly organised peace with them. They then when on to ignore pretty much all the agreements made for peace.
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You mean you never expected one at the moment? It wasn't that long ago that they had a rebellion that ended up with Lefanis as Duke.
Uhh, vanimedle tried to take over. We stopped her 8)
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The referendum for the ruler is still going even after the rebellion. This will change things.
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The referendum for the ruler is still going even after the rebellion. This will change things.
Yeah that has always been a problem. Successful rebellions don't clear the slate so to speak.
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Uhh, vanimedle tried to take over. We stopped her 8)
Well that isn't what happened.
What happened was a very small group of nobles, hoarded all the gold, then bought out all the recruitment centres days in advance, and when they lost a series of referendums, threatened to rebel if they didn't get their own way, the government didn't accede to them, and they knew they couldn't win the rulers election, so in what was the middle of the night (In my timezone anyway, and BM's) they declared a rebellion.
There were more than double the amount of loyalists than rebels, and basically everyone is protesting the government, because it's just a power play by a small faction trying to use force to take the government.
Basically all the old government will be re-elected in the referendums, Wilhelm will be protested out of office, within a day, or he'll lose it in the election, all the current rebels will then be banned and it'll be business as usual in Arcachon afterwards.
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Well that isn't what happened.
What happened was a very small group of nobles, hoarded all the gold, then bought out all the recruitment centres days in advance, and when they lost a series of referendums, threatened to rebel if they didn't get their own way, the government didn't accede to them, and they knew they couldn't win the rulers election, so in what was the middle of the night (In my timezone anyway, and BM's) they declared a rebellion.
There were more than double the amount of loyalists than rebels, and basically everyone is protesting the government, because it's just a power play by a small faction trying to use force to take the government.
Basically all the old government will be re-elected in the referendums, Wilhelm will be protested out of office, within a day, or he'll lose it in the election, all the current rebels will then be banned and it'll be business as usual in Arcachon afterwards.
So they rebelled during the rulers referendum? Quite silly of them then, that was never going to work. Of course depending on the time frame they might be able to appoint a Judge and ban some nobles before the election is completed.
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What happened was a very small group of nobles, hoarded all the gold, then bought out all the recruitment centres days in advance, and when they lost a series of referendums, threatened to rebel if they didn't get their own way, the government didn't accede to them, and they knew they couldn't win the rulers election, so in what was the middle of the night (In my timezone anyway, and BM's) they declared a rebellion.
You are welcome to see it your own way, but I don't see 13 nobles as a small group. Nor do I see a problem with declaring rebellion at any time.
There were more than double the amount of loyalists than rebels, and basically everyone is protesting the government, because it's just a power play.....
And it wasn't a power play to ban Melehan and unseat Ciann? That's BM.
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I am confused with militias at the moment. We have the duke on our side but will militias join us or will it be random?
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Militia is wonky in rebellions. So far as I know, it's random how they end up. But, of course, the Duke can disband whatever militia he wants...
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There were more than double the amount of loyalists than rebels, and basically everyone is protesting the government, because it's just a power play by a small faction trying to use force to take the government.
I am on the side that opposes the rebellion , but I don't think its a powerplay. It was a very smart(or lucky) operation of a group of a militants. They planned well and they were rewarded well by their taking of the rulership. Just because they succeeded doesn't mean they were powerplaying. Just because they are a "small group trying to take the government mean they were powerplaying. It was perfectly legitimate and well thought of. However, what they lack is the support of the people, and that is why they will eventually fail and get all banned.
This is what BM is about. It is a power struggle, but not a powerplay.
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Yeah we are lacking the support of people without any unit. I think we will start another rebellion fairly quickly.
While both sides won't back down until Arcaea conquers both.
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If there is one thing history proves it's that conquering Arcachon is really, really hard. Okay, it's not actually that hard if you really think about it, but IC I think only Ciann has figured out how to pull it off and she's not telling. Not yet anyway.
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I think this rebellion is actually my best one yet. Had really bad ones before but this one is still going and getting more interesting as it progresses.
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If there is one thing history proves it's that conquering Arcachon is really, really hard. Okay, it's not actually that hard if you really think about it, but IC I think only Ciann has figured out how to pull it off and she's not telling. Not yet anyway.
You are kidding yourself. The trick isn't figuring out how to conquer Arcachon, like most things in BM the trick is getting the team together to do it.
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Soniel makes it difficult, and the long travel times do awful things to equipment. The rebellions certainly make life easier though, and not just in the obvious ways.
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Velax might cook something up.
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There are many, many things cooking at the moment. Some of them might even work.
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I am sure Arcaea will make things much much enjoyable. I am starting to really like FEI. EC is getting somewhat dull.
