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BattleMaster => BM General Discussion => Topic started by: Draco Tanos on August 07, 2012, 11:11:50 AM
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I've been wondering, which character(s) are ACTUALLY grandfathered in as elves, and which are simply humans who hacked off parts of their ears to make them pointy? Is there any actual record?
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Is there any actual record?
The short answer is "no". I'll leave the long answer to others who may have a strong opinion about it. ;)
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I think there's a strong "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" when it comes to the whole Elves of Sirion deal...
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I think there's a strong "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" when it comes to the whole Elves of Sirion deal...
He is referring to the original ruling and asking if any characters remain that could legitimately be covered by that clause. Don't think he is trying to reopen the whole debate about the validity of the newer elf generations.
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He is referring to the original ruling and asking if any characters remain that could legitimately be covered by that clause. Don't think he is trying to reopen the whole debate about the validity of the newer elf generations.
This.
Well, at the very least when was the ruling issued and were there any specifics (had to be created/born in Sirion rather than immigrated to, etc)? Could always do the legwork on my own with that.
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This.
Well, at the very least when was the ruling issued and were there any specifics (had to be created/born in Sirion rather than immigrated to, etc)? Could always do the legwork on my own with that.
Not sure when it was issued, before 2008 I think. My understanding was it covered any family in Sirion at the time.
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I believe it was issued some time in the 2001-2002 timeframe...
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Yes it was very early in the history of the game. It's why my family's stance on the whole thing is that people are lying about their heritage.
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Someone in Sirion said people are lying about their heritage and people were pissed off...
I would avoid bringing that up in game to avoid waves of protest letters.
Oh well it isn't like it is detrimental to the game.
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Ooo a hornet's nest to kick =)
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Ooo a hornet's nest to kick =)
Indeed...
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I believe it was issued some time in the 2001-2002 timeframe...
I can't seem to find a single account in Sirion that even has characters dating back to that time... :|
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Circle Tezokian now Ecthelion. He's been there that long, almost positive (3644 days in realm). High Guard another character of that same era was in Rancagua which was the second realm to ever be utterly destroyed.
The next closest is Alexander Acies Dux Ducis who created in early 2003.
The problem with the really really old stuff is that there isn't a family history entry for it since it didn't even exist =) Look for the creation of my first characters Gregor, Lelnor, Boeth, and Norel (not the reborn Norel, but the first King of Oligarch and Perdan (pre restart).
Heck anything to do with Hasland isn't even my family history and that was my favorite time in the game.
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Records indicate Circle was created in late 2002.
In fact, the character will be 10 years old in exactly 9 days. Someone might want to let his player know; them's bragging rights, right there!
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Don't happen to have Gregor's actual creation date in the DB do we =)
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10 years in the same realm... that is really something...to be awed about.
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Don't happen to have Gregor's actual creation date in the DB do we =)
Hm. That's interesting. According to the DB, he was created on 28 Apr 2002, but his character ID is actually quite a bit higher than Circle's...not sure how that happened.
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Easy, he emigrated after Ibladesh lost the war against Ubent and Perdan. He then later moved back to Fontan. The old ID wasn't saved for him so he got a new one.
And that's def. not his creation date. Ah well.
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From what I remember you had to have your family born in Sirion to be a actual Elf. Otherwise you were considered half-elf or human, at least thats what I was told back then when "Orcs" still existed. I thought their were some exceptions if the person rped his way into being seen as a elf. I only recognize those who say they are elves as elves everyone else is umm well not elf.
Haha, remember someone attempted to create dwarves mm Lighting bolt came down on that real quick. I don't think that was EI though
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From what I remember you had to have your family born in Sirion to be a actual Elf. Otherwise you were considered half-elf or human, at least thats what I was told back then when "Orcs" still existed. I thought their were some exceptions if the person rped his way into being seen as a elf. I only recognize those who say they are elves as elves everyone else is umm well not elf.
Haha, remember someone attempted to create dwarves mm Lighting bolt came down on that real quick. I don't think that was EI though
Not quite the same rule. When BM transitioned to a Human characters only game Tom needed a way to handle the elves. Instead of just telling everyone they were human and invalidating long RP histories any character that was RP'd as a elf was allowed to remain so, so long as they remained within Sirion. The general interpretation was that this meant no new characters could be elf and they would eventually die off. From what I understand the general player base in Sirion ignores this and there are still "elves" a plenty.
