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BattleMaster => Locals => Beluaterra => Topic started by: Lefanis on December 02, 2011, 02:43:06 PM

Title: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lefanis on December 02, 2011, 02:43:06 PM
For those of you not on the BM Facebook page, Tom posted up these videos. He also said they had something to do with BM.


Within Temptation - Stand My Ground
http://youtu.be/4sCkAvh50Vs

This video screams invasion to me. Just look at the lyrics.

It's all around, getting stronger,
coming closer, into my world.
I can feel that it's time for me to face it,
can I take it?
Though this might just be the ending
of the life I held so dear.
But I won't run,
there's no turning back from here.


So fifth invasion time  ;D could this be the last one?

The second video also runs on similar themes.

http://youtu.be/0Oll_ZaE-r8

So face the dark
And I'll teach you about fire

In the
blink of an eye

Now drink the cyanide!

The worlds collide
And you know
That it's pure filth
That I hide

On these plains there's a burning ruin

That must be found
On these plains there's a demon that sleeps

It must be unbound


So strong references to daimons and the cleansing fire in the second video, along with a passing mention of the blight.

And maybe I am overanalysing somewhat.. But perhaps the drink cyanide is a reference to the undead.

Of course, we already heard about the priests of Daimon worship who have started their witchcraft again... Maybe this is the confirmation.

Rushes off to ennoble his advy.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Iltaran on December 02, 2011, 02:54:53 PM
Thought one: Tom has good taste in music

Thought two: SMEG

Thoughts three and four: Censored just in case we aren't seeing the start of the fifth

Thought five: FRACK
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Telrunya on December 02, 2011, 03:12:31 PM
Thanks for posting it here! Hope it gets some notice on Facebook as well :)

I have no resistance against Invasions :( I'm already all happy for it, whatever may come our way this time.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Ketchum on December 02, 2011, 04:04:42 PM
Can Lich King come back to Colonies? We are having a dull life here....  :'(
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on December 02, 2011, 04:21:19 PM
I was already worried. No "the invasion is here!" topic on the forum. And still nobody has made a "5th Invasion" wiki page. Guys, are you getting old?

Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on December 02, 2011, 04:23:05 PM
I was already worried. No "the invasion is here!" topic on the forum. And still nobody has made a "5th Invasion" wiki page. Guys, are you getting old?

It *is* the end of the session.

Mind you, there were some people up north going all like "it's a conspiracy!", despite the accounts of daimon priests and looting.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lefanis on December 02, 2011, 04:50:31 PM
It *is* the end of the session.

Mind you, there were some people up north going all like "it's a conspiracy!", despite the accounts of daimon priests and looting.

Looks like you have something to add here.

Repository of Knowledge/Submissions

http://wiki.battlemaster.org/index.php?title=Repository_of_Knowledge/Submissions&action=edit&redlink=1 (http://wiki.battlemaster.org/index.php?title=Repository_of_Knowledge/Submissions&action=edit&redlink=1)

 :)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on December 02, 2011, 04:55:41 PM
Ha, no, I'm not gonna write in that.

No wikiing in general for me 'till january, though, probably.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Silverhawk on December 02, 2011, 10:14:26 PM
Quote
Mind you, there were some people up north going all like "it's a conspiracy!", despite the accounts of daimon priests and looting.

Priests are no real invasion force and besides, it might be due to the fact that the only looting report came from a certain family with no scout report as back-up...... It was just to easy to claim a Enweil conspiracy.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Zakilevo on December 02, 2011, 10:33:34 PM
Those daemon priests are like missionaries. Causing havoc and gathering information before the main force arrives to colonize.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on December 02, 2011, 11:24:06 PM
Ah, someone set us up the Wiki page: http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Beluaterra/Fifth_Invasion

Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Zakilevo on December 02, 2011, 11:30:15 PM
Once we get more players after all the updates, I am sure old guys will be more active too  ;)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Iltaran on December 03, 2011, 03:31:07 AM
I was already worried. No "the invasion is here!" topic on the forum. And still nobody has made a "5th Invasion" wiki page. Guys, are you getting old?

If we don't talk about it, we can pretend they're not really coming to devour our livers?  ;)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lefanis on December 03, 2011, 06:15:28 AM
Hopefully there is a chance, if slim, to regain all the blighted lands. And also that relevant information is shared rather than hoarded  ::)

And at the end of the invasion, if the storyline hasn't been clear to all, that it be explained so that the players on BT can have closure (if Bt falls  :'( )

Anyone scouted the blight yet? Any sightings of monsters/ Undead/ Light/ Archons?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on December 03, 2011, 06:52:58 AM
Hopefully there is a chance, if slim, to regain all the blighted lands. And also that relevant information is shared rather than hoarded  ::)

And at the end of the invasion, if the storyline hasn't been clear to all, that it be explained so that the players on BT can have closure (if Bt falls  :'( )

Anyone scouted the blight yet? Any sightings of monsters/ Undead/ Light/ Archons?

Nothing spotted in the blight, other than Overlord is lord of all, and we spotted him when he went in there but he comes in and out.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on December 03, 2011, 07:46:35 AM
I think we're screwed. There's still a war on in the north and it doesn't look like it's going to end anytime soon.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on December 03, 2011, 07:52:24 AM
I think we're screwed. There's still a war on in the north and it doesn't look like it's going to end anytime soon.

I may as well join the daimons today, then, and save us all a month or two of useless suffering. ;)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on December 03, 2011, 07:53:52 AM
Psh, race you there.  ;)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on December 03, 2011, 08:14:16 AM
Psh, race you there.  ;)

You're on!

Either you do it first, and I win by saying I was righteous all the way, or I do it first, and I win 'cause I get to kick your ass.

 ;D
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lefanis on December 03, 2011, 10:43:51 AM
Psh, race you there.  ;)

You guys make Mordred seem like a angel sent by Qyrvagg himself. And that's saying something.

We the truly righteous shall cast down the invaders, and Enweil and Fronen in the process   ;D
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: JPierreD on December 03, 2011, 01:36:18 PM
Daimons have been BTOing a Riombaran region for a little while. Wonder if this inter-human conflicts will end soon or not...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on December 03, 2011, 03:00:37 PM
Daimons have been BTOing a Riombaran region for a little while. Wonder if this inter-human conflicts will end soon or not...

Well, we'll sign peace with Rio whenever they finally make up their mind. The North, for attacking Fronen with such a massive attack after the invassion has begun though? Ain't signing no peace with them any time soon.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on December 03, 2011, 03:44:52 PM
Well, we'll sign peace with Rio whenever they finally make up their mind. The North, for attacking Fronen with such a massive attack after the invassion has begun though? Ain't signing no peace with them any time soon.

You just declare war against the one realm not participating in the attack?

Anyway, I'm pretty irritated at the alliance wanting too much and at Fronen daring the alliance to come and fight them while at the same time the invasion has begun. Bunch of idiots. All of them.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on December 03, 2011, 04:44:55 PM
When did we 'dare' them? We pretty much just want to be left alone at this point, but the allies want us to hand over two cities for peace, which is beyond excessive.

"So now that the Invasion is here you should hurry up and hand over two whole cities that we couldn't take before, you know, for the greater good. What? No? Then you must be trying to profit from the Invasion!"

As if that's not exactly what they're doing. To my knowledge this is the first time the human realms have ever failed to end all current wars in order to face an Invasion. Hence why we're totally screwed.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Zakilevo on December 03, 2011, 07:31:46 PM
The alliance is the one who started all this mess. Can't blame Fronen. Could have stopped after taking most of the northern regions of Fronen but no they wanted all the cities.

As for Enweil we just beat Riombara in Yncaalo and they are running back like the wind. :)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Vellos on December 03, 2011, 08:35:15 PM
You just declare war against the one realm not participating in the attack?

Anyway, I'm pretty irritated at the alliance wanting too much and at Fronen daring the alliance to come and fight them while at the same time the invasion has begun. Bunch of idiots. All of them.

I love it.

I really hope there are no truces for this invasion. Total. !@#$ing. Chaos.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: JPierreD on December 03, 2011, 09:21:27 PM
The alliance is the one who started all this mess. Can't blame Fronen. Could have stopped after taking most of the northern regions of Fronen but no they wanted all the cities.

As for Enweil we just beat Riombara in Yncaalo and they are running back like the wind. :)

Yea, they are running because there are Daimons in a region bordering their capital. Not because of the Enweilian army. :P
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Draco Tanos on December 03, 2011, 09:39:17 PM
The sense of delusion in the people who have a history of being part of Enweil is...  Well, it's amazing.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on December 03, 2011, 09:50:11 PM
You just declare war against the one realm not participating in the attack?

Anyway, I'm pretty irritated at the alliance wanting too much and at Fronen daring the alliance to come and fight them while at the same time the invasion has begun. Bunch of idiots. All of them.

Thalmarkin's stance on Annaej, being part of the alliance, and its hypocrisy for easily forgiving people of crimes 10000 times worse of what Fronen is accused of and being relentlessly attacked for was the cause for it. Thalmarkin was the only one not yet at war, and it was decided they were just as bad as the rest of them after all. The peace offer to Old Grehk was also withdrawn, though.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Meneldur on December 03, 2011, 11:03:45 PM
My first invasion!!  ;D

Always wanted to be in a Beluaterra Invasion, but alas never had the right character in the right place until now...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on December 03, 2011, 11:06:41 PM
My first invasion!!  ;D

Always wanted to be in a Beluaterra Invasion, but alas never had the right character in the right place until now...

Immigration isn't yet blocked. If anyone wants to join, now's the time. Likely to be the last time.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Marlboro on December 03, 2011, 11:24:36 PM
Pretty excited about this, even if I have to experience it through the eyes of a lowly adventurer.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on December 04, 2011, 12:24:56 AM
Pretty excited about this, even if I have to experience it through the eyes of a lowly adventurer.

Adventurers matter during an invasion. My advice is to keep an eye out. Often times advies start finding invasion-related items that are critical to being able to stop it.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: JPierreD on December 04, 2011, 05:48:32 AM
My first invasion!!  ;D

Always wanted to be in a Beluaterra Invasion, but alas never had the right character in the right place until now...

Mine too. :)
Quite excited about it, despite the pessimistic remarks.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: ^ban^ on December 04, 2011, 07:54:01 AM
Adventurers matter during an invasion. My advice is to keep an eye out. Often times advies start finding invasion-related items that are critical to being able to stop it.

If by "often times" you mean "only in the third invasion to date"...

I'm not saying don't keep an eye out, but you shouldn't hope too hard that the macguffin will appear through adventurers. The third invasion had portal stones found by adventurers, the fourth had the Light and the Avatars. Who knows what this one will have?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Telrunya on December 04, 2011, 08:34:52 AM
Just death and destruction.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: D`Este on December 04, 2011, 10:44:30 AM
Facing so many Daimons with just one unique item, the attackers suffer a small morale penalty.

And morale bonuses.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lefanis on December 04, 2011, 10:54:24 AM
Facing so many Daimons with just one unique item, the attackers suffer a small morale penalty.

And morale bonuses.

Pooh. Really not much in it for advy. If my advy doesn't get his third recommendation soon, may unpause Mordred or something...  8)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: songqu88@gmail.com on December 04, 2011, 11:22:55 AM
If by "often times" you mean "only in the third invasion to date"...

I'm not saying don't keep an eye out, but you shouldn't hope too hard that the macguffin will appear through adventurers. The third invasion had portal stones found by adventurers, the fourth had the Light and the Avatars. Who knows what this one will have?

4 also had the books that in trios supposedly wiped out all corresponding enemies in the region. Or area. Don't know. Probably region. Maybe area. Whatever.

You know, there was all this talk about a unified BT religion. And yet...Where is that cure for cancer, Lex?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on December 04, 2011, 11:40:50 AM
4 also had the books that in trios supposedly wiped out all corresponding enemies in the region. Or area. Don't know. Probably region. Maybe area. Whatever.

Oh yeah, the books. We put the BM equivalent of a nuclear bomb into the game, and you lot basically ignored it. :-)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: D`Este on December 04, 2011, 11:46:12 AM
Oh yeah, the books. We put the BM equivalent of a nuclear bomb into the game, and you lot basically ignored it. :-)

Or the effort is just too much to collect all three of them....
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on December 04, 2011, 11:47:40 AM
There were books? :P
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Iltaran on December 04, 2011, 11:49:33 AM
I'll be over there, banging my head against a wall
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Telrunya on December 04, 2011, 12:00:02 PM
Yup, but the rumour was they just created scrolls. My Adventurer had around 2 Daimon Books, but never got her hands on a third, and then proceeded to die.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on December 04, 2011, 12:14:22 PM
Yup, but the rumour was they just created scrolls. My Adventurer had around 2 Daimon Books, but never got her hands on a third, and then proceeded to die.

Depends on the book... I won't say more, because the books are still in play.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lefanis on December 04, 2011, 01:11:39 PM
Oh yeah, the books. We put the BM equivalent of a nuclear bomb into the game, and you lot basically ignored it. :-)

Well we found one.. And despite scouring around for a long time for the others, turned up zilch.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on December 04, 2011, 02:37:14 PM
We used some... Many failed to work, and then the monsters seemed to basically laugh at the rest.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lefanis on December 04, 2011, 03:11:58 PM
We used some... Many failed to work, and then the monsters seemed to basically laugh at the rest.

Are you talking about the books or scrolls?

The book we found was the Book of Daimon Banishing, part of a trilogy. Had we managed to complete it, it would have been much more useful than a few simple scrolls.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on December 04, 2011, 04:51:03 PM
If by "often times" you mean "only in the third invasion to date"...

I'm not saying don't keep an eye out, but you shouldn't hope too hard that the macguffin will appear through adventurers. The third invasion had portal stones found by adventurers, the fourth had the Light and the Avatars. Who knows what this one will have?

Wasn't the arrival of the Archons (pretty sure they were Archons, not 'Avatars', unless I missed something) triggered by Advies or items that Advies found? That's what I always thought, though I could easily be mistaken. The actual plot line of the Fourth Invasion is as clear as mud to me.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: songqu88@gmail.com on December 04, 2011, 05:49:42 PM
Apparently them Archons were the way them humans had a fighting chance. As in really going CS vs CS type chance.

But them Archons were sorta controlled by the Tom guy, because the way to bust them up, you couldn't do it using normal game mechs. Seeing as how 4th is done and over with, I guess I can out and say what the deal with that was. You had to see an archon somewhere, and if you had an invader unit, you give Tom an email saying that or something. Then archon goes poofy poofsters. So like, the undead one was this weird undeadish guy. I forgot what the monster one was, but the daimon one was some demon chick or something. It said I was lusting after her o.O...No I wasn't...

Them books exist on Dwilight too, btw. Mr. Jim has one for Monster Hunting. It's just there for no reason.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on December 04, 2011, 06:25:20 PM
Are you talking about the books or scrolls?

The book we found was the Book of Daimon Banishing, part of a trilogy. Had we managed to complete it, it would have been much more useful than a few simple scrolls.

The scrolls created by the books, of course.

And that was because while the daimon and undead scrolls actually killed many of their dudes, the monster scroll just lowered their morale.

Edit: And because scrolls have a high miss chance.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: songqu88@gmail.com on December 04, 2011, 07:36:20 PM
That's pretty funny though. Monsters have no special scroll to counter them. It reminds me of that story I dropped about how there was magic to fight the daimons and undead, but the only way to defeat enemies of flesh and blood was courage. Or something dumb like that, lol. That's probably why I stopped.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on December 04, 2011, 07:49:13 PM
That's pretty funny though. Monsters have no special scroll to counter them. It reminds me of that story I dropped about how there was magic to fight the daimons and undead, but the only way to defeat enemies of flesh and blood was courage. Or something dumb like that, lol. That's probably why I stopped.

We just brought in the daimons to fight for us. More effective than anything else was, though the way their combat code worked resulted in them never being able to actually really defeat each other (every large battle killed a lot of daimons and monsters from the large units, but spawned a ton of small units).
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: songqu88@gmail.com on December 04, 2011, 07:56:02 PM
That was probably the "incorrect" way of doing it, if there was any correct way to begin with (It is rumored there was, but despite it being "simple", none of us were smart enough to figure it out, or if any of figured it out, none of us were capable of doing anything about it, which is just as lols.)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on December 04, 2011, 08:35:49 PM
That was probably the "incorrect" way of doing it, if there was any correct way to begin with (It is rumored there was, but despite it being "simple", none of us were smart enough to figure it out, or if any of figured it out, none of us were capable of doing anything about it, which is just as lols.)

Well, the alternative was pretty much to roll over and die. Many in Enweil were not very active at that time, so by the time they actually got to playing The Dream, the rewards had been stopped. Attempts to trade scrolls had also proved not very successful. So while mass scroll using probably *would* have succeeded in making morale of these units low enough for them to revolt (I was told they had quite low morale), getting that many was simply not possible.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: De-Legro on December 04, 2011, 11:31:01 PM
Well, the alternative was pretty much to roll over and die. Many in Enweil were not very active at that time, so by the time they actually got to playing The Dream, the rewards had been stopped. Attempts to trade scrolls had also proved not very successful. So while mass scroll using probably *would* have succeeded in making morale of these units low enough for them to revolt (I was told they had quite low morale), getting that many was simply not possible.

The dream rewards were never meant to be the solution, they bought time nothing else. The two solutions I can see that were possible were the books that advies could find, and the light. Mind you both are just guesses.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on December 04, 2011, 11:49:15 PM
The dream rewards were never meant to be the solution, they bought time nothing else. The two solutions I can see that were possible were the books that advies could find, and the light. Mind you both are just guesses.


OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH, THOSE BOOKS!

I was getting confused over things.

Okay, to clarify, I never got three books of any kind. I tried, but never found enough trading partners, and most advies jealously kept their books anyways. After all, who would want to give his book to someone else? Everyone obviously desired to get the three himself. And the seemed soooo rare.

Plus, the description hinted they did little more than help the advy when he hunts monsters. Others have suggested it was much more useful and powerful than that, but the IG description did not.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: ^ban^ on December 04, 2011, 11:52:58 PM
The scrolls created by the books, of course.

And that was because while the daimon and undead scrolls actually killed many of their dudes, the monster scroll just lowered their morale.

Edit: And because scrolls have a high miss chance.

There is a relationship between the effects of a scroll and the nature of the invaders.

Daimons are banished.
Undead are burned*.
Monsters, as beings that aren't supernatural, were subject to immense fear.

So while mass scroll using probably *would* have succeeded in making morale of these units low enough for them to revolt (I was told they had quite low morale), getting that many was simply not possible.

Low morale means early and disorganized retreats. The monsters lost thousands of troops because of morale.

Wasn't the arrival of the Archons (pretty sure they were Archons, not 'Avatars', unless I missed something) triggered by Advies or items that Advies found? That's what I always thought, though I could easily be mistaken. The actual plot line of the Fourth Invasion is as clear as mud to me.

"Archon" was a word adopted to refer to the priests of the Light. Avatars were different and appeared only at the very end of the invasion. They had... very large effects on the invasion forces and were more or less why all three forces sputtered out as they did.

"Archon" was a word adopted to refer to both the priests of the Light and creatures that appeared only towards the very end of the invasion. They had... very large effects on the invasion forces and were more or less why all three forces sputtered out as they did.

Edit: Oh wow did I ever get that wrong.

*Because of the nature of the Many, scrolls were particularly ineffective against them and merely 'dissociated' the troops.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: De-Legro on December 05, 2011, 12:25:17 AM

OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH, THOSE BOOKS!

I was getting confused over things.

Okay, to clarify, I never got three books of any kind. I tried, but never found enough trading partners, and most advies jealously kept their books anyways. After all, who would want to give his book to someone else? Everyone obviously desired to get the three himself. And the seemed soooo rare.

Plus, the description hinted they did little more than help the advy when he hunts monsters. Others have suggested it was much more useful and powerful than that, but the IG description did not.

I don't remember why, but we in DoA were convinced the books were the answer. Yes we had trouble trying to actually get them though, but then that is the breaks. Invasions are meant to be stopped by cooperation, if the advies don't want to cooperate then that solution won't be viable due to player choices, just as other players choices rendered any possible solution revolving around the light quiet difficult. The GM's provide the options, it is up to the player based to utilise them.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: songqu88@gmail.com on December 05, 2011, 12:55:57 AM
I was under the rumored impressionable half-truth that it might have been possible, but neither affirmed nor denied, that adventurers playing the Dream got books instead of scrolls. Seeing as how the noble game gets all the attention, it is unsurprising that this is based only on the gossip of girls who are not named Gilmore.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on December 05, 2011, 01:01:19 AM
Exactly. All invasions since the 3rd (the first two were really just for entertainment, I never thought to have the invaders win) can be won or lost, with consequences. I am fully willing to sink the island if the players mess up too badly.

Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on December 05, 2011, 01:01:55 AM
I was under the rumored impressionable half-truth that it might have been possible, but neither affirmed nor denied, that adventurers playing the Dream got books instead of scrolls. Seeing as how the noble game gets all the attention, it is unsurprising that this is based only on the gossip of girls who are not named Gilmore.

I might be remembering incorrectly, but didn't *adventurers* get the scrolls when you finished The Dream, if you had one on BT?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: songqu88@gmail.com on December 05, 2011, 01:03:00 AM
With the combined stuff of the Prophets, the Dream, the Light, and finally the Archons, it seemed a lot like Mr. Tom was trying to throw as many bones to the players as possible to have the humans prevail though. And yet...they still managed to lose a ton of land. Good gosh stuff was lols back then.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on December 05, 2011, 01:05:57 AM
With the combined stuff of the Prophets, the Dream, the Light, and finally the Archons, it seemed a lot like Mr. Tom was trying to throw as many bones to the players as possible to have the humans prevail though. And yet...they still managed to lose a ton of land. Good gosh stuff was lols back then.

And the end just felt like Tom saying "okay, I'm tired of this invasion, let's stop it with a happy ending".

Nobody really understood what the hell was going on, and then all of a sudden, no more invaders. "And there was much rejoicing".
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: JPierreD on December 05, 2011, 04:41:42 AM
Exactly. All invasions since the 3rd (the first two were really just for entertainment, I never thought to have the invaders win) can be won or lost, with consequences. I am fully willing to sink the island if the players mess up too badly.

Nice, so defeat is not a certainty. I like that.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: De-Legro on December 05, 2011, 04:53:07 AM
And the end just felt like Tom saying "okay, I'm tired of this invasion, let's stop it with a happy ending".

Nobody really understood what the hell was going on, and then all of a sudden, no more invaders. "And there was much rejoicing".

Really? How many people are happy with the state BT was left in really?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on December 05, 2011, 05:51:36 AM
Really? How many people are happy with the state BT was left in really?

The last was a joke. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enSYlCEz5VI
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on December 05, 2011, 02:37:55 PM
And the end just felt like Tom saying "okay, I'm tired of this invasion, let's stop it with a happy ending".

Nobody really understood what the hell was going on, and then all of a sudden, no more invaders. "And there was much rejoicing".

Yes, it did rather feel like that. The Archons just appeared out of the blue one day and everything ended quite quickly thereafter, but there was never any reason given for their appearance. I'm sure there *is* one, but I suspect that virtually no one actually knows what it is. It was fairly anti-climactic.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: songqu88@gmail.com on December 05, 2011, 03:19:44 PM
Tom: BT can die in 4th Inv if you all mess up.
Everyone else: Oh shi-

*Stuff happens, 4th Inv ends*

Everyone else: Ha, phew, almost had us there Tom. Now let's see how to get rid of the Blight.
Tom: Not a chance in 2011.

*Everyone else keeps trying. Eventually this dude named Artemesia does figure out a way*

Artemesia: Huh, I be duke of Latlan lol.
Bunch of other dudes: WTF?!
Anaris: Dude, stop messing around.
Artemesia: :( Ok.

*More stuff happens, like Fronen being a collective idiot. Other stuff, like some really long realm name. Some daimon priest dudes stuff appear.*

Tom: Ok, 5th Inv coming soon to a theater near you.
Everyone else: OMGWTFBBW
Tom: And if you mess up you can lose BT.
Everyone else: Sounds familiar...

(Disclaimer: All dialogue is fictional. Any relation to reality is purely coincidental.)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Indirik on December 05, 2011, 03:47:49 PM
Everyone else: OMGWTFBBW
;D This is the funniest line in the whole thing. I still can't figure out if it was intentional or not...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on December 05, 2011, 03:59:49 PM
Tom: And if you mess up you can lose BT.
Everyone else: Sounds familiar...

Well, if anything than the blight should prove that I'm not above permanent changes.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Solari on December 05, 2011, 04:46:07 PM
I am fully willing to sink the island if the players mess up too badly.

The ROOF,
The ROOF,
The ROOF is on FIRE!

We don't need no water,
Let the mother%&#^%! BURN,
BURN mother%&#^%, BURN!
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on December 05, 2011, 05:06:55 PM
Tom: Ok, 5th Inv coming soon to a theater near you.
Everyone else: OMGWTFBBW
Tom: And if you mess up you can lose BT.
Everyone else: Sounds familiar...

(Disclaimer: All dialogue is fictional. Any relation to reality is purely coincidental.)

I assumed it could be the end. But Tom didn't send an official announcement this time, as he did with others, so I'm not sure where you got "and if you mess up you can lose BT". I'm sure it's implied, but still. He's been unusually silent on this one, compared to the others I've been in.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on December 05, 2011, 05:07:48 PM
Well, if anything than the blight should prove that I'm not above permanent changes.

You'd be amazed at how many people are convinced that they will recover the blight thanks to this invasion. ;)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Telrunya on December 05, 2011, 05:10:17 PM
You'd be amazed at how wrong they will be ;D
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on December 05, 2011, 05:32:48 PM
You'd be amazed at how wrong they will be ;D

If only the daimons's offers were a bit more interesting than "eternal slavery"... I urge to finally do what my characters have been accused of for all these years.

I'm also afraid of siding with the daimons and ending up realizing that they were telling the truth, and that I inadvertently helped them save Beluaterra from the big bad undead. Saving the continent by trying to destroy it, how much would that suck! ;D
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: songqu88@gmail.com on December 05, 2011, 06:05:36 PM
Power of faith?

...Watch, it'll come to naught.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Marlboro on December 05, 2011, 07:51:32 PM
You'd be amazed at how wrong they will be ;D
Always hopeful yet discontent,
He knows changes aren't permanent.
But change is.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Huntsmaster on December 06, 2011, 04:56:31 AM
Always hopeful yet discontent,
He knows changes aren't permanent.
But change is.

haikus about blight
spreading on Beluaterra
is this the far east?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: songqu88@gmail.com on December 06, 2011, 04:46:04 PM
Why all this talk now?
This has been ongoing since
A long time ago.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Revan on December 07, 2011, 01:31:48 AM
I was already worried. No "the invasion is here!" topic on the forum. And still nobody has made a "5th Invasion" wiki page. Guys, are you getting old?

The only thing I thought when I saw those videos on G+ was 'Damn, it's been too long since I listened to music like this!' Quite enjoyed that introduction to Deathstars :-P
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on December 07, 2011, 07:05:54 PM
So what gives with the undead in the Fifth Invasion? I thought they were the big winners of the Fourth, but the daimons are making it sound like they spanked them out in the blight in between Invasions.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: songqu88@gmail.com on December 07, 2011, 07:10:05 PM
So what gives with the undead in the Fifth Invasion? I thought they were the big winners of the Fourth, but the daimons are making it sound like they spanked them out in the blight in between Invasions.

There was no clear victor I thought. There was just Mr. Joe guy talking about how the Undead managed some big bad uber secret ultimaticoawesomesauceness plan. Maybe. Who knows. Don't care, probably won't matter now.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Telrunya on December 07, 2011, 07:20:40 PM
Haven't heard much from the Daimons yet.

And looking at previous Invasions, much can still happen with the Undead!
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on December 07, 2011, 07:35:44 PM
So what gives with the undead in the Fifth Invasion? I thought they were the big winners of the Fourth, but the daimons are making it sound like they spanked them out in the blight in between Invasions.

Overlord has stated that the daimons have won the "costly battles" in the blight, I got the impression their main opponent were the undead and they did not like the allies of the undead.
Anyway, he also basically said he's out to destroy mankind, only his sons seem to want to save some of them. All they have to do is join the dominion...

So far the huge battle count stands 3 humans - 3 daimons. I've got a feeling this is going to get much much worse though. :)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Telrunya on December 07, 2011, 07:41:15 PM
These are just small scouting forces to show the Invasion has started. The real forces come later :P
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on December 07, 2011, 07:51:01 PM
There was no clear victor I thought. There was just Mr. Joe guy talking about how the Undead managed some big bad uber secret ultimaticoawesomesauceness plan. Maybe. Who knows. Don't care, probably won't matter now.

I direct you to this quote:

Bwuahahaha... merciful. The undead. You've not seen the Beyond trailer yet, have you? Merciful. That made my day. Still laughing from that. Oh, dear creation.

Try: So cunning that even now you don't realize the full extent of their victory.

From this I would have thought to see much more of an undead presence in the Fifth Invasion.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on December 07, 2011, 07:52:00 PM
I expect they're just delayed. :)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on December 07, 2011, 08:00:32 PM
Well, there is a consistency issue here because Beyond did not happen. So I have to bring in the storyline from it somehow else, without revealing all of it, in case it does happen, later on. I still want it to happen.

Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on December 07, 2011, 08:08:48 PM
Well, there is a consistency issue here because Beyond did not happen. So I have to bring in the storyline from it somehow else, without revealing all of it, in case it does happen, later on. I still want it to happen.

Ah, thanks for that clarification. That's been nagging at me. A one-invader invasion (if it remains so) should be quite interesting. No attempting to play one side against the other... Unless of course the Sons decide to take on the Father...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on December 07, 2011, 08:40:35 PM
Well, there is a consistency issue here because Beyond did not happen. So I have to bring in the storyline from it somehow else, without revealing all of it, in case it does happen, later on. I still want it to happen.

Oh well, there's always next invasion! ;)

*fingers crossed*
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on December 08, 2011, 03:05:28 AM
I direct you to this quote:

From this I would have thought to see much more of an undead presence in the Fifth Invasion.

So the undead accomplished their big secret agenda...

And look what *that* gave them. I guess it wasn't a big deal after all. ;)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on December 08, 2011, 05:51:32 AM
So the undead accomplished their big secret agenda...

And look what *that* gave them. I guess it wasn't a big deal after all. ;)

We won't find out until Beyond arrives or Tom decides to spill the beans anyway, heh.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: songqu88@gmail.com on December 08, 2011, 10:44:05 AM
Twelve silver coins which equals one gold coin says that despite it all, anything we learn will either be so dense that none of us gets it, except for the people who wrote it and/or people who decide to be jerks and thumb their noses while the rest of the players much like themselves wallow in confusion, or so simple that none of us even care to entertain the thought. Both of which result in none of the "normal" players knowing anything.

But that's also the real world too, so it's a good reflection of that.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Jens Namtrah on December 08, 2011, 11:26:51 AM
Twelve silver coins which equals one gold coin says that despite it all, anything we learn will either be so dense that none of us gets it, except for the people who wrote it and/or people who decide to be jerks and thumb their noses while the rest of the players much like themselves wallow in confusion, or so simple that none of us even care to entertain the thought. Both of which result in none of the "normal" players knowing anything.

But that's also the real world too, so it's a good reflection of that.

Time for "Occupy Beluaterra"
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Silverhawk on December 08, 2011, 11:33:37 AM
Quote
From this I would have thought to see much more of an undead presence in the Fifth Invasion.

Come on, isn't it obvius? Undead Daimons....

It's not as if anyone checked if they where alive or undead :P
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on December 08, 2011, 12:04:06 PM
Twelve silver coins which equals one gold coin says that despite it all, anything we learn will either be so dense that none of us gets it, except for the people who wrote it and/or people who decide to be jerks and thumb their noses while the rest of the players much like themselves wallow in confusion, or so simple that none of us even care to entertain the thought. Both of which result in none of the "normal" players knowing anything.

Oh, you'll know. Didn't you read what I wrote about "themes"? In the 4th invasion, all the confusion was pretty much part of the plan, because confusion is what builds distrust and distrust is what you need for seperating people from each other, and seperation is what you need to draw them into your scheme, and drawing them in is what you need to betray them.

Betrayl isn't the theme anymore.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: songqu88@gmail.com on December 08, 2011, 01:17:23 PM
1st Inv: Huh? Wut? This can't be happening.

2nd Inv: Guidedangit not again! Stupid damn frogs!

3rd Inv: Yo Prudent, I'll give you some nice items if you stop messing around.

4th Inv: We...just screwed ourselves...We were so stupid...There's no point anymore...

5th Inv: Ah well, guess this is the end. It was a good life.

6th Inv: Oh hey, so this is what the afterlife looks like.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on December 08, 2011, 01:21:13 PM
Come on, isn't it obvius? Undead Daimons....

It's not as if anyone checked if they where alive or undead :P

That's not true... when I wounded the Nightfall of the North the blood surely gushed out on the rhythm of a heartbeat.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lefanis on December 08, 2011, 01:25:09 PM
Looks like the theme is  kill! kill! kill!


The signpost on Daimon Worship temple read like this- [censored by Tom]
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Anaris on December 08, 2011, 02:58:30 PM
1st Inv: Huh? Wut? This can't be happening.

2nd Inv: Guidedangit not again! Stupid damn frogs!

3rd Inv: Yo Prudent, I'll give you some nice items if you stop messing around.

4th Inv: We...just screwed ourselves...We were so stupid...There's no point anymore...

5th Inv: Ah well, guess this is the end. It was a good life.

6th Inv: Oh hey, so this is what the afterlife looks like.

Wait...

Was that meant to be the invasions, or the seasons of Lost?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: songqu88@gmail.com on December 08, 2011, 03:28:02 PM
There was a difference?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on December 08, 2011, 03:46:32 PM
Wait...

Was that meant to be the invasions, or the seasons of Lost?

Nice catch... I hope the BT story has a better ending though.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: songqu88@gmail.com on December 08, 2011, 04:07:33 PM
Duh, the Blight is a form of the smoke monster, and the daimons are the ones who watch over the progress of it. Think of BT as a really long ago prequel to Lost, when the architecture is being built for the future weird island thing.

And that means the Invasions will conclude in a "climax" at a temple...church...well, there are only temples in BM, but the point is the same.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on December 08, 2011, 06:02:38 PM
Wait...

Was that meant to be the invasions, or the seasons of Lost?

Made me laugh.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on December 08, 2011, 07:24:39 PM
The signpost on Daimon Worship temple read like this-

Don't tell everyone! I'm already putting dead giveaways all around, there was much learning after the 4th invasion and making it easier for players to find out what's going on and how to defend themselves was one of them. But we don't want to take all the fun away, do we?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: fodder on December 09, 2011, 06:23:36 PM
meh.. killed daimon.. and it revived.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Telrunya on December 09, 2011, 06:30:56 PM
Eh, I still count it as a kill ;) Riombara: 1!
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on December 09, 2011, 06:37:45 PM
meh.. killed daimon.. and it revived.

Same happened last time. Them daimons like to show that they are invincible to make a good first impression. ;)

Eh, I still count it as a kill ;) Riombara: 1!

Yea, I'd count it too. Besides, they've been known to come back to life one way or another.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Zakilevo on December 09, 2011, 06:38:36 PM
Well at least humans are doing better than the  last time.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Anaris on December 09, 2011, 06:41:29 PM
Well at least humans are doing better than the  last time.

How can you tell?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on December 09, 2011, 06:43:50 PM
How can you tell?

I guess by victories, but considering that the invaders' units are like a 10th of what they were last time, I'm not all that impressed.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Telrunya on December 09, 2011, 06:48:21 PM
Yeah, victories over scouting forces aren't really that great. Though Daimons already attacking a City?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on December 09, 2011, 06:50:50 PM
Their big bad guy is roaming around Fheuv'n, but I'm guessing he figured that since we were declaring wars and all, he didn't need to attack us. XD

Fine with me, can't wait to go bash on Nothoi!
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on December 09, 2011, 09:13:47 PM
Same happened last time. Them daimons like to show that they are invincible to make a good first impression. ;)

Actually, that was just me forgetting about the newbie protection. He shouldn't have survived. So... even if he's not dead... consider him disgraced and going home to mommy to whine about evil humans or something.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on December 09, 2011, 09:16:24 PM
Actually, that was just me forgetting about the newbie protection. He shouldn't have survived. So... even if he's not dead... consider him disgraced and going home to mommy to whine about evil humans or something.

Sweet! I remember this happened to a daimon commander during the Fourth Invasion too, but no such luck that time.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on December 09, 2011, 09:58:07 PM
Sweet! I remember this happened to a daimon commander during the Fourth Invasion too, but no such luck that time.

Haha, yea.

Plus, I think that it wasn't even at the beginning of the fourth invasion, it was with new daimon leaders they had popped in.

Or was it the third invasion? Or both. Not quite sure anymore.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on December 09, 2011, 10:02:23 PM
Haha, yea.

Plus, I think that it wasn't even at the beginning of the fourth invasion, it was with new daimon leaders they had popped in.

Or was it the third invasion? Or both. Not quite sure anymore.

I distinctly remember this happening in the Fourth Invasion, as I was not around for the Third. I *think* it was Cimmerian, but it might also have been Night-something-or-other.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Iltaran on December 10, 2011, 03:35:03 AM
How can you tell?

Our internal organs are still largely intact!
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lefanis on December 10, 2011, 01:05:41 PM
Eh, I still count it as a kill ;) Riombara: 1!

It's Nigel! MR strikes first! We taught the daimon killing skills well. 8)

Don't tell everyone! I'm already putting dead giveaways all around, there was much learning after the 4th invasion and making it easier for players to find out what's going on and how to defend themselves was one of them. But we don't want to take all the fun away, do we?

Oops. :-[   :-X
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on December 10, 2011, 09:48:11 PM
I can't help but chuckle at realms that lose battles against these daimons. Which is a strange feeling...
Normally /winning/ battles against daimons is the oddity.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Telrunya on December 10, 2011, 09:48:59 PM
No worries. That particular problem will be solved soon enough ;)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on December 11, 2011, 12:22:28 AM
I can't help but chuckle at realms that lose battles against these daimons. Which is a strange feeling...
Normally /winning/ battles against daimons is the oddity.

Seriously? You're going to laugh at *Fronen* of all realms? The realm that's been suffering from a massive four on one beat-down for the past several months? We'll win the sunrise battle in any case. We killed most of them at sunset.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on December 11, 2011, 12:33:55 AM
Seriously? You're going to laugh at *Fronen* of all realms? The realm that's been suffering from a massive four on one beat-down for the past several months? We'll win the sunrise battle in any case. We killed most of them at sunset.

Not to mention the huge army that just knocked on Fronen in Vozzessdor.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on December 11, 2011, 12:55:20 AM
If Fronen can't field an army strong enough to fight the daimons now, they should've thought of that when the North came with a cease fire that they considered to be acceptable before the invasion started.

Besides, it's not just Fronen, moreso Enweil and Nothoi... but well Nothoi can't be expected to fight them in the field I suppose, with the army they field.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Zakilevo on December 11, 2011, 01:17:57 AM
Well Enweil only has 23 nobles with 3 priests and 2 inactive people who sit in the capital doing nothing. Unlike Thalmarkin with 34 nobles. Find a better realm to compare with.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on December 11, 2011, 01:29:18 AM
If Fronen can't field an army strong enough to fight the daimons now, they should've thought of that when the North came with a cease fire that they considered to be acceptable before the invasion started.

Besides, it's not just Fronen, moreso Enweil and Nothoi... but well Nothoi can't be expected to fight them in the field I suppose, with the army they field.

lol, seriously?

I saw the battle report. Whatever fought those daimons was not Fronen's whole forces. I can't see Fronen sending all of their troops for some beat-up rural down south while they have a war in the North, same for Enweil for a northern rural while they still lack peace in the South.

There was never anything acceptable about the North's "roll over and play dead or we'll push you over" offers.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on December 11, 2011, 05:45:40 PM
If Fronen can't field an army strong enough to fight the daimons now, they should've thought of that when the North came with a cease fire that they considered to be acceptable before the invasion started.

Besides, it's not just Fronen, moreso Enweil and Nothoi... but well Nothoi can't be expected to fight them in the field I suppose, with the army they field.

Yeah sure, we'll hand over two entire cities for a 'cease fire'. What a splendid idea; that way we'll be that much weaker when they decide the 'cease fire' is over. Convenient for everyone, right? And no one ever said that the offer would have been acceptable before the Invasion either. It was a counter offer I made to the North based on the fact that there was no earthly way that the Senate would have given up Wudenkin without a fight, but they refused point blank at that time; they didn't even bother to make a counter offer, they said 'either hand us three cities or we have nothing to discuss.' Therefore we'll never know if the Senate would actually have accepted it then, do we? They seem to think that they were making some big concession by demanding only two cities instead of three this time around, but they made the offer so gracelessly and worded it so poorly that there was again no earthly way the Senate was going to take it seriously.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on December 11, 2011, 10:29:14 PM
Peace has to come from both sides. When one side demands something and you say "no, we'll give you nothing, take it or leave it" then you're not negotiating, you're just inviting their armies to come and take what they want. Of course the alliance was too greedy, I'm not denying that, but just as they were greedy Fronen was irrealistic in their capability of keeping/feeding those cities.
In my eyes, you're lucky you're rid of Vozz, a city that had been starving for months. Wudenkin is far from it's max population, in fact the only city you seem to have been able to feed consistently is Vur Hagin. You could've tried getting a townsland or two in return, a mountain region, a promise of food, military aid, gold.. but you just said "no". Well, that's the moment Fronen lost her right to complain about the position she's in in my mind. The alliance was arrogant, but Fronen was just as arrogant in refusing to negotiate, in trying to use the daimons as saviors.

As for the current wars going on. I don't think Enweil kept any force South, negotiations are going on at the moment and Rio was fighting her own daimon at the time. I don't know if Fronen was under threat of human attack but maybe if they would've negotiated they wouldn't be anyway. Don't go blame your defeat against the weakest daimon armies in... ever on the continuation of human wars. That is as much on yourself as it is on anyone else.

Anyway, I never intended to get so serious on this. We all had a chance to fight daimons on the field and win for once and some took it while others didn't. I'm not comparing with anyone, this is just simple fact and something that both Fronen and Enweil should've been capable of. I've seen/fought in battles against both realms and you've both got the force to field an army capable of that. It really was just a matter of bringing 7-8k CS, enough banners and/or uniques and not mess your linesettings up.

Bu now it looks like that time is over and it seems that OG is screwed...
The real invasion has begun.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Sypher on December 12, 2011, 03:12:22 AM
Fronen did okay in that battle considering we were handicapped by other problems. Besides, we wounded or killed most of the Daimon's forces in that first battle. And wounded daimons don't heal as well as human troops w/healers. I guess the daimons don't use healers? A small mercy for us.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on December 12, 2011, 06:49:45 AM
Bu now it looks like that time is over and it seems that OG is screwed...
The real invasion has begun.

My heart weeps for them. Were they the last ones to respond to Overlord or something?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Zakilevo on December 12, 2011, 07:15:48 AM
Weren't we winning? I mean Nightfall of the whatevers were not commanding huge units like the last invasion.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: De-Legro on December 12, 2011, 07:18:49 AM
Weren't we winning? I mean Nightfall of the whatevers were not commanding huge units like the last invasion.

Yes, but such small units were never likely to last. You faced off the initial vanguard, now it seems that the bulk of the invasion forces have come to play.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: fodder on December 12, 2011, 07:29:38 AM
oddly.. one of the sons is in prison somewhere... wonder whose..
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Zakilevo on December 12, 2011, 07:47:34 AM
Two daimon TLs are dead. Are there more TLs other than the Nightfalls?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Heq on December 12, 2011, 09:52:52 AM
Well, I'm hoping Prudent shows up again so Nothoi can serve her, so we can continue to work on our extraplanar research.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Telrunya on December 12, 2011, 12:22:09 PM
Two daimon TLs are dead. Are there more TLs other than the Nightfalls?

Not yet.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on December 12, 2011, 06:51:18 PM
Not yet.

Overlord's around. Haven't seen him since he looted Tsamn (or Pequad?) and was all like "Serve me, puny inferior beings!".

Referendum's out for mortality. I think a good number of those who are going to vote weren't actually there last time, though. I thought it sounded pretty cool at first too. :/

Wish it would come later. It would help to create a big epic finale if BT is doomed and the human realms make their final stands. Dying at the beginning of the invasion just sucks though.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Marlboro on December 12, 2011, 07:28:02 PM
If Overlord wipes out BT, hasn't he indicated he might make a move on the other islands?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Telrunya on December 12, 2011, 07:31:13 PM
I liked mortality, the only very big issue is that you can potentially miss out on the Invasion if your character dies (No way to get back). Now that we have the Fourth Invasion as a learning experience, I voted in favour despite my major issue. Ignoring the disadvantages, it did add a lot to the Invasion.

If Overlord wipes out BT, hasn't he indicated he might make a move on the other islands?

He said something about finding the other places we insult with our presence :) It's a pity my character in Riombara knows more about what's going on in Old Grehk then my newly-arrived character in Old Grehk though :P
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on December 12, 2011, 08:23:48 PM
I liked mortality, the only very big issue is that you can potentially miss out on the Invasion if your character dies (No way to get back). Now that we have the Fourth Invasion as a learning experience, I voted in favour despite my major issue. Ignoring the disadvantages, it did add a lot to the Invasion.

He said something about finding the other places we insult with our presence :) It's a pity my character in Riombara knows more about what's going on in Old Grehk then my newly-arrived character in Old Grehk though :P

The daimons are melee from what I saw in the battle reports, though, so I'm thinking that if mortality kicks in, we might be seeing some Enweil-caliber waves of death. Unless the death rate is dramatically turned down from what it was last invasion.

If we die like people died to the monsters, you can say goodbye to BT pretty darn fast, though. It's already pretty depopulated, I doubt it can absorb such losses at this point.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Telrunya on December 12, 2011, 08:31:17 PM
There are various sorts of Daimons. And I assume Tom will do his best to balance the mortality rate, we now actually have some experience with the whole thing. Mortality rates were already adjusted during the Fourth Invasion.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on December 12, 2011, 08:46:59 PM
There are various sorts of Daimons. And I assume Tom will do his best to balance the mortality rate, we now actually have some experience with the whole thing. Mortality rates were already adjusted during the Fourth Invasion.

Even the lowered rates were pretty bad for the monsters, because they had more more chances to kill than everyone else.

As for the various sorts of daimons, perhaps. Third invasion presented a bunch of different types. Last one only had ranged SF types, I think. Thus far, I've not seen many battle reports but I've only seen infantry (or melee SF) types.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on December 12, 2011, 08:56:03 PM
Even the lowered rates were pretty bad for the monsters, because they had more more chances to kill than everyone else.

As for the various sorts of daimons, perhaps. Third invasion presented a bunch of different types. Last one only had ranged SF types, I think. Thus far, I've not seen many battle reports but I've only seen infantry (or melee SF) types.

The fire-flinging ranged SF types were present in the first wave of battles before they switched to using the melee troops. I have a secret theory that Tom was testing the different units in battle to see if they needed any adjustment. They are very formidable. 80 daimons can dish 1k plus hits at long range, which escalates up to well over 2k as the range closes, plus they're still tough as nails. I just hope we don't seem them in the same numbers we did during the Fourth Invasion, or bye-bye BT.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on December 12, 2011, 08:59:24 PM
The fire-flinging ranged SF types were present in the first wave of battles before they switched to using the melee troops. I have a secret theory that Tom was testing the different units in battle to see if they needed any adjustment. They are very formidable. 80 daimons can dish 1k plus hits at long range, which escalates up to well over 2k as the range closes, plus they're still tough as nails. I just hope we don't seem them in the same numbers we did during the Fourth Invasion, or bye-bye BT.

If we see them, Tom is merciful.

Who else remembers the screechers?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Vaylon Kenadell on December 12, 2011, 09:31:38 PM
If Overlord wipes out BT, hasn't he indicated he might make a move on the other islands?

Now that you've mentioned this, it makes me wonder if they would come to Dwilight. My personal theory is that if they did, the Daimons on Dwilight would fight them -- if sufficiently motivated.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on December 12, 2011, 09:33:23 PM
Now that you've mentioned this, it makes me wonder if they would come to Dwilight. My personal theory is that if they did, the Daimons on Dwilight would fight them -- if sufficiently motivated.

Some silly colonists wished for an invasion on their little isle. Maybe they should have been more careful for wat they wished for? :P
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Bedwyr on December 12, 2011, 09:56:54 PM
Now that you've mentioned this, it makes me wonder if they would come to Dwilight. My personal theory is that if they did, the Daimons on Dwilight would fight them -- if sufficiently motivated.

I will preface this by saying that this is me talking as a player, not as a dev, as I have not talked to Tom about it and will not for a variety of reasons.

That said...I think it's entirely possible that Dwilight or some other island will be Invaded if BT falls.  It's not just for !@#$s and giggles that I have my two most prominent characters talking about it.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Zakilevo on December 12, 2011, 10:09:00 PM
Oh god. That would be just ridiculous. It would seem like Tom trying to kill of continents one by one. At the end shutting down the whole BM!
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Solari on December 12, 2011, 10:09:23 PM
That said...I think it's entirely possible that Dwilight or some other island will be Invaded if BT falls.  It's not just for !@#$s and giggles that I have my two most prominent characters talking about it.

Keep hunting for those portal stones, suckers! *sharpens his daimon-cleaver*
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Bedwyr on December 12, 2011, 10:10:49 PM
Oh god. That would be just ridiculous. It would seem like Tom trying to kill of continents one by one. At the end shutting down the whole BM!

I wouldn't go that far.  But it could serve as an interesting mechanic to handle playerbase size.  Playerbase goes down, more areas get Invaded.  Playerbase goes up, we push the Invaders back and reclaim lands.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on December 12, 2011, 10:11:43 PM
Keep hunting for those portal stones, suckers! *sharpens his daimon-cleaver*

Yup, we need to open more portals! :D
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Zakilevo on December 12, 2011, 10:16:48 PM
I wouldn't go that far.  But it could serve as an interesting mechanic to handle playerbase size.  Playerbase goes down, more areas get Invaded.  Playerbase goes up, we push the Invaders back and reclaim lands.

Hmm... That sounds a bit too insane but it is no doubt a good way to control the number of continents. But we should focus more on increasing playerbase rather than thinking of a way to reduce the number of continents.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on December 12, 2011, 10:21:27 PM
Hmm... That sounds a bit too insane but it is no doubt a good way to control the number of continents. But we should focus more on increasing playerbase rather than thinking of a way to reduce the number of continents.

Personally, I think the game has just become too complicated and the learning curve for newbies too steep.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on December 12, 2011, 10:22:05 PM
I wouldn't go that far.  But it could serve as an interesting mechanic to handle playerbase size.  Playerbase goes down, more areas get Invaded.  Playerbase goes up, we push the Invaders back and reclaim lands.

I would be concerned about springing Invasions on other islands. It's been an advertised feature of BT forever, so if you go to BT and find you don't like them you've only got yourself to blame. However, dropping the Invasion bomb on another island, while a vastly entertaining concept to me (especially regarding AT), might not exactly be fair to the many players who play there and have a reasonable expectation of not having their game completely turned on end by the sudden appearance of daimonic hordes.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on December 12, 2011, 10:24:06 PM
I would be concerned about springing Invasions on other islands. It's been an advertised feature of BT forever, so if you go to BT and find you don't like them you've only got yourself to blame. However, dropping the Invasion bomb on another island, while a vastly entertaining concept to me (especially regarding AT), might not exactly be fair to the many players who play there and have a reasonable expectation of not having their game completely turned on end by the sudden appearance of daimonic hordes.

True.

Much like dropping mortality on people.

A vote could be held on each continent, though, to ask the players of that continent "would you be willing to accept invasions to occur on this continent?". The continent with the highest approval rate, as long as it's above 50% (or 66%), could be then chosen as the next candidate.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Zakilevo on December 12, 2011, 10:52:13 PM
Maybe we should try to make smaller steps to guide noobies? Like small quests?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on December 12, 2011, 10:53:59 PM
Maybe we should try to make smaller steps to guide noobies? Like small quests?

It's hard to "train" newbies in social games like this one.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Zakilevo on December 12, 2011, 10:57:48 PM
That is why mentors should give out small quests? Maybe there should be a checklist of things which mentors can check with their mouse cursor for each individual student.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on December 12, 2011, 10:58:58 PM
That is why mentors should give out small quests? Maybe there should be a checklist of things which mentors can check with their mouse cursor for each individual student.

Like what? "Go over there, do X, then come back" isn't really what BM's all about.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: vanKaya on December 12, 2011, 11:04:50 PM
Personally, I think the game has just become too complicated and the learning curve for newbies too steep.

Fun fact: a steep learning curve means something is easy to learn.

A little counter-intuitive and a common misconception.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on December 12, 2011, 11:09:13 PM
Fun fact: a steep learning curve means something is easy to learn.

A little counter-intuitive and a common misconception.

How so?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Marlboro on December 12, 2011, 11:26:36 PM
As a relatively new player there were a few moments where I was slapping myself in the forehead after figuring out how something works (Like Student being an actual character class rather than just an honorific sort of thing), but discovering new things has a sort of excitement to it still since there's not a real manual to it. I may be in the minority, but it makes me really look forward to stuff like an adventurer turning noble, or trying out any of the classes besides Warrior.

If they go anywhere else, I hope it's Atamara. It'd certainly shake up the status quo to have daimon pirates raiding Calis by sea or... however they'd launch their trans-continental crusade.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on December 12, 2011, 11:42:07 PM
If they go anywhere else, I hope it's Atamara. It'd certainly shake up the status quo to have daimon pirates raiding Calis by sea or... however they'd launch their trans-continental crusade.

Portals my friend. Beware the Portal stones. Or, alternately, go get em' if you really want to see an AT invasion. I think it takes 8?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on December 12, 2011, 11:45:58 PM
Portals my friend. Beware the Portal stones. Or, alternately, go get em' if you really want to see an AT invasion. I think it takes 8?

They don't actually work anywhere else than on BT, for now at least.

However, it'd be interesting if, on the continent chosen for an invasion, it does not trigger until some advy actually does collect the portal stones and opens a portal himself.

Would be quite amusing if humans brought the invaders to their own lands.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: vanKaya on December 13, 2011, 12:47:35 AM
How so?

The original meaning of "steep learning curve" and the meaning still maintained in most* academic formats is that a steep learning curve implies rapid progress in learning at the introductory stage.

The phrase has deviated from it's original meaning in colloquial conversation where it has come to refer to difficulty during the elementary stages.

*It's pretty much universally accepted that the original meaning was "easy to learn" but that hasn't stopped smart and well informed academics from arguing that the newer, conversational interpretation of the phrase is acceptable even within an academic setting. So really, you're not wrong, but you could be more right.

I don't mean to go off topic but being informed never hurt anyone and I found this interesting when I first heard it.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on December 13, 2011, 12:50:56 AM
Heh, I guess it makes sense. Kinda like "large scale" and "small scale": these terms are burrowed from geography, where a large scale actually means a very small area. Mind you, even we geographers are all confused by that now.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Anaris on December 13, 2011, 12:51:27 AM
The original meaning of "steep learning curve" and the meaning still maintained in most* academic formats is that a steep learning curve implies rapid progress in learning at the introductory stage.

The phrase has deviated from it's original meaning in colloquial conversation where it has come to refer to difficulty during the elementary stages.

*It's pretty much universally accepted that the original meaning was "easy to learn" but that hasn't stopped smart and well informed academics from arguing that the newer, conversational interpretation of the phrase is acceptable even within an academic setting. So really, you're not wrong, but you could be more right.

I don't mean to go off topic but being informed never hurt anyone and I found this interesting when I first heard it.

Got a cite on this?

Not 'cause I disbelieve you, but because I'm always fascinated by evolving languages :)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: vanKaya on December 13, 2011, 02:30:25 AM
I totally thought I'd get yelled at for being off topic and pretentiousness, but yeah.. I'm also fascinated by language.

I know Wikipedia isn't the most credible source, but the citations on the "learning curve" page looked pretty legit. One source that particularly stood out was:

7. Laparoscopic Colon Resection Early in the Learning Curve", Ann Surg. 2006 June; 243(6): 730–737, see the "Discussions" section, Dr. Smith's remark about the usage of the term "steep learning curve":

"First, semantics. A steep learning curve is one where you gain proficiency over a short number of trials. That means the curve is steep. I think semantically we are really talking about a prolonged or long learning curve. I know it is a subtle distinction, but I can't miss the opportunity to make that point."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learning_curve
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on December 13, 2011, 03:25:53 AM
They don't actually work anywhere else than on BT, for now at least.

However, it'd be interesting if, on the continent chosen for an invasion, it does not trigger until some advy actually does collect the portal stones and opens a portal himself.

Would be quite amusing if humans brought the invaders to their own lands.

Well it would be an amusing way to settle which island is the next one to get smoked, right? Why, whichever one is foolish enough to allow someone to make use of some portal stones. A little tinkering to make sure they start showing up more often (and that they actually do something sinister when activated), and your pot is on to boil...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on December 13, 2011, 04:49:45 AM
Well it would be an amusing way to settle which island is the next one to get smoked, right? Why, whichever one is foolish enough to allow someone to make use of some portal stones. A little tinkering to make sure they start showing up more often (and that they actually do something sinister when activated), and your pot is on to boil...

Well, yes and no. I wouldn't determine which continent gets targeted this way, personally, as one player should not get to decide over such matters for everyone. For example, I would have great pleasure to go and do that on the EC, but that wouldn't be fair to the people who actually invested themselves on that island for all this time.

I would have a global vote to select which continent, and take the continent with the highest approval rate as the next target. However, leaving the timing of the next invasion to adventurers sounds fine.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Draco Tanos on December 13, 2011, 05:48:55 AM
Why do I suddenly picture Advies being murdered in mass numbers on all continents?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on December 13, 2011, 06:09:26 AM
Why do I suddenly picture Advies being murdered in mass numbers on all continents?

Crank up the rogue spawns on the chosen island, so that if they try to prevent an invasion by killing all advies, they'll provoke one through rogue spawns themselves. :P
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: fodder on December 13, 2011, 08:02:43 AM
highest approval? not lowest? XD
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Silverhawk on December 13, 2011, 09:29:05 AM
 :o Beluaterra already dead?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grbSQ6O6kbs&feature=fvwrel

Starring:

Not so dead man - Beluaterra
Son of not so dead man - Several nobles
Caretaker - ..... (You fill in)


Now lets return to winning this fight :D
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on December 13, 2011, 01:54:34 PM
highest approval? not lowest? XD

It's only fair that those who get the pain are those who actually asked for it.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on December 13, 2011, 03:48:24 PM
I've voted no on the referendum... I was very excited about the whole mortality thing last time but that was before I knew that the continent would be doomed if we lost. This time I know that every noble counts and I'd rather not see them fall as flies before the daimons' legions. It 'll be hard enough already.  :)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Indirik on December 13, 2011, 03:50:35 PM
Wimp.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on December 13, 2011, 04:39:58 PM
I've voted no on the referendum... I was very excited about the whole mortality thing last time but that was before I knew that the continent would be doomed if we lost. This time I know that every noble counts and I'd rather not see them fall as flies before the daimons' legions. It 'll be hard enough already.  :)

Haha, completely opposite logic from me.

If we are to survive, then I don't want mortality so that I may continue to play with these characters I cherish and have taken quite some time to develop (even if they still remain very poorly developped compared to the other characters I lost to death).

If BT is gonna end anyways, and they'd be forced to emigrate to some other random inferior continent, then I'd rather just as well that they all die in a glorious wave of unstoppable destruction.

Mind you, in either case, I wouldn't want my chars to die early in the invasion. Missing out on the whole invasion because of some !@#$ luck due to a daimon ambush early on would suck.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lefanis on December 13, 2011, 04:47:01 PM
I've voted no on the referendum...

I voted yes... Makes the risk all the more greater, and makes the island feel "real". I lost a character to mortality last time, but at least it finished him of in style. Mortality is what made the invasion all the more interesting, even though the percentage chance could get tweaked a bit.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on December 13, 2011, 04:56:26 PM
Mortality didn't last all that long at all, so it couldn't have made it all that interesting unless you meant to say the rest of the invasion sucked.

Besides, you paused your other character after the invasion. You don't care for mortality 'cause you've apparently lost interest in inter-invasion BT anyways.

Which is something that kinda bothers me about this referendum. It gives an equal voice to everyone, regardless of how long they've been there or of how much they've invested themselves on the continent. A player with two characters there is doubly affected by the fate of BT than someone with just one, after all.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: fodder on December 13, 2011, 05:27:45 PM
It's only fair that those who get the pain are those who actually asked for it.
ah.. and i thought you meant the "worst" island gets it in the whatsits.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lefanis on December 13, 2011, 06:13:12 PM
Mortality didn't last all that long at all, so it couldn't have made it all that interesting unless you meant to say the rest of the invasion sucked.


Not at all, you are drawing the wrong conclusions from what I said. The fourth invasion was great, mortality only made it better.

Quote

Besides, you paused your other character after the invasion. You don't care for mortality 'cause you've apparently lost interest in inter-invasion BT anyways.


I have three characters on BT. One active advy, one active noble, with an additional paused noble.

Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Draco Tanos on December 13, 2011, 10:30:46 PM
Mortality is what has helped strangle the life from Beluaterra.  We lost far more nobles, and players, than we gained in the interim.

While we were all given the option of leaving first last time, even that doesn't feal right.  Abandoning things you've worked to build for years...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: ^ban^ on December 13, 2011, 11:04:49 PM
While we were all given the option of leaving first last time, even that doesn't feal right.  Abandoning things you've worked to build for years...

Build things? And not expecting it to be completely destroyed? On Beluaterra?

That was your first mistake.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on December 13, 2011, 11:17:00 PM
I don't think the possibility of losing it all was ever present before the fourth invasion, but I wasn't there before the third, so I can't really say for sure.

However, losing one's character without being a hero was never part of the deal. Agreeing to risk losing your realm and such things are one thing, but the risk of losing one's character is something completely different. Because, yea, realms would die. But everyone would always survive, move on to other realms, and then scheme recolonization. Mixing blood like that was a good thing to keep things alive, imo, and RP rich.

Due to all the deaths we had last time, it wouldn't have mattered if the lands weren't blighted, there wasn't enough nobles left for large waves of colonizations anyways.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: ^ban^ on December 13, 2011, 11:31:17 PM
However, losing one's character without being a hero was never part of the deal.

Yes it was. Mortality was announced a week before it was implemented and the consequences were explained very plainly. Admittedly it is a bit Vader-esque, but warning was given.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on December 13, 2011, 11:37:02 PM
Yes it was. Mortality was announced a week before it was implemented and the consequences were explained very plainly. Admittedly it is a bit Vader-esque, but warning was given.

No, that's not a deal, that's an ultimatum.

If I tell you "I'll go burn your house if you don't escape the country by the end of the week", and you decide to stay. Do I then get to say that burning your house was "part of the deal", because you chose to stay?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Indirik on December 14, 2011, 02:34:20 AM
When you're playing a game, on the invasion island, on a testing server, in a game that regularly has paradigm changing things happening with little or no warning... Yeah,  it kinda is "part of the deal" of playing on that island. If you don't like things that can change to that extent, then don't play on the testing islands. You've been playing long enough to know that.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on December 14, 2011, 03:04:29 AM
When you're playing a game, on the invasion island, on a testing server, in a game that regularly has paradigm changing things happening with little or no warning... Yeah,  it kinda is "part of the deal" of playing on that island. If you don't like things that can change to that extent, then don't play on the testing islands. You've been playing long enough to know that.

Precisely, I've been playing on it pretty long, and death was never a part of that before it was imposed in the last invasion. Indeed, Tom had always opposed the idea of mortality for everyone, and the only thing different about BT is that realms died more often (due to large NPC armies stomping on them every now and then), and that we got to experience the code changes before everyone. For the latter, it was always the same as the other testing islands. And testing islands were never special, they simply got the changes *first*, but that doesn't mean they worked differently than how the other realms would eventually work like. They didn't get special stuff just because they were testing islands. They were just prone to more bugs.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Zakilevo on December 14, 2011, 03:14:25 AM
... 1st Son just became an infiltrator? He stole some gold from a city... bastard.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: De-Legro on December 14, 2011, 03:15:40 AM
Precisely, I've been playing on it pretty long, and death was never a part of that before it was imposed in the last invasion. Indeed, Tom had always opposed the idea of mortality for everyone, and the only thing different about BT is that realms died more often (due to large NPC armies stomping on them every now and then), and that we got to experience the code changes before everyone. For the latter, it was always the same as the other testing islands. And testing islands were never special, they simply got the changes *first*, but that doesn't mean they worked differently than how the other realms would eventually work like. They didn't get special stuff just because they were testing islands. They were just prone to more bugs.

Before the first invasion, invasions had never happened before either :)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: ^ban^ on December 14, 2011, 04:22:47 AM
They didn't get special stuff just because they were testing islands. They were just prone to more bugs.

Actually, they have, and they currently do. FEI and Dwilight were both testing islands when weather patterns were implemented. Both still have weather, but no other islands do.(though FEI is no longer on testing...)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on December 14, 2011, 05:37:54 AM
Actually, they have, and they currently do. FEI and Dwilight were both testing islands when weather patterns were implemented. Both still have weather, but no other islands do.(though FEI is no longer on testing...)

I never understood why seasons weren't ported over to the other continents.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: De-Legro on December 14, 2011, 05:47:28 AM
I never understood why seasons weren't ported over to the other continents.

Probably because seasons were never part of the deal. I mean they went for years without them, it would be cruel to inflict it upon them.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on December 14, 2011, 07:17:49 AM
Probably because seasons were never part of the deal. I mean they went for years without them, it would be cruel to inflict it upon them.

How so? It averages to the same. I always figured it'd eventually port over.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on December 14, 2011, 07:24:27 AM
For the record, last time we had mortality, for the little time it lasted, we lost 28 nobles against the monsters alone. 1 of these was from Bara'Khur and 1-3 of them from Avalon, I think. Here are the recorded names of the deceased:


Most of them were never seen again. Many of them quit the game altogether. Viewing reports of deaths in far away lands might have been "exciting" for those it didn't concern, but what it did was concentrate all power and influence in the few who remained. It's not that we crush all the opposition now, it's that there just isn't anyone left with any ambition. Our realms are ghosts of what they used to be and could have been.

If mortality kicks in, then I want everyone to die. Living in depopulated realm is not fun.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: vonGenf on December 14, 2011, 09:15:29 AM
we lost 28 nobles against the monsters alone. 1 of these was from Bara'Khur and 1-3 of them from Avalon, I think. Here are the recorded names of the deceased:

  • /cut/


You kept a list... and deliberately forgot to include any Riombaran death? Wow.... I'm impressed. That's dedication. ;D
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: ^ban^ on December 14, 2011, 09:43:52 AM
Now, I'm pretty sure most of the BT deaths were through execution, and not battle. Of that lengthy list of yours... how many actually died in battle?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Draco Tanos on December 14, 2011, 11:30:54 AM
One of my characters died fighting the Undead.  As did at least one other Grehkian, but I'm positive there were more.  Unless they had more than one character, most didn't bother returning.  And even those that did...  Left to never come back.  Mortality hurt Beluaterra more than the invasion in its purest form did.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lefanis on December 14, 2011, 12:04:40 PM
You kept a list... and deliberately forgot to include any Riombaran death? Wow.... I'm impressed. That's dedication. ;D

Riombaran, Meshan... No one who wasn't part of the federation was included, apparently.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on December 14, 2011, 12:22:01 PM
Thalmarkin lost about 10 nobles to the undead I think, 2 kings, 2 generals.

Mortality does provide for much more dynamic politics and that's why I like it but BT simply is the wrong continent to have it. Invasion time is not a time for internal politics. Besides, the loss of an NPC like a daimon leaderreally doesn't weigh up against the loss of a noble. Not to say that there didn't go any thought into the individual daimon NPCs or that their death doesn't hurt the daimons, but they /are/ just temporary characters. Designed to wreak havoc for a while and then disappear again whereas that is not the case with PCs.

Mortality needs to permanently be on a continent with human conflict, where it would really matter to kill the king of an enemy realm.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on December 14, 2011, 01:58:08 PM
You kept a list... and deliberately forgot to include any Riombaran death? Wow.... I'm impressed. That's dedication. ;D

Well, yea, these things were recorded for propaganda purposes. I was running that propaganda machine pretty strong until Nicolas died. I never made a list of the deaths of others, and I'm not sure if others did, so I'm just stating what I have available: Enweili federation deaths.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on December 14, 2011, 02:12:52 PM
Now, I'm pretty sure most of the BT deaths were through execution, and not battle. Of that lengthy list of yours... how many actually died in battle?

All.

Might be one or two exceptions, though, that I am not aware of. Monster code made that they killed a lot more than they captured.

One of my characters died fighting the Undead.  As did at least one other Grehkian, but I'm positive there were more.  Unless they had more than one character, most didn't bother returning.  And even those that did...  Left to never come back.  Mortality hurt Beluaterra more than the invasion in its purest form did.

Yea, really, hard to see it as a "fun" feature when most people who suffer it never came back and a good number of them quit the game already.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Telrunya on December 14, 2011, 02:31:29 PM
Isn't it impossible to emigrate to Beluaterra during the Invasion?

The list you give probably also includes a lot of deaths before things were patched up, mortality rates were turned down afterwards. If mortality rates are adjusted, it could provide excitement. Do we need to see 2-5 Nobles die every battle? No, with the amount of battles, that will simply go very quick. But a Noble dying here and there because he was faced by gigantic Daimons or decided to do a suicide run could really add to the Invasion feel.

About people quitting the game, was that really a substantial amount? Who all quitted especially because Beluaterra had mortality? There are plenty of Islands without Mortality, and there was plenty of warning that Mortality was coming to Beluaterra. It wasn't really a big surprise.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Draco Tanos on December 14, 2011, 02:41:44 PM
In a game with two turns every day, that encourages you to log in "whenever you feel like, it's your right"...  Is a week's notice really "plenty" of time?

Mortality certainly shouldn't have been turned on until AFTER they "patched things up".  Yes, it's testing, but a lot of time was put into NON-HERO characters.  People felt screwed over.  I can't say I blame them.  Mortality was bad for Beluaterra and the continent has never been the same since.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Solari on December 14, 2011, 02:50:54 PM
I voted no, and I have no problems sharing the reasoning: with sufficient GM resolve to actually grind realms to dust, the loss of one's home and collective efforts should be enough of a threat.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Anaris on December 14, 2011, 02:52:08 PM
In a game with two turns every day, that encourages you to log in "whenever you feel like, it's your right"...  Is a week's notice really "plenty" of time?

Mortality certainly shouldn't have been turned on until AFTER they "patched things up".  Yes, it's testing, but a lot of time was put into NON-HERO characters.  People felt screwed over.  I can't say I blame them.  Mortality was bad for Beluaterra and the continent has never been the same since.

So we're supposed to be psychic now?

We didn't know things needed to be patched up until after we saw so many people dying.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Draco Tanos on December 14, 2011, 02:55:15 PM
When there's something like mortality, there is a dev server, no?  Besides, the invader units were overpowered.  That is something that should have been tested out before mortality was activated as well.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Silverhawk on December 14, 2011, 03:01:45 PM
When there's something like mortality, there is a dev server, no?  Besides, the invader units were overpowered.  That is something that should have been tested out before mortality was activated as well.

Isn't Beluaterra a testing continent :P
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Anaris on December 14, 2011, 03:05:56 PM
When there's something like mortality, there is a dev server, no?  Besides, the invader units were overpowered.  That is something that should have been tested out before mortality was activated as well.

Testing massive battles in realistic situations on the dev server is vastly easier said than done.

I mean, sure, we could gather together all the troops of 2 or 3 realms in a single region and dump thousands and thousands of Daimons in the region with them, and watch what happens.

But that will not tell us anything about how overpowered they are, because that depends extremely strongly on just how good the humans are at banding together and getting their forces in the same place at the same time.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on December 14, 2011, 03:45:52 PM
But that will not tell us anything about how overpowered they are, because that depends extremely strongly on just how good the humans are at banding together and getting their forces in the same place at the same time.

Huh? How so?

The daimon and monster invader units of the last invasion were *immensely* overpowered. It would not have taken much in the way of testing to determine this. I have always assumed that they were this way because they were meant to be overpowering. If you're trying to argue that they were *not* overpowered then, well, I'm sorry but I do not agree. The above scenario suggests that you were trying to balance them with the expectation that a certain (smaller) number of invaders should be able to go toe to toe with a certain (larger) number of humans. This was a poor approach to balancing the invaders of the Fourth Invasion however because of their number.

Not only were they overpowered, they were numberless, which in the end was the real problem. With the monsters you could sometimes beat an army of them. Same with the undead. Not so much with the daimons from what I understand). However it didn't really do any good; in fact it was usually pointless. The commanders would simply recruit thousands and thousands more of them overnight. I've heard it said that the invaders had limited resources, but you'll pardon me if I scoff at this notion. All evidence suggests that they were not even remotely constrained by these 'limits', so they weren't very well adjusted, were they? When the daimons could raise literally hundreds of thousands of CS (more than all the realms of BT put together) by themselves, let alone in conjunction with the other invaders, there might as well have been no limits at all.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Anaris on December 14, 2011, 03:56:11 PM
The daimon and monster invader units of the last invasion were *immensely* overpowered. It would not have taken much in the way of testing to determine this. I have always assumed that they were this way because they were meant to be overpowering.

Here's another important point:

The devs, as a body, were not directly involved in the preparations for the invasion.  Some of the devs were among the GMs, but not all were, and some (like me) didn't become GMs until much later in the invasion.  Also, not all the GMs were devs.

Not only did I, personally, not have the chance to test Tom's code for the monsters, undead, and Daimons before the invasion began, I certainly had no idea what his intentions were for them.

Quote
If you're trying to argue that they were *not* overpowered then, well, I'm sorry but I do not agree.

No, not at all.  I'm simply trying to explain that attempting to manage fine balance issues (as opposed to gross balance issues ;) ) with the dev server can be maddeningly difficult.

Quote
The above scenario suggests that you were trying to balance them with the expectation that a certain (smaller) number of invaders should be able to go toe to toe with a certain (larger) number of humans. This was a poor approach to balancing the invaders of the Fourth Invasion however because of their number.

Nope. I have no idea what tests Tom might have run with the invaders on the dev server, but he didn't tell me about them.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on December 14, 2011, 04:59:46 PM
Isn't it impossible to emigrate to Beluaterra during the Invasion?

The list you give probably also includes a lot of deaths before things were patched up, mortality rates were turned down afterwards. If mortality rates are adjusted, it could provide excitement. Do we need to see 2-5 Nobles die every battle? No, with the amount of battles, that will simply go very quick. But a Noble dying here and there because he was faced by gigantic Daimons or decided to do a suicide run could really add to the Invasion feel.

About people quitting the game, was that really a substantial amount? Who all quitted especially because Beluaterra had mortality? There are plenty of Islands without Mortality, and there was plenty of warning that Mortality was coming to Beluaterra. It wasn't really a big surprise.

The death rate before the tweak was insanely high in Enweil. After the tweak, it still remained pretty high.

A week's notice, besides, it completely worthless. It's an ultimatum: stay and risk losing everything, or emigrate and be sure to lose everything. In a game that focuses around interactions, deaths mean a pretty big deal because it cuts for good all ties between two chracters. And when it's a lightweight game like this, it can mean years to reestablish these conntections.

Since these deaths, I've found myself working with mostly the same people all the time... and against the same, too. It brought great staleness.

As for "how many left?", checking through the player list is way too long and grueling, but of the 27 families that lost a character to the monsters I know of, only 8 are still on BT. 70.35% of the families who lost a noble no longer play on BT. And I suspect that most of them are gone from the game completely.

Also, though this in not quantifiable, I know that at least a few players left the game without having lost any nobles on BT, because having all the characters they played with die like that killed the game for them.

Death is lots of "fun" when it happens to others, is what I'd say. It's "exciting" when in happens in far-away lands. It's just "atmosphere", after all.

If people wanted to die, then we'd have a lot more heroes running around. But we don't. What we have is a bunch of people who like *others* to die, hoping they can enhirit of the spoils without consideration to how little to enherit might be left in the end.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Indirik on December 14, 2011, 05:51:55 PM
of the 27 families that lost a character to the monsters I know of, only 8 are still on BT. 70.35% of the families who lost a noble no longer play on BT. And I suspect that most of them are gone from the game completely.
You are half correct.

First, two of the characters you have listed are actually the same character: "Adair Acies" and "Dux Ducis". The character's full name was "Adair Acies Dux Ducis". (http://battlemaster.org/UserDetails.php?ID=1567) So let's call it 26 characters dead.

Of the families you listed 8 of them do indeed still have active characters on BT. Which was part of the point of the invasion: To reduce the population on BT and move it over to other islands. Also, people do tend to move around, and the death of a character is a logical time to select a different island. Not everyone is dedicated to playing on a specific island.

However, "most of them are gone" is incorrect. 18 of them still have active characters. So ~70% of them still play.

Three more of the accounts still exist, but have paused the last of their characters in the past couple months. So I would actually call it 21 of the 26 families survived the invasion, and kept playing. Bringing us up to ~80%.

In reality, since we don't know *when* the rest of them quit, claiming that they quit because they had a non-hero character that died during the invasion just cannot be supported. They may have, but we don't know. It may not even have had anything to do with that character, their realm, or even BT.

But even if we assume that all 5 of them did quit specifically because they had a non-hero character die during the invasion, then that's 5 out of 26. Or less than 20%.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on December 14, 2011, 06:24:06 PM
You are half correct.

First, two of the characters you have listed are actually the same character: "Adair Acies" and "Dux Ducis". The character's full name was "Adair Acies Dux Ducis". (http://battlemaster.org/UserDetails.php?ID=1567) So let's call it 26 characters dead.

Of the families you listed 8 of them do indeed still have active characters on BT. Which was part of the point of the invasion: To reduce the population on BT and move it over to other islands. Also, people do tend to move around, and the death of a character is a logical time to select a different island. Not everyone is dedicated to playing on a specific island.

However, "most of them are gone" is incorrect. 18 of them still have active characters. So ~70% of them still play.

Three more of the accounts still exist, but have paused the last of their characters in the past couple months. So I would actually call it 21 of the 26 families survived the invasion, and kept playing. Bringing us up to ~80%.

In reality, since we don't know *when* the rest of them quit, claiming that they quit because they had a non-hero character that died during the invasion just cannot be supported. They may have, but we don't know. It may not even have had anything to do with that character, their realm, or even BT.

But even if we assume that all 5 of them did quit specifically because they had a non-hero character die during the invasion, then that's 5 out of 26. Or less than 20%.

27 dead. 26 families, if you want: one family in the list lost two characters. Damn that long name, though, I'll fix my list.

"Most are gone" from BT. I did not say most had quit the game, though I've had anectdotal evidence of people leaving because of they lost characters or (mostly) because everyone else around them died (because, mostly, I never heard of those who died again).

As for the rest of your numbers, I don't understand them. Please tell me where you got them from and what they represent.

Indeed, though, we can't statistically say how many people quit because of mortality. But there is more than just quitting completely, too, there's non-renewment of characters. I can imagine some players, once their BT char is lost, would not create a new one, and would just wait for their time to end with the other characters, thereby gradually playing less and less characters until they leave completely. I don't have access to all of their family pages (if you can link them easily, please do), but I seem to remember having noticed that with some of these families. After all, if BT dies during this invasion, I myself might keep playing Machiavel for a while, but if something was ever to happen there, I'd probably finish it up then.

It's also impossible to determine why these people did not return to BT. Perhaps they were just waiting for an opportunity to leave. Perhaps they had sworn to themselves "never again".

As for the goal of the invasion, why would you want to move population away from BT? It already had among the lowests (if not THE lowest, if you disregard unclaimed regions) noble density of all continents. If anything, we should have moved some AT and EC people to BT, and not the other way around.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Indirik on December 14, 2011, 06:50:41 PM
"Most are gone" from BT. I did not say most had quit the game,

"70.35% of the families who lost a noble no longer play on BT. And I suspect that most of them are gone from the game completely."

(My emphasis.)

...I don't know how else to interpret that.

Quote
though I've had anectdotal evidence of people leaving because of they lost characters or (mostly) because everyone else around them died (because, mostly, I never heard of those who died again).
Quite possible. It's also possible that many people who had characters in Mesh/Heen/DoA/Hetland/etc. also quit the game because their entire realm got destroyed. I don't ht ink that means that we need to ensure that all realms survive the invasion.

Quote
As for the rest of your numbers, I don't understand them. Please tell me where you got them from and what they represent.
You listed 27 characters. Two were the same one. So that's really 26 families. 18 of those families still play BattleMaster actively. i.e. still have active, unpaused characters.

Of the remaining 8 missing families, 3 of those accounts still exist, but all their characters paused within the past few months. Therefore, I consider these accounts to have "survived the invasion". i.e. the loss of their character to the invasion did not cause them to quit the game.

That leaves only 5 of the 26 accounts you listed as being gone from the game. So, at most, you can claim that 5 of the 26 accounts you listed quit due to losing characters in the invasion. The data does not support that conclusion for the remaining 21 families. The 3 paused-but-still-existing accounts may have just stopped playing due to lack of interest in the game due to a dead BT character, but there is no data to support that conclusion.

I'm not sure what else needs explaining. If something is still not clear, can you quote the specific number you don't understand, so I can try to explain it?

Quote
I can imagine ...
I can imagine a lot of things, too. Like their computer died and they couldn't remember their password. Or they all restarted under new family names, so as to get a clean break, or the player just plain died. We can both theorize anything we want. But since neither of us have any data at all to support our conclusions...

Quote
It's also impossible to determine why these people did not return to BT. Perhaps they were just waiting for an opportunity to leave. Perhaps they had sworn to themselves "never again".
Sure. You could also say the same thing about any number of players who refuse to play on AT. Or EC. Or the Colonies... etc.

Quote
As for the goal of the invasion, why would you want to move population away from BT?
The dev team is aware of the game trends. The shrinking player base meant that the remaining players simply cannot inhabit the entirety of the game lands available. This brings the idea to shrink the available lands to increase the character density of the remaining lands. Hence: The blight. Beluaterra is the only place this can really happen. It is the invasion island. None of the other islands have the background to be able to support an invasion. As much as any player may like or dislike any individual island, we have to stick with the expectations that are the basis for each individual island. BT is the invasion island. AT/EC is not. So BT gets invaded, and AT/EC do not.


Edit ... too many distractions leads to screwed up formatting...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Silverhawk on December 14, 2011, 07:03:16 PM
All those names are linked to Enweil in some way or another. Another explenation could be that it's the realm :P.

Nah, now serius, BT always had a higher number of people quiting then other continents to my experience. (My opinion, no facts available to me to back it up). The reason, I think, is that people get emitionaly attached not only to a char but more to a realm. Beluaterra is the place where most realms die.

Also, many of these people that quit could have already been on the edge of contineuing or quiting. The death of their char could have pushed them over but so could any other in game reason.

Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Meneldur on December 14, 2011, 09:09:30 PM
I do think Chenier has a point about the downsides of character mortality. Unless you have multiple characters on the continent or have spent years establishing your family as a integral part of your realm, losing a character and having to emigrate a new one essentially means having to start completely from scratch. While older Beluaterra players may not mind this, to those of us like myself who have just established a character here on what seems to be a pretty awesome and interesting continent the prospect is significantly less enchanting.

Sure losing a character in an epic battle to the death against daimonic hordes may be a fun way to experience your first Beluaterra invasion, but unless said character is a very longstanding and well known realm member they're death is likely to go relatively unnoticed so there is little incentive to go back and claw your way up the social ladder again knowing your past experience of the continent counts for naught in the long term.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on December 14, 2011, 09:21:11 PM
I do think Chenier has a point about the downsides of character mortality. Unless you have multiple characters on the continent or have spent years establishing your family as a integral part of your realm, losing a character and having to emigrate a new one essentially means having to start completely from scratch. While older Beluaterra players may not mind this, to those of us like myself who have just established a character here on what seems to be a pretty awesome and interesting continent the prospect is significantly less enchanting.

Sure losing a character in an epic battle to the death against daimonic hordes may be a fun way to experience your first Beluaterra invasion, but unless said character is a very longstanding and well known realm member they're death is likely to go relatively unnoticed so there is little incentive to go back and claw your way up the social ladder again knowing your past experience of the continent counts for naught in the long term.

And in any case if you *want* your character to have an epic death in battle, that's what the bloody hero class is for. It's not like players can't choose to be mortal if they want to be. In my opinion they should continue to be allowed to make the choice for themselves rather than have it forced on them.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: songqu88@gmail.com on December 14, 2011, 10:02:03 PM
But it's also a fact that players do not get the right to choose where they play. So if we are speaking only about the strict sense of the rules, then if mortality means a bunch of people are turned off, that's not a problem with the game but the players, as it has always been clear that you do not have the right to play on any continent of your choosing, or any realm of your choosing. Often this isn't an issue, but when it is, that, to my knowledge, is the minimum rule.

Since we are all humans, we can argue back and forth blah blah and all that good sparkly nonsense.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on December 14, 2011, 10:45:05 PM
How about we wait for the result of the poll and bicker afterwards?

I kind of miss people following every little hint in-game, or the music videos posted (I've posted more) and trying to divine meaning out of it. It has meaning, and I found it very entertaining to follow the clue-hunt. Much more fun than discussing mortality.

Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on December 14, 2011, 10:46:13 PM
Losing a character is a pretty big deal in a game where you might play the same character for years at a time. I just think there's a certain amount of wisdom in respecting the players' right to decide either a) when they are finished with them, or b) that they are willing to give up some control over the character's fate by choosing the hero class.

