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BattleMaster => Locals => Dwilight => Topic started by: Perth on April 04, 2012, 08:43:01 PM

Title: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Perth on April 04, 2012, 08:43:01 PM
*sigh* It is painfully clear that is has been a very long time since we Terrans have fought a war.  :-[
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Geronus on April 04, 2012, 09:01:17 PM
Ruh roh!
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Indirik on April 04, 2012, 10:08:16 PM
And the Kabrinskians won their realm by beating the snot out of Averoth and Caerwyn. :)

When you're used to beating up on monsters and undead, it takes a while to get used to facing real people again. Terran will figure it out pretty quickly.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Sacha on April 04, 2012, 10:23:19 PM
Hopefully for them, quickly enough :P
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Gustav Kuriga on April 05, 2012, 12:00:56 AM
the bad thing for Terran... that was only 2/3 of the army...
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Perth on April 05, 2012, 12:17:38 AM
the bad thing for Terran... that was only 2/3 of the army...

Well, yeah, that wasn't even half of Terran's.

Our rustiness is on the organizational/follow orders and be where you need to be side of things. Everyone is used to just doing whatever they want and most individual Lords deal with monsters in their region pretty much by themselves, maybe with help of a neighbor or anyone who is passing by. They aren't used to following movement orders to much.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Andrew on April 05, 2012, 04:55:34 AM
I was wondering about that... I think all of Barca was actually. We're all like "The only managed to gather 600 men? WTF?"
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: dustole on April 05, 2012, 06:51:49 AM
Out of curiosity, what kind of tax rates are most people on Dwilight running? 


I am trying to figure out why Terran's cities are only running a 14% tax rate...
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Vellos on April 05, 2012, 08:03:03 AM
When you're used to beating up on monsters and undead, it takes a while to get used to facing real people again. Terran will figure it out pretty quickly.

Yup. I OOCly figured we'd lose the first engagement if we didn't get a first strike, and Hireshmont ICly was determined not to make such a strike. But he is now fuming mad at the military types who he sees as having let down Terran.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: JPierreD on April 05, 2012, 08:11:38 AM
Out of curiosity, what kind of tax rates are most people on Dwilight running? 


I am trying to figure out why Terran's cities are only running a 14% tax rate...

Most players are still thinking in the old tax system's tolerance. Here go some taxes around the South-West:

Rurals - 9, 9, 11, 11, 11, 12, 12, 12, 13 and 15%
Townslands - 9, 10 and 12%
Cities - 15, 15, 16 and 17%
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: BardicNerd on April 05, 2012, 08:56:58 AM
Out of curiosity, what kind of tax rates are most people on Dwilight running? 


I am trying to figure out why Terran's cities are only running a 14% tax rate...
I run my rural at 17% and have to do nil work to keep it at perfect stats.  I'm thinking of seeing if I can get a little more out of it, given that we now have a war, and thus something to actually spend that gold on.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Perth on April 05, 2012, 09:41:54 AM
Yup. I OOCly figured we'd lose the first engagement if we didn't get a first strike, and Hireshmont ICly was determined not to make such a strike. But he is now fuming mad at the military types who he sees as having let down Terran.

Kale, and admittedly myself, are more than I little irked. I must have sent 5-6 order letters out (not counting the standing orders that were up the whole time) for about two weeks solid ordering all the Phantarians that war would break out any day and to rally in Lavendrow. WE HAD SEVEN OF THEM NOT IN LAVENDROW WHEN THE KABRINSKIANS HIT. I was upset.

If all of the Phantarians alone, not even counting Lowlanders (even some Lowlanders made it but not all Phantarians; hell the Senator of Larur made it!), had made it to Lavendrow we would have had the larger mobile CS force.

Not to mention the fact Kale goes around boasting about the elite quality of the Phantarians; it is his pride and joy, his everything. And after its first real engagement, Terran's first real war in literally forever, nobody rallies on time, we lose; Kale is the last to leave the field, his unit of 100 archers wiped out, and now he sits hanging onto to dear life with a serious/worsening injury!

Bleh!  >:(
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: egamma on April 05, 2012, 01:36:15 PM
Kale, and admittedly myself, are more than I little irked. I must have sent 5-6 order letters out (not counting the standing orders that were up the whole time) for about two weeks solid ordering all the Phantarians that war would break out any day and to rally in Lavendrow. WE HAD SEVEN OF THEM NOT IN LAVENDROW WHEN THE KABRINSKIANS HIT. I was upset.

If all of the Phantarians alone, not even counting Lowlanders (even some Lowlanders made it but not all Phantarians; hell the Senator of Larur made it!), had made it to Lavendrow we would have had the larger mobile CS force.

Not to mention the fact Kale goes around boasting about the elite quality of the Phantarians; it is his pride and joy, his everything. And after its first real engagement, Terran's first real war in literally forever, nobody rallies on time, we lose; Kale is the last to leave the field, his unit of 100 archers wiped out, and now he sits hanging onto to dear life with a serious/worsening injury!

Bleh!  >:(

Two weeks? Fine the !#@$!# out of those slackers, and give the gold to those who followed orders.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: dustole on April 05, 2012, 09:01:08 PM
Diplomatic News   (18 minutes ago)
The realms of Kabrinskia and Zuma Coalition have signed a peace treaty.



Evil Laugh
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Geronus on April 05, 2012, 10:36:58 PM
...What did you do?
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Gustav Kuriga on April 05, 2012, 10:44:31 PM
Nothing....
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: JPierreD on April 06, 2012, 12:26:03 AM
Just sold some worthless trinkets to the Zuma, like his soul and such...
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on April 06, 2012, 02:32:33 AM
Pshaww... Making peace with the Zuma is so last year like totally...
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Galvez on April 06, 2012, 03:15:08 PM
If I may ask, how do the other stargazers view the Terran-Kabrinskian war?
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Indirik on April 06, 2012, 03:19:48 PM
With varying shades of interest and disinterest. It is possible that it will escalate, especially if more of the moot piles on. I would love to see it stay Kabrinskia/Terran, but I doubt that will happen
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Galvez on April 06, 2012, 03:21:47 PM
Barca already declared war on Kabrinskia
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Indirik on April 06, 2012, 03:24:03 PM
Yeah, that was hard to miss.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Vellos on April 06, 2012, 03:55:01 PM
And with the rumors of FangFang marching south, it may get quite crazy.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Indirik on April 06, 2012, 04:46:48 PM
Spies!
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Galvez on April 07, 2012, 04:12:33 PM
And with the rumors of FangFang marching south, it may get quite crazy.
I do not hope so. Barca lays south of the Zuma.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Indirik on April 07, 2012, 04:17:22 PM
Fang Fang was up in Corridor of Torment. So, "marching south" doesn't necessarily imply "marching on Barca". He might be, though. So don't get too comfortable. :)
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on April 07, 2012, 04:30:55 PM
I think that the reason Kabrinskia is doing so well so far is that we are united in Faith as well as our commitment to punish Tarran for their insults and actions.  We would not have gone to war so quickly if Terran had not declared war on Kabrinskia. Tarran's whining on the ruler channel did not help their situation either.

As for the battles thus far you are right our movement rate was far superior to that of Tarran.  And our nobles all had the same line settings we pride ourselves on following orders and it is rare that we are not in sync with one another whether we agree with the orders given or not. We try to be like a family..... bicker among ourselves but show solidarity to the world. 

We also have a strong Leadership.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Chenier on April 07, 2012, 05:21:37 PM
I think that the reason Kabrinskia is doing so well so far is that we are united in Faith as well as our commitment to punish Tarran for their insults and actions.  We would not have gone to war so quickly if Terran had not declared war on Kabrinskia. Tarran's whining on the ruler channel did not help their situation either.

As for the battles thus far you are right our movement rate was far superior to that of Tarran.  And our nobles all had the same line settings we pride ourselves on following orders and it is rare that we are not in sync with one another whether we agree with the orders given or not. We try to be like a family..... bicker among ourselves but show solidarity to the world. 

We also have a strong Leadership.

You are clearly oblivious to the campaign of provocation led by Allison against D'Hara and Terran this last month.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Geronus on April 07, 2012, 05:31:17 PM
Maybe, maybe not. While the Church doesn't always approve of what Allison is doing, more often than not it is easier just to turn a blind eye...

Also, don't underestimate how irritating Hireshmont is. My character still hasn't forgiven him for his attitude toward the situation in Demyansk a few months ago. If he's been treating Kabrinskia the same way then the provocation runs both ways.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Indirik on April 07, 2012, 05:33:10 PM
Taking a stroll through the woods is not provocation. You guys just have thin skin. Seriously.

In all reality both sides knew this war was going to happen, and both sides wanted it to happen. The only questions was "who is going to declare it first?"
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Chenier on April 07, 2012, 05:34:29 PM
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Chaotrance13 on April 07, 2012, 05:41:14 PM
Taking a stroll through the woods is not provocation. You guys just have thin skin. Seriously.

In all reality both sides knew this war was going to happen, and both sides wanted it to happen. The only questions was "who is going to declare it first?"

I had an insane urge upon reading this to go "WAAAAAAGH!". *shrugs*
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on April 07, 2012, 07:31:12 PM
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Feylonis on April 07, 2012, 07:37:04 PM
Heh, it's hardly 'taking a stroll' when you preach along the way. And considering what SA did in Storms Keep (inciting the populace against Thulsoma), I'm not too keen on having them having a majority presence in my realm, too.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Chenier on April 07, 2012, 07:41:08 PM
This would be true as Katayanna only recently was made a full member of the church... so I cannot respond to this with any detail.

though to be honest about it Katayanna would have supported anything against Dhara as she wants her realm back.... lol or at least part of it. she wants to turn it to a SA theocracy and she makes no secret about it... nothing personal against the players that took it from her, but she will seek their characters destruction if given the chance.  She may never get the chance but that does not mean she does not dream of such an opportunity (in fact I like the players of most of them personally).

Funny considering how she was the one who got D'Hara on the bad side of SA and how she was the one who wanted to leave to found another realm.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Lorgan on April 07, 2012, 07:48:28 PM
Quote
A new war is breaking out   (19 minutes ago)
Asylon has declared war on Kabrinskia.

So the moot and Asylon decided to just hand SA the continent on a silver platter? All these war declarations surely aren't going to turn this 1 on 1 into yet another SA own-fest, are they now? Oh wait, they are.

The nr. 1 reason why SA is so powerful is because it's enemies are stupid.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Chenier on April 07, 2012, 07:49:39 PM
So the moot and Asylon decided to just hand SA the continent on a silver platter? All these war declarations surely aren't going to turn this 1 on 1 into yet another SA own-fest, are they now? Oh wait, they are.

The nr. 1 reason why SA is so powerful is because it's enemies are stupid.

SA is in all of Kabrinskia's enemies.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Arrakis on April 07, 2012, 07:51:39 PM
In case this truly become a religion thing, I am not sure how much can SA really do. Morek and Corsanctum are far away, and Astrums strength is diminished due to the lack of nobles. New realm like Aslyon and Barca have grown, too, so it could be an even  war in my opinion until such a time when Zuma joins either of the sides and spoils everything.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Lorgan on April 07, 2012, 07:53:30 PM
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Zakilevo on April 07, 2012, 08:10:04 PM
No worries. I don't know about other theocracies but Astrum isn't going to help Kabrinskia unless moot people start ganging up on Kabrinskia.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Arrakis on April 07, 2012, 08:15:04 PM
Aren't the moot people already ganged up on Kabrinskia?
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on April 07, 2012, 08:16:45 PM
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on April 07, 2012, 08:22:45 PM
No worries. I don't know about other theocracies but Astrum isn't going to help Kabrinskia unless moot people start ganging up on Kabrinskia.

I have to agree, Realms are already doing just that.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Penchant on April 07, 2012, 08:26:15 PM
Aren't the moot people already ganged up on Kabrinskia?
No, maybe your ruler does not share anything with the rest the realm's but Terran has said it will not take land and the two realms who joined said they will only defend Terran lands even if Terran decides to attack Kabrinskia. Also Asylon is not apart of the moot but a realm ruled by a SA member. Also Terran doesn't mind the preaching as it is not against SA at all, with a duke actually being a previous elder of SA (Labell). Terran's reasons for war are that Terran was angered by Kabrinkskia from something before I came to Dwilight so they decided to ban all nobles of Kabrinskia from entering. Kabrinskia says that it never intruded but I have heard several cases which Allison tries to say don't count.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Arrakis on April 07, 2012, 08:31:23 PM
Indeed, my ruler didn't share this, so I am nudging him to do it.

I didn't know that this war is only a defensive war, however, I am not sure how doable such wars are. I definitely expect this to escalate.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Bael on April 07, 2012, 09:06:36 PM
While I do not think it will be unique in all of BM history, I do believe the battles will be quite interesting. Let me leave that as a teaser, and just comment that I can't wait to see some of the battle reports. Particular ones.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on April 08, 2012, 12:50:01 AM
Asylon has joined the war to honour its alliance with Terran. There are foreign troops in Terran and we swore to uphold Terran sovereignty. Our kingdom is merely in Terran to defend the border, once Kabrinskia leaves the region and relations return to previous Asylon goes home, we are not an invading force nor do we wish to take Kabrinskian territory. If on the other hand our own territory is attacked we will retaliate. Asylon's place is difficult because of long relations with Terran and then having kinship with Kabrinskia. The fact is we have nothing against Kabrinskia, they are merely on our allies land and that make it difficult for us not to do something about it when we swore to uphold our alliance. If Kabrinskia is pushed back and the border restored is all we want.

 The #1 thing is that Asylon does not make alliances of convenience and we do not make entangled alliances, we have 2 alliances and we stick by them. If Astrum and Kabrinskia had asked for alliances before we would have considered it at the time. They did not, so we are where we are now.

We desire a return to previous standings and a cessation of the conflict in the west lands.

Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on April 08, 2012, 12:54:35 AM
Is that your only defense against the might of the theocracies?

Don't get me wrong, I wish you all the best of luck, but you're gonna get owned.

How? It would be a war where SA was actively in combat with SA nobles... How does that work out? How can that possibly unite all of the SA theocracies together against a common foe? My lands hold multiple SA temples, we have many SA followers, peasants and nobles, as does Terran and D'Hara. If anything a conflict of that sort would tear SA apart and would set back SA years in its drive to bring more people to the flock. I was a consul in the church built the first temple in Asylon in Vakreno heaps even during the threats and reign of Caerwyn. Terran has had temples and faithful in their lands for decades, as has D'hara. If anything... You just got owned.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Sacha on April 08, 2012, 01:50:24 AM
That, or you simply paved the way for further SA expansion  ;D
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on April 08, 2012, 03:30:30 AM
Expand where? They do not have enough nobles.  What has happened is quagmire, the SA fundamentalists are unable to do away with the moderates. And you'd be surprised how few the actual fundamentalists are.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Indirik on April 08, 2012, 03:42:46 AM
Glaumring is right that there is a shortage of nobles to really force expansion in the manner that was done with Caerwyn. But then again, so far I don't think anyone wants to totally wipe out another realm which that would require.

The inability to wipe out and recolonize the land is going to make this a bit of a different war. The final objective will be to win concessions from the other side, and not land. (Or at least no more than a token region or so.)
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Feylonis on April 08, 2012, 08:18:04 AM
Mech Alb and Elets, pls.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: JPierreD on April 08, 2012, 04:31:39 PM
The inability to wipe out and recolonize the land is going to make this a bit of a different war. The final objective will be to win concessions from the other side, and not land. (Or at least no more than a token region or so.)

Maybe SA is not interested, but would the 'moot not like to make their own colony in Golden Farrow?
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Indirik on April 08, 2012, 05:38:23 PM
Terran has already stated they don't want any land out of the war. Unles Kabrinskia really bungles something, they'd have a hard time changing their goal that much. It is something that would surely bring in Kabrinskia's allies.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: JPierreD on April 08, 2012, 05:46:01 PM
Terran has already stated they don't want any land out of the war. Unles Kabrinskia really bungles something, they'd have a hard time changing their goal that much. It is something that would surely bring in Kabrinskia's allies.

Like Kabrinskia burning their regions to the ground making them go rogue, perhaps Asylon's as well? If they don't go offensive over that they are really wimps.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Arrakis on April 08, 2012, 05:48:29 PM
I am pretty sure this will escalate if Kabrinskia attacks Asylon's regions. That would cook things up as Asylon would then retaliate. Since Allison should want their allies to interfere, and knowing her character, I think it's likely this will happen.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Indirik on April 08, 2012, 06:17:47 PM
Like Kabrinskia burning their regions to the ground making them go rogue, perhaps Asylon's as well?
Have they done this yet? If they have, I haven't heard about it.

I am pretty sure this will escalate if Kabrinskia attacks Asylon's regions. That would cook things up as Asylon would then retaliate. Since Allison should want their allies to interfere, and knowing her character, I think it's likely this will happen.
There is a point where Allison's allies can no longer ignore/rationalize her attempts to provoke an escalation of the war. We're not idiots.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Vigilans on April 08, 2012, 07:16:31 PM
    Letter from Hireshmont II Vellos
    Message sent to the Rulers of Dwilight (18 recipients)
    Fellow rulers,

    A priest of Kabrinskia has been sitting in Terran's land for over a day now. He has been asked politely to leave on several occasions. He has been told by his superior in the church that his presence is not required, and yet he lingers.

    This is a provocation which Terran cannot ignore.

    As I stated earlier, we shall declare war. We shall not pursue an invasion of Kabrinskia unless Kabrinskia sends a military invasion against us first. We have tried peaceful means, and Kabrinskia has rejected them. Now, we are compelled to take more drastic measures.

    Long Days and Pleasant Nights,

    Hireshmont II Vellos
    Chief Magistrate of Terran


As you can see, Terran will not simply be defending for this war. They stepped onto our soil so now their land is fair game IMO.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: JPierreD on April 08, 2012, 07:35:22 PM
Have they done this yet? If they have, I haven't heard about it.

I believe those are their intentions...
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on April 08, 2012, 08:10:37 PM
If the war escalates the only one to suffer the most will be Kabrinskia. All the other nations are close enough to attack deep into Kabrinskian lands. If Astrum joins they will help even the odds a bit but ultimately time and distance will devour any statistical advantage.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Zakilevo on April 08, 2012, 09:32:43 PM
If the war escalates the only one to suffer the most will be Kabrinskia. All the other nations are close enough to attack deep into Kabrinskian lands. If Astrum joins they will help even the odds a bit but ultimately time and distance will devour any statistical advantage.

Not really. Golden Farrow is pretty close to Eidulb. It is closer than you think. I think other theocracies might join out of boredom.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on April 08, 2012, 09:48:43 PM
More the merrier in my opinion. I have been on Dwilight since its beginning and the only PVP I have had was versus Itaulond. Its time to shake up Dwilight because sitting around treating a kingdom like a chia pet is only so much fun.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Penchant on April 08, 2012, 10:23:29 PM
I just thought of something that would be rather funny in my opinion. If Kabrinskia attacks Asylon and Asylon attacks back. Then the other SA realm join the war but the funny part would be if they attacked Kabrinskia.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflicte
Post by: Indirik on April 08, 2012, 11:38:01 PM
 And the likelihood of Astrum attacking Kabrinskia would be... zero?
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Penchant on April 08, 2012, 11:43:30 PM
I said funny not likely.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Vellos on April 08, 2012, 11:54:08 PM
Terran and Kabrinskia have both stated we will not TO each others' land.

Kabrinskia has mass-pillaged Terran's northlands. Their looting did not directly target economic infrastructure.

Kabrinskia's invasion triggered declarations from Barca and Asylon.

Asylon declared that they will fight within Terran's boundaries.

Barca declared that they will stick with Terran with whatever we do.

Terran is not going to do TOs.

That's the current state of things.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Indirik on April 09, 2012, 03:00:28 AM
There must be something about Golden Farrow that makes realms there like indiscriminate looting...
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on April 09, 2012, 03:15:12 AM
Oh come on Astrum we all know you are just itching to get into the conflict. Its fun playing on a limited battlefield, we could get a WWI trench war going in Terran with multiple kingdoms marching back and forth and fighting in that area, its like the Korean conflict, with all the big and small powers fighting over a small area without actually saying they are in the conflict. Think of it Asylon gets to be America and Astrum can be the Soviet union, Kabrinskia is North Korea and Terran is South Korea, Barca can be Canada and maybe you guys can find one more like Iashular to play an emerging China?  ;D
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Penchant on April 09, 2012, 03:21:37 AM
Well that is an interesting idea.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Vellos on April 09, 2012, 03:27:19 AM
Alternatively, Astrum could stay out of it, since Kabrinskia just pillaged Terran's north without Terran ever taking an aggressive act or even making a threat against them. Terran's not going to conquer Kabrinskia (unless they try to TO us first); Astrum needn't worry about the survival of Kabrinskia. Just its dignity.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Indirik on April 09, 2012, 03:46:02 AM
We still haven't decided what to do. We're debating our options. This is deinitely interesting. Getting involved would mean something to do. Staying out would mean that we let Allison clean up her own mess.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Galvez on April 09, 2012, 03:55:56 AM
This could also be your chance to get rid of Allison. I assume Terran would settle for a change of leadership within Kabrinskia.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Penchant on April 09, 2012, 04:25:27 AM
This could also be your chance to get rid of Allison. I assume Terran would settle for a change of leadership within Kabrinskia.
Thats an interesting idea.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Vellos on April 09, 2012, 04:41:16 AM
This could also be your chance to get rid of Allison. I assume Terran would settle for a change of leadership within Kabrinskia.

Not gonna lie, that was my main thought.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Geronus on April 09, 2012, 05:13:01 AM
Heh, we'll see how it turns out. I doubt things will spin out of control, but you never know.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Penchant on April 09, 2012, 05:19:35 AM
Well if Kabrinskia decides to TO regions and Terran TO's back and starts winning by a lot they could do the whole, "Get rid of Allison as ruler or we destroy the realm" thing for it to happen.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Geronus on April 09, 2012, 05:32:08 AM
Well if Kabrinskia decides to TO regions and Terran TO's back and starts winning by a lot they could do the whole, "Get rid of Allison as ruler or we destroy the realm" thing for it to happen.

For that to start, someone has to pull the trigger. I don't know that that will happen. Sure, Allison is a loose cannon, but she's also very adept at gauging just how far she can go before truly Bad Things happen to her. If she ever messed up it was only once, when she seceded Aegir, but even then she managed to claw herself out of the abyss by setting off the war between Astrum and Caerwyn.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Vellos on April 09, 2012, 05:39:32 AM
For that to start, someone has to pull the trigger. I don't know that that will happen. Sure, Allison is a loose cannon, but she's also very adept at gauging just how far she can go before truly Bad Things happen to her. If she ever messed up it was only once, when she seceded Aegir, but even then she managed to claw herself out of the abyss by setting off the war between Astrum and Caerwyn.

Yup.

I see one of three results:
1. One of us slips up/decides to escalate and it becomes a full-on fight between Kabrinskia and allies and Terran and allies.
2. We fight back and forth, looting, then get some kind of brokered settlement
3. We fight back and forth, no settlement is reached, we drive the frontier area rogue, and it remains that way as we periodically march across the wastes to loot each other

Not gonna lie: I'm hoping for #3. The idea of a constantly contested, depopulated border wasteland where both sides are committed to hurting the either, but neither side is powerfully interested in actual conquest, sounds entertaining to me. I can just imagine the RP where young nobles of Terran cut their teeth by staging daring raids into Kabrinskia (and vice versa).
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: dustole on April 09, 2012, 05:42:17 AM
Ugh!  Kabrinskia started out well, but we suicided into Shokas walls in waves.  :-(
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Ironsides on April 09, 2012, 05:45:38 AM
i so want to chronicle this war for the history department but i have a hard time keeping in touch with you occidentalists. hmm, ill think of something.

and i apologize to those of the aurvandil-madina war. i wanted to do a project for you guys too but again, no sources = no history.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Vellos on April 09, 2012, 05:54:53 AM
Ugh!  Kabrinskia started out well, but we suicided into Shokas walls in waves.  :-(

Yeah, not gonna lie... if you had broken Shoka... there would have been serious issues.

Though even if you'd broken through Shoka, you wouldn't have gotten farther (and we just called a tax), especially since Asylon arrived.

The defense of Shoka... saved Terran's skin.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Perth on April 09, 2012, 06:39:03 AM
i so want to chronicle this war for the history department but i have a hard time keeping in touch with you occidentalists. hmm, ill think of something.

You do have one fairly new DU Student who recently wrote a lengthy paper about Republics in the Maroccidens and just so happens to be Marshal and Sponsor Terran's one, large army that is fighting the war, and is also the Senator of Shoka. Does that count as a contact?  ;)


The defense of Shoka... saved Terran's skin.

[email protected]#$ yeah Shoka.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Gustav Kuriga on April 09, 2012, 06:39:48 AM
Alternatively, Astrum could stay out of it, since Kabrinskia just pillaged Terran's north without Terran ever taking an aggressive act or even making a threat against them. Terran's not going to conquer Kabrinskia (unless they try to TO us first); Astrum needn't worry about the survival of Kabrinskia. Just its dignity.

Well... except for declaring war. That's not aggressive at all... ^_^
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Feylonis on April 09, 2012, 07:35:15 AM
There's the concept of casus belli which states that even if X was the first who officially declared war, if Y gave a reason to spark aggression, then X is not considered the aggressor.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: OFaolain on April 09, 2012, 08:31:29 AM
Oh come on Astrum we all know you are just itching to get into the conflict. Its fun playing on a limited battlefield, we could get a WWI trench war going in Terran with multiple kingdoms marching back and forth and fighting in that area, its like the Korean conflict, with all the big and small powers fighting over a small area without actually saying they are in the conflict. Think of it Asylon gets to be America and Astrum can be the Soviet union, Kabrinskia is North Korea and Terran is South Korea, Barca can be Canada and maybe you guys can find one more like Iashular to play an emerging China?  ;D

If only Iashalur had enough players for more than 1 per region, I would totally be up for that. :(
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Vellos on April 09, 2012, 04:18:31 PM
Well... except for declaring war. That's not aggressive at all... ^_^

There's the concept of casus belli which states that even if X was the first who officially declared war, if Y gave a reason to spark aggression, then X is not considered the aggressor.

Exactly. Casus Belli. Repeated and unapologetic treaty violations, public vulgar insults, attempt to start a war anyways (the infamous blood bribe), and attempts to sabotage alliances.

And, "declaring war" is not a universally identical concept. The war we declared precluded the possibility of ever invading Kabrinskia, unless Kabrinskia invaded us first.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: dustole on April 09, 2012, 05:48:20 PM
Even if I some how lose or at least lose bad enough to some how lose a region or have to abdicate the throne of Kabrinskia it was worth it.  Dwilight was boring and needed a good war!  I must say this is one of the most bizarre wars I have ever been involved in.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Vellos on April 09, 2012, 07:05:38 PM
Even if I some how lose or at least lose bad enough to some how lose a region or have to abdicate the throne of Kabrinskia it was worth it.  Dwilight was boring and needed a good war!  I must say this is one of the most bizarre wars I have ever been involved in.

Heh, yeah. It's interesting.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Marlboro on April 09, 2012, 07:26:03 PM
Now in war we are confronted with conditions which are strange.
If we accept them we will never win.
Since by being realistic, as in mundane combats fistic,
We will get a bloody nose and that's a sin.

To avoid such fell disaster, the result of fighting faster,
We resort to fighting carefully and slow.
We fill up terrestrial spaces with secure expensive bases
To keep our tax rate high and death rate low.

 But with sadness and with sorrow we discover to our horror
That while we build, the enemy gets set.
So despite our fine intentions to produce extensive pensions
We haven't licked the dirty bastard yet.

For in war just as in loving, you must always keep on shoving
Or you'll never get your just reward.
For if you are dilatory in the search for lust and glory
You are up [email protected]#$ creek and that's the truth, Oh! Lord.

So let us do real fighting, boring in and gouging, biting.
Let's take a chance now that we have the ball.
Let's forget those fine firm bases in the dreary shell raked spaces.
Let's shoot the works and win! Yes, win it all!

-George S Patton, Absolute War
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on April 09, 2012, 07:31:10 PM
Wars always start orderly like this... It will not last.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Chenier on April 09, 2012, 09:56:52 PM
I am pretty sure this will escalate if Kabrinskia attacks Asylon's regions. That would cook things up as Asylon would then retaliate. Since Allison should want their allies to interfere, and knowing her character, I think it's likely this will happen.

I tend to be of the same opinion.

This could also be your chance to get rid of Allison. I assume Terran would settle for a change of leadership within Kabrinskia.

Indeed. Shaming Allison is probably the best objective to have for Terran and its allies.

Yup.

I see one of three results:
1. One of us slips up/decides to escalate and it becomes a full-on fight between Kabrinskia and allies and Terran and allies.
2. We fight back and forth, looting, then get some kind of brokered settlement
3. We fight back and forth, no settlement is reached, we drive the frontier area rogue, and it remains that way as we periodically march across the wastes to loot each other

Not gonna lie: I'm hoping for #3. The idea of a constantly contested, depopulated border wasteland where both sides are committed to hurting the either, but neither side is powerfully interested in actual conquest, sounds entertaining to me. I can just imagine the RP where young nobles of Terran cut their teeth by staging daring raids into Kabrinskia (and vice versa).

Don't count on D'Hara to help this happen. Having Golden Farrow closed to our traders for an extended period of time would make me quite grumpy. We don't need Golden Farrow to get to anywhere, but the thought of that sea route being closed off goes against everything we stand for.

All your sea lanes are belong to us.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: JPierreD on April 09, 2012, 10:39:31 PM
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Chenier on April 10, 2012, 12:42:33 AM
What an useful ally...

What an useful ally... Terran would be for blocking a major trade route to their trader realm ally.

An eternal war is not in the 'moot's best interests, regardless of what some warmongers in it may wish. It isn't because Terran only has one non-moot border that it becomes the only one we should all concern ourselves with, either.

D'Hara would never vouch for any prolonged war.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: dustole on April 10, 2012, 01:28:42 AM
The funny part of this is that Terran freaked out over a Trader in their lands.  D'haran traders regularly go through Golden Farrow without ever announcing themselves.  I brought this up to Hireshmont in front of the other Rulers and he didn't have a good answer.  That right there helped me look better to a few of the other rulers.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Chenier on April 10, 2012, 02:06:54 AM
The funny part of this is that Terran freaked out over a Trader in their lands.  D'haran traders regularly go through Golden Farrow without ever announcing themselves.  I brought this up to Hireshmont in front of the other Rulers and he didn't have a good answer.  That right there helped me look better to a few of the other rulers.

Except that D'Hara doesn't go provoking Kabrinskia every time they can. And when they do so, it's to deal with your friends to give them opportunities to make money with food that would otherwise rot.

The same can't be said for yourself.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Indirik on April 10, 2012, 02:10:50 AM
The truth of the matter is that the treaty with Kabrinskia was specifically designed to be trivially easy to break. Both sides wanted war. All this arguing back and forth is just silly posturing. You got your war. Enjoy it. :D
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: GoldPanda on April 10, 2012, 02:14:33 AM
The funny part of this is that Terran freaked out over a Trader in their lands.  D'haran traders regularly go through Golden Farrow without ever announcing themselves.  I brought this up to Hireshmont in front of the other Rulers and he didn't have a good answer.  That right there helped me look better to a few of the other rulers.

It's like this: Terran asked Kabrinskia traders to leave and stay out. But those pesky traders kept showing up. D'Haran traders were never told by anyone to leave or stay out of Kabrinskia.

Do you understand now? Or should I break out the crayons?  ;)
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: dustole on April 10, 2012, 02:24:57 AM
Actually as soon as the trader was asked to leave he did and none of the other traders ever set foot in Terran lands. 
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Vellos on April 10, 2012, 02:59:05 AM
Actually as soon as the trader was asked to leave he did and none of the other traders ever set foot in Terran lands.

Do you seriously OOCly believe that?

Because, I'm telling you in pure OOC truth, that isn't true. After being asked to leave, both of the two traders (not one) continued going further into Terran's lands.

I assumed it was IC posturing. But the fact that you're making OOC assertions to the contrary on the forum is befuddling. I would show you the scout reports of traders in Vashgew when we first contacted them in Lavendrow, except they've expired by now.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Chenier on April 10, 2012, 04:07:15 AM
It's like this: Terran asked Kabrinskia traders to leave and stay out. But those pesky traders kept showing up. D'Haran traders were never told by anyone to leave or stay out of Kabrinskia.

Do you understand now? Or should I break out the crayons?  ;)

Indeed. Had they been asked to, they'd have avoided Kabrinskia. There's really no need for them to pass through there, though a few of Allison's neighbors might be displeased by the lack of business opportunities. I'm pretty sure the realms we trade with enjoy the deals much more than we do. And it's not like suppliers are hard to come by, these days, we are really just trading for the sake of it mostly right now.

To this day, Allison has still not done a request for D'Haran traders to pull out, though, just a vague reference to them.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: dustole on April 10, 2012, 05:24:01 AM
Terran freely admits that one trader had permission to enter their realm.  So only one trader there was againt the treaty.  I ordered him out and  he left.  It seems rather weak reasoning to make such a fuss.  To me it seemed that Terran wanted war so I sent an Elder priest of SA through their lands to the Zuma see if they were really gonna declare war.  I wasnt gonna be bullied.  I really didnt think you were gonna declare war.  I told my realm we were calling your bluff.  So now we get a fun war and in the end I hope I can annex some territory after this war gains a few more participants and devolves into a free for all!
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Vellos on April 10, 2012, 05:41:03 AM
Terran freely admits that one trader had permission to enter their realm.  So only one trader there was againt the treaty.  I ordered him out and  he left.  It seems rather weak reasoning to make such a fuss.  To me it seemed that Terran wanted war so I sent an Elder priest of SA through their lands to the Zuma see if they were really gonna declare war.  I wasnt gonna be bullied.  I really didnt think you were gonna declare war.  I told my realm we were calling your bluff.  So now we get a fun war and in the end I hope I can annex some territory after this war gains a few more participants and devolves into a free for all!

We let no trader into our realm. We let a trader into Faithill. Again, all clearly available fact. That trader then traveled as far as Vashgew despite repeated warnings. A second trader also showed up and went as far as Vashgew. Again, this is all simple fact. ICly characters can think whatever; Allison is welcome to believe that Terran made up a just-so story. But OOCly, it really did happen. And to cover it up, your traders really did insult Terran's banker to our judge's face, then insult the judge to the region lord's face.

All the while, of course, we were trying to get murderous settings to work. Wasn't until too late we learned that, as long as your traders kept moving, we couldn't touch'em.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: dustole on April 10, 2012, 06:03:59 AM
Meh, I dont believe much of what Hireshmont says.  I didnt see any evidence of them being asked to leave or that anyone was insulted.   I listened to what my nobles told me and then maneuvered myself into a war I believe I can take advantage of.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Vellos on April 10, 2012, 06:08:06 AM
lol, oh of course Hireshmont was lying about Terran being all innocent. We absolutely tried to make our bureaucracy heinous to work through, and kept telling your traders to contact a different person. And of course we were trying to get murderous settings to work to spark a war anyways. But the simple event-timeline was entirely honest; Hireshmont wouldn't lie about something so easily verifiable.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Andrew on April 10, 2012, 06:13:16 AM
Oh, that's just hilarious. I will remember this war as, "What happens when BM players get bored."
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on April 10, 2012, 08:05:33 AM
Oh, that's just hilarious. I will remember this war as, "What happens when BM players get bored."

That is just funny to think about it like that..... lol :)
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: fodder on April 10, 2012, 08:22:26 AM
.. totally don't get that trader nonsense to be dead honest.

a trader can only trade if someone in the realm makes an open offer... he doesn't have to step inside a realm to trade with that realm. only reason he might pop inside is to trade with someone beyond that realm..

-
perhaps there should be a trade partner status without going into alliance? (trade has.. open, allies only, realm only atm... war would also stop trading)
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on April 10, 2012, 09:16:21 AM
.. totally don't get that trader nonsense to be dead honest.

a trader can only trade if someone in the realm makes an open offer... he doesn't have to step inside a realm to trade with that realm. only reason he might pop inside is to trade with someone beyond that realm..

-
perhaps there should be a trade partner status without going into alliance? (trade has.. open, allies only, realm only atm... war would also stop trading)

That sounds like a good idea, maybe you should put it in the appropriate thread.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: vonGenf on April 10, 2012, 09:46:38 AM
-
perhaps there should be a trade partner status without going into alliance? (trade has.. open, allies only, realm only atm... war would also stop trading)

There is one in the new treaty system. It's just not implemented yet.

Quote
The Trade Agreement grants common traders of the signing parties to trade at each others market places.
As long as this treaty is in effect, the parties can send caravan missions to each others regions.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: fodder on April 10, 2012, 10:29:04 AM
yeah... but it still doesn't explain that stuff about traders popping into a realm and what not. it's not the 1st time i've seen it in dwi.

i think it's solaria or some such had some silly rule about having to talk to banker before trade... but if are not inside the border, how are you supposed to know that? if all you see is open deal, how are you supposed to know you are not meant to buy it?

only thing that i can think of in terms of damage a trader is... scouting. or if he's got a unit.. a bit of looting. P/T is still not allowed... so can't be priest.

---
i thought the treaty stuff is dead in the water.. and would require a revamp anyway...
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Vellos on April 10, 2012, 03:27:19 PM
He violated a treaty.

Nothing further is required. No harm needs to be demonstrated.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Indirik on April 10, 2012, 03:43:34 PM
See, GoldPanda? It's all D'Hara's fault. That D'Haran trader violated a treaty. "Nothing further is required."

I knew that if we tried hard enough, we could pin it all on D'Hara. Now can we all just forget about this silly border squabble and get on with the real business at hand: Invading D'Hara!
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on April 10, 2012, 03:46:18 PM
See, GoldPanda? It's all D'Hara's fault. That D'Haran trader violated a treaty. "Nothing further is required."

I knew that if we tried hard enough, we could pin it all on D'Hara. Now can we all just forget about this silly border squabble and get on with the real business at hand: Invading D'Hara!

