BattleMaster Community
Community => Background => Topic started by: Haerthorne on March 15, 2011, 05:37:08 AM
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I'd like to start this topic with people's personal feelings about what is wrong and right in terms of how people roleplay their characters. I'm not trying to reach a consensus here since the medieval period was very diverse, but it would be nice if we could discuss what we think and perhaps even learn things from one another in respect to our knightly (and non-knightly) characters and the world they live in.
To start off, it rustles my jimmies when knights need to go to pubs to have a drink! You have all these other knights and soldiers who will happily drink with you and servants who can bring you the ale. Why go to a pub unless your ransacking it?
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Nobles addressing each other by only their first names.
Nobles saying peasants (should) have any measure of freedom.
People who have no consistency, e.g. one day their nobles are champions of honor and virtue, the next day they are scheming tricksters, and then they are champions of honor and virtue again.
Related to that: fame whores. People who will bend over backwards to gain that extra fame point, not caring of whether or not doing so even remotely fits the character they're using to get it. They'll set up a guild for the fame, change classes willy-nilly to snatch up any fame points related to said classes, etc.
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I don't like it when people are a bit too extreme with sticking to some characterization, sometimes sounding rather arrogant about it. I get it, we should try our best to stay in-character, but I really doubt all of us are expert roleplayers.
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Nobles saying peasants (should) have any measure of freedom.
Coming from a Belgian this drips from all the delicious coatings of sweet sweet irony.
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We're all unwilling anarchist here.
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Nobles that go to pubs.
Nobles that apparently sleep in full plate armor.
Nobles that habitually carry an entire arsenal of exceptionally lethal weaponry hidden in their left breast pocket.
Noble women having excessive rights and freedoms, and being sexually modernized.
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Nobles that go to pubs.
Nobles that apparently sleep in full plate armor.
Nobles that habitually carry an entire arsenal of exceptionally lethal weaponry hidden in their left breast pocket.
Noble women having excessive rights and freedoms, and being sexually modernized.
The first 3 are fine, but the equality of noble women in the game IS on purpose.
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The first 3 are fine, but the equality of noble women in the game IS on purpose.
PART of the fourth is intended. Rights and freedoms. That bothers me some, but not tons. What DOES bother me is the highly modernized sexuality of especially women, but some male characters as well.
Another thing that bothers me:
The infrequency of marriage.
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I, personally, am not comfortable roleplaying marriages because my RL wife would find that objectionable. That's why my characters either have an NPC spouse, or no mention of the subject.
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I've thought it out a place to see characters that are RPed to be more armored than a battleship, and carrying a sword longer than longcat. Especially, at balls, feasts, festivals, or parades.
Or how every(almost) character is, at least, 15 feet tall, solid muscle, and stunningly beautiful.
Or how private RPs are read as a letter, or public knowledge.
Or how every character has a deathwish. I'm occasionally guilt of this one, but oh well.
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People who insist that peace is better than war, that war is inherently evil, and that all else being equal they will attack anyone who is "aggressive".
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I have often either used a Tavern or Inn as the setting for a RP, ie my chars or/and my NPC's interacting together as part of some storyline or other etc, or simply a fun way of explaining IC why I couldn't/didn't do something because of OOC reasons, ie Elk often can't reply to letters because his scribe had been shanghaied into a drinking session by Tor etc, as for the life of me can't see how anyone can object to having them used in BM, especially when were so prevalent and widely used by nobles in the middle ages.
NB I'll use this snippet from an article about "Ye old trip to Jerusalem" to attempt back up my case.
"The answer to this lies in the date painted on the exterior walls of the Inn, that of 1189AD. This was the year of ascension to the throne of King Richard the First, known as Richard the Lionheart, and one of his first acts as King was to crusade against the Saracens who at that time occupied the Holy Land of Christian Religion. Nottingham Castle was a stronghold favoured by the King and legend has it that the brave Knights and men at arms who rallied to his call to fight in this Third Crusade, gathered at the Castle to rest before journeying to Jerusalem.
Legend also has it that these Crusaders stopped off at the Inn at the foot of the Castle for welcome refreshments – or perhaps more accurately, for ‘one for the road’. Given that in the Middle Ages, a ‘Trip’ was not a journey as such but rather a resting place where such a journey could be broken, it is understandable how the Inn came to be called ‘Ye Olde Trip To Jerusalem’."
Ye Olde Trip History
Copyright © 2009 Ye Olde Trip to Jerusalem. All Rights Reserved.
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I've split this thread because the discussion on marriage/sexuality/human nature was getting too far off topic.
