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BattleMaster => Helpline => Topic started by: JPierreD on February 27, 2012, 07:03:08 AM
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In Riombara the Duke and Lord of Fwuvoghor recently left the realm and sailed to another island. Being the realm a Republic elections opened. I was under the impression only Tyrannies and Theocracies could have their Rulers appointing themselves as Dukes, but ours did it as well, appearing this message:
Ambassador of Riombara has appointed Hvrek Psyche to the vacant duke position of Fwuvoghor.
And after that, we received this message:
The winning choice therefore is Gregorian, with 4 votes. A simple majority was required, i.e. 1 vote. Due to the tie, a random draw decided the winning choice.
Unfortunately, the lordship is already taken by Hvrek Psyche, High Chancellor of Riombara, Duke of Fwuvoghor, Marquess of Fwuvoghor, Marshal of the Army of the Sun, Ambassador of Riombara. Therefore, Gregorian can not be proclaimed. The successful referendum does create a minor claim, though.
Is this all intended behavior?
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Yes, the new duchy/estate system does not yet make a difference between government systems. Mostly because we are considering changes in that area.
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Unfortunately, the lordship is already taken by Hvrek Psyche, High Chancellor of Riombara, Duke of Fwuvoghor, Marquess of Fwuvoghor, Marshal of the Army of the Sun, Ambassador of Riombara. Therefore, Gregorian can not be proclaimed.
Protest storm!
Seriously, you Riombarans are so silly... It's like a parody of itself now. You elected, of all people, Hvrek Pscyhe as your ruler, and didn't anticipate these kinds of antics? Your realm must be full of young whippersnappers that haven't bothered studying local history. ::)
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Protest storm!
Seriously, you Riombarans are so silly... It's like a parody of itself now. You elected, of all people, Hvrek Pscyhe as your ruler, and didn't anticipate these kinds of antics? Your realm must be full of young whippersnappers that haven't bothered studying local history. ::)
Aaaand he was now protested out, and his head is being asked.
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Protest storm!
Seriously, you Riombarans are so silly... It's like a parody of itself now. You elected, of all people, Hvrek Pscyhe as your ruler, and didn't anticipate these kinds of antics? Your realm must be full of young whippersnappers that haven't bothered studying local history. ::)
Would that many people left in Riombara even REMEMBER the Pscyhe family and the stupid antics they got up to in Alluran back when there was still a Alluran realm?
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Would that many people left in Riombara even REMEMBER the Pscyhe family and the stupid antics they got up to in Alluran back when there was still a Alluran realm?
I think more people outside of Riombara remember than people in Riombara. And those in Riombara who do remember were probably of the Alluran bunch to begin with anyways.
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I think more people outside of Riombara remember than people in Riombara. And those in Riombara who do remember were probably of the Alluran bunch to begin with anyways.
Yes but the ones that supported Pscyhe mostly ended up in Enweil after the Dominion of Alluran destroyed the Kingdom of Alluran. Those that ended up in Rio mostly came from the Dominion after the monsters destroyed the Dominion in the fourth invasion so chances are any Alluran in Rio probably fought against the last incarnation of the Pscyhe family. From memory we killed of the religion after that war as well.
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Yes but the ones that supported Pscyhe mostly ended up in Enweil after the Dominion of Alluran destroyed the Kingdom of Alluran. Those that ended up in Rio mostly came from the Dominion after the monsters destroyed the Dominion in the fourth invasion so chances are any Alluran in Rio probably fought against the last incarnation of the Pscyhe family. From memory we killed of the religion after that war as well.
What religion?
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What religion?
Alluran was the religion that he ran. I believe when his family disappeared it was destroyed, but I can't really remember.
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Alluran was the religion that he ran. I believe when his family disappeared it was destroyed, but I can't really remember.
Spoilers: Not at all, the Order of Alluran is very strong still.
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Spoilers: Not at all, the Order of Alluran is very strong still.
Is it the same? I thought it was refounded.
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well.. he runs it.. so what's the difference?
2 family 3 priests XD (was 4 until the last day or 2)
apathy would be the answer to most questions.
... anyway.. the gripe is not that we protested him out.. but we didn't get to rebel and strip the duke/lord....
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well.. he runs it.. so what's the difference?
None, just historical accuracy.
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Yup refounded by his new family.
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Spoilers: Not at all, the Order of Alluran is very strong still.
Indeed. It's the number 1 reason Fheuv'n declared war on Rio, Rio's ruler is the head of it, declared us evil, then came to Fheuv'n continuously to preach and even incited riots and violence. Alluran is continuously antagonizing Fheuv'n and Enweil under the instructions of Rio's ruler.
