BattleMaster Community
BattleMaster => Locals => Beluaterra => Topic started by: Sypher on March 17, 2011, 05:53:34 AM
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I know that an actual change to Beluaterra's map is unlikely since it would be a lot of work on Tom and the Dev team.
But, it would be interesting if when the blight is removed the areas under blight were changed. I imagine areas previously fertile being badlands and parts sunk into the ocean by earthquakes or other forces. The west has the largest area under blight. I could imagine parts of it under water and islands or a new mountain range.
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That would be pretty interesting. If the blighted regions we can't see at all (aka not border-regions) was totally changed up and we had a group of island or all cities under the blight were turned to stone (strongholds) and their stats were changed. Also when the map in revealed, keep it banner-less like Dwilight so we would actually have to search to find out this info.
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Good idea, but it's something the community could do on it's own. It costs maybe a couple of quid to buy Age of Wonders on Steam, Good Old Games and Impulse nowadays and that has the editor that was used to make the original BM maps. There's also this page (http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Talk:Battlemaster_Maps) on the wiki that has a few resources and plenty of samples for helping with the copy/pasting and stuff so you could edit the Beluaterra map to your hearts content even without AoW. The only thing I think would be hardest was keeping the original city sizes and artwork consistent, or making everything look consistently black and ashen or maybe inferitle and desertlike. or what have you. Though most eventualities look to be fairly well covered by the samples on the wiki there.
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It sounds definitely possible by the community, although for now, it sounds like the regions are supposed to be inaccessible. If in the future they become accessible again, then if anything, we might want some mechanics that would remind us that we lost those regions, that the price for losing them means lower max population, stats, possibly higher spawn rates of monsters and undead in their general blight areas, and...I have no clue about the general daimon areas.
Anyway, enjoy this one.
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I'll play around with age of wonders, maybe I can post some images of what I'm thinking of.
Off the top of my head, I'd try to make the blighted areas reflect which invader took it. The regions were transformed by the invaders who took the region right so makes sense for them to reflect that. So Monster blight in the south would be more wild, forests, jungles, swamps. The undead didn't take any large areas but the ice could extend further south, maybe the forests would be dead. I'll see what I can think of. The west, where the Daimons took over, would see the most dramatic of changes since its the largest blighted section. Maybe a volcano where Eykfar was?
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I always thought about just sinking the blighted areas. It would make the island look different from Atamara. Although I suppose it would make it a lot smaller and prevent a larger ammount of realms. I'm interested to see what happens. I actually think we'll get our regions back.
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How about turning blighted regions into badland or volcanic land? Cities into crumbling ruins? or into island cities? Sinking those regions will be too cruel :)
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I suspect the best idea would be to keep them covered until the new estate system is worked out. That will open up a lot more possibilities for the lands no doubt. Once they are uncovered, I'm thinking that people will need to do a lot of work in the regions to improve them back to what they were, including gold investments in the new estates, etc.
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Once they are uncovered...
If I were you, I would stop thinking that they ever will be.
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Aye. We lost part of the Continent. It ain't coming back.
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If I were you, I would stop thinking that they ever will be.
Heh, I've never even set foot on Beluaterra. I was simply following on from the train of thought as seen in the starting post ;)
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Aye. We lost part of the Continent. It ain't coming back.
Portal stones?
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Portal stones?
No.
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Portal stones?
Does that black fog look like a portal to you?
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Does that black fog look like a portal to you?
No, it looks like somewhere the Human Armies of the World should Invade for Part Five of Beluaterra's Exciting Adventure :D
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Which will probably occur in Beyond, if anything. Let's help make that happen.
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No, it looks like somewhere the Human Armies of the World should Invade for Part Five of Beluaterra's Exciting Adventure :D
I like that. The black fog starts disappearing only to reveal ravaged lands of all types of monsters! Giants taller than our towers should be included with some special mechanics of a super-tough 1-man unit that crushes armiesss! Flying enemies that can only be killed by archers. Deadly poisonous monsters that will kill your unit over time (3 men first day, poison spreads and 2 die the next day, etc).
And this time, personally, I would rather no NPC be run by players. These players can go inactive as seen in the 4th invasion and it stop the ball from rolling.
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Have you seen what comes out of the blight already?