That works for me. We can tie up Tarran, barca, and Asylon forces while Astrum and Morek and the Lurians invade Dhara!
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Indirik on April 10, 2012, 03:46:24 PM
yeah... but it still doesn't explain that stuff about traders popping into a realm and what not. it's not the 1st time i've seen it in dwi.
I would bet that most/all of those treaties were written before the new trading system was implemented. Back then, you had to physically travel to the region to trade with it. Treaties like this will pretty much be ridiculous under the new system.

Quote
i think it's solaria or some such had some silly rule about having to talk to banker before trade... but if are not inside the border, how are you supposed to know that? if all you see is open deal, how are you supposed to know you are not meant to buy it?
If an order is available for you to trade on, then trade on it. If they didn't want you to fill it, they shouldn't have posted it, or posted it in a more restricted manner.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on April 10, 2012, 03:51:33 PM
That works for me. We can tie up Tarran, barca, and Asylon forces while Astrum and Morek and the Lurians invade Dhara!

Oh I forgot the Solarians too....

Divide Dhara up like a failed business an sell it to the highest bidder....

I want Port Raviel back so I will bid high on that city.... lol
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on April 10, 2012, 04:31:06 PM
I was born in Port Raviel, making my claim there the strongest!
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Lorgan on April 10, 2012, 04:34:00 PM
Oh I forgot the Solarians too....

Divide Dhara up like a failed business an sell it to the highest bidder....

I want Port Raviel back so I will bid high on that city.... lol

The Solarians are Lurians... ;)
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on April 10, 2012, 04:45:57 PM
The Solarians are Lurians... ;)

My Bad sorry no insult intended
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Telrunya on April 10, 2012, 05:32:09 PM
We let no trader into our realm. We let a trader into Faithill. Again, all clearly available fact. That trader then traveled as far as Vashgew despite repeated warnings. A second trader also showed up and went as far as Vashgew. Again, this is all simple fact. ICly characters can think whatever; Allison is welcome to believe that Terran made up a just-so story. But OOCly, it really did happen. And to cover it up, your traders really did insult Terran's banker to our judge's face, then insult the judge to the region lord's face.

All the while, of course, we were trying to get murderous settings to work. Wasn't until too late we learned that, as long as your traders kept moving, we couldn't touch'em.

Just for clarification sake for those OOC interested in what happened, here is my side of the story. (I absolutely love how this War was started and I'm guessing I was one of the pieces involved in it):
I assume the second trader was my character, as I believe there were only two Traders in Terran at any time. He just saw Peace with Terran and, unaware of any diplomatic relations beyond the official ones, travelled through their lands, assuming it was fine since both Realms are at Peace (Rather naive, but ok). He actually came from Via of Asylon, travelled to Shokalom, and then planned to head for the next City of Chateau Saffalore. My character was already in Terran's lands for a few days. He was actually contacted by the Magistrate of Justice in Mistight, not Lavendrow (He never arrived through that region since he came from Asylon). This was about 5 hours before the reset, and since Adam was already travelling, he arrived in Vashgew before he read the letter.

He answered the Magistrate after reset, explaining himself as a new Noble, unaware of relations, requesting to travel through Terran's lands and trying to indicate he meant no harm. When he read the Grandmistress' Orders to return, he also send another letter that he was going to head back immediately, which he did (Going via Lavendrow this time to head back the fastest way). In Adam's talks with the Magistrate, he was thanked for the respectful explanations and his aid against the rogue forces earlier, his request for an exception to be made for him being rejected and being explained that he really should contact the Banker next time. I don't think my character was insulting to the Magistrate (unless the Magistrate was being sarcastic in his answers), though I cannot speak for the other Trader obviously.

I've been very pleasantly surprised at the events that happened and let us all please continue on with all our claims IC of what really happened :) My character did violate any treaty there may have been between Terran and Kabrinskia (as he was unaware of it), but he had gotten the impression he was forgiven as a young clueless Noble making a mistake (Which he was, and was also the way he tried to talk his way out of it). He was therefore also very unpleasantly surprised to hear the reasons for the War declaration afterwards. I just enjoy seeing how this all developed and figured I'd share my side of the story as well if any are interested in it. Of course, I cannot speak for the actions of the other Trader or the Priest etc., this is just Adam's part.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Lefanis on April 10, 2012, 06:18:33 PM
The Solarians are Lurians... ;)

They are Larians!
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Chenier on April 11, 2012, 12:26:29 AM
See, GoldPanda? It's all D'Hara's fault. That D'Haran trader violated a treaty. "Nothing further is required."

I knew that if we tried hard enough, we could pin it all on D'Hara. Now can we all just forget about this silly border squabble and get on with the real business at hand: Invading D'Hara!

D'Hara has no treaty with Kabrinskia, and was never told to stay away from it.

The same can't be said about Terran and Kabrinskia. They had treaties, and warnings were given.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Indirik on April 11, 2012, 03:46:17 AM
Aren't you moot people just one big political group that signs group treaties? Honestly, I have no idea what the treaties Kabrinskia signed were. All I know is that we all wanted this war.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Vellos on April 11, 2012, 03:54:06 AM
Aren't you moot people just one big political group that signs group treaties? Honestly, I have no idea what the treaties Kabrinskia signed were. All I know is that we all wanted this war.

While the Moot can collectively negotiate, it does not always, and the treaty with Kabrinskia certainly was not.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Chenier on April 11, 2012, 04:14:44 AM
While the Moot can collectively negotiate, it does not always, and the treaty with Kabrinskia certainly was not.

Indeed. United but independant.

Much like provinces can make agreements that bind them with others without binding the rest of the country.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on April 11, 2012, 04:17:12 AM
Yeah and Asylon is an observer that does all the heavy lifting. 8)
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Andrew on April 11, 2012, 05:00:24 AM
We <3 Asylon!
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on April 11, 2012, 07:22:00 AM
We <3 Asylon!

Finally some love for Asylon!
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Velax on April 11, 2012, 11:13:26 AM
We <3 Asylon!

I thought that meant he was tea bagging you. :P
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on April 11, 2012, 04:37:00 PM
I thought that meant he was tea bagging you. :P

Waaaaaaahhh!
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Solari on April 11, 2012, 08:57:48 PM
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on April 11, 2012, 09:12:26 PM
Well Asylon has a defensive alliance with Terran. Terran declared war, but Kabrinskia entered Terran territory thereby activating the treaty. If Terran had of declared war and then invaded Kabrinskia they would be fighting alone right now.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on April 11, 2012, 09:35:40 PM
Well Asylon has a defensive alliance with Terran. Terran declared war, but Kabrinskia entered Terran territory thereby activating the treaty. If Terran had of declared war and then invaded Kabrinskia they would be fighting alone right now.

I see Asylon as doing the honorable thing by keeping their word to Tarran, I am sorry we are going to have to fight you guys. We will of course send you home in pieces....

Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Vellos on April 11, 2012, 10:12:23 PM
So the other member entities aren't party to any agreements signed by any one member, but they're definitely going to jump into any war begun by said member.  That's quite the racket you're running. ;-)

No, not quite. There are restrictions on foreign diplomacy.

But, broadly speaking, it's a reasonable arrangement. We pledge to defend each others' borders. None of us are obligated to attack anybody on behalf of the others. And you'll notice D'Hara hasn't declared war: the terms of the Moot are really quite flexible as they regard foreign diplomacy. So, yes, as long as Terran didn't hit first, as long as we could plausibly be defending, D'Hara and Barca (and Asylon through a separate treaty) are obliged to support us. None of those realms are obliged to support us in an invasion of Kabrinskia. And, so far, Asylon has pledged strictly defensive support, and I expect them to keep that commitment, D'Hara isn't entering the war at all, and Barca, even if they do help offensively (they have made no public commitments one way or another), is quite far away, so of only limited help.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: dustole on April 12, 2012, 04:42:21 AM
Is Kabrinskia going to be able to maneuver out of Terran?  I tried challenging Asylon to honorable combat not sure if they are gonna accept. 
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Vellos on April 12, 2012, 04:45:34 AM
Is Kabrinskia going to be able to maneuver out of Terran?  I tried challenging Asylon to honorable combat not sure if they are gonna accept.

YEah, we expected you to keep marching home. We got all confused when you didn't. Now Terran's north is very awkward.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Geronus on April 12, 2012, 05:44:45 AM
Now Terran's north is very awkward.

Aw, that's cute. It must be growing up.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: dustole on April 12, 2012, 05:57:15 AM
Geronus, when is Astrum gonna shake off the cob webs and get involved?  Better keep in practice if you want to remain the big kid on the block.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on April 12, 2012, 06:15:41 AM
Ya, come join the fun.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on April 12, 2012, 06:56:14 AM
Is Kabrinskia going to be able to maneuver out of Terran?  I tried challenging Asylon to honorable combat not sure if they are gonna accept.

We are enjoying the group maneuvering and picking off Kabrinskian stragglers. Har har ;D
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on April 12, 2012, 07:11:35 AM
Only those that did not follow orders to the letter......
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on April 12, 2012, 07:12:37 AM
Thanks for teaching them the importance of following orders.... lol
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: fodder on April 12, 2012, 08:01:29 AM
... you can just see it can't you... loads of armies sitting around dug in...
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Vellos on April 12, 2012, 03:13:53 PM
Geronus, when is Astrum gonna shake off the cob webs and get involved?  Better keep in practice if you want to remain the big kid on the block.

Heh, no they don't actually. Summerdale and Libero are fighting each other. Iashalur won't be big for a while. The only threat to Astrumite hegemony is Kabrinskia. If Astrum's goal is to be the dominant player in the Occidental north, their optimal strategy is to undermine any other realm that seeks hegemony. That means Kabrinskia, because Terran's foreign policy is quite credibly aimed elsewhere. Nobody can make the case that Terran has a foreign policy geared towards northern hegemony.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Indirik on April 12, 2012, 03:53:17 PM
Why would Astrum join in? You seem to be doing just fine on your own. I mean, you did tell me you didn't want help. Something like "As long as it's Terran and Barca I'm happy". Well, it will only be Terran and Barca invading you, so, have fun!
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on April 12, 2012, 03:54:32 PM
Why would Astrum join in? You seem to be doing just fine on your own. I mean, you did tell me you didn't want help. Something like "As long as it's Terran and Barca I'm happy". Well, it will only be Terran and Barca invading you, so, have fun!

Your forgetting about Asylon now
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Indirik on April 12, 2012, 04:01:21 PM
Asylon isn't invading Kabrinskia. And as long as its only Terran/Barca invading Kabrinskia, I'm content to watch. Of course, if you provoke Asylon to invade you, then enjoy your crushing defeat.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Geronus on April 12, 2012, 04:20:17 PM
Well, I could always go behind Brance' back and try to raise an army of my own. Kind of like you did to help Virovene back in the day. Heh.

That's probably not in the cards though. Lysander isn't thinking along those lines at present. I don't know if you noticed, but he's actually preaching in Kabrinskia as we speak. Just switched over to priest, and I need practice. Lysander is more hawkish than Rowan was, but the current conflict doesn't interest him. Too secular.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Vellos on April 12, 2012, 05:06:58 PM
Asylon isn't invading Kabrinskia. And as long as its only Terran/Barca invading Kabrinskia, I'm content to watch. Of course, if you provoke Asylon to invade you, then enjoy your crushing defeat.

Meh, right now, no crushing defeat looks imminent. Terran won't be able to pose an existential threat to Kabrinskia for a very long time, lol.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on April 12, 2012, 05:09:22 PM
Meh, right now, no crushing defeat looks imminent. Terran won't be able to pose an existential threat to Kabrinskia for a very long time, lol.

This is true enough. Barca forces have not yet arrived on the front lines.  When and if they do it will begin to be a tough fight.
depending on what they send.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Vellos on April 12, 2012, 06:23:08 PM
This is true enough. Barca forces have not yet arrived on the front lines.  When and if they do it will begin to be a tough fight.
depending on what they send.

lol, with refit times in the 2-3 week range, Barca is not going to radically tip the scales.

The big strategic questions in this war will be:
1. Asylon's response time to invasions of Terran
2. Relative strategic cleverness and activity of Kabrinskia and Terran
3. Whether or not Terran can starve out Kabrinskia faster than Kabrinskia can impoverish Terran

So far, Kabrinskia is winning on all three categories. We'll see in the long run though.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Indirik on April 12, 2012, 06:35:18 PM
Well, I could always go behind Brance' back and try to raise an army of my own. Kind of like you did to help Virovene back in the day. Heh.

I did? I don't remember that. Unless you mean the time or two the Warders of the Island Citadel went over to fight some monsters. I guess I didn't really consider that "Behind anyone's back", though.

However, we *are* allied with Kabrinskia. And Astrum has never really claimed tight control over all of our noble's actions. They are generally free to come and go wherever and whenever they please, so long as we're not at war. If a few nobles of Astrum decided to vacation in he south of Kabrinskia, who am I to tell them not to?  It's allied land, and Kabrinskia never asked us not to do so. ;)
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Geronus on April 12, 2012, 06:47:00 PM
I was talking to dustole, actually. Remember when Allison lead an army of 'volunteers' from Morek to support Virovene against Springdale (think waaaaaaaaay back)? I seem to remember that the official position of the government of Morek was peace with Springdale and that Allison was said to be acting on her own.

And don't go giving me ideas... I might actually do this.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on April 12, 2012, 07:21:49 PM
lol, with refit times in the 2-3 week range, Barca is not going to radically tip the scales.

The big strategic questions in this war will be:
1. Asylon's response time to invasions of Terran
2. Relative strategic cleverness and activity of Kabrinskia and Terran
3. Whether or not Terran can starve out Kabrinskia faster than Kabrinskia can impoverish Terran

So far, Kabrinskia is winning on all three categories. We'll see in the long run though.

Tarran will not starve out Kabrinskia we are self supporting at this time.....
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Lefanis on April 12, 2012, 07:26:14 PM
I was talking to dustole, actually. Remember when Allison lead an army of 'volunteers' from Morek to support Virovene against Springdale (think waaaaaaaaay back)? I seem to remember that the official position of the government of Morek was peace with Springdale and that Allison was said to be acting on her own.

Are you sure? I'm quite sure Cato and Allison hated each other. Wasn't Cato rped as being murdered by one of her assassins?
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: vonGenf on April 12, 2012, 07:53:30 PM
Are you sure? I'm quite sure Cato and Allison hated each other. Wasn't Cato rped as being murdered by one of her assassins?

You think Allison helps people because she likes them?  :o

I remember that, although I think it was actually the Warders of the Temple and not Allison personally. This was when Morek and Springdale were the real powerhouses and Astrum a small easily forgettable colony. Good times.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Darksun on April 12, 2012, 08:19:31 PM
You think Allison helps people because she likes them?  :o


QFT.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Vellos on April 12, 2012, 09:13:47 PM
Tarran will not starve out Kabrinskia we are self supporting at this time.....

And what are your two biggest food producers?

Mech Alb and Demyansk.

And what regions are easiest for Terran to attack?

Mech Alb and Demyansk.

And what is food supply dependent upon?

Production in rural regions.

And how quickly does production recover?

Fairly slowly, unless you devote soldiers to it (so take them away from looting someone else).

And how big is Golden Farrow's population?

64,000.

And how big will Golden Farrow get if you keep feeding it?

Much bigger.

---

As far as food is concerned, Terran has the leg up, though of course Kabrinskia can trade with Morek and whatnot.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: OFaolain on April 12, 2012, 09:17:22 PM
As far as food is concerned, Terran has the leg up, though of course Kabrinskia can trade with Morek and whatnot.

And Iashalur; we'll be up to our necks swimming in food until Darfix gets big again.  As soon as Eoghan gets reappointed Lord Jorradith (stupid prison taking my stupid titles) I'll be contacting a few rulers, since Qadan has never got back to me about brokering a deal.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Telrunya on April 12, 2012, 09:18:47 PM
Quote
though of course Kabrinskia can trade with Morek and whatnot.

I think that will really make a great difference in Kabrinskia's ability to feed itself. I doubt the Realm will have any significant problems feeding itself at any point in time due the fact it can trade easily with the other Theocratic Realms to cover any deficits.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Indirik on April 12, 2012, 09:26:47 PM
Food is the least of their problems. Assuming they are willing to ask.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: dustole on April 12, 2012, 09:56:01 PM
I dont need to ask for food.  I put up buy offers and Lords of Astrum fill them before my lords can.  I think this refit for both Terran and Kabrknskia will be a good indicator of how this war will go.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Indirik on April 12, 2012, 09:58:11 PM
Yeah, I put up Buy orders and Corsanctum sells me food. :)
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Galvez on April 13, 2012, 11:01:15 AM
Regional report in Barca:
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: JPierreD on April 13, 2012, 12:20:37 PM
Regional report in Barca:
  • The locals question the war against Kabrinskia.

They are clearly starting to think too much. Start burning the witches that cursed them with political opinions!
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Chenier on April 13, 2012, 02:03:34 PM
Regional report in Barca:
  • The locals question the war against Kabrinskia.

Man, I really hate that code. Barca finally gets its first war, and the game tells it "Oh, maybe you shouldn't do that". It goes against everything we've been pushing for for as long as I can remember.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: vonGenf on April 13, 2012, 02:06:28 PM
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Chenier on April 13, 2012, 02:17:58 PM
If it's random. With the ambassadors roaming around, it is not necessarily so.

(Disclaimer: I have never even set foot in Barca, not my fault!)

It's not random, but it defaults to it way too easily.

If it weren't for my actions, Fheuv'n's peasants would love all of our traditional enemies, especially Sint and Rio... Which is dumb.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: fodder on April 13, 2012, 03:21:41 PM
ask?

funny thing about food. tons around waiting to be sold and no one buying them

---
the war thing, i would think is based on the stat... what's it called.. equivalent to loyalty.. (or rather... loyalty is simply that stat for your own regions applied to your own realm)
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: vonGenf on April 13, 2012, 03:30:45 PM
the war thing, i would think is based on the stat... what's it called.. equivalent to loyalty.. (or rather... loyalty is simply that stat for your own regions applied to your own realm)

Sympathy.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Vellos on April 13, 2012, 04:36:40 PM
Sympathy.

Once they kill some Kabrinskians in battle it should decline again, right?
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Galvez on April 13, 2012, 04:52:37 PM
Perhaps if we badmouth Kabrinskia?
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: vonGenf on April 13, 2012, 05:00:11 PM
Perhaps if we badmouth Kabrinskia?

Yes.

Once they kill some Kabrinskians in battle it should decline again, right?

Good question actually. If Kabrinskians loot you, then yes for sure. If you win a battle in that region the flavor text ("The locals are grateful for defending their homes" or something like that) hints that sympathy towards you rise, but not necessarily that it is lowered towards the enemy. Is just fighting Kabrinskians generally sufficient? I'm not sure at all.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Indirik on April 13, 2012, 05:27:25 PM
I'm pretty sure that "grateful for defending" only works if you defeat monster/undead hordes in the region. The locals won't be happy if you defeat their own soldiers in the region.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Chenier on April 14, 2012, 04:40:38 AM
Looting in a region only lowers sympathy to your realm in that region, not the rest of the realm.

So if you own W, X, Y, and Z, and they loot W, X, and Y, Z is still gonna love them. Even if you declare hatred and "whip your peasants in a hatred frenzy against them".

Sure, you can go do diplo work to reduce sympathy, but it's a painful process, especially if you have a large realm or many regions.

I would get this feature if it was the result of diplo work to increase sympathy significantly, but as it is, it just seems to appear from default values. Even if the effects are tiny, the text that is presented sends a really bad message.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: GoldPanda on April 14, 2012, 11:56:52 AM
I could be wrong, but I think there is some "bleed" when you loot regions. Sympathy for your realm in adjacent regions (that belongs to the same realm that you're looting) decreases as well, although not nearly as quickly.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Chenier on April 14, 2012, 02:25:18 PM
I could be wrong, but I think there is some "bleed" when you loot regions. Sympathy for your realm in adjacent regions (that belongs to the same realm that you're looting) decreases as well, although not nearly as quickly.

The mythical bleed.

I seem to remember devs saying it didn't exist. Besides, even if it does, it certainly doesn't have any impacts more than 1 region away, because Rio looted Enweil quite a few times over the years and yet the western regions still loved them.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Sacha on April 14, 2012, 04:29:34 PM


64,000.

And how big will Golden Farrow get if you keep feeding it?

Much bigger.

---

As far as food is concerned, Terran has the leg up, though of course Kabrinskia can trade with Morek and whatnot.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but 64,000 is almost GFs max population these days ;)
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Vellos on April 14, 2012, 05:19:32 PM
Really?

Interesting.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Sacha on April 14, 2012, 05:29:07 PM
Two rebalances did a number on the biggest cities' populations. Giask's max population was cut almost in half, from 198,500 to I think about 104,500.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: dustole on April 14, 2012, 06:01:39 PM
66,700  is GF's max population.  We still have 1900 gold production though!  so that is really good.  Combine that with a good tax rate and GF kicked out 3296 gold last week.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Darksun on April 14, 2012, 07:04:22 PM
Really?

Interesting.

I can almost see the smoke over here as Vellos re-crunches the numbers and assumptions that he has made for this war.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Vellos on April 14, 2012, 10:33:41 PM
I can almost see the smoke over here as Vellos re-crunches the numbers and assumptions that he has made for this war.

Heh.

Yeah... Terran is taking a while to really get going here. But we'll see.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on April 14, 2012, 11:19:31 PM
The whole Zuma incident a few weeks ago was a massive blessing for Asylon. It gave me the excuse to push for Asylon to be on constant war footing, by the time the war started Asylon didnt need to prepare too much.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Vellos on April 14, 2012, 11:37:08 PM
The whole Zuma incident a few weeks ago was a massive blessing for Asylon. It gave me the excuse to push for Asylon to be on constant war footing, by the time the war started Asylon didnt need to prepare too much.

Yeah, Terran's refit times are big, but I'm pretty sure we have a significant advantage over Kabrinskia in terms of raw mobile firepower, just a long march to get to the front. :p
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Feylonis on April 15, 2012, 09:47:02 AM
The capital move from Echiur to Via really helped, too. We can strike Kabrinskia's western borders in at least two turns.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Perth on April 15, 2012, 10:04:36 AM
Yeah, Terran's refit times are big, but I'm pretty sure we have a significant advantage over Kabrinskia in terms of raw mobile firepower, just a long march to get to the front. :p

And if Asylon covers our border while we refit it shouldn't be too much of a problem.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Indirik on April 15, 2012, 03:39:48 PM
Why does it matter where Asylon's capital is in relation to Kabrinskia? King Glaumring has already stated they won't attack Kabrinskian land.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: JPierreD on April 15, 2012, 04:50:44 PM
Why does it matter where Asylon's capital is in relation to Kabrinskia? King Glaumring has already stated they won't attack Kabrinskian land.

Only if they don't get attacked.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Gustav Kuriga on April 15, 2012, 04:59:12 PM
We're not going to be stupid and get ourselves outmatched more than we already are...
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Geronus on April 15, 2012, 05:03:38 PM
You're assuming that no one tries to intentionally cause an incident. A dangerous assumption.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on April 15, 2012, 08:12:42 PM
You're assuming that no one tries to intentionally cause an incident. A dangerous assumption.

No, we are assuming that someone will but it wont be one of ours.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: OFaolain on April 15, 2012, 08:38:11 PM
You're assuming that no one tries to intentionally cause an incident. A dangerous assumption.

Which could get Astrum involved (as long as it's not a Kabrinskian); it'd be a tough gambit for the moot to take.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on April 15, 2012, 09:59:24 PM
Asylon stands by its commitment to a defensive war. Any escalation  not be intentional on our part.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Bael on April 15, 2012, 10:01:51 PM
I must admit...it is very odd to see all this politicking on the forums...very odd...
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Geronus on April 15, 2012, 10:54:24 PM
I suppose it's inevitable. Of course here we can talk about OOC things that our characters might not even know about IG.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on April 15, 2012, 11:20:44 PM
Yeah, but we should focus Ig more. I find people tend to take forum banter as canon.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on April 15, 2012, 11:48:28 PM
I must admit...it is very odd to see all this politicking on the forums...very odd...


And no one is insulting each other or calling each other namese.... very refreshing
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on April 15, 2012, 11:49:48 PM
Yeah, but we should focus Ig more. I find people tend to take forum banter as canon.

Agreed we must do this in game.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: OFaolain on April 16, 2012, 12:01:58 AM
But if you stop doing this on the forum I won't get to see any of it! >.<
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Chenier on April 16, 2012, 12:05:29 AM

And no one is insulting each other or calling each other namese.... very refreshing

Not to be an [email protected]#$%^&, but the last time I saw this type of behavior is when *you* were in D'Hara. And I've never seen it in other realms. Not internally, at least, and I don't consider Hetland idiots name-calling people of other realms and calling them cheaters as counting as the same thing.

If you've seen this type of behavior a lot, which you seem to suggest with that post, you should probably consider that you are likely part of the problem you decry.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Indirik on April 16, 2012, 12:07:34 AM
Thanks, Chenier, you just ruined it... >:(
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Chenier on April 16, 2012, 12:10:48 AM
Thanks, Chenier, you just ruined it... >:(

If name-calling is a common issue with Katayanna, then that's a serious issue imo. We don't need a "no-whine" policy, we need a "no-flame" policy. I remember things haven gotten heated and personal on more than one occasion when Katayanna was around. *That* was detrimental to the game.

I figured these were isolated incidents. If they aren't, this isn't something we should turn a blind eye to. IG OOC slander between players is really a bad thing to tolerate.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Perth on April 16, 2012, 12:17:24 AM
I thought he was meaning there was no flaming/name calling in this thread about the conflict... not in-game name calling.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on April 16, 2012, 12:53:41 AM
I thought he was meaning there was no flaming/name calling in this thread about the conflict... not in-game name calling.

That is exactly what I was talking about. sorry should have been clearer.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Indirik on April 16, 2012, 01:59:11 AM
If you think it is problem behavior, then report it to the Magistrates. Being a magistrate yourself, you should know that's the proper thing to do.


Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on April 16, 2012, 02:24:44 AM
EveryOne needs to settledown and declare war on their neighbor. Its time for Dwilight apocalypse.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Zakilevo on April 16, 2012, 02:53:40 AM
I agree. Astrum should attack Ashylon. Time to crush that overstretched realm.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: OFaolain on April 16, 2012, 03:29:45 AM
I agree. Astrum should attack Ashylon. Time to crush that overstretched realm.

Iashalur is now accepting refugees.  :P
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on April 16, 2012, 06:40:12 AM
Iashalur is now accepting refugees.  :P

Will you have enough room for all the new arrivals from Astrum?
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on April 16, 2012, 06:41:42 AM
Will you have enough room for all the new arrivals from Astrum?

OMG  Asylon is challenging Astrum?
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on April 16, 2012, 06:59:47 AM
I am assuming everyones money is on Astrum?
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Feylonis on April 16, 2012, 07:23:46 AM
I'm highly surprised we're all still trying to pretend SA won't jump in to save Kabrinskia if times get tough.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on April 16, 2012, 07:28:09 AM
6975 cs of tarran and barca forces entering Demyansk next turn. so much for Tarran being able to fight its own war or just defending their territory.

and only 2000 cs is from Tarran.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Perth on April 16, 2012, 08:51:25 AM
6975 cs of tarran and barca forces entering Demyansk next turn. so much for Tarran being able to fight its own war or just defending their territory.

and only 2000 cs is from Tarran.

For the love of the Triune, it's T-E-R-R-A-N!
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Feylonis on April 16, 2012, 09:35:37 AM
Only Asylon said that they'd stick to defending Terran lands, and so far we have done that. Barca has not issued a similar statement as far as I am aware.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Velax on April 16, 2012, 09:37:09 AM
For the love of the Triune, it's T-E-R-R-A-N!

Don't worry, we won't forget Tarran, Barka or O'Hara.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Perth on April 16, 2012, 10:19:50 AM
Don't worry, we won't forget Tarran, Barka or O'Hara.

 >:(
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Chenier on April 16, 2012, 01:17:01 PM
If you think it is problem behavior, then report it to the Magistrates. Being a magistrate yourself, you should know that's the proper thing to do.

I haven't played with Katayanna in a very, very long time. I can't tell.

That is exactly what I was talking about. sorry should have been clearer.

Then I misunderstood. The discussions here have been civil.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on April 16, 2012, 02:07:11 PM
Yeah dont forget Ashylon... The amount of times I've seen Terran misspelled is absolutely mindboggling. Just the other day someone in my own realm was spelling it Tarra... Wtf not like its that FVuvenguguguguguk realm in Bel.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Velax on April 16, 2012, 02:47:45 PM
Meh, people can't even get "Velax" right. The number of people who say "Valex"...
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on April 16, 2012, 03:06:11 PM
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on April 16, 2012, 03:44:58 PM
Oh god my name must be ' glom-randommassofletters'
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on April 16, 2012, 03:45:59 PM
lol
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Chaotrance13 on April 16, 2012, 03:56:01 PM
Don't worry, we won't forget Tarran, Barka or O'Hara.

Or Asstrum. Or Libido Empire.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on April 16, 2012, 04:30:01 PM
Kabrewski
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Vellos on April 16, 2012, 04:57:04 PM
I'm highly surprised we're all still trying to pretend SA won't jump in to save Kabrinskia if times get tough.

Times won't get tough.

None of us will be TOing each other, so, the only threat to Kabrinskia is if they are systematically stubborn and insulting.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Velax on April 16, 2012, 05:51:58 PM
Kabrewski

Better watch out for the Puma and those guys over in Malaria and Luria Whisperi.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Indirik on April 16, 2012, 07:39:27 PM
"Systematically stubborn and insulting"? Come on, this is Kabrinskia we're talking about. How likely do you think that is? ::)
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Andrew on April 16, 2012, 08:34:57 PM
"Systematically stubborn and insulting"? Come on, this is Kabrinskia we're talking about. How likely do you think that is? ::)

I believe the current odds are about 90:1 that they WON'T be stubborn or insulting at any point in this war. On the flipside, for every gold you bet that they will be, you'll get 1 gold and 1 copper back if they are! :D
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Chenier on April 19, 2012, 12:16:08 AM
Yeah dont forget Ashylon... The amount of times I've seen Terran misspelled is absolutely mindboggling. Just the other day someone in my own realm was spelling it Tarra... Wtf not like its that FVuvenguguguguguk realm in Bel.

At first, I thought you meant "Fwuvoghor". :P
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on April 19, 2012, 02:57:08 AM
Well done in Demyansk Tarran and Barca.  You coordinated well and defended in perfect unison. 

I did not expect you to be able to pull it off.  I commend you both. And I think we should end this conflict now that both sides have received a bloody nose.

Maybe now we can talk peace on equal footing.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on April 19, 2012, 03:00:08 AM
I would say as much in game but you have you have seriously wounded me.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Charles on April 19, 2012, 05:13:55 AM
A bloody nose and you want to quit?  Atleast wait till someone breaks a leg and actually has to quit! 
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on April 19, 2012, 05:39:58 AM
Bah, the game is afoot and you want to quit?
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on April 19, 2012, 05:40:44 AM
Allison is leaving and this war was hers
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on April 19, 2012, 06:53:40 AM
What do you mean Allison is leaving?
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: dustole on April 19, 2012, 06:58:51 AM
Im pausing.  RL issues.  Setting everyrhing right before i leave
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on April 19, 2012, 07:14:17 AM
Im pausing.  RL issues.  Setting everyrhing right before i leave


This really sucks, I am seriously wounded and cannot reply to anyone.... about you leaving all I know is what My step son tells me.

Wounds Worsening   (45 minutes ago)
Unfortunately, the healers say your condition is deteriorating.
Your wounds have gotten infected, and they're going to have to operate soon or you could die.
Your wounds are still very serious, and you are slipping in and out of consciousness. The healers are doing their best, and say they think you will probably recover, but they cannot tell you how long it may be.

I am not a hero, can I really die of my wounds?
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Vellos on April 19, 2012, 07:49:09 AM
Meh, I'd hate to have this war end after just a battle or two. But, hey, if Kabrinskia asks for terms of surrender, Terran isn't going to rebuff it outright. We have a deep and abiding fondness for diplomatic parchment.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on April 19, 2012, 07:53:28 AM
Meh, I'd hate to have this war end after just a battle or two. But, hey, if Kabrinskia asks for terms of surrender, Terran isn't going to rebuff it outright. We have a deep and abiding fondness for diplomatic parchment.

what kind of terms would Tarran ask for
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Vellos on April 19, 2012, 08:22:47 AM
what kind of terms would Tarran ask for

How about we do diplomacy IG, not on the forum?
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on April 19, 2012, 08:25:02 AM
How about we do diplomacy IG, not on the forum?

OK I agree there. just curious as I cannot speak in game at the moment and for some time to come apparently.....  I hate being wounded... But you are right it should be done in game.

Katayanna is getting old.... easily wounded.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: fodder on April 19, 2012, 08:42:35 AM
what.. no ambassador?
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on April 19, 2012, 08:43:46 AM
what.. no ambassador?

I thought Allison was our ambassador... but I could be wrong, no way to check right now.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Feylonis on April 19, 2012, 12:15:06 PM
wat. But I wanted Mech Alb and Elets (which means the war should have progressed to Asylon being in aggressive position). :(
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Geronus on April 19, 2012, 02:31:49 PM
Im pausing.  RL issues.  Setting everyrhing right before i leave

*sniff* Say it ain't so!  :'(

Allison is a huge part of what makes SA and Dwilight great in my book. Who's going to stir up trouble if you're not around? A bunch of two-bit talentless hacks, that's who!

I'll miss you.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on April 19, 2012, 03:28:31 PM
Well with Allison gone there is nothing holding Asylon back from completely destroying Kabrinskia! ;)
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on April 19, 2012, 04:17:03 PM
Well with Allison gone there is nothing holding Asylon back from completely destroying Kabrinskia! ;)

That would be the one thing that would get Astrum involved and Possibly Morek as well....
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on April 19, 2012, 06:14:23 PM
Astrum was a powerful kingdom once, and Morek is far away. The new reality is an ascendant Asylon and a powerful unified southern alliance. Without Allison SA will once again fall into a yawning silence carried foward by its many comfortable nobles as the east lands fall apart under their own malaise from lack of interested nobles. The massive SA alliance should end, SA should schism and war should be the hallmark of a grand new age of intrigue and skullduggery. Instead SA will continue to chug foward and keep pushing to fight southward and eventually fall apart under its own weight. Oh for the old days of the eastlands when kingdoms once had nationalism and pride on their own ascendance. Gone now.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Meneldur on April 19, 2012, 06:37:20 PM
*sniff* Say it ain't so!  :'(

Allison is a huge part of what makes SA and Dwilight great in my book. Who's going to stir up trouble if you're not around? A bunch of two-bit talentless hacks, that's who!

I'll miss you.

^This. I can't imagine SA being anywhere near as fun without Allison... :(
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on April 19, 2012, 06:44:44 PM
Allison was both my greatest bane and boon. More often a boon. Please hurry back.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Vellos on April 19, 2012, 07:44:13 PM
Astrum was a powerful kingdom once, and Morek is far away. The new reality is an ascendant Asylon and a powerful unified southern alliance. Without Allison SA will once again fall into a yawning silence carried foward by its many comfortable nobles as the east lands fall apart under their own malaise from lack of interested nobles. The massive SA alliance should end, SA should schism and war should be the hallmark of a grand new age of intrigue and skullduggery. Instead SA will continue to chug foward and keep pushing to fight southward and eventually fall apart under its own weight. Oh for the old days of the eastlands when kingdoms once had nationalism and pride on their own ascendance. Gone now.

Good luck convincing Terran to engage in a war of conquest.  ;) We would be more than happy to defend you if you're under attack, but Terran is still a very conservative realm when it comes to aggression. By our books, we have still only ever had one aggressive war, and it was against Itaulond.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on April 19, 2012, 08:13:51 PM
We do not wish for aggressive war but we will not be cowed by other nations incapable weilding Astrum as a club. Asylon is also a kingdom of the stars. And if the stars desire our rise we will follow its call.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Perth on April 19, 2012, 08:14:39 PM
Tarran

Okay, now you've got to be doing it on purpose...  >:(
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Velax on April 19, 2012, 09:10:38 PM
Don't worry, Perch. Assylon will defend Terren's honour from the evil Currinskians!
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on April 19, 2012, 09:56:05 PM
Arselyon...
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Masochist on April 19, 2012, 11:03:02 PM
I am new...I don't know Allison of the exploits of said character...but give me some time and I will be doing my part to make things interesting =P
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Indirik on April 19, 2012, 11:11:10 PM
Maybe Brance will have to follow in Allisons footsteps with a bit of trepanning, and go mad.

Or the new Regent could make a big flub and we will schism.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on April 19, 2012, 11:13:42 PM
I am new...I don't know Allison of the exploits of said character...but give me some time and I will be doing my part to make things interesting =P

You have some big shoes to fill if you are going to try to be another allison.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Masochist on April 19, 2012, 11:25:44 PM
I am just gonna be myself...no point in being a clone especially since I don't know their exploits.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on April 20, 2012, 12:42:01 AM
Personally I believe unless pushed many in the main SA theocracies will tow the line and maintain homogenized society in order to maintain safety in numbers, making for probable long term survival but a longer slower form of play style that will grind out any fun to be had instead of a map that is filled with empires that quickly rise, blossom and fall apart into war and a blaze of glory.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Foundation on April 20, 2012, 12:43:09 AM
I believe in miracles.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Chaotrance13 on April 20, 2012, 01:05:17 AM
With the arrival of an old friend of mine.. I think I might stir something up at some point. When the time is right, of course.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Marlboro on April 20, 2012, 01:23:17 AM
Personally I believe unless pushed many in the main SA theocracies will tow the line and maintain homogenized society in order to maintain safety in numbers, making for probable long term survival but a longer slower form of play style that will grind out any fun to be had instead of a map that is filled with empires that quickly rise, blossom and fall apart into war and a blaze of glory.

Part of the reason I'll prolly pause my knight once Allison retires. If I wanted status quo I would've just unpaused my second CE character instead of rolling a new guy for the express purpose of being the villain's henchman.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Gustav Kuriga on April 20, 2012, 01:49:26 AM
Gustav will do something. Just think of him as the calm, collected Lieutenant stepping into the Overlords shoes.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Chenier on April 20, 2012, 02:12:52 AM
Only a crazy person like Allison can lead a realm of crazies to do crazy things.