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I have it on good authority that southern EC is about to heat up again. And if I have my way, FEI will get far more interesting. And if I don't have my way, then FEI will probably get very interesting as well in a whole other way.
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De-Legro, Not so much really. If you do things efficiently you usually need a -lot- less nobles. You're right if people are going to "Blob of Doom" their way around, but why do that when you can drive people bannanas and leave the ole blobbers sitting and starving.
Tactics get people to care too, because they stop being just another foot soldier and have missions and goals. I mean, yes, you need a couple fo good marshals, but otherwise it's a self-feeding system.
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De-Legro, Not so much really. If you do things efficiently you usually need a -lot- less nobles. You're right if people are going to "Blob of Doom" their way around, but why do that when you can drive people bannanas and leave the ole blobbers sitting and starving.
Tactics get people to care too, because they stop being just another foot soldier and have missions and goals. I mean, yes, you need a couple fo good marshals, but otherwise it's a self-feeding system.
More or less nobles, you still need a group willing to go along with the plan. You act like finding a couple of good marshals is somethings simple, I've known realms that would do almost anything for one good marshal, and these weren't small realms. People resort to blob of doom because it can work even when you realm lacks talent and/or activity levels.
But otherwise think about it this way, you are playing a game with lots of experienced players, and a fair few tactically quiet clever people. The idea that a single player in the game is the only person that has arrived at a winning tactic is quite ludicrous.
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De-Legro, Not so much really. If you do things efficiently you usually need a -lot- less nobles. You're right if people are going to "Blob of Doom" their way around, but why do that when you can drive people bannanas and leave the ole blobbers sitting and starving.
Tactics get people to care too, because they stop being just another foot soldier and have missions and goals. I mean, yes, you need a couple fo good marshals, but otherwise it's a self-feeding system.
You misunderstand us, I think. We're not saying Arcachon wasn't using excellent tactics. We're saying that Arcaea can't use those tactics.
Soniel makes a huge difference, in allowing repairs right before departure, in a fortified landing that's nigh-impossible to breach if fully defended, and in forcing Arcaea to go the long way through Ecsetuah.
What also makes a large difference is that Arcachon is a single duchy, and thus everyone gets all their taxes in gold even at the borders. Your clock starts ticking from when you leave Soniel. Arcaea's clock starts ticking the moment they leave Remton.
What makes possibly the biggest difference is a significant amount of apathy in Arcaea, and having people who routinely drop out of marching order, requiring us to spend much longer to get anywhere with a concentrated force.
To give an example of how all that works together...On the last campaign, Arcaea attacked Mnalor and lost. That happened because we weren't going to be getting enough reinforcements to make a difference (less than active nobles), we'd lost significantly on the march (starvation via the longer route up to Ecsetuah, serious equipment damage on the travel from Akanos, nobles who miscalculated their gold and lost their units, took longer because people kept falling behind), couldn't move to Soniel (fortified and easily accessible from Mnalor), and couldn't wait much longer because the gold in Ecsetuah had been exhausted and our units were at the bleeding edge of equipment damage (88% damage after Mnalor, for instance).
The geographic and other realities severely limit the number of tactics Arcaea has access to...And Jenred's pesky sense of honour limits what's left considerably by refusing to use the more damaging looting options.
There are, certainly, other tactics Arcaea could use...But most of them require us to have an army that can move at least as fast as Arcachons, which doesn't seem likely. The only remaining strategies that I could see was, essentially, attrition and treachery, both of which have proven useful, if not nearly as quick as I would like.
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Or you could pin people in place. A small group can draw much larger groups merely by threatening areas, because blobbers want to dominate battlefields. As long as you're okay with losing some people on occassion, multiple fronts can allow for a hell-for leather opening.
Sure, you'll lose all the troops that rush the gap, but who cares (if you're Arcaea)?
During that time thier clock is running and your clock isn't, though Clocks only run if you think of armies as blobs rather then cycling groups. Anyway, I just know how it would likely run from the Arcachon end with the players reverse, but I will point out you can't object with both "Bah, we need better marhsals" and "We have thought of every tactic you lot of thought of, because we have awesome marshals."
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Except there isn't another front to open against Arcachon...
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Or you could pin people in place. A small group can draw much larger groups merely by threatening areas, because blobbers want to dominate battlefields. As long as you're okay with losing some people on occassion, multiple fronts can allow for a hell-for leather opening.
Sure, you'll lose all the troops that rush the gap, but who cares (if you're Arcaea)?
During that time thier clock is running and your clock isn't, though Clocks only run if you think of armies as blobs rather then cycling groups. Anyway, I just know how it would likely run from the Arcachon end with the players reverse, but I will point out you can't object with both "Bah, we need better marhsals" and "We have thought of every tactic you lot of thought of, because we have awesome marshals."