Besides, why do people keep persisting about uncovering the blight? Everyone was given plenty of warning that parts or all of Beluaterra could have been lost. As it stands, not too much of the continent is inaccessible, so even if I might sound harsh in saying this: Stop crying over spilled milk.
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Have you seen what comes out of the blight already?
Besides, why do people keep persisting about uncovering the blight? Everyone was given plenty of warning that parts or all of Beluaterra could have been lost. As it stands, not too much of the continent is inaccessible, so even if I might sound harsh in saying this: Stop crying over spilled milk.
Yes, I was in Enweil for quite a while battling all the monsters. Why? Because under it is where a lot of history has gone down, many opportunities could be made, and because Beluaterra isn't Beluaterra with this damned blight. We want our old continent back so the fun times will return!
And to be honest, we know it's inaccessible. So let us do our thing and stop trying to stop a perfectly reasonable discussion. There's no harm in talking about it and I see no one crying.. or any spilled milk.
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Then please explain what the goal of discussing getting rid of blight is. It's not going to happen anytime soon, and thusfar ideas have been focused on material that would probably not occur anymore (Read: NPC-led invasions).
A map retexture might not be that hard, and, as originally suggested by the OP, the affected regions, if uncovered, should probably have some modifications. But then that would likely just bring on a slew of new complaints along the lines of "These regions suck" or "Monster spawning in Eno is too high".
But most importantly, why are we talking more about how to dispel the blight when the more fruitful questions might be what the invaders were doing? The blight was not the central aspect of the 4th Inv (at least it doesn't seem like it because it occurred three months after initiation). But where are discussions about that, OOC post-Invasion sharing of information gathered during the Invasion? There was a short-lived thread on the dlist, but that achieved little more than revealing who played the Light and Undead.
And what do I think about this? I think it's because the blight, and the somewhat increased (more tame now) rogue spawns, affect things tangibly in-game. All this story stuff about the invaders doesn't actually change anything in terms of numbers. Maybe the story aspect isn't lost on anyone, but the vast majority appears to be more concerned with things like region stats, expansion, and things related mechanically to the game. There's nothing wrong with that, and it makes sense. But I think we're looking in the wrong direction if that's our main concern. The 4th Inv was supposed to provide us with a neat story to uncover. Of course, we kind of muddled a bunch of it, but that's expected too. Still, I think the main point was the actual plot, not whatever mechanical things occurred afterwards.
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No, it looks like somewhere the Human Armies of the World should Invade for Part Five of Beluaterra's Exciting Adventure :D
haha That certainly could be interesting.
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Then please explain what the goal of discussing getting rid of blight is. It's not going to happen anytime soon, and thusfar ideas have been focused on material that would probably not occur anymore (Read: NPC-led invasions).
A map retexture might not be that hard, and, as originally suggested by the OP, the affected regions, if uncovered, should probably have some modifications. But then that would likely just bring on a slew of new complaints along the lines of "These regions suck" or "Monster spawning in Eno is too high".
But most importantly, why are we talking more about how to dispel the blight when the more fruitful questions might be what the invaders were doing? The blight was not the central aspect of the 4th Inv (at least it doesn't seem like it because it occurred three months after initiation). But where are discussions about that, OOC post-Invasion sharing of information gathered during the Invasion? There was a short-lived thread on the dlist, but that achieved little more than revealing who played the Light and Undead.
And what do I think about this? I think it's because the blight, and the somewhat increased (more tame now) rogue spawns, affect things tangibly in-game. All this story stuff about the invaders doesn't actually change anything in terms of numbers. Maybe the story aspect isn't lost on anyone, but the vast majority appears to be more concerned with things like region stats, expansion, and things related mechanically to the game. There's nothing wrong with that, and it makes sense. But I think we're looking in the wrong direction if that's our main concern. The 4th Inv was supposed to provide us with a neat story to uncover. Of course, we kind of muddled a bunch of it, but that's expected too. Still, I think the main point was the actual plot, not whatever mechanical things occurred afterwards.
Because talking about ridding the blight is fun and discussion can go where they please. This is topic about the Beluaterra Map, not some serious-centered discussion of what Beluaterra should do next - although I'm not stopping it from being so! I just want you to stop beating on those who talk about ridding the blight and what we think would be cool to happen if the fog ever does reveal the rest of the map. I see no reason not to, they are all ideas from the players that Tom can read and perhaps extract a few ideas from.