Allison may indeed have triggered more than she thought, though...
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Penchant on April 20, 2012, 03:18:02 AM
Allison is unique due to the controversy always made. Unless I am mistaken she actually had the elder council of SA corrupt so she could get what ever result she wanted on a vote.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Indirik on April 20, 2012, 03:20:40 AM
She was trying to place her toadies in all the spots. She did not succeed. She definitely had a lot of votes, but nowhere near enough to force every vote to go her way.

Also, Corrupt implies that the people she put there are doing it for money, personal power, favors, etc. When the people you put there actually believe you, and are willig to do whatever it takes to support you, it's not really "corrupt". Sycophants, yes-men, whatever. But not "Corrupt".
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Daycryn on April 20, 2012, 03:23:37 AM
What we need is someone who's had some good experience playing really nasty characters.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on April 20, 2012, 03:24:37 AM
The Dragon Queen could return. that might be exciting
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Penchant on April 20, 2012, 03:33:01 AM
The Dragon Queen could return. that might be exciting
The Dragon Queen takes the throne once more, now in Kabrinskia would be the headlines of the next Ashrak Imperialist though I doubt many of you read this newspaper.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on April 20, 2012, 03:34:28 AM
lol
unfortunately, Katayanna is not going to be Grandmistress.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Chenier on April 20, 2012, 03:48:19 AM
The Dragon Queen could indeed return... for a proper funeral.

Perhaps I should ask our allies to add a clause about her in Kabrinskia's surrender.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on April 20, 2012, 03:52:26 AM
I have been planning for a while a sort of rise and fall like drama for Glaumring, a king who is born idealistic and then slowly over time becomes more and more mad from the Bloodmoon fruit, eventually descending into cannibalistic orgies in his now black and depressing kingdom where once hope and idealism sprung... Living up to the name and meaning of 'Asylon' meaning 'Asylum'.... Ironic isn't it, lord of the Bloodmoon fruit, king of Asylum...Driven mad... Muahahhahahahahha
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Andrew on April 20, 2012, 03:59:56 AM
The Dragon Queen could return. that might be exciting

I could also start writing newspapers again. :P
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on April 20, 2012, 04:06:39 AM
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Chenier on April 20, 2012, 04:50:44 AM
Why are you so afraid of Katayanna, a mere knight now... lol

and the Dragon Queen no longer exists. now

Afraid, not quite. Vindictive, quite a bit.

He enjoys seeing those who slighted him or threaten his realm suffer.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on April 20, 2012, 05:43:37 AM
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Andrew on April 20, 2012, 05:53:51 AM
O noez!
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Gustav Kuriga on April 20, 2012, 05:58:50 AM
<_< Gustav is not a Sycophant... if you'll notice, he supports one of the people who called for Allison's Magistratum for Consul...
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Marlboro on April 20, 2012, 07:26:10 AM
If I recall you were one of the ring leaders of the rebellion. how did she ever threaten you .......... she trusted you and you stabbed her in the back as I recall. And how is she threatening your realm..... I mean her realm that you helped steal from her.  are you afraid that she is garnering the power and support to take it back? Hmmmm  could be we shall see.

Cheniers gonna Chenier.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Chenier on April 20, 2012, 01:28:39 PM
If I recall you were one of the ring leaders of the rebellion. how did she ever threaten you .......... she trusted you and you stabbed her in the back as I recall. And how is she threatening your realm..... I mean her realm that you helped steal from her.  are you afraid that she is garnering the power and support to take it back? Hmmmm  could be we shall see.

Machiavel supported the Dragon Queen until it was clear that you would lose. Then he worked for both sides until Katayanna spoke about taking the struggling realm's resources for her colony.

What the Dragon Queen wanted to take would be peanuts by out standards today, but back then, D'Hara was dirt poor and in [email protected]#$ condition. Machiavel truly felt threatened and betrayed by the move.

He also knows that she holds a grudge. He doesn't like that, he considers such things as latent threats that must be pacified one way or another, one day or another.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Vellos on April 20, 2012, 05:15:54 PM
And now 11,000 CS of Zuma show up in Mech Derris.

lol.

Bring it on, Zuma!

Also, I would like to note what may be the beginning of the fulfillment of the prediction a while back that the presence of the Zuma means that politics in the area, even unrelated politics on totally different issues in very different areas, will ultimately be determined by who sucks up to the Zuma GM the most.

But, that said, I'm glad to see the Zuma actually doing something rather than just looming ominously.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: dustole on April 20, 2012, 05:23:52 PM
The problem is that Hireshmont has always tried to manipulate the Zuma.  When SA passed their universal preaching you tried to spin it in such a way that the Zuma would get angry.  I believe you were involved in the Zuma/Iashalur incident as well.  That isn't even including Zuma/Terran troubles from the past.



This has very little to do with me and is mostly about the Zuma wanting to keep Hireshmont in check.  OOCly I think that the only reason the Zuma haven't wiped out Terran already is the massive amount of bitching and complaining on this forum the last time they were fighting people.  This is the new, Zuma limited warfare me thinks.  Plus it gave them an excuse to get their army back home that was stuck up in the northern mountains.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Indirik on April 20, 2012, 05:27:54 PM
Plus it gave them an excuse to get their army back home that was stuck up in the northern mountains.
I liked having him there. :( Our own little monster grinder...
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Vellos on April 20, 2012, 05:45:21 PM
This has very little to do with me and is mostly about the Zuma wanting to keep Hireshmont in check.

That I do not believe for a moment. It is not credible that Hireshmont poses now or ever has or ever will pose any threat to the Zuma. The entire combined armies of Barca and Terran together... barely equal FangFang. It's like a human army declaring a need to keep the Grasshopper Horde in check. It just doesn't make sense.

It makes sense to enter the war on the side of an ally who has offered you something; but not just to keep the little realm in check.

And, frankly, I think the Zuma GM is a better RPer than to launch a war just to screw with Hireshmont. If that's seriously the reason... that's lame. If the Zuma GM is just getting involved in politics and letting the hammer drop, great, awesome, let's fight. But if it's just some kind of, "I don't like this character, let's destroy an army"... that's lame, and doesn't exactly contribute much to the other 99% of armies.

In sum, I think you are either wrong/lying, because I don't think the Zuma GM is that petty.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Velax on April 20, 2012, 06:11:24 PM
Maybe Terrence is involved again? Mwahahahaha!
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on April 20, 2012, 06:14:18 PM
Everyone knows its Asylon who controls Terrence... Who controls the daimons, who control Kabrinskia....muhahahaha
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Vellos on April 20, 2012, 06:15:20 PM
Maybe Terrence is involved again? Mwahahahaha!

lol, wouldn't that be fun.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on April 20, 2012, 06:16:05 PM
lol, wouldn't that be fun.

OK who is terrence
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Vellos on April 20, 2012, 06:21:00 PM
OK who is terrence

An adventurer who once incited the Zuma to war against Terran and Barca.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on April 20, 2012, 06:23:10 PM
Who lives in Asylon  :-[
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Vellos on April 20, 2012, 06:24:25 PM
Who lives in Asylon  :-[

Well... is he actually physically IN Asylon?

Because if so, you've been supposed to arrest him for a very long time.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Velax on April 20, 2012, 06:54:08 PM
An adventurer who once incited the Zuma to war against Terran and Barca.

He may also have had something to do with the Blight over Paisly.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Sacha on April 20, 2012, 06:56:50 PM
All I can say is, Luria totally didn't have anything to do with it. Totally.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on April 20, 2012, 07:10:05 PM
Well... is he actually physically IN Asylon?

Because if so, you've been supposed to arrest him for a very long time.


He comes and goes. He is out of Asylon now for a few weeks.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: dustole on April 20, 2012, 07:47:59 PM
Quite honestly Haktoo told Allison that she did not like Hireshmont.  That it was Hireshmont who tried to goad her into attacking Kabrinskia and SA over the preaching law that was passed.   

My plan was to declare war against Terran in the spring.  I told Haktoo of my plans.  I also told her of my worry that when this happened that Barca and D'hara would declare war on me and possibly Asylon.  I was told to go ahead with my plans and that if other realms fought against me to support Terran then the Zuma would get invovled.  I think she wanted to see Hireshmont get a bloody nose from kabrinskia and to keep it a 1 on 1 war.    Then, a day later Terran declares war on me and so does Barca.  So Haktoo immediately started marching Fang Fang south.  But he had to pass through mountains to get here in the winter time and that took forever.

I did not have to promise anything or do anything for the Zuma for this to happen.  It was triggered when Barca entered.  I am guessing it has more to do with keeping the Zuma's neighbors from getting much stronger.  You guys do have a history with the Zuma and Haktoo very much dislikes Hireshmont. 
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Dante Silverfire on April 20, 2012, 07:56:33 PM
All I can say is, Luria totally didn't have anything to do with it. Totally.

How did you manage to have the Zuma come and kill me? That's crazy...
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Vellos on April 20, 2012, 07:57:05 PM
Quite honestly Haktoo told Allison that she did not like Hireshmont.  That it was Hireshmont who tried to goad her into attacking Kabrinskia and SA over the preaching law that was passed.   

My plan was to declare war against Terran in the spring.  I told Haktoo of my plans.  I also told her of my worry that when this happened that Barca and D'hara would declare war on me and possibly Asylon.  I was told to go ahead with my plans and that if other realms fought against me to support Terran then the Zuma would get invovled.  I think she wanted to see Hireshmont get a bloody nose from kabrinskia and to keep it a 1 on 1 war.    Then, a day later Terran declares war on me and so does Barca.  So Haktoo immediately started marching Fang Fang south.  But he had to pass through mountains to get here in the winter time and that took forever.

I did not have to promise anything or do anything for the Zuma for this to happen.  It was triggered when Barca entered.  I am guessing it has more to do with keeping the Zuma's neighbors from getting much stronger.  You guys do have a history with the Zuma and Haktoo very much dislikes Hireshmont.

I desperately hope you are leaving something out, and that the Zuma GM is not just going around offering to hop onboard wars.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Dante Silverfire on April 20, 2012, 07:58:30 PM
I desperately hope you are leaving something out, and that the Zuma GM is not just going around offering to hop onboard wars.

Of course something is being left out. This is "Allison" after all.

Then again, the Zuma could still be hoping onboard wars for all we know.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Anaris on April 20, 2012, 08:01:23 PM
I desperately hope you are leaving something out, and that the Zuma GM is not just going around offering to hop onboard wars.

Did you miss the part where Haktoo was annoyed with Hireshmont for trying to get the Zuma to do what he wanted?
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Solari on April 20, 2012, 08:04:11 PM
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Dante Silverfire on April 20, 2012, 08:05:18 PM
Pretty sure the aegis is all the impetus they would require.

Seeing as no one in Luria is conceivably aware of that, it would be very interesting for them to know.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Solari on April 20, 2012, 08:06:47 PM
Seeing as no one in Luria is conceivably aware of that, it would be very interesting for them to know.

I don't know if you're aware, but when you wield a unique item, it shows up in the battle report.  When the battle is big enough, every realm gets it.  Everyone on Dwilight knows Brom Silverfire has the Zuma's aegis.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Dante Silverfire on April 20, 2012, 08:11:50 PM
I don't know if you're aware, but when you wield a unique item, it shows up in the battle report.  When the battle is big enough, every realm gets it.  Everyone on Dwilight knows Brom Silverfire has the Zuma's aegis.

Well that's not true. Everyone on Dwilight knows Brom Silverfire has Brom Silverfire's aegis, which just happens to have historic Zuma significance.

Let the fun begin. (Here's wondering if the Zuma will chase Brom with their army on the Kabrinskian-Terran border)
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Anaris on April 20, 2012, 08:13:20 PM
Well that's not true. Everyone on Dwilight knows Brom Silverfire has Brom Silverfire's aegis, which just happens to have historic Zuma significance.

Let the fun begin. (Here's wondering if the Zuma will chase Brom with their army on the Kabrinskian-Terran border)

And, again, you confuse "I found this" with "I own this."

It's the Aegis of the Zuma. As in, belonging to...the Zuma. Honestly, how stubborn and greedy do you have to be not to see that?
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Dante Silverfire on April 20, 2012, 08:15:39 PM
And, again, you confuse "I found this" with "I own this."

It's the Aegis of the Zuma. As in, belonging to...the Zuma. Honestly, how stubborn and greedy do you have to be not to see that?

Okay, let me clarify something:

*I* as the player understand the difference.

Brom Silverfire does not. Is that reasonable enough?
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Vellos on April 20, 2012, 08:16:01 PM
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Vellos on April 20, 2012, 08:16:22 PM
Okay, let me clarify something:

*I* as the player understand the difference.

Brom Silverfire does not. Is that reasonable enough?

Didn't you read the label on the back saying "Made in Nightmarch"?
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Indirik on April 20, 2012, 08:18:45 PM
Actually, it just has a name "Aegis of the Zuma". That no more makes it property of the Zuma than the name "Shield of Libiddo" means that the Shield belongs to Libiddo. Or that Ucdauh's Spear belongs to someone named Ucdauh? (sp?)

How is Brom to know that the Zuma stake a claim to every item that bears the name "of the Zuma"? If Brance got his hands on one of those, he would not instantly assume that the Zuma own it, and that he should give it back to them. If the Zuma want to claim that is the case, then the Zuma need to make that info public. Which, so far as I know, they have not.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Solari on April 20, 2012, 08:19:34 PM
Didn't you read the label on the back saying "Made in Nightmarch"?

Designed by Haktoo in Nightmarch.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Solari on April 20, 2012, 08:21:08 PM
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Dante Silverfire on April 20, 2012, 08:21:43 PM
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Solari on April 20, 2012, 08:24:55 PM
I *Knew* you were lying about that. Haktoo didn't tell you a thing. Nice fabricated letter though. (Also: Salvation of Pian, and Destruction of Solaria are two different things.)

Of course not.  That doesn't make the letter a forgery.  It means that it came from the only person that could speak for (and to) Haktoo.  Haktoo can't communicate directly with player characters through letters.  That's why she has an ambassador, or you have to send emissaries.  Or, if you're especially bold like Allison, you wander down there for palavers.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Anaris on April 20, 2012, 08:25:13 PM
Okay, let me clarify something:

*I* as the player understand the difference.

Brom Silverfire does not. Is that reasonable enough?

In this case, you were attributing the knowledge of the ownership of the Aegis not to Brom, but to "Everyone on Dwilight".
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Dante Silverfire on April 20, 2012, 08:27:03 PM
In this case, you were attributing the knowledge of the ownership of the Aegis not to Brom, but to "Everyone on Dwilight".

What? I'm really confused as to what this is supposed to mean?
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Anaris on April 20, 2012, 08:29:35 PM
What? I'm really confused as to what this is supposed to mean?

In the message I replied to, reiterating the "you found it, you don't own it" thing, you were saying that "Everyone on Dwilight knows Brom Silverfire has Brom Silverfire's aegis, which just happens to have historic Zuma significance," as opposed to "Everyone on Dwilight knows Brom Silverfire has the Zuma's aegis."

This was all in the context (as I understood it, at least) of Lurians knowing why the Zuma might want to hunt down and/or kill Brom.

Thus, who Brom thought the true owner of the Aegis was wouldn't matter in this case.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Dante Silverfire on April 20, 2012, 08:34:53 PM
In the message I replied to, reiterating the "you found it, you don't own it" thing, you were saying that "Everyone on Dwilight knows Brom Silverfire has Brom Silverfire's aegis, which just happens to have historic Zuma significance," as opposed to "Everyone on Dwilight knows Brom Silverfire has the Zuma's aegis."

This was all in the context (as I understood it, at least) of Lurians knowing why the Zuma might want to hunt down and/or kill Brom.

Thus, who Brom thought the true owner of the Aegis was wouldn't matter in this case.

Ahh, well Brom thinks that if you find something you own it. Doesn't really care about it saying "of the Zuma" except for the prestige/power it'd bring him.

*I* on the other hand, understand the whole situation. Brom doesn't see it as everyone on Dwilight knowing he has the *Zuma's* Aegis because he sees it as his own. *I* on the other hand, see it as quite interesting of a circumstance.

The Lurians want Brom hunted down (or some of them rather), but whther or not they use the Zuma to do it is different.

Namely: Brom knows everyone knows that he has possession of the Aegis. Who they decide owns it is another matter.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Marlboro on April 21, 2012, 12:52:10 AM
The Glowing Aegis of the Zuma is a unique item, which means it's not just a +2 Prestige Large Shield. It's some badass thing of alien manufacture with its own backstory (unless it totally doesn't have a wiki page). When people hear the bards sing of the battles it's involved in (Or however that news is supposed to be spread), don't you think certain identifying attributes of this awesome asskicking device would be involved in it?

That said, could be and probably is just speculation. Who really knows? This thing totally came out of the blue for me, though I've only had an advy on Dwilight up until very recently and he's been more involved with his monster-huntin' pals than anything resembling politics. All I know is that unique items are like the Ashbringer or Sting or any other famous artifact from any number of settings; even the peasantry has some basic understanding of what they look like and what they do.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Perth on April 21, 2012, 05:03:29 AM
This is so dumb.

Dwilight has officially become "Zuma Diplomacy Master"

Whoever can woo the Zuma automatically becomes winner of whatever war they are in.


So dumb. We try to fight the first real Human vs. Human war in the history of the southwest pretty much, and it is ruined by the freaking Zuma. WTF.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Marlboro on April 21, 2012, 05:04:48 AM
This is so dumb.

Dwilight has officially become "Zuma Diplomacy Master"

Whoever can woo the Zuma automatically becomes winner of whatever war they are in.


So dumb. We try to fight the first real Human vs. Human war in the history of the southwest pretty much, and it is ruined by the freaking Zuma. WTF.

http://forum.battlemaster.org/index.php/topic,2355.0.html

There ya go bud
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Perth on April 21, 2012, 05:05:53 AM
http://forum.battlemaster.org/index.php/topic,2355.0.html

There ya go bud

Um.. what? Okay..?
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Indirik on April 21, 2012, 05:26:55 AM
Please do not start another "zuma suck" thread. If this turns into another trash the zuma thing, I will lock the hell out of it. If you want to complain about the zuma send your messages straight to Tom. There's not a single damn thing that anyone else here can do to address your issues.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Dante Silverfire on April 21, 2012, 05:29:33 AM
Please do not start another "zuma suck" thread. If this turns into another trash the zuma thing, I will lock the hell out of it. If you want to complain about the zuma send your messages straight to Tom. There's not a single damn thing that anyone else here can do to address your issues.

I agree here, I didn't help things talking about the Brom's item interaction with the Zuma, but it had at least some relation to current events in the war. We should focus on the events of the war for this thread.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Chenier on April 21, 2012, 05:41:23 AM
Please do not start another "zuma suck" thread. If this turns into another trash the zuma thing, I will lock the hell out of it. If you want to complain about the zuma send your messages straight to Tom. There's not a single damn thing that anyone else here can do to address your issues.

No matter how I try to convince myself that they must have a legitimate reason for doing whatever they do, every time I see the Zuma doing something I get this really sour taste in my mouth.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on April 21, 2012, 05:44:18 AM
I agree here, I didn't help things talking about the Brom's item interaction with the Zuma, but it had at least some relation to current events in the war. We should focus on the events of the war for this thread.

I agree here, lets keep on track
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Perth on April 21, 2012, 07:39:44 AM
How am I not focusing on the events of the war?

Is the Zuma intervention not the events of the war? Clearly they are. And it sucks.


Please, tell me how I'm wrong: Dwilight is officially Zuma Diplomacy Master: Woo the Zuma or you lose.


I'm playing everything out IC, don't get me wrong. It's just that this is so damn annoying, even when we ignore them they come after us.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Geronus on April 21, 2012, 07:43:02 AM
Again, I don't really buy it. It's possible we have a Terrence 2.0 situation where the Haktoo chats with everyone except the people alleged to have said or done something, but I don't think so.

Hireshmont hasn't communicated with Haktoo in over 20 days. The sum of the communication he has received from Haktoo in the last 30 days is:
Roleplay from Haktoo   (25 days ago)
A single female Zuma comes to you and speaks, "Haktoo thanks you for your information. The one known as Allison has just arrived in our lands to talk, so this will be getting questioned as, if it is as you say, and as it appears, that is not acceptable."

Maybe from that I'm supposed to derive, "Haktoo is deeply upset with Hireshmont and will take the next opportunity to support an enemy of Terran because of a personal vendetta against Hireshmont." Not sure how, but maybe.

Again, I'm not saying Haktoo doesn't have some kind of reasoning. And I'm not saying I expect to know it. I'm just saying I don't buy the reasoning as presented here in this thread. If it really is that... I'm disappointed in the Zuma GM, because it's the same thing all over again: zero communication, no warning or evident provocation, massive army attacking Terran, chilling effect, long delay until anything fun happens again. But I don't think that's what's going on here.

I'm assuming they are pursuing their agenda, or at least Hireshmont is. Hence the characterization of Allison as a Zuma lackey, and not vice versa.

Just because she hasn't directly said "I'm upset with you" in the last 30 days doesn't mean she doesn't already strongly dislike Hireshmont due to your previous interactions, which by all accounts were borderline disastrous. Brance shares almost everything he gets from Hireshmont with the council, so I see a lot of what he writes. During that little tiff over Demyansk before Kabrinskia was founded, my character was ready to pick up a torch and start burning Terran to the ground, so don't underestimate Hireshmont's ability to make people hate his guts. Hell, even though Hireshmont's been very reasonable in his communications with Astrum lately Lysander still doesn't like him, all because of his attitude in Astrum's earlier interactions with him.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Marlboro on April 21, 2012, 07:44:57 AM
How am I not focusing on the events of the war?

Is the Zuma intervention not the events of the war? Clearly they are. And it sucks.


Please, tell me how I'm wrong: Dwilight is officially Zuma Diplomacy Master: Woo the Zuma or you lose.


I'm playing everything out IC, don't get me wrong. It's just that this is so damn annoying, even when we ignore them they come after us.

Man 10K CS is chump change compared to the Overlord's posse. No wonder you don't have a character on BT. I can see how it would suck to go from completely steamrolling the enemy to having a pitched battle with weirdos wherein heroes are born and legends are forged though, that's pretty terrible. ;)
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Geronus on April 21, 2012, 07:48:35 AM
Um.. what? Okay..?

I'm guessing he meant to link this thread:

http://forum.battlemaster.org/index.php/topic,1792.570.html (http://forum.battlemaster.org/index.php/topic,1792.570.html)
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Marlboro on April 21, 2012, 07:52:07 AM
I'm guessing he meant to link this thread:

http://forum.battlemaster.org/index.php/topic,1792.570.html (http://forum.battlemaster.org/index.php/topic,1792.570.html)

D'oh. So many tabs, so little time...
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Vellos on April 21, 2012, 08:35:15 AM
Just because she hasn't directly said "I'm upset with you" in the last 30 days doesn't mean she doesn't already strongly dislike Hireshmont due to your previous interactions, which by all accounts were borderline disastrous. Brance shares almost everything he gets from Hireshmont with the council, so I see a lot of what he writes. During that little tiff over Demyansk before Kabrinskia was founded, my character was ready to pick up a torch and start burning Terran to the ground, so don't underestimate Hireshmont's ability to make people hate his guts. Hell, even though Hireshmont's been very reasonable in his communications with Astrum lately Lysander still doesn't like him, all because of his attitude in Astrum's earlier interactions with him.

Oh, I agree. And if Haktoo were like, "Hey, I hate Hireshmont: I'm going to pummel Terran until he's removed from power," I might not exactly be happy (okay, I would be pretty disappointed), but I would get it. What perplexes me is the hypothesis that Haktoo has such a virulent hatred for Hireshmont that she will... send FangFang to attack in Demyansk, but not do anything at all on any other front?

Alternatively, considered another way: Lysander may very well dislike Hireshmont. But I don't see Lysander launching an attack on Terran anywhere. The line between "quietly despise" and "11,000 CS of soldiers attacking you" seems, to me, to indicate that something more happened, I just have no idea what.

But, again, we'll see how it all plays out. I'm bummed Terran's military command didn't want to fight in Demyansk; I was chomping at the bit to meet the Zuma in head-on battle.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Solari on April 21, 2012, 02:12:45 PM
Alternatively, considered another way: Lysander may very well dislike Hireshmont. But I don't see Lysander launching an attack on Terran anywhere. The line between "quietly despise" and "11,000 CS of soldiers attacking you" seems, to me, to indicate that something more happened, I just have no idea what.

Luria has had four civil wars, and I don't think anyone knows the real reasons for each outbreak.  Perfect information would be nice, but perfection is hard to obtain.   ;)
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Vellos on April 21, 2012, 03:54:03 PM
Luria has had four civil wars, and I don't think anyone knows the real reasons for each outbreak.  Perfect information would be nice, but perfection is hard to obtain.   ;)

Well... Luria is different. :P
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Daycryn on April 21, 2012, 05:06:16 PM
How am I not focusing on the events of the war?

Is the Zuma intervention not the events of the war? Clearly they are. And it sucks.


Please, tell me how I'm wrong: Dwilight is officially Zuma Diplomacy Master: Woo the Zuma or you lose.

Whoa, the war is over? Terran lost?

That was quick. ;)
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Zakilevo on April 21, 2012, 05:12:22 PM
Well if Zuma does attack Terran yeah Terran is doomed. But doubt FangFang will actually attack Terran. Probably will just go through Terran.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Indirik on April 21, 2012, 05:14:38 PM
Both Terran and Asylon are pretty confident, IC, of their ability to wipe out Fang Fang. :D
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Zakilevo on April 21, 2012, 06:05:18 PM
Oh? They should really test their strength against Zuma.  8)
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Lorgan on April 21, 2012, 06:06:37 PM
I thought Terran and Barca had only barely more than 11K CS together?
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Bedwyr on April 21, 2012, 07:42:45 PM
Luria has had four civil wars, and I don't think anyone knows the real reasons for each outbreak.  Perfect information would be nice, but perfection is hard to obtain.   ;)

I know OOC all (I think) of the reasons behind the most recent one, but Koli certainly never did, and my knowledge of the other three is spotty at best.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Sacha on April 21, 2012, 07:54:26 PM
Four?

Verus Luria... Giask... PeL... am I missing one?
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on April 21, 2012, 08:29:06 PM
You guys have to include militia in the unit counts. Meaning everyones armies are smaller than stats say.

Asylon isnt so much feeling confident its more that we want to have fun and not go back to region maintenance again. Keep the wars rolling.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Indirik on April 21, 2012, 08:56:26 PM
Mmm.... war....
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Dante Silverfire on April 21, 2012, 09:21:48 PM
Luria has had four civil wars, and I don't think anyone knows the real reasons for each outbreak.  Perfect information would be nice, but perfection is hard to obtain.   ;)

I do!

I was (edit: one of)the leaders of all of them, excluding the one where Alanna was fighting off King Kaenji.

The only problem is that your "perfect information" won't be believed because so many ppl in Luria won't trust what Brom tells them.
-------------

So should we take bets on whether Fang Fang will just straight out attack Terran? Or simply walk around with his army in their regions for a while? I'm leaning towards the 2nd one personallly.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Perth on April 21, 2012, 10:26:41 PM
Whoa, the war is over? Terran lost?

That was quick. ;)

Essentially, yes.

We will not be able to make any further production in this war if the Zuma continue to protect Kabrinskia and that's even IF they don't outright come after us.

The only way it changes is if Terran somehow convinces the Zuma to stop aiding Kabrinskia.

Thus, it has become a game of "Woo the Daimons," nothing more.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Dante Silverfire on April 21, 2012, 10:35:04 PM
Essentially, yes.

We will not be able to make any further production in this war if the Zuma continue to protect Kabrinskia and that's even IF they don't outright come after us.

The only way it changes is if Terran somehow convinces the Zuma to stop aiding Kabrinskia.

Thus, it has become a game of "Woo the Daimons," nothing more.

I know this argument has been rehashed over and over, so I don't want to bring it back up again, but if we make the assumption that the Zuma as an entity on Dwilight are not going away anytime soon, then all nearby realms must make the consideration that they are a real physical power on Dwilight.

Knowing that, then just as in normal diplomacy all of those who have power and could be a threat to one's realm should be considered when plans for war are being made. The war is just as easily "Woo the Barcans/Asylon/Astrum" As it is "woo the Daimons".
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Indirik on April 21, 2012, 11:17:47 PM
We will not be able to make any further production in this war if the Zuma continue to protect Kabrinskia and that's even IF they don't outright come after us.

The only way it changes is if Terran somehow convinces the Zuma to stop aiding Kabrinskia.
This is all based on pure speculation, with no supporting data. You have no clue what's really happening.

Now stop spreading misinformation until you learn what's really going on.

I already gave out one warning that this thread will not be turned into another generic "whine about the Zuma" thread. There will not be a second.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Velax on April 21, 2012, 11:23:31 PM
I already gave out one warning that this thread will not be turned into another generic "whine about the Zuma" thread. There will not be a second.

Wasn't...wasn't that the second?
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Indirik on April 21, 2012, 11:32:22 PM
Do you *want* this thread locked? I'm trying to be nice here...
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Penchant on April 21, 2012, 11:46:19 PM
Do you *want* this thread locked? I'm trying to be nice here...
I think you are getting a little too agressive considering Perth didn't say the Zuma were going to attack Terran he said if they do. Now if you saying that he is whining by saying if the Zuma attacked Terran they have no chance in the war then I would have to disagree because he is just stating a fact. The Zuma have several units of Daimons bordering Terran that are about 10k CS each so I don't see how Terran would be able to defend against atleast 30k CS and attack Kabrinskia so he is just stating a fact. Thats like saying I am whining by saying if the Daimon forces on Beluterra were to focus all on one realm rather quickly so the other realm human realms couldn't help defend that the daimon forces would crush the realm. I see that as stating a fact and not whining.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Anaris on April 21, 2012, 11:50:06 PM
I think you are getting a little too agressive considering Perth didn't say the Zuma were going to attack Terran he said if they do. Now if you saying that he is whining by saying if the Zuma attacked Terran they have no chance in the war then I would have to disagree because he is just stating a fact.

That wasn't what Perth was whining about, that wasn't what Indirik was warning about, and it's very unwise to try and argue with a mod who's already given extra chances.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Penchant on April 21, 2012, 11:55:24 PM
We will not be able to make any further production in this war if the Zuma continue to protect Kabrinskia and that's even IF they don't outright come after us.

The only way it changes is if Terran somehow convinces the Zuma to stop aiding Kabrinskia.
This is what Indirik was quoting so it would seem that is what he was warning about. I am not trying to argue but defend Perth for the part that it seemed Indirik was warning about since thats what he quoted when warning. I do think Velax's statement was rather unnecassary though.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Anaris on April 21, 2012, 11:58:33 PM
This is what Indirik was quoting so it would seem that is what he was warning about. I am not trying to argue but defend Perth for the part that it seemed Indirik was warning about since thats what he quoted when warning. I do think Velax's statement was rather unnecassary though.

His original warning quoted nothing, but was right after the initial complaint, "This is becoming Zuma Diplomacy Master!"

That is the sentiment that was being warned about.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Penchant on April 22, 2012, 12:03:45 AM
His original warning quoted nothing, but was right after the initial complaint, "This is becoming Zuma Diplomacy Master!"

That is the sentiment that was being warned about.

I agree with giving a warning about that because he is complaining about the Zuma being either angry at his realm or unofficially allied with Kabrinskia but its the same for any other neighbor, if you don't want them to attack you make sure they aren't angry with you.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on April 22, 2012, 01:11:19 AM
I personally think that if terran wants the zuma to back off then they only need to have their allies stand down from this war and fight it one on one as it was originally intended.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Lorgan on April 22, 2012, 01:31:23 AM
Or just kill those daimons and be released of all of their supposedly negative influences. 11,000 CS? Psh...
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on April 22, 2012, 01:32:12 AM
Or just kill those daimons and be released of all of their supposedly negative influences. 11,000 CS? Psh...

Only 10K now I think
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Indirik on April 22, 2012, 01:56:32 AM
And if Terran, Barca, and Asylon all join their armies together, they should be able to muster over 40k mobile. That should take care of Fang Fang.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Andrew on April 22, 2012, 02:07:34 AM
And if Terran, Barca, and Asylon all join their armies together, they should be able to muster over 40k mobile. That should take care of Fang Fang.

Only about half of Barca's military is in northern Terran. Actually, probably less than that.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Indirik on April 22, 2012, 02:18:19 AM
Send the rest!
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Charles on April 22, 2012, 02:27:27 AM
Facing a 10kCS army of Daimons sounds so nice.  What is it sitting in Agyr right now 70kCS?  What kind of units do the Zuma have?  (Inf/Arch/Cav)
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Gustav Kuriga on April 22, 2012, 02:36:37 AM
Zuma have Daimons.

Also, I don't believe they will be using any other armies.

Bringing this back towards a safer part of the topic, taking out Demyansk actually took out two excellent SF centers and two other decent recruitment centers.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Charles on April 22, 2012, 04:06:06 AM
So they do not have different types?  I assume they act as infantry?  The Zuma are definitely different than the daimons in BT then.  They have unit types that mimic infantry, archers and cavalry. 
I have a hard time believing that I am not allowed to ask questions about the Zuma units.  Perhaps there is a different thread for it?
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Indirik on April 22, 2012, 04:12:03 AM
The Zuma Daimons follow the same basic rules as the BT Daimons. But I don't think anyone has actually faced Fang Fang in combat yet. 
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Zakilevo on April 22, 2012, 04:35:52 AM
As long as Fangfang is not leading flying cavalry daimons you have nothing to fear!
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on April 22, 2012, 05:44:23 AM
I think he is leading either INF  or SF type....  But I could be wrong of course this is all speculation until Terran/barca/Asylon stand and fight.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on April 22, 2012, 06:17:42 AM
Terran,Barca and Asylon versus the world...
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Velax on April 22, 2012, 07:04:31 AM
"Huge Battle Fought   (38 minutes ago)
Rumours spread and tales are sung about a huge battle in Demyansk:
Zuma Coalition vs. Kabrinskia
Estimated strengths: 90 men vs. 630 men
The Army of the Maddening Star (Kabrinskia), sponsored by Lady Allison Kabrinski, Priestess of Sanguis Astroism, Grandmistress of Kabrinskia, Duchess of the Maddening Star, Margravine of Golden Farrow, were led into battle by Marshal Artanis Adastra.
Fang Fang is spotted wielding the Swift Arrow of Suffering.
Attacker Victory!"

So...they're not on the same side now?
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Marlboro on April 22, 2012, 07:06:17 AM
Zuma Diplomacy Master is harder than you think, man.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on April 22, 2012, 08:34:25 AM
Katayanna explained best she could to the full members of the SA, I think the marshal and the general are in a bit of hot water though as the marshal issued orders to march (against what Allison said to do) and the general said go ahead with out thinking it through. lol

 
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: egamma on April 22, 2012, 08:36:52 AM
"Huge Battle Fought   (38 minutes ago)
Rumours spread and tales are sung about a huge battle in Demyansk:
Zuma Coalition vs. Kabrinskia
Estimated strengths: 90 men vs. 630 men
The Army of the Maddening Star (Kabrinskia), sponsored by Lady Allison Kabrinski, Priestess of Sanguis Astroism, Grandmistress of Kabrinskia, Duchess of the Maddening Star, Margravine of Golden Farrow, were led into battle by Marshal Artanis Adastra.
Fang Fang is spotted wielding the Swift Arrow of Suffering.
Attacker Victory!"

So...they're not on the same side now?

I love how all the misinformation probably had Terran about to beg for peace, and then Fang Fang attacked Allison. It's hilarious how the psychological warfare has spilled out of the game, and into the forums.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: MaleMaldives on April 22, 2012, 10:32:23 AM
"Huge Battle Fought   (38 minutes ago)
Rumours spread and tales are sung about a huge battle in Demyansk:
Zuma Coalition vs. Kabrinskia
Estimated strengths: 90 men vs. 630 men
The Army of the Maddening Star (Kabrinskia), sponsored by Lady Allison Kabrinski, Priestess of Sanguis Astroism, Grandmistress of Kabrinskia, Duchess of the Maddening Star, Margravine of Golden Farrow, were led into battle by Marshal Artanis Adastra.
Fang Fang is spotted wielding the Swift Arrow of Suffering.
Attacker Victory!"

So...they're not on the same side now?

As general of Terran I laughed so hard when I read this. Everyone was upset at me for issuing a retreat, because we wanted to take them on and CS wise had a fair chance at beating them. I chickened out because I did want to get destroyed if Kabrinskia fought on their side against us. Plus our army was at like 50% equipment damage. I would rather fight them with fresh full army. Luckily we had a great retreat, and now Terran still have our experienced army and Kabrinskia has been beaten down twice.

I have been a big Zuma hater, but I am not getting pissed off yet because I don't see Terran getting overwhelmed, so long as it is only FangFang getting involved. The attack on Demyansk showed that Terran/Barca already got Kabrinskia beat. People were poorly judging the beginning of the war when Terran was hardly ready. I may be overly confident that I still feel Terran will still win in the long run, but this war seems fair now.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Perth on April 22, 2012, 11:27:18 AM
This is all based on pure speculation, with no supporting data. You have no clue what's really happening.

What? Of course it is speculation. I was making a prediction about the outcome of the war based on what I have observed is happening. Sheesh, maybe you should lock the thread if no one can speculate on ongoing wars because clearly no one can ever know everything that is happening or what change in diplomacy may come. I made a prediction based on the evidence I have. You're right, I probably don't have a clue what's really happening... does that mean I can't take a guess based on what I do know?

I clearly said that IF the Daimons continue to protect Kabrinskia that Terran would make no progress in the war and our only hope would be to "woo" the Zuma. What is wrong about that statement?

Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: egamma on April 22, 2012, 02:22:07 PM
What? Of course it is speculation. I was making a prediction about the outcome of the war based on what I have observed is happening. Sheesh, maybe you should lock the thread if no one can speculate on ongoing wars because clearly no one can ever know everything that is happening or what change in diplomacy may come. I made a prediction based on the evidence I have. You're right, I probably don't have a clue what's really happening... does that mean I can't take a guess based on what I do know?

I clearly said that IF the Daimons continue to protect Kabrinskia that Terran would make no progress in the war and our only hope would be to "woo" the Zuma. What is wrong about that statement?

