BattleMaster Community
BattleMaster => Development => Topic started by: Tom on October 09, 2012, 03:50:40 PM
-
Please post your impressions and feedback regarding sea travel here.
Please do not use this topic for speculations, discussions, complaints or anything else but feedback. If you dislike some aspect of sea travel, that is fine and I want to know about it, but keep it to what you dislike why - you know, constructive feedback. And resist the temptation to correct or comment others feedback - every feedback is valuable to me.
I need this feedback in order to tune, adjust, balance and improve this new feature which is still highly experimental. So please, do post everything you think about it, both positive and negative.
-
Just looking at embarking, I like that you are warned if you are low on provisions, that is most helpful.
I was surprised at the expense, but thinking about it makes sense. I have 46 men and it costs 28 gold to embark, in a region with a harbour. That means 3 days pay, roughly. Embarking in a region without a harbour is ludicrously expensive, but again this is expected.
Overall, the interface is clear, I like it.
-
This is some sort of running commentary on my 1st sea journey... can't really say much until the whole trip is done.
09/10/12 sunset, winter.
dwi, Jorradith (for a foreign trader noble with no men) embarking to Zenith Coast
A lone noble with 1 scout (don't think scouts are counted....) costs 9 gold and 2 hours to embark
and you get this screen...
You are now embarking ships into the Zenith Coast.
The ships will sail at sunset.
It will take about 4 hours until you reach the open sea. (i guess if you are low on hours, you'll be "stuck" on that screen for another turn... much like land travelling)
clicking on action in left tab says "you are not in a proper location".... i think it's because the left menu isn't immediately refreshed to show the new left tab that you get whilst sailing.. not certain. (ie.. play-action2.php instead of sea_action.php)...
interestingly sea_travel.php has the sea region names (as seen in dynamic map with layer ticked) but the normal embarking screen doesn't. no doubt it's todo. but i still prefer if the sea region names are baked into the basic map, so you can maybe shift them around so they are not centred into the sea region. the sea boundaries could be hard to see? horses for courses no doubt. there's an advantage with the current setup... the font size of the sea region stays the same in the various zoom.. so you could see the names of the sea regions quite clearly and get the general gist of where they are.
ah yes. no command menu. which is a bit of a shame. maybe could just disable the actionable stuff there but leave the info bits? (eg show food stock)
-----------------
10/10/12 sunrise
A Day at Sea (43 minutes ago)
personal message
You have reached the open sea of Zenith Coast.
options
sail to:
Dancing Tides (233 miles, ca. 20 hours)
Northern Passage (396 miles, ca. 33 hours)
"Remember that these are ship travel times, independent of your personal hours." <--- um... eh? ... no big round help link yet. right.. a look at the wiki explains it.. 12 hours' sailing a turn. probably easier to explain the 12 hours bit on that page directly. in that sentence even.
how come channel of gelene isn't an option? going to sail to northern passage to see if i can get the option to the channel.
Zenith Coast
You are currently sailing towards Northern Passage.
You will reach your destination in about 26 hours.
... eh? why did it change from 33 to 26?!
land at
Ienith (Iashalur, 70 miles, ca. 6 hours)
Jorradith (Iashalur, 25 miles, ca. 3 hours) <--- where he came from
Zereth (Astrum, 84 miles, ca. 7 hours)
Ygg d'Razhuul (Astrum, 138 miles, ca. 12 hours)
Yggdramir (Astrum, 197 miles, ca. 17 hours)
Valkyrja (Astrum, 199 miles, ca. 17 hours)
hmm.. so if i were to travel from Jorradith to Valkyrja by sea.. that would cost 9 gold, 1 turn for embarking and sailing to open sea. then 2-3 turns to land? (depends on how many hours you have left after embarking... i'm back up to 12 hours upon reaching open sea.. so 2 turns probably)
as opposed to land travelling hours of.. 13+7+10+3... maybe save 1-2 turns. useful.
... um.. the userdata.php says "ok" in status as opposed to "travelling" or "sailing"
-
ah yes. no command menu. which is a bit of a shame. maybe could just disable the actionable stuff there but leave the info bits? (eg show food stock)
That's intentional. While at sea, you are incommunicado. Basically, the fastest way to send messages anywhere would be - by ship.
-
Where's the option to board?
As a priest, in Paisly, I see no such option.
-
Where's the option to board?
As a priest, in Paisly, I see no such option.
I've already said multiple times that for priests and adventurers, it has not yet been implemented.
-
I've already said multiple times that for priests and adventurers, it has not yet been implemented.
I saw that later in another thread.
-
That's intentional. While at sea, you are incommunicado. Basically, the fastest way to send messages anywhere would be - by ship.
... eh.. we still receive messages and what not by magic pigeons? and can still write to the lord/steward (as the other person) for info about how much food is left?
