BattleMaster Community
BattleMaster => Locals => Far East Island => Topic started by: DoctorHarte on January 12, 2012, 10:53:43 PM
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I wish! Except for Topenah revolting from Arcaea to Toupellon, little to nothing has happened on FEI. OW has turned into sheep herders of the badlands, feeding the
dirty cities of our neighbors. By night we duel each other in our duelist guild, a new creation of Duke Callandor II!
But really, little to do on FEI.
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According to the player of the crazy king who names himself after a flaming suicidal bird, untrue. Though also such a plan is going to be in the "future". Fate TBA.
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As I mentioned on the other thread...Quite a bit of this is my fault. All I can say in my defense is that if Arcaea can ever win the war, that will change very very rapidly. Obviously, if we lose, it'll likely change in a completely different direction, but that will be someone else's game then.
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OW has turned into sheep herders of the badlands, feeding the dirty cities of our neighbors. By night we duel each other in our duelist guild, a new creation of Duke Callandor II!
But really, little to do on FEI.
Not for the lack of options.
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Zonasa had something brewing before the holidays, but inactivity killed it unfortunately. We'll try and get it started up once more.
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It seems the calm has afflicted the forums too for FEI 8)
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Yep, but I am pretty sure that some people are going to miss such calm once that everything that is being cooked up just pops in front of the noses of everyone ;D
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I plan to continue frying chickens till I drop (and I can, since I'm a hero). Fried chicken will become an FEI phenomenon.
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I plan to continue frying chickens till I drop (and I can, since I'm a hero). Fried chicken will become an FEI phenomenon.
I expect you will deplete the chicken population before much longer.
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Since peasants reproduce like rabbits, I figured that would mean chickens reproduce like viruses. So, chickens will be around for a long time.
Then again, I bet it'd be a comedic death for Fred as a hero. Come to think of it, De-Legro, would you like to be Fred's executor? Meaning, you give out the last RP to all of Arcaea if and when Fred dies in battle. I figure it'd be lols to RP the chickens across the continent celebrating at the death of their nemesis Fred the Consumer.
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Since peasants reproduce like rabbits, I figured that would mean chickens reproduce like viruses. So, chickens will be around for a long time.
Then again, I bet it'd be a comedic death for Fred as a hero. Come to think of it, De-Legro, would you like to be Fred's executor? Meaning, you give out the last RP to all of Arcaea if and when Fred dies in battle. I figure it'd be lols to RP the chickens across the continent celebrating at the death of their nemesis Fred the Consumer.
We can do a RP exchange, that way if Carlos ever actually dies from being a Hero (something I've pretty much given up on) you can send his last RP. Have you considered that perhaps when Fred dies, the chickens will deep fry him?
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What comes around goes around, eh?
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What comes around goes around, eh?
If not real chickens, perhaps Arcachonians dress in chicken costumes.
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Now Carlos can finally die!.... or not...
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Now Carlos can finally die!.... or not...
It is the best chance he has had for a long long time. And his advy days are well behind him, so chances are his sword fighting has dropped a lot
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Update from OW: Our judge has gone mad and banned Lord Bart Simpson! For apparently not being a noble...
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That's nothing new. I OOC-banned a few people with names like that back in Lasanar's day.
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That's nothing new. I OOC-banned a few people with names like that back in Lasanar's day.
I kind of wish MORE judges would do this. Especially on Dwilight.
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I kind of wish MORE judges would do this. Especially on Dwilight.
Got OOC banned for cussing in Astrum a few years back. By the very same person who introduced me to the game - the Addonwy family. Anyways, we protested her out of office since our Prime Minister has been wounded after our first inter-realm tournament wounded about half of our nobles :P
I really wish training matches were online on FEI, this guild would be the perfect place to test out all of the nook and crannies of this feature. We have about 11 active members so far, I'm doing all I can to get the whole realm in one guild, though :D
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Got OOC banned for cussing in Astrum a few years back. By the very same person who introduced me to the game - the Addonwy family. Anyways, we protested her out of office since our Prime Minister has been wounded after our first inter-realm tournament wounded about half of our nobles :P
I really wish training matches were online on FEI, this guild would be the perfect place to test out all of the nook and crannies of this feature. We have about 11 active members so far, I'm doing all I can to get the whole realm in one guild, though :D
What did you do, use regular duel to first wound instead?
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What did you do, use regular duel to first wound instead?
Duel to surrender. There's only that and to the death which won't be had
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I kind of wish MORE judges would do this. Especially on Dwilight.
Thank you!
I'm moving that former judge to that continent where there can be no Bart Simpson, who is by the way related to Homer and Lisanna Simpson. Also, where nobles don't duel to surrender when there is no insult or offense involved, just because they are bored.
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Duel to surrender. There's only that and to the death which won't be had
I know that training duels haven't made it to stable, but using the other duelling options for sport is still not generally acceptable. Tom relented enough to create training duels specifically for duelling guilds and the like, but I don't think it appropriate to use duel to surrender on stable islands still.
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I know that training duels haven't made it to stable, but using the other duelling options for sport is still not generally acceptable. Tom relented enough to create training duels specifically for duelling guilds and the like, but I don't think it appropriate to use duel to surrender on stable islands still.
First time I've heard of this. I suppose it's because the loser usually gets wounded and when nobles with positions are involved, they lose the positions and sometime really screw up the realm.
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Actually, it was because dueling was not supposed to be taken lightly. It was meant to resolve matters like offenses or insults, to restore honour.
Dueling for a sport was only to be done at tournaments.
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I settle things with a death duel. I challenge people with a surrender duel to find out who is a better swordsman~
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I settle things with a death duel. I challenge people with a surrender duel to find out who is a better swordsman~
Obviously this is slightly out of date, since duelling guilds can now use the training option on testing islands. But rules from the wiki
"Duels serious affairs meant to be used to defend one's honor, and may result in character death. They are not for sport or fun. As such, dueling guilds are prohibited if they use game-mechanic duels. Dueling guilds using roleplayed duels are acceptable."
I'm not 100% sure where we stand with duelling on stable right now. It is annoying that a option exists on testing that allows for things like duelling guilds or duelling to determine the best swordsmen, but not on stable. Might be something to bring up with the magistrates I don't know.
My feeling is duelling to surrender should still only be used to sort out slights against ones honour.
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That statement on the wiki is ridiculous if you ask me. How can you justify saying something is perfectly fine if you RP it, but goes against the medieval atmosphere of the game If you use the game mechanic for it? That makes no sense.
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That statement on the wiki is ridiculous if you ask me. How can you justify saying something is perfectly fine if you RP it, but goes against the medieval atmosphere of the game If you use the game mechanic for it? That makes no sense.
It is possible to hold a "fake" duel while making certain that no one actually gets hurt - see LARPing for example. You can RP that.
However, that is not what the game mechanic duel does. Game mechanic duels are to hurt people. When you press that button, you are trying to kill your opponent. You can't press the button and then argue in a RP that you didn't really mean it.
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I thought you can't improve your skill through a training match. That is why I use duel to surrender as a way to improve swordfighting.
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I thought you can't improve your skill through a training match. That is why I use duel to surrender as a way to improve swordfighting.
That is ONE of the reasons that training matches DON'T improve swordfighting. Duels are for honour, not for for a cheap way to increase your sword fighting skill. If you are duelling for fun and skills using duel to surrender, I suggest you are abusing the system.
That statement on the wiki is ridiculous if you ask me. How can you justify saying something is perfectly fine if you RP it, but goes against the medieval atmosphere of the game If you use the game mechanic for it? That makes no sense.
Only because the mechanics for a fun or training match didn't exist at the time. The mechanics represented a serious duel over insults. If you wanted to have "fun" duelling or sport duelling, the RP's were the answer. Note this has changed at least on testing with the implementation of training matches. The rule also existed to prevent people from constantly duelling each other for skill gain
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That is ONE of the reasons that training matches DON'T improve swordfighting. Duels are for honour, not for for a cheap way to increase your sword fighting skill. If you are duelling for fun and skills using duel to surrender, I suggest you are abusing the system.
I suggest maybe the more sensible change is that simply change duels to not improve skill at all, rather than telling people not to use it for that.
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That is ONE of the reasons that training matches DON'T improve swordfighting. Duels are for honour, not for for a cheap way to increase your sword fighting skill. If you are duelling for fun and skills using duel to surrender, I suggest you are abusing the system.
Only because the mechanics for a fun or training match didn't exist at the time. The mechanics represented a serious duel over insults. If you wanted to have "fun" duelling or sport duelling, the RP's were the answer. Note this has changed at least on testing with the implementation of training matches. The rule also existed to prevent people from constantly duelling each other for skill gain
The dueling guild is set up to be held like a tournament, with a 250 gold prize, "champion of the duel" status, and each round nobles are eliminated. It does display honor and is not an abuse of the system. We also have a noble fro PoZ dominating the first tournament, Sir Moses. In a few weeks, Sasrhas will also be hosting her own tournament to invite other nobles to join our guild and share the opportunity. We are most certainly not abusing the system this way
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Only because the mechanics for a fun or training match didn't exist at the time. The mechanics represented a serious duel over insults. If you wanted to have "fun" duelling or sport duelling, the RP's were the answer. Note this has changed at least on testing with the implementation of training matches. The rule also existed to prevent people from constantly duelling each other for skill gain
There is a reason they are called "training matches", and have a completely separate page from duels.
They are not duels. They are a friendly bout of sword-sparring.
A duel is inherently over honour, and should not ever be treated as just a fun way to pass the time.
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The dueling guild is set up to be held like a tournament, with a 250 gold prize, "champion of the duel" status, and each round nobles are eliminated. It does display honor and is not an abuse of the system. We also have a noble fro PoZ dominating the first tournament, Sir Moses. In a few weeks, Sasrhas will also be hosting her own tournament to invite other nobles to join our guild and share the opportunity. We are most certainly not abusing the system this way
And, um...this is supposed to make it better how, exactly?
Tom has made it perfectly clear: Duels are not for sport. They are not for fun. They are not for finding out who's better. They are for resolving insults and matters of honour.
Why is this something Tom is adamant about? Because that's how duels were treated by medieval nobles.
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Anaris is spot on here. There was miles of difference between a duel and a tournament. 'A dueling guild set up like a tournament' is a contradiction -- if it's a tournament then it's a tournament, and duels have nothing to do with tournaments.
The point of a tournament is sport. The point of a duel is satisfaction.
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In a few weeks, Sasrhas will also be hosting her own tournament to invite other nobles to join our guild and share the opportunity. We are most certainly not abusing the system this way
I hope Far East doesn't get engulfed by a storm of tournaments, like EC did.
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The dueling guild is set up to be held like a tournament, with a 250 gold prize, "champion of the duel" status, and each round nobles are eliminated. It does display honor and is not an abuse of the system.
Yeah, it really is an abuse of the dueling system.
However, the large desire for a "swords for sport" option drove the implementation of the Training Match system. I highly recommend that you delay your "dueling guild" until the training match feature is implemented on stable islands. Using the dueling feature for sport is, without any doubt, an abuse of the feature. This type of abuse is why the "First Blood" option was removed.
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Why dont they...you know...host an actual tournament?
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Why dont they...you know...host an actual tournament?
Because then nasty, dirty people they don't like might actually be able to show up and participate.
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Thank you for this discussion about dueling. This was my point, but it's not exactly a point that could be made in character.
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Maybe now !@#$ can hit the fan. All the rulers of FEI are now fresh faced newbies. Time the status quo was shaken up. Perhaps Kindara now realises how boring playing PeaceMaster can get.
Whoa, just realised I used now thrice....