What's wrong is that it's clearly prejudiced against the Zuma, does not help player retention at all, and just generally makes the game less fun to play. See this thread:

http://forum.battlemaster.org/index.php/topic,2318.0.html (http://forum.battlemaster.org/index.php/topic,2318.0.html)
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Chenier on April 22, 2012, 04:00:13 PM
Sucks when manipulation backfires.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Geronus on April 22, 2012, 04:08:56 PM
Hilarious.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Gustav Kuriga on April 22, 2012, 06:07:59 PM
Yeah, yeah, laugh it up... dicks...
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on April 22, 2012, 06:12:20 PM
The Zuman attack on Kabrinskia has shown the world their desperate hubris.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Velax on April 22, 2012, 06:16:22 PM
Yeah, yeah, laugh it up... dicks...

What actually happened? Why did they attack you?
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Daycryn on April 22, 2012, 06:17:25 PM
Now that Terran can (effectively) use the Zuma aggression against Kabrinskia to their own advantage, do you think Terran folks will stop whining about Zuma involvement?

(Yes. The answer is yes.)
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Gustav Kuriga on April 22, 2012, 06:22:02 PM
Now that Terran can (effectively) use the Zuma aggression against Kabrinskia to their own advantage, do you think Terran folks will stop whining about Zuma involvement?

(Yes. The answer is yes.)

No, they'll still whine and complain.

Anyways, Velax. They attacked us because despite a letter stating otherwise from Grandmistress Allison, we were ordered to go into Demyansk by our marshal, and our Ordermarshal was too fatigued irl to think.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Velax on April 22, 2012, 06:28:10 PM
Had the Zuma told you to stay out of Demyansk? Why were they there if not to help you?

And how did they attack you when you're at peace with them? Are all Zuma units set to murderous?
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Chenier on April 22, 2012, 06:32:25 PM
Yeah, yeah, laugh it up... dicks...

Yes, we will, especially since:

Anyways, Velax. They attacked us because despite a letter stating otherwise from Grandmistress Allison, we were ordered to go into Demyansk by our marshal, and our Ordermarshal was too fatigued irl to think.

As for
Now that Terran can (effectively) use the Zuma aggression against Kabrinskia to their own advantage, do you think Terran folks will stop whining about Zuma involvement?

(Yes. The answer is yes.)

No. However amusing the sight is, I'm sure I'm not the only one who'd rather not have them in the equation at all.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Indirik on April 22, 2012, 07:01:01 PM
And how did they attack you when you're at peace with them? Are all Zuma units set to murderous?
Fang Fang has been doing some RPs on the trip down that depicted the daimons as frenzied, hungry, and rampaging from the exertion of the long run all the way down from Corridor of Torment. Something about how they were enraged and ready to kill anything they could find. We got a version of this as the daimons passed through Duil. They've been going non-stop for well over a week. That's a long trip.

I interpret the RP as "We're running on Murderous, get the hell out of our way, or you're going to be sorry."
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Chenier on April 22, 2012, 07:04:02 PM
Fang Fang has been doing some RPs on the trip down that depicted the daimons as frenzied, hungry, and rampaging from the exertion of the long run all the way down from Corridor of Torment. Something about how they were enraged and ready to kill anything they could find. We got a version of this as the daimons passed through Duil. They've been going non-stop for well over a week. That's a long trip.

I interpret the RP as "We're running on Murderous, get the hell out of our way, or you're going to be sorry."

I figured as much without even getting any of the RP. Zuma tend to be like that. "I'm gonna walk in a straight line towards you, kicking, and if you get hit it's your own damn fault for standing in the way."

How many losses did the daimons take, anyhow? How much CS did that 600+ men Kabrinskian army represent?
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Indirik on April 22, 2012, 07:05:18 PM
It would be nice to see the battle report.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Chenier on April 22, 2012, 07:06:00 PM
It would be nice to see the battle report.

Quite.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on April 22, 2012, 07:13:21 PM
Fang Fang has been doing some RPs on the trip down that depicted the daimons as frenzied, hungry, and rampaging from the exertion of the long run all the way down from Corridor of Torment. Something about how they were enraged and ready to kill anything they could find. We got a version of this as the daimons passed through Duil. They've been going non-stop for well over a week. That's a long trip.

I interpret the RP as "We're running on Murderous, get the hell out of our way, or you're going to be sorry."

We got one as fang fang came through Mech Darris, I interpreted it the same way you did, but was not listened to by the marshal. 
 
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: egamma on April 22, 2012, 08:16:20 PM
I'll join in to the battle report request. Any observers from Terran want to share with the 'Moot?
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: dustole on April 22, 2012, 08:58:38 PM
yes, essentially people didn't listen to Allison.  She told them to send 1 or 2 units to Demyansk to check out the situation.  Instead someone sent the army and then did a late turn order and only about 1/2 of the army even showed up. 

Epic Fail.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Chenier on April 22, 2012, 09:05:34 PM
yes, essentially people didn't listen to Allison.  She told them to send 1 or 2 units to Demyansk to check out the situation.  Instead someone sent the army and then did a late turn order and only about 1/2 of the army even showed up. 

Epic Fail.

Epic win.

That'll teach Allison for trying to bring the Zuma against those she provoked!
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on April 22, 2012, 09:28:03 PM
Ahh betrayal... Sweet sweet betrayal.  :D
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Vellos on April 23, 2012, 06:11:47 AM
ICly, Hireshmont is laughing it up right now.

OOCly, no, I still don't understand the Zuma involvement.

Fundamentally, I'm not opposed to Zuma involvement. I'm opposed to Zuma involvement that is entirely oriented towards terrorism and status-quo-ism. namely, massively disproportionate responses to a few players' secretive RPs; and interventions that have major chilling effects on the game.

I remain completely ignorant about what the Zuma are up to. Haktoo hasn't responded to Hireshmont yet. But, frankly, it still bothers me that the Zuma are around, even if we gained from them (for now). It's an intervention I don't understand, and I don't know how I could go about understanding it. By crushing Kabrinskia's army, it just crippled Kabrinskia's retaliation after Terran's driving Demyansk rogue: meaning it just gave Terran a big 'ole edge. Frankly, that's not fun to me. I would rather like to see Terran (and allies) smash Kabrinskia's armies in the field. We're more than capable of doing it.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Andrew on April 23, 2012, 06:33:49 AM
ICly, Karana finds this downright hilarious.

OOCly, I also find this downright hilarious. It may have something to do with Karana being in discussions with Haktoo about bringing the Glowing Aegis of the Zuma to her... when Brom defected to Kabrinskia.

Though the "If you're in my way, you shouldn't be" theory still holds up nicely.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Perth on April 23, 2012, 06:44:06 AM
ICly, Hireshmont is laughing it up right now.

OOCly, no, I still don't understand the Zuma involvement.

Fundamentally, I'm not opposed to Zuma involvement. I'm opposed to Zuma involvement that is entirely oriented towards terrorism and status-quo-ism. namely, massively disproportionate responses to a few players' secretive RPs; and interventions that have major chilling effects on the game.

I remain completely ignorant about what the Zuma are up to. Haktoo hasn't responded to Hireshmont yet. But, frankly, it still bothers me that the Zuma are around, even if we gained from them (for now). It's an intervention I don't understand, and I don't know how I could go about understanding it. By crushing Kabrinskia's army, it just crippled Kabrinskia's retaliation after Terran's driving Demyansk rogue: meaning it just gave Terran a big 'ole edge. Frankly, that's not fun to me. I would rather like to see Terran (and allies) smash Kabrinskia's armies in the field. We're more than capable of doing it.

+1
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Vellos on April 23, 2012, 06:51:22 AM
Ahem, though, OOCly, I'm kinda excited to see what the CS charts look like in a week or so.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Dante Silverfire on April 23, 2012, 06:57:01 AM
ICly, Karana finds this downright hilarious.

OOCly, I also find this downright hilarious. It may have something to do with Karana being in discussions with Haktoo about bringing the Glowing Aegis of the Zuma to her... when Brom defected to Kabrinskia.

Though the "If you're in my way, you shouldn't be" theory still holds up nicely.

Ain't that a bummer? Too bad Karana won't return any of my phone calls. I was even very nice about it...
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on April 23, 2012, 07:18:51 AM
Personally I do not like having the zuma on Dwilight at all, but have come to see them simply as another entity on Dwilight.

One not to be used, but respected as you would respect a wild animal.  I think it will take a greater understanding to work with them, but I think it is possible. to do so.

And our army did get a bloody nose, but by no means crushed.  What we lost will be easily replaced.

lol
We have the technology, we will be better than we were before.............. lol

Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Marlboro on April 23, 2012, 07:39:06 AM
The Zuma are a mobile natural disaster. If you think of them in those terms then they're really kinda cool, but if you're gonna get frustrated because you can't use diplomacy on a tornado they're gonna suck. And if for some reason you think that an enemy has that ability they're gonna look really unfair until that enemy is standing right at ground zero.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Vellos on April 23, 2012, 07:42:42 AM
No, the Zuma are not wholly unpredictable.

Kabrinskia got hurt because they didn't listen to their ruler. For people who spend lost of time investing in the Zuma, they remain a useful tool. But, yeah, if other players choose to ignore them, they get screwed.

But that's not what this thread is about. I remain simply perplexed about why they are there in the first place.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Marlboro on April 23, 2012, 07:44:23 AM
Allison's the one that appointed the general, so technically we were listening to her via her surrogate. Also I dunno how camping out in a region of ours that just went rogue while on murderous settings is being useful.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Chenier on April 23, 2012, 01:35:07 PM
The Zuma are a mobile natural disaster. If you think of them in those terms then they're really kinda cool, but if you're gonna get frustrated because you can't use diplomacy on a tornado they're gonna suck. And if for some reason you think that an enemy has that ability they're gonna look really unfair until that enemy is standing right at ground zero.

There's nothing cool about natural disasters, especially natural disasters that can so easily be influenced.

All it took was 1 damn advy to send a blatant forgery that could easily be proved as a fake to send the Zuma on a rampage against the 'moot, causing much damage and costing us much gold and unique items.

1 advy +1 forgery.

That's all.

I fail to see the fun in how easy it is to manipulate this "natural disaster".
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Anaris on April 23, 2012, 02:07:12 PM
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Geronus on April 23, 2012, 02:31:47 PM
Then that is because you have willfully ignored everything that has been said to you about the Zuma in the past few months.

Or, well, maybe not everything, but certainly one important thing often enough that you ought to be able to recite it in your sleep by now:

Haktoo will never be fooled by that kind of trick again.

Good. Because it pissed a lot of players off.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Anaris on April 23, 2012, 02:35:53 PM
Good. Because it pissed a lot of players off.

Really? You don't say? Wow, that's the first I, or the Zuma GM heard of that kind of sentiment!

Thanks, Geronus, for opening my eyes to that, which I would never have known without you pointing it out to me. That feeling certainly wasn't expressed hundreds of times across a half-dozen different threads on the forum after the incident happened, and definitely no one even suggested it after it was made perfectly crystal-clear by the Zuma GM that such a thing would never happen again!
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Velax on April 23, 2012, 03:11:43 PM
Good. Because it pissed a lot of players off.

I enjoyed it.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on April 23, 2012, 04:27:48 PM
Letter from Glaumring Apasurain   (9 hours, 43 minutes ago)
Message sent to all full members of "Sanguis Astroism" (78 recipients)
In my day we led revolts against inept leaders. And that is what seperates us.


Glaumring did indeed advocate a rebellion in Kabrinskia. And Allison is not an inept leader.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: vonGenf on April 23, 2012, 05:16:59 PM
Letter from Glaumring Apasurain   (9 hours, 43 minutes ago)
Message sent to all full members of "Sanguis Astroism" (78 recipients)
In my day we led revolts against inept leaders. And that is what seperates us.


Glaumring did indeed advocate a rebellion in Kabrinskia. And Allison is not an inept leader.

I'm sure that's not an OOC sentiment, and should be handled IC.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on April 23, 2012, 05:19:40 PM
I'm sure that's not an OOC sentiment, and should be handled IC.

You are right, it is an IC statement. I was merely quoting what he said.  It was and is being handled IC...
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on April 23, 2012, 05:28:58 PM
How is that advocating rebellion? I made a statement regarding my own experience and the extreme I went to in dealing with inept leadership. I was making fun of him, and you all for allowing your leader to let the daimons into your kingdom. And only when things go bad do you state your opposition to it. You have no courage of conviction. I pointed it out, yet the deeper meaning was lost on you. Lady Ogren is one to talk about rebellion.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on April 23, 2012, 05:56:38 PM
How is that advocating rebellion? I made a statement regarding my own experience and the extreme I went to in dealing with inept leadership. I was making fun of him, and you all for allowing your leader to let the daimons into your kingdom. And only when things go bad do you state your opposition to it. You have no courage of conviction. I pointed it out, yet the deeper meaning was lost on you. Lady Ogren is one to talk about rebellion.

I do not know what you are talking about, Sister Katayanna never once lead a rebellion. the rebellion in Shadovar was lead by Sir Mathias for what was done to then Lady Katayanna.  It is true however that she did benefit from it. she did not lead it.  She did however secede from Shadovar to form Dhara, but that is another story.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Daycryn on April 23, 2012, 06:34:35 PM
How is that advocating rebellion? I made a statement regarding my own experience and the extreme I went to in dealing with inept leadership. I was making fun of him, and you all for allowing your leader to let the daimons into your kingdom. And only when things go bad do you state your opposition to it. You have no courage of conviction. I pointed it out, yet the deeper meaning was lost on you. Lady Ogren is one to talk about rebellion.

Let's look at this.

Quote
Letter from Thomas Greyson   (14 hours, 14 minutes ago)
Message sent to all full members of "Sanguis Astroism" (78 recipients)
Daimons are not beasts. They are not unthinking, unfeeling brutes.

Daimons are capable of complicated though and incredible feats of strength, agility, and endurance.

Daimons are powerful, they possess powers that we cannot match, and they have their armour on their skin.

Daimons are not to be trifled with, betrayed, insulted or threatened.

Daimons can be reasoned with, if they have not been insulted. They have leaders and rulers, they have peons and peasants.

This lord Fang Fang is one such, an "Enforcer" if you will. He has very little independent thought of his own, and any attempts at diplomacy would need to take place with his leader.

Thomas Greyson of Solaria
Knight of the Temple of Sanguis Astroism


Letter from Glaumring Apasurain   (13 hours, 57 minutes ago)
Message sent to all full members of "Sanguis Astroism" (78 recipients)
The hydra once again raises its heads in these halls.

Glaumring Apasurain of Asylon
Knight of the Temple of Sanguis Astroism and King of Asylon

Letter from Rabisu Daycryn   (13 hours, 56 minutes ago)
Message sent to all full members of "Sanguis Astroism" (78 recipients)
Brother Thomas,

That Daimons can think, have incredible strength, agility, endurance, armored skin, and powers does not change the fact that they are nonetheless beasts. Creatures of fang and fear, which shun the Stars - in the words of our Most Holy Prophet. And they are certainly brutes; whether thinking and feeling or not, they are inhumanly mighty and loathsome things which have no love for man, for the Stars, for all our works.

Rabisu Daycryn of Kabrinskia, Priest of Sanguis Astroism
Invocator of the Cup of Sanguis Astroism

Letter from Thomas Greyson   (13 hours, 50 minutes ago)
Message sent to all full members of "Sanguis Astroism" (78 recipients)
Brother Rabisu,

If they can rationalize, if they are capable of thought and if they can plan, than they are much more than beasts in my humble opinion.

Thomas Greyson of Solaria
Knight of the Temple of Sanguis Astroism

Letter from Glaumring Apasurain   (13 hours, 50 minutes ago)
Message sent to all full members of "Sanguis Astroism" (78 recipients)
Yet you allow them into your lands without protest?

Glaumring Apasurain of Asylon
Knight of the Temple of Sanguis Astroism and King of Asylon

Letter from Rabisu Daycryn   (12 hours, 18 minutes ago)
Message sent to all full members of "Sanguis Astroism" (78 recipients)
Brother Glaumring,

I must point out that neither brother Thomas nor myself have authority to allow, or for that matter disallow, anyone into our lands.

Rabisu Daycryn of Kabrinskia, Priest of Sanguis Astroism
Invocator of the Cup of Sanguis Astroism

Letter from Glaumring Apasurain   (11 hours, 51 minutes ago)
Message sent to all full members of "Sanguis Astroism" (78 recipients)
In my day we led revolts against inept leaders. And that is what seperates us.

Glaumring Apasurain of Asylon
Knight of the Temple of Sanguis Astroism and King of Asylon

Now that last comment was in no way an answer to a question, as Glaumring later claims, and given the context of the discussion - having no authority to allow or disallow Daimons into the land, being not the ruler - the implications are rather obvious.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Vellos on April 23, 2012, 09:01:11 PM
definitely no one even suggested it after it was made perfectly crystal-clear by the Zuma GM that such a thing would never happen again!

In his defense, I don't think the Zuma GM actually ever said at all that such a scheme would never work again. You might be right about it, but I don't recall the Zuma GM saying that. I would assume Haktoo ICly is more suspicious now, of course.

But, again, that's not really relevant right now. What is relevant is any interesting theories about what is going on with the daimons' involvement now. The only theory I've heard is that they just really dislike Hireshmont (but for some reason won't tell him, and, if they're telling others in Terran, those others aren't much swayed and are keeping it secret).

Also, sidenote: is it odd that, because the statistics charts are delayed for longer, I get even more excited about seeing what the end up looking like?
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Solari on April 23, 2012, 09:06:30 PM
Why is all of this even being discussed here instead of acted upon IC?  The Zuma (like many things) are an in-game element.  They don't post on the forums.  Carefully reasoned lines of criticism on the forums don't find their way into the way the faction is played.  If people devoted half as much energy IC as they do to some of these forum threads, we'd have reached the BM Singularity by now.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Vellos on April 23, 2012, 09:10:14 PM
Regarding the Zuma, I do try to get IC information. I try very hard. I get cold-shouldered very hard. Because I the player enjoy knowing what's going on even if Hireshmont the character doesn't know, I ask around on the forum.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Solari on April 23, 2012, 09:13:34 PM
Regarding the Zuma, I do try to get IC information. I try very hard. I get cold-shouldered very hard. Because I the player enjoy knowing what's going on even if Hireshmont the character doesn't know, I ask around on the forum.

Gleaning knowledge is different than grinding axes.  No amount of complaining should change the way they're being played, because it's like seeking an OOC resolution to an IC problem.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Gustav Kuriga on April 23, 2012, 11:41:19 PM
Unless the IC issues affect the players themselves... then it becomes an OOC issue as well. NOW PLEASE... can we get this back to a conversation about the conflict itself and not the Zuma? Or else I'm just going to ask that this thread be closed. Nothing good is coming from it right now.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Chenier on April 24, 2012, 02:05:28 AM
Really? You don't say? Wow, that's the first I, or the Zuma GM heard of that kind of sentiment!

Thanks, Geronus, for opening my eyes to that, which I would never have known without you pointing it out to me. That feeling certainly wasn't expressed hundreds of times across a half-dozen different threads on the forum after the incident happened, and definitely no one even suggested it after it was made perfectly crystal-clear by the Zuma GM that such a thing would never happen again!

That it was said that it wouldn't happen doesn't make any of us any less pissed that it did happen in the first place.

Just like the Zuma coming to burn D'Hara, because apparently one of our traitors had made a pact with them, and then when we executed him upon his return (having no idea he had anything to do with the Zuma), they got pissed off with us and trashed the place, without ever giving us a hint of why.

That incident was not the first in which a single person causes the Zuma to inflict massive suffering upon a neighboring realm by doing nothing notable.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Chenier on April 24, 2012, 02:08:37 AM
Why is all of this even being discussed here instead of acted upon IC?  The Zuma (like many things) are an in-game element.  They don't post on the forums.  Carefully reasoned lines of criticism on the forums don't find their way into the way the faction is played.  If people devoted half as much energy IC as they do to some of these forum threads, we'd have reached the BM Singularity by now.

They rarely every reply IG either, so there's little difference. Plus, talking with them tends to make things worse, so...

Unless the IC issues affect the players themselves... then it becomes an OOC issue as well. NOW PLEASE... can we get this back to a conversation about the conflict itself and not the Zuma? Or else I'm just going to ask that this thread be closed. Nothing good is coming from it right now.

The Zuma involved themselves. Don't blame us for talking about them after they show their faces and spread threats.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Perth on April 24, 2012, 03:13:25 AM
Unless the IC issues affect the players themselves... then it becomes an OOC issue as well. NOW PLEASE... can we get this back to a conversation about the conflict itself and not the Zuma? Or else I'm just going to ask that this thread be closed. Nothing good is coming from it right now.

Uh... I guess you haven't noticed but the Zuma have landed right smack in the middle of the conflict itself. They are, for the moment, the single most important factor in the conflict. Kind of hard to get back "to a conversation about the conflict itself" without talking about the Zuma.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on April 24, 2012, 03:39:12 AM
We were having a nice ole'war and now its all Zumalooma!
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on April 24, 2012, 04:26:54 AM
Uh... I guess you haven't noticed but the Zuma have landed right smack in the middle of the conflict itself. They are, for the moment, the single most important factor in the conflict. Kind of hard to get back "to a conversation about the conflict itself" without talking about the Zuma.
They have single handedly stopped the war for all intents and purposes.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on April 24, 2012, 04:47:29 AM
Wouldn't have stopped the war if they steamrolled Terran though right?
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: MaleMaldives on April 24, 2012, 05:06:40 AM
I don't think the war has been stopped. If Karbinskia and the Zuma could fight together during the same battle against Terran then I would say it has. But since the Zuma just fought the Kabrinskia army that doesn't seem to be the case. I think Terran and Barca can take on FangFang.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Solari on April 24, 2012, 05:09:19 AM
I don't think the war has been stopped. If Karbinskia and the Zuma could fight together during the same battle against Terran then I would say it has. But since the Zuma just fought the Kabrinskia army that doesn't seem to be the case. I think Terran and Barca can take on FangFang.

Do it!  Doooo iiiiit!  Some of us are desperate to live vicariously through the southwest's (mis)adventures.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Feylonis on April 24, 2012, 06:09:45 AM
It doesn't matter much if things were said that "this will never happen again" (which, as far as most people know, has not even been promised). The damage was already done. It's like hitting a child in the face with an axe and then promising it's not going to happen again.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: De-Legro on April 24, 2012, 07:17:13 AM
It doesn't matter much if things were said that "this will never happen again" (which, as far as most people know, has not even been promised). The damage was already done. It's like hitting a child in the face with an axe and then promising it's not going to happen again.

Yes, the behavior IS starting to remind me of the actions of my two year old son.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: OFaolain on April 24, 2012, 08:43:17 AM
So, as far as anyone knows IC, FangFang could have just been passing through?  Has it proceeded further south?  Where's it going?  What's actually going on down there now?
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on April 24, 2012, 08:52:16 AM
So, as far as anyone knows IC, FangFang could have just been passing through?  Has it proceeded further south?  Where's it going?  What's actually going on down there now?
Fang Fang is staying in Demyansk at the moment and as far as I know there has been no communication with Haktoo or fang fang.

I will let you know if that changes
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on April 24, 2012, 09:00:52 AM
just noticed that the one noble that was imprisoned by Fang Fang has been released. so maybe there is hope that he will be leaving Demyansk for greener pastures in the south.

guys better get ready I think he is going to move to Leavondrow next.... at least I hope he is, The General wants his region back.

lol

Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Vellos on April 24, 2012, 06:03:25 PM
So, as far as anyone knows IC, FangFang could have just been passing through?  Has it proceeded further south?  Where's it going?  What's actually going on down there now?

I dunno actually. We haven't heard anything about the Zuma entering our lands yet, but, then again, we didn't notice when FangFang marched north either, sooo...... take Terran's observational capacities with a grain of salt.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on April 24, 2012, 06:04:42 PM
I dunno actually. We haven't heard anything about the Zuma entering our lands yet, but, then again, we didn't notice when FangFang marched north either, sooo...... take Terran's observational capacities with a grain of salt.

no he is not moving yet, just being optimistic
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Chenier on April 24, 2012, 11:26:34 PM
no he is not moving yet, just being optimistic

And doing his best to completely stall the war.

Hurray.

Zuma are so much fun.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on April 24, 2012, 11:27:20 PM
I know ........ right
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: egamma on April 25, 2012, 12:00:28 AM
no he is not moving yet, just being optimistic
just go give him a lil' shove, all friendly-like.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on April 25, 2012, 12:01:16 AM
no thats ok I have orders to stay out of Demyansk at the moment
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Chenier on April 25, 2012, 12:11:19 AM
no thats ok I have orders to stay out of Demyansk at the moment

That didn't stop you all first time around. ;)
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Dante Silverfire on April 25, 2012, 12:59:03 AM
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Chenier on April 25, 2012, 02:12:34 AM
To be fair, they didn't know they had orders to not enter Demanysk that time.

Who said anything about being fair? ;)
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Dante Silverfire on April 25, 2012, 02:14:54 AM
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Chenier on April 25, 2012, 02:41:59 AM
Well I tried... I'll tell Fang Fang to go back to fighting Terran then.

The Zuma, thus far, have only advantaged us. They crushed a part of Kabrinskia's army and blocked them from seeking retaliation.

However, there's nothing fun and exciting about this turn of events. We could deal with Kabrinskia just fine...
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: dustole on April 25, 2012, 04:38:11 AM
It really is too bad the zuma protect us while we refit and stall for time.      :-)
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Dante Silverfire on April 25, 2012, 04:40:56 AM
It really is too bad the zuma protect us while we refit and stall for time.      :-)

And restore order and loyalty in Demanysk for us while we're doing so.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Charles on April 25, 2012, 06:00:17 AM
Has anyone shared a battle report?  I would really like to see how the Zuma fight.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on April 25, 2012, 07:00:39 PM
Fang Fang is still not moving, just sitting in Demyansk.

Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Vellos on April 25, 2012, 07:04:16 PM
Fang Fang is still not moving, just sitting in Demyansk.

Plenty of peasants to eat there.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on April 25, 2012, 07:14:41 PM
Thats how they grow their army... Using something in the rogue lands. Its part of their secret.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on April 26, 2012, 01:50:03 AM
Thats how they grow their army... Using something in the rogue lands. Its part of their secret.

You know, I think your right.  Fang Fang seems to be getting stronger by the day.  The Moot should take care of it before it gets too strong for them.  And starts moving to Terran lands. Let the battle damage Demyansk.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on April 26, 2012, 02:02:23 AM
Thats why he stayed in the corridor for so long and they never tarry in our lands. He moved from rogue to rogue. And now sits there for some reason.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: GoldPanda on April 26, 2012, 10:28:27 AM
Then that is because you have willfully ignored everything that has been said to you about the Zuma in the past few months.

Or, well, maybe not everything, but certainly one important thing often enough that you ought to be able to recite it in your sleep by now:

Haktoo will never be fooled by that kind of trick again.

Really? You don't say? Wow, that's the first I, or the Zuma GM heard of that kind of sentiment!

Thanks, Geronus, for opening my eyes to that, which I would never have known without you pointing it out to me. That feeling certainly wasn't expressed hundreds of times across a half-dozen different threads on the forum after the incident happened, and definitely no one even suggested it after it was made perfectly crystal-clear by the Zuma GM that such a thing would never happen again!

So... Is Anaris the Zuma GM?

*puts on tin-foil hat* Or maybe he just wants us to think he's the Zuma GM?  :o
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Anaris on April 26, 2012, 01:21:57 PM
So... Is Anaris the Zuma GM?

*puts on tin-foil hat* Or maybe he just wants us to think he's the Zuma GM?  :o

I am not the Zuma GM.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on April 26, 2012, 03:07:20 PM
A very interesting turn of events.

Roleplaying Event   (7 hours, 18 minutes ago)
Message sent to everyone in the vicinity of Demyansk (28 recipients)
The Daimons that have been rampaging around the region of Demyansk for days finally seem to calm down, their anger and starvation perhaps sated. Although they still make a few noises, peasants that come into view are no longer chased down and devoured.

Fang Fang


Does this mean that Fang Fang is no longer on murderous?  Maybe the war can continue now.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: egamma on April 26, 2012, 04:44:40 PM
A very interesting turn of events.

Roleplaying Event   (7 hours, 18 minutes ago)
Message sent to everyone in the vicinity of Demyansk (28 recipients)
The Daimons that have been rampaging around the region of Demyansk for days finally seem to calm down, their anger and starvation perhaps sated. Although they still make a few noises, peasants that come into view are no longer chased down and devoured.

Fang Fang


Does this mean that Fang Fang is no longer on murderous?  Maybe the war can continue now.

I think it means that Kabrinksia should charge into the region on murderous. After all, those daimons should be fat and slow now, easy targets.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on April 26, 2012, 04:46:19 PM
I think it means that Kabrinksia should charge into the region on murderous. After all, those daimons should be fat and slow now, easy targets.

lol ..... I don't think so
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: vonGenf on April 26, 2012, 04:47:47 PM
lol ..... I don't think so

But you're not sure.

And, really, there is only one way to find out!
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Solari on April 26, 2012, 04:48:14 PM
I am not the Zuma GM.

*stands up* No, I am not the Zuma GM!
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Indirik on April 26, 2012, 05:05:15 PM
*I* am not the Zuma GM!
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Chaotrance13 on April 26, 2012, 05:14:48 PM
And I'm the Real Slim Shady!
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: ^ban^ on April 26, 2012, 05:36:15 PM
*I* am not the Zuma GM!

No, I am Spartacus!
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: squirrel on April 26, 2012, 05:42:40 PM
Ceci n'est pas une pipe.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: James on April 26, 2012, 06:30:35 PM
No, I am Spartacus!

I am (not) Spartacus...

(but I was working with Maximus Decimus Meridius this time last week  ;D )
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Lefanis on April 26, 2012, 06:35:32 PM
No, I am Spartacus!

Hardly! I'm Spartacus!
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on April 26, 2012, 08:41:49 PM
what does Spartacus have to do with anything?
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Anaris on April 26, 2012, 08:49:28 PM
what does Spartacus have to do with anything?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8h_v_our_Q

Get cultured! ;D
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on April 26, 2012, 08:52:42 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8h_v_our_Q

Get cultured! ;D


I know who Spartacus is. just wondering what he has to do with this thread.....
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Sacha on April 26, 2012, 09:11:43 PM
Watch the movie =p
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Vellos on April 27, 2012, 05:30:36 AM
Wow. Just wow.

But, as everyone knows.... actually, I am the Zuma GM. I'm just full of self-loathing.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on April 27, 2012, 06:09:59 AM
Guys... I'm the Zuma Gm... Its awesome...
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Perth on April 27, 2012, 06:41:24 AM
What if we are all the Zuma GM?

It's like some crazy algorithmic extraction of everyone's personalities and qualities all meshed into one hive mind vehicle of destruction and terror.

THAT is why the Zuma are so unpredictable and sporadic!
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on April 27, 2012, 10:07:23 AM
What if we are all the Zuma GM?

It's like some crazy algorithmic extraction of everyone's personalities and qualities all meshed into one hive mind vehicle of destruction and terror.

THAT is why the Zuma are so unpredictable and sporadic!

Now that is funny.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Sacha on April 27, 2012, 01:03:36 PM
What if we are all the Zuma GM?

It's like some crazy algorithmic extraction of everyone's personalities and qualities all meshed into one hive mind vehicle of destruction and terror.

THAT is why the Zuma are so unpredictable and sporadic!

I don't care if it's true or not, I'm believing this!
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Chenier on April 29, 2012, 04:38:06 AM
Wow. Just wow.

But, as everyone knows.... actually, I am the Zuma GM. I'm just full of self-loathing.

I always suspected it.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Dante Silverfire on April 29, 2012, 05:08:06 AM
I'm sorry you're all wrong. Brom is the Zuma GM.

No, not me, but my character. The Zuma GM is just an algorithm which extracts Brom's actions and personalities, then tries to implement them with the Zuma forces. If the Zuma's actions don't make sense it is just because you can't understand the intricacies by which Brom operates.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on April 29, 2012, 08:59:38 AM
Ok we are getting way off topic now
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Gustav Kuriga on April 29, 2012, 11:12:36 PM
which is why I asked for this thread to be closed.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Chenier on April 29, 2012, 11:13:19 PM
which is why I asked for this thread to be closed.

Indeed, there's no more war to talk about, now that the Zuma stepped in.

Hurray!
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Jim on April 29, 2012, 11:33:04 PM
Fight the Zuma if they're getting in the way.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Chenier on April 29, 2012, 11:49:40 PM
Fight the Zuma if they're getting in the way.

Yes, because THAT will be a hell of a lot of fun, right?
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Jim on April 29, 2012, 11:50:25 PM
Yes, actually.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Chenier on April 29, 2012, 11:53:10 PM
Yes, actually.

Be my guest, then, go fight the Zuma.

We'll just sit back and applaud.

'cause I'd find it about as entertaining as banging my head on a pike.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Jim on April 30, 2012, 12:05:40 AM
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Chenier on April 30, 2012, 12:24:24 AM
That is the attitude that opens the door for the Zuma to interfere with human affairs. I find waiting around cowering at the sight of the Zuma to be no fun at all, I'd rather fight them and lose everything rather than sit around and do nothing.

Your choice.

What realm to you play in?
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Jim on April 30, 2012, 12:34:36 AM
Kabrinskia, for right now. My boy isn't too happy with Kabrinskia siding with Zuma.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: GoldPanda on April 30, 2012, 01:24:37 AM
http://pbfcomics.com/190/

Gorillas :: human realms
Crocodile :: the Zuma
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on April 30, 2012, 03:33:39 AM
The zuma are just sitting in Demyansk.

Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Marlboro on April 30, 2012, 03:39:07 AM
The zuma are just sitting in Demyansk.

They're waiting for all of Kabrinskia to get there so they can give them a friendly hug.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Chenier on April 30, 2012, 03:54:19 AM
Kabrinskia, for right now. My boy isn't too happy with Kabrinskia siding with Zuma.

Then indeed, be my guest! Go teach the Zuma a lesson!

Get the whole SA block to back you, too.

They're waiting for all of Kabrinskia to get there so they can give them a friendly hug.

Heck, you even have the opportunity to. And you are well within range, as well. Go show us how we should deal with these Zuma.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Perth on April 30, 2012, 04:06:29 AM
Your choice.

Nothing is stopping you from doing it either, bub.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Chenier on April 30, 2012, 04:11:37 AM
Nothing is stopping you from doing it either, bub.

Heck, they even have a half-decent mobile army.

Which is more that what I've ever heard anyone credit D'Hara with.

And it's right next to a daimon army. With which they already fought!
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Marlboro on April 30, 2012, 04:13:05 AM
Pretty tempting to roll into Demy on Murderous and just laugh at the ensuing carnage, but since it was you that suggested it, Chenier, I know it's a Bad Idea.

Edit: That said, the ball's there for someone else to pick up...
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Chenier on April 30, 2012, 04:25:07 AM
Pretty tempting to roll into Demy on Murderous and just laugh at the ensuing carnage, but since it was you that suggested it, Chenier, I know it's a Bad Idea.

Edit: That said, the ball's there for someone else to pick up...

My ideas are always pure gold!

But it's really T-Rex's idea. I just told him he could do it himself.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Jim on April 30, 2012, 04:53:26 AM
Nothing is stopping you from doing it either, bub.

I was in Netherworld prison for a few days for that exact reason, bub.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on April 30, 2012, 04:56:29 AM
I was in Netherworld prison for a few days for that exact reason, bub.
who are you in game?
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Perth on April 30, 2012, 08:03:24 AM
I was in Netherworld prison for a few days for that exact reason, bub.

If that the "fun" part you were referring to?
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Jim on April 30, 2012, 08:28:05 AM
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: dustole on April 30, 2012, 09:13:21 AM
So I figured out that in the new system it isnt really worth it to have a region lord when im already Duchess and ruler.   We are retaking Demyansk and biding time.  When we retake Demyansk Kabrinskia will start raiding again.  Hopefully that will liven things up.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Chenier on April 30, 2012, 01:29:36 PM
I did that long before you told me.  8)

Nah, you just did a little skirmish.

Spark a war! The Zuma are still at "Peace" with Kabrinskia, which is better relations than with all other realms save one.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on April 30, 2012, 02:53:02 PM
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Vellos on April 30, 2012, 03:48:51 PM
Why should we attack the only ally that we have that is supporting us in this war?

Because they're Daimons?
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on April 30, 2012, 03:52:37 PM
Because they're Daimons?

They are at peace with us and Asylon.

Why did Terran/barca/asylon attack the zuma when they had the chance. they ran away instead.  The Zuma is here to stay for now. Get used to it. They are a valid player on this side of the island and cannot be ignored.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Vellos on April 30, 2012, 04:08:10 PM
They are at peace with us and Asylon.

Why did Terran/barca/asylon attack the zuma when they had the chance. they ran away instead.  The Zuma is here to stay for now. Get used to it. They are a valid player on this side of the island and cannot be ignored.

I'm not saying they're not a valid player. I'm saying they're a valid player that you should attack.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Feylonis on April 30, 2012, 04:47:09 PM
No one's ignoring the Zuma. In fact, Asylon tries very hard to make sure relations with Zuma are kept positive.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Indirik on April 30, 2012, 06:49:30 PM
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Jim on April 30, 2012, 08:10:21 PM
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Solari on April 30, 2012, 08:34:13 PM
Because they're Daimons?

Because the 'moot would like you to do their work for them.  Good rule of thumb: discount any helpful advice they give, because it's never given without some clear strategic benefit for them in mind.  ;)
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on April 30, 2012, 08:40:46 PM
Because the 'moot would like you to do their work for them.  Good rule of thumb: discount any helpful advice they give, because it's never given without some clear strategic benefit for them in mind.  ;)

ya, they want us to do their work for them alright. They could have dealt with the zuma long ago but decided to run away instead. The Zuma are not attacking our forces, And I do not want to get them started either.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on April 30, 2012, 09:42:02 PM
So it doesnt feel like a pact with the devil yet does it?
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Telrunya on April 30, 2012, 09:46:14 PM
No agreement with Terran yet ;D
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Dante Silverfire on April 30, 2012, 09:47:22 PM
So it doesnt feel like a pact with the devil yet does it?