---
ps. updating the original post every turn.. unless you prefer a separate post every turn.
-
... eh.. we still receive messages and what not by magic pigeons? and can still write to the lord/steward (as the other person) for info about how much food is left?
There are things I need to do for the game. If I cut off the messaging system, people would move to OOC messaging. It works for prison because that happens seldom and only to a few people so the player base in general doesn't bother setting up OOC channels for that. It wouldn't work for something like this.
And yes, a seperate post would be better, I only read new posts on the forum, there's too much otherwise.
-
no big round help link yet.
thanks, that was very helpful, as were some other comments. Will be added.
-
... eh? why did it change from 33 to 26?!
It shouldn't. Please everyone get me data on this, the two values should be identical.
-
10/10/12 sunset
userdata now says "at sea"... yay.
no travel messages (presumably because there's no delay or whatever.... maybe it should tell you how long left anyway... difficult to say.)
Zenith Coast
You are currently sailing towards Northern Passage.
You will reach your destination in about 14 hours.
14... so consistent with the 26 shown earlier (26-12).... I guess that's another 2 turns to go then.... don't suppose there'll be some sort of "sailing on" option if you know you won't be landing... or for that matter... turning back.. (towards the coast or whatever it is?)
-
I hope buy provisions gets added soon. That would make this sea travel a lot more interesting.
From Flying Hongrns to White Coast costs 12 gold without a unit but costs 24 with a unit (1 man).
Does having more men affect the speed of travel or no?
-
It shouldn't. Please everyone get me data on this, the two values should be identical.
It happens with land travel, too -- during winter travel times go up, they seem to go down now. It was reported as a bug a month ago: http://bugs.battlemaster.org/view.php?id=7318
-
11/10/12
nothing to say.. 2 hours till arrival at Northern Passage.
well.. the round button is there in sea_travel.php.. and it's empty atm.. but you know that already XD
-
11/10/12
nothing to say.. 2 hours till arrival at Northern Passage.
well.. the round button is there in sea_travel.php.. and it's empty atm.. but you know that already XD
what do you mean "it's emtpy" ? It should link to the wiki page.
-
as in the wiki page is empty... [[Help:Sea_Travel]] has no content yet.
-
11/10/12 sunset
A Day at Sea (2 hours, 11 minutes ago)
personal message
You have arrived in Northern Passage.
yippee..... options now are:
Zenith Coast (307 miles, ca. 26 hours) <----- eh.. so 26 was correct? and somehow zenith->northern passage had the wrong distance/time? guess i'll check again the next time i pass through that bit. (or someone look it up on the db XD)
Spring Coast (331 miles, ca. 28 hours)
eh... wtf... still can't sail to channel of gelene?!... ok... a closer look at the map shows... eh... the bridges acting as a sort of barrier.. and the channel isn't linked to the 2 sea areas up there. will that be changed?
guess i'll take the long round trip to go back to d'hara.
You have given orders to sail towards Spring Coast.
It will take about 28 hours to sail there. <--- matches this time.
landing options..
Yggdramir (Astrum, 207 miles, ca. 18 hours)
Valkyrja (Astrum, 200 miles, ca. 17 hours)
Rye (Libero Empire, 206 miles, ca. 18 hours)
Cold Spring (Libero Empire, 225 miles, ca. 19 hours)
Storms Keep (Libero Empire, 133 miles, ca. 12 hours)
Storms End (Libero Empire, 112 miles, ca. 10 hours)
Valldir (Libero Empire, 34 miles, ca. 3 hours)
Norrdir (Astrum, 91 miles, ca. 8 hours)
Hvergelmir (Astrum, 163 miles, ca. 14 hours)
still.. landing at cold spring for 19 hours sounds like a bargain. looks as if when it says i've arrived in northern passage... it literally means i arrived in the middle of it, right off the coast of Valldir... so i guess... sea travel really sucks if are going from the shore near the edge of 1 sea area to the nearer edge of the next area.. whereas it's great if you are doing far edge to far edge or middle to middle.
-
12/10/12 sunrise
16 hours to go
-
I tried it out and embarked with 50% provisions and returned the following turn. so I was at sea for one turn change and I lost 20% provisions I think that is a bit excessive and severely limiting. Is this intensional?
-
Zenith Coast (307 miles, ca. 26 hours) <----- eh.. so 26 was correct? and somehow zenith->northern passage had the wrong distance/time? guess i'll check again the next time i pass through that bit. (or someone look it up on the db XD)
It's not stored in the database, it's actually calculated from the distance which is also not stored anywhere, but calculated from the mid-points, which are ALSO not stored anywhere, but calculated from the polygon. Oh, except for land-sea-land travel where we use actual travel distance not mid-point, so going to neighbouring regions is faster than going to the one on the other side of the sea zone.
eh... wtf... still can't sail to channel of gelene?!... ok... a closer look at the map shows... eh... the bridges acting as a sort of barrier.. and the channel isn't linked to the 2 sea areas up there. will that be changed?