Now it's five times in all.. ::)
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Maybe now !@#$ can hit the fan. All the rulers of FEI are now fresh faced newbies.
Not...really. Morgan, ruler of PoZ, has been around for dog's years.
(Don't know much about the others; my PoZ character hasn't yet had much exposure to international politics)
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Toupellon's ruler, Claude, is a new account, but a returning player.
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Not...really. Morgan, ruler of PoZ, has been around for dog's years.
(Don't know much about the others; my PoZ character hasn't yet had much exposure to international politics)
I meant that it was their first time as ruler of their realm.
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Seeing that there is to be a duel to the death in Toupellon, Henzo sticks his head in and criticizes both parties for being idiots. Most have been sending comments disagreeing with him, but I've gotten one message that was sort of in support.
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In light of what has been said here, I have temp. stopped the guild and called off the tournament we were having early. The guild will be changed to reflect tournaments in someway until Training Matches make it to stable.
And I do plan to have a tournament in Sasrhas probably sometime in late feb to early march.
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I meant that it was their first time as ruler of their realm.
Actually not -- I was ruler of PoZ ages ago on my previous account.
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In light of what has been said here, I have temp. stopped the guild and called off the tournament we were having early. The guild will be changed to reflect tournaments in someway until Training Matches make it to stable.
And I do plan to have a tournament in Sasrhas probably sometime in late feb to early march.
Lol. But former crazy judge Brenda is already on Dwilight. :-P
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Lol. But former crazy judge Brenda is already on Dwilight. :-P
I see another Driscol in Nbasah...
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I hope Far East doesn't get engulfed by a storm of tournaments, like EC did.
Tournament Announced (38 minutes ago)
Kenshue Kazukin, Grand Exemplar of Greater Aenilia has announced a tournament of Joust and Swordfight to be held in Nahad 6 days from now.
The winner will be rewarded with 400 gold in addition to the honour and prestige that his victory will earn him. There will also be a reward of 100 gold for the second best.
All nobles of the continent are welcome on the tournament grounds on the day of this event. Make sure you announce your participation in time.
Your hopes may be crushed :(
Seeing that there is to be a duel to the death in Toupellon, Henzo sticks his head in and criticizes both parties for being idiots. Most have been sending comments disagreeing with him, but I've gotten one message that was sort of in support.
Let it happen! Toupellon needs it's first death duel; the blood that seals it as a true realm! :P
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Let it happen! Toupellon needs it's first death duel; the blood that seals it as a true realm! :P
Actually I'm stoking the fires a bit, and might get a death duel request myself. ^_^
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Doesn't really need much stroking. Selene and Ciann have hated each other for years, Ciann has literally worked to destroy both of Selene's realms she ruled, one of which she rampaged across herself.
Neither character is at all stable and they are both complete religious whackjobs who can't even concieve of losing to the other. It's just surprising it took this long to boil over.
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Selene and Ciann have hated each other for years, Ciann has literally worked to destroy both of Selene's realms she ruled, one of which she rampaged across herself.
Ciann and Ziode might get along then. Ziode doesn't like Selene all that much either. :P *Insert flashbacks to Neo Sartania and Nahad's secession from Aenilia*
Also, I wanted to comment on this.
Tournament Announced (38 minutes ago)
Kenshue Kazukin, Grand Exemplar of Greater Aenilia has announced a tournament of Joust and Swordfight to be held in Nahad 6 days from now.
The winner will be rewarded with 400 gold in addition to the honour and prestige that his victory will earn him. There will also be a reward of 100 gold for the second best.
All nobles of the continent are welcome on the tournament grounds on the day of this event. Make sure you announce your participation in time.
Your hopes may be crushed :(
Arya's had a good thousand gold or so for a while and wanted to contribute to something. Sorry to crush your dreams, but I didn't feel like filling up the family coffers, and aside from a couple of costs, pretty much funded that out of boredom.
Besides, aren't tournaments a good place to make enemies and stir some stuff up in the Far East? *nudge* *nudge* *wink* *wink*
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Heck, I have over 2k gold that I had been saving to try improving Batesaor's RCs . . . then they elected me ruler, so now I have nothing to do with it except hold a tourney. . . .
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Heck, I have over 2k gold that I had been saving to try improving Batesaor's RCs . . . then they elected me ruler, so now I have nothing to do with it except hold a tourney. . . .
Or you could, you know, give it to the lord of Batesaor to improve the RCs... Just sayin'...
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Well, true.
But I'll probably hold a tourney anyways.
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Well something's happening now :P Toupellon marches on Ohnar West or else on the terms that Duke Callandor II steps down as Duke and Banker. Hows that for "chivalry and honor" that Toupellon was based on? Oh and dare I mention the " King of patience" as mentioned on the wiki? Hah, Toupellon is none of these at this rate, just another big realm praying on the weak. Or some amateur players with too much power. Apparently the big 7-city realm is very very afraid of a badlands single-duchy realm. Hopefully this will spark a chain of declarations of war, though! I do look forward to some human battles (even if I do lose, it's all in good fun!)
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Yes, we're all amateurs who don't know what we're doing.
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Meow >:(
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You should be thankful, Harte. Normally you manage to get any realm you're a member of destroyed. At least Toupellon only want to get rid of you, not Ohnar West itself.
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A war with no territory conquest involved? I like it.
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In other news, some fun stuff going on in Zonasa. Religious uprisings, a Duke accused of treason . . . fun times.
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Well something's happening now :P Toupellon marches on Ohnar West or else on the terms that Duke Callandor II steps down as Duke and Banker. Hows that for "chivalry and honor" that Toupellon was based on? Oh and dare I mention the " King of patience" as mentioned on the wiki? Hah, Toupellon is none of these at this rate, just another big realm praying on the weak. Or some amateur players with too much power. Apparently the big 7-city realm is very very afraid of a badlands single-duchy realm. Hopefully this will spark a chain of declarations of war, though! I do look forward to some human battles (even if I do lose, it's all in good fun!)
See, this is what drives me crazy about the forums. Badmouthing another realm with a completely decontextualized and slanted account of events should not be what this supposedly OOC forum is for. It's one thing to discuss what is going on, another to insult the players of characters in a realm.
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In other news, some fun stuff going on in Zonasa. Religious uprisings, a Duke accused of treason . . . fun times.
Except it's so lopsided we can't get a real fight going, and the real international weight is likely to rapidly crush the conflict rather than let it really bloom into something beautiful and destructive.
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Except it's so lopsided we can't get a real fight going, and the real international weight is likely to rapidly crush the conflict rather than let it really bloom into something beautiful and destructive.
It's "lopsided" because the idiot who's being accused of treason is a guy with little political clout, head of a tiny little religion, who sent some vaguely threatening letters to multiple Lords, then auto-da-fe'd the Judge.
I'm really very surprised that Oradrikkon is supporting him. I thought that all the Velloses had at least some political sense. If he's not very, very careful, his (or, perhaps, his player's; I don't know Oradrikkon well enough outside this incident to be sure) love for chaos is going to be his downfall.
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It's "lopsided" because the idiot who's being accused of treason is a guy with little political clout, head of a tiny little religion, who sent some vaguely threatening letters to multiple Lords, then auto-da-fe'd the Judge.
1) Lighten up, man.
2) It's fun; Zonasa is boring as crap normally.
3) Vaguely threatening letters? As in, a priest sending super polite letters trying to engage interest from other players in the character's religion, providing plenty of information on the religion, giving the other character good reasons to possibly join it, etc. only to be ignored? Hell man, I guess I just suck at playing priests but for the life of me how else is a priest supposed to create any kind of interest in their religion? I had to message you like two or three times just to even get your character to respond. Again, I guess I just suck at it, but sheesh, I feel I'm not the worst BM player to ever play the game.
4) Again, basically I was bored out of my mind with Galen, tired of writing lengthy letters to everyone basically begging for someone to even respond to me about religion... argue with me, call me a heretic, ANYTHING. So, on the verge of deleting Galen, I was like ah what the heck lets try to at least make some fun.
5) It is painfully obvious no one in this game cares about religion until their precious titles are at risk (for, oh-no, two days!).
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1) Lighten up, man.
Apologies; it was intended with a light, sardonic tone, but that obviously translates poorly through text. You should see me when I'm annoyed (as Vellos has, many times) ;D
2) It's fun; Zonasa is boring as crap normally.
Granted.
3) Vaguely threatening letters? As in, a priest sending super polite letters trying to engage interest from other players in the character's religion, providing plenty of information on the religion, giving the other character good reasons to possibly join it, etc. only to be ignored? Hell man, I guess I just suck at playing priests but for the life of me how else is a priest supposed to create any kind of interest in their religion? I had to message you like two or three times just to even get your character to respond. Again, I guess I just suck at it, but sheesh, I feel I'm not the worst BM player to ever play the game.
If you didn't intend them to sound like thinly-veiled threats, you really must suck at it, because that's exactly what they sounded like :) As far as I recall, each one contained some reference to how the peasants were upset about their Lord not following Echad, or how Galen couldn't be responsible for what the peasants did, or something like that.
4) Again, basically I was bored out of my mind with Galen, tired of writing lengthy letters to everyone basically begging for someone to even respond to me about religion... argue with me, call me a heretic, ANYTHING. So, on the verge of deleting Galen, I was like ah what the heck lets try to at least make some fun.
I have no OOC problem with what Galen did. Like you, I think it's a welcome bit of fun. I just think it's silly for Vellos to be complaining that it's lopsided, when of course it's lopsided, given how it was started!
5) It is painfully obvious no one in this game cares about religion until their precious titles are at risk (for, oh-no, two days!).
This is not true at all. Baranion and Sigrún follow another religion, and aren't interested in the Church of Echad (and Sigrún was particularly insulted when Galen called her Gods false Gods).
I'm actually planning to found another religion on Beluaterra (yeah, I know, great place to found a religion, right? a continent that's probably about to sink? :P ), and I have hopes that people will actually find something in it that they like. You're welcome to bring someone to Riombara in the next week or so if you're interested in joining up; the information is already on the Wiki (http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Quintarianism) for your perusal.
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It's interesting the way different people interpret things. A Cathayan trader once sent my character and another duke letters about selling food. To me and everyone else in Kindara they were very obviously (not at all veiled) threats, and were eventually used as one of the reasons for going to war with Cathay. But apparently (so he says) the player of the trader did not intend to make threats at all.
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If you didn't intend them to sound like thinly-veiled threats, you really must suck at it, because that's exactly what they sounded like :) As far as I recall, each one contained some reference to how the peasants were upset about their Lord not following Echad, or how Galen couldn't be responsible for what the peasants did, or something like that.
Not threats, no. More like "hey here's a good RP reason to join my Church..." I guess if you really saw them as threats, I apologize. I was more just playing off the fact that I figured it was common knowledge peasants get antsy when their "local lord does not share the faith" or w/e.
I have no OOC problem with what Galen did. Like you, I think it's a welcome bit of fun. I just think it's silly for Vellos to be complaining that it's lopsided, when of course it's lopsided, given how it was started!
Oh, for sure. I don't mean to imply that I didn't know or expect things would be like this, either. Like I said, it was basically a "let's see where Galen ends up" kind of thing, since I was strongly considering deleting him. I think Vellos perhaps was more just complaining about how sometimes people want fun/action to happen, and then something as ridiculous as this happens and everyone just jumps on the "Oh, yeah that's dumb and a bad guy" bandwagon and "1, 2, 3" the guy is dealt with all back to normal.
For instance, Oradrikkon has found a way to stimulate the conflict while remaining fairly neutral and appearing to simply just be seeking justice/fairness. He has condemned Galen multiple times, but has merely not jumped on (and resisted) Sigrún's witch-hunt bandwagon.
