BattleMaster Community
BattleMaster => Locals => Dwilight => Topic started by: Glaumring the Fox on September 15, 2012, 05:29:56 PM
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Is it possible to do a history of Dwilight showing the spread of religions?
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This data has never been saved. It's not impossible that we would start saving it at some point; however, there's no way to go back in time.
Furthermore, bear in mind that religion spread is something that's not public—you have to be in the religion (and a priest of it) to be able to see it. In general, we do not make publicly available information that you cannot get IC without membership in a specific group.
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Yes, good point but it would still be so cool to see the rise and fall of some many faiths.
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As a player, I agree. Seeing how religions grew and spread, gained and lost temples, etc., would be pretty neat. But I can totally agree with why it should not be done.
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I don't see why it shouldn't be done. Just don't include the last month of data and you'll be fine, since anything outside of a month is mostly obsolete and unreliable.
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I don't see why it shouldn't be done. Just don't include the last month of data and you'll be fine, since anything outside of a month is mostly obsolete and unreliable.
Not if it lets you know that the religion you've been trying to destroy for months has had a hidden temple halfway across the continent.
The other problem is, how do you make the map? Do you make a separate map for every religion? Religions aren't like realms, where each region is owned by one and only one. Any given region could potentially have followers from every single religion on a continent, in varying proportions. How do you represent that?
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Religion spread, and the building of temples, mostly does not change all that fast. A month old religion spread is actually pretty accurate for most religions. And for a religion involved in an active conflict, even month old data is way too current. I wouldn't want anyone to see a 6 month old religion spread. Obscurity and secrecy is way too important.
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The other problem is, how do you make the map? Do you make a separate map for every religion? Religions aren't like realms, where each region is owned by one and only one. Any given region could potentially have followers from every single religion on a continent, in varying proportions. How do you represent that?
Make a color map. Each religion is represented by a pure (high excitation purity) color. It's very clear when you have three religions and you only have primary colors; it can be quite clear up to seven religions where you pick the rainbow colors. Of course, at 28 religions it's not clear at all, but you could argue outsider's don't make much of a difference anyway.
The regions where many religions are present are represented by a lower-saturation mix. Pagan regions are black. Regions where all religions are present are white.
But, this only mean that it could be done, not that it should be done....
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A simple pie chart of the Total Peasant Population of a given island divided into the percentage owned by each Religion would be really cool. It wouldn't divulge any valuable information, per se. No locations or anything. But would give you an idea, over time, of how each religion waxed and waned relative to the others. Even put a time delay on it if you want.
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Not if it lets you know that the religion you've been trying to destroy for months has had a hidden temple halfway across the continent.
The other problem is, how do you make the map? Do you make a separate map for every religion? Religions aren't like realms, where each region is owned by one and only one. Any given region could potentially have followers from every single religion on a continent, in varying proportions. How do you represent that?
When someone joined The Blood Cult with the sole purpose of getting a temple list in order to target their attacks, you guys were perfectly fine with this and kept saying how religion isn't a secret and is public by nature.
I don't see why it wasn't true with that griefer but would apply for archival reasons.
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When someone joined The Blood Cult with the sole purpose of getting a temple list in order to target their attacks, you guys were perfectly fine with this and kept saying how religion isn't a secret and is public by nature.
I don't see why it wasn't true with that griefer but would apply for archival reasons.
Because he was an identifiable culprit. There is still quite a difference between "not secret" and "public".
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Having thought about it a piechart or graph would best represent the religions flux.
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A simple pie chart of the Total Peasant Population of a given island divided into the percentage owned by each Religion would be really cool. It wouldn't divulge any valuable information, per se. No locations or anything. But would give you an idea, over time, of how each religion waxed and waned relative to the others. Even put a time delay on it if you want.
% of population in each religion on a 1-month time delay.
Is there any problem with this?