Sure BT is a testing island complete with Invasions, but, you know, have some respect for your players and the immense amount of time and effort that they put into the characters they play. I am glad that Tom is leaving it to a referendum. That should be a reasonably fair way to decide the issue, but if you ask me it should be an opt-in.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Zakilevo on December 14, 2011, 11:03:56 PM
Are you serious Tom. I don't understand German.... That is one hard ass clue lol. Well from the background picture of the music, it seems like it is something to do with undead? or Maybe the names of the daimon TLs have something to do with it?

P.S never mind. There is a translated version of the lyrics.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Telrunya on December 14, 2011, 11:06:19 PM
Werent those posted on Facebook? Someone copy it to here? :)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Marlboro on December 15, 2011, 01:13:31 AM
Wow, Overlord's really bringing the party. I took the day off so I could watch the dam break.

Alright, I had it off anyways, but still. Looks pretty ominous!
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on December 15, 2011, 01:46:44 AM
It could be a lot worse... In the Fourth Invasion the daimons had over 100,000 CS sitting in a city at one point when Heen and Mesh were being devoured.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Zakilevo on December 15, 2011, 01:58:45 AM
I think the last one was just... overdoing things. Like we had no chance of winning. If we gather all our men then we can win? Doubt it. I mean you have to think about the travel time, gold availability and equipment damage. The game isn't designed for a long travel battle.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: ^ban^ on December 15, 2011, 11:24:00 AM
I think the last one was just... overdoing things. Like we had no chance of winning. If we gather all our men then we can win? Doubt it.

There is a reason invasions are feared.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tan dSerrai on December 15, 2011, 11:41:57 AM
Well, I'd like to go back to cluehunting:

So far we in Riombara have not seen anything that would relate to 'a burning ruin', 'a demon that must be unbound'. We have adventurers hunting in Avengmil (where Nightfall of the South was killed) for anything out of the ordinary. We did try entering the Blight (is still impossible though there are now 'tiny daimons' reported there (which I think weren't reported before).

Judging from the videos (links can be found on the first page of this thread) there might be an amulet (in two halves?) uncovering a book (tortured guessing but lacking any hard evidence I am grasping at straws).

Note that as I as player have lived through each of the invasions except one (the second I think) but have been largely clueless during those where clues were of importance (not for lack of trying...). I'd like to point out that anyone inserting a clue into a game of this complexity needs to be aware that what he thinks is blindingly obvious will very likely be overlooked or massively misinterpreted. So either raising the ammount of datapoints or their clarity (compared to past invasions) would give those of us trying to find out about this invasion a chance - as during the past two invasions I /think/ noone came even close to finding out a significant portion of the lore involved.

I (bth as character and player) would so very much /love/ to find out more about the mechanics involved    :)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on December 15, 2011, 12:55:30 PM
I said I enjoyed it. I didn't say it contains any vital clues. :-)

Something learned from the last invasion was that the story can be complex, but the core message must be really simple. And it really is very simply this time. All you need to do is do a bit of talking, not only to the Daimons but also amongst each other.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: songqu88@gmail.com on December 15, 2011, 12:58:30 PM
Sounds like adventurer stuff. But probably only one or two adventurers will ever stumble upon a single lead at any one time (That's how things go in the world). And no one adventurer can be the sole "hero".

Hm, I'm right, right? In this game, the reason Invasions are going to work not as well as planned (or at least differently than the ideal way to resolve the plot) is because we have a bunch of egos who think they can be the big hero. This is due to a lot of popular media that shows a single heroic dude as the protagonist. Much less frequently do we see truly equal portrayals of groups of people from different lands and even different times each making a tiny contribution, so small that individually they are forgotten, but which make up a powerful sum. For an interesting example, take Eternal Darkness, minus the girl who is the "hero"... And then you have a history of different individuals who by chance are faced with extraordinary situations, and who make small steps towards the final defeat of the...evil things. Ok, so it's not perfect. Nothing is.

The point is that I believe we as BM players are incapable of really "sacrificing" for the "greater good". And why should we? Some other players, especially certain notorious families whose characters are almost always going to tend towards one direction, would just stick their thumbs on their noses and watch you all flail around while they think they're safe or...doing something better, or whatever the heck is going through their stupid waste of carbon called a brain.

My prediction: Pessimistic. We are far too invested in our "accomplishments" in a freaking game (Like, goddamn, some people take BM a wee bit too seriously). I predict that, much like the 4th Invasion, we will for the most part, fail horribly like little idiots. If not for all the breaks we were pretty much given in the 4th (Mr. Tom guy reduced the daimons' ability to increase their forces and even manually decreased a bunch of them, Mr. Tom gave us the Light and then the Archons) then we would probably have been left in a worse state.

What does that mean for the end of 5th? I think we'll all be left with either a !@#$hole of a continent, or the continent goes down, whichever seems more appropriate. Accompanying all this will be a crapload of morons complaining about bull!@#$ because during the time that they could in fact do even the slightest thing to alter their future, they chose to be dumbasses and do their own !@#$ (It might not always be their fault, but I'm more talking about those !@#$%^&s who figure out some stuff but don't share it. Ok, sure, maybe their characters are intent on destroying humanity for some weird reason, but I can still think their players are !@#$%^&s for that lol. And besides, normal players who figure out stuff aren't bound at all not to share, so it's completely their choice to harm the group. That puts them in douchbaggery village for me.)

Oh, right, and so there will be a bunch of complaining, blah blah, happy loads of pointless cowcrap, with the end result being nothing changes...unless the complaints get really widespread and vocal, in which case the weight of the Invasion gets reduced.

Ah, and finally: You are free to prove me wrong. I very much doubt it.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Silverhawk on December 15, 2011, 01:19:18 PM
Quote
I cast my hopes into the waters
Awaiting judgement from the sea
And someday the tide will rise
Up so high to swallow me


nice and hopefull :D.....

And I agree with Artemesia, working together....never going to happen. To much ego's among most BM players (but thats the fun part some will say :P). Just like politics, lots of talking never really getting stuff done proper. What BT needs is one big human dictator to get things done and prepared.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: songqu88@gmail.com on December 15, 2011, 01:59:03 PM
Meow Touhou: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0pp2ebXT9k (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0pp2ebXT9k)

 :o
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on December 15, 2011, 02:02:09 PM
Sounds like adventurer stuff. But probably only one or two adventurers will ever stumble upon a single lead at any one time (That's how things go in the world). And no one adventurer can be the sole "hero".

Hm, I'm right, right? In this game, the reason Invasions are going to work not as well as planned (or at least differently than the ideal way to resolve the plot) is because we have a bunch of egos who think they can be the big hero.

Actually, no you are not right.

There is no specific class required or at an advantage, and I've taken into account that in general those with the largest egos are the ones who become rulers, etc.


This is due to a lot of popular media that shows a single heroic dude as the protagonist. Much less frequently do we see truly equal portrayals of groups of people from different lands and even different times each making a tiny contribution, so small that individually they are forgotten, but which make up a powerful sum.

That's true, but very recent. WW2 was an example of the different kind, the general propaganda message was not "you can be a hero", but "do your share".


What does that mean for the end of 5th? I think we'll all be left with either a !@#$hole of a continent, or the continent goes down, whichever seems more appropriate. Accompanying all this will be a crapload of morons complaining about bull!@#$ because during the time that they could in fact do even the slightest thing to alter their future, they chose to be dumbasses and do their own !@#$

As in all group efforts, communication is key. Things started out surprisingly well, but the secret-keeping has already begun. And I will ruthlessly explore every little bit of it. :-)

While I was largely absent from the 4th invasion in person, all lessons learnt there will be applied this time around. If mankind wants to survive, it will have to overcome itself. We'll see how that goes.

My prediction: Pain. Lots of pain. Evil always wins.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: songqu88@gmail.com on December 15, 2011, 02:04:43 PM
I disagree strongly about the last part. While there can never be a victory against evil, as it perpetuates with each generation, there can be a constant war. There may not be a clear win as in "good triumphs over evil" absolutely, which is the whole point. Blah, into heavy territory. No. None of that. Listen to the music video I posted lol. Read da lyrics yo.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on December 15, 2011, 05:03:56 PM
How about we wait for the result of the poll and bicker afterwards?

I kind of miss people following every little hint in-game, or the music videos posted (I've posted more) and trying to divine meaning out of it. It has meaning, and I found it very entertaining to follow the clue-hunt. Much more fun than discussing mortality.

I'm under the impression that a lot of people will be voting without either have been on the continent back then, or without having been in a position to judge its impacts first-hand. Granted, not all of them read the forums anyways, but it's a rather serious decision that I wish people who do on a more informed basis than a "sure, it adds ambiance therefore it must definately be good!". From anicdotal evidence, I am enclined to believe that those who lived it are much more likely to be against mortality, while those who never had it happen in a significant matter close to them are more likely to be in favor.

I'd rather people make informed decisions, as I doubt we'll get another vote on this later on. And so I expose my opinions on it. Because really, there isn't any point left to talking about it *after* the referendum ends. It'll be a done deal by then, and talking about it won't serve any purpose anymore.

So yea, I'm talking about it now. On the bright side, I won't really bother the forum with mortality afterwards, regardless of whether it passes or not.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on December 15, 2011, 10:20:31 PM
That trickster of an Overlord!

So I guess that leaves Enweil or Riombara where they'll strike afaik... we'll see soon enough.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on December 15, 2011, 10:23:07 PM
That trickster of an Overlord!

So I guess that leaves Enweil or Riombara where they'll strike afaik... we'll see soon enough.

Eh? Good thing the Riombaran army is still at home...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on December 15, 2011, 10:30:01 PM
Apparently OG wasn't the last one to reply at all. One realm didn't reply and then just shut up about it, happy OG was taking the fall.
That realm is screwed now.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on December 15, 2011, 10:31:32 PM
Bahaha! Not Riombara I'm pretty sure. I know ours responded early. Don't know about the other southern realms though...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on December 15, 2011, 10:37:22 PM
Hm, are you sure? I never saw a copy of Jethro's response, more like he was reporting what was happening on the ruler channel.

If he did reply, then it's Enweil that's screwed since all others replied in public before OG.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on December 15, 2011, 10:48:34 PM
Don't know if he shared what he wrote IC, but I know the player IRL and he claimed he replied within 20 minutes or so to the original ultimatum when I asked him about it.

I wonder if the north will bother coming down to help either way... Especially the Nothoi/OG/Sint bloc.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on December 15, 2011, 11:03:51 PM
I suppose it's Enweil then...

I guess there'll be some hurt feelings in OG that Enweil was just going to let them take the fall.
But they'd be idiots not to send help South, even though it'll probably be too late now.

It's also a long distance to travel so it's doubtful that the north could send as much help as they sent to OG.

I was almost hoping that we could beat them in Ircymbar, now I'm much less optimistic. :P
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Draco Tanos on December 15, 2011, 11:19:20 PM
Not including Sint's forces, who would have come from another direction, the Thalmarkin, Melhed, and OG have 32k in Junohelp alone.  Would have been nice to see the combined allied forces fight in that battle...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on December 15, 2011, 11:25:28 PM
Hm, are you sure? I never saw a copy of Jethro's response, more like he was reporting what was happening on the ruler channel.

If he did reply, then it's Enweil that's screwed since all others replied in public before OG.

Enweil did reply, mind you after Old Grehk, which I found interesting. (3 days, 18 hours ago)

I don't recall seeing Rio's declaration either. But I haven't bothere to actually compile everyone's declarations yet, as I have my exams going on.

If someone has the time, that's totally something worth archiving: every realm's response to the ultimatum.

Also, Overlord is inceptionalicious. He said Old Grehk, but showed up in Sint, and will attack somewhere else? A trick within a trick within a trick!

Mind you, nobody even had the time to react to the first trick, so it kinda defeated its own purpose. :P
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Marlboro on December 15, 2011, 11:28:33 PM
Because simple is bad!
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Darksun on December 16, 2011, 01:09:43 AM
If you recall, Overlord did mention that not everyone replied publicly. Therefore, it may be that he is indeed following his own rules set forth in the ultimatum, but we just don't see the whole picture.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on December 16, 2011, 03:01:00 AM
If you recall, Overlord did mention that not everyone replied publicly. Therefore, it may be that he is indeed following his own rules set forth in the ultimatum, but we just don't see the whole picture.

I asked, as the first to reply, that others reply publicly such as I.

The only reply we did not have publicly was from Rio. They say that they replied privately 20 minutes after the invasion "as we bickered like children". I don't remember Overlord specifically asking for a public refusal. Mind you, some could have refused publicly and sent private "ignore what I just said" messages. Old Grehk's declaration was pretty timid, for example, but Overlord's speaches don't tend to make me believe they were the ones (though I guess it's possible).

It is possible, however, that Overlord overlooked one message, or is reacting to Enweil's being late (Overlord said the target had been picked 7 hours after the ultimatum was made). Overlord said:

Quote
You fools fall for the most primitive piece of misdirection, because you can't trust each other. It is true, not everyone replied in public, but I never said everyone had done so. Someone amongst your kind knew full well that he hadn't yet replied when I announced the winner of our little game.
And he kept quiet. I can not believe it! He left his own kind to be crushed. Did he think I missed him and didn't want to point it out? Or was he secretly happy?

So from what I have, I'd have to say Rio just lied. Because Enweil did not "keep quiet" about the ultimatum. Though I guess you could say they "kept quiet" about not having been targeted, despite replying late. Besides, even had anyone else been the one to declare late, I wouldn't have expected them to say "No, I was late, pick me instead", because that would be recognizing the daimons' legitimacy in attacking whoever saw the letter last, admiting that the late realm was "at fault" and that he should be the "rightful" target. Not to mention that Old Grehk is probably the most easy realm to defend of them all, being pretty damn intact and surrounded by strong allies and other human realms as opposed to Enweil which was badly damaged in the invasion and is just surrounded by Fheuv'n (tiny and poor) and Rio.

Guess it could be Enweil, though. Or Rio lied. Or someone sent a "ignore our public annoucement" message. We'll see soon enough.

I just hope we get to TO Zuhle before they strike, though... we *really* need to shorten the gap between ourselves and Fronen for these food transfers.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on December 16, 2011, 10:27:18 AM
I just hope we get to TO Zuhle before they strike, though... we *really* need to shorten the gap between ourselves and Fronen for these food transfers.

That kinda imploded with the morning turn, didn't it? :-)


If you read everything carefully, you will notice that Overlord was 100% truthful on the small "you decide" game. Indeed, when he announced it, the "winner" had been decided - because only one had not replied, so that one was by definition the last. Though you could argue that OG was the last to reply, if you interpret the "rules" that way. So much fun.

I just noticed someone realized that if you all had kept your mouths shut, there would have been no "last". I was actually expecting that. A few replies and then the rest get their heads together and realize that the only way to defeat Overlord in this game would be to have at least two realms not respond at all.

Yes, tricks within tricks...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Telrunya on December 16, 2011, 01:19:03 PM
And then the Overlord would have just picked one to march towards :P
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on December 16, 2011, 01:47:54 PM
That kinda imploded with the morning turn, didn't it? :-)

Sure did!


If you read everything carefully, you will notice that Overlord was 100% truthful on the small "you decide" game. Indeed, when he announced it, the "winner" had been decided - because only one had not replied, so that one was by definition the last. Though you could argue that OG was the last to reply, if you interpret the "rules" that way. So much fun.

I just noticed someone realized that if you all had kept your mouths shut, there would have been no "last". I was actually expecting that. A few replies and then the rest get their heads together and realize that the only way to defeat Overlord in this game would be to have at least two realms not respond at all.

Yes, tricks within tricks...

Didn't think of that. However, that would require a LOT more trust than what anyone has of each other.

Also, When I read back the messages, I'm always like "didn't he say MORE?" You did trick us in well in that regard, I was convinced I actually read that Old Grehk had been chosen.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Velax on December 16, 2011, 02:46:08 PM
Don't know if he shared what he wrote IC, but I know the player IRL and he claimed he replied within 20 minutes or so to the original ultimatum when I asked him about it.

I wonder if the north will bother coming down to help either way... Especially the Nothoi/OG/Sint bloc.

What was this ultimatum, exactly? I don't have a char on BT, (aside from a five-day-old advy) but am interested in what goes on.

Beluaterra is the only place this can really happen. It is the invasion island. None of the other islands have the background to be able to support an invasion. As much as any player may like or dislike any individual island, we have to stick with the expectations that are the basis for each individual island. BT is the invasion island. AT/EC is not. So BT gets invaded, and AT/EC do not.

So is that an official declaration that no other island will become the invasion island if BT goes down?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Indirik on December 16, 2011, 02:56:33 PM
So is that an official declaration that no other island will become the invasion island if BT goes down?
I can't make that declaration for future cases. I can only provide the reasoning that was used to invade/close down BT.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Darksun on December 16, 2011, 04:57:32 PM
I just noticed someone realized that if you all had kept your mouths shut, there would have been no "last". I was actually expecting that. A few replies and then the rest get their heads together and realize that the only way to defeat Overlord in this game would be to have at least two realms not respond at all.

Kind of like the prisoner's dilemma. Interesting, since the Overlord seems so bent on honour. Perhaps use that against him?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: songqu88@gmail.com on December 16, 2011, 05:09:03 PM
How does one outwit the Devil?

Attempting to find loopholes in his methods, attempting to trick him...These are all aspects that are part of his domain. You will never win that way, will you?

So how? There was this saying that although gods and fate rule mortal lives, in all things chaos has its rightful place.

Which means er...dudes, this is a game. So let's assume for one second (because one second is all the thought this topic deserves) that you lose *everything* you've ever worked for in BM. You get up from your computer, and you're still alive and nothing has changed in your life. And if it has, you lead a rather sad life.

Metagaming? I don't think so. More like realizing something about the fact that it's a game. Why so cereal amigos?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: vonGenf on December 16, 2011, 05:20:11 PM
Which means er...dudes, this is a game. So let's assume for one second (because one second is all the thought this topic deserves) that you lose *everything* you've ever worked for in BM. You get up from your computer, and you're still alive and nothing has changed in your life. And if it has, you lead a rather sad life.

Sure. We could stop playing the game.

But as long as we play the game... figuring out how to beat the invaders is the game on Beluaterra.

We may lose. But can we try to win? It's not much fun if we don't even try.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: songqu88@gmail.com on December 16, 2011, 05:25:23 PM
I'm not saying stop playing. lol people sure enjoy misinterpreting words.

I'm saying that sometimes it's good to take a step back before you dive back in. That's the case with all things in life really. If you keep pushing forward in the heat of things, you'll blind yourself to a whole lot.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Silverhawk on December 16, 2011, 05:28:07 PM
The only thing all the characters of BT could agree upon is that "roll over and die" is not an option for them. Sure, it will be sad for us as players if the continent is lost, but for our characters it will be the end of their lives. After all it's a roleplaying game.

Although I do agree that some players need to distance themself slightly more of their characters and should stop throwing threaths and demands around on the forum. Those never work, but a good discussion on the other hand has never harmed anyone.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Zakilevo on December 16, 2011, 10:02:46 PM
Overlord coming straight for Enweil. I hope he attacks Fengen so we can at least have an epic battle before Enweil dies.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Marlboro on December 17, 2011, 03:02:41 AM
"The more sophisticated the game, the more sophisticated the opponent. If the opponent is very good, he will place his victim inside an environment he can control. The bigger the environment, the easier the control. Toss the dog a bone, find their weakness, and give them just a little of what they think they want.

So the opponent simply distracts their victim by getting them consumed with their own consumption. The word "snake" springs to mind. Don't knock it. You only get smarter by playing a snake.

The bigger the trick and older the trick, the easier it is to pull, based on two principles: They think it can't be that old and they think it can't be that big, for so many people to have fallen for it. Eventually, when the opponent is challenged or questioned, it means the victim's investment and thus his intelligence is questioned. No-one can accept that, not even to themselves.

There is something about yourself that you don't know. Something that you will deny even exists, until it's too late to do anything about it. It's the only reason you get up in the morning. The only reason you suffer the !@#$ty puss, the blood, the sweat and the tears. This is because you want people to know how good, attractive, generous, funny, wild and clever you really are. Fear or revere me, but please, think I'm special. We share an addiction. We're approval junkies. We're all in it for the slap on the back and the gold watch. The hip-hip-hoo-!@#$in' rah. Look at the clever boy with the badge, polishing his trophy. Shine on you crazy diamond, because we're just monkeys wrapped in suits, begging for the approval of others."

-Jake Green, Revolver
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: De-Legro on December 17, 2011, 03:50:18 AM
Sure did!


Didn't think of that. However, that would require a LOT more trust than what anyone has of each other.

Also, When I read back the messages, I'm always like "didn't he say MORE?" You did trick us in well in that regard, I was convinced I actually read that Old Grehk had been chosen.

It would have required but two realms to co-operate, obviously the distrust and betrayal theme of the last invasion has left its mark upon the continent.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Telrunya on December 17, 2011, 06:30:51 AM
So seems Mortality was favoured by a slight majority of the people that voted, but not enough to make it pass. 64 did not vote though, that surprised me a bit.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: songqu88@gmail.com on December 17, 2011, 10:43:43 AM
For some reason my adventurer got the option to vote, but could not because he was an adventurer. That was weird.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Vaylon Kenadell on December 17, 2011, 02:38:29 PM
How does one outwit the Devil?

Attempting to find loopholes in his methods, attempting to trick him...These are all aspects that are part of his domain. You will never win that way, will you?

Actually, literature is replete with tales of men tricking the devil, particularly through the use of quibbles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quibble_%28plot_device%29).
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: songqu88@gmail.com on December 17, 2011, 03:34:15 PM
Actually, literature is replete with tales of men tricking the devil, particularly through the use of quibbles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quibble_%28plot_device%29).

Yeah, unfortunately the devil also has access to Wikipedia...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lefanis on December 18, 2011, 03:40:37 PM
Funky. My advies inventory has the Book of Daimon Banishing, but I don't remember how it got there... And I know I would have noticed if I found it in a search.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: songqu88@gmail.com on December 19, 2011, 01:05:48 AM
I figured it all out.

This is just like Diablo. In Diablo, you have different categories of enemies you face: Demons, Undead, and Creatures. Demons and Undead are fairly self-explanatory. The other creatures are things like angry goatmen, giant mosquitoes, yetis, water serpents, etc.

Therefore, the Daimons in BM are the Diablo version of demons, that encompass a variety, just like in Diablo, to separate the foot soldiers from the bosses like Mephisto and Baal. The Undead in BM are just like the Undead in Diablo. Actually it's lols cuz they got played pretty much like the Lich King's dudes in WoW in 4th Inv. Ok, so it's not Diablo. It's still Blizzard.

And the Monsters were everything else, so you can't go wrong there.

This means I just figured out everything, lol.

You just need to party up, get a good tank, have a healer, and do some nasty DPS to the daimons. Then get Overlord's soulstone and reassemble the Hellforge Hammer. After that, you shatter his soulstone on the Hellforge or something. Problem solved.

Although a difficulty arises because we can't really safely beat the 5th Invasion unless one of us knows spoilers for Diablo 3. lol. But that comes out in March. So let's try to stall the Invasion until then. lololololololololololol
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Zakilevo on December 19, 2011, 01:24:32 AM
Rofl. Tom isn't very happy with people being lazy with updating wiki for the fifth invasion it seems. I mean there isn't much to write about except pure facts like CS and TLs..
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: songqu88@gmail.com on December 19, 2011, 01:25:40 AM
Might be result of cynicism following low payout in 4th Inv.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Heq on December 19, 2011, 03:59:39 AM
I tried to add a timeline summation, but I am rubbish at wiki markup (I know, I work with R for a damn living, the humour is not lost on me).  I think the system of having the various timelines from the differing perspectives works, but feel free to change it.

I just felt I should put out the secrets Solips is keeping, as he's less likely to share with people who don't worship a rotting corpse.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: fodder on December 19, 2011, 11:16:36 AM
.. how come netherworld is both hatred and war against all human realms? i mean in the old diplo table, 1 axis shows hatred, the other shows war.. (mind you.. similarly, ivf vs sint)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Telrunya on December 19, 2011, 11:34:39 AM
While normally Diplomacy is a two-way thing (ie. Both are at War, or both are at Peace etc.), Hatred is not. Realm A can have Hatred for Realm B, while the Realm B is just at War. Hatred does not have to be mutual. All the Human Realms are at War with the Daimons, while the Daimons are at Hatred with all the Human Realms.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lefanis on December 19, 2011, 01:10:12 PM
There is no hope and no solution
This is the beginning of the dark age
No god can help us now
It's our destiny to suffer in pain
Mankind is going to die


Really?  :'(

All of the songs talked about how there is no hope..

There's no way to see
The rain filled for ¤
A hand leads you advise ¼
Not of This World
They are now with you
Get ready
You MUA? T they tà ¶ th
It is so far


This was the translation of the German one without posted lyrics. Is that a hint at the light maybe?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Marlboro on December 19, 2011, 05:56:56 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bm_VB2niqM
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lefanis on December 22, 2011, 03:00:29 AM
Without giving away too many spoilers.. Do have advies collect three books of Daimon banishing. It's not too hard, and very much worth your while. If 5-6 advies cooperate, you can do it in a week.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on December 23, 2011, 06:10:50 PM
Grm, we can't even trust eachother and now we've got to trust that daimon worshipper...

Tough call. :P
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Zakilevo on December 23, 2011, 07:34:53 PM
Another Song posted. Lyrics

(dry your eyes)
(dry your eyes)
(dry your eyes)
(dry your eyes)

Dry your eyes and quietly bear this pain with pride
For heaven shall remember the silent and the brave
And promise me they will never see, the fear within our eyes
(my eyes are closed)
We will give strength to those who still remain

So bury fear, for fate draws near
And hide the signs of pain
With noble acts, the bravest souls
Endure the heart's remains
Discard regret, that in this debt
A better world is made
That children of a newer day might remember
And avoid our fate

And in the fury of this darkest hour
We will be your light
You've asked me for my sacrifice
And I am Winterborn
Without denying, a faith is come
That I have never known
I hear the angels call my name
And I am Winterborn

Hold your head up high-for there is no greater love
Think of the faces of the people you defend
(you defend)
And promise me, they will never see the tears within our eyes
(my eyes are closed)
Although we are men, with mortal sins, angels never cry

So bury fear, for fate draws near
And hide the signs of pain
With noble acts, the bravest souls
Endure the heart's remains
Discard regret, that in this debt
A better world is made
That children of a newer day might remember
And avoid our fate

(prepare for battle)

And in the fury of this darkest hour
We will be your light
You've asked me for my sacrifice
And I am Winterborn
Without denying, a faith in God
That I have never known
I hear the angels call my name
And I am Winterborn

And in the fury of this darkest hour
I will be your light
A lifetime for this destiny
For I am Winterborn
And in this moment..I will not run
It is my place to stand
We few shall carry hope
Within our bloodied hands
(bloodied hands)

And in our dying
We're more alive, than we have ever been
I've lived for these few seconds
For I am Winter-born

And in the fury of this darkest hour
We will be the light
You've asked me for my sacrifice
And I am Winter born
Without denying, a faith in man
That I have never known
I hear the angels call my name
And I am Winterborn

Within this moment
I am for you, though better men have failed
I will give my life for love
For I am Winter-born

And in my dying
I'm more alive than I have ever been
I will make this sacrifice
For I am winterborn
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Zakilevo on December 23, 2011, 07:35:20 PM
What could this song mean?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on December 23, 2011, 08:56:08 PM
Clearly it's nothing more than an ode to the great Winterborn warriors of Thalmarkin!
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lefanis on December 24, 2011, 07:07:11 AM
Grm, we can't even trust eachother and now we've got to trust that daimon worshipper...

Tough call. :P

Daimon worshiper?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on December 24, 2011, 10:39:10 AM
Daimon worshiper?

The first son sent a letter to all the rulers that Overlord has started some sort of hidden ritual in Zuhle and we need 8 portal stones activated in the region to end it. If we don't, the south will be cut off from the North, supposedly.

It all sounds a bit tricky to me. :P
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lefanis on December 24, 2011, 12:35:24 PM
Lol.. Portal stones usually open portals, likely they want to summon more daimons given their recent losses.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: songqu88@gmail.com on December 24, 2011, 12:56:42 PM
http://www.myspace.com/battlemaster
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Anaris on December 24, 2011, 02:59:31 PM
Lol.. Portal stones usually open portals, likely they want to summon more daimons given their recent losses.

Actually...to my knowledge, that's never happened.

Portal stones are used to close portals, not open them.

I'm pretty sure the idea that they could open portals started on other continents when they started showing up there, and eventually migrated back to BT. But there is nothing that any dev or GM has done (to my knowledge) to encourage this belief. It's purely a player invention.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: songqu88@gmail.com on December 25, 2011, 04:17:55 AM
Rumors! Yay! I wonder why portal stones have achieved "LEGENDARY" status in BM meme lore. It's probably the most rumor-filled item in the game. No other game feature/mechanic/thing seems to have anywhere close to the same amount of speculation/misconceptions/stuff.

Besides, humans opening portals? Er...well, I suppose...if the Magic level in the region's high enough? ...But no human can see that value...Normally...Probably.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Adriddae on December 25, 2011, 09:22:48 AM
Actually...to my knowledge, that's never happened.

Portal stones are used to close portals, not open them.

I'm pretty sure the idea that they could open portals started on other continents when they started showing up there, and eventually migrated back to BT. But there is nothing that any dev or GM has done (to my knowledge) to encourage this belief. It's purely a player invention.

Back when Vlaanderen was around and Arcane was the ruler, we opened a portal in Zisswii. Didn't really do much though. I guess it gave the daimons in the realm a few more soldiers, but that was about it. However, it still stands that we did open one, or at least gathered all eight stones to open one. Not sure how much game mechanics wise really happened, but Arcane at least roleplayed a portal being opened.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: songqu88@gmail.com on December 27, 2011, 12:48:37 AM
Gilgamesh is the demon that is sealed in the south, that the three factions back in 4th were trying to either awaken or use or...whatever to their own ends. In the north lies the frozen souls of the cursed men whose lives were lost in the ancient war against the daimons.

Ah, but I forgot. 4th Inv lore makes no difference to the continuity of 5th Inv.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on December 27, 2011, 01:11:54 AM
Gilgamesh is the demon that is sealed in the south, that the three factions back in 4th were trying to either awaken or use or...whatever to their own ends. In the north lies the frozen souls of the cursed men whose lives were lost in the ancient war against the daimons.

Ah, but I forgot. 4th Inv lore makes no difference to the continuity of 5th Inv.

Not true. It is considered. However, some of it may be lies, misinformation or fabrication. Just like there is already falsehoods about the 5th flying around that I have no idea where it came from, but it is accepted as fact even though it isn't.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Zakilevo on December 29, 2011, 08:11:48 PM
Next Song

Hands of doom are reaching out to crush all infidels who stray
Time to know the pain, no time to run within
And these hands you see before you will end the light of day
Your ashes will be cast into the wind
Your blood's upon the soil, your body fed to wolves
Not one of you will be left alive
Hear the sound pounding and the army of the night
By the hammer of Thor you now shall die

Tonight we strike, there is thunder in the sky
Together we'll fight, some of us will die
But we'll always remember that we made a stand
And many will die by my hand

We are high atop the mountain, with hammers in the wind
Lusting for blood and death again
In a flash of lightning strike now the house of death invites you
Body and soul to come within
I see the fear you have inside, you can run but never hide
I will hunt you down and tear you limb from limb
Nothing shall remain, not your memory, your name
It will be as though you never ever lived
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on December 29, 2011, 08:31:35 PM
Also, Zuhle has been blighted.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Zakilevo on December 29, 2011, 09:55:01 PM
I think Enweil got ninjaed by daimons over the christmas holidays. People were not very active and fighting those flying daimons just finished us off lol.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on December 29, 2011, 11:37:56 PM
I think Enweil got ninjaed by daimons over the christmas holidays. People were not very active and fighting those flying daimons just finished us off lol.

a) It's far from over. I've moved fairly slowly for the past days, and while there are now 3 TOs running, they are all supported by one unit, so they will take quite a few days to complete.

b) My attitude towards the holidays is this: Yes, many people are away, with their families, etc. But just as many people are lonely and happy for everything that doesn't stop and continues to provide them with something to do.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Zakilevo on December 29, 2011, 11:41:39 PM
lonely.... lol
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on December 29, 2011, 11:46:36 PM
I hear they ignore walls... Oh well, a city's best defense are not the walls but the men behind them. ;)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Zakilevo on December 30, 2011, 12:07:55 AM
I imagined flying daimons but never expected to face them ROFL.

Group of Daimons (2) fly towards the defenders

After reading that line I was like wait what?

Then this happened...

Group of Daimons (2) charge ahead, into the defenders' ranks.

Christ. They fly and charge at the same time. Flying cavalries....
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on December 30, 2011, 12:15:50 AM
We should probably start building giant nets.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Zakilevo on December 30, 2011, 12:28:14 AM
Or start training some giant spiders. God new DLC for magicka and the first boss... Parker the Spider. LOL
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on December 30, 2011, 12:44:37 AM
Group of Daimons (2) charge ahead, into the defenders' ranks.

Christ. They fly and charge at the same time. Flying cavalries....

Be happy that they don't do strafings and fly-by-shootings or I'll code those. ;-)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Zakilevo on December 30, 2011, 12:48:10 AM
Tom. You evil little man!. lol shooting flyers crossed my mind but hearing that from you just makes it even worse!
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on December 30, 2011, 02:21:32 AM
Huh. Looks like Old Grehk is just determined to screw Fronen... Now they're running a TO in Wudenkin. Brilliant.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Sypher on December 30, 2011, 02:41:34 AM
Flying Cavalry type Daimons were in the 3rd invasion as I recall.

Walls are helpful against them based on the battle report for Dyomoque that I saw. I'd rather fight Cavalry type Daimons than the ranged ones.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Zakilevo on December 30, 2011, 03:08:20 AM
Not really. They just ignored the wall completely. They just flew over the fortification and hit the first row of Enweil militia by the third turn. (They had 'Back' 'Line' setting.) Once they hit, they pretty much decimated all the militias.

Group of Daimons (2) score 3205 hits on Elf Archers (5).
Group of Daimons (2) score 1734 hits on Shadow Archers (24).
Group of Daimons (2) score 3697 hits on Blades of Darkness's Bane (4).
Group of Daimons (2) score 725 hits on fleur de lis (12).
Group of Daimons (2) score 741 hits on fleur de lis (11).
Group of Daimons (2) score 763 hits on fleur de lis (6).
Group of Daimons (2) score 911 hits on Kidney Punchers (13).
Group of Daimons (2) score 368 hits on Nikolai's Elite (22).
Group of Daimons (2) score 3425 hits on militia (17).
Group of Daimons (2) score 1093 hits on milita2 (14).
Group of Daimons (2) score 892 hits on milita3 (15).
Group of Daimons (2) score 968 hits on militia4 (18).
Group of Daimons (2) score 571 hits on militia6 (20).

Within two turns, they cleared out everyone except two units of 10.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Zakilevo on December 30, 2011, 03:09:19 AM
Huh. Looks like Old Grehk is just determined to screw Fronen... Now they're running a TO in Wudenkin. Brilliant.

Sint doesn't even have a general. Sigh. If we lost this invasion, we all know who to blame.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Sypher on December 30, 2011, 03:34:44 AM
Not really. They just ignored the wall completely. They just flew over the fortification and hit the first row of Enweil militia by the third turn. (They had 'Back' 'Line' setting.) Once they hit, they pretty much decimated all the militias.

...
Within two turns, they cleared out everyone except two units of 10.
.

That sucks. Why would militia be in the back row? I thought militia deployed in the middle row always.

Anyways, for Dyomoque, first turn the Daimons charged forward and ended just in front of the walls. Militia moved forward to the walls. Then second turn the Daimons charged the wall but the lvl 3 walls reduced damage by about 30% and the militia were able to throw them back from the walls. It also helped that we were fighting a smaller Daimon army, 5k cs against 6.8k defenders.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Zakilevo on December 30, 2011, 03:39:01 AM
I was talking about the flying daimons. In the first turn they were at the back of the archer daimons. In the second turn, they were in the same row, and in the third turn, they were inside the walls - in the same row as our militia. And from that point, it was all downhill.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on December 30, 2011, 06:02:36 AM
Flying daimons attacked Dyomoque, but there were only a little over 200 of them. They charged repeatedly, but they were much weaker than whatever Overlord is wandering around with; the militia was able to handle them relatively easily. I think there might be a couple varieties of the little beasties.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Zakilevo on December 30, 2011, 06:12:05 AM
There are different types. Just like we have units with better equipment (weapon/armour)

Overlord just disappeared from Fengen. A late christmas gift from Tom?!

Ones in Ketampkin are very strong cavalries while those units led by Nightfall of the East are generally weak archers.

Once you defeat the powerful versions of each type, they seem to recruit weaker. CS wise they are similar.

But when Nightfall of the East attacked Enweil with 8k for the first time, he was leading really good archers. Not the second time however. The second time, he got smashed and he had a weaker version of the previous archers.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on December 30, 2011, 02:01:54 PM
Overlord just disappeared from Fengen. A late christmas gift from Tom?!

Not at all. Roleplay-wise, he didn't actually attack the city. He basically walked through it with his army. Imagine the Daimon army coming up to the gates, crashing through them, killing everyone in their way, walking through the city slaughtering whatever stands in their way, and then reaching the other gate, smashing it down, and leaving again. As if they were on their way somewhere and the city was simply in the way.

Overlord even sent a message "out of my way, cretins". Apparently, the city walls didn't listen.


But then, since no nobles were present at the battle, all the misinformation and guessing going on right now is pretty much good roleplaying. :-)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Telrunya on December 30, 2011, 02:15:48 PM
Quote
Overlord even sent a message "out of my way, cretins". Apparently, the city walls didn't listen.

All that effort, even asking nicely, and still they don't listen :P
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Zakilevo on December 30, 2011, 08:12:38 PM
Sadly militia units lose their legs when they are assigned.

They probably wanted to move out of the way but what can they do when they can't move.

Overlord could have flown past them but no must go through the gates like a polite person. Like following the human rules it seems. My character will still be puzzled by why he destroyed the city and just left lol.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lefanis on January 01, 2012, 06:51:52 AM
... What, have Fronen and Old Grehk decided to destroy the unity that the humans had finally managed to almost achieve?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on January 01, 2012, 07:18:48 AM
Pfft, don't blame Fronen. OG is trying to pull a fast one because they're greedy bastards.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Zakilevo on January 01, 2012, 07:36:23 AM
Some of the northern realms are finally marching toward the south. I think Sint and Thalmarkin are on their way.

OG is trying to take Wudenkin even at this moment. I am very happy with Riombara at the moment. They are of great help. After Overlord basically murdered everyone in Fengen, Enweil can barely gather 6k. Damn daimons. This invasion is more fun than the last one at least.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Telrunya on January 01, 2012, 01:03:53 PM
Fronen obviously wasn't able to manage Wudenkin, did you see what state it was in and then revolted under their rule? Luckily, her resources can still be used against the Daimons thanks to Old Grehk's capabilities. It is Fronen that has to throw a fit and sees issues like claims on Cities they can't hold any way as more important then ensuring survival against the Daimons. The times ask for such measures, we need the City in good hands and producing gold and men for us!

That said, that's just the opinion of my character in Old Grehk. My character in Riombara thinks exactly opposite to this and is very annoyed at Old Grehk's actions :)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Draco Tanos on January 01, 2012, 02:10:21 PM
But our goal is to make an impenetrable land-bridge down south to Rio! >.>

Rio can work its way up North!
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on January 01, 2012, 02:35:22 PM
But our goal is to make an impenetrable land-bridge down south to Rio! >.>

Rio can work its way up North!

Or... you know: fight daimons like everyone else?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Draco Tanos on January 01, 2012, 09:25:14 PM
I was jesting, you realize?  Though such a "land bridge" would be interesting...  Wonder if that could work without mass revolts due to distance...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on January 01, 2012, 09:45:56 PM
I was jesting, you realize?  Though such a "land bridge" would be interesting...  Wonder if that could work without mass revolts due to distance...

Yes I realize. I wasn't though. OG is diligently planting the seeds of hatred in every realm on the continent right now. Oh well... my guess is you're betting on the sinking of BT and just want to accumulate as much family wealth as possible before it's over.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Draco Tanos on January 01, 2012, 09:49:38 PM
Family Wealth isn't important to myself or the leading players of OG that I personally know.  Hell, most of my characters are priests.  We don't exactly get huge influxes of cash like warriors tend to.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Zakilevo on January 01, 2012, 10:19:18 PM
I've been pouring my family gold into Enweil. Hack better to do whatever you can do to save BT while you can. So later I can say I tried my best but still wasn't enough.  ;)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Heq on January 02, 2012, 10:25:36 AM
The seeds of hatred need to be planted?  I was pretty sure there were already full orchards of hatred before and nobles are vain and petty creatures.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: De-Legro on January 02, 2012, 10:42:53 AM
The seeds of hatred need to be planted?  I was pretty sure there were already full orchards of hatred before and nobles are vain and petty creatures.

If there wasn't people were doing it wrong.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: songqu88@gmail.com on January 03, 2012, 02:10:27 PM
After randomly poking around and reading about how the anon factory of the internet is capable of figuring out a whole ton of stuff, I wondered how come BM Invasions remain so veiled.

And I think I figured out a big part: We don't actually work towards a singular goal. A part of it is encouraged by the whole IC different goals stuff, which I suppose is "realistic", but those players whose characters do subversions shouldn't complain about how they don't know anything about the Invasions (Or maybe they do and they're just trolling y'all lol)

To remedy this, the 5th Invasion has given us a very good setup: We all know that the daimons are played by Tom. Therefore, we can run an internet factory of mass information production with a known goal: To show we are smarter than one guy.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Anaris on January 03, 2012, 03:11:18 PM
To remedy this, the 5th Invasion has given us a very good setup: We all know that the daimons are played by Tom. Therefore, we can run an internet factory of mass information production with a known goal: To show we are smarter than one guy.

Pfffhahahah!

Didn't you know that the IQ of a mob is the IQ of the stupidest member, divided by the number of people in it?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: songqu88@gmail.com on January 03, 2012, 03:42:10 PM
Anon factory effectiveness is actually inversely proportional to intelligence to each individual member, and directly proportional to size of sample, as well as the number of trials.

That means a whole bunch of idiots doing a bunch of random !@#$ a lot, then you'll get somewhere. It seems though that in general people in BM are individually too smart and that, ironically, means that the bigger community is a lot more idiotic as a result.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Zakilevo on January 03, 2012, 06:36:02 PM
Well we have a bunch of experienced people. Even a person who was dumb probably became smart by now after years of playing. I think we have too many super quiet smart people and not enough of idiots.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on January 03, 2012, 09:52:48 PM
To remedy this, the 5th Invasion has given us a very good setup: We all know that the daimons are played by Tom. Therefore, we can run an internet factory of mass information production with a known goal: To show we are smarter than one guy.

So far, you are failing. :)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: songqu88@gmail.com on January 03, 2012, 10:22:12 PM
Being smart in terms of the human game (which is 99.9% of the entire game) does not make a difference in Invasion style stuff. And I do mean that you might, in fact, see people try to use the same strategies that would be useful against humans (like, oh, subterfuge, wordplay, and all that blah blah happy stuff) against the invader factions. And while Dwilight is not Invasion Island Beluaterra, a similar phenomenon exists there with people interacting with daimons.

Again, egos. It's the lols. We all think we know a lot, but really, we don't, and it's only in talking to other people who are in the same boat as we are that we find out just how little we actually know. But we're all afraid to do it. Or we revel in our supposed superiority of knowing something that we think we alone know when in fact...we still actually know nothing.

Oh yeah, and on my end: Dude, I play an adventurer. I don't know anything. People don't talk to me except to tell me where the next monster/undead group is or where some random sage is that doesn't matter anyway because I don't have a unique item on hand and by the time I reach the region he's gone already.

So there's my contribution, which is...Zero. But hey, I would say that my zero contribution is actually better than everyone else's so far (Except those guys who are updating the wiki page. Good job for those dudes.) because I am at least honest about what I know (Nothing) and what I don't know (Everything).

And yes, I know there will be people who will say "But my character's supposed to be an evil conniving !@#$%^&." Yeah, good for you. It's also ICly realistic to ostracize those characters, and I will state right now that if anyone does not immediately exclude such characters from interacting with everyone else in the 5th Invasion, then that is wrong (Unless their characters are also the same, in which case my statement only applies to people who are not playing Evil !@#$%^& Characters)

Strangely enough, for some reason we generally accept evil !@#$%^& characters a lot more than is realistic. Some even have positions of power. Now ask yourself: Seriously, would you really elect an ex-con to represent you? Because in game terms, that's pretty much what you're doing. But hey, if you're that much of a naive idiot, that's cool too. Just remember that those foreign princes aren't real princes. And if they are, they probably don't need your account number.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Heq on January 03, 2012, 11:58:05 PM
I'll play theory machine, though IC I admit my characters are not working towards the betterment of mankind.

My main contention is that this is actually a control movement for Overlord, and that he has political reasons which do not involve humans for needing a war with the humans as an expansionary war.

I'll also suppose that the war with the Undead was not "won" so much as stalemated, as a true victory is likely impossible.  In effect, removing the human realms has as much to do with denying the undead future soldiers as wanting slaves for his own purposes.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: DoctorHarte on January 05, 2012, 03:08:01 AM
The 5th invasion is seeming to be much, much more entertaining. Partly because we're actually working together and partly because the Daimons aren't godly-powerful. I mean, they are super-tough, but not undefeatable. If they successfully cut off the north and the south, I dunno if the south would make it though...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: songqu88@gmail.com on January 05, 2012, 11:39:50 AM
Since the diplomacy screen is not blue across the board with a single cross of red corresponding to the Netherworld, that means there are still wacky openings galore to exploit. And woe unto the rabbits because Indirik pretty much revealed how the combat system works, generally, on the forums.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: ^ban^ on January 05, 2012, 11:57:45 AM
Since the diplomacy screen is not blue across the board with a single cross of red corresponding to the Netherworld, that means there are still wacky openings galore to exploit. And woe unto the rabbits because Indirik pretty much revealed how the combat system works, generally, on the forums.

...you mean his post about how attackers and defenders are chosen? That's nothing new. Hell, any competent General has known that stuff for years.

If that's not what you mean, you are way underestimating the complexity of combat.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: DoctorHarte on January 05, 2012, 05:05:20 PM
Tom and his late moves  >:(
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on January 05, 2012, 08:12:31 PM
Tom and his late moves  >:(

Please don't make accusations unless you know for a fact that they are true.

I don't intentionally make late moves.
But I don't let the game dictate my private life, and thus I play my turn whenever I happen to have time for it. Sometimes that's shortly after the turn (seldom on the full turn as that happens at 6 a.m. my time), more often it is a few hours after the turn. Rarely it is a few hours prior to the turn.

What I don't do is intentionally log in late.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: songqu88@gmail.com on January 06, 2012, 12:20:05 AM
Ooh ooh! I log in late when I don't have to worry about studying for exams! (Er...so that makes it like...maybe twice a month.)

Unfortunately my characters don't benefit from doing late turn stuff anyway. So I just get some sleep nowadays. Yay.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Sypher on January 06, 2012, 11:17:24 AM
If a big Daimon army is in the region next to you, probably should be prepared for an attack regardless of what the scouts tell you rather than be surprised.

Now.. if only my realm actually scouted regularly so we know where the Daimons are....  :(
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on January 06, 2012, 12:24:00 PM
Oh, you have no idea how hard I laughed when it turned out that everyone was looking for Nightfall of the East - who had been sitting still in a city and taking it over for days.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on January 06, 2012, 12:27:43 PM
Yeah... Go Enweil!
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: songqu88@gmail.com on January 06, 2012, 03:42:54 PM
You know what we need? The Power Rangers!
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Naidraug on January 06, 2012, 06:30:17 PM
And Captain Planet...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Zakilevo on January 06, 2012, 06:39:59 PM
Well. Nightfall of the East was sitting in the city and I knew that. But all that new years crap and other stuff totally made me forget to tell other generals LOL. But I did say how many daimons were in the city. I mean if you count all the generals on the field, it is quite easy to see who is in where.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: songqu88@gmail.com on January 06, 2012, 10:06:47 PM
And Captain Planet...

Truncated Power Rangers! "Earth! Fire! Wind! Agua! Gall bladder!"
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tan dSerrai on January 07, 2012, 12:39:50 AM
Zakilevo (the following is all OOC):
Nah, you did list  /all/ known daimon generals including position and strength (perfect work so far) - except for NF of the East (in Fheuvenem). Sassan kept asking where that b***ard was because he knew he was missing....boy was Sassan pissed when he found out. Still, what's to expect of my 'know-it-all-and-get-on-most-peoples-nerves' young general?

All in all I am having a blast. There is just enough hope to turn this thing around to make these exertions justified...and the mechanics are more 'visible' (well, we did need 1st son to practically hit us over the head with information about the mechanics, but still...). Its awesome that /finally/ during an invasion humanity seems to work together. As player I think that the rituals will be breaking our back. Just too few portalstones around. I always thought that gathering 8 was just a bit too much. Heh. I still have no clue where or when or why rituals are started but I guess I'll find out.

What I find curious is that /no/ adventurer managed to contact sages or wizards to have a scroll of teleportation made. I did suggest it to all riombaran adventurers 2-3 times now. They found books of daimon banishing, a portal stone....but no scrolls. So far.

Ah, can't wait to see how this turns out. I'd /hate/ to have Beluaterra destroyed.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Zakilevo on January 07, 2012, 01:28:16 AM
Yeah the 5th invasion is so much better than the 4th one. Those little daimon priests are helping (though I don't think people trust them too much). I hope something big is coming. One thing I miss from the 4th invasion is those role plays posted by other non-human forces. They were entertaining to watch.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Marlboro on January 07, 2012, 02:16:00 AM
What I find curious is that /no/ adventurer managed to contact sages or wizards to have a scroll of teleportation made. I did suggest it to all riombaran adventurers 2-3 times now. They found books of daimon banishing, a portal stone....but no scrolls. So far.

Oh yeah, darn those lazy adventurers. :P
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lefanis on January 07, 2012, 02:51:25 AM
Oh yeah, darn those lazy adventurers. :P

Hey! We've been working hard too  :)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: songqu88@gmail.com on January 07, 2012, 02:17:01 PM
I found a keg of beer. Now I just need to figure out how to multiply them indefinitely so I can do stuff without ever having the rest or sleep.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Thunthorn on January 07, 2012, 07:10:11 PM
My experienced adventurer on Beluaterra got himself killed by an undead champion just before the invasion. I did start another in Fronen, but I doubt he'll be of much use in this invasions. These books of Daimon banishing, are they found while gathering or do you need to kill champions/alphas for them?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Marlboro on January 07, 2012, 07:26:38 PM
My advy got beat up by one of the Nightfalls, so she got her recs and put a boot up his ass as a noble. Probably more efficient uses for a seasoned adventurer but I didn't want to spend the whole invasion searching for rare and riskies sixteen hours a day and finding maybe, maybe one item of a set. Also, never seen a wizard on BT. Not a one.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: songqu88@gmail.com on January 07, 2012, 10:15:29 PM
The faction exterminating books are found randomly, and it seems on a separate counter than the normal gathering.

I know this because I paid attention, and even though this was on Dwilight, and it was a Book of Monster Hunting, I am fairly confident that it works for Books of Daimon Banishing on Beluaterra.

I tried on Balanced and Boring, 16 hours. After the standard report on what happened each hour, at the very bottom, it says something like "You also find a .... blah blah blah..." And it is not included in the hours you spend.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tan dSerrai on January 08, 2012, 12:01:08 PM
It may be conincidence but a riombaran adventurer did find a book of daimon banishing in Avengmil /right/ after Nightfall of the south was defeated and killed/ressurrected/killedorvanished there.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: songqu88@gmail.com on January 08, 2012, 01:51:32 PM
Man...if only the Dream still gave adventurer characters free books.

/me wonders if Tom will run a promo campaign for his books by giving out a ton of scrolls and/or books to players' BT characters who preorder or something. Or the MacGuffin of solving the plot. Or the plothole to break out and enter the Fourth Wall.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Vellos on January 09, 2012, 12:52:01 AM
So.... 127,000 CS in Zuhle.

Yup. Now that's an invasion.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Heq on January 09, 2012, 08:05:25 AM
Wait...Tom has a book that has pre-orders?

Damn American political season ruining my knowledge base.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on January 09, 2012, 09:45:58 AM
Wait...Tom has a book that has pre-orders?

Damn American political season ruining my knowledge base.

Uh, what?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: De-Legro on January 09, 2012, 10:00:22 AM
Wait...Tom has a book that has pre-orders?

Damn American political season ruining my knowledge base.

He has a book that you can purchase right now, in fact there is a news post about it when you log in.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on January 09, 2012, 12:49:50 PM
/me wonders if Tom will run a promo campaign for his books by giving out a ton of scrolls and/or books to players' BT characters who preorder or something. Or the MacGuffin of solving the plot. Or the plothole to break out and enter the Fourth Wall.

No. But the book reveals what the Soulforges are...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: songqu88@gmail.com on January 09, 2012, 02:42:33 PM
Forges...that...have something to do with souls...?

I wonder if we'll get to see appearances from actual faction leaders that appeared in-game. Like Tarchennan and Argent having a battle of fate as the Many face off against the daimons, the elders of the Netherworld intervening, lightning and thunder in the backdrop as the two evil powers collide in a battle of evil versus evil.

Or a scene in which many peasants give up their lives into the warm embracing light as Marta hums a melody that parts the black clouds in the sky, spreading a soft white radiance that becomes a searing bright light to the surrounding daimons waiting to breach the walls.

Ok, those didn't happen in the actual game, but you know what they say...

All fiction is equally true: That is, they are all, by definition, 0% true.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on January 09, 2012, 03:20:51 PM
Forges...that...have something to do with souls...?

Overlord has only mentioned them in roughly every other message. How could anyone not know the term by now?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Vellos on January 09, 2012, 04:59:13 PM
Overlord has only mentioned them in roughly every other message. How could anyone not know the term by now?

C'mon Tom, everybody knows Medieval nobles are illiterate.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: songqu88@gmail.com on January 09, 2012, 06:59:29 PM
Overlord has only mentioned them in roughly every other message. How could anyone not know the term by now?

Well because not everyone is part of the nobility, or reads the wiki.

As far as my character on BT is concerned, he sees this temple of Daimon Worship, has no clue what the hell a daimon is, and has never seen one.

Basically, there are no such things as daimons in his eyes, and so far there is no evidence for him to think otherwise. The Blight? Looks like some natural weather phenomena. That doesn't mean anything.

Basically, I'm playing severe devil's advocate (lol) and presenting a plausible situation in which a human on BT can go through this entire Invasion without ever knowing what a daimon is, and yet still not be living under a rock (Larry's traveled from as south as Enweil to as far north as Thalmarkin)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on January 09, 2012, 11:45:43 PM
The Blight? Looks like some natural weather phenomena. That doesn't mean anything.

You need to read Beyond the Blight - it has several stories giving a much better description of the Blight and what it looks and feels like and why your character will certainly not confuse it with bad weather if he gets anywhere near it.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Heq on January 10, 2012, 05:38:00 AM
Sorry, it came on the announce pages just as the run-up to the American Republican Primaries began.

I'm sure I'll become increasingly incoherant as the process continues, I keep forgetting that in the sane parts of the world people don't get 24/7 coverage of gibbering lunacy.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tan dSerrai on January 10, 2012, 09:42:00 AM
(ahem...off topic, I know)
Actually even here in Austria (not Australia) we have quite a bit of coverage of american primaries. 12 years back I think there was close to zero coverage....that certainly has changed. I think it stems from dread of what /might/ happen.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: De-Legro on January 10, 2012, 09:42:31 AM
Sorry, it came on the announce pages just as the run-up to the American Republican Primaries began.

I'm sure I'll become increasingly incoherant as the process continues, I keep forgetting that in the sane parts of the world people don't get 24/7 coverage of gibbering lunacy.

Turn off the TV?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Marlboro on January 11, 2012, 12:20:39 AM
(ahem...off topic, I know)
Actually even here in Austria (not Australia) we have quite a bit of coverage of american primaries. 12 years back I think there was close to zero coverage....that certainly has changed. I think it stems from dread of what /might/ happen.

The American media is obligated to report whatever crazy thing any aspiring politician says, even if they have zero chance of getting elected. Maybe some background will help you guys out: American presidents can serve two terms (You probably already know this, I'm not trying to be patronizing), and they are almost always reelected because Americans love an incumbent. Means less work for us, less change to the status quo. The part most people outside the US don't know is that if you win the primaries (Thus getting your party's nomination), but lose the actual presidential election, the party won't let you run again. Ever, even if you're like 40 and have a whole life of politics ahead of you, your presidential aspirations are over after a loss. So, the only people that run against a sitting president are usually people seeking publicity (Recent examples: Donald Trump, Herman Cain, Newt Gingrich) or just the fringe weirdos who'd never snag a candidacy during a normal election (Michelle Bachman, Rick Santorum, and Ron Paul, though Paul runs in every primary and has never won the Republican candidacy). Mitt Romney is the only serious candidate, and he's a religious pariah, so the rest of the world can basically look forward to four more years of Obama.

You're all free to tune out the rest of this sad dog and pony show, and let's kick some Daimon ass.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Zakilevo on January 11, 2012, 12:35:18 AM
It would be interesting to see the US go bankrupted thanks to Senators in Washington.

Back to the invasion, Overlord started with over 130 k CS and now he is down to somewhere around 60 k. Don't know what is going on but he is losing his men fast.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Thunthorn on January 11, 2012, 12:38:04 AM
Denver Jeffrey banished a lot of his Daimons before getting himself captured.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Zakilevo on January 11, 2012, 12:47:21 AM
Do we still have some scrolls left? What is the big difference between book and scroll?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Thunthorn on January 11, 2012, 12:53:39 AM
An adventurer can use three books in a ritual that will yield him some scrolls but also strengthening the veil between Netherworld and Beluaterra making it harder for the Daimons to summon reinforcements.

Scrolls can be used by anyone but will be more efficient for those who developes a spellcasting skill.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Heq on January 11, 2012, 09:19:26 AM
De-Legro, oh, that would be the dream.  Sadly it's part of my "career" or "suicide attempt" (take your pick).  When I catch a taxi and they ask what I do for a living I actually have to request they don't punch me first, sometimes I consider lying and saying I'm an unemployable pedophile just so I can feel a little less dirty.

Back on topic, that's probably why I think Overlord has much less control then he lets on.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on January 12, 2012, 06:32:30 PM
Huh, either Overlord is trying to make lemonade out of lemons, or we've been duped by 1st Son. Which would be a little irritating actually, since we've been given absolutely no other indication that I am aware of of what we need to be doing to save ourselves...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Marlboro on January 12, 2012, 07:35:37 PM
Back on topic, that's probably why I think Overlord has much less control then he lets on.

It's possible, because how do you really control a race of monsters that's motivated entirely by personal gain?

Huh, either Overlord is trying to make lemonade out of lemons, or we've been duped by 1st Son. Which would be a little irritating actually, since we've been given absolutely no other indication that I am aware of of what we need to be doing to save ourselves...

How about "Don't trust Daimons"?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Telrunya on January 12, 2012, 07:46:11 PM
No worries. There's nothing you can do to save yourself! The Light is already gone, we're all doomed ;)

Just kill as many Daimons as you can before you inevitably perish!
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Indirik on January 12, 2012, 08:10:32 PM
Kill the daimons? Why would you want to do something like that? The daimons are our friends. The are here to help us. ;)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on January 12, 2012, 08:21:31 PM
Huh, either Overlord is trying to make lemonade out of lemons, or we've been duped by 1st Son. Which would be a little irritating actually, since we've been given absolutely no other indication that I am aware of of what we need to be doing to save ourselves...

It's not the job of your enemies to tell you how to defeat them, you know?

I'm having a blast. But now it's time for the fun and games to end and the real invasion to begin... nah, just messing with you. Again.  ;D
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Telrunya on January 12, 2012, 08:28:41 PM
Kill the daimons? Why would you want to do something like that? The daimons are our friends. The are here to help us. ;)

Should have thought about that when they actually offered to become 'friends' :P
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on January 12, 2012, 08:58:49 PM
Should have thought about that when they actually offered to become 'friends' :P

Totally. About the only thing where I would've had no clue on how to react would have been if on the first "surrender or die" message everyone would've replied "ok, we surrender. Hail Overlord, our new master." :)

Fortunately, I correctly guessed that wouldn't happen.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Indirik on January 12, 2012, 09:13:32 PM
Well, if I were on BT back then, I may have accepted. It would have been interesting, to say the least.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Zakilevo on January 12, 2012, 09:24:00 PM
Indeed. Helping daimons out is very tempting.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on January 12, 2012, 10:05:15 PM
Oh well... not like anyone was counting on the Light to begin with. If they want to help, they shouldn't always be so late to the party.

Now where are those Archons?!
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on January 12, 2012, 10:23:36 PM
It's not the job of your enemies to tell you how to defeat them, you know?

I'm having a blast. But now it's time for the fun and games to end and the real invasion to begin... nah, just messing with you. Again.  ;D

Which is a totally fair point, but that being the case I would have thought that there would be an alternate source of information about how we can slow or stop the Invasion. In the absence of *any* other plot hooks (and in all fairness I am hardly privy to everything that's going on on the island, so there might be some I'm completely unaware of), are you really that surprised that the rulers cottoned on to the only one being offered to us? We weren't exactly given any other options to choose from...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: songqu88@gmail.com on January 13, 2012, 12:05:20 AM
Kill the daimons? Why would you want to do something like that? The daimons are our friends. The are here to help us. ;)

Wrong island, lol? (Don't take that seriously.)

And the Light's not dead! Listen to the fat lady (Marta) who sang (Guess that means it was over I guess) and said that we need...wait that was Virgil. Oh well, keep up the faith, whatever that means.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on January 13, 2012, 12:19:21 AM
Which is a totally fair point, but that being the case I would have thought that there would be an alternate source of information about how we can slow or stop the Invasion. In the absence of *any* other plot hooks (and in all fairness I am hardly privy to everything that's going on on the island, so there might be some I'm completely unaware of), are you really that surprised that the rulers cottoned on to the only one being offered to us? We weren't exactly given any other options to choose from...

...which could have been part of the plan? If I were a con man, the first thing I'd try to make sure is that my information is the only one you get.

You are too used to 3rd and 4th invasion logic - that some NPC somewhere will tell you the plot, like a quest-giver in WoW. Rude awakening: The quest-giver has his own agenda.  ;D

But I know that I am dropping enough clues, making my actions and their consequences and the chains of causality clear enough, because I know that many of the important rules have already been concluded correctly by at least one person. So they can be concluded from the evidence available. Now given the various distrusts, hostilities, gaps in knowledge, loss of information, etc. etc. the task is certainly hard. But it's not impossible.

Oh, and do make sure you verify all your assumptions. It may not be the conclusions that are off, it may be the assumptions you start with. That you need a plot hook to survive the invasion may be one of them.


But the invasion so far is an extremely interesting social experiment. I think next time I'll call in a few psychology and sociology students and let them map out the flow of information amongs players. It is utterly fascinating. Can't say more without giving things away, unfortunately. Well, maybe one thing: Lots of people are wondering what the heck just happened in Villriil, even though some players know exactly what happened.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Zakilevo on January 13, 2012, 12:24:01 AM
Huh I wonder who those people are. We know for sure we have traitors among us. Should check where people are more often.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Sypher on January 13, 2012, 03:00:38 AM
After reading the messages my character got....

*facepalm*

Its like we trying to sink the island.

Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: songqu88@gmail.com on January 13, 2012, 03:44:39 AM
Well some characters are...

Wonder if their players will complain if BT really is sunk.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Sypher on January 13, 2012, 04:13:16 AM
Well some characters are...

Wonder if their players will complain if BT really is sunk.

I could see that happening.

But the invasion so far is an extremely interesting social experiment. I think next time I'll call in a few psychology and sociology students and let them map out the flow of information amongs players. It is utterly fascinating. Can't say more without giving things away, unfortunately. Well, maybe one thing: Lots of people are wondering what the heck just happened in Villriil, even though some players know exactly what happened.

A lot of people do seem to be stingy on sharing info. My character is a Judge of apparently one of the realms involved w/ what happened in Villriil and I didn't know what was going on. Partly my fault for not asking questions about the couple vague letters I saw.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Zakilevo on January 13, 2012, 04:40:12 AM
I still don't know what happened in Villriil. I actually gave up on that region long time ago. My attention is focused on Piwani. That region will be pivotal for both daimons and humans.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Sypher on January 13, 2012, 04:57:40 AM
Yorick shared the letters he now has with all the other Judges so its available. I still can't believe that so many people apparently thought it was a good idea.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on January 13, 2012, 05:22:30 AM
...which could have been part of the plan? If I were a con man, the first thing I'd try to make sure is that my information is the only one you get.

You are too used to 3rd and 4th invasion logic - that some NPC somewhere will tell you the plot, like a quest-giver in WoW. Rude awakening: The quest-giver has his own agenda.  ;D

But I know that I am dropping enough clues, making my actions and their consequences and the chains of causality clear enough, because I know that many of the important rules have already been concluded correctly by at least one person. So they can be concluded from the evidence available. Now given the various distrusts, hostilities, gaps in knowledge, loss of information, etc. etc. the task is certainly hard. But it's not impossible.

Oh, and do make sure you verify all your assumptions. It may not be the conclusions that are off, it may be the assumptions you start with. That you need a plot hook to survive the invasion may be one of them.


But the invasion so far is an extremely interesting social experiment. I think next time I'll call in a few psychology and sociology students and let them map out the flow of information amongs players. It is utterly fascinating. Can't say more without giving things away, unfortunately. Well, maybe one thing: Lots of people are wondering what the heck just happened in Villriil, even though some players know exactly what happened.

Lots of good points here. A couple of points of my own:

1. The con man did a masterful job. I don't know if it was coincidence or contrived, but he managed to look prophetic by predicting what would happen in Zuhle, so the obvious line of thinking goes that if we do nothing, the same thing will happen in Vilriil since he says the same thing is happening there. By that metric, we can hardly make things worse by trying something, right? Since after all if we do nothing again the region will still be blighted. Well it appears we were WRONG, but it's a very easy line of thinking to fall into.

2. It's only natural to assume that this Invasion will be similar to the ones that preceded it. Point taken however.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Zakilevo on January 13, 2012, 07:59:23 AM
Well if we are going to do something I say we take Piwani and Tey Gren back and smash those foul temples!
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on January 13, 2012, 09:32:42 AM
Its like we trying to sink the island.

My thoughts exactly. I delayed several actions because I just couldn't believe you made it so easy for me. Also because there were the holidays inbetween and I understand lowered activity during that time.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on January 13, 2012, 09:35:27 AM
1. The con man did a masterful job. I don't know if it was coincidence or contrived, but he managed to look prophetic by predicting what would happen in Zuhle, so the obvious line of thinking goes that if we do nothing, the same thing will happen in Vilriil since he says the same thing is happening there. By that metric, we can hardly make things worse by trying something, right? Since after all if we do nothing again the region will still be blighted. Well it appears we were WRONG, but it's a very easy line of thinking to fall into.

Absolutely. That was carefully set up, and there are at least two if not three layers of misdirection. Basically, I put out tons of clues and evidence, and then I spend a lot of effort covering it up and otherwise making sure you miss it. It's great fun.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: D`Este on January 13, 2012, 10:31:56 AM
My thoughts exactly. I delayed several actions because I just couldn't believe you made it so easy for me. Also because there were the holidays inbetween and I understand lowered activity during that time.

You know for what clues we should be looking, we don't. Which might give the wrong impression of hard/easy. Although I have to admit that my chars aren't actively involved and I only see what's posted to the realm.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on January 13, 2012, 10:57:53 AM
You know for what clues we should be looking, we don't. Which might give the wrong impression of hard/easy.

I am aware of that. I monitor closely what the players appear to know and where they are guessing wildly. And I try to drop hints to many people, not just individuals, so even if many of them ignore them, chances are one of them will pick it up.

Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: songqu88@gmail.com on January 16, 2012, 02:17:52 PM
Meanwhile on FEI where some people are being paranoid about daimons all the way on BT...

Southern logic once more comes up with an amazing rational explanation for the events happening on BT.

Let me explain to you why this is important.

BM is low fantasy, and it's more or less like our real world. Sure there are monsters, but we have real world "monsters" too. Ever take a look at deep sea fish? And I'm sure if you've ever been in southeast Asian jungles you'd call tigers monsters too. Point is, those aren't that farfetched. They're just normal animals that people haven't yet identified, since Linnaeus wouldn't be born in BM until a few centuries later to bring forth his nomenclature. Modern interpretations also believe that some ancient depictions of stuff like dragons and griffons and the such were actually artists' interpretations of reports from explorers of non-native species.

What about undead? Well, actually...There are real world voodoo rituals that create "zombies". And, well, premature burials weren't exactly uncommon back then either. So it's not that strange to think that some people you thought were dead really weren't, and just came back a while later (human body is actually pretty resilient and can survive for a while without food or water. It's exposure generally that kills fastest when a body is outside, and since the body is buried, it's certainly not being exposed too much...) There's also a modern interpretation of one aspect of the "walking dead". Shortly after death, as rigor sets in, the body twitches, making the corpse, in fact, move. While this does not occur long after death, injecting the muscles with ATP would delay the onset of rigor by preventing the muscles from clamping up. That might alter the timeline whereby someone sees a walking corpse.

Daimons? Now there's the thing. Modern interpretations of demonic possessions pin it on medical conditions (seizures) or drugs. What about seeing daimons? ...Drugs. Anyone played Uncharted 3 where Nate has to fight those fire demons that came from the "smokeless fire"? Yeah, those were illusions caused by drinking the water that inspired immense fear and scary hallucinations. But in the end, there were no actual demons. Just...demonic water...filled with drugs.

And that's Fred's explanation for the daimons in BT. And the Blight. The Blight's the huge area where the initial experiments to create a drug that would control the continent took place. The clouds? Obviously toxic fumes of who knows what weird chemicals were in those experiments. The land being mutilated? Yeah, pouring toxic waste into the soil does that. The strange creatures? Uh...you know those REAL WORLD reports about frogs living near polluted water that have strange mutations? Yeah....The daimons? Hallucinations since the entire continent's been exposed to the airborne hallucinogens. Though why do the daimons actually do damage? Two explanations. First, they do have actual forms, but not as daimons. In reality they may just be the drug creaters/experimenters. So Overlord would therefore be a druglord, and have a fitting name. And Nightfall, Midnight, etc, have to do with the progression of symptoms (Fading vision, blindness, death). Another explanation is that it doesn't matter whether it's real so long as the brain thinks it is. For all they know, people could be killing each other, thinking the other side was the daimons. Or it could be a combination. Fact is, this theory fits really well. And if it weren't for the fact that you're probably all too close-minded due to the fact that you think Mr. Tom guy says "This is the fact: There are daimons", you'd actually wonder whether what I said makes sense. But probably not...since, you know...Tom says those are real daimons or something.

So there you go. Y'all are Moulder, and I'm the Scully.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on January 16, 2012, 05:41:56 PM
So there you go. Y'all are Moulder, and I'm the Scully.

The problem is that you ignore an important aspect - that BM is low fantasy, but not no-fantasy.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: songqu88@gmail.com on January 16, 2012, 06:19:23 PM
Ah, it seems then that you are of the rather extreme opinion that our real world is in fact no-fantasy.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Marlboro on January 17, 2012, 05:07:13 AM
Ah, it seems then that you are of the rather extreme opinion that our real world is in fact no-fantasy.

Interesting point.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: De-Legro on January 17, 2012, 05:13:07 AM
Meanwhile on FEI where some people are being paranoid about daimons all the way on BT...

Southern logic once more comes up with an amazing rational explanation for the events happening on BT.

Let me explain to you why this is important.

BM is low fantasy, and it's more or less like our real world. Sure there are monsters, but we have real world "monsters" too. Ever take a look at deep sea fish? And I'm sure if you've ever been in southeast Asian jungles you'd call tigers monsters too. Point is, those aren't that farfetched. They're just normal animals that people haven't yet identified, since Linnaeus wouldn't be born in BM until a few centuries later to bring forth his nomenclature. Modern interpretations also believe that some ancient depictions of stuff like dragons and griffons and the such were actually artists' interpretations of reports from explorers of non-native species.

What about undead? Well, actually...There are real world voodoo rituals that create "zombies". And, well, premature burials weren't exactly uncommon back then either. So it's not that strange to think that some people you thought were dead really weren't, and just came back a while later (human body is actually pretty resilient and can survive for a while without food or water. It's exposure generally that kills fastest when a body is outside, and since the body is buried, it's certainly not being exposed too much...) There's also a modern interpretation of one aspect of the "walking dead". Shortly after death, as rigor sets in, the body twitches, making the corpse, in fact, move. While this does not occur long after death, injecting the muscles with ATP would delay the onset of rigor by preventing the muscles from clamping up. That might alter the timeline whereby someone sees a walking corpse.

Daimons? Now there's the thing. Modern interpretations of demonic possessions pin it on medical conditions (seizures) or drugs. What about seeing daimons? ...Drugs. Anyone played Uncharted 3 where Nate has to fight those fire demons that came from the "smokeless fire"? Yeah, those were illusions caused by drinking the water that inspired immense fear and scary hallucinations. But in the end, there were no actual demons. Just...demonic water...filled with drugs.

And that's Fred's explanation for the daimons in BT. And the Blight. The Blight's the huge area where the initial experiments to create a drug that would control the continent took place. The clouds? Obviously toxic fumes of who knows what weird chemicals were in those experiments. The land being mutilated? Yeah, pouring toxic waste into the soil does that. The strange creatures? Uh...you know those REAL WORLD reports about frogs living near polluted water that have strange mutations? Yeah....The daimons? Hallucinations since the entire continent's been exposed to the airborne hallucinogens. Though why do the daimons actually do damage? Two explanations. First, they do have actual forms, but not as daimons. In reality they may just be the drug creaters/experimenters. So Overlord would therefore be a druglord, and have a fitting name. And Nightfall, Midnight, etc, have to do with the progression of symptoms (Fading vision, blindness, death). Another explanation is that it doesn't matter whether it's real so long as the brain thinks it is. For all they know, people could be killing each other, thinking the other side was the daimons. Or it could be a combination. Fact is, this theory fits really well. And if it weren't for the fact that you're probably all too close-minded due to the fact that you think Mr. Tom guy says "This is the fact: There are daimons", you'd actually wonder whether what I said makes sense. But probably not...since, you know...Tom says those are real daimons or something.

So there you go. Y'all are Moulder, and I'm the Scully.

Scully's explanations are generally a bit more plausible then this. Other then trying to explain how if the entire continent is suffering from hallucinogens yet still manage to go about the daily requirements of tending the fields, operating the cities etc, exactly what process of medieval technology do you think is producing a toxic waste that would mutate the land so quickly?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Heq on January 17, 2012, 06:13:30 AM
To be fair, the FEI is super-religious in a lot of places, and ascribes a lot of things to supernatural motives.  Even if the world of Battlemaster were complete realistic, the beliefs of the people living in the medieval world was anything but rational and materialistic.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Norrel on January 17, 2012, 06:34:43 AM
Ah, it seems then that you are of the rather extreme opinion that our real world is in fact no-fantasy.
I'm pretty sure that in the real world we don't periodically fight hordes of giant spiders that attack towns.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: De-Legro on January 17, 2012, 07:48:09 AM
I'm pretty sure that in the real world we don't periodically fight hordes of giant spiders that attack towns.

We do in Australia, every summer.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Calanar on January 17, 2012, 09:57:41 AM
So why don't we ship off to EC and bring the elves in? Fight fantasy with fantasy!!! I'm kidding of course. I feel like I've missed most of the clues... ;D

Though, maybe Soren stumbled onto something with his insanity after all...

1) If we assume that none of the invasions necessarily have the same monsters/dead/daimons, but variations of them, then there's a clue there as to what's going on, mostly based on what Overlord and his sons know, and their actions/concerns.

2) Executing the leaders brings in stronger Daimons, but aside from the different types of daimons on the field, the only active ones are the Sons and Overlord.

3) We have the reports of humans surviving in the Blight.

4) Most of the land blighting seems to be set up to make us panic, and reduce support for our armies than actually cutting off and killing us at the moment.

5) If we consider some of the background information to this war, then we should assume that the portal stones are our enemies, at the moment, and the books of Banishing are our best bet. That doesn't mean we should ignore the stones either, if they're as powerful as noted.

That's all I'm sharing OOC. Though Soren's been pondering over it long enough, I might share it IC soon.

I'll leave my thoughts on a possible clue here for the moment, so you all can consider it/Tom can laugh at my clueless mind.

***According to Tom, there's usually some connection between the invasions, but not necessarily a continued story. Yet, if we think about what was said by Overlord, there's a reason there are only Daimons here this time, and if we consider their comments on the Light, perhaps there's an interesting tie between the invasions after all.***
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: songqu88@gmail.com on January 17, 2012, 12:53:27 PM
I'm pretty sure that in the real world we don't periodically fight hordes of giant spiders that attack towns.

I'm pretty sure in our real world our "monsters" have changed along with the changing times.

Back in the Medieval days (like BM) there were many strange creatures because Europe simply hadn't seen that much stuff.

Modern world? Well, my dear boy, you are forgetting that our monsters of today, that invade our lives, and kill many, have been the enemies we have always fought yet only recently could see: Bacteria, viruses, and prions, three infectious agents, all organic, but not all "alive".

You really don't think those would be considered "fantasy"? Try going back in time to the Middle Ages in Europe where no one had invented even the simplest light microscope and try telling them that there was a tiny organism that infected their bodies and killed them from the inside (Well, they did have an idea of bacterial infections, and maybe even viral infections...don't get your hopes up for the viral infections though.)

But wait it gets better. Even if they buy into your description of bacteria, try describing viruses to them. Tiny things they can't see or touch, that are just cases of protein that carry genetic information (Haha, good luck trying to explain genes. Our good monk Mendel won't be around for another five hundred or so years). Then explain that these viruses might not even be considered alive, that all they do is present certain markers on their protein coats that allow them to infiltrate our bodies' cells and cause them to replicate the viral genome until the host's death. Also explain to them that some such viruses can survive for thousands of years in a dormant state.

And then try explaining prions to them. By the time you say "protein" you'd probably get a few looks. Even better when you try explaining that proteins form the necessary structural components of pretty much everything in our body. And then tell them about how those aren't actually alive either, but can still infect our brains, somehow tearing holes into the tissue and eventually leading to a painful and absolute death. Oh, and that there are no methods available either to them (Medieval people) or modern people, to denature or otherwise destroy those prions, and that once infected, death is certain.

The thing is, in our modern world, there is a different culture. Had we not gotten more into science and rational thinking, then our worldviews on stuff like tiny little invaders would be a lot different. And that raises a good point too. Why do we think that the "fantasy" analogues in our realm have to be within our scope? The whole point is that such supernatural things are unseen and rarely understood (Interestingly, for a good number of diseases we still don't know the 100% mechanisms.)

Also, for the macocosmic fantasy...Go talk to a theoretical physicist. Now that's some HIGH fantasy right there.

Now...further regarding the Blight, Soulforge, etc, to give a plausible explanation...

I think that a continental change is indeed possible, however, it requires a certain deal of open-mindedness even if Mr. Tom shoots it down. This is just a very non-IC theoretical poke (Look, whatever higher being out there doesn't go and tell the theoretical scientists of every era that has subsequently been proven wrong by later generations of humans that they're wrong. He/she/it/they pretty much sit back and watch the silly humans try to figure it out themselves, finding mistakes along the way to correct previous mistakes, but making new ones in the process.)

So here's the thing: Continental change is indeed possible, and indeed possible in such a short time period, via rapid and irresponsible use of different technology that exacts a cost on the land.

My theory: "Daimons" are not so much daimons, as the hallucinations formed by affected minds. The "daimons" could have true forms, which might in fact be that of the people who brought in the new technology. This does not mean that they had to have fantasy aspects. To the contrary, I would contend that nothing in BM actually says that the timeline of technological progress must be equivalent to the technological progress of our real world. And why should it? There were so many different factors that determined how our world progressed, just like how BM progressed. It is entirely possible that the world of BM came to know how to industrialize long before our real world did.

Now why does that matter? Well, because rapid and irresponsible industrialization does, in fact, have swift continental effects. We can even see it in our real world (Not going to name any names though). Only we managed to get in a lot of regulations somewhat on time (heh, global warming...)

Consider then the scenario in which industrialization occurs, people don't really understand it, use it irresponsibly, then discover that they can mass produce happy fumes. Look, I'm not saying that those BM people knew what the heck they were doing. Actually, to the contrary, they probably had no clue what they were doing, which is the whole reason the Blight formed in the first place. In our real world, most of the time WE don't even know what we're doing. A ton of discoveries were made because we had no clue what was going on, and were just lucky enough that whatever surprising thing happened didn't end up killing us, or at least not too many of us (Though sometimes they did)

So my thought is that Overlord is a drug lord and/or mad scientist, and his Soulforge is a code name for his mass producing system of labs that create hallucinogenic drugs that can be put into the air. The Blight is the result of increased pollution in the environment that had mutagenic properties, which had very rapid time-course. Do these things exist in the real world? Well, nothing we know of that acts so quickly...I think?

Anyway, the origin was that the original "daimons" were ambitious researchers who wanted to dominate the world or something (Hey, I never said the intent had to be that different). And so they decided to find something that could help them with that. When they discovered a way to make stuff that would cause fear in people and make them seem really powerful, they were like "Heck yeah!" and did it even more. That's why the Blight only started appearing in Inv 4. That's when they got a bit carried away.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on January 17, 2012, 01:48:42 PM
I'm sorry.

While this is an interesting thought-experiment, it misses the point of BM being a fantasy world in the "fantasy" sense of the word, not in the "unexplained phenomenon" sense. Those Daimons are really creatures from another plane of existence, and those undead really are undead, and those monsters really are abnormal (though not supernatural) creatures, not just some unfamiliar animals.

And then there's the magic scrolls we have, not just on BT.

Explaining actual magic in a game world with science is just as misguided as explaining real-world explainable events with magic.

In the real world, I'm a top skeptic and will gladly rip a darn big hole into your belief system if you try to talk to me about anything supernatural, "alternative", esoteric or religious. But in my fictional worlds, whether it's BM, some other computer game, a book, movie or whatever, I am looking for internal consistency, not real-world explanations (unless your book/movie/game claims to play in the real world).

Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Vellos on January 17, 2012, 06:14:26 PM
I just know that my character is loving the Invasion. Sitting on the walls of Fwuvoghor with blight all about me is delightful.

Now if only Melegra could get blighted too, I could be an island of light in a sea of darkness.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: fodder on January 17, 2012, 07:01:28 PM
melegra? forget melegra... wonder what will happen if you blight ardmore...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Telrunya on January 17, 2012, 07:27:08 PM
Go for Kuugl :) Then watch as Enweil and Riombara start up their old feud with no means to reach the other!
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: fodder on January 17, 2012, 07:42:53 PM
... that's not as bad as having your realm chopped in half with no way of reaching bits of it...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: D`Este on January 17, 2012, 08:01:46 PM
melegra? forget melegra... wonder what will happen if you blight ardmore...

No, leave Ardmore, my poor peasants!
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on January 17, 2012, 11:15:07 PM
No, leave Ardmore, my poor peasants!

They might be poor, but darn are they tasty... *eg*
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: De-Legro on January 17, 2012, 11:51:08 PM
They might be poor, but darn are they tasty... *eg*

Its all that wholesome dirt they eat in lieu of food. Surprisingly a great seasoning.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Vellos on January 18, 2012, 12:22:51 AM
... that's not as bad as having your realm chopped in half with no way of reaching bits of it...

I've always wanted to secede....
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: songqu88@gmail.com on January 18, 2012, 12:54:34 AM
The peasants taste good because they are filled with the drugs (Actually, Frank Herbert's Dune anyone? The spices give limited prescience and blue glowy eyes). Actually come to think of it...

Get a bunch of holy women who remember their past lives, then pronounce a male child to be the Holy Kangaroo Rat. And have his successor get eaten by a big worm monster. And then you win.

Yay.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: De-Legro on January 18, 2012, 01:07:48 AM
The peasants taste good because they are filled with the drugs (Actually, Frank Herbert's Dune anyone? The spices give limited prescience and blue glowy eyes). Actually come to think of it...

Get a bunch of holy women who remember their past lives, then pronounce a male child to be the Holy Kangaroo Rat. And have his successor get eaten by a big worm monster. And then you win.

Yay.

Spice saturation creates blue eyes yes. When someone with the right DNA is exposed to lethal amounts of spice they can become prescient. Paul is named after the image that can be seen on one of the two moons of Arrakis, which just happens to be a desert rat. His son isn't eaten by a Sandworm, his son fuses with the larval form of sandworm to become a hybrid creature.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Vellos on January 18, 2012, 01:14:24 AM
Spice saturation creates blue eyes yes. When someone with the right DNA is exposed to lethal amounts of spice they can become prescient. Paul is named after the image that can be seen on one of the two moons of Arrakis, which just happens to be a desert rat. His son isn't eaten by a Sandworm, his son fuses with the larval form of sandworm to become a hybrid creature.

Well, aren't we Mr. Particular today.

 ;D
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: De-Legro on January 18, 2012, 01:16:12 AM
Well, aren't we Mr. Particular today.

 ;D

Why only today :)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: songqu88@gmail.com on January 18, 2012, 01:49:11 AM
lol...Well, obviously we can't just out and plagiarize.

On the other hand...The Soulforge really gives me Diablo series vibes (Blizzard's series. 3 coming out in March or something.)

They had three prime evils, who had soulstones, and there was a Hellforge Hammer that was used to smash Mephisto's soulstone. Er...other stuff...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Marlboro on January 18, 2012, 06:58:16 PM
Somebody better find a Sage who can make a Hellforge Hammer then!