This is not true at all. Baranion and Sigrún follow another religion, and aren't interested in the Church of Echad (and Sigrún was particularly insulted when Galen called her Gods false Gods).
Well that's good to know, I wish either of them would have bothered to even tell Galen that. I understand maybe, as characters, they just didn't want "give Galen the respect or the time" but as a player all I'm left with is people not responding to me, so I'm just like "well, this is no fun."
I mean, I literally sent a letter asking Sigrún is she was Order of the Elders and she never responds. Galen literally was never of informed of her being Order of the Elders until she started talking about it after the auto de fa! And if she was insulted by Galen calling her gods false, well geez I wish she would have called him out on it! Call him a liar or a heretic or ban him from preaching in Razrpot, something!
I'm not trying to complain here or tell people they're "playing their characters wrong," just trying to explain how, on my end, I literally had nothing to go with simple because I was being ignored 90% of the time (and not just Baranian or Sigrun, either. Galen attempted to talk to lots of others, most ignore him :P
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It's "lopsided" because the idiot who's being accused of treason is a guy with little political clout, head of a tiny little religion, who sent some vaguely threatening letters to multiple Lords, then auto-da-fe'd the Judge.
I'm really very surprised that Oradrikkon is supporting him. I thought that all the Velloses had at least some political sense. If he's not very, very careful, his (or, perhaps, his player's; I don't know Oradrikkon well enough outside this incident to be sure) love for chaos is going to be his downfall.
Oh, I fully get that. And Oradrikkon has no love for Duke Galen, who he basically views as some kind of country bumpkin with a backwards and fanatical faith. But Oradrikkon's reasons for getting involved IC are pretty clear for anybody who knows the recent history between him and Sigrun. Oradrikkon is a very petty person.
Ultimately, I don't think this incident will reduce Oradrikkon's political power. There are ways Oradrikkon could be knocked out of power quite easily, but this dispute won't accomplish that at all. If anything, it has the potential to make him more powerful, depending on who ends up angry at who by the end of it.
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Oh but, from an OOC perspective... Zonasa is boring as !@#$. As a player, I'm about to start randomly looting Kindaran towns just to try and start something. The only realm I am in with any character that has any visible drama before this incident in Zonasa was Terran. All Zonasa did before this was argue about whether Moses was polite enough. And, even then, Moses actually had a pretty darn good RPed setup for conflict, what with the whole duel challenge thing. I was bummed that avenue for excitement and politicking has also been shut down.
If Zonasa is boring, it isn't because there have been no good opportunities to start something. It's because of a concentrated effort by its leadership to make sure that nothing ever happens. Heck, I systematically starved a city for, like, 3 seasons, and publicly said so, and all I ever got was a few angry glances.
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Ultimately, I don't think this incident will reduce Oradrikkon's political power. There are ways Oradrikkon could be knocked out of power quite easily, but this dispute won't accomplish that at all. If anything, it has the potential to make him more powerful, depending on who ends up angry at who by the end of it.
Not to mention his political power stems from being banker and basically sole orchestrator of Zonasa not completely starving all the time... and no one else seems to care/want to do that job.
If Zonasa is boring, it isn't because there have been no good opportunities to start something. It's because of a concentrated effort by its leadership to make sure that nothing ever happens. Heck, I systematically starved a city for, like, 3 seasons, and publicly said so, and all I ever got was a few angry glances.
LOL
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If Zonasa is boring, it isn't because there have been no good opportunities to start something. It's because of a concentrated effort by its leadership to make sure that nothing ever happens. Heck, I systematically starved a city for, like, 3 seasons, and publicly said so, and all I ever got was a few angry glances.
There were people that were fairly angry with you about that. Morgan had to do a bit of talking to people to make sure it stayed only angry glances . . . because honestly, though he would never say so in public, Morgan actually thought Oradrikkon was doing the right thing. That's part of Morgan's political strategy -- keep people around who do the things you want, but that you can't publically say you want -- and a large part of why Oradrikkon isn't likely to lose his position soon, even though he's been getting some pressure recently to try and get rid of him.
As far as nothing happening . . . well, it's a constant balancing act between doing what makes sense IC and trying to keep things interesting . . . Moses would have been banned a while ago if not for the fact that I think OOC that he makes the realm more interesting. There are opportunities to start things, I think, you just have to not be stupid about it.
Hopefully this should get our blood flowing again and activity will pick up, even after the current business is done. And hopefully we'll have a war soon . . . working on that angle.
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It's interesting the way different people interpret things. A Cathayan trader once sent my character and another duke letters about selling food. To me and everyone else in Kindara they were very obviously (not at all veiled) threats, and were eventually used as one of the reasons for going to war with Cathay. But apparently (so he says) the player of the trader did not intend to make threats at all.
That was fun, I had almost forgotten about it. Oh man, I really, really miss the days when I had so much free time that I could do this kind of things. University has been killing my battlemasterish soul for the last months ;D
Now seriously, seriously, I didn't intend to sound threatening or something like that. It is just that the character was originally thought as a damn bastard and a rude noblemen with little idea of politics and less care for the polite treatmet. But meh, the republican system of Ohnar West is making him a pussy. If everything continues this way, he might even end vomiting rainbows and sweating perfum all over his way.
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The title of this thread should be Calm before the Calmer.
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^
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The title of this thread should be Calm before the Calmer.
Yup. Damn peace keeping elements, destroyed three potential wars which could have been awesome.
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The title of this thread should be Calm before the Calmer.
Everyone's just waiting for me to come back, admit it.
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Everyone's just waiting for me to come back, admit it.
We are! When are you coming back?
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We are! When are you coming back?
I'm hoping, planning, expecting, and praying this summer.
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I'm hoping, planning, expecting, and praying this summer.
We should all hope and pray for your return :D
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Yup. Damn peace keeping elements, destroyed three potential wars which could have been awesome.
I think it's less the peacekeeping elements, and more the internet troubles of the Zonasan ruler (who Kindara and probably Aenilia were waiting on to lead an attack) and the dissolution of Toupellon that forestalled the expected war. I imagine there'll be something coming soon, though.
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I'm hoping, planning, expecting, and praying this summer.
Don't forget to throw in a dash of bribery, threat and downright underhandedness while you at it, as we are taking about Jenrad after all remember :)
I think it's less the peacekeeping elements, and more the internet troubles of the Zonasan ruler (who Kindara and probably Aenilia were waiting on to lead an attack) and the dissolution of Toupellon that forestalled the expected war. I imagine there'll be something coming soon, though.
Yeah his Internet problems have prevented us in Zonasa from really being able keep up with what 's been going on for while, in fact even as it's general I'm near enough totally in the dark about things.
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Sorry our plans to tear apart Toupellon from the inside spoiled your plans to tear it apart from the outside. :)
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Don't forget to throw in a dash of bribery, threat and downright underhandedness while you at it, as we are taking about Jenrad after all remember :)
The amusing thing to me is that Jenred sees himself as a very straightforward guy who dislikes scheming, plots, and deviousness. The fact that he's had to engage in them almost constantly made him very, very annoyed. He far prefers just riding out at the head of the army and slaughtering things.
Then again, he's kinda turned into the living avatar of "the ends justify the means"...
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Then again, he's kinda turned into the living avatar of "the ends justify the means"...
Ehhhh....not really. If that were the case he wouldn't have given a !@#$ about looting methods or burning food. Instead we were hamstrung for ages, restricted to looting tax gold and stealing food. We would have won the southern war much faster if we'd been plundering Aenilia's lands the whole time, for example.
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Ehhhh....not really. If that were the case he wouldn't have given a !@#$ about looting methods or burning food. Instead we were hamstrung for ages, restricted to looting tax gold and stealing food. We would have won the southern war much faster if we'd been plundering Aenilia's lands the whole time, for example.
Because you mistake the means for an end. One of Jenred's "ends" is island-wide rules of warfare that are more restrictive than even the Order of the Hawk envisioned. The problem is that he has multiple ends, most of which support each other in the endgame, but getting to all of the ends is...Difficult.
I think you also underestimate how badly Zonasa, Aenilia, and Kindara could have hurt Arcaea if they stopped dicking around in Larmebsi and went for the western regions looting with a vengeance.
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Perhaps, but their inability to organise themselves had little to do with Arcaea's self imposed looting restrictions. You always did seem to underestimate Arcaea's military ability.
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Perhaps, but their inability to organise themselves had little to do with Arcaea's self imposed looting restrictions. You always did seem to underestimate Arcaea's military ability.
The latter is certainly true. I don't think Jenred ever stopped seeing Arcaea as the underdog, beset on all sides by innumerable foes.
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Yeah his Internet problems have prevented us in Zonasa from really being able keep up with what 's been going on for while, in fact even as it's general I'm near enough totally in the dark about things.
Yeah, this could not have come at a worse time, really. Luckily I now have a working computer to use, though logging in to BM is still problematic -- have e-mailed Tom to try and sort that out, and will be on at least some over the next few days. Hopefully we can get conflict going again, though Toupellon falling apart from the inside has made it much harder for Morgan to press for a war without seeming like the bad guy.
Perhaps, but their inability to organise themselves had little to do with Arcaea's self imposed looting restrictions. You always did seem to underestimate Arcaea's military ability.
Some of that may be due to organizational failures, but a large part is also that Zonasa imposes those same looting restrictions on ourselves . . . and sometimes on our allies as well.
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Some of that may be due to organizational failures, but a large part is also that Zonasa imposes those same looting restrictions on ourselves . . . and sometimes on our allies as well.
Not really sure of the relevance of that. Aside from Larmebsi, which was taken and then virtually destroyed very early in the war, Zonasa never had the chance to loot any Arcaean regions. I was General of Kindara at the time, and we acted purely defensively, so also no chance to loot. Aenilia looted Lasop once, with two units, early in the war, and they looted...Hupar, I think, once, early in the war. After the initial phase of the war, none of the southern realms had much chance to loot any Arcaean regions.
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Some of that may be due to organizational failures, but a large part is also that Zonasa imposes those same looting restrictions on ourselves . . . and sometimes on our allies as well.
And every time Jenred heard about that happening, he smiled a little, because he remembered when Zonasa was otherwise.
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Noble banned! (7 hours, 56 minutes ago)
Duregal Lapallanch, Minister of Justice of Ohnar West has declared Jatha Cyrith, Duke of Ossaet, Duke of Ossaet an enemy of the realm and will issue a ban on him shortly. He has given the following reason:
For conspiring against the republic of Ohnar West.
I'm hoping Sorraine gets riled up about this since Duke Jatha was planning on changing Ossaet's allegiance to Sorraine once he had the option again.
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Noble banned! (7 hours, 56 minutes ago)
Duregal Lapallanch, Minister of Justice of Ohnar West has declared Jatha Cyrith, Duke of Ossaet, Duke of Ossaet an enemy of the realm and will issue a ban on him shortly. He has given the following reason:
For conspiring against the republic of Ohnar West.
I'm hoping Sorraine gets riled up about this since Duke Jatha was planning on changing Ossaet's allegiance to Sorraine once he had the option again.
I want some war!
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I want some war!
Funny thing that you and the Prime Minister get all the bad rep for making that decision when you didn't do much except carry out the ban (to my knowledge)
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Me'Ho'Chang'A'Rang deserves all he bad rep he can get.
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Funny thing that you and the Prime Minister get all the bad rep for making that decision when you didn't do much except carry out the ban (to my knowledge)
Well sometimes doing your job can get you into a mess :( I am too busy with other characters at the moment I am barely writing any long letters with Duregal.
