BattleMaster Community
BattleMaster => Locals => Beluaterra => Topic started by: Chenier on November 29, 2011, 02:41:01 AM
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We should place bets on how long until Sint sells out to the daimons. ;D
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Around the same time that Enweil and IVF ally with the diamons.
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Around the same time that Enweil and IVF ally with the diamons.
Doubtful, unless a greater threat presents itself.
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Doubtful, unless a greater threat presents itself.
Like spiders under the beds, or the promise of help to deal with Riombara.
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Like spiders under the beds, or the promise of help to deal with Riombara.
Non-sense. We never allied the daimons in the third invasion, in fact, we kicked their asses so hard that they were afraid to return. In the fourth, we reluctantly agreed their help, because this way, they were fighting monsters instead of other human realms. Were it not for that, I believe all of Enweil, Riombara, and probably most of Fronen would now be blighted.
As for help against Riombara, that's far from necessary. Rio called this war when it was ready and Enweil was not. It was the first time in over 5 years it actually made progress in such a war instead of constantly losing ground. I think the battle record is still pretty good in favor of Enweil.
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Non-sense. We never allied the daimons in the third invasion, in fact, we kicked their asses so hard that they were afraid to return. In the fourth, we reluctantly agreed their help, because this way, they were fighting monsters instead of other human realms. Were it not for that, I believe all of Enweil, Riombara, and probably most of Fronen would now be blighted.
As for help against Riombara, that's far from necessary. Rio called this war when it was ready and Enweil was not. It was the first time in over 5 years it actually made progress in such a war instead of constantly losing ground. I think the battle record is still pretty good in favor of Enweil.
Learn what a joke is, it will brighten life immeasurably.
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Learn what a joke is, it will brighten life immeasurably.
8)
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You really should know I enjoy bragging. ;)
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You really should know I enjoy bragging. ;)
You really should use the edit feature. ;)
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As for help against Riombara, that's far from necessary. Rio called this war when it was ready and Enweil was not. It was the first time in over 5 years it actually made progress in such a war instead of constantly losing ground. I think the battle record is still pretty good in favor of Enweil.
Agh---hurg...yeh. Af. Ok, I just got control of my breathing apparatus once again. Not that it will change in your view in any way, but I would like to remind you that Riombara had been ready for a long time before the war did start and that we actually aided Enweil during the time they were worse off. There would have been /way/ better times if the reason for war would have been the relative differences in strength....but that does not quite mesh with the 'perfidious Riombara' does it? ;)
At the start of the war Riombara had considerably less CS, food and lands then Enweil...if you call the current battle record being 'in favor of Enweil' then I would happily continue keeping it thus. Enweil won 3 battles during the whole war, one of which did result in Riombara holding the battleground in sufficient strength afterwards to then storm Enweilios. If you count skirmishes Enweil (and the IVF) are even worse off. And if you finally look at income, food production and relative CS...well. The effort to keep your views as you want them to be must be quite a strain by now....
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Doubtful, unless a greater threat presents itself.
Already looking for excuses!
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Are you kidding? He's probably already made up the excuses in his head, just has to decide when to spam every single thread he posts in on this forum with them and his attacks on Rio.
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Are you kidding? He's probably already made up the excuses in his head, just has to decide when to spam every single thread he posts in on this forum with them and his attacks on Rio.
His excuse is the treacherous Riombara. Our excuse is the treacherous Chenier.
Life is easy when it's easy.
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Agh---hurg...yeh. Af. Ok, I just got control of my breathing apparatus once again. Not that it will change in your view in any way, but I would like to remind you that Riombara had been ready for a long time before the war did start and that we actually aided Enweil during the time they were worse off. There would have been /way/ better times if the reason for war would have been the relative differences in strength....but that does not quite mesh with the 'perfidious Riombara' does it? ;)
At the start of the war Riombara had considerably less CS, food and lands then Enweil...if you call the current battle record being 'in favor of Enweil' then I would happily continue keeping it thus. Enweil won 3 battles during the whole war, one of which did result in Riombara holding the battleground in sufficient strength afterwards to then storm Enweilios. If you count skirmishes Enweil (and the IVF) are even worse off. And if you finally look at income, food production and relative CS...well. The effort to keep your views as you want them to be must be quite a strain by now....