Why would we need excellent marshals to think of tactics? I'm quite good at tactics myself though most of my training was for RL armies it is often applicable. I make a pretty terrible marshal due to my activity times and because of my characters RP attitudes.
If you recall much earlier in the war I did run a little raid group into Arcachon and lead a chase for a little while. One of the problems was with the geography of Arcachon it is quite easy for the defenders to box in raid groups, thus the raid group must be large enough that Arcachon can't afford to split their armies to catch you, which of course leads to the fact that you are probably now removing quite a sizable portion of our active nobles from the armies in order to go raiding, which limits how effectively the armies can capitalise on the effects of the raid anyway. Arcaea actually isn't too bad at running their armies as separate groups, you may recall we had to do it quite a bit while we fought wars on both borders.
But you pretty much hit the nail on the head as to why your "superior" tactics for Arcaea aren't applicable, they rely on the activity and abilities of the current Arcachon group. Arcaea currently has a player group with different strengths and weaknesses, and thus needs to utilise tactics applicable to that. Its sort of similar to saying an army from say Australia should approach a tactical situation in the same way as an American army. its just not going to work.
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Or you could pin people in place. A small group can draw much larger groups merely by threatening areas, because blobbers want to dominate battlefields. As long as you're okay with losing some people on occassion, multiple fronts can allow for a hell-for leather opening.
The only way to pin Arcachon in place would be to either have twice the force they did, fortifications to block them, or rely on them not knowing where our troops would jump. Rustling up twice the mobile CS hasn't happened, Arcachon's canny enough not to end up in a position where fortifications can block them, and our orders are sent to their military command within the hour, usually.
And there isn't another front. That's the geographical advantage.
During that time thier clock is running and your clock isn't, though Clocks only run if you think of armies as blobs rather then cycling groups. Anyway, I just know how it would likely run from the Arcachon end with the players reverse, but I will point out you can't object with both "Bah, we need better marhsals" and "We have thought of every tactic you lot of thought of, because we have awesome marshals."
I never objected by saying we needed better Marshals, and De-legro never said we've thought of everything. Neither have I, in point of fact. I'm just saying I've thought of a number of things, but various factors make them impractical.
And, of course, even Jenred has to bow to politics sometimes. Every so often he suggests forgetting anything fancy and just throwing an army at Soniel, knowing they'll lose, but betting we can absorb the losses better than Arcachon can. But most of Arcaea, for the understandable reasons, doesn't like that plan. Our efforts to end starvation on the route to Ecsetuah became problematic because OW objected to our taking the regions even temporarily to feed them.
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I was thinking why Arcaea did not throw their men to Soniel too. I mean that is the traditional method for fighting a smaller realm even in history. Not the most efficient but it works.
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No one likes being the meat in the meatgrinder. I think it would have been better than what's happened so far, but I freely admit I have scanty evidence for it.
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I was thinking why Arcaea did not throw their men to Soniel too. I mean that is the traditional method for fighting a smaller realm even in history. Not the most efficient but it works.
No one likes losing their expensive unit and all that training though.
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Well, once Toupelleon declares war on Arcaea we'll get a chance to see how Arcachonian tactics translate to the mainland.
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That would be an interesting war...Unlikely to happen in the near future, but interesting.
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Well, once Toupelleon declares war on Arcaea we'll get a chance to see how Arcachonian tactics translate to the mainland.
Didn't we already see that when GA was at war with us?
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It better not happen soon, Ciann needs to
take over help train up the Toupelleon military.
GA was just...a facepalm really, diplomatically and militarily. It's not really any wonder why Arcachon and Arcaea chose to fight that war the way they did. When Selene refuses to step down and treat Toupelleon as the great and mighty empire I suspect OW risks annexation and that may force Arcaea's hand.
That's assuming Kindara doesn't get on the horn and start stomping the south while the stomping is good.
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Anatole, Selene, and Jenred are all on quite good terms. While it's certainly possible for that to blow up (I've seen stranger things happen in this game, heh), I doubt that kind of squabbling will take place without a leadership change.
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It better not happen soon, Ciann needs to take over help train up the Toupelleon military.
GA was just...a facepalm really, diplomatically and militarily. It's not really any wonder why Arcachon and Arcaea chose to fight that war the way they did. When Selene refuses to step down and treat Toupelleon as the great and mighty empire I suspect OW risks annexation and that may force Arcaea's hand.
That's assuming Kindara doesn't get on the horn and start stomping the south while the stomping is good.
If it is a long term plan, then its unlikely they would face Arcaea in its current form, that is if you could even get past the fact that Arcaea has rather good relations with Toupelleon.