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Well sometimes doing your job can get you into a mess :( I am too busy with other characters at the moment I am barely writing any long letters with Duregal.
I am back now ;D time to shake stuff up.
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I am back now ;D time to shake stuff up.
About time 8)
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I am back now ;D time to shake stuff up.
Yes, do something, i was about to declare Religious State and Auto da fe around the continent, MAE have presence in all regions on the continent, would be great to put in good use my skills.
Peace!
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Yes, do something, i was about to declare Religious State and Auto da fe around the continent, MAE have presence in all regions on the continent, would be great to put in good use my skills.
Peace!
Talk to me later, you'll have an opportunity.
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Talk to me later, you'll have an opportunity.
Oh dear, should I be bailing Galen out just so Zonasa has priests to fight back with?
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... Ohnar certainly isn't the place it was when they had to hunt around for a duke and give it to the newbie.
Yes, do something, i was about to declare Religious State and Auto da fe around the continent, MAE have presence in all regions on the continent, would be great to put in good use my skills.
Don't let me hold you up... There is a big sign on Topenah. ;D
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... Ohnar certainly isn't the place it was when they had to hunt around for a duke and give it to the newbie.
Yeah, it's really gone downhill since then...
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Has it ever.
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Yeah, it's really gone downhill since then...
Yeah.. Ohnar went so down that she actually came up on the other side.
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I really hope Morgan trying to be the voice of reason doesn't actually convince anyone to be reasonable.
Actually, he hopes it doesn't convince anyone, either, which is why he's being somewhat half-hearted about it.
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I really hope Morgan trying to be the voice of reason doesn't actually convince anyone to be reasonable.
Actually, he hopes it doesn't convince anyone, either, which is why he's being somewhat half-hearted about it.
Why even do it?
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Why even do it?
+1
Yeah, don't hold up war :)
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+1
Yeah, don't hold up war :)
Pft! Like /his/ words are going to stop Sorraine. Instead, they've given us useful tactical information, as we can definitely expect their armies coming up north. Hopefully Cathay can be recreated a.s.a.p. Wouldn't be a real world war without the guy in the middle.
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...soon as Galiard's done convincing the bureaucrats that he's "familiar enough with Anacan" to secede!
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Why even do it?
To keep up appearances. And because it's in character for him to at least make some attempt.
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There's too many people trying to huddle in the middle and not show their hands for a real war to break out. Arella's trying to do what she used to do oh so well- force people to polarize so the haze becomes clearer.
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Yeah, it's really gone downhill since then...
It's better than before, when no one really cared about much to do with anything.
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Yeah, but... look who you elected as ruler... embarrassing.
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Oh dear, should I be bailing Galen out just so Zonasa has priests to fight back with?
Yes.
By arresting him you've just effectively killed everything remotely fun or interesting in Zonasa.... :-\
Back to silence and half starving cities. *sigh* why does Zonasa run off every single interesting character?
Not to mention that was the biggest sham of a boring trial I've ever seen in BM; in retrospect I'm not even sure why we bothered with the drawn out charade.
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Right, because there's no chance of anything else coming along once we put this whole sordid affair behind us.
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Sadly I did not log on in time to stop the arrest, I was rather hoping that you might take Haul to Toupellon or something and give us a good cause for war . . . well, and Morgan just didn't want that sort of disorder, but it seems like it was not to be avoided.
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Right, because there's no chance of anything else coming along once we put this whole sordid affair behind us.
*shrug* Sure, but I was there quite a while before this whole thing with not much action...
Sadly I did not log on in time to stop the arrest, I was rather hoping that you might take Haul to Toupellon or something and give us a good cause for war . . . well, and Morgan just didn't want that sort of disorder, but it seems like it was not to be avoided.
Even if I was planning on that, I would've at least waited until the damn trial ended! Feels like the whole Tribunal was a freaking waste of time now since they just up and arrested me before the thing was even over. Didn't even get a chance to deliver my closing defense!
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*shrug* Sure, but I was there quite a while before this whole thing with not much action...
Even if I was planning on that, I would've at least waited until the damn trial ended! Feels like the whole Tribunal was a freaking waste of time now since they just up and arrested me before the thing was even over. Didn't even get a chance to deliver my closing defense!
Poor Perth. Come to OW :)
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Poor Perth. Come to OW :)
Haha, I'm not too poor, it is all pretty self-inflicted ::)
From the looks of things, Galen will likely end up somewhere else, though.
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I think you also underestimate how badly Zonasa, Aenilia, and Kindara could have hurt Arcaea if they stopped dicking around in Larmebsi and went for the western regions looting with a vengeance.
Until Zonasa rolled up with every noble glaze-eyed for gold and showed that they had no idea how to attack a city. Wow. Been a while since I remembered that.
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If Zonasa hadn't rolled up, there wouldn't be an Aenilia anymore.
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Even if I was planning on that, I would've at least waited until the damn trial ended! Feels like the whole Tribunal was a freaking waste of time now since they just up and arrested me before the thing was even over. Didn't even get a chance to deliver my closing defense!
Sigrún and Baranion, at the least, were very much convinced, from Galen's behaviour, that he was just going to run—that he would never let there be even the slightest chance that he could be sentenced and the sentence carried out.
Sigrún was sick of your shenanigans and disrespect for the authority of her office. She ordered you arrested because you refused to comply with the order to come in.
If you'd wanted to stay in the game, you shouldn't have thrown your chips in her face ;D
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Now, I normally don't check these forums much, but some of this stuff is getting too absurd to stay silent.
The tribunal is deliberating to reach a verdict, there was never going to be a closing defense.
As for why we bothered with this drawn out affair, I've wondered the same thing. I believe it has something to do with some people complaining that I couldn't just order a Duke arrested simply because I had seen him commit the crime myself. I mean, pah, since when has the truth ever had anything to do with guilt or innocence.
Please, pretty please, drop the charade. Every day you've had since the auto da fe was on borrowed time as you know. The only reason I suggested the idea of a tribunal was because I thought it might be fun. Instead, it turned into an endless troll-parade from three characters who are very fond of acting hurt when anybody calls them on their transparent lies and who keep insisting that a Judge who's been elected twice with a massive majority in the elections must be horribly, abominably corrupt.
Of course Sigrún had you arrested. What did you think was going to happen? She was quite clear, you were going to face the verdict whether you wanted to or not. She's been tired of the shenanigans for a while now, and she's also quite aware that priests are slippery little bastards who can be half way to Masahakon by the time the guard realises he's gone. As for the intended sentence, she did mention that at the beginning of the tribunal. The charge is a capital crime.
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I hate IC "trials". They are never a good idea.
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I hate IC "trials". They are never a good idea.
Oh, believe me, we know. This is, what, the third trial we've been part of? :P
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I don't mind IC trials. I never understand why anybody would then come argue the same case in an OOC forum. Or justify anything their characters do on a forum, for that matter. Just seems to make it more 'player v player' and less 'character v character'
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The problem with IC trials is that everything is pure fabrication. There is never any definitive proof or hard evidence. And everyone knows that. So everyone knows exactly what their verdict will be before anything ever even starts. Every one I've ever seen has been a complete sham. The only thing that could ever get decided is wrangling over the sentence.
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Sigrún and Baranion, at the least, were very much convinced, from Galen's behaviour, that he was just going to run—that he would never let there be even the slightest chance that he could be sentenced and the sentence carried out.
Sigrún was sick of your shenanigans and disrespect for the authority of her office. She ordered you arrested because you refused to comply with the order to come in.
If you'd wanted to stay in the game, you shouldn't have thrown your chips in her face ;D
Disrespect for the authority of her office? Galen is sick of her disrespect of the authority of her office. I would dispute what authority a Judge has to simply order a Duke around at will. It is not as if Galen has been declared guilty yet. Based on this, she authority to tell every Duke of the realm where they should be at all times, and if they do not comply, they should be arrested.
Also, in my own defense, until today I never even got to see the order to come to Zonasa. I replied to the Regent's polite request. When I next logged in I was arrested and so never saw all of the stuff with where Sigrún so politely corrected her Regent's request into an order. I honestly never had the chance to come in.
As for why we bothered with this drawn out affair, I've wondered the same thing. I believe it has something to do with some people complaining that I couldn't just order a Duke arrested simply because I had seen him commit the crime myself. I mean, pah, since when has the truth ever had anything to do with guilt or innocence.
You're attitude about this whole thing has been very OOC. You act like just because, OOC, we all know that Galen caused the auto de fa (and by that I mean, I hit the button), that it is pure IC fact that nobody should have reason to doubt. That isn't the case. Galen and Sigrún were the only noble witnesses, and it took place way up on a freaking mountain. It is COMPLETELY disputable.
Please, pretty please, drop the charade. Every day you've had since the auto da fe was on borrowed time as you know. The only reason I suggested the idea of a tribunal was because I thought it might be fun. Instead, it turned into an endless troll-parade from three characters who are very fond of acting hurt when anybody calls them on their transparent lies and who keep insisting that a Judge who's been elected twice with a massive majority in the elections must be horribly, abominably corrupt.
You almost sound like you aren't trying to play Sigrún as corrupt. She is. She is vengeful and power hungry, clearly. Which is fine, she is a powerful character in Zonasa and nobody has the gusto to stick up to her, not even the Regent. But I'm worried now that you make it sound like you aren't trying to play her that way.
Also, the reason there are only about three characters who speak against Sigrún is because there are only like 6 or 7 vocal players period in Zonasa, of which only about 5 give a crap about this trial. :P
She was quite clear, you were going to face the verdict whether you wanted to or not.
And you still insist Sigrún isn't vengeful or corrupt?
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You're attitude about this whole thing has been very OOC. You act like just because, OOC, we all know that Galen caused the auto de fa (and by that I mean, I hit the button), that it is pure IC fact that nobody should have reason to doubt. That isn't the case. Galen and Sigrún were the only noble witnesses, and it took place way up on a freaking mountain. It is COMPLETELY disputable.
So because the Judge—the Judge, mind you, the one whose house you burned down and whose servants you murdered—is the only one aside from your character who saw it with their own eyes, we should all doubt that it really happened.
Riiiiight.
I would bet you that if you asked 100 BattleMaster players, "Hey, if you auto-da-fe-ed the Judge, do you think it would make sense for you to get off scott-free?", 99 of them would say, "Are you frigging nuts? You'd get banned, if not executed!"
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TORTURE HIIIIM! ;D
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The reason I sound like I'm not playing her as corrupt is because I'm not, and she isn't.
Vengeful? Sure, I'll concede vengeful, that trait runs in the family. Old Quinn's held grudges for decades, and Drystan isn't a whole lot nicer. Sigrún hasn't had time to develop grudges yet, but some people are getting there.
But corrupt? No, I fail to see corrupt, and I find the suggestion to be absurd.
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So because the Judge—the Judge, mind you, the one whose house you burned down and whose servants you murdered—is the only one aside from your character who saw it with their own eyes, we should all doubt that it really happened.
Riiiiight.
I would bet you that if you asked 100 BattleMaster players, "Hey, if you auto-da-fe-ed the Judge, do you think it would make sense for you to get off scott-free?", 99 of them would say, "Are you frigging nuts? You'd get banned, if not executed!"
That isn't what I'm arguing. I've said multiple times that I don't expect to not be banned, etc. Of course that will happen. All I am saying is that in a realm where the perception of "fair" in the justice system is thrown around, Sigrún has been anything but.
But corrupt? No, I fail to see corrupt, and I find the suggestion to be absurd.
So you're telling me that the accuser in a trial acting as the arbiter of the trial is not corrupt? That a Judge insisting that she has the power to order a Duke's physical whereabouts around and them arresting them after a few hours is not corrupt? That having your nepotistic cronies' in position to perform the arrest is not corrupt?