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There are no hard and fast rules. Basically, we ignore them as long as they stay in Sirion. People who try to start up new inhuman races somewhere else are generally laughed about.
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Records indicate Circle was created in late 2002.
In fact, the character will be 10 years old in exactly 9 days. Someone might want to let his player know; them's bragging rights, right there!
I'm sure Aldarion (formerly Captain) Tezokian has been in Talerium for almost as long. And he's been Prime Minister there since I've been playing the game in early 2008.
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The simple way to get rid of the elves is just to destroy Sirion and RP that your realm eradicated all the elves. There problem would be solved or I guess you could unleash a plague that made all females elves infertile and thus getting rid of the elves.
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The simple way to get rid of the elves is just to destroy Sirion and RP that your realm eradicated all the elves. There problem would be solved or I guess you could unleash a plague that made all females elves infertile and thus getting rid of the elves.
Yep, I've mentioned this a couple of times. Problem is, I've never played on EC, and I don't know what character to give up.
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The simple way to get rid of the elves is just to destroy Sirion
Yeah, good luck with that. It's been tried before. Many times, by many realms. And many coalitions of realms. Sirion probably has the absolute best defensive geography in the entire game. So long as they stay internally stable, and have enough nobles to man the walls, you will never break them.
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Well actually they were going to lose had Perdan not been forced to pull out by Caligus. But 5 on 1 was a bit ridiculous hah.
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Given the lack of military ability shown by the leaders of Fontan at the time, Sirion had nothing to worry about. Fontan was a one-trick-pony: "Attack Tabost with everything! Again! And again! And again!"
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Given the lack of military ability shown by the leaders of Fontan at the time, Sirion had nothing to worry about. Fontan was a one-trick-pony: "Attack Tabost with everything! Again! And again! And again!"
They had some brilliant military minds ;)
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If Kenarth had managed to convince people in Fontan that no, what they were doing was not working, and we should coordinate with Perdan on a major strike on an actual strategically important region—like Avamar, which, IIRC, we might have had enough combined force to break—then there would have been some chance of breaking in.
It wasn't at all certain, though.
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Threatening he south while sending raids north may have worked, too. IIRC we tried it a few times, and managed to pull down one of those sets of irreplaceable walls, too. Then the mess with Caligus started, and Perdan had to pull out. After that, Fontan went back to the tried and true (and failing) strategy of trying to smash through Tabost. (It didn't help that we had a spy in Perdan deliberately sabotaging us, either.)
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Are you forgetting the fortifications on Trimbar?
That solely motte and bailey made Fontan lose more battles than the rest in the whole war against Sirions.
But back to topic please, we all know that Elves will be finished when Loren retires his character in 2025. Now i would like to know more of the background history.
Peace!
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If that motte and bailey was so bad, the why keep going back?!
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But back to topic please, we all know that Elves will be finished when Loren retires his character in 2025. Now i would like to know more of the
You mean Brian. Gregor is Ibladeshian. Serko is Fontanese.
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My personal take is being elven are a culture, not a race of pointy ears. People have an ingrained impression stereotype of what it is to be an elf. As soon as that changes there won't be an issue.
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Given the lack of military ability shown by the leaders of Fontan at the time, Sirion had nothing to worry about. Fontan was a one-trick-pony: "Attack Tabost with everything! Again! And again! And again!"
Very true. Moira had reasonable success raiding via Osslamar but the MoD were obsessed with big push after big push. I took a year out to have a baby and when I came back literally nothing had changed in Fontan's strategic thinking. The real surprise was that there was still a Fontan to come back to, because Sirion should have crushed her by then.
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Sirion had problems of their own. It wasn't until later in the war that Sirion turned things around, and really came into their own as a military powerhouse. Before then they mostly survived on geography, incompetence of their enemies, and a high noble count. When they did finally turn around and get good, they were *really* good.