I'm talking about wars, boy, not battles in the current war. I'll hand it to you, this war was playing out in your favour, but Enweil had way more wars go in her favour in the past. ;)
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Why do I keep seeing that last post as the rambling of an crippled old war veteran who tries to keep his teeth in.
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I'm talking about wars, boy, not battles in the current war. I'll hand it to you, this war was playing out in your favour, but Enweil had way more wars go in her favour in the past. ;)
Chénier, are you really trying to call Tan_Serrai a newbie?
He predates me in the game. He was part of Riombara before it was destroyed and refounded.
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Chénier, are you really trying to call Tan_Serrai a newbie?
BattleMaster - the only game I know where people who have been playing for several years are called newbies... :-)
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Chénier, are you really trying to call Tan_Serrai a newbie?
He predates me in the game. He was part of Riombara before it was destroyed and refounded.
These details do not concern me. 8)
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His excuse is the treacherous Riombara. Our excuse is the treacherous Chenier.
Life is easy when it's easy.
Like.
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Like.
Squared.
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We should place bets on how long until Sint sells out to the daimons. ;D
Aren't you the guy who revelled in the fall of Mesh/Hetland/Heen to daimons and then evangelised how Enweil was on the side of right long after the Fourth Invasion was ended? Surely a safer bet would be how long until IVF sells out to the daimons? ;-)
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I, for one, was happy to see both Heen and Hetland die. And I haven't had a character on BT since the end of the third invasion. That's how long they have deserved it.
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Aren't you the guy who revelled in the fall of Mesh/Hetland/Heen to daimons and then evangelised how Enweil was on the side of right long after the Fourth Invasion was ended? Surely a safer bet would be how long until IVF sells out to the daimons? ;-)
Sint worshipped the daimons, nobody in Enweil ever did. Sint helped the daimons grow, Enweil never did.
Did I revel in the fall of these realms? Hell yes! But I had no part to play in it.
The only thing I did was locate Daishi temples and nag the daimons to burn them. I just can't stand the faith of giant death robots, nor the people who were behind me.
As for this invasion: Fheuv'n has shared info on the daimons. But while Sint has captured one of them, we never got any word of what Sint learnt. This is always how it starts.
As for allying them, I probably won't be able to find any way to justify helping them for the first time until the undead come. Then I'll probably have to find a way to justify siding with whoever wants to kill the North the most. :P
I, for one, was happy to see both Heen and Hetland die. And I haven't had a character on BT since the end of the third invasion. That's how long they have deserved it.
Hetland goes without saying, but Heen too? Aside from the fact that I think that realm was also mostly run by a multicheater...?
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Hetland goes without saying, but Heen too? Aside from the fact that I think that realm was also mostly run by a multicheater...?
Several Heen rulers made my BT character very angry. I'm happy to see that the daimons got my revenge for me. I just wish I could have helped.
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Several Heen rulers made my BT character very angry. I'm happy to see that the daimons got my revenge for me. I just wish I could have helped.
I'm disappointed that Daishi still lives on... :/
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Daishi makes me cringe. And whimper a little.
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Daishi makes me cringe. And whimper a little.
Evil Riombara allowed them to survive. I don't call it the land of no morals for no reason!!!
I would join the daimons if they only promised to grant me the ability to destroy Daishi...
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Evil Riombara allowed them to survive. I don't call it the land of no morals for no reason!!!
I would join the daimons if they only promised to grant me the ability to destroy Daishi...
You are assuming they want you to join :)
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You are assuming they want you to join :)
Why do you say I'm assuming?
