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BattleMaster => Locals => Far East Island => Topic started by: Velax on July 16, 2012, 07:31:33 PM
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Or an attempt, anyway. It's certainly got things fired up in the Ruler's Channel.
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WAR! WE MUST HAVE WAR! THE BLOOD GOD DEMANDS IT!
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Wait, what? So, there's a possibility of a near future war not involving any gang-bang to OW? Sweet!
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Lame! We'll just have to make sure OW is wiped out before we start anything serious.
(Still haven't heard anything about this IC though.)
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I have.
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Wait, what? So, there's a possibility of a near future war not involving any gang-bang to OW? Sweet!
Kind of funny, when i read about assassination i just wondered "there goes OW again..."
Peace!
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Lame! We'll just have to make sure OW is wiped out before we start anything serious.
(Still haven't heard anything about this IC though.)
Nothing at all? An assassin was caught trying to murder Galiard while he was on a state visit to Kindara. This is complicated by the fact that the assassin was a member of Kindara, and kinsman to the Kindaran duke that was hosting the visit.
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Oh that. I thought you meant something more current. That was, what, 4 days ago?
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Yes. Yes, it was.
Still a lot of back and forth in the Ruler's Channel, with little resolution in sight.
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I hadn't really heard anything about it since it happened. I had assumed it was mostly a non-event, or already resolved. But I see that Caspius just did a message dump. Kind of entertaining.
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Yeah, war seems pretty likely at this point. Be interesting to see who it ends up involving, exactly.
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Yes. Yes, it was.
Still a lot of back and forth in the Ruler's Channel, with little resolution in sight.
I got your resolution right here!
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Whelp, I'm sure that we can find time to take care of OW as well as Kindara. The big obstacle at the moment is coming up with a name for the new colony - the Sartanian Grand Duchy of Sasrhas perhaps?
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I wouldnt get your hopes up.
Not everyone wants to be stuck with you stuffy Sartanian types this far south!
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This is not the war I expected to be having right now.
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This is not the war I expected to be having right now.
No. No, it was not.
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Should I be worried that you are suggesting you know what war I did think I would be involved in now?
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Should I be worried that you are suggesting you know what war I did think I would be involved in now?
Hey, I was also expecting wars. Maybe not the one you were expecting but this was literally the very last possible combination of combatants I could have predicted.
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I can safely say that very few people did, and that if it actually results in war, it will be deeply ironic.
We are probably thinking of different possible wars, though. I'm not surprised that others were planning things as well.
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I can safely say that very few people did, and that if it actually results in war, it will be deeply ironic.
We are probably thinking of different possible wars, though. I'm not surprised that others were planning things as well.
Not exactly like your not-so-secret planned war isn't still possible in the current political climate.
*cough*
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Huh. Interesting.
Regardless of if you're thinking about the same one as me, I'd rather not be fighting two foes at once.
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I can safely say that very few people did, and that if it actually results in war, it will be deeply ironic.
We are probably thinking of different possible wars, though. I'm not surprised that others were planning things as well.
Best laid plans and all. It sure wasnt expected, but I cant say it hasnt been close once before or even bound to happen eventually.
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This is not the war I expected to be having right now.
That's because you took too long to get your war started. If you discuss something for weeks and months on end without actually doing anything, there's a pretty big chance something unexpected is going to disrupt your plans.
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Actually this particular war has not been in the plans for very long. I think about three weeks? I'm not sure exactly.
It's certainly been contemplated before, actually almost happened before, but this is the first it's been seriously considered for quite a while.
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Bah! Someone shoot me a PM about what's going on, I can't take the suspense. I want to move already so I can get back in the game!!!
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Actually this particular war has not been in the plans for very long. I think about three weeks? I'm not sure exactly.
It's certainly been contemplated before, actually almost happened before, but this is the first it's been seriously considered for quite a while.
Even with the "most likely" war happening soon, your war is still possible to wage now. In fact, it would probably be the VERY best time to do it. No allies, no enemies, just a good o'l 1 vs 1.
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Unless, of course, we get dragged into the 'most likely war.'
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Anyone send you that PM yet, Bedwyr?