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When someone joined The Blood Cult with the sole purpose of getting a temple list in order to target their attacks, you guys were perfectly fine with this and kept saying how religion isn't a secret and is public by nature.
I don't see why it wasn't true with that griefer but would apply for archival reasons.
technically.. temple location is not much of a secret. all you need is a noble friend in every realm looking up all their regions. (obviously you have to visit rogue regions)
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% of population in each religion on a 1-month time delay.
Is there any problem with this?
Yes. It doesn't mean a thing. It will drive people towards increasing numbers. A religion with 90%+ control in one corner of the map is more powerful than one with 10% across the board. But the total numbers could be the same.
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Because he was an identifiable culprit. There is still quite a difference between "not secret" and "public".
I fail to see what it changes. He just needs to join up for 1 second to get access to the list and note it down. Then the damage is done. It's not as if I could ban the members of certain realms to join the faith to begin with, knowing who did it doesn't bring me anything. It's obviously someone from a realm waging a crusade against the faith, so he's immune to any kind of reprisal.
No better than had people been able to publicly see this data though some new feature. Indeed, at least this way it wouldn't feel like a blatant violation of fair play.
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I fail to see what it changes. He just needs to join up for 1 second to get access to the list and note it down. Then the damage is done. It's not as if I could ban the members of certain realms to join the faith to begin with, knowing who did it doesn't bring me anything. It's obviously someone from a realm waging a crusade against the faith, so he's immune to any kind of reprisal.
No better than had people been able to publicly see this data though some new feature. Indeed, at least this way it wouldn't feel like a blatant violation of fair play.
Joining and then instantly leaving is obviously an abuse of game mechanics. Though I agree that lesser members of the faith should not be permitted to see a list of all followers and temples without the consent of the elders
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I fail to see what it changes. He just needs to join up for 1 second to get access to the list and note it down. Then the damage is done. It's not as if I could ban the members of certain realms to join the faith to begin with, knowing who did it doesn't bring me anything. It's obviously someone from a realm waging a crusade against the faith, so he's immune to any kind of reprisal.
No better than had people been able to publicly see this data though some new feature. Indeed, at least this way it wouldn't feel like a blatant violation of fair play.
Are you arguing just for the sake of it? You sometimes have that weakness, you know?
There is still a difference. First, you have to travel to a temple. Second, messages are generated when you join and leave. You can't do it without anyone noticing.
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Are you arguing just for the sake of it? You sometimes have that weakness, you know?
There is still a difference. First, you have to travel to a temple. Second, messages are generated when you join and leave. You can't do it without anyone noticing.
I'm saying that traveling to a temple is easy, and that being noticed doesn't give the infiltrated religion any advantage or compensation.
Any !@#$%^& can easily find any religion's spread. That he maybe get noticed (really, in this case, the guy blatantly insulted the other faithful when he did..., otherwise he could easily pretend to be a legitimate member) is really of no consolation. I've never done so because I personally find it to be of extremely poor taste and to be contrary of fair play, but there are a few things like this that !@#$%^&s can easily do to screw with religions.
If religion data became truly public, at least it'd be coherent with the whole "religion is no secret" rhetoric I was given and it would put !@#$%^&s and fair players on the same level strategically.
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I'm saying that traveling to a temple is easy, and that being noticed doesn't give the infiltrated religion any advantage or compensation.
True for one religion. Trying to piece together a map of all the major religions on the island will take either a lot of time (by which the first data is already outdated) or massive teamwork. It requires doing something in-game, either abandoning other things you could do instead, or recruiting more people to help you out.
In other words: It offers gameplay instead of a button to click.
If religion data became truly public, at least it'd be coherent with the whole "religion is no secret" rhetoric I was given and it would put !@#$%^&s and fair players on the same level strategically.
Sorry, but you still don't get it. Religions aren't secret societies, but that doesn't mean everything about them is for public display. If in your thinking there are only two kinds of information: Secret and public, then you are missing a lot of the nuances of both real life and BattleMaster.