I don't plan to, no.
still.. landing at cold spring for 19 hours sounds like a bargain. looks as if when it says i've arrived in northern passage... it literally means i arrived in the middle of it, right off the coast of Valldir... so i guess... sea travel really sucks if are going from the shore near the edge of 1 sea area to the nearer edge of the next area.. whereas it's great if you are doing far edge to far edge or middle to middle.
See above. No, I thought of that. If you go land-sea-land, it takes the distance between the two land regions into account.
-
I tried it out and embarked with 50% provisions and returned the following turn. so I was at sea for one turn change and I lost 20% provisions I think that is a bit excessive and severely limiting. Is this intensional?
Absolutely. You have NOTHING ELSE TO EAT at sea but what you bring.
-
I tried it out and embarked with 50% provisions and returned the following turn. so I was at sea for one turn change and I lost 20% provisions I think that is a bit excessive and severely limiting. Is this intensional?
This will not be a problem when you can buy provisions. At the moment, though, it just forces you to wait before embarking.
-
Tom, the sea travel options are irreversible, which is quite a change from the other travel options, which allow you to cancel movement or turn around. I imagine that some of the phone-players might click the wrong travel link from time to time.
Also, if one is at sea and can't send messages, then maybe it doesn't make sense for one to be able to abandon estate or protest?
-
Absolutely. You have NOTHING ELSE TO EAT at sea but what you bring.
Where are the fish? D:
-
Where are the fish? D:
You've never gone "fishing", have you? Certainly not with 30 other people casting lines in the water next to you, and certainly not with a commercial net.
-
Additional feedback: it would be nice if travel was realtime, so that it counted down the hours.
-
Where are the fish? D:
Fishing far away from the shore on a moving boat is, to the best of my knowledge, quite a bit more difficult than most people think. That's why it is done with nets, but that means a) you have to have nets and b) it slows you down.
-
Additional feedback: it would be nice if travel was realtime, so that it counted down the hours.
And that would gain what? Oh yes, confusion, because everything else in BM is turn-based.
-
And that would gain what? Oh yes, confusion, because everything else in BM is turn-based.
Except Priest and Adventurer travel, which is either instant or on a countdown system.
Are priests and adventurers going to travel on a turn-based system? I imagine that the delay in priest/advy sea travel is probably due to this very problem. Just make all classes travel on an hourly system and it will be fairly simple, I think.
Load/unload could still take place on turn changes, because that's when the tide is changing (or whatever).
-
13/10/12
A Day at Sea (47 minutes ago)
personal message
You have arrived in Spring Coast.
Seeker's Coast (261 miles, ca. 22 hours)
Northern Passage (331 miles, ca. 28 hours)
Cortlandt (Libero Empire, 66 miles, ca. 6 hours)
Cold Spring (Libero Empire, 107 miles, ca. 9 hours)
Springdale (Libero Empire, 63 miles, ca. 6 hours)
...think i'll go backwards to zenith coast...
incidentally.... when you are sailing between midpoints, there's no mention of it in the bottom status bar. whilst on land, it would say "travelling" or some such (just under region name).. perhaps it should say... landing/embarking/sailing to make it consistent? (not sure it's needed really)
similarly... in userdata.. perhaps... "at sea" when stationary at midpoint, "sailing" when sailing between midpoints?
----
given sailing is independent of personal hours.. i don't think the 12 hour a turn thing is holding things up.
-
northern passage->zenith coast.
26 hours trip before and after clicking it. (ie.. normal)
-
So, it appears that the time bug only affects the first turn after embarkment? Hm, that might make sense... I'll have to check something...
-
What happens if yo have no unit with you when you embark. Should be very cheap right?
-
What happens if yo have no unit with you when you embark. Should be very cheap right?
yes
-
So, it appears that the time bug only affects the first turn after embarkment? Hm, that might make sense... I'll have to check something...
don't actually know that... it's sort of why i'm going back to zenith.. to see what it says there. i've not actually landed anywhere yet.
-
Just tried it out and was shocked starvation message. No fishing?
Good thing I bought supplies recently.
You can turn around. That's great. :'(
-
Just tried it out and was shocked starvation message. No fishing?
This has come up again, and nobody could offer a source indicating that anyone ever in the history of mankind fed an ARMY through fishing while on the open ocean. Sure you can probably through out a fishing rod and catch a couple fish. Won't make much of a difference on a sailing boat with 50 crew and a hundred soldiers loaded as cargo.
So please stop with the fishing nonsense.
-
<.<
Speaking of fishing, if you have a harbor, and in that harbor are said fishing boats *comes to the obvious conclusion* can't you just take the previous day's catch from the local fisherman?