I'd imagine a soulforge makes soulsteel (or at least something like it), the souls of the dead hammered into various Daimonic metals which are used to make their weapons and armor. Could be why that peasant was so terrified of the Overlord's armor.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: fodder on January 20, 2012, 06:19:37 AM
eh... if the daimons are looking for a forge... why are you bringing the hammer to use to whack it with?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Draco Tanos on January 20, 2012, 06:20:22 AM
Same reason portal stones were used!  The daimons told them it was a good idea.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: De-Legro on January 20, 2012, 06:25:27 AM
Same reason portal stones were used!  The daimons told them it was a good idea.

The Daimons also say it is a good idea to send all your gold to the De-Legro family coffers.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Zakilevo on January 20, 2012, 06:31:47 AM
Do not listen to anyone from De-Legro! They are servants of daimons!  8)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: De-Legro on January 20, 2012, 06:49:31 AM
Do not listen to anyone from De-Legro! They are servants of daimons!  8)

Hopefully rich Servants of Daimons
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on January 20, 2012, 10:43:36 AM
Hopefully rich Servants of Daimons

Sign up with Daimon Worship. I have so much gold from people buying their freedom from the Daimon prison, even though most prisoners I wait until I can torture them, then torture them once and set them free (because I want them to play, not rot in the dungeon). I do make exceptions, though (hi Max *g*).
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Marlboro on January 20, 2012, 10:55:28 PM
The best part of Hell Prison is the food. Since they don't serve you any, and the rest of it is mind-exploding horror.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: DoctorHarte on January 22, 2012, 09:10:43 PM
I was surprised I managed to evade over 1200 Daimons in Sheja was it? Also pumped for round 2 of Daimon-thrashing. Most realm should have been able to refit by now. Just watch the statistics..
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Calanar on January 23, 2012, 07:07:05 AM
Aside from Tom, does anyone have a single clue as to what we should be doing? I hadn't even heard word that Piwani was being Blighted this time.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: fodder on January 23, 2012, 09:53:07 AM
heh... is anyone trapped outside of realm? XD

like.. any kings, generals, etc?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tan dSerrai on January 23, 2012, 10:05:39 AM
I admit that - despite one of my chars being a general - I have no real clue what to be doing aside from the usual military effort. I especially did not know about Piwani until now (not showen blighted on either the political of dynamic map until I did a refresh just now....nearly fell of my seat...sigh)

Coordinating military takes quite a bit of time - thus I admit not having invested a large ammount into searching for clues. However, I /did/ coordinate quite a few adventurers, tried to poke them towards searching for portalstones and books, I had access to quite a bit of information, was party to quite a few discussions...but all in all I have no idea about the mechanics behind anything regarding daimons (especially recruitment and 'economic' powerbase). And I suspect that the situation is the same for the majority of generals. My one remaining theory is that once a daimon region is not connected to any human region anymore it becomes blighted. (with the exception of the use of portalstones which /somehow/ have a different but probably always bad influence). Note that despite obvious clues about teleportation scrolls no adventurer know to me has managed to receive one (I assume they can be made by sages). I have one increasingly unlikely theory that blight can be reversed by using a scroll of teleport /into/ the blight and then doing something there...or at least that /something/ can be achieved that way. But thats largely it....

I know that there are tons of clues around -  I suspect that Tom (who is looking at Beluaterra from /within/ the framework ofrules) is near dismayed by our inability to read the clues correctly. However, for one who is looking at the situation from without this framework many clues cannot carry the information that is only imparted if you connect them to the underlying theoretic framework. I also know that 'at least one person' has figured the system (largely?) out - but considering that most realms seem to be honestly and actively coordinating and since I have not heard from it either this person does not believe in his theory or he is actively hiding his findings...which I find hard to believe.

So I suspect that this invasions 'groundrules' will likely stay hidden despite Toms best efforts to reveal them. I am facinated by the flow of information, how it is perceived and what we distill out of it. I assume there is a fundamental difference in how the availiable set of information is perceived by its designers - and outsiders...and that this results in our 'inability' to read it correctly.

Note that I consider this invasion to be of excellent design quality. Many players seem to have a lot of fun - and this desperate struggle sure is epic. I would so very much love to be able to see Beluaterra saved...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: De-Legro on January 23, 2012, 10:42:04 AM
The way region become blighted was discovered in the last invasion. Has it changed?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on January 23, 2012, 10:45:32 AM
I know that there are tons of clues around -  I suspect that Tom (who is looking at Beluaterra from /within/ the framework ofrules) is near dismayed by our inability to read the clues correctly.

No, I'm more amused. :)

What I find a bit disorienting is that too many people are searching for some kind of "deus ex machina" - something that will solve all their problems. Sorry, no easy way out this time. There's things you can find out, but there is no "make all the evil go away" button.


However, for one who is looking at the situation from without this framework many clues cannot carry the information that is only imparted if you connect them to the underlying theoretic framework. I also know that 'at least one person' has figured the system (largely?) out - but considering that most realms seem to be honestly and actively coordinating and since I have not heard from it either this person does not believe in his theory or he is actively hiding his findings...which I find hard to believe.

I am surprised that despite cooperation all around, a lot of information is either not moving around or moving around very slowly. Some people knew almost immediately about all of the regions blighted this far, but I know that others only found out a day or two later. I know that you all are trying to track the Daimon leaders, and I am making it really easy - lots of looting, which always generates a message to the region lords and knights, for example - and still you constantly lose track of some or all. I know that at least one person in the game still thinks that Darkest Hour of the North is in prison. He's been out for days. If anyone is surprised by this information - there's a piece of evidence right there that despite all the efforts, information sharing doesn't work nearly as well as you think.

It's ok - I was expecting most of this, though I am a bit surprised at the extent. It seems I don't need to think about stuff like delayed messages or such, players already do a great job at delaying and losing information. :-)



So I suspect that this invasions 'groundrules' will likely stay hidden despite Toms best efforts to reveal them. I am facinated by the flow of information, how it is perceived and what we distill out of it. I assume there is a fundamental difference in how the availiable set of information is perceived by its designers - and outsiders...and that this results in our 'inability' to read it correctly.

Note that I consider this invasion to be of excellent design quality. Many players seem to have a lot of fun - and this desperate struggle sure is epic. I would so very much love to be able to see Beluaterra saved...

Then work harder. I am fully prepared to sink it, and quite honestly, right now it looks really, really bad for the entire south. Since I can move through the blight, I can now choose my enemies, and instead of 9 realms, I can now fight either 3 or 6. Massive strategic victory for me, even in the (for you) best case, you can only give me 2/3rd the opposition now.


The "ground rules" are not so secret as you think, if you stop thinking in terms of "there is this one clue we must find and everything will come apart". Many of the rules have already been correctly found - like the succession of Nightfall - Midnight - etc. - this may not seem like huge news if you think in terms of "button to fix it all", but if you think of information as ammunition, it is a rather big bomb, as it tells you a lot if you think about it a tiny bit. The most obvious piece of info it contains is that they are not immortal, for example.

I also think there are many rules that you don't talk about, but have correctly guessed anyways. For example, that the Nightfalls, Midnights, etc. don't talk. Early on there were some communication attempts, but there haven't been any for weeks now. Anyone who wants to talk to the Daimons these days go through Overlord or his sons. Again, not a "click here to save humanity" clue, but still information, still a piece of "ground rules".

Many people by now have a good idea of what the conditions for losing regions, i.e. the Blight expanding, are.


So it's not like everyone would be totally clueless. There's a lot of knowledge around. Some of it isn't being shared much, and then there is quite a bit of misinformation as well. But I will continue to reveal clues, both through actions and through words. Really too bad that too many players have decided to simply disregard everything Overlord or his sons say as lies, lies and more lies instead of reading it and checking if there's anything interesting being said, because there is. But yes, of course most of it is said very intentionally to mislead you, or just to gloat, have some fun and make you SOOOO much want to kill that evil bastard. :-D

And I can't believe 1st Son could get out of prison by paying his ransom today. I was so sure he'd be banned or executed this time. I can't believe that all three sons are still alive. When I launched the invasion, and you had asked me how many sons had been killed by the end of January, I'd have guessed at least two, probably all three. I mean, that guy is personally responsible for the blighting of Villriil, and you don't have standing orders in all realms to arrest him on sight? I'm totally flabbergasted. Ok, that just had to get out. I feel better now. :-)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Indirik on January 23, 2012, 12:29:28 PM
I know that at least one person in the game still thinks that Darkest Hour of the North is in prison. He's been out for days.
Huh... When his 120+ daimon unit disappeared from Firbalt, I figured standard game mechanics meant he was dead. Unless he returned to his unit, disbanded them, and then walked away unnoticed.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: songqu88@gmail.com on January 23, 2012, 12:49:24 PM
Okay, so ICly I plan to have my character fully ignorant to all this hoo hah on BT. Thusfar he's kept his head down and hunted little monsters and zombies, having never even seen a daimon before. I intend to keep it this way all the way until the 5th Inv ends, in which case Larry scratches his head and goes "Huh? What happen?"

But OOCly I got no qualms about going on about crazy !@#$ I think of randomly. Apparently the one after Midnight is Darkest Hour. Huh, well, I guess Breaking Dawn was...incorrect...lol. But close enough. I'd say keep up the...good work(?) and try to kill as many of those as you can. At some point the "darkness of the cardinal directions" will exhaust and that will...do something about the darkness in that cardinal direction or something. Possibly after Darkest Hour there is no more from that cardinal direction, thus reducing significantly the daimons' forces.

Kill the Sons. Goddamn like seriously. Kill those stupid priests. How hard is it anyway? Sure they have that rumored time drain, but Tom can't stay logged in forever. Or maybe he can, but no matter how active, if a single player gets outnumbered, then much like in real life, no matter how good, he's still toast. Metagaming? Nah, it's a legit countermeasure to a rumored ability the character has. Surround and blindside has always been a sound strategy when you have numbers against an individually superior foe.

In short, I think it'll really boil down to whether you can narrow the field to where Overlord must stand alone. A general without an army, anyone? Sure he'll still have some daimons, but even then, it's ONE single unit of daimons. Furthermore, there's probably no such "cheat mode" where Overlord can summon infinite daimons. And it'll probably be really damn hard to get Overlord alone. Heck, I reckon we'll more likely lose before we even get to Darkest Hour of the last cardinal direction. But whatever, keep running forward screaming like a monkey swinging the arms. It works for Ash Ketchum and look what he's achieved: Top 16 Kanto, Orange League champion, Top 8 Johto, Top 8 Hoeen, Kanto Frontier Brain, Top 4 Sinnoh.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Calanar on January 23, 2012, 12:57:37 PM
And I can't believe 1st Son could get out of prison by paying his ransom today. I was so sure he'd be banned or executed this time. I can't believe that all three sons are still alive. When I launched the invasion, and you had asked me how many sons had been killed by the end of January, I'd have guessed at least two, probably all three. I mean, that guy is personally responsible for the blighting of Villriil, and you don't have standing orders in all realms to arrest him on sight? I'm totally flabbergasted. Ok, that just had to get out. I feel better now. :-)

Actually, there's a story to that one, at least in Melhed. When they first showed up, we tried to arrest 3rd Son at least a dozen times, and it kept coming up with him as wounded/non-arrestable.

As to the lesser Daimons, I kinda figured after Darkest Hour we'd probably get False Dawn and then that'd be the end of them.

Also, I know I've repeatedly asked rulers for any information regarding the Daimons, so we can work this out, and they all just shrug it off and ignore it.

As to how we can Blight a region, I don't think anyone is really sure after the portal stone incident, because originally they sealed portals.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on January 23, 2012, 02:04:04 PM
And I can't believe 1st Son could get out of prison by paying his ransom today. I was so sure he'd be banned or executed this time. I can't believe that all three sons are still alive. When I launched the invasion, and you had asked me how many sons had been killed by the end of January, I'd have guessed at least two, probably all three. I mean, that guy is personally responsible for the blighting of Villriil, and you don't have standing orders in all realms to arrest him on sight? I'm totally flabbergasted. Ok, that just had to get out. I feel better now. :-)

You can usually buy your way out of prison the same turn that you can get banned as far as I know. (or else I've been in plenty of prisons with very lazy judges)
And... can you even ban a priest after you've arrested him? Doesn't he need to commit a crime or something? No execution without a ban anyway.
Or are there different rules for the daimon priests?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: songqu88@gmail.com on January 23, 2012, 02:20:07 PM
Er...last I checked "daimon worshippers" can be executed immediately. It happened back in 4th, remember?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on January 23, 2012, 04:11:22 PM
Sure they have that rumored time drain, but Tom can't stay logged in forever.

It's got nothing to do with logging in. That thing is available to players in the form of magic scrolls. It's just not very common knowledge because scrolls are so rare that few people know much about which scrolls even exist.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on January 23, 2012, 04:14:32 PM
Actually, there's a story to that one, at least in Melhed. When they first showed up, we tried to arrest 3rd Son at least a dozen times, and it kept coming up with him as wounded/non-arrestable.

Yes, that's just normal priest code. When I get wounded preaching, you can not arrest me. I gain hours very, very slowly, but once I'm back to lightly wounded, I can preach again. Possibly being wounded again. As long as I can stay wounded, I'm safe from arrest.

Yes, I think that particular code should be changed. I think priests should be safe from arrest if wounded until they do something. But we don't currently have a good flag to store that info.

But it's not a Daimon special. In fact, the sons aren't even Daimon characters or anything, they are regular Priest characters. With one except anything they do, a normal priest could do as well.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Zakilevo on January 24, 2012, 01:24:05 AM
God the generals are so quiet right now. Only insults between Tom and Selis are flying at the moment. Sassan was doing a great job keep people busy. I am too lazy to organize people to do something.

P.S Thanks for kicking me out of the church Tom.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Telrunya on January 24, 2012, 02:10:45 AM
Tomorrow the Generals will be chatty again ;D
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Archbane on January 24, 2012, 10:39:11 AM
Playing with the food system in the midst of an invasion threatening to engulf Beluterra.

Starvation   (4 hours, 19 minutes ago)
personal message
There is starvation in Reeds, and your men can't find anything to eat. 5 men fall ill from lack of food.

Duchy Report for Reeds   (4 hours, 16 minutes ago)
message to the duke and nobles of Reeds

Reeds

Due to the ongoing starvation, all commercial activities have ceased. Production is effectively at zero. Morale drops through the floor and loyalty to your realm is non-existent. If there hasn't been a rebellion yet, it is only because the people are too hungry. 1083 peasants have starved to death today.


This kind of situations would be bad enough, on a normal day, now add a few roving daimon hordes a few days march away. And if I'm not wrong, we warriors ain't half-immortals no more. Looks like we're all pretty !@#$ed, especially when I don't think daimons will get ill when they are not feeding, even if they did, there's nothing like another two hundred more daimons magically appearing during the witching hour.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on January 24, 2012, 10:57:31 AM
God the generals are so quiet right now. Only insults between Tom and Selis are flying at the moment.

Ever thought that Overlord doesn't get chatty by accident? I've dropped five metric tons of clues that the guy is living and breathing military strategy. :)



Playing with the food system in the midst of an invasion threatening to engulf Beluterra.

Are you kidding me? Cities have been made smaller with less food requirements. The only reason they hadn't been starving for days is that the food consumption part was broken for a few days. With the old system, Reeds would be very much down the drain by now. The new system will in general be much nicer on you, with people moving out of the starving region, and so on.


there's nothing like another two hundred more daimons magically appearing during the witching hour.

No such thing happened. I get really angry when people mix facts with fiction and turn it into thinly veiled accusations. On bad days, I call that whining. Please don't do it. If you have something to say, say it nicely, with the facts clearly stated and the fiction left out.

Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on January 24, 2012, 10:59:47 AM
And, to add some facts, according to the database, Reeds hasn't been properly fed for about two weeks. If you want to complain, first show me that that is an error.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: fodder on January 24, 2012, 12:36:01 PM
um.. i think food is now consumed but not produced...

not certain about the consumed bit.. but fairly sure about the not produced bit. incidentally.. when the harvest works.. is it going to give food grown during the last harvest period (not counting the bit when clock stopped) or is it just going to give 1 day?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: De-Legro on January 24, 2012, 01:17:30 PM
um.. i think food is now consumed but not produced...

not certain about the consumed bit.. but fairly sure about the not produced bit. incidentally.. when the harvest works.. is it going to give food grown during the last harvest period (not counting the bit when clock stopped) or is it just going to give 1 day?

What island did you think food wasn't produced on? There was a turn problem with Dwilight that might have stopped the harvests.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Naidraug on January 24, 2012, 01:36:56 PM
And, to add some facts, according to the database, Reeds hasn't been properly fed for about two weeks. If you want to complain, first show me that that is an error.

We just changed  bankers, now I'm getting a used to the banker system, hopefully the lords will follow my requests and send the food out.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: fodder on January 24, 2012, 02:48:05 PM
What island did you think food wasn't produced on? There was a turn problem with Dwilight that might have stopped the harvests.
ok... a further look and i think i figured out what happened.

harvest screen stuck at "harvest in 4 days" for dwi and "harvest tomorrow" for bt. though obviously it's no longer relevant in the new system.

food is being consumed and produced in bt (and thus presumably dwi too)... 19 bushels consumed for avengmil (which is what the warehouse now says) - was 30 and now 11.

"problem" is this... we are thus missing just about 1 full harvest from before the change that was never harvested. avengmil was a surplus region and now a deficit region.

so.. maybe every deficit region shall starve a day or two whilst new arrangements are sorted out and caravan lags are worked through.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Naidraug on January 24, 2012, 03:27:36 PM
So now with the new updated pages, my warehouses that were full (with the exception of Reeds) are now completely empty in EVERY region!
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: songqu88@gmail.com on January 25, 2012, 07:49:24 PM
lolol, for we hardcore humans, we don't care about food. We'll beat the !@#$ (or whatever comes out of daimon !@#$%^&s) out of the invaders even if we don't have enough food.

BWAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: fodder on January 28, 2012, 11:58:38 AM
overlord got captured XD

and there's now a 4th son?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on January 28, 2012, 11:59:53 AM
Soon they'll all be orphans!
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: songqu88@gmail.com on January 28, 2012, 12:10:03 PM
Execute Overlord!!!!!!!!!!!!! DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: fodder on January 28, 2012, 12:48:03 PM
go wake vellos up then
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Telrunya on January 28, 2012, 12:52:26 PM
If the Nightfalls have several lives, the Overlord probably has too. I'm amazed they really had such small units though.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Draco Tanos on January 28, 2012, 01:12:38 PM
I'm waiting for Underlord to spawn.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lefanis on January 28, 2012, 01:57:51 PM
Maybe when he falls the Blight is removed and invasion ends ;D
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: songqu88@gmail.com on January 28, 2012, 02:06:21 PM
I'm pretty sure the Blight has Ontological Inertia. Just because you kill a daimon that commanded the latest batch of daimons doesn't mean he was the one who was the source of all the Blight. In fact, it's even more likely that Overlord isn't really that big a deal. Even if he is one of the "elders", he's only one of them. And he certainly isn't as big as whatever is the source of the Blight.

Unless, of course, Tom decides to do that, since it has always really been manually controlled or something anyway.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Thunthorn on January 28, 2012, 08:03:29 PM
It wasn't even Daimons that created the blight to begin with. At the beginning it was populated by monsters and undead. Then it got quiet supposedly because there was a Daimon - Undead war that left Daimons in control of the place. My guess is that even if we manage to banish all Daimons we'll still have the blight to deal with.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: fodder on January 28, 2012, 08:08:24 PM
i guess he's escaped then? there's another battle with overlord in it in the next turn...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Zakilevo on January 28, 2012, 08:09:31 PM
That would be terrible. The north and south are already cut offed. If the land remains blighted, how the hell are we suppose to travel to the north from the south or vice versa.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on January 28, 2012, 08:48:24 PM
i guess he's escaped then?

Much more interesting than that. ;)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on January 28, 2012, 10:50:23 PM
I bet there's two Overlords!

I hope Vellos knows and will tell us already. :(
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Vellos on January 28, 2012, 11:02:08 PM
I... am extremely confused. But the reasons why will be explained soon enough ICly, so I'll wait for that to happen.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: fodder on January 28, 2012, 11:24:55 PM
XD he lets him loose? (wag... who knows.. messaging is a bit iffy)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on January 31, 2012, 01:01:41 AM
But the invasion so far is an extremely interesting social experiment. I think next time I'll call in a few psychology and sociology students and let them map out the flow of information amongs players. It is utterly fascinating. Can't say more without giving things away, unfortunately. Well, maybe one thing: Lots of people are wondering what the heck just happened in Villriil, even though some players know exactly what happened.

To reply a bit (a lot) late, I just want to pitch in:

Many don't understand what was shared with them, and many of these don't bother to ask questions to those who might have a clue. I'm sure many people who come to the forum saying how they don't have a clue what's going on could have easily gained much information by simply asking via IC channels. Heck, some don't even read all that is shared with them...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Calanar on January 31, 2012, 01:09:15 AM
Except some of us do ask and get no responses in return. So it's not like we aren't trying...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on January 31, 2012, 01:28:49 AM
Except some of us do ask and get no responses in return. So it's not like we aren't trying...

Then you may be asking the wrong people.

Personally, I never answered to you because the only things I know are what other rulers shared publicly. Daimons have rarely been around our parts, and when they have they were mostly moving through, but we always had rogues and random stuff prop us to keep us busy. And since we are so small, we don't really have an army of advies to organize. The main reason why were weren't very involved, however, is that communication is atrocious. Allied demands come in late, or contradictory, or rely too much on a single axis of communication. Most of the comes from Riombara, Enweil barely sends anything even if they are the ones targeted. And since I'm no longer studying, I have very limited opportunities to try to go fetch the information myself. I make sure to relay everything I get to the rest of my realm, but I see no reason to go beg far-off realms for info (my character's too proud for it anyways). And besides, I have an empire to build!

However, I must say that I have *never* seen the game so buggy as it has been this last month or so. It is often outright unplayable. Everything seems broken. Messages were screwed up for multiple days, food is all whacky and being replaced by a system that most people don't understand, and estates are still half-baked. Everything seems broken about it. Taxes still don't come in gold when in duchy, some still can't pick up estates, founders of new religions don't lose their regions, lords can't step down from their regions, nobles still show as knights of other realms, takeovers not working or half-working at best, etc., etc. The game feels like a mess right now. And I suspect that many others are like me: if the game can't let you play or do something specific when you log on, then odds are you won't be able to do it that turn even if it gets fixed. Fixes seem to lag seriously behind, though.

While I appreciate all the hard work and good intentions going into the changes, I feel like I'm figthing the game more than an invasion right now. And even if we had 100 000 CS of daimons in all of our regions, I'd probably feel the same. Every day, we are facing bugs, and having to either wait (forever) hoping it gets fixed, or try to find alternatives.

This drains a lot of time that would otherwise go to RP and information seeking and sharing.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: DoctorHarte on January 31, 2012, 09:42:57 AM
So what happens to the nobles down south if every region is blighted?  ??? we'd just pop outta existence?  :o
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on January 31, 2012, 09:53:13 AM
So what happens to the nobles down south if every region is blighted?  ??? we'd just pop outta existence?  :o

Do you really want to find out?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: songqu88@gmail.com on January 31, 2012, 12:51:11 PM
YES!

They become part of the Soulforge or something...Hey, didn't people read that book? What happened to those people who were there when the Blight moved in? Nobles are still people too you know.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Telrunya on January 31, 2012, 01:31:04 PM
Awfully unexciting ;) Technically, could have taken up an Estate in Villrill after it was blighted. For the rest, you can't do anything but travel. The pages just say to get out as fast as you can. Didn't seem to be anything there, though didn't try moving to a different blighted region :P At least my character is not Soulforge Armour right now!
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Draco Tanos on January 31, 2012, 01:40:29 PM
I want to capture Overlord, strip the armor, and wear it myself.  >.>

Nothing like a priest armoring himself with human souls.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on February 01, 2012, 02:07:47 AM
To be fair, overall I think the invasion's pretty decent. Not as enthralling as the third invasion (before it dragged on forever), but that may just be because 1) the third invasion was my first and 2) I had a lot more time to put into involving myself in that one.

Overall, it's pretty good. We got tricked, got some victories, defeats. Feels hard, but not hopeless (like with real 100 000+ CS hordes) or frustrating (like constant late-turn moves and abuse of teleportation abilities).

My biggest gripe is with the current state of the game, and not the invasion. Invasion's fine. Hell, not even my spell checker's working with the new message box...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on February 02, 2012, 06:45:57 AM
You're just can't be happy, can you?  ;)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: DoctorHarte on February 02, 2012, 10:42:03 AM
You're just can't be happy, can you?  ;)

The loss of my spell check hit me pretty hard, too
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on February 02, 2012, 11:19:35 AM
The loss of my spell check hit me pretty hard, too

Well, it should work. If still not, every help is appreciated. We are using ckeditor - a very common editor. That's not a problem we alone can have.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Draco Tanos on February 02, 2012, 12:46:59 PM
My browser highlights the words, but generally you need to right click on them to change it...  And it only shows a paste option.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: De-Legro on February 02, 2012, 12:53:53 PM
My browser highlights the words, but generally you need to right click on them to change it...  And it only shows a paste option.

For Chrome hold down "Ctrl" and right click, hey presto. Not sure if this works for firefox.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Draco Tanos on February 02, 2012, 12:55:07 PM
Which is nice to know, but should we really have to come hunting on the forums to find such information?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: De-Legro on February 02, 2012, 12:57:25 PM
Which is nice to know, but should we really have to come hunting on the forums to find such information?

eh I googled it. The answer to so many of life's little problems.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on February 05, 2012, 05:50:34 AM
Well, it should work. If still not, every help is appreciated. We are using ckeditor - a very common editor. That's not a problem we alone can have.

I haven't tried the ctrl solution yet, I'll see if it works.

However, I have noticed that I can't paste stuff directly in the box, it instead opens a "paste box" in which I must paste things in first. Rather annoying, though minor.

You're just can't be happy, can you?  ;)

I don't mean to be negative, but I've never had such a hard time playing this game. Being blocked by a tonload of bugs + having to read up to understand major new changes takes away from the time that would otherwise be allotted to IG actions and RP.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Zakilevo on February 05, 2012, 06:30:38 AM
ctrl + v works like a charm. But the paste box is annoying no doubt.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on February 05, 2012, 10:37:09 AM
I don't mean to be negative, but I've never had such a hard time playing this game. Being blocked by a tonload of bugs + having to read up to understand major new changes takes away from the time that would otherwise be allotted to IG actions and RP.

Whining on the forum doesn't exactly add to the time available, you know? ;)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on February 05, 2012, 04:30:43 PM
Whining on the forum doesn't exactly add to the time available, you know? ;)

I know, but I haven't spent much time on the forums lately.

It also takes a lot less motivation than to try to do stuff in a continent that has seen significantly higher activity levels in its days, unfortunately.

Is there anyone here who are at their first invasion?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Darksun on February 06, 2012, 02:27:14 PM
Is there anyone here who are at their first invasion?

If you mean to ask if this is the first invasion for one of my characters then yes.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on February 07, 2012, 01:44:02 AM
If you mean to ask if this is the first invasion for one of my characters then yes.

What's your take on the invasion?

The third invasion was much more magical to me than this invasion, but I strongly suspect that's mostly just because it was my first.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Indirik on February 07, 2012, 03:22:12 AM
Up in Sint, I'm having a really hard time trying to see anything happening. We had a couple daimon armies attack our capital, but other than that nothing really seems to be happening. There's really no information sharing at all. I know that Overlord gave Sint an ultimatum, but it was not shared with the realm at all. I've tried to track down some of these information sharing guilds, and I've joined Hemaism. But there's really very little that actually seems to be happening or being shared.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on February 07, 2012, 03:26:52 AM
Up in Sint, I'm having a really hard time trying to see anything happening. We had a couple daimon armies attack our capital, but other than that nothing really seems to be happening. There's really no information sharing at all. I know that Overlord gave Sint an ultimatum, but it was not shared with the realm at all. I've tried to track down some of these information sharing guilds, and I've joined Hemaism. But there's really very little that actually seems to be happening or being shared.

I share everything I get with my realm (except for the letters I send, mostly out of laziness), but there's very little realm-wide chatter and I don't feel like I'm getting all that much information either. I have a few private conversations that I don't share, but very, very few are not shared in Fheuv'n.

I'm not sure there is such a guild this invasion... And reaching one in the North from the South, and vice versa, would prove a rather difficult task.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on February 07, 2012, 03:47:30 AM
Up in Sint, I'm having a really hard time trying to see anything happening. We had a couple daimon armies attack our capital, but other than that nothing really seems to be happening. There's really no information sharing at all. I know that Overlord gave Sint an ultimatum, but it was not shared with the realm at all. I've tried to track down some of these information sharing guilds, and I've joined Hemaism. But there's really very little that actually seems to be happening or being shared.

Having lived through the Fourth in two different realms as well as this one, I can say that your experience is not only normal but probably typical for the vast majority of players on BT. The problem, I think, is that sharing information is a *lot* of work. You can never be certain what is significant and what is not, which means you generally have to err on the side of oversharing if you want to be serious about it. And then there is the question of who do you share it with? To be thorough, you should share in as many places as you can. So, your entire realm for starters, then any guilds you might be in, and then (if you're a councilor) with your fellows in other realms. It all adds up to a huge amount of copying and pasting from day to day, and frankly I don't have that much time to put into this lightweight game. My ruler character shares many of the the messages he receives from Overlord with his realm, but even then he filters out the messages that are simply taunts with no information in them that he deems to be relevant.

I share Chenier's feeling that I'm not getting very much information, and what I do have doesn't appear to amount to anything significant. We've put together some of the obvious pieces that are deducible from observable events, but everyone has done that by now. For instance we all know how the Blight spreads (or think we do, though I have yet to see anything to disprove the going theory).
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on February 07, 2012, 04:23:27 AM
I share Chenier's feeling that I'm not getting very much information, and what I do have doesn't appear to amount to anything significant. We've put together some of the obvious pieces that are deducible from observable events, but everyone has done that by now. For instance we all know how the Blight spreads (or think we do, though I have yet to see anything to disprove the going theory).

If it's something more than daimon TOs, then you know something more than I do.

And indeed, a lot of the stuff I get and share doesn't feel that important.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Sypher on February 07, 2012, 04:58:04 AM
What my character has gotten has been shared but its mostly mundane stuff like battle reports. As a Judge I'm spared directly receiving the taunts and mocking of Overlord. Though they are somewhat funny to read at times. I got a couple of letters from 3rd son back in the beginning of the invasion but haven't spotted any Daimon priests in the same region as me since then.




Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Zakilevo on February 07, 2012, 05:07:01 AM
Just love reading how Overlord is trying to show how much of a boss he is but he is a coward. He throws his son to a dungeon so he can escape. What a pussy cat  8)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on February 07, 2012, 10:14:54 AM
I'm quite enjoying Overlord, but I'm a bit unhappy with the reactions he's getting from some. I mean, someone mocking him in a childish way for not accepting a duel? As the judge, I would have fined that noble for such a display of non-noble behaviour, and in front of the enemy no less!

It feels kind of sorry that too few people really roleplay their interactions. I mean, here you have 3-4 m tall, winged daemonic creatures - and you act like a five-year old in a kindergarden playground. I'd have expected more heroism, people walking head high into certain death for the glory of their king - stuff like that.

Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Sypher on February 07, 2012, 11:00:17 AM
Haha. Well, killing anyone foolish enough to challenge Overlord to a duel would also discourage that sort of thing. People did similar stuff in the previous invasions from what I recall.

Not sure if anyone read them, but I have been trying to roleplay my character's combats with the daimons. The various daimon troopleaders seem like the silent types though.

As for improving the invasion, I'd enjoy having more information on the daimons. For example, what do the Daimon priests look like? or Overlord or the various troopleaders? Would be nice to have something more for the wiki at least.


PS: Did 1st Son just use magic to heal Darkest Hour of the North?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on February 07, 2012, 12:21:11 PM
Haha. Well, killing anyone foolish enough to challenge Overlord to a duel would also discourage that sort of thing. People did similar stuff in the previous invasions from what I recall.

Yes, but that is exactly what I do not want to do. It would be 3 seconds before these same people would vomit all over the forum whining that their character was killed in an unfair death duel...


Not sure if anyone read them, but I have been trying to roleplay my character's combats with the daimons. The various daimon troopleaders seem like the silent types though.

They are. Intentionally.

Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on February 07, 2012, 02:34:04 PM
They are. Intentionally.

No reason you can't RP with them though, describing what they look like and what they are doing in response to someone else's RP.

I'll keep your comments in mind though. Perhaps I will be inspired to write some sort of disgustingly noble RP about heroism and duty  the next time Evander is in the line of fire 8)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Anaris on February 07, 2012, 02:55:30 PM
I'm quite enjoying Overlord, but I'm a bit unhappy with the reactions he's getting from some. I mean, someone mocking him in a childish way for not accepting a duel? As the judge, I would have fined that noble for such a display of non-noble behaviour, and in front of the enemy no less!

It feels kind of sorry that too few people really roleplay their interactions. I mean, here you have 3-4 m tall, winged daemonic creatures - and you act like a five-year old in a kindergarden playground. I'd have expected more heroism, people walking head high into certain death for the glory of their king - stuff like that.

I dunno, that sounds like pretty much how a lot of people play their characters all the time.

This includes some rulers, longtime players, and self-proclaimed gurus of roleplay.

It can be quite depressing and off-putting at times.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on February 07, 2012, 08:48:54 PM
No reason you can't RP with them though, describing what they look like and what they are doing in response to someone else's RP.

I did that in the beginning, but the few reactions I received were simply not worth the continued investment of time.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Marlboro on February 07, 2012, 09:20:28 PM
I'm sure the taunts are just false bravado, and everyone breathes a sigh of relief when their duel challenge goes unanswered. I admit I'm guilty of throwing out some challenges early on (To wound, not to death- not that stupid), but I'm still sort of a noob and assumed the leader-types were mostly humanoid, since "his" sons seem to be normal humans. Done a little more research since then and realized it looks kinda stupid, so I apologize.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chaotrance13 on February 07, 2012, 09:25:12 PM
I did that in the beginning, but the few reactions I received were simply not worth the continued investment of time.

Might need the right kind of person. I mean after the recent battle against the daimons in Marpii, Malos yelled that the daimons were "Light-forsaken abominations" and he wished for the Divine to purge them. If I suddenly got a message from Darkest Hour of the North saying that such belief was in a false god, he'd engage in something no doubt. Nothing like trying to insult a former preacher about his faith?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Naidraug on February 07, 2012, 09:27:30 PM
And now that Darkest hour was wounded, Overlord will come for Nothoi...

This will be fun!
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Telrunya on February 07, 2012, 09:48:29 PM
Overlord is going for Nothoi? And here I am trying to get a scout report of Fengen :P Let's hope he does. You people in the North are having it way too easy. We Southerners can use a diversion!
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on February 07, 2012, 11:58:35 PM
As for improving the invasion, I'd enjoy having more information on the daimons. For example, what do the Daimon priests look like?

Human-like, I think. If I remember correctly. That's one of the first things I asked First Son when I met him. I might have it saved up somewhere.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on February 08, 2012, 12:00:05 AM
I did that in the beginning, but the few reactions I received were simply not worth the continued investment of time.

That you don't get a reply doesn't mean that it wasn't appreciated. These RPs hopefully get shared with others, which helps build up an ambiance. Hopefully more prone to get shared than Overlord's taunts.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Calanar on February 08, 2012, 12:08:32 AM
I remember Soren was in the heart of the Daimon invasion and destruction of Heen in 4th invasion. He's also a bit touched in the head at this point. I don't think the Daimons scare him so much anymore. I'd love to keep RPing some stuff with the Daimons, but 1st Son just sort of laughed at him last time (not that I blame him).

Though really, despite the hints Tom says we know, I don't think anyone realizes that they're hints because no one has put anything together thus far...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Zakilevo on February 08, 2012, 12:13:35 AM
Overlord is going for Nothoi? And here I am trying to get a scout report of Fengen :P Let's hope he does. You people in the North are having it way too easy. We Southerners can use a diversion!

Cannot agree more. Northerners need to learn the same degree of devastation Southerns are dealing with every day.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on February 08, 2012, 12:15:53 AM
I've noticed that the more Netherworld armies get their ass kicked, the more Overlord gloats of different battles in which they were victorious.

He drops stuff subtly that seem like they could be of importance, hence why I share the taunts to the realm, but I can't think of any way to use it to good use, so I forget it. Perhaps I'd realize something if I re-read it all at the same time, not sure.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: De-Legro on February 08, 2012, 12:22:02 AM
I remember Soren was in the heart of the Daimon invasion and destruction of Heen in 4th invasion. He's also a bit touched in the head at this point. I don't think the Daimons scare him so much anymore. I'd love to keep RPing some stuff with the Daimons, but 1st Son just sort of laughed at him last time (not that I blame him).

Though really, despite the hints Tom says we know, I don't think anyone realizes that they're hints because no one has put anything together thus far...

From my reading, Tom KNOWS that certain characters have put it all together, not just that they have all the pieces. The fact they aren't acting or aren't sharing it doesn't mean they haven't worked it out.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on February 08, 2012, 12:29:38 AM
Perhaps I'm missing something, but the only conclusions' I got to were: 1) pray the advies find more scrolls and 2) send our armies at the daimons to try to kill/capture as many of them as possible.

For example, Overlord said that we should all understand how the blight works by now. However, as a ruler, I've seen most of the messages going around, and I have no clue how the blight works, other than the obvious that takeovers usually allow them. Portal stones can blight a region, but they aren't needed to blight a region, so I'm not sure if they have another use than that.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Zakilevo on February 08, 2012, 12:34:27 AM
Someone from Enweil just said why did Overlord want other realms to destroy Enweil. There might be a possibility he can't do it himself?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on February 08, 2012, 12:36:39 AM
Someone from Enweil just said why did Overlord want other realms to destroy Enweil. There might be a possibility he can't do it himself?

Nothoi will be able to show us this.

Vassalizing Enweil was in my long-term plans anyways, I just lacked the time to lay the proper groundworks for it. Now, the daimons just make the task so much easier. I'm not gonna let an invasion stand in the way of my god-given mission, am I? I am the messiah, after all!
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Zakilevo on February 08, 2012, 01:51:11 AM
Many people are actually considering to join Riombara instead of IVF. Riombara wants Enweilieos just as bad  8)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on February 08, 2012, 01:55:16 AM
Human-like, I think. If I remember correctly. That's one of the first things I asked First Son when I met him. I might have it saved up somewhere.

The sons look human, but aren't.

The other daimon worship priests (yes, most of you haven't seen them yet) are humans.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on February 08, 2012, 01:58:19 AM
Many people are actually considering to join Riombara instead of IVF. Riombara wants Enweilieos just as bad  8)

I have no doubt Riombara wants Enweilieos just as bad. But Guillaume stated it clearly not that long ago: 1) it will not be tolerated that a non-Enweili realm gets Enweilieos and 2) Fheuv'n will go to war against anyone who takes up Overlord's offer.

I'd have a hard time seeing Enweil as a whole join Riombara, but if they do, then it's war.

Which I guess would simplify a whole lot of things.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Sypher on February 08, 2012, 02:36:44 AM
For example, Overlord said that we should all understand how the blight works by now. However, as a ruler, I've seen most of the messages going around, and I have no clue how the blight works, other than the obvious that takeovers usually allow them. Portal stones can blight a region, but they aren't needed to blight a region, so I'm not sure if they have another use than that.

My understanding is that the blight (edit:automatically) spreads when a region no longer connects to any human-realm. So, now that Fengen is part of the Netherworld, Ulallo is blighted.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Zakilevo on February 08, 2012, 03:19:47 AM
Not true. Villriil got blighted even though we had Ulallo. It is also beside Riombara's city.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Sypher on February 08, 2012, 03:36:01 AM
Villrill is a special case. It got blighted because of player actions. Specifically, someone used some portal stones and possibly a scroll?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Indirik on February 08, 2012, 04:39:55 AM
The other daimon worship priests (yes, most of you haven't seen them yet) are humans.
In fact, they're so human, that some people can't tell the difference between a priest of daimon worship, and a priest of Hemaism. :P

(Wait... is there really a difference? I haven't been able to find one yet.  ??? )
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Telrunya on February 08, 2012, 01:26:01 PM
Quote
That you don't get a reply doesn't mean that it wasn't appreciated. These RPs hopefully get shared with others, which helps build up an ambiance. Hopefully more prone to get shared than Overlord's taunts

I must second this. I very much enjoy reading RP's, but I have to spend a lot of time writing them, so don't always get that done. But I still read and enjoy them.

Quote
I have no doubt Riombara wants Enweilieos just as bad. But Guillaume stated it clearly not that long ago: 1) it will not be tolerated that a non-Enweili realm gets Enweilieos and 2) Fheuv'n will go to war against anyone who takes up Overlord's offer.

Heh. Good luck with that one ;) Can you even reach Riombara and Enweilieos with all the Daimons in the way? :P
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Velax on February 08, 2012, 05:48:17 PM
I did that in the beginning, but the few reactions I received were simply not worth the continued investment of time.

Yeah, I'd agree with what others have said - you don't have to reply to an RP to have found it enjoyable or have it influence you in some way.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on February 09, 2012, 02:03:00 PM
Heh. Good luck with that one ;) Can you even reach Riombara and Enweilieos with all the Daimons in the way? :P

It would be in the daimons' best interests to let us kill each other. If they do stand in the way, then no, I can't reach Riombara. Is Riombara willing to take the risk of the Netherworld blocking our forces instead of clearing the way for them?

For Guillaume, it's a no-lose situation: either the daimons block him, and he gets to fight them, or either they leave him be while he fights Riombara, and has greater time of respite. He enjoys killing daimons, but he enjoys killing riombarans a lot more.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Telrunya on February 09, 2012, 02:05:22 PM
True, but the Daimons blocking the path are your shield, not Riombara's ;)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Marlboro on February 09, 2012, 10:54:36 PM
So the real question is, "Is Guillaume Piggy or Jack?"
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Calanar on February 10, 2012, 12:48:05 AM
Piggy. No offense, but here's my reasoning. Guillame wants to absorb Enweil and create an empire.

The Lord of the Flies is another name for Beelzebub one of the 7 Princes of Hell in the Christian Mythos. He represents the sin of Gluttony, and until the fat kid - the glutton - was killed, they were haunted by the influence of a Prince of Hell.

... I had way too much free time at work last summer...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Sypher on February 10, 2012, 08:43:55 AM
Yes, 1st son finally recovered enough to be captured.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Draco Tanos on February 10, 2012, 09:02:53 AM
Why is he not dead yet? >.>
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Gustav Kuriga on February 10, 2012, 09:46:37 AM
Piggy. No offense, but here's my reasoning. Guillame wants to absorb Enweil and create an empire.

The Lord of the Flies is another name for Beelzebub one of the 7 Princes of Hell in the Christian Mythos. He represents the sin of Gluttony, and until the fat kid - the glutton - was killed, they were haunted by the influence of a Prince of Hell.

... I had way too much free time at work last summer...

I'm not so sure about the fat kid representing Gluttony. Seeing as he was the one ensuring their survival...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Sypher on February 10, 2012, 11:09:32 AM
Why is he not dead yet? >.>

For some reason can't kill him through as soon as he's in prison.  :P Oh well, Yorick is looking forward to torturing him before chopping him up and sticking his head on a pike.

Kinda funny that I could take all 1st Son's gold but can't write a letter to him.  ???
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Draco Tanos on February 10, 2012, 11:18:43 AM
Apparently mugging is easier than writing?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on February 10, 2012, 12:09:51 PM
Apparently mugging is easier than writing?

Well, the thugs you employ to run your dungeon know how to beat someone up and take his money, but writing? That's a fancy no-good thing for fancy-pants people.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Draco Tanos on February 10, 2012, 12:40:54 PM
Is that why nobles hire scribes to write for them? >.>
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Zakilevo on February 10, 2012, 03:57:33 PM
Now everyone in Enweil is thinking about flooding Tom's inbox with letters asking Overlord to leave  8) Of course people are joking
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Telrunya on February 10, 2012, 04:08:45 PM
Is Overlord even in Enweil? You should get to your shiny new Capital and recruit up already :P
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Zakilevo on February 10, 2012, 04:32:43 PM
When we are done with Rumememnnen sure we will. Overlord is in Cjerog killing people.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Telrunya on February 10, 2012, 04:34:59 PM
Heh. Why don't you tell Riombara, meany General! ;)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Zakilevo on February 10, 2012, 04:37:16 PM
Hehe. In due time  8) 8)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: ^ban^ on February 10, 2012, 05:56:55 PM
Piggy. No offense, but here's my reasoning. Guillame wants to absorb Enweil and create an empire.

The Lord of the Flies is another name for Beelzebub one of the 7 Princes of Hell in the Christian Mythos. He represents the sin of Gluttony, and until the fat kid - the glutton - was killed, they were haunted by the influence of a Prince of Hell.

... I had way too much free time at work last summer...

While an interesting analysis, it isn't very accurate. Piggy represents the inherent mysticism of Man and how it has a place in even the most primitive cultures.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: JPierreD on February 10, 2012, 06:07:25 PM
While an interesting analysis, it isn't very accurate. Piggy represents the inherent mysticism of Man and how it has a place in even the most primitive cultures.

No, no, that is Simon.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Telrunya on February 11, 2012, 02:43:26 PM
If anything, I did get a newfound appreciation for the modifying equipment option. I never really seen it used, and I don't know how much the repairs would cost, but perhaps it's worth using it more then it's currently.

I also feel for Sint's Judge. How much Honour and Prestige have all those executions cost by now!
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: ^ban^ on February 11, 2012, 05:10:48 PM
No, no, that is Simon.

Oh, balls, you're right. Piggy was the one who was nothing more than the sunglasses wasn't he? Whoops.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Marlboro on February 11, 2012, 10:33:14 PM
Oh, balls, you're right. Piggy was the one who was nothing more than the sunglasses wasn't he? Whoops.

Piggy was the cold rationality of civilization; humans as statistics, atrocities rationalized. Jack was the feral, reptilian part of our brains that equates might with right.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on February 12, 2012, 06:57:47 PM
I guess Riombara wants to test see either if Fheuv'n would act on its words, or if the daimons would block us or not. I'm eager to see the answer to that question myself.

Quote
Report from Guillaume Chénier
Message sent to the human rulers of Beluaterra (6 recipients)
High Chancellor Hvrek,

How DARE you send your scumbag priests into Fheuv'n lands!?! You have been warned this would NOT be tolerated.

Fellow rulers, here are the facts:

1) Long ago, Allurite and Daishi priests of Riombara came to Enweil and Fheuv'n lands uninvited. They stirred unrest, instigated riots, and claimed religions in the name of Riombara for their war efforts.
2) Due to these criminal acts, these faiths were banned from our realms.
3) Even when the invasion begun, Riombara continued their criminal activities in our realms against our will.
4) Despite the threat of daimon worship, these faiths were instructed to consider our governments and faith evil. As such, when we try to convert the followers of Daimon Worship, it is Allurite and Daishi followers that attack us when we preach, not daimon worshippers.
5) Day after day, Allurite and Daishi followers protest against their lords.
6) These criminal actions that undermine the efforts of humanity against the daimons were ordered in the middle of the invasion.
7) The ruler of Riombara is the one responsible for the greatest population of trouble-causers.
8) The ruler Riombara explicitly ordered his followers to aid the daimons in sabotaging our realms.

As such, our patience with this insidious hidden Riombaran war against us has run out. Fheuv'n will take retaliatory actions against Riombara. Retaliation will continue until Riombara's ruler orders his followers to stop their aggression against our government and for his priests to forever remain out of Fheuv'n and Enweilian regions, including those lost to the daimons, without explicit invitation from the claiming realm.

Your forked tongue may work on the feeble-minded northerners, Hvrek, but they will not save your unscrupulous and criminal realm now. Justice will be done.

Guillaume Chénier
Hetman of Imperskoe Viys'ko iz Fheuv'na, Duke of Iato, Senator of Iato, Ambassador of Imperskoe Viys'ko iz Fheuv'na
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Marlboro on February 12, 2012, 07:09:28 PM
So, Piggy.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on February 12, 2012, 09:31:41 PM
I guess Riombara wants to test see either if Fheuv'n would act on its words, or if the daimons would block us or not. I'm eager to see the answer to that question myself.

Dude, it's a pretty moot point at the moment, isn't it? You and Rio can threaten each other all you want, but you're both daimon food at the moment. I guess if there's still an un-blighted passage between your realms when Overlord's done with Enweil and he decides to go straight to Nothoi and live you children alone you might be able to slap each other around a little before the end of days, but it seems a bit petty, doesn't it?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Telrunya on February 12, 2012, 09:34:03 PM
Hey, maybe we can appease Overlord and get him to agree to enjoy a show of us weak pathetic humans fighting against each other. Then he can mop up the North in the meantime and kill off the survivor of the Southern War afterwards.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Heq on February 13, 2012, 02:03:26 AM
Two Words:  Bring It

Nothoi, OG, and Sint seem to make a decent alliance.  IVF should be more worried about what Sint and Nothoi will do to it after this is all done then what the daimons will do.  After all, once we get Overlord's Armour we can try to harness our own soul forges and create monsterous armies of our own.

Or conquer Dyomoque then fall to internal bickering.  You know, either one's good.

Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: JPierreD on February 13, 2012, 05:49:25 AM
There are two options:

1) The Daimons blight the road between IVF and Rio. Then the threats are moot.
2) The Daimons don't. Then Rio lunches IVF and the threats are moot.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: fodder on February 13, 2012, 06:44:19 AM
"Monsters don't know what to do and stay out of the battle."

lol.. rio vs daimons.... with neutral monsters... heh
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Calanar on February 13, 2012, 09:29:54 PM
I wonder if I set a record... A new Priest of Daimon Worship arrived in Melhed about 30 minutes ago. He's already under arrest and in prison. :P
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Thunthorn on February 13, 2012, 11:29:54 PM
It was interesting that you was able to arrest him even though reports stated that he got injured by a lynchmob...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on February 14, 2012, 12:15:45 AM
Two Words:  Bring It

Nothoi, OG, and Sint seem to make a decent alliance.  IVF should be more worried about what Sint and Nothoi will do to it after this is all done then what the daimons will do.  After all, once we get Overlord's Armour we can try to harness our own soul forges and create monsterous armies of our own.

Or conquer Dyomoque then fall to internal bickering.  You know, either one's good.

Enweil is !@#$ed. Without Enweil, Fheuv'n is 100% guaranteed to be !@#$ed if people survive the invasion. Riombara is becoming more and more a greater threat than the Daimons are.

Also, damn I hate the monster spawns. We've been fighting rogues since we've been founded. Daimons passed through once or twice, but it's the damn monsters and undead that kept us busy all this time. We'd have been in Fengen way more often if we weren't always fighting off hordes and too far away to be able to arrive in time.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Marlboro on February 14, 2012, 01:23:32 AM
Fheuv'n is 100% guaranteed to be !@#$ed if people survive the invasion.

Must be doing something wrong if the idea of a non-apocalypse scenario gives you the sweats.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Norrel on February 14, 2012, 01:24:43 AM
Must be doing something wrong if the idea of a non-apocalypse scenario gives you the sweats.

Or maybe they're doing it very, very right.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Marlboro on February 14, 2012, 01:28:43 AM
That prospect troubles me deeply.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on February 14, 2012, 03:59:54 AM
Personally I think we're screwed. I ought to, by virtue of my positions, know more than most, and I feel like I know very little beyond some of the gross mechanics that be deduced by observing cause and effect. Then again I thought this about the Fourth Invasion too, though I had far less access to information at the time. Everything was bad and getting worse until suddenly *bam* the Archons show up and the Invasion is suddenly all but over.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Norrel on February 14, 2012, 04:01:28 AM
Everything was bad and getting worse until suddenly *bam* the Archons show up and the Invasion is suddenly all but over.
Tom has made it fairly clear that no such deus ex machina will be coming to save the day this time around.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on February 14, 2012, 04:03:55 AM
Tom has made it fairly clear that no such deus ex machina will be coming to save the day this time around.

Hence:

Personally I think we're screwed.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Sypher on February 14, 2012, 04:38:12 AM
The south is certainly screwed. IVF and Riombara can fight over the little un-blighted bridge between them I guess. IVF's position is terrible, one small city and blight on all sides.

For the North, I guess it depends on what the limit is on the number of troop leaders and troops the Overlord can summon to attack us and how well we do in killing them off.

I know various people have speculated on the resource the Daimons use, but there was never a way to confirm who was right to my knowledge. The other invaders were easier to figure out, Monsters used the region's population as food, the Undead well, the dead were their resource. The closest thing I can guess is that the Daimon's use human souls in some fashion ? Even if true, knowing it doesn't seem very helpful.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: DoctorHarte on February 14, 2012, 06:18:31 AM
I wonder if it would just be better to let Enweil die so Overlord will turn his attention north and we can scramble to TO the Daimon regions/keep the connection to Riombara. If the North can't stop them, IVF/Riombara will have no chance.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Sypher on February 14, 2012, 07:27:57 AM
Enweil is effectively dead already. Two rurals and a city that might get blighted any day now since I hear there is a takeover in Lopa? Might as well have the two rurals join IVF/Riombara.

Looks like the north gets the fun of dealing with Overlord and his flying Cavalry now.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on February 14, 2012, 09:28:39 AM
Also, damn I hate the monster spawns. We've been fighting rogues since we've been founded. Daimons passed through once or twice, but it's the damn monsters and undead that kept us busy all this time. We'd have been in Fengen way more often if we weren't always fighting off hordes and too far away to be able to arrive in time.

If you'd followed the lore, you would know they are fleeing the Blight - and your realm is surrounded by blighted regions, so it's little surprise you get a lot.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on February 14, 2012, 09:31:14 AM
Looks like the north gets the fun of dealing with Overlord and his flying Cavalry now.

Your information exchange amongst the humans is horrible. How many here know where Overlord is since yesterday?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Draco Tanos on February 14, 2012, 11:00:14 AM
Are you attacking Wudenkin?  I know daimons are, but I've not bothered to pay attention to who was leading them. :P
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Eithad on February 14, 2012, 11:03:19 AM
Your information exchange amongst the humans is horrible. How many here know where Overlord is since yesterday?

I don't. I agree humans suck. I felt more in the loop when I was with the monsters and they didn't even send realm wide messages.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Peri on February 14, 2012, 01:02:05 PM
Your information exchange amongst the humans is horrible.

I think that doesn't come to as a surprise to anyone. It has been pretty clear for a while that if knowledge is what is needed to defeat the invaders, humans have no hope :p
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: JPierreD on February 14, 2012, 02:10:06 PM
Your information exchange amongst the humans is horrible. How many here know where Overlord is since yesterday?

He was in Cjelorg before and is now in Tindle. Right?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Indirik on February 14, 2012, 02:31:17 PM
Your information exchange amongst the humans is horrible.
I agree. Nothing in Sint gets shared at all. It is partly because our ruler has been inactive. Had two inactivity warnings, and finally got booted out of office a couple days ago. I think the election ended today? Maybe tomorrow...

Anyway, in Sint we don't know anything at all. Stuff apparently only gets discussed in one small council. Our council members almost never share anything with the realm at large. I've asked about information sharing or coordinating guilds. "No, we don't do that."
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lefanis on February 14, 2012, 04:12:46 PM
I agree. Nothing in Sint gets shared at all. It is partly because our ruler has been inactive. Had two inactivity warnings, and finally got booted out of office a couple days ago. I think the election ended today? Maybe tomorrow...

Anyway, in Sint we don't know anything at all. Stuff apparently only gets discussed in one small council. Our council members almost never share anything with the realm at large. I've asked about information sharing or coordinating guilds. "No, we don't do that."

Mostly nothing is shared in Nothoi either, and we are about to get whacked. I suppose it's kept within council. It's been a pretty boring fifth invasion, just orders now and then to move to face the attacking daimons.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Calanar on February 14, 2012, 04:43:34 PM
As far as I knew, this turn he's in Tindle...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Solari on February 14, 2012, 05:57:41 PM
For much of the invasion, the generals were doing the vast majority of the work. We:


Much credit goes to Sassan of Rio for sustaining this momentum, but it's exhausting.  The game doesn't encourage realms to cooperate like this.  Just the opposite, actually.  When the Overlord shows up and starts mocking us for working against years of training that's taught us not to trust one another and then deliberately introduces additional mistrust by baiting Chénier and others, it can get maddening. 

Rulers have to step up.  Judges have to step up.  Everyone has to step up.   If it's not worth the effort, then the continent needs to be closed until such time as the player base expands to make a non-blighted BT feasible again.

There you go.  Two cents.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Indirik on February 14, 2012, 05:59:34 PM
Benton just shared scout reports with Sint showing the location of Overlord's army in Tindle.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on February 14, 2012, 07:16:20 PM
Much credit goes to Sassan of Rio for sustaining this momentum, but it's exhausting.  The game doesn't encourage realms to cooperate like this.  Just the opposite, actually.  When the Overlord shows up and starts mocking us for working against years of training that's taught us not to trust one another and then deliberately introduces additional mistrust by baiting Chénier and others, it can get maddening. 

Nothing Overlord did so far was accidental. :-)



Rulers have to step up.  Judges have to step up.  Everyone has to step up.   If it's not worth the effort, then the continent needs to be closed until such time as the player base expands to make a non-blighted BT feasible again.

Totally. Early on I was seriously afraid that it would all be over before it really started, because you were doing very well initially. But it all fell apart really soon, and ever since I'm wondering if you want the island to sink or why the heck nobody is giving me any opposition whatsoever. I ran 3 TOs in parallel, with my forces distributed over the regions. One coordinated attack on 2 of them (the other had too many troops, I agree) could have been done. They were running for days.

And I am very surprised that the north is really leaving the south to die. Sure, there's the Blight inbetween - but there's a couple things that could be done regardless.

Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Zakilevo on February 14, 2012, 07:21:22 PM
Well the south tried. It was really good in the beginning since things were actually working out pretty well. But the blighting of Piwani flipped the board. southern nobles can't even travel to the north to help out :P
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on February 14, 2012, 07:27:32 PM
And I am very surprised that the north is really leaving the south to die. Sure, there's the Blight inbetween - but there's a couple things that could be done regardless.

I can't think of anything.

And Solari had it - that kind of coordinating and constant information sharing is *exhausting* from the player perspective. You really have to be an addict to do it well, logging in constantly to nudge other people into sharing information, voicing their opinions and coordinating with each other, and copy/pasting everything you get of the least significance so that as many people as possible know about it. After the initial surge of interest, people got tired. It's hard to keep people playing at a hyper-active level for weeks on end - just look at what happened to Tan_Serrai. Sassan was the main force coordinating everything early on and he just burned out and realized he didn't have enough time IRL to keep doing it. It's also hard to keep people engaged when puzzling out the truth is so difficult. Maybe from the perspective of someone who knows everything it seems like it should be easy, but the vast majority of players only have tiny fragments of the truth (if any) and no obvious avenue to pursue to obtain more. So they're losing interest in trying. To keep people engaged you need to keep taking every opportunity to drop information, or its just not going to get out there. I don't know, maybe you've been doing that, but like I said earlier I should be one of the more knowledgeable people but I still feel like I know diddly squat in terms of what we can do to actually stop the daimons.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on February 14, 2012, 07:45:36 PM
I don't know, maybe you've been doing that, but like I said earlier I should be one of the more knowledgeable people but I still feel like I know diddly squat in terms of what we can do to actually stop the daimons.

The moment the first nightfall turned into midnight I picked the"just kill them enough times"- strategy and I'm sticking with it. Not the greatest chance of success ever but it's pretty fun. :)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Naidraug on February 14, 2012, 08:06:01 PM
I agree with Geronus here.

If there is information been sent, I have no idea where it is. I can't see nothing on Overlord's messages that helps or give clues, and I haven't receive much info on the sons either.
So with out much info on how to defeat, we can only fight and hope someday we'll be able to kill them.

When we were going south, the only ones that could have helped preventing the blight were Fronen, they asked us to perform TO, but we couldn't do it since there was no region connected to our realm, and them the blight came, now we can't move across and have no idea what to do.

Just kill the daimons and kill the sons
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Indirik on February 14, 2012, 08:24:49 PM
I can't think of anything.
Me either. There's no way to get troops across. So far as I know, no one has managed to find a way to move into the blight, but I've heard rumors that people think it's possible or something. I have no idea why they think it's possible. No rumours of how to remove blight. So, there must be something that you can do in the north to distract overlord, or cause him to move troops toward the north?

Quote
copy/pasting everything you get of the least significance so that as many people as possible know about it.
^^This. This *must* be done! You don't have to be highly coordinated, or hyperactive. But you have to share what you know. When Overlord gloats to all the rulers that he's moving north to attack the northerners, share that! When Overlord issues an ultimatum that Sint must convert to daimon worship or die, share it! (FWIW - The general nobility of Sint has still never been told about this ultimatum.) When a daimon army is spotted moving out of the blight, share it! When one of the Sons moves between realms, tell that other realm! And don't just share it with some secret society, or private council, either. Share it with the whole realm.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on February 14, 2012, 10:03:10 PM
If there is information been sent, I have no idea where it is. I can't see nothing on Overlord's messages that helps or give clues, and I haven't receive much info on the sons either.

I keep saying that you are looking for the wrong things. It doesn't help looking for the cat food if you really need the car keys.

It seems to me everyone believes there is some deus ex machina - some puzzle to solve, and as soon as you've figured it out, you have won. And I have been consistently saying since the beginning that it doesn't work this way.

I will say it again: There is NOTHING that will make the invaders go *poof*. There is no magic wand to solve your problem.

There is, however, a theme to every invasion. And if you figure out the theme, it helps you figure out what to do. But you still have to do it. Just knowing doesn't help.

And that's all I will say because that's already too close to spoilers for comfort.


Quote
copy/pasting everything you get of the least significance so that as many people as possible know about it.

I honestly think there are too many people in charge who suck at large-scale coordination. I have been saying for years that I hate micro-managers and that BM isn't a game for them. And yet, I see in many realms in the invasion that crucial information is kept within some realm council or whatever.

If you make all information go through a few chokepoints, then of course you will burn them out.

Guilds and religions, which can provide easy communication between realms, are almost entirely absent from the invasion, except for a few priests worrying that I'm converting all their believers.

There's a guild for unique item exchanges or something, but none for information exchange.


If information were sent on all the government channels - ruler, general, judge and banker - then there would be four and not one person who could distribute it within the realm.


Some people do a great job. I see some not copy/pasting, but summing up. Doesn't take much time, as you've read things already and writing two sentences is probably faster than copy/pasting several messages.


And there's a part I can't reveal, yet.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on February 14, 2012, 10:08:57 PM
^^This. This *must* be done! You don't have to be highly coordinated, or hyperactive. But you have to share what you know.

Not even everything. But I am seriously frightened that I can move through an entire realm to hit the next-door neighbour, and when I arrive they are completely surprised.

How many people outside Sint even know of the priests?

How many people still don't know that Overlord has announced Notoi as the next target?


You don't have to spread every tiny bit. I agree that would be straining. But there's at most one or two major events per day, often more like every few days, and most of the people on the island never learn about them, or learn about them with long delays.


Example: I know for a fact that someone had figured out how the Blight spreads weeks ago. He had a hunch after the first(!!!) region was blighted and was entirely sure after the second (except Villriil). It took three more blightings until the mechanics is more or less general knowledge.

It's not that it was too hard to find out. It was that when someone found out, nobody listened and nobody spread it.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Marlboro on February 14, 2012, 10:38:25 PM
The moment the first nightfall turned into midnight I picked the"just kill them enough times"- strategy and I'm sticking with it. Not the greatest chance of success ever but it's pretty fun. :)

That's sort of what I'm getting; Thalmarkin and Melhed ate up the various "of the North"s and you don't really see him around anymore, while Nightfall of the East is still kicking around tearing stuff up in the South. Seems like they change tactics whenever a new one spawns- Nightfall launched suicidal campaigns while Darkest Hour would start a TO then sprint around the realm until he got cornered. Might just be the Daimons changing tactics to specifically deal with the northern power bloc though.

Edit: They're probably different species of Daimon completely, seeing as some even seem to have special powers, like Darkest Hour's strange two-region escape from Jedinchel after OG and Thal tore through his unit.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lefanis on February 14, 2012, 10:48:47 PM

And I am very surprised that the north is really leaving the south to die. Sure, there's the Blight inbetween - but there's a couple things that could be done regardless.

Did anyone get their hands on a scroll of teleportation?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Draco Tanos on February 14, 2012, 11:16:47 PM
Beyond the Blight mentions amulets from wizards/sages that allow people to walk through the Blight.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Calanar on February 15, 2012, 12:09:29 AM
That was in the messages that went to the realms too, and I made sure to look around Lastfell for a good amount of time, and had adventurers look around too, but nothing happened. Adventurers aren't exactly helping much more than with Unique Items, and those let us fight a little more on par with the Daimons...

This was the first I've heard of the Sint thing, but most of the other stuff I knew. Soren's drawn the conclusion that there needs to be a Daimon worshiping presence in the regions for the Blight to take hold, and/or the regions need to be connected to the Blight, so for the time being Old Grehk and Melhed are safest if that's the case.

Sint hasn't said anything about the priests though the reports speak for themselves given how many were executed. And the Pontifex is about to auto-pause if I'm not mistaken... I tried baiting Overlord for a hint about the south, but I think Tom/Overlord is sick of Soren's attitude. :P
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on February 15, 2012, 02:18:17 AM
I honestly think there are too many people in charge who suck at large-scale coordination. I have been saying for years that I hate micro-managers and that BM isn't a game for them. And yet, I see in many realms in the invasion that crucial information is kept within some realm council or whatever.

If you make all information go through a few chokepoints, then of course you will burn them out.

Guilds and religions, which can provide easy communication between realms, are almost entirely absent from the invasion, except for a few priests worrying that I'm converting all their believers.

There's a guild for unique item exchanges or something, but none for information exchange.


If information were sent on all the government channels - ruler, general, judge and banker - then there would be four and not one person who could distribute it within the realm.


Some people do a great job. I see some not copy/pasting, but summing up. Doesn't take much time, as you've read things already and writing two sentences is probably faster than copy/pasting several messages.


And there's a part I can't reveal, yet.

There will always be a choke-point for the information:  The person who gets it. Exactly one person from each realm (though for a couple realms right now it's none) gets the message when Overlord says anything in one of the continent-wide channels. RP events can hit more people, but not necessarily a lot more. The level of activity you're talking about to guarantee that that information gets spread around is the kind of activity you need out of a General or Marshal, and they have to be among the most active people in their realm if they want to be good at their jobs. It is no coincidence that the initial coordination was mainly driven through the Generals' channel; Rulers can afford to be sporadically active and often are. Generals can't be and are therefore usually highly active, engaged players.

I do think that the lack of a guild to share information in is a bad thing, but I'm not the one to solve that problem. I just don't have the time (or desire) right now to devote to BM to coordinate things on that scale. I make time to get deeply involved in the game when something that interests me is going on, but I don't have time anymore to do it all the time. I have to pick and choose, and so I focus on the characters and events that are interesting from week to week while the rest of my characters get the once-a-turn login, scan messages and respond to orders schtick. The Invasion itself just hasn't grabbed my interest. Frankly the aspect of the Invasion that's pulled me the in the most has been the conflict with Old Grehk over Wudenkin and the opportunity to try to maneuver Fronen into a better political position post-Invasion (if there is a post-Invasion). I've spent time and energy on that, but sifting through messages and pondering events, not to mention actively gathering additional information, and putting effort into it every day or few days, all so that I can try to puzzle out how to stop the daimons just doesn't really do it for me. I love the effects that the Invasions have, as I believe that they prevent BT from politically stagnating the way some other islands do, but I have to admit I've never really felt very engaged by them when they're in progress. Maybe that's part of the problem right now. Seems like there's a lot of apathy at the moment.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Zakilevo on February 15, 2012, 02:46:09 AM
Enweil shared letters with everyone in the realm during the invasion.

People didn't really say much about issues. Many people may read letters and move according to orders but they don't reply or suggest ideas too often.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lefanis on February 15, 2012, 03:37:27 AM
I wonder how letters get sent across the blight.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Zakilevo on February 15, 2012, 03:54:58 AM
birds of course. they bypass the blight. Just gotta fly higher than clouds.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Sypher on February 15, 2012, 04:44:37 AM
Boats as well. Presumably the blight only goes out so far past the coastline.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Andrew on February 15, 2012, 04:47:05 AM
No, it's easy how the message get across the blight...

http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/High_Tech_Game

... cell towers are not affected by really thick dark fog.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Zakilevo on February 15, 2012, 06:42:36 AM
I forgot BM is a high tech game...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on February 15, 2012, 10:14:04 AM
There will always be a choke-point for the information:  The person who gets it. Exactly one person from each realm (though for a couple realms right now it's none) gets the message when Overlord says anything in one of the continent-wide channels.

That's on the order of one message per day. Sometimes two, sometimes none. Nobody can tell me that copy/pasting one message a day is too much hassle.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lefanis on February 15, 2012, 11:10:10 AM
... I never noticed a Soulforge Shield before.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Draco Tanos on February 15, 2012, 11:11:21 AM
Nor did I.  Thinking Tom's killed enough NPCs/blighted enough regions to get a new toy.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Naidraug on February 15, 2012, 12:57:53 PM
I keep saying that you are looking for the wrong things. It doesn't help looking for the cat food if you really need the car keys.

It seems to me everyone believes there is some deus ex machina - some puzzle to solve, and as soon as you've figured it out, you have won. And I have been consistently saying since the beginning that it doesn't work this way.

I will say it again: There is NOTHING that will make the invaders go *poof*. There is no magic wand to solve your problem.

There is, however, a theme to every invasion. And if you figure out the theme, it helps you figure out what to do. But you still have to do it. Just knowing doesn't help.

And that's all I will say because that's already too close to spoilers for comfort.

I'm not saying we are looking for something that will make the invaders go *poof*.

But now, we are facing a Blight that take regions away, and we can't do nothing about it. We have two majors characteristics on BM - 1- Politics and 2 - War. None of them, have anything related to big magic events or blighted regions.

I agree with some that the invasions make things fun and give a little change in things, but  there is not much we can do to act against it, just fight, kill the daimons, execute the priests and sons.

If that's not enough, then we need to know what will help. No need to spoiler everything and give us a magic wand to make the invaders go *poof*. But clearly, and as you are pointing out constantly here on the forum that we are not getting it,  any hint or clue you are giving are not working . So, maybe it is time for change a few things.

After all, I don't want (or have ways since I have important bills and things to pay) to pay for a book to understand "ok, this is what is happening, oh so that's how it work".
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Sypher on February 15, 2012, 01:12:25 PM
If this invasion has a theme it is despair. Overlord seems to enjoy telling us all its hopeless and mocking humanity. Its reinforced by how Overlord sets up who he attacks next. Its a bizarre strategy picking the next realm to attack based on who responds last or injuries a Daimon troopleader. I believe its to reinforce that Overlord doesn't consider us a threat to his plans.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: De-Legro on February 15, 2012, 01:14:28 PM
I'm not saying we are looking for something that will make the invaders go *poof*.

But now, we are facing a Blight that take regions away, and we can't do nothing about it. We have two majors characteristics on BM - 1- Politics and 2 - War. None of them, have anything related to big magic events or blighted regions.

I agree with some that the invasions make things fun and give a little change in things, but  there is not much we can do to act against it, just fight, kill the daimons, execute the priests and sons.

If that's not enough, then we need to know what will help. No need to spoiler everything and give us a magic wand to make the invaders go *poof*. But clearly, and as you are pointing out constantly here on the forum that we are not getting it,  any hint or clue you are giving are not working . So, maybe it is time for change a few things.

After all, I don't want (or have ways since I have important bills and things to pay) to pay for a book to understand "ok, this is what is happening, oh so that's how it work".

The book doesn't provide that sort of info. This has been said numerous times.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Naidraug on February 15, 2012, 01:21:34 PM
The book doesn't provide that sort of info. This has been said numerous times.

May not give clues on how to end the invasion or anything, but for what I have seen in the comments, it helps to understand the blight.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: JPierreD on February 15, 2012, 03:02:35 PM
If this invasion has a theme it is despair. Overlord seems to enjoy telling us all its hopeless and mocking humanity. Its reinforced by how Overlord sets up who he attacks next. Its a bizarre strategy picking the next realm to attack based on who responds last or injuries a Daimon troopleader. I believe its to reinforce that Overlord doesn't consider us a threat to his plans.

That's not too far away from what we are theorizing in Rio, though we are aiming more at "fear". Still need to find a way to counter that, though.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on February 15, 2012, 05:24:25 PM
... I never noticed a Soulforge Shield before.

You're starting to pick up on the subtle hints. :-)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on February 15, 2012, 05:29:03 PM
I agree with some that the invasions make things fun and give a little change in things, but  there is not much we can do to act against it, just fight, kill the daimons, execute the priests and sons.

If that's not enough, then we need to know what will help.

The problem is that while I'm trying to make sure you're not frustrated OOC, I am at the same time running a disinformation campaign IC.

OOC, all I am really willing to say is that all information you need is in players' hands already. Your main weakness is that people don't share much. And I don't mean that as in copy&paste everything to everyone, but really major events. Sint priests is a great example - that was an entirely new vector, and they didn't tell anyone about it for days.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Zakilevo on February 15, 2012, 05:42:00 PM
Every time we kill one of the sons, Overlord gains an item?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on February 15, 2012, 06:33:11 PM
Doubtful. Also seems to be pointless, as every time we do another one pops up. I'm not saying that we shouldn't take every opportunity, but there does not appear to be a limit on them, at least not yet. Plus they're doing stupid risky things. Like going infiltrator and trying to stab Fronen's Judge. And getting caught. I doubt they'd do that if there was a limit on their numbers.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Zakilevo on February 15, 2012, 06:35:44 PM
I knew those blasted priests were infiltrators. When I accused 3rd son about it he was like why would we do that. Yeah right...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on February 15, 2012, 06:37:01 PM
The problem is that while I'm trying to make sure you're not frustrated OOC, I am at the same time running a disinformation campaign IC.

OOC, all I am really willing to say is that all information you need is in players' hands already. Your main weakness is that people don't share much. And I don't mean that as in copy&paste everything to everyone, but really major events. Sint priests is a great example - that was an entirely new vector, and they didn't tell anyone about it for days.

That being the case, I'd suggest that you continue to drop information if you're not already doing that. We're apparently a little slow.

I'll be honest with you, I've already given up on the idea of puzzling out the truth myself, but I do rather hope that *someone* does.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on February 15, 2012, 06:38:43 PM
I knew those blasted priests were infiltrators. When I accused 3rd son about it he was like why would we do that. Yeah right...

Well... actually.. he wasn't. That was a nice bit of misdirection by a human/player infiltrator. :-)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Zakilevo on February 15, 2012, 07:11:58 PM
the blight is about to swallow the city. I wonder what happens when the blight covers the city with people inside.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Calanar on February 15, 2012, 07:20:20 PM
Maybe there is a limit, they all just have different tactics, kind of like the Nightfalls etc...

1, 2, and 3 were priests. Maybe 4, 5, and 6 are infiltrators. That might mean that 7, 8, and 9 are heroes or something. If we execute too many sons we could be overwhelmed with Daimon armies if we don't get rid of the Nightfalls...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: vonGenf on February 15, 2012, 07:28:45 PM
1, 2, and 3 were priests. Maybe 4, 5, and 6 are infiltrators. That might mean that 7, 8, and 9 are heroes or something.

Beware of the Courtier/Trader Daimon!!!!!
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Calanar on February 15, 2012, 07:36:45 PM
Looking back at the wiki... 3/4 Nightfalls were killed and became Midnights. 1/3 Midnights have been killed and become a Darkest Hour. There's probably a limit to both, Daimons and Sons, and then we have to capture a powerful Overlord and kill him.

There are also the Books of Daemon Banishing that I haven't heard about since we were fighting for Vilriil. I only know that 2 or 3 were completed and they weaken the ability for Daimons to come through to our world.

Then there's the need to share info so we can capture and execute these Daimons.

The priests are probably going to weaken our control and ability to resist the Blight if they aren't captured swiftly. Any other ideas?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on February 15, 2012, 07:54:47 PM
I have strong doubts as to whether there is any limit on the number of characters the GM family can and will create to replace fallen leaders. That brute force solution to the problem seems entirely too crude and simple to be the ultimate answer. I also know that 5th Son was a priest for at least a while because we tried arresting him.

My only idea was to somehow use portal stones to reverse what was done in Vilriil, only I have absolutely no idea how that would work. I should mention that possibility again though IC. My thought was to try using them in one of the cities that hosted a Temple of Light previously. That might be a tall order though to convince the realms involved to try it since they are the capital cities of their respective realms...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Telrunya on February 15, 2012, 07:58:19 PM
the blight is about to swallow the city. I wonder what happens when the blight covers the city with people inside.

They get a message they can't do anything and to get out asap. All you can do is travel really. No actions and orders are available.

Well, perhaps Overlord got his new shiny Shield from torturing enough Nobles :P
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Darksun on February 15, 2012, 09:31:09 PM
So what was stopping nobles from the north from crossing the blight without troops and then joining up with a southern realm? Boosting the number of troop leaders in the southern realms could have made a significant difference since the Overlord more or less broadcasted his target.

I thought the blight just caused your troops to scatter?

Can Advies enter the blight unharmed? Can priests?

Is the theme that we have to cast aside all our differences and affiliations to unite against a common foe? IVF has pretty much done the opposite, much to my own dismay. New religion, old grievances, useless grudges, etc.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Telrunya on February 15, 2012, 09:42:08 PM
What did you expect from IVF, really? :P

The Blight forces you to turn around, you can't travel through it. At least, for as far as I know. ;) A Riombaran Priest tried to travel through a Blighted region in the beginning of the Invasion and was also forced to turn back. Adventurers couldn't travel through the blight either, at least during the Fourth Invasion. Though there certainly have been reports of NPCs living in the Blight (The RP events).
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on February 15, 2012, 10:06:51 PM
To be fair, Hvrek isn't exactly going out of his way to defuse the situation down there. In fact he can fairly accurately be said to be throwing fuel on the fire. I have a somewhat unique perspective having a character who is a Ruler and another on Riombara's council. I doubt anyone in Riombara realizes the extent to which he is aggressively antagonizing IVF. Not that IVF is by any means reasonable, but there's no reason things have to be coming to blows the way they are. Someone interested in keeping the peace would probably easily have been able to do so without even making any concessions.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Telrunya on February 15, 2012, 10:09:08 PM
From the few things I saw, yeah, I suspected that Hvrek wasn't exactly helping the situation :P
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Sypher on February 16, 2012, 07:33:45 AM
Maybe there is a limit, they all just have different tactics, kind of like the Nightfalls etc...

1, 2, and 3 were priests. Maybe 4, 5, and 6 are infiltrators. That might mean that 7, 8, and 9 are heroes or something. If we execute too many sons we could be overwhelmed with Daimon armies if we don't get rid of the Nightfalls...

5th Son is definitely an infiltrator. I have two of the Sons in prison right now, if they don't escape I suppose we'll see new ones appear. Still, better than letting them run loose and use their magic.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Arrakis on February 16, 2012, 12:32:35 PM
First Enweilios blighted and then the 4th son executed while the city is already blighted. Epic :p

one son killed and the other two in prison. i wonder if we kill them all in the same whether they would be able to come back  :-\
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on February 17, 2012, 04:55:54 AM
If you'd followed the lore, you would know they are fleeing the Blight - and your realm is surrounded by blighted regions, so it's little surprise you get a lot.

Well, honestly, I was getting just as many monsters and undead before the invasion, though I guess the lands were blighted then too. I suspected, however (and still do), that it has more to do with our extremely low adventurer count. We tried enslaving foreign adventurers when we went to war, but unfortunately we didn't get many opportunities and didn't find many.

And most of the time, it was the undead plaguing us, not the monsters, though I don't know if that changes anything.

Much credit goes to Sassan of Rio for sustaining this momentum, but it's exhausting.  The game doesn't encourage realms to cooperate like this.  Just the opposite, actually.  When the Overlord shows up and starts mocking us for working against years of training that's taught us not to trust one another and then deliberately introduces additional mistrust by baiting Chénier and others, it can get maddening. 

Guillaume could have very easily done a lot of things to screw up human efforts and aid the daimons. Allying the daimons, for one. Refusing to take a hit to allow the grand coalition of realms is another. Use daimons as a diversion to continue attacks. Etc, etc.

Instead, he strongly pushed for peace early on, did everything he could to fight the daimons (though with a !@#$ty economy and the resulting poor army in conjunction with constant rogue spawns, the contributions were indeed limited), shares every little bit he gets (which is pretty much nothing, as he's dealing with rogues more than with daimons). The North doesn't trust him because they don't want to. He expects him to have forgiven everyone, as if it was necessary for cooperation, and to accept everything they do as being right and justified. He's done nothing but help the cause, and yet was criticized for doing something Rio also did without any voices being raised against them.

Guillaume isn't stirring any mistrust, he just won't accept to forgive the people that continue acting as reprehensibly as ever. The North doesn't share not because they mistrust us, but because they want us to die first, and hope to emerge as the sole survivors of the invasion. It's a typical scheme that has been seen in the last two invasions, in which the best thing to do was always to divert the brunt of the invasion elsewhere as invasions were on a timer anyways.

As if telling us how to defeat daimons would make us hinder them less...

There's a guild for unique item exchanges or something, but none for information exchange.

With the North and South split, it's a little late to start a guild...

OOC, all I am really willing to say is that all information you need is in players' hands already. Your main weakness is that people don't share much. And I don't mean that as in copy&paste everything to everyone, but really major events. Sint priests is a great example - that was an entirely new vector, and they didn't tell anyone about it for days.

I asked their ruler about all these executions, and never got a reply. A good amount of time later, another ruler shared a letter from a judge or something that somewhat explained it... Sint, imo, is the realm sharing the least.

I *did* tell everyone for years that Sint will be our undoing.

Is the theme that we have to cast aside all our differences and affiliations to unite against a common foe? IVF has pretty much done the opposite, much to my own dismay. New religion, old grievances, useless grudges, etc.

If Riombara's ruler tells his followers, very present in Fheuv'n, to stir up against their lords and to attack Fheuv'n's new official religion's priests, that's all good and games, right? That's a good way of uniting against the invaders, right? But if Guillaume protests, oh, that meanie! Why won't he just shut up, right?

With all these daimon priests in Sint, do you think I want to leave the religion our serfs in the hands of those that have never done anything else than try to kill us every chance they get?

What Guillaume asked was extremely reasonable: Tell your followers to ignore us, and you'll never feel any repercussions of our religion having been created as we won't come to preach in your lands. He then also extended that condition to Enweil, saying that Rio priests should have the permission from Enweil before preaching there. Which is usually the law in 99% of the game's realms: no foreigners may preach without permission. But no, Rio's ruler insists he has the right to preach wherever, and to tell them to sabotage our realm whenever.

What displeases some is that Guillaume won't let himself be a pushover for this. Why should he? He considers his realm doomed anyways, and he knows that the realms least hit by the invasion would have ganged up on him after the invasion regardless of what he said or did. Why shouldn't he fight for his honor and for what he deems is right? What's the point of kissing ass when you have nothing worth surviving for?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Indirik on February 17, 2012, 05:05:16 AM
I asked their ruler about all these executions, and never got a reply. A good amount of time later, another ruler shared a letter from a judge or something that somewhat explained it... Sint, imo, is the realm sharing the least.
Sint's ruler has been almost completely inactive for quite some time. Since I've been there we've gotten two separate inactivity warnings, and she finally auto-abdicated. Benton was been elected yesterday I think, and seems to be doing much better already. I'm hoping for much better results now.

Also, someone asked my character to run for general of Sint, so I tossed me hat in the ring. Last I looked, I was the only one running. :P
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on February 17, 2012, 05:22:40 AM
Sint's ruler has been almost completely inactive for quite some time. Since I've been there we've gotten two separate inactivity warnings, and she finally auto-abdicated. Benton was been elected yesterday I think, and seems to be doing much better already. I'm hoping for much better results now.

Also, someone asked my character to run for general of Sint, so I tossed me hat in the ring. Last I looked, I was the only one running. :P

Yea, but they RE-ELECTED the guy more than once, didn't they? Caitlin never shared anything, and I'm pretty sure he/she got re-elected a good number of times.

Sometimes, the players of the realm ARE to blame for their own troubles...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Calanar on February 17, 2012, 06:26:47 AM
I've got my council sharing anything they hear, and I tell them to pass on my messages. Anything I get from them I've been forwarding to the rulers' channel now.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: De-Legro on February 17, 2012, 06:42:54 AM
Yea, but they RE-ELECTED the guy more than once, didn't they? Caitlin never shared anything, and I'm pretty sure he/she got re-elected a good number of times.

Sometimes, the players of the realm ARE to blame for their own troubles...

Yes, yes they are.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Darksun on February 17, 2012, 01:34:46 PM
@Chénier

Starting "The Way" would have been a great idea after the invasion. I think it was incredibly useless to do this during the invasion. That is all. My perspective. The rest of the actions that both Rio and IVF have taken around religion have their root in the fact that "The Way" was founded, period. It's been quite a distraction to our ultimate goal of surviving the Daimon onslaught from this player's point of view.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on February 17, 2012, 01:48:02 PM
@Chénier

Starting "The Way" would have been a great idea after the invasion. I think it was incredibly useless to do this during the invasion. That is all. My perspective. The rest of the actions that both Rio and IVF have taken around religion have their root in the fact that "The Way" was founded, period. It's been quite a distraction to our ultimate goal of surviving the Daimon onslaught from this player's point of view.

You are entitled to your opinion.

However, do consider that we've been trying to found it for a while. Bugs prevented us. Then, consider that daimon worship poses a serious threat. You might be afraid of the big armies, but what are you going to do against the flocks of priests of 80% of your regions follow daimon worship? Lastly, consider that Alluran considered our old faiths, notably Ereticism, evil as well, so we'd be beaten in our own regions by the allurites when trying to convert the daimon worshippers anyways.