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Yeah, the big driver is the fact that there's a lot of OW nobles who spend a -lot- of time slagging Anatole, with the influx of Cathayian nobles, that's where I see the pressure building.
Anyway, Arcaea has to get things settled up before it can go through it's crysallis, and that means deciding on if any peace treaty it gets (if it can't conquer) with Arcachon is worth spit (it's probably not), so it's a long, slogging T.O. still to come.
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Yeah, the big driver is the fact that there's a lot of OW nobles who spend a -lot- of time slagging Anatole, with the influx of Cathayian nobles, that's where I see the pressure building.
Anyway, Arcaea has to get things settled up before it can go through it's crysallis, and that means deciding on if any peace treaty it gets (if it can't conquer) with Arcachon is worth spit (it's probably not), so it's a long, slogging T.O. still to come.
It is quite possible for Arcaea to complete its other plans while still at war with Arcachon. I had its disadvantages, but it certainly is doable.
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When Selene refuses to step down and treat Toupelleon as the great and mighty empire I suspect OW risks annexation and that may force Arcaea's hand.
Mrh? Where is this coming from? Who would be demanding that Selene step down, and why? And why would Toupelllon be demanding to be treated as a "great and mighty empire"? Honestly, none of this makes any sense.
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Even if it did, I'm not sure Toupelleon could annex the remainder of OW. Trying to hold Sashras from Colesan would not be easy. Possible? Even that, I doubt. Still, could always use the justification of an "honourable death". Worked for C'thornia, can't see why it wouldn't work for OW.
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Maintaining Sasrhas would be a nightmare, even if it could be done. Constant court/police work would be needed. Akanos is right n the edge of possible. Toupellon is simply unworkable as it is already. I expect the first real war will tear it apart.
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Anatole, Selene, and Jenred are all on quite good terms. While it's certainly possible for that to blow up (I've seen stranger things happen in this game, heh), I doubt that kind of squabbling will take place without a leadership change.
Just wait a beat, in a month and 9 days we'll finally have the Prime Minister elections in OW again and I very highly doubt Selene will have the support to be re-elected, especially with her level of participation. So some leadership changes will be undergone, though I don't know if I trust anyone else with as Duke, yet.
But if I am elected as Prime Minister, I don't see OW making any sudden changes with Toupellon or Arcaea. Rather look up and think how nice the Dark Isles would look with OW's banner. We may be the only realm to have the power to efficiently hold those regions, seeing as Acraea is already stretched.
Mrh? Where is this coming from? Who would be demanding that Selene step down, and why? And why would Toupelllon be demanding to be treated as a "great and mighty empire"? Honestly, none of this makes any sense.
Also, no one is demanding she step down. It it only a matter of time for the elections to come around again. She knows she won't win - that's why she scrambled and switched the PM election to quarterly.
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Just wait a beat, in a month and 9 days we'll finally have the Prime Minister elections in OW again and I very highly doubt Selene will have the support to be re-elected, especially with her level of participation. So some leadership changes will be undergone, though I don't know if I trust anyone else with as Duke, yet.
But if I am elected as Prime Minister, I don't see OW making any sudden changes with Toupellon or Arcaea. Rather look up and think how nice the Dark Isles would look with OW's banner. We may be the only realm to have the power to efficiently hold those regions, seeing as Acraea is already stretched.
Also, no one is demanding she step down. It it only a matter of time for the elections to come around again. She knows she won't win - that's why she scrambled and switched the PM election to quarterly.
You don't want things with Arcaea to change? Yet you are ready to stomp all over the plans they have been pursuing for MONTHS. Perhaps you should really take stock of whats going on in FEI before you run for government?
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Perhaps you should really take stock of whats going on in FEI before you run for government?
Pffftt! Why let little things like a lack of knowledge of current events hold you back?
Also, no one is demanding she step down. It it only a matter of time for the elections to come around again. She knows she won't win - that's why she scrambled and switched the PM election to quarterly.
Hmm... It was witched to quarterly back before the mass-defections from OW to Toupellon. Was it swapped back and forth since then?
FWIW - I hate monthly elections. That's too often. You either get constant election campaigning because you have an active political system, or you you just have one uncontested election after another as people get tired of constantly having to campaign and vote. Quarterly elections are much better.
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Arcachon is apparently the new Serial Rebellion capital of BattleMaster? I think they have now stolen the title from the Lurians.
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The third one just broke out. This is crazy. Rodiriz started another rebellion before the turn change. I highly doubt this will change anything.
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I highly doubt this will change anything.
Yeah, about that...
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Now we will see a fourth rebellion. Excellent.
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Well hopefully any rebellion from now on won't change the realm system.
How do we revert back to being a Theocracy? I don't seem to have the option at all.