However, I consider the 4th invasion a large failure, but I'm not going to launch into that. If you want to discuss more about the Invasion, then make a new topic for it and I'm sure more players will interact and join in. Just don't try to block the discussion of other topics because it isn't realistic in-game
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You know what? Forget it, there's nothing for me to say to you.
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You take too much seriously. I and others are only contemplating what we would like to see come of the blight or Beluaterra. Wtf is so wrong with that?
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Knowing full well that the blight will be around for at least 2011, knowing full well that there will very likely be no more Invasions handled within the main game (at least in any form similar to how they've gone so far), an interesting discussion would involve creative suggestions that move around these two current limitations. Brainstorm ideas for a way to integrate Beyond or some similar expansion into the fold of the main game to unveil the story that would have been diverted under the influence of hundreds of characters.
Think about the alternate form of Invasions that seems to be the future, if they occur in any form at all. If you want to speculate on (most likely) impossible things that are (very probably) never going to happen, then there's no stopping it. But at a certain point it becomes a question of just why are we fantasizing about some aspect of the game that will most likely only ever exist in our minds? If you have something cohesive and/or interesting that's fiction, then share out the story so we can enjoy, but so far, there hasn't been anything cohesive or of any remarkable length.
The thing about this particular thread, is that it started about how the map might be altered, and yet, we have now deviated into a lot of imaginative things. That in itself is nothing bad, and I think you are also overreacting to my desire to see us back on topic. That, and my curiosity about whether people actually realize what happened in the 4th Inv wasn't some fluke or joke.
So on the actual topic...I see no maps, nor any attempts at them. I have given an attempt using Photoshop and the provided wiki textures, as well as some copy-pasting work, but the badlands textures don't behave. They appear "wrong" when they show any slightest discernible texture pattern. Also, I don't have AoW, and probably won't obtain it anytime. So for those who still remember the original intent of this thread, what is the progress, if any.
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The topic of what might happen with the blight, or what might be needed to remove it lies well within a reasonable deviation from the original post I think. Discussion evolve and take new directions, and until we move on to a completely separate topic, or completely dominate this one with idle speculation, there is no real need to split of the discussion.
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Yes, well, surely I can't be the only one other than maybe the OP who has even attempted to do anything with the map?
I could link you to my progress, but all you'd see is some poorly photomanipulated BT map that has the western desert area slightly expanded, nothing more.
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Always found it difficult to use photoshop to change up the maps. I would probably need to see exactly what is going wrong to suggest a fix.
Most people I know use the Age of Wonders level editor, but I've never really given that a go either. It was suggested that I could get hold of it for free, but I never really spent the time to work out if it is possible.
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Is it free? If so then I would use that. I currently have SCBW, WCIII (ROC not FT) and Battle for Wesnoth map editors. Those don't exactly provide anything vaguely resembling the BM maps.
But so far, it looks like I have to pay for AoW to use its map editor.
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yeah I can't find any free links for the editor. Though I did notice that the wikipedia entry for Age of Wonders references Battlemaster. That's right people we are still on wikipedia, even if we don't have our own page.
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For reference to the map modifications I've been doing (Fullsize map, 4 mb):
http://img853.imageshack.us/f/btmod.jpg/ (http://img853.imageshack.us/f/btmod.jpg/)
I think I have the wrong city graphic for Twillen. I also didn't like how the textures worked so I quit after a few minutes. I also can't figure out the unpredictable links Imageshack likes to use.
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Think about the alternate form of Invasions that seems to be the future, if they occur in any form at all. If you want to speculate on (most likely) impossible things that are (very probably) never going to happen, then there's no stopping it. But at a certain point it becomes a question of just why are we fantasizing about some aspect of the game that will most likely only ever exist in our minds? If you have something cohesive and/or interesting that's fiction, then share out the story so we can enjoy, but so far, there hasn't been anything cohesive or of any remarkable length.
I understand what you mean. If there is too much speculation, there is no real progress on the topic at hand. I realize that, but at the same time I can't help to think that the ideas that BattleMaster has developed and the updates it undergoes come purely from that point of fantasizing and turning it into something real. From my perspective that is a great "Top" about BM, creating an idea into something real. Part of BM is your imagaination.. how else would a colony think of turning into a realm without a little imagination?