Feel free to enjoy that thread here:
http://forum.battlemaster.org/index.php/topic,242.0.html (http://forum.battlemaster.org/index.php/topic,242.0.html)
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Thats an interesting post, Longmane, but like I said it is not the only place for a knight to get a drink and is over-represented as the place where people do drink, especially when your run of the mill bloodthirsty knight politely sits down, surrounded by plebians, and PAYS for his drink! The scandal! Anyway, I mainly want people to remember that there are estates, castles and abbeys filled to the brim with better food and drink than pubs.
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Male nobles always go to the whore houses for a partner
Marriage is very infrequent in the game, usually because there aren't enough female characters and no one I have found is willing to go through an RP to get there.
It's usually a solo-RP if anything - it's hard to get other players to RP with you
There just isn't enough RPing in the game, though I myself have been lagging at it recently as well.
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Male nobles always go to the whore houses for a partner
Marriage is very infrequent in the game, usually because there aren't enough female characters and no one I have found is willing to go through an RP to get there.
It's usually a solo-RP if anything - it's hard to get other players to RP with you
There just isn't enough RPing in the game, though I myself have been lagging at it recently as well.
Never have noticed the first one.
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I searched the wiki for 'whore' and found these:
http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Avalon/Roleplay_Section/Hector/Hector%27s_true_love,_part_I (http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Avalon/Roleplay_Section/Hector/Hector%27s_true_love,_part_I)
http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Steele_Family/Hard (http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Steele_Family/Hard)
http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Dimitrijevic_Family/Ludwig (http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Dimitrijevic_Family/Ludwig)
http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Heen_%28Region%29 (http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Heen_%28Region%29)
And there are plenty more.
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I've thought it out a place to see characters that are RPed to be more armored than a battleship, and carrying a sword longer than longcat. Especially, at balls, feasts, festivals, or parades.
Or how every(almost) character is, at least, 15 feet tall, solid muscle, and stunningly beautiful.
Or how private RPs are read as a letter, or public knowledge.
Or how every character has a deathwish. I'm occasionally guilt of this one, but oh well.
Then you haven't had the pleasure of meeting my noble Sundar, who corpulently overweight, rude and annoying... Glaumring is filthy like a Pict, and half naked most of the time, he is like a noble barbarian more than a fantasy platemail style noble, and then there is Akrogath which is the fantasy platemail wearing 15ft tall brooding blond haired 12ft sword guy...
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Then you haven't had the pleasure of meeting my noble Sundar, who corpulently overweight, rude and annoying... Glaumring is filthy like a Pict, and half naked most of the time, he is like a noble barbarian more than a fantasy platemail style noble, and then there is Akrogath which is the fantasy platemail wearing 15ft tall brooding blond haired 12ft sword guy...
Why ever would you think the Picts were filthy?
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Why ever would you think the Picts were filthy?
It was a generalization...
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By modern day standards of multi-weekly showers, ALL people from 1000 years ago were filthy.
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By modern day standards of multi-weekly showers, ALL people from 1000 years ago were filthy.
Whats that? Flees have laid eggs in the seems of your clothes? Burn them out with a candle!
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Why ever would you think the Picts were filthy?
Because they live in Scotland.
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Another thing that bothers me:
The infrequency of marriage.
That one bothers me in 2011 real life. :P
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What bothers me:
I can no longer write an RP in first person or limited third person and share it with the whole realm, because now private thoughts are considered public knowledge if published.
Medieval misoginy. Yeah, I understand it's historically accurate. But I'm not sure if it's fun in the game. (Some discussion on this is going on in the split thread.)
Nobles publicly acknowledging they are blood-related to an adventurer. That's supposed to be shameful.
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Nobles publicly acknowledging they are blood-related to an adventurer. That's supposed to be shameful.
Yes, absolutely. But you can't really ban someone for that, can you?
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Yes, absolutely. But you can't really ban someone for that, can you?
...Why not? There was a secession and war involving three realms (four if you count the secessionist realm) on the FEI over (mostly/partly depending on the realm) that sort of issue.
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You can ban someone cause you think they wore the wrong colour sash to a ball if you really want to. Whether your realm would let you get away with it is another thing.
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You can ban someone cause you think they wore the wrong colour sash to a ball if you really want to. Whether your realm would let you get away with it is another thing.
"Well one of us is going to have to change."
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Yes, absolutely. But you can't really ban someone for that, can you?
If a noble is related by blood to some commoner, then he deserves his nobility to be questioned.
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If a noble is related by blood to some commoner, then he deserves his nobility to be questioned.
That game option was removed years ago for abuses.
Still, I think I will run for judge next month, and enact a reign of terror.
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That game option was removed years ago for abuses.
Still, I think I will run for judge next month, and enact a reign of terror.
Hmm yeah. It's bad that some people didn't quite get what it was meant for.
Still, if you're related to a commonner, you're not a noble. In the case of adventurers, it is them who need to prove that they are related to nobles, not the other way around.