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Unless, of course, we get dragged into the 'most likely war.'
For a realm that wants to punish the dishonorable - to the point where you turn on one ally - you do a poor job at picking the right side. That is, if you take the side I think you'll take.
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Meh. Like most wars, both sides are at fault to a degree. The assassination attempt was by a Kindaran, and a relative of the host duke. And they were, perhaps, a bit slow to punish the assassin. And Galiard is obviously the wounded party, but his demands went much too far. Demanding that Kindara's ruler crawl on his knees into Cathay's palace and beg forgiveness? That wasn't ever going to happen. If someone demanded that of Velax, he'd declare war on them just on principle.
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What Velax said.
Edmund was attempting to make amends, Galiard demanded entirely unreasonable things. Yes, Cathay was the wronged party, they're also the ones that turned something that didn't need to be a war into a war.
And so we stand by our allies.
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I guess this is how these threads go:
Blah blah justification for whatever my character is doing blah blah why he's right and everyone else is wrong blah.
Dude, forget that. Why do I care OOCly whether Kindara is great, sort of bad, or mostly bad? I had fun while Galiard was visiting. I was sorry that more of Cathay's nobles who came along didn't participate in the RP but I keep hearing 'well, FEI isn't SMA' so I guess that's to be expected now. Edmund is a great character and Rosalind too. What's happening in character is an entirely plausible scenario that might have happened in the middle ages, if you care about that sort of thing. Except that poor Victor probably would've had a better chance at his (brother's?) palace of murdering a guest than he did in-game.
I don't even know what yard stick to use to try and explain OOCly if Galiard is 'right' in a 21st century Internet forum posting, and even if I did I'd just be making this more 'us players versus them players.' He's a curmudgeonly old bastard who thinks that anybody born in the last 35 IC years has no idea what custom, chivalry, or manners are. In his lifetime he's executed two Dukes and un-Duked two more for various offenses real or imagined and he's banished lords because their knights were misbehaving. If I played BM like a team sport as seems to be more common these days, he'd be a lot more accommodating, Cathay would be more boring, and he'd never promote or support boat-rockers like William or Caspius.
So to whatever extent is possible, no matter how much Galiard bloviates to the contrary, I hope Zonasa and Kindara have a good time and enjoy themselves as I hope Cathay does too!
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I guess this is how these threads go:
Blah blah justification for whatever my character is doing blah blah why he's right and everyone else is wrong blah.
Dude, forget that. Why do I care OOCly whether Kindara is great, sort of bad, or mostly bad? I had fun while Galiard was visiting. I was sorry that more of Cathay's nobles who came along didn't participate in the RP but I keep hearing 'well, FEI isn't SMA' so I guess that's to be expected now. Edmund is a great character and Rosalind too. What's happening in character is an entirely plausible scenario that might have happened in the middle ages, if you care about that sort of thing. Except that poor Victor probably would've had a better chance at his (brother's?) palace of murdering a guest than he did in-game.
I don't even know what yard stick to use to try and explain OOCly if Galiard is 'right' in a 21st century Internet forum posting, and even if I did I'd just be making this more 'us players versus them players.' He's a curmudgeonly old bastard who thinks that anybody born in the last 35 IC years has no idea what custom, chivalry, or manners are. In his lifetime he's executed two Dukes and un-Duked two more for various offenses real or imagined and he's banished lords because their knights were misbehaving. If I played BM like a team sport as seems to be more common these days, he'd be a lot more accommodating, Cathay would be more boring, and he'd never promote or support boat-rockers like William or Caspius.
So to whatever extent is possible, no matter how much Galiard bloviates to the contrary, I hope Zonasa and Kindara have a good time and enjoy themselves as I hope Cathay does too!
If it wasn't for Galiard, I wouldn't still be in Cathay.
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I doubt anyone's saying, "This is horrible, we don't want war, Cathay is evil." It's a perfect excuse for a war, which the south has been lacking for quite some time. Arcaea was one of the realms most recently at war and already some of my nobles are getting itchy. I don't know how you southerners go for six months or a year with no war at all.
But we are still entitled to have an opinion on the severity of the demands made of Kindara.
