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BattleMaster => Locals => Dwilight => Topic started by: Gloria on March 28, 2011, 07:45:55 PM

Title: Barca
Post by: Gloria on March 28, 2011, 07:45:55 PM
Ack, settling and starting up a new colony is so slow that it gets frustrating.  There is only one recruitment center that still hasn't recruited anyone.  And I built a scouts guild but it took ages to make one scout available.  Doing nothing but wait is getting a little bit boring. 
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: [email protected] on March 28, 2011, 07:52:38 PM
You are centered in Rettleville, which has poor income for a city, surrounded by some regions that are okay with food but not so good for income, and occasionally swarming with monsters. The fact that with 10 nobles you aren't screaming about how there are monsters crawling around you is a good sign.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: DoctorHarte on March 28, 2011, 08:00:11 PM
That's what Dwilight gives you! Does Terran frequently stop by or do they just send gold/food? That city has been riddled with failure, if I was to create a colony I would look to Flowrestown or Shinnen, but that would require the support of the Giask or PeL, which is unlikely until a few wars have been finished.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: [email protected] on March 28, 2011, 08:11:24 PM
Having tried a colony in Flowrestown I can say that it's not that simple. The geography is a bit oppressive as the expansion direction is rather awkward with the Balance's Retreat mountains splitting any cohesive region borders. Flowrestown also requires quite a bit of food, being fourth overall (I think...It goes Darfix, Giask, Golden Farrow, Flowrestown, something else, don't care...)

I also had that stint in Ordenstaat with Rettleville. That was also rather difficult, for the aforementioned reasons of monsters. Oh yeah, and there were some really strange dealings and counterdealings. To make the story relatively not complex, Milmice talked to Garret, Garret tried to play Milmice, Milmice vowed Garret would be dead or something, Milmice got executed. Arden found out before Milmice died about Garret's supposed dealings, called him out, Garret got mad and messed up Rettleville then left. Arden vowed to hunt down Garret and his descendants or something, then Arden died or something after his fiasco in PeL. Meh.

Ok, so basically, Rettleville is a pretty darn tough place to maintain, even though it isn't too bad once you get the security. Its regions are pretty easy to feed, assuming you can get the food to the peasants' mouths and not the monsters'.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Gloria on March 28, 2011, 08:44:41 PM


Ok, so basically, Rettleville is a pretty darn tough place to maintain, even though it isn't too bad once you get the security. Its regions are pretty easy to feed, assuming you can get the food to the peasants' mouths and not the monsters'.


I think we're getting peasants to the monster's mouths.  Problem solved.
 :P
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: [email protected] on March 28, 2011, 08:50:50 PM
And so the income would be pretty low, second in lowness only to...well, I don't think any human realm with regions right now has a lower income, or for that matter, maximum income with their current regions. You might have beaten Thulsoma when they still had Storm's Keep though, but at one point Rettleville was down to 1 peasant.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: De-Legro on March 29, 2011, 04:01:09 AM
It is pretty impractical to rely on a new colonies RC's on Dwilight. You are centred in a region with poor population. Even with the new immigration code, population is going to be very slow to build up. That is why it is so important to get support from a realm close by.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Perth on March 29, 2011, 08:32:04 AM
That is why it is so important to get support from a realm close by.

Indeed, and Barca has solid support from both Terran and D'Hara. It will be very slow going, but Barca will definitely succeed where Ordenstaat failed.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Galvez on March 29, 2011, 04:31:35 PM
@ Gloria - Laia has recruited a scout from Rettlewood. But nevertheless, things are going a little slower than anticipated. Where Giask received hundreds of new immigrations and births per day, Rettleville only grows with circa 15 peasants a day. But there is hope, Rettlewood recently received 72 new peasants and I hope to align Thysan to our realm. The regions is adjacent to Terran and D'Hara, which hopefully aids in the growth of our total population. I know we can hold on to it because all our estates will be perfect.

-------

Starting a new colony anywhere else wouldn't be any easier. As most of us descend from Giask, Shinnen was no option due to our conflict with Pian en Luries. Flowrestown or Unterstorm are claimed by the Sanguis Astroism as the city of Darfix. And that leaves little to no other options than Rettleville. Due to my relations with Hireshmont we succeeded to create a new realm. And as mention, we have a strong alliance with both Terran and D'Hara which will ensure our survival. Patient is the key to success here I believe. And Gloria, you are our Ambassador, so I guess you already have more to do than most of us.  ;)
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: egamma on March 29, 2011, 05:14:29 PM
@ Gloria - Laia has recruited a scout from Rettlewood. But nevertheless, things are going a little slower than anticipated. Where Giask received hundreds of new immigrations and births per day, Rettleville only grows with circa 15 peasants a day. But there is hope, Rettlewood recently received 72 new peasants and I hope to align Thysan to our realm. The regions is adjacent to Terran and D'Hara, which hopefully aids in the growth of our total population. I know we can hold on to it because all our estates will be perfect.

Peasants shouldn't migrate realms, but the fact that monsters won't come from as many directions helps a lot.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Vellos on March 29, 2011, 10:07:37 PM
Peasants shouldn't migrate realms, but the fact that monsters won't come from as many directions helps a lot.

Really? Odd.

And stupid. Migration should be made more flexible to allow migration across peaceful borders or into rogue lands. Peasants wouldn't sit around and be ruled by nobles if there were folks in the wilderness surviving without nobles.

Whatever the case, Barca will have a hard time. The biggest difficulty is recruits, though. D'Hara and Terran can pump in gold and can occasionally ship in some food. We can send military expeditions when our home fronts are secure... but it will be a long, long time until Barca has sufficient population to reliably field even 1,000 CS.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: DoctorHarte on March 30, 2011, 01:14:30 AM
Terran should have expanded there instead then seceded into Barca. That would follow the rules, it would just be cheating if they were to do it strategically?
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: [email protected] on March 30, 2011, 01:25:48 AM
Terran should have expanded there instead then seceded into Barca. That would follow the rules, it would just be cheating if they were to do it strategically?

What are you talking about? Terran wasn't at war with anyone in the area of Rettleville. And just what are these "rules" to which you refer? I certainly recall nothing forbidding colonizing someplace for strategical purposes. Maybe the thing about making the war front closer, but I don't see how that applies in this case.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: DoctorHarte on March 30, 2011, 01:44:13 AM
Not at war with anyone in the Rettleville area, silly  :P

If Terran was at war with another realm, say Madina, and they seceded the Barca duchy into a new realm so they would have a better strategical advantage in the war. I've discussed this multiple times in OOC and I believe with at least one Dev
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: [email protected] on March 30, 2011, 01:53:22 AM
Ha, good one. Having to babysit a realm that gets about one gold per tax day that's under constant threat from monsters definitely gives a great advantage. Amazing how brilliant Terran tacticians are!  :o

No, but seriously, are you really saying that Barca's purpose of settlement was to shorten the distance to fighting Madina? For that matter, is Terran really even fighting Madina?

Also, several months before Barca was formed I was approached by Vellos of Terran about a colony in Twainville. As it happened, Ordenstaat died, so they got to take the closer city. I don't know what you're listening to, but hey, Astrum has a secret society and whatnot, right?  ::)
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: DoctorHarte on March 30, 2011, 01:55:52 AM
Ha, good one. Having to babysit a realm that gets about one gold per tax day that's under constant threat from monsters definitely gives a great advantage. Amazing how brilliant Terran tacticians are!  :o

No, but seriously, are you really saying that Barca's purpose of settlement was to shorten the distance to fighting Madina? For that matter, is Terran really even fighting Madina?

Also, several months before Barca was formed I was approached by Vellos of Terran about a colony in Twainville. As it happened, Ordenstaat died, so they got to take the closer city. I don't know what you're listening to, but hey, Astrum has a secret society and whatnot, right?  ::)

You seriously are slightly dumb and I say that in the nicest way possible. The Madina - Terran war was an example.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: [email protected] on March 30, 2011, 02:00:16 AM
Ok man, whatever you say. So what was your *real* OOC reason then, hm? It sounds about as thick (or thin depending on who's slicing) as your belief in some Astrum secret society. Was that you? I forget who that guy in Caerwyn was, but eh, not my concern.

Ahem, and before we get into some meaningless fight, back onto that topic.

A colony formed is not against the rules. I have no idea where you made that one up, but whatever, you go think that. If a colony was formed by a realm for the express and primary reason of shortening the distance to an enemy realm with which they are currently at war, then I believe that is in fact against the rules.

That said, what is against the rules in this case?
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Anaris on March 30, 2011, 02:08:45 AM
Peasants shouldn't migrate realms, but the fact that monsters won't come from as many directions helps a lot.
Really? Odd.

And stupid.

And wrong.

Peasants have no problem migrating from one realm to another; heck, they don't care who says they own the place.  They just want to make sure they're not going to get starved. Or eaten. Or both.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Telrunya on March 30, 2011, 02:13:18 AM
I think the point was that DoctorHarte believes Terran should have taken Retteville, then seceded it, instead of running a Colony TO there, since it's allowed per game rules. He then proceeded to provide an example of a situation (Fictional situation of Terran being at War with Madina) where that would not be allowed. He stated that that wasn't the current case and thus Secession would have been an option instead of the Colony TO.

So nothing is against the rules in this case.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: [email protected] on March 30, 2011, 02:14:27 AM
Then why even bring it up?
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: DoctorHarte on March 30, 2011, 02:16:10 AM
Yeah some people lied to me and my character believed the was an Astrum secret society, so what of it? Do you have to be so offensive? I'm not Hyperion, I am Noah. The RL player - so stop trying to start a fight. I as a person had no other reason to believe these characters as they were from different realms and I'm fairly positive no IC connection. So I don't see how that makes me anymore worse or unintelligent?

In the first place, I had suggested that it may have been more benficiary for Terran to expand to Barca then secede the colony after a lot of immigration had taken place. But if a realm has a duchy to secede in a strategical manner (For example: To gain advantage in a war over a realm like Madina.) It is not against the rules to colonize during war at all, I was simply talking about seceding the duchy.

Then why even bring it up?

Why can't I bring it up? I thought it was an interesting point to add to a discussion, which happens all the time.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: [email protected] on March 30, 2011, 02:32:53 AM
To me it sounded a lot like you were implying that the players in Terran were breaking the rules, a rather serious implication. Perhaps you did not intend that, and either way I don't play in Terran. However, were I a Terran player I would probably be quite offended at the perceived suggestion.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Indirik on March 30, 2011, 02:49:35 AM
If a colony was formed by a realm for the express and primary reason of shortening the distance to an enemy realm with which they are currently at war, then I believe that is in fact against the rules.

Actually , I don't know of any "strategic colony" rule. In fact, most colonies not on Dwilight would be strategic colonies, designed to hasten the defeat of an enemy. It is a strategic secession that is against the rules.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: DoctorHarte on March 30, 2011, 03:36:18 AM
To me it sounded a lot like you were implying that the players in Terran were breaking the rules, a rather serious implication. Perhaps you did not intend that, and either way I don't play in Terran. However, were I a Terran player I would probably be quite offended at the perceived suggestion.

I was not at all as Terran did not expand to Barca and secede the duchy.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Geronus on March 30, 2011, 04:31:40 AM
Actually , I don't know of any "strategic colony" rule. In fact, most colonies not on Dwilight would be strategic colonies, designed to hasten the defeat of an enemy. It is a strategic secession that is against the rules.

A "strategic" secession is against the rules? Like, Fontan-SoA? Or something different? Kind of curious now, as conquest and secession of duchies (or at a minimum a CTO) is almost necessary to make progress in some wars, particularly when it's an already large realm doing the conquering. DoA on EC springs to mind, though I'm not sure if that was secession or a CTO. Not that it makes a difference in my mind, the purpose is the same either way if you ask me.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: egamma on March 30, 2011, 06:12:54 AM
Really? Odd.

And stupid.


And wrong.

Peasants have no problem migrating from one realm to another; heck, they don't care who says they own the place.  They just want to make sure they're not going to get starved. Or eaten. Or both.

But they are my peasants, they work my land, they shouldn't be able to go and work for my hated enemies!  :o

Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Shenron on March 30, 2011, 06:16:32 AM
Do you have to be so offensive? I'm not Hyperion, I am Noah. The RL player - so stop trying to start a fight.

......

You seriously are slightly dumb and I say that in the nicest way possible.

This forum can give some laughs.  ;D
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: DoctorHarte on March 30, 2011, 07:03:20 AM
I'm just trying to play out my role as the worst reputable member around here  ::)
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: DoctorHarte on March 30, 2011, 07:05:47 AM
A "strategic" secession is against the rules? Like, Fontan-SoA? Or something different? Kind of curious now, as conquest and secession of duchies (or at a minimum a CTO) is almost necessary to make progress in some wars, particularly when it's an already large realm doing the conquering. DoA on EC springs to mind, though I'm not sure if that was secession or a CTO. Not that it makes a difference in my mind, the purpose is the same either way if you ask me.

It was a CTO of Aix, the furthest Ibladesh has expanded is Bursa/Woolton/Abadan.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Vellos on March 30, 2011, 08:54:05 AM
Returning to the topic...

We originally planned a TO of Twainville, as Artemesia said. But Ordenstaat's death opened up Rettleville: much easier to supply.

I briefly considering a secession, but nixed it, as it was already a pain just to get down there and take Rettleville, let along slog through the endless jungles of Thysan.

You know my occasional references to the terrible trees of Maroccidens? Those are references to Rettlewood, Thysan, and Odona. Huge travel times, lots of monsters, difficult to coordinate, even more difficult to populate. Plus, the Barcans were itching to go colonize, and we didn't want to delay any more than we had to. Thysan is eventually on the agenda... maybe even soon... but taking it up front would have made the entire endeavor much harder. Plus, secessions hurt region stats.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Perth on March 30, 2011, 09:46:52 AM
Yeah.

You try marching a medieval army through this:

(http://www.vagabondish.com/wp-content/uploads/thailand-jungle.jpg)


Oh, and throw in some monsters or undead.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Peri on March 30, 2011, 10:07:57 AM
A "strategic" secession is against the rules? Like, Fontan-SoA? Or something different? Kind of curious now, as conquest and secession of duchies (or at a minimum a CTO) is almost necessary to make progress in some wars, particularly when it's an already large realm doing the conquering. DoA on EC springs to mind, though I'm not sure if that was secession or a CTO. Not that it makes a difference in my mind, the purpose is the same either way if you ask me.

I think the rule is a bit blurry. If you secede because your realm is just too big to be handled, or because you have no desire to keep the new land, like the secession of westmoor from Perdan, then it is fine. If you secede to enhance the effectiveness at destroying an enemy realm, it shouldn't be allowed. Fontan/SoA was a bit of both, as Fontan clearly understood without a secession they wouldn't have been able to take OR lands, and also because Fontan was simply becoming too big.

As a rule of thumb I believe it's always better to secede or colonize after the war that gave you the land, like Ibby and Doa, rather than during it, as Fontan/Soa.

However I'm afraid this is off topic maybe someone can move the posts to a new topic somewhere else more appropriate? I think it's an interesting argument to make some clarity on. 8)
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: De-Legro on March 30, 2011, 10:23:08 AM
From the wiki

*Strategic secessions are prohibited. This means creating a new realm, through secession, in order to circumvent recruiting-in-capital-only restriction. Friendly secessions are okay.

*Strategic capital moves are prohibited. This means moving one's capital for the purpose of closer refitting times in a war. Moving a capital to a central region of the realm or for roleplay reasons (historical, realm named based on capital name, removing a rival duke's power base, keeping a rival duke close by to be watched etc.) are acceptable.

If we take the example given to be the only definition of "Strategic" secession it makes things slightly clearer. The rule would appear to be there to stop people trying to get around the capital movement rule by "secession". It does become blured when you are creating a new realm in the lands of your still kicking enemy, but personally I would think that as long as the new realm and the old stayed separate, and there wasn't a mass movement of nobles and lands to the new realm to such that it becomes the dominate force of the two, it isn't "strategic"
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Galvez on March 30, 2011, 06:29:30 PM
Fontan/SoA was a bit of both, as Fontan clearly understood without a secession they wouldn't have been able to take OR lands, and also because Fontan was simply becoming too big.
Interesting story.. The war islands were 'sinking', and a large group from Tasalak went to Fontan. At that time, Fontan already had more than 100 characters and was at its largest. Kazakh was succeeded for the large population of new nobles. And to the frustration of many others who did not agreed with the time of government or the fact that the whole government was already formed behind closed doors. But it was certainly not for the purpose of circumventing game rules.

-------

Back on-topic.. Perth, I do not think the Marwood is that colourful.  ;D  Laying next to the barren lands of the Zuma.. But who knows. ^^
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Peri on March 30, 2011, 09:42:34 PM
Interesting story.. The war islands were 'sinking', and a large group from Tasalak went to Fontan. At that time, Fontan already had more than 100 characters and was at its largest. Kazakh was succeeded for the large population of new nobles. And to the frustration of many others who did not agreed with the time of government or the fact that the whole government was already formed behind closed doors. But it was certainly not for the purpose of circumventing game rules.

You know, I fully agree with this. I never said there was an intentional attempt to circumvent mechanics, but still the secession give an incredible strategic advantage to Fontan. It's very similar to capital moves: regardless of your true intentions if you move it in a way that would bring you a lot of advantage it's often frowned upon. No idea what's the politics of the titans about that, Morek could have been punished for moving the capital to Muspelheim recently for instance.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: vonGenf on March 30, 2011, 10:36:08 PM
Morek could have been punished for moving the capital to Muspelheim recently for instance.

It was not moved during a war, that could have caused trouble. If you forbid moving capitals in case of eventual wars, you might as well forbid capital moves period.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Galvez on March 30, 2011, 10:46:22 PM
We'll see what that move does to their southern front. A long journey to defend yourself against monsters, not to mention the dissidents amongst the peasants who will complain about the distance of the capital.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Peri on March 30, 2011, 10:55:28 PM
It was not moved during a war, that could have caused trouble. If you forbid moving capitals in case of eventual wars, you might as well forbid capital moves period.

I waited the end of the war against Thulsoma, but we were at war with Averoth when the move was done.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Gloria on March 31, 2011, 09:58:09 PM
I'm just trying to play out my role as the worst reputable member around here  ::)

Lol.  Soon I'll steal that role from you, and you will no longer be special!
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Gloria on March 31, 2011, 10:01:44 PM
But they are my peasants, they work my land, they shouldn't be able to go and work for my hated enemies!  :o

I need peasants in Rettleville.  What am I going to feed to the monsters when they come?  Wait, no... that's not what I meant.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: DoctorHarte on March 31, 2011, 11:54:13 PM
Lol.  Soon I'll steal that role from you, and you will no longer be special!

It's on! But can't we just be friends? :( I lonely down here.. and I think some people just give me bad rep everytime they see my post, ignoring if it was a nice comment  ???
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Gloria on April 01, 2011, 12:15:12 AM
It's on! But can't we just be friends? :( I lonely down here.. and I think some people just give me bad rep everytime they see my post, ignoring if it was a nice comment  ???

*Huggles*

Make it a nice comment about Barca and stop hijacking the thread. 

You'd think we're mega-trolls or something.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: DoctorHarte on April 01, 2011, 12:22:16 AM
Maybe you look like Trolls in Barca, but we are civilized in Caerwyn! *Guffaws*  8)  ::)
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Shizzle on April 01, 2011, 12:35:08 AM
What would be the purpose of getting closer to Madina if the vehicle is such an instable realm? Even Madina would just crush you if you gotwithin reach :)

Skyndarbau is ever dreaming of re-colonising Shinnen :)
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Nathan on April 01, 2011, 12:53:34 AM
Don't be silly... Half of Madina would crush you, the other half would want to trade with you! :D
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Gloria on April 01, 2011, 02:15:19 AM
Maybe you look like Trolls in Barca, but we are civilized in Caerwyn! *Guffaws*  8)  ::)

No, I think we were expelled from PeL precisely because we didn't look like trolls.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: DoctorHarte on April 01, 2011, 02:47:49 AM
Anyways, back on topic. Can you give us any background about Barca, the people, motivations, etc? Who do you play?
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Gloria on April 01, 2011, 03:45:27 AM
We used to be nice Giaskians in PeL until Queen Alanna decided she didn't want Giask to be part of PeL.  Then she decided she did want the land of Giask after all, so PeL declared war on Giask.  Giask lost the war.  Nobles from Giask could not rejoin PeL, though, so we decided to go and start a new realm.  With the help of D'Hara and Terran we made it.  And now we're Barca.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: DoctorHarte on April 01, 2011, 09:31:26 AM
Oh great, more rejects make a realm  ::) Now we have to listen to them  :-\

Just kidding. If I wasn't Judge in Caerwyn and Marshal of our maintenance army, I'd come on by and leave a few gifts but this war we've ogtten ourselves into is quite a roller-coaster of responsibilities and fun
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Galvez on April 01, 2011, 06:49:51 PM
Oh great, more rejects make a realm  ::) Now we have to listen to them  :-\
I'd rather call us dissident movement of Pian en Luries.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Sacha on April 01, 2011, 07:12:46 PM
Considering you made Gwendolyn a Duchess, I'd definitely go with rejects 8)
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: cjnodell on April 01, 2011, 08:09:41 PM
Well, she was kind of voted into office... We are a republic after all.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Indirik on April 01, 2011, 08:16:04 PM
We are a republic after all.

Well, there's your problem, right there.  ;)
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Gloria on April 01, 2011, 09:03:39 PM
I didn't know monsters eating humans from republic more than they liked humans in other forms of government. 

Are republicans more tasty?
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Geronus on April 01, 2011, 09:09:08 PM
Yes, all that arguing makes the meat more tender.

Mmmmmmm... Democracy.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: [email protected] on April 01, 2011, 09:09:22 PM
Well, she was kind of voted into office... We are a republic after all.

I wonder if Bowie got voted in?
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Sacha on April 01, 2011, 09:10:39 PM
Yes, all that arguing makes the meat more tender.

Mmmmmmm... Democracy.

Also, they talk so much and never get anything done because they'd need a referendum to decide whether or not to have a referendum about fighting back. They get no exercise, which also helps keep the meat tender.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: DoctorHarte on April 01, 2011, 11:16:10 PM
Seriously, they should have started out as at least a Monarchy with a smart man/woman taking the lead. [email protected]#$ will get done unless you give people room to bicker, which always happens in Republics and Democracies. I couldn't stand the 300 messages Fontan produces in a huge discussion about some stupid lord sacking a temple and not telling the Flow about it. I think I emigrated to Riombara, made my way to SiC and then betrayed their plans to Enweil... another republic.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Vellos on April 02, 2011, 12:24:36 AM
Seriously, they should have started out as at least a Monarchy with a smart man/woman taking the lead. [email protected]#$ will get done unless you give people room to bicker, which always happens in Republics and Democracies. I couldn't stand the 300 messages Fontan produces in a huge discussion about some stupid lord sacking a temple and not telling the Flow about it. I think I emigrated to Riombara, made my way to SiC and then betrayed their plans to Enweil... another republic.

They have a good leader in Galvez... and folks in D'Hara and Terran giving them support, and lighting a fire under their bums.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: DoctorHarte on April 02, 2011, 01:12:21 AM
I was just ranting. My apologies  ::)
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Galvez on April 03, 2011, 11:45:49 PM
Besides that we wanted to be a republic, as a colony of Terran we inherited their governance.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Broin on April 04, 2011, 02:37:03 AM
Always hated that you have to consider what government you want for a colony, and try to find a sponsor of the same government type. I actually remember someone floating a OOC rebellion plan in a discussion about setting up a colony, just so they could get the government type they were interested in.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Galvez on April 05, 2011, 01:36:55 AM
By name, you are a colony of the 'mother' realm. So I can understand why the colony has the same government type. It inherits the same values, beliefs and laws ect. But yes, it is not practical if you rather wanted another government type.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Broin on April 05, 2011, 01:41:07 AM
A RL colony would generally still have the mother countries Sovereign as their head of state, so its not exactly comparable.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Indirik on April 05, 2011, 03:06:20 AM
That could be done via RP, if you were interested in it.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Bedwyr on April 05, 2011, 03:23:35 AM
That could be done via RP, if you were interested in it.

Indeed it can!  Especially with the new treaty system.  (grins) Now, to just accomplish it...
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Vellos on April 05, 2011, 03:44:15 AM
I've always wanted there to be somewhere where one small city state would hold the allegiance of several larger realms.... have yet to find a good way to implement it, however.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Bedwyr on April 05, 2011, 03:55:12 AM
I've always wanted there to be somewhere where one small city state would hold the allegiance of several larger realms.... have yet to find a good way to implement it, however.

...You mean one city state theoretically holding the oaths of several larger realms?  Papal states to Catholic Kingdoms kinda thing?  Wasn't that what Corsanctum was supposed to do?
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Vellos on April 05, 2011, 06:36:58 AM
Something like that. Though I'd prefer if it weren't explicitly religious... and preferably smaller than Corsanctum. Like,one city, 2-3 rurals having some kind of special legitimacy; maybe the claimant to that throne has special rights over other realms' thrones.

It'd have to be entirely RPed; it's just always something I've thought about;or at least ever since the CCA in Beluaterra. We united Irombrozia and Fwuvoghor by marriage, I had hoped to unite Heen and Irombrozia by marriage as well, then make peace with Rio as well, and gradually form more marriage alliances around BT. But alas, it was not to be. I was thwarted by invasions, multi-cheaters, and the allure of Dwilight.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Anaris on April 05, 2011, 01:06:42 PM
...You mean one city state theoretically holding the oaths of several larger realms?  Papal states to Catholic Kingdoms kinda thing?  Wasn't that what Corsanctum was supposed to do?

Multiple people have talked to me, in the past, about making a sort of Vatican-like state out of Shinnen and its surrounds...
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Galvez on April 05, 2011, 01:20:50 PM
Succeed Libidizedd and there you have a Vatican like realm. Make it a realm of elders and priest and dominate the theocracies of the bloodstar from your own little island.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Nosferatus on April 05, 2011, 01:32:23 PM
It is also possible to roleplay certain obligations to another realm by a simple treaty.
all parties sign to concede with any request given by the papal state and in any case will the papal state be defended from all enemies by signed parties.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Peri on April 05, 2011, 01:57:23 PM
Succeed Libidizedd and there you have a Vatican like realm. Make it a realm of elders and priest and dominate the theocracies of the bloodstar from your own little island.

Corsanctum should technically be something close to the vatican of SA. But it didn't really work, and the reason is that it lacks the threatening power the vatican had back in medieval times.

More than once Corsanctum's authority was challenged by Morek, after Mathurin was paused, and they couldn't do anything at all. Corsanctum, being quite full of priests and never very successful at expanding, was not truly powerful militarily speaking, and the other theocracies was simply too far to truly threaten Morek even if willing. Moreover, Corsanctum relied on Morek's food and troops to survive for quite a long period of time.

You can RP everything as much as you want, but game mechanics, right now, grant power only to the big states. Little states have nothing to offer that would make their desires listened to.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Darksun on April 05, 2011, 02:34:33 PM
You can RP everything as much as you want, but game mechanics, right now, grant power only to the big states. Little states have nothing to offer that would make their desires listened to.

Tell that to Averoth who has mustered thousands of troops with only three regions and no cities.

Small realms have very distinct advantages that can be leveraged if the leaders choose to do so.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Sacha on April 05, 2011, 02:41:59 PM
Averoth is a bad example... let's say they look more suspicious than the average small BM realm...
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Nosferatus on April 05, 2011, 02:42:12 PM
Corsanctum should technically be something close to the vatican of SA. But it didn't really work, and the reason is that it lacks the threatening power the vatican had back in medieval times.

More than once Corsanctum's authority was challenged by Morek, after Mathurin was paused, and they couldn't do anything at all. Corsanctum, being quite full of priests and never very successful at expanding, was not truly powerful militarily speaking, and the other theocracies was simply too far to truly threaten Morek even if willing. Moreover, Corsanctum relied on Morek's food and troops to survive for quite a long period of time.

You can RP everything as much as you want, but game mechanics, right now, grant power only to the big states. Little states have nothing to offer that would make their desires listened to.

That power was the power of excommunication, which basicly all catholic nations had execute by removing the excommunicated leader.

You can have all SA realms include that in there oath/treaty to Corsanctum.
It will give corsanctum and the church lots of power.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Peri on April 05, 2011, 02:48:15 PM
That power was the power of excommunication, which basicly all catholic nations had execute by removing the excommunicated leader.

You can have all SA realms include that in there oath/treaty to Corsanctum.
It will give corsanctum and the church lots of power.

Well if ALL the priests of SA were in Corsanctum, and if they exerted their power via auto da fe and religious take overs against the theocracy they want to put in line, perhaps it could work.

It's still not very easy to realize anyway; the main achievement would be having nobles more "loyal" to the church than to the state, to the point that a ruler that upsets the church seriously risks to lose his power to an inner rebellion based on religious reasons. That was more or less something Morek went near to a couple of times, but still not many are ready to acknowledge this special status of Corsanctum within SA. Perhaps thas has more to do with Mathurin's desire not to impose himself too much more than game mechanics however.

Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Anaris on April 05, 2011, 03:13:42 PM
Tell that to Averoth who has mustered thousands of troops with only three regions and no cities.

Small realms have very distinct advantages that can be leveraged if the leaders choose to do so.

Um...

Averoth is not an example of the power of small realms.  It is a very clear example of the power of OOC cliques willing to exploit loopholes in the system to their own advantage.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Indirik on April 05, 2011, 03:18:35 PM
Succeed Libidizedd and there you have a Vatican like realm. Make it a realm of elders and priest and dominate the theocracies of the bloodstar from your own little island.

Stop giving away my secret plans!  >:(
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Darksun on April 05, 2011, 03:38:29 PM
Um...

Averoth is not an example of the power of small realms.  It is a very clear example of the power of OOC cliques willing to exploit loopholes in the system to their own advantage.

If they are exploiting loopholes (ie. cheating) then why aren't they punished for it? Doesn't that go against the social contract?