And please tell me in what realm you're planning to start a reign of terror, so that I can start a character there when I retire my eldest char (or to escape to if Arcachon falls.)
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That game option was removed years ago for abuses.
Still, I think I will run for judge next month, and enact a reign of terror.
I think he was just refering to the general act of the realm posting messages mocking the player and questioning his noble linege, rather then the old mechanic.
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I believe there were nobles back then who were nice to the peasants as there are all types of nobles as there are people today. I play Hyperion, Judge of Caerwyn, to be kind to adventurers and try to help them out at times as long as they stay and fight the monsters. Hyperion views this as somewhat of a "noble" act for a common to do in order to gain the rank of nobility.
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I'm nice to my puppies and they are registered with my family name, that does not mean I am related to them by blood.
I'm kidding.
I don't have any puppies.
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I believe there were nobles back then who were nice to the peasants as there are all types of nobles as there are people today. I play Hyperion, Judge of Caerwyn, to be kind to adventurers and try to help them out at times as long as they stay and fight the monsters. Hyperion views this as somewhat of a "noble" act for a common to do in order to gain the rank of nobility.
You can't "gain" the rank of commoner. Once a commoner, always a commoner.
Or do you mean that it could be discovered that someone is *not* a commoner?
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You can't "gain" the rank of commoner. Once a commoner, always a commoner.
Or do you mean that it could be discovered that someone is *not* a commoner?
I think Adventurers are nobles in disguise because they don't want to be a noble yet or part of a realm for that matter. In order to live in society and not be hassled, one must mix in with the crowd - so adventurers pretend to be lowly commoners. No peasants with pitchforks are able to defeat undead champions! Only nobles in disguise.. who want to perhaps be alone, fight heroic battles and find unique items.
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I think Adventurers are nobles in disguise because they don't want to be a noble yet or part of a realm for that matter. In order to live in society and not be hassled, one must mix in with the crowd - so adventurers pretend to be lowly commoners. No peasants with pitchforks are able to defeat undead champions! Only nobles in disguise.. who want to perhaps be alone, fight heroic battles and find unique items.
Please go read the long discussion on adventurers.
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Please go read the long discussion on adventurers.
Where? link?
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http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Adventurer (http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Adventurer)
Yeah, the big bad wiki. It's nice to check up on it once in a while. ::)
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http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Adventurer (http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Adventurer)
Yeah, the big bad wiki. It's nice to check up on it once in a while. ::)
So you meant wiki page", not "long discussion".
And I don't see any "long discussion" in the wiki page. By the way, the relevant page is not that one, but rather
http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Adventurer_Roleplaying (http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Adventurer_Roleplaying).
:P
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http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Adventurer (http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Adventurer)
Yeah, the big bad wiki. It's nice to check up on it once in a while. ::)
In my defense, Judge Hyperion is delusional ::)
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So you meant wiki page", not "long discussion".
And I don't see any "long discussion" in the wiki page. By the way, the relevant page is not that one, but rather
http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Adventurer_Roleplaying (http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Adventurer_Roleplaying).
:P
Oh boy...
If you would like for me in the future to provide the exact links then I would be quite willing to comply. However, seeing as how you managed to find not only the page but even link it here, I will assume that you have the capability to do it on your own.
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:P
Meh.
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No, there was also a long forum discussion about the exact definition of commoners/adventurers.
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Forum forum or D-list?
I think I recall one long discussion on the d-list about what it meant to be a commoner.
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Yes, but you can't force my character to change his views of adventurers. I'f how I like to play him and how it works well. He still kills plenty of filthy peasants who no one needs (except for Barca, hehe)
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Yeah, um, indiscriminate killing of peasants isn't really what it's about either.
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Yeah, um, indiscriminate killing of peasants isn't really what it's about either.
I didn't say that was what it's about, did I? No I just added that comment in their because I'm am humorous.
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Then you haven't had the pleasure of meeting my noble Sundar, who corpulently overweight, rude and annoying... Glaumring is filthy like a Pict, and half naked most of the time, he is like a noble barbarian more than a fantasy platemail style noble, and then there is Akrogath which is the fantasy platemail wearing 15ft tall brooding blond haired 12ft sword guy...
Sundar is an exception. I always enjoyed reading your RPs in Arcaea.
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That game option was removed years ago for abuses.
Still, I think I will run for judge next month, and enact a reign of terror.
Not because of abuses. It was removed because the reason for its existence was not understood.
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Not because of abuses. It was removed because the reason for its existence was not understood.
Yes. People saw it as a kind of ban, when it was much more serious.
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The major problem with "question nobility", and the problem that caused all the misunderstandings with it, was the description given to the ruler. The system blatantly told the ruler that they could use it to get rid of someone that the judge couldn't, or wouldn't, deal with. It told the ruler that you could use it to get someone out of a position, and remove their titles. The *mechanism* used to do it was to plant rumours that the noble wasn't really a noble at all. i.e. the game flat out told the ruler that you could strip someones titles by claiming they weren't a noble.