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Sint might fight along human this time who knows. I doubt daimons will just let them ally with them after they betrayed them during the end of the last invasion.
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Sint might fight along human this time who knows. I doubt daimons will just let them ally with them after they betrayed them during the end of the last invasion.
Thank plot inconsistencies, the trademark of the invasions, for that!
The current daimons don't act and speak like the ones from before. Odds are, they don't care what you did to the last daimons.
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Perhaps the Diamon leaders come from a super competitive cultural that frankly doesn't care that much about those that have previously failed. Its not like humans disregard what should be learnt knowledge for example how many major offensives in World War 1 were NEVER going to work, something they should have worked out the last 3 times they tried to breach that certain part of the line and failed. All because a being is capable of learning from previous experience, doesn't mean they will.
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Perhaps the Diamon leaders come from a super competitive cultural that frankly doesn't care that much about those that have previously failed. Its not like humans disregard what should be learnt knowledge for example how many major offensives in World War 1 were NEVER going to work, something they should have worked out the last 3 times they tried to breach that certain part of the line and failed. All because a being is capable of learning from previous experience, doesn't mean they will.
Well, daimons always did RP as being a lot more united than we were.
So did the undead. And you'd tend to actually believe those, because of the whole undying loyalty and eternal unlife things. Doesn't matter.
GMs change, and with them the invaders they lead, which inevitably creates fallacies between existing and new lore.
You could always just assume that the old ones lied, and that's why there are discrepancies. I tend to favor just ignoring these things IG because I know the cause to be OOC, and trying to "discover" the reasons for these never actually led to anywhere IC.
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Well, daimons always did RP as being a lot more united than we were.
So did the undead. And you'd tend to actually believe those, because of the whole undying loyalty and eternal unlife things. Doesn't matter.
GMs change, and with them the invaders they lead, which inevitably creates fallacies between existing and new lore.
You could always just assume that the old ones lied, and that's why there are discrepancies. I tend to favor just ignoring these things IG because I know the cause to be OOC, and trying to "discover" the reasons for these never actually led to anywhere IC.
Or assume that the new ones are so arrogant they don't think they could repeat the lasts mistakes. I've never heard from the GM's that they intentionally or otherwise disregard the last invasions activities so I certainly don't KNOW it is because we get different GM's. I've never even heard it confirmed that the GM's change with every invasion.
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Or assume that the new ones are so arrogant they don't think they could repeat the lasts mistakes. I've never heard from the GM's that they intentionally or otherwise disregard the last invasions activities so I certainly don't KNOW it is because we get different GM's. I've never even heard it confirmed that the GM's change with every invasion.
They change more than once per invasion.
That doesn't mean that none of them ever return, though. It just means that this is the third invasion with daimons in it, and if I remember correctly more than 4 GMs played them. I can't quite remember how many, though. I've pretty much always been in contact with the daimons, so any changes were noticeable. Also consider that there were more than 1 on at least some occasions.
Players get bored after a while, after all, why wouldn't GMs? A lot of things can be quite frustrating for them too.
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They change more than once per invasion.
That doesn't mean that none of them ever return, though. It just means that this is the third invasion with daimons in it, and if I remember correctly more than 4 GMs played them. I can't quite remember how many, though. I've pretty much always been in contact with the daimons, so any changes were noticeable. Also consider that there were more than 1 on at least some occasions.
Players get bored after a while, after all, why wouldn't GMs? A lot of things can be quite frustrating for them too.
You mean like people whining about inconsistencies when they are giving up their free time to try and deliver an engaging story line? Yeah I can see how the constant pressure of unfulfilled player expectations might end up being quite frustrating.
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You mean like people whining about inconsistencies when they are giving up their free time to try and deliver an engaging story line? Yeah I can see how the constant pressure of unfulfilled player expectations might end up being quite frustrating.
