BattleMaster Community
BattleMaster => Development => Feature Requests => Topic started by: JPierreD on February 13, 2012, 04:58:56 AM
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I made the noob mistake of joining my first tournament not knowing I would not be able to do anything in it, including paying the troops. Luckily while I was still on my way my troops complained about not being paid in some time, so I had time to return, pay them and go back to the tournament, only losing a few turns, coins and one point of honor.
It would be nice if there was either a small text warning you to pay your troops if you have them before joining the tournament, for you will not be able to pay them there, or gave you the options to pay them and join it or leave without having payed them.
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You will not be able to do anything else until the tournament is over.
this is what it currently says, maybe it needs to be in big red letters but people probable still won't read it.
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this is what it currently says, maybe it needs to be in big red letters but people probable still won't read it.
Do you have access to the text to quote it here? Perhaps I simply missed it.
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(http://gyazo.com/b196a425e1f89a37a93c3f9f4e70f953.png?1329119433)
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It is under actions, right? Perhaps a gentle reminder that it includes paying your troops would be nice. Now I hear it happened with another noble, and that was not his first tournament as me.
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BM is a game that doesn't do handholding. I know the current trend in gaming is to tell you "press space to jump" for the first 10 hours of gameplay and then forever in loading-screen "hints", but I'm not joining that trend.
The basic principle of BM is the Unix principle: The game assumes that you know what you are doing and are aware of the consequences.
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BM is a game that doesn't do handholding. I know the current trend in gaming is to tell you "press space to jump" for the first 10 hours of gameplay and then forever in loading-screen "hints", but I'm not joining that trend.
The basic principle of BM is the Unix principle: The game assumes that you know what you are doing and are aware of the consequences.
However, Unix generally assumes that because there are always man pages to find out.
I don't think it would be beyond the pale to extend that "won't be able to do anything" notice to explicitly state that you won't be able to pay your men until you return.
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However, Unix generally assumes that because there are always man pages to find out.
I don't think it would be beyond the pale to extend that "won't be able to do anything" notice to explicitly state that you won't be able to pay your men until you return.
I've gotten caught by this several times. I simply don't attend tournaments often enough to remember to pay my men first.
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I've gotten caught by this several times.
Same here. Well, not *many* times, but I've done it. Luckily I got back before they deserted. 8)
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Hmm... perhaps an option to pay your men in advance? Nothing mandatory, just something you can do to not have to worry about it later.
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However, Unix generally assumes that because there are always man pages to find out.
Wiki
I don't think it would be beyond the pale to extend that "won't be able to do anything" notice to explicitly state that you won't be able to pay your men until you return.
The problem isn't that someone thought the "anything" would exclude troop payment. It was that someone didn't pay attention to the sentence at all. So anything we add to it would've been ignored just the same.
Yes, we could calculate the time until tournament and pop up a warning. The most user-friendly solution would be to do that and show a direct link to troop payment if and only if the tournament duration + current unpaid days is above the limit for troops getting tricky.
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The problem isn't that someone thought the "anything" would exclude troop payment. It was that someone didn't pay attention to the sentence at all. So anything we add to it would've been ignored just the same.
So the Devs and players that posted here all ignored the sentence, even having read it before? Or could it be perhaps a common mistake to which many people are subject to? I mean, people are entitled not to be paying attention to everything, and unless you want to punish that, why not putting a small little warning?
Yes, we could calculate the time until tournament and pop up a warning. The most user-friendly solution would be to do that and show a direct link to troop payment if and only if the tournament duration + current unpaid days is above the limit for troops getting tricky.
It would be indeed the most user-friendly. What I was suggesting was something simpler to avoid you too much work (just slightly changing the text, or always giving you the option to pay your troops before joining it).
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the most "friendly" thing would actually be.. troops get paid by autopay whether you are at tournament or in prison (for example)
because you have an underling to lug the gold around to do the paying... (though... if judges can steal off you, i guess the underling gets taken with you too)
though i think this has been shot down a zillion times.
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Yes, we could calculate the time until tournament and pop up a warning. The most user-friendly solution would be to do that and show a direct link to troop payment if and only if the tournament duration + current unpaid days is above the limit for troops getting tricky.