Nope, a pact with the devil would be like working with SA, oh wait...nvm.

It is called using one's resources. Also, the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

These things all play in it, I would guess. Then again, I don't really have to guess...
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Chenier on April 30, 2012, 11:40:00 PM
There is a good possibility that this will eventually happen. The Holy Prophet has already foreseen it in a prophecy. Wait til most of the island has joined SA, then the Holy Prophet calls a holy crusade against the daimons.

Destroy the Zuma, and THEN I'll convert. I have no plan on being SA's meatshield.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Chenier on April 30, 2012, 11:40:53 PM
ya, they want us to do their work for them alright. They could have dealt with the zuma long ago but decided to run away instead. The Zuma are not attacking our forces, And I do not want to get them started either.

Yea, but note that the 'moot didn't bring the Zuma into this conflict, Kabrinskia did.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Dante Silverfire on April 30, 2012, 11:44:02 PM
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Vellos on May 01, 2012, 12:07:56 AM
Because the 'moot would like you to do their work for them.  Good rule of thumb: discount any helpful advice they give, because it's never given without some clear strategic benefit for them in mind.  ;)

Actually, interestingly, before Kabrinskia moved back into Demyansk, we were massing on the border to attack the Zuma.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on May 01, 2012, 01:05:50 AM
Actually, interestingly, before Kabrinskia moved back into Demyansk, we were massing on the border to attack the Zuma.

Not according to the scout reports I have. but then you must have been massing in Mistight.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Perth on May 01, 2012, 02:17:42 AM
No kidding.

We're all pumped up going to get an awesome shot at the Zuma, probably will defeat them.

We show up. Looks like Kabrinskians and Daimons are buddy buddy, chillin' in Demyansk together. Nothing we can do about it.


Our goose is cooked though if Kabrinskia and the Daimons truly are allied.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Foundation on May 01, 2012, 04:00:03 AM
This thread is too long to read, too boring to reply to, too specific to troll, and I'm too powerless to lock.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Gustav Kuriga on May 01, 2012, 05:08:55 AM
This thread is too long to read, too boring to reply to, too specific to troll, and I'm too powerless to lock.

+1 Someone please lock this thread...
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Vellos on May 01, 2012, 05:20:03 AM
But... it's still on topic.

We're still talking about the war between Terran and Kabrinskia, and it's not even heated. What's wrong with it?
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Penchant on May 01, 2012, 05:24:01 AM
+1 Someone please lock this thread...
There is no good reason to lock this thread
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Charles on May 01, 2012, 05:28:10 AM
If it is too long to read and too boring to reply to, then do not read or reply. 
Problem solved!
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on May 01, 2012, 06:00:18 AM
If it is too long to read and too boring to reply to, then do not read or reply. 
Problem solved!
Then make it interesting.

And if it is too long to read then that means it is still a viable thread.

And

Kabrinskia should be finishing the TO any day now and then the war will continue
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Feylonis on May 01, 2012, 06:00:56 AM
Instead of trying to pretend that you know how to fight the Zuma, please refer to previous miniwars and see that the Veinsormoot does not have the power to challenge the Zuma. Or you can just listen to the people who actually know what they're saying.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Perth on May 01, 2012, 06:59:43 AM
+1 Someone please lock this thread...

Why should this thread be locked? That is a bit mean hearted, we Terrans and Kabrinskians aren't allowed to have a thread talking about our war like everyone else?

By that logic the 3 or 4 other ongoing threads discussing current wars should be locked as well. The LN v. Fissoa thread, the SA one on the LE v. Summerdale war, "The Current War" thread it Atamara, etc.


Besides, why would it even bother you that it isn't locked in the first place? If you are bored by the topic and you don't want to read it, simply don't. I don't know why it has to be locked for you to not read it.

Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on May 01, 2012, 03:36:24 PM
Stop talking about closing the thread. I like this thread.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on May 01, 2012, 03:54:22 PM
Stop talking about closing the thread. I like this thread.

I agree, this thread is good for us. it helps keep things in perspective and keeps the players friendly even though their characters may hate one another... lol

Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: egamma on May 01, 2012, 05:09:58 PM
I think all the talk about locking the thread should be moved to a new thread. Including this post.

 ;D
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Foundation on May 01, 2012, 08:12:38 PM
Meta posts about posts about locking threads should be in their own thread.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Norrel on May 02, 2012, 12:20:16 AM
Meta posts about posts about locking threads should be in their own thread.
You don't want to go down this path.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: dustole on May 04, 2012, 07:41:39 PM
Haktoo is  on her way to Kabrinskia!   I hope someone does something foolish while she passes through terran
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Indirik on May 04, 2012, 08:47:53 PM
As opposed to someone doing something foolish *in* Kabrinskia, like last time?
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Marlboro on May 05, 2012, 01:30:22 AM
As opposed to someone doing something foolish *in* (rogue), like last time?

Fixed.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: dustole on May 05, 2012, 06:06:15 AM
We hope it is fixed.   Sometimes I gamble big.  This has the potential for disaster...
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Dante Silverfire on May 05, 2012, 07:44:00 AM
We hope it is fixed.   Sometimes I gamble big.  This has the potential for disaster...

So much more fun that way.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: egamma on May 06, 2012, 07:37:55 PM
Am I the only one who thinks her name should be Haktoo Deetoo?
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Indirik on May 06, 2012, 08:10:02 PM
Yeah, this could be bad. And dustole, damn you for dragging me into it! :P
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Marlboro on May 06, 2012, 08:45:01 PM
I am excited for party times.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Chenier on May 06, 2012, 08:45:21 PM
Yeah, this could be bad. And dustole, damn you for dragging me into it! :P

What now...?
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: dustole on May 07, 2012, 12:06:02 AM
I sort of manipulated Brance into becoming Regent of SA.  Now he has to come to GF and meet Haktoo. 
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Chenier on May 07, 2012, 12:14:49 AM
So... Who is going to stab Haktoo as soon as Brance arrives?
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Indirik on May 07, 2012, 01:37:13 AM
Actually, it wasn't Allison, unless you plot deeper than I think. Brance was content to let Allison be Regent. It was the lack of other people Brance thought competent after Allison stepped out. And there were a couple other personal appeals that I don't think Allison could have manipulated.

Personally, I think it would have been fun to have Allison as Regent.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on May 07, 2012, 02:16:53 AM
I ran to split votes, I really wanted Allison to win.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Indirik on May 07, 2012, 02:33:00 AM
...Allison wasn't a candidate...
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: dustole on May 07, 2012, 04:13:19 AM
I think mathurin might have refused to promote me to Regent.  Plus I cant devote a lot of time so I dropped out of the Elders.  Im curious to see what these reforms bring.  I still think I could be Regent one day. 
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Indirik on May 07, 2012, 04:26:20 AM
I think Allison may make it some day. If she toes the line, Mathurin may go for it. The big problem will be that Allison simply refuses to really show respect. That and any time she doesn't get her way, she throws a public tantrum. More than anything, the hissy fits are what earn her the most enemies.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: OFaolain on May 07, 2012, 09:33:29 AM
I ran to split votes, I really wanted Allison to win.

Nobody voted for you anyway. :P

I'm idly curious how Eoghan would have done, if he had announced candidacy before Brance; probably would have been painted as a power play since he'd just won the Consul election, but still I wonder.  Would have had to refrain from voting to maintain credibility, but I'm pretty sure he could have beaten Glaumring and Thomas hands down; not so sure about Medugnatos though, or if Brance would have still run.

Anyway, how's the war going?
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Vellos on May 07, 2012, 03:06:10 PM
Anyway, how's the war going?

Very boringly.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Feylonis on May 07, 2012, 05:47:39 PM
With the Zuma steamrolling again, of course the war's stopped to a screeching halt. Now we will see Terran obliterated, possibly Barca and Asylon. Because it's just so much fun playing with the Zuma.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Telrunya on May 07, 2012, 06:23:40 PM
Don't play in a Realm right next to them then. Problem solved.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Indirik on May 07, 2012, 06:46:03 PM
With the Zuma steamrolling again, of course the war's stopped to a screeching halt. Now we will see Terran obliterated, possibly Barca and Asylon.
That's not a screeching halt. That's progress.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on May 07, 2012, 06:46:47 PM
Pffft Asylon obliterated...lol, we currently have an army larger than both Kabrinskia and Terran combined. Plus we have peaceful and strong relations with the Zuma.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Indirik on May 07, 2012, 06:48:45 PM
Plus we have peaceful and strong relations with the Zuma.
So did Kabrinskia.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on May 07, 2012, 06:49:25 PM
...Allison wasn't a candidate...

I am aware of that, after she pulled out I still ran to muddle up voting since its near impossible to break the Kabrinskian/Astrum voting cabal. The church is essentially yours now anyways.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on May 07, 2012, 06:50:26 PM
So did Kabrinskia.

emphasis on 'did'.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Geronus on May 07, 2012, 06:53:22 PM
I am aware of that, after she pulled out I still ran to muddle up voting since its near impossible to break the Kabrinskian/Astrum voting cabal. The church is essentially yours now anyways.

Huh? There is no such thing as a 'Kabrinskian/Astrum voting cabal'.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Anaris on May 07, 2012, 06:54:32 PM
Huh? There is no such thing as a 'Kabrinskian/Astrum voting cabal'.

Well, of course you would say that! ;D
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Indirik on May 07, 2012, 06:54:42 PM
Yeah,  it's the Iashalur/Corsanctum voting cabal. Get it right.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on May 07, 2012, 06:55:55 PM
Lol I was jabbing your ribs. It was a facetious joke. Basiclly the Astrum/Kabrinskian power bloc then.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Indirik on May 07, 2012, 06:57:28 PM
As far as religion goes, there is no Astrum/Kabrinsia power bloc. The two realms do not work together in pretty much any way. So far, there hasn't even been any military coordination, even. Any such "power bloc" is imaginary.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on May 07, 2012, 06:59:52 PM
Oh Indirik, you are so sensitive. Was just joking.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Indirik on May 07, 2012, 07:08:10 PM
What a muffin head....
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Foundation on May 07, 2012, 07:52:17 PM
Can't figure out if joking or trolling.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on May 07, 2012, 07:56:19 PM
 8)
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on May 07, 2012, 09:41:20 PM
I hear rumors that the Zuma are on the move again.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Perth on May 07, 2012, 09:58:42 PM
I may sound like a broken record, but I can just point out how BORING the Zuma have made this war?

Ever since they showed up the war ground to a stand still! Bah!
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on May 07, 2012, 10:01:36 PM
I may sound like a broken record, but I can just point out how BORING the Zuma have made this war?

Ever since they showed up the war ground to a stand still! Bah!

but if the zuma do attack Terran and Barca as they said they will it will get a lot more interesting.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Arrakis on May 07, 2012, 10:04:46 PM
This war can't be any good as long as Zuma is involved. I think it is bad that they've interfered, and I remember saying that, when the war first started, that it should be an even and dynamic war as long as the Zuma don't get involved. Sadly - they did and it doesn't seem like they've spiced it up.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on May 07, 2012, 10:06:52 PM
This war can't be any good as long as Zuma is involved. I think it is bad that they've interfered, and I remember saying that, when the war first started, that it should be an even and dynamic war as long as the Zuma don't get involved. Sadly - they did and it doesn't seem like they've spiced it up.

a 3 on 1 war is not even or dynamic. you are just upset that the Zuma actually evens the odds.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Arrakis on May 07, 2012, 10:13:21 PM
Considering other terms of the war, like not invading Kabrinskia's regions and considering that Barca is way down south, I'd say it was a perfect situation for a nice little border war and a show of strength, without anyone really having a possibility to lose much.

I am not included in this war at all. I don't play in any of these realms and am very very far away from the conflict.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Feylonis on May 07, 2012, 10:14:40 PM
Actually, they didn't even the odds. They tipped to scales so horrendously the other way.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on May 07, 2012, 10:23:53 PM
The Zuma only sent a single unit of Daemons, so far that is.  I would say that they evened up the odds fairly nicely. Terran, Barca and Asylon could easily take care of Fang Fang. though not sure what Haktoo is bringing with her. She may indeed tip the scales.

Terran should offer terms of their surrender now we would only want 1-2 regions in compensation for the damage Terran has caused to Demyansk.  I am sure that would be reasonable.  Terran should offer up tribute to Kabrinskia and continue to pay Tribute for the foreseeable future. Say 1000 bushels of food every month and 1000 gold as well.

Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Perth on May 07, 2012, 10:41:33 PM
a 3 on 1 war is not even or dynamic. you are just upset that the Zuma actually evens the odds.

No, I'm upset that the war is BORING and that the Zuma have added ZERO fun to the game in the terms of this war so far. If the Zuma DO SOMETHING, at least it would be interesting and fun.


Terran should offer terms of their surrender now we would only want 1-2 regions in compensation for the damage Terran has caused to Demyansk.  I am sure that would be reasonable.  Terran should offer up tribute to Kabrinskia and continue to pay Tribute for the foreseeable future. Say 1000 bushels of food every month and 1000 gold as well.


Wow... you realize Terran isn't even trying to takeover Kabrinskian regions, right? And you want Terran to give away 1-2 regions and pay tributes? That is nuts.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Marlboro on May 07, 2012, 10:54:15 PM
Fight them, then complain when you lose. That's the accepted order of things.

You had a shot after Kabrinskia blew half their army on them while you snickered from across the border.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on May 07, 2012, 11:03:38 PM
No, I'm upset that the war is BORING and that the Zuma have added ZERO fun to the game in the terms of this war so far. If the Zuma DO SOMETHING, at least it would be interesting and fun.



Wow... you realize Terran isn't even trying to takeover Kabrinskian regions, right? And you want Terran to give away 1-2 regions and pay tributes? That is nuts.

You do realize I am only pulling your leg..... lol

I do not have the authority to speak for Kabrinskia as a whole.... at least not yet.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Indirik on May 07, 2012, 11:35:02 PM
I think the zuma make the war pretty funny. Watching the different sides complaining, manipulating, and dancing around the nuclear bomb potential of the Zuma. It may not make the war any better for Terran, but I'm loving it.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Dante Silverfire on May 08, 2012, 12:25:02 AM
Wow... you realize Terran isn't even trying to takeover Kabrinskian regions, right? And you want Terran to give away 1-2 regions and pay tributes? That is nuts.

Wait? You didn't know that Kabrinski is crazy?
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Perth on May 08, 2012, 12:51:51 AM
Fight them, then complain when you lose. That's the accepted order of things.

We would fight them. We just can't fight the Zuma and Kabrinskia together.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Dante Silverfire on May 08, 2012, 01:11:12 AM
We would fight them. We just can't fight the Zuma and Kabrinskia together.

Not true. You can fight the Zuma and Kabrinskia together. You just won't win.

Why fight only when you are assured of victory? Is that cowardice? Or I guess just intelligence in following Sun Tzu.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Perth on May 08, 2012, 01:27:47 AM
Why fight only when you are assured of victory? Is that cowardice? Or I guess just intelligence in following Sun Tzu.

I don't even want assured victory.

When we were headed to take on the Zuma it wasn't assured by any means. We had about equal CS strength, but none of us were really sure how we would fair and how the daimon troops would behave.

I just want a CHANCE of victory. Us going up against the Zuma and Kabrinskians together would be assured defeat.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Chenier on May 08, 2012, 01:46:33 AM
I think the zuma make the war pretty funny. Watching the different sides complaining, manipulating, and dancing around the nuclear bomb potential of the Zuma. It may not make the war any better for Terran, but I'm loving it.

Right, because the "fun" it provides to non-involved observers is worth the stagnation on whole realms' war efforts?

The pleasure of watching other people's misery is not good basis for game policies.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on May 08, 2012, 02:03:49 AM
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on May 08, 2012, 02:09:15 AM
Pffft Asylon obliterated...lol, we currently have an army larger than both Kabrinskia and Terran combined.

sorry I misquoted.....

Aslylon should be able to take on the Zuma all by them selves. Terran, Dhara's, and Barca's help should just be icing on the cake
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Indirik on May 08, 2012, 02:10:44 AM
Good game policy? Maybe not. But then, like we've said many, many times, none of us can change a damn thing about the Zuma. You want that changed, convince Tom. And you're not going to do that with all this belly-aching in this thread. That should be obvious.

I do have to admit that I get almost as much fun reading all the complaints on the forums as I get from reading all the chest pounding, posturing, and bravado on the ruler's channel. I mean, how many times do we have to tell you that we can't do anything about it before you believe us? The stubborn pigheadedness it takes to keep bitching about something to people that can't change it is simply astonishing.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Perth on May 08, 2012, 02:19:37 AM
I do have to admit that I get almost as much fun reading all the complaints on the forums... .... The stubborn pigheadedness it takes to keep bitching about something to people that can't change it is simply astonishing.

That doesn't sound like you're having fun....  :P
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on May 08, 2012, 02:19:53 AM
Good game policy? Maybe not. But then, like we've said many, many times, none of us can change a damn thing about the Zuma. You want that changed, convince Tom. And you're not going to do that with all this belly-aching in this thread. That should be obvious.

I do have to admit that I get almost as much fun reading all the complaints on the forums as I get from reading all the chest pounding, posturing, and bravado on the ruler's channel. I mean, how many times do we have to tell you that we can't do anything about it before you believe us? The stubborn pigheadedness it takes to keep bitching about something to people that can't change it is simply astonishing.

Please don't think I am complaining about the Zuma. I do not like them but I think it funny that they are aiding Kabrinskia. I was worried about the 3 on 1 odds, but now I see that Allison had an ace up her sleeve and it worked. we are getting our regions back into shape and setting militia in peace for now. when it comes time to attack again we will be well prepared and the Zuma will be attacking with us. I think that it is just great.

Ya we lost a quarter of our army in a stupid mistake in communication. But now that we understand the Zuma much more, I doubt that will happen again.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Chenier on May 08, 2012, 02:41:02 AM
sorry I misquoted.....

Aslylon should be able to take on the Zuma all by them selves. Terran, Dhara's, and Barca's help should just be icing on the cake

You only see the 10 000 CS that moved up north.

We only see the rest of the countless and, as far as we know, infinite CS that remains around Nightmarch.


Please don't think I am complaining about the Zuma. I do not like them but I think it funny that they are aiding Kabrinskia. I was worried about the 3 on 1 odds, but now I see that Allison had an ace up her sleeve and it worked. we are getting our regions back into shape and setting militia in peace for now. when it comes time to attack again we will be well prepared and the Zuma will be attacking with us. I think that it is just great.

Ya we lost a quarter of our army in a stupid mistake in communication. But now that we understand the Zuma much more, I doubt that will happen again.

The reason Kabrinskia is losing is 100% Allison's fault. She pissed off all of her southern neighbors. Every one of them. And the only reason we didn't all go completely all-in to wipe Kabrinskia off the map is because we don't feel like having a big war with Astrum right now. Not because we fear Astrum, but just because it's not our objective.

Allison wanted war, and now you are whining that war is what you got. Despite the fact that the ones involved are seriously holding back.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on May 08, 2012, 02:53:37 AM
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Chenier on May 08, 2012, 02:55:17 AM
First of all I was merely quoting what was said in this thread, Katayanna can only see what the scout reports show her.

And Kabrinskia is not losing or winning. and neither are the Terran/Barca/Asylon/Dhara coalition.

Seems pretty clear to me that had the daimons not interfered, things were looking rather bad for Kabrinskia.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on May 08, 2012, 02:57:46 AM
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Graeth on May 08, 2012, 03:00:26 AM
Maybe Allison shouldn't have stolen lands they had agreed to Asylon after we cleaned up the Itau incident.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on May 08, 2012, 03:01:22 AM
Maybe Allison shouldn't have stolen lands they had agreed to Asylon after we cleaned up the Itau incident.

What lands are you talking about.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Perth on May 08, 2012, 03:03:28 AM
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Vellos on May 08, 2012, 03:04:55 AM
If it had been a one on one war the way it should have been, it would have been a fair fight and an interesting war. But no, Dhara, Barca, and Asylon had to get involved.

The way it "should" have been? lol? What are you talking about?

Also, D'Hara didn't get involved. Barca is only involved every few weeks at best. Asylon is purely defensive as of now.

I'm just a bit frustrated that we had the first war against an SA realm that didn't devolve into some kind of crusading fight-to-the-death style gangbang... and it's been stopped by the Zuma. Please look at any comment I've ever made about the Zuma connected with the phrase "chilling effect."
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Graeth on May 08, 2012, 03:06:10 AM
What lands are you talking about.

Mech Alb and Elets
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Graeth on May 08, 2012, 03:07:41 AM
The way it "should" have been? lol? What are you talking about?

Also, D'Hara didn't get involved. Barca is only involved every few weeks at best. Asylon is purely defensive as of now.

I'm just a bit frustrated that we had the first war against an SA realm that didn't devolve into some kind of crusading fight-to-the-death style gangbang... and it's been stopped by the Zuma. Please look at any comment I've ever made about the Zuma connected with the phrase "chilling effect."

Interesting that this takes place after Garret left and this is the first time a SA realm on the west was in any sort of real danger.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on May 08, 2012, 03:30:19 AM
Mech Alb and Elets

You will have to let me in on it. as that must have happened before I arrived in Kabrinskia
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Chenier on May 08, 2012, 03:30:32 AM
If it had been a one on one war the way it should have been, it would have been a fair fight and an interesting war. But no, Dhara, Barca, and Asylon had to get involved.

First of all, Asylon isn't attacking, nor is D'Hara.

Second of all, Allison came to piss us all off. Don't blame D'Hara for being angry at Kabrinskia after Allison came out of her way to piss us off. Same for Terran, the reason there's a war is because she went to piss them off.

The South didn't initiate this war, Allison did.

Interesting that this takes place after Garret left and this is the first time a SA realm on the west was in any sort of real danger.

Danger, because she kept trying to pick wars with us?

Are people seriously considering Kabrinskia a victim here? She WANTED war, with ALL of us. If she's a victim, it's of us not fully playing her game by limiting our involvement, making it harder to get support from realms like Astrum.

But in any case, Allison wanted war with all of the 'moot. Maybe she didn't think Asylon was as close to us as they are, but that would be Allison's own problem, because she was the one who forged these ties when she was being aggressive over the Asylon/Kabrinskia border.

All of us western realms were quite content with peaceful coexistence, despite a few small disagreements. Then Allison came and made it clear she wanted to screw each and every one of us over.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Graeth on May 08, 2012, 03:35:43 AM
You will have to let me in on it. as that must have happened before I arrived in Kabrinskia

I think it is pretty well known that Asylon took in a lot of Caerwyn refugees.  We tried to integrate them into our realm and gave one the position of Judge.  The player tried to keep up the Caerwyn conflict while in Asylon by being an ass to Allison and she decided to take Mech Alb as retribution for insulting letters.  Asylon had other things to worry about at the time and let her have it, assuming that it would come to bite her ass again later on (which it did until the Zuma got involved).  Not sure why we let her take Elets but it happened at the same time.  Was probably mismanagement on our part, concentrating on the more northern regions.   
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Indirik on May 08, 2012, 03:45:18 AM
Mech Alb and Elets

Mech Alb was always intended to go to Kabrinskia. This was acknowledged and agreed to by the ruler of Asylon, and the Asylonian Ambassador as well. (The one before Glaumring, can't remember her name... Zhoesya?) The line for Kabrinskia's western border was Dunnbrook, Mech Calen, and Mech Alb. Any other claims between the two realms were to be worked out between them. Brance informed Glaumring of this agreement, and Glaumring agreed to honor it.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Indirik on May 08, 2012, 03:48:00 AM
If it had been a one on one war the way it should have been, it would have been a fair fight and an interesting war. But no, Dhara, Barca, and Asylon had to get involved.

Anyone who was paying attention to the island for the last, oh, two RL years, would know that picking a fight with any of the Moot realms would get you into war with all three. I warned Allison about this IC before she started the war.

So get over this "fair fight" garbage. Kabrinskia knew what it was getting into before they started the war that both sides wanted. To claim otherwise is criminal negligence or OOC metagaming.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on May 08, 2012, 03:48:36 AM
I think it is pretty well known that Asylon took in a lot of Caerwyn refugees.  We tried to integrate them into our realm and gave one the position of Judge.  The player tried to keep up the Caerwyn conflict while in Asylon by being an ass to Allison and she decided to take Mech Alb as retribution for insulting letters.  Asylon had other things to worry about at the time and let her have it, assuming that it would come to bite her ass again later on (which it did until the Zuma got involved).  Not sure why we let her take Elets but it happened at the same time.  Was probably mismanagement on our part, concentrating on the more northern regions.

So your saying that because Asylon took in many of the refugees from Caerwyn that that gives Asylon claim on the regions that they lost due to war. I think that is a bit presumptuous of Asylon.

I am not sure but did Asylon war Caerwyn? If not then they deserve none of the War Prizes. If they did then it appears to me that they got more than their fair share already.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on May 08, 2012, 03:54:07 AM
Anyone who was paying attention to the island for the last, oh, two RL years, would know that picking a fight with any of the Moot realms would get you into war with all three. I warned Allison about this IC before she started the war.

So get over this "fair fight" garbage. Kabrinskia knew what it was getting into before they started the war that both sides wanted. To claim otherwise is criminal negligence or OOC metagaming.

You know your right, but also I am tired of hearing that bringing in the zuma is not fair.  It is we have an agreement with the Zuma and that agreement is to war Terran.  Let the war commence.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Graeth on May 08, 2012, 03:55:30 AM
So your saying that because Asylon took in many of the refugees from Caerwyn that that gives Asylon claim on the regions that they lost due to war. I think that is a bit presumptuous of Asylon.

I am not sure but did Asylon war Caerwyn? If not then they deserve none of the War Prizes. If they did then it appears to me that they got more than their fair share already.

No, because we had a mutual agreement with Kabrinskia.  Not very presumptuous, Asylon knew Allison was coming in and tried to work out borders beforehand to keep things civil.  I'm almost positive Mech Alb was not agreed to Allison for the very fact that our realms had an extensive RP argument over this fact after our judge insulted her but I didn't save any of these conversations on my computer.  Would be odd for her to claim a region she already had in response to a conflict...
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Chenier on May 08, 2012, 03:58:06 AM
Anyone who was paying attention to the island for the last, oh, two RL years, would know that picking a fight with any of the Moot realms would get you into war with all three. I warned Allison about this IC before she started the war.

So get over this "fair fight" garbage. Kabrinskia knew what it was getting into before they started the war that both sides wanted. To claim otherwise is criminal negligence or OOC metagaming.

Kabrinskia wanted war, but not everyone in the 'moot shared the feeling. However, she did manage to do rather well to convince pretty much everyone that she was a threat with which war was inevitable. Some of us were fine with delaying the inevitable, however.

On the bright side, when she came to provoke D'Hara, it stimulated massive military investments. Walls were completed everywhere they were lacking, bunch of brand new RCs propped up, the decent ones got significantly enlarged, etc. She made us realize that we were exposed and vulnerable. Maybe she should have just jumped on the opportunity instead of trying, in vain, to make us declare war on her. We are *much* more apt to defend ourselves today than we were then.

You know your right, but also I am tired of hearing that bringing in the zuma is not fair.  It is we have an agreement with the Zuma and that agreement is to war Terran.  Let the war commence.

It is not fair because, as far as we know, the Zuma are meant to stay and so no matter how well we do against them, they will never be allowed to be defeated. You basically have an ally of infinite CS, and you are telling us to "suck it up", because of how easily the Zuma go kiss foreigner ass. Seems like any random stranger can come up to the Zuma and make them mobilize their army these days.

As players, we don't like the Zuma. We did not know of them when we set up, they were not part of the reasons why we set up where we did. You could have brought in 30 000 CS of SA armies to support you and we wouldn't have minded. Saying you brought "just 10 000 CS" of Zuma is really dishonest.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: JPierreD on May 08, 2012, 04:04:10 AM
If it had been a one on one war the way it should have been, it would have been a fair fight and an interesting war. But no, Dhara, Barca, and Asylon had to get involved.

Ah, poor Kabrinskia! Has no huge rich and powerful realms protecting from any foreign aggression they did not call on themselves.

I would really like to see you complaining if Astrum and/or the other theocracies came to you aid against a single realm attacking you.

Please, let's try to be a little more impartial.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Marlboro on May 08, 2012, 04:12:38 AM
Pretty simple strategy here. You need to fight a war of attrition with the Zuma since they cannot maintain their CS once they're engaged in earnest. Sure, if they blow up your army you have to go refit, but you'll leave a nice dent in theirs too. Then next time you fight them they're not as strong. And then the third time you blow them apart. They don't have a capital a couple days' travel away, and their leader is probably just as killable as a hero assuming Fang Fang functions in the same vein as Nightfall/Midnight/Darkest Hour/Overlord/Every other Daimon leader in the game.

It's not unwinnable by any stretch of the imagination, you just refuse to even try. Using OOC complaining to beat them looks pretty sad.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Graeth on May 08, 2012, 04:17:37 AM
Pretty simple strategy here. You need to fight a war of attrition with the Zuma since they cannot maintain their CS once they're engaged in earnest. Sure, if they blow up your army you have to go refit, but you'll leave a nice dent in theirs too. Then next time you fight them they're not as strong. And then the third time you blow them apart. They don't have a capital a couple days' travel away, and their leader is probably just as killable as a hero assuming Fang Fang functions in the same vein as Nightfall/Midnight/Darkest Hour/Overlord/Every other Daimon leader in the game.

It's not unwinnable by any stretch of the imagination, you just refuse to even try. Using OOC complaining to beat them looks pretty sad.

Except for the fact that they regenerate CS in the field while other realms must travel to their capital.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on May 08, 2012, 04:21:11 AM
Except for the fact that they regenerate CS in the field while other realms must travel to their capital.

Then hit them with enough CS to take them out to begin with.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Graeth on May 08, 2012, 04:28:23 AM
Look I'm not complaining about the principle of it, nor do I know how their coding works.  The daimons on Bel are meant to be fought, but on Dwilight this is the first time they've stepped into player vs player conflict.  From what our scouts have reported it appeared that they were able to respawn more daimons in rogue territories.  We also know that they can summon what appears to be unlimited amounts of troops from the Volcano with no repercussions as these events have been witnessed since players began exploring the regions. 

It is just disappointing from a OOC perspective that the first time we finally have an interesting SA vs non-SA conflict with multiple realms the GMs step in to stop it.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Dante Silverfire on May 08, 2012, 04:29:41 AM
Except for the fact that they regenerate CS in the field while other realms must travel to their capital.

This is not explicitly correct.

They do have a means of gaining strength, but it is not simply: "Stand around and get stronger". There are legitimate game mechanics which limit the Zuma behind this. All of the research I and others have done into the matter suggest this.

Lack of knowledge of the specifics doesn't eliminate the fact that the Zuma are in fact limited.

---

Another note: Do you really think it is likely that Kabrinskia would start a 3v1 war (which they did) without knowing they would have the support of the Zuma? The whole point from the beginning was that the Zuma would help Kabrinskia in the fight if more than just Terran fought. If you make the assertion that the Zuma are stagnating the war, you are ignoring the entire piece of evidence that this war would never have been started if it weren't for the Zuma support.

Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Gustav Kuriga on May 08, 2012, 04:32:28 AM
Also, I would like to point out that everyone who is complaining about the "unlimited troops" of the Zuma would like to look and see that they are only using one unit, that was already outside of Zuma lands, in this war. That seems pretty limited to me...
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Graeth on May 08, 2012, 04:34:58 AM
Also, I would like to point out that everyone who is complaining about the "unlimited troops" of the Zuma would like to look and see that they are only using one unit, that was already outside of Zuma lands, in this war. That seems pretty limited to me...

You need more scouts.  Haktoo and Flame are already on the way, each controlling more troops.  For Asylon it isn't simply a matter of just fighting the Zuma.  We were the first realm to enter a peaceful relations with them and much of our RP has been based on maintaining relations with them.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Anaris on May 08, 2012, 04:36:03 AM
You need more scouts.  Haktoo and Flame are already on the way, each controlling more troops.  For Asylon it isn't simply a matter of just fighting the Zuma.  We were the first realm to enter a peaceful relations with them and much of our RP has been based on maintaining relations with them.

I hope you'll forgive an ignorant Lurian for butting in, but I though I'd heard that Haktoo was there for some sort of diplomatic powwow with the Astroists?
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Dante Silverfire on May 08, 2012, 04:37:14 AM
  We also know that they can summon what appears to be unlimited amounts of troops from the Volcano with no repercussions as these events have been witnessed since players began exploring the regions. 

I'd also like to point out that this statement lacks any sort of evidence to back up the "with no repercussions".

Imagine an army besieging a capital and the capitol has 5k cs defenders in it. Then all of a sudden when the turn comes around there are 10k cs worth of defenders. This could be seen as "summoning troops" and there are no apparent repercussions. However, we all know there are legitimate game mechanics behind this. We don't need to actually know how many troops are in a human realm recruitment center to know they have a limit, and neither do we need to know the exact same for the Zuma. They are limited and they have specific things they require.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on May 08, 2012, 04:37:28 AM
One unit amongst many controlled by one gm... Yeah so limited.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Dante Silverfire on May 08, 2012, 04:38:37 AM
One unit amongst many controlled by one gm... Yeah so limited.

Strong and limited is different from strong and unlimited. Saying they are the same is misrepresentation.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Graeth on May 08, 2012, 04:40:28 AM
I hope you'll forgive an ignorant Lurian for butting in, but I though I'd heard that Haktoo was there for some sort of diplomatic powwow with the Astroists?

Maybe, maybe not...no way for us to know this IC when they don't reciprocate RP and keep us in the dark.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Graeth on May 08, 2012, 04:48:12 AM
I'd also like to point out that this statement lacks any sort of evidence to back up the "with no repercussions".

Imagine an army besieging a capital and the capitol has 5k cs defenders in it. Then all of a sudden when the turn comes around there are 10k cs worth of defenders. This could be seen as "summoning troops" and there are no apparent repercussions. However, we all know there are legitimate game mechanics behind this. We don't need to actually know how many troops are in a human realm recruitment center to know they have a limit, and neither do we need to know the exact same for the Zuma. They are limited and they have specific things they require.

True, they seem to be limited by troop leaders, which appear to pop up and disappear rather frequently.  Are these leaders summoned and controlled by 1 GM?  If this is the case then they do look rather unlimited. 

Not looking to whine.  From an IC perspective the Zuma seem like godmode.  I think it is rather good that western dwilight players are finally getting around to thinking about a conflict of the Zuma seriously.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Penchant on May 08, 2012, 04:50:49 AM
I hope you'll forgive an ignorant Lurian for butting in, but I though I'd heard that Haktoo was there for some sort of diplomatic powwow with the Astroists?
I beleive Haktoo is meeting with Brance in Golden Farrow on religious matters.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Dante Silverfire on May 08, 2012, 05:05:35 AM
I beleive Haktoo is meeting with Brance in Golden Farrow on religious matters.

So that's what they're telling people these days....

Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Perth on May 08, 2012, 05:12:28 AM
but also I am tired of hearing that bringing in the zuma is not fair.

I'm not complaining that it isn't fair (even though it is), I'm just complaining that it is boring as crap.

The Zuma have (so far) turned an at first exciting and engaging human v. human war into a sit and wait human v. NPC war. It was fun even when Kabrinskia was looting through Terran. It was real action for once, and action we could potentially counter. No it is sit and wait and do nothing. And if the Zuma go offensive against us, it will be a slaughter vs. an over powered and single-person controlled unit. It's just simply not fun.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on May 08, 2012, 05:19:27 AM
I am a bit annoyed that so far Asylons contacts/communications with the Zuma have been
Ignored for weeks now. And now here they are joining in on a war.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Perth on May 08, 2012, 05:23:22 AM
I am a bit annoyed that so far Asylons contacts/communications with the Zuma have been
Ignored for weeks now. And now here they are joining in on a war.

Same for Terran.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on May 08, 2012, 05:27:48 AM
Honestly who is the Zuma gm and does he have a character human in Dwilight? Because seriously it feels like the Zuma gm massively hates everyone except for a few players , like how the hell does Malus of Solaria know the Zuma Gm is busy in real life with me thinking some players know and deal with him ooc... Who is the zuma gm, and why do some players know him and some of us dont?




Out-of-Character from Malus Solari   (1 hour, 22 minutes ago)
The Zuma GM is very busy with RL stuff.  Not everything is a personal slight.
Aaron Champion

  [reply to sender] | [ignore] | [userdetails] | [give medal:   ]
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Perth on May 08, 2012, 05:29:31 AM
Honestly who is the Zuma gm and does he have a character human in Dwilight? Because seriously it feels like the Zuma gm massively hates everyone except for a few players , like how the hell does Malus of Solaria know the Zuma Gm is busy in real life with me thinking some players know and deal with him ooc... Who is the zuma gm, and why do some players know him and some of us dont?

I see no reason stuff like this shouldn't be public knowledge; it would help a lot with impartiality, complaints, etc. But I don't make the rules, I guess.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on May 08, 2012, 05:31:07 AM
Out-of-Character from Malus Solari   (1 hour, 22 minutes ago)
The Zuma GM is very busy with RL stuff.  Not everything is a personal slight.
Aaron Champion

  ----- wtf how does he know the gm is busy and I dont?
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Dante Silverfire on May 08, 2012, 05:31:54 AM
I see no reason stuff like this shouldn't be public knowledge; it would help a lot with impartiality, complaints, etc. But I don't make the rules, I guess.

You're right then we could actually complain and be rude to someone we actually know and can ruin their game on their other characters just to get back at them?

That could possibly be one reason.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on May 08, 2012, 05:34:41 AM
If the GM plays on Dwilight, they should not have a character here AT ALL. Is the Zuma gm's human character in Kabrinskia?
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Marlboro on May 08, 2012, 05:35:58 AM
Guys... I'm the Zuma Gm... Its awesome...

Mystery solved!
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Graeth on May 08, 2012, 05:36:59 AM
Mystery solved!

Hahaha
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on May 08, 2012, 05:37:55 AM
 
Mystery solved!