But then everyone was told that using it that way was an abuse of the game. That the "Question nobility" was really only supposed to be used when you actually wanted to really claim that someone wasn't a noble. Which was a complete contradiction of the what the game mechanics text claimed.
This led to huge flame wars on the DList. End result: Everyone was pissed off at everyone else, and game feature removed.
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And I think the vulgarity feature was a much better replacement for it. But I wish more people would agree that admitting to be related to a commoner is vulgar.
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But I wish more people would agree that admitting to be related to a commoner is vulgar.
It is. I have judged messages in the past about it. And I have reported messages about it, and my careful monitoring of other peoples' H/P seems to indicate that my complaints were confirmed.
Then again, I am trigger happy with the vulgarity button. I get a thrill out of reporting comments as vulgarity, and feel resentful when someone beats me to it.
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careful monitoring of other peoples' H/P
Wow. Your careful obsession impresses me.
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Just with a few pet issues, like vulgarity. Well, really on anything SMA.
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After reading through this thread again, I don't think anyone has touched on what I feel is one of the most severe problems that we face in BattleMaster. Everyone is focusing on trivialities: sexual freedoms, visiting whores, going to "pubs", not being mean enough (or too mean) to advies, etc.
What I feel is what is most wrong, is the rampant disrespect, incivility, and insulting attitude among the nobility. Too many players think that the proper way to respond to something you don't agree with is to fling insults and vitriol. It has become pretty commonplace for nobles to insult their lords, question the competence of councilors, and other such blatantly disrespectful and insulting behavior.
I'm not saying that everyone should shut up and follow orders. Far from it. That would be about the most boring thing I can think of. But too many people think that if your lord says something you don't agree with in a council, the proper thing to say is: "That's stupid." Or, when the leader of the religion declares a holy crusade, for ten members of the religion to stand up and try to shout him down because "All the elders a bunch of corrupt politicians and liars, spouting propaganda that makes us laughingstock of our enemies, who are all really honest, upstanding fellows." A lot of this stuff is not necessarily vulgar, and reportable as vulgarity, but disrespectful and insulting in ways and situations that just shouldn't happen.
I actually stepped down from the leadership of Sanguis Astroism, a position I greatly desired, because I couldn't handle all the abuse that was being tossed back and forth. Not just in my direction, but back and forth between supposed realm-mates and allies. The screaming and frothing at the mouth was more than I could take.
Whatever happened to "My, Lord, are you sure that's the wisest course? Surely the enemy won't be fooled by that misdirect." or "Marshal, if those are your orders, we'll do it, but I think there may be a better plan."
I know that fantasy/fiction books aren't the most reliable source of historical material, but you generally don't see nobles in fantasy literature act like complete asses, like many players seem to think is perfectly acceptable.
IMHO, stuff like this sours people on the game much more than some random noble claiming that some dirty commoner is his long-lost fourth-cousin-twice-removed from a forgotten branch of the family. I don't remember things being this bad back when I joined in early 2006. Or maybe this is just me "remembering the good old days through rose-colored glasses".
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People playing online in a game where they are supposed to compete against each other can sometimes lose themselves, both as players and as characters. Unfortunately there is no cure for being a jerk, although it befalls the leaders of the realm to make sure such nobles who are unable to follow proper decorum as expected of any noble do not get anything like lordships, council positions, marshal appointments, etc.
Basically, if you couldn't talk like a noble, act like a noble, have the proper decorum and protocol to act completely in control of yourself even if you were inwardly fuming, you didn't deserve to lead anyone else, nor deserve to be a model for the lesser nobility. I believe the saying goes something like "He who cannot control himself is unfit to control others"?
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I believe the saying goes something like "He who cannot control himself is unfit to control others"?
I think it's actually "master" rather than "control" (one wouldn't usually talk about controlling others, unless one is a multi ;) ).
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I'm pretty sure you are mixing reactionary antagonism (I hope I didn't just create my own term...) with frustration of the characters with the fact that the Elders in SA tend to not inform the rest of the church about their talks as well as they could. After the trial of Allison was started, nothing was heard except the repeated mantra "we are still holding it". This went on for at least a month before it ended, and so little was achieved I'm not sure if the trial itself was dismissed or if Allison was found not guilty.
Of course, characters may be frothing at the mouth because deeply held beliefs are being challenged (is the Prophet infallable), or because the player is bored and wants to stir things up (possibly Allison is an example).