We had no priests in our realm, and Enweil's priests had plenty to worry about in their own. With Enweil dead, the hope is to convert the Ereticism priests to The Way.

Oh, and Guillaume just got another serious wound while preaching in core Fheuv'n regions by Allurites. Expect repercussions.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Indirik on February 17, 2012, 02:25:17 PM
Yea, but they RE-ELECTED the guy more than once, didn't they?
Not since I've been in Sint. Which, to be fair, has only been six weeks. We have had inactivity warnings, but she always came back before being booted from office. Now she has been, and someone else has been elected. I obviously don't know what happened before I got there.

Quote
Sometimes, the players of the realm ARE to blame for their own troubles...
I quite agree.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Darksun on February 17, 2012, 04:02:54 PM
You might be afraid of the big armies, but what are you going to do against the flocks of priests of 80% of your regions follow daimon worship?

I don't think it really matters at this point. The south is in it's death throes and instead of working together in mutual defence for the hope that we can weaken the enemy to give our fellow humans (in the North) a chance we've decided to squabble over these minor issues, hastening our own demise.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: fodder on February 17, 2012, 04:08:45 PM
funny. nothing is mentioned realmwide about religion.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Psyche on February 17, 2012, 07:37:37 PM
Hvrek is most definitely fueling the fire, and has done so quite well.  He has managed to use it in concert with the fact that Chenier wanted to take Enweil for immunity from Overlord, and that he wants to have jurisdiction over Enweilian religion.  When he started crying out and also declaring that Enweil and IVF were both Enweil realms, and THEN lowered relations because of the priests, it was like bells to the ears.  IVF threatens war, and then claims to more or less be the new Enweil.  With Enweil not able to do anything, they pretty much have to join one realm or the other to contribute.  If Hvrek successfully says the hell with some Enweilians who can't be trustsed, let's finish the war, then the daimons move away so he can war Enweil.  With the Daimons having moved away, Enweil has started a TO of Lopa, a region which Riombara is coming to get back.  Riombara actively warring Enweil over land = daimons stay away.  IVF is no match at all for Riombara, and with the new TO system, Riombara can indefinitely keep the daimons away by sustaining an unending TO while Overlord has done the same by blighting their city.  Basically, it's a nice stalemate situation unless the rest of Riombara throws Hvrek off, or Overlord makes good on the destroy Enweil promise AFTER the duke of Enweilieos drives the city rogue.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chaotrance13 on February 18, 2012, 04:41:26 PM
On the communication thing.. I sent a message to the guild linking the Northern realms yesterday saying that the Grehkian Legion was in pursuit of Darkest Hour of the Night across the mountains. I also put in it that if he kept moving, he would possibly assault Reeds in 3-4 turns. I asked, as VM of the Legion, whether a defensive force was in place ready to receive them.

What was the reply?

You guessed it. Nothing.

You think the South is buggered? Looks like the North is too.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Indirik on February 18, 2012, 04:48:05 PM
I've tried asking around IC if there was an info sharing guild and was told there was none.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chaotrance13 on February 18, 2012, 04:54:52 PM
It's the Draconic Union guild. That's the one that's used by Sint, Thelmarkin, OG and Nothoi for co-ordination. But generally it's restricted to say, the four core positions of each realm plus army marshals and VMs.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on February 18, 2012, 06:04:03 PM
I've tried to get some info sharing through there as well. Like I request a battle report or sometimes a scout report and provide them when I have them myself. And sometimes someone else says something, but it really isn't being used to it's full potential.

I tried to get advies in there as well to allow them to communicate and get us more books but that kinda flopped. Mostly because I didn't really take matters in my own hands to coordinate them or to really push everyone to join...

Anyway, the pre-invasion existence of this guild, established in 4 realms, really is a blessing for the North and I'd love to see it used more. It's kind of disheartening though that it doesn't even get recognized as a possible communication guild in sint.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Thunthorn on February 18, 2012, 06:36:47 PM
Melhed would happily join in such a guild should we know about it. We need a way to let Marshals make informed decisions without the delay that occurs when information pass over the General first.

Right now the Imperator order the army directly to speed things up, and this is not the optimal situation.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Indirik on February 19, 2012, 02:26:13 AM
It's the Draconic Union guild. That's the one that's used by Sint, Thelmarkin, OG and Nothoi for co-ordination. But generally it's restricted to say, the four core positions of each realm plus army marshals and VMs.
I'm in Sint.

I check every Sint region I walk through for guildhouses.

I've been a Marshal in Sint for several weeks.

I just got elected General.

I've never heard of it.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lefanis on February 19, 2012, 03:06:25 AM
I never heard about it either.

But then again, I was just elected general against my own expectations.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on February 19, 2012, 04:22:27 AM
I'm in Sint.

I check every Sint region I walk through for guildhouses.

I've been a Marshal in Sint for several weeks.

I just got elected General.

I've never heard of it.

I've heard of it, and I'm in Fheuv'n. Mind you, probably just because I caught a lucky message reffering to it so many months back.

As for the blight, perhaps I wasn't paying close enough attention, but I still haven't "figured it out", unless it's something obvious like "takeovers allow blight", which isn't very useful. If those who knew such things would share their observations, perhaps BT wouldn't be screwed.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chaotrance13 on February 19, 2012, 11:23:11 AM
I'm in Sint.

I check every Sint region I walk through for guildhouses.

I've been a Marshal in Sint for several weeks.

I just got elected General.

I've never heard of it.

Hmm.  Just checked where Askarn said the guildhouses were - Ossmat, Gethsemene and Orde. So there should be one in Gethsemene as far as I'm aware.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Indirik on February 19, 2012, 02:45:42 PM
I will keep looking.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on February 19, 2012, 07:31:50 PM
Quote
The true face of Riombarans:

The forces from Enweil brace as they prepare to defend their ongoing takeover.
The region owner Netherworld and their allies attack the takeover forces.
The confederates from Imperskoe Viys'ko iz Fheuv'na join the defense.
Royal Riombaran Raiders have attack orders.
The Riombara units join in to support their realm-mates.

I wasn't expecting that one. I never got any notices of Rio and Enweil lowering relations...

Now, if THAT isn't trying to kill us all, I don't know what is.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on February 19, 2012, 08:47:36 PM
Quote
The true face of Riombarans:

The forces from Enweil brace as they prepare to defend their ongoing takeover.
The region owner Netherworld and their allies attack the takeover forces.
The confederates from Imperskoe Viys'ko iz Fheuv'na join the defense.
Royal Riombaran Raiders have attack orders.
The Riombara units join in to support their realm-mates.

I wasn't expecting that one. I never got any notices of Rio and Enweil lowering relations...

Now, if THAT isn't trying to kill us all, I don't know what is.

Oooooooops. ::)
Looks like it's my unit that caused all this mess...  ;D
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on February 19, 2012, 08:50:16 PM
I wasn't expecting that one. I never got any notices of Rio and Enweil lowering relations...

Now, if THAT isn't trying to kill us all, I don't know what is.

 
Oooooooops. ::)
Looks like it's my unit that caused all this mess...  ;D

Who lowered relations between Enweil and Rio? I did with Fheuv'n, but I wasn't aware the alliance between those two had dissolved.

The ruler is to blame, not whatever unit was set to aggressive.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on February 19, 2012, 08:56:59 PM
Probably Hvrek. He's been a bit pissy about the enweilians lately... something to do with religion. Or that might have been about IVF. No idea really, I haven't had enough time to keep up on what's happening in all my realms lately.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on February 19, 2012, 10:23:24 PM
Probably Hvrek. He's been a bit pissy about the enweilians lately... something to do with religion. Or that might have been about IVF. No idea really, I haven't had enough time to keep up on what's happening in all my realms lately.

Fheuv'n lowered relations from alliance to peace, and then to neutral about a week ago or so. With Guillaume frequently seriously wounded by allurites in his own realm, and Enweil's rulers regularly captured or wounded by daimons, communication has been rather poor.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: fodder on February 20, 2012, 07:33:24 AM
I wasn't expecting that one. I never got any notices of Rio and Enweil lowering relations...

Now, if THAT isn't trying to kill us all, I don't know what is.

obviously, the 1st highlighted line is what you would call a txt bug.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on February 20, 2012, 02:10:18 PM
obviously, the 1st highlighted line is what you would call a txt bug.

Nah, it's just clearly stating the obvious. :P
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Psyche on February 20, 2012, 06:11:27 PM
Hvrek lowered relations.  IVF talked about absorbing Enweil, and then when Chenier started complaining about Alluran preaching in his lands he claimed he exerted the same for Enweil.  If you claim power for both, Hvrek will treat you both the same, much as how Chenier lowered relations with Riombara because of Alluran.  Two seperate entities on each side, but Chenier and Hvrek both chose to lump them together.  The main difference though is that the Enweil side is screwed.  When the battle happened in Lopa, Riombara, though not currently officially at war with Enweil, did bring war to their lands.  In response, Overlord told Hvrek he'd keep his forces out of Riombara's way. :)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on February 20, 2012, 06:17:35 PM
 :-\
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Psyche on February 20, 2012, 06:29:44 PM
It's not like an official peace, but at least while IVF/Enweil is at lowered relations and getting some skirmishes Riombara isn't having to watch its flank.  I don't think I'll have Hvrek take a plunge and cooperate with the Netherworld, but a little ease of mind on that end isn't a bad byproduct of Chenier (character) being an ass.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Arrakis on February 20, 2012, 06:34:10 PM
Why wasn't any of this shared to the realm? Riombarans have no clue this happened; especially the part about Overlord sparing us for the moment. Anyway...it is so damn easy to bring down Hvrek from the ruler position. He has broken a ton of Riombaran laws in all this, however, I guess everyone is lazy to do anything about it; I know I am  :P Or even worse, no one really cares which is kind of sad. I must admit that Riombara is quite different than from the days Delvin ruled it. The high moral standards of Riombara don't seem to exist anymore.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on February 20, 2012, 06:44:41 PM
I must admit that Riombara is quite different than from the days Delvin ruled it. The high moral standards of Riombara don't seem to exist anymore.

Nah... that was just Delvin.  :)

Also I care, but it's not like I want to be ruler again...  :P

EDIT: Almost forgot, the days that Sassan was general we had pretty high moral standards too. No burning Enweilios to the ground etc...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Arrakis on February 20, 2012, 06:47:34 PM
I think many people don't do anything because everyone is counting there's no way Rio can survive. Through this odd turn of events, though, there is a possibility we could.  weird :p
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Telrunya on February 20, 2012, 07:24:46 PM
Haven't heard that one either. Hvrek is a quiet Ruler, but Marche is still waiting for Sassan to return really :P Whatever ceasefire there is, it won't last long when Riombara goes to annoy IVF some more by searching for any Daimons in their regions ;)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: JPierreD on February 20, 2012, 07:36:19 PM
If that "consorting with Daimons", or "accepting a truce with them" is known, I don't think it would end well at all for Hvrek.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Psyche on February 20, 2012, 08:10:23 PM
That's the beauty, he's not.  As far as Riombara though, nobody seems to care much what's going on unless the daimons come. 
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Anaris on February 20, 2012, 08:22:31 PM
Liara would care more if she had more of an inkling that things are not going as Delvin would want them to...

...and if I had more time ;D
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: fodder on February 20, 2012, 08:25:19 PM
Nah, it's just clearly stating the obvious. :P

heh. clearly didn't look up the diplo page

.. only thing obvious is link between chenier family and daimons. no way around that.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: vonGenf on February 21, 2012, 02:03:33 PM
Quote
The forces from Enweil brace as they prepare to defend their ongoing takeover.
The region owner Netherworld and their allies attack the takeover forces.
The confederates from Imperskoe Viys'ko iz Fheuv'na join the defense.

Quote
The forces from Riombara brace as they prepare to defend their ongoing takeover.
The region owner Netherworld and their allies attack the takeover forces.
The confederates from Imperskoe Viys'ko iz Fheuv'na join the attacking forces.

Ah-ah!
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on February 21, 2012, 05:15:26 PM
So besides me, which rulers shared with their realm Overlord's most recent and interesting message?

To summarize:

The daimons have mapped the sea routes to the other islands (dun-dun-DUUUUUUNNNNNN!) and once they're done with BT...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chaotrance13 on February 21, 2012, 05:20:54 PM
So besides me, which rulers shared with their realm Overlord's most recent and interesting message?

To summarize:

The daimons have mapped the sea routes to the other islands (dun-dun-DUUUUUUNNNNNN!) and once they're done with BT...

Not us, at least not yet.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on February 21, 2012, 05:32:30 PM
For those of you who are interested:

Quote
Letter from Overlord   (8 hours, 10 minutes ago)
Message sent to the Rulers of Beluaterra (9 recipients)
Oh, please, Guillaume, don't give me credit, it feels like an insult coming from your mouth.

You are a traitor and a coward, the exact kind of being that the Netherworld despises most. I had to reign in my minions who were about to take your realm out, because I had promised to finish Enweil first.

But even where you give credit, you are mistaken. My goal was never make you pathetic creatures tear at each other, that was just for my entertainment. No, all this has been going on for so long because I needed time and distraction for my spies. By now we have mapped out your sea routes and we know where we will find the other islands that your race inhabits. And once we are done with you here, we will take those as well.

Overlord

Makes me wonder which island will be first. Hopefully not one of the ones I like.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chaotrance13 on February 21, 2012, 06:30:38 PM
This could be trickery, of course. I'd take it with a pinch of salt, at least until we have a clearer picture of the invasion's aftermath.

...But that said? I hope they come to EC first. It'll liven things up a fair bit.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Marlboro on February 21, 2012, 07:54:43 PM
Overlord hinted that he was going to travel to the other continents after he killed BT towards the very beginning of the invasion. By sea, even.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Zakilevo on February 21, 2012, 10:02:06 PM
time for Atamara or Dwilight to sink next hehe
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Gustav Kuriga on February 21, 2012, 11:03:28 PM
This is something I would not want happening at all. If people want invasions, they go to Beluaterra. Why do you think people were in such an uproar over in Dwilight? It's a bad idea to launch an invasion on a non-invasion continent.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on February 22, 2012, 12:34:16 AM
Well, an IC threat from Overlord is not the same as an OOC announcement from Tom. Besides, we might stop him.

...

Ok, I'm done laughing now.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on February 22, 2012, 12:36:09 AM
This is something I would not want happening at all. If people want invasions, they go to Beluaterra. Why do you think people were in such an uproar over in Dwilight? It's a bad idea to launch an invasion on a non-invasion continent.

I dislike most other continents, but I have to agree. I didn't like mortality being imposed on BT, and I wouldn't consider it any more fair to have invaders imposed on the others.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: GoldPanda on February 22, 2012, 01:12:06 AM
time for Atamara or Dwilight to sink next hehe
The smart money would be on the "boring" islands: EC and FEI.

Maybe this is the replacement for TMP. If you island stagnates, Overlord pays you a visit.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: De-Legro on February 22, 2012, 01:17:29 AM
The smart money would be on the "boring" islands: EC and FEI.

Maybe this is the replacement for TMP. If you island stagnates, Overlord pays you a visit.

EC is just winding up destroying one of the islands largest realms in the south, and only recently ended a multi year war in the north that has seen a realm destroyed, and realm reduced to almost nothing and a new colony formed. How exactly is that "boring" FEI on the other hand has exactly one war running, and the way the rest of the realms act there won't be another one until Arcaea has finished this one and looks for its next bout of fun.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Anaris on February 22, 2012, 01:38:21 AM
The smart money would be on the "boring" islands: EC and FEI.

Maybe this is the replacement for TMP. If you island stagnates, Overlord pays you a visit.

No, the smart money would be on the other island that actually has the code in place to handle it: Dwilight.

Unless this is what's behind Tom's push to get the testing code moved to stable.....
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on February 22, 2012, 01:45:38 AM
No, the smart money would be on the other island that actually has the code in place to handle it: Dwilight.

Unless this is what's behind Tom's push to get the testing code moved to stable.....

And screw over BM's continent with the best retention?

Way to throw away the game.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: De-Legro on February 22, 2012, 01:59:54 AM
And screw over BM's continent with the best retention?

Way to throw away the game.

Could be interesting, perhaps the Zuma would stand with us against the over Diamons, or perhaps not.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on February 22, 2012, 02:05:26 AM
Could be interesting, perhaps the Zuma would stand with us against the over Diamons, or perhaps not.

An epic battle to the death, where they both die off.

I'd be okay with that.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: De-Legro on February 22, 2012, 02:06:59 AM
An epic battle to the death, where they both die off.

I'd be okay with that.

I agree, and it should take place in D'Hara, as the central location of the continent.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Indirik on February 22, 2012, 02:53:58 AM
Zuma: Nightmarch
Overlord: Balance's Retreat

Fight!

:P
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: De-Legro on February 22, 2012, 02:56:38 AM
Zuma: Nightmarch
Overlord: Balance's Retreat

Fight!

:P

I for one support our new Overlord and shall happily march west at his command.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on February 22, 2012, 10:21:40 AM
Maybe you all should take that discussion IC and have your characters go "FUUUUUCK! We need to send whatever support we can to BT right NOW. And we need to kick those people in their lazy behinds and tell them to win this thing and not come whining over here when they get beaten. Announce the ports closed to any BT refugees, these guys need to fight and win, not run away. In fact, send a note to the judge to deport any and all prisoners to BT."

Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Sypher on February 22, 2012, 10:52:47 AM
Meh, my character on Beluaterra saw the letter and doesn't believe it (and said so IC). My character's position is that all Daimons are untrustworthy and everything they say should be considered suspicious.

Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: De-Legro on February 22, 2012, 11:13:56 AM
Maybe you all should take that discussion IC and have your characters go "FUUUUUCK! We need to send whatever support we can to BT right NOW. And we need to kick those people in their lazy behinds and tell them to win this thing and not come whining over here when they get beaten. Announce the ports closed to any BT refugees, these guys need to fight and win, not run away. In fact, send a note to the judge to deport any and all prisoners to BT."

That was happening on FEI. Unfortunately is was Matt that was driving it and he is far to busy now. There was talk about somehow sending a combined military force over to BT.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on February 22, 2012, 12:24:42 PM
That was happening on FEI. Unfortunately is was Matt that was driving it and he is far to busy now. There was talk about somehow sending a combined military force over to BT.

I would LOVE to see something like that.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on February 22, 2012, 03:55:31 PM
It would just be nobles though, not exactly an army, since the emigration mechanics do not support such things. Still, I can roll with that suggestion. It's worth bringing up anyway, though at the moment I too am a bit busy to be trying to organize a multi-realm effort to send aid to BT.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Indirik on February 22, 2012, 04:55:20 PM
Not only can you only send nobles, you can only send nobles with very little gold, since you lose most of it in emigration.

While more nobles would help, it won't cure all the problems.

As far as the letter goes, my character has not yet seen it.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: GoldPanda on February 22, 2012, 06:43:25 PM
Maybe you all should take that discussion IC and have your characters go "FUUUUUCK! We need to send whatever support we can to BT right NOW. And we need to kick those people in their lazy behinds and tell them to win this thing and not come whining over here when they get beaten. Announce the ports closed to any BT refugees, these guys need to fight and win, not run away. In fact, send a note to the judge to deport any and all prisoners to BT."

Whatever happened to encouraging families to act like collections of blood-bound nobles, rather than hive-minds, Tom?  >:(

Nobles who have not been to Beluaterra or Dwilight have never been on the same island with a Daimon before, and have heard a few rumors or stories at most. They would probably tell their relatives to suck it up and deal with their overgrown Monsters problem.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Gustav Kuriga on February 22, 2012, 08:00:36 PM
Maybe you all should take that discussion IC and have your characters go "FUUUUUCK! We need to send whatever support we can to BT right NOW. And we need to kick those people in their lazy behinds and tell them to win this thing and not come whining over here when they get beaten. Announce the ports closed to any BT refugees, these guys need to fight and win, not run away. In fact, send a note to the judge to deport any and all prisoners to BT."

Just would like to say if this is your attitude towards this, then get ready to lose a ton of players when they find out that not being on BT isn't good enough to stay out of the Invasion-style of play.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Sonya on February 22, 2012, 09:36:10 PM
Why do prople fear invasions?

If weren't for the selfness of some BT´s rulers the Daimons wouldn't had a chance, i would say Good Luck to Lord Overlord if he thinks he can overrun Atamara's Political Force.




Peace!
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Telrunya on February 22, 2012, 09:37:12 PM
Heh, because half of Atamara wouldn't be at all pleased seeing CE struggle and fall before the Daimons before moving in to help them :P
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on February 22, 2012, 09:46:14 PM
Until Tom actually announces OOC that he'll bring the Invasion to other islands, I would tend to view this more as an effort to attract more players to the Invasion event going on already and engage new people who will (hopefully) raise the activity level on BT a bit.

I feel a little bad about not being more invested in the current Invasion myself since its clear that Tom is putting a lot of effort into it, but I don't know. I have found it difficult to get that interested in it. The Fourth Invasion really destroyed my interest in the actual Invasion experience, but I do really enjoy the characters I have on BT and the way that the Invasions kind of 'reset' things, so I've stayed. It's pretty much impossible for the kind of enduring and seemingly immovable power blocs that form on AT and EC to come together and last when every year or two an Invasion comes through and completely upends the balance of power, and I very much enjoy the opportunities they create.

I have far less to complain about this Invasion compared to the last one, yet it has still failed to really grab me... It just doesn't feel like there's anything I can really *do* beyond sharing information and coordinating with other realms where possible. I have been doing that to an extent, but then there's a reason that I don't have any Marshal/General characters anymore, and its because I got tired of exactly that kind of having to constantly share and coordinate things and be*on* all the time. I just don't have the time and energy to do that much anymore...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Thunthorn on February 22, 2012, 09:50:28 PM
Some sort of Invasion like event on EC would be invigoriating in my opinion...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: James on February 22, 2012, 10:41:58 PM
My character in Fissoa has been made aware of the letter from Overlord, my character in Sint has heard nothing of it... Something seems very wrong there...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Marlboro on February 22, 2012, 11:46:55 PM
Heh, because half of Atamara wouldn't be at all pleased seeing CE struggle and fall before the Daimons before moving in to help them :P

Overlord picks off the bickering rogue nations before he goes after the power blocs because he's smart, so it'd probably be the opposite way around on AT.

Though I admit I'd like to see some really grudging RPs as former Darkans and Carelians struggle to defend Calis from the horde.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: De-Legro on February 22, 2012, 11:54:31 PM
Overlord picks off the bickering rogue nations before he goes after the power blocs because he's smart, so it'd probably be the opposite way around on AT.

Though I admit I'd like to see some really grudging RPs as former Darkans and Carelians struggle to defend Calis from the horde.

Either way the result is the same. The CE block fighting alone against Overlord :) Just in one case the other realms are still around to enjoy the spectacle.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Telrunya on February 23, 2012, 12:10:57 AM
Overlord does like to put up a show, after all. He's considerate like that.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Marlboro on February 23, 2012, 12:30:30 AM
Yeah, but probably swollen with people from enemy realms who hate them, thus causing the afterparty to look an awful lot like the Red Wedding.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: De-Legro on February 23, 2012, 12:32:44 AM
Overlord does like to put up a show, after all. He's considerate like that.

Yeah I think really Overlord wanted to be an actor, but the netherworld doesn't have theatres. The pain of not being able to live out his dramatic dreams has resulted in his callous aggressiveness. So really to stop the invasion you guys need to build some sort of impressive theatre and give Overlord the lead role in a series of plays.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Vellos on February 23, 2012, 03:37:14 AM
Maybe you all should take that discussion IC and have your characters go "FUUUUUCK! We need to send whatever support we can to BT right NOW. And we need to kick those people in their lazy behinds and tell them to win this thing and not come whining over here when they get beaten. Announce the ports closed to any BT refugees, these guys need to fight and win, not run away. In fact, send a note to the judge to deport any and all prisoners to BT."

lol

My character's response (it hasn't been shared with Riombara yet, but he heard about it through other channels) was:

"Well, sounds like it's about time to board ship and leave! Bet I can stay ahead of the daimons!"

Realistically, I doubt I'm the only player who gets a thrill out of watching the blight spread, and watching ancient power blocs be hammered into tiny bits.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: JPierreD on February 23, 2012, 03:48:31 AM
My character in Fissoa has been made aware of the letter from Overlord, my character in Sint has heard nothing of it... Something seems very wrong there...

Same thing with my character in Pian en Luries knowing before the one in Riombara. Needless to say, my Riombaran character is very angry at her ruler.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on February 23, 2012, 04:51:58 AM
Same thing with my character in Pian en Luries knowing before the one in Riombara. Needless to say, my Riombaran character is very angry at her ruler.

A pity you aren't in Fheuv'n. You'd have known as soon as Overlord sent it.

Funny how these democratish realms of "high values" like to keep their nobles in the dark about key events and messages?

I get the impression that the rulers who share the most info are those who have the least, where as the rulers with the most info keep it all to themselves.

Personally, I've accepted this invasion as a defeat since day one. I don't feel like there's the slightest thing I can do about the daimons, since they took our old capital as soon as we took a new city and our economy is crap, so I have my fun by lecturing the others about how its all their fault this is all happening.

And comment funny stuff how like Soren accused Guillaume of being a traitor a week ago for offering to give a new home to Enweilians, while he is now planning to join Daimon Worship and mocking how I'd make a fuss about it.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on February 23, 2012, 05:34:59 PM
Hvrek doesn't share squat with Riombara, but that's what we get for electing him in the first place. He was one of those guys who always ran for everything but never campaigned. After Jethro resigned no one stepped forward so Hvrek was elected by default.

Tlerunya announced he's going to run this time around though, so I predict that you will not be seeing Hvrek around for much longer.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: vonGenf on February 23, 2012, 07:31:32 PM
Not true. There two guys.  8)

The referendum "Vote for the Ruler" has ended. Here is the final tally:

    44 votes for Hvrek
    24 votes for Jos
    0 abstentions
    88 votes were not cast
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Zakilevo on February 23, 2012, 07:37:43 PM
clearly shows nobles of Riombara are fine with their ruler not sharing messages.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Telrunya on February 23, 2012, 07:54:26 PM
Don't think he'll survive next elections :)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on February 23, 2012, 08:46:21 PM
Not true. There two guys.  8)

The referendum "Vote for the Ruler" has ended. Here is the final tally:

    44 votes for Hvrek
    24 votes for Jos
    0 abstentions
    88 votes were not cast

Yeah but Jos doesn't have a tongue and is illiterate (if I remember right?)... that makes the campaigning part of elections pretty difficult. ;)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Psyche on February 23, 2012, 10:59:50 PM
Hvrek has shared some info, but he's selective.  it's the harder to manipulate if everyone knows everything.  Hvrek would never have been able to attack Enweil and draw the daimons north, for example, if he were to deliver all news.

Either way, Hvrek has agenda to keep the south alive and free-   Riombaran or not.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: JPierreD on February 24, 2012, 01:46:20 AM
Hvrek has shared some info, but he's selective.  it's the harder to manipulate if everyone knows everything.  Hvrek would never have been able to attack Enweil and draw the daimons north, for example, if he were to deliver all news.

Either way, Hvrek has agenda to keep the south alive and free-   Riombaran or not.

He has yet to justify attacking Enweil, and that may cost him the seat, and possibly even more, since he is being accused of breaking the law.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Psyche on February 24, 2012, 05:13:02 AM
Hvrek didn't attack though.  He simply lowered relations.  He's only fortunate that they started a TO over Lopa, and Marche gave very little warning to them.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: fodder on February 24, 2012, 09:05:50 AM
well... the name of the religion is... order of alluran..  so obviously it's alluran clique with their own agenda.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Iltaran on February 24, 2012, 11:13:18 AM
The north endures!

Wait, maybe that's not such a good slogan...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Draco Tanos on February 24, 2012, 01:33:13 PM
Winter Is Coming?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on February 24, 2012, 06:28:15 PM
Winter Is Coming?

Winter is coming... to Hell.

Or "DIE DAIMONS DIE"
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Velax on February 24, 2012, 06:42:37 PM
"Welcome to Beluahella"?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Calanar on February 24, 2012, 11:52:53 PM
Welcome to Beluaterra: There's plenty of beer and fighting to go around.

or

Welcome to Beluaterra: Carry a bucket of water, because there be Daimons here!

 ;D Can I dump a bucket of water on Overlord's head?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Marlboro on February 24, 2012, 11:57:09 PM
If that's how you kill him I am going to freaking die.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Telrunya on February 25, 2012, 12:00:00 AM
We're sinking Overlord's ship as soon as he sets sail for another Continent, that has been the plan all along.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Calanar on February 25, 2012, 12:12:01 AM
Maybe Tom is secretly trying to get us to re-enact the Wizard of Oz, and we don't know it.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Velax on February 25, 2012, 07:48:15 AM
"I'll get you, my Enweil, and your little Fheuv'n too!"
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: James on February 25, 2012, 09:06:23 AM
Maybe Tom is secretly trying to get us to re-enact the Wizard of Oz, and we don't know it.

That would explain the flying monkeys...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Thunthorn on February 25, 2012, 09:54:32 AM
I thought that we were the flying monkies and that Overlord is Dorothy looking for his Soulforged Silver Slippers of the Maiden so he can go home to the Netherworld.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Iltaran on February 25, 2012, 10:06:24 AM
I thought that we were the flying monkies and that Overlord is Dorothy looking for his Soulforged Silver Slippers of the Maiden so he can go home to the Netherworld.

If anyone throws themselves off a tower to try and fly, I'm blaming you.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Draco Tanos on February 25, 2012, 11:41:07 AM
So.  There are several things I've noticed.

1.  When Overlord is in trouble/captured, he seemingly assumes the body of a minion.

2.  He abducts humans and turns them into armor.

This leads me to one conclusion.  Overlord is a Reaper.

Why can I just picture Overlord saying "I am assuming direct control"?

Mass Effect fans will understand. >.>
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: James on February 25, 2012, 11:52:36 AM
This leads me to one conclusion.  Overlord is a Reaper.

Why can I just picture Overlord saying "I am assuming direct control"?

Mass Effect fans will understand. >.>

It's all just some promotional ploy preparing us for two week's time!
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Iltaran on February 25, 2012, 12:08:24 PM
Damnit, now I'm going to be disappointed when Overlord's final words aren't "I am Overlord, and this continent is MINE!"
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chaotrance13 on February 25, 2012, 01:42:27 PM
All hail our Sovereign Overlord.

...Wait. Sovereign got smashed.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Naidraug on February 25, 2012, 02:25:49 PM
After combat Overlord will say "I am Overlord and this is my favorite continent in Battlemaster" ?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on February 25, 2012, 05:53:37 PM
You're all taking this very lightly, given that BT now has 102 regions blighted, i.e. more than half of the island is already lost.

Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Telrunya on February 25, 2012, 06:02:31 PM
It's humanity's way to try to convince ourselves it's not the end of the world yet. Because if we can joke about it, surely it's not that bad, right? right? right?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on February 25, 2012, 06:21:19 PM
right?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chaotrance13 on February 25, 2012, 06:43:12 PM
You're all taking this very lightly, given that BT now has 102 regions blighted, i.e. more than half of the island is already lost.

Begone, blasphemer! Our rose-tinted glasses (or visors if you're wearing a helmet) will protect us!
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on February 25, 2012, 06:57:03 PM
You're all taking this very lightly, given that BT now has 102 regions blighted, i.e. more than half of the island is already lost.

Well, none of us really know what else to do so... Martinis anyone?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: James on February 25, 2012, 07:03:16 PM
You're all taking this very lightly, given that BT now has 102 regions blighted, i.e. more than half of the island is already lost.

With the complete lack of information my character is getting, clearly there isn't that much to be bothered about. When, on questioning, our ruler says the only message they've had of any interest to anyone else was when they were General 12 days ago. None of the recent stuff, apparently, is worth telling anyone else about...

...and though I can in some ways understand the point of view of not spreading enemy propaganda, it does take away a lot of the interest that all players should be able to have in the invasion.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Velax on February 25, 2012, 07:03:47 PM
Well, none of us really know what else to do so... Martinis anyone?

Shaken, not stirred.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on February 25, 2012, 10:23:51 PM
With the complete lack of information my character is getting, clearly there isn't that much to be bothered about. When, on questioning, our ruler says the only message they've had of any interest to anyone else was when they were General 12 days ago. None of the recent stuff, apparently, is worth telling anyone else about...

...and though I can in some ways understand the point of view of not spreading enemy propaganda, it does take away a lot of the interest that all players should be able to have in the invasion.

Actually in all fairness Overlord has been very quiet for a while now. Other than that little tidbit about having found the sea lanes to the other islands he hasn't said boo lately.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Eithad on February 25, 2012, 10:43:21 PM
Daimons are losing battles or running from battles left and right, I see no reason to be concerned.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Sypher on February 26, 2012, 05:21:18 AM
I wouldn't go that far, I'm sure Overlord has more tricks up his sleeve. But there isn't much more we can do besides defeating the armies and killing the priests.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on February 26, 2012, 05:49:25 AM
You're all taking this very lightly, given that BT now has 102 regions blighted, i.e. more than half of the island is already lost.

Didn't we start off the invasion that way?

Personally, my dude's been claiming we were all doomed since even before the invasion began. That's why, as a guy convinced he has nothing to lose anyways, he just decided he was fet up with it all and declared war on Rio before they could sneak a trojan horse on us.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on February 26, 2012, 05:54:12 AM
Since I know many rulers don't share hoot, here's the scoop for any who cares:

Quote
Letter from Guillaume Chénier   (9 minutes ago)
Message sent to the human rulers of Beluaterra (8 recipients)
I have gathered enough proof. Enough with the games.

Riombara is marching an army against Fheuv'n. If you enter our lands, we will fight you.

We will not, for now, chase you into your own lands. Despite the declaration of war, I still have better things to do. But if truly Riombara wants nothing else than to satisfy it's petty agenda to crush all Enweili, then at least it'll be out in the open. You insiduously attacked Enweil after lowering relations with them yourself, passed a well-planned attack as an "accident". You are not going to do the same in Fheuv'n.

Riombara is a greater threat to humanity than the daimons ever were. Stay in your lands and out of where you don't belong. Your hidden war against Fheuv'n has reached its final straw.

Guillaume Chénier
Hetman of Imperskoe Viys'ko iz Fheuv'na, Duke of Iato, Senator of Iato, Ambassador of Imperskoe Viys'ko iz Fheuv'na

Basically, it's a declaration of war but we won't move to attack. If battle occurs, you know who made it happen. I'm just making sure they don't sneak into Fheuvenem without us being able to use our walls.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lefanis on February 26, 2012, 06:52:38 AM
So far I'm thinking the theme may be fear. Overlord has been trying to psyche out the realms he attacks all the time, and using those spells to cause fear in the peasantry as well.

And if parallels are to made with games, I'd say BT is Skyrim. Overlord is the dragonlike world eater. He gains power from the souls of the dead. (Sovngarde)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on February 26, 2012, 10:03:28 AM
Didn't we start off the invasion that way?

No, 8 regions have been blighted since the invasion began.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on February 26, 2012, 03:40:28 PM
No, 8 regions have been blighted since the invasion began.

A 7.8% increase.

Key regions, mind you, but mostly in the South where the blight was already all around.
So far I'm thinking the theme may be fear. Overlord has been trying to psyche out the realms he attacks all the time, and using those spells to cause fear in the peasantry as well.

And if parallels are to made with games, I'd say BT is Skyrim. Overlord is the dragonlike world eater. He gains power from the souls of the dead. (Sovngarde)

Fear is what we figure his objective is. Daimons come rampaging in Fheuv'n every now and then, looting a bit and moving on. Feels more like bullying than an attempt to kill.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on February 26, 2012, 04:36:20 PM
A 7.8% increase.

But a tipping point. It was less than half when the invasion started. It is more than half now.

And I'm not done yet. :-)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on February 26, 2012, 05:23:02 PM
But a tipping point. It was less than half when the invasion started. It is more than half now.

And I'm not done yet. :-)

Indeed.

We should run wagers on how long 'till it's all gone. :P
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: JPierreD on February 27, 2012, 04:23:13 AM
So far I'm thinking the theme may be fear. Overlord has been trying to psyche out the realms he attacks all the time, and using those spells to cause fear in the peasantry as well.

And if parallels are to made with games, I'd say BT is Skyrim. Overlord is the dragonlike world eater. He gains power from the souls of the dead. (Sovngarde)

That is my character's theory, but we still have to discover a way to counter that. She presented a plan for the Riombaran Military Council to test, but we will see if it does help. I kinda doubt it.

We are also chasing the artifacts to enter and leave he blight that the human priests of Daimon Worship carry, and trying to see if we can use them as well, but it has been suggested they could only be used by Daimon worshipers. If that proves true, we will probably be divided between those willing to make such sacrifice (which to me is the same as surrendering, for though joining a religion for us is just a click away, for a character it should imply he would have to actually worship them), and those refusing it and looking for other alternatives.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Yorkie on February 27, 2012, 10:54:44 AM
But a tipping point. It was less than half when the invasion started. It is more than half now.

And I'm not done yet. :-)

Not exactly like we can do a whole lot about it.

I mean honestly. No one has said anything about removing the blight [that I know of anyways], so pretty much the only way to deal with the blight is to prevent it from happening. Generically that can only happen when you completely defeat an army. So far as far as I can tell the only group that's managed to do so is the Northern Alliance, hence the lack of progress in blighting the northern lands.

Kind of a weighted average. I don't know much about the southern states, but if the north was any indication, they probably weren't in the best of condition at the beginning of the latest invasion anyways. The North was gang...ing up on Fronen, but for the most part those differences were relatively easy to get past so we could kill stuff that was bigger than us. I don't think the south really had that luxury of not being backstabbed by eachother.

On a separate note, I'm pretty sure just stepping on the field gains my cavalier honor. It's almost amusing. Doesn't really matter if he was actually involved in the fighting [one battle he was stuck on the wrong side of a wall and didn't see any combat]. I have this mental image of a guy standing with his arms akimbo in full plate armor with a flag waving in the background with a pair of bards humming "da da daaaaaaah"
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on February 27, 2012, 12:40:02 PM
Not exactly like we can do a whole lot about it.

Wrong. Fortunately for you, or all would be lost. It's not really looking well, at this time I'd say the chances are 50/50 that BT is going down in flames.

But of course Overlord isn't telling you when you give him a setback. He'd be stupid to admit any weaknesses, and since there is little follow-up on anything, most people never realize.

Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Iltaran on February 27, 2012, 01:45:12 PM
Strangely enough the North probably benefitted from being more unified and from being more divided than the South. Nothoi, Old Grehk, Sint and Thalmarkin were already fighting together, everyone basically considers Soren a good guy and that just left Fronen, who were understandably keen to get inside the tent. So obviously there was the structure for an alliance. But at the same time, if anyone broke the united front, they were going to have five very angry neighbours. By contrast in the south there's two sides that will inevitably clash.

Anyway, as I see it, we "just" need to hold out up north for long enough to work out how to go on the offensive. Has anyone actually managed to get their hands on an artifact yet?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on February 27, 2012, 01:59:51 PM
On a separate note, I'm pretty sure just stepping on the field gains my cavalier honor. It's almost amusing. Doesn't really matter if he was actually involved in the fighting [one battle he was stuck on the wrong side of a wall and didn't see any combat]. I have this mental image of a guy standing with his arms akimbo in full plate armor with a flag waving in the background with a pair of bards humming "da da daaaaaaah"

I'm pretty sure that's how it works. Cavaliers gain 1 honor every battle, minimum. Hence why they usually have tonloads of it.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Indirik on February 27, 2012, 02:37:43 PM
I mean honestly. No one has said anything about removing the blight [that I know of anyways]
There have been messages passed about ways to travel through the blight. So far as I know, no one has actually managed to accomplish it yet, though. Given what you supposedly have to do to accomplish it, I don't see it being any kind of overly useful thing.

Has anyone actually managed to get their hands on an artifact yet?
What kind of artifact is that?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on February 27, 2012, 04:18:08 PM
One of the human priests of daimon worship told a judge that you can traverse the blight if you undergo a ritual performed by a priest of daimon worship and carry an artifact imbued with daimonic power. The assumption has been that this is some type of unique item that can theoretically be taken off of one of these priests by a judge.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Marlboro on February 27, 2012, 05:51:55 PM
Or maybe one of the terrorists.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Indirik on February 27, 2012, 07:59:09 PM
But, you'd still need the ritual, right? Unless the artifact is the key, and the ritual is just a smokescreen...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Yorkie on February 27, 2012, 10:11:54 PM
Wait...so we can't just stab the blight to nonexistence?...

Laaame.

Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: De-Legro on February 27, 2012, 10:13:14 PM
Or the whole thing is a smoke screen. Overlord seems to have been mostly truthful, can the same be said for the rest of the Daimon leaders?

Wait...so we can't just stab the blight to nonexistence?...

Laaame.



What are you talking about?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on February 27, 2012, 11:58:56 PM
Rio's ruler protested out of office.

Interesting.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Zakilevo on February 28, 2012, 12:16:39 AM
Didn't they just reelect him?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on February 28, 2012, 12:43:53 AM
Didn't they just reelect him?

Doubtful, regular elections start in a few days. Albeit possible.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on February 28, 2012, 02:30:19 AM
He admitted some of what he'd done after a few small inquiries/protests, then appointed himself Marquis and Duke of Fwuvoghor and started manufacturing random Duchies like a drunken monkey. Which led to much larger protests as you might imagine.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: De-Legro on February 28, 2012, 02:39:01 AM
He admitted some of what he'd done after a few small inquiries/protests, then appointed himself Marquis and Duke of Fwuvoghor and started manufacturing random Duchies like a drunken monkey. Which led to much larger protests as you might imagine.

Yeah, such a surprise. Did no one suspect that this might happen when you elected him? We are talking about the player that used the fact that the Ruler of Alluran was a knight in one Duchy to dispose her. RTO the city of the Duchy with one character, secede and force the ruler into the new realm, take over the realm with the other character, then "reconcile" the difference with the character that performed the RTO to bring the city back into the realm.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on February 28, 2012, 02:48:08 AM
Yeah, such a surprise. Did no one suspect that this might happen when you elected him? We are talking about the player that used the fact that the Ruler of Alluran was a knight in one Duchy to dispose her. RTO the city of the Duchy with one character, secede and force the ruler into the new realm, take over the realm with the other character, then "reconcile" the difference with the character that performed the RTO to bring the city back into the realm.

Does it surprise me personally? Not at all, especially since I had the OOC luxury of seeing what he was up to in the Rulers' channel with my other character. In truth he would never have been elected except that after Jethro unexpectedly resigned, he was the only one who ran for the position. I was not at all interested in ruling Riombara at the time for OOC reasons, and I assume that Tan_Serrai probably felt the same way. Don't know why Fleugs or Telrunya didn't throw their hats in though; they certainly are now.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: JPierreD on February 28, 2012, 03:56:29 AM
Yeah, such a surprise. Did no one suspect that this might happen when you elected him? We are talking about the player that used the fact that the Ruler of Alluran was a knight in one Duchy to dispose her. RTO the city of the Duchy with one character, secede and force the ruler into the new realm, take over the realm with the other character, then "reconcile" the difference with the character that performed the RTO to bring the city back into the realm.

Did Hvrek participate into any of this? Because if he did not, judging him by that would be pretty OoC...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Indirik on February 28, 2012, 04:08:53 AM
Those kinds of stunts are a family trademark. Anyone who has spent time in the same realm as them will understand.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: JPierreD on February 28, 2012, 04:58:33 AM
I can understand two families having feuds against each other, but to my recently arrived character hearing that the cousin and brother of Lord Kepler were madmen means, well, pretty much nothing. I as a player know that people usually make very similar characters, but having my character assume that a noble has the same personality as the rest of his family seems... odd, at the very least.

But then, this is when things start getting personal and player/character separation thins. I'd rather not see that happening.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: De-Legro on February 28, 2012, 05:08:24 AM
Did Hvrek participate into any of this? Because if he did not, judging him by that would be pretty OoC...

Impossible for Hvrek to do any of that personally, since the family was locked and the current family is a recreation. Can't recall the old family having a character named Hvrek, but I could be wrong. But as Indirik has said, this is pretty standard behaviour from the "family". Just ask players from the colonies.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Telrunya on February 28, 2012, 06:36:57 AM
Fleugs and my character were going to throw our hats in the upcoming Elections no matter what. Probably why Hvrek decided to make his move, he knew he would not be reelected no matter what. Even if he had still hidden his friendly chats with the Overlord, enough information had come out to make his position crumble.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Indirik on February 28, 2012, 01:58:00 PM
I can understand two families having feuds against each other, but to my recently arrived character hearing that the cousin and brother of Lord Kepler were madmen means, well, pretty much nothing. I as a player know that people usually make very similar characters, but having my character assume that a noble has the same personality as the rest of his family seems... odd, at the very least.
If Kepler stabs you in the back, Kepler's brother punches you in the face, Kepler's son sleeps with your wife, Kepler's cousin gets your under-age daughter pregnant, Kepler's horse kicks you in the family jewels, and Kepler's dog bites your leg, are you going to walk up to Kepler's cat and say "Here kitty, want to lick this delicious beef gravy off of my fingers?"

Eventually, you just have to realize that no matter what member you're dealing with, they are going to betray you. And if that's based on the experience of your character/family, then that's fine. There's nothing wrong with a family grudge or two.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on February 28, 2012, 02:01:01 PM
Fleugs and my character were going to throw our hats in the upcoming Elections no matter what. Probably why Hvrek decided to make his move, he knew he would not be reelected no matter what. Even if he had still hidden his friendly chats with the Overlord, enough information had come out to make his position crumble.

Overlord liked him better than me. I just mentionned to him I'd be willing to takeover Enweil, and he spilled the beans. He never said anything about Hvrek being friendly to him.

Nobody likes me. :(

No wonder Guillaume is an enweili supremacist. ;)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Psyche on February 28, 2012, 03:45:29 PM
Haha.  I like that, Rob.  It's definitely true though.  I play more or less the whole family as very greedy, opportunistic antagonists.  They can be very skilled and useful in some ways, but they are quick to try and jump into power with little to no support.   After all, somebody has to liven things up.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on February 28, 2012, 08:08:12 PM
Quote
Roleplaying Event   (1 hour ago)
Message sent to everyone in the vicinity of Enweilieos (15 recipients)
The dark clouds that are covering the city of Enweilieos are slowly lifting, drifting out to see or washing away. The city is not yet visible again, but word all around is that the clouds are moving back.

Event Dummy

Wooot.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Telrunya on February 28, 2012, 08:23:46 PM
Sooooo 101 regions to go?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on February 28, 2012, 08:32:23 PM
It hasn't been unblighted yet... But at least the Event Dummy brings some good news for once. :)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Telrunya on February 28, 2012, 08:33:30 PM
No? I can only see the Dynamic Map from here, and the Blight is no longer there. Perhaps it takes some time for the Blight to fully lift.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on February 28, 2012, 08:40:35 PM
Hm. It's unblighted on some zoom-levels of the dynamic map for me, on others it isn't...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: fodder on February 28, 2012, 09:35:49 PM
still can't click on the region... so...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on February 29, 2012, 12:19:22 AM
still can't click on the region... so...

By my standards, that's the measure to take into consideration.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Darksun on February 29, 2012, 12:24:38 AM
So what was done to "unblight" the city?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on February 29, 2012, 12:33:20 AM
So what was done to "unblight" the city?

I'd say either the battles in the North have worn Overlord out, or Riombara managed to piss Enweil off enough to get a dose of her own medecine.

I'm hoping for the latter. Unfortunately, Enweil's rather silent. I wouldn't mind if Fheuv'n was crushed and we had to join Enweil if it meant payback against Riombara, though, after this whole episode. That Hvrek got protested out only because he appointed himself to a lordship, and not over the things that happened before, is gonna leave a mark in Rio-Enweili relations.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Sypher on February 29, 2012, 03:11:06 AM
Counting down to how it will now be used as further proof of Enweili superiority.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on February 29, 2012, 04:24:32 AM
I'd say either the battles in the North have worn Overlord out, or Riombara managed to piss Enweil off enough to get a dose of her own medecine.

I'm hoping for the latter. Unfortunately, Enweil's rather silent. I wouldn't mind if Fheuv'n was crushed and we had to join Enweil if it meant payback against Riombara, though, after this whole episode. That Hvrek got protested out only because he appointed himself to a lordship, and not over the things that happened before, is gonna leave a mark in Rio-Enweili relations.

Right, because everything was going *so* well before the Invasion...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Iltaran on February 29, 2012, 04:36:15 AM
Lets be honest here. Can anyone remember Rio-Enweili relations consisting of anything except deep suspision and outright hatred?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on February 29, 2012, 01:55:05 PM
Lets be honest here. Can anyone remember Rio-Enweili relations consisting of anything except deep suspision and outright hatred?

Yes, resentful cooperation.

Thank god Hvrek gave me all I needed to stop pursuing that path.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on February 29, 2012, 01:57:06 PM
Meh, we were quite happy to help Enweil against the daimons and I think Enweil was quite happy to have us.

Until of course Hvrek came along.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Telrunya on February 29, 2012, 01:58:28 PM
And now the South is all divided :P
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on February 29, 2012, 01:59:35 PM
Meh, we were quite happy to help Enweil against the daimons and I think Enweil was quite happy to have us.

Until of course Hvrek came along.

Precisely.

I mean, I cancelled the hatred declaration on Sint. That took a lot from Guillaume. I did it for the sake of pooling efforts to survive the invasion (which too many characters either seem to not care about or take for granted).

Now, though, I'm thinking about declared hatred on Rio instead.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Calanar on February 29, 2012, 03:57:23 PM
Tom, I just want to say congratulations. With this recent event in Enweil, I have even less of a clue as to what's happening in Beluaterra. I think my head hurts... :P
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Arrakis on February 29, 2012, 04:01:54 PM
Enweilios was unblighted by one of the sons. So, either the goal should be to have the sons "help" us (which is unlikely since they've already shown their treacherous nature) or the fact that the sons could possibly have some sort of "artifacts" that can unblight regions. The later seems more logical to me.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on February 29, 2012, 04:29:57 PM
Well according to Enweil, he did it only because Enweil agreed to allow daimon worship to be preached anywhere in Enweil without restriction. This suggests that Overlord gains something from having human worshippers.

Also, anyone see those very interesting scout reports of Weghie? There are three daimon commanders in there raising armies of *peasants*. 'Women and Children', 'Martyrs', etc.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Naidraug on February 29, 2012, 04:50:07 PM
Must be something to affect morale of our men, or with the current loses Overlord suffered, he doesn't have enough strength to summon more daimons
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Telrunya on February 29, 2012, 05:28:28 PM
Those must be those followers he can raise.

Enweil also had to raise relations to Neutral.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: fodder on February 29, 2012, 08:42:40 PM
probably fwuvoghor will see something similar and get to expand westwards?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on February 29, 2012, 11:34:32 PM
probably fwuvoghor will see something similar and get to expand westwards?

If Fwuvoghor gets a simlar deal and doesn't get crushed by its neighbours.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: De-Legro on March 01, 2012, 12:02:13 AM
If Fwuvoghor gets a simlar deal and doesn't get crushed by its neighbours.

Or until it turns out that letting the Daimon religion gain sway is even worse then the blight. Might just be me but if anyone at all linked to Overlord was offering to remove the blight, I would be very suspicious of what they ask for in return.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on March 01, 2012, 12:03:24 AM
If Fwuvoghor gets a simlar deal and doesn't get crushed by its neighbours.

Which it promptly will unless the daimons show up to bail it out.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on March 01, 2012, 02:54:31 AM
Or until it turns out that letting the Daimon religion gain sway is even worse then the blight. Might just be me but if anyone at all linked to Overlord was offering to remove the blight, I would be very suspicious of what they ask for in return.

Nothing is worse than getting beaten by Riombara.

And since Riombara was starting to annex Enweil's old lands, well... The means tend to justify the ends.

Fighting to prevent regions from getting blighted is one thing. Then getting backstabbed by your neighbor who then promptly seeks to annex your lost lands... Whole other game.

Guillaume, for one, was reluctantly willing to cooperate with Rio to defeat the daimons. Thanks to Hvrek, and the Riombarans who never stepped up to him until he appointed himself to a region, he couldn't care less about the daimons today. I'm getting a feeling that anti-Rio resent is probably pretty strong in Enweil today, but that's more of a hunch than anything.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: De-Legro on March 01, 2012, 03:01:55 AM
Nothing is worse than getting beaten by Riombara.

And since Riombara was starting to annex Enweil's old lands, well... The means tend to justify the ends.

Fighting to prevent regions from getting blighted is one thing. Then getting backstabbed by your neighbor who then promptly seeks to annex your lost lands... Whole other game.

Guillaume, for one, was reluctantly willing to cooperate with Rio to defeat the daimons. Thanks to Hvrek, and the Riombarans who never stepped up to him until he appointed himself to a region, he couldn't care less about the daimons today. I'm getting a feeling that anti-Rio resent is probably pretty strong in Enweil today, but that's more of a hunch than anything.

And if you find that the Priest are able to quickly convert the regions to Daimon Worship, and it turns out that is just another way to spread the blight, resulting in the blight spreading to not only the city you just reclaimed, but all the other regions as well will the end justify the means, particularly if all that happens before anyone is able to defeat Rio?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Psyche on March 01, 2012, 03:56:06 AM
Hvrek actually isn't collaborating with the Daimons; however, it doesn't mean he doesn't have contact with them.  Hvrek's more about personal gain and preserving it.  If he can do well on his own, he'll keep it that way.  If things get complicated, then you never know...

As much as everyone hates Hvrek though, he has one thing going for him-  the Order of Alluran.  Though Enweil has allowed daimon worship, the Order is the most prevalent faith in the south, unblighted regions at least.  Since the Order still views daimons as evil, it holds back a lot of their spreading.  This gives Hvrek a potentially very valuable bargaining chip to play if the Daimons want to spread the faith. 
The great thing is that Riombarans supported his tactics of just preaching and building shrines like hell in Enweil because when they arrested the priests it caused disorder in their realm.  With the large followings in and around Enweil, even their capitulation to Daimon Worship isn't as valuable or easy as you'd expect, though not to undermine it entirely.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on March 01, 2012, 05:54:31 AM
Hvrek actually isn't collaborating with the Daimons; however, it doesn't mean he doesn't have contact with them.  Hvrek's more about personal gain and preserving it.  If he can do well on his own, he'll keep it that way.  If things get complicated, then you never know...

As much as everyone hates Hvrek though, he has one thing going for him-  the Order of Alluran.  Though Enweil has allowed daimon worship, the Order is the most prevalent faith in the south, unblighted regions at least.  Since the Order still views daimons as evil, it holds back a lot of their spreading.  This gives Hvrek a potentially very valuable bargaining chip to play if the Daimons want to spread the faith. 
The great thing is that Riombarans supported his tactics of just preaching and building shrines like hell in Enweil because when they arrested the priests it caused disorder in their realm.  With the large followings in and around Enweil, even their capitulation to Daimon Worship isn't as valuable or easy as you'd expect, though not to undermine it entirely.

We can't support or refuse to support that which we don't know about. You never shared Guillaume's objections with anyone in Riombara, and I doubt any of us realized the extent of what your priests have been doing, at least not IC.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: fodder on March 01, 2012, 08:09:18 AM
Nothing is worse than getting beaten by Riombara.

And since Riombara was starting to annex Enweil's old lands, well... The means tend to justify the ends.

funny thing is... the only "old land" taken so to speak is Yncaalo. which was recently taken from daimons after enweilos was blighted. the rest were taken pre-invasion. (droxago, lopa)

so.. as usual... more propaganda to justify chenier daimon links.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on March 01, 2012, 01:59:27 PM
And if you find that the Priest are able to quickly convert the regions to Daimon Worship, and it turns out that is just another way to spread the blight, resulting in the blight spreading to not only the city you just reclaimed, but all the other regions as well will the end justify the means, particularly if all that happens before anyone is able to defeat Rio?

Then I'll have satisfaction in the fact that, surrounded by the blight, Rio has no chance.

I'd rather die to the daimons and fuel them in their rampage. BT deserves nothing better at this point.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: fodder on March 01, 2012, 02:14:47 PM
i'm sort of think refounding the religion i abandoned.. except i don't really fancy dealing with theology
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on March 01, 2012, 11:41:45 PM
i'm sort of think refounding the religion i abandoned.. except i don't really fancy dealing with theology

Like 90% of existing religions.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: fodder on March 02, 2012, 08:12:58 PM
hmm... daimons are TOing melegra which hasn't got any neighbouring daimon region?

or did i miss something about daimon TOs before? XD
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Indirik on March 02, 2012, 08:19:16 PM
All NPC factions have always been able to run TOs without needing adjacent regions.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on March 02, 2012, 11:24:40 PM
Looks like they're trying to blight Fwuvoghor  :'(

Fortunately, we're on to them.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on March 03, 2012, 01:53:56 AM
Looks like they're trying to blight Fwuvoghor  :'(

Fortunately, we're on to them.

So you'll let them do it? :P
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Vellos on March 03, 2012, 05:21:59 PM
Can somebody post a map of Beluaterra or something? With the political maps gone on testing, there's no way for the rest of us to spectate.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on March 03, 2012, 05:27:02 PM
Can somebody post a map of Beluaterra or something? With the political maps gone on testing, there's no way for the rest of us to spectate.

Flags aren't fixed onto the map, either...

That old map did serve a purpose. Any chance of having all three maps available?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on March 03, 2012, 05:51:45 PM
http://battlemaster.org/PoliticalMap.php?World=4

Looks like it doesn't really get updated though...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on March 03, 2012, 06:04:34 PM
Definitely not; a third of the South is gone right now; not much in the way of changes in the North however.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on March 03, 2012, 10:28:06 PM
Please write a feature request on the bugtracker to have the dynamic map available for other game-worlds, with no requirement to be logged in.

It can be coded, but it's a little bit of additional work. And some layers (diplomacy, etc.) make no sense without login.

Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Iltaran on March 04, 2012, 05:08:39 AM
http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/File:BT_4-3-12.png (http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/File:BT_4-3-12.png)

Didn't come out all that well, but shows how things are going at the moment.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on March 04, 2012, 04:40:21 PM
http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/File:BT_4-3-12.png (http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/File:BT_4-3-12.png)

Didn't come out all that well, but shows how things are going at the moment.

To sum it up: Everything, minus Enweil, is the same as before the invasion.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Thunthorn on March 04, 2012, 04:42:43 PM
Fronen has lost stuff as well.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on March 04, 2012, 05:01:28 PM
Fronen has lost stuff as well.

Barely. Two rurals?

Sure, that the path north-south is blighted is significant, but it relied on just one rural to begin with...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: De-Legro on March 05, 2012, 01:01:41 AM
To sum it up: Everything, minus Enweil, is the same as before the invasion.

Any yet you are the one convinced the war is already lost.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on March 05, 2012, 04:06:25 AM
Any yet you are the one convinced the war is already lost.

Of course.

If Enweil is lost, why would I do anything else than make sure everyone else is as well? ;)

But seriously, Enweil is a big, big loss. That realm had little borders with the blight, and ended up basically all blighted. And now it looks like it is time for whoever's next. I don't see why they'd do any better.

That being said, my opinion is based on the fact that Tom said there would be no deus ex machina this time.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Vellos on March 05, 2012, 05:42:58 AM
Did that region on IVF's far northern end get unblighted recently?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on March 05, 2012, 05:53:28 AM
Did that region on IVF's far northern end get unblighted recently?

Not that I'm aware of. Do you mean Eg Tutnu? We've just reclaimed it, but it was never blighted. We were just too busy with a ton of other things to reclaim it.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: fodder on March 06, 2012, 08:52:57 AM
Longbowmen (10) fire carefully into the close combat near them.
Longbowmen (10) fire on Black Daimons (23), scoring 413 hits.

cool.... doesn't do 10 dmg anymore..? or is it because they are big bastards?

(beat overlord XD)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Eithad on March 06, 2012, 09:47:15 AM
Black Daimons tend to suck, I don't know why.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Arrakis on March 06, 2012, 10:32:25 AM
His first unit of Black Daimons was quite devastating. I remember them routing a whole bunch of units. However, Black Daimons have been defeated two times I think, which greatly weakened them. I assume that they work as regular units, which means cohesion and other stuff pumps them up. In any case, they have been less dangerous than we thought in Riombara's last victory in Melegra (or this could very well be associated with the fact we had over a 1000 tightly arrayed infantry and was quite difficult for them to break that).
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Sypher on March 06, 2012, 10:48:01 AM
His first unit of Black Daimons was quite devastating. I remember them routing a whole bunch of units. However, Black Daimons have been defeated two times I think, which greatly weakened them. I assume that they work as regular units, which means cohesion and other stuff pumps them up. In any case, they have been less dangerous than we thought in Riombara's last victory in Melegra (or this could very well be associated with the fact we had over a 1000 tightly arrayed infantry and was quite difficult for them to break that).

Yeah, The first few hordes were stronger than some of these new ones. Its been hinted at that the Daimons have different recruitment constraints. Perhaps Overlord used his high quality troops at the beginning and they haven't replenished yet so he's using the weak ones right now.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Arrakis on March 06, 2012, 10:51:26 AM
Good. This means we can win some battles. Now, if we could only find a way to take blighted regions back...  ???
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: fodder on March 06, 2012, 11:13:03 AM
eh... my point is not that they are crap.. but my archers shooting into melee do more than 1 or whatever dmg.. anyone else seen that elsewhere?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Sypher on March 06, 2012, 11:23:19 AM
eh... my point is not that they are crap.. but my archers shooting into melee do more than 1 or whatever dmg.. anyone else seen that elsewhere?

Ah, right. I think it got changed back in January sometime?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: De-Legro on March 06, 2012, 11:23:55 AM
eh... my point is not that they are crap.. but my archers shooting into melee do more than 1 or whatever dmg.. anyone else seen that elsewhere?

Yes, been that way for my archers for a while.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: fodder on March 06, 2012, 12:28:40 PM
right.. never noticed because i don't think i've been in the position to see it.. heh.. great fix.

oh.. and overlord just spammed a load of scrolls (one lowering morale apparently) and we have another 10kcs daimons to fight.. XD....

my typical luck.. previous battle, my hero with infantry withdrew the round before we won... 90% and they legged it at 50% (they did lots of dmg too!) meh.. so much for chance to gain prestige.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on March 06, 2012, 01:05:59 PM
His first unit of Black Daimons was quite devastating. I remember them routing a whole bunch of units.

You had a really, really strong infantry wall there. And yet, you lost 350 soldiers on the initial charge alone, and while yes, you wiped the Black Daimons out, by the time you were done your men were shaking with fear so that on the advance to the Daimon archers in the rear, lots and lots of them broke and fled after taking the tiniest amount of casualties.

You fought a great battle, but imagine your infantry wall against any human unit of ~200 and you'll agree the Black Daimons are fearsome enemies. Even surviving the first melee round against that wall of yours is a feat.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: fodder on March 06, 2012, 01:27:48 PM
of course.... if it didn't charge 2 columns at a go and stopping the 2 odd ducks from moving.. there wouldn't have been 1 single wall XD probably... should be fun to see what happens next turn...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: JPierreD on March 06, 2012, 01:28:54 PM
Daimons are Daimons, none of us wants to see them on the opposing side of the battlefield, but I believe when they are saying Black Daimons are not that strong they are using other Daimons for a comparison base. Though I still remember Black Daimons kicking our asses even behind walled protection with their goddamn charges.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tan dSerrai on March 06, 2012, 02:54:30 PM
Black Daimons:
I remember facing Overlords initial black daimons when he was outnumbered /and/ we had a good infantry wall. His charges were even more devastating than the one from this morning. I admit I was surprised to see us winning that battle - if I would have been Rios general would not have engaged Overlords forces on an equal CS basis.

Well, I look at it this way: Riombaras warriors are by now so hardened that they state 'What? T'was no singular, completely hopeless slaughter? Only wading kneedeep in our blood and entrails? You young pup shoul'da seen the OLD outfit and what we were up against...'
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Telrunya on March 06, 2012, 02:57:54 PM
I must admit I totally expected us to lose the battle in Melegra as well ;D
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on March 06, 2012, 05:37:26 PM
I thought we had a chance because I know that daimons routinely fudge their CS numbers, sometimes drastically. Also, with that much infantry, all in box formations, we had about as good an army as you can get to face that type of charge.

Tom, I don't think anyone is understating the black daimons. It's just that we've already seen even worse during this Invasion. In the early part of it when the North was still coming south to help out we fought Overlord in one of Enweil's regions and his daimons hit our battle line for 22,000 hits on the initial charge, almost double what this unit pulled off. Compared to that, these guys were a piece of cake.

Terrifying, soulless, evil cake of death, but still cake.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chaotrance13 on March 06, 2012, 05:42:50 PM
Well, at least Darkest Hour of the North is rotting in a Nothoi dungeon right now. Unless he's escaped or such.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Naidraug on March 06, 2012, 05:52:16 PM
And Midnight of the West is dead
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on March 06, 2012, 05:53:13 PM
On that subject I've concluded that executing those commanders is worse than pointless. It's like giving them a free teleport to anywhere Tom can start a new character. It's much better to just keep them locked up for as long as possible.

Killing them in battle isn't bad since their unit then disappears (I think). Best to capture them and hold them though.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Telrunya on March 06, 2012, 05:57:58 PM
I believe Commanders aren't created so freely. Many believe that killing them enough times will kill them off for good, as witnessed by their name changes.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Indirik on March 06, 2012, 06:01:03 PM
If nothing else, it forces Tom to come up with more creative names for them. :P
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on March 06, 2012, 06:07:20 PM
I believe Commanders aren't created so freely. Many believe that killing them enough times will kill them off for good, as witnessed by their name changes.

Yes I know. And if you can point me to a single shred of evidence to this effect that isn't rumor, superstition or hearsay, I will eat my shoe.

They have a different name every time because the server doesn't allow you (or a GM) to create a character with exactly the same name as one of your previous characters connected to the same family. Remember the last Invasion where the daimon GM would try to bring his killed characters back to life, only he couldn't exactly? He had to resort to silliness like removing a single character from the original name and then pretending it was the same commander, back from the dead, in all his RPs.

I am 100% convinced that any supposition that if we kill enough of them, they'll stop coming back, is pure fantasy on the part of the players. I mean come on, we're up to what, 9th Son now? And they just keep on coming. If there was a limit, don't you think Overlord would be at least slightly more cautious about throwing them away?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: fodder on March 06, 2012, 06:16:36 PM
If nothing else, it forces Tom to come up with more creative names for them. :P

"a tad after sunrise"?


there's a 10th son somewhere..
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Anaris on March 06, 2012, 06:19:58 PM
Yes I know. And if you can point me to a single shred of evidence to this effect that isn't rumor, superstition or hearsay, I will eat my shoe.

They have a different name every time because the server doesn't allow you (or a GM) to create a character with exactly the same name as one of your previous characters connected to the same family. Remember the last Invasion where the daimon GM would try to bring his killed characters back to life, only he couldn't exactly? He had to resort to silliness like removing a single character from the original name and then pretending it was the same commander, back from the dead, in all his RPs.

I am 100% convinced that any supposition that if we kill enough of them, they'll stop coming back, is pure fantasy on the part of the players. I mean come on, we're up to what, 9th Son now? And they just keep on coming. If there was a limit, don't you think Overlord would be at least slightly more cautious about throwing them away?

Tom is playing them himself. He has complete and total power over what he calls them.

If he wanted to name them the same thing again, he would. If the code would prevent it, he could either change the code, or edit the database directly.

In your haste to explain things away as simply problems with the game, you are ignoring obvious clues that Tom is giving us about the nature of the Daimons Overlord commands.

Look at it from a more IC perspective, and don't be so cynical. Tom has been clear all along that he wanted this invasion to have a chance for us to win, and that there would be no deus ex machina.

That means that he's not just pre-determined the outcome either way: he's not going to just keep pulling Daimons out of his ass forever, and he's not just going to go away at some point because he feels like it. The one thing I've seen that has been the clearest indication of progress in the war has been the killing of the Daimon commanders and their replacement with new ones with different names.

If we kill all the Darkest Hours and they just get replaced with Even Darker Hours that command stronger troops than their predecessors, then, yeah, we'll know he's just screwing with us. And yeah, maybe killing them all will actually further Overlord's diabolical plans and let him wipe out all of Beluaterra.

But for Great Cthulhu's sake, I'd rather see that than people deciding not to kill them just because they think Tom can't respawn them with exactly the same name if he wants—or any other silly game-mechanic-based objection.

This invasion is pretty damn epic. Let it be epic, and don't try to reduce it to numbers and code.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: fodder on March 06, 2012, 06:29:10 PM
overlord got wounded.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Indirik on March 06, 2012, 06:35:37 PM
They have a different name every time because the server doesn't allow you (or a GM) to create a character with exactly the same name as one of your previous characters connected to the same family.
I do not believe this is true. There are plenty of families that have multiple characters with the exact same name. And some of them are still alive, but on different islands. If this really is true, then it must be a more recent change.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on March 06, 2012, 06:38:55 PM
Why so defensive Tim? Overall I'm fine with the Invasion; it's much more playable than the last one. I just wish I had a better idea of what to do.

And yes, I know that Tom can do anything he wants, but if he didn't care to put the time in to edit the code for what could be an entirely inconsequential detail, it explains the name changes while operating under very few assumptions. I'm utilizing Occam's Razor here. Suppositions that there is some kind of magic to the name changes requires quite a few more assumptions. The way I see it, they'll keep dropping no matter what. Chance dictates that we'll keep killing them as long as we keep fighting them, but it would be stupid to assume that if only we do it enough times we'll be saved.

However, I rather hope it's not as simple as just killing enough of them. How could Tom even be sure we'd ever manage to do so? That's leaving it up to luck, since capturing/killing the commanders in battle is mostly a matter of chance. Heads we win, tails we lose. I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that there's probably something more to this than a simple body count, though I guess it's always possible that killing them does hurt Overlord's cause in some way shape or form that we have not detected yet.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Thunthorn on March 06, 2012, 06:39:08 PM
Tom is playing them himself. He has complete and total power over what he calls them.

If he wanted to name them the same thing again, he would. If the code would prevent it, he could either change the code, or edit the database directly.

In your haste to explain things away as simply problems with the game, you are ignoring obvious clues that Tom is giving us about the nature of the Daimons Overlord commands.

Look at it from a more IC perspective, and don't be so cynical. Tom has been clear all along that he wanted this invasion to have a chance for us to win, and that there would be no deus ex machina.

That means that he's not just pre-determined the outcome either way: he's not going to just keep pulling Daimons out of his ass forever, and he's not just going to go away at some point because he feels like it. The one thing I've seen that has been the clearest indication of progress in the war has been the killing of the Daimon commanders and their replacement with new ones with different names.

If we kill all the Darkest Hours and they just get replaced with Even Darker Hours that command stronger troops than their predecessors, then, yeah, we'll know he's just screwing with us. And yeah, maybe killing them all will actually further Overlord's diabolical plans and let him wipe out all of Beluaterra.

But for Great Cthulhu's sake, I'd rather see that than people deciding not to kill them just because they think Tom can't respawn them with exactly the same name if he wants—or any other silly game-mechanic-based objection.

This invasion is pretty damn epic. Let it be epic, and don't try to reduce it to numbers and code.

Hear! Hear!

I just want to add that I am enjoying this invasion immensly. That doesn't always show in forum discussions, but it is true nonethless.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on March 06, 2012, 06:41:22 PM
I do not believe this is true. There are plenty of families that have multiple characters with the exact same name. And some of them are still alive, but on different islands. If this really is true, then it must be a more recent change.

Well I can't be certain I'm right. I'm basing this off of what happened with the Fourth Invasion daimons. At the time I'm reasonably certain that someone, somewhere, said it was a code thing; the daimon GM was not able to create new characters with the exact same name as the old characters, which led to him trying to RP around it.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on March 06, 2012, 06:42:03 PM
Regardless of whether it does us any good or not, if you have a daimon in your hands you don't let him live.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chaotrance13 on March 06, 2012, 06:51:24 PM
Regardless of whether it does us any good or not, if you have a daimon in your hands you don't let him live.

Suffer not the witch daimon to live!

(And now, quoting that from WH40k makes me wonder if anyone has ever made a religion based on that universe.. I know the CoH uses some elements from it, but not completely.)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Anaris on March 06, 2012, 07:00:43 PM
Why so defensive Tim?

Because you were being so dismissive.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on March 06, 2012, 07:02:57 PM
Because you were being so dismissive.

Which you never ever do, right?  ;)

I will admit that I am a bit cynical about the Invasions in general after experiencing the Fourth. But as I said, I am actually enjoying this one much more despite being utterly clueless as to what we need to do.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Peri on March 06, 2012, 07:37:55 PM
despite being utterly clueless as to what we need to do.

Just rally and prepare for the next round! throw your minions at him as he does with us!
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Indirik on March 06, 2012, 08:07:45 PM
(And now, quoting that from WH40k makes me wonder if anyone has ever made a religion based on that universe.. I know the CoH uses some elements from it, but not completely.)
Not to cast any aspersions onto WH40K, but I hope not. I would much rather see more original contributions, rather than stuff cribbed from somewhere else. But that's a different topic.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: JPierreD on March 06, 2012, 08:43:07 PM
if I would have been Rios general would not have engaged Overlords forces on an equal CS basis.

My character is convinced that is what doomed Enweil. Fear is Overlord's biggest weapon, and the more we avoid fighting, the more he just takes regions and blights them unopposed. We need to make a stand, even against all odds, and overcome the fear. We might lose in the short-term, or even in the long-term, but at least we will have made everything we could to prevent it, and if we have a chance, we will have sought it.

Hear! Hear!

I just wan't to add that I am enjoying this invasion immensly. That doesn't always show in forum discussions, but it is true nonethless.

I completely second that.

People are despairing, just as Overlord wants, for they can't see the light in the end of the tunnel. If we give in to panic then we will certainly lose BT.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on March 06, 2012, 09:04:35 PM
Hear! Hear!

I just wan't to add that I am enjoying this invasion immensly. That doesn't always show in forum discussions, but it is true nonethless.

No doubt.
This invasion is in terms of enjoyability only second to the first one in my opinion. And nostalgia has probably twisted my memory of that invasion. Still... giant frog armies, vampire lords (in a pre-twilight era) and so many other different types of fantastical creatures roaming the islands with a bloodthirst that equals that of Overlord himself was pure epicness... :)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: fodder on March 06, 2012, 09:04:53 PM
not much choice really... we'll be out of infantry soon XD
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Arrakis on March 06, 2012, 09:16:24 PM
I fully agree with the fear thingy. Every Overlord's roleplay or letter is an attempt to intimidate and if you combine that with the often masking of his army strength, he is being very effective with his agenda. Fear is a weapon and he uses it very well.

I am of the opinion that recent human victories in the north and south weakened him a bit, but he still has a massive strategic advantage since the north and south are disconnected. Humans really need a breakthrough on how to TO blighted regions (which I assume is possible). Unless some progress is made there I doubt we can keep up. But who knows. :)

And of course...I would like also like to say that I am having a blast in this invasion. I just recently read all those first reports how the invasion began, and the atmosphere created is amazing. I play a character that is exiled from his homeland to battle for his life in Beluaterra. He has a personal agenda to reclaim Fwuvoghor and is simultaneously in charge of one of the largest human war machine on BT. That is Riombara of course, which , btw, became extremely vibrant and alive ever since Marche became the new High Chancellor.

I don't really care what happens to BT - although it would be nice to survive, i guess, even if just to get the reward for all the effort made into surviving. But for me the thrill is not in the destination, but in the journey.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on March 06, 2012, 10:06:41 PM
I fully agree with the fear thingy. Every Overlord's roleplay or letter is an attempt to intimidate and if you combine that with the often masking of his army strength, he is being very effective with his agenda. Fear is a weapon and he uses it very well.

I totally just gave him a taste of his own medicine!  8)

You carefully work the ritual inscribed on your scroll of Fear.
Magic flows from the scroll and away. A cold feeling passes over you, and you know that the men in your target unit are shivering in fear.


I doubt it'll do anything but it's not like I was using it for anything else... :)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: JPierreD on March 06, 2012, 10:19:03 PM
I totally just gave him a taste of his own medicine!  8)

You carefully work the ritual inscribed on your scroll of Fear.
Magic flows from the scroll and away. A cold feeling passes over you, and you know that the men in your target unit are shivering in fear.


I doubt it'll do anything but it's not like I was using it for anything else... :)

Wow, low-morale Daimons? Now that should be quite a sight...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on March 06, 2012, 11:02:45 PM
I wonder if they even have a morale stat. They fought to the last man every single time I've ever seen them in combat.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: De-Legro on March 06, 2012, 11:05:08 PM
I wonder if they even have a morale stat. They fought to the last man every single time I've ever seen them in combat.

That could easily be a function of high Morale :)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on March 06, 2012, 11:14:50 PM
That could easily be a function of high Morale :)

Well, Overlord's boasting aside, we have a chance to find out at sunrise... Damn daimons just won't *die*. We've killed off about 3/4 of them, but all their wounded seem to come back the next turn.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on March 07, 2012, 12:38:41 AM
Am I the only one discouraged at all the recent defeats of the daimons?

Come on, damn daimons, stop splitting your forces and go kick human ass! There are more realms to crush! Stop sleezing around!
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Marlboro on March 07, 2012, 01:13:16 AM
Am I the only one discouraged at all the recent defeats of the daimons?

Yes.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on March 07, 2012, 01:48:10 AM
Am I the only one discouraged at all the recent defeats of the daimons?

Come on, damn daimons, stop splitting your forces and go kick human ass! There are more realms to crush! Stop sleezing around!

Stop rooting for the apocalypse. It's depressing.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Darksun on March 07, 2012, 03:02:22 AM
Am I the only one discouraged at all the recent defeats of the daimons?

Come on, damn daimons, stop splitting your forces and go kick human ass! There are more realms to crush! Stop sleezing around!

That's the spirit, glorious leader!
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on March 07, 2012, 03:32:33 AM
Stop rooting for the apocalypse. It's depressing.

Scorched earth policy!

Can't let the northern devils rule the holy land! All must burn! Burn burn burn!
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Draco Tanos on March 07, 2012, 04:12:56 AM
Chenier just knows that if the daimons are driven back and the North can get into the South once more, IVF is a goner.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Vellos on March 07, 2012, 05:08:35 AM
Am I the only one discouraged at all the recent defeats of the daimons?

Come on, damn daimons, stop splitting your forces and go kick human ass! There are more realms to crush! Stop sleezing around!

Yes.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: fodder on March 07, 2012, 07:14:30 AM
finally... we lost the battle.. XD
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: JPierreD on March 07, 2012, 07:31:58 AM
Am I the only one discouraged at all the recent defeats of the daimons?

Come on, damn daimons, stop splitting your forces and go kick human ass! There are more realms to crush! Stop sleezing around!

Why don't you tell that IC to Overlord? Maybe he can gather his forces and pay you a visit. ;)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on March 07, 2012, 08:59:41 AM
Well, Overlord's boasting aside, we have a chance to find out at sunrise... Damn daimons just won't *die*. We've killed off about 3/4 of them, but all their wounded seem to come back the next turn.

Oh, they die alright. What they are not doing you the favour is staying *wounded*.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Sypher on March 07, 2012, 09:09:58 AM
Oh, they die alright. What they are not doing you the favour is staying *wounded*.


Yeah, I noticed that after one of the priests cast magic in Vur Hagin and then the wounded Daimon Troopleader was suddenly not wounded and able to move.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Arrakis on March 07, 2012, 09:14:39 AM
First battle: Black Daimons 9240 CS charge 9801 damage.
Second battle: Black Daimons 5579 CS charge 12149 damage.

Is this magic too? I mean, the difference in CS is quite considerable between these two battle, and with a smaller CS Black Daimons scored much more than in the first battle. I wonder they were 'magically imbued with one of the scrolls' or was this pure randomness.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on March 07, 2012, 01:48:21 PM
finally... we lost the battle.. XD

Yes! :D

Why don't you tell that IC to Overlord? Maybe he can gather his forces and pay you a visit. ;)

Guillaume and Overlord don't like each other much. One views the other as a pest to be cleansed, the other sees the other as a jackal to keep out of one's garden.

But messing up the other people's gardens is totally cool. Filthy heathens!
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Telrunya on March 07, 2012, 02:13:36 PM
No worries. Fwuvoghor is most likely lost and the Overlord's prized Flesh Eaters are out.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Vellos on March 07, 2012, 03:37:38 PM
No worries. Fwuvoghor is most likely lost and the Overlord's prized Flesh Eaters are out.

Great!
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: JPierreD on March 07, 2012, 08:34:53 PM
But messing up the other people's gardens is totally cool. Filthy heathens!

As long as it is done IC, sure.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: fodder on March 07, 2012, 11:09:20 PM
First battle: Black Daimons 9240 CS charge 9801 damage.
Second battle: Black Daimons 5579 CS charge 12149 damage.

Is this magic too? I mean, the difference in CS is quite considerable between these two battle, and with a smaller CS Black Daimons scored much more than in the first battle. I wonder they were 'magically imbued with one of the scrolls' or was this pure randomness.

is that the one where i left my archers in skirmish and in melee range? whilst my archers soaked up plenty of damage.. (half intended) probably would have worked better if it was box....
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on March 07, 2012, 11:17:39 PM
As long as it is done IC, sure.

Guillaume's been saying that all non-Enweili were soulless heathens for quite a while now.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: JPierreD on March 07, 2012, 11:20:49 PM
Guillaume's been saying that all non-Enweili were soulless heathens for quite a while now.

And that he wants the Daimons to win against humans? He can always ally with the Netherworld...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on March 07, 2012, 11:25:49 PM
And that he wants the Daimons to win against humans? He can always ally with the Netherworld...

Hah, no. Daimons are jackals. Who allies with dogs?  ;D
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: JPierreD on March 08, 2012, 12:20:36 AM
Hah, no. Daimons are jackals. Who allies with dogs?  ;D

Ok, stating that he wants the jackals/dogs to win through the Ruler's channel should suffice then. 8)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on March 08, 2012, 03:34:02 AM
Ok, stating that he wants the jackals/dogs to win through the Ruler's channel should suffice then. 8)

Who wants animals to win?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: La Blakeshadow on March 08, 2012, 04:12:43 AM
Who wants animals to win?

The Animals?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: JPierreD on March 08, 2012, 05:18:49 AM
Who wants animals to win?

You?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on March 08, 2012, 01:44:21 PM
If you are in war, and forest fires start threatening your enemy, odds are you'd like the fires to spread and cripple these enemies. You would, however, not want the fires to "win" and cause undue harm to your own people, however, and will as such do your best to resist the fire at your borders without wanted it to be put out everywhere.

The Creed of the Cossacks has a very clear clause about not aiding invaders, after all. It's all so much easier if they are just displayed as a force of nature or primitive beings.

I am taking a much more ambivalent stance than ever before, though. But still keeping clear of an "all in" as Vlaanderen and Sint did.

Funny how my characters that were the most accused of daimon worship were the ones most fiercely opposed to it and wanted to see the daimons destroy stuff the least.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lefanis on March 08, 2012, 02:20:58 PM
Funny how my characters that were the most accused of daimon worship were the ones most fiercely opposed to it and wanted to see the daimons destroy stuff the least.

Have you read Beyond?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Naidraug on March 08, 2012, 06:55:28 PM
It seems Overlord change it's tactics and will attack everyone to break our union...


...And while the invasion happens, Fwuvoghor starts it's 3º/4º rebellion of the day.

Why? Because there are only 4 nobles there...So they keep protesting against each other to ruler and starting rebellions...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Marlboro on March 08, 2012, 07:43:35 PM
Funny how my characters that were the most accused of daimon worship were the ones most fiercely opposed to it and wanted to see the daimons destroy stuff the least.

Funny how they're daimon-loving sociopaths. If the other realms fall, do you really think they'll leave you alone? To use your forest fire comparison, everyone needs to put down their weapons and start picking up some buckets, because no one side has enough men to quench this blaze.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Yorkie on March 08, 2012, 10:06:01 PM
It seems Overlord change it's tactics and will attack everyone to break our union...


...And while the invasion happens, Fwuvoghor starts it's 3º/4º rebellion of the day.

Why? Because there are only 4 nobles there...So they keep protesting against each other to ruler and starting rebellions...

I have this mental image of four guys standing around a table, all holding on a crown saying "NO IT'S MINE!" "NO YOU HAD IT LAST ITS MINE!" "YOU BOTH ARE LOSERS! GIMMY!"

Is there a limit to how many rebellions they can throw?...Because I could see the peasantry becoming very annoyed and just kicking them all out and going rogue :p

Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Indirik on March 08, 2012, 10:28:38 PM
I think Arcachon had four within a week.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on March 08, 2012, 11:11:31 PM
Have you read Beyond?

I have not. And as it doesn't appear as if it should be considered IC knowledge, I have no desire to do so at least for the rest of the invasion.

Funny how they're daimon-loving sociopaths. If the other realms fall, do you really think they'll leave you alone? To use your forest fire comparison, everyone needs to put down their weapons and start picking up some buckets, because no one side has enough men to quench this blaze.

Stalin would disagree. See: "Scorched Earth Policy"

None of my characters has ever loved the daimons. They've had a wide array of emotions towards them, but love was never one. To say as much would be equivalent to claim that Riombara loves Enweil because they both considered the greater threat was another at a certain point in time. Considering Riombara's done nothing else than harass Enweil for the last years, I think it's safe to assume that this is not the case.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Marlboro on March 08, 2012, 11:54:58 PM
You don't get to abandon your principles just because your enemies did and then still call yourself honorable. Cheering the daimons at this point is tantamount to planting a big sloppy kiss on their ugly mouths.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on March 09, 2012, 12:12:11 AM
You don't get to abandon your principles just because your enemies did and then still call yourself honorable. Cheering the daimons at this point is tantamount to planting a big sloppy kiss on their ugly mouths.