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Sirion had problems of their own. It wasn't until later in the war that Sirion turned things around, and really came into their own as a military powerhouse. Before then they mostly survived on geography, incompetence of their enemies, and a high noble count. When they did finally turn around and get good, they were *really* good.
Guess what doesn't kill you makes you stronger...
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Someone said that the elves in spellmaster from where the Sirionite elves comes were just a variant human race.
I see the Sirion elves as a human variety with a spiritual awareness that stems from the forests in Sirion and that it is only in and in the proximity of these woods it is actually possible to tell an elf and an ordinary human apart.
People keep doing elf characters as the fact that it should be a grandfather rule is well hidden on the wiki and noone ever hears about it until after playing for years and have a well established elven character.
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Write all you need to say about elves in Sirion to realm description and everyone creating a character will know what they need to know.
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If that motte and bailey was so bad, the why keep going back?!
That is like asking why we in Fontan kept attacking that damn southern city over and over and over. It somehow became a matter of national pride. Every election for General would be mostly about who had the better plan to regain the city in the quickest time. Fontan's Democracy showed some of the worst symptoms of popular politics.
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Muah ha ha ha, Gunter Gellander has joined Eponllyn. From this base, he will destroy the elves!
Does the Church of Humanity have an anti-elf bias, and if not, can I talk them into one?
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Contact Jor or Benedictus and you'll get that story!
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There are still many some Elven noble families and some regions which the major part of the population are Elven. Personally i am no elf but the fact that the realm that i have dedicated most of my game time is somehow unique really puts some extra flavour.
About the war thing, i was General of Sirion in the most dire times of the war until we took Fontan city and gave it to Caligus. The hardest thing we had was defending Sermbar and the northern raids, but the rest was pretty much easy with the great geography that we have. I must say tho that we had to overcontrol the situations and sometimes my marshals just forwarded my orders mostly in dire times with 5 realms knocking on our doors.
I was the General when Kenarth ordered the attack on Parm. If it wasnt that some Fontanesse did not really trusted him, it could have resulted better, but without Sermbar under control, was kinda pointless to strike Parm.
I have an article written on the wiki about what strategy we used to cover all our fronts at the same time.
:)
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There are still many some Elven noble families and some regions which the major part of the population are Elven.
Is there a list somewhere, or one that can be created? Gaston needs a kill list.
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Is there a list somewhere, or one that can be created? Gaston needs a kill list.
I'd tried some time ago to create a guild or something only with elven nobles and those humans who served Sirion enough to be considered "elven friends". Got no reply...
Rainerudhiel, Alexander, Ecthelion, Erik Eyolf, those are elfs for sure.
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I'd tried some time ago to create a guild or something only with elven nobles and those humans who served Sirion enough to be considered "elven friends". Got no reply...
Rainerudhiel, Alexander, Ecthelion, Erik Eyolf, those are elfs for sure.
2007 is when Erik Eyolf was created. He is NOT an elf. Just yet another human who mutilates his ears.
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That is a good theory that your char might have about Erik's pointy ears.
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Like what Tom said, as long as those 'elves' stay in Sirion, they are what they believe they are.
You won't see Zakilevo calling himself an elf ever since he left Sirion.
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So now Zakilevo admits to being a mutant.
Burn the heretic! Kill the mutant! Purge the unclean!
>.>
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So now Zakilevo admits to being a mutant.
Burn the heretic! Kill the mutant! Purge the unclean!
>.>
His magical fairy dust ran out. Now he is a human :o
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2007 is when Erik Eyolf was created. He is NOT an elf. Just yet another human who mutilates his ears.
But has he continually maintained a character in Sirion for 10 years?
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So now Zakilevo admits to being a mutant.
Burn the heretic! Kill the mutant! Purge the unclean!
>.>
*pulls in with a completely out of place Hellhound tank* While we're burning people and making Warhammer 40k references...
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But has he continually maintained a character in Sirion for 10 years?
According to his family page ( http://battlemaster.org/UserDetails.php?ID=17115&HistoryLevel=3 )? Nope! 2006. He's not one of the recognized legacy elves.
Just another human with delusions.
And Gustav? Please give me refrences to where burning people for religious reasons is "out of place" in a european medieval setting.