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It's quite all right if you want to say that. I think my problem with these threads is that they make it appear that the players necessarily want the same things as the characters and that they do the "right" thing by some standard that could be agreed upon on an internet forum.
As a player I was handed an opportunity for (at minimum) some drama and (more likely) conflict that FEI has been lacking. As a character, Galiard wants what's best for Galiard according to his Galiard-world-lens. Those two things do not always agree with each other.
It is obviously a rollicking good time when you have a despicable character AND a douchebag player and you can mop the floor with them. That's not the case here, is all.
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The problem is that many of the current rulers are actually reasonable people, and reasonable people generally find reasonable solutions to problems. Usually, a war is not reasonable for both realms at once, if it is even reasonable for either of them.
As for the current (nearly) war, reasonableness of rulers might yet again nix it. Which Morgan would very much like, because he wants a war, just not THIS war. We were actually only a few days away from instigating the other war before this happened. Though this incident might actually help us some if it is resolved.
As a player, I have mixed feelings about if this is the better war or not, though it probably is in many ways. IC, though, Morgan thinks the other war would be much better for Zonasa. And it probably would, but not definitely, however, I know things that Morgan doesn't. Based on Morgan's knowledge, war with Cathay would be a bad thing, a certain other war would be a good thing.
EDIT: Reasonableness appears it will not rear its ugly head in one of the people who would need to be reasonable. So war is almost certain to go ahead. This is probably a good thing. I honestly don't know how this will end, but I do think it will probably change the shape of the FEI, unless Zonasa and Kindara somehow bring a very quick end to it. But I really do think it will be escalated to eventually include everyone.
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Yes, everyone will get involved. That's a foregone conclusion.
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Hey, the Cathay state visit was a lot of fun. And honestly, so is this, at least for the player. Kindara hasnt had a war since the last Cathay and half the realm has been complaining that we needed a war since that one ended. I havent been tied in roleplays or anything this exciting in a long, long time.
Not to say this is the war Edmund wanted, but Edmund's gotta do what Edmund's gotta do and Kindara and Edmund are both angry.
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Mmm... war. I'm all for war. As far as the "We're right, they're wrong" stuff, everyone thinks their side is justified when you go to war. If not, you get protests and rebellions. Either the war ends, or those who don't agree with it switch sides, sometimes involuntarily.
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Yes, everyone will get involved. That's a foregone conclusion.
I'm actually not sure that's completely foregone. I'm hoping I'm wrong, though.
Well, we'll see.
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I'm actually not sure that's completely foregone. I'm hoping I'm wrong, though.
Well, we'll see.
How could Zonasa join the war on Kindara's side and then not expect everything to escalate further? Obviously now it's totally foregone.
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Oh, I fully expected it to escalate farther. I'm just not entirely sure which realms will join our side, and how quickly.
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Oh, I fully expected it to escalate farther. I'm just not entirely sure which realms will join our side, and how quickly.
Well, you know who's not joining your side, that's for sure.
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Yes, everyone will get involved. That's a foregone conclusion.
Sounds like a world war one thing is happening, someone gets assassinated (in this case only an attempt) and it escalates to include a bunch of countries (realms).
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Well, you know who's not joining your side, that's for sure.
No surprise there. I'd have been shocked if Sorraine didnt declare for Cathay. It was obvious from the get go who would side with who. Even Edmund didnt harbor any illusions about that bit.
Aenilia has mostly laid out their stance, though it might change a bit. That only leaves Ohnar West at this point and they'll probably stay neutral and I dont blame them one bit for that.
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Sounds like a world war one thing is happening
Bags being the UK! Although given our geographical position, we might end up being more like Russia. Hopefully without the mid-war revolution.
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World War One? That's a ridiculous comparison.
First of all, the country which plotted the assassination was the same one that declared war, which would be an absolutely !@#$ing absurd in any real international political situation. It's just nonsense.
Second, it was a larger country which conspired to assassinate the sovereign ruler of a smaller country, not the other way around. The list of demands the Austrians gave to the Serbs was strict, but it was not designed to incite war; rather, the intention was to make Serbia a puppet state so they could control the Black Sea shipping routes, hence why Russia became involved. Germany took out France so it could focus on the Russian flank unperturbed, England joined because of France, and America joined because it was profitable.