Well, to be fair, a lot of these inconsistencies could have very easily been avoided. It's not like writing up a GM-only cole's note on invasion lore, as far as the invasions progress, is that complicated a task.
And some of the things that some of the GMs did now and then *were* unfair, and they were told out by Tom for it. Some had abused some of their powers.
Being a volunteer doesn't mean they should be exempt of criticism.
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Well, to be fair, a lot of these inconsistencies could have very easily been avoided. It's not like writing up a GM-only cole's note on invasion lore, as far as the invasions progress, is that complicated a task.
And some of the things that some of the GMs did now and then *were* unfair, and they were told out by Tom for it. Some had abused some of their powers.
Being a volunteer doesn't mean they should be exempt of criticism.
Its not like writing nicely commented and documented code is a complicated task, when done at the start of the project, yet very few open source projects manage it. Its not about the complication it is about the time, you have to get the time from somewhere and the people that have the info to do so also have other BM demands on their time, as well as RL.
Constructive criticism is always a welcome thing.
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Its not like writing nicely commented and documented code is a complicated task, when done at the start of the project, yet very few open source projects manage it. Its not about the complication it is about the time, you have to get the time from somewhere and the people that have the info to do so also have other BM demands on their time, as well as RL.
Constructive criticism is always a welcome thing.
Of course, there's no way to get back the lore of the people that preceded whoever's in place now, but I made such a suggestion long ago, and while I might be wrong, it does not appear it was ever followed. Personally, I think that if it delayed NPC responses a little, it'd still be worth it. Though I was always in favor of there being more than 1 GM per faction to share the duties and responsibilities anyways.
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Of course, there's no way to get back the lore of the people that preceded whoever's in place now, but I made such a suggestion long ago, and while I might be wrong, it does not appear it was ever followed. Personally, I think that if it delayed NPC responses a little, it'd still be worth it. Though I was always in favor of there being more than 1 GM per faction to share the duties and responsibilities anyways.
More GM's mean a greater need for communication between the GM's which is just another time sink. From what I've seen if the GM's were required to keep crib notes, and also to constantly refer to previous crib notes they would miss more interaction then they already do. Without knowing how much time the average GM has to dedicate to these duties, it is impossible to really say if the extra house keeping would be a burden or not, but from my observations with the monsters in the last invasion, I think it could well be.
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Internal consistency has always been more important to me than perfect harmony with previous invasions.
If you see a return character, you can count on him being the same. But if you see different NPC characters then before, you should assume they are different "people" and may well think and act differently. If you need IC reasons, we can sure make some up. Or you can.
We try to not break the storyline with the previous invasions entirely. So if you care about it, for example, there is a reason why all the blighted regions belong the Daimons now, irrespective of who had them when the last invasion ended. The reason can be found out. It may be important, or it may just be background fluff.
What is important is that we don't just make up stuff. Well, occasionally we do, like when the roleplays get into an area we hadn't prepared. But in general, things have reasons and those who interact with the invaders and in general try to find out what's going on fare better than those who grab their sword and go for it. Though sometimes "fare better" only means knowing why you die.
Our invasions also tend to have "themes". I remember the one (the 2nd?) invasion that had a bit of a silly theme and among other things we had an army of 20,000 frogs somewhere in there.
The 4th invasion had a theme of trust and betrayl, and I see that it worked so well that even with everyone yelling "invasion! invasion!", there is still no peace to be seen.
So yes, there are some inconsistencies, but there is also a lot more consistency than you give us credit for.
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Internal consistency has always been more important to me than perfect harmony with previous invasions.
If you see a return character, you can count on him being the same. But if you see different NPC characters then before, you should assume they are different "people" and may well think and act differently. If you need IC reasons, we can sure make some up. Or you can.
We try to not break the storyline with the previous invasions entirely. So if you care about it, for example, there is a reason why all the blighted regions belong the Daimons now, irrespective of who had them when the last invasion ended. The reason can be found out. It may be important, or it may just be background fluff.