 8) damn you meddling kids!
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Graeth on May 08, 2012, 05:43:50 AM
People's imaginations are going to run wild when the Zuma make the biggest move they've ever done and then go silent.  Before people could ignore the Zuma by just staying away from their lands.  Now Zuma are meddling around in player vs player conflicts.  Makes players antsy.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Dante Silverfire on May 08, 2012, 05:45:23 AM
If the GM plays on Dwilight, they should not have a character here AT ALL. Is the Zuma gm's human character in Kabrinskia?

I have no idea at all. But, I do know that revealing their identity during the fact is a bad idea for the reasons I mentioned above. Although I'd bet they don't have a character within at least half the length of Dwilight of the Zuma right now, or not a character on Dwilight at all.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on May 08, 2012, 05:50:13 AM
So a character in an Astroist realm just not Kabrinskia. So you know but you aren't wiling to say that makes two so far... Malus and Dante, who else knows the Zuma gm's Dwilight human character?
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Perth on May 08, 2012, 05:52:58 AM
You're right then we could actually complain and be rude to someone we actually know and can ruin their game on their other characters just to get back at them?

That could possibly be one reason.

God forbid such an influential and powerful player be subject to the same pressures and realities as the rest of us.

Besides, no one says they have to come on the forums and listen to us belly-achers.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on May 08, 2012, 05:57:33 AM
A GM on dwilight should not have a player human character on dwilight at all.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Graeth on May 08, 2012, 05:58:19 AM
A moot point by now.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Dante Silverfire on May 08, 2012, 05:58:28 AM
God forbid such an influential and powerful player be subject to the same pressures and realities as the rest of us.

Besides, no one says they have to come on the forums and listen to us belly-achers.

That's nothing at all what I'm saying.

People could abuse their other characters IC for the OOC reasons of their hate for the Zuma. People could send OOC messages to that player's character asking why the Zuma did this, why the Zuma does that. I believe it has nothing to do with whether they read the stuff on the forum.

I have no clue who the Zuma GM is, (although Malus knowing narrows down the field a bit), but I just think they have a right to their privacy while they contribute extra time to add an element to the game that the game maker, at the very minimum, wants to have added to the game.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on May 08, 2012, 06:06:39 AM
I really used to enjoy BM like no other game... This Zuma [email protected]#$ is killing my love for this game. Its like there is someone gaming the system and some people know it and the rest of us should just "shut up" in the words of Malus and get screwed by a group of players who know the secret rules of the game and the right connections.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: dustole on May 08, 2012, 06:08:29 AM
you have to approach the Zuma in the proper manner.    You also have to arrange meetings it isnt good to just impose yourself on them.  I arranged for a noble to be in Haktoos court so Kabrinskia could remain in contact with the zuma this whole time.  They dont exchange letters.  the zuma arent easy to figure out.   Also I knew the zuma gm was busy because he said so.  He also said it would take a while to get to GF.  I dont think the gm has a character on Dwilight.  Also this whole thing evoled slowly.  I told Glaumring the zuma would get involved back before Asylon got into the war.  Either he forgot or ignored it.   I saw an Rp from someones ambassador to the Zuma and it was bad.  When this is all over I will tell you how I learned to talk to the Zuma.  I pissed Haktoo off a few times but learned a lot in the process.  You cant just show up and expect them to listen to you.  How is it that youve lived this close to the Zuma for so long and know so little about them?  Fostering a discussion/debate/friendship with the zuma takes a long time.  Ive been at it for months
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Perth on May 08, 2012, 06:10:10 AM
That's nothing at all what I'm saying.

People could abuse their other characters IC for the OOC reasons of their hate for the Zuma. People could send OOC messages to that player's character asking why the Zuma did this, why the Zuma does that. I believe it has nothing to do with whether they read the stuff on the forum.

I have no clue who the Zuma GM is, (although Malus knowing narrows down the field a bit), but I just think they have a right to their privacy while they contribute extra time to add an element to the game that the game maker, at the very minimum, wants to have added to the game.

Again though, are we not all susceptible to this?
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on May 08, 2012, 06:16:34 AM
I have been king a short time as of late, prior to that the Zuma stayed out of our business and Asylon focused on our issues with Caerwyn. We traded food and thats it we ignored them and then all of a sudden the Zuma started being front and center, bellicose and rude, and ignoring communications even when ambassadors were sent.

The Zuma used to come to Asylon and help fight monsters, we spoke often enough and made peace now its a 360 in everything who they were.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Velax on May 08, 2012, 06:18:13 AM
If they made a 360, wouldn't they end up facing the same direction?
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Graeth on May 08, 2012, 06:40:54 AM
you have to approach the Zuma in the proper manner.    You also have to arrange meetings it isnt good to just impose yourself on them.  I arranged for a noble to be in Haktoos court so Kabrinskia could remain in contact with the zuma this whole time.  They dont exchange letters.  the zuma arent easy to figure out.   Also I knew the zuma gm was busy because he said so.  He also said it would take a while to get to GF.  I dont think the gm has a character on Dwilight.  Also this whole thing evoled slowly.  I told Glaumring the zuma would get involved back before Asylon got into the war.  Either he forgot or ignored it.   I saw an Rp from someones ambassador to the Zuma and it was bad.  When this is all over I will tell you how I learned to talk to the Zuma.  I pissed Haktoo off a few times but learned a lot in the process.  You cant just show up and expect them to listen to you.  How is it that youve lived this close to the Zuma for so long and know so little about them?  Fostering a discussion/debate/friendship with the zuma takes a long time.  Ive been at it for months

Everyone's a critic
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Dante Silverfire on May 08, 2012, 06:43:24 AM
Again though, are we not all susceptible to this?

Fair enough. But the game maker feels that his GM's deserve extra protections for extra additions to the game. That's his decision to make, not mine, and I don't see it as unreasonable.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Perth on May 08, 2012, 06:45:37 AM
Fair enough. But the game maker feels that his GM's deserve extra protections for extra additions to the game. That's his decision to make, not mine, and I don't see it as unreasonable.

I understand; and as I said also it obviously isn't up to me, either.

'Was just saying I, personally, thought it would be reasonable. *shrug*
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Velax on May 08, 2012, 06:49:15 AM
'Was just saying I, personally, thought it would be reasonable. *shrug*

Seriously? How many other players do you know with 40-page hate threads dedicated to them? If he/she/it wants to remain anonymous, more power to them.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on May 08, 2012, 06:53:09 AM
The Zuma are here to stay and the GM's identity is a well kept secret for good reason.

So stop complaining about it and move on.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Perth on May 08, 2012, 06:54:19 AM
Seriously? How many other players do you know with 40-page hate threads dedicated to them? If he/she/it wants to remain anonymous, more power to them.


Yeah, hence I think it's a bad idea to give one player control over, not only his own personal realm, but multiple thousands of CS to go with it. Because, well, it's a bad idea and it will never result in fair play for the other players.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Perth on May 08, 2012, 06:55:26 AM
The Zuma are here to stay and the GM's identity is a well kept secret for good reason.

So stop complaining about it and move on.

We tried, once.

We've been leaving them alone since the last Zuma conflict.

Now they're back, mucking crap up and ruining good wars.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on May 08, 2012, 06:56:59 AM
We tried, once.

We've been leaving them alone since the last Zuma conflict.

Now they're back, mucking crap up and ruining good wars.
maybe for you and those that are on the wrong side of the Zuma, but for those that are on the right side it is not so bad.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Velax on May 08, 2012, 07:04:37 AM
We've been leaving them alone since the last Zuma conflict.

Maybe that's what you did wrong. Do you think Tom gave control of the Zuma to the GM so he could play his own little single player game of BM? Or do you think he gave the GM control so he could contribute something to Dwilight? If only one realm of those surrounding Zuma territory takes the time to properly interact with the Zuma and the rest ignore them, then what contribution to Dwilight do you think the Zuma will make, if not to support that realm in some way?
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Dante Silverfire on May 08, 2012, 07:09:58 AM
Maybe that's what you did wrong. Do you think Tom gave control of the Zuma to the GM so he could play his own little single player game of BM? Or do you think he gave the GM control so he could contribute something to Dwilight? If only one realm of those surrounding Zuma territory takes the time to properly interact with the Zuma and the rest ignore them, then what contribution to Dwilight do you think the Zuma will make, if not to support that realm in some way?

Kill that realm if they piss off the Zuma enough. But that's another story.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Perth on May 08, 2012, 07:14:04 AM
maybe for you and those that are on the wrong side of the Zuma, but for those that are on the right side it is not so bad.

Maybe that's what you did wrong. Do you think Tom gave control of the Zuma to the GM so he could play his own little single player game of BM? Or do you think he gave the GM control so he could contribute something to Dwilight? If only one realm of those surrounding Zuma territory takes the time to properly interact with the Zuma and the rest ignore them, then what contribution to Dwilight do you think the Zuma will make, if not to support that realm in some way?


Exactly.

It's just not fun. It is just a game of "suck up to this one player." and then you have multiple, if not unlimited, thousands of CS seemingly at your disposal. That isn't dynamic, that isn't what BM should be about, it isn't even strategic or political, it's just suck up to a GM and what the GM wants for the island.

At least not for Dwilight. We have Beluaterra for that, why have two islands for that? And even Beluaterra at least has a stated goal: the Daimons want to destroy humanity and the island, these guys are just a random enigma whose attitude and desires seem to change from week to week. Hell, you can't even get them to talk to you half the time. And when you're upset that they won't everyone just says "you aren't doing it right, you have too dance a little jig and turn around three times and THEN try to talk to them." It's just silliness and its arbitrary and has absolutely no consistent RP basis.

Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on May 08, 2012, 07:26:45 AM

Exactly.

It's just not fun. It is just a game of "suck up to this one player." and then you have multiple, if not unlimited, thousands of CS seemingly at your disposal. That isn't dynamic, that isn't what BM should be about, it isn't even strategic or political, it's just suck up to a GM and what the GM wants for the island.

At least not for Dwilight. We have Beluaterra for that, why have two islands for that? And even Beluaterra at least has a stated goal: the Daimons want to destroy humanity and the island, these guys are just a random enigma whose attitude and desires seem to change from week to week. Hell, you can't even get them to talk to you half the time. And when you're upset that they won't everyone just says "you aren't doing it right, you have too dance a little jig and turn around three times and THEN try to talk to them." It's just silliness and its arbitrary and has absolutely no consistent RP basis.

how is that different from dealing with a king or a dictator in BM. your only dealing with a single person the only difference is that a human character has many nobles to carry out his/her threats or orders.

Treat the zuma like you would any other realm. you just have to talk to them on their terms.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Perth on May 08, 2012, 07:34:27 AM
how is that different from dealing with a king or a dictator in BM. your only dealing with a single person the only difference is that a human character has many nobles to carry out his/her threats or orders.

Treat the zuma like you would any other realm. you just have to talk to them on their terms.

Except the Zuma have zero internal conflicts, zero room for error in fighting wars, single units with 10,000 CS, no chance for a change of rulership, no religion, no political division, and complete unity of their forces and can declare war willy nilly with practically zero political ramifications.

These are major differences from a human realm that majorly alter the game.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on May 08, 2012, 08:00:26 AM
Except the Zuma have zero internal conflicts, zero room for error in fighting wars, single units with 10,000 CS, no chance for a change of rulership, no religion, no political division, and complete unity of their forces and can declare war willy nilly with practically zero political ramifications.

These are major differences from a human realm that majorly alter the game.

Internal conflicts - I agree here
single units of 10,000 CS - yes they do but they have fewer overall units so that limits their effectiveness. Only fear of them keeps them strong.
rulership change - They have to make tom happy or they can lose their position.
Political ramifications - that depends if the realms that surround them are able to get along enough to fight them all at once if they get out of line............... Oh wait. the Moot could do just that. If they coordinated their attacks.  I think the Zuma GM knows this and cannot afford to let you learn not to fear them.

major differences - Yes they are different, are they unbeatable..... no.  Does fear of them make them even more powerful........ YES.

Does the MOOT fear the Zuma.... Yes, I think that is their greatest weakness.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Perth on May 08, 2012, 08:09:23 AM
Does the MOOT fear the Zuma.... Yes, I think that is their greatest weakness.

Obviously... you've never fought them.

It is unreal.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on May 08, 2012, 08:13:04 AM
Obviously... you've never fought them.

It is unreal.

I have on BT long ago, well not katayanna anyway.

Though I did not like being on the receiving end.  We did beat them back But there were just too many of them unlike Dwilight where there are a relatively few Zuma units/characters running around.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Marlboro on May 08, 2012, 08:24:08 AM
I have on BT long ago, well not katayanna anyway.

Though I did not like being on the receiving end.  We did beat them back But there were just too many of them unlike Dwilight where there are a relatively few Zuma units/characters running around.

Yeah, if Fang Fang was on BT Thalmarkin would already be cleaning Daimon-guts out from between the treads of their boots, and they're not a real big realm.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on May 08, 2012, 08:31:08 AM
Yeah, if Fang Fang was on BT Thalmarkin would already be cleaning Daimon-guts out from between the treads of their boots, and they're not a real big realm.

But they do have a lot of experience among their ranks.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Sypher on May 08, 2012, 08:35:39 AM
My Dwilight Char is far from the Zuma but if my BT character was on Dwilight he'd be calling for the Zuma to be exterminated. They are too big of a risk to humanity to let live. He would have been an ardent supporter of the Manifest Path... too bad its gone.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on May 08, 2012, 08:41:06 AM
My Dwilight Char is far from the Zuma but if my BT character was on Dwilight he'd be calling for the Zuma to be exterminated. They are too big of a risk to humanity to let live. He would have been an ardent supporter of the Manifest Path... too bad its gone.

lol I bet he would.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Sypher on May 08, 2012, 08:51:46 AM
lol I bet he would.

:)

The Zuma aren't going to kill themselves. Time to get to business and take those lands that ought to rightfully be ruled by humans, according to our birthright.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on May 08, 2012, 08:57:31 AM
:)

The Zuma aren't going to kill themselves. Time to get to business and take those lands that ought to rightfully be ruled by humans, according to our birthright.

LOL you have already made them a political force on Dwilight. One that those that are willing to take the risks will wish to use to their own ambitions and in some cases manipulation. 
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Sypher on May 08, 2012, 09:14:06 AM
LOL you have already made them a political force on Dwilight. One that those that are willing to take the risks will wish to use to their own ambitions and in some cases manipulation.

The game needs more people willing to gamble big and shake things up. Some parts of the game are far too stagnant because the rulers and by extension the realm are unwilling to take risks. So, I am looking forward to reading more about this conflict vicariously through the forum. :)
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on May 08, 2012, 09:39:42 AM
The game needs more people willing to gamble big and shake things up. Some parts of the game are far too stagnant because the rulers and by extension the realm are unwilling to take risks. So, I am looking forward to reading more about this conflict vicariously through the forum. :)

You are welcome to do just that or you can travel to Kabrinskia and join in....
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: JPierreD on May 08, 2012, 10:15:47 AM
I have on BT long ago, well not katayanna anyway.

Though I did not like being on the receiving end.  We did beat them back But there were just too many of them unlike Dwilight where there are a relatively few Zuma units/characters running around.

Comparing the Zuma to previous BT invasions makes absolutely no sense. They are completely different. The fact is that you have never fought the Zuma (nor would probably ever do it) and you are still talking as if others should do it, just because the Zuma are on your side, benefiting you.

That said, it makes all sense that the Zuma GM's identity remains anonymous, for obvious reasons. And would be in no way surprised if Solari knew his identity, as he is part of the Dev team. Why that player may know and you do not? Dedicating his time and effort for free to the game would seem like a pretty good reason in my book. Demanding that privilege is quite arrogant and disrespectful. Be nicer, ask politely, at the very least.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Zuma GM on May 08, 2012, 10:32:20 AM
Out-of-Character from Malus Solari   (1 hour, 22 minutes ago)
The Zuma GM is very busy with RL stuff.  Not everything is a personal slight.
Aaron Champion

  ----- wtf how does he know the gm is busy and I dont?

Please bear with me, there are a number of messages I am going to reply to. So please give me a little time before responding to the individual responses. Thanks.
The Zuma do occasionally have in game issues (such as bugs) that need to be dealt with. This means there needs to be conversation with and amongst the developers. Due to this, some people are aware of who I am. As for why Solari knew I was busy and you didn't, the same reason Allison did and you didn't, I was in communications with them at the time and wanted to be clear they were not being ignored if I didn't respond for a short while.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Zuma GM on May 08, 2012, 10:36:30 AM
I'm not complaining that it isn't fair (even though it is), I'm just complaining that it is boring as crap.

The Zuma have (so far) turned an at first exciting and engaging human v. human war into a sit and wait human v. NPC war. It was fun even when Kabrinskia was looting through Terran. It was real action for once, and action we could potentially counter. No it is sit and wait and do nothing. And if the Zuma go offensive against us, it will be a slaughter vs. an over powered and single-person controlled unit. It's just simply not fun.

If all the players actually shared all of their information, you would know why Fang Fang is where he is. The ruler of Asylon was told this 12 days ago, yet is on the forums complaining about being ignored. Unless I have missed a message since then, that was the last communication I had from him.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Zuma GM on May 08, 2012, 10:45:31 AM
Same for Terran.

I try to respond to anyone that interacts with the Zuma. I cannot recall anyone from Terran actually trying to communicate recently. The only interaction I can recall is when I sent Vellos a message a few days ago stating exactly what Haktoo is doing at this time. Yet I see someone on here stating as fact that Haktoo and Flame have joined together on the borders to start an attack. Flame has been in that region for months, Haktoo is there because of things in game that others are aware of. If you are going to speculate on the forums, please make that clear rather than stating things as if they are fact which just winds up other people who assume you are actually telling the truth.
There seems to be a lot of OOC complaining about things that people are assuming is happening rather than keeping things in game and dealing with what is actually happening.
If you feel you're now being ignored, perhaps there shouldn't have been the OOC witch hunt on Garret which ended up making him leave the game. You might not have liked him in game, but he did a lot more for all of the human realms on Dwilight than any of you were prepared to consider. Now you deal directly, and that's not the same as doing it through a human.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Zuma GM on May 08, 2012, 10:50:37 AM
I have been king a short time as of late, prior to that the Zuma stayed out of our business and Asylon focused on our issues with Caerwyn. We traded food and thats it we ignored them and then all of a sudden the Zuma started being front and center, bellicose and rude, and ignoring communications even when ambassadors were sent.

The Zuma used to come to Asylon and help fight monsters, we spoke often enough and made peace now its a 360 in everything who they were.

The Zuma are still at peace with Asylon. Asylon have not requested assistance with monsters in a very long time. The ambassadors that have come here have all been dealt with. Please provide examples of being front and center, bellicose and rude and ignored communications as I am not aware of this.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Zuma GM on May 08, 2012, 10:53:41 AM
You know your right, but also I am tired of hearing that bringing in the zuma is not fair.  It is we have an agreement with the Zuma and that agreement is to war Terran.  Let the war commence.

People not directly involved in the situations read things on the forums and take that as fact. Please be careful with what you state if you are not fully informed.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Perth on May 08, 2012, 11:03:43 AM
I try to respond to anyone that interacts with the Zuma. I cannot recall anyone from Terran actually trying to communicate recently. The only interaction I can recall is when I sent Vellos a message a few days ago stating exactly what Haktoo is doing at this time.

You are right. It was communicated when Haktoo decided to "ask" to pass through Terran. However, what I was told, was that when it was inquired what the hell the daimons were up to intervening in the war and supporting Kabrinskia, we were ignored. To be clear, that is what I was told.


If you feel you're now being ignored, perhaps there shouldn't have been the OOC witch hunt on Garret which ended up making him leave the game.

I thought he left for RL reasons?


You might not have liked him in game, but he did a lot more for all of the human realms on Dwilight than any of you were prepared to consider.

Cryptic hints at things the majority of us are just supposed to accept that we "just don't understand" and "can't understand" or "don't know about because we don't do 'it' right" are one the most annoying things about the Zuma. Is their purpose to enhance the game for everyone, or for the lucky few who get to be a part of their secret RP's? If it is, perhaps this should be stated, because it would clear a lot of things up.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Bjarnson on May 08, 2012, 11:38:19 AM
I have kept myself away from posting on the forum since the start of this conflict, mainly because its gives me a bad taste in my mouth as things seem to almost tip over into ooc-drama. But I feel myself forced to post here now.

I am a player who always have been intrigued by the Zuma, I think they add spice and flavor to the game. And I find it funny that people always tend to get highly annoyed whenever they are involved in anything.

And beeing an Asylon player, I am a bit puzzled that Haktoo suddenly got all buddy-buddy with Kabrinskia, but maybe im just jelaous, since I and others of Asylon really put some hard work into getting friendly with the Zuma, But its clear to me now that it was a waste of time befriending Garret, who I enjoyed exhanging letters with, both IC-wise and OOC-wise, and the fact that he and I worked for a mutual beficial goal, peaceful and good relations on the common border between Asylon and the Zuma, we sold food, we did our best to apprehend Terrance(but later I was informed by Haktoo to let it be, he was no longer important) and most of all, we left the Zuma in peace, doing our best to not annoy or disturb them, just as we where told to do... So by playing by their rules we kinda lost it...
(bah, now i am starting to sound bitter so enough about my hurt feelings  ;).)



Adressing some comments previous in the thread, dont remember who said it, and I am not combing the thread backwards to quote.


1. Asylon isnt really ganging up on Kabrinskia, she have been poking us and provoking us with demands and threats for as long as that nation has existed, we have played nice as we was more focused on getting stability in our nation that doubled or trippled over just a few days/weeks. Eventually we had enough when she was threatning us that she would set the Zuma on us if we got involved in the war.

We joined the war in a defensive manner, NO Asylonian troops have EVER crossed the border into hostile territory, we have ONLY defended Terran lands in Terran.
So Yes, atleast I knew that there was a small chance for the Zuma to join in, but I found it HIGHLY UNLIKLEY, since I thought our friendship with them was worth more, guess I was wrong.


2. "Why dont you invade the Zuma"/"Dont whine, just fight them!"
Well, first off, I have devouted alot of time to get friendly with them, and to guide Asylon and many of our anti-zuma nobles to accept our neighbours and to avoid conflict, since I was/is a Zuma fanboy OOC-wise.
Plus, I have scout reports from our southern border where we can see around 30 000 - 38 000 CS of Zuma forces, and that is NOT counting Fang Fang, so even if i was out for blood, I would not send Asylonian forces against overwhelming odds.



Lastly I think we are at very interesting times in the game atm, and I cant wait to see how this will play out... I already have 2-3 potential paths my character will take from this conflict, and I pray to the Gods that I dont have to take either of the last two of thoose, for there is no comming back if you take the path of a zealot...
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Anaris on May 08, 2012, 01:29:07 PM
God forbid such an influential and powerful player be subject to the same pressures and realities as the rest of us.

Besides, no one says they have to come on the forums and listen to us belly-achers.

If you haven't noticed, 95% of the flames in the pages and pages of Zuma-hate are either based on false information, due to people like those in this thread taking assumptions as fact, or boil down to, "I don't like the fact that the Zuma exist as a force on Dwilight at all."

Do you really think it's right to subject a player to direct attacks on all their characters and OOC attacks on themselves for stuff people basically made up, and for simply being the person in a job created by Tom to be the way it is?
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Chenier on May 08, 2012, 01:53:48 PM
Also, I would like to point out that everyone who is complaining about the "unlimited troops" of the Zuma would like to look and see that they are only using one unit, that was already outside of Zuma lands, in this war. That seems pretty limited to me...

Not only is this wrong, but that's also because they weren't attacked yet.

Do you honestly think that they won't bring the rest of their might once attacked? Because in our experience, the Zuma are very trigger-happy whenever it comes to acting against the 'moot. If they believed some random adventurer over their own ambassador and all of us over an extremely obvious forgery and went on raging against us for it, then why should we not believe they want us to attack them just so that they can launch a full invasion?
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Solari on May 08, 2012, 02:09:13 PM
Food for thought:

The Zuma are played by a person.  People often have inscrutable motives for the things they do.  Sometimes, others discern those motives, be it through communication or good detective work.  There are no tricks involved, preferential treatment, or axes to grind.  Some of you have convinced yourselves of the impossible because the person that plays the Zuma is too decent to wade into this stuff.  If they did, no doubt someone would comb through their posts and try to discern their identity by their writing style.  Who's the one being [email protected]#$ on and held accountable to a different standard of conduct, again?
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: dustole on May 08, 2012, 02:39:36 PM

And beeing an Asylon player, I am a bit puzzled that Haktoo suddenly got all buddy-buddy with Kabrinskia, but maybe im just jelaous, since I and others of Asylon really put some hard work into getting friendly with the Zuma, But its clear to me now that it was a waste of time befriending Garret, who I enjoyed exhanging letters with, both IC-wise and OOC-wise, and the fact that he and I worked for a mutual beficial goal, peaceful and good relations on the common border between Asylon and the Zuma, we sold food, we did our best to apprehend Terrance(but later I was informed by Haktoo to let it be, he was no longer important) and most of all, we left the Zuma in peace, doing our best to not annoy or disturb them, just as we where told to do... So by playing by their rules we kinda lost it...
(bah, now i am starting to sound bitter so enough about my hurt feelings  ;).)


1. Asylon isnt really ganging up on Kabrinskia, she have been poking us and provoking us with demands and threats for as long as that nation has existed, we have played nice as we was more focused on getting stability in our nation that doubled or trippled over just a few days/weeks. Eventually we had enough when she was threatning us that she would set the Zuma on us if we got involved in the war.


Haktoo all of a sudden got buddy buddy with Kabrinskia?  That "buddy buddy"  aspect took months... really,  months to accomplish.  This isn't something that happened overnight.  It was made quite clear to the rulers of Barca, Asylon, Terran and D'hara that this was happening.  They all knew I was making frequent trips to the Zuma yet you all still did nothing to communicate effectively with the Zuma.

Asylon dealt with Garret.  That was your own mistake.  If you wanted to be peaceful with the Zuma you should have dealt directly with them.  Garret had his own agenda.  I am willing to bet that he shared very little of his conversations with Asylon to the Zuma.  Also, I never threatened anyone with the Zuma.  To say such a thing is a blatant lie.  I told Glaumring that if the war degraded and it didn't stay as Terran vs Kabrinskia then the Zuma would get involved.  I was in Zuma land talking to Haktoo about Kabrinskia declaring war on Terran to teach them a lesson when Terran declared war on Kabrinskia.  I had already worked out the back up plan with them in case I was attacked by more than one realm.  The attack was supposed to come in the spring.  That is why I warned Asylon to stay out of the war.  No threats were made.  I even said OOC from the beginning when Barca declared war that the Zuma would be involved.  Nobles other than Kabrinskians knew about the Zuma's involvement weeks before they ever arrived in Kabrinskian lands.   I even asked Terran to name their terms for peace.  I told them that the Zuma were coming and that I didn't want this war to degrade further.   I made no demands or threats I just asked for the terms they wanted for peace.   

The response I got weeks later was that Hireshmont will give me peace for 1 month if I declare war on the Zuma.  How stupid is that...  "Attack your protectors and we will leave you alone for 1 month"   Dumb Dumb Dumb.  I know that offer wasn't really meant to be serious, but it seemed like a very dumb thing to say.  Terran seems to do just about anything it can to antagonize the Zuma and then throw a hissy fit when the Zuma get involved. 
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Anaris on May 08, 2012, 02:42:24 PM
I made no demands or threats I just asked for the terms they wanted for peace.   

To be fair, a great many people will read something of the form, "If A happens (that might be bad for us), then B will happen (that will be bad for you)" as a threat.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Sacha on May 08, 2012, 03:38:20 PM
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Darksun on May 08, 2012, 03:52:37 PM
Speak for yourself. If there was ever an MMO called 'Laugh At Their Pain' I'd sign up immediately.

I laughed and then felt bad for humanity as a whole. Then I went about reserving www.laughattheirpain.com.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on May 08, 2012, 04:22:29 PM
What Grimrog and Graeth have said about Kabrinskian/Asylonian relations prior to the war is true. We merely avoided being attacked because we had an influx of new nobles and Caerwynian nobles. Terran can remember me saying that an attack was coming soon. Kabrinskia then decided to push D'Hara so Asylon and D'Hara signed the alliance months before we actually made it official. We would wait till a war to start to actualize it. Then Kabrinskia started pushing Terran, Vellos fell into the trap of insighting the Zuma. I told Terran that we would only go to war if Kabrinskia attacked the same they said about us, since both of our sides were loth to help instigation. The Terrans declared war first but they had been pushed, we had all been pushed a long time, but I knew them declaring war first would damage our alliance and chances for sympathy. Now the war is being fought by Asylon merely in defense, because we honour our contract but out contract was broken by Terran starting the war even though they didnt start the hostilities.

Kabrinskia is an alien realm of easterners, it has been in the region a very very short time and already caused a lot of havoc. I think the thing that bothers the old realms is that our unwritten agreement was we would never use the Zuma in a conflict.We would ignore them. The Eastlanders do not have our culture nor history with the Zuma, like all things one day the Zuma will recognize how good it was before the Kabrinskians took them out of the garden.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Vellos on May 08, 2012, 04:35:40 PM
The Zuma GM mentioned an OOC witch-hunt against Garret. Not sure what that's about, but there was very much an IC effort to persecute Garret and make him feel unwanted and useless. I wasn't aware there was anything OOC going on. I never heard the whole circumstances of his departure from the game; I hope it wasn't about Garret's IC treatment... because Garret's IC treatment... was IC. You can't expect to be a human representing daimons and not be hated by other humans. It's inhuman behavior. Not tolerated (ICly).

I'll say again what I've said many times: the Zuma are a vacuum for every event in the area. No matter what we do, no matter how we go about it, everything always ends up with the Zuma. It seems increasingly impossible to have anything happen that is independent of the Zuma. I'm not sure why Tom believes this is fun, but presumably he does.

The point is, though, that we had a really interesting war shaping up. We had a war where both sides had mobility, and both sides had a demonstrated ability to beat the other side and invade their territory. That was fun. Now, that war is done. It is not done because any RP was resolved, or because any of the things that make BM wars interesting have happened. It is done because the GM has decided that we shouldn't have a war.

Terran's characters are behaving the way Tom has always said we should in relation to daimons: scared, terrified. We aren't heroic souls longing for a death in flames and glory. Everybody saying we should just attack because daimons aren't that bad is arguing against everything Tom has ever said about daimons. If they attack us, we'll defend, but we'd never attack. Which means that we all get to sit on the border and do... nothing.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Anaris on May 08, 2012, 04:38:05 PM
I'll say again what I've said many times: the Zuma are a vacuum for every event in the area. No matter what we do, no matter how we go about it, everything always ends up with the Zuma. It seems increasingly impossible to have anything happen that is independent of the Zuma. I'm not sure why Tom believes this is fun, but presumably he does.

Replace "the Zuma" with "Terran" or "Kabrinskia", and you'll probably find that it's the same.

They're a power in that area. Trying to pretend they don't exist, or expecting that they'll pretend you don't exist, seems to me to be pretty unrealistic.

Think of them as another realm, and a lot of your complaints about them suddenly sound really absurd.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Gustav Kuriga on May 08, 2012, 04:41:19 PM
I'm just going to ask that this thread be closed again. People can't keep from turning this into a flame fest about the Zuma.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Vellos on May 08, 2012, 04:45:30 PM
Replace "the Zuma" with "Terran" or "Kabrinskia", and you'll probably find that it's the same.

They're a power in that area. Trying to pretend they don't exist, or expecting that they'll pretend you don't exist, seems to me to be pretty unrealistic.

Think of them as another realm, and a lot of your complaints about them suddenly sound really absurd.

No, it's not the same.

Kabrinskia has multiple players. I can have spies in Kabrinskia. Kabrinskia can change. Kabrinskia can be destroyed without the fear that Tom will swoop down and say, "Sorry, not allowed" and veto the action (and before you hasten to laugh at that idea, go review everything any Dev has said about how the Zuma are meant to be there: it implies that removing the Zuma is not credible). In sum, the Zuma are unfightable. It doesn't matter if you win, you can still reasonably expect to lose. It doesn't matter how careful your politics are, the GM will veto it. It doesn't matter if it's the first real war in the area in many players' game memory: the GM isn't there so you'll have fun, the GM is there to.... who knows? Apparently some people know, and aren't saying.

The normal realm is composed of players with different desires and aims who generally want to have fun. Neither condition is true for the Zuma. The average realm can credibly be expected to stay dead. This is not true for the Zuma. The average realm wants to have politicking. This is not true for the Zuma. The average realm does not consist of nobles who enjoy sitting in one region for months on end. This is not true for the Zuma.

If the Zuma behaved like a normal realm, I'd be fine with that.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Vellos on May 08, 2012, 04:46:04 PM
I'm just going to ask that this thread be closed again. People can't keep from turning this into a flame fest about the Zuma.

Then we'll start another thread about the Terran-Kabrinskia war... and it'll become about the Zuma again.

The Zuma are part of the war.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Perth on May 08, 2012, 04:52:55 PM
Think of them as another realm, and a lot of your complaints about them suddenly sound really absurd.

I could think of them as corn pudding too, and a lot of our complaints would seem pretty silly.

The fact of the matter is, once more, they are not just any other realm. In fact, that's the whole point we're trying to make: they are not like just any other realm.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Telrunya on May 08, 2012, 04:57:56 PM
*bites his tongue* So, because I'm not particularly interested in reading the same complaints yet again, what's up with Barca and Aurvandil? Seems like the Moot might have another headache to worry about? I thought Barca used to be close to Aurvandil, what happened to that?
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on May 08, 2012, 05:08:13 PM
*bites his tongue* So, because I'm not particularly interested in reading the same complaints yet again, what's up with Barca and Aurvandil? Seems like the Moot might have another headache to worry about? I thought Barca used to be close to Aurvandil, what happened to that?

ya I am curious about that as well. 
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Meneldur on May 08, 2012, 05:09:58 PM
Am I the only one who thinks that the Zuma GM should be given the benefit of the doubt? I mean sure if he wanted to he could summon unlimited CS and stomp the Moot, but he is a GM and this is not an invasion. As such unless he acts on the contrary I would trust that he'll just add an exiting and unpredictable element to what would have been a rather dull and predictable conflict.

Yes, this intervention has messed up some IC plans, and my character would be the first to complain about it. But OOC'ly I don't see what he's done that merits all these complaints. He hasn't swamped the region with unlimited CS and he hasn't launched an invasion of Terran. In fact we don't know what his ultimate plans are other than sending a significant (but by no means unbeatable) force to protect his allies in Kabrinskia, something perfectly justifiable IC and by no means any more game-breaking than a decent human realm intervening.

So perhaps we should lay off the flame war and just see what happens before coming to the forums and accusing the Zuma GM, someone who has taken their own time to help the game, of stuff he hasn't even done yet. So far the war has stalled for a bit, but it's conclusion is by no means decided and I'm sure things will soon pick up again once the Zuma and Kabrinskia make their next move (after all they are the aggressors so the ball is in their court).

Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on May 08, 2012, 05:13:14 PM
Yeah that goes in the Barca Aurvandiil thread...
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Anaris on May 08, 2012, 05:14:34 PM
So perhaps we should lay off the flame war and just see what happens before coming to the forums and accusing the Zuma GM, someone who has taken their own time to help the game, of stuff he hasn't even done yet.

But where's the fun in that? The whole point of forums is to fan the flames as high as they can go! Especially against people who give of their time to try and improve the game experience!
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on May 08, 2012, 05:14:45 PM
(after all they are the aggressors so the ball is in their court).

Kabrinskia was not the aggressor in this war, Terran declared war on us. There was posturing on both sides before that but nothing aggressive until war was declared.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Meneldur on May 08, 2012, 05:26:23 PM
Kabrinskia was not the aggressor in this war, Terran declared war on us. There was posturing on both sides before that but nothing aggressive until war was declared.

Allison has been running around the Moot causing trouble for quite a bit of time before the official war declaration was issued. Provoking someone into declaring war doesn't mean your not an aggressor, it just means your clever about it. And Terran has even declared they have no desire to conquer any Kabrinskian regions.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on May 08, 2012, 05:31:42 PM
Allison has been running around the Moot causing trouble for quite a bit of time before the official war declaration was issued. Provoking someone into declaring war doesn't mean your not an aggressor, it just means your clever about it. And Terran has even declared they have no desire to conquer any Kabrinskian regions.

As I said, Kabrinskia is not the aggressor, Terran is.  I admit that there was lots of posturing before hand but that was on both sides.  Terran declared war that makes them the aggressor.  Maybe an unwilling aggressor, but the aggressor nonetheless. They did not have to declare war, they did not have to let Allison control them so easily. They could have taken the high ground and ignored Allison.  they did not and now they are the aggressor in the war.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Perth on May 08, 2012, 05:32:51 PM
Kabrinskia was not the aggressor in this war, Terran declared war on us. There was posturing on both sides before that but nothing aggressive until war was declared.

Do you actually, OOC, believe that?


Hell, a few posts ago you were saying how Terran should hand over 1-2 regions and pay tribute, and you're saying Terran is the aggressor?

All Terran wants and is asking for is her sovereignty to be respected, we basically just declared war so we could arrest any the nobles Allison kept sending through to purposefully break our treaty.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Perth on May 08, 2012, 05:34:26 PM
As I said, Kabrinskia is not the aggressor, Terran is.  I admit that there was lots of posturing before hand but that was on both sides.  Terran declared war that makes them the aggressor.  Maybe an unwilling aggressor, but the aggressor nonetheless. They did not have to declare war, they did not have to let Allison control them so easily. They could have taken the high ground and ignored Allison.  they did not and now they are the aggressor in the war.

That is a bit like saying that because Britain and France declared war on Hitler in 1939 that it makes them the aggressor.


No, Kabrinskia broke the treaty, that makes them the aggressor.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on May 08, 2012, 05:38:21 PM
Do you actually, OOC, believe that?


Hell, a few posts ago you were saying how Terran should hand over 1-2 regions and pay tribute, and you're saying Terran is the aggressor?

All Terran wants and is asking for is her sovereignty to be respected, we basically just declared war so we could arrest any the nobles Allison kept sending through to purposefully break our treaty.

LOL  fist of all I stated that I was only pulling your leg about the regions and the tribute.  I did it to get this thread going again. and it worked.

And what harm was being done by traders entering Terran lands to trade? Oh and a priest headed to Zuma lands to speak to Haktoo.