-
<.<
Speaking of fishing, if you have a harbor, and in that harbor are said fishing boats *comes to the obvious conclusion* can't you just take the previous day's catch from the local fisherman?
Perhaps, but that's essentially stocking up on provisions before you leave land, which almost anyone can do now in most regions (on testing).
-
Took me two turns to board the ship and takes two more to move from a sea area to another. Am assuming it will take two more turns to unload.
Have a unit of 25 men with with 41% armor and around 50% weapons, infantry.
Are sailing hours dependent on what you carry with you or are they the same for everyone?
-
Took me two turns to board the ship and takes two more to move from a sea area to another. Am assuming it will take two more turns to unload.
Have a unit of 25 men with with 41% armor and around 50% weapons, infantry.
Are sailing hours dependent on what you carry with you or are they the same for everyone?
I believe hours are the same for everyone.
A "cancel movement" feature would be very, very handy. No arguing with the ship's captain after you tell him where to sail?
-
Took me two turns to board the ship and takes two more to move from a sea area to another. Am assuming it will take two more turns to unload.
Have a unit of 25 men with with 41% armor and around 50% weapons, infantry.
Are sailing hours dependent on what you carry with you or are they the same for everyone?
Hm, with 25 men it shouldn't take 2 turns. Please post the actual hours and if you want, the locations. Then I can check.
-
So there is no setting the next destination button for the sea travel?
-
So there is no setting the next destination button for the sea travel?
Maybe in the future, but right now, no.
-
A little input here. I have a courtier in Paisly (Dwi) and a warrior in Rines (Belua) with a similarly sized unit (8 men vs 10 men) The price for sailing is similar (17 vs 16 gold, it's curious that it costs more with 8 men than with 10, but I'm not going to complain for 1 gold) The interesting part, though, arrives in the times estimation: 4 hours for the 10 men in Rines, but -1 hours (yeah, not kidding) for the 8 men in Paisly. Wow, very cool to gain time embarking, I wish RL was similar ;D
-
A little input here. I have a courtier in Paisly (Dwi) and a warrior in Rines (Belua) with a similarly sized unit (8 men vs 10 men) The price for sailing is similar (17 vs 16 gold, it's curious that it costs more with 8 men than with 10, but I'm not going to complain for 1 gold) The interesting part, though, arrives in the times estimation: 4 hours for the 10 men in Rines, but -1 hours (yeah, not kidding) for the 8 men in Paisly. Wow, very cool to gain time embarking, I wish RL was similar ;D
That is, of course, a bug. I think I found and fixed it.
-
Yeah, you did it. 3 hours now, the same gold as before. The 10 men unit has two scouts and the 8 men has nothing else, so I can't still explain the difference of gold between them, but the main issue is solved.
-
arrived in zenith coast (from northern passage):
Dancing Tides (310 miles, ca. 26 hours) <- cf (233 miles, ca. 20 hours) when i embarked from Jorradith almost a week ago
Northern Passage (307 miles, ca. 26 hours) <- cf (396 miles, ca. 33 hours) when i embarked from Jorradith almost a week ago
landing time this turn, compared to last week when he embarked from Jorradith
Ienith (Iashalur, 145 miles, ca. 13 hours)... cf (70 miles, ca. 6 hours)
Jorradith (Iashalur, 100 miles, ca. 9 hours)... cf (25 miles, ca. 3 hours)
Zereth (Astrum, 85 miles, ca. 8 hours)... cf (84 miles, ca. 7 hours)
Ygg d'Razhuul (Astrum, 93 miles, ca. 8 hours)... cf (138 miles, ca. 12 hours)
Yggdramir (Astrum, 131 miles, ca. 11 hours)... cf (197 miles, ca. 17 hours)
Valkyrja (Astrum, 125 miles, ca. 11 hours)... cf (199 miles, ca. 17 hours)
Zenith Coast
You are currently sailing towards Dancing Tides.
You will reach your destination in about 26 hours...
so.. i guess.. it's your land->sea->land/sea thingy? going to sail elsewhere and then land and then embark again..
-
Yeah, you did it. 3 hours now, the same gold as before. The 10 men unit has two scouts and the 8 men has nothing else, so I can't still explain the difference of gold between them, but the main issue is solved.
Looking at the code, I can explain the difference. But I'll leave it unexplained so the community can puzzle it out.
-
I know you wanted to keep it simple, Tom, but I think this shouldn't really take too much time.
What about adding under the military advisory tab, near to where one can see how long would it take for his current unit to travel from region x to region y, the time needed to embark? At least it helps planning campaigns, which should be the goal of the military advisor.
-
You assume that is a fixed value, but it isn't.
Among other things, it heavily depends upon the region you are embarking from. Harbor or not, diplomatic relations, all play a role.