From the viewpoint of those without special information into the exploits they are using, they appear to be the benchmark of military efficiency and have seriously tipped the scales of balance in northern Dwilight.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Galvez on April 05, 2011, 07:03:23 PM
What surprised me is that they have 50 nobles.. how did they do that?
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Vellos on April 05, 2011, 09:45:25 PM
What surprised me is that a thread entitled "Barca" is about Averoth and Morek.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Bael on April 05, 2011, 09:49:26 PM
What surprised me is that a thread entitled "Barca" is about Averoth and Morek.
Hahahahah, classic!
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Galvez on April 06, 2011, 01:09:00 AM
Stop giving away my secret plans!  >:(
I knew you would be interested.  ;)

What surprised me is that a thread entitled "Barca" is about Averoth and Morek.
Well, yes.. somewhere along the way we wandered off I guess.. it has befallen us.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: DoctorHarte on April 06, 2011, 01:50:44 AM
Averoth got some 15-20 nobles from Thulsoma and friends of families came to join the fight :D
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Fury on April 14, 2011, 06:41:36 PM
I also had that stint in Ordenstaat with Rettleville. That was also rather difficult, for the aforementioned reasons of monsters. Oh yeah, and there were some really strange dealings and counterdealings. To make the story relatively not complex, Milmice talked to Garret, Garret tried to play Milmice, Milmice vowed Garret would be dead or something, Milmice got executed. Arden found out before Milmice died about Garret's supposed dealings, called him out, Garret got mad and messed up Rettleville then left. Arden vowed to hunt down Garret and his descendants or something, then Arden died or something after his fiasco in PeL. Meh.
Then Garret came back as a daimon or something and Arden thought that was probably punishment enough.  8)
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Anaris on April 14, 2011, 07:11:41 PM
Then Garret came back as a daimon or something and Arden thought that was probably punishment enough.  8)

He has quite consistently maintained that he is human.  Indeed, no character played by a regular player is anything but human. 

(Except in Sirion, or Outer Tilog. But they're another story.)
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: [email protected] on April 15, 2011, 12:01:52 AM
Indeed I have been quite adamant in-game about the fact that Garret is absolutely human, nothing special about him at all *. Those of you who have tuned in to some of my more serious statements on IRC would also know that I am very serious about other PCs abiding by the "Human characters only" rule as well.

This isn't because I'm like, some "human only police". I just don't quite like it when people think stuff like "OMG, daimons are awesome I'm gonna be their violent agent!" or "I'm a beast!", and actually RP as though they were convinced that was fact.

*: No, seriously, there's nothing special that Garret can do. In fact, he probably has even less than everyone else.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: vanKaya on April 15, 2011, 06:48:56 AM
haha I'd like to place a feature request for a "human only police"  ;D
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Bedwyr on April 15, 2011, 06:57:58 AM
haha I'd like to place a feature request for a "human only police"  ;D

What makes you think there are anything besides humans?  Look very closely into my recording device, please, I want to get all the information.

 8)  (flash)

You had an excellent vacation in the completely human northern side of the East Continent.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Gustav Kuriga on April 15, 2011, 12:41:54 PM
I had an excellent vacation on the human northern side of the East Continent.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Andrew on May 25, 2011, 02:55:13 AM
So in other news, Barca has 4 regions now. 1 mostly by a misunderstanding on my part (it's nice being the only guy in the realm with a TO unit). Oh, and our banker went MIA.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: vanKaya on May 25, 2011, 04:05:47 AM
yay Barca! Was the misunderstanding Celtibrea, cause it's probably gonna work out for you guys if you have the manpower to keep it
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Andrew on May 25, 2011, 05:12:01 AM
It was. Apparently I was only supposed to scout, but I started a takeover on my own. Council wasn't too pleased but it's not like they're really out anything by it.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Chenier on May 25, 2011, 05:28:06 AM
It was. Apparently I was only supposed to scout, but I started a takeover on my own. Council wasn't too pleased but it's not like they're really out anything by it.

What I love about Barca's expansion is that they are stealing my peasants (less mouths to feed while still maintaining enough pop for 100% production) while increasing their food output (which I am eager to start collecting).

Quite happy with how this is turning out indeed.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Telrunya on May 25, 2011, 11:41:05 AM
Yes, now go produce food already!! ;D
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Galvez on May 25, 2011, 12:08:28 PM
It was. Apparently I was only supposed to scout, but I started a takeover on my own. Council wasn't too pleased but it's not like they're really out anything by it.
People are going hungry in both Rettlewood and Thysan. We need our nobles to get those region producing at their maximum capacity for their current population. And the whole takeover became chaotic because it was not organised. But well, who could imagine that the region would fall for the takeover, even though for the last two days we had abandoned it.  ;)
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Bael on May 25, 2011, 12:34:36 PM
People are going hungry in both Rettlewood and Thysan. We need our nobles to get those region producing at their maximum capacity for their current population. And the whole takeover became chaotic because it was not organised. But well, who could imagine that the region would fall for the takeover, even though for the last two days we had abandoned it.  ;)

Haha, yeah...Its rather odd how the takeover continues even if the region is abandoned. Got to do with how much they want to join the realm. I remember something similar happened to Hyperion(?) in Caerwyn - he started a takeover in Lavendrow I think it was, then left the region. The takeover continued, and the region converted. People were angered by the takeover, because it had not been sanctioned (etc), and he just denied it, because he wasn't in the region when it converted ;)

On an aside, I've never seen undead try to take over a region before, and so quickly! Only ever seen monsters try it, and that was after quite a while in the region.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Sacha on May 25, 2011, 02:20:47 PM
How are you going to deny starting a takeover when the whole realm is notified when you start one? ???
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Vellos on May 25, 2011, 02:38:14 PM
So in other news, Barca has 4 regions now. 1 mostly by a misunderstanding on my part (it's nice being the only guy in the realm with a TO unit). Oh, and our banker went MIA.

And congrats to you guys. That's going well. Now you just need to get estates set up and get some infrastructure.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Bael on May 25, 2011, 05:26:48 PM
How are you going to deny starting a takeover when the whole realm is notified when you start one? ???

Eh, he managed it somehow. Caerwyn is a strange place.

And congrats to you guys. That's going well. Now you just need to get estates set up and get some infrastructure.

I'm wondering whether gold or infrastructure will be the main problem in the long run. I suspect things are easier now due to the excess of adventurers in Dwilight, but still a great effort!
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: cjnodell on May 25, 2011, 06:58:47 PM
I ma y be a pessimist but I do not see us keeping these newly gained regions for long...
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Sacha on May 25, 2011, 07:37:48 PM
Eh, he managed it somehow. Caerwyn is a strange place.

Japan is a strange place. Caerwyn just sounds... stupid :P
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Vellos on May 25, 2011, 10:58:18 PM
I ma y be a pessimist but I do not see us keeping these newly gained regions for long...

No, Celtiberia will be very hard to hold. But you had darn well better hold Rettlewood and Thysan. We worked hard enough to get ya'll into those places, if you go and lose'em even with Terran and D'Haran armies routinely supporting you, I'll be more than a little miffed. At least hold Rettlewood.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Chenier on May 26, 2011, 04:08:53 AM
No, Celtiberia will be very hard to hold. But you had darn well better hold Rettlewood and Thysan. We worked hard enough to get ya'll into those places, if you go and lose'em even with Terran and D'Haran armies routinely supporting you, I'll be more than a little miffed. At least hold Rettlewood.

It's a game of luck. If monsters are tame, growth will be exponential. Celtiberia and Thysan will quickly grow, providing you with food surpluses, an income, and a source for troops. The food surplus can then be sold to D'Hara to get more gold. Which in turn can help you fight the rogues.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Galvez on May 26, 2011, 04:40:45 PM
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Bael on May 26, 2011, 05:58:53 PM
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: cjnodell on May 26, 2011, 06:00:33 PM
A lot of it comes down to luck, timing and preparedness. My experience in Barca thus far has led me to believe that a HUGE horde of monsters or undead is bound to slam us before we are ready. It has already started in Celtiberia. If we get his hard by rouge forces before we can build up a reasonable military, we have no chance of holding these regions.  Add to that the fact that Barca has not demonstrated itself to be the most cohesive place out there and I get concerned.

On the bright side, our military is actually growing for the first time since Barca was established.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Indirik on May 26, 2011, 07:42:50 PM
Being on the frontier like that, you will occasionally see some realm-killer rogue forces wandering around. Sometimes the only thing you can do is get out of their way, and hope they keep moving on. As odd as it might sound, you're lucky you're near the Zuma. I'd bet they actually keep the rogue forces in the are pretty well under control, so you don't get the massive concentration of rogues that you see in the northwest, or the central eastern mountains.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Geronus on May 26, 2011, 07:47:57 PM
Aye, I've seen a few concentrations of as much as 10k CS of rogue units on the northwest frontier before. When Astrum was a very young realm, we once had 6-8k CS of monsters pillaging Eidulb Outskirts in the middle of winter, and there was jack we could do about it.

Fortunately it isn't often that forces like that move all together. Usually they come into existence by chance and disperse more or less the same way.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Chenier on May 27, 2011, 12:05:35 AM
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Vellos on May 27, 2011, 10:48:32 PM
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Chenier on May 28, 2011, 12:57:08 AM
The major breadbasket of Maroccidens is west of Twainville. The Marwood and the Aurvandil border will run a surplus, but nothing big. Major growth will come from the western plains.

Though perhaps not as significant, surpluses should nonetheless be achieved as Barca works its way westward.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Rogi on June 08, 2011, 11:05:21 PM
Hey! Its my first message in the forum! I'm a noble of Barca, and I've to say I enjoy playing in this part of the continent. It's a really difficult area, with extense travel times which make coordination and help between realms really difficult, but anyways it's great. I've to agree in the fact that people can't imagine how difficult and how much investment you've to do to see a slow improve.

I would ask the people who play in Barca to be a bit more active in their RP. We all know it's difficult and sometimes hard to be sitting around with a very few gold coins, being unable to recruit a unit. Therefore I think that we should manage to give our republic a bit more of fun with some great histories, where we may knew us better as nobles.

Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Gloria on June 09, 2011, 07:14:47 AM
Yes, I agree that we could be a little bit more active.  The problem is that there is not much to say... and while I do like staying in character and interacting with others, I do not enjoy long narratives.  My advice is that you get involved in a religion or a guild.  They share more information.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Chenier on June 09, 2011, 12:52:41 PM
A short walk to Chesney will give you access to a ton of guilds. Then, pick a religion. There are quite a few in the region to chose from.

This broadens your contacts.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Vellos on June 11, 2011, 01:51:04 AM
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Chenier on June 11, 2011, 04:48:42 AM
As far as religions, Sanguis Astroism is the most active.... but I am personally biased in favor of Triunism, of course.

Or a short walk east will give you temples of Verdis Elementum. ;)
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Gloria on June 13, 2011, 06:58:08 AM
Also, a shack of Eleryonism has been built in Rettlewood.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: [email protected] on June 13, 2011, 08:09:13 AM
Man, what a big jumble of different religions in the southwest. I think that actually works in SA's favor though, because no faith is strong enough to withstand an organized conversion plan, whereas having a strong opposing faith can hinder greatly.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Galvez on June 13, 2011, 10:46:16 AM
Man, what a big jumble of different religions in the southwest. I think that actually works in SA's favor though, because no faith is strong enough to withstand an organized conversion plan, whereas having a strong opposing faith can hinder greatly.
But no one outside SA is really fond of them. It will not be religions, but realms opposing them.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: [email protected] on June 13, 2011, 12:42:56 PM
Yeah, and we've seen how well that goes. Heck, Madina's even lostmost of its island and it only declared war on SA. Its freaky.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Bael on June 13, 2011, 02:36:25 PM
Yeah, and we've seen how well that goes. Heck, Madina's even lostmost of its island and it only declared war on SA. Its freaky.
Lol,  I somehow think that that linkage is somewhat tenuous  ;) :P
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Indirik on June 13, 2011, 02:57:34 PM
That because you heathens can't see the obvious influence of the Stars on your actions. Even the enemies of the Stars serve their will, albeit unwittingly.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Bael on June 13, 2011, 03:10:02 PM
Meanwhile the Elements subvert all!
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Sacha on June 13, 2011, 03:16:23 PM
You're all pawns in Tyr's eternal war game.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: [email protected] on June 13, 2011, 03:19:05 PM
...Not even going to say anything about pawns and kings.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Perth on June 13, 2011, 03:31:50 PM
Man, what a big jumble of different religions in the southwest. I think that actually works in SA's favor though, because no faith is strong enough to withstand an organized conversion plan, whereas having a strong opposing faith can hinder greatly.

Wouldn't a massive missionary campaign organized by the Church to a specific area of the continent, like the southwest, be pretty interesting? Since SA will not likely ever have the ability (at least for a long time) to actually ever invade a place like the southwest and force their religion, what if they went the peaceful route (shock, I know, it's SA) and just did a massive, RP-heavy missonary campaign sending tons of missionaries to the area to convert Nobles and people alike?
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Chenier on June 14, 2011, 03:56:35 AM
Wouldn't a massive missionary campaign organized by the Church to a specific area of the continent, like the southwest, be pretty interesting? Since SA will not likely ever have the ability (at least for a long time) to actually ever invade a place like the southwest and force their religion, what if they went the peaceful route (shock, I know, it's SA) and just did a massive, RP-heavy missionary campaign sending tons of missionaries to the area to convert Nobles and people alike?

They would likely meet a bunch of closed borders and "no preaching without formal permission" restrictions while being met with cold silence. In other words, encouraged to pack their stuff and go back from whence they came.

That's what I'd expect of it, at least.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Bedwyr on June 14, 2011, 04:09:27 AM
Lol,  I somehow think that that linkage is somewhat tenuous  ;) :P

They declared war on a force of Order, which is something a chaotic realm would do, which was further revealed by their loss of regions.  This, of course, would have been obvious to any student of Madinan politics as the constitution is designed to cause chaos.

Common-causal scenario: Loss of regions <= Chaos => Declaration of war on force for Order
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Perth on June 14, 2011, 05:56:18 AM
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Galvez on June 14, 2011, 05:06:57 PM
We are open to religions, not bloody star fanatics.  ;D
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: dustole on June 14, 2011, 07:13:57 PM
Yes, there is definitely a lot of anti-SA sentiments throughout the south.  There are a lot of refugees from old northern realms.  That might be part of it.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Chenier on June 15, 2011, 12:21:25 AM
Yes, there is definitely a lot of anti-SA sentiments throughout the south.  There are a lot of refugees from old northern realms.  That might be part of it.

You think?

Honestly, I think the collapse of Springdale caused SA the vast majority of its haters, either directly or indirectly. It went counter-clockwise from Springdale all the way down to Madina/Fissoa. PeL was always too busy fighting itself to really care about (or have an opportunity to look at) what goes on beyond its borders.

Cato is SA personified, in some people's eyes.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Geronus on June 15, 2011, 05:15:06 AM
Springdale was an awfully long time ago, but I am inclined to believe you on that account. In recent times however, that seed has really been watered by Thulsoma's propaganda machine. Hatred of SA has become noticeably more virulent and unrelenting since the beginning of the Thulsoma affair. The ironic part is that those who hate SA have a tendency to be just as fanatical about it as they accuse SA of being, if not more so in fact. Rowan was a pretty moderate character, but Averoth and Caerwyn in the end refused to deal with him and succumbed to paranoid fantasies about non-existent SA plots. Averoth was offered unconditional peace, but never responded. As for Caerwyn, Rowan made several concessions, from peace talks with Averoth to rewriting the Brotherhood of Theocracies treaty. In the end however it turned out that Caerwyn was planning for war the entire time, apparently irregardless of anything Astrum could do to reassure them.

Ah well, I can't complain about how things are working out in the end.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: De-Legro on June 15, 2011, 05:21:45 AM
Springdale was an awfully long time ago, but I am inclined to believe you on that account. In recent times however, that seed has really been watered by Thulsoma's propaganda machine. Hatred of SA has become noticeably more virulent and unrelenting since the beginning of the Thulsoma affair. The ironic part is that those who hate SA have a tendency to be just as fanatical about it as they accuse SA of being, if not more so in fact. Rowan was a pretty moderate character, but Averoth and Caerwyn in the end refused to deal with him and succumbed to paranoid fantasies about non-existent SA plots. Averoth was offered unconditional peace, but never responded. As for Caerwyn, Rowan made several concessions, from peace talks with Averoth to rewriting the Brotherhood of Theocracies treaty. In the end however it turned out that Caerwyn was planning for war the entire time, apparently irregardless of anything Astrum could do to reassure them.

Ah well, I can't complain about how things are working out in the end.
In fact things are working out so well, you have to question the non-existent SA plots. After all how could so many rulers make such poor choices time and time again :)
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: [email protected] on June 15, 2011, 07:55:51 AM
For some reason I felt like I was part of some vampire covenant nest thing, like in Underworld, when I was with SA. Now that I'm not, I feel like the Arbiter from Halo as the Heretic. Minus the sword. And the power armor. And...not an alien. Ok, so the only thing I have in common is being labelled "Heretic". I don't even get the brand on the chest. Maybe I could find out that the Bloodstars are only three in a system of weapons designed by long extinct technologically advanced beings that were meant to contain a horror that consumed entire star systems. Activation of the Bloodstar array would eradicate all life in a certain radius, thus containing the plague at the cost of life in this galaxy.

And then I'd gain absolution by vindicating my heresy on the Prophet (of Truth) by deactivating his hover chair and getting the glowing orb that monitors the Bloodstars to admit that the Bloodstars are weapons designed to wipe out all life in this galaxy.

Ahem. Disclaimer: The above might not necessarily reflect the actual plots regarding the Bloodstars, or any opinions possessed by followers of Sanguis Astroism.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Chenier on June 15, 2011, 12:46:15 PM
Springdale was an awfully long time ago, but I am inclined to believe you on that account. In recent times however, that seed has really been watered by Thulsoma's propaganda machine. Hatred of SA has become noticeably more virulent and unrelenting since the beginning of the Thulsoma affair. The ironic part is that those who hate SA have a tendency to be just as fanatical about it as they accuse SA of being, if not more so in fact. Rowan was a pretty moderate character, but Averoth and Caerwyn in the end refused to deal with him and succumbed to paranoid fantasies about non-existent SA plots. Averoth was offered unconditional peace, but never responded. As for Caerwyn, Rowan made several concessions, from peace talks with Averoth to rewriting the Brotherhood of Theocracies treaty. In the end however it turned out that Caerwyn was planning for war the entire time, apparently irregardless of anything Astrum could do to reassure them.

Ah well, I can't complain about how things are working out in the end.

Thulsoma might have fueled the fire already there. I honestly was never reached or greatly affected by Thulsoma propaganda, other than the desolating stories of 10 realms ganging up on a 1-duchy realm, which honestly spoke a hell of a lot more than anything the tyrannic Thulsomians ever said.

Not many remain from Springdale, I'd imagine, but they probably did all the groundwork about "See what happens when you let SA get a foothold in your realm: they grow as a cancer and make you fall to your knees from within, the masses of zealots then come in for the killing blow."
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Indirik on June 15, 2011, 01:40:26 PM
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Indirik on June 15, 2011, 01:44:30 PM
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Geronus on June 15, 2011, 02:38:14 PM
In fact things are working out so well, you have to question the non-existent SA plots. After all how could so many rulers make such poor choices time and time again :)

I know, it's like a gift that keeps on giving. I will say this though - this whole affair has kept Dwilight fresh and interesting for months and months now.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Galvez on June 16, 2011, 02:26:23 AM
I am happy as long as you do not spread your heretical ways to Barca.  ;)
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: De-Legro on June 16, 2011, 03:28:41 AM
I am happy as long as you do not spread your heretical ways to Barca.  ;)

You cannot control where the seed of truth will spread. And once there are those that believe it is the duty of the priest to ensure they are properly instructed. If that instruction just happens to convert the thinking of their neighbours as well, thems the breaks
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Chenier on June 16, 2011, 04:12:25 AM
What killed Springdale was internal dissent and apathy.

I would disagree and rather say a foolish ruler who let himself be manipulated against his council's explicit wishes.

You're just jealous that you don't have 10 realms to deal to call on to deal with your enemies. :P

Actually, Thulsoma got exactly what they wanted: A war against Sanguis Astroism. And so did Averoth, too.

Honestly, what do you expect? If you attack someone, they attack back. When that "someone" happens to be a religion that encompasses four or five realms, then you get four or five realms coming back at you. If Thulsoma (or Averoth) had managed to specifically target their war at one individual realm, as opposed to the entire faith, then they would have fought one single realm.

If a kid goes and shoves around a bully and gets a beating for it, you kinda feel pity for him but feel he deserved it in a way. When a kid shoves around a bunch of bullies and all of them give him the beating of his life, you'd judge the gang of bullies a lot harsher than you would have a lone bully. Imo, at least. This is what the Thulsoma story felt like. Sure, they kinda asked for it. But ganging up so badly on such a tiny realm? I can't see how anyone would not shake their heads at this.

As I don't have any military ambitions for Dwilight, I really couldn't care less about having 10 brutes behind me or not.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Bedwyr on June 16, 2011, 04:16:39 AM
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Chenier on June 16, 2011, 04:37:55 AM
The abuse they pulled removed all sympathy I felt.  It took that many realms to crack the bogus armies they managed to build.

Which honestly says more on the bunch of bullies than on them. Anyone with the least bit of pride would not have participated in this gang bang...
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: [email protected] on June 16, 2011, 04:40:20 AM
If the bullied one had any pride, it wouldn't have resorted to cheap exploits just to hold out. They'd die with proper grace fitting for nobility.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Bedwyr on June 16, 2011, 04:42:44 AM
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Chenier on June 16, 2011, 05:19:33 AM
Are you unaware of the blatant and ridiculous ways they abused the family gold system and new characters to get several thousand (I believe in the tens of thousands) gold?

Yes. So? Gold alone doesn't recruit an army, soldiers don't pop out of thin air. And family coffers eventually deplete themselves. As long as there weren't any multies involved (which honestly would seem doubtful to me, but I don't know much of the situation), I don't really have a problem with families massively funding realms. It's not a limitless supply, after all, and someone somewhere is paying for that support.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Bedwyr on June 16, 2011, 05:38:19 AM
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Chenier on June 16, 2011, 05:58:45 AM
You are unaware then.  They discovered an exploit where they could raid their family gold via visiting the aunt and sending the gold away or into a guild/temple and drop it to incredibly low levels.  The game then immediately began auto-replenishing the family gold to get in the neighborhood of a thousand gold.  How many of them were multis is unclear, as the situation was and is quite tangled, but the system only worked because they had a /lot/ of new families starting with their family home in Thulsoma, so make of that what you will.

In other words, using brand new families they managed to scam several thousand gold out of the game and didn't even lose any honour because they went through the visit the aunt feature.  The exploit was closed, but that got them a lot of gold to play with, and combined with various other schemes (starting a new character to get the starter troops, then pause/delete and start a new character to get starter troops as an example) got them an army several orders of magnitude larger than they could have had otherwise.

I was aware of the loop to take out more gold than normal, but not that this was game-generated gold. Honestly, I don't even see the point of poor families getting extra wealth: takes wealth to make wealth, it this was just abused by many over time. Thulsoma aren't the first to do this.

I generally dislike IC actions being taken to compensate OOC actions, though. Bolts would have been more appropriate than sending 5 extra armies.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Bedwyr on June 16, 2011, 06:08:57 AM
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Jhaelen Irsei on June 16, 2011, 11:23:32 AM
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Nosferatus on June 16, 2011, 11:33:09 AM

I think smart players can fight SA alliance maybe breaking the ties between the realms, SA is all but not monolithic, it could shatter in pieces sooner or later who knows..(Morek had a civil war recently).


I am quite surprised that Thulsoma, Averoth and Cearwyn don't seem to put energy into this kind of indirect warfare.
If only two of the allies would not be able to join the fight and Cearwyn adjusts to the right strategies, the alliance won't be able to really destroy Cearwyn that easy as they could now.

Obviously down south, no one really cares (yet).
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Chenier on June 16, 2011, 12:48:17 PM
I am quite surprised that Thulsoma, Averoth and Cearwyn don't seem to put energy into this kind of indirect warfare.
If only two of the allies would not be able to join the fight and Cearwyn adjusts to the right strategies, the alliance won't be able to really destroy Cearwyn that easy as they could now.

Obviously down south, no one really cares (yet).

We are all too busy.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Sacha on June 16, 2011, 01:07:43 PM
You make it sound like you could make a difference even if you wanted to :P
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Indirik on June 16, 2011, 02:34:49 PM
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Sacha on June 16, 2011, 03:15:01 PM
If I saw some skinny dork run up to a bunch of gangsters and insult them and their mothers, I'd just think 'What a moron' and consider the beating he's gonna get a well-deserved one. Rule #1 of politics: if you're gonna have a big mouth, you'd better have the force to back it up.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Nosferatus on June 16, 2011, 05:23:51 PM
You make it sound like you could make a difference even if you wanted to :P

Well yeah, we all can, but it takes allot of effort.
Know your enemy, then exploit his weakness.
You can do this on the battlefield and out of the battlefield, which the later is much more effective :P
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Anaris on June 16, 2011, 07:57:25 PM
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Geronus on June 16, 2011, 10:40:08 PM
Yes, Storm's Keep had level 7 walls, and Thulsoma with 20 nobles could field 8kCS on the back of a total realm income that probably never exceeded 500 gold a week on a good week, and probably averaged closer to less than 250, especially as they lost their outer regions. As Indirik pointed out, we did not all show up at once to kick them down with overwhelming force. The war escalated gradually as it became clear that Thulsoma was not your average one-region realm.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Chenier on June 16, 2011, 11:54:38 PM
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Geronus on June 17, 2011, 06:11:16 AM
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: vanKaya on June 17, 2011, 01:43:01 PM
Honestly I don't know what everyone's complaining about. The fact that SA rolls around and [email protected]#$s [email protected]#$ up if you're a heathen is epic!!!! It makes for great role-play and deepens dwilights culture immensely. Maybe it's just cause we feel safe from crusades in Terran that I feel this way but honestly I think that anyone talking about how awful it was that they were "gang banged" ( stupid term) is focussed to much on winning battle master and not enough on making the most of a situation that can potentially be loads of fun, for both sides.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Rogi on June 17, 2011, 03:55:17 PM
It's curious to see in what kind of discussion this topic ended...  :D
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Vaylon Kenadell on June 17, 2011, 03:55:22 PM
Honestly I don't know what everyone's complaining about. The fact that SA rolls around and [email protected]#$s [email protected]#$ up if you're a heathen is epic!!!! It makes for great role-play and deepens dwilights culture immensely. Maybe it's just cause we feel safe from crusades in Terran that I feel this way but honestly I think that anyone talking about how awful it was that they were "gang banged" ( stupid term) is focussed to much on winning battle master and not enough on making the most of a situation that can potentially be loads of fun, for both sides.

I agree. Smaller realms could simply pay tribute (and lip service) to SA, bide their time, maybe even infiltrate their ranks... waiting for the right time to strike. Or defect to them, betray your realm, get out when the getting is good. The possibilities for roleplay and interaction are unlimited, no matter who is "winning."
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Fleugs on June 17, 2011, 04:00:58 PM
I agree. Smaller realms could simply pay tribute (and lip service) to SA, bide their time, maybe even infiltrate their ranks... waiting for the right time to strike. Or defect to them, betray your realm, get out when the getting is good. The possibilities for roleplay and interaction are unlimited, no matter who is "winning."

That would be so awesome. But most realms have "too much pride". They refuse to convert and/or pay tribute and so they decide to fight until they die. Which is a shame, really. It would make for even better roleplay to have "subject" kingdoms.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: vonGenf on June 17, 2011, 04:05:18 PM
I agree. Smaller realms could simply pay tribute (and lip service) to SA, bide their time, maybe even infiltrate their ranks... waiting for the right time to strike. Or defect to them, betray your realm, get out when the getting is good. The possibilities for roleplay and interaction are unlimited, no matter who is "winning."

What gave you the idea that we ask for tribute?  :o
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Vaylon Kenadell on June 17, 2011, 04:12:11 PM
What gave you the idea that we ask for tribute?  :o

I was just thinking of an example from history of the relationship between Vietnam and China. While they did war with one another occasionally, Vietnam was a tributary and protectorate state of China, off and on, for many centuries.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Indirik on June 17, 2011, 04:15:48 PM
It's curious to see in what kind of discussion this topic ended...  :D
It's the BattleMaster equivalent of Godwin's Law:  "As a thread on the BattleMaster forum regarding Dwilight or Religion grows longer, the probability of it turning to a discussion of Sanguis Astroism approaches 1 (100%)."
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Fleugs on June 17, 2011, 04:32:31 PM
I was just thinking of an example from history of the relationship between Vietnam and China. While they did war with one another occasionally, Vietnam was a tributary and protectorate state of China, off and on, for many centuries.

Everything in the Chinese neighbourhood was a tributary state of China.(until Japan became an Empire itself). That's just how the Chinese rolled.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: vanKaya on June 17, 2011, 04:33:49 PM
Haha indeed.

Sooo how is Barca holding up anyway? Its held on to all it'd regions, that's a plus. Really though you guys should take advantage of the support from Terran and D'hara more than simply letting us know whenever there's monster literally in the region at that moment. Usually such short notice requests arent fulfilled cause it takes a certain amount of time to organize needed troops and then a certain amount of time to actually get to you and usually by then the monsters have peaced.

That being said I don't really know what kind of system would work better and regardless it should be handled IC...
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Geronus on June 17, 2011, 04:35:25 PM
I agree. Smaller realms could simply pay tribute (and lip service) to SA, bide their time, maybe even infiltrate their ranks... waiting for the right time to strike. Or defect to them, betray your realm, get out when the getting is good. The possibilities for roleplay and interaction are unlimited, no matter who is "winning."

This isn't even that difficult honestly. Take Terran for example. SA loves Terran, and all because they have a couple token members and temples there. You know why that makes such a big impression? Because most realms won't have anything to do with us. We are a proselytizing church after all. The doors are always open to converts.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: vanKaya on June 17, 2011, 04:41:14 PM
Aww I didn't know SA loved Terran . Now I'm getting all bashful.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: dustole on June 17, 2011, 05:47:36 PM
I think that the Terran who was made an Elder of the church was made one because they were a Terran.   Labell has been a priest for a long long time and the peasantry following in Terran hasn't really changed in a long time.   It isn't the only reason Labell was made an Elder, but him being from the south was a big part.

Terran has 2 SA followers and both have been fairly active in the religion.   Because of that, a lot of nobles from the north would help them if they ever needed it.  I'm surprised that more realms don't pay lip service to SA.  We don't even make our members pay a monthly gold fee.  I imagine there are already many nobles in SA who are merely there for political reasons.   1/3 of our Elders are elected by the full members of the church and anyone can be a full member just by asking.  There is actually some benefit to joining the church.  The politics of it all can be quite intriguing.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Adriddae on June 17, 2011, 06:09:48 PM
This isn't even that difficult honestly. Take Terran for example. SA loves Terran, and all because they have a couple token members and temples there. You know why that makes such a big impression? Because most realms won't have anything to do with us. We are a proselytizing church after all. The doors are always open to converts.