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You don't want things with Arcaea to change? Yet you are ready to stomp all over the plans they have been pursuing for MONTHS. Perhaps you should really take stock of whats going on in FEI before you run for government?
Ha, what plans? I may be Duke, Banker, General, and Marshal but I certainly don't know anything about Arcaea's "grand plans". Blame Selene, she hasn't shared anything with us except the possibility of creating a closer tie with Arcaea which I'm not so sure about, considering all they seem to want is the use of our lands to attack Arcachon.
Perhaps you should butt out of OW government ;)
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How do we revert back to being a Theocracy? I don't seem to have the option at all.
By overthrowing the government in a bloody rebellion.
And you have to actually win the rebellion by force of arms. If the old ruler abdicates, then you don't win by force of arms, and cannot change the government style.
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And, seriously? Four rebellions in as many days?
Rebellion in Arcachon (4 days, 21 hours ago)
A rebellion is breaking out in Arcachon. Earlier today, Wilhelm Altenahr has called for an uprising against the current government. Details are still sketchy.
Rebellion in Arcachon (4 days, 13 hours ago)
The government of Arcachon has been overthrown in a bloody rebellion. The leader of the rebel forces, Wilhelm Altenahr, has been announced the new ruler.
Rebellion in Arcachon (3 days, 1 hour ago)
A rebellion is breaking out in Arcachon. Earlier today, Ingall Altenahr has called for an uprising against the current government. Details are still sketchy.
Rebellion in Arcachon (1 day, 13 hours ago)
The government of Arcachon has been overthrown in a bloody rebellion. The leader of the rebel forces, Ingall Altenahr, has been announced the new ruler.
Rebellion in Arcachon (2 hours, 25 minutes ago)
A rebellion is breaking out in Arcachon. Earlier today, Rodiriz Azul has called for an uprising against the current government. Details are still sketchy.
Rebellion in Arcachon (1 hour, 51 minutes ago)
The government of Arcachon has been overthrown in a bloody rebellion. The leader of the rebel forces, Rodiriz Azul, has been announced the new ruler.
Rebellion in Arcachon (54 minutes ago)
A rebellion is breaking out in Arcachon. Earlier today, Wilson Hendrix has called for an uprising against the current government. Details are still sketchy.
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And, seriously? Four rebellions in as many days?
Let's start the bets, how many rebellions is it going to take? ;D
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Ha, what plans? I may be Duke, Banker, General, and Marshal but I certainly don't know anything about Arcaea's "grand plans". Blame Selene, she hasn't shared anything with us except the possibility of creating a closer tie with Arcaea which I'm not so sure about, considering all they seem to want is the use of our lands to attack Arcachon.
Perhaps you should butt out of OW government ;)
Arcaea had plans to set up a new colony in Arcachron, this was common knowledge in OW when they joined the war, though you are a relative newcomer to the realm there should be plenty of nobles left who were aware of this. The sensible thing to be asking yourself is "why is Arcaea fighting and what do they hope to gain" before you go making your own grand plans.
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Arcaea had plans to set up a new colony in Arcachron, this was common knowledge in OW when they joined the war, though you are a relative newcomer to the realm there should be plenty of nobles left who were aware of this. The sensible thing to be asking yourself is "why is Arcaea fighting and what do they hope to gain" before you go making your own grand plans.
Not at all. There are only four nobles left from OW, in fact the only reason I'm still both Banker and General is because there is no one else with high enough prestige to even run in the elections. Well, there were five total in the last election and two were lords and the other two were the PM and the Judge.
Anyways, I'll be sure to see what my character can find out, cause he's still reviling in his big dreams :P
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Wait, your argument amounts to "Don't take the easy win, because Arcaea wants it and so you shouldn't take it."
Why should OW care at all about what Arcaea's long term goals, they can take and hold a bunch of territory and really, Arcaea isn't in any shape to stop them short of delcaring war, and the risk reward analysis should probably be based on that.
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Wait, your argument amounts to "Don't take the easy win, because Arcaea wants it and so you shouldn't take it."
Why should OW care at all about what Arcaea's long term goals, they can take and hold a bunch of territory and really, Arcaea isn't in any shape to stop them short of delcaring war, and the risk reward analysis should probably be based on that.
Do you even read your own posts? That is exactly my argument. Its not about an easy win or not doing something just because Arcaea wants it. Since Arcaea obviously has an agenda with Arcachon it would make sense to find out just how pissed off Arcaea might be if you decided to interfere. Common sense would suggest that after all the time and reasources Arcaea has spent on the current war that it might not be best for any relationship with them to go rushing in with your own plans. That is part of politics is it not? Make sure you can handle the consequences before annoying your large militaristic neighbour.