What?
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That isn't what I'm arguing. I've said multiple times that I don't expect to not be banned, etc. Of course that will happen. All I am saying is that in a realm where the perception of "fair" in the justice system is thrown around, Sigrún has been anything but.
So...what, exactly, did you expect to happen?
Did you expect that we would have to prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that Galen had acted with murderous intent?
Did you expect that all the BS about people getting different reports would be taken seriously by the court?
If so, then you've been watching too many of the wrong cop shows. Even in a modern US court, that crap wouldn't fly.
So you're telling me that the accuser in a trial acting as the arbiter of the trial is not corrupt?
That's your own stupid fault for attacking the Judge.
That a Judge insisting that she has the power to order a Duke's physical whereabouts around and them arresting them after a few hours is not corrupt?
If you stop thinking of him as "a Duke" and start thinking of him as "a confessed criminal who has already refused to appear before the court," you might see things a little differently.
That having your nepotistic cronies' in position to perform the arrest is not corrupt?
That's not corruption, that's just good sense and good preparation.
And by the way, one of those "nepotistic cronies" is a Duchess who has been in the realm since long before Baranion and Sigrún, so I wonder how you think we suborned her?
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So...what, exactly, did you expect to happen?
Did you expect that we would have to prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that Galen had acted with murderous intent?
Did you expect that all the BS about people getting different reports would be taken seriously by the court?
If so, then you've been watching too many of the wrong cop shows. Even in a modern US court, that crap wouldn't fly.
What? It only doesn't fly if you are acting on your OOC knowledge that one is false and one is true. How would a character who wasn't there know the difference?
That's your own stupid fault for attacking the Judge.
Again, I never said it wasn't my fault. I said it wasn't justice.
If you stop thinking of him as "a Duke" and start thinking of him as "a confessed criminal who has already refused to appear before the court," you might see things a little differently.
1) I wasn't given enough time to even reach Zonasa.
2) He is a Duke, who as of right now has not been pronounced guilty of anything. Furthermore, when the hell did he confess to being a criminal?
3) You mean the same court that the REGENT already came and said nobody had to actually be there it could be done through letters? By this logic, every single Duke involved in the trial who isn't in Zonasa is in contempt of court.
That's not corruption, that's just good sense and good preparation.
And by the way, one of those "nepotistic cronies" is a Duchess who has been in the realm since long before Baranion and Sigrún, so I wonder how you think we suborned her?
Hm, oh I don't know, they're close friends whom one of the Judge's family members has a very long RP with spending tons of time with her upon her death bed? Or they share a religion?
Besides, she didn't arrest me. The Judge's brother did.
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Why is this argument on the forums and not in the game? Isn't everything you're talking about IC anyways?
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What? It only doesn't fly if you are acting on your OOC knowledge that one is false and one is true. How would a character who wasn't there know the difference?
This is actually a philosophical argument within BattleMaster that I've seen crop up a number of times. Before I get deep into it, let me just say: No, we were not acting solely on our OOC knowledge. Our characters were acting on their IC knowledge that one is false and one is true. If a system that has run smoothly all your life, and all the lives of everyone you've ever know, and through all of recorded history, is suddenly being claimed by a small group of people to have failed in the way that is most convenient to them, and only in that way, the burden of proof is really on them to prove that the system failed, not on us to prove that it's still working the same way it always did. Plus, you sent that, "Begone, heretic!" message, which kind of ruined even the tiny sliver of an IC chance you had to act innocent.
Now, on to the broader issue:
Personally, I've never really given much credence to the idea that our characters should disbelieve the reports that they get. One of the most important reasons for this is that if you start claiming that one message or report is unreliable, there's no logical reason that you should trust any message or report that you receive. And that way lies madness. If your characters cannot believe the things that they hear, you may as well stop playing the game, because that's all there is to the game.
Furthermore, like I said, these are systems that have worked consistently throughout recorded history. There are no known instances of unreliable information coming through them. Who in their right mind would believe that they suddenly failed, just when it would most benefit <insert aggrieved lying party here>?
This is the only reason I would really consider trying to put in place some kind of official explanation for these systems that could explain that they are, for all intents and purposes, infallible. Yeah, you'll argue it can cause internal conflict if there's plausible deniability. Well, there isn't. No one buys it. The only people who will ever go along with an idea like that are the ones who are already on your side. (And Loren. He's weird that way.)
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So you're telling me that the accuser in a trial acting as the arbiter of the trial is not corrupt? That a Judge insisting that she has the power to order a Duke's physical whereabouts around and them arresting them after a few hours is not corrupt? That having your nepotistic cronies' in position to perform the arrest is not corrupt?
What?
In modern society, maybe. In Medieval societies, not particularly. The concept of what consitutes corruption and Justice for that matter varies wildly with Culture and Age. For example you would be hard pressed to convince people in the modern western world that trial by combat represents justice.
Now, on to the broader issue:
Personally, I've never really given much credence to the idea that our characters should disbelieve the reports that they get. One of the most important reasons for this is that if you start claiming that one message or report is unreliable, there's no logical reason that you should trust any message or report that you receive. And that way lies madness. If your characters cannot believe the things that they hear, you may as well stop playing the game, because that's all there is to the game.
Furthermore, like I said, these are systems that have worked consistently throughout recorded history. There are no known instances of unreliable information coming through them. Who in their right mind would believe that they suddenly failed, just when it would most benefit <insert aggrieved lying party here>?
This is the only reason I would really consider trying to put in place some kind of official explanation for these systems that could explain that they are, for all intents and purposes, infallible. Yeah, you'll argue it can cause internal conflict if there's plausible deniability. Well, there isn't. No one buys it. The only people who will ever go along with an idea like that are the ones who are already on your side. (And Loren. He's weird that way.)
Completely agree. System message's don't have a big OOC tag on them. Until Tom declares otherwise I see no reason to assume they are OOC information. I accept completely that some players have made a decision to treat it as OOC information, but without it being a declared fact that is a personal decision in my opinion, not something to be forced upon everyone else.
And finally everyone needs to realise that it is rare that you will understand 100% why another character takes the actions they do. It is EASY to assume some sort of OOC motivation to explain almost anything, and stating so in the forums is just a invitation for a flame fest. If it continues I will need to consider locking this thread.
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"Your own stupid fault?" Wow.
I don't have a horse in this race, but as I recall you used to spend at least a little bit of time on tact before you had that 'dev team' tag.
I'm amazed at the extent to which a player of your experience would actually come on these boards and have out in-game arguments like this. As it happens I agree with most of what you've said, but it really looks bad to have somebody in an official capacity talking smack.
Oh, wait, this is BM. I forgot.
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"Your own stupid fault?" Wow.
I don't have a horse in this race, but as I recall you used to spend at least a little bit of time on tact before you had that 'dev team' tag.
I'm amazed at the extent to which a player of your experience would actually come on these boards and have out in-game arguments like this. As it happens I agree with most of what you've said, but it really looks bad to have somebody in an official capacity talking smack.
Oh, wait, this is BM. I forgot.
In all honesty, auto da fe-ing your judge is never really smart if you want to stay in the realm... Unless you've got a big rebellion planned or the judge is really unliked or your religion reigns supreme in your realm. Then you may try something and expect to get away with it. If you haven't (and he hadn't), well, then I think Anaris has used the right terms.
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"Your own stupid fault?" Wow.
I don't have a horse in this race, but as I recall you used to spend at least a little bit of time on tact before you had that 'dev team' tag.
No...no, I've talked like this pretty much the whole time.
And if you'll notice, Perth agreed with that particular part.
Anyone who assassinates or auto da fes their Judge and then expects to have an unbiased trial is not thinking clearly.
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No...no, I've talked like this pretty much the whole time.
And if you'll notice, Perth agreed with that particular part.
Anyone who assassinates or auto da fes their Judge and then expects to have an unbiased trial is not thinking clearly.
I don't think I even remember a time before Tim was a dev.
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Also, in my own defense, until today I never even got to see the order to come to Zonasa. I replied to the Regent's polite request. When I next logged in I was arrested and so never saw all of the stuff with where Sigrún so politely corrected her Regent's request into an order. I honestly never had the chance to come in.
Though Morgan phrased it as a request, it was always meant as an order.
Morgan is rather upset about the speed with which you were arrested, though, and is debating what to do about it.
Sigrun is certainly vengeful, possibly power hungry, and probably oversteps her bounds, but I wouldn't call her corrupt. Nor would I say that Morgan is afraid to stand up to her. . . .
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Alright, alright.
Look, I'll stop arguing about it here.
At the end of day, yes, I recognize there was only a thin chance I would get away with what I did. As I said when I first did it, when I decided to do it I was extremely bored with Galen and considering deleting him. This whole incident has been a lot of fun actually and made me take some more interest in Galen.
I really enjoy Sigrún as character and I mean no offense to the player if I have insinuated that. I think he plays the character well.
I'll keep it in game from here.
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Though Morgan phrased it as a request, it was always meant as an order.
Morgan is rather upset about the speed with which you were arrested, though, and is debating what to do about it.
Sigrun is certainly vengeful, possibly power hungry, and probably oversteps her bounds, but I wouldn't call her corrupt. Nor would I say that Morgan is afraid to stand up to her. . . .
She did make it explicitly clear that she intended to arrest him if he refused to attend his trial.
What happened wasn't picking up a convicted criminal, it was arresting a suspect who refused to stand trial. It is quite standard in any country I know of to arrest the accused first, and then put them on trial.
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She did make it explicitly clear that she intended to arrest him if he refused to attend his trial.
What happened wasn't picking up a convicted criminal, it was arresting a suspect who refused to stand trial. It is quite standard in any country I know of to arrest the accused first, and then put them on trial.
Morgan is of the opinion that Dukes should have special privileges.
I honestly can't recall exactly what she said about her intentions, because I was half asleep when I read it.
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In modern society, maybe. In Medieval societies, not particularly. The concept of what consitutes corruption and Justice for that matter varies wildly with Culture and Age. For example you would be hard pressed to convince people in the modern western world that trial by combat represents justice.
"Medieval Law and the Foundations of the State" by Alan Harding is a brilliant read concerning this kind of stuff.
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Damn.
Can you tell I've never had a character been arrested before?
I figured if I paid the fine I would at least have some grace time before I could be arrested again. What is the point of a ransom then?
Is Sigrún really going to execute him? And where did these treason charges come from all of sudden?
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It's to get you out of an enemy's dungeon, perhaps?
A Priest wanted by his own realm is pretty much dead meat.
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Damn.
Can you tell I've never had a character been arrested before?
I figured if I paid the fine I would at least have some grace time before I could be arrested again. What is the point of a ransom then?
To get you back to your capital.
Being a criminal in your own realm is, in fact, supposed to be a suicidally stupid thing to do.
Is Sigrún really going to execute him? And where did these treason charges come from all of sudden?
"All of a sudden"?
Sigrún has been talking from the very beginning about treason.
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In other news, Sorraine cannot fight any wars on their own, so they have recruited Arcaea to fight for them!
War! (4 hours, 48 minutes ago)
Sorraine has declared war on us!
War! (4 hours, 29 minutes ago)
Arcaea has declared war on us!
Treaty Broken (4 hours, 29 minutes ago)
Sir Velax de Vere, King of Arcaea, Marshal of the Royal Arcaean Legion has broken the treaty "The Ohnarian/Arcaean Compact".
This was a Alliance treaty that was signed into effect on 2011-02-13.
Now if only the Southern realms would jump in around now :) Continental war.. except Toupellon.. maybe?