I think its because most realms feel if you give Sanguis Astroism a foot in the door, they would eventually corrupt the whole realm and turn it into a theocracy. They won't even want to have a priest or a temple for fear of it spreading too far and too much. Like a disease.  ;D
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: dustole on June 17, 2011, 06:41:35 PM
At some point you would think other realms would look at Libero Empire, Summerdale and Terran.   We aren't the big bad monster that some make us out to be.   Well,  we would be if Allison had her way...  but that is unlikely to happen.  Caerwyn and crew is making it easier to convince followers to be more warlike.  I doubt it will be possible to trick any other realms into declaring war on the church. 

At some point SA will spread across all of Dwilight.  We won't get temples in every region, but we will get followers in every realm and hopefully at least 1 temple in every realm.  That is what I fear the most.  Because that is when we will turn on each other. Actually, that kinda sounds fun.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: DoctorHarte on June 17, 2011, 10:24:53 PM
At some point you would think other realms would look at Libero Empire, Summerdale and Terran.   We aren't the big bad monster that some make us out to be.   Well,  we would be if Allison had her way...  but that is unlikely to happen.  Caerwyn and crew is making it easier to convince followers to be more warlike.  I doubt it will be possible to trick any other realms into declaring war on the church. 

At some point SA will spread across all of Dwilight.  We won't get temples in every region, but we will get followers in every realm and hopefully at least 1 temple in every realm.  That is what I fear the most.  Because that is when we will turn on each other. Actually, that kinda sounds fun.

It's fun to fight back, too :D Especially when you have fresh prisoners each battle. During peace being judge can get very boring  :-\
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Chenier on June 18, 2011, 01:13:24 AM
We were patient. As an outsider, you really have no idea what happened and how long this process was. I appreciate that the end result was not good PR (due in no small part to efforts by Thulsoma's players to spread misinformation), but this affair went on for months. Most people outside the north probably didn't hear about it until it reached the epic proportions that it did at the very end, which took a long time. We eventually grew tired of being insulted and mocked and stalemated on level 7 walls that they never should have had in the first place if they weren't abusing game mechanics. I'm sure that the closing of the loophole had an effect on the war, but honestly I don't even know when that happened in relation to everything else. Do you know why? Because I treated it IC the entire time. We thought they would be easily dispatched. We were wrong. So, we gradually escalated things until we were forced to bring in the full force of 3-4 realms just to end things. This is not in any way a testament to Thulsoma, rather it is an indication of just how serious their abuses were.

Please understand that OOC, I really don't care. I honestly don't. Though I've gotten myself a nice position through wise political players over an extended period of time, Dwilight never was were I dump most of my game time on. OOC, I understand everything that happened there. But nothing that is said on these forums will change my IC feeling towards it.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: [email protected] on June 18, 2011, 01:30:49 AM
So....intentionally being stubborn about it. You know, this isn't the only place on Dwilight where you've been rather stubborn to the facts...
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Sacha on June 18, 2011, 01:41:48 AM
It's the BattleMaster equivalent of Godwin's Law:  "As a thread on the BattleMaster forum regarding Dwilight or Religion grows longer, the probability of it turning to a discussion of Sanguis Astroism approaches 1 (100%)."

Now we just wait until the Super Godwin's Law kicks in and somebody compares SA to Nazi Germany.

Oh shi-
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Chenier on June 18, 2011, 05:31:52 AM
So....intentionally being stubborn about it. You know, this isn't the only place on Dwilight where you've been rather stubborn to the facts...

No... I don't really give a [email protected]#$ about SA as a player. Not caring for the facts and not buying them aren't the same thing.

And because, you know, I can differentiate my characters from myself, perhaps? SA isn't the best religion around, and often is used in simplistic arguments to manipulate debates on religions, but they at least play by the same rules and game mechanics as everyone else.

What I'm saying is not to get all emotional to defend the honour of SA in this conflict OOC, it'd be the equivalent of going to someone who doesn't give a [email protected]#$ about politics to preach to him about how much better your political party is than your rival's. You just can't sway someone who doesn't care.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Heq on June 18, 2011, 07:43:01 AM
Chenier, you know that's not true.  We're Canadian and as such we have a holy duty to harrass/bribe people who don't agree that whatever party we support is the best so they pretend to agree so we go away.  Then we campaign for our side on the basis that everyone says they like us.

The only people who can't be swayed are government analysts.  We are bastions of morality and never, ever, twist results or have party alligiances.

(apologies to everyone who doesn't live on the Canadian East Coast for the inside joke)
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Chenier on June 19, 2011, 07:17:23 PM
The ROC decided to massively elect a party with total disdain for democracy and transparency, and on the provincial level it's an even bigger circus right now. Canadian politics are mind-numbing, to say the very least.

Can't wait to see our tax money spent on the visit of the royal family...  >:(
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: egamma on June 24, 2011, 08:22:20 AM
http://satwcomic.com/ (http://satwcomic.com/)

Need I say more?
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: [email protected] on June 24, 2011, 02:38:27 PM
Barca has almost the same CS as Asylon. Good stuff.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Chenier on June 24, 2011, 05:44:21 PM
http://satwcomic.com/ (http://satwcomic.com/)

Need I say more?

lol, awesome.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Karnen on July 05, 2011, 11:35:56 AM
Barca has almost the same CS as Asylon. Good stuff.

How is that even possible?
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Chenier on July 05, 2011, 01:17:32 PM
I agree, why ain't it more?  8)
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Carna on July 05, 2011, 10:39:14 PM
Royal visit? Yeah, we had one of them. Ignore the fact that our economy is one of the worst in the world... :(

Barca is doing well though. There was a point where it wasn't likely to survive for very long, but as long as they can get a few more nobles, they look to be doing just what they intended and have a lot of potential to grow. That is what is holding them back too though, from what I can tell.

Finton.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Perth on July 06, 2011, 07:37:37 AM
Barca is doing well though. There was a point where it wasn't likely to survive for very long, but as long as they can get a few more nobles, they look to be doing just what they intended and have a lot of potential to grow. That is what is holding them back too though, from what I can tell.

Yep. Take a number.   :-\
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Carna on July 06, 2011, 07:21:40 PM
Heh, true. And yet I'm surprised Barca isn't more popular. Regions without claims that go back years. The one-noble rule though does ensure difficult times though, but given that the player-base needs expanding again, to be expected I suppose. Also part of the fun :)

Finton.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Sacha on July 06, 2011, 07:28:48 PM
It's also a tiny realm with only 4 regions. New people tend to join larger, more established realms. I imagine that glory in Barca is on the low end of the spectrum, and that it's listed as not really needing nobles to fill its estates.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Geronus on July 06, 2011, 07:37:01 PM
It's also a tiny realm with only 4 regions. New people tend to join larger, more established realms. I imagine that glory in Barca is on the low end of the spectrum, and that it's listed as not really needing nobles to fill its estates.

With all the monsters they must be fighting, I would be surprised to learn that their glory rating is low - but you are no doubt right about the estates.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Carna on July 06, 2011, 07:38:54 PM
11 nobles, 4 regions (including a small city). I suspect they're short a noble or two for ideal circumstances, and could hold a handful more if they showed up before they could expand. I was more pointing towards established players who are starting new characters. I'm not sure new players really pay attention to glory so much as size and what sort of realm description it had. At least my experience. There's never an end of Knights and Dames hoping to get their hands on a region (for obvious reasons), hence my slightly exaggerated surprise.

Finton.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Geronus on July 06, 2011, 07:44:36 PM
11 nobles, 4 regions (including a small city). I suspect they're short a noble or two for ideal circumstances, and could hold a handful more if they showed up before they could expand. I was more pointing towards established players who are starting new characters. I'm not sure new players really pay attention to glory so much as size and what sort of realm description it had. At least my experience. There's never an end of Knights and Dames hoping to get their hands on a region (for obvious reasons), hence my slightly exaggerated surprise.

Finton.

I joined Astrum as a relatively new player when it was three regions and a month old because it seemed exciting to join a brand new endeavor. I don't recall thinking of lordships at the time.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: JPierreD on July 07, 2011, 06:18:38 AM
It's quite hard to establish a reason for why people join realms, actually. My choice had nothing to do with size or glory, actually.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Perth on July 07, 2011, 07:24:59 AM
It's quite hard to establish a reason for why people join realms, actually. My choice had nothing to do with size or glory, actually.

I'm pretty sure when I first joined BM, I chose Eston because I liked their banner.

I've joined other realms because I've liked their size, shape, or geographic location.

Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Chenier on July 07, 2011, 07:29:24 AM
I'm pretty sure when I first joined BM, I chose Eston because I liked their banner.

I've joined other realms because I've liked their size, shape, or geographic location.

I picked Sadovar purely because of geographic location.

I picked my first realms on another's recommendations. I picked the rest of my other realms based on my knowledge of the continent's politics and my goals.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Vellos on July 08, 2011, 04:41:25 AM
My first realms:

In my first account, I picked Rancagua, 3 days before Kazakh was stormed. I wanted a small, struggling realm. I deleted that account soon after.

In the Vellos Family:
1. Sartania- Small, theocracy sounded cool
2. Norland- Vikings sounded neat
3. Barony of Makar- See above
4. Caligus- I have no idea what motivated this one.

Next wave:
1. Oligarch- Entirely random. Hireshmont was fleeing FEI, and I kind of just picked a random realm.
2. Batesaor- Small, struggling realm, and pirates were neat
3. Principality of Zonasa- One of the coolest names for any realm in BM
4. Valentia- I seem to remember picking this one somehow based on a wiki page. Not entirely sure, but I think that was it; coordinated move there with some Sartanian refugees.
3.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Rogi on July 08, 2011, 05:47:32 PM
It's obvious for those nobles in Barca that we are living now better moments, as we have grown a bit. It's cool to take a look to our food production that is starting to grow, as our regions, but our economy (at least as a knight) is very low and this makes our defense difficult. We have lots, lots, sorry, did I say lots? of monsters in this part of dwilight in winter, and it's quite frustrating to see that our allies come to help us when we have a big invasion, we clear the regions, and one week after it we have all our regions invaded again, this resumes the winter in Barca quite well. Of course our high travel times between regions don't help.

On the other hand we are in constant fights against monsters and undead which makes the honour go up very fast. The future under my point of view can be very promising if we manage to grow a bit more and be able to defend us by our own, and for this Barca will need at least some more nobles.

Under my point of view new characters would have more possibilities in a small and expanding realm where you fight battles for expansion and have more option to get promoted as in a established realm where you find characters with lots of experience and you find more difficulties to promote and become glorious.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: vanKaya on July 20, 2011, 01:04:01 PM
So I hope I don't jinx this but it seems like Barca may make it out of winter with all three regions intact. Which is especially nice since we initially thought Celtiberia would be a long shot. Of course this is just my outside perspective looking in from Terran. How are things going from inside Barca?

Also I haven't seen the D'haran military in and around Barca, have I just been missing them or was I mistaken when I thought we would all be contributing to defending the Barcans until they got on their feet?
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Telrunya on July 20, 2011, 04:10:22 PM
D'Hara's General just stepped down due RL getting too busy and that's why D'Hara has seen little action. The TMP is now hitting D'Hara so hopefully we can get some action soon.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: vanKaya on July 20, 2011, 04:17:37 PM
Just station troops in Barca and wait! Something always come crawling out of the Marwood

And the Barcans are so pleasant and thankful it's genuinely a nice experience helping them and working with them  :)

Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Telrunya on July 20, 2011, 06:20:44 PM
We know. D'Hara kinda helped setting you up. Actually we had grander plans, but oh well. This has worked too :D
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Zakilevo on July 20, 2011, 10:47:34 PM
Sgin.. if I didn't get appointed to a duke I would have joined Barca.. Sounds fun..
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Vellos on July 21, 2011, 02:09:11 AM
We know. D'Hara kinda helped setting you up. Actually we had grander plans, but oh well. This has worked too :D

Grander plans, good sir, that I believe you messed up by getting made ruler or some nonsense like that.

Just station troops in Barca and wait! Something always come crawling out of the Marwood

And the Barcans are so pleasant and thankful it's genuinely a nice experience helping them and working with them  :)



Couldn't agree more. Barca is a pleasure to work with. They're active and cooperative, thankful and communicative, and have an interesting angle on things. The recent maneuvering about Triunism in Thysan has been quite fun for me as well.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Telrunya on July 21, 2011, 01:19:00 PM
Guilty as charged :(
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: cjnodell on July 21, 2011, 04:48:59 PM
From the inside things are going well. We are still working on streamlining things. For example, we are finally producing a surplus of food but have no food distribution system in place. That is something I am actively working on.

We are truly getting the hang of "getting things done" despite the limitations we face. Of course, all built on the support of Terran and D'hara.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: egamma on July 21, 2011, 07:30:54 PM
From the inside things are going well. We are still working on streamlining things. For example, we are finally producing a surplus of food but have no food distribution system in place. That is something I am actively working on.

We are truly getting the hang of "getting things done" despite the limitations we face. Of course, all built on the support of Terran and D'hara.

well, that's good timing...
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: cjnodell on July 22, 2011, 09:22:12 PM
To take a page from Asylon's book, I am curious to hear how how you all fell about Barca right now? Perspectives from both Barcans and outsiders are welcome!

I personally find things to be a bit too quiet. It is almost as if most people have regulated their character in Barca to a secondary "do the bare minimum" role. Getting anyone interested in debate, role play, planning, or anything else beyond sending orders and following them is quite difficult.

At the same time I am very satisfied with the progress we have made and continue to make. What needs to be don is getting done well, if nothing else. I am eager to see the realm blossom a little and become a bit more "fun"!
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Indirik on July 22, 2011, 09:42:04 PM
Barca? Well, from here up north you're not big enough, and haven't survived long enough, to bother thinking about. You're, what, the third realm to try and survive in the Rettlewood area?

But your ruler is rude. ;)
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: JPierreD on July 22, 2011, 09:46:35 PM
Sounds very interesting to me. It would be a realm I wouldn't mind visiting and trying in the future, if it survives, of course.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Rogi on July 22, 2011, 10:05:03 PM
From inside of Barca I can say that, at least in the recent weeks things are changing for better. Upon entering the winter we suffered a pretty big invasion of monsters and undead. It seemed possible that part of the progress made during the summer and spring came down, but with the help of our allies and a bit of luck, we have emerged stronger from this situation. At the end we have lost nothing of the progress made, and we have progressed more. Now we have an adequate infrastructure with which to work, and we begin to have some incomes to spend on our military, which is beginning to give us a little military autonomy, despite the help of our allies is always welcome and rewarding.

Our regions begin to grow more and more, which is shown in our production of food and gold. Never before have we earned what we are earning now.

In personal terms, I am delighted to interact with both of our allies. We are a small republic with few people now, and this sometimes means that there is not much RP (which could be improved with some enthusiasm). In this sense, constant communication and coordination with our allies helps a lot, since we are not locked in internal communications. I think I can say on behalf of many who began the history of Barca, that our past in Terran allowed us to establish personal ties with the nobles of there, which shows the bond we have now.

I personally find things to be a bit too quiet. It is almost as if most people have regulated their character in Barca to a secondary "do the bare minimum" role. Getting anyone interested in debate, role play, planning, or anything else beyond sending orders and following them is quite difficult.

I have to agree a bit with this idea. I would enjoy much if people discuss (politely) on new proposals to improve our realm. Personally I have proposed some ideas, and we have never discussed it firmly.

Reguarding the future, I would like to see Barca expand a bit more (at least controling two more regions). I think if we could growing and don't find too much troubles or too hard troubles this winter we could expand easily. From my point of view, the greatest difficulty we have now for it is the lack of noble and estates to control the regions properly.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Chenier on July 23, 2011, 12:21:17 AM
I wish D'Hara's army would help you guys more. :(
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: vanKaya on July 23, 2011, 01:04:27 AM
I think D'hara's making a comeback in terms of military aide to Barca. There was a bit of a lull for a while but i think the strong presence you guys made in Thysan is signs of good things to come. Ive tried to open up some communication with the D'haran general cause, as others have said, inter realm coordination is always fun.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Vellos on July 23, 2011, 01:07:41 AM
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Carna on July 23, 2011, 01:08:02 AM
Most realms have the problem of not as much nobles as they'd like. Barca isn't doing too badly though. Small city and three other regions, with eleven nobles. That's a better situation than a lot of realms from just a quick glance at the realm list and considering the estate support bigger cities require.

Frankly, I'd disagree with the quietness part. Barca has an army now, and Laia's to be commended on keeping things moving there. Think of the previous winter. Barca was down to a single region - Rettleville - at one point. I don't recall a single message being sent through the Senate at that time while now, as mentioned a few posts back, there's discussion on the likes of food supply. Last winter, Barca was definiately a case of just tip away and keep things going. And that's what was needed. It got Barca through the winter. The same is true again, but to a lesser degree and hopefully that will continue into a trend where steadily things improve and the increased travel times, increased monster/undead and decreased region stats will become less and less an issue.

No realm in Dwilight is completely safe, and Barca certainly won't claim anything even close for some time to come, but things arn't going so badly either. At least in my view.

Finton.

P.S. Vellos, think we can start talking defaults for Barca? (",)
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Sabrier on July 23, 2011, 05:25:40 AM
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Vellos on July 23, 2011, 07:33:38 AM
The ranks reflect rank in realms. All rulers and dukes in Terran, Barca, and D'Hara are entitled to elderships. All council-level posts are entitled to full membership. Lords and below are applicants.

Problem with guild treasuries is local taxation: taxes sap out a big chunk, allowing the local duke to accumulate vast surpluses (case in point: me). The only viable banking institution is one that can readily accumulate assets, such as through favorable tax status and alternative income sources.

Oh, yeah, a religion.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Perth on July 23, 2011, 09:22:07 AM
Barca?

*shrugs*

Shoulda just been a part of Terran if you ask me.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: vanKaya on July 23, 2011, 01:18:41 PM
Barca?

*shrugs*

Shoulda just been a part of Terran if you ask me.

I don't know how I feel about this. Perhaps currently it would make sense if, theoretically speaking, Barca was a part of Terran since they're not self sufficient and would probably have an easier time defending the area if they could use our RCs. But once they are set up it will free up the Lowlands almost entirely allowing us to help expand into the north which, with Caerwyn falling, is very viable for us. A buffer around Shoka will allow for enormous growth in Shokalom, more than we would gain from holding Rettlewood.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Vellos on July 23, 2011, 06:22:54 PM
I don't know how I feel about this. Perhaps currently it would make sense if, theoretically speaking, Barca was a part of Terran since they're not self sufficient and would probably have an easier time defending the area if they could use our RCs. But once they are set up it will free up the Lowlands almost entirely allowing us to help expand into the north which, with Caerwyn falling, is very viable for us. A buffer around Shoka will allow for enormous growth in Shokalom, more than we would gain from holding Rettlewood.

More importantly, a weak or nonexistent Caerwyn will be less able to contain monster-spawns. Meaning that, as Caerwyn weakens, the pressure of monsters on our northern borders will increase. Thus, even to hold what we presently have, we will need a continually escalating supply of strength, which will have to come from our southern front and from new holdings in the north.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Perth on July 23, 2011, 07:24:48 PM
I don't know how I feel about this.

Lol. I was mostly joking/being an imperialist.

My character rarely even enters our southern Duchy these days and so oddly Barca seems very far away from me most of the time.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on July 23, 2011, 07:31:11 PM
More kingdoms the merrier!.... for drama, I might add.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Chenier on July 23, 2011, 07:32:17 PM
I see Barca like my raspberries in the yard. Some good caring and it gives tasty fruits. I could live without it, and it could live without me, but we are both happier and healthier for it.  8)
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Vellos on July 23, 2011, 07:37:07 PM
Lol. I was mostly joking/being an imperialist.

My character rarely even enters our southern Duchy these days and so oddly Barca seems very far away from me most of the time.

Indeed. It has increasingly occurred to me that my character virtually never goes north. I spend tons of time in Rettleville, Paisly, etc, but very little in Shokalom.

Maybe our armies should swap duty assignments come summer in order to get a change of scenery?
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Carna on July 23, 2011, 08:55:34 PM
Or the southern Duchy could secede to Barca...
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: vanKaya on July 23, 2011, 11:38:53 PM
Lol. I was mostly joking/being an imperialist.

My character rarely even enters our southern Duchy these days and so oddly Barca seems very far away from me most of the time.

Haha ah dang it.. Sarcasm on the Internet is just the worst..
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Rogi on July 24, 2011, 12:15:24 AM
Or the southern Duchy could secede to Barca...

I would like to see Barca expand on their own in the future to the south and west, instead of gaining regions by secesion.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Carna on July 24, 2011, 12:28:34 AM
Yeah, cause I genuinely thought that would be a possibility  :o

Still, plenty of space to expand, and civilized lands make life easier.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: vanKaya on July 24, 2011, 12:34:34 AM
Yeah, cause I genuinely thought that would be a possibility  :o

Still, plenty of space to expand, and civilized lands make life easier.

Sarcasm on the internet strikes again!! Oh when oh when will the confusion end.


But on another note,

Where's Barca gonna expand to next and when, theoretically, do you think it will happen?
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Carna on July 24, 2011, 12:42:55 AM
Nark. They're producing an excess of food, so they don't need another rural region. Nark will produce gold, and get them closer to a second city that they've been looking at since they founded.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Telrunya on July 24, 2011, 12:45:47 AM
Get more Rurals, get more Food! D'Hara wants it :D
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Rogi on July 24, 2011, 12:58:28 AM
I think Kydonia and Nark are both interesting regions. Nark brings Barca nearer to Twainwood and Twainville. Anyway to hold another city it would be a good idea to have a region as Kydonia. This region would also bring us closer to Evanburg and close our borders to the south.

Both options are interesting. About when, I think the first step is survive and come out in good conditions from the winter, and then look forward to expand us.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Vellos on July 24, 2011, 01:08:10 AM
Get more rurals to make more safe non-border regions! Terran wants to not have to think about its southern border.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Perth on July 24, 2011, 09:33:02 AM
Indeed. It has increasingly occurred to me that my character virtually never goes north. I spend tons of time in Rettleville, Paisly, etc, but very little in Shokalom.

Maybe our armies should swap duty assignments come summer in order to get a change of scenery?

I literally cannot remember the last time Kale was south of Saffalore.

Get more rurals to make more safe non-border regions! Terran wants to not have to think about its southern border.

Especially so that Terran can look toward more northern expansion. If we get a few more nobles, Inklen is looking attractive. And once we have Inklen, we all of a sudden have a border with Asylon, which is weird. And kinda icky.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Chenier on July 24, 2011, 04:28:54 PM
Get more Rurals, get more Food! D'Hara wants it :D
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Carna on July 24, 2011, 04:50:44 PM
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Sabrier on July 24, 2011, 06:03:09 PM
Yeah the way I see it, selling a rural's food to Barca can probably make just as much gold as Nark can.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Carna on July 24, 2011, 06:55:04 PM
D'Hara's also said to have two problems. Starvation and TMP. If Barca can help alleviate the food deficit, it'd help D'Hara solve the TMP issue by assisting Barca more than they have recently. Winter is over in 4 days, which should help too with improved travel times. Something the Barcan leadership should probably be discussing, and conferring with their allies.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Telrunya on July 24, 2011, 07:31:48 PM
D'Hara's problems were mostly due lack of coordination since our General was busy IRL. With our new General, we already have troops back to fighting. I expect D'Hara to be fully back soon. D'Hara worries mostly about food, but we did well this Winter :)
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Vellos on July 24, 2011, 08:25:42 PM
Barca probably has enough nobles (or will have enough) to maintain 2 more regions. The obvious choices are Nark and Kydonia, as both are still semi-close to the capital, reasonably supportable by allies, and, if taken, they leave Rettlewood sheltered from major attacks. If Aurvandil took Lusitania and Barca took Kydonia, then Celtiberia would be sheltered as well. Under such circumstances of rising population, good allied support, a ready market for food, and no immediate monster threats, Celtiberia could become a major food exporter.

In fact, Celtiberia has the highest food production of any region in the currently settled Maroccidental realms. Nark and Kydonia (then Aurvandil in Lusitania) would allow it to become a goldmine for Barca and significantly shorten Paisly's supply lines.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Chenier on July 24, 2011, 08:31:19 PM
D'Hara's problems were mostly due lack of coordination since our General was busy IRL. With our new General, we already have troops back to fighting. I expect D'Hara to be fully back soon. D'Hara worries mostly about food, but we did well this Winter :)

Yea, we are in fights already.

Now, if only I had better estate coverage for production...

And if only I still had infrastructure...
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: vanKaya on July 24, 2011, 10:47:05 PM
Is Aurvandil ready to take another region though?
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Sabrier on July 24, 2011, 10:55:37 PM
Is Aurvandil going to be alive much longer? It seemed like it for a bit, but the talk in the Madinan civil war thread seems to indicate otherwise. But maybe that's just Madinans talking themselves up.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: vanKaya on July 24, 2011, 11:19:47 PM
It'll be a stalemate at best for a long while just by looking at military stats. Aurvandil's really shooting themselves in the foot though by having ZERO interaction with their neighbors who could potentially aide them immensely and probably have, or at least had at one point, the will to do so.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: [email protected] on July 24, 2011, 11:30:29 PM
I wonder why they can't just agree to a division of territories. I mean, Madina has that entire island that is completely self-sufficient. They have what I think to be the best geographical location for a stable realm that can afford to go on overseas quests against monsters to rid themselves of potential TMP. They have highly defensible entry points in Madina and Tower Fatmilak as well.

Pride, maybe. Meh. Leave it to the silly humans lol.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Carna on July 24, 2011, 11:45:32 PM
Yeah, Celtiberia is definitely a region to love. Its partially why I suspected and still suspect that Nark will be the first of the two taken. Celtiberia's population is shooting up while being the only thing limiting improvement in production. It is or will be pumping out food, especially after winter has ended. Barca won't be short food to export, so the other reasons to take Nark will spring up. Even cosmetic reasons :)

I think Aurvandil's wiki claims to have some good relations with Barca and D'Hara, but as far as I'm aware that's been fairly limited contact between the rulers. Not exactly making trade agreements or talking about sharing military support.

Meh.

Finton.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Vellos on July 25, 2011, 12:38:48 AM
Yeah, Celtiberia is definitely a region to love. Its partially why I suspected and still suspect that Nark will be the first of the two taken. Celtiberia's population is shooting up while being the only thing limiting improvement in production. It is or will be pumping out food, especially after winter has ended. Barca won't be short food to export, so the other reasons to take Nark will spring up. Even cosmetic reasons :)

Celtiberia's food production is a reason to take Kydonia first, not Nark. Taking Kydonia provides a buffer zone against monsters for Celtiberia. Taking Nark creates one for Thysan. And I imagine Nark is harder to hold due to bordering Eregon and Twainwood.

I think Aurvandil's wiki claims to have some good relations with Barca and D'Hara, but as far as I'm aware that's been fairly limited contact between the rulers. Not exactly making trade agreements or talking about sharing military support.

We tried to forge some higher-level contacts. They ignored us.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Chenier on July 25, 2011, 05:04:37 AM
I wonder why they can't just agree to a division of territories. I mean, Madina has that entire island that is completely self-sufficient. They have what I think to be the best geographical location for a stable realm that can afford to go on overseas quests against monsters to rid themselves of potential TMP. They have highly defensible entry points in Madina and Tower Fatmilak as well.

Pride, maybe. Meh. Leave it to the silly humans lol.

I could perfectly understand Madina for not wanting this, though. If they agree to peace, and then reclaim the rest of their island, I imagine we can agree that Fatmilak would make a [email protected]#$ty capital? But if they make Madina their capital, then it would become incredibly easier for Aurvandil to takeover tower Fatmilak, and it would then be extremely difficult to dislodge them as it is adjacent to their capital. This would grant Aurvandil the ability to attack Madina with impunity if they chose to do so. And since I don't see a friendship emerging, it'd be very likely that, given the opportunity, they'd jump on it.

We tried to forge some higher-level contacts. They ignored us.

Yea, even when I visited and tried to talk to their nobles. I *really* wanted to bring them into our sphere of influence, but their total lack of diplomatic skill and will to form any form of relations with us made me completely give up on them.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: vanKaya on July 25, 2011, 10:13:42 AM
Ok hear me out:

Yes Madina sucks (from an IC perspective of course) BUT they are a republic, and thats something right?

What if we put all our enmity behind us helped them invade Aurvandil on the condition that they repopulate Candiels peninsula. Totally benefits all sides. They crush rebels, we gain ally in area, diplomatically clumsy Aurvandil is destroyed

Hmmm?? ;D ;D
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Chenier on July 25, 2011, 12:58:16 PM
Ok hear me out:

Yes Madina sucks (from an IC perspective of course) BUT they are a republic, and thats something right?

What if we put all our enmity behind us helped them invade Aurvandil on the condition that they repopulate Candiels peninsula. Totally benefits all sides. They crush rebels, we gain ally in area, diplomatically clumsy Aurvandil is destroyed

Hmmm?? ;D ;D

Estates makes it impossible, unless they chose to completely forego their old lands. Which I doubt. Unless all of Aurvandil's nobles fold back into Madina, which I doubt even more.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Indirik on July 25, 2011, 02:31:59 PM
BUT they are a republic, and thats something right?
That only makes it worse.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: JPierreD on July 25, 2011, 06:43:40 PM
That only makes it worse.

Begone, you theocrat!
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Geronus on July 25, 2011, 07:24:21 PM
Begone, you theocrat!

We have a secret handshake... Bet you don't.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: vanKaya on July 25, 2011, 07:48:42 PM
Well if we did you wouldn't know. Because it's secret.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Geronus on July 25, 2011, 07:51:38 PM
Well if we did you wouldn't know. Because it's secret.

... Touche.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: dustole on July 25, 2011, 08:28:00 PM
Geronus,  we aren't supposed to talk about the secret handshake!  That's why it is secret!  Next you will start telling them about our super secret plans to take over all of Dwilight...
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: vanKaya on July 25, 2011, 08:33:10 PM
That's the problem with theocracies, they're going around telling everyone their secrets. too much faith if you ask me
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Indirik on July 25, 2011, 09:03:42 PM
That's the problem with theocracies ... too much faith if you ask me

Nice one. :D
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Vellos on July 26, 2011, 02:33:44 AM
Nice one. :D

You see why we keep him around in Terran? He's one of them smart people.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Indirik on July 26, 2011, 02:42:45 AM
Come to Astrum. I'll double your tax share.  ;D
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: vanKaya on July 26, 2011, 02:55:43 AM
Lol it's like unlimited money in Terran. All you have to do is make a peep about needing a few more coins and Hireshmont makes it rain. I dunno what's going on in Chesney, probably illegal horse racing or something, but that city makes bank. And then proceeds to distribute the wealth. Ah Terran, can't say enough good things

At one point I remember one of hireshmonts knights was handing out loans to whoever asked cause they had more money then they knew what to do with.

Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Zakilevo on July 26, 2011, 04:17:38 AM
Lol it's like unlimited money in Terran. All you have to do is make a peep about needing a few more coins and Hireshmont makes it rain. I dunno what's going on in Chesney, probably illegal horse racing or something, but that city makes bank. And then proceeds to distribute the wealth. Ah Terran, can't say enough good things

At one point I remember one of hireshmonts knights was handing out loans to whoever asked cause they had more money then they knew what to do with.

wow.. now I want to go to Terran all of a sudden. I get 56 gold for being a duke in Astrum. I demand raise! 8)
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: egamma on July 26, 2011, 05:33:35 AM
Lol it's like unlimited money in Terran. All you have to do is make a peep about needing a few more coins and Hireshmont makes it rain. I dunno what's going on in Chesney, probably illegal horse racing or something, but that city makes bank. And then proceeds to distribute the wealth. Ah Terran, can't say enough good things

At one point I remember one of hireshmonts knights was handing out loans to whoever asked cause they had more money then they knew what to do with.

It's the taxation on guildhouses.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Chenier on July 26, 2011, 05:44:18 AM
It's the taxation on guildhouses.

Except that gold doesn't appear out of thin air. Guild taxes are only abusable as long as you've got people foolishly dumping a lot of their personal wealth in them.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Perth on July 26, 2011, 06:23:07 AM
Hireshmont makes it rain.

I laughed so hard at this.


But seriously, yeah, every tax day loads of money ends up in Kale's account from Hireshmont.... money's he hasn't ever really even asked for. He calls them "subsidies" to help Lords and Knights on our border regions.

Title: Re: Barca
Post by: JPierreD on July 26, 2011, 09:58:31 AM
Sounds like a great realm. We get much more rationed in Luria Nova.
Pian en Luries is going to distribute 25% of the revenue to all the realm, I hear. I guess they'll gain a fair amount of nobles from the southern realm...  8)
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Indirik on July 26, 2011, 12:29:29 PM
I get 56 gold for being a duke in Astrum.
Yes, but you are the duke!

Quote
I demand raise! 8)
So raise taxes and give yourself one.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: vanKaya on July 26, 2011, 01:30:10 PM
Sounds like a great realm. We get much more rationed in Luria Nova.
Pian en Luries is going to distribute 25% of the revenue to all the realm, I hear. I guess they'll gain a fair amount of nobles from the southern realm...  8)

I think the amount of realm taxes everyone receives in Terran is quite minimal. It's more that the Lord's understand that giving their liege a sizable income means that their knights are able to field capable units and that in turn benefits everyone. I may be wrong but I believe a lot of Terran's region lords offer around 40 % oaths, my own knight receives 50% in addition to a fifty gold subsidy from Hireshmont every week. Is it a waste to give so much to a knight? Hell no! He rarely if ever asks for money and he's always recruiting large units and plunging them headfirst into battle in the name of the Republic.

Also our dukes are far from greedy. Hireshmont, from what I assume, keeps very little pocket money every tax day, reinvesting it into the realm and O'Domus, the duke of chateau Saffalore, uses his income to field massive 1000 CS sf units that benefit everyone enourmously on the battlefield. Labell in Shokalom has also been very generous with his limited income since the survival of his city is dependent on the safety of our northern frontier.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Shenron on July 26, 2011, 01:44:41 PM
I think the amount of realm taxes everyone receives in Terran is quite minimal. It's more that the Lord's understand that giving their liege a sizable income means that their knights are able to field capable units and that in turn benefits everyone. I may be wrong but I believe a lot of Terran's region lords offer around 40 % oaths, my own knight receives 50% in addition to a fifty gold subsidy from Hireshmont every week. Is it a waste to give so much to a knight? Hell no! He rarely if ever asks for money and he's always recruiting large units and plunging them headfirst into battle in the name of the Republic.

Also our dukes are far from greedy. Hireshmont, from what I assume, keeps very little pocket money every tax day, reinvesting it into the realm and O'Domus, the duke of chateau Saffalore, uses his income to field massive 1000 CS sf units that benefit everyone enourmously on the battlefield. Labell in Shokalom has also been very generous with his limited income since the survival of his city is dependent on the safety of our northern frontier.

Silly communist realm  :P
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Gustav Kuriga on July 26, 2011, 03:35:59 PM
In Astrum, you raise gold. In Soviet Terran, gold raises you!
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: De-Legro on July 27, 2011, 12:11:49 AM
in PeL I give my knights 100 gold per tax. Oh and I need more knights :)
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Huntsmaster on July 27, 2011, 12:26:50 AM
in PeL I give my knights 100 gold per tax. Oh and I need more knights :)

Tell us more.  :P
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: vanKaya on July 27, 2011, 01:25:51 AM
Lol high incomes..

What an insensitive subject for the thread on Barca

Back on topic somewhat, is Barca pronounced with a k or an s sound?
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: JPierreD on July 27, 2011, 02:16:11 AM
I always thought about it as Barka. It would sound too much like Barcelona otherwise :P
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Indirik on July 27, 2011, 02:34:36 AM
I always think of it as a K sound. As in "You must be barking mad to live in Barca."
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Carna on July 27, 2011, 02:54:39 AM
Lol. Yeah, I've always thought of it as Barka too.

And I wouldn't say Barca is too badly off gold-wise. Not that they're flowing in it, but, well, look at Caerwyn for gold income per noble :)
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Vellos on July 27, 2011, 03:27:35 AM
In Astrum, you raise gold. In Soviet Terran, gold raises you!

What can I say; we're rich. I regularly haul hundreds of gold out to friends in D'Hara and Barca just to give it away for whatever they want, no strings attached. And that's after I hand out a few hundred gold to needy knights and lords.

Of course, they aren't actually all that needy. Some of the "needy" people I sponsor receive almost 100 gold from their oaths to begin with.

@Fyodor- Vandle is one of the most reliable people in Terran. Wish he'd talk a bit more, but he's a solid knight. One of the reasons I love sending gold to him.

@Everyone whining about gold- Terran has lots of it. I routinely give several hundred gold to a new noble within their first month or so. Retention, retention, retention...
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Gustav Kuriga on July 27, 2011, 03:57:40 PM
What can I say; we're rich. I regularly haul hundreds of gold out to friends in D'Hara and Barca just to give it away for whatever they want, no strings attached. And that's after I hand out a few hundred gold to needy knights and lords.

Of course, they aren't actually all that needy. Some of the "needy" people I sponsor receive almost 100 gold from their oaths to begin with.

@Fyodor- Vandle is one of the most reliable people in Terran. Wish he'd talk a bit more, but he's a solid knight. One of the reasons I love sending gold to him.

@Everyone whining about gold- Terran has lots of it. I routinely give several hundred gold to a new noble within their first month or so. Retention, retention, retention...

You need to speak to Chenier about player retention.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: egamma on July 27, 2011, 06:46:39 PM
You need to speak to Chenier about player retention.

I think our problem is attracting them in the first place! My knights each get 30% of a townsland, and I gave them an additional 200 gold apiece to go on my little jaunt to the Zuma.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Gustav Kuriga on July 27, 2011, 07:15:11 PM
I don't mean ask for advice from him, I mean to give him advice.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: [email protected] on July 27, 2011, 10:21:19 PM
What, Chenier doesn't hand out gold...oh..that's right. He's one of the guys who thinks what they don't know can't hurt them.

True, not all new players are stupid and they will catch on that they're getting [email protected]#$ty deals. But I really wonder just how sustainable Terran's system might be.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Chenier on July 28, 2011, 01:32:33 AM
I don't mean ask for advice from him, I mean to give him advice.

I do a fair enough job at retention, thank you.

As egamma said, we just don't get many people that join up to begin with.

Lyman puts a lot of effort into making players remain, and has good results for it. I, however, neither have the time or the will to dump endless efforts on BM anymore, and so I always say hello to new people, offer them an oath and advice, and then always reply to them when they write to me directly or if they say something publicly. That being said, I don't spend any further efforts on people who never speak. Some of them can be converted into active and voiceful people, but most can't. While retention is a honorable goal, that's where I draw the line as to how much effort is worth the gain that is sought. If people don't respond to the plenty of opportunities for them to that I present to them, then it's their own damn fault. I ain't playing BabbysittingMaster here.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Vellos on July 28, 2011, 03:44:25 AM
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Gustav Kuriga on July 28, 2011, 06:43:01 AM
And besides, when Caerwyn collapses, another realm will be taking its place. That also frees up Itau for colonization or expansion from Asylon.

Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Perth on July 28, 2011, 06:56:19 AM
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Chenier on July 28, 2011, 01:19:16 PM
>_>

Says the guy with close to 1,000 forum posts (the third most) and endless topics and posts analyzing the various nitty-gritty aspects of game's economy system, why it should be changed, and how it should be changed.

lol.

Yes, now imagine how bad it used to be.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Vellos on July 29, 2011, 01:40:59 AM
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Bael on August 06, 2011, 07:01:55 PM
Want to start a little sub-topic here:

The forest/wood in the Maroccidens is known as the Marwood. What type of forest/wood/jungle do you all envisage it to be? I want to update the region description of Rettlewood, and having two conflicting ideas from two different people at the moment.

The one idea, and the one that has influenced me all along, is that it is a thick, dark wood. The other, more recent, is that it is more of a jungle type area. Perhaps according to the weather, it may be somewhere inbetween:

Quote
Type:  Woodland
Location:   midland
Weather area:  South Forest
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Perth on August 06, 2011, 07:28:44 PM
Want to start a little sub-topic here:

The forest/wood in the Maroccidens is known as the Marwood. What type of forest/wood/jungle do you all envisage it to be? I want to update the region description of Rettlewood, and having two conflicting ideas from two different people at the moment.

The one idea, and the one that has influenced me all along, is that it is a thick, dark wood. The other, more recent, is that it is more of a jungle type area. Perhaps according to the weather, it may be somewhere inbetween:

Many in Terran have role-played for years now that Maroccidens keeps a warm, tropical environment with our "winters" being more like a monsoon or rainy reason. The Marwood has oft been thought of as a wet, thick, jungly type place. (IMO)
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Vellos on August 07, 2011, 12:34:49 AM
It's... very wet, for sure. Doesn't have to be Amazonian of course, but it's certainly not just a dark European forest. It's very hot, and there's no shortage of rain.

I like to think of the climate of the southeastern US, except a bit hotter and wetter, so maybe almost Caribbean: many swamps, bogs, etc; the coolest parts might have occasional snowfall in the deepest parts of winter, but it'd be very rare, certainly dense growth in the wooded areas.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Zakilevo on August 07, 2011, 12:42:41 AM
It's... very wet, for sure. Doesn't have to be Amazonian of course, but it's certainly not just a dark European forest. It's very hot, and there's no shortage of rain.

I like to think of the climate of the southeastern US, except a bit hotter and wetter, so maybe almost Caribbean: many swamps, bogs, etc; the coolest parts might have occasional snowfall in the deepest parts of winter, but it'd be very rare, certainly dense growth in the wooded areas.

I doubt you will ever see snow if the region is like Caribbean..
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Vellos on August 07, 2011, 01:33:18 AM
It's a big area; the northern parts would be like central Georgia maybe, the southern parts maybe like parts of the Caribbean.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Bael on August 12, 2011, 07:27:58 PM
Thanks all. That's what I was looking for :)
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Bael on August 14, 2011, 12:19:04 PM
Who knew that Mixed Infantry could be useful once their update was in place? :D

Elemental Wrath
Captain Volkrad (+5)
Type:    Mixed Infantry
Range:    3 lines
Strength:    50 men
Training:    70 %
Weapons/Armour:    85% / 55%
Damage:   25 %
Morale:   100 %
Cohesion:   78 %
Combat Strength:   695


Barca is finally getting some Combat strength - almost up to 2.5k now, or more  ;)
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Vellos on August 14, 2011, 03:35:11 PM
I'm only of the few in BM who has actually always liked mixed infantry. I always felt like they should be effective monster/undead killers if deployed correctly.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Phellan on August 14, 2011, 06:24:41 PM
I'm only of the few in BM who has actually always liked mixed infantry. I always felt like they should be effective monster/undead killers if deployed correctly.

Agreed, MI are the best for dealing with monsters especially.    I like 'em for militia, though really nice MI would be deadly in a good fight.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Bael on August 14, 2011, 08:44:09 PM
Agreed, MI are the best for dealing with monsters especially.    I like 'em for militia, though really nice MI would be deadly in a good fight.

Yep, they are pretty effective. Below is a record of battles against monsters, taken from the past eight days and recording the first round of volleys at 3 lines, and the second at 2 lines.

There is almost no wind today, archers will be deadly.
Elemental Wrath (2) fire on Monsters (1), scoring 334 hits.
Elemental Wrath (2) fire on Monsters (1), scoring 454 hits.

A calm wind blows, to the joy of the archers.
Elemental Wrath (2) fire on Monsters (1), scoring 350 hits.

A calm wind blows, to the joy of the archers.
Elemental Wrath (3) fire on Monsters (1), scoring 296 hits.
Elemental Wrath (3) fire on Monsters (1), scoring 541 hits.

Strong winds and gusts are making ranged combat a game of luck.
Elemental Wrath (2) fire on Monsters (1), scoring 249 hits.
Elemental Wrath (2) fire on Monsters (1), scoring 366 hits.



Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Galvez on August 15, 2011, 09:46:13 AM
I like 'em for militia, though really nice MI would be deadly in a good fight.

I dare to say we have the best MI of Dwilight!
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Shenron on August 15, 2011, 11:26:53 AM
I dare to say we have the best MI of Dwilight!

It's really cool to see how far you guys have come!  8)
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Bael on August 15, 2011, 12:03:06 PM
I'm only of the few in BM who has actually always liked mixed infantry. I always felt like they should be effective monster/undead killers if deployed correctly.

An addition: I remember back in Caerwyn, someone hired some Mixed infantry (75/65 they were, I think), and those performed quite admirably. Apparently they had been buffed recently before that. The major problem with them has always been the fact that they would suicide charge at the most inconvenient times. Tends to be irritating.

Thankfully that has been fixed recently, as you know ;)

It's really cool to see how far you guys have come!  8)

Heh, the realm just hit the six month mark! It's been fairly slow, but as you can see, things are moving along. And I haven't even been there for the whole time! I've just been there for the better bits (imo). ;D

Now we could just use an extra noble or three...
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Rogi on August 19, 2011, 05:13:10 AM
Our MI units in Barca are really helping us a lot against monster units, and more if we consider the three range they have. Normaly with the MI and the Archers with range 4 the monsters don't arrive to our lines, if fight well.

Slowly Barca is expanding savely, don't risking his integrity, as by now we have now hurry for it.  I completely agree with the fact that we would need some more nobles to increase our expansion speed, and secure the newest regions with nobles and estates that increase the growth of the regions. We don't have to forget that all surrounding regions to Barca haven't  more than 100 popoulation, and taking a new region means to make it grow without having good economic incomes, having to defend another region. Therefore, and seeing the military growth of the realm, I think Barca has to grow so far it is able to maintain itself.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: vanKaya on August 19, 2011, 07:41:24 AM
Arguably the hardest part is over. Now every region you gain helps seal off another region, thus helping it grow.

Ie. Kydonia seals off Celtiberia and Nark will seal of Rettlewood.

Great work by the way. I think that an inspired and persevering military has been the key to your success
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Vellos on August 19, 2011, 03:07:09 PM
Absolutely; when we colonized Barca, I was skeptical about its chances. I kind of expected Barca to fail, and hoped the nobles would drift back to Terran to boost our estates.

But you succeeded! Now you just need Nark, and you'll have some pretty solid, secure borders. But I suppose you may need more nobles to secure Nark.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Bael on August 19, 2011, 03:47:27 PM
Absolutely; when we colonized Barca, I was skeptical about its chances. I kind of expected Barca to fail, and hoped the nobles would drift back to Terran to boost our estates.

But you succeeded! Now you just need Nark, and you'll have some pretty solid, secure borders. But I suppose you may need more nobles to secure Nark.

Well, the collapse of Caerwyn will have some pretty interesting ramifications for the Maroccidens and surrounding areas, I am sure.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Vellos on August 19, 2011, 05:29:12 PM
Indeed.

Depending on how Aurvandil holds out, we'll either see a new "Madina bloc" in the deep south, or we'll just see a more robust Madina able to hold more of its lands. Either one would be interesting.

Just stay away from Twainville. Stay very, very far away.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Nosferatus on August 19, 2011, 07:09:54 PM
Just stay away from Twainville. Stay very, very far away.

 ;)
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Phellan on August 19, 2011, 07:43:37 PM

Just stay away from Twainville. Stay very, very far away.

Now, that would be boring wouldn't it? :(
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Galvez on August 24, 2011, 07:26:05 PM
While we do not need a war to keep us occupied, the recent events did spice things up. I like it. ;D
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: cjnodell on August 25, 2011, 05:12:39 AM
I agree. Barca is becoming more and more engaging every day. Disputes over claims just add to the fun. Conflict even more so. I look forward to seeing where this all may lead!
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Lopeyschools on August 25, 2011, 05:51:56 AM
Barca will probably have a new neighbour relatively soon. Barca and whatever the new Caerwynian colony calls itself have not started off on the right foot.

I'm not writing Aurvandiel off mind you, but I think their position is a little untenable and I Madina has better resources.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Vellos on August 25, 2011, 06:05:26 AM
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Lopeyschools on August 25, 2011, 06:45:04 AM
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: DoctorHarte on August 25, 2011, 07:09:00 AM
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Geronus on August 25, 2011, 03:50:45 PM
I suspect it won't be long until Astrum's new colony starts up something.

Who, us?  ;D
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Beldragos on August 25, 2011, 08:14:00 PM
For the record, Helm contacted Barca to ask about Twainsville and was told it is claimed.  Since then nothing has been said about even traveling there, it was thrown off the list of possibilities and we do not have an interest in it as far as I know.  We are settling in Madina and then after helping them smash the rebellion we have been promised their claims as a place to rebuild Caerwyn.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Galvez on August 25, 2011, 11:56:09 PM
Barca will probably have a new neighbour relatively soon. Barca and whatever the new Caerwynian colony calls itself have not started off on the right foot.

We didn't started off on the right foot with Aurvandil either. They too thought they could 'negotiate' about our claims, and desired Evanburg. But after a while, they have proven to be thrustworthy neigbours.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Phellan on August 26, 2011, 01:05:13 AM
We didn't started off on the right foot with Aurvandil either. They too thought they could 'negotiate' about our claims, and desired Evanburg. But after a while, they have proven to be thrustworthy neigbours.

And by that you willing to do whatever your little Federation demands? :D

Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Vellos on August 26, 2011, 05:09:09 AM
Heh.

Actually, other parts of the federation are more pro-Madina than Barca probably is. D'Hara's interests can conceivably line up with Madina. But, as a competitor for the Candiels Peninsula and a food supplying realm, Barca and Madina have natural animosity.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Galvez on August 26, 2011, 11:54:26 AM
Vellos, that is not entirely true. Julius was on good terms with Madina during the reign of Lady Florence.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Geronus on August 26, 2011, 07:25:20 PM
Well, Aurvandil and Madina are both growing greatly thanks to the dissolution of Caerwyn. The Saxons appear to be moving en masse to Aurvandil while another faction in Caerwyn heads for Madina. Aurvandil now has the knights to expand significantly, including northward should they so desire. But the Veinsormoot would crush them you say? Has the threat of destruction *ever* stopped the Saxons from doing stupid things before?  ;D

Or, maybe they'll just try harder to kill Madina. I'm not sure about that though, seeing as Madina is also growing and can as a result easily hold Tower Fatmilak against cross channel assaults... If they don't screw up.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Phellan on August 26, 2011, 08:45:07 PM
I'd be impressed if Aurvandil can mass enough to take the tower - they'll need 15K or so since we're going to be building up our forces in the Tower predominantly with a small faction out expanding for our regions and getting new estates for all these knights we just picked up.

They have the advantage in that they have siege engines - we don't, and given Candiels level 4 walls it means we have to wait until we can get them.   

Though, if they want to attack the Tower, let them :D  I like these big battle reports. . .
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Zakilevo on August 26, 2011, 10:11:54 PM
Saxons will probably take over Aurvandil. Thank god SA doesn't have to deal with those people anymore.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Lopeyschools on August 26, 2011, 10:25:53 PM
Well, Aurvandil and Madina are both growing greatly thanks to the dissolution of Caerwyn. The Saxons appear to be moving en masse to Aurvandil while another faction in Caerwyn heads for Madina. Aurvandil now has the knights to expand significantly, including northward should they so desire. But the Veinsormoot would crush them you say? Has the threat of destruction *ever* stopped the Saxons from doing stupid things before?  ;D

Or, maybe they'll just try harder to kill Madina. I'm not sure about that though, seeing as Madina is also growing and can as a result easily hold Tower Fatmilak against cross channel assaults... If they don't screw up.

A lot of the Saxons have joined nearby realms to Aurvandiel (Barca, Terran), it could be regular post realm collapse dissolution or a clever plan to create sympathy for Aurvandiel in those realms.

As far as I know only one or two nobles from Caerwyn have joined Aurvandiel.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Vellos on August 27, 2011, 03:00:50 AM
A lot of the Saxons have joined nearby realms to Aurvandiel (Barca, Terran), it could be regular post realm collapse dissolution or a clever plan to create sympathy for Aurvandiel in those realms.

.... maybe Barca. But not Terran. Terran has not gotten any Caerwynian refugees. We had Hyperion briefly, but he's leaving now.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Lopeyschools on August 27, 2011, 03:15:46 AM
.... maybe Barca. But not Terran. Terran has not gotten any Caerwynian refugees. We had Hyperion briefly, but he's leaving now.

Hmmm, maybe it was D'Hara then? A couple paused/deleted their characters from Caerwyn and they might have started new ones in Aurvandiel, which could explain Aurvandiel's recent growth. I shall investigate!
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Carna on August 27, 2011, 03:18:44 AM
One joined Barca, and before that stopped in D'Hara. That's the sum of it though so far, so I wouldn't expect it to have much sway one way or the other.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: JPierreD on August 27, 2011, 11:57:57 AM
That theory sounds rather too much like a conspiracy. Things do not work like that.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Geronus on August 27, 2011, 05:05:55 PM
That theory sounds rather too much like a conspiracy. Things do not work like that.

Um, yes they do. That's exactly how this group works. Who do you think started all the rumors about Astrum attacking Caerwyn? How do you think it is that 3-4 seemingly unrelated characters drifted into Caerwyn from different SA realms, all telling the same false story about our plans to attack them? I agree that things don't work like that most of the time because most groups of characters simply aren't that well coordinated, but this particular group are outliers. They're extremely tight-knit and well organized, more so than any other group I have ever encountered in this game. That's not a complement either, not when you take into account their apparent lack of qualms about exploiting loopholes in the game.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Galvez on August 27, 2011, 05:42:15 PM
One joined Barca, and before that stopped in D'Hara. That's the sum of it though so far, so I wouldn't expect it to have much sway one way or the other.
I have been contacted by two nobles who would like to join Barca. One just arrived, and I guess the other is still on his way. I do not know if they used to be Saxons.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: dustole on August 27, 2011, 05:54:58 PM
Um, yes they do. That's exactly how this group works. Who do you think started all the rumors about Astrum attacking Caerwyn? How do you think it is that 3-4 seemingly unrelated characters drifted into Caerwyn from different SA realms, all telling the same false story about our plans to attack them? I agree that things don't work like that most of the time because most groups of characters simply aren't that well coordinated, but this particular group are outliers. They're extremely tight-knit and well organized, more so than any other group I have ever encountered in this game. That's not a complement either, not when you take into account their apparent lack of qualms about exploiting loopholes in the game.


I know I am responsible for some of those rumors.  I spoon fed Baal some lies and had other nobles from other realms do the same.  I like to think that I am 51% responsible for the Caerwyn vs SA war.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: vonGenf on August 27, 2011, 06:03:21 PM

I know I am responsible for some of those rumors.  I spoon fed Baal some lies and had other nobles from other realms do the same.  I like to think that I am 51% responsible for the Caerwyn vs SA war.

If you add up all the percentages of how much people think are responsible for that war, you're likely to reach at a minimum 600% overall.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: dustole on August 27, 2011, 06:06:19 PM
If you add up all the percentages of how much people think are responsible for that war, you're likely to reach at a minimum 600% overall.


You are probably right.  All in all it was a lot of fun for a lot of people and that is what really matters in the end.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Vellos on August 27, 2011, 07:33:03 PM
With all this frustration against "the Saxons," you'd think someone would have made a list of all their UserIDs, compiled evidence, and at least made some kind of evidentiary case out of it. I see, time and time again, accusations against "the Saxons" and "these same players," but, strangely, never any UserIDs, often contradictory statements concerning them, a great readiness to create ex post facto explanations, and the already-noted conspiracy-theory habits.

If people truly have a complaint against them that they are somehow violating the Social Contract, compile your evidence, and bring it to the Magistrates. But this constant non-evidentiary bullcrap is almost as annoying as how every Dwilight discussion returns to SA.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Nosferatus on August 27, 2011, 07:38:00 PM
With all this frustration against "the Saxons," you'd think someone would have made a list of all their UserIDs, compiled evidence, and at least made some kind of evidentiary case out of it. I see, time and time again, accusations against "the Saxons" and "these same players," but, strangely, never any UserIDs, often contradictory statements concerning them, a great readiness to create ex post facto explanations, and the already-noted conspiracy-theory habits.

If people truly have a complaint against them that they are somehow violating the Social Contract, compile your evidence, and bring it to the Magistrates. But this constant non-evidentiary bullcrap is almost as annoying as how every Dwilight discussion returns to SA.

That is because such specifics are for the Titans who never did or could do anything about it.
I won't ever waste my time investigating them because i know nothing ever will or can be done.
I mean how can you give watertight proof of them communicating outside the game?
Its very hard to do something about things like this, but i agree positive discussion would be more useful.
For example how can we do something about it in the future?
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: dustole on August 27, 2011, 07:38:31 PM
With all this frustration against "the Saxons," you'd think someone would have made a list of all their UserIDs, compiled evidence, and at least made some kind of evidentiary case out of it. I see, time and time again, accusations against "the Saxons" and "these same players," but, strangely, never any UserIDs, often contradictory statements concerning them, a great readiness to create ex post facto explanations, and the already-noted conspiracy-theory habits.

If people truly have a complaint against them that they are somehow violating the Social Contract, compile your evidence, and bring it to the Magistrates. But this constant non-evidentiary bullcrap is almost as annoying as how every Dwilight discussion returns to SA.

My understanding of the situation is that evidence was gathered and it was found that they weren't breaking any rules or that they couldn't figure out exactly who was breaking the rules.  Also the reason that topics get hijacked by SA all the time is that 1 in 4 nobles on Dwilight belong to that religion.  We are simply too awesome!!!
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Perth on August 27, 2011, 07:41:42 PM
We are simply too awesome!!!

Nah dude, just mainstream.

*dons hipster Terran sunglasses*  8)
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: vonGenf on August 27, 2011, 07:54:47 PM
1 in 4 nobles on Dwilight belong to that religion.

Is that all?

Back to work, then!
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Perth on August 27, 2011, 08:44:36 PM
1 in 4 nobles on Dwilight belong to that religion.

Would be interesting to get a break down of religion percentages for nobles on the continent, actually.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Geronus on August 27, 2011, 09:59:43 PM
With all this frustration against "the Saxons," you'd think someone would have made a list of all their UserIDs, compiled evidence, and at least made some kind of evidentiary case out of it. I see, time and time again, accusations against "the Saxons" and "these same players," but, strangely, never any UserIDs, often contradictory statements concerning them, a great readiness to create ex post facto explanations, and the already-noted conspiracy-theory habits.

If people truly have a complaint against them that they are somehow violating the Social Contract, compile your evidence, and bring it to the Magistrates. But this constant non-evidentiary bullcrap is almost as annoying as how every Dwilight discussion returns to SA.

I try not to toss around accusations about multi-cheating and such not. As far as I know that complaint has been made, investigated, and dismissed for lack of evidence, so I believe that they are not multi-cheaters. I try to stick to things that are known, such as what I said. Players in Caerwyn have said IC and OOC that several nobles joined their realm from various SA realms over a course of time, all bearing the same patently false story. The fact that it came from seemingly different and unrelated sources made it more credible, but trust me when I say that it was completely made up - that takes coordination, and that kind of coordination between characters from young or even new families who started their careers in different realms and had little reason (or even ability) to communicate IC is just unusual no matter how you look at it. Evidence of wrongdoing? No. Unusual enough to merit comment? Yes. It skirts a line in my opinion, but there is no evidence of actual wrongdoing.

That's the crux of it. They don't actually do anything wrong per se, but everything they do leaves a bad taste in your mouth when you stop to consider how it is that they might have accomplished it. That's why nothing gets done about it. The actual, proven exploitation gets stopped (a la the family wealth loophole), but beyond that what can be done? How do you prove that a group of characters are systematically violating the spirit of the game? And how do you even define the spirit of the game? I have a sense of what it means to play fair and I feel that what they do crosses that line, but again I cannot prove anything.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Phellan on August 27, 2011, 10:15:00 PM
I try not to toss around accusations about multi-cheating and such not. As far as I know that complaint has been made, investigated, and dismissed for lack of evidence, so I believe that they are not multi-cheaters. I try to stick to things that are known, such as what I said. Players in Caerwyn have said IC and OOC that several nobles joined their realm from various SA realms over a course of time, all bearing the same patently false story. The fact that it came from seemingly different and unrelated sources made it more credible, but trust me when I say that it was completely made up - that takes coordination, and that kind of coordination between characters from young or even new families who started their careers in different realms and had little reason (or even ability) to communicate IC is just unusual no matter how you look at it. Evidence of wrongdoing? No. Unusual enough to merit comment? Yes. It skirts a line in my opinion, but there is no evidence of actual wrongdoing.

That's the crux of it. They don't actually do anything wrong per se, but everything they do leaves a bad taste in your mouth when you stop to consider how it is that they might have accomplished it. That's why nothing gets done about it. The actual, proven exploitation gets stopped (a la the family wealth loophole), but beyond that what can be done? How do you prove that a group of characters are systematically violating the spirit of the game? And how do you even define the spirit of the game? I have a sense of what it means to play fair and I feel that what they do crosses that line, but again I cannot prove anything.