What principles would those be?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Marlboro on March 09, 2012, 12:48:17 AM
What principles would those be?

"Daimons are bad." It's telling that you even need to ask that.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on March 09, 2012, 01:07:48 AM
"Daimons are bad." It's telling that you even need to ask that.

When did I ever say that was one of my principles?

I find it rather surprising that you seem to take this aggressive tone OOC. "Daimons" are a name, could have been any other. "The Light" is good, because light is always the good guys, right? Yet I've seen more blood spilled at the temples of "The Light" than at the temples of the Blood Cult and of Daimon Worship combined.

Why are the daimons so evil? Just because of their name?

Or is it because they kill people? Because, obviously, that's not what *every* realm does all the time, right?

Or because they systematically target the innocent? Because, of course, there's *no* other realm that did that, right?

The daimons are evil, sure, they've proved it. Everyone knows it. I never denied it myself either. But so what? Are you seriously going to tell me that everyone else is an angel, just because they are human?

You could try to argue they are more evil, but that's not really possible to prove. Yea, they did more stuff, but that's because they were given the opportunity to (they had the power). Are you trying to tell me that no other human realm would of done these things if they could have?

Otherwise, you could try to judge them on something else, easier to compare with others. Honor, for example. In this case, sure, the priests have used a few tricks, they lied a bit. Then again, so did most realms. Other than that, Overlord, their ruler, has been pretty straightforward and truthful all along. Which is more than can be said about a handful of other rulers.

Is it that surprising that some characters might now deem that the moral decay of humanity is so great that only a great "fire" can cleanse it now? That civilization as it exists is too corrupt to still be salvageable?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Vellos on March 09, 2012, 01:20:28 AM
Heck yes I'm cheering for the daimons.

Why do you think Cyrilos sat in Fwuvoghor hoarding gold, constantly bickered and obstructed things, and then left with so little notice?

Many characters have motives other than humanity's (or at least Beluaterra's) survival. And some of us just have characters who like to watch things burn. The smoke that rises from a burning city is incense unto the gods.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on March 09, 2012, 01:44:29 AM
Heck yes I'm cheering for the daimons.

Why do you think Cyrilos sat in Fwuvoghor hoarding gold, constantly bickered and obstructed things, and then left with so little notice?

Many characters have motives other than humanity's (or at least Beluaterra's) survival. And some of us just have characters who like to watch things burn. The smoke that rises from a burning city is incense unto the gods.

Indeed, a great many things can fuel a person's desire to see others burn, from love of destruction to consuming vengeance to desires of purification.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Anaris on March 09, 2012, 02:09:15 AM
When did I ever say that was one of my principles?

I find it rather surprising that you seem to take this aggressive tone OOC. "Daimons" are a name, could have been any other. "The Light" is good, because light is always the good guys, right? Yet I've seen more blood spilled at the temples of "The Light" than at the temples of the Blood Cult and of Daimon Worship combined.

Now, I understand your basic point here, that what we call things—or what they call themselves—has a strong influence on how we react to them.

But even so, do you still, even OOC, see no difference between blood sacrificed willingly for what the donors consider a worthy cause, and blood spilled in violence, by force?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Vellos on March 09, 2012, 02:22:40 AM
Indeed, a great many things can fuel a person's desire to see others burn, from love of destruction to consuming vengeance to desires of purification.

Or because, if chaos doesn't happen a bit, people won't realize that they have wandered too far from the Way. We need Beluaterra to sink as an example to all of humanity what will happen if we don't return to the One True Faith.

That's the obvious interpretation. I don't see how anyone could see it differently.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Marlboro on March 09, 2012, 02:23:26 AM
But even so, do you still, even OOC, see no difference between blood sacrificed willingly for what the donors consider a worthy cause, and blood spilled in violence, by force?

This. You seem to think I'm attacking you OOC; I'm really not. You're defending your characters' IC integrity using IC arguments but this is an OOC forum and we can objectively look at things like this and go "huh"? Like, I get it, I get why the Cheniers love the Daimons so much and are their biggest fanboys, but you the player seem to be adopting the same exact persona and stance on things as your character such that it's hard to debate you without it looking like something personal.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: JPierreD on March 09, 2012, 03:20:23 AM
When did I ever say that was one of my principles?
Yet I've seen more blood spilled at the temples of "The Light" than at the temples of the Blood Cult and of Daimon Worship combined.

Sure, if you completely disassociate Daimon Worship from the Netherworld, and fail to see that the sacrifices in the temples of The Light brought effective rewards (and where voluntary), while those of the Blood Cult did not, not to mention they were just RP'd.

If the measure of evilness is simply amount of deaths caused, then we should really, really hate the sea.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: De-Legro on March 09, 2012, 03:24:37 AM
Sure, if you completely disassociate Daimon Worship from the Netherworld, and fail to see that the sacrifices in the temples of The Light brought effective rewards (and where voluntary), while those of the Blood Cult did not, not to mention they were just RP'd.

If the measure of evilness is simply amount of deaths caused, then we should really, really hate the sea.

We did. Or more correctly we hated the mythical creatures of the sea that we created to explain the constant loss of life among sailors.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on March 09, 2012, 03:28:15 AM
Now, I understand your basic point here, that what we call things—or what they call themselves—has a strong influence on how we react to them.

But even so, do you still, even OOC, see no difference between blood sacrificed willingly for what the donors consider a worthy cause, and blood spilled in violence, by force?

A lot of the Blood Cult was all about *willing* sacrifices. There were unwilling ones as well, yes, but the focus really was on the willing ones, which were worth a whole lot more.

One also has to wonder how much "choice" there was in "give your life to fuel those who defend you, or give your life defending yourself against those who attack you". It's a fine like between "free choice" and coercion. The Light came in realms surrounded by invaders, one could view them as parasites exploiting the unfortunate. After all, Hetland died just the same.

Of course, the daimons spill a lot of blood by force. But so do every human realm, that's called war, and few care to wage it honorably.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on March 09, 2012, 03:32:59 AM
This. You seem to think I'm attacking you OOC; I'm really not. You're defending your characters' IC integrity using IC arguments but this is an OOC forum and we can objectively look at things like this and go "huh"? Like, I get it, I get why the Cheniers love the Daimons so much and are their biggest fanboys, but you the player seem to be adopting the same exact persona and stance on things as your character such that it's hard to debate you without it looking like something personal.

See, here's the problem: "I get why the Chéniers love the daimons so much and are their biggest fanboys".

They aren't. And I've said so ooc, quite plainly: none of my characters has *ever* felt love for the daimons. Jean-Olivier was a huge undead fanboy, sure, but undead and daimons aren't the same thing. That you continue to hammer this again OOC, despite my quite clearly saying the contrary, is what puzzles me.

I'm inclined to believe you never even read a single one letter from any of my characters talking about the nature of the daimons or how they are to be treated. Not a single one.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: JPierreD on March 09, 2012, 04:01:46 AM
Of course, the daimons spill a lot of blood by force. But so do every human realm, that's called war, and few care to wage it honorably.

Constant sustainable small bloodshed > Genocide leading to depopulation of humans and possible eventual extinction of them. Just saying.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on March 09, 2012, 04:05:50 AM
Constant sustainable small bloodshed > Genocide leading to depopulation of humans and possible eventual extinction of them. Just saying.

A good number of people were actively feeding as many of their own peasants as they could to fuel the monsters' invasion efforts last invasion. Looks like 90% of the continent decided to just completely absolve them of their crimes.

Not surprising the remaining 10% doesn't have much empathy for the rest of the 90% in such cases.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: JPierreD on March 09, 2012, 05:07:42 AM
A good number of people were actively feeding as many of their own peasants as they could to fuel the monsters' invasion efforts last invasion. Looks like 90% of the continent decided to just completely absolve them of their crimes.

Not surprising the remaining 10% doesn't have much empathy for the rest of the 90% in such cases.

Menacing the extinction of humanity? If not I'll say it again: The Light > Daimons.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: fodder on March 09, 2012, 11:58:45 AM
eh.. you can't feed them anything. the gm goes around feeding whatever at their own logic.

if players do it, they will be directing the monsters to cities

consistent theme. daimons really bad. anything else. bad. just not as bad.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on March 09, 2012, 12:21:05 PM
I have not. And as it doesn't appear as if it should be considered IC knowledge,

Nonsense. Half the stories were originally posted as IC content to the game itself.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on March 09, 2012, 12:26:08 PM
Constant sustainable small bloodshed > Genocide leading to depopulation of humans and possible eventual extinction of them. Just saying.

I still have quite a distance, though. The total population (statistics graph, population, stacked) is just over a million, having fallen from almost 1.1 mio. I did the math on how quickly I am currently killing people. It's still a lot until total genocide. But I'll get there.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on March 09, 2012, 02:01:35 PM
Menacing the extinction of humanity? If not I'll say it again: The Light > Daimons.

That affirmation is based on what? OOC knowledge? The names sounding better? The characters being only somewhat a tad less haughty?

Nothing I've seen IC suggests that the Light is any better than the daimons. OOC, sure, I believe it. But I'm not going to RP my characters into loving them just because I, as a player, know that they were the deus ex machina to save us.

As for extinction, you have to actually believe in the threat to take it into account. The way I look at it, it reminds me of when half the continent had teamed up against Enweil to save Rio: There were a lot of neutral or friendly realms we *knew* the people attacking us would like to attack, but they wouldn't get in the wars themselves. So we did a strategic retreat. We made a few concessions, pulled out of the war, but made sure to do so with clear and varying expiration dates. That way, a few months later, we didn't have a treaty with Hetland anymore, and all of our enemies had gotten themselves stuck in new wars. So, gleefuly, we started getting back revenge, and helping the new targets of our old enemies. It's the same right now: BT is taking all of the blunt of the invasion, the other continents don't care. It's but a tiny fraction of humanity fighting here. Once BT falls, though, that's a MUCH larger pool of defenders to call upon. If the daimons lose so often against so few men, what could they possibly do against all of that might?

That's IC logic, of course. I don't OOC expect the daimons to go invade every continent, but I don't let OOC metagaming affect how I play my characters.

All of these conclusions about the invaders, the light, and my own family are all from baseless assumptions or fallacious deductions. Way too black and white, as if humanity was the greatest and purest thing ever and the daimons were the vilest thing ever, when it basically can just be summed up to "us" and "them" arguments: Both try to wipe the other out, because both consider themselves superior just for being themselves.

eh.. you can't feed them anything. the gm goes around feeding whatever at their own logic.

if players do it, they will be directing the monsters to cities

consistent theme. daimons really bad. anything else. bad. just not as bad.

Of course you can feed them. What else do you call inviting them to your cities and not offering any resistance? Most people resist when monsters try to eat their peasants. Or at least they don't invite them. Yet some did.

There's no universal law that states how "bad" things are. Different laws, religions, and philosophies judge things differently. Many of which can be used to determine that humans are the greater evil here.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: fodder on March 09, 2012, 02:40:55 PM
eh.. they didn't go for the cities. XD

daimon is always bad. personal experience for all in bt. especially those of us who saw daimons in athol margos. or rather, humans who control daimons....

so by any comparison, anything else is less bad. especially if they kill daimons.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Vellos on March 09, 2012, 03:36:01 PM
eh.. they didn't go for the cities. XD

daimon is always bad. personal experience for all in bt. especially those of us who saw daimons in athol margos. or rather, humans who control daimons....

so by any comparison, anything else is less bad. especially if they kill daimons.

No, daimons are good.

Daimons destroy, and destruction is good. Thus, daimons are good. How else can we sink Beluaterra?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Telrunya on March 09, 2012, 03:38:00 PM
Save the cheerleaderBeluaterra, Save the World!
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: fodder on March 09, 2012, 03:58:41 PM
No, daimons are good.

Daimons destroy, and destruction is good. Thus, daimons are good. How else can we sink Beluaterra?
eh... we string up any vellos as a sacrifice?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lefanis on March 09, 2012, 04:52:31 PM
No, daimons are good.

Daimons destroy, and destruction is good. Thus, daimons are good. How else can we sink Beluaterra?

Hmm, tell that to Hireshmont Vellos :P
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on March 09, 2012, 04:59:00 PM
Hmm, tell that to Hireshmont Vellos :P

Let's sink Dwilight!
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Vellos on March 09, 2012, 07:34:03 PM
Hmm, tell that to Hireshmont Vellos :P

hahaha.

My characters are all different. Hireshmont was, ultimately, truly a believer in humanity and human potential, and ultimately had a moral sensibility rather like most normal humans. He was just a very capable person pushed into unfortunate positions, and determined to salvage them by any means.

Cyrilos.... is completely different. He hates the daimons passionately. And believes that their ultimate victory over Beluaterra is necessary to their ultimate defeat by the Holy Army of the Warrior Saints (May the Seventeen Blessings of Saint Issik Be Upon Them!).
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: JPierreD on March 09, 2012, 10:20:22 PM
I still have quite a distance, though. The total population (statistics graph, population, stacked) is just over a million, having fallen from almost 1.1 mio. I did the math on how quickly I am currently killing people. It's still a lot until total genocide. But I'll get there.

RP-wise 90% of the population dies when the Blight covers the land, right? Not counting those killed to conquer the land, and those killed by the new conditions met inside the Blight.

That affirmation is based on what? OOC knowledge? The names sounding better? The characters being only somewhat a tad less haughty?

I assume the Daimons have not taken any of your regions, and your character has not heard anything about what happens inside the Blight, right?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Marlboro on March 09, 2012, 10:24:17 PM
Don't feed the troll.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on March 09, 2012, 11:32:06 PM
I assume the Daimons have not taken any of your regions, and your character has not heard anything about what happens inside the Blight, right?

Of course he has. Never claimed they weren't evil.

What they did, they did because they had the power to. Would you tell me that nobody else would have done this had *they* had the power to?

I tend to judge people on what they are, instead of what they did. And I'm convinced there's a good number of BT humans of influence who would have caused just as much destruction and death had they been given the chance.

The question was never "are the daimons evil?", but rather "are the daimons more evil than everyone else?".

My character used to believe the former, now he doesn't know for sure, but is convinced that at least they are more honorable than the others. That being said, he has a pretty bleak view on the world, and loathes pretty much everything that he doesn't command or hold sway in.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: JPierreD on March 10, 2012, 12:28:24 AM
Of course he has. Never claimed they weren't evil.

Nor I implied you did not consider them evil. The argument is whether they are *more* evil than The Light or not. So, do you (and would your character) agree they are far worse?

What they did, they did because they had the power to. Would you tell me that nobody else would have done this had *they* had the power to?

Dunno, would humans decide to commit genocide, blight the land, and torture and kill all the remaining humans after?

I tend to judge people on what they are, instead of what they did. And I'm convinced there's a good number of BT humans of influence who would have caused just as much destruction and death had they been given the chance.

So The Light and humanity are worse than Daimons because some hypothetical humans might do worse than Daimons were they given power?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Zakilevo on March 10, 2012, 03:49:27 AM
Can't judge something based on what might happen. Humans might do something worse than daimons but how many would do that? Humans have more free will than Daimons. Daimons feel like mindless peons of daimons in the upper hierarchy.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on March 10, 2012, 08:47:45 AM
I'd like to congratulate the discussion on having completed three entire circles. I do think that is quite enough.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Penchant on March 10, 2012, 09:00:42 AM
So what were the circles/cycles ?(I havent read the entire thread) and i assume you are sarcastic when you say that Tom.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Thunthorn on March 10, 2012, 10:13:53 AM
These flesheater commanders, they seem to command two units each? How is this handled in the game mechanics? Are there actually two commanders, and if we kill one off will the other survive, or if we kill one will both be dead?

In other words does our characters see one or two commanders when we engage them on the battlefield?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Arrakis on March 10, 2012, 10:44:24 AM
And now we have two Overlords, too.  :o
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Telrunya on March 10, 2012, 11:18:51 AM
I figured it was them just commanding two units.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Thunthorn on March 10, 2012, 11:21:28 AM
Thats my working theory as well, but it never hurts to make sure. ;)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: fodder on March 10, 2012, 12:24:15 PM
"overlord's underling"
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on March 10, 2012, 02:27:23 PM
These flesheater commanders, they seem to command two units each? How is this handled in the game mechanics? Are there actually two commanders, and if we kill one off will the other survive, or if we kill one will both be dead?

In other words does our characters see one or two commanders when we engage them on the battlefield?

One character commanding two units. It's not the first time, either. Happened in previous invasions, too.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on March 10, 2012, 05:02:19 PM
Can't judge something based on what might happen. Humans might do something worse than daimons but how many would do that? Humans have more free will than Daimons. Daimons feel like mindless peons of daimons in the upper hierarchy.

Can't and shouldn't are two different things that one should not mistake for each other. ;)

One character commanding two units. It's not the first time, either. Happened in previous invasions, too.

Indeed it did.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: JPierreD on March 12, 2012, 03:44:28 PM
Loving the way the Sons are showing Enweil the true power of religion...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on March 12, 2012, 11:44:34 PM
Loving the way the Sons are showing Enweil the true power of religion...

Indeed. And I got there just in time.  8)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: fodder on March 13, 2012, 01:32:50 PM
to be installed as the new daimon worshipper lord?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Marlboro on March 13, 2012, 08:39:57 PM
to be installed as the new daimon worshipper lord?

*Fistbump.*
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on March 13, 2012, 10:38:04 PM
to be installed as the new daimon worshipper lord?

Uhm, no? To spread my own faith in Enweil as their only alternative to being completely at Daimon Worship's mercy? Cultural imperialism, though friendly in this case.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Iltaran on March 19, 2012, 11:49:41 AM
Quote
Skies Darkening   (15 minutes ago)
As you go about your day, you being to notice that the weather is taking a turn for the worse. Clouds begin to fill the sky and even though the weather had been fair for days, the sun is now blocked off. Despite the cover, it is still warm, even warmer than before. No rain. Very strange weather, especially closing in so fast. You wonder what is up.

Ladies and Gentlemen. Please do not panic. The situation is under control. Go about your daily business, and ignore any OHGODITSHERETHEAPOCOLYPSEISUPONUSREPENTREPENTREPENT.

*coughs*

Please do not panic.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on March 19, 2012, 12:57:43 PM
Ladies and Gentlemen. Please do not panic. The situation is under control. Go about your daily business, and ignore any OHGODITSHERETHEAPOCOLYPSEISUPONUSREPENTREPENTREPENT.

*coughs*

Please do not panic.

You got that too?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Iltaran on March 19, 2012, 01:05:36 PM
Everyone seems to have.

On reflection, it looks like it was marking the blighting of Fwuvoghor. Which is slightly less dramatic than things first appeared, but still depressing. Honestly I'm halfway tempted to swear an oath to hunt down the Psyche family for causing twenty thousand people to be devoured by Daimons...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on March 19, 2012, 01:12:46 PM
Everyone seems to have.

On reflection, it looks like it was marking the blighting of Fwuvoghor. Which is slightly less dramatic than things first appeared, but still depressing. Honestly I'm halfway tempted to swear an oath to hunt down the Psyche family for causing twenty thousand people to be devoured by Daimons...

He deleted, though.

And Fwuvoghor's been blighted for a while.

This looks a lot more like something's about to happen. I was thinking something like a rain of fire, with the clouds and warmth and all.

I thought it was in Cjelorg and we'd just get to run away from it. Can't have our army die before it moves back to fight the takeover in Sandlakes!
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Iltaran on March 19, 2012, 01:20:34 PM
Quote
He deleted, though.

Bugger

Quote
And Fwuvoghor's been blighted for a while.

Oh... THETIMEOFMANISENDEDOURDOOMISUPONUSALLWILLBURNREPENTREPENT
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Anaris on March 19, 2012, 01:50:52 PM
Oh... THETIMEOFMANISENDEDOURDOOMISUPONUSALLWILLBURNREPENTREPENT

Relevant song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RtwLGwpJIo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RtwLGwpJIo)

(Doesn't begin till about 0:10, for some reason.)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Telrunya on March 19, 2012, 02:19:55 PM
Quote
Peasants Frightened   (54 minutes ago)
The sudden darkening of the skies has caused the peasants to be frightened. There are rumours of bad omens and worse to come.
Some peasants are hiding in their homes, some are requesting the aid of their lords. Others have begun to accuse each other if witchcraft and sorcery. Rumours have it that some have even turned to Daimon Worship. Most, however, are simply afraid and fear the coming night.

BAD news, with capital letters and all that.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: fodder on March 19, 2012, 07:02:32 PM
... who farted...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Telrunya on March 19, 2012, 08:47:06 PM
Quote
Night Falls   (1 hour, 52 minutes ago)
As the night falls, most of the peasants lock their doors, bolt their windows shut and pray to their gods - or maybe to darker powers, who knows?
The clouds still have not lifted, and it is still unnaturally warm. Neither the priests nor the old men seem to know what to make of this.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Bael on March 19, 2012, 09:13:53 PM
And there I thought that I was just getting that because there was a 20k cs demon army in the region next to me :o

PS: Who's been handing them the portal stones, anyhoo? ???
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: GoldPanda on March 20, 2012, 12:25:07 AM
Every one of these invasions remind me of a tabletop roleplaying session where all the players are frustrated and confused, and the GM is pulling his hair out, saying "Why haven't you solved this puzzle/riddle already? It's so simple!"
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Naidraug on March 20, 2012, 12:54:55 AM
Every one of these invasions remind me of a tabletop roleplaying session where all the players are frustrated and confused, and the GM is pulling his hair out, saying "Why haven't you solved this puzzle/riddle already? It's so simple!"

I am actually starting to give up on this...even if "we don´t share information" it is hard to find out things when most of the things that happens inside the game is like "the sky is getting darker" even Overlord stopped talking, and blabbering (not that would help anything but still).

When a game mechanics is all about order troops to go there -> wait 6hrs -> see results, it is hard to do something else, even use the knowledge you have to defeat it...specially when the role-play doesn't count for game mechanic (it is more a player interaction thing).

So in the end, BT is going to be blighted, the island is going to go away and we´ll move on to other things/islands
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: JPierreD on March 20, 2012, 05:01:30 AM
Less defeatist posts, please. If it happens, it happens.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on March 20, 2012, 09:43:51 AM
Every one of these invasions remind me of a tabletop roleplaying session where all the players are frustrated and confused, and the GM is pulling his hair out, saying "Why haven't you solved this puzzle/riddle already? It's so simple!"

Why do you think there is a puzzle to solve at all?

I said a hundred times there will be no Deus Ex Machina. Solving a puzzle to make all the invaders go *poof* would be exactly what I said isn't there.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: GoldPanda on March 20, 2012, 10:20:32 AM
I meant it as an analogy, Tom. You were wondering aloud why the players have been so inept at information sharing and generally figuring things out, right? What's obvious to you is not always obvious to others. Maybe you think Overlord or some other NPC is dropping important clues, or maybe even devious misdirections, but everyone else just reads gibberish. People won't share information if they do not even recognize it as information.

Disclaimer: I don't even play on BT, but I'm seeing a lot of confused and frustrated players here in the BT forum. BT always seems to attract the more masochistic segment of the player base.  ;D
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Iltaran on March 20, 2012, 10:24:38 AM
Quote
The Weather Today   (1 hour, 11 minutes ago)
As the sun rises, it shines through mist and fog, but the sky is not quite as cloudy anymore. It is still warmer than it should be.

For those of you who don't get the Beluaterran Weather Report at home; today will reach an expected top of 39 degrees, clouds clearing, and a chance of being disembowled by Daimons.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on March 20, 2012, 10:55:31 AM
I meant it as an analogy, Tom. You were wondering aloud why the players have been so inept at information sharing and generally figuring things out, right?

Yes, but not in the sense that there's a puzzle to solve. I was surprised that some of my Daimon leaders could loot realm X for days, while everyone else was wondering where the heck he is. Stuff like that.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: JPierreD on March 20, 2012, 11:47:02 AM
Yes, but not in the sense that there's a puzzle to solve. I was surprised that some of my Daimon leaders could loot realm X for days, while everyone else was wondering where the heck he is. Stuff like that.

Regarding TOing of Enweil's last regions before Enweilieos got blighted, for example, Riombara sent 20k CS of troops (the most it could muster) which awaited in Enweilieos for an opportunity, but the Marshal considered that the closest Daimon army (TOing Yncaloo) was too strong (around 21k CS, Daimonic CS btw), and attempting to flank them would simply mean the slaughtering of our army. That was only one of the three TOs running, and Enweil was so beaten up they had no more than 3k CS which they decided to use somewhere else, despite our efforts to have them join us in battle (poor coordination and them being intercepted before being able to meet us also didn't help).

You at the time said you were surprised that you were TOing 3 regions unopposed. I am not trying to whine or the likes, but at least Yncaloo's TO force was quite strong (and the CS was gathered not from scout, but from battle reports, if I recall correctly), and though I disagreed with our Marshal, saying we should have pressed combat instead of waiting for an opening that never came and forced us to return to refit, the truth is that it was not a simple matter of moving there to break the TOs, specially with no possibility of help from the north.

That said, I don't mind facing such kind of forces, and/or losing. I just don't really expect you to be surprised by that happening.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: vonGenf on March 20, 2012, 12:40:13 PM
Why do you think there is a puzzle to solve at all?

I said a hundred times there will be no Deus Ex Machina. Solving a puzzle to make all the invaders go *poof* would be exactly what I said isn't there.

So, you had decided many months that the skies would go dark on March 19th, no matter what?

Even do there is no Deus Ex Machina, I do hope that there are in game causes for the in game events. I haven't figured them all out yet.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on March 20, 2012, 12:57:54 PM
Yes, but not in the sense that there's a puzzle to solve. I was surprised that some of my Daimon leaders could loot realm X for days, while everyone else was wondering where the heck he is. Stuff like that.

They don't ask.  ;D

When there are daimons in foreign lands, we can't do anything about it, so it's of little interest. When we have daimons in our lands, others can't do anything about them, so there's no point in telling.

Enweil (and usually Fronen) are told when daimons come to loot Fheuv'n, but what else to do? Invite the Riombarans over so they can loot alongside the daimons? I think not!

Nah, we just pull back our forces from wherever they were (damn daimons usually strike when our army finally gets a chance to help Enweil one way or another) and send them again and again and again at the Daimons until they get bored of slaughtering our army. Don't need no Riombarans to do that!

After all, Riombara's done nothing to gain our trust. They haven't given a sincere apology (other than "we are sorry for killing people after intentionally moving in to attack them"), they haven't offered actual peace, and they, predictably, have not respected their word that they would destroy the Order of Alluran. I invite Enweil to help, but they have nothing left. I'm not gonna ask people I'm at war with to come take a stroll in our realm. Especially since, with the time it takes, the daimon will probably have left by the time they arrive, allowing them to repeat their "you lied, there aren't any daimons here!" slogans.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Naidraug on March 20, 2012, 01:27:20 PM
Why do you think there is a puzzle to solve at all?

I said a hundred times there will be no Deus Ex Machina. Solving a puzzle to make all the invaders go *poof* would be exactly what I said isn't there.

So if there is no puzzle to solve, you can't say you have been giving clues on what is happening when you can just decide when things are going to happen, and on the contrary to what you say there are puzzles:

1- How to cross the blight - That is a puzzle to solve
2- How to unblight a region - That is another puzzle
3- How to kill and defeat the daimons - That is another puzzle

Unless, Tom, you say: "There is no way to cross it, there is no way to unblight, and there is no way to defeat the daimons, I want to sink this island for good, so no matter what you do I will blight everything and will destroy everything", we will keep searching answers and we will keep getting frustrated because we don't find them and the only thing we can do is to watch while you do your fun blighting regions, destroying armies and bringing flesh eaters to this.

You can't say that you "have being sitting on region X looting for days and nobody noticed" when the only thing we can do is:
Look scout report-> Compare daimon forces with our own -> Think: Hmm their forces is greater than ours -> Wait allies and bulk army -> attack region -> big battle, defeat(or lose to) daimons -> return home to refit -> repeat process.

This is how your game works, so we have only two options here:

A) Keep beating them until they give up, with luck gather some special item with adventures to boost army morale

B) Wait for you to trow in something on this that will help us to defeat them

You already said B is not going to happen, so we only have A left, and A is not enough A doesn't take us anywhere, and you'll be frustrated that "we don't get it/share info/leave your daimons to loot for days in the region X" and we'll be frustrated because there is nothing for us to do to stop this. No matter if we kill a daimon on the battlefield, he will come back the next turn, no matter if we execute a son, another one will take his place the next turn, no matter how many we kill, how much we do with what we can do (considering the game mechanics), I can't simply role-play that I have for days taken part in a ritual and now i have the power to cross the blight, it won't work.

In the end, thinking OOC, it is not a defeatist speech, but a more realistic one, that unless Tom changes his mind and start giving answers to the puzzles that don't exists, BT is going down, he just need to admit it to everyone that it is going to happen. This invasion is just to that is happens in a glorious way, that we can all go down fighting with honor(except for IVF of course).

Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on March 20, 2012, 02:09:44 PM
So, you had decided many months that the skies would go dark on March 19th, no matter what?

Even do there is no Deus Ex Machina, I do hope that there are in game causes for the in game events. I haven't figured them all out yet.

No, I haven't. But understanding the cause for everything is not a requirement, either. There's a lot of info that is given only to people in a certain region, or only on the ruler channel or whatever, and that's fine. Some things become public after the event - like the blighting of Villriil, which was a secret operation right until it all went horribly wrong (or right, for me).

Really, if you want to enjoy the invasion, the best advise I can give is to play it like a roleplaying game and not having too much of a gamer mindset. There's things going on you will likely never find out. Which is ok, because there are other things going on that you witness, but those on the other side of the island will likely never learn about. It is these local events that ensure that the invasion isn't the same for everyone.


Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on March 20, 2012, 02:21:09 PM
So if there is no puzzle to solve, you can't say you have been giving clues on what is happening when you can just decide when things are going to happen, and on the contrary to what you say there are puzzles:

Oh man. Am I being intentionally misunderstood here? Of course there are interesting things happening that you can figure out. Plus a couple that are pure misdirection. Plus a couple that I never said, but someone else made up and they've now been spread around so much that everyone thinks they are true.

What I said was that there is "main plot" that if solved will instantly resolve everything.


Unless, Tom, you say: "There is no way to cross it, there is no way to unblight, and there is no way to defeat the daimons, I want to sink this island for good, so no matter what you do I will blight everything and will destroy everything", we will keep searching answers and we will keep getting frustrated because we don't find them and the only thing we can do is to watch while you do your fun blighting regions, destroying armies and bringing flesh eaters to this.

As I said: There are some things that have solutions. There are others that don't, or that don't have a solution of the puzzle kind. For example, early on in the invasion, someone thought that the Nightfalls could be killed by a scroll of Daimon Banishment. It turned out that they can't. You have to kill them in battle or execute them or whatever, you can't just pop a scroll and be done with them.

That's what I mean with "there's no Deus Ex Machina". There is no one artifact or scroll or puzzle solution or whatever that you can click on and you get a "congratulations, you solved the invasion" message.



I don't know how often I have to repeat this. When I complain about players not sharing information, I am not complaining that they don't put the 10 pieces of the everything-is-solved puzzle together! I am really thinking about basic information like how many Daimons have been sighted where. For example, how many in the north know at this time where Midnight of the South is and if he can or can not pop out of the Blight at any time to attack your border regions?

How many people in the game have realized that the Daimons have changed tactics a few times during the invasion? And what their current strategy is? I personally think it is blatantly obvious as soon as you share what they are each doing. Almost no interpretation necessary. Knowing what your enemy is up to is an important part of knowing how to fight him.


In the end, thinking OOC, it is not a defeatist speech, but a more realistic one, that unless Tom changes his mind and start giving answers to the puzzles that don't exists, BT is going down, he just need to admit it to everyone that it is going to happen. This invasion is just to that is happens in a glorious way, that we can all go down fighting with honor(except for IVF of course).

Whether or not BT is doomed is still undecided and will be decided by how the invasion turns out.

Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Naidraug on March 20, 2012, 02:34:11 PM
No, I haven't. But understanding the cause for everything is not a requirement, either. There's a lot of info that is given only to people in a certain region, or only on the ruler channel or whatever, and that's fine. Some things become public after the event - like the blighting of Villriil, which was a secret operation right until it all went horribly wrong (or right, for me).

Really, if you want to enjoy the invasion, the best advise I can give is to play it like a roleplaying game and not having too much of a gamer mindset. There's things going on you will likely never find out. Which is ok, because there are other things going on that you witness, but those on the other side of the island will likely never learn about. It is these local events that ensure that the invasion isn't the same for everyone.

The only problem is that even on the rulers channel we haven't had anything for the last month, we used to have Overlod blabbering but since the failed incursion in the north

Now, if the role-play part actually mattered for the game, and for the invasion, it would be a good way to do it. But as I said, I can't just role-play "I participated in ritual X so now I can unblight this region" for that to be true. It won't happen. No matter what I role-play, in the end, what will count for a victory or defeat is the game.

We don't even have role-play from the Sons or the daimon priests coming our way, why would we focus more on the same or do it more than we already do?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on March 20, 2012, 02:40:40 PM
The only problem is that even on the rulers channel we haven't had anything for the last month, we used to have Overlod blabbering but since the failed incursion in the north

Yes, funny, isn't it. The guy used to talk so much and then suddenly - silence. But it's not like anyone would've so much as mention it, much less talk to him. What a novel idea! Restarting a conversation, asking what's up. Can't really demand that of the players.

We don't even have role-play from the Sons or the daimon priests coming our way, why would we focus more on the same or do it more than we already do?

Those who bothered to initiate something have.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Naidraug on March 20, 2012, 02:53:53 PM
Yes, funny, isn't it. The guy used to talk so much and then suddenly - silence. But it's not like anyone would've so much as mention it, much less talk to him. What a novel idea! Restarting a conversation, asking what's up. Can't really demand that of the players.

Oh we have another PUZZLE then? Thought we didn't have one of those...

Those who bothered to initiate something have.

Oh right, so we have an invading army, with stronger force, that sends priests to our lands to convert the people and WE have to get to them and ask: WHY U NO SPEAK? Yeah makes perfect sense...Maybe I should start a role-play about everything being a dream and that overlord actually is just a little mouse eating my cheese...everything will be better then...just need to RP it... 
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on March 20, 2012, 05:17:39 PM
This is kind of how the Invasions play out in my experience. I guess what Tom is saying is that there are no Archons coming this time to suddenly end the Invasion all at once. That doesn't (apparently) mean that there aren't things we need to figure out if we want to have a chance.

Incidentally Tom, I think that's what people are talking about anyway when they talk about puzzles. There are things we have to work out to have a chance, and it would seem that a lot of people (myself included) feel like we're not getting anywhere close to finding any answers. I mean, I don't mind just fighting daimons and what not, but it's beginning to feel a little hopeless and frankly I don't really feel like I'm going to learn anything special by trying to talk to any of the NPC's because they cannot be trusted. Anything they say of any substance is going to be a lie or misdirection of some sort, assuming there's any substance at all. As in the last Invasion, there needs to be some alternate source of information other than the enemies themselves, who obviously have zero interest in being truthful with us. That or whatever observable clues are out there need to be more obvious. If they were obvious enough, someone would have figured something out already, but as far as I can tell the only thing we've determined with any accuracy beyond some of the gross mechanics under which the daimon units operate is how regions get blighted. While this is helpful in the strategic sense in foiling the daimons efforts to blight regions, it's not really any help at all in giving us the advantage we need to start defeating the daimons on a regular basis.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Indirik on March 20, 2012, 05:19:51 PM
I still want to know whatever happened with the "this is how you travel through the blight" stuff. Everyone was talking about it, then it just disappeared. I've tried to restart the discussion, but no one is responding. :(
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Telrunya on March 20, 2012, 05:23:24 PM
Last I heard about that is Adventurers looking for Wizards to create amulets to travel through the Blight. That was 4 days ago. Not sure if that was based on anything though.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on March 20, 2012, 08:28:18 PM
Oh we have another PUZZLE then? Thought we didn't have one of those...

Are you trying to piss me off or do you write stuff without thinking what it sounds like?

I don't see why I should put up with an attitude like that. I already put several hours every day into this, I don't have time for crap like this in addition. This is the last reply you'll get from me. If you don't like the invasion, play on some other island. I just stopped giving a damn what you think about it.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chaotrance13 on March 20, 2012, 08:46:34 PM
Those who bothered to initiate something have.

To be fair, I tried to RP with 11th Son regarding his arrest. But I thoughtlessly arrested him straight after sending the message instead of giving you a chance to respond. Maybe next time I encounter one of the Daimon commanders as Malos (which will be soon, I promise), I'll give you a chance to repent for your sins! ;)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: fodder on March 20, 2012, 09:16:46 PM
heh... oocly..the Order of Alluran is basically dead... only priest around are the 2 locked accounts.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Indirik on March 20, 2012, 09:27:24 PM
Maybe the fourth time it dies will be the final death?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on March 20, 2012, 11:26:32 PM
Well I'd be a bit surprised if that player was allowed to rejoin the game after being identified as a multi-cheater not once but twice (that I know of)...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on March 20, 2012, 11:47:23 PM
heh... oocly..the Order of Alluran is basically dead... only priest around are the 2 locked accounts.

We will celebrate when it happens.

Well I'd be a bit surprised if that player was allowed to rejoin the game after being identified as a multi-cheater not once but twice (that I know of)...

What now?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: De-Legro on March 21, 2012, 12:15:57 AM
Oh we have another PUZZLE then? Thought we didn't have one of those...

Oh right, so we have an invading army, with stronger force, that sends priests to our lands to convert the people and WE have to get to them and ask: WHY U NO SPEAK? Yeah makes perfect sense...Maybe I should start a role-play about everything being a dream and that overlord actually is just a little mouse eating my cheese...everything will be better then...just need to RP it...

Thats not a puzzle, its common sense. In a work environment if a college you are working with suddenly stops sending emails, what do you do. Oh yeah maybe send a email and try and see what is going on. So we have a gloating Overlord suddenly go silent. Perhaps that implies things aren't going the way he wants, whatever the case a quick message would seem to be in order. After all its not like you don't have an established line of correspondence.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on March 21, 2012, 12:59:18 AM
What now?

This incarnation of the Psyche family was the second. The original was also locked for multi-cheating. His first round of multis tore apart Alluran sometime between the Third and Fourth Invasions, after I joined Fronen but before I had a character in Riombara. It was the same player this time around, or at least I remember him telling all of us he was when he showed up.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Naidraug on March 21, 2012, 01:10:58 AM
Are you trying to piss me off or do you write stuff without thinking what it sounds like?

I don't see why I should put up with an attitude like that. I already put several hours every day into this, I don't have time for crap like this in addition. This is the last reply you'll get from me. If you don't like the invasion, play on some other island. I just stopped giving a damn what you think about it.

I just replied following the same attitude you replied me first, same ironic line as you. It is bad to be on the other side right?

You are not the only one that put several hours every day into this. I believe everyone that is here does that.

If you stop to giving a damn about anyone who criticize you, well, this game should be perfect by now then, with all the critics gone...

PS: I did not started this wanting to piss anyone off, and I do think when i write, specially because English is not my first language, so i have to think it and translate it, so yeah i think it when i write. I thought this was a topic to discuss the Fifth invasion, so that's what I am doing, discussing it. You can't expect everyone to enjoy the way you are running things.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Naidraug on March 21, 2012, 01:20:17 AM
Thats not a puzzle, its common sense. In a work environment if a college you are working with suddenly stops sending emails, what do you do. Oh yeah maybe send a email and try and see what is going on. So we have a gloating Overlord suddenly go silent. Perhaps that implies things aren't going the way he wants, whatever the case a quick message would seem to be in order. After all its not like you don't have an established line of correspondence.

Yeah but when this college only sends crappy email you feel better that he stopped sending crappy emails.

And Geronus managed to summarize what I have being saying, if there is any clue that can give us a good advantage on the daimons, if there is anything. The way it is being dwelt with is not helping us to anything. And the only advice we have is we should role-play? As if this would help anything.

Even if we think this as a RPG, there can't be a role-play if the GM doesn't set the mood or doesn't RP your enemies, no RPG would go:

GM- you´re in medieval times, you're attacked by flesh eaters
player - how do they look like? How the leader looks like?
GM- Strong and you feel scared.

Even if we want to RP, with the daimons or anything, even to RP inside our own realm we need details.

And as I said before, RP won't help giving us advantage, game mechanics doesn't work that way. Game mechanics doesn't care about RP and does not support it to be a important and decisive thing on this game.

Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: De-Legro on March 21, 2012, 01:34:43 AM
Yeah but when this college only sends crappy email you feel better that he stopped sending crappy emails.

And Geronus managed to summarize what I have being saying, if there is any clue that can give us a good advantage on the daimons, if there is anything. The way it is being dwelt with is not helping us to anything. And the only advice we have is we should role-play? As if this would help anything.

Even if we think this as a RPG, there can't be a role-play if the GM doesn't set the mood or doesn't RP your enemies, no RPG would go:

GM- you´re in medieval times, you're attacked by flesh eaters
player - how do they look like? How the leader looks like?
GM- Strong and you feel scared.

Even if we want to RP, with the daimons or anything, even to RP inside our own realm we need details.

And as I said before, RP won't help giving us advantage, game mechanics doesn't work that way. Game mechanics doesn't care about RP and does not support it to be a important and decisive thing on this game.

Sigh, you know the ONLY advantage against the daimons this time around that is apparent from the forums and IC? Decent team work, co-ordination and communication between realms. Working out Daimon tactics is probably also helpful, but mostly to me it appears simple. Co-ordinate and arrest the damn priest, then kill them. Co-ordinate and meet the Daimon armies in force, prioritising regions that would result in blight if lost. There isn't some sort of items to find to give an advantage. Their isn't some magical trigger point of, oh we kill this particular daimon or defend this particular region and things will change, its war just like war against other realms.

And you are misunderstanding Tom with regards to RP. He isn't talking about sending out RP messages. He is talking about facing the damn threat like a noble. Its not about sending RP messages to Overlord, its about trying to re-establish communication so you regain a possible source of information. RP messages might make up some of the "communication", I would think standard letters would be useful though.

Perhaps if people were to stop hoping for a way to travel through the blight, or to unblight regions and just focused on stopping the Daimons from doing any more damage you would make more progress.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Naidraug on March 21, 2012, 01:46:24 AM
Sigh, you know the ONLY advantage against the daimons this time around that is apparent from the forums and IC? Decent team work, co-ordination and communication between realms. Working out Daimon tactics is probably also helpful, but mostly to me it appears simple. Co-ordinate and arrest the damn priest, then kill them. Co-ordinate and meet the Daimon armies in force, prioritising regions that would result in blight if lost. There isn't some sort of items to find to give an advantage. Their isn't some magical trigger point of, oh we kill this particular daimon or defend this particular region and things will change, its war just like war against other realms.

And you are misunderstanding Tom with regards to RP. He isn't talking about sending out RP messages. He is talking about facing the damn threat like a noble. Its not about sending RP messages to Overlord, its about trying to re-establish communication so you regain a possible source of information. RP messages might make up some of the "communication", I would think standard letters would be useful though.

Perhaps if people were to stop hoping for a way to travel through the blight, or to unblight regions and just focused on stopping the Daimons from doing any more damage you would make more progress.

We do have that, that´s what made the daimons change tactics and attack more than one realm at once. But is hard to fight something you can't defeat, what is the point on killing something if on the next turn, it will be alive again? None. There is no magical trick? Ok so don't start claiming that there is a way to defeat the daimons, that there are things we need to get it, when it is not possible and there is nothing to get.

As I said before, if Tom had said from the begging "I want to sink the island, but i want you all go down fighting and with honor" then I´d be ok with that.

But no, if there is a way to defeat them, then there is a way to defeat them. We know we can't treat this like a normal war because it ain't. Overlord can summon troops from where he wants whenever he wants. We can't, our troops will eventually be gone, no matter the realm, so all we can do is what we know (and again the game mechanics allows it): fight every turn. But it is hard to fight every turn, when your enemy goes back to life every time you kill it.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Zakilevo on March 21, 2012, 02:09:46 AM
You are doing nothing but complain. You are complaining because you can't find a way to defeat daimons since they are stronger than you and come back every turn. You want Tom to show you the way instead of trying to find a way yourself. If you dislike the invasion, you can always pause or move out of BT like I did. While I led Enweil, I enjoyed battles themselves, didn't care much about beating them. Once Enweil practically died, I paused because it just became boring from that point.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: De-Legro on March 21, 2012, 02:17:15 AM
We do have that, that´s what made the daimons change tactics and attack more than one realm at once. But is hard to fight something you can't defeat, what is the point on killing something if on the next turn, it will be alive again? None. There is no magical trick? Ok so don't start claiming that there is a way to defeat the daimons, that there are things we need to get it, when it is not possible and there is nothing to get.

As I said before, if Tom had said from the begging "I want to sink the island, but i want you all go down fighting and with honor" then I´d be ok with that.

But no, if there is a way to defeat them, then there is a way to defeat them. We know we can't treat this like a normal war because it ain't. Overlord can summon troops from where he wants whenever he wants. We can't, our troops will eventually be gone, no matter the realm, so all we can do is what we know (and again the game mechanics allows it): fight every turn. But it is hard to fight every turn, when your enemy goes back to life every time you kill it.

Um there is a way to defeat them. Overlord has recruitment restrictions, this has been said several times across several invasions. NPC forces ALWAYS have something that defines where and how much they can recruit. The fact your early successes FORCED a tactics change should prove they are defeat able. If they were simply able to spam troops endlessly, there would have been little reason to change tactics would there. Tom could have just created forces big enough to take on your blobs and had some epic battles.

Try re-evaluating some of your assumptions, because they are very very wrong.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on March 21, 2012, 03:13:35 AM
Granted to everything you say, but there's no evidence that what Overlord is doing now is some sort of plan B. If we're winning they should be getting weaker. But wait! They're in fact stronger than ever now. This, as you might imagine, is a bit frustrating.

We'll keep doing what we're doing because we have no other choice, but the reason people keep looking for magic solutions is that there is no obvious way to WIN. What we have here is an apparently endless fight against a mutating enemy that simply changes tactics every time we have him figured out (sorta). We kill the leaders - they come back. We destroy armies, at great cost, and a day later the same commander shows up with a brand new one.

*Edit: Seems I hit the post button too soon. Here's the rest of it.*

I have heard so many times that the Invaders have limited resources and never once have I ever seen any indication that the limits actually impose a practical restriction. The Monsters in the Fourth invasion had literally endless hordes. We must have destroyed thousands of them with the Temple of Light alone, not to mention what they threw away on some of their sieges, and they just came back every single time with a brand new army. They had so many troops that they used to drop hundreds of monsters at a time off as militia units  to use *as an expendable attack force* in fortified enemy regions. The daimons and undead also never showed any sign of even approaching a limit to their forces. Anyone else remember when the daimons had 100,000 CS in a single region?

To be fair, I've seen things in this Invasion that suggest there might be some actual restrictions this time (like the army of 'Refitted Daimons' that just showed up in Sandlakes, and that bizarre little episode where three commanders recruited units of peasants), but unless these Flesheaters are Overlord's last gasp, I'm going to go ahead and say that there is no end in sight. I mean, let's say we keep on beating his armies (by no means a given) and whittle him down. Does he just... Give up eventually? Run out of armies and retreat sullenly into the Blight, ne'er to be seen again until the Sixth Invasion? If so I kinda wish that had been more clear from the beginning. I know Tom keeps yelling 'THERE'S NO MAGIC BULLET', but when things happen like what happened in Vilriil, you can't help wondering, plus in the last two Invasions there definitely were things that had to be done aside from just fending off the Invaders.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: fodder on March 21, 2012, 07:31:20 AM
We will celebrate when it happens.

What now?

mind you... eh.. perhaps it'll "live" as long as the locked account is around (and not killed) and as long as local/global treasuries has dole? - would tend be lots of money i would imagine.

---
the monsters did go around eating people to gain troops.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on March 21, 2012, 09:29:11 AM
As I said before, if Tom had said from the begging "I want to sink the island, but i want you all go down fighting and with honor" then I´d be ok with that.

I have said from the beginning that the island could sink, or it could not, it all depends on how things turn out.
I am really, really angry now. You better make yourself scarce for a while, because there is one thing I hate with a passion and that is people who are spreading lies even after they have been corrected on them multiple times.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Naidraug on March 21, 2012, 01:04:26 PM
I have said from the beginning that the island could sink, or it could not, it all depends on how things turn out.
I am really, really angry now. You better make yourself scarce for a while, because there is one thing I hate with a passion and that is people who are spreading lies even after they have been corrected on them multiple times.

I know that you said from the beginning that the island could sink. And i am not spreading lies.

Now what i said there was, that if you have said "The Island will sink." - just that. with out the "or it could not..." part, I'd be ok with that.

But adding the "or it could not" give everyone a hope that we can beat them, and as Geronus said on the above post, is not happening, and can be frustrating...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Indirik on March 21, 2012, 02:01:34 PM
mind you... eh.. perhaps it'll "live" as long as the locked account is around (and not killed) and as long as local/global treasuries has dole? - would tend be lots of money i would imagine.
A paused priest still counts as a priest for the purposes of maintaining a religion. Locked accounts are no exception.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Pike on March 21, 2012, 03:32:05 PM
I am a bit late into this discussion but I think tom means there will be no puzzle to instantly win the invasion.    There probably is little things we need to figure out in order to win.  Will it be easy no.  Will it be possible yes.  What is the point in complaining about how hard it is.  It is just a game.  Enjoy it for what it is.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Galle on March 21, 2012, 07:26:05 PM
There is a lot of complaining going on here, so I just wanted to say that I am thoroughly enjoying playing in this invasion, and I am not alone. It is frustrating at times, but that is the point, isn't it?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Telrunya on March 21, 2012, 07:28:56 PM
Exactly :)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on March 21, 2012, 07:55:10 PM
There is a lot of complaining going on here, so I just wanted to say that I am thoroughly enjoying playing in this invasion, and I am not alone. It is frustrating at times, but that is the point, isn't it?

More than you realize. I wasn't going to say it to any of the whiners, but has it occured to people that Overlord is also employing psychological warfare? Some of the action are intended to frustrate his enemies. It's a fine line between character and player frustration, so I've not done everything possible, but IC there is every intention of creating a feeling of total helplesness.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on March 21, 2012, 08:00:16 PM
It can be somewhat easy to get frustrated since there's no metric with which to measure success other than the extent to which you're not losing (which is not really a very satisfying metric to use).
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on March 21, 2012, 10:18:34 PM
It can be somewhat easy to get frustrated since there's no metric with which to measure success other than the extent to which you're not losing (which is not really a very satisfying metric to use).

Which is 100% intentional. Overlord goes to great lengths to hide any indicators that would tell you if you're making progress or not. I think bridging the time until the flesh eaters were ready with weak human troops was brilliant. I'm sure some people thought he's running out of Daimons, and were spiritually crushed when the flesh eaters appeared. :-)

Yes, I am evil.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on March 21, 2012, 10:31:59 PM
Which is 100% intentional. Overlord goes to great lengths to hide any indicators that would tell you if you're making progress or not. I think bridging the time until the flesh eaters were ready with weak human troops was brilliant. I'm sure some people thought he's running out of Daimons, and were spiritually crushed when the flesh eaters appeared. :-)

Yes, I am evil.

I figured.  ;)

It totally makes sense that Overlord would be keen to disguise any weaknesses or setbacks in an IC sense. Just remember that if you want to avoid losing your players you should occasionally reward them with some sort of indication of success or progress, or they'll begin to think that what they're doing is pointless and you'll end up with people reacting like Naidraug. Overlord doesn't have to come out and announce 'Woe is me!' to the entire island, but there could be something from time to time when we do good, you know? An RP Event with a hopeful tone, some sort of subtle indication that something good has happened...

In any case, I hope you understand that I'm not trying to criticize too much. My goal is generally just to try to communicate my own experience and in some cases to try to get to the heart of some of the things other people are saying. I hope that doing so is helpful and constructive, and that I don't sound like I'm whining, at least most of the time. I recognize that I might occasionally come off that way.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Anaris on March 21, 2012, 10:41:15 PM
Just remember that if you want to avoid losing your players you should occasionally reward them with some sort of indication of success or progress, or they'll begin to think that what they're doing is pointless and you'll end up with people reacting like Naidraug. Overlord doesn't have to come out and announce 'Woe is me!' to the entire island, but there could be something from time to time when we do good, you know? An RP Event with a hopeful tone, some sort of subtle indication that something good has happened...

I cannot overemphasize how important this is.

This is the first invasion since the Second where the players have absolutely no idea of their progress. There is no one at all they can talk to who isn't firmly under Overlord's control.

If you don't want people to decide, "Well, I guess Tom really does want BT to sink, no matter what we do. After all, nothing we do does more than make him change names and tactics," you need to provide something that gives at least a vague indicator of how far we are away from total disaster. Something that's not under Overlord's control.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on March 21, 2012, 11:18:07 PM
A paused priest still counts as a priest for the purposes of maintaining a religion. Locked accounts are no exception.

Great. No way to arrest him, then. That's just wounderful.

When will the account be deleted?

Or, Rio could just sack all the temples...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on March 21, 2012, 11:26:13 PM
It totally makes sense that Overlord would be keen to disguise any weaknesses or setbacks in an IC sense. Just remember that if you want to avoid losing your players you should occasionally reward them with some sort of indication of success or progress, or they'll begin to think that what they're doing is pointless

There are several such indicators. A few people have followed them actively. Like with the deus-ex-machina, there's no "progress indicator", but there are some things that obviously don't change much and some things that do.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on March 21, 2012, 11:28:14 PM
This is the first invasion since the Second where the players have absolutely no idea of their progress. There is no one at all they can talk to who isn't firmly under Overlord's control.

Correct, and intentional.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on March 21, 2012, 11:58:53 PM
Great. No way to arrest him, then. That's just wounderful.

When will the account be deleted?

Or, Rio could just sack all the temples...

I'm fairly certain that's our intent, though there might be some in rogue regions at this point.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on March 22, 2012, 12:09:47 AM
There are several such indicators. A few people have followed them actively. Like with the deus-ex-machina, there's no "progress indicator", but there are some things that obviously don't change much and some things that do.

I would hazard a guess and say that it's probably not very clear what exactly these indicators are indicating. I certainly can't think of any that appear meaningful other than the evolution of daimon military strength over time, but since we don't (and apparently never will) understand their recruitment mechanisms and/or resource restrictions, it's impossible for a player to say with any certainty whether the cause of any given period of decline is a genuine loss of capability or simply a normal statistical variance due to the fortunes of war. We're basically attempting to play a game we don't understand and calculate the score without knowing the rules. So far the only sense of accomplishment I've really gotten other than winning a battle here and there is when we figure out one of the rules, but not one thing I've learned has suggested how and when this might end. It's just helping us to play the game better (I hope).
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: JPierreD on March 22, 2012, 01:35:07 AM
Honestly? I'd be the one complaining - or not playing in BT at all - if Tom just came out and said if the island is or is not going to be sunk. What fun is there in that?

Things are changing, Overlord is adjusting his tactics, we are succeeding in some places and failing in others. What else do you want? If you want the invasion to end, then move to an island without invaders, but if you want the invasion's experience to improve then make suggestions politely.

I am personally having a lot of fun, and I am in Riombara, realm in a terrible position, cut off from all his allies, only close to one realm that wants us dead and another that has surrendered to Overlord. If there is a place in where people should be frustrated and hopeless, well, the south is that place.

Who says this is about having countless minions thrown at us, the heroes, so we can defeat them before we meet the boss, and rescue the princess?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on March 22, 2012, 01:59:37 AM
I figured.  ;)

It totally makes sense that Overlord would be keen to disguise any weaknesses or setbacks in an IC sense. Just remember that if you want to avoid losing your players you should occasionally reward them with some sort of indication of success or progress, or they'll begin to think that what they're doing is pointless and you'll end up with people reacting like Naidraug. Overlord doesn't have to come out and announce 'Woe is me!' to the entire island, but there could be something from time to time when we do good, you know? An RP Event with a hopeful tone, some sort of subtle indication that something good has happened...

In any case, I hope you understand that I'm not trying to criticize too much. My goal is generally just to try to communicate my own experience and in some cases to try to get to the heart of some of the things other people are saying. I hope that doing so is helpful and constructive, and that I don't sound like I'm whining, at least most of the time. I recognize that I might occasionally come off that way.

My character already considers that his silence is due to a lack of things to gloat about.

Overlord is usually more revealing by what he doesn't say than by what he does say.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on March 22, 2012, 02:04:36 AM
I cannot overemphasize how important this is.

This is the first invasion since the Second where the players have absolutely no idea of their progress. There is no one at all they can talk to who isn't firmly under Overlord's control.

If you don't want people to decide, "Well, I guess Tom really does want BT to sink, no matter what we do. After all, nothing we do does more than make him change names and tactics," you need to provide something that gives at least a vague indicator of how far we are away from total disaster. Something that's not under Overlord's control.

I disagree.

I feel like I know more of our progress in this invasion than I did in the last two. I don't feel like I can do !@#$ about it, given how small our economy is, but still I feel like I know how the invaders are doing overall. In the last two invasions, it felt like everything was preset, and things were bound to happen on a timer instead of in reaction to player actions. Waiting it out always felt like the best strategy, and therefore the best policies for survival was to redirect the invaders on other realms as much as possible by early-invasion deals with the GM factions.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on March 22, 2012, 02:17:24 AM
I'm fairly certain that's our intent, though there might be some in rogue regions at this point.

When Hvrek so nicely gave us a religion spread, all temples were located in Riombara.

I assume he built one in Fwuvoghor, but I OOC understood that the daimons would go and destroy it. They might not have, though, but I'm more enclined to believe that Riombarans failed to do as they said they would. Could be both, however.

Honestly? I'd be the one complaining - or not playing in BT at all - if Tom just came out and said if the island is or is not going to be sunk. What fun is there in that?

Things are changing, Overlord is adjusting his tactics, we are succeeding in some places and failing in others. What else do you want? If you want the invasion to end, then move to an island without invaders, but if you want the invasion's experience to improve then make suggestions politely.

I am personally having a lot of fun, and I am in Riombara, realm in a terrible position, cut off from all his allies, only close to one realm that wants us dead and another that has surrendered to Overlord. If there is a place in where people should be frustrated and hopeless, well, the south is that place.

Who says this is about having countless minions thrown at us, the heroes, so we can defeat them before we meet the boss, and rescue the princess?

I agree. Not knowing makes it more interesting. It always felt lame in the last two invasions how our actions seemed meaningless, that we were all just lab rats for the GMs to do with as they pleased.

As for Rio, think about us!

We are the smallest realm on BT, relying on the poorest regions, we are completely surrounded by the blight, it would take very little to blight our capital, our ally is crippled, and the only other realm in the area is a hostile realm with a strong military still.

We'll fight like wolverines, but our bite is still pretty small. We don't have any advies to go hunt for scrolls for us either, nor many nobles to counter daimon worship that seeps from the blight.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Indirik on March 22, 2012, 03:01:38 AM
When will the account be deleted?
There is a semi-regular schedule for when inactive accounts get deleted. But I thought someone said that the player had already deleted the locked accounts?

Quote
Or, Rio could just sack all the temples...
That would work, too.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Indirik on March 22, 2012, 03:03:27 AM
I feel like I know more of our progress in this invasion than I did in the last two.
I admit that I don't know much of anything about the invasion progress. I can't seem to get any information out of anyone, other than basic reports of "Midnight is here", "Darkest hour is there", "Can anyone send help?" If anyone is doing anything, or things are being figured out, then they're being done in circles I'm not it.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on March 22, 2012, 03:23:06 AM
I admit that I don't know much of anything about the invasion progress. I can't seem to get any information out of anyone, other than basic reports of "Midnight is here", "Darkest hour is there", "Can anyone send help?" If anyone is doing anything, or things are being figured out, then they're being done in circles I'm not it.

Someone mentioned you tipped him off about the flesheaters' 'special ability'. Annoyingly, my own general has not seen fit to pass on that information to me.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on March 22, 2012, 08:32:16 AM
We're basically attempting to play a game we don't understand and calculate the score without knowing the rules.

Which is why I'm telling you to be more of a roleplayer and less of a gamer. It'll dramatically improve your enjoyment.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Gustav Kuriga on March 22, 2012, 10:08:59 AM
Tom, even a roleplay game has very basic rules for both enemies and allies that all the players will understand. people are complaining not because they dont know the entire story, such as would be the case in a true roleplay, but they dont understand the very basic rules of the game they are playing. Oh, and one thing you should understand. Role-play IS a form of game.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chaotrance13 on March 22, 2012, 10:16:13 AM
Someone mentioned you tipped him off about the flesheaters' 'special ability'. Annoyingly, my own general has not seen fit to pass on that information to me.

Who's "someone"? The cat's mother? I have a name, you know.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on March 22, 2012, 12:09:48 PM
Tom, even a roleplay game has very basic rules for both enemies and allies that all the players will understand.

I play a lot of LARP, much of which has no such rules. And it works great.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: fodder on March 22, 2012, 12:25:42 PM
There is a semi-regular schedule for when inactive accounts get deleted. But I thought someone said that the player had already deleted the locked accounts?
That would work, too.
looks like both are gone now. (1 was deleted, the other one was hanging around then)... can't be that long before the temples go kaput then.. unless someone converts XD
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on March 22, 2012, 12:47:40 PM
I admit that I don't know much of anything about the invasion progress. I can't seem to get any information out of anyone, other than basic reports of "Midnight is here", "Darkest hour is there", "Can anyone send help?" If anyone is doing anything, or things are being figured out, then they're being done in circles I'm not it.

I don't "know" as much as I "feel". I'm probably the ruler who knows the least, being the least liked one and having allies that often can't be bothered to pass on important info.

Like right now, it feels like the daimons are getting their asses kicked, despite horrendous levels of information sharing and cooperation from the human realms.

I play a lot of LARP, much of which has no such rules. And it works great.

I mostly agree. Focus on what you can do instead of what you can't. Then consider any progress on the thing you can't control as a bonus. Makes it less frustrating.

Also, I really feel like Tom's really holding back to give us a chance. If I understand some of the daimons' abilities well, and they were used in an optimal manner, I'm pretty sure Sint, Nothoi, and Fheuv'n could have been crushed a long, long time ago. I'm pretty confident I could have. But it would have been cheap as hell and very frustrating for the players. He's giving us plenty of chances.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Naidraug on March 22, 2012, 01:03:07 PM
I play a lot of LARP, much of which has no such rules. And it works great.

I would agree to that IF this was a LARP, or a full RPG, but it is not. It is a web-browser game with some role-playing parts [that can be, and usually are optional].

I don't "know" as much as I "feel". I'm probably the ruler who knows the least, being the least liked one and having allies that often can't be bothered to pass on important info.

Like right now, it feels like the daimons are getting their asses kicked, despite horrendous levels of information sharing and cooperation from the human realms.

It is more or less, the cooperation is, or at least was, better, but now with every realm being attacked on the north it is harder to send aid to others.

On the information, well there is little, and for what i could tell, you're excluded from most of it
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: De-Legro on March 22, 2012, 01:05:59 PM
I play a lot of LARP, much of which has no such rules. And it works great.

Besides they understand the basic rules of the game. Turns, CS, actions, orders these are all the same as always.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on March 22, 2012, 01:13:12 PM
Who's "someone"? The cat's mother? I have a name, you know.

Yes, but I was too lazy to scroll back through and find your post  ;D
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on March 22, 2012, 01:16:57 PM
On the information, well there is little, and for what i could tell, you're excluded from most of it

Indeed.

Hence why cultural assimilation and reunification with Enweil is a greater priority to fighting the daimons on my todo list. Why focus on things one can't control, when one has an empire to build!
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on March 22, 2012, 01:21:10 PM
Which is why I'm telling you to be more of a roleplayer and less of a gamer. It'll dramatically improve your enjoyment.

What, you mean go with the flow? Enjoy it for what it is? I am, more or less, or trying to. I'm doing what I can given what I know and it's definitely better than the last Invasion was where I felt like the players were almost completely powerless. It just doesn't feel like we're really getting anywhere. Like we're kind of treading water while the downward suction is slowly increasing.

Again, not really trying to complain here. Just making some observations. I guess I get what you're trying to do, but as you pointed out earlier, it's a very fine line between demoralizing the characters and demoralizing the players. I still maintain that the overall experience could be improved a bit with a few indicators of progress here and there, unless you maintain that there already are enough and that we should be able to see them if we look for them. Personally I don't really see them, but maybe I just don't know what I'm looking at.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on March 22, 2012, 01:24:03 PM
What, you mean go with the flow? Enjoy it for what it is? I am, more or less, or trying to. I'm doing what I can given what I know and it's definitely better than the last Invasion was where I felt like the players were almost completely powerless. It just doesn't feel like we're really getting anywhere. Like we're kind of treading water while the downward suction is slowly increasing.

Again, not really trying to complain here. Just making some observations. I guess I get what you're trying to do, but as you pointed out earlier, it's a very fine line between demoralizing the characters and demoralizing the players. I still maintain that the overall experience could be improved a bit with a few indicators of progress here and there, unless you maintain that there already are enough and that we should be able to see them if we look for them. Personally I don't really see them, but maybe I just don't know what I'm looking at.

Wars of attrition are lost by whoever quits first. ;)

Just keep defeating daimon armies, retaking their regions, converting their followers, and executing as many of their leaders as you can.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Indirik on March 22, 2012, 04:11:55 PM
One of our guys go jumped by the flesh eaters the first turn they showed up. When we fought them again two days later we compared all the scout and battle reports. We reported that to the Draconic Union, and I think OG used that info to make a quick attack, knowing they would lose, but hoping to thin them out before they got too strong.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chaotrance13 on March 22, 2012, 05:51:23 PM
One of our guys go jumped by the flesh eaters the first turn they showed up. When we fought them again two days later we compared all the scout and battle reports. We reported that to the Draconic Union, and I think OG used that info to make a quick attack, knowing they would lose, but hoping to thin them out before they got too strong.

That was my strategy exactly. Unfortunately, a combination of scroll use plus continuing genocides made staying any longer than we did pointless.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: fodder on March 22, 2012, 06:32:43 PM
... i didn't even know there's such a thing as draconic union... and branded the refounded religion as draconic order XD
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Draco Tanos on March 22, 2012, 06:39:58 PM
Since before the invasion.  But the Draco branch of the Tanos family thanks you for your worship.

Congrats to Sint in their win against the daimons a few minutes ago!
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on March 22, 2012, 07:10:24 PM
That was my strategy exactly. Unfortunately, a combination of scroll use plus continuing genocides made staying any longer than we did pointless.

Thalmarkin had 10k CS so closeby at that moment... :/
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chaotrance13 on March 22, 2012, 08:18:02 PM
Thalmarkin had 10k CS so closeby at that moment... :/

Yeah, live and learn on that one unfortunately. But there you go, we learned how they worked and we now "just" have to beat them back into the Netherworld.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on March 23, 2012, 12:44:34 PM
So... I don't know about you guys but I've just called dibs on Overlord's horns.

Don't worry though, there's still plenty to go around! A nice tail, some scales, a /heart/? (Damn, wish I called dibs on that... Oh well, you can't drink mead out of a heart...properly.)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on March 23, 2012, 01:17:05 PM
Damn daimons fought us with archers in Wheling, then switched with cavalry for Sandlakes.

We had everyone at the front in skirmish formations... when the charge came in, it was a massacre...  :'(
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on March 23, 2012, 01:23:56 PM
Ouch... Shoulda seen that one coming though. I maintain you can often tell what units are what ahead of time if you pay attention to CS numbers.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Telrunya on March 23, 2012, 01:27:59 PM
Oh, those pesky trolling Daimons! Overlord is still too busy with the weather though. I wonder if he'll react to IVF's taunt this time. Or he doesn't feel like he can / has the time for gloating.

Quote
The Weather Today   (3 hours, 47 minutes ago)
The clouds are slowly lifting, and temperatures are returning to normal. Except in the north, where they continue to plummet until they reach record lows.
This time around, however, the peasants shake their heads, take out an additional item of clothing, and continue to plow the fields.

The Southern Weather is fine for now. The North it's a bit chilly. I wonder if peasants with additional clothing taste better to the Flesh-Eaters ;)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on March 23, 2012, 01:30:35 PM
My god, that's it! The Daimons' grand plan, it all makes sense now.

They're going to kill us with CLIMATE CHANGE!
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Bael on March 23, 2012, 08:20:50 PM
My god, that's it! The Daimons' grand plan, it all makes sense now.

They're going to kill us with CLIMATE CHANGE!

Just so long as its not with too much methane, we should be ok...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: fodder on March 23, 2012, 08:54:50 PM
Since before the invasion.  But the Draco branch of the Tanos family thanks you for your worship.

Congrats to Sint in their win against the daimons a few minutes ago!

eh? i just refounded new way of the dragon under another name. a combo of "The Order" in AT and "New way of the dragon" in bt.

now if i can somehow find a way to contact someone in sint whose family had something to do with new way of the dragon...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on March 24, 2012, 04:22:08 AM
eh? i just refounded new way of the dragon under another name. a combo of "The Order" in AT and "New way of the dragon" in bt.

now if i can somehow find a way to contact someone in sint whose family had something to do with new way of the dragon...

So I have a new religion to declare evil?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Thunthorn on March 24, 2012, 08:18:32 AM
So... I don't know about you guys but I've just called dibs on Overlord's horns.

Don't worry though, there's still plenty to go around! A nice tail, some scales, a /heart/? (Damn, wish I called dibs on that... Oh well, you can't drink mead out of a heart...properly.)

His heart is mine! I have long sworn promised to eat it to prove that Daimons are lower than us in the food chain. You can have the horns they are probably inedible anyway.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: fodder on March 24, 2012, 08:56:58 AM
So I have a new religion to declare evil?

that's sort of 1 thing about new religions.. why is it that religious heads don't get an announcement saying a new one has been founded... but can see it anyway via religion view settings, if they look often enough?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Draco Tanos on March 24, 2012, 09:42:30 AM
Never made sense to me either.  Go make a development proposal :P
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: mikm on March 24, 2012, 10:49:56 AM
The big problem here is the blight. Every region lost can not be recovered.
Will there be a way to get rid of it one day?
Bleutera is geting smaller and smaller.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on March 24, 2012, 05:18:01 PM
that's sort of 1 thing about new religions.. why is it that religious heads don't get an announcement saying a new one has been founded... but can see it anyway via religion view settings, if they look often enough?

But rulers get it. Spot the mistake.

If your faith isn't new from this week, I think I actually already declared it evil.

The big problem here is the blight. Every region lost can not be recovered.
Will there be a way to get rid of it one day?
Bleutera is geting smaller and smaller.


Not that I know of. And I suspect that if we find a way to do it, the ones with the means to do it will probably be Sint an OG.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: fodder on March 24, 2012, 05:24:08 PM
someone pointed out the locked morrows might just be auto-paused.. anyway.. don't know. still half dead i guess.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on March 24, 2012, 05:28:49 PM
someone pointed out the locked morrows might just be auto-paused.. anyway.. don't know. still half dead i guess.

Quote
Foreign Leave   (9 days, 8 hours ago)
Merlyn Morrow, Great Chamberlain of Fwuvoghor, Ambassador of Fwuvoghor has abdicated (automatically, due to inactivity).

Foreign Leave   (9 days, 8 hours ago)
Felix Morrow, High Treasurer of Fwuvoghor, Ambassador of Fwuvoghor has abdicated (automatically, due to inactivity).
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Telrunya on March 24, 2012, 06:14:50 PM
The family is paused and locked.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: fodder on March 24, 2012, 10:06:20 PM
that is not in question. only thing is when they'll disappear, thus leading alluran to collapse "naturally" without a priest.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: DoctorHarte on March 25, 2012, 07:09:38 AM
My personal favorite part about the battle today in Bisana:

Overlord has been wounded by Random Untrained Guys With Forks (24).
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Indirik on March 25, 2012, 03:56:47 PM
It is a rather silly name. But from what I've seen, the name is just about the exact opposite of what they are.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Telrunya on March 25, 2012, 04:14:05 PM
Quote
Letter from 10th Son   (just in)
Message sent to the Rulers of Beluaterra (10 recipients)
There is no point in attacking my brothers or me, or the leaders of the Netherworld. A few thousand more sacrifices and the ritual will be complete.

10th Son (Priest of Daimon Worship)

*drumroll*
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on March 25, 2012, 04:17:04 PM
Whenever they say "there's no point in doing X because of Y", I consider that it becomes precisely the best time to do X, because it strongly suggests that doing X has an important role in Y.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Telrunya on March 25, 2012, 04:19:20 PM
Yes, but that sounds rather obvious as well :P Maybe they WANT you to think that and attack the Daimons more, so they can use the fallen soldiers in battle as sacrifices! ;)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: JPierreD on March 25, 2012, 04:20:35 PM
It is a rather silly name. But from what I've seen, the name is just about the exact opposite of what they are.

Around 1500 CS of SF. Indeed they are hardly random untrained guys with forks.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on March 25, 2012, 04:24:28 PM
Yes, but that sounds rather obvious as well :P Maybe they WANT you to think that and attack the Daimons more, so they can use the fallen soldiers in battle as sacrifices! ;)

Maybe they do.

But if they did, then they could just have remained silent, and we would have continued doing what we were.

Regardless of what they say, one must give himself a certain list of "truths" to extrapolate from, otherwise no logical conclusions can ever be achieved. One such "truths" that is generally spread is that "daimons are innately evil". The major "truth" that I go by, however, is that "death makes weaker". Else they'd just suicide themselves 'till they were gods. As such, regardless of what the daimons say or do, I'll always consider killing them to be a good idea, regardless of whether it's the best idea or not.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Iltaran on March 26, 2012, 10:18:04 AM
As such, regardless of what the daimons say or do, I'll always consider killing them to be a good idea, regardless of whether it's the best idea or not.

My feelings precisely.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: mikm on March 26, 2012, 12:30:22 PM
Strange how I haven't a single noble executed  by daimons. There were plenty of executions in the last invasion. Or maybe some deportions? Both would criple the human realms.
And it's not like they do not get caught- they do quite a lot.


Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on March 26, 2012, 12:41:27 PM
OOC reaons. Don't want to ruin the fun for anyone. Though I've been tempted to use the deportation button a few times, especially when I had government members in my custody.

Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: mikm on March 26, 2012, 12:45:58 PM
This whole invasion feels way to soft.
If only there was an IC reason to not  kill nobles. Like persuade captured noble to join netherworld and give them some strong units  to crush their former realms with.

Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on March 26, 2012, 02:11:26 PM
A lot of people pay the ransom as quickly as possible, though.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on March 26, 2012, 02:12:40 PM
Also, seems like we lost control of blighted regions?

Army got dissolved (without notice), can't check the region page anymore, and lordship options no longer appear under command.

But there was never a takeover.

:(
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on March 26, 2012, 03:40:33 PM
This whole invasion feels way to soft.
If only there was an IC reason to not  kill nobles. Like persuade captured noble to join netherworld and give them some strong units  to crush their former realms with.

Well, he does torture everyone he gets his hands on, and IC some people believe that he uses the fear of his victims for some sort of sinister arcane purpose. If it's fear he feeds on, killing people would be counter-productive, wouldn't it?

Either way, considering how upset some people (Chenier) got over the mortality experiment in the last Invasion, I think it's just as well that Overlord isn't devouring every character he gets his hands on. I know I would be a bit unhappy if my non-hero character got killed because I got unlucky enough to get captured in a battle. He's one of my oldest characters, and I'm far from done having fun with him.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on March 26, 2012, 04:00:45 PM
But there was never a takeover.

So let me get this straight: For all you know, the region is permanently lost to a dark, impenetrable cloud of poisonous fog, almost everyone there is dead or worse, and you get neither gold nor food nor even reports from it anymore...

...and your complaint is that the Daimons never sent someone there with a flag to plant on top of the city gate?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: vonGenf on March 26, 2012, 04:28:48 PM
So let me get this straight: For all you know, the region is permanently lost to a dark, impenetrable cloud of poisonous fog, almost everyone there is dead or worse, and you get neither gold nor food nor even reports from it anymore...

...and your complaint is that the Daimons never sent someone there with a flag to plant on top of the city gate?

It makes sense, but this is not the way it had worked before (see:Enweilios).
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Telrunya on March 26, 2012, 06:33:54 PM
Quote
Movement in the Blight   (10 minutes ago)
As night approaches, your servants report that the edges of the Blight appear to be moving. It is hard to make out details, but they are scared.

This wasn't a continent-wide event though, but many seem to have received it.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Telrunya on March 26, 2012, 08:16:06 PM
The Northern Regions bordering a Blighted region are now 'half-dark'. Seems like some mass-Blighting might happen soon.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on March 26, 2012, 08:44:34 PM
WHAT IS HAPPENING!!
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on March 26, 2012, 08:49:51 PM
Doom! DOOM!
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: JPierreD on March 26, 2012, 09:00:44 PM
Arrows+Sun=Fight in the shade.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on March 27, 2012, 01:39:14 AM
So let me get this straight: For all you know, the region is permanently lost to a dark, impenetrable cloud of poisonous fog, almost everyone there is dead or worse, and you get neither gold nor food nor even reports from it anymore...

...and your complaint is that the Daimons never sent someone there with a flag to plant on top of the city gate?

But I did get some reports. Most importantly, though, I had the title of lord (giving me voting rights in our political system) and duke (giving me feudal rights over lordships). The region producing no income was an inconvenient, sure, but still. I was getting reports, and then all of a sudden I'm not lord with no notices about it.

Well, he does torture everyone he gets his hands on, and IC some people believe that he uses the fear of his victims for some sort of sinister arcane purpose. If it's fear he feeds on, killing people would be counter-productive, wouldn't it?

Either way, considering how upset some people (Chenier) got over the mortality experiment in the last Invasion, I think it's just as well that Overlord isn't devouring every character he gets his hands on. I know I would be a bit unhappy if my non-hero character got killed because I got unlucky enough to get captured in a battle. He's one of my oldest characters, and I'm far from done having fun with him.

I'd be ready to accept mortality back when things get hopeless. Right now, they are just bleak. Imo, mortality should follow despair, not cause it. It should only come when it is blatantly obvious that BT is lost and that we are fighting the last few final battles.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Sypher on March 27, 2012, 07:20:29 AM
In invasion news:

Overlord teleported to Xhahgus from Bisana. 12th Son appeared as well. I assume 12th Son cast the spell to teleport Overlord.

The Daimons also built a Daimon worship temple in Xhahgus. 
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Yorkie on March 27, 2012, 11:04:59 AM
Its around this time that I really wish I wasn't so hard on adventurers when I was around breaking things in the last like three wars.

I really want a magic scroll so I can blow one of my characters up while yelling "SCHZAM!"
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Iltaran on March 27, 2012, 02:43:27 PM
I'd give a months income for a veteran adventurer right now. So far all the existing ones seem to be ignoring my efforts to command, bribe or threaten them. There's been some mention of books of banishing and scrolls and portal stones, but I want details! Have they been tried, or can they just not get them, or are the adventurers blissfully unaware of the impending apocolypse or what?

On another note, if we do lose, I hope there's some opportunity for characters to go down fighting. Askarn certainly isn't leaving Beluaterra.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chaotrance13 on March 27, 2012, 03:07:13 PM
I'd give a months income for a veteran adventurer right now. So far all the existing ones seem to be ignoring my efforts to command, bribe or threaten them. There's been some mention of books of banishing and scrolls and portal stones, but I want details! Have they been tried, or can they just not get them, or are the adventurers blissfully unaware of the impending apocolypse or what?

On another note, if we do lose, I hope there's some opportunity for characters to go down fighting. Askarn certainly isn't leaving Beluaterra.

Nor is Malos. Possibly because he emigrated from EC to join the war in the name of the Church. If he died, he'd probably be recognised in some way back home. As would all of the Church's BT branch, in fact.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Peri on March 27, 2012, 03:33:52 PM
I'd give a months income for a veteran adventurer right now.

It's not that exciting. Believe me.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on March 27, 2012, 06:00:51 PM
It's not that exciting. Believe me.

Less talking, more scroll-hunting!
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lefanis on March 27, 2012, 06:23:09 PM
I'd give a months income for a veteran adventurer right now. So far all the existing ones seem to be ignoring my efforts to command, bribe or threaten them. There's been some mention of books of banishing and scrolls and portal stones, but I want details! Have they been tried, or can they just not get them, or are the adventurers blissfully unaware of the impending apocolypse or what?

My advy had put together three books. Got five scrolls and was told the netherworld- BT link was weakened. Then my advy hunted around for more, and got two. Never found the third despite months of search and pleading with nobles and freemen alike. He must have toured the north a dozen times messaging all nearby advies to start the search for the books. Yesterday, I got bored of it and ennobled him after giving the books to another advy.

The last straw was when I wasted an entire week searching for items using the balanced approach, and didn't pick up a single item.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Arrakis on March 27, 2012, 06:25:20 PM
Riombara has two books and we're doing all we can to find the third one.  8)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Turner on March 28, 2012, 01:23:47 AM
Less talking, more scroll-hunting!

Couldnt agree with you more!

We need those scrolls and books  8)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on March 28, 2012, 01:31:00 AM
Couldnt agree with you more!

We need those scrolls and books  8)

Actually, I want more talking! To the peasants! Gotta convert them all to The Way!
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: JPierreD on March 28, 2012, 01:32:55 AM
Actually, I want more talking! To the peasants! Gotta convert them all to The Way!

And get beaten up in the process... ::)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on March 28, 2012, 01:35:08 AM
And get beaten up in the process... ::)

Indeed... If Guillaume doesn't reply in the coming days, you know why...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Draco Tanos on March 28, 2012, 01:48:14 AM
Real men are priests.  Look at our scars.  Not like those pansy warriors with their heavy armor!
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Iltaran on March 28, 2012, 04:18:47 AM
Ahhh, the wonders of being the dominant religion in your area...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on March 30, 2012, 12:40:06 AM
So there's a bunch of flaming vortices that appeared in the blight now...

It's starting to feel more and more like we'll have a diabolus ex machina this time around... or does anyone know how the hell to stop Overlord from doing his mumbojumbo? Obviously, defeating him over and over again doesn't help...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: LilWolf on March 30, 2012, 12:50:08 AM
So there's a bunch of flaming vortices that appeared in the blight now...

It's the end of the world. Best to just give up and let the daimons win :)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chaotrance13 on March 30, 2012, 02:02:49 AM
So there's a bunch of flaming vortices that appeared in the blight now...

It's starting to feel more and more like we'll have a diabolus ex machina this time around... or does anyone know how the hell to stop Overlord from doing his mumbojumbo? Obviously, defeating him over and over again doesn't help...

What? Where? I saw no continent-wide message about this...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Marlboro on March 30, 2012, 02:19:47 AM
What? Where? I saw no continent-wide message about this...

It's on the dynamic map. Zoom out and see.

I don't think they're a sign of the apocalypse; I think they're points that Overlord and his TLs can teleport to and from. Maybe they were supposed to be there the whole time but Tom was busy with the million other things he's working on and only recently put 'em up, hence no continent-wide message.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chaotrance13 on March 30, 2012, 02:26:51 AM
Ah, thank you.

Hmm... I wonder if those things can be closed. Obviously as they're in the Blight right now, not likely.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Iltaran on March 30, 2012, 07:02:27 AM
Weird that you can only see them when completely zoomed out. Also, the darkness over the border regions shows up when you're zommed out.

Seems like the firey vortexs of doom are in Jobo's Mouth, Nuzanki, Heen, Twillen, Zod and Eno.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on March 30, 2012, 01:55:01 PM
Weird that you can only see them when completely zoomed out. Also, the darkness over the border regions shows up when you're zommed out.

Seems like the firey vortexs of doom are in Jobo's Mouth, Nuzanki, Heen, Twillen, Zod and Eno.

And completely zoomed in.

I don't remember what Nuzanki is off the top of my head, but the rest of these are pretty important locations. Other than Jobo's, these were all capitals too (Mesh, Avalon/Fwuvoghor, Alluran) at at least some point after the last invasion.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Arrakis on March 30, 2012, 02:00:56 PM
force reload should take care of the zooming issues. there are also bunch of regions in the north that are shaded, but this has been there for several days already.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Iltaran on March 30, 2012, 03:07:07 PM
Now that I can see the rifts completely zoomed in, seems like one of them is in Tahglez rather than Heen. Still a ex-capital though.

Nuzanki was the original capital of Thalmarkin.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Solari on March 30, 2012, 03:13:48 PM
Now that I can see the rifts completely zoomed in, seems like one of them is in Tahglez rather than Heen. Still a ex-capital though.

Nuzanki was the original capital of Thalmarkin.

o/` Memories, like the corners of my mind. Misty water-colored memories... o/`
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on March 30, 2012, 06:00:31 PM
Jobo's Mouth is the daimon's capital. (check the realm view on the new dynamic map, then click on netherworld) Though I doubt it's very important IC.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: ^ban^ on March 30, 2012, 06:06:32 PM
Jobo's Mouth is the daimon's capital. (check the realm view on the new dynamic map, then click on netherworld) Though I doubt it's very important IC.

It's always been the daimon capital. :)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chaotrance13 on March 30, 2012, 08:23:35 PM
Anyway.. anyone got a home for an ex-Marshal? Malos just attempted to stab the Banker in OG and it looks like he'll be banned pretty soon.

(As for the reasons.. I wouldn't ask. It's stuff that frankly doesn't need to be put on here.)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Arrakis on March 30, 2012, 08:25:04 PM
I'd say come to Riombara. But I don't see how you could cross the blight :P
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chaotrance13 on March 30, 2012, 08:41:49 PM
I'd say come to Riombara. But I don't see how you could cross the blight :P

Very true. Though I suspect Rio wouldn't mind an infil to attack their enemies. :P

I mean, Malos has snapped, big time. This isn't like him ICly at all, really. Either war has broken his mind (a medieval version of PTSD) or he could claim he's been affected by magic, which is a lie of course. Shame he can't join the Daimons. ;)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Solari on March 30, 2012, 09:54:06 PM
Anyway.. anyone got a home for an ex-Marshal? Malos just attempted to stab the Banker in OG and it looks like he'll be banned pretty soon.