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Basically meaning don't shove your nose where you shouldn't :D
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De-Legro,
I don't mean to sound condescending, but you actually don't need to know or care about what someone says their motivations are to discern their likely response function. In effect, Arcaea is currently pinned in their response function such that there is no likely effect to taking, say, Ecsetuah or Mnalor.
If they were willing to go to war over them, then they were already planning a second stage expansion which would result in war anyway. It's compeltely to OW's advantage to snatch those territories and there is little to nothing Arcaea could do about it save for war, but that's probably not an option unless they trust Arcachon to hold to a treaty, which no-one would.
You need to stop the hissy fits because your plans get derailed. It happens, it's BM.
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If they were willing to go to war over them, then they were already planning a second stage expansion which would result in war anyway. It's compeltely to OW's advantage to snatch those territories and there is little to nothing Arcaea could do about it save for war, but that's probably not an option unless they trust Arcachon to hold to a treaty, which no-one would.
Pfft... As if OW could run a successful takeover of a chicken coop, let alone an Arcachon region...
Besides, Arcachon and OW have a peace treaty that precludes OW from interfering in the war. If they did, then Arcaea could just whip out a copy of that treaty, and easily justify a war on OW. Even though Arcaea is not a party to that treaty, it would be the exact same justification OW used to declare war on Arcachon: an untrustworthy, treaty-breaking neighbor who needs to be put down.
And, honestly, who would stop them? I can't honestly think of a single realm that would bother to some much as blink over OW's destruction. And more than one that would cheer.
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De-Legro,
I don't mean to sound condescending, but you actually don't need to know or care about what someone says their motivations are to discern their likely response function. In effect, Arcaea is currently pinned in their response function such that there is no likely effect to taking, say, Ecsetuah or Mnalor.
If they were willing to go to war over them, then they were already planning a second stage expansion which would result in war anyway. It's compeltely to OW's advantage to snatch those territories and there is little to nothing Arcaea could do about it save for war, but that's probably not an option unless they trust Arcachon to hold to a treaty, which no-one would.
You need to stop the hissy fits because your plans get derailed. It happens, it's BM.
My entire point has been that it would be a likely assumption that Arcaea WOULD consider something like war against OW if they were to derail long standing plans. My personal plans have nothing at all to do with Arcachon, Carlos fights because his realm is at war, nothing else.
The claim that just because Arcaea might protect their investment in the northern war that they were always considering attacking OW as a second expansion is just foolish. Besides the fact that the continent would never stand for a simple war of expansion against OW, war doesn't mean we would expand into their regions at all, I would think more likely outcome would be to drive even more of OW rogue to teach them a lesson. Mind you this is all theory, Carlos isn't Santiago and has no involvement with the decision making in Arcaea.
Of course your entire theory is based on the fact that Arcaea is somehow "pinned" in their response function. I very much doubt that is the case. As Indirik noted it is unlikely anyone other then Arcachon would care about a war against OW in the event that they broke the treaty, especially if Arcaea was to promise no territorial gains, and it would be feasible for Arcaea to halt offensive actions against the Isle and go to a defensive posture in order to send a army off to OW.
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Well, I suspect this can't be advanced at all.
I completely disagree with you and think this is a once in a lifetime chance for Arcaea to finish Arcachon off and even then it's going to be a hard, brutal, slog. By the end of next winter Arcachon will be refortified and go back to being a nightmare campaign with very little payoff and everyone else opening the money-taps again.
There are likely fundemental back-end parts of our decision trees that diverge somewhere and without everyone laying out every assumption in some tedious philosophy class type structure, it's not going to be resolved. I suspect it's something around the "Can Arcaea sustain a very long stalemate war effort with Arcachon?" or some modification of that, but it may be more fundemental, such as what attracts/retains nobles in a realm.
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Well, I suspect this can't be advanced at all.
I completely disagree with you and think this is a once in a lifetime chance for Arcaea to finish Arcachon off and even then it's going to be a hard, brutal, slog. By the end of next winter Arcachon will be refortified and go back to being a nightmare campaign with very little payoff and everyone else opening the money-taps again.
There are likely fundemental back-end parts of our decision trees that diverge somewhere and without everyone laying out every assumption in some tedious philosophy class type structure, it's not going to be resolved. I suspect it's something around the "Can Arcaea sustain a very long stalemate war effort with Arcachon?" or some modification of that, but it may be more fundemental, such as what attracts/retains nobles in a realm.