Sounds like they'll get along great with the Aurvandil group that led the Libero Rebellion.  LOL.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Bedwyr on August 28, 2011, 12:09:52 AM
With all this frustration against "the Saxons," you'd think someone would have made a list of all their UserIDs, compiled evidence, and at least made some kind of evidentiary case out of it. I see, time and time again, accusations against "the Saxons" and "these same players," but, strangely, never any UserIDs, often contradictory statements concerning them, a great readiness to create ex post facto explanations, and the already-noted conspiracy-theory habits.

If people truly have a complaint against them that they are somehow violating the Social Contract, compile your evidence, and bring it to the Magistrates. But this constant non-evidentiary bullcrap is almost as annoying as how every Dwilight discussion returns to SA.

The Titans and Tom specifically looked at the Saxon group.  There was definitively something fishy, but extremely tangled.  I am not aware of what all actions were taken, but discussions among the devs indicated that there was some multi-ing going on, and there was a concerted effort to get around game mechanics that they used to create several thousand gold out of thin air.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Vellos on August 28, 2011, 12:51:30 AM
That's the crux of it. They don't actually do anything wrong per se, but everything they do leaves a bad taste in your mouth when you stop to consider how it is that they might have accomplished it. That's why nothing gets done about it. The actual, proven exploitation gets stopped (a la the family wealth loophole), but beyond that what can be done? How do you prove that a group of characters are systematically violating the spirit of the game? And how do you even define the spirit of the game? I have a sense of what it means to play fair and I feel that what they do crosses that line, but again I cannot prove anything.

Here's an idea.

Stop being systematically hostile and conspiratorial against them, and maybe we can demonstrate the spirit we want them to exhibit. What? Leading by example? Who does THAT these days?
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Lopeyschools on August 28, 2011, 03:57:19 AM
Here's an idea.

Stop being systematically hostile and conspiratorial against them, and maybe we can demonstrate the spirit we want them to exhibit. What? Leading by example? Who does THAT these days?

I'm not hostile towards them, but the family gold exploit wasn't cool.

The idea that people will just suddenly stop cheating because other people are playing fair is a little naive. People cheat exactly because they don't want to do the hard work everyone else is doing. 
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Geronus on August 28, 2011, 05:48:48 AM
Here's an idea.

Stop being systematically hostile and conspiratorial against them, and maybe we can demonstrate the spirit we want them to exhibit. What? Leading by example? Who does THAT these days?

Must be nice up there on that high horse. Understandable though, seeing as you've never actually had to deal with them in game.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Carna on August 28, 2011, 02:04:27 PM
Someone make a new topic about the Saxons please. I think its went a page or two of being utterly off-topic so clearly people want to talk about it, but here isn't the place. I don't expect many, if any, nobles in Barca even know there's such a group and any relevance to Barca is, well, about as slim as SA is to Barca atm.

But while it is being discussed here... If you're not punished after being accused of cheating, is that because they simply couldn't pin it on you? I've no experience of these Saxons myself, so maybe its blatantly obvious, but if they were breaking the social contract then would they not be caught or stopped? Proof is a great thing. For courts. Tom and the Titans don't exactly need rock hard evidence. If they know, but can't untangle it due to third party communication or whatever, that doesn't mean they can't ban or warn the players in question anyway.

They haven't been banned. I'd personally like to think that has more to do with not being guilty than lax enforcement of fair play. If its not, then is what they've reportedly done considered fair play by the admins? Anything stopping anyone and everyone else from doing the exact same thing?

Meh.

Finn.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: dustole on August 28, 2011, 03:22:45 PM
So, in an effort to get back to the topic /and/ include SA at the same time:

Why are the rumors about Barca that Allison hears make it sound like a completely anti SA realm?  Is there truth to this or merely propaganda? 
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Gustav Kuriga on August 28, 2011, 04:33:25 PM
The Titans and Tom specifically looked at the Saxon group.  There was definitively something fishy, but extremely tangled.  I am not aware of what all actions were taken, but discussions among the devs indicated that there was some multi-ing going on, and there was a concerted effort to get around game mechanics that they used to create several thousand gold out of thin air.

I'm going to guess many of you skipped over this post, since some of you insist on saying that nothing happened and they are completely innocent.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Carna on August 28, 2011, 04:57:17 PM
Well, either you're innocent or you're guilty. I can't see how someone can be a little innocent, or partially guilty. Maybe I'm wrong.

Anti-SA? Nah. More like Not SA, at least for the time being. I'd say there's more dislike for Aurvandil, Madina and/or PeL/LN than SA in terms of general feelings. Then again, SA's had little impact on Barca one way or the other, so while there may be dislike for the realms I mention, there's also positive views. SA doesn't rate.

Yet.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Phellan on August 28, 2011, 08:53:24 PM
Well, either you're innocent or you're guilty. I can't see how someone can be a little innocent, or partially guilty. Maybe I'm wrong.

Anti-SA? Nah. More like Not SA, at least for the time being. I'd say there's more dislike for Aurvandil, Madina and/or PeL/LN than SA in terms of general feelings. Then again, SA's had little impact on Barca one way or the other, so while there may be dislike for the realms I mention, there's also positive views. SA doesn't rate.

Yet.

It cracks me up that every member of the "free league of nations" . . . is either SA friendly or SA neutral.   

Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Carna on August 28, 2011, 09:34:54 PM
It cracks me up that every member of the "free league of nations" . . . is either SA friendly or SA neutral.

SA friendly, fair 'nuff. SA neutral? Well, a lack of interest in SA is about as free as you can get on Dwilight. Not very free from SA if your life, or your realm's, revolves around it, positive or negative. As I see it, its a determination not to be rolled over or coopted. Course, does the "free league of nations" even exist at this point?

Yours is the first mention of it I've seen in some time, IC or OOC.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Phellan on August 28, 2011, 10:55:43 PM
SA friendly, fair 'nuff. SA neutral? Well, a lack of interest in SA is about as free as you can get on Dwilight. Not very free from SA if your life, or your realm's, revolves around it, positive or negative. As I see it, its a determination not to be rolled over or coopted. Course, does the "free league of nations" even exist at this point?

Yours is the first mention of it I've seen in some time, IC or OOC.

I didn't think it did, I've only ever recieved one message from the group in the last several months - and I pretty much ignored it.   Truth be told I don't really know that much about it but the idea as far as Vallyn (or I am) concerned is a farce.   Not one of the Realms in the League actively resists SA, heck most of them appease it.   If they were serious about being in the League they should have sent troops to support a free Caerwyn.

The League as far as I can tell is. . . dead?  I've had a letter from someone mentioning it in the last few weeks, but other than that.  Nothing.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Telrunya on August 28, 2011, 11:01:11 PM
Madina tried to send forces in the beginning of the War, but was denied travel rights. Then they got distracted by their own problems.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Phellan on August 28, 2011, 11:30:51 PM
Indeed.  So much for the "League" supporting Caerwyn eh? :D

Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Bael on August 29, 2011, 11:14:57 AM
Whoever thought that Barca would start experiencing TMP? 'tis most odd, to be sure!
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Galvez on August 29, 2011, 12:48:23 PM
So, in an effort to get back to the topic /and/ include SA at the same time:

Why are the rumors about Barca that Allison hears make it sound like a completely anti SA realm?  Is there truth to this or merely propaganda?

Some time ago soon after the SA vs. Caerwyn war started, I took action to protect my peole against the influences of the SA by prohibiting priests from preaching within Barca, or building shrines and temples. I kindly informed Medugnatos Stormcrow about it, and I believe he passed on my letter to the rest of SA. But that has been some time ago.

Whoever thought that Barca would start experiencing TMP? 'tis most odd, to be sure!

Yes, we need some battles. And if the monsters ain't coming to us, we will come to them.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Indirik on August 29, 2011, 02:28:58 PM
Whoever thought that Barca would start experiencing TMP? 'tis most odd, to be sure!
Lucky buggers...
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Perth on August 29, 2011, 04:47:33 PM
Some time ago soon after the SA vs. Caerwyn war started, I took action to protect my peole against the influences of the SA by prohibiting priests from preaching within Barca, or building shrines and temples. I kindly informed Medugnatos Stormcrow about it, and I believe he passed on my letter to the rest of SA. But that has been some time ago.

You should be allowing it now though, right? Because of the Treaty of Maroccidens?
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Galvez on August 29, 2011, 05:32:58 PM
Quote
A) General Provisions
iv. No signing realm shall prohibit its nobles from adhering to any faith which is permitted in another signing realm.
v. A signing realm shall be free to regulate religions within its borders as it sees fit, provided it does not damage the lands or security of other signing realms.

We do not prohibit our nobles from adhering to SA. You only can't preach the word of SA or construct any temples/shrines.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Indirik on August 29, 2011, 05:57:38 PM
It is interesting that the Treaty of the Maroccidens declares that only Republics can be in the Veinsormoot, yet one of the three founding members is a Monarchy. ???
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Telrunya on August 29, 2011, 06:25:38 PM
D'Hara follows a Republican System, albeit I consider her still largely influenced by her Monarchy backgrounds. But really, there's no easy way to change the official Government type. The 'Rebellion' that took place was done entirely peaceful and through the Election system when the previous King abdicated due inactivity.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Bael on August 29, 2011, 06:43:00 PM
D'Hara follows a Republican System, albeit I consider her still largely influenced by her Monarchy backgrounds. But really, there's no easy way to change the official Government type. The 'Rebellion' that took place was done entirely peaceful and through the Election system when the previous King abdicated due inactivity.

Yes, I was quite surprised to see that D'Hara was a monarchy. I assumed that they were a republic, for some reason.  ???
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Vellos on August 29, 2011, 09:48:52 PM
It is interesting that the Treaty of the Maroccidens declares that only Republics can be in the Veinsormoot, yet one of the three founding members is a Monarchy. ???

We don't require that you be a republic.

Quote
No realm shall be admitted to this agreement which has not adopted a republican style of governance.

We require a republican style of governance.

D'Hara is not formally a republic maybe, but they have regular voting on many positions (including, crucially, the ruler), give the most significant legislative power to the lords, and generally feel like a republic to the politicians in Terran.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Indirik on August 29, 2011, 09:55:40 PM
Hmm... That's easily read as requiring a realm to actually be a republic. I do see what you mean, though.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Vellos on August 29, 2011, 11:07:17 PM
Hmm... That's easily read as requiring a realm to actually be a republic. I do see what you mean, though.

It is indeed easily read that way. We would prefer formal republics, but we do not want to prohibit realms which operate under the same guiding principles, but with a different title.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on August 30, 2011, 12:28:00 AM
Some time ago soon after the SA vs. Caerwyn war started, I took action to protect my peole against the influences of the SA by prohibiting priests from preaching within Barca, or building shrines and temples. I kindly informed Medugnatos Stormcrow about it, and I believe he passed on my letter to the rest of SA. But that has been some time ago.

Yes, we need some battles. And if the monsters ain't coming to us, we will come to them.

Why would SA priests be penalized? Caerwyn started the war. Way back to Saxon-Thulsoma the war was originally Libero versus Saxon-Thulsoma until the Saxons started torturing SA priests... Everyone west of Morek throws a fit about bad SA! bad bad SA! And then Averoth marches to defend Saxon-Thulsoma, they are attacked by the SA crusade, and then everyone west of Morek says "Bad SA BAD BAD". Can you guys not see how hypocritical your governments and realms are? How you bandy about honour and fairness and knights in glittering armour with republican values... Actually, look up the republican government system, it doesn't mean neo-conseravtive 2011 Republican party form of government, it means the republics of the ancient greeks. Do any of you understand that by your very actions you create your own enemies, the evil does not reside outside, it festers within.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Galvez on August 30, 2011, 12:39:09 AM
I understand very well what kind of Republic we are, and what kind we are not.

However, you can never take preaching rights for granted. We had the dignity to inform them in advance that they are not allowed to preach in Barca.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Fleugs on August 30, 2011, 12:40:28 AM
Everyone west of Morek throws a fit about bad SA! bad bad SA! And then Averoth marches to defend Saxon-Thulsoma, they are attacked by the SA crusade, and then everyone west of Morek says "Bad SA BAD BAD".

Only Astrum is west of Morek... I seem to be missing something here; the last time I checked they were part of the bad-bad SA.

Quote
Can you guys not see how hypocritical your governments and realms are? How you bandy about honour and fairness and knights in glittering armour with republican values... Actually, look up the republican government system, it doesn't mean neo-conseravtive 2011 Republican party form of government, it means the republics of the ancient greeks. Do any of you understand that by your very actions you create your own enemies, the evil does not reside outside, it festers within.

Ah, a classical! It does not mean republics as they were in ancient Greek cities. The Greek society is not the European medieval society; some people named the Romans came right in between and, albeit they stole a lot of the Greek, left a mark on Europe. Not to mention that whatever the Renaissance-folks said, the medieval people actually did manage to figure some stuff out for themselves. So they're equally 2011-Republican party as Greek-republican. Do you have any idea how a Greek republic, if it can even be summarized under one term, works?
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: JPierreD on August 30, 2011, 01:40:16 AM
Ah, a classical! It does not mean republics as they were in ancient Greek cities. The Greek society is not the European medieval society; some people named the Romans came right in between and, albeit they stole a lot of the Greek, left a mark on Europe. Not to mention that whatever the Renaissance-folks said, the medieval people actually did manage to figure some stuff out for themselves. So they're equally 2011-Republican party as Greek-republican. Do you have any idea how a Greek republic, if it can even be summarized under one term, works?

^ That

When I see Republic, it comes to my mind more something like Venice or Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on August 30, 2011, 02:03:59 AM
I was kind of dissing your form of Republic, maybe you didn't get my oh so witty humour. Republic' to indicate rule by many and by laws, is one term. Basically by unilaterally limiting the movement of priests and religion within the republic without public referendum you go against the spirit of Republic. Instead what you have is a dictatorship. Caerwyn became a theocratic Oligarchy, a state controlled by the ruling priest class one that went against the idea of republic, using false information and propaganda, fear to control thought within the state and only allow certain forms of ideas as long as they did not go against the Theocratic state.  Sounds kind of like what had happened in modern Iran, or Cambodia circa the Khmer rouge.

Instead in Asylon, we practice that all religions are equal as long as they are loyal to the state and do not actively try to subvert the state. Making Asylon a freer and truer form of the enlightened republic than one merely in name. We actually promote and protect tolerance.

Now, on the other hand I am not saying 'SA' is better, they are also extremely xenophobic and theocracies, but at least they do not pretend to be anything else. There is a simple fact, if you are evil and pretend, lie and misinform that you are good it still makes you evil... At least SA is truthful and does not bend to whatever whim that blows across their bow. I can trust that form of thought because even though it is insane at least one can deal with it in logical progression, unlike these wishy washy republics that are basically just oligarchies and dictatorships wrapped up in flowery language, without any real substance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_religion

Through control of religion your state is actually a 'Theocratic republic'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_republic
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: De-Legro on August 30, 2011, 04:22:21 AM
I was kind of dissing your form of Republic, maybe you didn't get my oh so witty humour. Republic' to indicate rule by many and by laws, is one term. Basically by unilaterally limiting the movement of priests and religion within the republic without public referendum you go against the spirit of Republic. Instead what you have is a dictatorship. Caerwyn became a theocratic Oligarchy, a state controlled by the ruling priest class one that went against the idea of republic, using false information and propaganda, fear to control thought within the state and only allow certain forms of ideas as long as they did not go against the Theocratic state.  Sounds kind of like what had happened in modern Iran, or Cambodia circa the Khmer rouge.

Instead in Asylon, we practice that all religions are equal as long as they are loyal to the state and do not actively try to subvert the state. Making Asylon a freer and truer form of the enlightened republic than one merely in name. We actually promote and protect tolerance.

Now, on the other hand I am not saying 'SA' is better, they are also extremely xenophobic and theocracies, but at least they do not pretend to be anything else. There is a simple fact, if you are evil and pretend, lie and misinform that you are good it still makes you evil... At least SA is truthful and does not bend to whatever whim that blows across their bow. I can trust that form of thought because even though it is insane at least one can deal with it in logical progression, unlike these wishy washy republics that are basically just oligarchies and dictatorships wrapped up in flowery language, without any real substance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_religion

Through control of religion your state is actually a 'Theocratic republic'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_republic

Historically Republics have ALWAYS limited who was eligible to engage in the political process. Only in modern times have the concept of true republics arisen. Even in Greek city states, the process was limited to those deemed worthy of full citizenship.

What they are trying to point out is that as discussed numerous times, the republic system in BM is meant to reflect true historic republics, not some idealised form from modern thinking.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on August 30, 2011, 04:52:27 AM
You said nothing to diprove that your nation is merely SA-lite. Theocratic republic . Mirror images of your nemesis. Without the conviction.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: De-Legro on August 30, 2011, 04:58:00 AM
You said nothing to diprove that your nation is merely SA-lite. Theocratic republic . Mirror images of your nemesis. Without the conviction.

I play in PeL, last I checked we mostly ignore SA and get busy destroying ourselves. It says so right there in my little signature.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on August 30, 2011, 05:05:30 AM
Lol wasnt directed at Pel or LN ... Directed at the mishmash realms that tout the evil of SA but basically have the same governments/religious structure....the pot calling the kettle black etc

They will never beat SA... It's like cheap chinese knock-off against name brand. The only way to beat SA is to stand for tolerance. A create real republics and monarchies that are not merely a cheap reflection.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Sabrier on August 30, 2011, 05:07:44 AM
In order to have a theocratic republic, we would have to have a state religion. I honestly don't even know what religion Julius is.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on August 30, 2011, 05:12:24 AM
Im just saying, i thought barca was a nation along the lines of Terran.  So whybother banning priests of a certain religion then? It would seem there is already some sort state religion secretly pulling the strings of the republic....my bad
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: De-Legro on August 30, 2011, 05:13:39 AM
Lol wasnt directed at Pel or LN ... Directed at the mishmash realms that tout the evil of SA but basically have the same governments/religious structure....the pot calling the kettle black etc

They will never beat SA... It's like cheap chinese knock-off against name brand. The only way to beat SA is to stand for tolerance. A create real republics and monarchies that are not merely a cheap reflection.

Then you should probably learn to use the quote button effectively, or not use language such as "your realm" when responding to a comment from someone from another realm.

Banning SA priest is actually a time honoured tradition, from a time when doing so made a lot of sense as certain SA members used to threaten to use any foothold of their religion in your realm as a reason to dictate policy, something they have not done in many years. There was also the fact that some people in non SA realms that wanted to usurp power would join SA build a temple in their region then lie about their "persecution" to get more and more SA support.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Sabrier on August 30, 2011, 05:18:19 AM
Barca is fairly similar to Terran, but with a rather activist Suffete wielding a large amount of power. It happens that Julius is not a particular fan of SA, largely, if I understand correctly, because he is concerned about it gaining political power, not because he has some sort of theological issue with it.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on August 30, 2011, 05:22:57 AM
Typing on a phone...sometimes miss who is talking. To clarify, I like Barca and root for it. It's just it would probably be better idea to not create enemies oit of thin air. SA is varied and composed of many different types. People like me...
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Vellos on August 30, 2011, 05:23:23 AM
In order to have a theocratic republic, we would have to have a state religion.

We have pseudo-state-religions in Terran now. Sanguis Astroism and Triunism hold special legal privileges, and other religions have slightly restricted access.

Nobody in Terran is hyper-critical of Sanguis Astroism, or at least not public. I have nothing against SA. I don't want a modern Republic.

It's worth noting that ancient Greek republics had a state religion. I seem to recall Socrates drinking hemlock after being convicted of charges which included theological deviations of various kinds.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: De-Legro on August 30, 2011, 05:34:54 AM
We have pseudo-state-religions in Terran now. Sanguis Astroism and Triunism hold special legal privileges, and other religions have slightly restricted access.

Nobody in Terran is hyper-critical of Sanguis Astroism, or at least not public. I have nothing against SA. I don't want a modern Republic.

It's worth noting that ancient Greek republics had a state religion. I seem to recall Socrates drinking hemlock after being convicted of charges which included theological deviations of various kinds.

Then obviously Greek Republics are not "real" republics, as defined by the resident expert of political systems, Glaumring.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on August 30, 2011, 05:37:53 AM
I am actually all for greek republic in game.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Geronus on August 30, 2011, 05:40:25 AM
There was also the fact that some people in non SA realms that wanted to usurp power would join SA build a temple in their region then lie about their "persecution" to get more and more SA support.

That really only happened in Springdale with the whole Virovene affair, and we've never lived it down since. There was that lord in Caerwyn who built a temple then raised cane when Caerwyn tried to punish him for it, but the moderates in the Church completely blocked any attempt to interfere in Caerwyn's internal affairs over that incident. The same thing happened more recently when Asylon kicked out the Duchess of Echiur for doing the same thing; moderates in the Church (mostly me, actually, but I was Vasilif of Astrum at the time) immediately moved to quash the protests of Glaumring and Sianon and nothing came of it in the end.

It's interesting to see how events from three real life years ago have taken on such an enduring life in the political mythology of Dwilight.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on August 30, 2011, 05:44:30 AM
Ummmmm I was not for nor endorsed the temple built in Echuir.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Lopeyschools on August 30, 2011, 05:47:45 AM
I was kind of dissing your form of Republic, maybe you didn't get my oh so witty humour. Republic' to indicate rule by many and by laws, is one term. Basically by unilaterally limiting the movement of priests and religion within the republic without public referendum you go against the spirit of Republic. Instead what you have is a dictatorship. Caerwyn became a theocratic Oligarchy, a state controlled by the ruling priest class one that went against the idea of republic, using false information and propaganda, fear to control thought within the state and only allow certain forms of ideas as long as they did not go against the Theocratic state.  Sounds kind of like what had happened in modern Iran, or Cambodia circa the Khmer rouge.

Caerwyn a theocratic oligarchy? Only Baal was a Priest to my knowledge and that was after he stepped down from the position of Archon. Caerwyn banned SA preaching and temples under a public referendum long ago I started playing there, but nobles were free to be followers if they desired it.  I would compare Caerwyn to the anti-communist era in the States more then Iran or Khmer rouge. 

I am actually all for greek republic in game.

If the new colony gets going in Candiels, I hoping to angle Caerwyn towards having more of a roman/greek style republic.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Geronus on August 30, 2011, 05:48:03 AM
Ummmmm I was not for nor endorsed the temple built in Echuir.

Yes, but you certainly weren't shy about making a scene in the Church over what happened after Sianon built it.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: De-Legro on August 30, 2011, 05:49:13 AM
That really only happened in Springdale with the whole Virovene affair, and we've never lived it down since. There was that lord in Caerwyn who built a temple then raised cane when Caerwyn tried to punish him for it, but the moderates in the Church completely blocked any attempt to interfere in Caerwyn's internal affairs over that incident. The same thing happened more recently when Asylon kicked out the Duchess of Echiur for doing the same thing; moderates in the Church (mostly me, actually, but I was Vasilif of Astrum at the time) immediately moved to quash the protests of Glaumring and Sianon and nothing came of it in the end.

It's interesting to see how events from three real life years ago have taken on such an enduring life in the political mythology of Dwilight.

Two D'Hara nobles used the threat of SA to maintain their power, though it was mostly believed that is was all bluff, we did have the Dragon Queen at the time, so it was prudent not to push the issue and find out.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: De-Legro on August 30, 2011, 05:52:06 AM
I am actually all for greek republic in game.

Probably not appropriate on Dwilight. Italian medieval city state republics would fit with the current Europe focused SMA, though given the influence of Greek thinking on western Europe, you could probably make a case for it. I presume you refer to the Athens style republic, because like so many things no two Greek City states agreed on the principles of a republic, not even all city states WHERE republics.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on August 30, 2011, 05:52:12 AM
Yes, but you certainly weren't shy about making a scene in the Church over what happened after Sianon built it.


Holy [email protected]#$ twist history batman. I was the one who told her to tear it the [email protected]#$ down. She unilatteraly built the temple going against the very tennants I wrote into law as king in Asylon. What I made a huff about was Caerwyn aggresion Astrum blew off my warnings and was later attacked... Perhaps I was wrong in a few things but at least I wasn't as delusional as Astrum with their "peace in our time " type speeches.


You make sound like I supported it...
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Lopeyschools on August 30, 2011, 06:11:00 AM
Probably not appropriate on Dwilight. Italian medieval city state republics would fit with the current Europe focused SMA, though given the influence of Greek thinking on western Europe, you could probably make a case for it. I presume you refer to the Athens style republic, because like so many things no two Greek City states agreed on the principles of a republic, not even all city states WHERE republics.

Athens was a republic in name only for a lot of it's history if I recall, various oligarchies or tyrants held the majority of power. Just an influence mind you, not an overt Roman republic
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: De-Legro on August 30, 2011, 06:38:38 AM
Athens was a republic in name only for a lot of it's history if I recall, various oligarchies or tyrants held the majority of power. Just an influence mind you, not an overt Roman republic

As was the case with nearly every republic. They have either been scams from the start, or eventually saw the concentration of power while they still upheld the trappings of a republic.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on August 30, 2011, 06:56:42 AM
That is why it is important to at least strive for the ideal of the republic or lapse into tyranny.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: De-Legro on August 30, 2011, 07:02:26 AM
That is why it is important to at least strive for the ideal of the republic or lapse into tyranny.

That assumes that the republic form is inherently superior. Given its repeated failure to endure and prosper perhaps it simply is as weak as the common men it supposedly empowers.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on August 30, 2011, 07:30:11 AM
Agreed.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Carna on August 30, 2011, 08:15:19 AM
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Adriddae on August 30, 2011, 09:31:01 AM
If SA moderates were heard more and SA extremists less, then maybe impressions would be different, but I'd say the same about those of Muslim faith IRL.



The "moderates" actually dominated up until the Caerwynite Betrayal against Astrum. There were a few who wanted to expand more aggressively and more forcefully before then but they were constantly opposed and so nothing gets done. From my observations the elders do nothing in controversial situations against foreign realms. Usually its mostly the long travel times that prevent SA from enforcing itself across the continent.

Also I think your confusing whats being said on the forums. I've never heard SA wanting to dominate the continent IG. Perhaps preach to the entire continent and eventually convert people, but never dominate/conquer/subjugate it. Its interesting because the fantasies of SA wanting to conquer the continent or "put a SA duke on every city", are usually generated by non-SA people who are afraid. You'll see instances similar to Caerwyn where they are openly hostile to SA realms but are eventually destroyed themselves. Then other realms fear SA for destroying the realm and the pattern repeats itself.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Galvez on August 30, 2011, 10:26:54 AM
Julius doesn't follow any recognized noble religion. And because we as Republic believe in freedom of religion* we prohibited priests from SA to preach in Barca.
* = That is a free as it gets in medieval Europe. As noble you have the right to follow any faith you want, as peasants you just follow the faith of your Lord or whatever is being preached.

I would say that Barca is a oligarchic republic. The Barcan Senate rules the realm. We are nothing like a tyranny.

 
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Bael on August 30, 2011, 11:29:51 AM
Quote
You see, it is true that religion can be a binding force. Regrettably, it can also be a dividing force of dangerous severity. You see, when I was in Caerwyn, I suspect that I was the only individual in the entire realm that made overtures toward friendship with some of nobles of Astrum.

The rest of the realm effectively ignored them. I believe it is this attitude that was partly to blame for bringing about the war, and almost definitely the reason that Caerwyn preferred destruction to surrendering to the Astroists.

An excerpt from a message that my character sent.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Vellos on August 30, 2011, 02:29:51 PM
I'd personally love to see SA more active in Maroccidens. As a player I quite like SA, and my character is a very moderate Triunist, and Triunism already views SA as a variant. We in Terran have been rather disgruntled over Barca's unwillingness to allow SA; the original draft of the Treaty of the Maroccidens had stronger protections for religions, but it was shot down, largely by Barcan opposition.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Bael on August 30, 2011, 02:41:35 PM
I'd personally love to see SA more active in Maroccidens. As a player I quite like SA, and my character is a very moderate Triunist, and Triunism already views SA as a variant. We in Terran have been rather disgruntled over Barca's unwillingness to allow SA; the original draft of the Treaty of the Maroccidens had stronger protections for religions, but it was shot down, largely by Barcan opposition.

I believe the Barcan concern is more about the realm and the Lord's rights, than religions. What good is there in protecting religions? They will continue regardless.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: cjnodell on August 30, 2011, 03:51:17 PM
As a founding member and the first judge of Barca I might be able to shine some insight into Barca's stance on religion, including SA. When I was appointed Judge I wrote out the laws of our republic and presented them to the Senate. The Senat approved the laws I wrote in their entirety.

As far as religion goes, Barca's laws do not specify anything regarding personal practice thus only the laws of the Barca-Terran-D'Hara federation apply for the time being. Preaching or building temples is prohibited for ALL religions unless a representative of a religion gains permission from the Senate. Thus far only Verdis Elementism and I believe Truinism have sought and gained that approval.

As far as enforcement goes it is likely that the judge would order that preaching stop pending approval of the Senate. If a Senator built a temple without permission, I imagine that the Senator would be fined then Senate would decide if they are willing to accept Temples of that faith in Barca. If not, the offending Senator will be ordered to get rid of the temple. If they do not they will be banned and the new Senator will be tasked with getting rid of the temple. No land owning Senator is exempt from banning as a Lord/Duke can not simultaneously hold a council position.

Barca has the laws and tools, in theory, to control the spread of religions. Of course I can only say what my character would have done. Cedric is hard nosed when it comes to seeing laws followed. None of this would happen unless the senate and judge follow through and I can not say if they would.

As far as Julius' power goes, it officially does not go very far. If one reads our laws it can be clearly seen that he is subject to the Senate will and not the other way around. Thus far, however, the Senate has been content to let him push things through. Most nobles of Barca still give him credit for organizing the founding of Barca and for securing the support of Terran and D'Hara. I doubt that any future leader of Barca will enjoy the same level of autonomy that Julius does.

As far as Barca's general feelings toward SA... I would consider "cautious" the best word. From my perspective in Barca SA has been a force that either incorporates or destroys. None of this makes Barca feel warm and fuzzy when thinking of how the religion might affect things if it were allowed free reign in our little republic!
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on August 30, 2011, 04:50:22 PM
What about the case for Summerdale or Libero? Are they theocracies?just a question.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: vonGenf on August 30, 2011, 05:02:55 PM
What about the case for Summerdale or Libero? Are they theocracies?just a question.

It depends a lot on who you ask, and who's asking.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Kain on August 30, 2011, 10:39:01 PM
What about the case for Summerdale or Libero? Are they theocracies?just a question.