If Terran had waited till spring, Kabrinskia would have been the Aggressor, but they did not, so they became the aggressor.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on May 08, 2012, 05:42:29 PM
That is a bit like saying that because Britain and France declared war on Hitler in 1939 that it makes them the aggressor.


No, Kabrinskia broke the treaty, that makes them the aggressor.

What Treaty?  All I remember was a declaration of closed borders that was never put to paper (no treaty was sent to us via game mechanics that I know of)  A treaty takes 2 or more parties that agree on something.  All Terran did was say stay out and then invited a trader to trade and used that and a priests travels to declare war.

NO, Terran is the aggressor in this war.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on May 08, 2012, 05:46:35 PM
No matter how you spin it, Kabrinskia is the aggressor in this war.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Lorgan on May 08, 2012, 05:48:05 PM
*Sigh*
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on May 08, 2012, 05:48:23 PM
No matter how you spin it, Kabrinskia is the aggressor in this war.

That is just it, I am not putting a spin on it.  I simply look at the facts and that makes Terran the aggressor.

The "spin" is coming from the other side.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on May 08, 2012, 05:49:19 PM
hey we said something that was not related to the ZUMA   hurray!!!
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: dustole on May 08, 2012, 05:50:33 PM
It doesnt matter who started it.  We were about to declare war anyway.  The only thing that matters is who wins....
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on May 08, 2012, 05:51:15 PM
It doesnt matter who started it.  We were about to declare war anyway.  The only thing that matters is who wins....


Shhhhhh

I am having fun
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Perth on May 08, 2012, 05:54:43 PM
And what harm was being done by traders entering Terran lands to trade? Oh and a priest headed to Zuma lands to speak to Haktoo.

It broke the treaty.

What Treaty?

The Demyansk Accord (http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Terran/Demyansk_Accord)

The treaty that said the borders were closed unless specific permission was given by either nation for the other nation's nobles to pass through.

Look, just because your character doesn't realize Allison is scheming and manipulative and only tells your realms biased info, doesn't mean you the player has to believe that, too.

And yes, it was an actual in-game treaty too. It was replaced by the "Terran Reiteration of Sovereignty" when Kabrinskia started sending nobles in to purposefully violate the Demyansk Accord.

Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Anaris on May 08, 2012, 05:55:03 PM
It doesnt matter who started it.  We were about to declare war anyway.  The only thing that matters is who wins....

This is something that has baffled me frequently. So many people seem to feel, OOC, that it's VITALLY IMPORTANT that their realm not be seen as the aggressor, in any war, ever.

The important thing is, as you say, not who starts the war, but who finishes it.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on May 08, 2012, 05:57:21 PM
It broke the treaty.

The Demyansk Accord (http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Terran/Demyansk_Accord)

The treaty that said the borders were closed unless specific permission was given by either nation for the other nation's nobles to pass through.

Look, just because your character doesn't realize Allison is scheming and manipulative and only tells your realms biased info, doesn't mean you the player has to believe that, too.

And yes, it was an actual in-game treaty too. It was replaced by the "Terran Reiteration of Sovereignty" when Kabrinskia started sending nobles in to purposefully violate the Demyansk Accord.

isn't that an accord or declaration of closed borders, not a treaty. 

OK, Kabrinskia violated the closed border and that is a valid reason to declare war. but we did not break a treaty.... sorry but it is a point of honor.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Perth on May 08, 2012, 06:07:50 PM
isn't that an accord or declaration of closed borders, not a treaty. 

OK, Kabrinskia violated the closed border and that is a valid reason to declare war. but we did not break a treaty.... sorry but it is a point of honor.

Dude, c'mon. The guy playing Allison just got on basically said he provoked it.

From Merriam-Webster's "Accord: noun: a formal reaching of agreement; a compact, treaty"

Yes, when two nations sign an agreement between them it is a treaty.

Kabrinskia broke it. Purposefully. Many times.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on May 08, 2012, 06:09:27 PM
Dude, c'mon. The guy playing Allison just got on basically said he provoked it.

From Merriam-Webster's "Accord: noun: a formal reaching of agreement; a compact, treaty"

Yes, when two nations sign an agreement between them it is a treaty.

Kabrinskia broke it. Purposefully. Many times.

I was not under the impression that Kabrinskia ever signed the treaty.  I may be wrong if I am I am sorry.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Geronus on May 08, 2012, 06:09:37 PM
This is something that has baffled me frequently. So many people seem to feel, OOC, that it's VITALLY IMPORTANT that their realm not be seen as the aggressor, in any war, ever.

The important thing is, as you say, not who starts the war, but who finishes it.

It matters in the political arena. It can help you gain allies to your cause or to dissuade others from joining your enemies if you can paint yourself as the innocent victim and your enemy as the greedy aggressor/bully.

As to why it matters here, in this OOC forum? I have no clue, except to say that sometimes players get caught up in the passions of their characters. I know I do from time to time.  :)
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Indirik on May 08, 2012, 06:09:50 PM
Wasn't there a treaty signed by both realms that declared the non-travel restrictions?
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Geronus on May 08, 2012, 06:10:42 PM
Dude, c'mon. The guy playing Allison just got on basically said he provoked it.

From Merriam-Webster's "Accord: noun: a formal reaching of agreement; a compact, treaty"

Yes, when two nations sign an agreement between them it is a treaty.

Kabrinskia broke it. Purposefully. Many times.

I thought that trader had permission from Terran's banker to travel through Terran? The priest did not, as far as I know.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on May 08, 2012, 06:12:30 PM
I thought that trader had permission from Terran's banker to travel through Terran? The priest did not, as far as I know.
That is what I understood.


Wasn't there a treaty signed by both realms that declared the non-travel restrictions?

Not that I know of.  but I am not a diplomat, I could be wrong.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Graeth on May 08, 2012, 06:14:52 PM
It matters in the political arena. It can help you gain allies to your cause or to dissuade others from joining your enemies if you can paint yourself as the innocent victim and your enemy as the greedy aggressor/bully.

As to why it matters here, in this OOC forum? I have no clue, except to say that sometimes players get caught up in the passions of their characters. I know I do from time to time.  :)

Players have a difficult time separating OOC from IC on these forums.  That makes these forums just as important for in game staging as messages sent through the game....if not more important since the forum messages reach a wider audience. 
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Perth on May 08, 2012, 06:15:21 PM
I was not under the impression that Kabrinskia ever signed the treaty.  I may be wrong if I am I am sorry.

*sigh* .... yes. Yes, she signed it.


I thought that trader had permission from Terran's banker to travel through Terran? The priest did not, as far as I know.


Depends which trader your talking about. The first had permission to meet the Terran banker in Faithill. Which he did. And then continued deeper into Terran, was asked to leave, didn't for a while, then left. The second trader just went strolling willy nilly and unannounced all the way down to Vashgew/Saffalore area and refused to respond to requests for him to leave. THEN the priest came through.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Perth on May 08, 2012, 06:16:25 PM
Players have a difficult time separating OOC from IC on these forums.  That makes these forums just as important for in game staging as messages sent through the game....if not more important since the forum messages reach a wider audience.

This is very true. The forums shape a lot of people's IC views of whole realms, people, or conflicts.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on May 08, 2012, 06:31:33 PM
*sigh* .... yes. Yes, she signed it.


Then you have my most humble apologies.  That is news to me. I would never have signed it.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on May 08, 2012, 06:36:11 PM
This cold war is about to get hot.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on May 08, 2012, 06:36:53 PM
This cold war is about to get hot.

Why do you say that?
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Graeth on May 08, 2012, 06:40:25 PM
Glaumring called some entertainment
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on May 08, 2012, 06:49:14 PM
Its from a movie and it sounded cool... Yippie-ki-aye-mother-censored
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Vellos on May 08, 2012, 07:28:22 PM
This is something that has baffled me frequently. So many people seem to feel, OOC, that it's VITALLY IMPORTANT that their realm not be seen as the aggressor, in any war, ever.

Because the politics is the fun part (hence why the Zuma aren't fun).

I thought that trader had permission from Terran's banker to travel through Terran? The priest did not, as far as I know.

3 successive nobles violated the treaty by breaking travel rules.

I was not under the impression that Kabrinskia ever signed the treaty.  I may be wrong if I am I am sorry.

Allison signed it. Click on the link Perth gave. Allison's name is there, isn't it? She signed it.



We debate the issue because it is fun to do so. And we enjoy gloating about accomplishments. We argue about treaties for the same reasons sports fans argue about great plays.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on May 08, 2012, 07:40:42 PM
Now that it is settled that Allison did indeed sign the treaty.  what else should we discuss, other than whining about the Zuma?
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Marlboro on May 08, 2012, 08:58:11 PM
Now that it is settled that Allison did indeed sign the treaty.  what else should we discuss, other than whining about the Zuma?

Brom's pending elopement with Khari Kye! Oh wait he already has his own thread.

How about the terrible, terrible timing of the tournament? LOL
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Indirik on May 08, 2012, 09:07:49 PM
The tournament timing is perfect. It's the war that has poor timing. All proper nobles schedule their entertainment around the serious business of a tournament.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Marlboro on May 08, 2012, 09:12:13 PM
The tournament timing is perfect. It's the war that has poor timing. All proper nobles schedule their entertainment around the serious business of a tournament.

Well-said! I just wish more people could've made it, but I think they felt obligated to stick around for the theatrics of war.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Feylonis on May 08, 2012, 10:07:56 PM
Not that I know of.  but I am not a diplomat, I could be wrong.

You are wrong.


Also, to people saying that we should treat the Zuma as any other realm - that is not possible. Apples and oranges. "Any other realm" would have real flaws, such as troop movement not being 100% coordinated, individual player desires, and the possibility of destruction. I would personally have been fine with Astrum and/or Morek entering the war on Kabrinskia's side - they, at least, have equal risks to take. This is simply untrue for the Zuma.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Anaris on May 08, 2012, 10:12:22 PM
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Solari on May 08, 2012, 10:26:24 PM
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Dante Silverfire on May 08, 2012, 10:39:29 PM
Brom's pending elopement with Khari Kye! Oh wait he already has his own thread.

Or better yet, Brom's role in this war and how he personally has influenced the relations between the Zuma and Kabrinskia and the Zuma and Barca(/Moot)?

Or even consider what role he is having right now in the possibility or lack there of of peace in this war?

Cmon, you don't think such a change of events has no impact on the war at all do you? Perhaps I should send some more IC letters to stir up the thoughts on the issue. I mean its not like the only reason for his elopement is a power grab....
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Marlboro on May 08, 2012, 10:42:50 PM
I mean its not like the only reason for his elopement is a power grab....

Aw man I was just joking. Brom's defection was a complete game-changer and left everyone (including me) just sitting there dumb-founded. I look forward to seeing more of his plans unfold.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Meneldur on May 08, 2012, 10:50:59 PM
You are wrong.


Also, to people saying that we should treat the Zuma as any other realm - that is not possible. Apples and oranges. "Any other realm" would have real flaws, such as troop movement not being 100% coordinated, individual player desires, and the possibility of destruction. I would personally have been fine with Astrum and/or Morek entering the war on Kabrinskia's side - they, at least, have equal risks to take. This is simply untrue for the Zuma.

Zuma is not an ordinary realm, and yes that could result in a very unfair war. The key here however is could. Yes the Zuma could summon an unlimited army, yes they could stomp Terran, yes they could dominate the whole war.

But they haven't. FangFang is a formidable force, but still a beatable one and as I said in my previous post who wins this war is by no means guaranteed simply by FangFang's arrival (if he and Allison both attack Terran, I'm pretty sure with your allies you could repel them). In fact so far the biggest impact the daimons have had is the fear and horror they have induced, both in the Moot and elsewhere. Personally I don't see how this is a problem, in fact I find it quite fun, but each unto his own.

I trust that the Zuma GM, as a GM, will not abuse the Zuma but will merely use them in a way to further add to the conflict, and not dominate it as you fear. Even if you don't have this trust, then at least wait to see if he actually does abuse his powers as you fear, rather than coming to the forums and complaining about something that hasn't happened yet.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: GoldPanda on May 08, 2012, 10:54:39 PM
Brom is actually an agent of the Moot. He infiltrates realms that are considered threats and destroys them from within. 8)

The hilarious part is that this hare-brained scheme is still working. ;D
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Dante Silverfire on May 08, 2012, 10:57:11 PM
Brom is actually an agent of the Moot. He infiltrates realms that are considered threats and destroys them from within. 8)

The hilarious part is that this hare-brained scheme is still working. ;D

Worked on at least two realms so far...
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Solari on May 08, 2012, 11:05:55 PM
Also, to people saying that we should treat the Zuma as any other realm - that is not possible. Apples and oranges. "Any other realm" would have real flaws, such as troop movement not being 100% coordinated, individual player desires, and the possibility of destruction. I would personally have been fine with Astrum and/or Morek entering the war on Kabrinskia's side - they, at least, have equal risks to take. This is simply untrue for the Zuma.

The only difference between the Zuma Coalition and any other realm is that other realms have several players.  The Zuma don't have an infinite number of NPCs, nor infinite CS, nor infinite gold.  They could be overrun and wiped off Dwilight if people put their mind to it.  To my mind, surviving for as long as it has is a tribute to the diplomatic and psychological skills of the people that have taken up the responsibility of GM over time.  Further, the current Zuma GM is one of the nicest, most decent players in the game (so clearly, it's not me).  They fully understand the responsibilities and limits of the role, and having speculative accusations routinely heaped upon them does take a toll.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on May 08, 2012, 11:25:37 PM
Worked on at least two realms so far...
then your saying we should have him drawn and quartered?
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Dante Silverfire on May 08, 2012, 11:40:14 PM
then your saying we should have him drawn and quartered?

No, I'm saying give him just enough power and responsibility to keep him both occupied and happy. Then you'll never have a problem. It worked for Alanna, until she started to dislike him.

Also, it may not be a good idea to have him drawn and quartered if you want the Zuma to stay on your side still.

Quite the dilemma really.

Although, of course Brom has changed. He is know a fervent and humble follower of the bloodstars. He no longer seeks power and merely wishes to serve his realm and his leaders as best as possible while pursuing balance of the stars' influence on his life.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Chenier on May 09, 2012, 12:30:35 AM
The Zuma are NOT like any other realm. Because with any other realm, we can plot their downfall and effectively destroy them if we play our cards right. The Zuma, as far as we know and from what was said on these forums by Tom and the devs, are there to stay. This means that they are not in any way accountable for what they do, IG. This means that we can't punish their IG actions in any way.

Because we know OOC that they would not be allowed to be destroyed, we don't bother actually trying it IG. It's metagaming, sure, but we've seen a hell of a lot worse from the Zuma GM himself, so see if I care. We didn't settle up in this corner of Dwilight to go fight NPCs.

The Zuma are NOT like any other human realm, and anyone saying otherwise is an outright hypocrite.

And yea, some of us feel that "the Zuma should not be a force on the continent", as Anaris so pejoratively said so. After years of living by them, yea, I'm pretty sick of them by now. I've heard too many "oh, okay, that was not fun, the Zuma won't do this anymore" over that time period.

Tell us that they will not be given infinite strength and that it is possible to kill them, and for the love of god, we will. I'm sick and tired of the Zuma going to ruin our fun every chance they get over the most random [email protected]#$ and in the lamest way.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Anaris on May 09, 2012, 12:34:50 AM
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Vellos on May 09, 2012, 12:39:35 AM
You assume a lot lately, in fact.

Personally, I don't find it credible either that a large military coalition would be allowed to/could wipe the Zuma out. The "get used to the Zuma" rhetoric implies exactly that.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Vellos on May 09, 2012, 12:40:44 AM
Or better yet, Brom's role in this war and how he personally has influenced the relations between the Zuma and Kabrinskia and the Zuma and Barca(/Moot)?

Or even consider what role he is having right now in the possibility or lack there of of peace in this war?

Cmon, you don't think such a change of events has no impact on the war at all do you? Perhaps I should send some more IC letters to stir up the thoughts on the issue. I mean its not like the only reason for his elopement is a power grab....

I think you greatly flatter yourself.

Brom is pretty much entirely irrelevant from our side of things.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Anaris on May 09, 2012, 12:42:47 AM
Personally, I don't find it credible either that a large military coalition would be allowed to/could wipe the Zuma out. The "get used to the Zuma" rhetoric implies exactly that.

Only if you assume that we're all deliberately crafting our forum posts to stay on-message.

Seriously, do you not see that it's "get used to the Zuma" as opposed to, "fine, you win, we'll just delete the Zuma right now"?

It has nothing to do with their military defeatability.

Personally, I don't know if Tom would artificially augment the Zuma if they turned out to be losing. I don't know his official position on this. But I sort of doubt it. Based on his policies in other places, I think his attitude would be along the lines of, "If they got defeated, then they deserve to be gone, and if you defeated them, you deserve their land."
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on May 09, 2012, 12:43:10 AM
No one likes to have their big guns taken away. Especially when they are winning... I get used to playing the underdog.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Lorgan on May 09, 2012, 12:44:46 AM
We said we weren't going to remove them just because you bitch and moan all the time.

Seriously.

People need to stop thinking they can influence IC events by OOC whining on the forum. Kabrinskia didn't do anything that you couldn't have done, so stop it and roll with it OR go play in the "Here be NO dragons"-part of the continent.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on May 09, 2012, 12:46:01 AM
Oh and who the flip cares about Brom, no one in the west cares.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Vellos on May 09, 2012, 12:55:03 AM
Only if you assume that we're all deliberately crafting our forum posts to stay on-message.

Which I do.

Personally, I don't know if Tom would artificially augment the Zuma if they turned out to be losing. I don't know his official position on this. But I sort of doubt it. Based on his policies in other places, I think his attitude would be along the lines of, "If they got defeated, then they deserve to be gone, and if you defeated them, you deserve their land."

Yay. We deserve worthless badlands. That'd totally be worth the trouble. And if we destroy the Zuma, we'd break ourselves in the process, and some other player (probably one better at playing Zumamaster) would come in behind us and kill us.

But, again, it's not like I think there's a solution to the problem. I think the GM has done about as good a job as he/she can be expected to, given the circumstances: but that the best that can be expected is that the Zuma will only ruin the experience for 80% of the players who interact with them. I'll reiterate what I've said: I'd be fine with the Zuma rampaging through and destroying Terran. Do it. But it's the sitting around doing nothing, shutting down every avenue for potential conflict that's bothersome. Every time something gets started, the Zuma come in and shut it down.

People need to stop thinking they can influence IC events by OOC whining on the forum.

This is an accusation without any foundation.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Lorgan on May 09, 2012, 01:03:02 AM
This is an accusation without any foundation.

If you're not trying to get rid of the Zuma or trying to influence the Zuma GM's decisions, then why have you, and others, been spamming this forum with your complaints about them for so long then?
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Bjarnson on May 09, 2012, 01:03:18 AM
Haktoo all of a sudden got buddy buddy with Kabrinskia?  That "buddy buddy"  aspect took months... really,  months to accomplish.  This isn't something that happened overnight.  It was made quite clear to the rulers of Barca, Asylon, Terran and D'hara that this was happening.  They all knew I was making frequent trips to the Zuma yet you all still did nothing to communicate effectively with the Zuma.

I am sure it took months, I am not contending that. I was just suprised that the Daimons took your side, but im getting over my hurt feelings now so its ok  :). Plus i think im starting to see why You are the more popular friend at the moment ;).

Asylon dealt with Garret.  That was your own mistake.  If you wanted to be peaceful with the Zuma you should have dealt directly with them. 

Clearly it was, but it was how I was told to communicate with the Daimon leadership, as he was their ambassador and responsible for all communications with humans.  A lesson well learned.

Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on May 09, 2012, 01:04:10 AM
He who controls the Zuma controls Dwilight... The Zuma must flow... I am Muad'dib.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Graeth on May 09, 2012, 01:06:10 AM
If you're not trying to get rid of the Zuma or trying to influence the Zuma GM's decisions, then why have you, and others, been spamming this forum with your complaints about them for so long then?

Why are members of Luria spamming a thread which has nothing to do with them?

It seems most people aren't whining but have constructive criticism and this conflict has finally produced a good platform where it can be discussed.  Sometimes discussion can be helpful even if it doesn't lead to drastic IG changes.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Chenier on May 09, 2012, 01:08:59 AM
Zuma is not an ordinary realm, and yes that could result in a very unfair war. The key here however is could. Yes the Zuma could summon an unlimited army, yes they could stomp Terran, yes they could dominate the whole war.

But they haven't. FangFang is a formidable force, but still a beatable one and as I said in my previous post who wins this war is by no means guaranteed simply by FangFang's arrival (if he and Allison both attack Terran, I'm pretty sure with your allies you could repel them). In fact so far the biggest impact the daimons have had is the fear and horror they have induced, both in the Moot and elsewhere. Personally I don't see how this is a problem, in fact I find it quite fun, but each unto his own.

I trust that the Zuma GM, as a GM, will not abuse the Zuma but will merely use them in a way to further add to the conflict, and not dominate it as you fear. Even if you don't have this trust, then at least wait to see if he actually does abuse his powers as you fear, rather than coming to the forums and complaining about something that hasn't happened yet.

They just got involved. Nothing's to say that they won't summon more forces once they are actually provoked by being attacked. A typical "send a tiny force in the enemy's way to have him crush it and then use that as justification to launch a full-scale war".

And maybe you trust the Zuma GM. But with what I've witnessed, I just don't. Not since the Terrance incident. The Zuma are typically very ware and distrustful, but they are WAY too eager to jump against the 'moot every chance they get.

If Tom says they can be defeated, then I'll shut up and start plotting IC to get rid of them once and for all. Otherwise, no amount of IC planning will lead to anything.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on May 09, 2012, 01:14:46 AM
Oh Zuma...
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: egamma on May 09, 2012, 01:20:20 AM
Which I do.


You're entitled to your own paranoia opinion.

The devs all say the same thing because they don't know why the Zuma are there. Only Tom and the Zumamaster know.

Quote
Yay. We deserve worthless badlands. That'd totally be worth the trouble. And if we destroy the Zuma, we'd break ourselves in the process, and some other player (probably one better at playing Zumamaster) would come in behind us and kill us.

You don't have to keep the regions, just TO them all, kill the daimons, and then let the regions go rogue. You really think that someone is going to fight those who defeated the Zuma? Anyone capable of defeating the Zuma is someone that I would want to be friendly towards, not hostile, lest they do the same to me.

Quote
But, again, it's not like I think there's a solution to the problem. I think the GM has done about as good a job as he/she can be expected to, given the circumstances: but that the best that can be expected is that the Zuma will only ruin the experience for 80% of the players who interact with them. I'll reiterate what I've said: I'd be fine with the Zuma rampaging through and destroying Terran. Do it. But it's the sitting around doing nothing, shutting down every avenue for potential conflict that's bothersome. Every time something gets started, the Zuma come in and shut it down.

You shut it down. Your character could choose to continue their war. On the other hand, your goal was to kick them out of Terran lands, so your stated goal was to sit in your own regions doing nothing.

Quote
This is an accusation without any foundation.

Really? It's a coincidence that as soon as TMP was disabled, after massive whining on the forums, that the same people turned around and found something else to complain about?
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: dustole on May 09, 2012, 01:21:04 AM
If the Zuma wanted to destroy you they would.  You read too far into it.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on May 09, 2012, 01:25:47 AM
If the Zuma wanted to destroy you they would.  You read too far into it.

That is one of the reasons I do not understand all the whining about the zuma.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Lorgan on May 09, 2012, 01:26:46 AM
Why are members of Luria spamming a thread which has nothing to do with them?

Because yes, IC I'm a member of Luria and I couldn't give a rat's ass about all of this but OOC - and this forum is 100% OOC - I'm irritated by the incessant whining that follows every action of the Zuma one month after the other.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Feylonis on May 09, 2012, 02:24:55 AM
I'm curious to see what song you'd sing if the Zuma decided to march an army through your realms. Better yet, if they started taking over your regions because of a forgery, heh.

Also, "the Zuma have done nothing yet, don't worry about it" is like saying "This gun is pointed at you, but chill, dude, I haven't pulled the trigger yet."
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on May 09, 2012, 02:33:09 AM
I would really like to see a Zuma group next to every kingdom. Many from the east see nothing wrong with the Zuma and fault us for founding kingdoms so close. I wish we had a few weeks of a closed map to found our kingdom in the safe east too.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Chenier on May 09, 2012, 02:34:41 AM
Because yes, IC I'm a member of Luria and I couldn't give a rat's ass about all of this but OOC - and this forum is 100% OOC - I'm irritated by the incessant whining that follows every action of the Zuma one month after the other.

Then don't read the threads that involve the Zuma. It's not as if it has anything to do with the Lurias, after all.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Marlboro on May 09, 2012, 02:50:06 AM
I'm curious to see what song you'd sing if the Zuma decided to march an army through your realms.

ROFL Yeah I'm sure he has no idea what that's like.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: vonGenf on May 09, 2012, 02:51:35 AM
No, you don't. You assume.

It's difficult not to assume things based upon the information you have. If you don't do this, you don't have much to base your thoughts on.

For example, when you say this:

Personally, I don't know if Tom would artificially augment the Zuma if they turned out to be losing. I don't know his official position on this. But I sort of doubt it. Based on his policies in other places, I think his attitude would be along the lines of, "If they got defeated, then they deserve to be gone, and if you defeated them, you deserve their land."

It is also based on an assumption. Maybe a better one; who knows? I'd like to know, so I'll think about it, and eventually I'll assume one way or the other. Or maybe someone who knows will say for sure; I assume they won't.

The Zuma don't have an infinite number of NPCs, nor infinite CS, nor infinite gold.  They could be overrun and wiped off Dwilight if people put their mind to it.

So, is this also an assumption, or is this an announcement? I figured they didn't have infinite CS, but that they have finite NPCs is an interesting information. If this means they are killable, and they don't automagically come back or get replaced by a new NPC with a slightly different name, then it does make them theoretically removable.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: egamma on May 09, 2012, 04:21:25 AM
Is it possible to put a bounty on a Daimon?
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Chenier on May 09, 2012, 04:22:52 AM
Is it possible to put a bounty on a Daimon?

It is as possible as it is pointless.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: egamma on May 09, 2012, 04:33:18 AM
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Penchant on May 09, 2012, 04:36:51 AM
There are several bounties on daimons currently though Haktoo last I checked was the highest at 400 gold. And Screamer you could put a bounty on by inquiring about people's experiences with him since from what I have heard that should be enough reason to put a bounty on him considering I have heard he has scared the crap out of all who meet him pretty much and those who scare you many want gone.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Chenier on May 09, 2012, 04:37:27 AM
I dunno. I could contribute 1000 gold to a bounty on, say, Screamer, if I had an IC reason to do so. Right now, Flame and Haktoo have not attacked Terran or D'Hara.

As I said.

You could indeed. But what on earth would it achieve? Tempt a Kabrinskian to stab them, at best.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: egamma on May 09, 2012, 04:48:39 AM
There are several bounties on daimons currently though Haktoo last I checked was the highest at 400 gold. And Screamer you could put a bounty on by inquiring about people's experiences with him since from what I have heard that should be enough reason to put a bounty on him considering I have heard he has scared the crap out of all who meet him pretty much and those who scare you many want gone.

That's the problem--people are cheapskates. The highest bounty collected is 7000. We could easily beat that.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Chenier on May 09, 2012, 04:51:17 AM
That's the problem--people are cheapskates. The highest bounty collected is 7000. We could easily beat that.

Except that it's pointless. Someone taking a jab at the daimons isn't likely to achieve anything meaningful. Infiltrator attacks are a pretty horrible means to get anything done.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: egamma on May 09, 2012, 04:57:33 AM
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Chenier on May 09, 2012, 05:00:55 AM
Nah. You get some infiltrator from Luria--one of those Manifest Path guys--to do it, and while the Daimons are on the march, we TO their regions.

The manifest guys are smart enough to make it all look like D'Hara's fault.

Not that they have to try very hard, because that's basically what the Zuma want to hear...
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Vellos on May 09, 2012, 05:10:32 AM
You don't have to keep the regions, just TO them all, kill the daimons, and then let the regions go rogue. You really think that someone is going to fight those who defeated the Zuma? Anyone capable of defeating the Zuma is someone that I would want to be friendly towards, not hostile, lest they do the same to me.

1. That would result in vast monster hordes hitting us all the time, making it difficult to launch any further wars. You can't just leave rogue lands like that. Especially a volcano known to spew out daimons.

2. That's bullcrap about "If you can beat the Zuma, you can beat anyone." Your allies against the Zuma might not be your allies against some other realm. You might have tactics that would work against the Zuma better than against human opponents (RTOs stand out in my mind). That is serious political naivete if you think that just because a realm can knock off the biggest kid on the block that suddenly everyone will be buddy-buddy with them.

You shut it down. Your character could choose to continue their war. On the other hand, your goal was to kick them out of Terran lands, so your stated goal was to sit in your own regions doing nothing.

This is total crap. So I am making Terran's characters sit boredly in our lands? By stalling on peace offers and trying to find new avenues of attack, by launching raiding parties over the mountains, by trying to arrange a plausible way to clear the Zuma from Demyansk, I am causing stagnation? Because Hireshmont won't order suicidal attacks at armies with twice the CS of Terran's, I am the source of stagnation? That's nonsense, and you know it. Terran's stated goal was not to kick them out. Terran's stated goal was to punish Kabrinskia for breaking the treaty. Terran's behavior before the Zuma arrived clearly indicated that policing our own borders was not our whole objective. And Terran never claimed it was.

No, more plausibly, the source of stagnation is the 10,000 CS unit controlled by one player which arrived nearly unannounced and now, two or three weeks later, despite inquiries, still hasn't been explained.  Maybe, just maybe, that is the source of stagnation. But maybe I'm just crazy in thinking that giant armies sitting indefinitely on contested borders, never advancing, never retreating (do daimons not need to refit, I guess?) are a source of stagnation. Of course, that's kind of the definition of stagnation.

Really? It's a coincidence that as soon as TMP was disabled, after massive whining on the forums, that the same people turned around and found something else to complain about?

I actually do not know what you are talking about. I didn't complain about TMP. I'm not sure if Perth did either, or Graeth, or Glaumring. Talk about paranoia.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Vellos on May 09, 2012, 05:12:02 AM
Oh, and why do we argue about this here?

Because, I dunno, it's a forum. That's the point. Maybe we should talk about the weather instead?
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on May 09, 2012, 05:49:24 AM
I had no idea what TMP was until I read the wiki ' the manifest path'
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: OFaolain on May 09, 2012, 07:13:29 AM
I had no idea what TMP was until I read the wiki ' the manifest path'

I thought it was an acronym for "Too Much Peace".  I guess that also works.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Zuma GM on May 09, 2012, 07:52:17 AM
No, more plausibly, the source of stagnation is the 10,000 CS unit controlled by one player which arrived nearly unannounced and now, two or three weeks later, despite inquiries, still hasn't been explained.  Maybe, just maybe, that is the source of stagnation. But maybe I'm just crazy in thinking that giant armies sitting indefinitely on contested borders, never advancing, never retreating (do daimons not need to refit, I guess?) are a source of stagnation. Of course, that's kind of the definition of stagnation.

Stop lying.
They were unannounced to you. At least two realms knew they were heading there whilst Fang Fang was still in the Corridor of Torment, a journey that took over a week of real time travel, possibly two, I can't check the travel times any more.
Also you state that, despite enquiries, it has not been explained why they are there. You, Hireshmont II Vellos, were told, and responded to the message yesterday (yes, this was delayed as I missed your original message but it still happened before this message you have posted stating it has not been explained). Glaumring was told 13 days ago.
Just because you don't like the explanation, stop lying and stating that none has been given. As rulers of realms you have responsibilities to the players within your realm and by purposefully providing inaccurate information on the forums it just appears petty and intentionally trying to stir OOC bad feelings toward the Zuma.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Velax on May 09, 2012, 08:07:50 AM
Has anyone contacted the Zuma to ask what would happen if Fang Fang's army were attacked? "Hi, Haktoo, it seems like one of your fellow Zuma is here with 10,000 CS. Is this a one-off force to help your allies Kabrinskia, or if we fight and defeat them are you gong to send more?"
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Perth on May 09, 2012, 09:53:10 AM
Stop lying.
They were unannounced to you. At least two realms knew they were heading there whilst Fang Fang was still in the Corridor of Torment, a journey that took over a week of real time travel, possibly two, I can't check the travel times any more.
Also you state that, despite enquiries, it has not been explained why they are there. You, Hireshmont II Vellos, were told, and responded to the message yesterday (yes, this was delayed as I missed your original message but it still happened before this message you have posted stating it has not been explained). Glaumring was told 13 days ago.
Just because you don't like the explanation, stop lying and stating that none has been given. As rulers of realms you have responsibilities to the players within your realm and by purposefully providing inaccurate information on the forums it just appears petty and intentionally trying to stir OOC bad feelings toward the Zuma.



So... why is Fang Fang there?
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on May 09, 2012, 09:56:21 AM



So... why is Fang Fang there?

To defend Kabrinskia of course..... At least that is what I think since he is not attacking Terran.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Perth on May 09, 2012, 10:00:15 AM
To defend Kabrinskia of course..... At least that is what I think since he is not attacking Terran.

Thank you, captain obvious.

The question is, why IS Fang Fang defending Kabrinskia? Why Haktoo, who up until to now has only acted as if humans are some kind of rodent at her feet hardly worth her attention unless we prove annoying or "disrespectful" want to defend a bunch of humans from other humans?
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Solari on May 09, 2012, 01:08:09 PM
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Feylonis on May 09, 2012, 01:37:53 PM
See, that's exactly what the realms around the Zuma have been trying to do - figure out how they roll. In one of the older threads when Terran and Co. were grumbling how hard it was to deal with the Zuma, it was said that 'talk to Garrett, he's the Ambassador, the Zuma don't like dealing with human realms directly'. So people started talking to Garrett. Now people are saying 'Garrett is useless, you should have talked to the Zuma directly' - that's where it gets frustrating.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Chenier on May 09, 2012, 01:41:35 PM
What I don't get is why Allison provoked a war just to have the daimons immediately arrive to stall it. She was suing for peace as soon as the war she caused had begun! What the hell!? It's like "Hey, you'll finally have a decent war and a chance to slug at us... OH SNAP NO! DAIMON COCKBLOCK!"
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Telrunya on May 09, 2012, 01:57:12 PM
See, that's exactly what the realms around the Zuma have been trying to do - figure out how they roll. In one of the older threads when Terran and Co. were grumbling how hard it was to deal with the Zuma, it was said that 'talk to Garrett, he's the Ambassador, the Zuma don't like dealing with human realms directly'. So people started talking to Garrett. Now people are saying 'Garrett is useless, you should have talked to the Zuma directly' - that's where it gets frustrating.

That's just part of the process of figuring things out :) If you want a step-by-step walkthrough, there isn't one. If you talked a lot with Garrett, you could have come to eventually realize he wasn't always the best way to approach the Zuma. He was great for some information and he was a good starting point, allowing you to learn a few things about the Zuma without your words pissing off the big bad Daimons. Garrett wasn't the nicest person, but he didn't send Zuma armies towards you whenever you said something wrong (Mostly because he couldn't and was as scared of pissing off the Zuma as others).
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Solari on May 09, 2012, 02:06:41 PM
That's just part of the process of figuring things out :) If you want a step-by-step walkthrough, there isn't one. If you talked a lot with Garrett, you could have come to eventually realize he wasn't always the best way to approach the Zuma. He was great for some information and he was a good starting point, allowing you to learn a few things about the Zuma without your words pissing off the big bad Daimons. Garrett wasn't the nicest person, but he didn't send Zuma armies towards you whenever you said something wrong (Mostly because he couldn't and was as scared of pissing off the Zuma as others).

Everything about this post is factually correct, which can hardly be said for several others.  For example, why is everyone taking Kabrinskia at their word for the explanation of events they're giving?  What's more plausible: that some people are framing the facts to best fit their needs (and maybe to mess with your heads), or that the Zuma have decided to do something that is so far unprecedented?
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Indirik on May 09, 2012, 02:54:35 PM
Quote
Terran's behavior before the Zuma arrived clearly indicated that policing our own borders was not our whole objective. And Terran never claimed it was.

Well, that's not true. Your original war declaration was that you were only defending your borders, and would not invade.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: egamma on May 09, 2012, 03:32:12 PM
2. That's bullcrap about "If you can beat the Zuma, you can beat anyone." Your allies against the Zuma might not be your allies against some other realm. You might have tactics that would work against the Zuma better than against human opponents (RTOs stand out in my mind). That is serious political naivete if you think that just because a realm can knock off the biggest kid on the block that suddenly everyone will be buddy-buddy with them.

I meant, "if you can beat the Zuma, other realms will be very, very worried that you can beat them as well."

Quote
I actually do not know what you are talking about. I didn't complain about TMP. I'm not sure if Perth did either, or Graeth, or Glaumring. Talk about paranoia.

Okay, maybe that was mostly Chenier complaining about both TMP (Too Much Peace, not Manifest Path) and the Daimons. Sorry.

Here's what I've been trying to say:

Figure.  It.  Out.  Do something other than demand explanations on the forums.  That's laziness.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Graeth on May 09, 2012, 05:23:00 PM
Everything about this post is factually correct, which can hardly be said for several others.  For example, why is everyone taking Kabrinskia at their word for the explanation of events they're giving?  What's more plausible: that some people are framing the facts to best fit their needs (and maybe to mess with your heads), or that the Zuma have decided to do something that is so far unprecedented?

Some of us have more IG info that is best not shared over the forums
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Sacha on May 09, 2012, 05:26:31 PM
And who says others don't know as much as, more than, or different things than you do? Many people have many fingers in many pies in many places around Dwilight.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Vellos on May 09, 2012, 05:26:55 PM
Well, that's not true. Your original war declaration was that you were only defending your borders, and would not invade.

No. Our original declaration was that we would not invade unless we were invaded.