What is important is that we don't just make up stuff. Well, occasionally we do, like when the roleplays get into an area we hadn't prepared. But in general, things have reasons and those who interact with the invaders and in general try to find out what's going on fare better than those who grab their sword and go for it. Though sometimes "fare better" only means knowing why you die.
Our invasions also tend to have "themes". I remember the one (the 2nd?) invasion that had a bit of a silly theme and among other things we had an army of 20,000 frogs somewhere in there.
The 4th invasion had a theme of trust and betrayl, and I see that it worked so well that even with everyone yelling "invasion! invasion!", there is still no peace to be seen.
So yes, there are some inconsistencies, but there is also a lot more consistency than you give us credit for.
Certainly more consistent the the policies of any Modern Political Party. I also question how much of the apparently inconsistencies stem from not having 100% of the information from the invasions. When you only know bits and pieces the human brain will tend to fill in the rest, and it is actually quite difficult to remain objective about those bits. Its supposed to be a survival trait, been some very interesting studies about it recently.
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Faith. Hope in the last hours.
No really, I bet it's that.
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Our invasions also tend to have "themes". I remember the one (the 2nd?) invasion that had a bit of a silly theme and among other things we had an army of 20,000 frogs somewhere in there.
That was the first one. Still my favorite. I also remember vampire armies that supposedly enlarged their army by battles (don't know if that's true since I never fought them). What I liked so much about it is indeed the diversity in invaders and secondly that those invaders were being lead by heroes that could be killed. Nothing more rewarding than killing some bad-ass invader lord. :)
EDIT: The second one was when monster/undead hordes first started appearing across the continents I think, and they were HUGE on BT. :)
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Internal consistency has always been more important to me than perfect harmony with previous invasions.
If you see a return character, you can count on him being the same. But if you see different NPC characters then before, you should assume they are different "people" and may well think and act differently. If you need IC reasons, we can sure make some up. Or you can.
We try to not break the storyline with the previous invasions entirely. So if you care about it, for example, there is a reason why all the blighted regions belong the Daimons now, irrespective of who had them when the last invasion ended. The reason can be found out. It may be important, or it may just be background fluff.
What is important is that we don't just make up stuff. Well, occasionally we do, like when the roleplays get into an area we hadn't prepared. But in general, things have reasons and those who interact with the invaders and in general try to find out what's going on fare better than those who grab their sword and go for it. Though sometimes "fare better" only means knowing why you die.
Our invasions also tend to have "themes". I remember the one (the 2nd?) invasion that had a bit of a silly theme and among other things we had an army of 20,000 frogs somewhere in there.
The 4th invasion had a theme of trust and betrayl, and I see that it worked so well that even with everyone yelling "invasion! invasion!", there is still no peace to be seen.
So yes, there are some inconsistencies, but there is also a lot more consistency than you give us credit for.
I can sound harsh, so I apologize. I already write too much on these forums, giving detailed explanations of my thoughts at all time would result in the writing of novels. I did not mean to say the invasions had no consistency.
There were a few big chunks that suffered in this regard, though, if I remember correctly. The daimons during the third invasion, I think it was, switched GMs a few times. Each time, it was as if you were speaking to an entirely new faction. That was intra-invasion.
As for inter-invasion, the link between the monsters of the third and the fourth was hard to establish, though one could say the monsters are varied anyways, and that this might be due to some missing knowledge. The link between the undead in the third and fourth invasion, however, seemed quite broken. The fourth invasion undead simply said "they were imposters", and left it at that. Again, maybe it's 'cause I'm missing key chunks of the lore, but undead beings that can summon thousands from the dead to fight again for them being called "imposters" didn't make much sense, as whoever they were, they clearly weren't kidding about having all that power. Melhed had also developed a lot of RP with the 3rd invasion undead, and I've heard them lament about how it had all turned into a blank slate. Summoner clearly had a lot of power over the undead, with his faction of the Necromancer's Servants, but obviously so did the fourth invasion's undead, so this break bothered me a bit.