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According to his family page ( http://battlemaster.org/UserDetails.php?ID=17115&HistoryLevel=3 )? Nope! 2006. He's not one of the recognized legacy elves.
Just another human with delusions.
And Gustav? Please give me refrences to where burning people for religious reasons is "out of place" in a european medieval setting.
The Hellhound tank is what is out of place, not the burning...
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Maybe someday I'll create a grandson of Nerol or Lelnor who were original Orcs in Oligarch. Have them rain righteous fury down upon Sirion and Nivemus.
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The Hellhound tank is what is out of place, not the burning...
*pets the fennec*
And that depends on your belief in Future tech BattleMaster. :P
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Ecthelion--confirmed elf.
Alexander, Dimarus--2003, is that too late?
Rainerudhiel, don't think so.
Man, there really aren't many left.
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*pets the fennec*
And that depends on your belief in Future tech BattleMaster. :P
*murrs*
I believe in that... <.<
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Ecthelion--confirmed elf.
Alexander, Dimarus--2003, is that too late?
Rainerudhiel, don't think so.
Man, there really aren't many left.
Nope, but plenty who claim to be.
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IMO, it doesn't really matter. If they keep it to themselves behind their borders, it's not really hurting me any.
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IMO, it doesn't really matter. If they keep it to themselves behind their borders, it's not really hurting me any.
That is what Tom said and I agree. But if they leave to join other realms, it is a different matter.
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So if they start telling people outside the realm that they're elves, they automagically become human when they leave? That'd sure make any RPs between Sirion and other realms look absolutely stupid. :)
I'll just ICly chalk it up to lunacy.
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So if they start telling people outside the realm that they're elves, they automagically become human when they leave? That'd sure make any RPs between Sirion and other realms look absolutely stupid. :)
I'll just ICly chalk it up to lunacy.
Of course its Lunacy. Lets look at it this way, the stereotypical fantasy elf is part of a empire that is past its prime. They spend their days remembering the glorious golden age of their empire, with little or no chance to ever reach such heights again while they wait for the pitiful remnants of their culture to finally perish completely. Its complete Lunacy to want to buy into that.
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Correct me if I am wrong.
I seem to remember reading Tom comment on Elves. If Sirion ever get destroyed, there will be no more Elf realm created.
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Correct me if I am wrong.
I seem to remember reading Tom comment on Elves. If Sirion ever get destroyed, there will be no more Elf realm created.
Yeah. If you want elves gone, kill Sirion. Simple and easy.
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Yeah. If you want elves gone, kill Sirion. Simple and easy.
That's my plan!
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That's my plan!
Good luck with that... Sirion is a monster.
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Good luck with that... Sirion is a monster.
I have never fought a war that I haven't lost!
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I have never fought a war that I haven't lost!
:o
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I have never fought a war that I haven't lost!
Haha I laughed at that one.
I'm not actually shocked that that few amount of elves exist. That was 10 years ago O_O time really does fly. Hmm I'm sure possible their are a few elves hiding outside Sirion just that they are hidden so deeply in the population that they are unseen or not heard of. Maybe waiting for a day to strike down their former nation and reclaim it as there own. It at least would be a great RP.
The exact make-up of a elf was never clear and I don't think all of Sirion ever from what I know grasped the concept. I just thought they were of a different ethnic group, that had pointier ears and wore earrings of gold. Paler skin than ours because they were always hidden from the sun under the trees of the Forest of Sirion. I for one never thought the were a different race of humans. Just mm different because of the area that they were in. Just like many of my chars have long since thought tribes men are where Nivemus (OR) are and the Volcano people have tanner skin than some of us on the island.
Orcs still linger in Westmoor *Looks around a bit* I thought? They mutated their ears yup, weird mutated ear people who look a bit greenish, perhaps from rolling around in the grass too much.
Fontan, well I always looked at Fontan as if we were the like the Greeks... never getting along, arguing, and babbling over everything.
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If there were any orcs left, they were long since put to the sword. Aberrations!
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That truly be a shame... cause the Troll under the bridge between Bescaon and Troyes would be very upset and I think he might rampage through out the Westmoor. Isn't a troll under every bridge?
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So THAT'S what the Fontanese were!