Stop lying.
They were unannounced to you. At least two realms knew they were heading there whilst Fang Fang was still in the Corridor of Torment, a journey that took over a week of real time travel, possibly two, I can't check the travel times any more.
Also you state that, despite enquiries, it has not been explained why they are there. You, Hireshmont II Vellos, were told, and responded to the message yesterday (yes, this was delayed as I missed your original message but it still happened before this message you have posted stating it has not been explained). Glaumring was told 13 days ago.
Just because you don't like the explanation, stop lying and stating that none has been given. As rulers of realms you have responsibilities to the players within your realm and by purposefully providing inaccurate information on the forums it just appears petty and intentionally trying to stir OOC bad feelings toward the Zuma.

I'm not lying. I'm telling the truth.

I asked why Haktoo is defending Kabrinskia. The answer I got is that Haktoo is defending Kabrinskia. That's not an explanation.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Graeth on May 09, 2012, 05:29:51 PM
And who says others don't know as much as, more than, or different things than you do? Many people have many fingers in many pies in many places around Dwilight.

Obviously there are many who know much more than we do, or this whole nonsense wouldn't have started.  I'm merely saying that certain info that hasn't been shared yet on the forums makes it appear that this Allison business is about to lead to something unprecedented. 
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Sacha on May 09, 2012, 05:34:20 PM
It's Allison. You'd think her foes would have learned to expect the unexpected by now, wouldn't you? People are looking for consistent reasonable and/or sensible behavior from a woman who, and I can't stress this part enough, drilled a hole in her skull to get better reception from the Blood Stars and has caused enough civil unrest to put most Lurians to shame.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Graeth on May 09, 2012, 05:37:39 PM
Many of us on the Western half not in SA had no idea who she was until the Caerwyn war and talk about Astrum's colony.  Still have no idea who this Brom fellow is that people bring up on the forum.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Vellos on May 09, 2012, 05:41:38 PM
It's Allison. You'd think her foes would have learned to expect the unexpected by now, wouldn't you? People are looking for consistent reasonable and/or sensible behavior from a woman who, and I can't stress this part enough, drilled a hole in her skull to get better reception from the Blood Stars and has caused enough civil unrest to put most Lurians to shame.

I expect craziness from Allison.

I didn't expect the Zuma GM to play along.

We knew long before the war that Allison had frequent contact with the Zuma. We periodically tried to interrupt her travels there. We even sent an ambassador of our own (who got no response; dunno why). We just didn't think that a very limited war (I mean, seriously: a war with no takeovers and explicit promise of the survival of the enemy from the get-go, as well as a pledge to never escalate conflict unless the other does so first. We didn't even invade until invaded. How much more limited of a war do you want?) was going to provoke 10,000 CS of Zuma.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on May 09, 2012, 05:46:01 PM
Obviously there are many who know much more than we do, or this whole nonsense wouldn't have started.  I'm merely saying that certain info that hasn't been shared yet on the forums makes it appear that this Allison business is about to lead to something unprecedented.

Lets hope so.  The Zuma need to play a bigger part on Dwilight. I see them as another realm. A Dangerous realm to be sure. One with serious language barriers as well as cultural barriers. Barriers that are alien to most of us. but a select few have spent much time and effort in uncovering and examining these differences and have been successful in negotiating with the Zuma.

People act like they expect the Zuma to sit in their own lands forever and not to have any ambitions or desires to increase their lands. I think those that believe that are foolish and will pay the price for their short sightedness.

Expand your horizons and look at the Zuma as a viable realm. And seek to improve relations with them if you can. Pissing them off is a bad thing unless you have strong allies that are willing to aide you in fighting them.  But I believe that such a fight is possible to win as well. But it will be costly and there is the real chance that you will lose.

I am sure that Tom has limited the abilities of the Zuma so that they are not unbeatable. After all that would be counter productive to the game as a whole.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Graeth on May 09, 2012, 05:47:03 PM
I expect craziness from Allison.

I didn't expect the Zuma GM to play along.

We knew long before the war that Allison had frequent contact with the Zuma. We periodically tried to interrupt her travels there. We even sent an ambassador of our own (who got no response; dunno why). We just didn't think that a very limited war (I mean, seriously: a war with no takeovers and explicit promise of the survival of the enemy from the get-go, as well as a pledge to never escalate conflict unless the other does so first. We didn't even invade until invaded. How much more limited of a war do you want?) was going to provoke 10,000 CS of Zuma.

Haha, I was down there soon after it was made public members of Kabrinskia were making frequent contact with the Zuma.  Your ambassadors just sat there threatening and insulting Haktoo.  It was not well received.  Not surprised they said they didn't make contact.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: egamma on May 09, 2012, 05:47:41 PM
How much more limited of a war do you want?) was going to provoke 10,000 CS of Zuma.

For the record--since the war declaration, how many CS of Terran troops have the Zuma destroyed?
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on May 09, 2012, 05:59:58 PM
I expect craziness from Allison.

I didn't expect the Zuma GM to play along.

We knew long before the war that Allison had frequent contact with the Zuma. We periodically tried to interrupt her travels there. We even sent an ambassador of our own (who got no response; dunno why). We just didn't think that a very limited war (I mean, seriously: a war with no takeovers and explicit promise of the survival of the enemy from the get-go, as well as a pledge to never escalate conflict unless the other does so first. We didn't even invade until invaded. How much more limited of a war do you want?) was going to provoke 10,000 CS of Zuma.

What you call a limited war is a 3 on 1 gang bang to those on the receiving end of it.  Especially since Terran and Kabrinskia were fairly evenly matched to start with.  All you wanted to do was humiliate Allison with a guaranteed victory for Terran by bringing in the rest of the moot. And as you just admitted you tried numerous times to stop Allison fro speaking with the Zuma.  Now that the Zuma have chosen a side in the conflict, Terran and her allies whine about it.

Asylon has pulled out of the war now. Barca seems to have its own problems internally. Terran forces have disappeared from scout reports.  either Terran is pulling out of the war as well or they are moving through Asylon regions to attack from the west (which will pull Asylon back into the war unless they are willing to let us chase down Terran forces in Asylon regions.  Though I doubt that they will allow that. And that will be enough to get Astrum involved in the war. so I hope so see Terran forces attacking from the west soon.  Then we can turn this into a real war.  with real consequences.

 
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Sacha on May 09, 2012, 06:04:56 PM
Many of us on the Western half not in SA had no idea who she was until the Caerwyn war and talk about Astrum's colony.  Still have no idea who this Brom fellow is that people bring up on the forum.

If nobody told you about Crazy Allison and her hair-trigger schemes, your friends have been letting you down :p
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Indirik on May 09, 2012, 06:41:29 PM
Haha, I was down there soon after it was made public members of Kabrinskia were making frequent contact with the Zuma.  Your ambassadors just sat there threatening and insulting Haktoo.  It was not well received.  Not surprised they said they didn't make contact.

Oh, what's this? Some valid reason why the Zuma didn't talk all friendly-like to Terran? I am shocked. Shocked, I say! ::)
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on May 09, 2012, 06:50:33 PM
Asylon has ended anything. Its a ceasefire. We are waiting for something.

Oh and the Terran ambassador to the Zuma was extremely confrontational. Terran went from jewel in the crown with lots of sympathy to almost impossible to help without looking like dorkbags in the process. The whole set up before the Kabrinskian conflict was cut and dry, not this fiasco. They started a war on two fronts, you can finish a war on two fronts... Just never start there.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on May 09, 2012, 06:58:21 PM
Asylon has ended anything. Its a ceasefire. We are waiting for something.

Oh and the Terran ambassador to the Zuma was extremely confrontational. Terran went from jewel in the crown with lots of sympathy to almost impossible to help without looking like dorkbags in the process. The whole set up before the Kabrinskian conflict was cut and dry, not this fiasco. They started a war on two fronts, you can finish a war on two fronts... Just never start there.

For what, the Zuma to go away.

Who started a war on two fronts. Kabrinskia did not.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Graeth on May 09, 2012, 07:10:30 PM
For what, the Zuma to go away.

Go away to where?
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on May 09, 2012, 07:11:50 PM
Go away to where?

Hopefully Terran regions.... lol
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Vellos on May 09, 2012, 07:43:13 PM
Haha, I was down there soon after it was made public members of Kabrinskia were making frequent contact with the Zuma.  Your ambassadors just sat there threatening and insulting Haktoo.  It was not well received.  Not surprised they said they didn't make contact.

Except we didn't send "ambassadors" in the case I'm talking about. I know what you're referencing; when Eben and Quintus went. And Quintus insulted Haktoo (and got productive responses, actually: the only time anyone from Terran ever has. Lesson learned: insult Haktoo and you get productive responses), but Eben didn't.

But more recently (but still before the war) we sent another, and got no response. He didn't send any insults.

Asylon has ended anything. Its a ceasefire. We are waiting for something.

Oh and the Terran ambassador to the Zuma was extremely confrontational. Terran went from jewel in the crown with lots of sympathy to almost impossible to help without looking like dorkbags in the process. The whole set up before the Kabrinskian conflict was cut and dry, not this fiasco. They started a war on two fronts, you can finish a war on two fronts... Just never start there.

There isn't a war on two fronts. Nor a fiasco. How you can go from "We're invading Kabrinskia RIGHT NOW!" to "We're pulling out of the war!" in less than 24 hours, on multiple occasions, will remain amazing to me.

Oh, what's this? Some valid reason why the Zuma didn't talk all friendly-like to Terran? I am shocked. Shocked, I say! ::)

I'm not. We've never tried to be buddy-buddy with the Zuma.

What you call a limited war is a 3 on 1 gang bang to those on the receiving end of it.  Especially since Terran and Kabrinskia were fairly evenly matched to start with.

You mean when you surprise attacked our monster-clearing team?

All you wanted to do was humiliate Allison with a guaranteed victory for Terran by bringing in the rest of the moot.

You mean when we brought in less than half of one of our ally's armies, and D'Hara stayed out of it?

And as you just admitted you tried numerous times to stop Allison fro speaking with the Zuma.

We tried to prevent everyone from speaking with the Zuma. Why do you think we harassed and isolated Garret so much?

Asylon has pulled out of the war now. Barca seems to have its own problems internally. Terran forces have disappeared from scout reports.  either Terran is pulling out of the war as well or they are moving through Asylon regions to attack from the west (which will pull Asylon back into the war unless they are willing to let us chase down Terran forces in Asylon regions.  Though I doubt that they will allow that. And that will be enough to get Astrum involved in the war. so I hope so see Terran forces attacking from the west soon.  Then we can turn this into a real war.  with real consequences.

I think you have a very naive understanding of BM politics.

For the record--since the war declaration, how many CS of Terran troops have the Zuma destroyed?

Maybe about 500 CS. They attacked, we retreated, they only caught a straggler. If they were destroying our armies I wouldn't be complaining. I'd much prefer that, as I have said now at least 50 times.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on May 09, 2012, 07:50:06 PM
We havent pulled out anywhere, we are in ceasefire. You are fighting a war on two fronts, the Zuma and Kabrinskia. Remember how many times I told you not to start the war and then you did without alerting your allies? If I hadnt told Terran how to act you'd be ranting about Astroists right now and in a holy war. Be thankful Asylon has helped as much as we have. I hear they have elections in Republics... Thank the gods.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Vellos on May 09, 2012, 07:55:29 PM
We havent pulled out anywhere, we are in ceasefire. You are fighting a war on two fronts, the Zuma and Kabrinskia. Remember how many times I told you not to start the war and then you did without alerting your allies? If I hadnt told Terran how to act you'd be ranting about Astroists right now and in a holy war. Be thankful Asylon has helped as much as we have. I hear they have elections in Republics... Thank the gods.

Um, two fronts?

What on earth are you talking about?

We don't have a war on any front right now.

And... I'm not sure what you mean by "told Terran how to act." I don't even communicate most of your messages to the Senate.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Sacha on May 09, 2012, 07:59:27 PM
Divide et impera xD
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on May 09, 2012, 08:00:58 PM
And you wonder why you are in the position you are in now. All I did was criticise your diplomat from
Ages ago and you have exploded on me.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Graeth on May 09, 2012, 08:08:53 PM
Um, two fronts?

What on earth are you talking about?


You need to invest in better Ambassadors or spies.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Dante Silverfire on May 09, 2012, 08:32:10 PM
Here's the short version:

Allison is crazy, and controls Kabrinskia and has somehow managed to convince the Zuma to aid Kabrinskia if not directly, at the very least indirectly.

Brom is the Allison of Luria, and is now engaged to Allison, promising lots of fun and conflict for all nearby realms for the foreseeable future.

The Moot leaders I can guarantee have enough IC knowledge to figure out why the Zuma are acting the way that they are right now, but likely aren't communicating the right things to each other to do so. And yes, Terran's ruler won't be the one knowing this explicit information because he isn't making the right connections. (besides from the personal contact with Haktoo)

The main thing is though, some of this knowledge that I and others have is too important IC to share on the forums openly and so it is shared purely in IC channels. Frankly though, I wouldn't be surprised if Luria had a better idea of why the Zuma are doing what they are doing than the Moot. Even though the Moot has been provided much greater evidence as to the reasons.

Yes, I'm being cryptic, and no I'm not going to say what is truly going on, because frankly I don't think OOC complaints should be rewarded with IC knowledge and it would directly harm many characters' plans in game. If you want to figure out what is happening, it may be a decent idea for more communication to be taking place among the elders of the Moot perhaps?
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Sacha on May 09, 2012, 08:45:57 PM
Here's the short version:

Allison is crazy, and controls Kabrinskia and has somehow managed to convince the Zuma to aid Kabrinskia if not directly, at the very least indirectly.

Brom is the Allison of Luria


I hope you're just referring to the crazy part and nothing else ::)
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on May 09, 2012, 09:20:08 PM
And heres the shorter version...

Brom Brom Brom Brom... Brom...
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on May 09, 2012, 10:17:13 PM

You mean when you surprise attacked our monster-clearing team?

You mean when we brought in less than half of one of our ally's armies, and D'Hara stayed out of it?

We tried to prevent everyone from speaking with the Zuma. Why do you think we harassed and isolated Garret so much?

I think you have a very naive understanding of BM politics.

Surprise attack?  you declared war on us and we attacked you openly and you knew it was coming

You brought in troops from Barca and Asylon, just because Asylon did not enter Kabrinskia lands does not discount their troops

So you admit you did everything in your power to prevent anyone from speaking to the Zuma because you could not

Naive?  I doubt that
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Geronus on May 09, 2012, 10:53:13 PM
If they were destroying our armies I wouldn't be complaining. I'd much prefer that, as I have said now at least 50 times.

Really? You're saying that if they came after you, you wouldn't be complaining? Well, good news everybody! The solution to this problem is easier then we could have imagined!  ;D
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on May 09, 2012, 11:14:30 PM
Surprise attack?  you declared war on us and we attacked you openly and you knew it was coming

You brought in troops from Barca and Asylon, just because Asylon did not enter Kabrinskia lands does not discount their troops

So you admit you did everything in your power to prevent anyone from speaking to the Zuma because you could not

Naive?  I dou

bt that

Asylon was bound by an alliance for ages... They hardly dragged us in. Barca was the only one who came in by themselves. Kabrinskia had been causing problems for weeks if not months... Stop trying to make it seem like you guys just fell into Golden Farrow and have been bullief by the moot ever since. I know Allison.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Perth on May 09, 2012, 11:18:11 PM
And you wonder why you are in the position you are in now. All I did was criticise your diplomat from
Ages ago and you have exploded on me.

Who exploded on you? All Vellos did was ask what in the world you meant by "a war on two fronts" when we aren't even fighting on one front right now. And then ponder about how Glaumring can go from "Asylon is launching full scale invasion of Kabrinskia!" and you start posting stuff about how the war is about to get hot and then go "Aw, no we're going to sign a cease-fire" (you know, to halt all that fighting that's going on) in a like 24 hour span.

My guess: too much bloodfruit.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on May 09, 2012, 11:36:45 PM
Asylon was bound by an alliance for ages... They hardly dragged us in. Barca was the only one who came in by themselves. Kabrinskia had been causing problems for weeks if not months... Stop trying to make it seem like you guys just fell into Golden Farrow and have been bullief by the moot ever since. I know Allison.

Asylon honored their obligations, but to do that they had to get involved, I did not say they were wrong in doing so.

I agree with you about Barca.

No one is being bullied by the moot. ganged up on yes. as many have said that if you war one you war all the moot.  Terran said they wanted a limited war and brought in barca and forced or talked Asylon into joining in on a defensive mission.

The Cease Fire we have now is a good thing. and if barca backs out as well then I will speak loudly on keeping the war a one on one battle between Kabrinskia and Terran.

Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Marlboro on May 09, 2012, 11:44:28 PM
Really? You're saying that if they came after you, you wouldn't be complaining? Well, good news everybody! The solution to this problem is easier then we could have imagined!  ;D

Hey cool an OOC solution to an IC problem, just like you wanted!
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: JPierreD on May 09, 2012, 11:46:47 PM
Ah, if only Gorbag hadn't been executed by the same people he was trying to help...
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on May 10, 2012, 12:02:15 AM
Katayanna, I know you want the war to go one way . You have an idea of how it should be. But you forget one thing... Ahem, asides from myself Allison is the single most dangerous and tricky tactician on the map and no matter what you say or want I am not going to fight or do anything by text book. Thulsoma/Averoth and Caerwyn will be the only cake walk war you will have had. I wouldnt get too cocky yet... Im still very capable of changing everything.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Bjarnson on May 10, 2012, 12:11:06 AM
Here's the short version:

Allison is crazy, and controls Kabrinskia and has somehow managed to convince the Zuma to aid Kabrinskia if not directly, at the very least indirectly.

Brom is the Allison of Luria, and is now engaged to Allison, promising lots of fun and conflict for all nearby realms for the foreseeable future.

The Moot leaders I can guarantee have enough IC knowledge to figure out why the Zuma are acting the way that they are right now, but likely aren't communicating the right things to each other to do so. And yes, Terran's ruler won't be the one knowing this explicit information because he isn't making the right connections. (besides from the personal contact with Haktoo)

The main thing is though, some of this knowledge that I and others have is too important IC to share on the forums openly and so it is shared purely in IC channels. Frankly though, I wouldn't be surprised if Luria had a better idea of why the Zuma are doing what they are doing than the Moot. Even though the Moot has been provided much greater evidence as to the reasons.

Yes, I'm being cryptic, and no I'm not going to say what is truly going on, because frankly I don't think OOC complaints should be rewarded with IC knowledge and it would directly harm many characters' plans in game. If you want to figure out what is happening, it may be a decent idea for more communication to be taking place among the elders of the Moot perhaps?

I fully agree with this post, and I think i know things and reasons IC, but refuse to share it here aswell.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Chenier on May 10, 2012, 04:24:25 AM

Okay, maybe that was mostly Chenier complaining about both TMP (Too Much Peace, not Manifest Path) and the Daimons. Sorry.

Here's what I've been trying to say:

Have we seen wars decrease since TMP was removed? No, and I'd even argue the contrary happened. But mostly, at least now the realms in circumstances that make war unreasonable aren't getting [email protected]#$ed by game mechanics. I remain convinced that removing TMP was a good idea. Because if a realm at war getting ravaged by TMP isn't a clear enough indicator that the mechanic worked poorly, I have no idea what would be.

Also, Katayanna, I can't believe you actually believe any of the stuff you spout OOC. Allison went on to provoke a bunch of allied realms. Terran  declared war, sure, but that's because closed borders don't exist, and the move was fully justified. Furthermore, Kabrinskia was the one who attacked first. Terran has a allies. A bunch of them. And Allison went to disturb the hornet's nest.

However, instead of everyone going full on against Kabrinskia as our treaties would normally dictate, we held back in hopes of preventing escalations. Terran promised not to do takeovers. Asylon said she wouldn't enter Kabrinskia's lands. D'Hara has held back from participating as well. Barca, the poorest and most remote of all of Terran's allies, is the only one who sent true support.

Don't act like a victim, seriously. Allison sought war with all of her neighbors. The only reason everyone is holding back is because we don't feel like fighting Astrum. But Astrum doesn't scare us. We don't want to fight it, but if we stop holding back, we are quite confident in our ability to crush Kabrinskia and defeat whatever Astrum sends to save your sorry ass.

Allison is influential, but she has many enemies. Everywhere. And we aren't dumb like the north-westerners were.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Marlboro on May 10, 2012, 04:33:02 AM
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Chenier on May 10, 2012, 04:41:59 AM
And that cavalier attitude completely disappears once the Zuma show up.

And this should come as a shocker?. Nobody can defeat a force which has, as far as we know, infinite CS. Or maybe a finite limit which is still way above anyone's capacity to defeat.

I don't give a rat's ass about the 10 000CS up north. What I care about is the rest of the daimons they are holding back.

If we knew that they could be defeated, then we'd just mop them up too. Until then, I'd rather fight on all of SA at the same time than pick a fight with the lame GM army. 'cause I, like many others, didn't join Dwilight for player vs. npc action.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on May 10, 2012, 05:14:14 AM
Everything Cheneir said is awesome.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on May 10, 2012, 05:15:36 AM
Everything Cheneir said is awesome.

he is a master whiner.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Chenier on May 10, 2012, 05:23:27 AM
he is a master whiner.

You aren't bad yourself, continuously whining about how unfair it was for Terran's allies to come offer limited help after even dustole made it clear that Kabrinskia was the one who broke the treaties and provoked the war.

If Astrum joins in, do you think we'll go whine about how unfair that is?

Typically, the only people I've really seen enjoying the daimons are those who don't risk being invaded by them. It's painfully obvious that the only reason you are enjoying them is because they are giving you a personal advantage. To help you against this "unfair" war that nobody in the South was really looking for, 'cause even if some in Terran did want a conflict, Allison REALLY had to push a lot to finally get their senate to decide.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on May 10, 2012, 05:32:46 AM
Yeah and Asylon was content being awesome... 8)
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Velax on May 10, 2012, 06:09:45 AM
he is a master whiner.

It's true, but I wouldn't get too cocky, because you're coming off the same way yourself.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on May 10, 2012, 07:09:22 AM
It's true, but I wouldn't get too cocky, because you're coming off the same way yourself.

LOL.... I am just having fun with him....LOL
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Bjarnson on May 10, 2012, 10:43:10 AM
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Solari on May 10, 2012, 11:35:53 AM
Correction, My Duchy, the greatest and most beutiful Duchy of Asylon share borders with the Zuma lands at the moment, I get to stare into 20-30k of Zuma CS daily, and i STILL enjoy them. But I am one of the odd bunch in Asylon.

I eat breakfast 300 yards from 4000 Cubans, who are trained to kill me, so don't think for one second that you can come down here, flash your badge and make me nervous!

EDIT: I've just been told that I may have dated myself, so for those who don't know, it's a line from A Few Good Men.  :'(
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Solari on May 10, 2012, 11:44:54 AM
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Ehndras on May 10, 2012, 11:59:31 AM
I find this all very enlightening. Sadly, I was not here for the big battle. Perhaps my friends and I would have tipped the scales if I had seen that post on the Dwarf Fortress - Bay12 forum 'Other Games' section before. I get the feeling any little bit would have helped the Terran army at that point, heh.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Chenier on May 10, 2012, 01:40:11 PM
Neither of these estimations of Zuma military capability is correct.

That would be a tougher slog than the Zuma.

Yet here we are, several years after the founding of Dwilight, and the only thing that's been consistently true from day one is that the Zuma are in a pocket of SW Dwilight.

And how do you know? Because as far as I know, you're just guessing as I am. Tom and the Zuma GMs never gave the slightest hint that, if we were dissatisfied with the Zuma, military annihilation was an option.

And no, that has not been consistently true from day one. We didn't even know about the daimons 'till long after many colonization efforts. And we all tried to be friends with the Zuma when we learnt, but because of events that we were completely powerless over (a traitor who swears to do stuff for them and returns to be executed, without anyone ever informing us of a link between him and the Zuma, Vates leaving, some blatant forgery that the Zuma were stupid enough (or rather eager enough) to believe), relations with the Zuma have soured over the years. Because it's just way too easy for any outsider to go harm Zuma-Moot relations. If you ask me, the Zuma GM is tired of our whining OOC, and he's just looking for any excuse to bash on us IC.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Anaris on May 10, 2012, 01:44:49 PM
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Lorgan on May 10, 2012, 01:54:19 PM
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Chenier on May 10, 2012, 01:56:18 PM
If that were true, I think the Zuma GM would be completely justified.

However, I happen to know that it's not. I may not have Tom's word on the Zuma's purpose and longevity, but I do have the Zuma GM's OOC word on why they're doing what they're doing.

Forgive me for not giving much credit to that.

With careful thought and a minimum of intelligence, it's easy to justify one's IC actions that pursue one's OOC desires while covering it with IC "reasons".

With antecedents like the demand for an official scribe note link and going out of their way to "believe" the adventurer's forged letter (like the bullcrap about having a "room of truth", but obviously they only wanted to use it on some dude that is on the run instead of the hundreds of others who were witness to the event), my trust that the Zuma GM is acting of good faith is completely and irrevocably gone.

I want to give GMs the benefit of the doubt, because of course whining against them is inevitable and they do accept a burden by taking on the task. But with this particular GM, that's completely lost for me. I will not forgive him for the events surrounding that forged letter.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Anaris on May 10, 2012, 02:07:22 PM
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Solari on May 10, 2012, 02:08:37 PM
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Feylonis on May 10, 2012, 02:30:10 PM
I think it's kind of hard not to be suspicious of being misled when the Zuma seem to jump at any chance to fight Moot realms specifically, heh.

Thankfully, Asylon is not a Moot realm, woo.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Anaris on May 10, 2012, 02:37:18 PM
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: dustole on May 10, 2012, 02:54:26 PM
I am going to sound like Garret here...   The 'Moot has interacted very poorly with the Zuma.  It seems like no one took the time to learn about the Zuma or how to talk to them.  Glaumring posted Asylons RP to the Rulers of Dwilight.  He said and did things that I would never do in the presence of Haktoo.  He wasn't mean or insulting, but the Zuma aren't like humans so talking to them like other humans isn't the smartest thing to do. 



Also, it isn't exactly a secret and anyone who paid attention would realize this IG.  Why the Barcans let Brom keep the Aegis of the Zuma I will never understand.  Why no one in the 'Moot realized its importance I don't understand either.  I think that is because no one from the 'moot interacted directly with the Zuma... 

The Zuma have been looking for their lost unique item for RL years.  I believe that when Garret negotiated peace with Barca in exchange for those unique items he was in fact looking for the shield that I now have.  That is the one and only thing that the Zuma have ever said they wanted.  Haktoo told me to name my reward.  That is why she is coming to Golden Farrow.  I will give her the shield and hopefully get my reward. 

I think Garret played just about everyone who worked with the Zuma through him. 

In order to get the Aegis of the Zuma from Brom(still can't believe the 'Moot didn't snatch that up...)  Allison had to marry Brom, give him 25% of Golden Farrow /and/ make him Judge of Kabrinskia.  All for 1 unique item. 
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Brant on May 10, 2012, 02:59:24 PM
Quote
In order to get the Aegis of the Zuma from Brom(still can't believe the 'Moot didn't snatch that up...)  Allison had to marry Brom, give him 25% of Golden Farrow /and/ make him Judge of Kabrinskia.  All for 1 unique item. 

Nobody will ever say that Allison didn't have to personally sacrifice for her realm.  :D
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on May 10, 2012, 03:20:36 PM
I have no idea what you are talking about Dustole. Asylon has had long good relations with the Zuma and we discovered lots. The only times we had bad relations were when we dealt with Garrett. I have not dealt with the Zuma face to face for ages. I am not a priest I cannot travel
To the Zuma whenever I want. And for much of Asylons history we dealt with Caerwyn. We only recently had time to even deal with the Zuma.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Indirik on May 10, 2012, 03:26:34 PM
Anyone else see the contradictions in that post?
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: vonGenf on May 10, 2012, 03:34:41 PM
Nobody will ever say that Allison didn't have to personally sacrifice for her realm.  :D

Allison is also known to sacrifice her realm for her personality.  :D
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Vellos on May 10, 2012, 03:38:39 PM
I am going to sound like Garret here...   The 'Moot has interacted very poorly with the Zuma.  It seems like no one took the time to learn about the Zuma or how to talk to them.  Glaumring posted Asylons RP to the Rulers of Dwilight.  He said and did things that I would never do in the presence of Haktoo.  He wasn't mean or insulting, but the Zuma aren't like humans so talking to them like other humans isn't the smartest thing to do. 



Also, it isn't exactly a secret and anyone who paid attention would realize this IG.  Why the Barcans let Brom keep the Aegis of the Zuma I will never understand.  Why no one in the 'Moot realized its importance I don't understand either.  I think that is because no one from the 'moot interacted directly with the Zuma... 

The Zuma have been looking for their lost unique item for RL years.  I believe that when Garret negotiated peace with Barca in exchange for those unique items he was in fact looking for the shield that I now have.  That is the one and only thing that the Zuma have ever said they wanted.  Haktoo told me to name my reward.  That is why she is coming to Golden Farrow.  I will give her the shield and hopefully get my reward. 

I think Garret played just about everyone who worked with the Zuma through him. 

In order to get the Aegis of the Zuma from Brom(still can't believe the 'Moot didn't snatch that up...)  Allison had to marry Brom, give him 25% of Golden Farrow /and/ make him Judge of Kabrinskia.  All for 1 unique item.

None of that is new to me (though I'm sure it is to many players; dunno why you posted it here, I was under the impression it was fairly secret-ish).

But that's not relevant to anything we've been saying here.

Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Anaris on May 10, 2012, 04:01:47 PM
None of that is new to me (though I'm sure it is to many players; dunno why you posted it here, I was under the impression it was fairly secret-ish).

But that's not relevant to anything we've been saying here.

Um...beg pardon?

How is it not relevant? It sounds to me like he just explained at least 3/4 of the reasons behind all the things people have been saying there was no reason for aside from spite.

Good flipping grief, Vellos, what more do you want?
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on May 10, 2012, 04:04:12 PM
Um...beg pardon?

How is it not relevant? It sounds to me like he just explained at least 3/4 of the reasons behind all the things people have been saying there was no reason for aside from spite.

Good flipping grief, Vellos, what more do you want?

LOL

Maybe Vellos is afraid that the reward that She asks for is the total destruction of the moot......?

Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on May 10, 2012, 04:05:16 PM
LOL

Maybe Vellos is afraid that the reward that She asks for is the total destruction of the moot......?

Though politicly that would be a dumb thing to ask for. lol
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Sacha on May 10, 2012, 04:14:22 PM
Good thing Allison is [email protected]#$ [email protected]#$ing crazy, eh!
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on May 10, 2012, 04:16:36 PM
Good thing Allison is [email protected]#$ [email protected]#$ing crazy, eh!

Ya, she just may be crazy enough to ask for just that..... lol
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on May 10, 2012, 04:20:11 PM
personally I would ask that the Zuma goto war with Asylon and Barca so we could get that one on one war that she wanted. But only time will tell.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Brant on May 10, 2012, 04:28:55 PM
She gets any wish at all?


The bloodstars will get a schism.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on May 10, 2012, 04:30:22 PM
She gets any wish at all?


The bloodstars will get a schism.

That is what the Zuma said.

But I doubt she will do that. She is crazy, but I hope not that crazy.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Indirik on May 10, 2012, 06:04:00 PM
I don't think that a schism is what Allison would want right now. And how the Zuma would cause that to happen is beyond me...
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: dustole on May 10, 2012, 06:34:25 PM
Im talking about it openly now because when I told glaumring ooc on fhe forum he told asylon IC and now nobles are contacting me IG about it to allison.  So everyone might as well know...
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on May 10, 2012, 06:52:50 PM
Anyone else see the contradictions in that post?

why? I had two Zuman ambassadors, it wasnt until a shOrt time ago I could afford to spare them in Zuma lands all the time. Asylon had like 13 nobles until very recently. Allison is a priestess, she isnt involved in combat, no monsters attacking Kabrinskia like Asylon back in the day. Kabrinskia has had it easy.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Perth on May 10, 2012, 06:53:52 PM
My thing is that like the one major point of emphasis we have received over and over from the Zuma is how humans mean nothing to them and how they care so little for our ways and how we are basically like little ants to them, etc. etc.

And now they are involved in major political wheeling and dealing with humans in order to get... a shield?

Why don't they just [email protected]#$ing take it from you?

Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on May 10, 2012, 06:54:35 PM
Im talking about it openly now because when I told glaumring ooc on fhe forum he told asylon IC and now nobles are contacting me IG about it to allison.  So everyone might as well know...

Yeah I talked to my council and a few things here and there. Its not a big deal the news would come out soon anyways.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Anaris on May 10, 2012, 06:55:44 PM
And now they are involved in major political wheeling and dealing with humans in order to get... a shield?

Why don't they just [email protected]#$ing take it from you?

Mechanically, that's very difficult.

Not completely impossible, but there's no certain way to do so.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Perth on May 10, 2012, 07:01:39 PM
Mechanically, that's very difficult.

Not completely impossible, but there's no certain way to do so.

Still, it just strikes me odd that the Zuma, who invaded Terran on a whim because they were so offended that someone in the 'Moot could have written a letter that disrespected them, would upon discovering some human has their sacred item that they want so badly would not just say "WTF we're gonna ROFLSTOMP you."

So, catchign wind of someone calling the Zuma animals in a random letter is enough to evoke immediate daimon invasion, but possessing their sacred and much desired artifact is not?


Whateverrrrrrr...
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on May 10, 2012, 07:03:48 PM
Still, it just strikes me odd that the Zuma, who invaded Terran on a whim because they were so offended that someone in the 'Moot could have written a letter that disrespected them, would upon discovering some human has their sacred item that they want so badly would not just say "WTF we're gonna ROFLSTOMP you."

So, catchign wind of someone calling the Zuma animals in a random letter is enough to evoke immediate daimon invasion, but possessing their sacred and much desired artifact is not?


Whateverrrrrrr...

why goto war over an item that is being given you them.... Why waist their resources?
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Anaris on May 10, 2012, 07:06:22 PM
Still, it just strikes me odd that the Zuma, who invaded Terran on a whim because they were so offended that someone in the 'Moot could have written a letter that disrespected them, would upon discovering some human has their sacred item that they want so badly would not just say "WTF we're gonna ROFLSTOMP you."

So, catchign wind of someone calling the Zuma animals in a random letter is enough to evoke immediate daimon invasion, but possessing their sacred and much desired artifact is not?


Whateverrrrrrr...

A few things:

Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Zuma GM on May 10, 2012, 07:59:13 PM
No. Our original declaration was that we would not invade unless we were invaded.

I'm not lying. I'm telling the truth.

I asked why Haktoo is defending Kabrinskia. The answer I got is that Haktoo is defending Kabrinskia. That's not an explanation.

You asked why Fang Fang was in Demyansk, you were told why, and it was more than just "we're defending Kabrinskia" so again I ask you to stop lying. I take it you accept you were lying about the unannounced part as you chose not to try to spin that into anything else in your response.
If you are speculating, then please, all I'm asking is to make that clear in your postings rather than stating things as if they are fact which will influence other people's opinions who have not had any direct involvement.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Dante Silverfire on May 10, 2012, 08:02:30 PM
Still, it just strikes me odd that the Zuma, who invaded Terran on a whim because they were so offended that someone in the 'Moot could have written a letter that disrespected them, would upon discovering some human has their sacred item that they want so badly would not just say "WTF we're gonna ROFLSTOMP you."

So, catchign wind of someone calling the Zuma animals in a random letter is enough to evoke immediate daimon invasion, but possessing their sacred and much desired artifact is not?


Whateverrrrrrr...

They DID try to just invade immediately. I had told the Zuma I wanted to give them the shield but that Barca was preventing me from doing so. That's when Barca was informed that they were about to get a visit from a daimon invasion force.

However, in order to protect Barca from that, and because Allison would have a much better use for the shield and on much better terms I turned it over to her, based upon the terms set forth here. Pretty good deal on both ends as far as I can tell. Especially since it seems Barca's ruler hasn't told ANYONE in the Moot what was really going on.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Zuma GM on May 10, 2012, 08:07:55 PM
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Zuma GM on May 10, 2012, 08:10:04 PM
That is what the Zuma said.

But I doubt she will do that. She is crazy, but I hope not that crazy.

Please remember when you give your facts that you are getting your information I assume from Allison so, as I have said to others, unless you heard it direct from the Zuma yourself, please try to make that clear in your postings, otherwise everyone just gets wound up about speculations.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Zuma GM on May 10, 2012, 08:15:53 PM
Still, it just strikes me odd that the Zuma, who invaded Terran on a whim because they were so offended that someone in the 'Moot could have written a letter that disrespected them, would upon discovering some human has their sacred item that they want so badly would not just say "WTF we're gonna ROFLSTOMP you."

So, catchign wind of someone calling the Zuma animals in a random letter is enough to evoke immediate daimon invasion, but possessing their sacred and much desired artifact is not?


Whateverrrrrrr...

Get over the letter. That was explained in game and on the forums and I still stand by the actions that I took at that time.
The Zuma discovered in game that the item was held by Brom when we saw a battle report that he fought in as part of Barca. Almost immediately diplomatic relations dropped from peace to neutral and the only reason there wasn't war was because of in game interactions involving the ruler of Barca, and then Brom changing realms to Kabrinskia and Allison getting in contact straight away saying she wanted to give it to us. Why would I go to war against someone who just wants to hand the item to us?
You don't know everything that goes on between everyone on Dwilight and just make assumptions about things you're not happy with. There has been a lot of effort by some players and I thank all of those involved.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Kellaine on May 10, 2012, 08:21:32 PM
Please remember when you give your facts that you are getting your information I assume from Allison so, as I have said to others, unless you heard it direct from the Zuma yourself, please try to make that clear in your postings, otherwise everyone just gets wound up about speculations.

I merely took my information from Dustole's forum post and speculated that she was not so crazy as to actually do what I suggested.  I meant no harm, just having fun with it.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Solari on May 10, 2012, 08:31:11 PM
Yeah I talked to my council and a few things here and there. Its not a big deal the news would come out soon anyways.

I'm not sure you actually understand what it means to be a "good" player in the game. Taking OOC info and dumping it into the game, particularly something this important, is the opposite, and lame. 
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Dante Silverfire on May 10, 2012, 08:32:24 PM
Well I guess that does explain Asylon's changing position in this war.
Title: Re: The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict
Post by: Indirik on May 10, 2012, 08:32:36 PM
Aaaaaaand we're done with this thread...