However right or wrong some of the reasons for the first World War seemed, they all came from logic. This war in the Far East was only started because everyone was bored with peace.
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However right or wrong some of the reasons for the first World War seemed, they all came from logic. This war in the Far East was only started because everyone was bored with peace.
Well, that is kind of logical. After all, this is a game. And who wants to play a game to be bored?
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Well, that is kind of logical. After all, this is a game. And who wants to play a game to be bored?
I agree personally. I feel that sometimes in this game we have to make over-the-top silly decisions to get things moving. It might be hard for characters to justify the decisions sometimes, but that's why I find playing somewhat over-the-top characters works for the game since it forces a variety of reactions from players.
That's probably the same reason why characters like Victor end up doing the things they do.
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Well, I guess they don't call it "Battlemaster" for nothing. Still, it's difficult to roleplay so far outside the boundaries of what's realistically human.
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Real-world rulers often had ambitions that don't make sense from a gamey/rational perspective, because they are overblown. They also often had a ton less information available than players in BM. So they take risks and make mistakes.
Example, in CK2 I decided to play a "small" game, so I'm just the Count of Leicester. Through some scheming I came upon a weak claim to the duchy of Normandie - and decided to press it while everyone was busy fighting everyone else. I forgot that my king, William the Conqueror, is, of course, from Normandie and allied. Ooops. I didn't even get to the channel, much less to Normandie.
Things like that happened all the time. They should happen more often in BM.
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Well, I guess they don't call it "Battlemaster" for nothing. Still, it's difficult to roleplay so far outside the boundaries of what's realistically human.
One could argue that it isn't justified, but I wouldn't say Kindara's war isn't human. Pride, I think, is very, very human. A quick look at their history and anyone can see that they don't deal with disrespect very well, perceived or otherwise. They conquered C'thonia because their ruler got a bit too mouthy. They conquered Cathay(v1) because their ruler may have told someone to intimidate a Kindaran duke with impossibly hollow threats, before he even became ruler. So when the king of Cathay(v2) demanded that the king of Kindara to walk into Anacan and on his knees grovel before him and his court...yes, the Kindarans stopped feeling sorry pretty fast. And there are plenty of good IC arguments to be made, and are being made, against that response. Characters are being consistently played, realms are being consistently played, so let's not label it as some impossibly contrived meta-fest.
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They conquered C'thonia because their ruler got a bit too mouthy.
To be fair, I think everyone felt that way about C'thonia.
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To be fair, I think everyone felt that way about C'thonia.
Well they were very mouthy.
Pride, I think, is very, very human.
Exactly! Kindara is a very prideful realm and most of the leading nobles tend to be pretty prideful themselves. Its as much a failing as it is a good quality, but that's just the facts.
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Exactly! Kindara is a very prideful realm and most of the leading nobles tend to be pretty prideful themselves. Its as much a failing as it is a good quality, but that's just the facts.
And that's what makes BM a great game. We have entire realms with character. I know entire games where you'd be hard pressed to find anyone with that.
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However right or wrong some of the reasons for the first World War seemed, they all came from logic. This war in the Far East was only started because everyone was bored with peace.
You have heard of the Pig War, yes? And all sorts of other ridiculous wars throughout history? Including the various infamous invasions of Russia from the west?
What I think BM needs more of (and what I tried to introduce, with limited success, and will be damn well doing better when I come back to the game, mwa ha ha!) is greater ideologies. Don't fight to make your realm more powerful: Fight because that realm uses torture on nobles! Fight because someone implied that your family has commoners in it (especially if it does)! Fight because you want to unify an entire region, religion, or continent! Fight to try something new that no one has done before! Make honour really mean something, carry grudges that last lifetimes, don't settle for abdications when you can press for skulls, and make your mark on the history of the (game) world!
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Oh yeah, on that last - I think the religious game is missing one piece of the puzzle: Making a religion illegal. By the lord. With a certain effect on the followers (dropping them considerably until a small bunch of fanatics is left).