-
I am not sure if anyone has asked this yet.... What about sea battles? What will happen if two or more enemies reach the same sea zone. Will there be a battle and what would it be like?
-
I am not sure if anyone has asked this yet.... What about sea battles? What will happen if two or more enemies reach the same sea zone. Will there be a battle and what would it be like?
There is no battle. Sea zones are very large and the possibility of meeting is assumed to be zero. Ships travel as though there are no other ships. Sea battles are not planned and will not be considered for the foreseeable future.
-
There is no battle. Sea zones are very large and the possibility of meeting is assumed to be zero. Ships travel as though there are no other ships. Sea battles are not planned and will not be considered for the foreseeable future.
That is good to know.... losing an entire army at sea would just suck
-
Was short on hours when I embarked it seems. Just on turn needed to land.
-
Looking at the code, I can explain the difference. But I'll leave it unexplained so the community can puzzle it out.
Pfft, I think I get it now. 10 men and 2 scouts were in a region with a harbor, 8 men were not. Issue solved.
-
You assume that is a fixed value, but it isn't.
Among other things, it heavily depends upon the region you are embarking from. Harbor or not, diplomatic relations, all play a role.
Right. I discovered it this morning as well.
-
That is good to know.... losing an entire army at sea would just suck
How would it be worse than losing an entire army on land?
-
How would it be worse than losing an entire army on land?
"Gather your wounded off the floating pieces of debris...16 hours"
-
Not sure whether this has already been answered or not, but are there plans for priests and adventurers to be able to use sea travel in the future?
-
arrived in dancing tides
Boiling Sea (231 miles, ca. 20 hours)
Zenith Coast (310 miles, ca. 26 hours)
Miniath (Iashalur, 19 miles, ca. 2 hours)
Ninith (Iashalur, 69 miles, ca. 6 hours)
Ienith (Iashalur, 168 miles, ca. 14 hours)
Darfix (Iashalur, 54 miles, ca. 5 hours)
Under Darfix (Iashalur, 74 miles, ca. 7 hours)
.... i'm going to land... then embark again and see what happens.
----
You have given orders to set out for the coast.
It will take 5 hours until you spot the beach.
Dancing Tides
You are nearing the shores of Darfix.
You will reach the coast in about 5 hours.
-
"Gather your wounded off the floating pieces of debris...16 hours"
Leave them at sea: 0 hours.
:P
-
Leave them at sea: 0 hours.
:P
Yeah, it'd be better that you just keep your priest... Man, I'm SO GLAD to be a noble, and not a Chenier's soldier...
-
Yeah, it'd be better that you just keep your priest... Man, I'm SO GLAD to be a noble, and not a Chenier's soldier...
Build a shipyard for your fleets: 150 gold.
Recruit a top-of-the line unit: 110 gold.
Board a shipyard with your troops: 30 gold.
Leave your wounded men at sea: priceless.
For everything else, there's the Véinsørmoot.
-
Back on Dry Land (2 hours, 54 minutes ago)
personal message
Your ship has arrived at the coast of Darfix and is putting you ashore.
Dancing Tides
With your current unit and/or entourage, it would cost 9 gold and take 2 hours to procure and board ships.
..going to wait a bit 1st.
-
Travel for priests and adventurers should now work, but is untested - due to library issues, I can't test it on the dev server, so you will have to be the test subjects. :-)
-
Travel for priests and adventurers should now work, but is untested - due to library issues, I can't test it on the dev server, so you will have to be the test subjects. :-)
Leave them at sea: 0 hours.
:P
Looks like we have our first volunteer!
-
under darfix
Naval Travel
embark ships in the...
Dancing Tides
With your current unit and/or entourage, it would cost 9 gold and take 2 hours to procure and board ships.
... 9/2 seems a recurring theme.
You are now embarking ships into the Dancing Tides.
The ships will sail at sunset.
It will take about 3 hours until you reach the open sea.
---
and yup... in that screen above... play-travel.php, after clicking the boarding link, the whole left menu isn't updated... so you still get travel (play-travel) instead of sailing, etc...
.. so you get the "You are not in a proper location." warning.
niggling annoyance, not fatal.
ah.. funny thing though.. if you had an existent tab open with the land menu, you can open the command page.. and it gives the command page with the "important info" box, an error message and no bottom bar..
Fatal error: Call to a member function getRealm() on a non-object in /var/battlemaster/live/stable/command.php on line 524
obviously... not meant to be able to open the command page.
-
and yup... in that screen above... play-travel.php, after clicking the boarding link, the whole left menu isn't updated... so you still get travel (play-travel) instead of sailing, etc...
.. so you get the "You are not in a proper location." warning.
obviously... not meant to be able to open the command page.
Yeah, working on that, should work better now.
-
I saw the new option for adventurers. It would cost me 12 gold to embark, which is prohibitive for an adventurer (not impossible for an experienced one though).