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The perplexing matter though, is that behavior that was decidedly contrary to that which would have been expected of nobles is apparently rewarded in this game. I know I'm at a later period in referring to the Book of the Courtier (It deals with Renaissance Italy, but still dealt with noble decorum), however the fact remains that if you're a noble, you simply don't act react the way people might react commonly nowadays. The modern method of antagonism is often crude and direct, the commoners' way of dealing with things, and why not? We are in an era where such distinctions between noble and commoner are for the most part obsolete. Not so in BM.
If you play a noble, then act the part, or get no rewards. Sure, you can be rude and direct, but that should not get you any positions. While the constantly smiling, polite, inwardly scheming character is quite annoying, it seems as though that would be the accurate noble. However, I may be wrong on this, as I am looking at a later period, and for all I know medieval nobles were completely unrefined lowlifes, making the crude behavior by some players imparted on their characters quite fitting in such cases. I doubt that to be the case, though.
Now, to be fair, I have acted the same on some characters. I can recall that Ramuh, Iksandros, and Garret, have given rough replies to nobles. In the cases of Ramuh and Garret, the reason shouldn't be hard to figure out. Iksandros is an outlaw, so it shouldn't be surprising either. However, for the other nobles, I do not go into any sort of base arguing using direct language more fitting for commoners. It's all about the talking in circle kind of deal.
Of course, I think the primary reason we see some characters being so direct and not caring about any possible decorum or protocol which would have probably meant life or death in a medieval court, is because the players are...well, unfamiliar with any sort of decorum or protocol.
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What we really need are examples of noble behaviour for the time period. I know that at some times in history nobility themselves were crude by the standards of later "courtly" times, but I have no references that might place when and where this was.
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I'm inclined to believe that it wouldn't matter. Some players are used to the "smile and speak nicely while holding poison to the cup offered in friendship" method, while I have a feeling that the vast majority are more used to the "slap back when you get slapped" method.
Here's some suspicions I have about things that might have happened:
1. Anyone, noble or commoner, who insulted the king would probably see his headless body soon enough, or dangle a couple of feet in the air. Perhaps in the better outcomes, the noble would be exiled forever instead. The commoner would probably die like a dog no matter what. In any case, there probably was a whole laundry list of protocols to follow in the royal court, so even if you thought the king and every other noble in the court was a huge idiot, you hated their guts with a passion, desired them all to rot in forever in a pit of despair, recoil at the very thought of even laying eyes on their disgusting beings, you never said so, nor gave any indication that such were your thoughts, at least not directly. Well, maybe some courts were different, I suppose, though I can't imagine how such noble pride would allow them to speak like peasants would. Hm, many of us probably lack noble pride because we aren't nobles, and so the acting breaks down when under pressure, or we slip up occasionally anyway. Ah....
2. If a religion has enough influence, then a noble of no significant standing in that religion would not do well to insult or otherwise cross the elders. I have a hunch that a noble in medieval Europe would have his life and career ruined at the very least if he ever said anything bad about the Pope. Not so in BM. Sure, you can get cast out of the religion, but, big deal, right? Most religions can't or have no interest, in dealing with those brash upstarts. Most of the time, that's justified. After all, who cares about what pointless generic noble follower says? It does get a bit dumb when a priest keeps being a jerk in the religion though, as that would mean everyone who doesn't care for his opinion must ignore him.
3. You know those duels that Tom says aren't meant for sport? Well, they were meant for something. Back then, I have a feeling that duels of honor occurred over the slightest provocation. So if a noble starts talking too bluntly to you, challenge him to a duel. If he refuses, everyone else in the realm should be laughing at him, ostracizing him, basically cutting him off like some noob on 4chan who asks why there are so many typos. But no, that ain't happening. Even duels till surrender are usually brushed off or punishable by the realm. That has to do sometimes with the practical considerations, especially during war. But here's a thought: Be more subtle with your insults and provocations, and then there is no justification for a duel. If you want to spit stinky dung out of your mouth, then expect to pay for it.
But this all said, there are characters who can be like this. For one, adventurers are commoners, and they have none of the training in flowery euphemisms, nor any need to practice that, except perhaps to be more demure in front of nobles. Rogues are cut off from nobility for various reasons, and that can justify the lack of decorum due to the time spent outside the circle. Outlaws are outside the reach of the law, one of the things nobles probably held sacred, and so it would be something like a noble being noble only by blood, but otherwise a despised criminal. Savages who were born into nobility might qualify as well, but it takes one heck of a twisted and despicable noble family to even accept those as legitimate. Maybe we should also ostracize entire families? That sounds good to me if a player consistently creates characters that keep insulting people with no attempts at being subtle about it.