That might give religions a push to use their influence to start a war. And realm a way to "fight back" against foreign realm religions (sadly the standard).
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that would make paganism the norm.. due to a lack of religions that actually "work" in that it's not "artificial", you have people actually trying to do it properly, etc?
i still maintain we need some way to do cross continent religions.. so people can feed off existing religions...
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that would make paganism the norm.. due to a lack of religions that actually "work" in that it's not "artificial", you have people actually trying to do it properly, etc?
i still maintain we need some way to do cross continent religions.. so people can feed off existing religions...
You can. Just name it the same and use the same Wiki pages.
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not exactly the same thing
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Okay, the founder can emigrate and start the same religion on another island.
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Because the Pope really went from continent to continent to establish the RCC there.
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So have someone else do it. Someone had to build the first church, and give the first sermon. I'm not really sure what game mechanics support you reaaly want, or even need.
For me, I like the separation between islands. Let each island have their own flavor and style. Having the same religions on each island would be as boring as having the same realms on each island.
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Which is what the CoH HAS been doing. However, it'd still be nice if there was some sort of formal link between the branches game-wise.
And I have to disagree. Seeing transcontinental religions and even empires is interesting. I'd love to see some Empire formed on one continent have colonies/branches led by a Prince or Viceroy on another.
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Which is what the CoH HAS been doing. However, it'd still be nice if there was some sort of formal link between the branches game-wise.
And I have to disagree. Seeing transcontinental religions and even empires is interesting. I'd love to see some Empire formed on one continent have colonies/branches led by a Prince or Viceroy on another.
We are playing a medieval low fantasy game not a colonial game :p
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They had colonies and inter-married royal family-led mini-empires here and there. :-) That was more from marriage boons and alliances and such though.
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when you deport a priest or the priest emigrate, he remains a priest of that religion, for starters.
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when you deport a priest or the priest emigrate, he remains a priest of that religion, for starters.
OK, first of all?
No.
Secondly, no.
And thirdly, no, uh-uh, wrong, bzzt! try again.
You can't deport priests. Priests can't emigrate. This is why.
It would be fundamentally impossible for a priest to remain a priest of the same religion if we allowed him to emigrate, because the religions are stored in databases specific to the continent. The game doesn't even know how to look for his religion.
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hello.... that's a wish, of what a global religion would allow, not what happens now.
they can't emigrate as is because they have to flip out to another class before they can do so. (which is kind of stupid, albeit understandable given restrictions)
it might not be possible atm because the game doesn't know anything about it, that does not mean it should not be explored. if the infrastructure is there, then it would be possible. assuming it's desired at the end of the day.
i think a priest (founder no less) got deported in an earlier invasion. in any case, it would be something possible, if there's a framework for global religion.
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Time for all humans of BM to believe the Blood Stars...
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No thank you. That'd be boring and, quite frankly, the Bloodstars can go burn.
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No thank you. That'd be boring and, quite frankly, the Bloodstars can go burn.
For the bloodstars are merely a pale reflection of the glory the the Divine!
Honestly, the continental crusades could prove more interesting, imo. That is one of tue few reasons I wish our continents were more linked.
Maybe one day.
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I can just see an entire group of nobles emigrating en-masse to a new continent, setting up their temples, and being all irritating with their strange traditions and beliefs. :-P Forge a new empire!
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There is plenty of island left for any religion to conquer, without the need to go looking for new islands to conquer. I, for one, would be dead set against any kind of change like that, if it were even remotely possible.
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T'was a joke. :-P
It has nothing to do with changes, really. Any group of nobles can quite easily say "F*ck it" and mass emigrate to a new continent - that requires no new mechanics. They can also quite easily bring their religion over - its called a Notepad. >_>
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It has nothing to do with changes, really. Any group of nobles can quite easily say "F*ck it" and mass emigrate to a new continent - that requires no new mechanics. They can also quite easily bring their religion over - its called a Notepad. >_>
Which is perfectly fine. And that is how it should be done. (Assuming it is done at all.) I see no reason to involve game mechanics in it.
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Assassination! This time a different one...
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That timing was absolutely perfect.
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The only thing that would have made it better would be a lighting bolt striking Thain followed by a Roleplay message from Sartan himself...