Having had a char in Summerdale until quite recently, I'd say they are absolutely not a theocracy. Don't know about Libero.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Galvez on August 30, 2011, 10:53:56 PM
I do not believe they are ruled by the church, but the SA has a large influence in those lands, right?
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Gustav Kuriga on August 30, 2011, 11:30:01 PM
No, they aren't. Not by a long shot.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Galvez on August 30, 2011, 11:36:12 PM
Then what faith has its presence in those lands? If it is not SA, what would be logical as being surrounded by nothing but SA theocracies..
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Kain on August 30, 2011, 11:44:25 PM
Then what faith has its presence in those lands? If it is not SA, what would be logical as being surrounded by nothing but SA theocracies..

Horrible Pagans? :D
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Gustav Kuriga on August 30, 2011, 11:53:16 PM
Having SA hold a significant presence in a realm, whether in nobles or in number of peasants following the religion, does not a theocracy make. For one, a Theocracy is a government run by the religion, not secular in power. Two, by your definition Asylon is a theocracy, seeing as they allow SA to be practiced and preached in their realm.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on August 31, 2011, 12:11:46 AM
Then by that definition so is Summerdale and Libero. A theocracy in my opinion would be a realm with a singular religion. Question : Does SA tolerate any outside religions to preach within the primary theocracies?
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Anaris on August 31, 2011, 12:28:34 AM
A theocracy in my opinion would be a realm with a singular religion.

I'm afraid your opinion doesn't get to redefine well-known words like theocracy.

To be a theocracy, a realm must be ruled by the religion.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on August 31, 2011, 12:35:13 AM
Our realm hosts 3 religions. Once ruled by botg VE and SA.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Meneldur on August 31, 2011, 02:12:10 AM
I'm afraid your opinion doesn't get to redefine well-known words like theocracy.

To be a theocracy, a realm must be ruled by the religion.

Despite dictionary definitions what constitutes a theocracy, particularly a BM theocracy, is a tricky question. None of the SA "theocracies" are not ruled by SA itself, rather they are ruled and guided by SA beliefs (a significant difference). Secular politics is very much out of the Church's control and there are occasional conflicts between secular and ecclesiastical authorities.

To put it another way, the SA theocracies are more like modern "Islamic republics" than the Vatican City; the government itself is separate from the religious institution but the realm's laws are still governed by the tenants of the religion, and its decisions are still guided by religious principles.

This would differ from a realm like the Libero Empire, which has a majority and influential Astroist population (I would not include Summerdale in this category as while there are significant Astroist nobles and temples they are neither the majority nor hugely influential) because while individual nobles might be influenced by Astroist beliefs the Empire's decisions and laws are not primarily guided by/based on the tenants of SA in a truly meaningful way.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Indirik on August 31, 2011, 02:43:17 AM
Question : Does SA tolerate any outside religions to preach within the primary theocracies?
At one time Morek, the original theocracy of SA, hosted two separate religions: SA and the Seven. (The Seven was founded in Springdale, and came to Morek when the Springdale duchy swapped allegiance to Morek. I tried to convince Morek to wipe them out, but they wouldn't listen to me. >:( ) Astrum has never allowed a competing religion, and I don't think Corsanctum has, either. Since the Seven disappeared (mostly due to the players in it just giving it up), there hasn't really been a religion to really compete in the north. Hredmonath tried, but they were a tool of the saxon kingdom. No one like them, and no one liked their religion, either. It didn't last very long after Thulsoma started poking the bear with a pointy stick.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: vonGenf on August 31, 2011, 07:50:48 AM
I tried to convince Morek to wipe them out, but they wouldn't listen to me. >:( )

It was easier to wipe them out by telling you we weren't going to wipe them out than by telling you we were.

Quote
Since the Seven disappeared (mostly due to the players in it just giving it up),

A fair amount of them actually converted to SA.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Peri on August 31, 2011, 10:46:53 AM
Then what faith has its presence in those lands? If it is not SA, what would be logical as being surrounded by nothing but SA theocracies..

At least in Libero there should be no other relevant religion around. Don't forget that Springdale Duchy has been a part of Morek for a while, and even if we had our problems to get along with them, overall they started to be converted and I believe now the majority of Libero follows the stars, with temples everywhere. That said, they are not a theocracy and thus will not shape their politics according to the goals and problems of the SA church, even if their secular ties with Morek will likely make them side with the theocracies most of the times.

To put it another way, the SA theocracies are more like modern "Islamic republics" than the Vatican City; the government itself is separate from the religious institution but the realm's laws are still governed by the tenants of the religion, and its decisions are still guided by religious principles.

I think that's a reasonably good comparison.

It didn't last very long after Thulsoma started poking the bear with a pointy stick.

That made me chuckle.  ;D
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Galvez on September 02, 2011, 02:17:01 PM
The Republic is expanding again. The people of Nark hail to us now.

Still less population than Caerwyn. Damn you Farrowfield.  :D
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Peri on September 02, 2011, 02:22:35 PM
The Republic is expanding again. The people of Nark hail to us now.

Right now Barca has 2.5 nobles/region, can you still expand more?
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Galvez on September 02, 2011, 04:57:13 PM
It would indeed be possible to add another region to our Republic.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Geronus on September 04, 2011, 06:41:04 AM
We didn't started off on the right foot with Aurvandil either. They too thought they could 'negotiate' about our claims, and desired Evanburg. But after a while, they have proven to be thrustworthy neigbours.

Well, Aurvandil and Madina are both growing greatly thanks to the dissolution of Caerwyn. The Saxons appear to be moving en masse to Aurvandil while another faction in Caerwyn heads for Madina. Aurvandil now has the knights to expand significantly, including northward should they so desire. But the Veinsormoot would crush them you say? Has the threat of destruction *ever* stopped the Saxons from doing stupid things before?  ;D

Region Takeover   (16 minutes ago)
Aurvandil has taken control of Evanburg , a former rogue region. Aurvandil now controls 7 regions.

Don't say I didn't warn you!  ;D
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Sabrier on September 04, 2011, 03:26:13 PM
You do know we let them have it, right?
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Geronus on September 04, 2011, 06:06:37 PM
You do know we let them have it, right?

Ah, I did not! I thought Barca was fairly set on having Evanburg. Interesting... How far north is Barca planning on letting them push?
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Sabrier on September 04, 2011, 06:17:59 PM
I'm not sure on the northward push, I suspect that would be debated quite a bit. Either way, we are fairly set on having Evanburg, but we've lent it to Aurvandil for the moment.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Geronus on September 04, 2011, 06:52:38 PM
I'm not sure on the northward push, I suspect that would be debated quite a bit. Either way, we are fairly set on having Evanburg, but we've lent it to Aurvandil for the moment.

Intriguing. I take it you'll ask for it back when you enough nobles to hold onto it?
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Vellos on September 04, 2011, 07:28:36 PM
Intriguing. I take it you'll ask for it back when you enough nobles to hold onto it?

I suspect Barca won't ask for it back until they've expanded quite a bit more. This is purely OOC speculation, but I would imagine they will focus expansion on Twainville, and Evanburg is just a distraction.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on September 04, 2011, 09:33:13 PM
Aurvandiil cannot afford a two front war.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Galvez on September 04, 2011, 11:52:23 PM
Yes, we are currently discussing some options. I think it would be the right course of action to expand towards Twainville now, then Gallaecia.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Carna on September 05, 2011, 12:57:13 AM
Evanburg was given as a loan to Aurvandil. I linked to the treaty already, but I'm fairly sure its the conclusion of the war that Evanburg is returned. By then, Barca should well be in a position to take it, also keeping in mind that there's a yearly check in the Barcan Senate. Evanburg is as far as they're going though. Gallaecia is Barca's and they'll be taking it soon enough one way or another. Aurvandil doesn't need a two-front war when Madina's providing a bigger threat than ever. The only real concern is if the two Caerwyn factions band together and bring peace to Madina and Aurvandil. Who's to say?

Finton.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Galvez on September 14, 2011, 04:55:49 PM
Congratulations to Jens von Namtrah! He managed to hurt the relation between Barca and Madina even further to the point we had to lower our relation to neutral.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Nosferatus on September 14, 2011, 04:59:34 PM
Congratulations to Jens von Namtrah! He managed to hurt the relation between Barca and Madina even further to the point we had to lower our relation to neutral.

hurray!

*opens up another bottle of whiskey*

PS, didn't know relations where poor already, so double hurray!

uuuh, btw, what did he do?
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Telrunya on September 14, 2011, 05:13:03 PM
This has some potential to cause some rifts between various parties.

Jens is the Knight who was looting in Agl and moving through Barcan Lands. I don't know more then that.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Nosferatus on September 14, 2011, 05:17:16 PM
This has some potential to cause some rifts between various parties.


from OOC perspective, wouldn't it be totally awesome to have a total war in the south? :P

if Barca would help the rebels with there allies, perhaps the luriens woudn't sit by idly...
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Galvez on September 14, 2011, 06:00:26 PM
uuuh, btw, what did he do?
He trespassed on Barcan soil to reach Aurvandil and loot Agl. He was to return to Madina immediately and an apology from him and Madina were required for us to forgive this incident. Madina never apologized and Jens moved from Agl back to Celtiberia and continued to Kydonia while I made it very clear that he didn't had permission to travel through Barcan regions. And under the cover of a lie to move to Gallaecia he thought he could ignore me and even move into Evanburg. Something we can not tolerate, ever.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Chenier on September 14, 2011, 06:14:57 PM
He trespassed on Barcan soil to reach Aurvandil and loot Agl. He was to return to Madina immediately and an apology from him and Madina were required for us to forgive this incident. Madina never apologized and Jens moved from Agl back to Celtiberia and continued to Kydonia while I made it very clear that he didn't had permission to travel through Barcan regions. And under the cover of a lie to move to Gallaecia he thought he could ignore me and even move into Evanburg. Something we can not tolerate, ever.

D'Hara doesn't have any evidence of this tresspass, but we aren't pleased either at the idea of Madina using our ports for their war.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Galvez on September 14, 2011, 06:43:40 PM
He admitted using our lands to reach Agl, therefore he must have passed through D'Hara as well.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Telrunya on September 14, 2011, 06:52:46 PM
D'Hara doesn't know that.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Bael on September 14, 2011, 07:13:08 PM
D'Hara doesn't know that.

It must have been the magical unicorns that flew him over their lands then.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Telrunya on September 14, 2011, 08:00:55 PM
Unicorns are overrated. Just catapult yourself over to the other side.

Or he could have sailed via Candiels. It wasn't the first time he was trying to travel through there apparently. Point is, it could be either from the information D'Hara has received. And we're certainly not eager to admit we failed to spot a Madinan Noble sailing to and travelling through our Capital and at least one other region without anyone even noticing it ;)
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Bael on September 14, 2011, 08:08:17 PM
Or he could have sailed via Candiels.


hmmmm, Candiels, Candiels

*Examines map*

Oh! You mean the place that is swarming with warriors and militia? And also happens to be the capital of the realm with which his realm is at war? Hmmm, yep, that's the route that I would put my money on  :P
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Nosferatus on September 14, 2011, 08:26:58 PM

hmmmm, Candiels, Candiels

*Examines map*

Oh! You mean the place that is swarming with warriors and militia? And also happens to be the capital of the realm with which his realm is at war? Hmmm, yep, that's the route that I would put my money on  :P

Ok deal, i'll bet against ye, 150 euros.
Deal 'r no deal?

Hell, i'll double it!
Plus i'll include that he did it many many times before, and... succeeded!
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Perth on September 14, 2011, 08:40:24 PM
So does the 'moot finally get to invade Madina?

Barca... start calling for war, already!
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Telrunya on September 14, 2011, 08:48:03 PM
Quote
Oh! You mean the place that is swarming with warriors and militia? And also happens to be the capital of the realm with which his realm is at war? Hmmm, yep, that's the route that I would put my money on

Hey, if he's an Infiltrator, he better be able to avoid a few troops, especially after multiple attempts :P
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Bael on September 14, 2011, 09:28:44 PM
Hey, if he's an Infiltrator, he better be able to avoid a few troops, especially after multiple attempts :P

Not if he's commanding troops, however. Now just how certain are you that he's done it with troops before, as this time?
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Phellan on September 14, 2011, 10:21:02 PM
He admitted using our lands to reach Agl, therefore he must have passed through D'Hara as well.

Now now. . .his boat just landed in your lands.   There's no proof he went through D'Hara!   

From the OOC perspective this is just all really rather funny and adds to things, but IC Vallyn would rather like to run him through as he IS messing up quite a few plans.     

Not that he can admit that to Barca - the Suffete's attitude is just all wrong for Vallyn to make that kind of Admission.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Galvez on September 15, 2011, 12:08:10 AM
So does the 'moot finally get to invade Madina?

Barca... start calling for war, already!
It would be fun, wouldn't it?  :D
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Jens Namtrah on September 15, 2011, 01:02:11 AM
Pity that the average Knight  has no idea WHAT the plans or relations are in that area.

Jens assumed that Barca wouldn't mind, since Evansburg was just "taken" by Aurendil, if he slipped through and messed around a bit. Never heard of a treaty about it.  Not that he cares, of course.

furthermore, if you're aiding our arch enemy, you kind of have to think we'll consider you to be one, too, don't you? lucky I didn't stab you  ::)
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Chenier on September 15, 2011, 01:47:34 AM

hmmmm, Candiels, Candiels

*Examines map*

Oh! You mean the place that is swarming with warriors and militia? And also happens to be the capital of the realm with which his realm is at war? Hmmm, yep, that's the route that I would put my money on  :P

He could have set to evasive and gotten very, very lucky.

He admitted using our lands to reach Agl, therefore he must have passed through D'Hara as well.

You told neither D'Hara nor the 'moot this. You just told us he was presently trespassing your lands, without stating how he first got there and without mentioning his admittance of guilt.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Phellan on September 15, 2011, 02:18:30 AM
Heh Jens :)  No one knows our plans. . .well the Council does.  I had to push it ahead.  We'll see how it goes in the next day ^.^   

As for how Jens got there. . . I still vote he took at boat up to Agl along the coast ;)  you Can't prove me wrong!  I mean, he DID just get there >.>
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Jens Namtrah on September 15, 2011, 02:20:06 AM
Heh Jens :)  No one knows our plans. . .well the Council does.  I had to push it ahead.  We'll see how it goes in the next day ^.^   

As for how Jens got there. . . I still vote he took at boat up to Agl along the coast ;)  you Can't prove me wrong!  I mean, he DID just get there >.>

He's an infil. He just "gets places"   8)
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Bael on September 15, 2011, 12:10:00 PM
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Galvez on September 15, 2011, 02:58:52 PM
Pity that the average Knight  has no idea WHAT the plans or relations are in that area.

Jens assumed that Barca wouldn't mind, since Evansburg was just "taken" by Aurendil, if he slipped through and messed around a bit. Never heard of a treaty about it.  Not that he cares, of course.

furthermore, if you're aiding our arch enemy, you kind of have to think we'll consider you to be one, too, don't you? lucky I didn't stab you  ::)
We are not aiding your arch enemy. But why didn't you stabbed Julius? I dare you..  :D
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Jens Namtrah on September 15, 2011, 03:14:19 PM
We are not aiding your arch enemy. But why didn't you stabbed Julius? I dare you..  :D

You let them have a townland, or did I misunderstand?
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: DoctorHarte on September 15, 2011, 05:41:47 PM
You let them have a townland, or did I misunderstand?

Barca isn't in the position to TO a townland and cut off Aurvandil from expanding. I don't think either realms want that tension.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Bael on September 15, 2011, 06:23:10 PM
I suppose you'll just have to find out the truth of the townsland ingame ;)
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Sabrier on September 15, 2011, 06:36:45 PM
Or the wiki, which is considered ingame isn't it? Or am I just terribly confused.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Galvez on September 15, 2011, 07:13:57 PM
The wiki is considered in-game knowledge, unless it is mentioned that the information is only accessible for certain characters or groups or is obviously an ooc information page.

You can look up the treaty, but that won't reveal the reasons behind the treaty.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: vanKaya on September 15, 2011, 08:44:43 PM
Barca isn't in the position to TO a townland and cut off Aurvandil from expanding. I don't think either realms want that tension.

Barca is certainly in a position to cut off Aurvandil from expanding. You forget that any territorial dispute would not be Aurvandil v. Barca, but rather Aurvandil v. Barca, Terran, D'hara
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Carna on September 15, 2011, 09:24:18 PM
Evanburg as a region builds up while in Aurvandil control. They can certainly manage the estate support, though its lord should visit more often. Still, if Barca wasn't ready to take it, no harm letting someone else gets its population up to reasonable levels and hand a more built up region back. After all, it will be Aurvandil vs Barca, Terran, D'Hara in a few months time as readily as now.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Galvez on October 10, 2011, 04:45:36 PM
For weeks we are asking for some monsters, and then suddenly undead attack Kydonia and multiply. At the same monent monsters attack Thysan and not much later they span in Celtiberia. Two regions cleared, one to go.  ;) Lets hope more of them will show up during the winter.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: vonGenf on October 10, 2011, 04:59:21 PM
For weeks we are asking for some monsters.

I thought TMP was turned off. Do you want them just for fun?
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Galvez on October 10, 2011, 05:40:41 PM
It is certainly more intersting than sitting around doing nothing. From a player perspective, yes I do want them for fun.  :D
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Chenier on October 10, 2011, 07:18:08 PM
It is certainly more intersting than sitting around doing nothing. From a player perspective, yes I do want them for fun.  :D

Expand! Estates aren't limiting you anymore. Quick, double that food output!
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Telrunya on October 10, 2011, 07:28:51 PM
Expand to Rurals and Non-Cities he means ;)
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Chenier on October 10, 2011, 08:29:40 PM
Expand to Rurals and Non-Cities he means ;)

Obviously. Did I really need to point this out?  8)

Edit: After all, they can make more gold by selling the food to D'Hara than by taking Twainville.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Galvez on October 10, 2011, 09:34:42 PM
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Chenier on October 10, 2011, 10:18:17 PM
We have plans for the spring.

And of course you would want us to expand to rural regions, but to defend them we need Twainville as outpost for our forces. Because travel times are killing me.

Doesn't matter if they are overrun every now and then. Expand! Expand to the rurals!
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: DoctorHarte on October 10, 2011, 10:39:09 PM
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Chenier on October 10, 2011, 11:29:24 PM
Slow and steady seems to be more of the 'Moots strategy. Very accurate and organized, too.

That was old estates, now we must expand!

The only thing stopping us from TOing the lighthouse right away is that the capital must be moved first.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: JPierreD on October 11, 2011, 01:15:37 AM
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: De-Legro on October 11, 2011, 01:25:51 AM
Why?

Distance from the Capital I would assume. They want to make sure they don't lose the region to control issues.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Chenier on October 11, 2011, 01:31:09 AM
Distance from the Capital I would assume. They want to make sure they don't lose the region to control issues.

Port Raviel is the old capital. Paisly was only a conveniant capital when we lost all of our eastern lands. Travel times from Paisly to the Lighthouse are quite considerable...

Plus, I'd rather Paisly take the hits for the capital move before the army is busy doing the TO than after.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Carna on October 11, 2011, 05:12:45 AM
Quote
Letter from Francis Adams Kinsey (9 hours, 24 minutes ago)
Message sent to the Bankers of Dwilight (15 recipients)
D'Hara's warehouses cannot hold anymore. We're already over-capacity and seeing food rots.

We are working on building more warehouses.

Sir Francis Adams Kinsey
General and Fiduciary of D'Hara, Duke of Port Raviel, Marshal of the Dragon Corps

What's the point in rushing it when D'Hara isn't in a position right now to buy the vast quantities (well, large quantities) of food that Barca already has. We'll take rural regions. That's practically all that's left. No need to rush. Fighting monsters and undead is more fun than sitting in a region for a few days, though the related elections probably would provide a bit more entertainment.

Build those warehouses a bit quicker and we'll take more lands to provide more food (for more gold). While Barca has enough food to last for quite some time without taking into account fresh harvests, we at a good point to bide our time, build our strength and be ready to move quickly once the roads get better. Course, it will be ten days on the trot with no taxes in an hour's time, if the same problem continues. Should be intewesting.

Finn.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Vellos on October 11, 2011, 06:30:51 AM
You need warehouses?

Bah! D'Harans are so bad at communicating.

Hireshmont offered to give ya'll a 2,000 gold zero interest loan from his personal reserves two weeks ago for warehouse construction. Didn't Marche tell you?
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Phellan on October 11, 2011, 07:25:35 AM
You need warehouses?

Bah! D'Harans are so bad at communicating.

Hireshmont offered to give ya'll a 2,000 gold zero interest loan from his personal reserves two weeks ago for warehouse construction. Didn't Marche tell you?

Just ship that 2000gp down to Madina and we'll send you our food instead.   Feasts all winter long in D'Hara!
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Bael on October 11, 2011, 10:06:25 AM
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Telrunya on October 11, 2011, 10:19:50 AM
Quote
Hireshmont offered to give ya'll a 2,000 gold zero interest loan from his personal reserves two weeks ago for warehouse construction. Didn't Marche tell you?

He did, but I guess Hireshmont and Marche never concluded those talks :P

Lol, its hardly like we (or you) need more food than there is now ::)  :P

We always need more food. Having more food now means our Cities will grow like rabbits (the only thing those peasants are good at), which means much higher food needs next Winter ;)
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Galvez on October 11, 2011, 10:25:21 AM
And if we can not keep up with the demands for next winter, those rabbits will starve to death again.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Telrunya on October 11, 2011, 10:31:48 AM
Eh, such is life!
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Chenier on October 11, 2011, 01:51:46 PM
Ignore him! I don't care that I have over 3000 bushels in Paisly! Keep it coming!
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Vellos on October 11, 2011, 05:58:23 PM
And, food output will expand again next winter. Terran is taking Vassar, Lavendrow, Faithhill, and Demyansk. We expect to be able to regularly export some food in the future.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Indirik on October 11, 2011, 06:26:09 PM
And, food output will expand again next winter. Terran is taking Vassar, Lavendrow, Faithhill, and Demyansk. We expect to be able to regularly export some food in the future.
Doh! I sense a war coming on!
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Peri on October 11, 2011, 07:26:49 PM
Doh! I sense a war coming on!

schhhht
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Chenier on October 11, 2011, 07:35:13 PM
Good, we'll be able to cut our dependance from these greedy madinians!  8)
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Carna on October 11, 2011, 08:32:22 PM
Doh! I sense a war coming on!

In order to limit someone's ability to export food or why?
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Phellan on October 11, 2011, 09:05:59 PM
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Chenier on October 11, 2011, 09:07:40 PM
We'll just have to export to feed Giask.

Come to think of it, maybe we *should* support Aurvandil...  8)
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Vellos on October 11, 2011, 09:08:43 PM
Doh! I sense a war coming on!

Over Demyansk? Or over all of it? Because I've got no idea how Lavendrow could be anyone else's claim. And Asylon (led by an Astroist, notably) has already ceded claim to those regions.

However, it's looking like Terran might not have enough nobles. Just had two accounts locked. We have 16-17 characters in Terran, and were hoping to be holding 16 regions when the current round of expansion was done. That may need to be reduced, now. Maybe just 14 or 15, with knights in cities.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Vellos on October 11, 2011, 09:09:18 PM
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Nosferatus on October 11, 2011, 09:16:16 PM
You get hilariously smug when your city is fed.

Come next round of starvation, I suspect you'll be a peacenik again.

Like a fat pig. ;)
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Indirik on October 11, 2011, 09:40:09 PM
Over Demyansk? Or over all of it? Because I've got no idea how Lavendrow could be anyone else's claim. And Asylon (led by an Astroist, notably) has already ceded claim to those regions.
Well, since it hasn't actually happened yet, I won't go into any specifics. But I would think that to someone as savvy as a member of the Vellos family, it should be pretty obvious.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: JPierreD on October 11, 2011, 11:18:16 PM
I guess the new GF theocracy would claim Demyansk.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Perth on October 12, 2011, 02:38:32 AM
And Asylon (led by an Astroist, notably) has already ceded claim to those regions.

Not only that, but the likely duchy's duke it would be belong to is some fancy mumbo jumbo Light Auspicious of SA or something or other..

Oh.. wait...

Uh.. oh..
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Indirik on October 12, 2011, 02:44:41 PM
Uh.. oh..
So... the neurons started firing, eh?
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Vellos on October 12, 2011, 04:12:42 PM
I don't get it.

Labell and Allison hate each other?
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Indirik on October 12, 2011, 04:17:39 PM
I really don't know if they hate each other or not. But would that make any difference?
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: DoctorHarte on October 12, 2011, 08:31:02 PM
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Galvez on October 13, 2011, 12:59:18 AM
Help us and we'll give you cheap food deals  ;)
Free food might pursue them.  ;)
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Vellos on October 13, 2011, 01:15:29 AM
I really don't know if they hate each other or not. But would that make any difference?

They're both naturally combative and belligerent people?

They have theological differences?

I'm speculating here. For those of us not in SA, you're being very cryptic.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Indirik on October 13, 2011, 02:21:12 AM
It really has nothing to do with SA or Labell. I have no idea what their IC relationship is. My comments only concerned the fact that Terran is moving north, and that's likely to start a war. That's all. But really, it should all be handled IC.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Galvez on October 13, 2011, 10:41:40 PM
Well, I don't see Astrum marching south because if Terran annexes faithhill, but ok. I guess we would see soon enough what happens then.  ;)
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: vanKaya on October 14, 2011, 12:01:22 AM
god i hate the region name faithhill....
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Vellos on October 14, 2011, 12:43:29 AM
god i hate the region name faithhill....

I 100% agree.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: JPierreD on October 14, 2011, 12:55:00 AM
I 100% agree.

I have similar issues with Dantooine and Vaal.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Indirik on October 14, 2011, 02:37:12 AM
... and Vaal.
What's the story on this one?
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: DoctorHarte on October 14, 2011, 03:57:04 AM
I love Kid's Rock, forget who suggest Tom name  region as that...

I also wish I was Lord of Smokey Hills...  ::)
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Bedwyr on October 14, 2011, 04:02:43 AM
Kybcyell just annoys me.  I want someone to take it for the express purpose of allowing me to burn it to the ground.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: DoctorHarte on October 14, 2011, 05:33:36 AM
Kybcyell just annoys me.  I want someone to take it for the express purpose of allowing me to burn it to the ground.

Hey, I was lord of Kybyell for a while.. yeah nothing too spectacular about the place. But why the annoyance?
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: JPierreD on October 14, 2011, 06:49:43 AM
What's the story on this one?

Just the reference to the RL location of the Vaal River (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaal_River) (perhaps better known by the Transvaal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transvaal_Colony) Republic).

Yea, I don't like Aquitaine, Valkyrja or Wurzburg either, but my character is luckily far away from those. Lusitania, Celtiberia and Gallaecia  are not my preferred names either, but perhaps that is just me being picky.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Bedwyr on October 14, 2011, 06:51:00 AM
Hey, I was lord of Kybyell for a while.. yeah nothing too spectacular about the place. But why the annoyance?

It was the name of a brief colony in Wayburg (AT), and the "conversations" that resulted after Abington started retaking the city resulted in the first time I put someone on my ignore list.  Took four years before I put someone else on it, at that.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: JPierreD on October 14, 2011, 06:51:38 AM
I love Kid's Rock, forget who suggest Tom name  region as that...

I also wish I was Lord of Smokey Hills...  ::)

You could become!  ;)
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Bael on October 14, 2011, 10:42:13 AM

Yea, I don't like Aquitaine, Valkyrja or Wurzburg either, but my character is luckily far away from those. Lusitania, Celtiberia and Gallaecia  are not my preferred names either, but perhaps that is just me being picky.

Not perhaps. ;)

I quite like Aquitaine. Sounds Roman. And Valkyrja sounds nordic. So both good in my books.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Galvez on October 16, 2011, 09:43:01 PM
... or Wurzburg either, but my character is luckily far away from those. Lusitania, Celtiberia and Gallaecia  are not my preferred names either, but perhaps that is just me being picky.
Yes, you are being picky.  :D Those regions have something Germanic/Celtic, and fit well into Dwilight's SMA.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: vanKaya on October 16, 2011, 11:02:38 PM
Some names I like a lot, like Shokalom, and some I think are a little strange perhaps, like Vashgew or Gretchew, but I can live with all the names for the most part..

except Faithhill....

a pun based on the name of a country singer??? Theres no historical or geographical significance to it.. just a dusty pop culture reference...
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: JPierreD on October 17, 2011, 12:54:30 AM
Yes, you are being picky.  :D Those regions have something Germanic/Celtic, and fit well into Dwilight's SMA.

Yea, I am being picky, but it's just that I don't like RL world references in the regions.
Lusitania = Roman province, modern Portugal.
Celtiberia = Celtic Iberia.
Gallaecia = Hispania Gallaecia, modern Galicia.

Yes, they are not as explicit as Wurzburg or Aquitaine, but the same principle applies.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Kain on October 17, 2011, 01:09:32 AM
Yea, I am being picky, but it's just that I don't like RL world references in the regions.
Lusitania = Roman province, modern Portugal.
Celtiberia = Celtic Iberia.
Gallaecia = Hispania Gallaecia, modern Galicia.

Yes, they are not as explicit as Wurzburg or Aquitaine, but the same principle applies.

I can understand that.

The game began with RL world references though. Look at East Continent (the oldest map). Karbala (Iraq), Viseu (Portugal), Troyes (France), Oroya (Peru) and so on.

But other maps have a lot more made up names I think?
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: JPierreD on October 17, 2011, 01:35:53 AM
Indeed, and I personally much prefer them to be made-up names. When I see Shinnen, Sulorte, Smokey Hills I see a white paper in where to write. When I see RL name references I see a lot of luggage it carries within, which while I can ignore, it will be always coming back. It's like playing in an already themed region, in a way.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Anaris on October 17, 2011, 01:39:24 AM
Indeed, and I personally much prefer them to be made-up names. When I see Shinnen, Sulorte, Smokey Hills I see a white paper in where to write. When I see RL name references I see a lot of luggage it carries within, which while I can ignore, it will be always coming back. It's like playing in an already themed region, in a way.

I have absolutely no objection to real-world locations, provided the names date back to the period we are mimicking.

I find region names like Faithhill, Kid's Rock, and Dantooine childish, and think that whoever suggested them as possibilities for Dwilight should be ashamed of himself.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Geronus on October 17, 2011, 01:40:32 AM
I find region names like Faithhill, Kid's Rock, and Dantooine childish, and think that whoever suggested them as possibilities for Dwilight should be ashamed of himself.

Come on, now tell us how you really feel!

 8)
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Vellos on October 17, 2011, 02:21:48 AM
I have absolutely no objection to real-world locations, provided the names date back to the period we are mimicking.

I find region names like Faithhill, Kid's Rock, and Dantooine childish, and think that whoever suggested them as possibilities for Dwilight should be ashamed of himself.

Faithhill is just annoying to spell. I don't like the 2 H's.