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Progress report, because the commute was earlier than usual. Trying to do this on a train is a bit interesting. Also, I don't know the actual borders, so the blights were approximated. (Oh hey, Fianik disappeared.)
So far, I'd say about 90% of the blight is complete, but if you look closely you can see the parts where the pattern repeats, and some tears in the image. Also I can't change the land-water borders. All I have is Photoshop and the maps available, so if someone with actual AoW editor wants to make it look good, have at it.
(http://i841.photobucket.com/albums/zz332/Qmasterflex86/Battlemaster/BT_Mod_02-1.jpg)
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Uhh why is the southern regions covered with trees? was it always like that?
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Uhh why is the southern regions covered with trees? was it always like that?
No, I'm guessing the trees represent where the Monster's portals were. The same goes for blackened/scorched terrain = Daimons and Ice = Undead. Nice map layout. I'll try to find an AoW editor and play around with it.
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Yeah, that was generally the idea. There are other parts where the invaders had a mixture of blights, such as around Cteduul, and in the absence of knowing exactly who owned what, I kept the badlands, darkened Zod, and made Cteduul have lots of graves like Outer Tilog. The same goes for Ete City, as I forgot whether Monsters held that.
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Should something be done about Jiddington, Irombro, Eylmon, and Eno? They're still glittering white.
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I don't have the vegetation-growth city tilesets.
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Even if you just did more of the dull grey and brick cities it'd be better, like in the daemon badlands. Though having a glistening city of silver in the midst of monstrous woods does sound mildly epic.
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Why don't you turn monster occupied cities into ruins (pretty sure AoW has a razed city model?)? I doubt monsters would use a city if they like the forest so much.
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he is using photoshop, not the AOW editor. Thus he doesn't have access to all the AOW sprites.
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Even if you just did more of the dull grey and brick cities it'd be better, like in the daemon badlands. Though having a glistening city of silver in the midst of monstrous woods does sound mildly epic.
It holds true to the legacy of the one who conquered them, good of you to mention it.
/me poses for the *pun*cture.
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That joke was truly arcane, though I think you did it justice.
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I think it is Prudent not to be a Shambler when sharing Wisdom.
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The problem with editing the maps is I can't just download the picture and load it into the AoW editor - I need the actually Beluaterra AoW editor file to work on. I could attempt to re-create the BT map, but that would also take ages and ages.. the detail put into these maps is more than you would expect.
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One could save a set of graphics to use on the BT map as an image file, then use image editing software to make some clever manipulations via layers to create the final map.
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I'd say, mess a little more with sea land borders, maybe take some land(especialy from the blight), add some ocean and add more variation in vegetation on blight and snow.
i really like the jungle down south, but one of the small cities has to go, maybe turn it into a townsland, perhaps the city up north could also become a stronghold?
also turn some cities in old mesh Heen into townslands or strongholds.
Beluaterra should be different and allot smaller.
Don't you think?
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Actually, my plan for converting the coastline was to copy+paste some of the existing coastlines with the texture I want. That would necessarily alter the size and shape of the continent, and I think, why not?
After all, unless BT is some sort of bizarro parallel AT (They share borders, and even Cori is shared between the two), then the chances of two landmasses shaped exactly the same, with the same size, surrounded by ocean, in different geographic locations, would make the chances already near zero by geological perspective. From some more humanities perspective, the fact that the borders are exactly the same is not so much a problem, though still highly unlikely and contingent on the condition that the two continents are nearly identical physically.
That all aside, I just think if we are going to follow through with this idea, that we might as well make a nice change to BT's landscape to differentiate it from AT at a glance, not only from the now-old rumors about inhuman invaders.
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I think I may try to re-create the BT map into something new. Doesn't look like I'll be able to find an AoWEd file of the BT map anywhere. I'll show you what I've got in a few days. :-X
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I think I may try to re-create the BT map into something new. Doesn't look like I'll be able to find an AoWEd file of the BT map anywhere. I'll show you what I've got in a few days. :-X
Why not just go about it the same way Gias went about creating the Dwilight map?
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What did Gias do? :o
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Some info about that here http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Dwilight/OOC_History
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Oh, forgot that Panzer did the initial work. Whoops :)