Yes but in the situation you highlight, the stalemate situation has been affected by OW. I would be entirely possible to make gains against Arcachron that would help in preventing the stalemate situation from being re-established while also diverting against OW. In all likelyhood military action might not even be needed against OW, depending on what sort of political pressure Arcaea could bring to bear against them
Also it seems you argument takes into account OW attacking now, which can't happen as the soonest this theoretical OW action could take place is in one month. By that stage Arcaea has either made gains against Arcachon from the current situation or they haven't, the opportunity will have passed if they haven't.
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I'll give you that is something I discount. I always assume that a small nation can go to war at pretty much any time and have troops on the front within days (at most). You're probably right though, Ohnar West probably can't put 4-5K in the field at the drop of a hat.
Well, with the core marshals potentially leaving Arcachon, I guess this will show if it's the marshals that make for the mobilization speed, or some hidden "these types of players" variable.
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I am sure there are enough experienced players in Arcachon to fill in for these so called 'core' marshals.
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Almost certainly, the question is if the engagement level changes, or if it's tied to those particular people.
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I'll give you that is something I discount. I always assume that a small nation can go to war at pretty much any time and have troops on the front within days (at most). You're probably right though, Ohnar West probably can't put 4-5K in the field at the drop of a hat.
Well, with the core marshals potentially leaving Arcachon, I guess this will show if it's the marshals that make for the mobilization speed, or some hidden "these types of players" variable.
Its more a fact that for OW to pursue this course, it needs a certain noble elected to PM, and the election is a month away. In terms of mobilization speed, my experience is it required both. Organised Marshals that are able to generate enthusiasm are essential, but there is only so much they can do if your player base logs in every 2nd or 3rd turn. While active players alone are not effective without good marshals.
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I'm of the opinion that some people log in more when they feel that their character is exciting or dramatic. It's probably a different engagement function for each player, but they can probably be grouped fairly easily, maybe along the lines as to if this is a a roleplaying game with strategy elements, or a strategy game with roleplaying elements.
Of course, I was agog when I discovered people play D&D for the dungeons and the dragons (IMHO birthright is one of the greatest games ever), so my friends and I may be a little off.
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Arcaea would very much care if OW attacked Arcachon. That would be in direct violation of the peace treaty that ended the war with GA/Zonasa/Kindara, and there's no way in hell Jenred could convince anyone it wasn't his idea. He'd pretty much be forced to declare war on OW to keep the south out of it.
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... What a week.
... What a week...
And it's not even close to over with yet.
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Am I the only one to see that OW cannot absorb Arcachon? Count the nobles... if OW takes over all the regions of Arcachon, OW becomes Arcachon.
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Am I the only one to see that OW cannot absorb Arcachon? Count the nobles... if OW takes over all the regions of Arcachon, OW becomes Arcachon.
Veleno totally has no problem with that... Make her Duchess of Enlod, give it a few months, Arcachon II is born.
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Am I the only one to see that OW cannot absorb Arcachon? Count the nobles... if OW takes over all the regions of Arcachon, OW becomes Arcachon.
I don't mind, makes for a far more interesting future, I'd say.
Then again, this next month will decide what happens to OW. Selene has announced to the Republican Council that she'll step down in a week. If I win it, that means Banker and General are open for election.
I have half a mind to vote on turning OW into a Monarchy, though, it would allow for drastic changes within our realm.
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Then again, this next month will decide what happens to OW. Selene has announced to the Republican Council that she'll step down in a week.
I cried a little inside. I had Veleno contest all the elections until now (except one where I was busy), then Selene steps down just as I go away for 2 weeks. Not happy Nathan is not happy :P
I have half a mind to vote on turning OW into a Monarchy, though, it would allow for drastic changes within our realm.
Hah! Good luck :P There are quite a few loyal republicans in Ohnar.
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Hah! Good luck :P There are quite a few loyal republicans in Ohnar.
I probably wouldn't until my 2nd or 3rd term, if I made it that far. Maybe Veleno would be interested in Sasrhas? Provided she was actually active and didn't squander the gold into your religion! But she seems to be the only solid decision I've come up with so far, or perhaps Harkon.. but he seems a dash slow as well. Then again, no one's perfect :P
Now that I think of it, these elections are gonna be a tough time for me, too. I might be mowing out of my parents place and into my own house around Dec. 1st and on top of that searching for jobs in the area. We'll see how it pans out.. I'm looking forward to seeing other characters finally join in on the elections, the last one was rather lifeless.
As for Arcachon.. what's the deal? I feel like once the loyalist's beat the rebels, they'll just rebel again, eh?
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Maybe Veleno would be interested in Sasrhas?
You can ask her, but you'll get some fluffy answer since I'm going away for two weeks in a few days. So although "yes" would be the answer, it wouldn't be fair to take the position and then go away a couple of days after being given it :P
As for Arcachon.. what's the deal? I feel like once the loyalist's beat the rebels, they'll just rebel again, eh?