I heard they kicked him out. Seems like harassing neighbours in an invasion was fine, but appointing himself to a lordship wasn't. Go figure.
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Yup refounded by his new family.
The Alluran religion has been started at least three times. Perhaps four.
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I heard they kicked him out. Seems like harassing neighbours in an invasion was fine, but appointing himself to a lordship wasn't. Go figure.
Actually, first objections against Hvrek started because of the harassing of Riombaran neighbors, although more precisely with the way he has done it by breaking tons of laws and placing Riombara in a morally ambiguous position. However, since the regular elections were just a few days away no orchestrated effort was made to protest him out, but there were many public accusations against him. Hvrek, facing the fact that he lost all political credibility, decided to get the best of it by appointing himself as the Lord of Fwuvoghor. I think it was mostly done out of spite. However, that indeed made Riombara protest him out due to the fear that he may secede.
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...eh.. i don't fear no secession. that would be a way to get rid of his royal status.
probably end up exiling him... can't use banks whilst exiled, right?
perhaps give the region to enweil? XD
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probably end up exiling him... can't use banks whilst exiled, right?
Correct. And you no longer receive taxes in gold...
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Correct. And you no longer receive taxes in gold...
eh you don't receive tax in gold anymore anyway... (in testing that is)
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That's kind of what I meant. You get your taxes in bonds, and then can't use the bank. Sooner or later you will run out of money. YOu can still trade, though, as that all uses bonds.
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Alluran is pretty much the only religion in Rio since I let Qyrvaggism die and it's definitely the most powerful one in the South.
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yah.. i can't be bothered to keep a 1 priest dead religion alive either..
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Shame the Blight's in the way. I'd send a missionary or two down!
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Shame the Blight's in the way. I'd send a missionary or two down!
And I'd send some up. :P
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And they'd be executed. IVF isn't liked by anyone?
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Alluran is pretty much the only religion in Rio since I let Qyrvaggism die and it's definitely the most powerful one in the South.
Really? I though it only had about 7 members.
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And they'd be executed. IVF isn't liked by anyone?
We are the only ones who give a damn about Fronen. Also, who else would we give a damn to preach to other than Fronen anyways? Let daimon worship overrun the rest!
Really? I though it only had about 7 members.
And a tonload of peasant followers. Notably in Enweil and Fheuv'n.
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And now he seceded the city. You guys really should have rebelled.
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I thought secession required 3 weeks being part of the Duchy. I didn't think he could secede just yet. Or he was already part of the Duchy of Fwuoghor, but I don't think that was the case.
We were preparing a Rebellion, but Hvrek was protested out right away. Didn't expect that to happen. Normally they just lose some honour and prestige the first round.
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The new system probably doesn't have all of the restrictions the old one did? Not sure...
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I'm guessing it's something like that yeah :)
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Alluran is pretty much the only religion in Rio since I let Qyrvaggism die...
Or did it.... 8)
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secession is no big deal.. the religious strikes would hurt more. for that matter, once he's seceded, he's put himself in the firing line.. otherwise.. not much can be done about an exiled royal duke with food from a food selling region headed by a priest of same religion
.... of daimons help him, they would do so either way.. XD
ps... religion ... obviously, there are peasants who are daimon worshippers....
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secession is no big deal.. the religious strikes would hurt more. for that matter, once he's seceded, he's put himself in the firing line.. otherwise.. not much can be done about an exiled royal duke with food from a food selling region headed by a priest of same religion
.... of daimons help him, they would do so either way.. XD
ps... religion ... obviously, there are peasants who are daimon worshippers....
Is now the time he finds out that RTO's don't work on testing islands?
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I went to declare war, and suddenly there's a bunch of New Riombaras?
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Probably because Hvrek got a bug when he tried to secede earlier.
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Meh. Not Hvrek Psyche again. That is the name I have not hear in a long long time.
I did myself a favor by posting this letter over and over again in Colonies island to those younger realmmates. Enjoy and savor the history why their family name was banned previously and why he recreated a new one :P
http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Ketchum_Family (http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Ketchum_Family)
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Actually, RTOs again work again. That's something I've watched on bugtracker for a long time.
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Actually, RTOs again work again. That's something I've watched on bugtracker for a long time.
hehe. This should be fun to watch.
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think he tried and failed
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Yep. He even invested in the region to get Control down sufficiently.
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Yep. He even invested in the region to get Control down sufficiently.
Haha. Amusing, though it does sound abusive. A different way to finance rebels, I guess...