Now, I understand that English is not the first language for many players, and that it is hard to achieve such a feat in another language. But those cases are often quite obvious, and hopefully the player at least appears to be trying his best to affect the air of nobility. I am talking more about those who have no problems with English doing that. For example, I have definitely been on the wrong side of decorum as Garret, Iksandros, Ramuh, Samael (Who started as a commoner), and Zephyros. In those cases, I sometimes faced the outcomes that would have been expected, meaning banishment and other sorts of stuff, which is a good thing. Still, I would say, even to myself, that for the most part, avoid saying things too bluntly, and if I have nothing better to say than a really questionable "You're an idiot/whatever other term", then better not to say it. Hm, come to think of it, I only ever called people stupid as Garret while still in SA back in 2008. Ha, SA does bad things to people I guess.
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I'm pretty sure you are mixing reactionary antagonism (I hope I didn't just create my own term...) with frustration of the characters with the fact that the Elders in SA tend to not inform the rest of the church about their talks as well as they could.
Events in SA are one example of what I was talking about, but by no means the only one. They are not even all on Dwilight.
Of course, characters may be frothing at the mouth because deeply held beliefs are being challenged (is the Prophet infallable), or because the player is bored and wants to stir things up (possibly Allison is an example).
Find a way to express your "deeply held beliefs", or stir up some trouble, with resorting to screaming and yelling bitter insults at your superiors.
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Sundar is an exception. I always enjoyed reading your RPs in Arcaea.
Yeah I stopped RP with Sundar in Arcacea because I figured out that everyone could read Sundars mind and know things in RP's even though they weren't there. Its basically a popularity contest and Sundar was a roleplayed character, no one was having it... :-X
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Find a way to express your "deeply held beliefs", or stir up some trouble, with resorting to screaming and yelling bitter insults at your superiors.
Terse letters are an excellent means. Or refusing to follow orders. Or evading taxes. Or refusing to sell food. Or raising taxes on a vassal (for dukes). Or excommunicating. Or auto da fe'ing someone's knights.
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What I feel is what is most wrong, is the rampant disrespect, incivility, and insulting attitude among the nobility. Too many players think that the proper way to respond to something you don't agree with is to fling insults and vitriol. It has become pretty commonplace for nobles to insult their lords, question the competence of councilors, and other such blatantly disrespectful and insulting behavior.
Yes, yes, yes. Horrible, blatant disrespect of nobles /up/ the food chain including their own lieges, Council members, even their ruler...rudeness in speech and in "action" (in RPs).
On some levels, realm leaderships have some responsibility. Judges should fine people for egregious discourtesy in public discourse or action (and should be supported by their Ruler and the rest of the Council). Honourable duels as a means of settling disputes shouldn't be outlawed. Rulers should lead the way in expecting proper behaviour and modelling it.
There have definitely been time when I wished there was still some sort of "question nobility" action that I could take (even if it didn't have the same sorts of effects as the old mechanic). There have been some people whose letters and publicly RP'd actions would absolutely lead me to doubt their nobility!
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Yeah I stopped RP with Sundar in Arcacea because I figured out that everyone could read Sundars mind and know things in RP's even though they weren't there. Its basically a popularity contest and Sundar was a roleplayed character, no one was having it... :-X
You sent letters with absolutely insane ramblings about prophecies, consistently whined about how your shoes would be ruined by marching in a realm run by and based on bloody war with a former adventurer as King, and performed blatant toadying. Then when you didn't get positions you wanted started OOC bitching about how Jenred only appointed people he liked (which, of course, he does, that's one of the nifty things about being a Monarch) and accused the entire realm of bad roleplaying. I had enough of your pathetic whining in Arcaea that you are only the second person I have ever put on my ignore list.
Don't spread your patently ridiculous lies any further.
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Sundar was a fun character, but nothing in the post he ever sent to the realm would really suggest he was fit to hold any position in a realm based on war. We didn't need RP's to know that.
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You sent letters with absolutely insane ramblings about prophecies, consistently whined about how your shoes would be ruined by marching in a realm run by and based on bloody war with a former adventurer as King, and performed blatant toadying. Then when you didn't get positions you wanted started OOC bitching about how Jenred only appointed people he liked (which, of course, he does, that's one of the nifty things about being a Monarch) and accused the entire realm of bad roleplaying. I had enough of your pathetic whining in Arcaea that you are only the second person I have ever put on my ignore list.
Don't spread your patently ridiculous lies any further.
Ok I am going to have to dig up Sundars RP's if they are still able to be found. Secondly Sundar never made prophecy, thirdly I complained OOC because it was ridiculous serving in a realm of roleplay telepaths, and lastly you didn't like the fact that Sundars roleplay was the only person ever to roleplay around you that didn't lick your balls, you couldn't handle it and you had issues with it instead of being a good sport and interacting with Sundar, you had a hissy fit and wouldn't do it because Sundars whole roleplay was about being a two faced, fake noble who wanted to be king. Dude you have serious mental problems when you have to put a guy on ignore because you don't like his roleplays...get over yourself
Sadly I just checked Sundars RP's are all gone from the list, anyone else able to post them?