Now, this is fine with me: I am on a mainland, if I want to switch to a different mainland I would need to work hard, this is expected.
However, it occured to me that you don't choose where you will start at character creation. What happens if an adventurer is created in Raviel? He is pretty much stuck on the two-region island until he can gather the necessary gold. This does not sound very fun.
-
My apologies if this was mentioned before, but it could be nice to have an option for automatically continue travel at sea similar to what is already there on land. Especially since provisions run out fast, if someone can't log in for a day or two while at sea and has no chance to preset travel, it can be annoying.
-
I saw the new option for adventurers. It would cost me 12 gold to embark, which is prohibitive for an adventurer (not impossible for an experienced one though).
Now, this is fine with me: I am on a mainland, if I want to switch to a different mainland I would need to work hard, this is expected.
However, it occured to me that you don't choose where you will start at character creation. What happens if an adventurer is created in Raviel? He is pretty much stuck on the two-region island until he can gather the necessary gold. This does not sound very fun.
Could adventurers get a "stow away" option, that takes 3 days of sea travel and drops them in another random region?
-
I just did my first test by traveling to my region of Sallowtown. This is what I got when I arrived:
Back on Dry Land (17 minutes ago)
personal message
Your ship has arrived at the coast of Sallowtown and is putting you ashore.
Attacked by Sea (17 minutes ago)
message to the lord and knights of Sallowtown
Enemy forces have been sighted at the shores of your region. Due to the weakness of the defense, they could land unopposed.
-
http://bugs.battlemaster.org/view.php?id=7463 <-- typo fixed. the other bit unclear.
atm.. when nobles from own realm land.. they trigger the message.
---
apparently, when nobles from "peace" realm land.. it triggers same message about lack of militia and all that. which is the wrong explanation, even if a message is meant to be triggered..
-----------
arriving in dancing tides after embarking from under darfix
Dancing Tides
From here, you can sail towards:
Boiling Sea (157 miles, ca. 14 hours) cf 231 miles, ca. 20 hours after just arriving from zenith coast
Zenith Coast (346 miles, ca. 29 hours) cf was 310 miles, ca. 26 hours after just arriving from zenith coast
though.. oddly.. after clicking sailing to Zenith Coast...
You have given orders to sail towards Zenith Coast.
It will take about 29 hours to sail there.
and clicking sailing from left menu..
Dancing Tides
You are currently sailing towards Zenith Coast.
You will reach your destination in about 29 hours.
so.. at least 29 is consistent.
landing options.
Miniath (Iashalur, 73 miles, ca. 7 hours)
Ninith (Iashalur, 124 miles, ca. 11 hours)
Ienith (Iashalur, 201 miles, ca. 17 hours)
Darfix (Iashalur, 27 miles, ca. 3 hours)
Under Darfix (Iashalur, 25 miles, ca. 3 hours)
-
I have noticed that once you go to sea. If you look at the army info under the information tab where it shows the location of each unit in the army .... it is blank. Will this eventually tell us which sea a unit is in or will it always be blank?
-
I have noticed that once you go to sea. If you look at the army info under the information tab where it shows the location of each unit in the army .... it is blank. Will this eventually tell us which sea a unit is in or will it always be blank?
Which file? What does the address bar say?
-
Which file? What does the address bar say?
http://www.battlemaster.org/testing/ArmyInfo.php
There is not command tab at all to look there when at sea either
-
ok, should be fixed in next update
-
ok, should be fixed in next update
Thanks Tom your awesome
-
arrived back to zenith coast
Dancing Tides (310 miles, ca. 26 hours)
Northern Passage (307 miles, ca. 26 hours)
Ienith (Iashalur, 145 miles, ca. 13 hours)
Jorradith (Iashalur, 100 miles, ca. 9 hours)
Zereth (Astrum, 85 miles, ca. 8 hours)
Ygg d'Razhuul (Astrum, 93 miles, ca. 8 hours)
Yggdramir (Astrum, 131 miles, ca. 11 hours)
Valkyrja (Astrum, 125 miles, ca. 11 hours)
and normal trip times... so i guess.. times only adjusted right after embarkment
---
right.. sailing back to D'hara the long way... (all the way west, south, then up middle)... as opposed to going through the channel.. because you can't go through the channel from up there.)
-
right.. sailing back to D'hara the long way... (all the way west, south, then up middle)... as opposed to going through the channel.. because you can't go through the channel from up there.)
You could land and cross the small patch by land and then embark again.
-
You could land and cross the small patch by land and then embark again.
Which was basically what people did back in the days to cross from the Atlantic to the Pacific, in Nicaragua.
Gives those who own that little isle control over sea traffic. Seems reasonable, given how narrow the passage is and that land travel is unimpeded by it.