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In other news, Sorraine cannot fight any wars on their own, so they have recruited Arcaea to fight for them!
It's medieval politics, not a team sport. What did you expect?
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In other news, Sorraine cannot fight any wars on their own, so they have recruited Arcaea to fight for them!
War! (4 hours, 48 minutes ago)
Sorraine has declared war on us!
War! (4 hours, 29 minutes ago)
Arcaea has declared war on us!
Treaty Broken (4 hours, 29 minutes ago)
Sir Velax de Vere, King of Arcaea, Marshal of the Royal Arcaean Legion has broken the treaty "The Ohnarian/Arcaean Compact".
This was a Alliance treaty that was signed into effect on 2011-02-13.
Now if only the Southern realms would jump in around now :) Continental war.. except Toupellon.. maybe?
That's what I was going for. But if Cathay is created anytime soon, they'll be an ally (or so I have been informed) of Arcaea/Sorraine
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It's medieval politics, not a team sport. What did you expect?
Well seeing that Ohnar West lived through Toupellon's attempt at a war against us and didn't have the help of any allies, it would be more fun to have a good 1v1 war without outside influence. But we knew Arcaea had their military ready to aid Sorraine - it was something I took full consideration of when I decided we should grab Ossaet from Duke Jatha.
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But we knew Arcaea had their military ready to aid Sorraine - it was something I took full consideration of when I decided we should grab Ossaet from Duke Jatha.
If you expected it, then why are you smacktalking in the forums about it?
gaaah, '1v1 war.' It isn't football. It's politics with moving parts. For example, Ohnar didn't even bother to try and make friends with Toupellon-about-to-be-Cathay -- your PM ignored diplomatic contact entirely. There is no such thing as '1v1' in BM politics.
Anyway, the entire FEI is playing RegionMaintenanceMaster until the new estates and market system rolls out. There hasn't been a proper war in ages.
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In other news, Sorraine cannot fight any wars on their own, so they have recruited Arcaea to fight for them!
War! (4 hours, 48 minutes ago)
Sorraine has declared war on us!
War! (4 hours, 29 minutes ago)
Arcaea has declared war on us!
Treaty Broken (4 hours, 29 minutes ago)
Sir Velax de Vere, King of Arcaea, Marshal of the Royal Arcaean Legion has broken the treaty "The Ohnarian/Arcaean Compact".
This was a Alliance treaty that was signed into effect on 2011-02-13.
Now if only the Southern realms would jump in around now :) Continental war.. except Toupellon.. maybe?
This is the second time you've provoked war and then immediately come onto the forums to complain about the other realm's players. Give it a rest.
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In other news, Sorraine cannot fight any wars on their own, so they have recruited Arcaea to fight for them!
If you want to know why Arcaea is so eager to fight Ohnar, I suggest taking a look at your ruler. I doubt there's been a more deceitful ruler since Conan. And Velax didn't much appreciate Callandor trying to cozy up to him while actually trying to collect information he could use against Velax and Arcaea. Tends to piss him off.
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This is another case of a perceived ganging-up being just really poor decisions and bad diplomacy. And lots of people really don't like OW. Or your ruler, who is considered one of the worst scoundrels on the islans.
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If you want to know why Arcaea is so eager to fight Ohnar, I suggest taking a look at your ruler. I doubt there's been a more deceitful ruler since Conan.
Or, you know, Velax. ::)
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Mmm hmm. If you can point out one time Velax has lied, feel free. Jenred promised you peace, not Velax. Velax didn't want peace with Arcachon, never promised peace with Arcachon and ran for election on the platform of going back to war. For which he was elected with some 110-odd votes. He upheld the promise he made to his nobles. Not sure what you'd call deceitful about that. Upholding a promise he made to some 50-odd nobles is, in Velax's opinion, far more important than upholding a promise someone else made to a hated enemy. And he announced it to the rulers first rather than sticking his entire army in Enlod before declaring war, as other realms have done.
Me'hoe, on the other hand, lies every time he opens his mouth or picks up a pen. I doubt any of the embarrassing messages he sends to the rulers get shown around in Ohnar West, so perhaps your realm is unaware of that.
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Mmm hmm. If you can point out one time Velax has lied, feel free. Jenred promised you peace, not Velax. Velax didn't want peace with Arcachon, never promised peace with Arcachon and ran for election on the platform of going back to war. For which he was elected with some 110-odd votes. He upheld the promise he made to his nobles. Not sure what you'd call deceitful about that. Upholding a promise he made to some 50-odd nobles is, in Velax's opinion, far more important than upholding a promise someone else made to a hated enemy.
When a ruler makes peace, he makes it on behalf of a realm. So Jenred making peace with Melehan, was Arcaea making peace with Arcachon. You could say Velax isn't deceitful, yet he certainly broke the peace Arcaea had signed with Acachon. Thus Velax as the monarch who tore up the deal, broke the word his predecessor had made on behalf of Arcaea. So either Arcaea collectively bears the burden of having broken their word, or the responsibility lies upon its ruler (Velax) as its representative.
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Anyway, the entire FEI is playing RegionMaintenanceMaster until the new estates and market system rolls out. There hasn't been a proper war in ages.
RegionMaintenanceMaster may have just caused a few sparks toward war, unfortunately. Or fortunately, given your perception. But yeah, rolling out partial updates to stable without finishing it has wreaked havoc on an island that had been experiencing near-universal drought. The statistics page on food production/supply is miserable right now.
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When a ruler makes peace, he makes it on behalf of a realm. So Jenred making peace with Melehan, was Arcaea making peace with Arcachon. You could say Velax isn't deceitful, yet he certainly broke the peace Arcaea had signed with Acachon. Thus Velax as the monarch who tore up the deal, broke the word his predecessor had made on behalf of Arcaea. So either Arcaea collectively bears the burden of having broken their word, or the responsibility lies upon its ruler (Velax) as its representative.
I don't think you're actually aware of the meaning of the word deceitful. "Marked by deliberate deceptiveness especially by pretending one set of feelings and acting under the influence of another." At what point did Velax pretend he wanted peace while actually working to end the treaty?
It seems entirely reasonable that if a ruler makes a promise that goes against the wishes of his entire nation and then goes crazy (which is pretty much what happened after Jenred's accident), the subsequent ruler is perfectly entitled to honour the wishes of his realm and rescind peace. You're welcome to disagree if you wish, but it's quite ridiculous to compare a man upholding a promise made to every member of his realm to a man who changes position so often even he doesn't know which way he's facing.
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RegionMaintenanceMaster may have just caused a few sparks toward war, unfortunately. Or fortunately, given your perception. But yeah, rolling out partial updates to stable without finishing it has wreaked havoc on an island that had been experiencing near-universal drought.
I recall reading on the forum somewhere that the big update is coming this week.
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RegionMaintenanceMaster may have just caused a few sparks toward war, unfortunately. Or fortunately, given your perception. But yeah, rolling out partial updates to stable without finishing it has wreaked havoc on an island that had been experiencing near-universal drought. The statistics page on food production/supply is miserable right now.
What partial updates did we get that affected food?
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I don't think you're actually aware of the meaning of the word deceitful. "Marked by deliberate deceptiveness especially by pretending one set of feelings and acting under the influence of another." At what point did Velax pretend he wanted peace while actually working to end the treaty?
What you do not see, is whatever Velax's personal opinion or stand may be, when he is wearing his head of state hat, he assumes the responsibilities, treaties, promises and liabilities of his predecessors. It's the very basis of diplomacy. So while Velax could tear up the peace as head of state, that would mean reneging on the word given by the erstwhile head of state, who acted representing Arcaea.
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And again, you fail to realise the actual meaning of the word. If Velax tears up a peace, call him a treaty-breaker if you want to. Ingall certainly does. But unless Velax deliberately misled you, or anyone else, into thinking he was going to uphold the peace while never planning to do so, it's not deceitful. Not sure if I can state it any clearer.
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It shows the realm as deceitful and untrustworthy by those who it has made promises to and then reneged. It does not matter who the head of state is, the actions one one carry over to the next. That is simply how politics works. You don't get a blank slate when a new king/president/prince/Doge/despot/whatever is named.
Westmoor on EC, for example, is still making up for the actions of Flaylen who was king two monarchs ago. He reneged on treaties and alliances, declaring war where he simply wanted to declare war. And you know what? Even though I am the one still trying to clean up the mess, I (at least OOC) think it's right that I have to.
And why? Because it indicates the realm has no idea WTF it wants and it makes people question its word. At least with Maedros and then myself, our policies have been relatively steady.
So no, Velax is not deceitful, but Arcaea seems to be.
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I can see how other realms might think less of Arcaea because of that. They're wrong, but I can see the reasoning behind it. But it was the only way things could be. There were massive protests when Jenred made peace, and while he probably wouldn't have been protested out of rulership, there were going to be some serious questions to answer. But once Jenred disappeared...what other outcome was there going to be but the ending of the peace? Everyone in Arcaea wanted to finish what they started in Arcachon, so of course they voted in someone who was going to do that. I don't think people understand the depth of hatred Arcaea had for Arcachon.
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Oh, I understand completely. But remember, the people outside the realm can't see the protests and complaints. Unless they are ICly (or in some cases at least OOCly) informed of such, they simply have to assume the ruler is acting with the consent of the masses.
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What partial updates did we get that affected food?
I honestly don't know what has been updated and what hasn't. Lots of things seem half done but since I didn't take office until after the update supposedly started going through, I don't have much to compare it to. All I know is that things tanked globally around the same time. I know our drought had been going on for a few real-world months and the ice just kinda broke. If they're unrelated, there's that. Regardless, Scarlett's right, we're a bit hamstrung in a lot of places waiting.
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I don't think anything affected food. The only changes I've seen are the addition of granaries (currently useless) and the new Duke titles, also currently useless.
We're probably just suffering through a bad drought.
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Promises made to Arcachon don't count. They break so many treaties and agreements that we all stopped keeping track. ;)
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Whether Velax is more deceitful than Me'hoe isn't even a proper comparison, much less a relevant one.
As the guy who wrote the treaty that Arcaea just 'broke' with Ohnar back when Galiard was Ohnar's PM, it's hilarious to even imagine that they're the same realms. Ohnar back then was still nominally Lasanar's successor realm, even if in name only. What exists today is not even recognizable.
"Deceitful" implies, er, deception. Treaties signed by one ruler in the middle ages were almost guaranteed to get broken by a future ruler. This is why one of the first thing new Kings would do is to have everybody re-swear fealty to him (or her), or else just make it an annual event. Why bother, when fealty was for life and sworn to the office and not the individual anyway? Because these things need maintenance and if you don't show up every once in a while and say "Hi there, we're still the same folks who had this treaty with you way back when!" then it's going to stop being relevant. BM kinda-sorta modeled this with the concept of "friction" even if it was never really implemented.
The idea that a King could sign a treaty, die the next day, and then have anybody expect that the treaty would hold up is laughable. It's a medieval political document, not a soccer tournament tree or a modern-day employment contract. Look no further than succession crisis: why is it that your vassals might all take the opportunity to revolt when one King goes and another gets crowned? It's not like their oaths say 'and ye shall have the opportunity to piss all over this oath if thy King shall perish.' It's that they understood that Kingdom - King equals Dumb and that's not a lot to go on.
Finally, every ruler is a little deceitful. Maybe they don't lie outright, but they are going to pick and choose what they say and when they say it. That's the game we're all in. I've never seen Me'hoe even try to play along. Could be why OW is short on friends right now.
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Is it possible that I am the only one in OW who actually thinks that the war makes sense in relation with the latter events, and is it also possible that no one else is sort of enjoying it?