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Ok I am going to have to dig up Sundars RP's if they are still able to be found. Secondly Sundar never made prophecy, thirdly I complained OOC because it was ridiculous serving in a realm of roleplay telepaths, and lastly you didn't like the fact that Sundars roleplay was the only person ever to roleplay around you that didn't lick your balls, you couldn't handle it and you had issues with it instead of being a good sport and interacting with Sundar, you had a hissy fit and wouldn't do it because Sundars whole roleplay was about being a two faced, fake noble who wanted to be king. Dude you have serious mental problems when you have to put a guy on ignore because you don't like his roleplays...get over yourself
Sadly I just checked Sundars RP's are all gone from the list, anyone else able to post them?
And you simply won't accept that the RP's where irrelevant to the opinion of the other characters of the realm. When you post MESSAGES (note NOT RP's) that you don't want to march to war because it may damage your slippers, or post endless messages asking where is the best place to buy those slippers, then from the perspective of our characters, Sundar is a useless flop not worth promoting. I know for a fact that RP's wouldn't hold you back, since My character has from time to time RP'd planning to harm Jenreds family, yet has NEVER uttered such things in messages, and I was still able to gain a title in the realm.
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A useless flop who happens to be a noble and if you ever watched Caligula, being a useless flop never stopped thousands of useless flops from running kingdoms and holding positions of power. If Arcacea wasn't so bent on being a powerhouse, they might allow RP outside of dainty romance to survive in a mostly silent realm of over 75 nobles...Wonder why? Its because most of the realms nobles are there to 'win' and 'win' only.
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Ok I am going to have to dig up Sundars RP's if they are still able to be found. Secondly Sundar never made prophecy, thirdly I complained OOC because it was ridiculous serving in a realm of roleplay telepaths, and lastly you didn't like the fact that Sundars roleplay was the only person ever to roleplay around you that didn't lick your balls, you couldn't handle it and you had issues with it instead of being a good sport and interacting with Sundar, you had a hissy fit and wouldn't do it because Sundars whole roleplay was about being a two faced, fake noble who wanted to be king. Dude you have serious mental problems when you have to put a guy on ignore because you don't like his roleplays...get over yourself
Sadly I just checked Sundars RP's are all gone from the list, anyone else able to post them?
This is flatly untrue and grotesquely unfair.
You did an incredible amount of roleplay regarding actions that your character was doing publicly not to mention the letters which you sent to the realm and exchanged with other nobles. These public actions and public letters indicated that your character was a grotesquely fat, lazy, gluttonous buffoon with a hard-on for fancy slippers. What about that person was likely to win positions and influence in the realm?
Personally, I found your RP amusing and enjoyed exchanging a few messages with Sundar. When it got /not/ cool was when you started whining OOC that you didn't get promoted because we were mind-readers about Sundar's secret plans to overthrow Jenred. Newsflash! That's not why! It's because your /Roleplayed/ character was a useless buffoon.
If you had RP'd a competent noble who secretly wished for Jenred's downfall...you totally would have been promoted! That's the kind of thing that makes for really good RP...fun character development! Secret plots! That's good stuff. Instead, you wrote yourself into a corner and then you want to blame Matt /OOC/ because his /character/ doesn't think that your /character/ is a good choice for a lordship.
This OOC attacking is /crap/ and you are just plain wrong in every regard.
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Ok I am going to have to dig up Sundars RP's if they are still able to be found. Secondly Sundar never made prophecy, thirdly I complained OOC because it was ridiculous serving in a realm of roleplay telepaths, and lastly you didn't like the fact that Sundars roleplay was the only person ever to roleplay around you that didn't lick your balls, you couldn't handle it and you had issues with it instead of being a good sport and interacting with Sundar, you had a hissy fit and wouldn't do it because Sundars whole roleplay was about being a two faced, fake noble who wanted to be king. Dude you have serious mental problems when you have to put a guy on ignore because you don't like his roleplays...get over yourself
Sadly I just checked Sundars RP's are all gone from the list, anyone else able to post them?
One person used stuff from the roleplays. I would also note that many of those roleplays were about Sundar doing things in public, and again, you sent a lot of letters early on that did nothing good for Sundar's rep.
Jenred is a paranoid psychotic who enjoys murdering people with his bare hands if he thinks they deserved it. He runs Arcaea like a dictatorship. As a former adventurer Sundar's obsession with luxury offended him. All these are in-character things.
And why should Jenred have interacted with Sundar? No reasons were given.
I put you on ignore after you went nuts and starting accusing everyone in the realm of OOC issues. Evidently you decided you were only "drunk" or some such nonsense, but by that point, I just didn't care anymore. I didn't read Sundar's roleplays for months before you took it OOC, so I really don't have the faintest idea what you're talking about with Sundar wanting to be king.