Kid's Rock... I'm okay with. It sounds like it could be a plausible name. And the surrounding regions seem similarly themed.

Dantooine has always bothered me.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Bedwyr on October 17, 2011, 02:26:48 AM
I find region names like Faithhill, Kid's Rock, and Dantooine childish, and think that whoever suggested them as possibilities for Dwilight should be ashamed of himself.

The region names were decided well before Dwilight was announced as an SMA continent, weren't they?  I thought that was one of the major issues with the European only rule too, that a lot of the names aren't European so people were developing non-European ideas.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: vanKaya on October 17, 2011, 02:46:23 AM

Lusitania = Roman province, modern Portugal.


I always thought Lusitania was a reference to the ship that was sunk in WWI and prompted the US to declare war. Which, I think, is not a bad reference for a region name.

and while I can appreciate the "blank page" argument, its also nice to have some sort of indication as to the style of the city, ie. Wurzberg German style. I think of it as "lined paper", if you will.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Chenier on October 17, 2011, 02:47:37 AM
The region names were decided well before Dwilight was announced as an SMA continent, weren't they?  I thought that was one of the major issues with the European only rule too, that a lot of the names aren't European so people were developing non-European ideas.

European-only rule came in pretty darn late in Dwi's development. Right as it was being released, actually, I believe.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: JPierreD on October 17, 2011, 03:08:51 AM
I always thought Lusitania was a reference to the ship that was sunk in WWI and prompted the US to declare war. Which, I think, is not a bad reference for a region name.

The name of that ship is a reference to the Lusitania (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lusitania) I mention. In the same way the Bismark battleship is a reference to Otto Von Bismark.

and while I can appreciate the "blank page" argument, its also nice to have some sort of indication as to the style of the city, ie. Wurzberg German style. I think of it as "lined paper", if you will.

Unterstrom and Weinschenk are German-style names. Wurzburg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W%C3%BCrzburg) is a very, very famous German city. More of an extremely detailed fresco than lined paper.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Chenier on October 17, 2011, 03:30:52 AM
Wurzburg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W%C3%BCrzburg) is a very, very famous German city. More of an extremely detailed fresco than lined paper.

Never heard of it.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: vanKaya on October 17, 2011, 08:18:45 AM
We'd probably feel the same if it was Winnipeg or something, Chenier.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Galvez on October 17, 2011, 09:47:42 AM
@JPierreD, did you already knew those things, or did you feel like googling all regions of Dwilight?  ;)
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: JPierreD on October 17, 2011, 10:35:33 AM
@JPierreD, did you already knew those things, or did you feel like googling all regions of Dwilight?  ;)

I live in Brazil, were Lusitania is a poetic way of referencing to Portugal, and the Luso- prefix means Portugal. I'm of French descent, so Aquitaine is not unknown to me. The first time I learned about Wurzburg was probably because of the Bishopric of Wurzburg in the HRE (Europa Universalis FTW!). I didn't know Valkyrja was the Old Norse for the Valkyries, but the relation was evident. Celtiberia is pretty intuitive. Gallaecia was the one I less knew about, it ticked my mind because I supposed it was one of the many Galicias (http://cominganarchy.com/2009/10/09/which-galicia/), but didn't know which one.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Nosferatus on October 17, 2011, 12:45:45 PM
The names for Dqilight where submited by the comunity.
There many reference to ancient european (barbarian) peoples or places or the usernames of some devs who made the island (Giask and Darfix).
But also to (modern) literature, like the game of thrones series.

More about it, read this page:

http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/West_Continent/Region_Name_Proposals
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Perth on October 17, 2011, 04:50:13 PM
(Europa Universalis FTW!).

Hell yes.

I've been playing so much EU3 this past week.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Anaris on October 17, 2011, 07:12:30 PM
The region names were decided well before Dwilight was announced as an SMA continent, weren't they?  I thought that was one of the major issues with the European only rule too, that a lot of the names aren't European so people were developing non-European ideas.

SMA is irrelevant here.  Unless we were setting up an island to specifically be a parody, I wouldn't want names like that on it.  They're so totally against the feel of BM in general, they should never have even been considered.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Bedwyr on October 17, 2011, 07:17:35 PM
SMA is irrelevant here.  Unless we were setting up an island to specifically be a parody, I wouldn't want names like that on it.  They're so totally against the feel of BM in general, they should never have even been considered.

For all I knew, there was going to be an Outer Tilog on Dwilight.  I know there was one group talking about doing something that was close to that end of the silliness scale.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Perth on October 17, 2011, 07:17:40 PM
Why is there not a region named Ni!?

C'mon, we have a problem with Knights being loyal/proud of their region... name a region Ni and see what happens!
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Nosferatus on October 17, 2011, 07:44:40 PM
Why is there not a region named Ni!?

C'mon, we have a problem with Knights being loyal/proud of their region... name a region Ni and see what happens!

haha, good one!
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Vellos on October 17, 2011, 08:20:13 PM
Unless we were setting up an island to specifically be a parody,

Which sounds like a LOT of fun.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Perth on October 18, 2011, 01:32:51 AM
I wouldn't even mind playing on an actual map of Europe. I think it could be pretty fun.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Anaris on October 18, 2011, 01:41:21 AM
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: JPierreD on October 18, 2011, 02:39:56 AM
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Phellan on October 18, 2011, 04:56:41 AM
Neither would I. A map of Europe, a Parody map or another themed map, but then the ambient would be different. I would rather let Europe and Parody stay out of Dwilight.

A Europe Parody Map would have at least one of my chars on it, guaranteed ;)  I love the SMA of Dwilight, but a really silly place would probably kill me with RP :D

Though we kinda already have a bit of that - since FEI is a map of England and Scotland.   It works well, no reason a Europe map wouldn't.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Vellos on October 18, 2011, 05:02:49 AM
FEI is a map of England and Scotland.

What?
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Phellan on October 18, 2011, 07:00:58 AM
It tilts the wrong way, but FEI is very similar to the lay out of England.

Bataesor - London
Hadthes - Cardiff
Masahakon - Bristol
Liverpool - Anacan


It's a very general map, but looks very similar . . .enough I always felt it was not coincidence.  Maybe it is X.x
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Chenier on October 18, 2011, 08:49:57 AM
Ah, Barca, our beloved Barca. Just farm those fields, and we'll love you forever no matter what you say or do.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Lefanis on October 18, 2011, 09:30:24 AM
It tilts the wrong way, but FEI is very similar to the lay out of England.

Bataesor - London
Hadthes - Cardiff
Masahakon - Bristol
Liverpool - Anacan


It's a very general map, but looks very similar . . .enough I always felt it was not coincidence.  Maybe it is X.x

And Arcachon is Ireland, except at the top  :D
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Galvez on October 18, 2011, 01:32:16 PM
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Chenier on October 18, 2011, 01:54:59 PM
Eregon too, while you are at it! :P
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Galvez on October 18, 2011, 05:01:20 PM
To close to Zuma territory.. other regions are far more interesting. And, due to the long, very long travel times, it would be a pain in the ass defending both regions without annexing Twainville first.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Chenier on October 18, 2011, 05:52:47 PM
To close to Zuma territory.. other regions are far more interesting. And, due to the long, very long travel times, it would be a pain in the ass defending both regions without annexing Twainville first.

Close to Zuma means less random rogues!!!  :D
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Carna on October 19, 2011, 02:29:52 AM
And more reliable Demons? Is there such a thing?

As it stands, Barca will be taking Gallaecia, Twainwood and Twainville. After that, there may or may not be more in the coming year. See how things stand. I wouldn't be surprised to see Eragon and Ulitisa civilized either, both which would add greater food production (though not equal to Gallaecia, Celtiberia or Kydonia, in that order).

There's every reason to take the Zuma bordering regions, but that doesn't mean my character will be terribly eager to participate. Its like walking along the edge of a cliff. Don't pay sufficient attention or, far more likely, be the unlucky victim of a cruel (aka Demonic) twist of fate and you're splat.

I'm very curious to see how much food Barca will produce this time next Dwi year.

Finn.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Chenier on October 19, 2011, 02:39:12 AM
And more reliable Demons? Is there such a thing?

As it stands, Barca will be taking Gallaecia, Twainwood and Twainville. After that, there may or may not be more in the coming year. See how things stand. I wouldn't be surprised to see Eragon and Ulitisa civilized either, both which would add greater food production (though not equal to Gallaecia, Celtiberia or Kydonia, in that order).

There's every reason to take the Zuma bordering regions, but that doesn't mean my character will be terribly eager to participate. Its like walking along the edge of a cliff. Don't pay sufficient attention or, far more likely, be the unlucky victim of a cruel (aka Demonic) twist of fate and you're splat.

I'm very curious to see how much food Barca will produce this time next Dwi year.

Finn.

Gimme more raw numbers and I can calculate estimates!  8)

I've got food pretty much figured out, now I just need to figure out population growth functions.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Galvez on October 19, 2011, 03:13:31 PM
I believe the normal growth rate is 1% of the total capacity per day, however the system of Dwilight is far more complex.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Chenier on October 19, 2011, 05:57:32 PM
I believe the normal growth rate is 1% of the total capacity per day, however the system of Dwilight is far more complex.

Actually, I think even the normal system considers current population: you gain more peasants a turn when your city is at half pop than at 1 pop. Testing does have the peasant migrations which considerably complexify the equation, though.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Carna on October 19, 2011, 07:01:07 PM
Not that we in Barca are complaining. As a matter of fact, I'd like to take a moment and thank all of Barca's neighbours (well, maybe not the Zuma) for the vast quantities of peasants that have arrived to do our work for us. Win-win for D'Hara at least :)
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Chenier on October 19, 2011, 07:15:16 PM
Not that we in Barca are complaining. As a matter of fact, I'd like to take a moment and thank all of Barca's neighbours (well, maybe not the Zuma) for the vast quantities of peasants that have arrived to do our work for us. Win-win for D'Hara at least :)

Sure is! Keep on stealing our peasants!

It's also why I pushed for Terran to expand in order to gain a border with Barca, with temporary acquisitions if need be, back then.

You also don't need Rettleville yet, Rettlewood is enough. Let the rurals grow bigger first. ;)
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Galvez on October 19, 2011, 08:02:50 PM
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Telrunya on October 19, 2011, 08:07:15 PM
Don't you know that Barca now consists for 1/3 out of D'Hara criminals and 1/3 out of Terran criminals because of all the peasants banished for leaving their homeland? ;)
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Chenier on October 19, 2011, 08:11:42 PM
Why bother with illegal immigrants when you have illegal emigrants? :P
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Carna on October 19, 2011, 10:41:18 PM
"Go on! Go to Barca and never come back!"

Maybe its as simple as the never come back part. D'Hara doesn't need more mouths so if they come back rather than work Barca's fields, D'Haran nobility might be a wee bit angry..

And yeah, Barca is like Australia in the good ole colonial days. Sunny too (if you can see through the overgrowth). But we don't mind, because we need peasants to work Barca's fields and who has better work ethics than rehabilitated criminals who can never return to their old homes? They have nowhere else so they better start hoeing or whatever.

Good times  8)

Finn.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Vellos on October 20, 2011, 03:40:58 AM
To the north and east: Terran and D'Haran bureaucrats all to happy to string them up.

To the south: Aurvandi fanatics who might sacrifice them to strange gods.

To the west: monsters. And then Zuma. Who will also sacrifice you to strange gods.

Best option for peasants?

Work your ass off in Barcan rice fields.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Chenier on October 20, 2011, 05:51:43 AM
To the north and east: Terran and D'Haran bureaucrats all to happy to string them up.

To the south: Aurvandi fanatics who might sacrifice them to strange gods.

To the west: monsters. And then Zuma. Who will also sacrifice you to strange gods.

Best option for peasants?

Work your ass off in Barcan rice fields.

D'Haran criminals can have a light sentence, or a death sentence. If it's light, then they get to be sent off colonize and farm Barcan lands to make it hospitable for civilization. If they get the death sentence, we give just them a new home in Port Nebel. It's only a matter of time after that before justice is achieved.  8)
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Carna on October 20, 2011, 03:50:10 PM
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Galvez on October 21, 2011, 01:21:00 AM
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Chenier on October 21, 2011, 01:23:17 AM
Keep on coming with those criminals. As long as they work our field and pay tax, they can stay.

Maybe we'll declare eating a crime. That way, you'll get more workers! :P
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Galvez on October 21, 2011, 11:25:13 AM
There already stands a punishment on eating, starvation.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: egamma on October 26, 2011, 05:43:47 AM
There already stands a punishment on eating, starvation.

Isn't that the punishment for NOT eating?
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Chenier on October 26, 2011, 05:48:24 AM
Isn't that the punishment for NOT eating?

For both! Problem solved!
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Rogi on October 28, 2011, 03:42:31 PM
Finally Barca has achieved to take over Gallaecia, and will surely add Twainwood soon. Let's see how this game year advances and how far Barca can expand.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Chenier on October 28, 2011, 05:48:58 PM
Finally Barca has achieved to take over Gallaecia, and will surely add Twainwood soon. Let's see how this game year advances and how far Barca can expand.

If only food production could go above 100%, I'd invest in Barca without a second thought.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Bael on October 28, 2011, 10:13:16 PM
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Chenier on October 28, 2011, 10:15:09 PM
Don't forget that most of the regions are underproducing ;) That means that most of them are sitting around 60% or so!

Is population high enough, though?

And if it makes production climb 110%, but food production only rises 40%, I'm not getting much returns on that investment.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Carna on October 29, 2011, 06:15:24 AM
Gallaecia is stopped. Nark is slow. After that, you're probably right that you'll reach the limit of food production and fail to go past that. Rettleville is thriving though. Plenty of hungry mouths  8)

Feel free to hold your breath. Twainwood will be taken quickly enough to stave off suffocation.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Galvez on October 30, 2011, 08:41:14 PM
In size we are just as large as D'Hara, now lets reach their population count.  :D
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Indirik on October 30, 2011, 11:36:33 PM
Well, if history holds true, D'Hara will starve themselves down to your level before too long.

Although, who knows. Maybe the new estate system will let them break their track record.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Galvez on October 31, 2011, 12:42:52 AM
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Chenier on October 31, 2011, 05:54:05 AM
Well, if history holds true, D'Hara will starve themselves down to your level before too long.

Although, who knows. Maybe the new estate system will let them break their track record.

Regaining Nebel, Qulbel, and Qubel Lighthouse truly will help. This is partly thanks to the new estates. Most importantly, however, will be the new estates' effect on Barca, as they are producing more and more food, and we'll be able to rely on them a lot more to feed us, as opposed to the greedy Madinians nobody likes anyways.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Carna on October 31, 2011, 07:33:08 AM
Hehe. Well, Barca will be taking Twainville shortly which will mean more mouths to feed. But Gallaecia's food output by Autumn should be impressive, and I doubt that will be the only rural region Barca takes control of this year. D'Hara probably won't be reliant on Madina, but I suspect that doesn't mean D'Hara won't continue to buy food from them. Trading hub, remember? Could get to the point where if any of the Lurian realms want to buy food, they contact D'Hara and a trader arrives through the Giask ferry route  :P

Barca's doing well beyond just the land gains though. We did lose Cedric unexpectedly, which is a genuine shame, but we're getting other nobles with a lot of potential. The election for Twainwood is surprisingly a whole lot more interesting than the election for Gallaecia was. The fact that Barca now fields an army more than capable of dealing with any monster/undead threat is also something of a comfort and milestone. I was talking to another player from Barca in the last day or two and we both were mightily impressed with how positive things are looking there right now. From my own perspective, the new estate and tax systems work quite well. We're still working some things out, more to do with how the changes effect how things like appointments are operated, but Barca is certainly seeing the benefits.

Good times  8)

Finn.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Gustav Kuriga on October 31, 2011, 07:59:49 AM
I hate to butt in on a Barca thread, but since we're talking about food, has anyone here seen the stats for Farrowfield? They're insane.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Carna on October 31, 2011, 08:14:24 AM
Nope. Post 'em!

Better than:
Gold:       704 gold
Food:       293 bushels

?
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Gustav Kuriga on October 31, 2011, 08:18:26 AM
Gold:       754 gold
Food:       330 bushels

Gets more than most rurals!!! Dear lord...
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Carna on October 31, 2011, 08:26:22 AM
Wow. Who wants Gallaecia, eh?  ::)

The stats I posted were from Evanburg. Wurzburg is not quite as good. Then again, I never really expected the townsland around Golden Farrow to be anything less than fairly spectacular. Sorta close to what I'd expect from Under Darfix.

Any word on when that colony will be taking off? Going to wait for expansion down from Astrum or sooner to start up and meet them halfway there?
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: De-Legro on October 31, 2011, 10:54:14 AM
Gold:       754 gold
Food:       330 bushels

Gets more than most rurals!!! Dear lord...

Outer Giask
Gold:       778 gold
Food:       354 bushels
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Galvez on October 31, 2011, 11:22:07 AM
We indeed have some very rich townslands on Dwilight.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Phellan on November 02, 2011, 05:10:33 AM
We indeed have some very rich townslands on Dwilight.

Most of the Townslands are very nice indeed - almost bettter than most cities on FEI.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: DoctorHarte on November 02, 2011, 09:29:44 PM
Walefishire wasn't bad either, for the week I had it.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Bael on November 02, 2011, 11:09:06 PM
Walefishire wasn't bad either, for the week I had it.

Yeah. it isn't quite on the scale of the others, however.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: DoctorHarte on November 04, 2011, 03:32:46 AM
Yeah. it isn't quite on the scale of the others, however.

Indeed. I imagine Outer Darfix is the best out of them all.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: JPierreD on November 04, 2011, 05:53:42 AM
Indeed. I imagine Outer Darfix is the best out of them all.

Under Darfix's max population is 20.600, while Outer Giask's is 20.200. The difference between them should be small. (Yes, they are larger than many cities).
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Indirik on December 01, 2011, 03:46:13 PM
Alright, who's the one that's been playing with the pointy stick?
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Lefanis on December 01, 2011, 03:52:05 PM
A new war is breaking out   (14 minutes ago)
Zuma Coalition has declared war on Barca.

This I wAnt to see. Veinsormoot against the Zuma.

We Astroists shall then pick off the rest. ;D
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Telrunya on December 01, 2011, 04:04:14 PM
Actually, it's all part of an elaborate plan to put the Zuma against the Lurian Empire and the Theocracies. And Madina and Aurvandil. And why not, put those Northern Realms that are lingering out there in the mix as well.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Indirik on December 01, 2011, 04:10:28 PM
Oh, please elaborate. I'm always up for a good conspiracy theory. :P
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: vonGenf on December 01, 2011, 04:30:01 PM
Oh, please elaborate. I'm always up for a good conspiracy theory. :P

1. Barca dies.

2. ??????

3. Profit!

It's a fool-proof plan!
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Vellos on December 01, 2011, 05:06:31 PM
A new war is breaking out   (14 minutes ago)
Zuma Coalition has declared war on Barca.

This I wAnt to see. Veinsormoot against the Zuma.

We Astroists shall then pick off the rest. ;D

Not gonna happen.

We'd probably abandon Barca before we'd fight the Zuma.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Chenier on December 01, 2011, 05:08:32 PM
Not gonna happen.

We'd probably abandon Barca before we'd fight the Zuma.

Indeed. We don't expect the Zuma to try to destroy Barca anyways, this is just how the Zuma work.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Indirik on December 01, 2011, 05:11:05 PM
We'd probably abandon Barca before we'd fight the Zuma.
So much for all those mutual defense treaties...
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Chenier on December 01, 2011, 05:12:15 PM
So much for all those mutual defense treaties...

They are the Zuma. Resistance is futile.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Indirik on December 01, 2011, 05:14:56 PM
As is, apparently, expecting honorable behavior from the Veinsormoot. :)
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Telrunya on December 01, 2011, 05:17:38 PM
Defence Treaties don't matter when Barca is the aggressor ;)
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Chenier on December 01, 2011, 05:18:10 PM
Defence Treaties don't matter when Barca is the aggressor ;)

Basically.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Indirik on December 01, 2011, 05:22:01 PM
Oh, so Barca attacked Zuma? That seems pretty stupid.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Carna on December 01, 2011, 05:27:59 PM
Yeah, I have no idea why Barca would attack the Zuma. What were we thinking?  ::)
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Chenier on December 01, 2011, 05:29:33 PM
Such things can usually be blamed on PMS.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Carna on December 01, 2011, 05:32:20 PM
Can you explain that in a little more detail? Because saying the Zuma have PMS - true or not - doesn't seem the best of ways to clarify the why's  :'(
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Indirik on December 01, 2011, 05:40:09 PM
Yeah, I have no idea why Barca would attack the Zuma. What were we thinking?  ::)
Oh, so you're not the aggressor then. Well in that case, of course your fellow Veinsormoot realms, with whom you were considering federating, will be eager to jump to your defense.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Chenier on December 01, 2011, 05:42:12 PM
Such things are best shared and explained IG. I personally dislike sharing anything that deals with GM factions over the forums.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Carna on December 01, 2011, 06:22:14 PM
Cause they'll read, laugh and make the demands you said you hope they wouldnt make?
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Chenier on December 01, 2011, 06:25:45 PM
Cause they'll read, laugh and make the demands you said you hope they wouldnt make?

Hmm?
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Carna on December 01, 2011, 06:39:50 PM
The GM's. Not likely what you meant, obviously.

Finding out IC is always more fun though. You get to make up your mind when all the facts arn't available. Allows for disagreements, or agreements, that you wouldn't really expect knowing the full picture. Anyway, we just assume we know IC what's going on. Nothing's been confirmed, so it could be the start of another "Civilization Expanding". For all we know, the new estate system lets them hold more land too  :D
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: egamma on December 01, 2011, 07:12:18 PM
I think that the explanation is simple enough: Barca took Eragon (the region, not the book about the dragon) without asking for permission from the Zuma.

There's some more to the story, but I'd have to start insulting the characters in Barca, so I'll leave it at that.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Carna on December 01, 2011, 07:22:28 PM
There's some more to the story, but I'd have to start insulting the characters in Barca, so I'll leave it at that.

Well, y'know, work away IC. The new food deal with the Zuma means you've no reason not to  8)
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Lorgan on December 01, 2011, 07:35:07 PM
Down with Barca! Their Punic culture in the inlands was doomed from the start anyway.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: [email protected] on December 04, 2011, 07:46:20 PM
I think that the explanation is simple enough: Barca took Eragon (the region, not the book about the dragon) without asking for permission from the Zuma.

There's some more to the story, but I'd have to start insulting the characters in Barca, so I'll leave it at that.

There...is? /me goes to the library to check out that book about the kid who found the dragon egg and that had two sequels about his adventures.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: JPierreD on December 04, 2011, 10:51:20 PM
There...is? /me goes to the library to check out that book about the kid who found the dragon egg and that had two sequels about his adventures.

Don't, it sucks. Balls.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: [email protected] on December 05, 2011, 12:58:45 AM
I finished roughly halfway into the series. And by that I mean I finished Eragon (Not Eregon, see) and read Eldest up to a while. In order to calculate the actual % I completed I would have to get a complete trilogy and look at the total pages and the pages I have read. I do not feel particularly inclined to do that because I heard that the kid doesn't get it on with the dragon in the end, but the elf chick instead. Maybe. Not sure.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Chenier on December 05, 2011, 01:04:41 AM
Don't, it sucks. Balls.

I read like 100 pages, and was like "wtf, this is AWFULLY familiar..."

Then I looked it up on the internet to know how the rest of the plot unfolds. My fear war confirmed: it IS a blatant copy-paste of Star Wars into a fantasy setting. Honestly, I'm surprised the guy hasn't been sued by Lucas Arts for plagiarism (or did he?). Every single plot hook is the same as in the original trilogy.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: [email protected] on December 05, 2011, 01:09:37 AM
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: De-Legro on December 05, 2011, 01:10:18 AM
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Chenier on December 05, 2011, 01:15:56 AM
The evil dude (I don't even know who the evil dude is) is his father?! The dragon and/or the elf chick is really his twin sister (how the heck would that even work)?! Wut?!?!?!

Did you read it?

If not, then indeed, the bad guy is his father. He was raised by his uncle. Which died while he was out discovering his dragon. As for the elf chick, I don't know, but if you look it up, you could surely find it.

Probably because Lucas Arts don't want anyone thinking too carefully about where THEY got the plot for Star Wars from.

Well, if he did copy it off somewhere else, it's not morally better, but at least it's not as blatant...
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: dustole on December 05, 2011, 01:44:47 AM
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: [email protected] on December 05, 2011, 01:49:09 AM
I don't care about who his daddy was! I just wanna know who the kid's twin sister was! Was it the elf chick? Or the dragon? Does he end up with the elf chick or dragon? Or whatever else? Is there anyone else? I thought he just had that elf chick or something, and the dragon met some other dragon that was the last of his kind and they were supposed to do something, but I never read far enough to find out. EragonxSaphira (Or whatever that blue dragon's name is) lololol
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Chenier on December 05, 2011, 03:08:41 AM
The evil guy isn't his father.  It turns out that his mentor, Brom was actually his father...

I thought I read that the bad guy was his father...

Well, I guess perhaps it isn't 100% plagiarism as I thought it was.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: egamma on December 05, 2011, 04:52:00 AM
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Chenier on December 05, 2011, 06:09:47 AM
He also borrowed quite a bit from Tolkien and some other authors.

The 4th book of the trilogy (don't start) is out in stores now, I saw it yesterday.

FYI, he wrote the first book when he was 14. So give him a little credit. But the series is just a religous-political commentary, where the atheistic elves are the enlightened scientists who meditate and are all New Age-y, while the religious dwarves are foolish barbarians with superstitions. I read fantasy to escape reality, not read a commentary on reality.

Good for haven been written 14 year old doesn't mean good. I read for the worth of the book, not the author.

School lecture lists were littered with these things, though. Hardly any of the books I read in school were actually good, and these only came at the end anyways. It's like they take us for morons... -.-
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: De-Legro on December 05, 2011, 06:11:40 AM
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Geronus on December 05, 2011, 03:16:57 PM
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: [email protected] on December 05, 2011, 03:21:19 PM
Dwilight...So...some kid finds a "dragon" egg in Dragon's Roost, and er...Brom Silverfire all the way in PeL is the kid's father?
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Chenier on December 05, 2011, 05:25:34 PM
Dwilight...So...some kid finds a "dragon" egg in Dragon's Roost, and er...Brom Silverfire all the way in PeL is the kid's father?

I knew the Lurians were up to no good.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Vellos on December 05, 2011, 09:21:42 PM
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Chenier on December 05, 2011, 10:10:09 PM
Looks like hard evidence to me!

Sure is!
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: [email protected] on December 05, 2011, 10:34:08 PM
So who's the kid's twin sister that he doesn't know is actually his sister, and the jerk dude who ends up getting hooked up with his sister. This is all very important detail you know.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Chenier on December 05, 2011, 10:51:26 PM
So who's the kid's twin sister that he doesn't know is actually his sister, and the jerk dude who ends up getting hooked up with his sister. This is all very important detail you know.

Read the book and find out. ;)

Or do as I did, and google it. :P
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: [email protected] on December 05, 2011, 11:52:56 PM
If I could read a book and figure out the ending to Dwilight, then I'd be using that knowledge to make sure I benefit from the ending. As it stands, I have found no such book, and Google does not help in those regards.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: JPierreD on December 06, 2011, 12:38:52 AM
If I could read a book and figure out the ending to Dwilight, then I'd be using that knowledge to make sure I benefit from the ending. As it stands, I have found no such book, and Google does not help in those regards.

Here (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/ac/TheNeverendingStory1997Edition.jpg/200px-TheNeverendingStory1997Edition.jpg) you go.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Carna on December 21, 2011, 11:42:07 AM
Am I the only Barcan player who's getting a major pain in his/her arse over, well, just about everything that's [email protected]#$ed up at the moment? And no, I'm not talking about the Zuma, though there is certainly aspects there that'd make me play less and others almost not at all. How long does a holiday go on for? Cause, y'know, that means troops can't be paid because bonds can't be cashed because, unlike stable islands, you get your tax in bonds even when you're in your own duchy. Can't cash bonds? Can't pay troops. That's Rettleville. Sure, go to Twainville. Except that there's more Zuma in Twainwood than Barca's entire military. Zuma demand food? Can't, because we can't send food to a realm we're at war with. Winter in a week or so? Pah, who cares that our harvest has been delayed too.

I am bitching, despite the fact that I get its a testing island. Primarily I'm bitching because its getting downright unplayable in Barca right now. I know I'm not the only one who feels this way since my brother, who it took me ages to get playing, has now pretty much lost interest because of all this. What I want to know is if the Zuma's threat of destroying Barca is that big a deal to anyone? Not me. The bugs we're being inflicted with seem to be doing that far more effectively.

[email protected]#$ed up, if you ask me. This is meant to be fun?
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: De-Legro on December 21, 2011, 11:51:01 AM
Am I the only Barcan player who's getting a major pain in his/her arse over, well, just about everything that's [email protected]#$ed up at the moment? And no, I'm not talking about the Zuma, though there is certainly aspects there that'd make me play less and others almost not at all. How long does a holiday go on for? Cause, y'know, that means troops can't be paid because bonds can't be cashed because, unlike stable islands, you get your tax in bonds even when you're in your own duchy. Can't cash bonds? Can't pay troops. That's Rettleville. Sure, go to Twainville. Except that there's more Zuma in Twainwood than Barca's entire military. Zuma demand food? Can't, because we can't send food to a realm we're at war with. Winter in a week or so? Pah, who cares that our harvest has been delayed too.

I am bitching, despite the fact that I get its a testing island. Primarily I'm bitching because its getting downright unplayable in Barca right now. I know I'm not the only one who feels this way since my brother, who it took me ages to get playing, has now pretty much lost interest because of all this. What I want to know is if the Zuma's threat of destroying Barca is that big a deal to anyone? Not me. The bugs we're being inflicted with seem to be doing that far more effectively.

[email protected]#$ed up, if you ask me. This is meant to be fun?

First I've heard about the holiday issue. Has anyone posted about this earlier? And have you sent a OOC to the Zuma about the bugs that you are facing? I doubt the GM would want to see the realm fail due to some bugs.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Indirik on December 21, 2011, 01:34:23 PM
First I've heard about not being able to cash bonds. Have you posted a bug report about that?

Have you told the Zuma you can't sell them food because of the war declaration? I'm pretty sure that if you remind them of this, they will understand, and perhaps you can work out something else with them.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: De-Legro on December 21, 2011, 01:47:34 PM
First I've heard about not being able to cash bonds. Have you posted a bug report about that?

Have you told the Zuma you can't sell them food because of the war declaration? I'm pretty sure that if you remind them of this, they will understand, and perhaps you can work out something else with them.