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The only thing that would have made it better would be a lighting bolt striking Thain followed by a Roleplay message from Sartan himself...
Which will never happen ;)
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/me high fives Lorgan.
Unintentional timing is the best!
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Anyone want to fill me in?
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Thain, the guy who killed off Theuderik, got severely wounded by an assassin.
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\o/
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Amusingly, the assassination came just minutes after Thain sent a series of letters defending himself against accusations of Theuderik's murder and disobeying orders.
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And how he acted as a Follower of his Faith and that it thus did not involve Arcaea.
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I've just been banned from PoZ for assassinating Thain. ::)
Goddamn wimps. I'm gonna riot. >:(
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And I've just saved us from another long drawn out public trial.
Cronyism is a great thing, people.
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And I've just saved us from another long drawn out public trial.
Cronyism is a great thing, people.
Yeah but gained you 1 and a half day of excessive whining and the eternal hatred of an infil who likes stabbing Order people... Mr. I-have-140-men-at-all-times. *grumbles* :)
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If you need absolution, my priest is nearby :)
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Yeah but gained you 1 and a half day of excessive whining and the eternal hatred of an infil who likes stabbing Order people... Mr. I-have-140-men-at-all-times. *grumbles* :)
Yes, but how long did you think an Order person was going to let you stay in the realm once it was known you like stabbing Order people?
You do do the excessive whining very well, though. Morgan is very sad you couldn't have been used for other uses.
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Convert to the one true faith, Lefanis! Embrace the Divine! Not that failure of a religion that's not even on its home continent anymore >.>
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I was surprised at Morgan's reaction to the assassination and the message I sent. I was expecting more along the lines of, "We're at war, deal with it."
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I was surprised at Morgan's reaction to the assassination and the message I sent. I was expecting more along the lines of, "We're at war, deal with it."
Me too. I expected maybe a slap on the wrist because apparently murder is heavily frowned upon in PoZ but I really didn't think I was doing anything wrong..
Maybe in retrospect I shouldn't have called Thain a foul beast who deserves a slow death when Morgan questioned me about it. :)
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Yeah but gained you 1 and a half day of excessive whining and the eternal hatred of an infil who likes stabbing Order people... Mr. I-have-140-men-at-all-times. *grumbles* :)
You will no doubt be welcome in Sorraine.
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I was surprised at Morgan's reaction to the assassination and the message I sent. I was expecting more along the lines of, "We're at war, deal with it."
Hey, you asked a simple question, he gave you an honest answer. Zonasa does not in fact condone murder.
Everything after he gave you that answer was due to the fact he found out that it was Thain that was attacked, and Hermik's answer to his questions.
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Me too. I expected maybe a slap on the wrist because apparently murder is heavily frowned upon in PoZ but I really didn't think I was doing anything wrong..
Maybe in retrospect I shouldn't have called Thain a foul beast who deserves a slow death when Morgan questioned me about it. :)
You were going to get less than a slap on the wrist until you told Morgan that, really.
Morgan is quite pragmatic and totally willing to ignore the truth unless you make it blindingly obvious.
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Hey, you asked a simple question, he gave you an honest answer. Zonasa does not in fact condone murder.
Everything after he gave you that answer was due to the fact he found out that it was Thain that was attacked, and Hermik's answer to his questions.
I'm not complaining. Velax was quite happy with the ban. But I think this whole religious mess will get much worse before it gets better.
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You were going to get less than a slap on the wrist until you told Morgan that, really.
Morgan is quite pragmatic and totally willing to ignore the truth unless you make it blindingly obvious.
Heh. If there's one thing I enjoy playing my infiltrator, it's making things blindingly obvious. :)
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Not that failure of a religion that's not even on its home continent anymore >.>
Huh? We have nothing to do with the Way of the Dragon that was on BT. Only our names are common :-\
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Huh? We have nothing to do with the Way of the Dragon that was on BT. Only our names are common :-\
Still is lame. Convert to the true faith. Join the Order, we have cookies.
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Still is lame. Convert to the true faith. Join the Order, we have cookies.
Pfft. False faith with your Nordic gods.