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Well, it's a double-edged sword any way. Now his investment is going straight to Riombara.
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Well, it's a double-edged sword any way. Now his investment is going straight to Riombara.
Which of his two priest did he try it with?
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Darren Psyche did the Investment and then tried to take control. Hvrek isn't a Priest any more last I checked.
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Well, it's a double-edged sword any way. Now his investment is going straight to Riombara.
Can't he try again?
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Can't he try again?
So long as he isn't wounded/Arrested. Having any unit in the region really hampers RTO's though, so maybe he has that to worry about.
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Darren has been arrested now. Riombara has an unit in Melegra to guard the region. Any Priests that wander into that region will likely end up being arrested as well.
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Actually, RTOs again work again. That's something I've watched on bugtracker for a long time.
RTO eh? How I wish I can direct transfer my priest to a religious war somewhere else. Her skill will come in demand~~
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RTO eh? How I wish I can direct transfer my priest to a religious war somewhere else. Her skill will come in demand~~
The Way could use more priests...
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The Way could use more priests...
Where is The Way located? Which island and realm is that? :o
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The Church of Humanity always needs more priests (both on Beluaterra and EC), though we only would do RTOs against daimon cults/daimon holdings on BT.
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Where is The Way located? Which island and realm is that? :o
Fheuv'n, in Beluaterra.
We got founded recently, but we are making good progress.
The Church of Humanity always needs more priests (both on Beluaterra and EC), though we only would do RTOs against daimon cults/daimon holdings on BT.
Can't RTO the Netherworld. You can RTO other humans fine, however.
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RTOs never go well... once you start using a religions as a tool of war, they usual end up getting smashed. Like the Flow from Fontan...
I thought the dev team got rid of RTOs for the new TO system?
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RTOs never go well... once you start using a religions as a tool of war, they usual end up getting smashed. Like the Flow from Fontan...
I thought the dev team got rid of RTOs for the new TO system?
I've used religion to good effect, and seen others to so as well.
It's all about context.
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RTOs never go well... once you start using a religions as a tool of war, they usual end up getting smashed. Like the Flow from Fontan...
I thought the dev team got rid of RTOs for the new TO system?
No, there never was such a thing as an "RTO." That's just the colloquial name for the Declare Religious State option for priests.
It has never had anything to do with the takeover code, and I'm growing increasingly convinced that it needs a nerf.
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No, there never was such a thing as an "RTO." That's just the colloquial name for the Declare Religious State option for priests.
It has never had anything to do with the takeover code, and I'm growing increasingly convinced that it needs a nerf.
I've always wondered why Autodafe requires a temple of a certain level, yet there is not requirement to have a temple in the region for declaring a religious state. Troops of any kind make RTO's rather difficult, and there is the loyalty restriction, but I think requiring a temple of the religion might be a good thing as well.
RTOs never go well... once you start using a religions as a tool of war, they usual end up getting smashed. Like the Flow from Fontan...
I thought the dev team got rid of RTOs for the new TO system?
There were bugs with it to start with. Looks like its all been fixed now.
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I've always wondered why Autodafe requires a temple of a certain level, yet there is not requirement to have a temple in the region for declaring a religious state. Troops of any kind make RTO's rather difficult, and there is the loyalty restriction, but I think requiring a temple of the religion might be a good thing as well.
May as well scrap the option altogether, while you are at it.
It can only be declared by an elder in a region with 80% following. It's pretty darn difficult to have 80% following in your own regions, never mind enemy regions.
Religion spread is easy to fend off. Maybe not the first 40%, but it's rather easy to keep no higher than that. If you let foreigners control your peasants like this, you deserve to be at their mercy.
Then there's other cases like Hvrek, where the other old faith died and he got a lot of lingering power over Riombaran regions. Suck it up. This is the result of Riombara giving great freedoms to the Order of Alluran for quite a while now, it wasn't done overnight. Be careful who you give such powers to.
This is, imo, the only way for religions to have any sort of tool to defend themselves. They deserve it. Without it, religions are defenseless. Because really, except for small depopulated regions, the only real targets for RTOs are long-time assets of the faith. It's not really a tool of aggression, but rather a tool to protect one's assets against realms and lords who can otherwise crush years of efforts with impunity by just clicking a few buttons.
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May as well scrap the option altogether, while you are at it.
It can only be declared by an elder in a region with 80% following. It's pretty darn difficult to have 80% following in your own regions, never mind enemy regions.
Religion spread is easy to fend off. Maybe not the first 40%, but it's rather easy to keep no higher than that. If you let foreigners control your peasants like this, you deserve to be at their mercy.