Not being able to cash bonds was because the city was stuck in an eternal holiday. I've committed a fix that I think corrects this problem.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Indirik on December 21, 2011, 01:48:40 PM
Not being able to cash bonds was because the city was stuck in an eternal holiday.
Barca: The New Orleans of Dwilight.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Rogi on December 21, 2011, 07:54:16 PM
I've added some problems today to the bugtracker, and one of them was the holiday thing. I hope it is solved, as we have several nobles with units unpaid since 11 days ago.

I also ask all nobles of Barca to report all problems to the bugtracker, let's see if we restore normality. I agree that since the new estate system was established in Dwilights several problems have appeared.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: De-Legro on December 22, 2011, 01:58:08 AM
I've added some problems today to the bugtracker, and one of them was the holiday thing. I hope it is solved, as we have several nobles with units unpaid since 11 days ago.

I also ask all nobles of Barca to report all problems to the bugtracker, let's see if we restore normality. I agree that since the new estate system was established in Dwilights several problems have appeared.

Better to post them in this thread as we requested. They are much more likely to get priority fixes here then if they are posted to the bug tracker.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Rogi on January 07, 2012, 02:58:30 PM
Since long ago, in the link of Realms and Regions, the region of Thysan appears without a lord, but it actually has one since a lot of time. If you click on the region of Thysan and see the region details you notice that there is a lord, but not in the realms and regions page.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Gustav Kuriga on January 07, 2012, 09:00:17 PM
Once again, there is a thread for this in Development, post it there.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Bael on June 28, 2012, 10:01:42 PM
Ah, it looks like Aurvandil is invading Barca. Or doing something stupid to try provoke war. I honestly don't know why anyone was left in the realm. (Did I mention that some more Saxons went there recently?)
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Geronus on June 28, 2012, 10:06:20 PM
Ah, it looks like Aurvandil is invading Barca. Or doing something stupid to try provoke war. I honestly don't know why anyone was left in the realm. (Did I mention that some more Saxons went there recently?)

Sucks to be Barca, then.

Should be interesting to see what, if anything, Terran and D'Hara decide to do about it. In theory they would be bound by their alliance to help if I understand its terms correctly, but part of me wonders whether they've got the nerve to even try taking on the machine running out of Candiels.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Arrakis on June 28, 2012, 10:19:30 PM
Saw the report from Rettlewood. It doesn't appear Barca stands any chance of defense. But then again, I could be wrong.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Chenier on June 28, 2012, 11:51:58 PM
Saw the report from Rettlewood. It doesn't appear Barca stands any chance of defense. But then again, I could be wrong.

I would like to know what's defending Rettleville... I have only seen the scout report of Rettlewood.

Does anyone know how much CS/gold can generally be expected in militia dumps?
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Vellos on June 29, 2012, 03:58:14 AM
Oh, we'll support Barca for sure.

Moot realms can't opt out of defending each other from naked aggression. The Kabrinskia war was tricky because Terran declared it. This isn't tricky. Terran would have supported Barca attacking Aurvandil months ago; we'll certainly support defending them now.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Indirik on June 29, 2012, 04:08:33 AM
I wish you the best of luck. Really. Buti have a feeling we're going to be saying goodbye to Barca, unless a diplomatic solution can be found. The question then is whether or not that makes the Veinsormoot completely irrelevant.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Geronus on June 29, 2012, 04:15:46 AM
I wish you the best of luck. Really. Buti have a feeling we're going to be saying goodbye to Barca, unless a diplomatic solution can be found. The question then is whether or not that makes the Veinsormoot completely irrelevant.

+1
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on June 29, 2012, 04:48:36 AM
I wish you the best of luck. Really. Buti have a feeling we're going to be saying goodbye to Barca, unless a diplomatic solution can be found. The question then is whether or not that makes the Veinsormoot completely irrelevant.

+2
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Vellos on June 29, 2012, 04:49:34 AM
I wish you the best of luck. Really. Buti have a feeling we're going to be saying goodbye to Barca, unless a diplomatic solution can be found. The question then is whether or not that makes the Veinsormoot completely irrelevant.

+3

We'll be hoping for a miracle.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Perth on June 29, 2012, 05:59:29 AM
*shudders*

I would rather fight the Zuma than Aurvandil.

The sucky part is that they seem pretty set on wiping the 'Moot out as much as they can and escalating the war as much as possible.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Velax on June 29, 2012, 06:37:56 AM
You had a bunch of clanners on your doorstep and took no precautions for when they inevitably attacked you? Even after some of their members betrayed Barca and took their regions to Aurvandil?
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Marlboro on June 29, 2012, 07:46:26 AM
I would rather fight the Zuma than Aurvandil.

Since you brought them up, recall a certain someone with connections to the Zuma will soon be at Terran's door... The question is whether or not you want to make a deal with the devil.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Geronus on June 29, 2012, 02:10:07 PM
Since you brought them up, recall a certain someone with connections to the Zuma will soon be at Terran's door... The question is whether or not you want to make a deal with the devil.

I don't think it would be that easy to get the Zuma to do your dirty work.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Chenier on June 29, 2012, 02:12:58 PM
Aurvandil's might, fully mobilized and ready, is lesser than the 'moot's might, unprepared and unmobilized.

I don't expect to require a miracle at all, though indeed Barca's gonna bleed some.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Geronus on June 29, 2012, 02:18:15 PM
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on June 29, 2012, 04:59:26 PM
They will fight for a few days and then their senates will start crying about war fatigue. They will end up signing a convoluted peace treaty that is so binding it leaves only enough leeway to barely scratch ones own butt. But there will be peace! Oh glorius peace!
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Darksun on June 29, 2012, 05:08:22 PM
Aurvandil is exactly what Dwilight needs...

Just make sure they stay in the south.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Bael on June 29, 2012, 05:23:19 PM
Aurvandil is exactly what Beluaterra needs...

Just make sure they stay in the south.

Fixed it for you :)
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Perth on June 29, 2012, 05:26:44 PM
They will fight for a few days and then their senates will start crying about war fatigue. They will end up signing a convoluted peace treaty that is so binding it leaves only enough leeway to barely scratch ones own butt. But there will be peace! Oh glorius peace!

Yes, because we have such a history of that...
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on June 29, 2012, 05:43:05 PM
Nt
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Foundation on June 29, 2012, 05:46:59 PM
Kale is good for you.

I salute Barca's courage and unswerving flame letters in the face of the Aurvandilian army. :)
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on June 29, 2012, 05:55:10 PM
Nt
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: NoblesseChevaleresque on June 29, 2012, 06:18:47 PM
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Geronus on June 29, 2012, 07:34:46 PM
That would imply Aurvandil has brought it's full might to bear, and not instead, left a considerable chunk at home. We don't need to send our full mobile army to deal with Barca, that would just be needlessly expensive in terms of equipment repair.

The scary part:

There's a good chance that he's not bluffing. There's 29 nobles in Rettlewood. That leaves 25 more unaccounted for. Assuming a similar CS to noble ratio, there could be another 25k CS or so out there.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: DamnTaffer on June 29, 2012, 08:03:46 PM
The scary part:

There's a good chance that he's not bluffing. There's 29 nobles in Rettlewood. That leaves 25 more unaccounted for. Assuming a similar CS to noble ratio, there could be another 25k CS or so out there.

Gotta love the 90/90 Inf RC that seems eternally fully stocked eh ;)
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Indirik on June 29, 2012, 08:11:26 PM
Those are always very nice.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: NoblesseChevaleresque on June 29, 2012, 08:13:08 PM
The scary part:

There's a good chance that he's not bluffing. There's 29 nobles in Rettlewood. That leaves 25 more unaccounted for. Assuming a similar CS to noble ratio, there could be another 25k CS or so out there.

39 nobles, and the really scary part is we still aren't even close to full potential, we had to make sure every noble had enough gold to stay in the field for two-three weeks, as well as keeping gold behind for our other nobles and lords clearing out the rogues in the east, and not all of our units are up to the standards set due to the massive winter time travels to the east and the constant monster outbreaks.

Gotta love the 90/90 Inf RC that seems eternally fully stocked eh ;)

That and the 95/70 range four S.F.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Geronus on June 29, 2012, 08:27:27 PM
39 nobles, and the really scary part is we still aren't even close to full potential, we had to make sure every noble had enough gold to stay in the field for two-three weeks, as well as keeping gold behind for our other nobles and lords clearing out the rogues in the east, and not all of our units are up to the standards set due to the massive winter time travels to the east and the constant monster outbreaks.

The scout report I saw was 29 nobles, but it's at least one turn old. And I don't know about the units not being up to standard. You were averaging close to 1k CS per unit on the scout report I saw  :P
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: NoblesseChevaleresque on June 29, 2012, 08:31:21 PM
The scout report I saw was 29 nobles, but it's at least one turn old. And I don't know about the units not being up to standard. You were averaging close to 1k CS per unit on the scout report I saw  :P

Well it's 39 now, and the standard is basically 70-80 men of the 90/90 Infantry, obviously much, much higher archers, and about half that for Special Forces. For any other types of Infantry, like the 70/90 the standard is also higher. But with so much fighting in the east we couldn't bring everyone up to the strength in time.

1kcs per unit is about right for Aurvandil, we managed a similar feat when we fought Madina through a lot of training and communal funding.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Foundation on June 29, 2012, 08:48:19 PM
Full 90/90 is the best.  You just walk into the capital, and come out the next turn with a 1k CS unit.  Constant draft ftw. :)
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: NoblesseChevaleresque on June 29, 2012, 08:51:55 PM
Full 90/90 is the best.  You just walk into the capital, and come out the next turn with a 1k CS unit.  Constant draft ftw. :)

Aurvandil prides itself on highly efficient drafting, helps that all of our best Infantry RC's are in the capital, or in Tower Fatmilak.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Chenier on June 29, 2012, 10:10:36 PM
Raw CS numbers are only part of what's going to make this hard. Sure, maybe you can put together more CS, but can you make it turn on a dime?

True. But then you have to consider that the 'moot was probably the least anti-Aurvandil bloc on the continent...
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Indirik on June 29, 2012, 10:29:30 PM
Not anymore, eh?
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: NoblesseChevaleresque on June 29, 2012, 11:06:54 PM
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Penchant on June 29, 2012, 11:13:46 PM
Aurvandil tried to treat each realm in the Veinsormoot as individual and independent
Which is a bit of a mistake because they are not not exactly individual or independent from each other. If you attack one of the moot, all must help and all will help.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Chenier on June 29, 2012, 11:15:55 PM
Aurvandil tried to treat each realm in the Veinsormoot as individual and independent, but was repeatedly confronted by this gang mentality, whether or not the 'moot was the least anti Aurvandilan bloc as a group isn't that important, it's about individual relations, to Aurvandil anyway.

Yea, well, Aurvandil should really try to accept that not everyone works like them. Individuals come and go, whereas institutions remain. That is the gamble of the Maroccidens for lasting peace and stability.

Which is why you are wrong. It's far from being just about individual relations. Even you recognize that there is a strong gang mentality. Choosing to ignore it is foolish. The 'moot is probably the most united bloc on the continent.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: NoblesseChevaleresque on June 29, 2012, 11:46:36 PM
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Perth on June 30, 2012, 02:30:41 AM
How is Aurvandil any fun to play in if it's all just "hive mind" this and "hive mind" that?
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: NoblesseChevaleresque on June 30, 2012, 02:48:37 AM
How is Aurvandil any fun to play in if it's all just "hive mind" this and "hive mind" that?

Hive mind what?
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on June 30, 2012, 02:52:33 AM
How is Aurvandil any fun to play in if it's all just "hive mind" this and "hive mind" that?

Oh god coming from the "Attack one attack us all" camp... Pleaee just use brain
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Allomere on June 30, 2012, 02:57:57 AM
Hive mind?

Allomere just slew one of his marshals in public. Various members of the government have had trouble with several lords and a duke, for differing reasons. Not to mention the contesting on who gets to be Judge and Banker and where food can be sold. I don't really feel obliged to comment further on inner realm happenings but the reputation so many seem to think we have is quite flattering. Life would be a lot easier if we were all jolly and cohesive IC. The difference is we all seem to otherwise enjoy the internal dynamics with little animosity.

There's probably also a bit of fortress mentality to it too.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: DamnTaffer on June 30, 2012, 02:58:29 AM
How is Aurvandil any fun to play in if it's all just "hive mind" this and "hive mind" that?

Well the efficiency is nice, but the multipul personality disorder is a bitch.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Feylonis on June 30, 2012, 07:19:32 AM
Buh buh. Imagine Russia declaring war against America and not expecting the NATO to jump in.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Perth on July 02, 2012, 02:22:49 AM
Oh god coming from the "Attack one attack us all" camp... Pleaee just use brain

Yeah... what a crazy concept... "alliance"... ooh and ahh at our diplomatic innovation.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Dante Silverfire on July 02, 2012, 04:04:38 AM
Buh buh. Imagine Russia declaring war against America and not expecting the NATO to jump in.

Declare war? That's funny.

NATO wouldn't join in defense of a war against America. You know why? Russia's war would consist of pressing a few red buttons and the entire thing would be over in a matter of minutes. Both sides would lose and there wouldn't be a NATO left.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: DoctorHarte on July 02, 2012, 04:10:18 AM
Yeah... what a crazy concept... "alliance"... ooh and ahh at our diplomatic innovation.

So that has to stop us from being creative and trying to change things? So you have an alliance, that doesn't stop Aurvandil from playing along to the same game.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Dante Silverfire on July 02, 2012, 04:14:04 AM
So that has to stop us from being creative and trying to change things? So you have an alliance, that doesn't stop Aurvandil from playing along to the same game.

Translation: We call your alliances and raze you. Literally, we raze you and your cities to the ground.

Madina had "alliances". Sure worked out well for them.

Here's the kicker I'm waiting for: The Zuma decide to randomly march an army to Chesney while Terran is helping Barca. (I told them they had good cookies there)

We'll see if it works.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Perth on July 02, 2012, 07:30:02 AM
So that has to stop us from being creative and trying to change things? So you have an alliance, that doesn't stop Aurvandil from playing along to the same game.

What? I wasn't responding to you or Aurvandil. I was responding to Glaumring being dumb.


Here's the kicker I'm waiting for: The Zuma decide to randomly march an army to Chesney while Terran is helping Barca. (I told them they had good cookies there)

We'll see if it works.


You've obviously learned nothing about the Zuma. The Zuma don't do exciting things like march on cities. More likely, since a big conflict is about to happen, they will march south to somewhere inbetween Barca and Aurvandil and be completely ambiguous about their intentions, and then everyone will sit around and watch.

Although, these fellows in Aurvandil might just be the only ones on Dwilight crazy enough to be like "WTF Zuma? GTFO of our way" and smash into them... and maybe win, too.

Title: Re: Barca
Post by: DamnTaffer on July 04, 2012, 01:47:30 AM
Although, these fellows in Aurvandil might just be the only ones on Dwilight crazy enough to be like "WTF Zuma? GTFO of our way" and smash into them... and maybe win, too.

You've mistaken crazy for stupid. Yes, we can raise 50k cs consistantly doesn't mean we'd just randomly start another war while already being at war with barca and in theory the rest of the moot. Also if we considered what was said here.. which unlike most we don't, starting a huge war with other players openly admitting OOC that they want to attack us for OOC would be idiotic.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Perth on July 04, 2012, 01:50:11 AM
You've mistaken crazy for stupid. Yes, we can raise 50k cs consistantly doesn't mean we'd just randomly start another war while already being at war with barca and in theory the rest of the moot. Also if we considered what was said here.. which unlike most we don't, starting a huge war with other players openly admitting OOC that they want to attack us for OOC would be idiotic.

All I was saying is that if it came down to it, you all would probably be the only ones with the balls big enough to go mono y mono with the Zuma.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: DamnTaffer on July 04, 2012, 01:51:41 AM
All I was saying is that if it came down to it, you all would probably be the only ones with the balls big enough to go mono y mono with the Zuma.

Definately.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: NoblesseChevaleresque on July 04, 2012, 02:01:16 AM
All I was saying is that if it came down to it, you all would probably be the only ones with the balls big enough to go mono y mono with the Zuma.

We considered it, to run a "royal hunt" for the Zuma wildlife.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Dante Silverfire on July 04, 2012, 02:10:20 AM
All I was saying is that if it came down to it, you all would probably be the only ones with the balls big enough to go mono y mono with the Zuma.

I'll do it!

They're just the only ones likely to win.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: DamnTaffer on July 04, 2012, 03:42:19 AM
I'll do it!

They're just the only ones likely to win.

Come join us, we need nobles >.>
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Penchant on July 04, 2012, 03:50:11 AM
Come join us, we need nobles >.>
You don't need nobles, when Summerdale had more regions then nobles they needed nobles but when you have 56 nobles when everyother realm except Morek is in the 30's or under you don't need noble even with a secession. So to correct you, you want more nobles.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: DamnTaffer on July 04, 2012, 03:54:47 AM
You don't need nobles, when Summerdale had more regions then nobles they needed nobles but when you have 56 nobles when everyother realm except Morek is in the 30's or under you don't need noble even with a secession. So to correct you, you want more nobles.

I don't have enough nobles to make my regions efficient, nor to even take the remaining madina lands, that efficency is crippling the dutchy and it is massively into food deficit. Litterally the only reason we arn't starving is because Aurvandil is bankrolling our food
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Penchant on July 04, 2012, 04:13:23 AM
I don't have enough nobles to make my regions efficient
Do you mean estate effiency or no one to do civil work to repair production?
nor to even take the remaining madina lands,
You are in a war so it kinda should have been planned better.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: JPierreD on July 04, 2012, 04:13:57 AM
I don't have enough nobles to make my regions efficient, nor to even take the remaining madina lands, that efficency is crippling the dutchy and it is massively into food deficit. Litterally the only reason we arn't starving is because Aurvandil is bankrolling our food

Knights make no difference in food production. Only in tax collection efficiency.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Marlboro on July 04, 2012, 04:58:57 AM
Nooo, my armiez. *Clings fast to the Poryatu Chargers.*
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Dante Silverfire on July 04, 2012, 05:03:51 AM
Come join us, we need nobles >.>

You can't afford me.

Nooo, my armiez. *Clings fast to the Poryatu Chargers.*

WTF is this? I'm the only one allowed to lead Poryatu Chargers. Unless you're referring to my character's unit directly.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Marlboro on July 04, 2012, 05:12:13 AM
WTF is this? I'm the only one allowed to lead Poryatu Chargers. Unless you're referring to my character's unit directly.

I'm the Vice-Marshal of the army they are in!

What I mean is, don't take them away. *Puppy-dog eyes.*
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Dante Silverfire on July 04, 2012, 05:15:20 AM
I'm the Vice-Marshal of the army they are in!

What I mean is, don't take them away. *Puppy-dog eyes.*

Ahh oops. Ya, my +15 captain makes them pretty beast. That and my shooting up to 100+ cavalry whenever I'm ready to fight.

Anyway, back on topic, Has barca died  yet?
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: egamma on July 04, 2012, 05:41:12 PM
Aurvrandil is moving to refit.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: DamnTaffer on July 04, 2012, 05:46:53 PM
Aurvrandil is moving to refit.

...Are you really posting our troop movements on the forum... Reallly...
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Penchant on July 04, 2012, 06:06:08 PM
...Are you really posting our troop movements on the forum... Reallly...
Three things, one he is stating that in reply to is Barca dead yet which is a no since you guys are refitting and two, if a D'haran knows then obviously Barca knows, and three its not like he is posting exact troop movements, plus that was just him saying it until you confirmed it.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: egamma on July 05, 2012, 02:41:10 AM
...Are you really posting our troop movements on the forum... Reallly...

http://battlemaster.org/ShowScribeNote.php?ID=201301&Hash=eaab1dcbcc065c34

Yes.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Bael on July 11, 2012, 07:33:21 PM
http://forum.battlemaster.org/index.php/topic,2781.msg63373.html#msg63373

Sounds familiar...
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Wolfang on October 25, 2013, 08:48:58 PM
I've just finished the Barcan census, for those interested, it is on the wiki here:

http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/First_Barcan_Census
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Lychaon on November 17, 2013, 08:20:22 PM
It's been quite a long time since I had to quit Battlemaster due to my senior thesis, and I'd really like to know how things are going in my beloved Republic of Barca! It's not likely that I'm coming back soon, but every now and then I wonder how things have evolved since I left.

I've just read that Aurvandil fell, did Barca regained some of the southern marches it claimed? Has the number of nobles risen? A map screenshot, please!  ;)
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Wolfang on November 17, 2013, 09:06:24 PM
I update the Barca wiki quite often, you can check for changes, we're at about 32 nobles (we were at about 14 when I  first joined). I saw the art you made and it's really good!

Aurvandil collapsed not-so-long ago, and their army was pretty much non-existent, together with fissoa we partitioned the land, on mainland marroccia, fissoa has Candiels & Candiels fields, the rest is Barcan.

Some regions were/are still rogue not so long ago, so we're still recovering which is why I haven't posted a wiki-map update yet (you can check it if you like).

Right now we are at war with Luria Nova, as they have taken over a DHaran island :)
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Lychaon on November 18, 2013, 09:46:13 AM
Thanks!  :)

It's really nice to see Barca playing an important role in Dwilight politics! And cool how it has grown in nobles and land, not sure if I left before you arrived but we were about 13 or 14 by that time, and still had to retake many of our northern regions that had deflected during Aurvandil's last invasion.

Good job with the wiki!
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Galvez on January 23, 2014, 03:14:40 PM
Seriously, this is becoming an annoyance:
Quote
Even though you wished to continue your travels, you stop in [[region]]. You find the route excellent and make very good way, reducing your travel time by 3 hours. Enemy troops were spotted here, belonging to (rogue).

I can almost never continue my travels because of rogue troops, however every time I receive this report the rogue force has already been defeated. Is it just me, or is it taking too long before defeated rogue troops disappear?

Title: Re: Barca
Post by: D`Este on January 23, 2014, 03:40:20 PM
Seriously, this is becoming an annoyance:
I can almost never continue my travels because of rogue troops, however every time I receive this report the rogue force has already been defeated. Is it just me, or is it taking too long before defeated rogue troops disappear?

Its already reported as a bug sometime ago.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Galvez on January 23, 2014, 08:23:03 PM
Great, then I do not have to ask any further and know that it will be taken care of.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: sharkattack on January 29, 2014, 01:13:26 AM
Never seen Barca so high up North. I have a feeling things might get very interesting very soon.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Galvez on February 01, 2014, 01:08:18 PM
Yes, we are on unfamiliar ground.
Title: Forum Introduction, Collaboration Request, etc.
Post by: House le Drake on February 10, 2014, 12:27:38 AM
So I've yet to really introduce myself to many of the Barcans.  Although I know I can do that in-game, I wanted to do it here too, to show that I'm also trying to be active in the forums.  I'd appreciate any advice I can get from you guys about how to move forward in the future.  :D

I was also wondering which folks here might be active on the RPing side of things, and if you'd like to collaborate on some posts sometime.  Since a lot of us are moving out to Celtiberia right now, that'd be a good pretense for some RPing.

Sincerely,

That One Chick Who Plays The Le Drakes
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Wolfang on February 11, 2014, 04:52:59 PM
Unpaused  :)
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Bael on February 11, 2014, 11:39:16 PM
Welcome, and welcome back : )
Title: Re: Forum Introduction, Collaboration Request, etc.
Post by: JeVondair on February 14, 2014, 08:59:47 PM
So I've yet to really introduce myself to many of the Barcans.  Although I know I can do that in-game, I wanted to do it here too, to show that I'm also trying to be active in the forums.  I'd appreciate any advice I can get from you guys about how to move forward in the future.  :D

I was also wondering which folks here might be active on the RPing side of things, and if you'd like to collaborate on some posts sometime.  Since a lot of us are moving out to Celtiberia right now, that'd be a good pretense for some RPing.

Sincerely,

That One Chick Who Plays The Le Drakes


Good thing J Le Drake met Rynn  ;D
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Lychaon on February 19, 2014, 10:37:35 AM
Some new art for Barca's background. This time, the emblems of the current armies: Sacred Legion of Maroccia and Wardens of Maroccia. They are based on their colour scheme icons IG.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/401/h5ff.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/b5h5ffj)
Sacred Legion of Maroccia

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/801/yoqe.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/m9yoqej)
Wardens of Maroccia

Hope you like it  :)
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: vonGenf on February 19, 2014, 10:42:59 AM
Hope you like it  :)

I sure do! These are great.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Lychaon on February 19, 2014, 11:47:33 AM
Thanks man!

Possible applications:

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/854/f33v.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/nqf33vj)

 ;D
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Wolfang on February 19, 2014, 03:28:50 PM
They're nice. The bitches love them.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Fleugs on February 19, 2014, 03:40:33 PM
Hah!  ;D
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Galvez on February 20, 2014, 01:01:38 PM
Hope you like it  :)
Yes we do, as always!
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Bjarnson on February 22, 2014, 08:55:39 AM
That bling bling is making me jelous...
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: SholaIsComing on May 21, 2014, 04:50:48 AM
bump for my fellow barcans
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Velax on May 21, 2014, 01:00:37 PM
Moderator note: Do not bump posts, please. If you don't have anything of value to add to a thread three months dead, don't add anything.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Tandaros on May 24, 2014, 07:56:12 PM
I'm kind of wondering what effect the Lurian air is having on traditional Barcan republicanism.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Wolfang on May 25, 2014, 12:19:22 AM
Republicanism is all we ever talk about bro.

*I'm more republican than you*
*No way that decision was totally unrepublican*
*I'm so republican I'm practically democratic*
*Okay let's vote about whether we should vote about it*

The trouble with Luria, is that it's full of Lurians, Barcans Fissoans, DHarans Asylonians and Niselites.
^
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6LusNuhPXc

It's actually pretty fun right now, all the trouble we are having makes for some fun happenings and stuff :)
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Galvez on May 28, 2014, 12:26:05 AM
*I'm more republican than you*
*No way that decision was totally unrepublican*
*I'm so republican I'm practically democratic*
*Okay let's vote about whether we should vote about it*

That is very accurate I must say.  ;D
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: DeVerci on May 28, 2014, 02:43:15 AM
Mirror mirror on the wall, who is the most republican of them all?
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Stabbity on May 30, 2014, 07:55:03 AM
If you chant that three times in front of a mirror at midnight when the Maddening is Bright, Jonsu comes out of the mirror and strangles you to death. True story.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Wolfsong on May 30, 2014, 08:09:13 AM
Wouldn't it be more accurate to say 'says disparaging things about you, then flees to another mirror'?
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Stabbity on May 30, 2014, 08:48:41 AM
Whats urban legendy about that? Pfft.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Chenier on September 15, 2014, 01:18:31 AM
If Barca does fail, there's always a possibility for D'Hara to re-expand west after this war and either create it anew, or at least create a duchy for it.

Marrocidentals must stick together!
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Wolfsong on September 15, 2014, 10:05:34 AM
Have you seen the monster CS chilling out in almost every single coastal region in western Dwilight? Candiels and Candiels Field had around 140,000 CS between those two regions alone.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Chenier on September 15, 2014, 02:25:43 PM
Have you seen the monster CS chilling out in almost every single coastal region in western Dwilight? Candiels and Candiels Field had around 140,000 CS between those two regions alone.

Then we work with Fissoa and Astrum. ;)

When Barca was settled, there were many hordes of 10,000 to 30,000 CS, and we had less than a tenth of the economy and infrastructure we had now.

Huge hordes? Certainly. But it is our destiny to bring civilization back to the Maroccidens.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Indirik on September 15, 2014, 06:28:21 PM
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Chenier on September 15, 2014, 09:42:29 PM
That actually sounds like fun. I was thinking that might be a good route for my next character.

The establishment of the Maroccidens was done in a context of extreme strife. Monsters were everywhere, famine was rampant, there was no infrastructure, hostile superpowers, competing realms wishing to establish themselves on the same territory... The strife really modeled the governing philosophy of Maroccidentalism, that prevailed until at least all of the west became civilized (minus the Zuma). There is no good reason for D'Hara not to focus West again once the war ends. After all, it doesn't even have any other enemies. Nor a tradition of conflict of any sort with any other realm than Luria.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on September 15, 2014, 10:35:41 PM
Aye, D'Hara will have no choice to go west once we push them into the sea.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Chenier on September 15, 2014, 11:31:30 PM
Aye, D'Hara will have no choice to go west once we push them into the sea.

No one can push us out of our lands. It's been tried again and again, by many, and it always failed.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on September 16, 2014, 04:13:07 AM
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: De-Legro on September 16, 2014, 04:14:48 AM
Aye, Just like when the D'Harans pushed out the Shadovarans. You forget that even D'Harans arent native to the tomb islands.

He doesn't since he was there. D'Hara never pushed them "out" it was a rebellion, one that very few of the "native" Shadovarans (myself included) fought against.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Chenier on September 16, 2014, 02:20:57 PM
D'Hara was created by people already living on the islands. Makes it kind of native, really. If you consider that every other realm that ever had a toe on the islands was set up by some far-away foreign entity, D'Hara is the sole realm native realm created by islanders.

D'Hara is the islands, and the islands are D'Hara.

Though curse the duchess for the name.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Stabbity on September 16, 2014, 11:51:00 PM
For the love of all that is unholy, can ONE DWILIGHT THREAD not break out into a D'hara fellatio fest?
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Ossan on September 17, 2014, 01:10:58 AM
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Chenier on September 17, 2014, 01:26:51 AM
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Indirik on September 17, 2014, 01:27:48 AM
Everyone pimps their favorite realm.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Ossan on September 17, 2014, 02:28:54 AM
"I Can't Believe Its Not Butter" is still my favourite realm.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: BarticaBoat on September 17, 2014, 05:20:17 AM
Everguard was possibly the most fun Ive had in a realm.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Wolfsong on September 17, 2014, 12:39:46 PM
I really liked Melodia, before it that OOC rebellion ruined it. Also liked Fontan a fair bit. Is it still around?
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Chenier on September 17, 2014, 12:49:30 PM
I really liked Melodia, before it that OOC rebellion ruined it. Also liked Fontan a fair bit. Is it still around?

Melodia picked a bad spot. ;)
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Indirik on September 17, 2014, 02:48:10 PM
Also liked Fontan a fair bit. Is it still around?
Died a few years ago.
Title: Re: Barca
Post by: Glaumring the Fox on September 17, 2014, 10:37:01 PM
I really liked Melodia, before it that OOC rebellion ruined it. Also liked Fontan a fair bit. Is it still around?

I started as a Melodian. It was fun to be part of a frontier realm
When Dwilight first started.