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I honestly don't know what has been updated and what hasn't. Lots of things seem half done but since I didn't take office until after the update supposedly started going through, I don't have much to compare it to. All I know is that things tanked globally around the same time. I know our drought had been going on for a few real-world months and the ice just kinda broke. If they're unrelated, there's that. Regardless, Scarlett's right, we're a bit hamstrung in a lot of places waiting.
Then stop complaining about the Dev team ruining the island, when in fact you don't know what you're talking about.
Read the announcement again. I'll even post it here:
Beluaterra and Dwilight will get another 15% reduction in food production, to balance out food better, and make trade and looting more important.
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Then stop complaining about the Dev team ruining the island, when in fact you don't know what you're talking about.
Hostile, much? There's a good chunk of the dev team that I would be willing to say are some of the people I've known the longest and like the most in this game. I never complained about the Devs nor about anyone ruining the island.
To clarify, because much as you might have been implying, I'm not a complete and utter moron and know the difference between testing and stable islands, I was referencing the following:
Posted: April 05, 2012, 11:26:03 AMStable Update
Just a short info to let you know that we are moving forward on the big update to stable. It should be coming within the next few weeks.
-- Tom
and Anyway, the entire FEI is playing RegionMaintenanceMaster until the new estates and market system rolls out. There hasn't been a proper war in ages.
But hey, if you'd like to be helpful instead of just snarky and spiteful, could you let us know what, if anything, has been rolled over to stable? The dynamic map has been changed for awhile now but aside from that, are we still waiting on everything else?
I recall reading on the forum somewhere that the big update is coming this week.
Oh look, helpfulness. Thanks.
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Yikes. That's a bit harsh. Banning, immediately arresting and then executing one of your own realm members.
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Yikes. That's a bit harsh. Banning, immediately arresting and then executing one of your own realm members.
He burned the Judge's house down, while she was still in it.
She made it out; some of her servants didn't.
What do you expect to have happen?
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My least favorite thing in BM is the resistance to controversy many characters display because their players look at the game like a sport. It's what leads to relaxed attitudes toward address and station, knights referring to Dukes by name and not title, and the general equivocation and equalization of hierarchy that makes medieval politics something different and "new" (okay, not new...). This problem is made even worse when there are fewer players. I have seen "but we need nobles" as a defense of all kinds of awful behavior quite a lot lately.
So I'm sorry to see Galen killed since I suspect he was an interesting character (having seen his relatives) but good for Zonasa. Actions have consequences. Inaction has consequences. Station matters.
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He burnt it down? Did he RP that?
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He burnt it down? Did he RP that?
It was an auto da fe. That's what they do.
He didn't burn it down personally, but he was at the head of the mob of screaming peasants that did, egging them on.
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It's discouraging to see so much bad blood on the forums over someone trying to make things more interesting. What's the point of trying to create some inter-realm conflict during a slow period if you're just going to be criticized by the other players for not helping the realm win?
Oh, well. At least it brought some life to PoZ for a little while. Wish I had some medals to throw around, though.
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He didn't burn it down personally, but he was at the head of the mob of screaming peasants that did, egging them on.
Allegedly.
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Allegedly.
Dude, seriously? Galen's dead now. You can quit grandstanding.
He drove her out, burned down her house, sent a message saying, "Begone, heretic, and never trouble these holy mountains again!", and then started trying to claim that it was all just a big misunderstanding.
We all know perfectly well that the notion of it being Galen attempting to calm the mobs was something thought up after the fact. Honestly, it was a reasonably clever defense, and might have had some traction if he hadn't sent that message. You were particularly lucky that Vellos was more than happy to run with it in order to spit in my and Tonie's eyes.
But it's over now, and we can talk about it OOC without the BS, can't we?
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Let it be a lesson to all: don't piss off the judge. :)
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Let it be a lesson to all: don't piss off the judge. :)
Quoted for truth.
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What's the point of trying to create some inter-realm conflict during a slow period if you're just going to be criticized by the other players for not helping the realm win?
See, this is a debate worth continuing, and a big philosophical difference among some camps. I am in the camp that says conflict should largely happen between realms. Particularly the kind that could tear a realm apart if not channeled outward.
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For the record, I have no OOC problem with what Perth did. As may have come out before, I'm mildly annoyed by the attempts to claim that reports that our characters get of IG events are inaccurate; however, I recognize that as a valid philosophical debate within the BattleMaster community.
The only thing that really seriously bugs me OOC is when people come on the forums and try to argue here, OOC, that what obviously happened IC did not.
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The only thing that really seriously bugs me OOC is when people come on the forums and try to argue here, OOC, that what obviously happened IC did not.
Agreed. It's always come down to character separation from the real world. The source of some of our biggest blowups have largely been for this reason.
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Let it be a lesson to all: don't piss off the judge. :)
You can....next time just don't stay there!
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See, this is a debate worth continuing, and a big philosophical difference among some camps. I am in the camp that says conflict should largely happen between realms. Particularly the kind that could tear a realm apart if not channeled outward.
I am of the camp that thinks the best rulers are those that manage to channel the inherent conflict-prone nature of their nobles outwards. This is a hard job, but it is an IC job for your character, not an OOC job for the player.
This kind of criticism ("but we need more nobles", "you're not helping the realm") is very difficult to imagine as an IC criticism, even when it is sent with all the trappings of an IC letter.
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It's discouraging to see so much bad blood on the forums over someone trying to make things more interesting. What's the point of trying to create some inter-realm conflict during a slow period if you're just going to be criticized by the other players for not helping the realm win?
Oh, well. At least it brought some life to PoZ for a little while. Wish I had some medals to throw around, though.
What's worse is I guess Galen got sold out by someone in Toupellon for no real reason other than they wanted to "avoid war." I mean, sheesh, in a time when the whole island is just reaching for some reason to fight, to sell out the guy who's going to provide a great reason for it? Religious entanglements and all! Lame. Plus, they didn't even have to do it, because I never switched Haul over. They could've simply revealed the treason then and said, "hey, we want no part of this, take him back." But, for some reason unbeknownst to me they wanted Galen in big trouble, I guess.
Let it be a lesson to all: don't piss off the judge. :)
No kidding. I didn't ever really think Galen would get executed for it. Sigrún is a hard-ass. Banned I expected; possibly taken Haul to another realm and started a war, etc. Didn't think he would get executed, at least not in Zonasa of all places.
I especially did not foresee how difficult it would be to get out of the realm. I guess I'll know in the future now. In retrospect, I should have just taken Haul to Toupellon much earlier. However, how quiet the realm got and how everyone seemed to lose interest in the Tribunal made me think I was maybe going to get away with it. However, it is now apparent that Toupellon wanted none of that anyways, so I guess it wouldn't have mattered in the end.
Also, I wish the other members of the Church would have been a little more supportive. But, the Church sucks and was mostly why I did what I did because I was bored and was thinking of pausing/deleting Galen anyways. All of Galen's previous relationship and friendship with Rory also made me think I would have an ally in him, but he jumped all over me too. Sigrún offered me the option of exile if Galen would "confess" his crimes. I thought about it for a second but it would have obviously not been Galen's character to do so. Also, I'm not sure what I would have done with him somewhere else. It works out in the end, Galen is gone and becomes a martyr for his Church and I've rid myself of a, until then, mostly boring character and religion.
The only bad part now is that I want to make a new character but don't know where to send them. I'm not into the whole two characters on one continent thing so AT and ET and DWI are out, and I've never kept track of the BT storyline so that doesn't seem attractive and the Colonies I think would be to slow for me. That only leaves the Far East, but I feel like if I made a new Character there it would feel a little... awkward. What do you all think? What's the norm for this kind of thing? I've never had a character executed before, lol.
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What's worse is I guess Galen got sold out by someone in Toupellon for no real reason other than they wanted to "avoid war.
I think you are confusing players' desire for interesting things like war with in-character politics.
You approached Toupellon a month or two ago with an offer to pledge to Toupellon and were turned down. You then approached the now-different group running Toupellon-about-to-be-Cathay with the same offer. In both cases it was transparently self-serving, and in both cases Toupellon's response was 'are we prepared to fight over Haul? Can we win?' and the answer came back: 'No.'
Galiard, at least, has no problem with war. But he won't start one he can't finish, and given how ready Zonasa was to go to war over the terrible, terrible 'interruption of the food supply from Ohnar West' earlier, he's not about to give the entire South a reason to invade just for the sake of a mountain stronghold that comes with an uppity Duke.
From Toupellon's perspective, Galen overplayed his hand. It had nothing to do with 'wanting war' or 'avoiding war' and everything to do with not also overplaying ours.
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Galen was not "sold out" by Toupellon. We declined to accept Haul and give you asylum because, as Scarlet says, we could not afford at the time to get involved in a war over it. That would have been suicide. We would have lost Haul and probably more to boot. Look what happened when we tried to fight OW.
There's a big difference between declining to grant asylum and "sold out".
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I think you are confusing players' desire for interesting things like war with in-character politics.
You approached Toupellon a month or two ago with an offer to pledge to Toupellon and were turned down. You then approached the now-different group running Toupellon-about-to-be-Cathay with the same offer. In both cases it was transparently self-serving, and in both cases Toupellon's response was 'are we prepared to fight over Haul? Can we win?' and the answer came back: 'No.'
Galiard, at least, has no problem with war. But he won't start one he can't finish, and given how ready Zonasa was to go to war over the terrible, terrible 'interruption of the food supply from Ohnar West' earlier, he's not about to give the entire South a reason to invade just for the sake of a mountain stronghold that comes with an uppity Duke.
From Toupellon's perspective, Galen overplayed his hand. It had nothing to do with 'wanting war' or 'avoiding war' and everything to do with not also overplaying ours.
It still stands that they turned him over for no reason other than to get him in trouble. It isn't as if he ever came over, and even if he had you could've just exposed his intentions and handed him back over. It just seems needlessly spiteful to expose him ... while he's in prison... with no objective other than to seal what might have been an exile into a death sentence.
I mean, I'm not hating OOC or anything. I understand if they didn't want the war with Zonasa, I was just confused and caught off guard by their desire to expose him, when he had never done anything to cause dislike from Toupellon. *shrug*
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Galen was not "sold out" by Toupellon. We declined to accept Haul and give you asylum because, as Scarlet says, we could not afford at the time to get involved in a war over it. That would have been suicide. We would have lost Haul and probably more to boot. Look what happened when we tried to fight OW.
There's a big difference between declining to grant asylum and "sold out".
Well, someone, in Toupellon told Zonasa's rulers about it with clearly no other objective than to get Galen in trouble. That is what I'm referring too. I don't know who it was, though. Could've been someone Galen had never spoken too considering it seems this stuff was talked about in some councils in Toupellon.
Perhaps someone in Order of the Elders who didn't like Galen?
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Galiard had no idea he was in prison. Neither did I, since I didn't start reading about it on this thread until after Galen had been turned in.
Galiard had Regent Evans on one hand whom he doesn't know and whom he thinks is looking for a reason to invade, and Galen on the other ... whom he also doesn't know.
Galen handed Cathay a chance to earn political points with Zonasa at very little cost and by doing the 'honorable' (or at least lawful) thing to boot -- refuse to scheme and plot and turn in the schemer. Maybe those points won't amount to much and maybe Cathay doesn't even need them, but Galiard likes collecting favors. Ask Jenred. :)
Galen certainly didn't give anybody any reason not to like him (or to like him) and that didn't play into it at all. But when you play the game of thrones...
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Galiard had no idea he was in prison. Neither did I, since I didn't start reading about it on this thread until after Galen had been turned in.
Galiard had Regent Evans on one hand whom he doesn't know and whom he thinks is looking for a reason to invade, and Galen on the other ... whom he also doesn't know.