-
ran out of gold after the landing/embarking around darfix XD (had the exact amount left!)
-
Sea trip from Aegir's Deep to Chesland uses exactly 100% of provisions and takes 4 real time days without starving troops perfectly.
but there is no margin for error in travel. must move on time or will run out of provisions.
I love the new sea routes. It will make war so much more real.
-
blimey.. did i just see the left menu not updating quick enough thing fixed? :) well done!
-
You are currently between Raviel (Townsland, D'Hara) and Port Raviel (City, D'Hara).
You should arrive there in about 4 hours, i.e. at the next turn.
Things you can do:
scout ahead to see what awaits you at your destination
turn around to return to Raviel.
Misdirection - deceive the enemy, stay here instead.
Choose a next destination:
Golden Farrow (Kabrinskia), ferry, 656 miles, 33 hours
Paisly (Provincia di Fiorenza), ferry, 266 miles, 13 hours
Port Nebel (D'Hara), ferry, 164 miles, 8 hours
What happens if I set the next destination? The game shouldn't show me that.
-
What happens if I set the next destination? The game shouldn't show me that.
why do you think that?
-
why do you think that?
The old ferry routes don't exist anymore, do they? It should say:
Choose a next destination:
Shattered Shores, 3 hours
Sea of Silence, 3 hours
-
The old ferry routes don't exist anymore, do they? It should say:
They still exist. I said that they would stick around for a while before I clean them out.
-
They still exist. I said that they would stick around for a while before I clean them out.
so we know how long we can still use them, when do you plan on removing them?
-
so we know how long we can still use them, when do you plan on removing them?
No, because I don't know either. Don't count on them, though. Whenever I get around to it, I'll remove them.
-
No, because I don't know either. Don't count on them, though. Whenever I get around to it, I'll remove them.
so probably more than a week then ? I am just wondering roughly how long I have them, a few days, a week, or a month. This sounds like it will likely end up being pretty close to 2 weeks.
-
just assume they are not there now and move that way?
-
Tom, the sea travel options are irreversible, which is quite a change from the other travel options, which allow you to cancel movement or turn around. I imagine that some of the phone-players might click the wrong travel link from time to time.
Especially for long disembarking times, this is a problem. I currently have this on sea_travel.php:
Sallowcape Drift
You are nearing the shores of Sallowwild.
You will reach the coast in about 24 hours.
I have no option to turn back. Considering things change within 24 hours, I now wish I could land in Sallowtown instead. It should be possible to turn the boats around at a cost in time, shouldn't it?
-
so probably more than a week then ?
Which part of "I don't know" did I accidentally write in Chinese?
-
I like it (sea travel) so far. Wish it was a bit faster.
Maybe I can pay more to get better, faster ships?
Also, now that we have sea zones... Could we get sea battles? And finally find a use for all these archers! ;D (Sorry if this was already suggested.) I would imagine that archers would be deadly during sea battles, while infantry is mostly useless and cavalry are worse than useless.
-
In early medieval Europe, the Greco-Roman style of naval warfare was still among the most common: Ram into the other ship to sink it or send your marines (infantry) over to board the other ship and slaughter their crew.
-
Also, now that we have sea zones... Could we get sea battles?
No, and I've already said that at least a dozen times.
-
don't give him ideas about sea battle... as in giant squids vs your ship.
-
those 13 hour/26 hour sea-sea trips are rather annoying... being just over the 12 hr/turn limit
mostly because you can't do anything else or keep sailing
obviously there are already land equivalents... donuts<->city, for example.
-
I like it (sea travel) so far. Wish it was a bit faster.
Maybe I can pay more to get better, faster ships?
Also, now that we have sea zones... Could we get sea battles? And finally find a use for all these archers! ;D (Sorry if this was already suggested.) I would imagine that archers would be deadly during sea battles, while infantry is mostly useless and cavalry are worse than useless.
Wait until sea travel is probably balenced before further complicating it and really, we should probably get ships as objects so we have something to fight with.
don't give him ideas about sea battle... as in giant squids vs your ship.
"Your travel has been delayed for 3 hours as you try to evade a kraken"
-
"Your travel has been delayed for 3 hours as you try to evade a kraken"
Tom, please put this in as flavor text. We would be very grateful and it would break the overt seriousness of things when it needs to be broken.
-
Wait until sea travel is probably balenced before further complicating it and really, we should probably get ships as objects so we have something to fight with.
There will never be sea battles. Don't ever expect to actually get ships as any kind of paraphernalia.
-
"Your travel has been delayed for 3 hours as you try to evade a kraken"
...evade? more like... kraken suddenly appears and tore your ship in half. you drift to nearby coast. (100 hrs till arrival) you have no idea what happened to your men as you don't see any in nearby flotsam.