I had it explained to me, but I don't understand without being there. As far as I can gather:
Elections happened. Knights happy, Lords not happy. Lords rebel, get their guy in. Knights rebel, get their guy in. Rinse. Repeat.
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It's pretty much the Baron's War, come to think of it.
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Rebellion in Arcachon? Why what ever do you mean? ;D
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I like reading these old threads sometimes and seeing whether the predictions come true. Indirik was certainly right about Toupellon fragmenting after its first war, although I wonder if they'd held on until the new estate changes came in, could they have kept things together. Easier region maintenance and more food might have made a big difference.
Whoever said the Arcachon loyalists would just protest and ban all the rebels got things the wrong way around. And I think we all underestimated how much Arcachon would be weakened after it banned/exiled/executed some 3/4 of its nobles. It wasn't even really a fight after that happened.
Ohnar West under Me'hoe did take a poke at Ecsetuah (after it changed allegiance to them) but was quite quickly shot down with no need to resort to war.
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I don't think Toupellon would've stayed together. The food and maintenance problem made it easier for Taylin to muck-rake but the impetus for her to do so would've been there even had that particular mechanism not presented itself.
Toupellon was formed from two washed up realms on their last legs: old Cathay and Ohnar West. There was never really a common cause for it other than 'it looks better over there' and even had Anatole stayed around I don't think he could've changed that.
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Scarlett is pretty much right on that one. Toupellon never really had its own identity. All it had was a tagline: "the realm of honor and justice" or something like that. There was also a division among the Cathayans. A significant portion of them hated that they were part of Toupellon, and that its formation had killed Cathay.
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Toupellon could have worked if it was as originally intended - the Sartanian duchies of Ohnar West plus Colasan duchy. But adding two thirds of OW to Cathay was just creating a completely unmanageable realm.
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Yep. That was one of Taylin's big complaints, and the root of her dissatisfaction with Toupellon.
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Toupellon was formed from two washed up realms on their last legs: old Cathay and Ohnar West. There was never really a common cause for it other than 'it looks better over there' and even had Anatole stayed around I don't think he could've changed that.
Anatole wasn't planning to. It just needed to hold together long enough, and then Taylin or someone was going to split off as part of the larger campaign. Unfortunately, he took off, and it proved impossible to colonize Enlod, and then I had to pause, and everything fell apart.
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Anatole wasn't planning to. It just needed to hold together long enough, and then Taylin or someone was going to split off as part of the larger campaign. Unfortunately, he took off, and it proved impossible to colonize Enlod, and then I had to pause, and everything fell apart.
I hope you realise that I consider you pausing to be one of the worst things ever to happen to BM? :p
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It would have been fun to see what would have happened after the Archanon Peace Treaty of Jenred. It is truly a pity Jenred had to pause, but life is not a game you can easily pause instead.
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I hope you realise that I consider you pausing to be one of the worst things ever to happen to BM? :p
I appreciate the thought, but I would pick a few other things higher up that list of worst things to happen to the game.
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It would have been fun to see what would have happened after the Archanon Peace Treaty of Jenred. It is truly a pity Jenred had to pause, but life is not a game you can easily pause instead.
It...Really sucked. The timing was particularly bad, but I had two very...Difficult conversations that weekend that made it quite clear to me that I needed to pause. Severely damaged several plans I've been working on for three, four years now in ways that are probably irreparable, though I expect something will be salvaged from each.
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I hope you realise that I consider you pausing to be one of the worst things ever to happen to BM? :p
Pft! You have a realm that's basically yours, Sartanian, with a line of succession controlled by the church, and a King who hates everything that isn't Sartanian (except for Velax, he's a cool guy.) If Velax didn't pause, this may never have happened. What could be going better for you? :P
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Actually Jenred would have backed that as well. And Selene quite liked Jenred and got on well with him. She doesn't really have any kind of rapport with Velax.
Plus seeing an Emperor of the FEI would have been pretty cool :p
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Pft! You have a realm that's basically yours, Sartanian, with a line of succession controlled by the church, and a King who hates everything that isn't Sartanian (except for Velax, he's a cool guy.) If Jenred didn't pause, this may never have happened. What could be going better for you? :P
Fixed that for you.
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Actually Jenred would have backed that as well. And Selene quite liked Jenred and got on well with him. She doesn't really have any kind of rapport with Velax.
Plus seeing an Emperor of the FEI would have been pretty cool :p
Funny thing is, you may see an Emperor in FEI, and it ain't Caspius :P
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Funny thing is, you may see an Emperor in FEI, and it ain't Caspius :P
Velax
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Velax
Wasn't to hard of a guess, was it :P?
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Aww, I was going to guess Me'hoe. :(