(As for the reasons.. I wouldn't ask. It's stuff that frankly doesn't need to be put on here.)

Thalmarkin! The answer is always Thalmarkin.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chaotrance13 on March 30, 2012, 10:10:19 PM
Thalmarkin! The answer is always Thalmarkin.

Ah, but Thalmarkin is allied with OG, you'd probably turn Malos over to them and then that's bye-bye him! ;)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on March 30, 2012, 10:13:10 PM
Very true. Though I suspect Rio wouldn't mind an infil to attack their enemies. :P

I mean, Malos has snapped, big time. This isn't like him ICly at all, really. Either war has broken his mind (a medieval version of PTSD) or he could claim he's been affected by magic, which is a lie of course. Shame he can't join the Daimons. ;)

Complete your betrayal of everything Old Grehk stands for: Join Fronen.  ::)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Thunthorn on March 30, 2012, 11:24:28 PM
It's on the dynamic map. Zoom out and see.

I don't think they're a sign of the apocalypse; I think they're points that Overlord and his TLs can teleport to and from. Maybe they were supposed to be there the whole time but Tom was busy with the million other things he's working on and only recently put 'em up, hence no continent-wide message.

Overlord and his son teleported from Bisana to Xhaghus so I don't think this is the case. They may be places they can fasttravel with their troops within the blight though. More likely they succeeded with whatever ritual they were performing and can bring in new and more terrible Daimons to eat do battle against.

Makes me wander what we could have done differently. Melhed has been on five distinct campaigns against the daimons and only been on the losing side of a single battle. We feel that we are winning, still the world keeps getting bleaker...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on March 30, 2012, 11:26:28 PM
We feel that we are winning, still the world keeps getting bleaker...

Indeed...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on March 30, 2012, 11:32:18 PM
I'd say come to Riombara. But I don't see how you could cross the blight :P

Get arrested as a rogue, get released. You then get to chose your new realm, and get TPed to that realm (if you don't have a unit).

Only way of getting across that I know of. Now, if you intentionally get yourself banned in order to do this, then that's probably abusing. But for this, I'd tend to think it's normal game mechanics working as they always do.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Marlboro on March 31, 2012, 01:47:27 AM
Ah, but Thalmarkin is allied with OG, you'd probably turn Malos over to them and then that's bye-bye him! ;)

Allied with but not beholden to. Important distinction.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chaotrance13 on March 31, 2012, 02:32:50 AM
Allied with but not beholden to. Important distinction.

True enough, but still a potential risk. You never know.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Iltaran on March 31, 2012, 04:51:12 AM
Emigrate to AT. Sit around sending your taxes to your family for two weeks. Emigrate to BT and select Riombara. Problem solved.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on March 31, 2012, 10:54:42 AM
Only way of getting across that I know of.

There is at least one way that is completely IC - but rare. A magic scroll of teleportation. Good luck finding one, but I know a few are around.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lefanis on March 31, 2012, 02:07:19 PM
There is at least one way that is completely IC - but rare. A magic scroll of teleportation. Good luck finding one, but I know a few are around.

Wonder if those scrolls can teleport you to the fire regions where you could sacrifice yourself/unique items/portal stones and shut it down somehow ;D
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on March 31, 2012, 03:06:46 PM
There is at least one way that is completely IC - but rare. A magic scroll of teleportation. Good luck finding one, but I know a few are around.

I wonder if I can find 2 in the south, to go to Fronen and back...

Now that would be awesome. XD
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: GoldPanda on April 01, 2012, 02:39:24 AM
Welp, it appears that the incompetence of the Beluaterran nobility has literally doomed all other islands.  ;D

Thanks guys. ;)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on April 01, 2012, 05:14:37 AM
It's all your fault for not sending us reinforcements, fool. Didn't you get Laszlo's message to all the rulers of Atamara?  ;)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Iltaran on April 01, 2012, 05:42:25 AM
Welp, it appears that the incompetence of the Beluaterran nobility has literally doomed all other islands.  ;D

Thanks guys. ;)

Incompetence?!?! We've been so successful in fighting the Daimons that Overlord is going to flee Beluaterra and attack the other, wimpier continents!
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Marlboro on April 01, 2012, 07:22:16 AM
Incompetence?!?! We've been so successful in fighting the Daimons that Overlord is going to flee Beluaterra and attack the other, wimpier continents!

+1 for truths.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lefanis on April 01, 2012, 07:41:20 AM
Sadly, Overlord had to change his plans, and decided to invade the rest of the continents, as there weren't the necessary souls to craft his prized soulforge knickers on Beluaterra.

Perhaps Atamara shall be more to his fancy  ::)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Telrunya on April 02, 2012, 03:44:09 PM
Quote
Letter from Overlord   (3 hours, 48 minutes ago)
Message sent to the human rulers of Beluaterra (9 recipients)
The time has come to crush you into the dirt where you belong. You did well against the flesheaters, not many of the races I have conquered stood and fought at all, and fewer still managed to score victories.

But all of your efforts have only provided us with the souls we needed to unleash the true horrors of the Netherworld upon you. Clad in the shades of your former friends and comrades, wielding swords of night and terror, they know no fear nor mercy. Everything else was fun and games compared to these soldiers of mine. I am very glad to be able to lead them into battle once more. It has been too long.

Enjoy, for it is the last thing you will do. Many worlds have fallen before them, and yours will merely be the latest addition to the collection.

Overlord

I guess we're not that pathetic and weak any more. Once we're Netherworld Slaves, we can boast at how awesome we are to the other more pathetic and weak slaves!
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on April 02, 2012, 04:09:17 PM
I guess we're not that pathetic and weak any more. Once we're Netherworld Slaves, we can boast at how awesome we are to the other more pathetic and weak slaves!

Basically, yes.

Also, the invasion of other islands will have you on the frontlines, fighting your brothers.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Charles on April 02, 2012, 06:17:47 PM
I am a bit confused by the shading of the border regions.  before the blight only ever was expanded into regions already "owned" by the netherworld.  Now Agyr is shaded and aside from having lost a battle there once, it is fully in Melhed control.
I find the blight very frustrating to figure out, but if Agyr gets blighted while still in our control then I think I might scream.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Telrunya on April 02, 2012, 06:22:22 PM
I believe it has something to do with the ritual Overlord was talking about, and all the odd weather. It's not 'normal' Blight mechanics, but a special ritual that allowed the Netherworld to spread the Blight to all Northern regions bordering a Blighted Region (by using loads of sacrifices). I don't think the ritual is yet completed though and that's why we see this current state, but that might change when Overlord returns with his new fancy unit. Of course, that ritual thing might also have been the summoning of this new type of Daimon that we will soon learn to fear.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on April 02, 2012, 06:35:23 PM
Oh, they're here, they just arrived in Marpii. Which probably explains why not one but two Netherworld infiltrators tried to stab me last turn, so I couldn't share the news. Unfortunately for them, my guards were quite alert. Also, I used to be infil myself, which probably helps explain why the one that did get to me only left me with a light wound before getting caught.

They look nasty. Even taking into account how daimon units are routinely exaggerated in terms of CS on scout reports, we're looking at combined 60-75k CS in three units.

Edit: Forgot to mention, that's the force a single commander has. There are theoretically a couple more of them out there not including the one in Ajitmon, plus Overlord. Possibly up to 300k CS in the North alone if they all show up at once.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: D`Este on April 02, 2012, 07:24:42 PM
Thal has around 91k daimons next to capital.....

So guess some realms have a small problemo..
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on April 02, 2012, 08:11:47 PM
And there I was planning to save up my gold a bit for once...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on April 03, 2012, 12:01:16 AM
Basically, yes.

Also, the invasion of other islands will have you on the frontlines, fighting your brothers.

Amen to that! The Old Continents will pay for abandoning us to our fate!
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on April 03, 2012, 12:11:14 AM
That would be really interesting, if our characters actually lived and were forced to fight for the Netherworld while invading some other island.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Indirik on April 03, 2012, 12:13:26 AM
That would rock. I'm in!
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on April 03, 2012, 12:20:15 AM
Yes it would be quite interesting. Even more so if we were sent in with nothing but human troops as an advance invasion force, basically a suicide brigade to establish a foothold for the daimons. Some unique mechanics would probably have to be developed to give us resources and a way to recruit, or then again maybe what we get is what we get until we start taking over regions. After all, if all 200+ nobles on BT showed up as one big army with over-recruited units somewhere, we could probably wreck face for quite a while before we got slowed down...

Probably nothing more than fantasy, but hey, a man can dream  :)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on April 03, 2012, 12:22:26 AM
Yes it would be quite interesting. Even more so if we were sent in with nothing but human troops as an advance invasion force, basically a suicide brigade to establish a foothold for the daimons. Some unique mechanics would probably have to be developed to give us resources and a way to recruit, or then again maybe what we get is what we get until we start taking over regions. After all, if all 200+ nobles on BT showed up as one big army with over-recruited units somewhere, we could probably wreck face for quite a while before we got slowed down...

Probably nothing more than fantasy, but hey, a man can dream  :)

Daimons recruited peasant armies.

Ofc, though, they sucked.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Gustav Kuriga on April 03, 2012, 12:23:32 AM
I would find it hellish... and probably not as fun as it sounds to some people.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on April 03, 2012, 12:25:24 AM
I'm sure we'd all have a choice. Join up and convert to daimon worship or get devoured.

In my fantasy world where this actually happens, that is.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Anaris on April 03, 2012, 12:25:37 AM
I would find it hellish...

Well, yes.

Isn't that the point?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on April 03, 2012, 12:27:58 AM
Well, yes.

Isn't that the point?

I believe it is, indeed.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Gustav Kuriga on April 03, 2012, 01:02:30 AM
I mean as a player, not my character
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Norrel on April 03, 2012, 05:52:38 AM
that actually sounds like an amazing idea.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lefanis on April 03, 2012, 07:34:09 AM
Damn... That was just... SMACK

Those Horrors are nasty...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: mikm on April 03, 2012, 07:43:02 AM
Amazing! They went straight for Firebalt and roled us over. Militia and fortifications were useless.
Just when everyoe kept saying we were wining.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Marlboro on April 03, 2012, 08:23:04 AM
Amazing! They went straight for Firebalt and roled us over. Militia and fortifications were useless.
Just when everyoe kept saying we were wining.

Thalmarkin's turned Unger into a meatgrinder. Way I figure, as long as at least one realm is able to beat them back they can then send help and tip the scales elsewhere. That is assuming the baddies don't show up the next day with even bigger badguys, but it seems like they recruit in waves so as long as there are other commanders on the field with yesterday's monsters I don't think they'll pop right back out.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on April 03, 2012, 09:35:13 AM
Amazing! They went straight for Firebalt and roled us over. Militia and fortifications were useless.
Just when everyoe kept saying we were wining.

What an amazing morning, indeed. Four realms decapacitated in one swift blow. Until they hit Firbalt I couldn't believe nobody had spotted them. Everyone was like "hey Sint, we need your help". :-)

I'd like to know how many people read the four "huge battle reported - attacker victory" messages and went "omg! omg! we're !@#$ed!".
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Iltaran on April 03, 2012, 09:55:10 AM
What an amazing morning, indeed. Four realms decapacitated in one swift blow. Until they hit Firbalt I couldn't believe nobody had spotted them. Everyone was like "hey Sint, we need your help". :-)

I'd like to know how many people read the four "huge battle reported - attacker victory" messages and went "omg! omg! we're !@#$ed!".

Pretty much everyone. I knew about Vur Hagin, Reeds and Unger, but Firbalt was a suprise (and I was hoping against hope Lorgan could pull off a miracle). You messed up my counter-attack plan as well.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on April 03, 2012, 10:09:20 AM
Pretty much everyone. I knew about Vur Hagin, Reeds and Unger, but Firbalt was a suprise (and I was hoping against hope Lorgan could pull off a miracle). You messed up my counter-attack plan as well.

Hey, we spent like 5k gold, increased our CS from 15k to 25k and killed /half/ of them, there's only so much we can do... :P

Oh, and I finally got to surprise-raise the walls to level 5! Not sure if it mattered much though :P
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on April 03, 2012, 10:50:05 AM
Quote
The battle has heavily damaged the fortifications, and reduced them to Stronghold (4)

So I guess it did matter... At least it's not level 3 now...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: mikm on April 03, 2012, 11:17:25 AM
Not being able to recruit after a defeat in your capital is troublesome.  It's time to " abandon ship".

Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on April 03, 2012, 12:38:15 PM
It's days like these I miss the old statistics... In a week it will not be half as interesting to see the spectacular fall of humanity's military power.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Iltaran on April 03, 2012, 01:29:04 PM
Hey, we spent like 5k gold, increased our CS from 15k to 25k and killed /half/ of them, there's only so much we can do... :P

Oh, and I finally got to surprise-raise the walls to level 5! Not sure if it mattered much though :P

Yeah, yeah, just hurry up or I'll have to come rescue you ;)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on April 03, 2012, 02:00:20 PM
Amazing! They went straight for Firebalt and roled us over. Militia and fortifications were useless.
Just when everyoe kept saying we were wining.

I've always been saying we were losing!

Mind you, I thought we were losing a little less than that. ;)

Or maybe a little more? Can't let the North be too strong, now! :D
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Naidraug on April 03, 2012, 02:01:07 PM
So I guess it did matter... At least it's not level 3 now...

I'm sad I can't say the same here...when your duke let the wall to remain in lvl 3...you can only sit down and pray to OG
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Iltaran on April 03, 2012, 02:37:01 PM
I'm sad I can't say the same here...when your duke let the wall to remain in lvl 3...you can only sit down and pray to OG

Ironic, Solips was the one who got torn to shreds by Horrors.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on April 03, 2012, 03:02:54 PM
I'm not super worried yet. The daimons either have to TO the capitals or sit in them indefinitely to keep them locked down, which gives us time to come up with a coordinated counter-offensive to drive them out. Thalmarkin gave them a pretty good beating actually despite technically losing the battle. If they can drive them out over the next few days, they can then refit and come help someone else. Other than Nothoi, every other realm under attack has another city they can move their capital to if need be. Out of curiosity, moving it under these circumstances: Breaking the rule about strategic capital moves? Or do we need to wait until the daimons actually TO them?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on April 03, 2012, 03:20:47 PM
Out of curiosity, moving it under these circumstances: Breaking the rule about strategic capital moves?

That's not a strategic move, that's a flee and rescue operation. :-)

And an admittance of defeat, of course.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lefanis on April 03, 2012, 03:30:11 PM
Actually, given what Overlord made the Horrors out to be, and the fact that he has turned to them now, suggest his power is waning, almost as if the end is in sight. So I would say the horrors are either the last, or second last wave of Overlords forces. If this is the type of invasion which is decided by military might and not some deus ex machina, then humans are close to pushing back daimons.

I was surprised by the message Overlord sent introducing the horrors. Very out of character for him to praise our efforts, even so slightly as he did.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: mikm on April 03, 2012, 03:32:37 PM
If we only had a temple of light right now.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on April 03, 2012, 03:49:52 PM
That's not a strategic move, that's a flee and rescue operation. :-)

And an admittance of defeat, of course.

He who runs away lives to fight another day. Fronen's not the military power it once was. I would say our odds of pushing the Horrors out of Vur Hagin unassisted are not great, though we're surely in better shape than Nothoi. Considering that it will be some time before we can expect help from anyone other than Melhed, we may have to undertake a tactical retreat until more help is available.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Telrunya on April 03, 2012, 03:59:26 PM
Actually, given what Overlord made the Horrors out to be, and the fact that he has turned to them now, suggest his power is waning, almost as if the end is in sight. So I would say the horrors are either the last, or second last wave of Overlords forces. If this is the type of invasion which is decided by military might and not some deus ex machina, then humans are close to pushing back daimons.

I was surprised by the message Overlord sent introducing the horrors. Very out of character for him to praise our efforts, even so slightly as he did.

I agree. There is certainly hope. The loss of a Capital is painful, but with multiple Cities the Daimons will need to win several more battles against heavy defences, assuming they keep going after a Capital. There is still hope to wear them down. The South hasn't been hit yet, but we suspect Midnight of the South will be leading an unit of Horrors to Riombara's Capital after he gets out of our Dungeons.

If we only had a temple of light right now.

No worries. Humanity united and destroyed the Light themselves. That's how confident we are we will win on our own strength, we didn't want to give Overlord any excuses (We totally didn't get tricked. Nope. Not at all.)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on April 03, 2012, 04:02:30 PM
The South hasn't been hit yet, but we suspect Midnight of the South will be leading an unit of Horrors to Riombara's Capital after he gets out of our Dungeons.

I hope we're executing him though, aren't we?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on April 03, 2012, 04:03:40 PM
I hope we're executing him though, aren't we?

Which means a new one will pop up anywhere he wants to as soon as we do.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on April 03, 2012, 04:06:00 PM
Well yes, but the current theory is that they're done after the darkest hour, so at least we'd be a step closer.. :P
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Telrunya on April 03, 2012, 04:06:46 PM
Someone brainstormed with the idea to let him rot to buy more time, but I think a few others reacted that they rather make sure we can execute him then giving him more chances to escape before his execution at the end of jail time. We'll see, but I expect the execution will happen as soon as it's possible personally. Though that means Darkest Hour of the South will come for the visit instead.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Anaris on April 03, 2012, 04:06:53 PM
Which means a new one will pop up anywhere he wants to as soon as we do.

As opposed to us releasing him, in which case the same one will pop up anywhere as soon as we do.

I still agree with the people who say it's important to keep executing the Hours and progressing the time. After the Darkest Hour comes the Dawn.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: mikm on April 03, 2012, 04:18:47 PM
The capitals always falls last from what I've seen. Here it may  fall first.
After that you just get a new capital?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on April 03, 2012, 04:24:26 PM
The capitals always falls last from what I've seen. Here it may  fall first.
After that you just get a new capital?

I think you have to move the capital manually. And I /think/ it costs around 500 gold to do so and all the peasants over the realm will be upset.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: mikm on April 03, 2012, 06:46:00 PM
This is freaky. The have 98000 CS now and had 35000 during the first battle.
The end is here!
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Telrunya on April 03, 2012, 07:51:20 PM
Their CS outside of battles is inflated. The CS reported during the battle report is the actual value.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: mikm on April 03, 2012, 07:52:46 PM
That is super inflated then.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on April 03, 2012, 08:46:46 PM
Their CS outside of battles is inflated. The CS reported during the battle report is the actual value.

*Massively* inflated. Moreso than any other unit type we've seen, more than double the actual CS value.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on April 03, 2012, 09:35:08 PM
*Massively* inflated. Moreso than any other unit type we've seen, more than double the actual CS value.

I think Overlord was running around with a - supposedly - 100k+ CS unit during his destruction campaign of enweil.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: JPierreD on April 03, 2012, 10:55:11 PM
I think Overlord was running around with a - supposedly - 100k+ CS unit during his destruction campaign of enweil.

They start very strong, but with time (perhaps equipment damage or something) they drop drastically.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Eithad on April 03, 2012, 11:10:37 PM
Its called magic.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Solari on April 03, 2012, 11:14:02 PM
Example: the Daimon force that sacked Unger reported as 91k CS in scout reports.  In battle, it was more like 25k.  It definitely makes advanced planning difficult, but the lesson is clear: don't come to a fight unless you have overwhelming force. 
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: GoldPanda on April 03, 2012, 11:48:52 PM
When visiting a smithy, we have the option of making our unit CS appear higher and lower in scout reports. Overlord probably have access to similar tricks.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on April 04, 2012, 01:23:57 AM
Example: the Daimon force that sacked Unger reported as 91k CS in scout reports.  In battle, it was more like 25k.  It definitely makes advanced planning difficult, but the lesson is clear: don't come to a fight unless you have overwhelming force.

31k actually. You're making it sound as if we should've wiped the floor with them... ;)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on April 04, 2012, 04:52:00 AM
The South already got beaten.

Well, Enweil and Fheuv'n, at least. Enweil might have fallen more, but that's because Fheuv'n didn't have much to begin with.

But we are continuously losing land and getting our forces slaughtered every time we finally recuperate from the last assaults...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Marlboro on April 04, 2012, 05:28:48 AM
Don't worry, bud. The Heroes of the North will take care of Overlord. Still pretty sure we've missed the bus on getting rid of the blight though so you guys'll still have your sub-continent Lord of Flies thing going on down there, but I wouldn't be surprised if you preferred it that way.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on April 04, 2012, 09:03:44 AM
So that didn't go well... the militia clearly did not feel like getting out of bed this morning so it was 26k daimons vs 12k us. (well, some of them did but they slept through the entire battle)

Oh and yes, in case you're wondering, killing 300 of them (they were with less than I thought in the beginning so it wasn't really half that we killed :P) equals only a loss of 5,000 CS.

Bye Bye BT.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Naidraug on April 04, 2012, 06:59:58 PM
Takeover in Reeds   (8 minutes ago)
message to all nobles of Nothoi
Darkest Hour of the West of Netherworld has initiated a takeover of your region Reeds.
Troops of Netherworld will try to remove this region from your realm and add it to their own through their actions throughout the next days. Troops of your realm can hinder and interrupt the takeover by engaging the enemy.

Yep we are in deep trouble
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on April 04, 2012, 08:58:10 PM
There's one running in Vur Hagin as well.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Naidraug on April 04, 2012, 09:21:17 PM
That's the bad part on being the ruler and wounded.

I see my messages counter increasing, and just know it they're from other rulers sharing things
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on April 04, 2012, 09:28:24 PM
No TO in Thal yet.

We're keeping a tally of killed and wounded daimons per day. :)
Not one of our own fallen forces as one of our nobles pointed out though... :P

Today: 85 dead, 100 wounded. Roughly of course.

At the same time, the Duke of Vore is throwing parties with all the gold and food we've sent him for safekeeping... :P
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: mikm on April 04, 2012, 10:15:37 PM
Firbalt is being evacuated. About time.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on April 04, 2012, 10:48:03 PM
And the funny thing is: The Netherworld forces aren't even "vastly overpowered", as some whiners have it. In fact, their main advantage is that their power is concentrated, but in sum total, they're about equal to the human realms right now.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: JPierreD on April 04, 2012, 11:12:49 PM
And the funny thing is: The Netherworld forces aren't even "vastly overpowered", as some whiners have it. In fact, their main advantage is that their power is concentrated, but in sum total, they're about equal to the human realms right now.

Which is not small deal at all, specially considering the morale advantage and the repeated charges. I'm not complaining, but they are certainly not as fighting humans, and we are not quite fighting with equal strengths. Not we should either.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Marlboro on April 04, 2012, 11:19:28 PM
Don't large archer units usually split up their attacks among a bunch of smaller units? The ranged Horrors just focus fire and completely disintegrate one unit a round, which seems a little unsporting.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on April 04, 2012, 11:28:57 PM
And the funny thing is: The Netherworld forces aren't even "vastly overpowered", as some whiners have it. In fact, their main advantage is that their power is concentrated, but in sum total, they're about equal to the human realms right now.

I'm not sure that's true right now, not at all. There are five daimon forces out there. Conservatively, they are about 25k CS apiece. No one realm can muster that much strength, most less than half that total, and there's only nine realms in all.

I don't think they're overpowered; they are certainly beatable. However, I think they have a significant force advantage right now even if you combine all the humans together, and they have major tactical and strategic advantages. Unlimited morale, incredibly fast strategic movement through the blight (if not outright teleportation), the ability to charge up walls, get knocked down and charge again and again and again, the ability to run TOs in any region they want, the ability to permanently deny access to conquered regions via the blight, hidden mechanics that make coming up with counter-strategies a guessing game, the list goes on.

In short, we've really got our work cut out for us, but I do think it's possible. If these horrors aren't the bottom of the barrel though, I think we are definitely toast. It'll be an all hands effort just to survive the current wave of attacks, if we survive. If we manage to destroy an army of horrors and the commander just heads into the blight and shows up with a whole new army of them a day later then I do not see any way we could possibly win.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on April 04, 2012, 11:29:39 PM
Don't large archer units usually split up their attacks among a bunch of smaller units? The ranged Horrors just focus fire and completely disintegrate one unit a round, which seems a little unsporting.

No they don't. The ranged daimons appear to be behaving exactly like any other ranged unit in the game so far as I can see.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Marlboro on April 04, 2012, 11:41:18 PM
No they don't. The ranged daimons appear to be behaving exactly like any other ranged unit in the game so far as I can see.

Well then they're jerks. :(
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: JPierreD on April 04, 2012, 11:48:06 PM
Well then they're jerks. :(

Well, you know, Daimons... Overlord just sent letters made of human-skin parchment and blood for ink to the rulers. Not the merriest bunch.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on April 04, 2012, 11:54:43 PM
I'm not sure that's true right now, not at all. There are five daimon forces out there. Conservatively, they are about 25k CS apiece. No one realm can muster that much strength,

As a matter of fact, four realms can.

Quote
I don't think they're overpowered; they are certainly beatable. However, I think they have a significant force advantage right now even if you combine all the humans together, and they have major tactical and strategic advantages. Unlimited morale, incredibly fast strategic movement through the blight (if not outright teleportation), the ability to charge up walls, get knocked down and charge again and again and again, the ability to run TOs in any region they want, the ability to permanently deny access to conquered regions via the blight, hidden mechanics that make coming up with counter-strategies a guessing game, the list goes on.

In short, we've really got our work cut out for us, but I do think it's possible.


That's exactly what I'm aiming for. If you survive this invasion, you should all be able to pat yourselves on the back and say "now that was a challenge".

And if you don't, at least you go down fighting, instead of just being steamrolled over. I really almost didn't notice that I can actually reach six capitals within one day from the Blight. Don't even have enough minions to attack them all simultaneously. :-)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on April 05, 2012, 12:00:41 AM
That's the bad part on being the ruler and wounded.

I see my messages counter increasing, and just know it they're from other rulers sharing things

From the rulers probably. A few interesting pieces, mostly stuff that's of no real interest to those outside of where it's happening.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on April 05, 2012, 12:33:17 AM
As a matter of fact, four realms can.

If you factor in militia maybe, but they shouldn't count for a number of reasons. They're not usually all in one place, for one thing. Neither can they move around to respond to daimon incursions. The daimon armies are mobile and concentrated. I would be impressed by any realm that could put 25kCS in one region. Thalmarkin managed 17kCS in their capital for the first battle, and they have probably the biggest mobile army and one of the richer capitals. Do you really think they could have pushed that up by another 8k CS?

Militia cannot be concentrated in one place the way mobile forces can (unless they're all in one region to begin with). Even in the capitals they're almost worse than useless anyway given the daimon ability to charge the walls over and over again; logic dictates you start all your forces in the rear to make sure the melee doesn't happen where the daimons can be thrown off the walls. With militia I'm not sure if this possible to accomplish since they always start in the middle.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on April 05, 2012, 01:40:03 AM
In short, we've really got our work cut out for us, but I do think it's possible. If these horrors aren't the bottom of the barrel though, I think we are definitely toast. It'll be an all hands effort just to survive the current wave of attacks, if we survive. If we manage to destroy an army of horrors and the commander just heads into the blight and shows up with a whole new army of them a day later then I do not see any way we could possibly win.

Indeed, it isn't impossible to defeat these hoards. Hard. Very very hard. But not impossible.
Another wave however... or any sort of combining of the existing armies, even if it's only 2, would mean the end end of humanity. No realm could stand again that and live, even if they get reinforcements from other realms, who are not being plagued by the 3 or 4 remaining armies...

Either way, I'm really enjoying it. :)

If you factor in militia maybe, but they shouldn't count for a number of reasons. They're not usually all in one place, for one thing. Neither can they move around to respond to daimon incursions. The daimon armies are mobile and concentrated. I would be impressed by any realm that could put 25kCS in one region. Thalmarkin managed 17kCS in their capital for the first battle, and they have probably the biggest mobile army and one of the richer capitals. Do you really think they could have pushed that up by another 8k CS?

After an extensive recruitment and setting up militia phase - all in one turn :P - Thalmarkin actually had 25k CS in it's capital the first battle. And we could've added 8k CS if we hadn't been rallying one of our armies (or both, not sure) in Vore to go out on campaign to Fronen. :P
Or perhaps more, as I would've had more people to handle with, more people, more gold, more hours, perhaps even more recruits... Oh well. :)

Militia cannot be concentrated in one place the way mobile forces can (unless they're all in one region to begin with). Even in the capitals they're almost worse than useless anyway given the daimon ability to charge the walls over and over again; logic dictates you start all your forces in the rear to make sure the melee doesn't happen where the daimons can be thrown off the walls. With militia I'm not sure if this possible to accomplish since they always start in the middle.

Our walls have actually been great for us in Unger. The first round of the first battle, we did 20k hits and took 6k hits.

But well... that's just talk of glorious past... :P Now we're lucky if we can get scratch 12k together, and every two battles the wall falls a level. The first battle even completely destroyed my level 5 walls, Level 4 survived one skirmish and one battle, now I'm at level 3... this isn't looking so great... :P
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Turner on April 05, 2012, 01:42:17 AM
Old Grehk managed to get our combined mobile CS (not counting militia) up to nearly 20K at one stage, it was about 18-19K I believe. Maybe if every single noble was made to serve as a Warrior some of us may be able to get our forces up near 25K, but it is highly unlikely as all realms have some who are Priests and Courtiers and not everyone will be a Warrior.

The Daimons certainly appear to be hitting humanity hard at the moment, but the war is not over yet and the North still has plenty of fight left in it yet.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Penchant on April 05, 2012, 01:46:53 AM
Priests might not be nessacary but I doubt that converting all your courtiers to warriors is not the best idea as they can help the realm quite a bit with their abilities.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on April 05, 2012, 01:50:29 AM
Old Grehk managed to get our combined mobile CS (not counting militia) up to nearly 20K at one stage, it was about 18-19K I believe. Maybe if every single noble was made to serve as a Warrior some of us may be able to get our forces up near 25K, but it is highly unlikely as all realms have some who are Priests and Courtiers and not everyone will be a Warrior.

The Daimons certainly appear to be hitting humanity hard at the moment, but the war is not over yet and the North still has plenty of fight left in it yet.

We had 23-24k CS mobile before the battles against Overlord in Bisana (or Bil Havil? can't remember). We had been sustaining 20k steady for months though. Since the invasion began pretty much, with some dips due to battles and long campaigns sometimes. Of course that did include myself sitting at home with a 1.2k CS unit, our judge with a 1.4k one and the marchioness of Lastfell with 800, plus some other who changed often.
We were ready for them but got overrun anyway... :P

But yes, the battle is definitely not lost I think.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Marlboro on April 05, 2012, 01:54:30 AM
Not to mention we've got Original Gangsta riding hard to <strike>fight DHotN for what's left of Unger</strike> provide much-needed reinforcements.

I think...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on April 05, 2012, 02:34:37 AM
Well I guess I'm wrong then. I don't recall seeing more than 15k CS from one realm at any point, but then again most of the armies I've seen in the field other than Melhed's had to travel a fair distance to get to where I could see them... It will be hard for us to recover from our current straits though. We're going to have to move our capital, especially now that a TO has begun there, and we'll be hard pressed to hold that one too unless some of the other realms are able to shake off their attackers and come help us.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on April 05, 2012, 02:39:09 AM
I really really hope nothing bad happens when he conquers all the capitals, aside from feeding the soul forge. And that's not to mention that firbalt is being evacuated and Overlord just announced he needs the temple there for his next ritual.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on April 05, 2012, 02:48:55 AM
If you don't have any priests, the daimons will likely just come and claim regions like that.

Soldiers are short-term investments, priests are long-term.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Turner on April 05, 2012, 02:56:08 AM
I really really hope nothing bad happens when he conquers all the capitals, aside from feeding the soul forge. And that's not to mention that firbalt is being evacuated and Overlord just announced he needs the temple there for his next ritual.

If Overlord does claim Firbalt, perhaps Sint should consider doing as much damage to the city as possible before losing claim on it. I would look at hindering Overlords efforts by closing down temples and other assets of relevance to his goals. Once he has it, they cant do anything about it.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on April 05, 2012, 02:56:57 AM
If Overlord does claim Firbalt, perhaps Sint should consider doing as much damage to the city as possible before losing claim on it. I would look at hindering Overlords efforts by closing down temples and other assets of relevance to his goals. Once he has it, they cant do anything about it.

They could close their own temple.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on April 05, 2012, 11:31:51 AM
They could close their own temple.

I think they would rather throw themselves naked at the Daimons than that. The Hemaglobe temple in Sint is Sint's pride and joy, isn't it? One of the largest temples in the whole game and all that.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Iltaran on April 05, 2012, 11:49:15 AM
I think they would rather throw themselves naked at the Daimons than that. The Hemaglobe temple in Sint is Sint's pride and joy, isn't it? One of the largest temples in the whole game and all that.

Not sure how Sint feels about it, but you could make a good IC argument about destroying it rather than letting it be despoiled by Overlord.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: mikm on April 05, 2012, 12:51:47 PM
So, what hapens if a region is blighted while there are unconcius characters in there?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Naidraug on April 05, 2012, 12:58:23 PM
Hey does anyone knows if when your capital is under attack elections won't happen?

Elections started 2 days ago, and still the outcome will come in 3 days u.u

Aaaaand I'm still wounded, great! My capital is under attack, i see messages of people wanting to abandon the realms and I can't do nothing! Huzza! \o/


Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on April 05, 2012, 01:12:35 PM
I think they would rather throw themselves naked at the Daimons than that. The Hemaglobe temple in Sint is Sint's pride and joy, isn't it? One of the largest temples in the whole game and all that.

Tough choices must be made. ;)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on April 05, 2012, 04:52:41 PM
Hey does anyone knows if when your capital is under attack elections won't happen?

Elections started 2 days ago, and still the outcome will come in 3 days u.u

Aaaaand I'm still wounded, great! My capital is under attack, i see messages of people wanting to abandon the realms and I can't do nothing! Huzza! \o/

Yeah, sorry about that and all  :)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on April 05, 2012, 05:15:12 PM
Not sure how Sint feels about it, but you could make a good IC argument about destroying it rather than letting it be despoiled by Overlord.

Exactly, these are no times to get sentimental.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on April 05, 2012, 06:11:59 PM
Quote
Huge Battle Fought   (6 minutes ago)
Rumours spread and tales are sung about a huge battle in Unger:
Netherworld vs. Thalmarkin
Estimated strengths: 310 men vs. 910 men
The Legion of the Wolf (Thalmarkin), sponsored by Fingolfin Noldorin, King of Thalmarkin, were led into battle by Marshal Yusklin Melphrydd.
The Eagles of Hope (Thalmarkin), sponsored by Dunbor Lorganson, Duke of Unger, Margrave of Unger, were led into battle by Marshal Cataryna Bowker.
Lady Cataryna Bowker, Marshal of the Eagles of Hope is spotted wielding the Doomed Longsword of Doom.
Darkest Hour of the North has been killed by Darius's unit.
Charlotte Tranquilli of Thalmarkin (Dame of Unger, Thalmarkin) was seriously wounded by Darkest Hour of the North 's unit.

Attacker Victory!

HELL YES!
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lefanis on April 05, 2012, 06:16:58 PM
Heh.

Dawns coming up  :P
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Velax on April 05, 2012, 06:31:23 PM
*watches as "Two Minutes Before Dawn" appears in Thalmarkin*
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Indirik on April 05, 2012, 08:42:11 PM
Sint already gave the order for the temple to be torn down. Sorry, Overlord. :)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Telrunya on April 05, 2012, 08:43:42 PM
Unless it was all a ploy to get the Temple down, so he can actually start the Ritual ;)

People yelling at my character for making a stand at Grehk, then yelling at my character for retreating afterwards. The High Constable had to get captured....Now I get all the complaints over me!
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: JPierreD on April 05, 2012, 08:45:20 PM
Unless it was all a ploy to get the Temple down, so he can actually start the Ritual ;)

People yelling at my character for making a stand at Grehk, then yelling at my character for retreating afterwards. The High Constable had to get captured....Now I get all the complaints over me!

While we face the largest invasion force our fellow Southerners are worshiping the Daimons :/
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Telrunya on April 05, 2012, 08:52:32 PM
Hey, if we survive this, we're going to have so much fun with the payback ;)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on April 05, 2012, 08:54:01 PM
The semi-blight in the North just reversed. We've got some regions to take back.... :)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: JPierreD on April 06, 2012, 03:52:21 AM
The dilemma of whether to leave or not Grekh in order to survive is causing a rather epic debate in Rio. Lovin' it.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lefanis on April 06, 2012, 05:20:07 AM
The semi-blight in the North just reversed. We've got some regions to take back.... :)

That's not all.. Some Blighted regions seem to have unblighted, Ukh and Mouzl!

I just hope Riombara defeats their Daimon lord... I need Fwuvoghor...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Iltaran on April 06, 2012, 05:20:44 AM
The semi-blight in the North just reversed. We've got some regions to take back.... :)

I have never loved Thalmarkin like I love Thalmarkin right now

:D
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on April 06, 2012, 07:18:33 AM
Ruh roh.

You can't move your capital while it's being TOed apparently.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: fodder on April 06, 2012, 07:22:44 AM
XD the ruler isn't in place anyway...

heh.. so much for not executing, eh?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Iltaran on April 06, 2012, 07:27:56 AM
Ruh roh.

You can't move your capital while it's being TOed apparently.

Well, worst comes to the worst, you just need to wait for the TO to finish...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on April 06, 2012, 07:33:49 AM
Yes, unfortunately we're essentially powerless in the meantime. As is Nothoi. As is Sint (in all likelihood). Stupid game mechanics.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Sypher on April 06, 2012, 08:04:48 AM
Yes, unfortunately we're essentially powerless in the meantime. As is Nothoi. As is Sint (in all likelihood). Stupid game mechanics.

At the current rate its going to take the Daimons two weeks to takeover Vur Hagin. Not sure if I view that as a good thing or bad thing in light of our inability to do much in the mean time.

Also, not getting any tax gold in Vur Hagin was an extra twist of the knife. I was hoping to at least get one last week of taxes before production drops to nothing :(
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: JPierreD on April 06, 2012, 09:28:05 AM
*watches as "Two Minutes Before Dawn" appears in Thalmarkin*

 ::)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on April 06, 2012, 09:33:41 AM
That's not all.. Some Blighted regions seem to have unblighted, Ukh and Mouzl!

And Bessimir and Kannoktet and Fikman. They're now covered by the shade but the previous border-regions like gethsemene and pomatim etc aren't anymore.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Iltaran on April 06, 2012, 10:06:00 AM
In interests of completeness, this is the full list of effects that I've noticed.

Dark Clouds were removed from Agyr, Lastfell, Wailing Wood, Winifael, Pomatim, Gethsemene and Sniika.

Blight was reduced to Dark Clouds in Kannoket, Ukh, Mouzl, Bessimir and Fikman.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on April 06, 2012, 11:10:32 AM
You can't move your capital while it's being TOed apparently.

Wrong. You can't move the capital while there is fighting going on (this turn or the turn before, it takes a turn to "cool down"). You can move while it's being taken over. Why don't people read the messages we give them? It says nothing about takeover, it says:

Quote
You can not move your capital here while there is unrest or war.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on April 06, 2012, 11:11:07 AM
Yes, unfortunately we're essentially powerless in the meantime. As is Nothoi. As is Sint (in all likelihood). Stupid game mechanics.

Stupid players not actually reading the messages the game writes.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: D`Este on April 06, 2012, 11:21:04 AM
Tom...wouldn't a take over cause unrest? Which is why it might be unclear what the game says..
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on April 06, 2012, 03:26:00 PM
Tom...wouldn't a take over cause unrest? Which is why it might be unclear what the game says..

Wouldn't the message say "because of the running takeover"? You know, like pretty much all of the other messages in the game? We really try hard to give you the actual reason and not some arcane bull!@#$. If the message says "war or unrest", then it means "war and unrest", and not something else that someone might interpret as his grandmother thinking that her nephew would understand to probably include the troubles caused by a takeover.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: mikm on April 06, 2012, 05:20:27 PM
These capital cities sure are hard to capture, even with almost no oposition.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on April 06, 2012, 06:49:13 PM
Yes, capitals are notoriously hard to TO, even for invaders. 60,000 undead didn't succeed to TO Unger from under Thalmarkin not even after sitting there for 2 weeks.

And the TO of Vozzessdor from under Neo Grehk by Old Grehk took 3 weeks if I remember correctly (had to start many different ones, TO's work differently now though).
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on April 06, 2012, 07:45:37 PM
Wrong. You can't move the capital while there is fighting going on (this turn or the turn before, it takes a turn to "cool down"). You can move while it's being taken over. Why don't people read the messages we give them? It says nothing about takeover, it says:

I wasn't trying to be insulting Tom, but as someone else pointed it out, it's not *that* clear. Unrest could mean any of the following: Low region control, low morale, low loyalty or any combination of the three. War could mean battles but it could also mean looting or a takeover in progress. If you intend for it to be explicit about the cause then make it explicit. E.g:

"You can not move your capital because a battle was fought there recently".

I had little reason to think this was the cause because I've had no report of a battle fought there for over two and a half days. How long should it be before I can perform this action? Or is the problem actually whatever constitutes 'unrest'? Morale is pretty low as you might imagine, but control and loyalty are both high.

Edit: And I still can't do it.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on April 06, 2012, 08:12:12 PM
I gotta concur, "unrest" is pretty damn vague. And no Tom, a lot of things are pretty unclear in this game. Some of it is intentionally obfuscated, too.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Marlboro on April 07, 2012, 12:09:53 AM
"Unrest" seems to literally refer to an incipient rebellion of some sort, while a takeover is a separate sovereign agency attempting to wrest control away.

Edit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3rhQc666Sg
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on April 07, 2012, 03:23:17 AM
"Unrest" seems to literally refer to an incipient rebellion of some sort, while a takeover is a separate sovereign agency attempting to wrest control away.

Edit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3rhQc666Sg

"Unrest" is a vague term that frequently appears in BM for no apparent reason.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Marlboro on April 07, 2012, 03:25:57 AM
Hang Rebels

8 hours

By the end of the day 57 peasants swing gently from the gallows.

Did I just blow your mind?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Indirik on April 07, 2012, 03:49:46 AM
umm.... no?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on April 07, 2012, 11:30:30 AM
I wasn't trying to be insulting Tom, but as someone else pointed it out, it's not *that* clear. Unrest could mean any of the following: Low region control, low morale, low loyalty or any combination of the three. War could mean battles but it could also mean looting or a takeover in progress. If you intend for it to be explicit about the cause then make it explicit. E.g:

"You can not move your capital because a battle was fought there recently".

You still didn't read it properly. Look, if it means "because of a recent battle", wouldn't it say so? It does mean war or unrest. In this case, I'm pretty sure the daily looting I put in keeps the capital as not peaceful. However, I just realize thanks to this discussion that a realm under pressure should be able to move its capital even under these conditions, but at a penalty. I will add that.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Telrunya on April 07, 2012, 11:33:43 AM
Strange, black clouds hang over the region, blocking out the sun for much of the day.

*tries to blow the clouds away from Grehk* Shoo! Shoo!
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on April 07, 2012, 11:56:48 AM
Strange, black clouds hang over the region, blocking out the sun for much of the day.

*tries to blow the clouds away from Grehk* Shoo! Shoo!

See if you can blow some of the daimons away too. ;)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on April 07, 2012, 02:18:54 PM
You still didn't read it properly. Look, if it means "because of a recent battle", wouldn't it say so? It does mean war or unrest. In this case, I'm pretty sure the daily looting I put in keeps the capital as not peaceful. However, I just realize thanks to this discussion that a realm under pressure should be able to move its capital even under these conditions, but at a penalty. I will add that.

There's now an SQL error on the Move Capital page, and another after you click the link. I opened a bugtracker ticket for you.

http://bugs.battlemaster.org/view.php?id=6733 (http://bugs.battlemaster.org/view.php?id=6733)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on April 07, 2012, 03:28:03 PM
fixed
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: mikm on April 07, 2012, 03:37:13 PM
Realm control droping in Firbalt. When it was the capital realm contral would stay at core no matter how bad everything elese was.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lefanis on April 07, 2012, 03:40:37 PM
Realm control droping in Firbalt. When it was the capital realm contral would stay at core no matter how bad everything elese was.

Yeah... Changing capitals drops stats. A lot. With the changed code, it would be even worse than that. But, small price to pay I guess.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on April 07, 2012, 03:42:10 PM
We'll see. I'm actually more than a little worried that we've just shot ourselves in the foot. Part of me suspects that once those TOs succeed, the semi-blight will become *actual* blight.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on April 07, 2012, 05:25:34 PM
We'll see. I'm actually more than a little worried that we've just shot ourselves in the foot. Part of me suspects that once those TOs succeed, the semi-blight will become *actual* blight.

And that the drop of stats will allow the daimons to quickly finish a takeover it would have otherwise taken them forever to complete...

Seems like this is pretty much it for BT.

On the other hand, Fheuv'n has finally recovered and rallied the largest army it has had since the invasion, but it still doesn't beat our pre-invasion record of 10k CS mobile. I suspect the fact that the duke lumped a whole ton of militia is mostly responsible for that, though.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on April 07, 2012, 05:28:11 PM
Nah, I don't buy that. Three of the strongest realms in the North are daimon-free, and once they refit and combine their forces we're going to start taking out the other commanders one by one. It will be hard, and may ultimately be too difficult, but I think we have a real chance.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on April 07, 2012, 05:30:10 PM
Nah, I don't buy that. Three of the strongest realms in the North are daimon-free, and once they refit and combine their forces we're going to start taking out the other commanders one by one. It will be hard, and may ultimately be too difficult, but I think we have a real chance.

Once the daimons finish their takeovers of the former capitals, which shouldn't take all that much time now with the stat drop and loss of capital status, they'll likely move on to the new capitals. What will save those?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on April 07, 2012, 05:34:05 PM
Um, how about Old Grehk, Thalmarkin  and Melhed together? The horrors are nasty but those three realms can put an awfully big force in the field, plus whatever the other three realms can drum up. Fronen and Sint can now recruit again, though in Fronen at least we have very few RCs to recruit from thanks to the semi-blight. It certainly won't be easy, but it's not impossible.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on April 07, 2012, 05:50:10 PM
Um, how about Old Grehk, Thalmarkin  and Melhed together? The horrors are nasty but those three realms can put an awfully big force in the field, plus whatever the other three realms can drum up. Fronen and Sint can now recruit again, though in Fronen at least we have very few RCs to recruit from thanks to the semi-blight. It certainly won't be easy, but it's not impossible.

You can no longer recruit from the semi-blight?
It used to be you could recruit from them, just not set them up directly as militia.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on April 07, 2012, 06:42:34 PM
You can no longer recruit from the semi-blight?
It used to be you could recruit from them, just not set them up directly as militia.

Nope:

Units not available because their home regions are not under sufficient realm control or are in the middle of a takeover or there is a special event in their home region:
Xhahgus Raiders (Infantry from Xhahgus), Xhahgus Elite Swords (Infantry from Xhahgus), Homu (Infantry from Dyomoque), Vur Hagin Armoured Crossbowmen (Archers from Vur Hagin), Field Javeliniers (Mixed Infantry from Marpii), Xhahgus Defenders (Mixed Infantry from Xhahgus), Hamera Meguka (Cavalry from Dyomoque), Republic Elite Cavalier (Cavalry from Vur Hagin)

Vur Hagin obviously is under takeover. The rest are regions that are in the semi-blight. Leaves us like four regions we can recruit from. Thank god they are large regions with good-sized recruitment centers.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on April 07, 2012, 06:44:29 PM
Heh. I should probably stay away from the bugtracker from now on... :P

(I reported that you couldn't recruit militia from those regions, now you can't recruit any troops from them :P)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: JPierreD on April 07, 2012, 08:53:24 PM
On the other hand, Fheuv'n has finally recovered and rallied the largest army it has had since the invasion, but it still doesn't beat our pre-invasion record of 10k CS mobile. I suspect the fact that the duke lumped a whole ton of militia is mostly responsible for that, though.

Great, that is roughly what we have in Rio after the beating the Daimons gave us, and we are trying to enlarge it before we counter-strike. So what are you planning to do with it? Face the Daimons alone when they are done with us? Because I suspect it won't be enough...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Arrakis on April 07, 2012, 08:59:03 PM
I assume their army is already spent since there was a battle in Sandlakes this turn.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: mikm on April 07, 2012, 09:53:30 PM
The fastest way  to kill the daimon comanders would be through a duel to the death. If your character is skilled enough and if they accept of course.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Marlboro on April 07, 2012, 09:59:38 PM
The fastest way  to kill the daimon comanders would be through a duel to the death. If your character is skilled enough and if they accept of course.

Which they won't, because they don't speak English/Battlemaster Common Tongue (German?) and don't have anything resembling honor. No, you need your good buddy, Infiltrator Guy. You need Skiarxon Guldan. When you absolutely, positively need to stab the !@#$ out of a general in the middle of tens of thousands of CS of troops, accept no substitutes.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on April 07, 2012, 10:00:12 PM
The fastest way  to kill the daimon comanders would be through a duel to the death. If your character is skilled enough and if they accept of course.

To be honest, death duels also get abused. I can't count the times that Overlord has been challenged to one. Seriously, people? The guy is immortal and has skills maxed out. I could've killed a dozen characters just by accepting their challenges. You are really lucky that he considers you so far below him that he doesn't even consider duelling something he sees as the equivalent of a rat.

There's your answer. :)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on April 07, 2012, 10:01:11 PM
You need Skiarxon Guldan. When you absolutely, positively need to stab the !@#$ out of a general in the middle of tens of thousands of CS of troops, accept no substitutes.

If he's so epic, why did he get captured on his first mission in Fissoa? ;)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Marlboro on April 07, 2012, 10:07:16 PM
If he's so epic, why did he get captured on his first mission in Fissoa? ;)

Did he really? :( He pulled a neat hat trick against CE, put down Enri and several marshals during a huge clash (About 60K CS altogether) with the Darka/Eston coalition and completely tipped the scales. I thought it would be cool if he could repeat that against the Daimons... but honestly I really shouldn't be fanboying him.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on April 07, 2012, 10:17:34 PM
Did he really? :( He pulled a neat hat trick against CE, put down Enri and several marshals during a huge clash (About 60K CS altogether) with the Darka/Eston coalition and completely tipped the scales. I thought it would be cool if he could repeat that against the Daimons... but honestly I really shouldn't be fanboying him.

Haha. Well, that is pretty epic. :)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on April 08, 2012, 06:21:58 AM
Great, that is roughly what we have in Rio after the beating the Daimons gave us, and we are trying to enlarge it before we counter-strike. So what are you planning to do with it? Face the Daimons alone when they are done with us? Because I suspect it won't be enough...

Fought in Sandlakes. We lost the battle, but barely lost any CS. We should win this second round.

Our economy's pretty bad with the loss of Sandlakes and blighting of Eg Tutnu, so taking on these daimon militas is kinda necessary and urgent.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on April 08, 2012, 06:27:55 AM
I lost the rulership election by a tie because my loyalists just lost their regions to the daimons or blight or paused... Would have otherwise doubled the result. That's interesting...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Penchant on April 08, 2012, 06:37:21 AM
Crap luck like that is why the code for ties should be changed.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lefanis on April 08, 2012, 06:44:43 AM
Crap luck like that is why the code for ties should be changed.

I remember my candidate for the duchy of Rines lost by tie during the Fourth Invasion. Which meant I had to convince/cajole an entirely new guy to secede into Meridian Republic from Riombara... Damn Khaludh... Should have known he couldn't be trusted ;D
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: ^ban^ on April 08, 2012, 08:40:56 AM
Crap luck like that is why the code for ties should be changed.

(http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/333273-laughing_elf_man_super_397.jpg)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Galle on April 08, 2012, 01:47:13 PM
I lost the rulership election by a tie because my loyalists just lost their regions to the daimons or blight or paused... Would have otherwise doubled the result. That's interesting...

Maybe you should have been trying to be a leader for all of your realm, so you wouldn't have tied in the first place...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on April 08, 2012, 01:49:18 PM
Maybe you should have been trying to be a leader for all of your realm, so you wouldn't have tied in the first place...

Zing!
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: mikm on April 08, 2012, 03:16:10 PM
There's your answer. :)

So this means he can not die in battle like one of the daimon general recetly or be excuted after being captured?

As for great status, I kind of suspected it.  But there is no shame dieing in duel to the death.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on April 08, 2012, 03:25:30 PM
Maybe you should have been trying to be a leader for all of your realm, so you wouldn't have tied in the first place...

1v1 vote.

Only lords can vote, and we've had a ton of regions lost lately because of takeovers and blighted regions being automatically lost to Netherworld now. And a lord paused.

So basically, the guy voted for himself, one voted for me, and I think 2 abstained.

I could have campaigned for these votes, that is true. I hadn't realized that the votes I am usually sure to be able to count on were from people who couldn't vote this time around.

When Tom asked why I cared about blighted regions no longer beings ours, this is why. XD
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on April 08, 2012, 03:28:35 PM
So question. The number of regions we cannot recruit from has expanded to the point where I'm no longer at all sure what's going on. Vale and Qrelg have been added to the list, only this makes no sense. Neither region is in particularly bad shape, has daimons in it, or has the semi-blight message about dark clouds making the peasants nervous. Qrelg is next to Vur Hagin, but so is Jyl, and we can recruit from there fine. Can I get a clue as to what is going on here? There are literally two regions in the entire realm that we can recruit from right now, which is making rebuilding our army next to impossible.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Velax on April 08, 2012, 03:29:51 PM
Crap luck like that is why the code for ties should be changed.

It's crap luck, sure, as there was a tie and Chenier lost the random roll-off, but why it that a reason for changing the code?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Telrunya on April 08, 2012, 03:34:55 PM
So question. The number of regions we cannot recruit from has expanded to the point where I'm no longer at all sure what's going on. Vale and Qrelg have been added to the list, only this makes no sense. Neither region is in particularly bad shape, has daimons in it, or has the semi-blight message about dark clouds making the peasants nervous. Qrelg is next to Vur Hagin, but so is Jyl, and we can recruit from there fine. Can I get a clue as to what is going on here? There are literally two regions in the entire realm that we can recruit from right now, which is making rebuilding our army next to impossible.

I assume control in those regions is good?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Iltaran on April 08, 2012, 03:36:13 PM
So question. The number of regions we cannot recruit from has expanded to the point where I'm no longer at all sure what's going on. Vale and Qrelg have been added to the list, only this makes no sense. Neither region is in particularly bad shape, has daimons in it, or has the semi-blight message about dark clouds making the peasants nervous. Qrelg is next to Vur Hagin, but so is Jyl, and we can recruit from there fine. Can I get a clue as to what is going on here? There are literally two regions in the entire realm that we can recruit from right now, which is making rebuilding our army next to impossible.

I know Thalmarkin's been reporting a bunch of bugs. I think that the blight may be slightly borked at the moment

It's crap luck, sure, as there was a tie and Chenier lost the random roll-off, but why it that a reason for changing the code?

I can envision a decent argument for incumbent-wins-in-case-of-tie. Although given that 90% of incumbents win without much opposition, I can also envision a decent argument for incumbent-loses-in-case-of-tie. :D
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on April 08, 2012, 03:36:29 PM
Core, and morale and loyalty are good as well.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on April 08, 2012, 03:39:58 PM
I can envision a decent argument for incumbent-wins-in-case-of-tie. Although given that 90% of incumbents win without much opposition, I can also envision a decent argument for incumbent-loses-in-case-of-tie. :D

Honestly, I can see arguments for both ways as well. I do hate random, though. I'd rather challengers win against incumbents in case of ties than it be decided randomly. Mind you, that doesn't work when the tied people are both challengers.

Btw, how does the new referendum work. Don't you vote at half-weight when voting for yourself anymore? The new ruler is the only one who voted for himself, and as both my characters lost the ability to vote these last few weeks, someone else gave me my vote.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on April 08, 2012, 03:41:30 PM
So question. The number of regions we cannot recruit from has expanded to the point where I'm no longer at all sure what's going on. Vale and Qrelg have been added to the list, only this makes no sense. Neither region is in particularly bad shape, has daimons in it, or has the semi-blight message about dark clouds making the peasants nervous. Qrelg is next to Vur Hagin, but so is Jyl, and we can recruit from there fine. Can I get a clue as to what is going on here? There are literally two regions in the entire realm that we can recruit from right now, which is making rebuilding our army next to impossible.

http://bugs.battlemaster.org/view.php?id=6742

"Glad" to see we're not the only ones ridden with bugs atm. :P
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on April 08, 2012, 03:50:54 PM
It's crap luck, sure, as there was a tie and Chenier lost the random roll-off, but why it that a reason for changing the code?

It isn't, ismple as that.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: mikm on April 08, 2012, 03:59:39 PM
The strange thing is certain regions with black cluds were available for reruitment some turns. Now they are not.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: JPierreD on April 08, 2012, 04:24:56 PM
Fought in Sandlakes. We lost the battle, but barely lost any CS. We should win this second round.

Our economy's pretty bad with the loss of Sandlakes and blighting of Eg Tutnu, so taking on these daimon militas is kinda necessary and urgent.

Messed up priorities, if you ask me.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on April 08, 2012, 05:12:16 PM
It's crap luck, sure, as there was a tie and Chenier lost the random roll-off, but why it that a reason for changing the code?

Actually, he's Guillaume's right-hand man since the beginning. He's founder of the religion, judge since the beginning, and duke of Fheuvenem. Mind you, the only guy who voted for him was himself.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on April 08, 2012, 05:17:31 PM
Actually, he's Guillaume's right-hand man since the beginning. He's founder of the religion, judge since the beginning, and duke of Fheuvenem. Mind you, the only guy who voted for him was himself.

Then you deserved to lose, since presumably you only had a single person vote for you as well, no? That's just getting lazy about your re-election.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: fodder on April 09, 2012, 08:48:22 PM
I assume control in those regions is good?

isn't there a reason text in dark grey for regions you can't recruit from.. under the table?
i know for rio it says grehk is being to'ed or some such and so you can't recruit from them
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Telrunya on April 09, 2012, 09:00:32 PM
"Units not available because their home regions are not under sufficient realm control or are in the middle of a takeover or there is a special event in their home region:"

That's what it says, it doesn't specify what is the actual reason.

Also, I bet Chenier is not having fun with his tie-vote loss.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Arrakis on April 09, 2012, 09:05:00 PM
Well, his fate is pretty much sealed if Riombara can survive the invasion.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on April 09, 2012, 09:46:32 PM
Then you deserved to lose, since presumably you only had a single person vote for you as well, no? That's just getting lazy about your re-election.

Yea, I kinda did. I coulda campaigned, and didn't bother. Marec and his brother voted for Marec, and together they make up at least half of the eligeable voters, though. 1 or two other lords could vote tops.

Mostly screwed by circumstances of all these lordships being lost, though.

!@#$ happens, I'm not getting ruffled up about it.

Well, his fate is pretty much sealed if Riombara can survive the invasion.

My fate is sealed in pretty much 99% of the possible invasion outcome scenarios. Which is why Guillaume puts his politico-religious agenda before survival.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: JPierreD on April 09, 2012, 10:33:08 PM
So, as expected, Guillaume sold himself to the Daimons. Is anyone surprised?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Marlboro on April 09, 2012, 11:02:22 PM
Looks like Thalmarkin ain't out of the woods yet.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on April 10, 2012, 12:34:27 AM
So, as expected, Guillaume sold himself to the Daimons. Is anyone surprised?

Surprised that you would fall for whatever the daimons tell you?

Because they are known to be so honest, right?

Not really, nop, not surprised.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: skiarxon@gmail.com on April 10, 2012, 12:34:58 AM
If he's so epic, why did he get captured on his first mission in Fissoa? ;)

Dude both Beluaterra and Dwilight are too much bad luck for me.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Marlboro on April 10, 2012, 12:36:47 AM
Dude both Beluaterra and Dwilight are too much bad luck for me.

YOU WERE THE CHOSEN ONE~!
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: skiarxon@gmail.com on April 10, 2012, 12:38:40 AM
YOU WERE THE CHOSEN ONE~!

Well each time I land on one of the testing islands the code breaks or I can't stab a thing :S I think I take "I kill for Darka, I serve Lavigna" too seriously.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Penchant on April 10, 2012, 02:12:37 AM
Then you deserved to lose, since presumably you only had a single person vote for you as well, no? That's just getting lazy about your re-election.
If you  read there were only four votes possible, 2 who abstained and it just happened the loss of his voters lately so he didn't have much time to expect it.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on April 10, 2012, 02:15:16 AM
If you  read there were only four votes possible, 2 who abstained and it just happened the loss of his voters lately so he didn't have much time to expect it.

Upon revision, I think there was only 1 abstention, 2 belonging to the family of the guy who voted, and 1 vote for me. About 4 nobles who could vote last election (and which I'm pretty sure I got their votes) could not vote this election because of various changes to how blighting works, a TO, and a lord pausing.

Small numbers, in any case.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Velax on April 10, 2012, 05:35:55 AM
These "region lords only" votes are too vulnerable to crap like this. On FEI, Cathay had a lords only vote and they ended up with a McGahee, for goodness' sake.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Sypher on April 10, 2012, 06:34:42 AM
Its made worse when you let two characters of the same family be region lords. But at least you can vote them out the next election (in theory).
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: mikm on April 10, 2012, 09:39:52 AM
Just saw the percebtage on the takeover of Firbalt. Nice feature!
It only reached 50% today. Now that is a long takeover.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on April 10, 2012, 09:44:26 AM
Just saw the percebtage on the takeover of Firbalt. Nice feature!
It only reached 50% today. Now that is a long takeover.

Grehk is at 65% already.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Sypher on April 10, 2012, 10:05:53 AM
The takeover of Vur Hagin is almost done I think. Hard to tell since my character is on day 4 or 5 of being wounded. He's been going back and forth between wounded and seriously wounded.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: mikm on April 10, 2012, 11:19:57 AM
The takeover of Vur Hagin is almost done I think. Hard to tell since my character is on day 4 or 5 of being wounded. He's been going back and forth between wounded and seriously wounded.
That has never hapened to me. Is it tied to age?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Sypher on April 10, 2012, 11:35:11 AM
That has never hapened to me. Is it tied to age?

I believe so. Yorick is over 60 years old.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Draco Tanos on April 10, 2012, 12:18:46 PM
Yeah, getting old sucks.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on April 11, 2012, 12:21:58 AM
These "region lords only" votes are too vulnerable to crap like this. On FEI, Cathay had a lords only vote and they ended up with a McGahee, for goodness' sake.

Most realms don't border the blight is Fheuv'n does.

It's an inconveniant of the system, sure, but I still believe it's the best system overall.

Of course, it works better in large realms with lots of regions and nobles than in tiny blight-bordered realms with very few nobles.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: GoldPanda on April 11, 2012, 01:14:28 AM
These "region lords only" votes are too vulnerable to crap like this. On FEI, Cathay had a lords only vote and they ended up with a McGahee, for goodness' sake.

You obviously do not understand the intricate beauty of the republican system. ;)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on April 11, 2012, 01:31:20 AM
Looks like Vur Hagin just got blighted.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Penchant on April 11, 2012, 01:32:18 AM
You obviously do not understand the intricate beauty of the republican system. ;)
Please enlighten us.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Sypher on April 11, 2012, 03:14:36 AM
Yeah, Vur Hagin is blighted.

Roleplaying Event   (2 hours, 54 minutes ago)
Message sent to everyone in the vicinity of Vur Hagin (14 recipients)
As the Daimon control over the city solidifies, the horrors hasten their slaughtering of the population. Soon, fear and suffering hangs in the air, thick as clouds. And then it actually forms clouds. Dark, black clouds that block out the sun completely. Within a few hours, the familiar, frightening sight of the Blight is forming over and inside the city, pushing the thinner clouds further outside, into the surrounding regions.

And then, as far as anyone can see from the outside, Vur Hagin vanishes into the Blight.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tan dSerrai on April 11, 2012, 12:58:26 PM
The same did happen to Grehk. The monsters thus definitely have the ability to blight a region (I assume if this works on capitals then it would work on all other regiontypes as well) after taking it. Yeh gods.

My (RP) family home has vanished....

-----------------

Message sent to everyone in the vicinity of Grehk (15 recipients)
As the Daimon control over the city solidifies, the horrors hasten their slaughtering of the population. Soon, fear and suffering hangs in the air, thick as clouds. And then it actually forms clouds. Dark, black clouds that block out the sun completely. Within a few hours, the familiar, frightening sight of the Blight is forming over and inside the city, pushing the thinner clouds further outside, into the surrounding regions.

And then, as far as anyone can see from the outside, Grehk vanishes into the Blight.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on April 11, 2012, 01:40:38 PM
In other news: Thalmarkin's usual taunting of Overlord just got us a nice big, red target painted on Unger.

Yay! ... I think?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on April 11, 2012, 01:47:09 PM
In other news: Thalmarkin's usual taunting of Overlord just got us a nice big, red target painted on Unger.

Yay! ... I think?

Their defeating the takeover probably did that.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on April 11, 2012, 01:59:10 PM
A TO was never started in Unger. Not sure why. Maybe because we fought him every turn except one (and then our militia still rallied and fought him) or because we killed enough daimons...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on April 11, 2012, 05:24:23 PM
Because of the drawn-out battles. The Daimon commander simply never had enough hours left at the turn. Oh yes, and then he died.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: mikm on April 12, 2012, 02:12:45 PM
The fallen apitals are being blighted. So what hapens if there are still characters there? Do they get traped inside?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on April 12, 2012, 02:14:57 PM
The fallen apitals are being blighted. So what hapens if there are still characters there? Do they get traped inside?

The players are asked to move out. No idea what happens if they refuse.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Telrunya on April 12, 2012, 02:17:20 PM
They can't do anything in the region but travel. Once out, they can't get back in.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: mikm on April 12, 2012, 02:21:00 PM
Maybe they want to stay and see what hapens next or are KO.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Telrunya on April 12, 2012, 02:22:14 PM
Then they'll remain in the region for a while, not being able to do anything.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lefanis on April 12, 2012, 02:35:07 PM
Then they'll remain in the region for a while, not being able to do anything.

Forever, actually. My character was accidentally stuck in the blight after he engaged in group of monsters in there, and since he was old, he didn't have the hours to leave the region after the battle. So he got stuck, and had to be manually removed from the region.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Marlboro on April 12, 2012, 11:45:39 PM
Forever, actually. My character was accidentally stuck in the blight after he engaged in group of monsters in there, and since he was old, he didn't have the hours to leave the region after the battle. So he got stuck, and had to be manually removed from the region.

This has got to be one of the funniest/most depressing things I've ever read on the forum. I'm just imagining this doddering old man politely asking the monsters to let him leave and they're like No, you have to stay grampa. Then he gets confused and takes a nap.

In other news, still hatin' them giant archer hordes. *Invests in Cavalry from hereon out.*
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on April 12, 2012, 11:48:16 PM
Cavalry and SF are the way to go. :)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Marlboro on April 12, 2012, 11:55:27 PM
SF are great, had a lot of success with Vorian Elite (Basically Terminators who've come from the future to kill Daimon Connor) but they're sooo slooow. Outside of defending walls they're just getting blown up on the stroll towards the enemy. I shed a little tear every time I lose a 300 gold investment in one round of combat.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on April 12, 2012, 11:56:59 PM
SF are great, had a lot of success with Vorian Elite (Basically Terminators who've come from the future to kill Daimon Connor) but they're sooo slooow. Outside of defending walls they're just getting blown up on the stroll towards the enemy. I shed a little tear every time I lose a 300 gold investment in one round of combat.

Heh. Cavalry may get there faster but they'll get destroyed all the same.. ;)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Marlboro on April 13, 2012, 12:02:59 AM
Heh. Cavalry may get there faster but they'll get destroyed all the same.. ;)

Actually in hand to hand we kick the Daimons' collective ass (We meaning all of us humies). They're doing about ~100 hits per battle turn while each of our units is doing anywhere from 250 to 900. Once they're engaged in melee they can't single out units and annihilate them with their lascannons, so even one guy getting there before the rest do is effectively shutting down a BFG while everyone else closes in. Maybe they get popped by the superior numbers once in melee, assuming nobody else is running cav. I'm not sure if they still only attack with a fraction once a unit of 500 is engaged with a single unit of, say, 30. But then you get in there with four or five nobles leading cav and it just becomes a slaughter until they break through and hit the second group. Wedge wedge wedge. DON'T put cavalry in the rear, that's terrible and makes me sad. There's no strategy for fighting these huge groups, just hit them as hard and as soon as possible and they'll break.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on April 13, 2012, 12:33:45 AM
Or kneel down and bow. ;)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Marlboro on April 13, 2012, 12:58:16 AM
Or kneel down and bow. ;)

I call that dance "The Chenier".
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on April 13, 2012, 01:03:27 AM
I call that dance "The Chenier".

Are you kidding me?

We are so tough, we can take on BOTH Riombara and the daimons at the same time!

Power in pride, my friend.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Telrunya on April 13, 2012, 01:08:24 AM
*waits till Chenier realizes 35k CS Horrors are marching to Enweil/IVF as we speak, followed by Riombara's army* You wanna test that? ;D
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on April 13, 2012, 04:18:24 AM
*waits till Chenier realizes 35k CS Horrors are marching to Enweil/IVF as we speak, followed by Riombara's army* You wanna test that? ;D

Our pride is invincible!
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on April 13, 2012, 08:39:25 AM
Hunting with 400+ men surely is effective. Wow:

Quote
Hunting Report   [size=.9em](2 hours, 17 minutes ago)[/size]
One hunting party of 23 men meets 5 enemies of the Dawn Warriors unit, who immediately surrender.
One hunting party of 21 men meets 4 enemies of the Dawn Warriors unit, who immediately surrender.
One hunting party of 16 men meets 6 enemies of the Dawn Warriors unit, who immediately surrender.
One hunting party of 15 men meets 2 enemies of the Destruction unit. The enemy doesn't surrender and your men attack, wiping the enemy party out. 0 of your men die during the fight.
One hunting party of 24 men meets 2 enemies of the Destruction unit, who immediately surrender.
One hunting party of 24 men meets 3 enemies of the =S= Sleeping Dragon Company unit. The enemy doesn't surrender and your men attack, wiping the enemy party out. 0 of your men die during the fight.
One hunting party of 21 men meets 3 enemies of the =S= Sleeping Dragon Company unit, who immediately surrender.
One hunting party of 14 men meets 2 enemies of the =S= Sleeping Dragon Company unit. The enemy doesn't surrender and your men attack, wiping the enemy party out. 0 of your men die during the fight.
One hunting party of 20 men meets 3 enemies of the =S= Sleeping Dragon Company unit. The enemy doesn't surrender and your men attack, wiping the enemy party out. 0 of your men die during the fight.
One hunting party of 18 men meets 3 enemies of the =S= Sleeping Dragon Company unit. The enemy doesn't surrender and your men attack, wiping the enemy party out. 0 of your men die during the fight.
One hunting party of 19 men meets 2 enemies of the =S= Sleeping Dragon Company unit, who immediately surrender.
One hunting party of 12 men meets 5 enemies of the Daimon Riders unit. The enemy doesn't surrender and your men attack, wiping the enemy party out. 0 of your men die during the fight.
One hunting party of 19 men meets 4 enemies of the Daimon Riders unit. The enemy doesn't surrender and your men attack, wiping the enemy party out. 0 of your men die during the fight.
One hunting party of 23 men meets 4 enemies of the Daimon Riders unit. The enemy doesn't surrender and your men attack, wiping the enemy party out. 0 of your men die during the fight.
One hunting party of 11 men meets 3 enemies of the Morrigan's Marauders unit. The enemy doesn't surrender and your men attack, wiping the enemy party out. 0 of your men die during the fight.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: mikm on April 13, 2012, 09:51:24 AM
You can get caught by enemy patrols while standing  in an enemy reagion. Gues that's one way out of the blight.
 Just hapened now.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tan dSerrai on April 13, 2012, 10:30:27 AM
Fighting Horrors:
We are having considerable trouble avoiding the initial daimon cav charge...its devastating. Once our infantry line can engage we have a good chance. Thus I would be VERY interested in suggestions on how to arrange our army with the aim to close with the daimons while avoiding the initial charge.

Sacrificial units one row in front of the main line? If yes, inf or cav? Sending cav in front of the infantry line to hit the Horrors one round in advance of the main line (allowing the main line to move up?

Our army consists of 7 parts infantry/SF/MI,  2 parts archers, 1 part cav.

Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on April 13, 2012, 02:02:34 PM
Fighting Horrors:
We are having considerable trouble avoiding the initial daimon cav charge...its devastating. Once our infantry line can engage we have a good chance. Thus I would be VERY interested in suggestions on how to arrange our army with the aim to close with the daimons while avoiding the initial charge.

Sacrificial units one row in front of the main line? If yes, inf or cav? Sending cav in front of the infantry line to hit the Horrors one round in advance of the main line (allowing the main line to move up?

Our army consists of 7 parts infantry/SF/MI,  2 parts archers, 1 part cav.

Sacrificial units don't work against large armies, but probably do against the daimons considering that their forces are all bunched up into one unit...

I've been deploying my infantry in the front in box formations, with the archers right behind. Not necessarily the best formation, though, but although we lost our first battle against the chargers in Sandlakes, we ended the battle with considerably more strength remaining than they had, and whooped them in the second battle. We have no MI, cavalry, or SF. At least then.

I guess you could try figuring out where the daimons start from, how far they move, and try to make it fit so that they don't meet on the first round, but end up by each other. I'm not quite sure how this works, but I know that cavalry can lose their charge bonus if the attack wasn't the result of their move (even if they moved since their last attack). Devising a strategy around this seems abusive to me, though, as I always thought that this combat behavior ought to be changed.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Arrakis on April 13, 2012, 04:30:10 PM
Sacrificial units don't work against large armies, but probably do against the daimons considering that their forces are all bunched up into one unit...

No sacrificial unit can survive against the Daimons and remain on the field in that same round. Their charge is devastating enough to break down anything and route them in one round. so after that the Daimons just charge their next target. You need half your infantry if you want to stop them in their tracks, but that is not a sacrificial unit then.

I guess you could try figuring out where the daimons start from, how far they move, and try to make it fit so that they don't meet on the first round, but end up by each other.

Yes, this has been Riombara's main tactic against them during my tenure.  I am sure this works as I've seen tons of battle reports to back it up, however, we never really managed to use this against them. When we faced Overlord we figured it out that he begins in front row, however, we failed there are as we were unable to make middle row our first line - someone always ended up in front and then the entire row was charged at. And we failed that 3 battles in a row. Very annoying.

The second time we faced the Daimons which were also chargers they didn't really behave like they should. These ones started from the middle, and we figured that out, so we attacked them with infantry charge. Under these conditions they ought not to charge. But they did, and my best bet of what actually happened is that they used a magic scroll before the battle to make sure they always charge - Magic Steeds or something. Anyway, when that happened I figured there was nothing reliable enough here that i can build my strategy on. Their unpredictability in and out of battle is what will eventually score them a win. This is probably the point where I gave up and just let myself be taken by the flow and endure a slow but certain death of Riombara and Beluaterra. Especially since not to much after that they showed up with 35K from the blight south of grehk (although they never attacked from there during the entire invasion - which wreaks of artificiality for me) and sacked our capital while we were coming back home from the last battle - that was very very devastating and demoralizing. So I think I will just run the rest of my time of this month as a general leisurely, as i really have no idea what to do, and then let someone else use his wits and time for the grand finale and death of BT.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on April 13, 2012, 04:56:51 PM
as i really have no idea what to do, and then let someone else use his wits and time for the grand finale and death of BT.

I see the "crushing their spirits" strategy works well.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Arrakis on April 13, 2012, 04:57:56 PM
Yeah, it most certainly does.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Iltaran on April 13, 2012, 05:10:14 PM
I for one am swinging wildly between utter despair and screaming "YOU SHALL NOT PASS"
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on April 13, 2012, 05:23:26 PM
Ever since the invasion started, I have had an eye on all the statistics I can find. The most interesting find so far is that player evaluation fluctuates much greater than the actual numbers. When you feel utterly beaten and destroyed, the actual loss in military or economic strength is still a fraction of the total. I am actually surprised by how few lives have been lost among the peasants, at less than 20% of the total island population. It certainly feels more.

Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Indirik on April 13, 2012, 05:25:11 PM
That's because they keep reproducing like rabbits when you're not looking.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Dageroths on April 13, 2012, 05:39:34 PM
And Firbalt is blighted  :'(

Quote
Roleplaying Event   (9 hours ago)
Message sent to everyone in the vicinity of Firbalt (20 recipients)
As the Daimon control over the city solidifies, the horrors hasten their slaughtering of the population. Soon, fear and suffering hangs in the air, thick as clouds. And then it actually forms clouds. Dark, black clouds that block out the sun completely. Within a few hours, the familiar, frightening sight of the Blight is forming over and inside the city, pushing the thinner clouds further outside, into the surrounding regions.

And then, as far as anyone can see from the outside, Firbalt vanishes into the Blight.

Overlord
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on April 13, 2012, 06:14:42 PM
Ever since the invasion started, I have had an eye on all the statistics I can find. The most interesting find so far is that player evaluation fluctuates much greater than the actual numbers. When you feel utterly beaten and destroyed, the actual loss in military or economic strength is still a fraction of the total. I am actually surprised by how few lives have been lost among the peasants, at less than 20% of the total island population. It certainly feels more.

Our material losses might not be as bad as our loss of morale, but the balance of forces has certainly been swinging in the daimons' favor, which always makes it hard to keep one's spirits up.

For my part I've been arguing that we should just leave the rest of the South to its fate and turn the islands into a massively militarized fortress. It's downright stupid to go off chasing Midnight of the South when he can pop into the blight from anywhere and pop back out a day later in Ardmore or Ajitmon. Meanwhile our army could be off in the middle of Enweil and completely powerless to get back in time.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Eithad on April 14, 2012, 12:06:48 AM
Fighting Horrors:
We are having considerable trouble avoiding the initial daimon cav charge...its devastating. Once our infantry line can engage we have a good chance. Thus I would be VERY interested in suggestions on how to arrange our army with the aim to close with the daimons while avoiding the initial charge.

Sacrificial units one row in front of the main line? If yes, inf or cav? Sending cav in front of the infantry line to hit the Horrors one round in advance of the main line (allowing the main line to move up?

Our army consists of 7 parts infantry/SF/MI,  2 parts archers, 1 part cav.

Heavy Infantry, big blocks of them on top of high walls is always a good way to break a charge. Sprinkle in some Cavalry to charge ranged daimons and tie them up long enough for your infantry to engage and you are set.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Marlboro on April 14, 2012, 12:16:39 AM
Heavy Infantry, big blocks of them on top of high walls is always a good way to break a charge. Sprinkle in some Cavalry to charge ranged daimons and tie them up long enough for your infantry to engage and you are set.

Walls are undependable. I have learned to hate walls. They don't save you from getting one-shot by the far mob, and the near mob gets a free bonus charge every time you knock them down (which is honestly the only scary thing they do in melee). Also, get rid of all your archers; the daimons have better ones, so your goal is to engage them in melee ASAP rather than trying to fight them on their strengths.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Eithad on April 14, 2012, 12:50:52 AM
Have a look at the battle report from Unger, you will disagree.

Quote

Total hits suffered: Attackers: 19739 (16759 from close combat and 2980 from ranged), Defenders: 5917 (5403 from close combat and 514 from ranged)
Total casualties: 109 attackers, 148 defenders

Total hits suffered: Attackers: 15474 (11214 from close combat and 4260 from ranged), Defenders: 6139 (5585 from close combat and 554 from ranged)
Total casualties: 100 attackers, 159 defenders

Then our cavalry left the walls and charged them

Total hits suffered: Attackers: 3520 (1641 from close combat and 1879 from ranged), Defenders: 2840 (2539 from close combat and 301 from ranged)
Total casualties: 27 attackers, 69 defenders

Total hits suffered: Attackers: 2353 (184 from close combat and 2169 from ranged), Defenders: 1020 (752 from close combat and 268 from ranged)
Total casualties: 19 attackers, 25 defenders

Then our calvary died and they charged the walls again

Total hits suffered: Attackers: 9444 (5978 from close combat and 3466 from ranged), Defenders: 2977 (2456 from close combat and 521 from ranged)
Total casualties: 52 attackers, 77 defenders

You will see that archers are effective, as long as you provide adequate infantry cover. Also even with superior CS the daimon charge really isnt as fearsome as you make it out to be considering we were scoring twice as many hits in close combat with our infantry.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Eithad on April 14, 2012, 01:00:57 AM
Also consider this

Quote
Total:
3 attackers (900 other)
38 defenders (760 Inf, 848 Arch, 165 Cav, 354 SF)
Total combat strengths: 31752 vs. 24956

Daimons had 33CS/daimon while we averaged 12.5 CS per man behind lvl 5 walls. Our losses to kills ratio in terms of CS was actually very good. 400 of those daimons were ranged, firing at 5 rows on lvl 5 walls, they were scoring less just over 1 hit per daimon. Meanwhile our archers averaged 3 hits per man. Walls are your friends.

The battle only went badly after the 3 remain melee daimons managed to break our melee lines, then the archers got torn to shreds.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Marlboro on April 14, 2012, 03:00:14 AM
My point exactly, in melee the Daimons aren't very scary at all. But the front horde keeps you from hitting the second horde, which is steadily bumping off one unit per combat round walls or no.
As the Daimons do not do huge hits in melee, the walls do not make much of a difference for them either.

Here's the first encounter in Mouzl:
# Round
1) They are at the very other end of the field, and can barely hit us. But...
Defiance of the North (9) take 397 hits from archer fire, which cause 9 casualties.
Antoni Guard (4) take 554 hits from archer fire, which cause 10 casualties.
2) Defiance of the North (9) take 1253 hits from archer fire, which cause 29 casualties, wiping the unit out.
3) Winifael Lancers (25) take 3351 hits (138 in close combat, 3213 from archer fire), which cause 32 casualties, wiping the unit out.
4) Roaring Thunder (21) take 3451 hits (38 in close combat, 3413 from archer fire), which cause 10 casualties, wiping the unit out.
Sir Bergelmir Crownguard of Thalmarkin (Knight of Winifael, Thalmarkin) has been wounded by Blight Creatures (2).
5) Antoni Guard (4) take 2554 hits (120 in close combat, 2434 from archer fire), which cause 47 casualties, making the unit retreat from the battlefield. 9 Melhed banners fall.
6) Elite Axemen (10) take 1337 hits from archer fire, which cause 29 casualties, making the unit retreat from the battlefield.
7) City Watch (6) take 919 hits from archer fire, which cause 14 casualties, wiping the unit out.
8) Random Untrained Guys With Forks (AKA legendary badasses) use their pally bubble and somehow luck out here.
9) Oh wait... Random Untrained Guys With Forks (19) take 885 hits from archer fire, which cause 18 casualties, making the unit retreat from the battlefield.
10) Masters of Archer is a big unit, they can take this...
11) Nope. Masters of Archer (13) take 1048 hits from archer fire, which cause 35 casualties, making the unit retreat from the battlefield.
12) =S= Sleeping Dragon Company (3) take 1334 hits (154 in close combat, 1180 from archer fire), which cause 32 casualties, wiping the unit out.
13) SS-Police Force (22) take 993 hits from archer fire, which cause 32 casualties, wiping the unit out.
14) Orde Longbowmen (17) take 1034 hits from archer fire, which cause 36 casualties, making the unit retreat from the battlefield.
15) Guardsmen (12) take 825 hits from archer fire, which cause 32 casualties, causing panicked flight among the survivors, 1 additional men get slaughtered during the retreat.
Battle ends.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Eithad on April 14, 2012, 03:32:31 AM
My point exactly, in melee the Daimons aren't very scary at all. But the front horde keeps you from hitting the second horde, which is steadily bumping off one unit per combat round walls or no.

Horrors (2) fire on Questors Myrmidons (27), scoring 3497 hits.
Questors Myrmidons (27) take 831 hits (317 in close combat, 514 from archer fire) (reduced due to fortifications), which cause 20 casualties.

I beg to differ, from being behind level 5 walls, that unit survived 3497 hits, if you ignore the close combat hits, thats more like 15 casualties. If no walls, that unit would be gone. Walls are important.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Marlboro on April 14, 2012, 03:37:46 AM
Then they got wiped out next turn because they sat on the wall, right? A defensive strategy is a losing strategy here.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Eithad on April 14, 2012, 03:51:32 AM
Questors Myrmidons (27) score 1133 hits on Horrors (3). on turn 2

This is what they did the next turn, then the next three turns the cavalry were engaged so they waited, then this

Questors Myrmidons (27) score 740 hits on Horrors (1). on turn 6
Questors Myrmidons (27) score 393 hits on Horrors (3) on turn 7
Questors Myrmidons (27) score 569 hits on Horrors (1). on turn 8
Questors Myrmidons (27) score 353 hits on Horrors (1). on turn 9

then they retreated and fought in the next battle. So yeah walls are good.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on April 14, 2012, 04:28:28 AM
Death is back.

I guess it's an okay time for it.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Eithad on April 14, 2012, 04:38:03 AM
Death is back.


No its not, the message said executions and death duels will now be done, they have always existed.

Death in terms of dying in battle as a non hero is not back. You can not die in any new circumstance where you would not be able to die on any other continent. So nothing new, Tom was just nice to give us a warning.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on April 14, 2012, 04:42:36 AM
Death in terms of dying in battle as a non hero is not back. You can not die in any new circumstance where you would not be able to die on any other continent. So nothing new, Tom was just nice to give us a warning.

Yeah, and the ink was barely dry when the first people whined about it.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on April 14, 2012, 04:46:33 AM
No its not, the message said executions and death duels will now be done, they have always existed.

Death in terms of dying in battle as a non hero is not back. You can not die in any new circumstance where you would not be able to die on any other continent. So nothing new, Tom was just nice to give us a warning.