Mind you, if it didn't reset in any way, then people that are doing their first invasion would be completely lost and would find it dull, so it's not a wholle bad thing either. But at the same time, it's less motivating to get involved, especially as the invasions near their ends, when you know what you do or say it likely won't matter next time anyways.
Overall, though, I think that the number of invasions has had a toll on the quality of their atmosphere. Regardless of what you say, people "have been through worse" and are convinced they just need to lay low for a while as the storm passes by. The third invasion was barely destructive, and the fourth was more or less localized in this regard. The ending of the last invasion also felt like a deus ex machina. Many (not I) are convinced that you wouldn't let BT fall.
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As for inter-invasion, the link between the monsters of the third and the fourth was hard to establish, though one could say the monsters are varied anyways, and that this might be due to some missing knowledge. The link between the undead in the third and fourth invasion, however, seemed quite broken. The fourth invasion undead simply said "they were imposters", and left it at that. Again, maybe it's 'cause I'm missing key chunks of the lore, but undead beings that can summon thousands from the dead to fight again for them being called "imposters" didn't make much sense, as whoever they were, they clearly weren't kidding about having all that power. Melhed had also developed a lot of RP with the 3rd invasion undead, and I've heard them lament about how it had all turned into a blank slate. Summoner clearly had a lot of power over the undead, with his faction of the Necromancer's Servants, but obviously so did the fourth invasion's undead, so this break bothered me a bit.
The were impostors in the sense that they were not of "The Many". There undead state was not caused by the oaths that bind "The Many". They were undead, they could raise undead but they are completely different. What is wrong with this, why should there be only one source of undead? So far as I understood it the necromancers could not control the undead of "The Many" they created their own undead forces. Thus the label impostors.
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The were impostors in the sense that they were not of "The Many". There undead state was not caused by the oaths that bind "The Many". They were undead, they could raise undead but they are completely different. What is wrong with this, why should there be only one source of undead? So far as I understood it the necromancers could not control the undead of "The Many" they created their own undead forces. Thus the label impostors.
Would it not be prudent to notice that "undead", "monster", and possibly "daimon" too are generic terms which may apply to different kinds of them? There may cover both different societies of creatures or societies of different kinds of creatures, today dominated by some, tomorrow by others. Say the third invasion was done by skeletons and the fourth by zombies, for example.
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Nonsense, just like the "humans", they are a unified force led by a single will with discernable goals.
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Nonsense, just like the "humans", they are a unified force led by a single will with discernable goals.
+1 / like
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...You mean...they're not all the same?! :o
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We should place bets on how long until Sint sells out to the daimons. ;D
Just pointing out the irony that IVF was the first to sell out to the daimons...
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Just pointing out the irony that IVF was the first to sell out to the daimons...
It would be irony, if it wasn't almost expected.
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Sint supported daimon troops, threatened other realms, protected daimon heartlands.
Fheuv'n offered to annex Enweil to better fight the daimons.
But sure, compare if you will.
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Sint supported daimon troops, threatened other realms, protected daimon heartlands.
Fheuv'n offered to annex Enweil to better serve the daimons.
But sure, compare if you will.
Edited for accuracy.
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Just pointing out the irony that IVF was the first to sell out to the daimons...
Glorious.
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weird thing is... why is sint still allied to everyone else?
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Edited for accuracy.
If I wished to serve the daimons, I would have never allied Sint, preventing the grand alliance and therefore preventing some of the best fights against the daimons. I would also have refused to accept peace with Riombara, and would have offered Overlord to go attack them in exchange for a truce.
That my character doesn't suddenly go brain-dead the moment a daimon appears doesn't mean he wants to serve them. They are just a threat among many, many others, and fighting them is an objective among many, many others.