Then there's other cases like Hvrek, where the other old faith died and he got a lot of lingering power over Riombaran regions. Suck it up. This is the result of Riombara giving great freedoms to the Order of Alluran for quite a while now, it wasn't done overnight. Be careful who you give such powers to.
This is, imo, the only way for religions to have any sort of tool to defend themselves. They deserve it. Without it, religions are defenseless. Because really, except for small depopulated regions, the only real targets for RTOs are long-time assets of the faith. It's not really a tool of aggression, but rather a tool to protect one's assets against realms and lords who can otherwise crush years of efforts with impunity by just clicking a few buttons.
You are doing it wrong then. On FEI I was quite happily RTOing regions held by an enemy theocracy.
But neglecting that, in general if the region has 80% followers, then it is DAMN likely to have a temple don't you think? If you don't have a temple there, then you really aren't that established in the region. Just my opinion. The main thing this would stop is using RTO's on depopulated rogue regions.
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I've always liked the RTO option, but that's obvious. The thing I don't like about requiring temples though, is that temples are something a lord has to build. While it is advantageous to a faith to have support from lords, I don't see why it should be a requirement to RTO a region. The concept of an RTO is to claim the region for the faith FROM HEATHENS, not to claim a region that already readily accepts the faith. 80% is damned hard to pull of in some areas. Not to mention that you can get caught at any time, even without a single military unit there.
For most faiths that have such large followings it is because of numerous highly trained priests, well established followers that spread out, and a fairly elaborate infrastructure of shrines and temples to maintain and spread the faith. It's not like Joe Shmoe starts a faith and then immediately claims every region he can travel to. It takes lots of time, gold, and patient politicking to build a steady foundation.
As far as Auto de fe, I'm okay with it the way it is now. If any change, I wouldn't require a temple, but I get it. The region is already faithful, and is now trying to cast out heathen lords to resume a more faithful government.
If claiming a region required a temple, than auto da fe should not. The concept is either make way for the faith to come into power, or to restore that power. By making both require temples make it so you can only reclaim, which gives religion nothing but crap.
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I've always liked the RTO option, but that's obvious. The thing I don't like about requiring temples though, is that temples are something a lord has to build. While it is advantageous to a faith to have support from lords, I don't see why it should be a requirement to RTO a region. The concept of an RTO is to claim the region for the faith FROM HEATHENS, not to claim a region that already readily accepts the faith. 80% is damned hard to pull of in some areas. Not to mention that you can get caught at any time, even without a single military unit there.
For most faiths that have such large followings it is because of numerous highly trained priests, well established followers that spread out, and a fairly elaborate infrastructure of shrines and temples to maintain and spread the faith. It's not like Joe Shmoe starts a faith and then immediately claims every region he can travel to. It takes lots of time, gold, and patient politicking to build a steady foundation.
As far as Auto de fe, I'm okay with it the way it is now. If any change, I wouldn't require a temple, but I get it. The region is already faithful, and is now trying to cast out heathen lords to resume a more faithful government.
If claiming a region required a temple, than auto da fe should not. The concept is either make way for the faith to come into power, or to restore that power. By making both require temples make it so you can only reclaim, which gives religion nothing but crap.
Yes to reclaim a region that was once so closely aligned with the faith that the THEN Lord established a temple. Reclaiming the region from the current heathens that pollute it. Much would hinge on the exact purpose Tom intended for RTO's which I confess I have no knowledge of.
While Autodafe can be used to kick out a Lord, it can also be used to kick out knights. To equate it to RTO's is rather odd. Sure both can remove Lords but their intended usage case is very different.
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But neglecting that, in general if the region has 80% followers, then it is DAMN likely to have a temple don't you think? If you don't have a temple there, then you really aren't that established in the region. Just my opinion. The main thing this would stop is using RTO's on depopulated rogue regions.
As would adding a minimum follower count for it to work, without making it totally useless.
Yes to reclaim a region that was once so closely aligned with the faith that the THEN Lord established a temple. Reclaiming the region from the current heathens that pollute it. Much would hinge on the exact purpose Tom intended for RTO's which I confess I have no knowledge of.
While Autodafe can be used to kick out a Lord, it can also be used to kick out knights. To equate it to RTO's is rather odd. Sure both can remove Lords but their intended usage case is very different.
Except you usually learn that you want to cast out a heathen lord AFTER to closes the temple, making it impossible to use this option in revenge. Imo, it's a bad requirement that should be lifted. Makes no sense for auto da fe to require a medium temple, but not declare religious state.