I don't care about what people do in-character. Sundar could have started a rebellion, and Matt would have thought it was cool. I care when someone starts whining OOC because he didn't get a position when he didn't do anything to get the one person in the realm who got to award those positions on his side, and actively did things that pissed off that same person.
You wanted voting and elections for the positions. That's fine. Go to a republic, a democracy, somewhere that actually wants those things. Arcaea is, and has been, effectively a dictatorship for years.
To sum up: I don't care what you do in-character. You defame me OOC and it pisses me the hell off.
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A useless flop who happens to be a noble and if you ever watched Caligula, being a useless flop never stopped thousands of useless flops from running kingdoms and holding positions of power. If Arcacea wasn't so bent on being a powerhouse, they might allow RP outside of dainty romance to survive in a mostly silent realm of over 75 nobles...Wonder why? Its because most of the realms nobles are there to 'win' and 'win' only.
No one stopped your RP's you obviously just didn't do anything to earn the respect or attention of those that had the power to elevate you. Like all realms there are more nobles wanting positions then there are positions and every realm has different ways to decide this. Least in Arcaea you don't need to be a long time friend of the Ruler to get anywhere. We played our character IN character, and it just so happens that Arcaea is a military orientated realm, thus those interested and able to demonstrate military ability tend to get promoted, as that is what our characters look for. There is no need to whine about OOC motives when there is a clear IC reason for being overlooked.
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Ok will accept that then with you speaking so clearly and civil about the problems regarding Sundars roleplay. Thankyou. I do admit my OOC rant was uncalled for, I had quit smoking around that time and would often go into kind of mental retardation mode. I will erase Sundar.
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Sadly I just checked Sundars RP's are all gone from the list, anyone else able to post them?
Did you send them to the RP e-mail list? I have the last two years of the list available. What was your name/email address on the list?
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RP email list? I never heard of this.
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It hasn't been very popular for the past few years. Especially not the last year. It kind of fell into disuse. One of the original intents of the Far East Island is that important RPs were to be sent to the RP e-mail list as well. Very heavily used back in 2005/2006.
Archives: http://news.battlemaster.org/pipermail/rpg/
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What we really need are examples of noble behaviour for the time period. I know that at some times in history nobility themselves were crude by the standards of later "courtly" times, but I have no references that might place when and where this was.
One of the knights who went on Crusade sat in the Byzantine Emperor's throne. His throne.
These guys weren't the epitimony of class here, and the whole point of the Renaissance was an active attempt to distance the new nobility from the old by being "civilised". At the same time knights could generally read and write, so they weren't completely terrible.
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One of the knights who went on Crusade sat in the Byzantine Emperor's throne. His throne.
These guys weren't the epitimony of class here, and the whole point of the Renaissance was an active attempt to distance the new nobility from the old by being "civilised". At the same time knights could generally read and write, so they weren't completely terrible.
Ah yes, well as much as Renaissance can be perceived as a cultural flow, though. Because by the time the 100-year war ended, all parties involved could not believe that, albeit they distanced themselves from the Middle Ages and made some scientific advances, the worst war in history had just ended (but waged for a long while under their watch).
About how nobles behave: there are some specific books from the Middle Ages that exactly describe the life of the "exemplar" nobility.
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Ah yes, well as much as Renaissance can be perceived as a cultural flow, though. Because by the time the 100-year war ended, all parties involved could not believe that, albeit they distanced themselves from the Middle Ages and made some scientific advances, the worst war in history had just ended (but waged for a long while under their watch).
About how nobles behave: there are some specific books from the Middle Ages that exactly describe the life of the "exemplar" nobility.
They could blame a lot of that on the mercaneries though, since many of the garrisons the English left behind in places were in fact mercaneries who decided... wait, the entire campaign of the Black Prince (who in England is thought of fondly, much like the way that "The Black Watch" is one of the most famous British/Highland brigades - a great-uncle of mine in 1936 left his hometown and travelled all the way up to the Highlands to join) was about pillaging the south of France until there was nothing left. His entire army was full of mercaneries, so my point sorta stands up except that they were acting under his orders. They did their own pillaging later on as well.
That said it was the worst war that the French and English had fought, not the worst in all history to that stage.
Anyway, back on topic. The noble "guides" of the Renaissance (like Baldassarre Castiglione's "The Courtier", which was turned by the English from a novel into step-by-step How To Guide) are influenced by the knightly culture instilled by the 12th century troubadours. A perfect example of the archetypal medieval knight however would be Sir William Marshal. On the one hand he was full of all the qualities of knights that were most admired, and even told his squire upon his deathbed that the three qualities a knight must have are Wisdom (to give ones liege good counsel), Fidelity (to your liege) and Valour (the ability to kick ass and take names). He then had a singing lesson with his daughters. On the other hand he also owned a torture chamber and frequented it regularly.