Yeah, that's probably best. We'll also almost always be displaying it, since most tournaments are 7 days, and when you add in the aftertour and return, it comes to 8, which is long enough that any unit will at least be complaining.
Another thing to keep in mind is autopayment. Even though it might be reasonable to interpret "you can't do anything" to mean "you can't click on Pay your men", I think many or most people would expect their autopay settings to still work if they don't already know that they won't. Heck, it caught me out at least once.
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Part of the problem with troops is that, well, most people don't pay their own troops. They use autopay. Troop payment doesn't exactly take a very prominent place in your zone of awareness.
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BM is a game that doesn't do handholding. I know the current trend in gaming is to tell you "press space to jump" for the first 10 hours of gameplay and then forever in loading-screen "hints", but I'm not joining that trend.
The basic principle of BM is the Unix principle: The game assumes that you know what you are doing and are aware of the consequences.
Funny how that isn't posted on the front page. What it does say is:
BattleMaster is a light-weight game that can be played alongside your other activities
New features are being added and gameplay and balance are constantly tweaked to improve the game further.
currently being redesigned with accessibility in mind (for our disabled players) and XHTML 1.0 transitional compliance.
How, exactly, is not reminding players that their troops won't autopay, fall in line with those three statements? Is requiring players to think about paying their troops a light-weight thing? Is adding a troop pay reminder not going to improve the game? Is keeping the reminder text out going to make it more accessible, whether you have a disability or not?
Tom, we don't expect a ton of hand-holding. But the page does not explicitly state that autopay will not function while at tournament and you cannot expect every player of a light-weight game to go read the wiki to find out that your character not being able to do anything else while at the tournament, actually means that your entire staff will be unable to pay your soldiers.
It's a simple text change. Adding a link to the pay page would be nice, too. Fixing autopay would be even better.
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Yeah, that's probably best. We'll also almost always be displaying it, since most tournaments are 7 days, and when you add in the aftertour and return, it comes to 8, which is long enough that any unit will at least be complaining.
But if you are close by, you can join late.
I'd say we check for the autopay setting and pop up a warning if absence > autopay, and if no autopay is set, we pop up a warning if it's more than 8 or 9 days.
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You misrepresent what "accessibility" means in this context.
And I'm not saying it's not happening. I am discussing what to do about it, am I not?
Tom, we don't expect a ton of hand-holding. But the page does not explicitly state that autopay will not function while at tournament
It also doesn't explicitly stay 100 other things you can't do at a tournament. I'm just trying to find a solution that will not lead to the next "but I also can't do X at tourneys".
Adding some more intelligence than adding a link seems proper to me. At the very least, it should check if you even have a unit.
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Fixing autopay would be even better.
Is it intended to work that way or is it a bug?
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I'd say we check for the autopay setting and pop up a warning if absence > autopay, and if no autopay is set, we pop up a warning if it's more than 8 or 9 days.
Can't we just let autopay continue to work while you're at the tournament?
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Can't we just let autopay continue to work while you're at the tournament?
Yeah, I think that's the easiest solution. Tournament yes, but not prison.
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Can't we just let autopay continue to work while you're at the tournament?
Someone complained people near the place the tournament is hosted might abuse arriving early and training for free. I personally don't think that "free training" is all that good, but I guess it's worth mentioning.
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How is that an abuse? Sheesh.... people will complain about *anything*....
Tell them if they want more "free training" they can host their own tournament.
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It's not an abuse because it is absolutely intentional that you can get free training at a tournament. It's one of the things that draws people towards a tournament who don't have a realistic chance of winning.
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And I think training in the tournament is the only way to train over 80%?
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And I think training in the tournament is the only way to train over 80%?
or actual combat...and duels.
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I havent seen combat increasing my skill other than leadership for so long I am starting to wonder if it only increases skill at the beginning.
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And I think training in the tournament is the only way to train over 80%?
The only training. A lot of people get their skill raises from actually using a skill. If you fight a lot, you will see your swordfighting and leadership rise quite nicely without spending any time on training.