Reread it. Perhaps I read it too fast, but so did you. It's not just like any other continent.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: mikm on April 14, 2012, 10:33:47 AM
Regardng duels to death, is every character on the island supose to know Overlord is unkillable?
From an IC perspective.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Eithad on April 14, 2012, 11:05:37 AM
Reread it. Perhaps I read it too fast, but so did you. It's not just like any other continent.

Please clarify, how so.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on April 14, 2012, 11:22:46 AM
Regardng duels to death, is every character on the island supose to know Overlord is unkillable?
From an IC perspective.

No, of course not. But it was important to mention it OOC before there is even more whining and complaining.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: mikm on April 14, 2012, 12:22:48 PM
Regarding the invasion. It is not as harcore as it could be.
In the last one there were 3 invaders. Here only one.
New nobles can travel to Bleutera. In the last invasion they couldn't.
Invaders come in waves with plenty of time in between to prepare. In the last invasion they  came nonstop. At least that is what I've noticed the monsters were doing.
And finlly, during the last invasion, there was a mass loss of popultion. Those monsters could eat like hundres of peasents each turn. Some regions had like 10 population.


Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: OFaolain on April 14, 2012, 12:47:36 PM
Reread it. Perhaps I read it too fast, but so did you. It's not just like any other continent.

That you don't have to first have been banned from Netherworld for Tom to execute you is the only difference that I see.  From the message Tom sent out to everybody: "None of these are changes to the game mechanics, but simply changes in how I play."  So random mortality for non-heroes should still be disabled.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Eithad on April 14, 2012, 01:42:43 PM
From today on, Overlord will kill those who openly disrespect him, if he gets the chance (e.g. dungeon prisoners who can be executed, death duels, etc.)

As far as I know dungeon prisoners who can be executed are either those who have been banned or have low honour. It does not say dungeon prisoners period. It says ones who can be executed, as if they were captured by any other realm. So no difference I can see than any other realm or continent.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on April 14, 2012, 01:58:40 PM
That you don't have to first have been banned from Netherworld for Tom to execute you is the only difference that I see.

Which is, imo, pretty significant.

From today on, Overlord will kill those who openly disrespect him, if he gets the chance (e.g. dungeon prisoners who can be executed, death duels, etc.)

As far as I know dungeon prisoners who can be executed are either those who have been banned or have low honour. It does not say dungeon prisoners period. It says ones who can be executed, as if they were captured by any other realm. So no difference I can see than any other realm or continent.

I'm assuming you can be executed by the netherworld without a ban now.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on April 14, 2012, 02:47:12 PM
Which is, imo, pretty significant.

And also false.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on April 14, 2012, 04:40:49 PM
Regardng duels to death, is every character on the island supose to know Overlord is unkillable?
From an IC perspective.

...Dude. He is a 20-foot tall monster wielding a sword and armor made of screaming human souls. You may choose to have your character react however you like to those facts, but seriously. Who the hell would think they actually had a chance?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on April 14, 2012, 04:43:10 PM
...Dude. He is a 20-foot tall monster wielding a sword and armor made of screaming human souls. You may choose to have your character react however you like to those facts, but seriously. Who the hell would think they actually had a chance?

Actually, he assured my character in Thalmarkin that the souls are silent.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: D`Este on April 14, 2012, 05:35:13 PM
...Dude. He is a 20-foot tall monster wielding a sword and armor made of screaming human souls. You may choose to have your character react however you like to those facts, but seriously. Who the hell would think they actually had a chance?

They "die" in combat, so why not in a duel?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on April 14, 2012, 05:36:16 PM
I'm not saying they couldn't. Just that no sane person would think that he'd be able to do it single-handedly in a one on one duel.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lefanis on April 14, 2012, 06:52:36 PM
...Dude. He is a 20-foot tall monster wielding a sword and armor made of screaming human souls. You may choose to have your character react however you like to those facts, but seriously. Who the hell would think they actually had a chance?

(http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ln7y06GbKE1qgj47l.jpg)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: OFaolain on April 14, 2012, 07:56:57 PM
And also false.

Huh, I figured they wouldn't follow silly human conventions like "warnings".  Well color me mistaken; so, Overlord will be dropping bans on people who are flippant/call him out/are openly defiant (if he hasn't done so already) and executions will follow on the second capture?

@Lefanis: YOU WERE THE CHOSEN ONE!
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: mikm on April 14, 2012, 08:30:01 PM
Provided huminaty loses, there are like 3 options for a noble:
1. Become Overlord's slave- provided he is still accepting slaves.
2. Get on ship and flee the island.
3. Fight to the death.(or opose till death you could say)
The third is the most honrable one out.

Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on April 14, 2012, 08:47:30 PM
Huh, I figured they wouldn't follow silly human conventions like "warnings".  Well color me mistaken; so, Overlord will be dropping bans on people who are flippant/call him out/are openly defiant (if he hasn't done so already) and executions will follow on the second capture?

He has to follow the same game-mechanics, so there will be bans. However, some characters can be executed immediately without a ban. Adventurers, for example. And I capture plenty of those.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on April 15, 2012, 05:20:29 AM
He has to follow the same game-mechanics, so there will be bans. However, some characters can be executed immediately without a ban. Adventurers, for example. And I capture plenty of those.

Can he ban battle captives? If so, then it's not the same mechanics. If not, then is he really gonna be able to truly execute all that many slanderous noble as you seem to claim he will?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on April 15, 2012, 06:25:12 AM
Can he ban battle captives? If so, then it's not the same mechanics.

I said at least twice that there are no changes to or new game-mechanics.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on April 15, 2012, 04:38:48 PM
I said at least twice that there are no changes to or new game-mechanics.

So the characters you capture in battle will continue to slander Overlord, as they'll be immune to execution, as will infiltrators after their first offense?

What was the point of your announcement, then?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Telrunya on April 15, 2012, 04:43:28 PM
There won't be special treatment any more. Death Duels will be accepted now. If you're going to slander Overlord, expect 7 days of torture. If you don't, you might get released a bit earlier. And Adventurers won't be safe any more either. It's a change in policy, it's good it's been announced, or otherwise people would have probably complained too.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on April 15, 2012, 04:53:06 PM
So the characters you capture in battle will continue to slander Overlord, as they'll be immune to execution, as will infiltrators after their first offense?

What was the point of your announcement, then?

Unfortunately, that will likely happen. But at least the infiltrators will shut up now after I've banned them, and if other people try to play hero while inside the Netherworld prison, I can torture them twice daily for the full 7 days, steal their gold so they can't pay ransom - all things I haven't done so far. And if they overdo it, I could use the deportation option. Basically, whatever options there are, I will now use them when I feel like it.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: JPierreD on April 15, 2012, 05:05:39 PM
Unfortunately, that will likely happen. But at least the infiltrators will shut up now after I've banned them, and if other people try to play hero while inside the Netherworld prison, I can torture them twice daily for the full 7 days, steal their gold so they can't pay ransom - all things I haven't done so far. And if they overdo it, I could use the deportation option. Basically, whatever options there are, I will now use them when I feel like it.

Great, this should certainly make things much more fun. :D
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on April 15, 2012, 05:06:52 PM
Unfortunately, that will likely happen. But at least the infiltrators will shut up now after I've banned them, and if other people try to play hero while inside the Netherworld prison, I can torture them twice daily for the full 7 days, steal their gold so they can't pay ransom - all things I haven't done so far. And if they overdo it, I could use the deportation option. Basically, whatever options there are, I will now use them when I feel like it.

Why weren't you doing this since day one?

If someone did the same thing in a human prison, he wouldn't expect such kind treatment. Why should a daimon prison be any nicer than a human prison?

When I read the announcement, I (and apparently others) thought it meant that netherworld dungeons would start to become a truly scary place. Instead, it just means that the netherworld dungeons will stop being carebear land and will be on the same level of scariness as human dungeons.

I cannot understand your patience with some characters. "You reap what you sow" is the philosophy that's always governed these things in BM, it wouldn't have been unfair or unfun to be just as harsh as human dungeons.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on April 15, 2012, 05:35:32 PM
Why weren't you doing this since day one?

Fun of the players.

Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on April 15, 2012, 05:56:46 PM
Fun of the players.

Non-sense. Should human judges not torture foreign nobles that insult them or execute repeat offenders out of fear for the "fun of the players"?

Players aren't children, they can (and should) assume the consequences of their acts. You were being way too soft for nothing. Being able to insult Overlord and get away with it doesn't make things more fun, it just makes the invasion feel less real, less threatening.

It's not like if you would have tortured every war captive 2 times per day (which would be extremely unlikely to happen in a human dungeon due to h/p loss), after all.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Penchant on April 15, 2012, 06:00:15 PM
Non-sense. Should human judges not torture foreign nobles that insult them or execute repeat offenders out of fear for the "fun of the players"?

Players aren't children, they can (and should) assume the consequences of their acts. You were being way too soft for nothing. Being able to insult Overlord and get away with it doesn't make things more fun, it just makes the invasion feel less real, less threatening.

It's not like if you would have tortured every war captive 2 times per day (which would be extremely unlikely to happen in a human dungeon due to h/p loss), after all.
You may be right but calling his reason non-sense should not have been said as I can understand his reasoning and that was his actual reason so it is not non-sense.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on April 15, 2012, 06:15:54 PM
You may be right but calling his reason non-sense should not have been said as I can understand his reasoning and that was his actual reason so it is not non-sense.

I don't really understand what you are trying to say, but perhaps I could have said it more respectfully.

I just don't think he should have imposed such restrictions on himself, and that the unexplainable gentleness he used to display is what caused many players to jump to conclusions and think things were gonna be worse than what he meant to say.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Penchant on April 15, 2012, 06:21:19 PM
To rephrase it I agree with you but in my opinion when you called it non-sense it made it sound like you were either saying the reason was stupid or that he was lying as in it non-sense that the fun for players was Tom's reason and that he was lying or that his reason is non-sense and thus stupid.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on April 15, 2012, 06:24:17 PM
To rephrase it I agree with you but in my opinion when you called it non-sense it made it sound like you were either saying the reason was stupid or that he was lying as in it non-sense that the fun for players was Tom's reason and that he was lying or that his reason is non-sense and thus stupid.

Well, I don't see the logic behind it, so perhaps I'm the stupid one.  ;)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Anaris on April 15, 2012, 06:26:19 PM
Non-sense. Should human judges not torture foreign nobles that insult them or execute repeat offenders out of fear for the "fun of the players"?

Players aren't children, they can (and should) assume the consequences of their acts. You were being way too soft for nothing. Being able to insult Overlord and get away with it doesn't make things more fun, it just makes the invasion feel less real, less threatening.

It's not like if you would have tortured every war captive 2 times per day (which would be extremely unlikely to happen in a human dungeon due to h/p loss), after all.

I don't disagree with you in principle, but you've seen how much people have been upset about the stuff Tom already does. I would be very surprised if people hadn't raged more vehemently at him for torturing and executing their characters every chance he got.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on April 15, 2012, 07:00:06 PM
I don't disagree with you in principle, but you've seen how much people have been upset about the stuff Tom already does. I would be very surprised if people hadn't raged more vehemently at him for torturing and executing their characters every chance he got.

They're just lucky they didn't fall in Riombaran dungeons...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on April 15, 2012, 07:03:37 PM
They're just lucky they didn't fall in Riombaran dungeons...

Haha. Did you forget who started the torturing already? ;)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on April 15, 2012, 07:07:43 PM
Haha. Did you forget who started the torturing already? ;)

Riombara, with the illegal execution of Katia Zotral that broke the prisoner agreement that forbid it.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Indirik on April 15, 2012, 07:15:35 PM
...execution of Katia Zotral ...

I have to admit, I cheered when I heard about that one.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on April 15, 2012, 09:01:33 PM
I just don't think he should have imposed such restrictions on himself, and that the unexplainable gentleness he used to display is what caused many players to jump to conclusions and think things were gonna be worse than what he meant to say.

As the saying goes, no good deed ever goes unpunished.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Bedwyr on April 15, 2012, 09:30:47 PM
Fun of the players.

The kind of behavior you describe is stuff that can and has gotten people tortured, executed, and banned by their home realm in the main game.  I remember one case where an insult was sent that was found so appalling that the home realm banned him immediately upon their Judge's receipt of the insult, the character tortured to lower escape chances, and an execution attempt made as soon as the ban went through.  Does that always happen?  No.  But people don't do the stuff you're describing in human prisons for the real fear of the consequences.

Long story short, feed 'em to the soulforges, and make special mention of how the crotch plate of this Daimon is adorned by the tormented soul of the offending character.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on April 15, 2012, 11:20:16 PM
As the saying goes, no good deed ever goes unpunished.

Indeed.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: De-Legro on April 16, 2012, 02:01:58 AM
Why weren't you doing this since day one?

If someone did the same thing in a human prison, he wouldn't expect such kind treatment. Why should a daimon prison be any nicer than a human prison?

When I read the announcement, I (and apparently others) thought it meant that netherworld dungeons would start to become a truly scary place. Instead, it just means that the netherworld dungeons will stop being carebear land and will be on the same level of scariness as human dungeons.

I cannot understand your patience with some characters. "You reap what you sow" is the philosophy that's always governed these things in BM, it wouldn't have been unfair or unfun to be just as harsh as human dungeons.

Simple because he is a GM and the actions he takes always seem to have more significance then if a player took the same actions.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on April 16, 2012, 10:12:58 AM
And Overlord refuses to fight us in Unger!

And then he wonders why we don't fear him... ;)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on April 16, 2012, 11:37:27 AM
And Overlord refuses to fight us in Unger!

And then he wonders why we don't fear him... ;)

I wouldn't call it refuse when he basically said he'll be there - right after taking a short detour to slaughter a few thousand innocents. :-)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: D`Este on April 16, 2012, 11:40:18 AM
Congrats Tom with being clever, hopefully you understand that some people will be a bit grumpy about it.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Noldorin on April 16, 2012, 01:14:48 PM
I am fully aware that this may be seen as whining etc, but I suppose there is no way to get around it if I want to bring up the issue...

It has very correctly been stated by Tom that if he wanted to win this invasion easily he could just have created 1 million CS units and kill us in an instant, and that he has not done so to make it a playable invasion. However as things are turning out right now, Im not sure the current situation is a whole lot more easy to cope with.

With the battles we saw recently with the simultaneous attacks on 5(?) capitals, almost no realm alone was able to face these attacks. Thalmarkin might have survived in the long run (though it would have been very close, and very unsure) and we were just lucky to kill the Daimon leader which meant his soldiers disappeared.

So, our only chance would be cooperation, which means that we must gather several armies in one place. The problem is that when we do this, we leave all other realms more or less undefended. This would be quite ok though, if we knew there would be battle in the strong place. If at the same time the overlord changes his mind about lying (which he has said several times that he would not do) then we are quite screwed. (It might be a bit silly to assume our enemy will not lie, but frankly that was our only shot and chance.) So now, if armies are gathered somewhere it is even more easy peasy for the overlord to burn down all other cities. This kinda leaves us in the situation that whatever we do, we fail. What has led to all the negative comments etc I think is the complete lack of knowledge of what is going on, and the frustratition that whatever we do, nothing helps.

This has of course been a choosen strategy for this invaison (with new priests and commanders arriving as soon as we kill the old ones), and it has been a different kind of challenge (though the outlaying of the invasion is bound to cause large amounts of frustration as well). Another problem with this is that our only information about how to handle this has come from our enemies, who has been lying to us from the start. Even though I understand that is not a great deal of fun to mostly receive whining and complaints for something you spend a lot of time on, I can also see the frustration of many players (myself included...)

So uhm, not a very fun first post to make, but there it is anyway :)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on April 16, 2012, 01:19:44 PM
I am fully aware that this may be seen as whining etc, but I suppose there is no way to get around it if I want to bring up the issue...

It has very correctly been stated by Tom that if he wanted to win this invasion easily he could just have created 1 million CS units and kill us in an instant, and that he has not done so to make it a playable invasion. However as things are turning out right now, Im not sure the current situation is a whole lot more easy to cope with.

With the battles we saw recently with the simultaneous attacks on 5(?) capitals, almost no realm alone was able to face these attacks. Thalmarkin might have survived in the long run (though it would have been very close, and very unsure) and we were just lucky to kill the Daimon leader which meant his soldiers disappeared.

So, our only chance would be cooperation, which means that we must gather several armies in one place. The problem is that when we do this, we leave all other realms more or less undefended. This would be quite ok though, if we knew there would be battle in the strong place. If at the same time the overlord changes his mind about lying (which he has said several times that he would not do) then we are quite screwed. (It might be a bit silly to assume our enemy will not lie, but frankly that was our only shot and chance.) So now, if armies are gathered somewhere it is even more easy peasy for the overlord to burn down all other cities. This kinda leaves us in the situation that whatever we do, we fail. What has led to all the negative comments etc I think is the complete lack of knowledge of what is going on, and the frustratition that whatever we do, nothing helps.

This has of course been a choosen strategy for this invaison (with new priests and commanders arriving as soon as we kill the old ones), and it has been a different kind of challenge (though the outlaying of the invasion is bound to cause large amounts of frustration as well). Another problem with this is that our only information about how to handle this has come from our enemies, who has been lying to us from the start. Even though I understand that is not a great deal of fun to mostly receive whining and complaints for something you spend a lot of time on, I can also see the frustration of many players (myself included...)

So uhm, not a very fun first post to make, but there it is anyway :)

TOs of capitals take a while. A wise strategy might still be to coordinate armies to move together, liberating capital after capital together, instead of everyone rushing home against superior forces.

Sucks for whoever's turn to get liberated is last, though. XD
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Noldorin on April 16, 2012, 01:34:58 PM
TOs of capitals take a while. A wise strategy might still be to coordinate armies to move together, liberating capital after capital together, instead of everyone rushing home against superior forces.

Sucks for whoever's turn to get liberated is last, though. XD

Yeah, unfortunatley we have spread out the capitals quite good to each corner of the still remaining world. Even if we had started running directly we barely would have made to Firbalt or Reeds, even if our armies had not been crashed completly in Unger.

But hey, any suggestion are welcome! Im quite empty of them at the moment...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on April 16, 2012, 02:09:15 PM
Yeah, unfortunatley we have spread out the capitals quite good to each corner of the still remaining world. Even if we had started running directly we barely would have made to Firbalt or Reeds, even if our armies had not been crashed completly in Unger.

But hey, any suggestion are welcome! Im quite empty of them at the moment...

Our capital's also under siege. :P

charger/archer combo is pretty devastating. We didn't stand a chance.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Darksun on April 16, 2012, 04:37:32 PM
I think we used the wrong tactics, but that's just me.

With the Charger/Archers you should use all the infantry possible. Ties up the chargers and prevents the archers from screaming death onto you. We had way to many archers in that battle. We managed to wound Midnight and I'm guessing with a full infantry regiment, we likely could have killed him and taken out ALL the horrors.

Battle, for those interested: http://battlemaster.org/ShowScribeNote.php?ID=518782&Hash=352fa508dbb69d78
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on April 16, 2012, 06:09:08 PM
Congrats Tom with being clever, hopefully you understand that some people will be a bit grumpy about it.

Of course. That's the point. By the time I hit your assembled armies with Overlord, I want everyone dying... err... dying to kill the bastard, of course. I want people charging ahead of the army just for a chance to take the first blow at him. What good is a villain if you don't absolutely hate him?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on April 16, 2012, 06:15:47 PM
So, our only chance would be cooperation, which means that we must gather several armies in one place. The problem is that when we do this, we leave all other realms more or less undefended. This would be quite ok though, if we knew there would be battle in the strong place. If at the same time the overlord changes his mind about lying (which he has said several times that he would not do) then we are quite screwed.

He has been lying all the time. He just mostly did it in places where it wasn't easy to call him out. But anyway, that's not the point.

The simultaneous attack on four (Grehk was quite a bit later) capitals was intended as a killing blow to human morale. And it has had most of the devastating effect that I anticipated, though I am surprised at how quickly most realms recovered, at least according to pure numbers.


Again, take your frustration in-character. Scream with hatred and damn the evil bastard to all hells you know. Don't let IC get to you OOC.

I am fully aware that you have to make very tough judgement calls based on little information. That's part of the game here. Left or right? Either way could mean death and suffering for thousands of your peasants. But you have to make the call.

It's not a very friendly game at this moment, but it is still a game. Don't let IC get to you OOC.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Daycryn on April 16, 2012, 06:55:59 PM
I was totally expecting more peace and love in a game called BATTLEMASTER.

*shakes fist... but not too angrily*
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: mikm on April 16, 2012, 07:05:38 PM
That realm who'se name I can not read near Enwill is getting the beating now.  The daimons have somehow been ignoring the south for quite a while.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Telrunya on April 16, 2012, 07:11:29 PM
Everyone just calls them IVF. I bet even Chenier calls it IVF ;) The Daimons were in Melegra earlier, got beaten and captured, and blighted Grehk once Midnight of the South escaped. The Daimons have been concentrating on the North as the strongest opponent, but the South is getting action as well.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on April 16, 2012, 09:36:57 PM
Sorry Tom but I just cannot not say my piece.

I have played on BT for every single invasion - and in between them. I suppose I'm a veteran BT player and having said that, I'm at peace with the fact that BT will probably be harvested entirely for the soul forges. I just strongly believe that this continent that has brought so much enjoyment to me and many other players may not go out without a bang. Your current tactics make me fear that this will exactly be the case. You are heading straight for your IC goal but are losing touch with your OOC ones:

1. Theme.

Overlord does not instill fear.
You've recently come to us complaining that we need to take this seriously and we can't go around calling Overlord a pussy. Yet, by all standards, he is a pussy. I've played in all invasions and Overlord is the most cowardly invader BT has ever seen. He isn't looking for big, epic fights, he isn't looking to prove his complete and utter supremacy over the human slaves and he does not respond in any real way to interactions with characters.
The actions of Overlord, like surprise-attacking undefended cities repeatedly,  basically just avoiding any human army and lying about everything while boasting how terrifying he is do not instill fear. If he were to come marching to Unger and beat the gathered armies there bloody, basically if he didn't shy away from any sort of challenge on his path, yes, he would be terrifying. But as he prefers his pickings as easy as they come, he isn't.

Overlord will only instill fear if he rises up to challenges and overcomes them. If he does that, people will think twice before poking the big bad beast with a stick again. The knowledge that even their mere words can mean the immediate death of their realm is far more terrifying than any torture, execution or blighting you do.

2. Fun.

I have enjoyed this invasion a lot, I've been a great defender of it against anyone who I've seen complain that it's impossible or that the daimons are overpowered. Even when you captured pretty much all of us off-guard and blighted 4 out of 9 capitals (and let's not forget Fengen either). Those Horrors were a terrible enemy to fight and I couldn't have thought of a better introduction of them to the continent. I don't mind their strength, they are supposed to be obliterating and they're pretty damn good at it. People come to BT to fight impossible odds, and if they're good and if they're lucky, survive them. That is what invasions have been about since the first one, and that is how you introduced this one as well.

You started excellently. With small daimon hordes that were beatable. Also the concept of semi-immortal commanders was refreshing and very well thought-out. It added a lot to the atmosphere. Not to forget the different types of daimons we've come across, getting more bad-ass as the invasion progressed. They were a challenge and getting more and more so to the point where one realm alone could hardly hope to stand victorious against only one horde (barring a stroke of luck like killing the darkest hour in Unger, we were never victorious, just happened to kill the commander). We were fighting impossible odds and things were starting to look more and more grim.

Yet as we've come to this point, you're not giving us the chance to fight impossible odds. You choose desolated capitals and decide to take them in the knowledge that we can never take them back, in fact even trying (and succeeding) to mislead us into leaving those capitals undefended. We just need to undergo the loss of two capitals, we aren't given an opportunity to defend them, we aren't given the opportunity to make an epic last stand. They're just lost and that's that.
Even when we try to change things IC, putting everything we have at risk, you choose to ignore it (yes you can say it's Overlord, not you, but then why is he always boasting or even talking to us if he doesn't care in the least about what we think? And why should we even try to interact with him if everything we say doesn't matter anyway?) and you just go for the fastest way to destroy the continent.
Sorry, but this is not what invasions are about. Not even one where the very survival of the continent is at stake, especially not that one. They have always been about fighting impossible odds. And since the third, interacting with the invaders, provoking them, boasting against them, making deals with them, whatever. Any of those actions however had IG effects. Now... they don't.

And that is just very disillusioning.

It is just not the death that BT deserves. BT deserves to die in a series of epic, close battles and mutual taunting. Battles in which humanity musters all that it possibly can just for a tiny chance at victory.
When our characters are chased off this continent they need to flee with nothing but rags and amazing, yet terrifying stories. With the feeling that they gave it everything they had but still failed before the sheer strength of the daimons. Not with the feeling that if Overlord had actually dared to figh them prepared, they could've won.
And if BT survives (which I don't think is very realistic at the moment, and there's many a frequenter of this forum that can tell you what an accomplishment it is on your part to defeat my belief in human victory) they should be able to tell epic stories of how they brought everything they had together and actually defeated the biggest threat the continent had ever seen. (there is no other version here because there is absolutely zero chance that BT will survive if you continue to go after targets where we don't have an army).

I hope you don't discard this as yet another "the daimons are overpowered" rant because it isn't. Daimons reign supreme on the battlefield and they should. There's just other ways to use that power that are more enjoyable to the players that are likely losing their positions, realm and continent already. And if you have to increase the daimons' actual battle-strength to do that, then do it.
Just please do not stop giving us that epicness that we have all experienced from the invasion so far and were expecting from what Overlord basically announced to be his World-Devourers.

My thanks for reading.

Edit: fixed a few language mistakes.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on April 16, 2012, 10:00:33 PM
Sorry Tom but I just cannot not say my piece.

I appreciate it. I really do.

Some short replies:


Quote
Overlord does not instill fear.

How much of that is a perception issue? The Germans in WW2 did not smash through the Magginot line, but went around it. That caused much more fear in the french than any assault on the fortified line could possibly have done.

Also, my experience has been somewhat different. Some of the worst trash-talking happened after massive defeats for the human enemies. When they were victorious, there was much less trash-talking and much more roleplaying. Not black-white, there was a share of either in either case, but in the majority.


Quote
2. Fun.

Thanks. To be honest, the attack on the capitals was much more successful than I had anticipated. It was a gamble because some of them were heavily defended and most had strong fortifications. And there were pitched battles in several, that could easily have gone the other way with better strategy and luck on the players side. In two capitals, magic cast by players actually strengthened the Horrors, which was every bit the nasty surprise that I had planned it out to be, but it surprised me that the first one to experience it didn't tell anyone. The second and third repetitions could have been avoided with better communication.

As for the detour to Ossmat - I was extremely surprised to not find half the OG army in it. I had announced the route Overlord would take the moment he left Firbalt, and it passed right by Ossmat. After almost every other capital had been attacked, I thought that was as obvious as I could make it without actually writing "oh, btw., I will sack Ossmat en route". Apparently, I was mistaken. To my mind, I dropped lots and lots of hints, from Overlord talking about him picking the battlefield to the fact that he's taking the long route at all when he could move into the Blight near Firbalt and emerge just north of Unger. But, apparently, it was not as obvious from a player perspective.



Quote
Sorry, but this is not what invasions are about. Not even one where the very survival of the continent is at stake, especially not that one. They have always been about fighting impossible odds. And since the third, interacting with the invaders, provoking them, boasting against them, making deals with them, whatever. Any of those actions however had IG effects. Now... they don't.

And that is just very disillusioning.

I said when it started out that every invasion has a topic. The last one had intrigue and multiple-faction-diplomacy. This one has (I think I can say it by now) brutal, unforgiving warfare and attrition.


Quote
It is just not the death that BT deserves. BT deserves to die in a series of epic, close battles and mutual taunting. Battles in which humanity musters all that it
possibly can just for a tiny chance at victory.

What makes you think that isn't yet coming?

Despite all the regions lost, human realms are still a lot stronger than they believe. I am surprised at how little impact the multi-day looting and destroying had. I thought that the rampage of all Daimon minions before the horrors appeared would put parts of BT into starvation - I was intentionally attacking the food stores with everything I had, including lots of magic. Not even close.

I am quite confident that there are still epic battles to come.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Marlboro on April 16, 2012, 10:06:32 PM
Unger sent all the food and booze to Duke Outo when they figured out the Daimons were raiding it...

They got SOME of the food back!
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: LilWolf on April 16, 2012, 10:15:50 PM
I am surprised at how little impact the multi-day looting and destroying had. I thought that the rampage of all Daimon minions before the horrors appeared would put parts of BT into starvation - I was intentionally attacking the food stores with everything I had, including lots of magic. Not even close.

To be fair that's sort of your own fault :)

You gave everyone a lot of extra food when you introduced the new food trade system. That surplus is still living on. You'd probably have had to loot half the regions of BT empty of food to see some starvation.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on April 16, 2012, 10:38:48 PM
To be fair that's sort of your own fault :)

You gave everyone a lot of extra food when you introduced the new food trade system. That surplus is still living on. You'd probably have had to loot half the regions of BT empty of food to see some starvation.

To be fair, I pretty much did. The rampage went on for several days, and I destroyed at least 20,000 bushels of food in that time, probably more. The Daimons hit the rural regions and infiltrators with scrolls of Decay hit the cities. I even had that ritual to make the weather bad. And still... wow.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: D`Este on April 16, 2012, 10:44:23 PM
And now with blighted cities the food won't be a problem at all ;)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on April 16, 2012, 10:49:52 PM
How much of that is a perception issue? The Germans in WW2 did not smash through the Magginot line, but went around it. That caused much more fear in the french than any assault on the fortified line could possibly have done.

I don't think it's the action itself that caused the fear. It's the fact that the entire German army was then suddenly marching through France without having met much opposition and continued to obliterate any resistance. They did not avoid their gathered opponents. They destroyed them. And it was this destruction that lead to the whole nation panicking and fleeing before the encroaching invaders.

The daimons are already on BT, they don't have Maginot lines to circumvent, quite the opposite actually.

Also, my experience has been somewhat different. Some of the worst trash-talking happened after massive defeats for the human enemies. When they were victorious, there was much less trash-talking and much more roleplaying. Not black-white, there was a share of either in either case, but in the majority.

Hmm. Maybe that's because they feel like they've got nothing to lose anymore... No idea really, I know I've only started trash-talking after victories... :)

In two capitals, magic cast by players actually strengthened the Horrors, which was every bit the nasty surprise that I had planned it out to be, but it surprised me that the first one to experience it didn't tell anyone. The second and third repetitions could have been avoided with better communication.

That's the first I'm hearing about it... Well except for that time that I cast a spell of fear on Overlord's troops and he told my char that had just strengthened his forces... but who is going to trust Overlord, right? :)

As for the detour to Ossmat - I was extremely surprised to not find half the OG army in it. I had announced the route Overlord would take the moment he left Firbalt, and it passed right by Ossmat. After almost every other capital had been attacked, I thought that was as obvious as I could make it without actually writing "oh, btw., I will sack Ossmat en route". Apparently, I was mistaken. To my mind, I dropped lots and lots of hints, from Overlord talking about him picking the battlefield to the fact that he's taking the long route at all when he could move into the Blight near Firbalt and emerge just north of Unger. But, apparently, it was not as obvious from a player perspective.

It really wasn't. We expected you to be cryptic like when you chose the first realm to destroy. When you just flat out said "I'm marching to Unger without any detours." there was nothing cryptic about it and thus it was perceived as the truth. Of course some of us were still wary but those of us in Thalmarkin really did as much as we could to rally our allies and Old Grehk - among others - answered.

I said when it started out that every invasion has a topic. The last one had intrigue and multiple-faction-diplomacy. This one has (I think I can say it by now) brutal, unforgiving warfare and attrition.

Nice. :)

What makes you think that isn't yet coming?

Despite all the regions lost, human realms are still a lot stronger than they believe. I am surprised at how little impact the multi-day looting and destroying had. I thought that the rampage of all Daimon minions before the horrors appeared would put parts of BT into starvation - I was intentionally attacking the food stores with everything I had, including lots of magic. Not even close.

I am quite confident that there are still epic battles to come.


I really hope so. I'm not saying that we're all weak already. Just... it's extremely hard to make those individual numbers merge into a coordinated survival effort. If we're mobile we cannot defend our cities, and if we're not mobile, our allies' undefended cities would get blighted, both paths would lead to obliteration without much battles as most realms would choose for immobility so they could at least keep sustaining that army.
Anyway, I'm very glad to see the new challenge from Overlord. And if he's not lying this time: thanks! :)

This is going to be one epic battle. :)

Unger sent all the food and booze to Duke Outo when they figured out the Daimons were raiding it...

They got SOME of the food back!

You have 666 bushels of food stored.  8)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on April 17, 2012, 12:04:30 AM
Also, my experience has been somewhat different. Some of the worst trash-talking happened after massive defeats for the human enemies. When they were victorious, there was much less trash-talking and much more roleplaying. Not black-white, there was a share of either in either case, but in the majority.

Oh by the way, there were actually plenty of roleplays yesterday in Unger in preparation of the siege. :)

One noble roleplaying the birth of his son and immediately sending him away out of the dangerous city and off the island, another sighing in desperation at all the green recruits that were to defend the city and then also an advy-bard performing some songs before the amassed nobles (not sure if it was the same that offended you while he was in prison but I thought he actually did a pretty damn good job with the songs he's written. :) ). A lot of fun to read.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on April 17, 2012, 12:09:49 AM
That's the first I'm hearing about it... Well except for that time that I cast a spell of fear on Overlord's troops and he told my char that had just strengthened his forces... but who is going to trust Overlord, right? :)

Yeah, but that was just some roleplaying fun. In the Banishment scroll cases, I posted an Event and actually visibly increased the number of horrors (for every 1 destroyed, there were 2 afterwards).


Quote
Anyway, I'm very glad to see the new challenge from Overlord. And if he's not lying this time: thanks! :)

Overlord never, ever lies...

No, why should I lie when everyone expects it? Lying is only worth the effort when everyone expects you to say the truth.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Marlboro on April 17, 2012, 12:17:29 AM
No, why should I lie when everyone expects it? Lying is only worth the effort when everyone expects you to say the truth.

"A military operation involves deception. Even though you are competent, appear to be incompetent. Though effective, appear to be ineffective."
-The Art of War

Perhaps we've just been playing with him the whole time, and it's just about curtains for Overlord!
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on April 17, 2012, 12:28:38 AM
Yeah, but that was just some roleplaying fun. In the Banishment scroll cases, I posted an Event and actually visibly increased the number of horrors (for every 1 destroyed, there were 2 afterwards).

 :o

I wonder if that has something to do with removing the Light when we blighted Villriil... So far for the whole advy guild we've set up and new position we've created... (at least for during the invasion!)

Overlord never, ever lies...

No, why should I lie when everyone expects it? Lying is only worth the effort when everyone expects you to say the truth.

Now we don't expect it though... vicious circle.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Daycryn on April 17, 2012, 12:29:40 AM
For me, I once RP'd my character with slightly ... less than appropriate? ... interactions with Overlord. This was mainly because I OOCly did not know who Overlord was other than one of the commanders of the bad guys, and I certainly didn't know he was in the form of a large monstrous evil beast. While I could and should have asked other players OOCly or even ICly what he was like and all, it might be helpful to clarify his basic description on the wiki, or perhaps even in the game itself somehow; that would help avoid the situation where a BT-newbie like me mistakenly assumes him to be just an evil humanoid and reacts that way.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Thunthorn on April 17, 2012, 01:12:06 AM
Up until the last offensive Overlord has very much come out as a bag of hot air, whose successes in the war has been through mind games and magic rather than battlefield prowess. When it has come to actual battle it has been quite possible to beat down the Daimons, which has made his rants quite easy to ridicule. That doesn't mean that being tortured in his dungeon should inspire any suicidal behaviour.

The last offensive with horrors and all has sort of changed that though.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on April 17, 2012, 02:18:30 AM
Yeah, they've been kind of a big hammer. Used with proper strategy, as it seems they currently are, we have no chance. The evidence has shown that only a very strong army behind very strong walls has a chance against one of those forces. However, we can't put very strong forces into every city, and Tom has three of these armies to play with (in the north alone; the south is completely screwed unless Riombara pulls out a miracle defense a la Thalmarkin). If he really wanted to (and it seems that he does), he could just systematically walk into all the cities that we're NOT in and take them, then hit us hard in the places we've collected all our strength. By that point though we'll be low on gold and recruits due to the loss of resources and some realms won't even have capitals left.

This problem is made worse by the daimon ability to travel fast through the blight. They can ALWAYS hit us where we aren't unless we divide our forces to the point where they cannot possibly stand up to the attacking daimon armies. I just wasted quite a few words explaining to Riombara how stupid it is to chase after Darkest Hour of the South when he can simply pop into the blight near Fheuvnem and then pop back out a day later in Ajitmon or Ardmore while our army is still stuck in Sandlakes. Grrr.

As it is, I think our only shot now is to gather what strength we have and wait for them to come to us. If we try a mobile defense we will fail. The Horrors are far too strong to take down in the open field, and they are far too fast for us to have a hope of forcing them to fight on our terms until we are down to so few cities that they have no choice but to assault them. Which is unfortunate I think because it essentially nullifies our ability to make strategic choices. The only choices we have are bad ones. Go there and the daimons will simply go somewhere else (Unger vs. Ossmat). Go here and they'll go there. You see? No good choices. All we can do is make the greatest strongholds we can and then hope that Overlord is foolish enough to attack them with one of his armies at a time instead of collecting them into one place, and hope that once his Horrors are gone that he has nothing left...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: OFaolain on April 17, 2012, 02:44:13 AM
We could have played it smart, and stationed our armies between the two (in Vatrona for instance); that way, we could have reacted quickly no matter which capital got hit.  Unfortunately, we got caught with our (expletives) out in Thalmarkin and Ossmat got sacked for it.  If we use scouts to get a bead on where the daimons are once they leave the blight, our consolidated force stationed in a stronghold like Vatrona should be able to react in time to reach whatever city they're targeting, assuming they're targeting a city.  Would have to periodically cycle to a city but it's the best I can think of off-hand.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on April 17, 2012, 03:58:06 AM
I think we used the wrong tactics, but that's just me.

With the Charger/Archers you should use all the infantry possible. Ties up the chargers and prevents the archers from screaming death onto you. We had way to many archers in that battle. We managed to wound Midnight and I'm guessing with a full infantry regiment, we likely could have killed him and taken out ALL the horrors.

Battle, for those interested: http://battlemaster.org/ShowScribeNote.php?ID=518782&Hash=352fa508dbb69d78

Our army wasn't tailored for that encounter. They came way after we recruited. Too many archers? Perhaps. But the question is more of how to better use our force, as unit types are an IR after all.

Everyone just calls them IVF. I bet even Chenier calls it IVF ;) The Daimons were in Melegra earlier, got beaten and captured, and blighted Grehk once Midnight of the South escaped. The Daimons have been concentrating on the North as the strongest opponent, but the South is getting action as well.

I don't, actually, I just said I didn't mind people calling it that, once. I always call it "Fheuv'n". The rest of the name is a descriptor, it's Russian for "Imperial Host of".

Also, we get pounded regularly. Every time we get back in shape to help Enweil, there's either 4000 CS of undead that appears scattered in our realm and/or a large horde coming to start another TO to blight another region and decimate our mobile forces anew. We didn't find in many campaigns abroad because every time we went to do so, we were threatened at home.

Lots of undead travel from the blight, plus we barely have any advies to prevent spawns in our own regions.

To be fair, I pretty much did. The rampage went on for several days, and I destroyed at least 20,000 bushels of food in that time, probably more. The Daimons hit the rural regions and infiltrators with scrolls of Decay hit the cities. I even had that ritual to make the weather bad. And still... wow.

Cities are now smaller. Food supply seems to have generally increased since the pop and food changes. It was never really an issue to begin with on BT, either.

Up until the last offensive Overlord has very much come out as a bag of hot air, whose successes in the war has been through mind games and magic rather than battlefield prowess. When it has come to actual battle it has been quite possible to beat down the Daimons, which has made his rants quite easy to ridule. That doesn't mean that beaing tortured in his dungeon should inspire any suicidal behaviour.

The last offensive with horrors and all has sort of changed that though.

I gotta say, if many didn't fear Overlord, his continuous defeats surely played a role in it. He kept gloating, and kept getting his forces defeated in random unspectacular battles. He always appeared as more bluff than anything.

That being said, personally, I enjoy this invasion a lot more than the last one and the second half on the one before that one.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: mikm on April 17, 2012, 09:40:33 AM
Let's not forget daimons' telepot ability. They practicly teleported in our capitals. No amount of scouting could of predicted that.
It doesn't matter what their position is on the map. They could be in a cumpletly difrent place next turn.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on April 17, 2012, 09:45:55 AM
This problem is made worse by the daimon ability to travel fast through the blight. They can ALWAYS hit us where we aren't unless we divide our forces to the point where they cannot possibly stand up to the attacking daimon armies. I just wasted quite a few words explaining to Riombara how stupid it is to chase after Darkest Hour of the South when he can simply pop into the blight near Fheuvnem and then pop back out a day later in Ajitmon or Ardmore while our army is still stuck in Sandlakes. Grrr.

Though if you had looked closely, you'd have realized that the horrors have not done this so far. Both in the south and in the north they have travelled the long way. Overlord from Firbalt to Ossmat, his minions from Vur Hagin to Agyr, Grehk to Fheuvenem or whatever, and Reeds to... not yet arrived.

Not saying they can't, but the whining a la "they always disappear into the Blight" hasn't been true even once for the Horrors.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Arrakis on April 17, 2012, 10:24:53 AM
I just wasted quite a few words explaining to Riombara how stupid it is to chase after Darkest Hour of the South when he can simply pop into the blight near Fheuvnem and then pop back out a day later in Ajitmon or Ardmore while our army is still stuck in Sandlakes. Grrr.

No one was ever to go as far as Sandlakes. We've learned that lesson last time we tried to help IVF. Gregorian was prepared to go as far as Enweilios goes but Daimons bypassed it. So you should get your facts straight, or if you don't get any facts IC then you should rethink how you ask for those facts, for Gregorian most certainly won't give any respect or information to those that call him stupid in the first place.

No matter what we do the Daimons /can/ always do whatever they want to do. If we follow them, they move into the blight and teleport in our back yard. If we don't follow them, they kill some southern realm. If they really want to get best for themselves, they can, and there is nothing we can do to prevent them. And as long as things are like that I would prefer giving at least some fun to the players, where they actually go somewhere and do something (even if it is just chasing ghosts), then sitting in the capital waiting to die. That was my reasoning and if you don't like it you can either a) make your character run for general himself or b) be quiet about it and stop insulting those who are making an effort to do something. I don't appreciate being called stupid IC or OOC. IC I get it, and you got the treatment of being ignored Gregorian felt appropriate. OOC I am annoyed, disappointed and slightly upset by it.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on April 17, 2012, 01:28:22 PM
No matter what we do the Daimons /can/ always do whatever they want to do.

Not quite. There are some game-mechanics that have been successfully used against them. One of the reasons that Unger held so well, for example, was that no matter what they kept fighting with considerable forces. The battles lasted several hours, reducing the time pool that the Daimon minion had available for such things as looting or casting magic (which yes, takes time as anyone who has ever used a scroll can confirm). When the battles started to run against me, I didn't even have enough hours left to leave. They had successfully tied me up, so it wasn't so much luck, sooner or later he would've either died in battle or been captured.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on April 17, 2012, 02:05:51 PM
Though if you had looked closely, you'd have realized that the horrors have not done this so far. Both in the south and in the north they have travelled the long way. Overlord from Firbalt to Ossmat, his minions from Vur Hagin to Agyr, Grehk to Fheuvenem or whatever, and Reeds to... not yet arrived.

Not saying they can't, but the whining a la "they always disappear into the Blight" hasn't been true even once for the Horrors.

That's not a good indicator of what they might do in the future, and the daimon commanders have already done this in the past with other unit types. Such as when Midnight of the South did the exact thing I am talking about when he was commanding flesheaters and popped up in Ajitmon while were off chasing him through Enweil. If daimons use a given tactic once, how is it that we can safely assume that they won't simply use it again? I'd say that that would be a pretty foolish assumption to make IC, especially when it's such a devastatingly effective tactic. Let's also not forget that even if the daimons use mundane movement, we still have to know where they're going in advance if we want to get there first to defend it, as under the best of circumstances we are no faster than they are.

I wouldn't care so much about them disappearing into the blight if they still had to move at normal speeds through it. It's the popping up somewhere else halfway across the world a day later that's the problem... It gives them an enormous strategic advantage. Essentially, they can always travel by interior lines and outmaneuver us with ease. I think the daimons have been very restrained about using this power to its full potential, but that doesn't mean they haven't done so on occasion, or that we can afford to assume that they won't do so again.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on April 17, 2012, 02:13:31 PM
No one was ever to go as far as Sandlakes. We've learned that lesson last time we tried to help IVF. Gregorian was prepared to go as far as Enweilios goes but Daimons bypassed it. So you should get your facts straight, or if you don't get any facts IC then you should rethink how you ask for those facts, for Gregorian most certainly won't give any respect or information to those that call him stupid in the first place.

No matter what we do the Daimons /can/ always do whatever they want to do. If we follow them, they move into the blight and teleport in our back yard. If we don't follow them, they kill some southern realm. If they really want to get best for themselves, they can, and there is nothing we can do to prevent them. And as long as things are like that I would prefer giving at least some fun to the players, where they actually go somewhere and do something (even if it is just chasing ghosts), then sitting in the capital waiting to die. That was my reasoning and if you don't like it you can either a) make your character run for general himself or b) be quiet about it and stop insulting those who are making an effort to do something. I don't appreciate being called stupid IC or OOC. IC I get it, and you got the treatment of being ignored Gregorian felt appropriate. OOC I am annoyed, disappointed and slightly upset by it.

Sorry you feel that way, Arrakis. It's in my nature to be outspoken sometimes, but I am not trying to be insulting or offensive. I know you're not stupid; quite the contrary.

IMO you should make these arguments IC though, as they are essentially IC arguments. Or you can continue to just ignore Evander, but that's not really a good way to shut him up... He's likely to just keep harping on the subject until someone acknowledges him one way or the other, and if it's actually annoying you you should probably do something about it, even if it's to tell him to shut up.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on April 17, 2012, 02:20:55 PM
I wouldn't care so much about them disappearing into the blight if they still had to move at normal speeds through it. It's the popping up somewhere else halfway across the world a day later that's the problem... It gives them an enormous strategic advantage.

True, they have some advantages. They also have disadvantages - for example the fact that I only ever had 5 armies.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on April 17, 2012, 02:24:22 PM
True, they have some advantages. They also have disadvantages - for example the fact that I only ever had 5 armies.

Ha, you can't possibly be complaining about that, can you?   :)

When one of those armies (currently, if not always in the past) is more than enough to take down a full-scale fortress or several human armies, I humbly suggest that five is quite enough. Possibly too many, actually, time will tell.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on April 17, 2012, 02:25:18 PM
Also, it turns out I cannot hand a semi-blighted region to another realm. I guess that's intentional?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Marlboro on April 18, 2012, 01:18:25 AM
Not quite. There are some game-mechanics that have been successfully used against them. One of the reasons that Unger held so well, for example, was that no matter what they kept fighting with considerable forces. The battles lasted several hours, reducing the time pool that the Daimon minion had available for such things as looting or casting magic (which yes, takes time as anyone who has ever used a scroll can confirm). When the battles started to run against me, I didn't even have enough hours left to leave. They had successfully tied me up, so it wasn't so much luck, sooner or later he would've either died in battle or been captured.

Meat grinder! Haha my god, it takes that kind of overwhelming despair and enemy strength to create moments of such heroism and triumph as that. Nothing but compliments from me. Playing it safe and winning can be really, tooth-grindingly boring.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on April 18, 2012, 03:33:28 AM
Face your impeding doom! The hellforges await your pitiful souls, heathens!
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Indirik on April 18, 2012, 03:49:26 AM
I hate it when my doom impedes me...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Marlboro on April 18, 2012, 04:06:38 AM
I hate it when my doom impedes me...

Lead, follow, or get out of the way, doom.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Velax on April 18, 2012, 06:27:44 AM
I know, right? You want to take a shower, and doom's used all the hot water. You feel like a nice, cold beer after work, and doom's drunk them all. And who is it that uses all the plates and just leaves them in the sink unwashed? Yeah, that's right. Doom.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on April 18, 2012, 01:28:47 PM
I know, right? You want to take a shower, and doom's used all the hot water. You feel like a nice, cold beer after work, and doom's drunk them all. And who is it that uses all the plates and just leaves them in the sink unwashed? Yeah, that's right. Doom.

Stupid Doom, never thinking of others.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: mikm on April 18, 2012, 10:07:25 PM
This chalenge from Old Gregh seem crazy. Fight Overlord on an open plane?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Marlboro on April 18, 2012, 11:02:43 PM
This chalenge from Old Gregh seem crazy. Fight Overlord on an open plane?

I have HAD IT with all these motha!@#$in' Overlords on this motha!@#$in' plane.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: JPierreD on April 19, 2012, 12:48:32 PM
I have HAD IT with all these motha!@#$in' Overlords on this motha!@#$in' plane.

Ol' Greg must be certainly nuts.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on April 19, 2012, 01:40:28 PM
It's probably crazy. But just as epic! :)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: jaune on April 19, 2012, 01:54:32 PM
Its propably crazy. But just as stupid! :P

Soon, soon i can again say "What did i tell you?!?!"

-Jaune
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on April 19, 2012, 01:56:47 PM
Its propably crazy. But just as stupid! :P

Soon, soon i can again say "What did i tell you?!?!"

-Jaune

Pfff! Glad we don't have such a pussy as King anymore! ;)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: mikm on April 19, 2012, 06:59:25 PM
I just saw an execution mesage for the first time during this invasion. How evil! :'(
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lefanis on April 19, 2012, 07:03:42 PM
Its that traitor Breonna, who sold Arcachon to Arcaea! Melehan is going to cheer for Overlord  :P
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Velax on April 19, 2012, 07:27:16 PM
Don't worry, Arcaea will be holding a memorial service for her.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Telrunya on April 19, 2012, 08:15:14 PM
Overlord is bored. He's going to kill people till he gets attacked :P
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Marlboro on April 19, 2012, 11:58:11 PM
Pfff! Glad we don't have such a pussy as King anymore! ;)

Hooah!

Overlord is bored. He's going to kill people till he gets attacked :P

He won't even have time to get the cookies out of the oven before we're shoving a cold-forged iron boot up his ass.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on April 20, 2012, 12:17:11 AM
He won't even have time to get the cookies out of the oven before we're shoving a cold-forged iron boot up his ass.

You better get a move on. I have another guy in my dungeons who was banned before. If Overlord isn't at least seriously wounded tomorrow morning, that guy will get the axe because he taunted Overlord even while being in his dungeon. Even if Overlord gets a beating, chances are he'll still kill him. Basically: If I can reach the button, he's dead.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on April 20, 2012, 12:28:08 AM
You better get a move on. I have another guy in my dungeons who was banned before. If Overlord isn't at least seriously wounded tomorrow morning, that guy will get the axe because he taunted Overlord even while being in his dungeon. Even if Overlord gets a beating, chances are he'll still kill him. Basically: If I can reach the button, he's dead.

:)

Melhed got a little cocky and decided to order the attack before we were ready... Guess this is the weakness of humanity that Overlord likes to point out.

At least we know who to blame if this goes wrong now! :P
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Telrunya on April 20, 2012, 12:32:09 AM
I was surprised when the attack Orders reached me four hours after reset :P Should have at least done a two-turn move with Delay Arrival!

Well, let's just cheer for a miracle and kick his ass :)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Foundation on April 20, 2012, 12:34:52 AM
Go Overlord, down with humans!

p.s. don't tell my advie I said that.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on April 20, 2012, 12:36:29 AM
I was surprised when the attack Orders reached me four hours after reset :P Should have at least done a two-turn move with Delay Arrival!

Well, let's just cheer for a miracle and kick his ass :)

Not sure if we should've done that though... If we're in the region he can use his magic on us!

But yeah... it should've been properly announced at least a day ahead. And it should've been decided by all the generals to attack. I mean, Thal still has 5K more to throw at him... They're just not in position yet. And I'm sure OG could've conjured up some more too. Oh well, 2nd round reinforcements I guess.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on April 20, 2012, 12:37:08 AM
Go Overlord, down with humans!

p.s. don't tell my advie I said that.

What's your advy's name? ;)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Foundation on April 20, 2012, 12:42:52 AM
He has no formal name, his fellow advies just call him.... razer, dundundun! :P
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on April 20, 2012, 12:45:31 AM
Not sure if we should've done that though... If we're in the region he can use his magic on us!

But yeah... it should've been properly announced at least a day ahead. And it should've been decided by all the generals to attack. I mean, Thal still has 5K more to throw at him... They're just not in position yet. And I'm sure OG could've conjured up some more too. Oh well, 2nd round reinforcements I guess.

I was seriously considering looting the region to damage the roads, to delay travel, so you arrive piecemeal... that would've been evil, and very effective.

But, unfortunately, for this battle Overlord has pretty much decided to use nothing but brute force, because he wants to show humans how weak they are, and leave them no excuses. Using magic or delays or any other trickery would've given them an excuse. So sad. :-(
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Marlboro on April 20, 2012, 01:16:45 AM
Not sure if we should've done that though... If we're in the region he can use his magic on us!

But yeah... it should've been properly announced at least a day ahead. And it should've been decided by all the generals to attack. I mean, Thal still has 5K more to throw at him... They're just not in position yet. And I'm sure OG could've conjured up some more too. Oh well, 2nd round reinforcements I guess.

I logged on yesterday at an awards ceremony at work and accidentally wound up in Wailing Wood instead of Winfael. LOL I almost cried 'cause I thought I'd miss it, I can only imagine everyone else who's like one region away now. We're never gonna get everyone we could into that region without another couple days of waiting, though, and collective equipment damage will make us lose more CS than we'd gain via fresh units.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on April 20, 2012, 02:14:55 AM
Kill all humans!
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Marlboro on April 20, 2012, 02:38:43 AM
Kill all humans!

Except Fry.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on April 20, 2012, 02:44:34 AM
Except Fry.

Fry all humans!
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lefanis on April 20, 2012, 05:31:24 AM
I guess this is it... Stupid Melhed  >:(
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Marlboro on April 20, 2012, 06:06:44 AM
I guess this is it... Stupid Melhed  >:(

More like AWESOME Melhed! Watch me edit this in fifteen minutes though!

Edit: Overlord has been killed by Masters of Archer (36).
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lefanis on April 20, 2012, 06:24:58 AM
Overlord has been killed by Gilbert's Gentlemen (23).

 ;D

Overlord has been killed by Masters of Archer (36).

Victory to humans! And fiery portals all around!
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Marlboro on April 20, 2012, 06:27:28 AM
You only die twice!
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Iltaran on April 20, 2012, 06:51:01 AM
This was totally what Solari, Ivagil and I had planning.

*coughs*
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Norrel on April 20, 2012, 06:54:30 AM
Overlord has been killed by Gilbert's Gentlemen (23).

 ;D

Overlord has been killed by Masters of Archer (36).

Victory to humans! And fiery portals all around!

pro skills right here
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Marlboro on April 20, 2012, 07:20:56 AM
What was the bounty? Next round's on Gilbert!
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Norrel on April 20, 2012, 07:31:25 AM
What was the bounty? Next round's on Gilbert!

I think around 500 gold
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lefanis on April 20, 2012, 07:44:01 AM
I think around 500 gold

Heh, he is famous and rich.

Poor Pavel, he killed the second Overlord, but what did he get?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: mikm on April 20, 2012, 09:35:31 AM
Didn't Tom say Overlord is unkillable? So all daimon leaders are hero characters.
The battle message says he was killed by 2 different units. So who gets the bounty?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: vonGenf on April 20, 2012, 11:31:36 AM
Didn't Tom say Overlord is unkillable? So all daimon leaders are hero characters.
The battle message says he was killed by 2 different units. So who gets the bounty?

He was killed. Does that mean he's dead?

Was he even alive in the first place?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: mikm on April 20, 2012, 11:45:27 AM
He was killed. Does that mean he's dead?

Was he even alive in the first place?
Tom mentioned somewhere that Overlord is immortal- so I though that meant not killable, under any circumstances.

Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Solari on April 20, 2012, 11:47:31 AM
*bows*
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: JPierreD on April 20, 2012, 12:18:28 PM
Round 4:
Overlord has been killed by Gilbert's Gentlemen (23).
Gilbert collects the bounty.

Round 6:
Overlord has been killed by Masters of Archer (36).

I guess that answers who got the bounty. As for Overlord, he has already been captured by Riombara and when we checked our dungeons we had a Son (or one of the commanders, don't remember). Basically who got killed was 10th Son, it seems.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lefanis on April 20, 2012, 12:53:40 PM

I guess that answers who got the bounty. As for Overlord, he has already been captured by Riombara and when we checked our dungeons we had a Son (or one of the commanders, don't remember). Basically who got killed was 10th Son, it seems.

Huh- so 10th son was in your prison, and got swapped with overlord, so overlord is now in your prison?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Telrunya on April 20, 2012, 01:00:07 PM
No, this happened a while back. Riombara captured Overlord in battle, but instead of Overlord appearing in our Dungeons it was one of his Sons. He basically swapped places to avoid imprisonment. He has done the same in Pomatim. Basically, the killing blow was dealt to the 10th Son, as Overlord swapped places with him (Or at least, changed the 10th's Son location with his). Technically, the Human Realms did not kill Overlord in Pomatim, they killed the 10th Son. Of course, for now, this was the last of his Sons, at least on Beluaterra. His safety measure is gone at least temporarily.

I assume the Overlord will reappear soon enough, alive and kicking, ready to continue his conquest. Then the Human Rulers will gloat about killing him, and the Overlord will comment how insignificant that is. :)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on April 20, 2012, 01:20:08 PM
Overlord appears to be spiritual creature or possessive force, for lack of any better way to put it. He possesses the 'mortal' form of one of his Sons, which then becomes the Overlord. When the mortal shell is killed, he simply moves on to the next host. I wonder if he can be killed for real now that he seemingly has no more Sons left... I may be forced to eat my words if that turns out to be the case.

Not that I would mind :)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on April 20, 2012, 01:22:11 PM
Maybe the northern cold prevents his body-switching. ;)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Velax on April 20, 2012, 01:43:17 PM
Overlord appears to be spiritual creature or possessive force, for lack of any better way to put it. He possesses the 'mortal' form of one of his Sons, which then becomes the Overlord.

"ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL."
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: JPierreD on April 20, 2012, 02:27:27 PM
"ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL."

Damn, I was /just/ about to make that joke. :P
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Indirik on April 20, 2012, 03:16:08 PM
So, when does he start possessing player characters? O_o
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Velax on April 20, 2012, 03:29:30 PM
I assumed he'd always had control of Chénier.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: mikm on April 20, 2012, 04:02:18 PM
Round 4:
Overlord has been killed by Gilbert's Gentlemen (23).
Gilbert collects the bounty.

Round 6:
Overlord has been killed by Masters of Archer (36).

I guess that answers who got the bounty. As for Overlord, he has already been captured by Riombara and when we checked our dungeons we had a Son (or one of the commanders, don't remember). Basically who got killed was 10th Son, it seems.

How demoralising. I don't remember seeing anymore sons. 10th is the last?


Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on April 20, 2012, 04:50:17 PM
Overlord appears to be spiritual creature or possessive force, for lack of any better way to put it. He possesses the 'mortal' form of one of his Sons,

existing roleplays beg to differ. Overlord is 6m towering daimonic creature. His sons appear human to casual inspection.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Thunthorn on April 20, 2012, 04:53:04 PM
I envisioned some sort of Hulk-like transformation when he takes over...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on April 20, 2012, 04:55:25 PM
How demoralising. I don't remember seeing anymore sons. 10th is the last?

There was an 11th and a 12th, but they were killed. 10th just survived longer than his younger brothers.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Iltaran on April 20, 2012, 05:05:14 PM
So far what has happened has seemed like almost the opposite of Overlord "possessing" his sons. Instead they appear to switch places at the last moment.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Solari on April 20, 2012, 11:02:35 PM
I assumed he'd always had control of Chénier.

Post of the day, right here.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Marlboro on April 21, 2012, 12:12:34 AM
I assumed he'd always had control of Chénier.

Needs to be quoted twice.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on April 21, 2012, 05:31:09 AM
I assumed he'd always had control of Chénier.

Maybe I've been possessing Overlord all this time?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Velax on April 21, 2012, 05:44:54 AM
Maybe I've been possessing Overlord all this time?

Maybe...has Overlord been complaining constantly and saying how evil Riombara is?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on April 21, 2012, 06:37:59 AM
existing roleplays beg to differ. Overlord is 6m towering daimonic creature. His sons appear human to casual inspection.

Oh, I didn't mean in appearance. I know that face to face, Overlord in his tangible, mortal (in the sense that it can be 'killed') vessel is big and scary. I meant in nature. You kill his body, he takes another, and the new body becomes the 6m towering daimonic creature we know and love.

Honestly if it's not something like that, then, uh... What? Does he physically exchange places with one of his Sons after being wounded badly enough? Like some kind of teleportation hot swap, such as a street magician would perform? I read 'killed' as, well, KILLED. The mortal body that he occupied in Pomatim and the other places he has been 'killed' got stabbed, hacked up, and quite possibly burnt to ashes (if we had anything to say about it). It's just that Overlord, being something more than mortal, simply moved on to another suitable vessel and took his soulforged bling with him (which doesn't seem so far fetched - it's made of souls after all). That seems cooler than a 'now you see him, now you don't' sort of explanation, anyway.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Marlboro on April 21, 2012, 06:49:23 AM
The way the Horrors disappeared too made me think they were just some bad dream. I'd considered that maybe the whole Daimon army we'd been facing might've just been madmen and it's all some illusion, but there wasn't anything in the RP event about strange bodies being mixed in with all of ours.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Zakilevo on April 21, 2012, 09:07:21 AM
Oh, I didn't mean in appearance. I know that face to face, Overlord in his tangible, mortal (in the sense that it can be 'killed') vessel is big and scary. I meant in nature. You kill his body, he takes another, and the new body becomes the 6m towering daimonic creature we know and love.

Honestly if it's not something like that, then, uh... What? Does he physically exchange places with one of his Sons after being wounded badly enough? Like some kind of teleportation hot swap, such as a street magician would perform? I read 'killed' as, well, KILLED. The mortal body that he occupied in Pomatim and the other places he has been 'killed' got stabbed, hacked up, and quite possibly burnt to ashes (if we had anything to say about it). It's just that Overlord, being something more than mortal, simply moved on to another suitable vessel and took his soulforged bling with him (which doesn't seem so far fetched - it's made of souls after all). That seems cooler than a 'now you see him, now you don't' sort of explanation, anyway.

This sounds too much like Dragon Age. Archdemon and Darkspawns... Guess now we need grey wardens to do the job.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Iltaran on April 21, 2012, 11:12:46 AM
Maybe...has Overlord been complaining constantly and saying how evil Riombara is?

Not that I remember. Overlord does frequently declare that everything is going the way he planned it though.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Solari on April 21, 2012, 02:04:59 PM
This sounds too much like Dragon Age. Archdemon and Darkspawns... Guess now we need grey wardens to do the job.

And Thalmarkin's realm color is conveniently grey.  8)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: mikm on April 21, 2012, 08:38:16 PM
Another execution! Finally things are starting to get serios.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Telrunya on April 23, 2012, 08:11:08 PM
Quote
Messages
Send a message to:

Peers

to - all / some fellow Rulers
to - all human rulers

Hierarchy

to - Your liege, Overlord
to - all / some nobles of Grehk
to - Your Duke, Sir Sassan d'Serrai, Duke of Grehk
to - all / some nobles of the Duchy of Grehk
to - all / some dukes of your realm

All Hail Overlord! In case you missed the memo :P
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on April 24, 2012, 12:04:38 AM
All Hail Overlord! In case you missed the memo :P

Uh, how did that happen?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: JPierreD on April 24, 2012, 12:19:38 AM
Uh, how did that happen?

Sassan, you traitor!
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on April 24, 2012, 02:02:32 AM
Uh, how did that happen?

We had this in Fheuv'n for... forever.

I'm assuming it has to do with takeovers. The new estates really don't update well at all the allegiance changes.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Telrunya on April 24, 2012, 06:33:33 AM
Oh yeah, that might be the case, as I still get to my message 'My Duke' even though I'm a Ruler and Grehk is currently blighted. I'll make a bug report out of it later (when I have time) if it isn't on there yet.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on April 24, 2012, 08:07:50 AM
Yes, please. There is nothing special about these TOs, so any bug there would also affect other TOs between human realms.

Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on April 24, 2012, 01:25:16 PM
Yes, please. There is nothing special about these TOs, so any bug there would also affect other TOs between human realms.

I did.

http://bugs.battlemaster.org/view.php?id=6712

And while the whole duchy creation and duke assigning was probably caused by the manual DB fix, the allegiance thingny wasn't, as Overlord was showing as my liege since the takeover of Iato.

Just as some of our knights were said to be knights of Melhed and such.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: mikm on April 26, 2012, 06:49:59 PM
In the new takeover system, each battle delays the enemy takeover?
The takeover of Ossmat was at like 88% during the first battle I saw. And now it droped to like 80%, despite the daimons wining every single battle.

Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on April 26, 2012, 07:14:29 PM
In the new takeover system, each battle delays the enemy takeover?

Not directly, but if it stops the enemy from continuing with their TO activities, then their progress will slowly go backwards. You can't just sit there, do nothing, and expect that the region will convert.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tan dSerrai on April 27, 2012, 09:52:04 AM
Considering that my char on Beluaterra is riombaran consider this irony: Sassan /seriously/ rues the fact that IVF was dissolved...or, to be more precise, that its only duchy did switch to Enweil 2 days too early.

This allowed the daimons to take IVF's capital 3-4 halfdays faster than anticipated, preventing the (by then already marching) riombaran army to reinforce Enweilios in time. Thus the daimons did reach Enweilios this sunrise /right/ before Riombara....we could have had 20k CS in Enweilios a day later.

Dang, dang, dang, dang.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on April 27, 2012, 10:57:42 AM
Human self-destruction through incompetence, lack of communication and old hatreds.

Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Telrunya on April 27, 2012, 11:03:11 AM
One thing is sure: If Aliens ever show up on Earth and begin attacking us, Humanity is screwed. Battlemaster taught me that much. :)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tan dSerrai on April 27, 2012, 11:50:46 AM
Well, incompetence: Our old general fell sick (IC workload), I took over, calculated all traveltimes, backtracked possible movements, calculated our own traveltimes, built in a reserve of 1 day, organized the army (with aid from marshals and military council), communicated with Enweil (got contacts to general and marshals), including Enweils chancellor, all were willing to work together, the army was organized within one halfday (building upon an excellent structure left behind by the old general), information was flowing very well (except for  ONE halfday wre scoutings of the daimons /movements/ were missing), Riombara marched 22k mobile forces towards Enweil...

all to naught due to one duke of one different realm not being included in the information loop between two other realms and him thus not knowing about our timetable, switching realms (I assume without consulting his peers), not being aware that the resulting speed up of the TO of Feuvenehm would have such drastic results. One small detail.

Thus I beg to differ - its not incompetence, its more of a 'If we are to be able to successfully fight the daimons ALL of 7 different pieces need to work. Fail in one and the whole structure unravels'. Considering the number of people involved, infomation needing to be gathered early in one halfturn, passed on to the general, passed on to the other general, passed on to the army...all within one halfday /where critical/ (as in the situation where we needed to decide wether the daimons were marching against Enweilios or Rines and thus position our army accordingly)....information FLOW (even if all work diligently) is complex, especially considering that it needs to go both directions...then combine THAT with the need for near perfection....

I think the south did act quite well and thorough...for want of one detail it just was not enough.

Hell, well keep trying  :)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: mikm on April 27, 2012, 09:10:15 PM
Geting one beating after another.  How can this be?  This is just one group of invaders not three like before and we are all allied.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Yorkie on April 28, 2012, 07:16:04 AM
At this point it just feels like we're getting command vehicle sniped.

We've won when we're fighting standing armies in the fields, but we got maneuvered to a point where we couldn't all protect our capital cities. So now each capital city is getting taken out. We were doing relatively fine until about the last week or so.

Feels more like gamey tactics than anything.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on April 28, 2012, 10:29:22 AM
Feels more like gamey tactics than anything.

What feels "gamey" about it?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Yorkie on April 28, 2012, 12:40:04 PM
Ideally, recruits should/would be recruited from the fiefdoms themselves. With the calling of the banners, each region would be bringing forward units, they wouldn't all be syphoned through a central location like the capital unless ordered to.

Right now a majority of the capitals are either under siege or under constant attack, leading to it being nearly impossible to recruit up a unit and organize an army.

In reality, if there were any men left that hadn't been recruited previous, they'd be recruited in the countryside. [ignoring the unrealistic speed in training time and the massive amounts of dudes our little fiefdoms seem to mass produce :p]

Because of game mechanics, we really can't fight back with anywhere near the strength we could muster "normally" without sneaking in and out of the capital with units on evade and hoping that we succeed. A kind of funny tactic considering that the city we're supposed to be recruiting from is either under siege or actively being ransacked. [I have a mental image of some guy running into a burning bar and saying "Oie! You dudes! Follow me! You're now archers!" "YARRR!" "Jolly good! You in the front! You're the Captain! On to victory!"]

Hence my comment about it being like command vehicle sniping. In any RTS, its possible to win by killing off the worker units or command vehicles that bring the ability to create or maintain infastructure to bring in the combat units to instantly win the game. Its gamey and annoying but a viable tactic if you don't mind reaching outside the spectrum of realism within the game.

And yes, I realize that there's magic and the like in BM and its not considered "realistic" in any shape or form. But the terminology seemed closest to appropriate.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Solari on April 28, 2012, 12:51:25 PM
At this point it just feels like we're getting command vehicle sniped.

We've won when we're fighting standing armies in the fields, but we got maneuvered to a point where we couldn't all protect our capital cities. So now each capital city is getting taken out. We were doing relatively fine until about the last week or so.

Unger survived.  Agyr will survive.  Ossmat probably could have survived, assuming OG actually listened and starting dropping their units as militia after every battle and then recruiting in a frenzy.  It takes a lot of gold and soldiers to stop the takeovers, but a successful strategy has been demonstrated (and shared).
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Iltaran on April 28, 2012, 03:11:16 PM
Ossmat's fall was mostly my fault. By the time the militia drops got started it was too late.

:'(
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Telrunya on April 28, 2012, 03:15:04 PM
We just need to add Enweilieos to the Survived list :)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on April 28, 2012, 03:19:43 PM
Ossmat's fall was mostly my fault. By the time the militia drops got started it was too late.

:'(

Heh, dunno... I only learned from you that it was possible to begin with.

And to be honest, I was quite disappointed in the forces Sint brought... You'd think that with all the time having passed since their last battle (siege of firbalt), they'd have at least 20k ready to march...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on April 28, 2012, 04:38:40 PM
Heh, dunno... I only learned from you that it was possible to begin with.

And to be honest, I was quite disappointed in the forces Sint brought... You'd think that with all the time having passed since their last battle (siege of firbalt), they'd have at least 20k ready to march...

That's a hell of a lot more than I would expect them to be able to bring to the table even if they hadn't just lost a city.

Fronen is theoretically coming, but our army is pretty pathetic and has been for quite a while.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Solari on April 28, 2012, 06:50:41 PM
Agyr is saved.  8)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lefanis on April 28, 2012, 07:57:39 PM
Agyr is saved.  8)

Damn prison... Is Midnight slain?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Telrunya on April 28, 2012, 08:29:31 PM
Quote
Huge Battle Fought   (2 hours, 8 minutes ago)
Rumours spread and tales are sung about a huge battle in Agyr:
Melhed, Thalmarkin vs. Netherworld
Estimated strengths: 1270 men vs. 260 men
The Wolf Legion (Melhed), sponsored by Marc de Coivos, Duke of Fronepu, Marquis of Fronepu, were led into battle by Marshal Black Dragon Master.
The Legion of the Wolf (Thalmarkin), sponsored by Fingolfin Noldorin, King of Thalmarkin, were led into battle by Marshal Yusklin Melphrydd.
Pavel Jeffrey, Count of Ieara is spotted wielding the Ucdauh's Hammer of Doom.
Pavel Jeffrey, Count of Ieara is spotted reading from the Ucdauh's Compendium.
Denver Jeffrey, Count of Lloringel is spotted wielding the Strong Shield of Protection.
Denver Jeffrey, Count of Lloringel is spotted wearing the Dragon-Scale Armour of Protection.
Aurelius Madigan (Noble) is spotted reading from the White Compendium of Haste.
Eridin of Burgundy (Knight of Agyr, Melhed) was captured by Midnight of the East 's unit.
Denver Jeffrey, Count of Lloringel was captured by Midnight of the East 's unit.

Attacker Victory!
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on April 28, 2012, 08:38:09 PM
That's a hell of a lot more than I would expect them to be able to bring to the table even if they hadn't just lost a city.

Fronen is theoretically coming, but our army is pretty pathetic and has been for quite a while.

It's not like they put any effort into saving Firbalt... they just retreated after two battles. They should've had plenty of gold and recruits left. Probably have had overflowing RCs for the last two weeks. That's not how BT will be saved. It'll be saved by recruiting every damn man you can get your hands on and marching them out to fight the daimons. Repeat that process until your peasants reject your drafts or your pockets are empty, and then maybe we'll win.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: mikm on April 28, 2012, 10:29:23 PM
It's not like they put any effort into saving Firbalt... they just retreated after two battles. They should've had plenty of gold and recruits left. Probably have had overflowing RCs for the last two weeks. That's not how BT will be saved. It'll be saved by recruiting every damn man you can get your hands on and marching them out to fight the daimons. Repeat that process until your peasants reject your drafts or your pockets are empty, and then maybe we'll win.
Basicly we were swating rouge monsters and undead before orders weregiven, so were not all present in Keffa to recruit when the time came to move.
The we were badly organised. Considrable troops remained in Kell during the first battle.  Old Gregh troops also failed to move. If we had moved with everything back then, who knows, we migh have won.

If we take everything we have and just shove at the daimons aren't we leaving our rurals vounrable to monsters and undead?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Indirik on April 28, 2012, 10:35:37 PM
Sint has been totally, completely disorganised for weeks. There is essentially no leadership running things. Our marshal is good once the objective is set. But the higher ups aren't getting it done.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Solari on April 29, 2012, 01:39:15 AM
Sint has been totally, completely disorganised for weeks. There is essentially no leadership running things. Our marshal is good once the objective is set. But the higher ups aren't getting it done.

Sounds like a totally legitimate excuse for a righteous rebellion. Also something to keep in mind: it's finals week/graduation at virtually every American university.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Thunthorn on April 29, 2012, 08:20:55 AM
It should be pointed out hat the success in Agyr was very much possible both to General Enzo's milita dropping strategy, but lso that the nasty charging Daimons had been soften up in Vur Hagin previously. Once they were finally grinded down, the ranged Daimons didn't prove to fearsome.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on April 29, 2012, 10:51:39 AM
That, and the fact that you sacrificed at least 15k troops, after already having lost 10k troops in Pomatim. That you still have troops at all is impressive.

Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Marlboro on April 29, 2012, 11:01:39 AM
That, and the fact that you sacrificed at least 15k troops, after already having lost 10k troops in Pomatim. That you still have troops at all is impressive.

Even I'm surprised I have troops left. Down to four wounded soldiers after three battles. Then...

Unit Status Report   (16 hours, 37 minutes ago)
Your healers save 0 soldiers from the brink of death, who remain wounded. They helped a total of 3 wounded ones to recover. After resting, 1 of your wounded men recovered by themselves. A total of 4 men are once again ready for battle.

Midnight of the East has been wounded by Dead Reckoning (15).

Battle Results   (16 hours, 41 minutes ago)
None of your men were killed but 4 were wounded in this battle.

Unit Status Report   (4 hours, 49 minutes ago)
Your healers save 0 soldiers from the brink of death, who remain wounded. They helped a total of 4 wounded ones to recover. After resting, 0 of your wounded men recovered by themselves. A total of 4 men are once again ready for battle.

Battle Results   (4 hours, 53 minutes ago)
None of your men were killed but 4 were wounded in this battle.

Currently:
Dead Reckoning
Captain Vilmar (+3)
Type:   Special Forces
Strength:   0 (+4 wounded)

Let's hope the road to Unger doesn't prove deadlier than the Horrors...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Bael on April 29, 2012, 01:44:45 PM
In Prison   (7 hours, 34 minutes ago)
You are still in prison and will be held captive for 6 more days unless you escape or pay ransom. The new ransom has been set to 166 gold.

Dungeon Event   (3 hours, 19 minutes ago)
You hear the guards entering a cell nearby, and dragging its inhabitant away. His screams are heard for the next hours from where you know the torture chamber to be.

Dungeon Event   (3 hours, 19 minutes ago)
You hear the guards entering a cell nearby, and dragging its inhabitant away. His screams are heard for the next hours from where you know the torture chamber to be.

Dungeon Event   (3 hours, 19 minutes ago)
You hear the guards entering a cell nearby, and dragging its inhabitant away. His screams are heard for the next hours from where you know the torture chamber to be.

Dungeon Event   (3 hours, 19 minutes ago)
You hear the guards entering a cell nearby, and dragging its inhabitant away. His screams are heard for the next hours from where you know the torture chamber to be.

Dungeon Event   (3 hours, 18 minutes ago)
You hear the guards entering a cell nearby, and dragging its inhabitant away. His screams are heard for the next hours from where you know the torture chamber to be.

Dungeon Event   (3 hours, 18 minutes ago)
You hear the guards entering a cell nearby, and dragging its inhabitant away. His screams are heard for the next hours from where you know the torture chamber to be.

Dungeon Event   (3 hours, 18 minutes ago)
You hear the guards entering a cell nearby, and from the few words you can make out it appears as if a fellow prisoner is being set free.


That will certainly leave a mark.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Marlboro on April 30, 2012, 06:27:04 AM
Dead Reckoning
Captain Vilmar (+3)
Type:   Special Forces
Strength:   4 men

In case anyone was waiting with bated breath. My healer kicks ass.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: OFaolain on April 30, 2012, 09:28:33 AM
Dead Reckoning
Captain Vilmar (+3)
Type:   Special Forces
Strength:   4 men

In case anyone was waiting with bated breath. My healer kicks ass.

Nice.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on April 30, 2012, 08:17:45 PM
Dead Reckoning
Captain Vilmar (+3)
Type:   Special Forces
Strength:   4 men

In case anyone was waiting with bated breath. My healer kicks ass.

That's not a healer. It's a witch.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on April 30, 2012, 08:21:23 PM
That's not a healer. It's a witch.

Specifically trained for this purpose by our Grand Wizard! :)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Velax on April 30, 2012, 08:41:42 PM
What happened to the rest of the unit?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Marlboro on April 30, 2012, 08:46:11 PM
What happened to the rest of the unit?

Benny Marlboro and her love of the wedge formation.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Madigan on May 01, 2012, 04:29:08 AM
Specifically trained for this purpose by our Grand Wizard! :)

Thats right, Aurelius is currently training swaths of beautiful witches for use against the Overlord. Tremble in fear, forces of darkness  ;D !

I feel like every Grand Wizard comment is more of less a reminder of how ineffective the position and organization has been. Really thought we could get a scroll of banishing in time for Unger. Instead, all I got was this lousy White Compendium of Haste. Sorry I failed the North  :'(
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Marlboro on May 01, 2012, 04:38:09 AM
I feel like every Grand Wizard comment is more of less a reminder of how ineffective the position and organization has been. Really thought we could get a scroll of banishing in time for Unger. Instead, all I got was this lousy White Compendium of Haste. Sorry I failed the North  :'(

I think those scrolls work opposite on Horrors, so your incompetence has saved us all!
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Madigan on May 01, 2012, 04:44:21 AM
I think those scrolls work opposite on Horrors, so your incompetence has saved us all!
Wait?
Umm
I mean...

Muwahaha! Of course, of course, all part of my brilliant plan! Forget Darius, Dayne should write a song about the real Savior of the North.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on May 01, 2012, 09:25:38 PM
So with Midnight of the East retreating from Agyr with 20 daimons, disturbing our refit train, we now have Darkest Hour of the West moving into Unger.
I don't think we've ever been a worse state to be attacked, let's see how it goes. :)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Charles on May 01, 2012, 09:39:24 PM
Well, I guess Melhed will attempt to move to help you.  This should be fun!
I assume there is a limit to Overlord's ability to recruit Daimons. Right?  Is he feeling restricted at all?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on May 01, 2012, 09:53:04 PM
To my knowledge, he hasn't recruited any extra Horrors since they first appeared. Though now he seems to be maneuvering strangely... it looks like the Midnight is heading to the blight, which I assume would be to refit, and the Darkest Hour is maneuvering to stop us from intercepting him in Lastfell by attacking (or misdirecting to) Unger.

Either way, whether it's a real attack or not, it'll work since we can't risk leaving our capital undefended. It could of course also be that the Midnight will just join the Darkest Hour as soon as he can in stead of refitting (assuming that the Horrors can't refit... which is a leap of faith of course :) ).
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Solari on May 01, 2012, 11:57:09 PM
So with Midnight of the East retreating from Agyr with 20 daimons, disturbing our refit train, we now have Darkest Hour of the West moving into Unger.
I don't think we've ever been a worse state to be attacked, let's see how it goes. :)

Yup, this is gonna blow.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Marlboro on May 02, 2012, 12:02:55 AM
Did OG manage to kill any Daimons? I only ask because all three units are about even in strength, which indicates that DHotW can either shuffle around his troops from unit to unit, he can recruit from a blighted enemy capital, or they just didn't encounter much resistance.

Edit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JsevtqSChG0
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Velax on May 02, 2012, 04:17:12 AM
Did OG manage to kill any Daimons? I only ask because all three units are about even in strength, which indicates that DHotW can either shuffle around his troops from unit to unit, he can recruit from a blighted enemy capital, or they just didn't encounter much resistance.

Or that roughly equal damage was done to each unit.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Charles on May 02, 2012, 05:09:35 AM
The two blocking units may have been larger to begin with.  One would expect that OG managed to kill some.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Marlboro on May 02, 2012, 05:37:16 AM
The two blocking units may have been larger to begin with.  One would expect that OG managed to kill some.

Yes, one would. ~40 by my estimates, though I posited other possibilities in the hopes that they'd be confirmed or denied, hopefully by someone from OG. 40 is not a lot, especially since the siege went on for some time. If it's one of the other two options then that would shed some light on how the Horrors refit.

My character has been in combat with them a great deal, to the point where honestly I (the player) know more about fighting Daimons than fighting other humans. However, there's still a lot to learn, as I'm sure is the case for most everyone else.

Edit: vvv Thanks for the assist!!!
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Iltaran on May 02, 2012, 07:36:56 AM
Don't have the battlereports on hand, but we killed about 300 by my estimate. There were ~600 when they hit Ossmat and ~300 when they hit Unger.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Turner on May 02, 2012, 07:59:45 AM
That sounds about right. We did manage to kill off some of their forces, once we got into Ossmat most of us dumped our units as militia and recruited fresh for every turn change until we started running low on gold :P
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Marlboro on May 02, 2012, 08:08:26 AM
Still unsure how you guys thinned the rear unit almost as much as you did the front two, which tells me they prolly can shuffle around their dudes from unit to unit.

Unless you have a ton of snipers. But yeah, that was exactly the answer I was looking for. Thanks. :D
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Iltaran on May 02, 2012, 11:46:18 AM
Actually, I'm looking over the Battlereports now, and it turns out the front two units were a lot stronger than the rear one when they attacked Ossmat.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: mikm on May 02, 2012, 06:32:42 PM
Thalmarkin managed to gather over 2000 soldiers in one place. Impresive!
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Solari on May 02, 2012, 06:41:44 PM
Thalmarkin managed to gather over 2000 soldiers in one place. Impresive!

If only you could have seen the battle reports from when Unger was under siege Pomatim.  ~3,000 soldiers for Thal, > 4,000 total.  It was beautiful.  Reminded me of days long gone on EI (eat it, young'uns—It's not EC!).  :'(
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on May 02, 2012, 06:49:29 PM
Quote
Netherworld            140 men   140 men   32450 CS

Darkest Hour of the West and Midnight of the East together. :)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: fodder on May 04, 2012, 03:12:00 PM
so.. eh.. whatever happened to that daimon religion? seems to have gone *poof* or is that old news?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on May 04, 2012, 03:18:28 PM
The sons were the priests. The sons are dead. So that's the end of the religion I suppose, no priests no religion.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Charles on May 04, 2012, 05:58:37 PM
The daimons seem a bit too quiet.
Last time they went quiet, they came back with much tougher units if I recall things correctly.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on May 04, 2012, 06:01:33 PM
I kind of expect Overlord to come marching out of the blight with a giant army for the grand finale.

First time he'd be - supposedly - mortal. :)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on May 04, 2012, 11:35:23 PM
According to the character list, there's only 1 character in Netherworld right now, which is the dead 9th Son.

Seems like Overlord is running out of sons...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Marlboro on May 05, 2012, 12:18:34 AM
Seems like Overlord is running out of sons...

Overlady must've heard that song and died of shame.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Madigan on May 05, 2012, 05:34:33 PM
Overlady must've heard that song and died of shame.

Dayne the Bastard Bard singlehandedly saves the day by stopping more sons. The lute is mightier than the sword!
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: fodder on May 08, 2012, 01:17:47 PM
...is that why he "disappeared" for a bit? to make more sons?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Foundation on May 08, 2012, 05:52:36 PM
So... did humans lose yet? :P

You can see my high confidence in my fellow chars on BT.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Telrunya on May 08, 2012, 06:03:24 PM
We were doing absolutely fine until someone told Overlord Humans are capable of changing their Capital ;) ;D
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: mikm on May 08, 2012, 07:17:11 PM
Just great! The south only has two cities left. :o
Now the only question is who converts to who.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on May 08, 2012, 07:18:54 PM
No-one from Riombara is going to convert to Enweil.