Galen handed Cathay a chance to earn political points with Zonasa at very little cost and by doing the 'honorable' (or at least lawful) thing to boot -- refuse to scheme and plot and turn in the schemer. Maybe those points won't amount to much and maybe Cathay doesn't even need them, but Galiard likes collecting favors. Ask Jenred. :)
Galen certainly didn't give anybody any reason not to like him (or to like him) and that didn't play into it at all. But when you play the game of thrones...
Ah. I see.
Again, I'm not trying to whine about it. Was more just asking for the bottom of it to get some closure to everything that happened since that part particularly caught me off guard and was only part of everything that I wasn't sure of what happened exactly.
Although now I'm thinking it was just some way for the Scarlett's to get a 'one up' on the Perth's..... ;)
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Although now I'm thinking it was just some way for the Scarlett's to get a 'one up' on the Perth's..... ;)
Family feuds! How exciting :D
What better reason to bring back a character to FEI.
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Although now I'm thinking it was just some way for the Scarlett's to get a 'one up' on the Perth's..... ;)
My characters on different continents don't communicate with each other. I get really tired of 'House' vendettas where the character's name doesn't matter, just the family's.
Galiard had very little idea who Galen is and has no idea who Kale is. Even had he known about Kale, he wouldn't ever do something like that - he'd consider it petty to make such a major political move on the basis of a personal grudge. In fact, if Galiard knew who Kale was, if anything it might have helped Galen rather than hurt him.
Galiard is a political chess-player. He used to win a lot but as he's gotten older and crankier and realms have gotten smaller it's become harder for him to make moves. In his prime he managed as much as he did because he had rulers from all over who owed him one, and if there's one prediction you can make about him it's that he would like to be in that position again!
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That only leaves the Far East, but I feel like if I made a new Character there it would feel a little... awkward. What do you all think? What's the norm for this kind of thing? I've never had a character executed before, lol.
Come join Arcaea. We won't mind too much that Zonasa executed a relative of your new character. Might even give him bonus points.
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Or Cathay. There's not much love between Cathay and Zonasa, at least not yet, and we're small enough that one vocal person can influence things.
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My characters on different continents don't communicate with each other. I get really tired of 'House' vendettas where the character's name doesn't matter, just the family's.
I was just joshin'.
Galen was a bit of a family outcast anyway. He has no real bearing on Kale or Kerwin and knew little about them and vice versa.
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What's worse is I guess Galen got sold out by someone in Toupellon for no real reason other than they wanted to "avoid war." I mean, sheesh, in a time when the whole island is just reaching for some reason to fight, to sell out the guy who's going to provide a great reason for it? Religious entanglements and all! Lame. Plus, they didn't even have to do it, because I never switched Haul over. They could've simply revealed the treason then and said, "hey, we want no part of this, take him back." But, for some reason unbeknownst to me they wanted Galen in big trouble, I guess.
I was actually hoping, both OOC and IC, that they would take you up on it. Part of the reason Morgan was letting you stay in Haul was because he wanted you to take the region to Toupellon, so that Zonasa would have an excuse for war.
But then Toupellon had to go and do the smart thing. . . .
No kidding. I didn't ever really think Galen would get executed for it. Sigrún is a hard-ass. Banned I expected; possibly taken Haul to another realm and started a war, etc. Didn't think he would get executed, at least not in Zonasa of all places.
I especially did not foresee how difficult it would be to get out of the realm. I guess I'll know in the future now. In retrospect, I should have just taken Haul to Toupellon much earlier. However, how quiet the realm got and how everyone seemed to lose interest in the Tribunal made me think I was maybe going to get away with it. However, it is now apparent that Toupellon wanted none of that anyways, so I guess it wouldn't have mattered in the end.
Also, I wish the other members of the Church would have been a little more supportive. But, the Church sucks and was mostly why I did what I did because I was bored and was thinking of pausing/deleting Galen anyways. All of Galen's previous relationship and friendship with Rory also made me think I would have an ally in him, but he jumped all over me too. Sigrún offered me the option of exile if Galen would "confess" his crimes. I thought about it for a second but it would have obviously not been Galen's character to do so. Also, I'm not sure what I would have done with him somewhere else. It works out in the end, Galen is gone and becomes a martyr for his Church and I've rid myself of a, until then, mostly boring character and religion.
Running earlier probably would have been wiser.
I'm guessing that Rory felt like it was a betrayal -- Morgan took it somewhat personally, the offer of exile if he would confess was his doing. He really wanted to know why Galen would do such a thing . . . he was really upset at Galen but didn't actually want him dead, but didn't feel like he could save him without Galen confessing.
David would have liked to give a bit more support, but was in a hard situation being the Regent's nephew, and getting leaned on by the family . . . though he did raise belief in Echad in Zonasa to over 60%. If you had waited a couple weeks before doing the initial auto de fe, Morgan would probably have joined the church, actually.
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David would have liked to give a bit more support, but was in a hard situation being the Regent's nephew, and getting leaned on by the family . . . though he did raise belief in Echad in Zonasa to over 60%. If you had waited a couple weeks before doing the initial auto de fe, Morgan would probably have joined the church, actually.
Yeah :-\ That would've been fun.
But... he still can! The religion is pretty much yours now, congrats! lol ;D
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Yeah :-\ That would've been fun.
But... he still can! The religion is pretty yours now, congrats! lol ;D
While it lasts.
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While it lasts.
Feel free to join, Anaris.
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It shows the realm as deceitful and untrustworthy by those who it has made promises to and then reneged. It does not matter who the head of state is, the actions one one carry over to the next.
Not in Arcaean history. There's been precisely one change of Rulers that has had any degree of continuity, that of Dentara to Jenred. Every single other change of Rulers has resulted in massive, systemic, and drastic change in the realm. Dentara was elected as a rejection of Riar, and completely through over several of the things he had put into place, including a peace agreement he had reached with Sartania. And even the Dentara -> Jenred move made it clear that Jenred was going to continue Dentara's policies because he believed in them (he had helped shape many of them, after all), but that he was the King.
And, frankly, in Battlemaster this happens all the time. I personally think Jenred's Rulership would have weathered his decision to make peace with Arcachon if I hadn't paused and I had full time to devote to playing him properly, but it would certainly have been close and I doubt I would have pulled it off with the severely reduced activity I had at the time. Velax was specifically elected to (among other things) overturn Jenred's decision.
Indeed, if anyone should be labeled as deceitful in this instance, it should be Jenred, for making a promise to Arcachon that he wasn't sure he could keep.
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Maybe those points won't amount to much and maybe Cathay doesn't even need them, but Galiard likes collecting favors. Ask Jenred. :)
If you did, Jenred would respond that favours always, always, always come in handy, and would happily credit Galiard (among a few others) for teaching him that.
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Mmm... favors are only as solid as the people owing them, IMO. Collecting favors 24/7 won't help you if the others can't or won't return them, as Amaury had to learn the hard way... In the end his major allies were either unable or unwanting to harbor him, so he did the only sensible thing left to do and hurled himself off a 300 foot cliff :)
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I just wish the Southern realms had taken actions when they could. I rather don't care about OW getting beaten to shreds - I used our war to help the south reach out of their boredom and join a war, but I guess they like to wallow in their regions, twiddling their thumbs. Oh well, I just wanted to shake things up on FEI, didn't seem to work as well - didn't shake up the right realms haha
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I used our war to help the south reach out of their boredom and join a war
Why would your character care at all about that?
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It's been hard for the southern realms to know what to do on this. Caspius and Velax are crafting themselves into right proper villains but Me'hoe has pretty much shot himself in the foot at any chance he could get and that doesn't do much to want the south to partner with Ohnar. When the best reason you can give for alliance/aid is "I bet once we're dead, there's only you guys for them to come after" then you can't really blame them for sitting this one out.
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"Right proper villains"? How do you figure that? From an Aenilian perspective, sure. You're always going to see the other side as the bad guy. But from an OOC perspective? Hardly.
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I'd like to know what Caspius is being vilified for. I thought he was doing good so far...
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Probably because Caspius is a hard-nosed, narrow-minded upright noble that has more in common with actual medieval nobility than most characters in BM.
He's a villain by 21st century standards because he's not interested in things like diversity and compromise. By medieval standards he's pretty average.
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He's enforcing his claim on a duchy. Me'hoe had plenty of chances to prevent this, and definitely knew it was coming if he didn't cooperate. Are we calling people villains over religious fervor now, or what?
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Are we calling people villains over religious fervor now, or what?
Heck, I'm going further than that in Zonasa; Baranion isn't just accusing Galen (may he rest without peace) of being a villainous religious zealot; he's accusing Galen's religion of being, itself, dangerous and a potential threat.
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"Right proper villains"? How do you figure that? From an Aenilian perspective, sure. You're always going to see the other side as the bad guy. But from an OOC perspective? Hardly.
Understood. However, since I was addressing the idea of the southern realms and why they're not doing anything, I was coming from their perspective. Bigger realms ganging up on a single smaller realm can rarely be seen as the "good guys". Plus the way Velax throws his weight around it's hard to see him IC as anything but a bully.
OOC, not anything gained and a whole lot to be lost is really the reason to sit this one out. Does the south benefit by keeping Ohnar West around? Probably not, since it's fairly well established that Me'hoe was trying to play both sides for awhile to see who bit. Someone like that is not a good longterm investment. Turncoats rarely are.
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Understood. However, since I was addressing the idea of the southern realms and why they're not doing anything, I was coming from their perspective. Bigger realms ganging up on a single smaller realm can rarely be seen as the "good guys". Plus the way Velax throws his weight around it's hard to see him IC as anything but a bully.
Honestly, what did Arella expect with Hupar? Whether or not she meant it as a provocation to Arcaea, that's the way it's come off to much of the island. Did you really think one of the smallest realms on the island could snatch a region claimed by the largest realm on the island and we'd just shrug and say, "Yeah, sure, go ahead and have it"?
Edited to fix typo.
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Honestly, what did Arella expect with Hupar? Whether or not she meant it as a provocation to Arcaea, that's the way it's come off to much of the island. Did you really think one of the smallest realms on the island could snatch a region claimed by the largest realm on the island and we'd just shrug and say, "Yeah, sure, go ahead and have it"?
Edited to fix typo.
We've been over this quite extensively IC. There's absolutely no need to go over it OOC. The arguments would largely be the same. At least from you, as you have already proven. And it's not really going to help to explain OOC intentions from me because you don't have to deal with me, you have to deal with Arella.
Plus, I wasn't referencing Hupar in any way. This is just southern perspective on the OW situation alone.
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I'd like to know what Caspius is being vilified for. I thought he was doing good so far...
Probably because Caspius is a hard-nosed, narrow-minded upright noble that has more in common with actual medieval nobility than most characters in BM.
He's a villain by 21st century standards because he's not interested in things like diversity and compromise. By medieval standards he's pretty average.
I'm blushing. Thanks for the compliments :).
Scarlett hit the bullseye on that one. If there's the option between "compromise" or "demand", Caspius will always go with demand. I believe the only situation where he truly compromised was during the secession from Toupellon. Selene suggested I "tolerate" the Aenils in order to keep numbers. Without them, our regions would have never recovered and the entire realm turned into a complete failure. However, this was mainly due to Selene suggesting it; Caspius would never betray her unless she began speaking heresy ;D.
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Uhh because this is a game and I like to spread the fun to other players, it's a battlemaster. I've heard a lot of a grumblings from other players in southern realms and wanted to shake it up a bit, why not? Anyways, OW wouldn't be nearly as active or fun if we were doing more reconstruction...