I mean... why would anyone do that? Except for the Chenier-type fanatics who hate Riombara more than they hate the daimons.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Foundation on May 08, 2012, 08:12:36 PM
We were doing absolutely fine until someone told Overlord Humans are capable of changing their Capital ;) ;D

Wasn't me, really! :P

Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Marlboro on May 08, 2012, 08:47:08 PM
Aw c'mon guys, Overlord's just learning the game too. We should take it easy on him.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on May 08, 2012, 10:19:55 PM
We were doing absolutely fine until someone told Overlord Humans are capable of changing their Capital ;) ;D

I thought that was weird, personally. It feels like Overlord just admitted he was meta-gaming. I liked it better when I could operate under the assumption that he was going after capitals as the most visible symbols of a realm's power in order to crush our spirits.

That said, I contend that we're still doing fine. I guess we can't count on them focusing in on exclusively on capitals anymore, but we've effectively destroyed 4 out of 5 armies of Horrors, and I'm reasonably confident that Riombara can now defeat Midnight of the South. Unless Overlord pulls out more armies of Horrors or some other nasty trick, it looks like we've managed to ride out the worst of the storm (though not without losses).
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Solari on May 08, 2012, 10:21:59 PM
I thought that was weird, personally. It feels like Overlord just admitted he was meta-gaming. I liked it better when I could operate under the assumption that he was going after capitals as the most visible symbols of a realm's power in order to crush our spirits.

I think it was more of a convenient excuse to sack another city and try to pin the blame on a particular ruler.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on May 08, 2012, 11:02:39 PM
We were doing absolutely fine until someone told Overlord Humans are capable of changing their Capital ;) ;D

Yeah, that was the single most damaging sentence spoken during this invasion. I was wondering why nobody had yet caught on to the fact that Overlord and the Horrors only ever attacked capitals and afterwards completely ignored those realms.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on May 08, 2012, 11:04:43 PM
I thought that was weird, personally. It feels like Overlord just admitted he was meta-gaming. I liked it better when I could operate under the assumption that he was going after capitals as the most visible symbols of a realm's power in order to crush our spirits.

Nothing meta-gamy about it. Overlord operated under the assumption that the capitals were not just symbolic, but actual foci of a realm, their hearts and brains, and so taking them out would destroy a realm. Maybe not make it vanish immediately, just like a body whose heart you just stabbed takes a while to rot away, but definitely finish them off for good.

Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on May 08, 2012, 11:11:12 PM
Yeah, that was the single most damaging sentence spoken during this invasion. I was wondering why nobody had yet caught on to the fact that Overlord and the Horrors only ever attacked capitals and afterwards completely ignored those realms.

*Raises eyebrow*

The extent of the damage kind of depends on what he can do with this wisdom, doesn't it? The daimon forces have been ground down quite a bit. In the North they're not in a position to do much. In the South I'm reasonably confident that Riombara is strong enough to hold off Midnight of the South at this point. Unless Overlord is about to whip out a whole new batch of fresh forces, I think we've already survived the worst he can throw at us.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Norrel on May 08, 2012, 11:14:13 PM
I think we've already survived the worst he can throw at us.

Famous last words.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on May 08, 2012, 11:20:56 PM
According to what Overlord has said, the Horrors are indeed his elite force and they have been beaten (though not destroyed) in the North. It depends on whether he can recruit much more of them. He has already recruited more but not very much so we're going to have to wait and see.
It also depends on what happens when/if we kill a midnight... do they come back with a fresh horde? And when and with what force will Overlord reappear?

I'm really not so sure that we've won but... I am kinda glad this takes the immediate target off of Unger a little. :P
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on May 08, 2012, 11:30:57 PM
Nothing meta-gamy about it. Overlord operated under the assumption that the capitals were not just symbolic, but actual foci of a realm, their hearts and brains, and so taking them out would destroy a realm. Maybe not make it vanish immediately, just like a body whose heart you just stabbed takes a while to rot away, but definitely finish them off for good.

To me it sounded like Overlord heard what he wanted to hear out of what Lucius said. I said "so long as there is one stronghold left, one bastion of humanity in this land, there will be those who fight on." From that Overlord immediately jumped to "Aha, so you're saying you can move your capital around?". I don't really see it. What I meant was, 'even with just two capitals, we'll still resist you'. And we would. If Fronen lost its last city, I'd be on my way to Thalmarkin in two shakes and a jiffy.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Marlboro on May 08, 2012, 11:38:39 PM
If Fronen lost its last city, I'd be on my way to Thalmarkin in two shakes and a jiffy.

The party at Unger is currently BYOSF, but there's an open bar at least, and our DJ kicks ass.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Solari on May 09, 2012, 12:07:05 AM
If Fronen lost its last city, I'd be on my way to Thalmarkin in two shakes and a jiffy.

YESSSSSS  :D :D
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on May 09, 2012, 03:07:06 AM
Nothing meta-gamy about it. Overlord operated under the assumption that the capitals were not just symbolic, but actual foci of a realm, their hearts and brains, and so taking them out would destroy a realm. Maybe not make it vanish immediately, just like a body whose heart you just stabbed takes a while to rot away, but definitely finish them off for good.

I don't really like this line of thought, but whatever, it's end-game anyways.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Turner on May 09, 2012, 03:14:03 AM
Yeah, that was the single most damaging sentence spoken during this invasion. I was wondering why nobody had yet caught on to the fact that Overlord and the Horrors only ever attacked capitals and afterwards completely ignored those realms.

I did catch on, which is why my character has barely said anything in the rulers group infront of Overlord. Perhaps the other rulers should refrain from taunting and goating Overlord, all I have seen is that it makes matters worse for the human realms. At the end of the day words are meaningless, it is the results on the battlefield and who is left standing at the end that matters.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: mikm on May 09, 2012, 11:02:45 AM
So much waiting and nothing hapening.

Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on May 09, 2012, 04:12:09 PM
I don't really mind a little breathing time...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Madigan on May 09, 2012, 04:37:34 PM
I don't really mind a little breathing time...

Likewise. If only everyone wasn't so eager to march directly in the jaws of death and overwhelming odds.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Marlboro on May 13, 2012, 03:53:47 AM
Well, !@#$. XD

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1xxHQBIITA
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Penchant on May 13, 2012, 04:04:18 AM
Well, !@#$. XD

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1xxHQBIITA
I don't play on Beluaterra so what happened?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Marlboro on May 13, 2012, 04:14:16 AM
You play on Dwilight? Imagine all of the Zuma unit leaders, multiply their CS by 2 or 3.

Sitting right outside Unger.

vvv We'll find a way, when all hope is gone!
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on May 13, 2012, 08:25:24 PM
You mean all hope is gone for the daimons? ;)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Solari on May 14, 2012, 04:01:17 AM
You know what sucks?  Staring down the entirety of the Daimonic force just outside your capital, having pleaded with your neighbors and allies to send help, and getting nothing but silence on the other end.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tan dSerrai on May 14, 2012, 09:47:02 AM
/That/ I can well imagine. Having a 'gate' between Rines and Unger would certainly help....sigh.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Indirik on May 14, 2012, 09:50:32 AM
Maybe your allies are not your friends.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Solari on May 14, 2012, 12:12:49 PM
Maybe your allies are not your friends.

Then I think it's time for Thalmarkin to relocate, irrespective of the current owner.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Iltaran on May 14, 2012, 01:37:39 PM
I was not silent!
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Solari on May 14, 2012, 02:08:21 PM
I was not silent!

You kinda were!  All of you were!  ;)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Naidraug on May 14, 2012, 06:04:04 PM
Maybe we just don't want to ruin a surprise for you...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Morningstar on May 14, 2012, 07:26:07 PM
Maybe we just don't want to ruin a surprise for you...

Surprise! We just let you die!
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Marlboro on May 14, 2012, 07:33:42 PM
It's 57 miles to Winifael, we've got a horse full of grass, half a case of whiskey, it's dark... and we're wearing our visors down.

Hit it.  8)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: mikm on May 14, 2012, 09:51:29 PM
Traveling is troublesome. Even if Sint sends troops now I doubt they will arrive in time.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Thunthorn on May 14, 2012, 09:58:51 PM
I fully admit to have been more silent than I should have as Imperator of Melhed. RL issues are mostly to be blamed. Unfortunately even if I had been more verbose we couldn't have done much more to help as rebuilding after the battles in Agyr has been painfully slow. All RCs were empty, most funds were used up and all surviving units were battered down to a minimum.

We are getting back on our feets now though some units that for unknown reasons had taking up position in Bil Havil got squished by Overlord this evening.

Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on May 15, 2012, 03:41:20 AM
You know what sucks?  Staring down the entirety of the Daimonic force just outside your capital, having pleaded with your neighbors and allies to send help, and getting nothing but silence on the other end.

Fingolfin hasn't actually asked for help, at least not me, though I did on my own initiative instruct my general to see about sending help. Of course Fronen suffers from a high level of inactivity, so you might not get much from us. Too much apathy in my realm  :(
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Solari on May 15, 2012, 03:49:37 AM
Fingolfin hasn't actually asked for help, at least not me, though I did on my own initiative instruct my general to see about sending help. Of course Fronen suffers from a high level of inactivity, so you might not get much from us. Too much apathy in my realm  :(

Nope, your General contacted me.  Fingolfin only gets involved when Enzo doesn't hear from the Generals. It's a fine relationship we have.  The General runs to the Ruler to complain, so he talks to the other Rulers.  ;D
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Charles on May 15, 2012, 07:42:18 PM
I was headed to Unger via Qual when Bil Havil was attacked.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Marlboro on May 17, 2012, 06:23:43 AM
For posterity:

Dead Reckoning
Captain Vilmar (+3)
Type:   Special Forces
Strength:   42 men
Training:   87 %
Weapons/Armour:   87% / 60%
Damage:    0 %
Morale:    100 %
Cohesion:    54 %
Combat Strength:   1016
Encounter Setting:    normal
Deployment Line:    front
Deployment Formation:    wedge
Designation:    army

Babby's First 1K CS Unit is down to tap some kegs and raise some hell.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: mikm on May 17, 2012, 08:32:50 AM
Rural takeovers now. Strange enough- the dynamic is not updating.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Charles on May 17, 2012, 07:14:00 PM
I have actually be quite impressed at how well we have been able to rebuild armies.  Alot of past investment goes a long way.  I think this is the third time we have rebuilt a 20kCS army nearly from scratch.  Not without concequences though: I had to do some drafting from my region, so we are suffering from it.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on May 19, 2012, 06:44:20 PM
2 down, 3 (or 5) to go. :)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: mikm on May 19, 2012, 08:54:13 PM
This recent was really something. If only Darkest Hour had died a litle I would have still had a unit.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Marlboro on May 19, 2012, 09:35:21 PM
This recent was really something. If only Darkest Hour had died a litle I would have still had a unit.

They're only commoners!

http://www.hark.com/clips/cwlvpmmdqj-buy-another-one-you-rich-motha
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Iltaran on May 20, 2012, 05:28:14 AM
DIE! DIE YOU CITY STEALING DAIMON!

*coughs*

Don't mind me
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on May 20, 2012, 02:46:54 PM
Wooohoooo! The Unblightening is upon us again!
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Anaris on May 20, 2012, 03:02:46 PM
More than that:

There's a path open between North and South.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Iltaran on May 20, 2012, 03:08:06 PM
My beautiful Ossmat still isn't unblighted though  :'(
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: James on May 20, 2012, 03:12:39 PM
Rila will be quite happy to accept a city (and much gold and many unique items) in thanks for killing the Daimon which has then brought about the unblighting... :D
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Darksun on May 20, 2012, 05:44:20 PM
I truly hope that someone has been keeping track of those who levelled the killing blows against the commanders...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on May 20, 2012, 05:56:00 PM
Sir Darius D`Este Dawnbringer and Lady Rila Nabarl Who-Still-Needs-A-Fitting-Nickname.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Marlboro on May 20, 2012, 08:55:31 PM
Sir Darius D`Este Dawnbringer and Lady Rila Nabarl Who-Still-Needs-A-Fitting-Nickname.

Dame Rila the Redeemer.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Iltaran on May 21, 2012, 09:54:51 AM
Gilbert Norrel of Melhed also gets a shirt for taking down Overlord.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: mikm on May 21, 2012, 12:19:41 PM
I truly hope that someone has been keeping track of those who levelled the killing blows against the commanders...
What about the judges?  They have the bigest kill record of all.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Charles on May 21, 2012, 02:53:35 PM
Have there been other "unblighting" of regions when the Daimon comanders are killed?  Other than the other battle in Thalmarkin?  I only remember these two occasions.  Is there anything special about the two battles and killings?  Or have I misinterpreted something?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Anaris on May 21, 2012, 03:20:23 PM
Have there been other "unblighting" of regions when the Daimon comanders are killed?  Other than the other battle in Thalmarkin?  I only remember these two occasions.  Is there anything special about the two battles and killings?  Or have I misinterpreted something?

It happened both times we killed a Darkest Hour.

After the darkest hour comes the dawn.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Iltaran on May 21, 2012, 03:49:10 PM
Just to expand for those weaklings without characters on Beluaterra.

When the invasion started, there were five named Daimons leading units; "Overlord" and four "Nightfalls" (Nightfall of the North, East, South and West respectively). As we killed the "Nightfalls", they were replaced by a "Midnight". In turn, after we killed a "Midnight", they were replaced by a "Darkest Hour". So "Nightfall of the North" was captured and executed by Melhed. "Midnight of the North" replaced him a few days later and eventually died attacking Firbalt. Finally came "Darkest Hour of the North", who was killed by Darius in Unger. After this, a number of regions were unblighted.

Darkest Hour of the North and the West have both been killed, while Darkest Hour of the South and Midnight of the East are still active.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Velax on May 21, 2012, 03:52:53 PM
What was this "Blight Daimon" I saw in a battle report a few days ago?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on May 21, 2012, 04:01:02 PM
A new commander of some sort that leads a unit of Blight Daimons. He didn't have a very powerful unit (by comparison anyway), and does not seem to have been replaced as of yet. Not sure if there will be more of them or not.

Personally, I kind of hope this really is the end game. I'm starting to get a little tired of the daimons springing surprises on us. The first couple times it was suitably shocking and entertaining, but I think I'm ready for the Invasion to wind down at this point. I just want to kick some ass a few more times and go home, though that unit Overlord is currently leading is absolutely monstrous. I suspect we'll have to wear it down through attrition by sending two or three massive armies to their deaths; not sure there's any other choice/way to beat him unless you can somehow manage to completely avoid the charge, and even then I imagine that unit can dish some serious damage.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: JPierreD on May 21, 2012, 04:56:10 PM
Darkest Hour of the North and the West have both been killed, while Darkest Hour of the South and Midnight of the East are still active.

It's Midnight of the South, unfortunately, not Darkest Hour. Yet...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Darksun on May 22, 2012, 03:09:45 AM
It's Midnight of the South, unfortunately, not Darkest Hour. Yet...

Probably why the south is in such good shape... :(
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Charles on May 22, 2012, 06:01:41 AM
Will we have to kill all the Darkest hours for the blight to be lifted?  I suppose that means that the north will have to move South once Overlord is beaten. 
I like talking about that as though it is innevitable, Melhed just got schooled.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Iltaran on May 22, 2012, 03:10:10 PM
Unfortunately we got a bit overconfident after the victories in Winifael and Jedinchel. It was assumed Overlord would just continue his TO instead of attacking before we could fully move into position.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: fodder on May 22, 2012, 03:20:07 PM
hmm... the lifting of the blight...does it only lift the ones caused by TOs?
eg.. there was vilrill or some such that wasn't blighted by TO but by portal stones or some such.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Naidraug on May 22, 2012, 03:32:01 PM
No, the area around Reeds that was blighted is not blighted anymore. So it is not just TOed regions
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: vonGenf on May 22, 2012, 03:39:13 PM
Are there any of the regions that were blighted during the 4th invasion that have been unblighted? I've lost track.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Naidraug on May 22, 2012, 03:57:39 PM
Weghie, Bajit, Watto, Mokut, Yokk, there are others arround Firbalt that were unblighted
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on May 22, 2012, 03:58:05 PM
Are there any of the regions that were blighted during the 4th invasion that have been unblighted? I've lost track.

Only around 25...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Iltaran on May 22, 2012, 04:06:09 PM
*puts on his resident-historians hat*

Twenty-three of the regions blighted during the 4th invasion have been unblighted by my count. Of those blighted in the 5th invasion, I think five have been unblighted; Firbalt, Reeds, Zhule, Eg Tutnu and Fheuvenem.

I'll toss up a map showing what's changed when I get a chance.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: mikm on May 22, 2012, 06:40:56 PM
A new commander of some sort that leads a unit of Blight Daimons. He didn't have a very powerful unit (by comparison anyway), and does not seem to have been replaced as of yet. Not sure if there will be more of them or not.

Personally, I kind of hope this really is the end game. I'm starting to get a little tired of the daimons springing surprises on us. The first couple times it was suitably shocking and entertaining, but I think I'm ready for the Invasion to wind down at this point. I just want to kick some ass a few more times and go home, though that unit Overlord is currently leading is absolutely monstrous. I suspect we'll have to wear it down through attrition by sending two or three massive armies to their deaths; not sure there's any other choice/way to beat him unless you can somehow manage to completely avoid the charge, and even then I imagine that unit can dish some serious damage.

There's a unit of blight daimons playing takeover in Gilhalcert. Talk about bad timing.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: JPierreD on May 22, 2012, 11:59:12 PM
I think Blight Daimon is the stage that comes after Darkest Hour. The first one spawned after we kacked DHotN, and since we killed DHotW there should be a new one running around.

They are minor commanders, I would say. With no sons left Overlord was forced to recruit those weaklings...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Charles on May 23, 2012, 03:54:52 AM
Unlike other Daimons, the blight creatures might actually have the CS from the scouts report.  Maybe even higher, I forget exact details.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: JPierreD on May 23, 2012, 04:46:43 AM
DO NOT underestimate them based on scout reports. That's all I'm gonna say.

Luckily I already knew that IC, but next time please don't spoil it.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on May 25, 2012, 08:09:28 PM
Drinilla was taken by Horrors but not blighted... weird.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: mikm on May 25, 2012, 09:33:17 PM
After about a 90% progress on their takeover with no interuptions the daimons just left Gilhalcert.
Totaly unexpected :o
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Thunthorn on May 25, 2012, 10:09:46 PM
Drinilla was taken by Horrors but not blighted... weird.

Ae you sure that it is not the maps that are slow on the update? It took days for the blighting of Bil Havil to show on the map.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Iltaran on May 26, 2012, 08:00:50 AM
Midnight of the East is absurdly lucky.

We keep beating him and he just wont die!
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Zakilevo on May 30, 2012, 06:13:04 AM
He is the luckiest out of all the daimon commanders :p
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Brant on May 30, 2012, 04:32:44 PM
When's the last time you saw a hero killed by archer fire?   I can't remember that I ever have...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Velax on May 30, 2012, 05:06:55 PM
When's the last time you saw a hero killed by archer fire?   I can't remember that I ever have...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Godwinson#Death
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on May 30, 2012, 05:44:26 PM
IG: Darkest Hour of the North was killed by an archer unit.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on May 30, 2012, 06:16:32 PM
It happens, though not as often as in cavalry charges.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on May 30, 2012, 07:41:02 PM
I'm starting to think that all these unblightings are just a bait cleverly orchestrated by Overlord to distract the weak-willed amongst us...

Sint bit.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: mikm on May 30, 2012, 07:53:48 PM
I'm starting to think that all these unblightings are just a bait cleverly orchestrated by Overlord to distract the weak-willed amongst us...

Sint bit.

Well, Firbalt does hapen to have some hardcore recruitment centers.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Telrunya on May 31, 2012, 04:14:44 PM
The worst thing about being wounded is the fact you can't see the Scout Report of the aftermath of the battle. What happened in Rummanen? I received a few messages that were far more positive then I thought it should be.

Now praying I'll heal up quick enough with my wounds already worsening as I believe Sassan has my Healing Scroll, and he's seriously wounded as well :)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Arrakis on May 31, 2012, 04:21:48 PM
We only had 17k and some were not in proper place, so the charge devoured us as usual. The daimons are now moving to Uscala. Whether they stop there or accompany us to rines remains to be seen.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Telrunya on May 31, 2012, 04:22:55 PM
That's what I figured, yes. Guess those letters were just more positive then they should be.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Anaris on May 31, 2012, 04:26:45 PM
We only had 17k and some were not in proper place, so the charge devoured us as usual. The daimons are now moving to Uscala. Whether they stop there or accompany us to rines remains to be seen.

We did not have "some not in proper place", our illustrious Marshal had Archer Opening set.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Arrakis on May 31, 2012, 04:27:52 PM
Ah, I apologize. Didn't really study the report, just figured people were out of place. My bad. :)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Indirik on May 31, 2012, 04:39:35 PM
Well, technically, they still weren't in the right place. It just wasn't their fault. :P
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Arrakis on May 31, 2012, 04:45:15 PM
Lol indeed.  :)

Anyway, the south seems pretty desperate. The Daimon running around seems invincible, and since I assume his unit has cohesion and stuff, it appears to be quite upgraded since it is alive for so long. Riombara spent several weeks building an army and we peaked at 25K i think, which doesn't appear to be enough. The only place to defeat them is in our capital but he won't come. Whatever he does next I just hope this rhapsody of boredom ends soon.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Indirik on May 31, 2012, 04:58:33 PM
I'm starting to think that all these unblightings are just a bait cleverly orchestrated by Overlord to distract the weak-willed amongst us...

Sint bit.
It's not like Thalmarkin is giving Sint any incentive to come help. Both letters that I've seen have been very insulting. There was never even a "Can you guys come help us out?" And no consideration given to the fact that we have a rather large unit of blight daimons ravaging our lands.

At least not that I've seen. If it was sent to the general... well, he was pretty inactive for quite a while. Sint's command structure is a complete mess.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on May 31, 2012, 06:42:47 PM
It's not like Thalmarkin is giving Sint any incentive to come help. Both letters that I've seen have been very insulting. There was never even a "Can you guys come help us out?" And no consideration given to the fact that we have a rather large unit of blight daimons ravaging our lands.

At least not that I've seen. If it was sent to the general... well, he was pretty inactive for quite a while. Sint's command structure is a complete mess.

Sometimes you deserve to be insulted. It's not like those letters were sent /before/ Sint started marching the wrong way either.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Indirik on May 31, 2012, 07:03:46 PM
They were sent when our army was already sitting in Daisha, waiting to move on Firbalt, because no one had asked us to do anything else. (Well, half of us were in Daisha. The idlers were all sitting around in Keffa doing nothing.) The first thing we heard about a coordinated attack on Overlord was Fingolfin's rant/threat. Were we supposed to know by, say, osmosis that there was this attack on Overlord planned? So when you start complaining about how Sint wasn't doing anything, you can thank your own crappy planning for not *asking* them to do anything. Srsly, what's the Draconic Union for, if not planning and coordinating these kinds of things?

If I were Sint's general I would have made it a point to tell Fingolfin to go piss in the wind. And the next time he want's help, he'd better ask politely the first time.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on May 31, 2012, 07:12:55 PM
They were sent when our army was already sitting in Daisha, waiting to move on Firbalt, because no one had asked us to do anything else. (Well, half of us were in Daisha. The idlers were all sitting around in Keffa doing nothing.) The first thing we heard about a coordinated attack on Overlord was Fingolfin's rant/threat. Were we supposed to know by, say, osmosis that there was this attack on Overlord planned? So when you start complaining about how Sint wasn't doing anything, you can thank your own crappy planning for not *asking* them to do anything. Srsly, what's the Draconic Union for, if not planning and coordinating these kinds of things?

If I were Sint's general I would have made it a point to tell Fingolfin to go piss in the wind. And the next time he want's help, he'd better ask politely the first time.

I find that very hard to believe. Old Grehk has been sitting in Unger for almost a week, waiting. Did they just march on nothing but instinct? The answer is no.
/Every/ realm in the North has been contacted days before Fingolfin's letter to your new general. It's not our fault your ruler and general were inactive/apathetic.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Noldorin on May 31, 2012, 07:21:12 PM
Well, I have been sending continuous letters to the human rulers, a few of them per week or so the last months. Im not sure what you know about it, but Benton has not sent a single letter to the rulers for 35 days now. If Sint is pleased with this and thinks he is doing an awesome job, then my and Lorgans letters werent even close to what you deserve.

"because no one had asked us to do anything else"

LOL. I would be happy to see proof for this, since I have lots of letters in my out-box stating differently. This is perhaps not Sints fault and only Bentons, but again if your ruler's activity pleases you, you deserve alot more crap than you have recieved. As a ruler I primarily write to the rulers (since this includes realms that are not in the Draconic Union), while I expect my general to write the generals and then just about anyone can adress the DU. After not hearing a word from Sint in ages and also checking your military strength vs ecnomic strength etc I wrote the letter to your general, which was far less insulting than it should have been acctually. Your General seem to be very sympathetic though and agree in what I said, but perhaps he was just being nice, who knows :)

And be carefull where you ask me to piss, cause next time it might just be on Sint  8)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Indirik on May 31, 2012, 07:34:05 PM
Im not sure what you know about it, but Benton has not sent a single letter to the rulers for 35 days now. If Sint is pleased with this and thinks he is doing an awesome job, then my and Lorgans letters werent even close to what you deserve.
No, he's inactive and ineffective. And we all know it.

Quote
"because no one had asked us to do anything else"

LOL. I would be happy to see proof for this, since I have lots of letters in my out-box stating differently.
If only I could. What I can tell you is that in the realm, the Military Council, and the Draconic Union, not a single message or request was passed for Sint to do anything at all. Which is why Lorgan's letter to the Draconic Union pissed off so many people. You're insulting the wrong people, which won't convince anyone to be sympathetic to your call.

Quote
Your General seem to be very sympathetic though and agree in what I said, but perhaps he was just being nice, who knows :)
He agrees that Sint has been idling too much, too. We all do. Ineffective leadership, and a marshal with no initiative. Thiara is great if she has an objective. But she won't come up with objectives on her own.

Quote
And be carefull where you ask me to piss, cause next time it might just be on Sint  8)
Please do. They (we ;) ) have a LOT of inactive high-ranking members. I've been complaining about it to the realm, and the military council for weeks, if not months. In fact, I had already told the realm that I was marching east to go fight the daimons, and if Sint didn't march, then I was going to join someone else who did. I even looked for empty estates in Thalmarkin while I was there, but didn't see any. Sint did end up marching to fight in Jedinchel/Qual, though, so I stuck with them. For now, anyway. As long as they keep fighting, I'll stick with it. Especially now that Ralina knows that Thalmarkin is a bunch of jerks. >:(
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Noldorin on May 31, 2012, 07:59:20 PM
Well, we insulted the leadership (at least Fingolfins letter was for the leadership only, more or less), so if others in Sint feel accused by it, they probably do so only because they should.

I get the feeling from your words that you acctually agree with the critics of Sint's slacking, so Im not sure what the conversation is about, except that some phrases may have been harsh. But well, we arent playing dolls here.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Indirik on May 31, 2012, 08:39:51 PM
Yes, I do agree that Sint is slacking off. Like I said: Totally ineffective leadership. Benton blames it on the realm, because he claims he's only there for diplomacy purposes, and that it's everyone else's job to actually run the realm. Reminds me of ruler in Fontan (Aulus Severus) who claimed the same thing. Funny how it got Fontan roflstomped, and it's looking like it's going to be the same for Sint when the invasion is over. :P Don't worry, I won't shed any tears for them.

But even so, stating all that so blatantly and harshly in a public forum where *none* of these complaints had previously been voiced before... what did you *think* would happen? That everyone in Sint would just trip all over themselves trying to please Thalmarkin?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Telrunya on May 31, 2012, 08:54:48 PM
Well, you have to admit Thalmarkin is pretty badass.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on May 31, 2012, 08:58:34 PM
But even so, stating all that so blatantly and harshly in a public forum where *none* of these complaints had previously been voiced before... what did you *think* would happen? That everyone in Sint would just trip all over themselves trying to please Thalmarkin?

Well, I wasn't really trying to be diplomatic you know. :P Just trying to shun Sint for what they were doing. If all realms who can are helping, and Sint isn't... well then all it takes is for someone to point it out and the shunning can begin.
Lucky for you, your new general saves the day. :)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Indirik on May 31, 2012, 09:27:05 PM
Lucky for you, your new general saves the day. :)
Boo!  >:(
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Turner on June 01, 2012, 01:48:22 AM
Old Grehk doesnt like being caught in the middle of your mud flinging matches you know :P

Sint might be having issues with their ruler/general activeness, but they havent let us down yet. They came to our aid in Ossmat and a couple of other instances I recall. I dont think it was intentional on their part not to help in the defence of the North.

I'd be inclined to put it down to poor communication from the top down. Hopefully they can resolve it and we can get on with kicking Overlords arse :)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on June 01, 2012, 02:34:39 AM
Well, I wasn't really trying to be diplomatic you know. :P Just trying to shun Sint for what they were doing. If all realms who can are helping, and Sint isn't... well then all it takes is for someone to point it out and the shunning can begin.
Lucky for you, your new general saves the day. :)

I've been shunning Sint since way before it become cool!  8)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on June 01, 2012, 12:36:06 PM
I've been shunning Sint since way before it become cool!  8)

No realm that deserves to be shunned more than Enweil atm.

"We will fight the daimons in non-military ways!" That made me laugh out loud. :P

But, I've got my other character for that. :)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on June 01, 2012, 02:11:35 PM
No realm that deserves to be shunned more than Enweil atm.

"We will fight the daimons in non-military ways!" That made me laugh out loud. :P

But, I've got my other character for that. :)

Better than "we will not fight the daimons, even in military ways!" or "we'll go attack our neighbors whenever we come to "help" them!".

It's amazing how Guillaume lost everything to the daimons, and Riombarans still think he had some kind of deal going on with them. 'cause it's so cool to lose one's city, duchy, and realm, right? Much more interesting to be lord of a beat-up rural in another realm?

Every time Riombarans set foot in Fheuv'n soils, they committed sabotage. When Fheuv'n troops had sent troops to help Enweil's East, they got ambushed by Riombarans who had just declared war on Enweil.

Can't be much of a surprise that many of us would rather die (or be useless) than join Riombara, when Riombara was one of the main reasons we couldn't do much during most of the invasion.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Anaris on June 01, 2012, 02:27:41 PM
It's amazing how Guillaume lost everything to the daimons, and Riombarans still think he had some kind of deal going on with them. 'cause it's so cool to lose one's city, duchy, and realm, right? Much more interesting to be lord of a beat-up rural in another realm?

What, you don't think the Daimons are reliable deal-makers, do you?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on June 01, 2012, 02:35:41 PM
What, you don't think the Daimons are reliable deal-makers, do you?

Obviously not. I've been dealing with them since they first showed up, that's something that became clear since the third invasion.

Enweil and Fheuv'n, which are pretty much the world to Guillaume, were crushed while Riombara still have two cities and many unblighted regions. I'm not saying there was any kind of favoritism, but one really has to be daft to believe that Guillaume got anything whatsoever from the daimons when he lost everything to them. Heck, they even turned some of his closest allies against him, making them believe lies.

Not to mention that Fheuv'n never attacked a human realm during the invasion, unlike Riombara. A lot of badmouthing, but Guillaume did not want to give the daimons an edge by having humans kill each other. He wanted Enweili hegemony, which just isn't possible if the whole continent is blighted.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Anaris on June 01, 2012, 02:39:00 PM
Obviously not. I've been dealing with them since they first showed up, that's something that became clear since the third invasion.

Enweil and Fheuv'n, which are pretty much the world to Guillaume, were crushed while Riombara still have two cities and many unblighted regions. I'm not saying there was any kind of favoritism, but one really has to be daft to believe that Guillaume got anything whatsoever from the daimons when he lost everything to them. Heck, they even turned some of his closest allies against him, making them believe lies.

Not to mention that Fheuv'n never attacked a human realm during the invasion, unlike Riombara. A lot of badmouthing, but Guillaume did not want to give the daimons an edge by having humans kill each other. He wanted Enweili hegemony, which just isn't possible if the whole continent is blighted.

*shrug*

I was trying to indicate that that's basically what at least some in Riombara think about your characters and Fheuv'n. "Well, he made a deal with the Daimons, what can he expect when they betray him?" "Serves him right." "Daimon-worshipers can burn." That sort of thing.

I wasn't around for enough of the early part of the invasion—and am still not in a position of enough power—to comment on the higher-level stuff.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on June 01, 2012, 02:48:01 PM
*shrug*

I was trying to indicate that that's basically what at least some in Riombara think about your characters and Fheuv'n. "Well, he made a deal with the Daimons, what can he expect when they betray him?" "Serves him right." "Daimon-worshipers can burn." That sort of thing.

I wasn't around for enough of the early part of the invasion—and am still not in a position of enough power—to comment on the higher-level stuff.

Yea, but it's not like it's some kind of favor that turned against him. Fheuv'n *never* got anything favorable. We kept getting bashed by daimon armies every week or two. Whenever our army would finally recuperate, they'd come and plunder us again. Our cities were sieged again and again. As soon as we took Fheuvenem, they blighted Iato.

I'd understand if Fheuv'n started really well off, and then !@#$ happened. But that was not the case, Fheuv'n was struggling a hell of a lot more than Riombara was, and this throughout the invasion.

Ironically, the only time Guillaume wanted the daimons's aid is when Marec betrayed him by believing their lies. But then again, that was just to get revenge against Marec after he believed their lies, betrayed the Creed by which he swore to, and exposed Miroslav to a ban after forcing a lot of people to Riombara against their will. Lots of reasons for Guillaume to be mad with the illegitimate duke that used to be his right-hand man.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on June 01, 2012, 02:59:28 PM
Yea, but it's not like it's some kind of favor that turned against him. Fheuv'n *never* got anything favorable.

But Enweil did.

I'd understand if Fheuv'n started really well off, and then !@#$ happened. But that was not the case, Fheuv'n was struggling a hell of a lot more than Riombara was, and this throughout the invasion.

That's not really surprising. Riombara was in a much better position geographically, economically and militarily. And Enweil losing OVerlord's little game (and then not telling anyone about it) also put us in a good strategical position where most of our battles were in foreign lands.
We did pretty well against the daimons, it only started going bad after Hvrek's betrayal and even the threat that emerged from that was fairly well contained, only Fwuvoghor was lost.

Anyway, OOC I've always thought that Overlord was lying to us but IC the feud that has existed for generations may cloud judgement from time to time. ;)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Anaris on June 01, 2012, 03:28:04 PM
Yea, but it's not like it's some kind of favor that turned against him. Fheuv'n *never* got anything favorable. We kept getting bashed by daimon armies every week or two. Whenever our army would finally recuperate, they'd come and plunder us again. Our cities were sieged again and again. As soon as we took Fheuvenem, they blighted Iato.

Well, my understanding and recollection is that a) you weren't too communicative with Riombara (except for threats and propaganda), and b) Fheuvenem remained yours longer than it was felt was likely if there was no deal. But, as I said, I wasn't involved at the higher levels, and a lot of these impressions came from the forum chatter ;D
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on June 01, 2012, 05:58:15 PM
Guess who has the Darkest Hour of the West's weapon! 8)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Indirik on June 01, 2012, 06:25:00 PM
You should start calling yourself "Dawn of the West"
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Marlboro on June 01, 2012, 07:40:45 PM
Guess who has the Darkest Hour of the West's weapon! 8)

No way!
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on June 01, 2012, 07:49:56 PM
No way!

Yes way! :)

Gonna give it to Rila though, just... at the same time that I build her statue so I need to take a little time to write that. :)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on June 01, 2012, 08:53:21 PM
Guess who has the Darkest Hour of the West's weapon! 8)

Uh? A unique item? If any of the Daimons except Overlord had any, those were just regular unique items that they found somewhere.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on June 01, 2012, 09:02:14 PM
Uh? A unique item? If any of the Daimons except Overlord had any, those were just regular unique items that they found somewhere.

Yeah I know, it just gives +5 prestige and there really isn't anything daimonical about it but still, DHotW once wielded so it's pretty special. :)

Edit: It's called the Black Broadsword btw.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on June 01, 2012, 11:21:08 PM
Well, my understanding and recollection is that a) you weren't too communicative with Riombara (except for threats and propaganda), and b) Fheuvenem remained yours longer than it was felt was likely if there was no deal. But, as I said, I wasn't involved at the higher levels, and a lot of these impressions came from the forum chatter ;D

Well, Riombarans kept sending priests and infils against us. And I doubt that their ruler was sharing any of the compromises I was agreeing to, either.

And while it's true that Fheuvenem could have been taken long before, the regular strikes against it meant we never got to do anything thanks to its wealth.

And hey, it took forever for Sint to get any real heat too, especially considering their proximity to Jobo's Mouth. ;)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: JPierreD on June 02, 2012, 12:28:11 AM
Better than "we will not fight the daimons, even in military ways!" or "we'll go attack our neighbors whenever we come to "help" them!".

Who attacked IVF? The declaration of war on Enweil was illegally done by the banned traitor ruler. If you can't separate him from Riombara then it is natural that you will have encountered problems.

Well, Riombarans kept sending priests and infils against us. And I doubt that their ruler was sharing any of the compromises I was agreeing to, either.

You mean the traitor ruler who was banned and exiled? The problem is that IVF never collaborated after that. When we got a decent ruler all we received from IVF was a declaration of war, no intelligence reports, little answers and the Daimons attacking our heartland while we had our army sent to help in the distant IVF.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on June 02, 2012, 01:02:45 AM
Who attacked IVF? The declaration of war on Enweil was illegally done by the banned traitor ruler. If you can't separate him from Riombara then it is natural that you will have encountered problems.

You mean the traitor ruler who was banned and exiled? The problem is that IVF never collaborated after that. When we got a decent ruler all we received from IVF was a declaration of war, no intelligence reports, little answers and the Daimons attacking our heartland while we had our army sent to help in the distant IVF.

If I remember correctly, that ruler wasn't banned and exiled. He seceded. Big difference. Especially when the reasons for him losing his power was for his alleged dealing with the daimons, not for his actions against Enweil and Fheuv'n. Also, Riombara has a history of sacrificing scapegoats who they tolerated way too long. So no, I don't disassociate the two.

Especially when Riombara didn't do any better afterwards. The priest issues were handled when we took things into our own hands. As for the infiltrator issues, it happed again long after that "traitor" was "banned".

Not to mention that attacking Enweil was something everything was fine with: they could have easily refused to march against Enweil were they opposed to it. You don't get to blame all of that on a single person.

You ain't gonna get any sympathy for when you came to "help" and the daimons attacked you. 1) You were constantly told NOT to come, that we would rather die than allow you in our lands. 2) We didn't have any scout reports to share to begin with. 3) We DID tell you that the daimons had moved away, into the blight North. 4) Riombaran infils did sabotage against us in this campaign to "help" us you speak of. As soon as you stepped into our lands.

The most Fheuv'n did against Rio during the invasion, on the other hand, was say harsh words and go loot a temple of two (of the faith led by that traitor of yours, because the faith kept attacking us, so you shouldn't care about this).

And somehow, we are the bad guys.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: JPierreD on June 02, 2012, 02:14:30 AM
If I remember correctly, that ruler wasn't banned and exiled. He seceded. Big difference.

He appointed himself to the Duchy right after the intention of rebelling (and thus providing a ban to the otherwise royal) became public. He was found guilty and condemned for all purposes but game mechanics. The secession was a consequence, not a cause.

Especially when the reasons for him losing his power was for his alleged dealing with the daimons, not for his actions against Enweil and Fheuv'n.

Not sure where did you get that, but it is not true. Several were his crimes, illegal declaration of war among them.

Also, Riombara has a history of sacrificing scapegoats who they tolerated way too long. So no, I don't disassociate the two.

As soon as what happened was made public he was trialed. Can't speak for the past, have not been there.

Especially when Riombara didn't do any better afterwards. The priest issues were handled when we took things into our own hands. As for the infiltrator issues, it happed again long after that "traitor" was "banned".

My character is the Judge, and I have no idea of what such issues might have been. Currently in Overlord's prison, though.

Not to mention that attacking Enweil was something everything was fine with: they could have easily refused to march against Enweil were they opposed to it. You don't get to blame all of that on a single person.

Which attack on Enweil? We only went there to burn Daimon Worship temples with their consent.

You ain't gonna get any sympathy for when you came to "help" and the daimons attacked you. 1) You were constantly told NOT to come, that we would rather die than allow you in our lands. 2) We didn't have any scout reports to share to begin with. 3) We DID tell you that the daimons had moved away, into the blight North. 4) Riombaran infils did sabotage against us in this campaign to "help" us you speak of. As soon as you stepped into our lands.

Never heard about any Riombaran infiltrator sabotaging IVF, but we were only told where the Daimons were heading too late, and that was a very suspicious episode.

The most Fheuv'n did against Rio during the invasion, on the other hand, was say harsh words and go loot a temple of two (of the faith led by that traitor of yours, because the faith kept attacking us, so you shouldn't care about this).

And somehow, we are the bad guys.

Noone in Rio cares about those temples, it is the lack of cooperation against the invasion and the dealings with the Daimons that convict IVF.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on June 02, 2012, 02:39:54 AM
The attack Enweil was not authorized by Enweil. You went and smashed up their army for no good reason. Or rather, for selfish reasons, because you wanted to takeover Lopa for yourselves. Was the declaration of war from the previous ruler illegal? Who cares. Your whole army followed that command. Everyone could have decided "No, I am not attacking a human realm during an invasion". You didn't.

Never heard of infiltrators working against Fheuv'n? What, do you think your rulers are actually honest with you? The very moment your army entered our land, one of your infiltrators was seen doing sabotage. And don't think we didn't denounce it.

Rio's accusation are ridiculous.

Lack of cooperation?
Riombara was the one who used religion to harm Fheuv'n and Enweil for as long as it could.
Riombara was the one who sent her army to attack Enweil.
Riombara was the one who kept sending infiltrators against us.
Riombara was the one who kept disrespecting our request to stay out of our lands.

Dealings with the daimons?
Fheuv'n was the one who kept getting brutalized by daimon armies.
Fheuv'n was the one who saw their lands get blighted every week or so.
Fheuv'n was the one whose capitals were being sacked on a bi-weekly basis.
Fheuv'n was the one who got completely wiped off by the daimons.

What was supicious was that I told Riombara we had daimons attacking us. They didn't believe us, so I told them to screw themselves. Then they send a spy in our lands to see if what we said was true, but the spy arrives shortly after the daimons start moving North. We tell them that the daimons moved north, to go screw themselves, and to not enter our lands. They ignore us, and send their army towards Fheuvenem despite both their scout and myself telling them there are no more daimons in my lands. They arrive in our lands, and immediately start sabotage actions. I tell them the daimons are gone, and to go screw themselves (as I rally our battered armies to prepare Fheuvenem for a siege by Riombara). Riombara ignores our requests, say they will continue forward. Next thing you know, daimons are attacking them, and they are blaming us for it.

Honestly, I still suspect the reason you were there to begin with was to siege Fheuvenem to shut up Guillaume once and for all. Guillaume told Riombara numerous times that he didn't want their help, and that the daimons were leaving his lands for the Northern blight. Riombarans decided to ignore him and keep marching towards us. Had you listened, your army would have been at home, ready to fend off the daimons.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Indirik on June 02, 2012, 04:29:32 AM
/me thinks we need a Rio/Enweil debate thread so that this endless argument stops taking over every thread on the forum
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Iltaran on June 02, 2012, 05:29:34 AM
/me thinks we need a Rio/Enweil debate thread so that this endless argument stops taking over every thread on the forum

As a discussion about Beluaterra lengthens, the odds of the Rio/Enweil debate occuring approaches one.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on June 02, 2012, 05:31:55 AM
/me thinks we need a Rio/Enweil debate thread so that this endless argument stops taking over every thread on the forum

Don't we *already* have one?

This isn't Enweil, though, it's Fheuv'n! :D
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on June 02, 2012, 06:21:42 AM
Don't we *already* have one?

This isn't Enweil, though, it's Fheuv'n! :D

Chenier vs. Riombara then? I'd say Chenier vs. Anaris, but Anaris hasn't been very involved with Riombara for a long time now, yet you're still carrying that torch.

Either way I sometimes wonder whether you really believe these things you say on the forum. Hvrek never told anyone what he was up to. The priests that made trouble for Enweil were all his multi-account characters. We didn't even know what he was doing for the most part, at least not IC. Once we started to catch on his position deteriorated rapidly, which triggered his secession.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: JPierreD on June 02, 2012, 06:50:26 AM
The attack Enweil was not authorized by Enweil. You went and smashed up their army for no good reason. Or rather, for selfish reasons, because you wanted to takeover Lopa for yourselves. Was the declaration of war from the previous ruler illegal? Who cares. Your whole army followed that command. Everyone could have decided "No, I am not attacking a human realm during an invasion". You didn't.

I have no idea what you are talking about.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: James on June 02, 2012, 09:44:39 AM
Yeah I know, it just gives +5 prestige and there really isn't anything daimonical about it but still, DHotW once wielded so it's pretty special. :)

Edit: It's called the Black Broadsword btw.

It is quite cool to know that the next battle Rila goes in to she we be wielding the weapon that the Daimon she slayed was using in that battle. :) Sure, the item itself is nothing super special, but fact is Darkest Hour of the West was seen using it in many battles, she killed him, and now will be using that weapon. Is great for RP!
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tan dSerrai on June 02, 2012, 10:14:06 AM
1) Chenier tried to enter into contract with the daimons by taking the last Enweilian region.
2) Hvrek tried to enter into contract with the daimons UNKNOWN to Riombara by taking the last Enweilian region . When we found out, we declared him traitor, protested him out of office and hunted him to exectute him.
3) Chenier continues to declare Riombara 'traitors to humanity' due to Hvrek doing what Chenier himself did. WE did hunt Hvrek for that. Chenier sits smug. And now starts to once again pick on Sint as well. (Note that Sint sent more armies to aid Enweil than IVF ever did).
4) Riombara never attacked Enweil. The only one declaring this over and over is Chenier.
5) Except for Hvrek, Riombara during all of the invasion has not made a single attempt at negotiating with the daimons. We continually fought them, no matter what they offered. I think we can rest asured that the same is not true for Chenier. I know, I was on Riombaras council during the whole invasion.
6) Riombara by now has assisted Enweil countless times on the battlefield - while IVF never did so except for one battle right at the beginning of the invasion.

Lastly:
7) By now practically all of IVF, Enweils and Riombaras nobles are united fighting the daimons, no matter wether they are currently under Enweils or Riombaras banner. IVF nobles are on Riombaras military council, thus could verify this. Cooperation with Enweil could be better sometimes but all in all its working. The only one obsessively trying to sow discontent is...well. Sassan thinks this has to stem from the fact that all of Cheniers intelligent machinations were for naught -thus Chenier /must/ see Riombara as evil - otherwise he has to admit has made grave mistakes. Thus the desperate attempts at clinging to the 'Riombara the evil empire has driven innocent IVF into ruin - but never fear, humanity, here I am in splendid white armour, coming to your rescue!' :D
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on June 02, 2012, 04:27:24 PM
1) Chenier tried to enter into contract with the daimons by taking the last Enweilian region.
2) Hvrek tried to enter into contract with the daimons UNKNOWN to Riombara by taking the last Enweilian region . When we found out, we declared him traitor, protested him out of office and hunted him to exectute him.
3) Chenier continues to declare Riombara 'traitors to humanity' due to Hvrek doing what Chenier himself did. WE did hunt Hvrek for that. Chenier sits smug. And now starts to once again pick on Sint as well. (Note that Sint sent more armies to aid Enweil than IVF ever did).
4) Riombara never attacked Enweil. The only one declaring this over and over is Chenier.
5) Except for Hvrek, Riombara during all of the invasion has not made a single attempt at negotiating with the daimons. We continually fought them, no matter what they offered. I think we can rest asured that the same is not true for Chenier. I know, I was on Riombaras council during the whole invasion.
6) Riombara by now has assisted Enweil countless times on the battlefield - while IVF never did so except for one battle right at the beginning of the invasion.

Lastly:
7) By now practically all of IVF, Enweils and Riombaras nobles are united fighting the daimons, no matter wether they are currently under Enweils or Riombaras banner. IVF nobles are on Riombaras military council, thus could verify this. Cooperation with Enweil could be better sometimes but all in all its working. The only one obsessively trying to sow discontent is...well. Sassan thinks this has to stem from the fact that all of Cheniers intelligent machinations were for naught -thus Chenier /must/ see Riombara as evil - otherwise he has to admit has made grave mistakes. Thus the desperate attempts at clinging to the 'Riombara the evil empire has driven innocent IVF into ruin - but never fear, humanity, here I am in splendid white armour, coming to your rescue!' :D

1) Enweil looked like it was going to die. I offered them to join Fheuv'n to cheat overlord. Instead, they decided to submit to Overlord and construct a Daimon Worship temple in Enweilieos. Riombara, on the other hand, wanted to militarily invade Enweil.
3) By 1, this statement is false. We never threatened to invade Enweil. We offered them reunification. When they declined, we left it at that. It really had little to do with Overlord, because reunification was in Guillaume's plans anyways.
4) I can't believe you actually believe this, this is insane! Netherworld took over Lopa, so Enweil went to take it over. Later, Riombara's army arrives, right after relations were lowered to Enweil. They tell Enweil to move out, but do so to their wounded leaders and give them less than a day to do so. A battle results, Enweil's army got slaughtered. I was there. Fheuv'n's army had come to help Enweil, but lots of them were straggling behind. I arrived first, and got ambushed by an unexpected Riombaran army. You'd have to be really moronic to believe that moving into a region occupied by Enweil's remaining tattered army, right after relations were lowered, would not result in their annihilation. Riombara carries on, taking the region over for themselves after having broken Enweil's takeover. Riombara *did* attack. Ask Enweilians.
5) Guillaume continuously fought the daimons. He never tried to ally them, because 1) he wanted them to all die and 2) their demands were not acceptable for him (giving up his sovereignty and religion, demands that were given to everyone publicly, by the way). The only moment he sought an alliance with the daimons is when Marec betrayed him and brought his duchy to Riombara. For the sole purpose of hunting him down. Well after Fheuv'n was dead. "I know, I was ruling Fheuv'n the whole invasion".
6)It isn't because we didn't pit 60000 CS of troops against the daimons that we didn't fight them. Between the recurrent daimon forces and the eternal rogue attacks, Fheuv'n just didn't have much to send to Enweil. As soon as we cleaned up our rogues and sent an army to help Enweil, a daimon army started marauding through our lands. Every. Single. Time. We had the crappiest economy, just rurals and one tiny city. We hoped to finally be able to achieve something when we finally gained Fheuvenem, but the daimons blighted Iato right away.  Fheuv'n's armies always oscilated between 3000 CS and 10000 CS: 50% of the time around 3000 CS. We only reached 10000 CS twice, once before the invasion and the second lasted about a day or two. And this includes militia. And when we didn't have at least more than double our might in daimons in our land, we had about 2000-4500 CS of rogues scattered all over. Which usually required the full army to come to all corners of our lands, one after the other, to clear them off. Sure, having three hordes of 1500 CS isn't life-threatening for Riombara, but Fheuv'n didn't have Riombara's economy. Imagine rather three hordes of 6000 CS spawning in your lands every second week, with a 60000CS daimon army coming to plunder your cities every leap week. I also wouldn't say "countless". Rather, "a few". Your help to Enweil was always very far apart. And at least Fheuv'n didn't kick them while they were down.
8) Riombara likes half-hearted attempts that make themselves look like knights in splendid white armor coming to humanity's rescue. Rather, Riombara's hoping to kill the daimons in an already dead realm rather of having to fight them in their own lands. Ex-Fheuv'n nobles who joined you are traitors to the Creed the swore to. Enweilians who joined you, well, they were desperate and no other alternative remained.

Chenier vs. Riombara then? I'd say Chenier vs. Anaris, but Anaris hasn't been very involved with Riombara for a long time now, yet you're still carrying that torch.

Either way I sometimes wonder whether you really believe these things you say on the forum. Hvrek never told anyone what he was up to. The priests that made trouble for Enweil were all his multi-account characters. We didn't even know what he was doing for the most part, at least not IC. Once we started to catch on his position deteriorated rapidly, which triggered his secession.

I believe what was stated above. Riombara *did* attack. That you forgot just goes to show how much you didn't make an issue out of attacking a dying realm's remaining tattered forces. I was there. I denounced it. Handkor thanked me for making a fuss about it. And I in a mud-slinging exchange with Marche (who had just arrived, having left the other realm I play in) over it. It did happen. You can claim that you didn'T know there was going to be a fight, as Marche did, but that's naivety to the extreme: Hvrek had just lowered relations to Enweil and Enweil's army was performing a takeover of the region you were marching to. It'd be borderline stupidity to think that a battle would not ensue.

As for all of the accusations against the characters I play, yes, I believe myself. I play the characters. I think I know whether I tried to enter an alliance with them at any given time. There were only two occsaions such a thing occured: 1) concerning the offer to destroy Enweil, by trying to twist Overlord's words and use a ploy to "destroy" Enweil peacefully through reunification. But he was only willing to do this with Enweil's consent, and he did not plan on using his immunity to sit on his ass (daimons said they'd leave alone the nation that kills Enweil, but they didn't say that this nation would have to cease attacking daimons). So really, that was just trying to rip the daimons off, not enter an agreement with them. After all, Enweil was losing its last city, it was a dying realm. We just wanted to make the most of a dying realm, and keep everyone together. The second time was a true time, but that was after Fheuv'n was destroyed, and was to specifically get back at Marec for betraying his trust in such a way. But it was turned down. As for the "agreement" the daimons claimed we had, it was made up. One day, out of the blue, First son comes and gives me 500 gold. I arrest him immediately myself, and order Marec to execute him. They said to use that gold against Riombara. Do you know what that gold served for? Renewing our army that the daimons had just slaughtered. What did we do with this renewed army? We got slaughtered by the daimons against right after, as we were taking daimon lands.

The characters I play are no angels. But they do despise the daimons. They view them as inferiors. But my characters are not dogmatic when it comes to daimons, because they consider (with cause) that Riombara and Sint are the greatest evils (though Sint behaved better than anticipated, unlike Riombara who acted exactly as anticipated). Also consider that Guillaume was the *first* ruler to call for global peace when  the daimons came. He hated Riombara, but he accepted peace with them. On his own initiative. He also accepted to take a hit to region stats to go to peace with Sint. Guillaume never stood in the way of cooperation. If he ended up declaring war on Riombara again, it's because Riombara kept provoking and threatening him. But he never attacked Riombara. Because while he considered Riombara the greater evil, he considered the daimons to be the greater threat. That doesn't mean he believed he should stop barking at people to behave the way he wanted them do. It should have been rather obvious to everyone that he was all bark no bite, though.

Other than your forgetting of key historic elements, the main point of disagreement is how Riombara constantly disassociates itself from various elements it had a part in by using scapegoats. "Whatever we did before was fine, because hey, Hvrek was a douche and we protested him out". Never apologized for what was done. And some of what was done, such as the attack on Lopa, was the result of all Riombarans working together, not just Hvrek. Riombara also didn't make any serious efforts at bringing his new realm down. When Meridian Republic used the monsters to help Riombara against Avalon and Enweil? "Wasn't us! It was them!". Except that, after banning the scapegoat Mordred, all key members of Meridian Republic joined Riombara without any sanction, some of them even became key members of Riombara's government. Not to mention that all of the Allurites had joined Riombara with the explicit intent of forming a colony allied to the monsters, and you let them come with open arms. When Katia was executed, Enweil had to protest and protest before Riombara apologized for breaking the treaty, a lot of Riombarans happy and supporting the judge's decision to execute her despite the agreements (as revealed by torture reports). Then, you just asked the judge to leave peacefully, and he went to an ally of yours. No ban, and that realm started figthing us not long afterwards. But hey, it wasn't Riombara's fault, obviously no reparations was necessary. Every time something like this happens, lots of Riombarans express their support for the scapegoat's actions. Every time, government members were involved either directly or indirectly. Every time, no serious effort to apologize and compensate for the injustice is done.

Riombara always disassociates itself from what its government does, after at most sacrificing a scapegoat. I don't believe in scapegoats, IC or OOC. No man acts in a vacuum, and people's power is only equal to the power others give them. Hvrek was the ruler. But Hvrek couldn't ban. Nor could he set travel for anyone else. A lot of the things he did were not only revealed on the ruler channel. More people knew. But Riombara's council as a whole supported Hvrek until it became clear that they couldn't support him anymore, at which point they let him fall. But you don't get to disassociate your realm from an elected government after you allow them to do all they want to.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Sacha on June 02, 2012, 05:02:46 PM
Nerd fight!
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Madigan on June 02, 2012, 05:56:15 PM
That might be the longest forum post I've seen in my life.

Nerd fight!

 ;D
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Penchant on June 02, 2012, 05:57:45 PM
That might be the longest forum post I've seen in my life.

 ;D
I think I saw one longer then that on here once.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Telrunya on June 02, 2012, 05:58:29 PM
And nothing new in it :P Same arguments as usual.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on June 02, 2012, 06:02:49 PM
And nothing new in it :P Same arguments as usual.

Of course not!

Something new would be heresy! We must keep repeating the same arguments over and over until our ears bleed!
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Telrunya on June 02, 2012, 06:08:23 PM
<put Riombara's side of the story here>

I didn't feel like writing such a long post ;D
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on June 02, 2012, 06:27:06 PM
<put Riombara's side of the story here>

I didn't feel like writing such a long post ;D

[retorts with Fheuv's side of the story]
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: mikm on June 02, 2012, 07:54:46 PM
Firbalt takeover was quite fast. I started to think the new takeover system is slow.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Indirik on June 02, 2012, 08:50:28 PM
We had priests influencing the peasants to dramatically raise sympathy before the TO even started. The region was quite willing to join us.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on June 03, 2012, 06:09:32 AM
We had priests influencing the peasants to dramatically raise sympathy before the TO even started. The region was quite willing to join us.

[insert allegation of daimon conspiracy]
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tan dSerrai on June 03, 2012, 10:40:00 AM
Chenier,

what are you triying to achieve right now (besides wanting to be 'right')? I am quite interested to find why exactly you are so hellbent to sow discontent between Enweil and Riombara...

Riombara /is/ helping Enweil - and has during all of the invasion. We have (once again) offered them aid in recapturing Fheuvenem, military aid, coordination, all without asking anything in return (despite the willingness to coordinate to some extent). We will continue to do so /despite/ whatever Miroslav or Guillaume are stating and will continue to state. We are well aware that nothing we do or say will change the mind of those two.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Arrakis on June 03, 2012, 10:44:21 AM
Give it up, guys. Chenier is arguing for the sake of arguing and that's it. :P And that has nothing to do what actually is or isn't the truth.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Indirik on June 03, 2012, 02:07:12 PM
And that's the truth!
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on June 03, 2012, 03:17:38 PM
And that's the truth!

[retort about the truth being on my side]
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Feylonis on June 04, 2012, 10:13:03 AM
The "who's fault is it" matters. You can blame the fault-er when Beluaterra sinks into the Blight :p
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: JPierreD on June 04, 2012, 10:16:34 AM
The "who's fault is it" matters. You can blame the fault-er when Beluaterra sinks into the Blight :p

Surely we'll have lots of time to discuss that when our souls become weapons and armors for Overlord :P
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Iltaran on June 04, 2012, 10:30:08 AM
Surely we'll have lots of time to discuss that when our souls become weapons and armors for Overlord :P

I want to be a pointy bit.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on June 04, 2012, 06:41:42 PM
So that could've gone better. :)

That's 75k CS that Overlord's 26k (in the beginning) unit has ripped through now. I have the distinct feeling it's going to get to 200k before it's over.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Thunthorn on June 04, 2012, 06:43:19 PM
Yes, but at least we are wearing him down a bit...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Marlboro on June 04, 2012, 07:09:35 PM
Yes, but at least we are wearing him down a bit...

Didn't we get him down to less than 380 last time and he just genocided his way back up to 440?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on June 04, 2012, 07:18:37 PM
Didn't we get him down to less than 380 last time and he just genocided his way back up to 440?

Pretty sure that he started with 500 or 550 daimons so... yay! Already killed 150-200! :P
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: mikm on June 04, 2012, 07:44:19 PM
Sint missed a perty big battle.  We will get there soon, I guess. ::)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on June 04, 2012, 08:01:26 PM
So that could've gone better. :)

That's 75k CS that Overlord's 26k (in the beginning) unit has ripped through now. I have the distinct feeling it's going to get to 200k before it's over.

Did I read it right that you guys spread out your infantry like that on purpose thinking you could do more damage that way? Out of curiosity, do you think it worked? Considering the impact of a double-charge from that daimon unit, I don't think it's a strategy I would try myself, but curious how you felt about it in comparison to the earlier battle.

It's also worth noting what happened to the cavalry there when the first line got annihilated. They totally whiffed.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Marlboro on June 04, 2012, 08:18:13 PM
Out of curiosity, do you think it worked?

No not really. We had a stronger force than last time and I think we actually made less of a dent. Important lesson learned, though.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on June 05, 2012, 02:00:44 PM
Annaej died, and there was much rejoicing.

But I forgot: getting stomped by the daimons = bad guy
Leading monster units to destroy human realms = good girl

Right.

:P
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Telrunya on June 05, 2012, 02:22:43 PM
Glad you're finally figuring it out ;D
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lefanis on June 05, 2012, 03:47:53 PM
But I forgot: getting stomped by the daimons = bad guy
Leading monster units to destroy human realms = good girl

If anything, the fifth invasion vindicates the choice of monster allies. The daimons were always the ones to beat.  :P

Anyway, not too many people noticed Annaej died.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Marlboro on June 05, 2012, 08:43:24 PM
Anyway, not too many people noticed Annaej died.

Her replacement vice-marshal sure as !@#$ did.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on June 05, 2012, 09:43:00 PM
Been a bit too busy with organizing stuff for rebuilding our force to really write something. That and exams.

But she'll definitely get some sort of memorial in Unger, whether it's a statue next to Fingolfin the Great or her name written on the final column right under that of King Piru Petteri... I haven't made up my mind yet.

P.S.: I kinda wish I'd started with this sooner so I could have all the names of the heroes that died last invasion too...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on June 05, 2012, 10:36:20 PM
You know I don't often agree with Chenier, but seriously? This is the same character who joined the Monsters during the Fourth Invasion and led a unit of them against human realms. And you want to build a statue of her? I can't even believe you let her join your realm in the first place; she is literally the traitor to humanity that Chenier's characters are so often accused of being.

Edit: Or does no one care because that realm was Enweil? Man, they have the worst PR of any realm I've ever seen... But you're still hypocrites.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Marlboro on June 05, 2012, 10:51:32 PM
My character is far too young to know about Annaej's sordid past, though she's served beneath her for the entirety of the invasion and, days before this last battle, inherited her position, so yeah she'd like to see a statue. Then again, war's not over; she may still wind up as one herself.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Gustav Kuriga on June 05, 2012, 10:51:54 PM
You know I don't often agree with Chenier, but seriously? This is the same character who joined the Monsters during the Fourth Invasion and led a unit of them against human realms. And you want to build a statue of her? I can't even believe you let her join your realm in the first place; she is literally the traitor to humanity that Chenier's characters are so often accused of being.

Edit: Or does no one care because that realm was Enweil? Man, they have the worst PR of any realm I've ever seen... But you're still hypocrites.

Now you know how I felt during the fourth invasion...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on June 05, 2012, 11:02:48 PM
Now you know how I felt during the fourth invasion...

Pff, I know how I felt during the Fourth Invasion. Damn Monsters...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: mikm on June 05, 2012, 11:06:56 PM
A lot of realms made deals with the invaders. It's not like we could have opose all three invaders.
But there is a difrence between them.
For instance Enweill sent troops to aid Riombara againts the monsters and i belive food too. We were redused to Grehk. True they made deals with the daimons but they aided us when they could.
The nobles of Meridian republic on the other had kept making promises over and over but did nothing. They stood there protected while were being beaten to a pulp. When the invasion was over they were welcomed back with open arms: "welcome back traitors ,we love you!" Realy hated that.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on June 05, 2012, 11:28:42 PM
A lot of realms made deals with the invaders. It's not like we could have opose all three invaders.
But there is a difrence between them.
For instance Enweill sent troops to aid Riombara againts the monsters and i belive food too. We were redused to Grehk. True they made deals with the daimons but they aided us when they could.
The nobles of Meridian republic on the other had kept making promises over and over but did nothing. They stood there protected while were being beaten to a pulp. When the invasion was over they were welcomed back with open arms: "welcome back traitors ,we love you!" Realy hated that.

To be fair, a lot of them only switched over to MR in the first place because the Duchies seceded. And a lot of the people we knew were conspirators in the original plot were dead or gone: Haethorne, Borin Athins, and Vellos. Khaludh was repentant and willing to bring his Duchy back (which was desperately needed) and then step down. D'Este... Well, not sure he deserved a full pardon but then again he didn't secede until later and then not because he was a supporter of Lefanis; his motivations in the matter were clear: Protect his city from being destroyed. Which he did successfully.

Of the others, we banned Mordred. Hylor Hobbs was allowed to return only so he could RP his character's suicide. Nigel De la Fere was allowed back, but that was a near thing. If Evander had had his way he would have been banned too, but I was a little too inactive at the time to make sure the Judge followed through. The only other one that I'm aware of is Ishimu, and I'd have liked to see him banned but wasn't willing to push the issue. All others were just knights or lords following their lieges so far as I know.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Telrunya on June 05, 2012, 11:32:37 PM
Khaludh also pushed for Nigel de Fere's banishment, heh.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on June 05, 2012, 11:33:11 PM
Annaej came to us and proved her worth. It's not often that we turn away nobles. Either way, she died fighting the daimons, that's worth something, whatever she did before. I mind give her a disgracing nickname if I build the statue or inscribe her name but that doesn't mean that her sacrifice shouldn't be acknowledged. I also built a statue for King Lemon Tree Two Face because he was the first King of Thalmarkin, even though he later seceded Sandefur to found Lemundia.

Anyway... maybe I'll never get to build another statue, looks like Overlord's coming for the skulls of his lieutenants.... :)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on June 05, 2012, 11:35:43 PM
Also, these goddamn horrors from overlord are an invasion on their own... :P
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on June 05, 2012, 11:42:40 PM
Also, these goddamn horrors from overlord are an invasion on their own... :P

No kidding...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: mikm on June 05, 2012, 11:58:30 PM
To be fair, a lot of them only switched over to MR in the first place because the Duchies seceded. And a lot of the people we knew were conspirators in the original plot were dead or gone: Haethorne, Borin Athins, and Vellos. Khaludh was repentant and willing to bring his Duchy back (which was desperately needed) and then step down. D'Este... Well, not sure he deserved a full pardon but then again he didn't secede until later and then not because he was a supporter of Lefanis; his motivations in the matter were clear: Protect his city from being destroyed. Which he did successfully.

Of the others, we banned Mordred. Hylor Hobbs was allowed to return only so he could RP his character's suicide. Nigel De la Fere was allowed back, but that was a near thing. If Evander had had his way he would have been banned too, but I was a little too inactive at the time to make sure the Judge followed through. The only other one that I'm aware of is Ishimu, and I'd have liked to see him banned but wasn't willing to push the issue. All others were just knights or lords following their lieges so far as I know.

I know the old I am only folowing my liege excuse. Still, they could have chosen to simply leave.
Those lands would have been destroyed by the daimons had the invasion continued anyway.
 
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lefanis on June 06, 2012, 06:18:23 AM
Woah. Lots of dead guys.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on June 06, 2012, 06:27:41 AM
Yeah, actually. Yuri Ishimu and Nigel De la Fere are the only ones still around...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lefanis on June 06, 2012, 06:28:59 AM
Nah, I mean in the battle in Unger.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Marlboro on June 06, 2012, 08:44:48 AM
Woah. Lots of dead guys.

Yeah who needs Mortality when you've got Heroes?

Kay got seriously wounded three times; that's gotta be some kind of record.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: OFaolain on June 06, 2012, 08:59:56 AM
Woah. Lots of dead guys.

I'm partial to the "Grant" method: when you've got a problem, just keep throwing men at it until it's either not a problem anymore or you run out of men.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Velax on June 06, 2012, 09:40:55 AM
I'm partial to the "Grant" method: when you've got a problem, just keep throwing men at it until it's either not a problem anymore or you run out of men.

Also known as the Brannigan Strategy.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on June 06, 2012, 10:57:51 AM
Damn it. You're reading the battle report and see that he's only got 40 of his 357 killer-horrors left at the end and then you check the region and find out he's actually got 220 left... bastards just won't die.

P.S.: Oh and this brings it to 110k CS that Overlord has ripped through. :)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Iltaran on June 06, 2012, 11:56:03 AM
Damn it. You're reading the battle report and see that he's only got 40 of his 357 killer-horrors left at the end and then you check the region and find out he's actually got 220 left... bastards just won't die.

So close and yet so very, very far  :-\
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Thunthorn on June 06, 2012, 01:24:46 PM
Losses for the horrors hava always been about 50% deaths and 50% wounds. Its about the same as for human troops really except that the wounded daimons all heal to the next battle.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on June 06, 2012, 01:51:37 PM
Losses for the horrors hava always been about 50% deaths and 50% wounds. Its about the same as for human troops really except that the wounded daimons all heal to the next battle.

Exactly. Basically, they don't have physical bodies. You can disrupt their forms enough that they can't continue fighting and need a while to reform themselves, which is what "wounded" indicates.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on June 06, 2012, 06:02:13 PM
Exactly. Basically, they don't have physical bodies. You can disrupt their forms enough that they can't continue fighting and need a while to reform themselves, which is what "wounded" indicates.

Grm... so all those skulls and bones we've gathered in Unger don't actually exist? :/

I think I'm going to keep them anyway, where's the fun in having nothing to show for your victories but your own soldiers' skulls and bones.. :P
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Marlboro on June 06, 2012, 06:19:09 PM
Welp, can't say I didn't see that coming.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on June 06, 2012, 06:21:08 PM
Quote
The heroine Benedicta Marlboro of Thalmarkin (Dame of Vore, Thalmarkin) was killed by Overlord 's unit.

I've got the feeling Overlord is after everyone ever to be Vice Marshal of my army... :(

So, who's next?  ;D
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lefanis on June 06, 2012, 06:28:58 PM
I've got the feeling Overlord is after everyone ever to be Vice Marshal of my army... :(

So, who's next?  ;D

Damn, too bad Kay got whacked thrice by Overlord's soulforged sword... I am getting the mental image of a guy crawling over to a lion to get mauled over and over and over, just to try and tire it out.

He'd have probably enjoyed baiting Overlord further  ;D

Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: mikm on June 06, 2012, 06:35:44 PM
I'm suprised there still troops left to throw at Overlord.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on June 06, 2012, 06:44:03 PM
I'm suprised there still troops left to throw at Overlord.

Well, the good news is that that unit he's leading is finally at a manageable size. If Thalmarkin can dig deep and pull off the same thing they did with Darkest Hour of the North, I think they've got a good shot. Especially if Fronen or Sint get in the game relatively soon.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Madigan on June 06, 2012, 06:47:21 PM
Welp, can't say I didn't see that coming.

You got a nice eulogy though - courtesy of the Bard. What more could a hero ask for?  ;D
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Indirik on June 06, 2012, 06:56:14 PM
Sint
Sint is lols...  ::)

I think there are three of us in Pomatim, one in Winifael, three more in Kell... Everyone else is back in Keffa or Daisha.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: mikm on June 06, 2012, 06:58:24 PM
Sint is lols...  ::)

I think there are three of us in Pomatim, one in Winifael, three more in Kell... Everyone else is back in Keffa or Daisha.
And I blieve one unit made it to Unger.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on June 06, 2012, 07:01:22 PM
Well, the good news is that that unit he's leading is finally at a manageable size. If Thalmarkin can dig deep and pull off the same thing they did with Darkest Hour of the North, I think they've got a good shot. Especially if Fronen or Sint get in the game relatively soon.

Unless you do it real soon and tell us that you will, I doubt it. We've been running on fumes since that first real battle against Overlord's forces, exhausting gold reserves and recruits. And it's not like we were overflowing with them before... it has taken a pretty big effort to maintain the standard force that we had after all of those battles.
We lost our 3d most important RC-region in Lastfell and now the 2nd most important one is being occupied by Overlord. We can still dig a little deeper but it's simply going to be impossible to do it on our own + what is left of Melhed's forces. So we'll see... at least you're right in that Overlord's forces are a little more manageable now. :)

120k CS has stood before him and fallen. :P

Sint is lols...  ::)

I think there are three of us in Pomatim, one in Winifael, three more in Kell... Everyone else is back in Keffa or Daisha.

Yeah... Sint pisses me off big time... But hooray for those that did come I suppose?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on June 06, 2012, 07:07:30 PM
I'm trying to start something in Fronen, but the realm is really hollow right now. There are maybe three active players in the entire realm, and I don't know about the others but Lucius is not on my front-burner right now. Other characters and realms are far more interesting.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: mikm on June 06, 2012, 07:12:47 PM
At least now Thalmarkin has a good reason to yell help. ;D
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on June 06, 2012, 07:14:30 PM
Yeah, as I understand the situation right now:

Sint: taking the scenic route.
Nothoi: fighting blight daimons
Fronen: sitting in Wudenkin
Old Grehk: refitting
Melhed: no sizable army left
Thalmarkin: Overlord in the capital

So... GG?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on June 06, 2012, 07:15:06 PM
At least now Thalmarkin has a good reason to yell help. ;D

Apparently we had a good reason to prod you lazies before too.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on June 06, 2012, 07:19:36 PM
Yeah, as I understand the situation right now:

Sint: taking the scenic route.
Nothoi: fighting blight daimons
Fronen: sitting in Wudenkin
Old Grehk: refitting
Melhed: no sizable army left
Thalmarkin: Overlord in the capital

So... GG?

Fronen doesn't even have much to contribute. The realm is in a shambles. Most of the realm is under shadow (making region maintenance a bitch, and reducing recruitment rates), and we have very few RCs left. We really need about three months of peace and no blight in order to get things up and running again.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Marlboro on June 06, 2012, 11:32:00 PM
The Cagilan Empire is even gonna make a contribution. *Cough.*
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Solari on June 07, 2012, 03:50:07 AM
We lost our 3d most important RC-region in Lastfell and now the 2nd most important one is being occupied by Overlord.

Which means two things:
We're doomed.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Turner on June 07, 2012, 07:31:42 AM
Yeah, as I understand the situation right now:

Sint: taking the scenic route.
Nothoi: fighting blight daimons
Fronen: sitting in Wudenkin
Old Grehk: refitting
Melhed: no sizable army left
Thalmarkin: Overlord in the capital

So... GG?

Guess its up to Old Grehk to come to the rescue then aye? :P
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on June 07, 2012, 02:13:07 PM
Guess its up to Old Grehk to come to the rescue then aye? :P

Can't wait for you guys to return! ;)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on June 07, 2012, 02:52:35 PM
The Cagilan Empire is even gonna make a contribution. *Cough.*

You have my attention. ;)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: mikm on June 08, 2012, 05:32:27 PM
It's so quit. Has Talmarkin given up?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on June 08, 2012, 05:43:11 PM
It's so quit. Has Talmarkin given up?

Hah! As if. :)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Marlboro on June 09, 2012, 01:05:21 AM
Tsk tsk, Benny's in the ground two days and the place is already going straight to hell!

Did that undead horde come over just to laugh at us?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Charles on June 09, 2012, 04:04:44 AM
Melhed is not out yet, we just need to rebuild most of our army...again...for the fourth or fifth time.  I would like to point out that we lost our army fighting in Thalmarkin soil.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Iltaran on June 09, 2012, 06:48:59 AM
The North is bleeding, but we're not out of this yet.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Marlboro on June 09, 2012, 07:05:10 AM
Hell yeah Red shows up to lead the Monsters and Undead into battle.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: mikm on June 09, 2012, 11:13:34 AM
Blight daimons pounded Sint reinforcements in Winafell.  :'(
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Iltaran on June 09, 2012, 11:45:00 AM
Yeah, that was nasty. I'd hoped that they'd be unable to move out of the Blight/Dark Clouds.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on June 09, 2012, 11:02:10 PM
Yeah, that was nasty. I'd hoped that they'd be unable to move out of the Blight/Dark Clouds.

For a long time, they were. But in case nobody noticed (though there were lots of in-game messages): There was a lot of magic being cast, for over a week.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Geronus on June 10, 2012, 12:16:53 AM
For a long time, they were. But in case nobody noticed (though there were lots of in-game messages): There was a lot of magic being cast, for over a week.

I haven't seen any messages :(
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Zakilevo on June 10, 2012, 12:33:00 AM
When did you do that? I didn't get any message...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on June 10, 2012, 12:57:05 AM
I've been sitting in Unger for ages with daimon lords circling around me (and then yes, sitting in my city :P) and haven't seen one message about magic. I thought those were sent to everyone in the vicinity?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on June 10, 2012, 09:38:41 AM
I've been sitting in Unger for ages with daimon lords circling around me (and then yes, sitting in my city :P ) and haven't seen one message about magic. I thought those were sent to everyone in the vicinity?

They are, but Unger does not border Mouzl or Bessimir.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Antonine on June 10, 2012, 08:12:55 PM
They are, but Unger does not border Mouzl or Bessimir.

See, this is what frustrates me - people not sharing things which are obviously important.

Any chance the invasion could be paused for a couple of months so Thalmarkin can hulk out and go and beat up the other human realms for being incompetent?  ;D
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on June 10, 2012, 09:27:17 PM
They are, but Unger does not border Mouzl or Bessimir.


Ah, I assumed Overlord and his older buddies would do the casting. :)

Any chance the invasion could be paused for a couple of months so Thalmarkin can hulk out and go and beat up the other human realms for being incompetent?  ;D

Mouzl and Bessimir sounds awefully close to us...  ;)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Antonine on June 10, 2012, 09:41:28 PM
Mouzl and Bessimir were more a reminder for me to be irritated at the behaviour of people during the invasion in general.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Noldorin on June 10, 2012, 10:36:21 PM
They are, but Unger does not border Mouzl or Bessimir.

I have been in Winifael for the last 6 days and I havent recieved any msgs about magic :/
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on June 10, 2012, 11:11:03 PM
I have been in Winifael for the last 6 days and I havent recieved any msgs about magic :/

There was that one message you got with Amrod when trying to RTO Bessmir though, but that's a long time ago. I suppose it took a while for blight daimons to overcome their fear of the sun.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Marlboro on June 10, 2012, 11:16:17 PM
Too bad we didn't pick up on all the hints, we could've sent our Grand Wizard out to counteract their dire magicks.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Noldorin on June 10, 2012, 11:17:37 PM
Hmm, I have no memory of it, but if you say so I suppose its possible :)

must have been a long while if so...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on June 10, 2012, 11:30:40 PM
Too bad we didn't pick up on all the hints, we could've sent our Grand Wizard out to counteract their dire magicks.

Yes. He would've scared them away with all of his fearsome magic!

Sometimes, Aurelius reminds me of the Warlock from Krod Mandoon.

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/5e44ffab22/meet-zezelryck-from-comedy-central-s-new-show-krod-mandoon-and-the-flaming-sword-of-fire (you'll see what I mean at 0.15)

Hmm, I have no memory of it, but if you say so I suppose its possible :)

must have been a long while if so...

Yeah, it was a while ago... When we first decided to try and RTO the unblighted regions I think. :)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on June 11, 2012, 01:12:15 AM
I have been in Winifael for the last 6 days and I havent recieved any msgs about magic :/

It was well before that. Three weeks ago? Something like that. My count was almost a dozen spells a day, for several days straight.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Madigan on June 11, 2012, 03:44:45 AM
Yes. He would've scared them away with all of his fearsome magic!

Sometimes, Aurelius reminds me of the Warlock from Krod Mandoon.

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/5e44ffab22/meet-zezelryck-from-comedy-central-s-new-show-krod-mandoon-and-the-flaming-sword-of-fire (you'll see what I mean at 0.15)

 "If we need to escape a matter"  ;D

Congratulations, this is now Aurelius. A perfectly serious and dull character ruined and turned into a shiftly charlatan that someone gave a position.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on June 11, 2012, 06:43:36 PM
Congratulations, this is now Aurelius. A perfectly serious and dull character ruined and turned into a shiftly charlatan that someone gave a position.

You're welcome! ;)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tan dSerrai on June 13, 2012, 10:34:02 AM
Battle against Midnight will happen this sunset in Mio Dupaki. 25.000 are marching - wish us luck.

I hate nailbiting. I honestly do.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Arrakis on June 13, 2012, 10:52:30 AM
If we can get the walls we might have a good chance to kill him.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tom on June 13, 2012, 12:06:36 PM
Battle against Midnight will happen this sunset in Mio Dupaki. 25.000 are marching - wish us luck.

I hate nailbiting. I honestly do.

Looking forward to it. It will be a slaughter, so much is for sure. Let's see who is still standing when the blood ebbs away and the smoke lifts.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on June 13, 2012, 12:21:02 PM
Looking forward to it. It will be a slaughter, so much is for sure. Let's see who is still standing when the blood ebbs away and the smoke lifts.

Well last time Midnight had almost 40k if I remember right, so I don't think it's looking very good for us. :)

Either way, these big battles are always fun. :)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tan dSerrai on June 13, 2012, 01:27:46 PM
We won't get the walls - Midnight will be the defender. We have a chance to kill Midnight - but if we don't then we'll very likely lose the battle. The difference being that in Rumannen we did attack with 17.000 against 40.000 and killed (after the wounded daimons were hale again) around 50 of 380 front daimons. We are now marching with 25.000 against 40.000 (again...sigh) but the front daimons number 'only' 330 now. I hope to be able to pemanently kill 100, hopefully more.

If not...well, I foresee being able to organize one more full battle before Midnight can enter the isles (assuming he continues to kill all in his path as he has been doing) but our recruitment and food situation continually worsens.

I am absolutely amazed at our current resilence. We lost around 20.000 in and around Rumannen, but managed to replenish our losses within a relatively short time. I /think/ that attacking with 25.000 might be the largest attacking force Riombara was ever able to throw into any single battle (anyone can confirm or deny this?). Practically every noble who is able to walk will be actually joining the upcoming battle - activity is darn good in Riombara.

We are definitely hearing the bells of doom here...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Antonine on June 13, 2012, 08:15:17 PM
Riombara - the Thalmarkin of the south.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on June 15, 2012, 12:59:12 PM
It is the time... for the Return of the king Hetman!

He will save all of your sorry asses.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tan dSerrai on June 15, 2012, 01:48:36 PM
We are...listening. /Carefully/ listening.  ::)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on June 15, 2012, 01:54:58 PM
Are you going to summon the Dead Men of Dunharrow or something?
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lefanis on June 15, 2012, 02:58:19 PM
More like the Haradrim came to their senses... hopefully.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tan dSerrai on June 15, 2012, 03:14:45 PM
I was thinking more on the lines of: 'Send your army towards the black gate - and I'll decide /then/ what I'll do with the ring....'
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on June 15, 2012, 03:16:56 PM
He needs an army first.

That said, having the ring would be sweet, let's use it!
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on June 17, 2012, 08:47:53 PM
Nothoi are a funny people.

Excerpt from their new Diadochi's letter to the rulers:

Quote
Many alliances made on paper but I haven't seen any greater military operation together. Let us start with it! Let our armies melt together and let them operate as one large force.

They're so funny, it's almost not funny.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Antonine on June 17, 2012, 09:46:31 PM
You know what? !@#$ it. I'm digging up King Arthur to save Battlemaster from it's darkest hour.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Iltaran on June 18, 2012, 09:01:12 AM
In other news, I've spent so long in Unger I now get suprised when I see the "because you're not in your own realm" message when doing diplomat actions.
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on June 18, 2012, 11:59:47 AM
In other news, I've spent so long in Unger I now get suprised when I see the "because you're not in your own realm" message when doing diplomat actions.

\o/ :)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Naidraug on June 18, 2012, 05:48:57 PM
Nothoi are a funny people.

Excerpt from their new Diadochi's letter to the rulers:

They're so funny, it's almost not funny.

Lol

I definitely can't turn my back on this realm...I just took a 7 days PTO on Netherworld's prison and this happens...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on June 18, 2012, 09:13:35 PM
Thalmarkin has lost 40k+ peasants since the daimons' little genocide campaign in our lands started... Time to implement the "steal peasants" looting option! ;)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tan dSerrai on June 18, 2012, 09:45:22 PM
Yeah, its rather gruesome to watch...especially having to withdraw after a battle, knowing that another 2-3 regions will be depopulated before we can do /anything/.

Riombara has lost 30.000 by now from Droxago to Mio Dupaki...and I guess at least another 5000 will be slaughtered before the next chance to fight Midnight does arrive. Though I do have hopes about the coming battle, we should have at least a chance to defeat his frontrow this time. The b+++ard still numbers around 35.000...
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on June 19, 2012, 06:20:04 PM
Big battle in Unger coming up tomorrow.

Should be 15k of Ovelord's uber-horrors against 40k behind level 3 walls.

I'm so excited.  ;D
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Tan dSerrai on June 19, 2012, 06:29:55 PM
More nailbiting. Thank you.

Send scouting reports, damn you!

And good luck.....go kill 'im!

(Riombara will engage Midnight in 2 days)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Lorgan on June 19, 2012, 07:32:29 PM
They should have been sent out now. :)
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Antonine on June 19, 2012, 09:24:58 PM
Death to daimonkind!
Title: Re: Fifth Invasion
Post by: Chenier on June 19, 2012, 11:01:12 PM
Death to daimonkind!

Death to Riombara!