-
"Your travel has been delayed for 3 hours as you try to evade a kraken"
"Your travel has been delayed for 3 hours as you detour to listen to the Sirens."
-
If we could have a few random reasons, that would be fun and maybe make players smile a little when delayed.
-
hate to repeat myself...
but.. play-travel2.php really need to show sea zone names when you have the option to sail. (either baked into the basic map, or sea zone overlay)
take avengmil, bt.. there's water to the east and water to the west... and just using that screen you wouldn't know which is which. (aside from name guessing)
----
yuri... priest... no scout or anything.
avengmil..
Naval Travel
embark ships in the...
Sea of Four Cities
Eastern Drift
With your current entourage, it would cost 10 gold and take 2 hours to procure and board ships.
... heading to eastern drift to swing south.
You are now embarking ships into the Eastern Drift.
The ships will sail at sunset.
It will take about 3 hours until you reach the open sea.
oddly.. left menu showed play-travel2 instead of sea_travel... didn't have the presence of mind to look at the action/etc... oh well.. next time.
-
So AT and EI going to get these two?
-
hate to repeat myself...
but.. play-travel2.php really need to show sea zone names when you have the option to sail. (either baked into the basic map, or sea zone overlay)
We heard you the first time. But it's a non-trivial change.
-
Why does the "Cobalt Gulf" sea region in Northern Dwilight not connect to Duil? Duil is a "coast" region. The Cobalt Gulf connects to all 10 other regions that border it.
-
The userdata.php page that lists all your characters simply shows "at sea" when your character is on a ship. Can this be modified to show if your character is actively sailing, rather than just stationary? Maybe it could say something like: "embarking, sailing, debarking, holding position" or something. This would mirror the "traveling, OK, etc." status that you have when not at sea.
-
Would it be possible to expand the edges of the Dynamic map slightly? At the moment some sea zones (like Chenier's Coast on Dwilight, for example) reach the very edge of the map, cutting off the beginnings of the sea zone names and making it difficult to see where they connect to other sea zones, particularly at closer zoom levels.
-
Why does the "Cobalt Gulf" sea region in Northern Dwilight not connect to Duil? Duil is a "coast" region. The Cobalt Gulf connects to all 10 other regions that border it.
It should. Does it connect to something else or to nothing at all? Please file a bug report.
-
The userdata.php page that lists all your characters simply shows "at sea" when your character is on a ship. Can this be modified to show if your character is actively sailing, rather than just stationary? Maybe it could say something like: "embarking, sailing, debarking, holding position" or something. This would mirror the "traveling, OK, etc." status that you have when not at sea.
It could, but I like it this way. When at sea, you are always actively sailing, you know?
-
Would it be possible to expand the edges of the Dynamic map slightly?
Not easily, that's the main problem of it all.
First, someone would have to do the graphics work, with stitching new water textures around the maps. It's a bit tricky, and mostly just loads of work.
Second, all coordinates would have to be recalculated, because they count from the corners.
Third, all the map tiles would need to be recut. That's the easy part because most of it is done by script.
-
in which case.. surely the "easier" way of doing it would be manually placing the text of the names.. say diagonally or some such?
.... or perhaps... leave the map as it is... then place it on an inert canvas of blue background and let the text overrun the edge of the map onto the blank canvas? or does that not work at all?
-
in which case.. surely the "easier" way of doing it would be manually placing the text of the names.. say diagonally or some such?
.... or perhaps... leave the map as it is... then place it on an inert canvas of blue background and let the text overrun the edge of the map onto the blank canvas? or does that not work at all?
Or water-patterned canvas?
-
.... or perhaps... leave the map as it is... then place it on an inert canvas of blue background and let the text overrun the edge of the map onto the blank canvas? or does that not work at all?
That would remove step 1, but still require the other two.
-
um... not being technical.. what i was suggesting is that... embedding the map where you have to do calculation, etc, in the middle of a bigger bit that is just a background wallpaper type thing where you don't do any calculation at all.
take the current dynamic map on dwi, when you zoom out a bit, say.. lvl 3... where lvl 1 is most zoomed in... on my screen at least, you can't scroll left/right because the whole thing is displayed on screen already. you can see cheniers coast (should that be chenier's coast?) has half the name displayed over black background. - ie.. you can see the whole name.
thus if you have a watery background or something... you can see the name.
---------
come to think of it.. you don't even need watery background. the "problem" as it stands is that when you zoom in to the 2 closerup levels, the map fills the whole screen width. i think if you reduce the width displayed (thus forcing black bands on either side of the map to be visible all the time)... you could see the names overflowing onto the black bands.. just like lvl3+
not sure if that helps or not.
-
um... not being technical.. what i was suggesting is that... e
I understand what you mean, and what I said remains.
-
Could sea zone show by default on the travel page? We get the option to embark, but no way of knowing where these sea zones actually are without opening another page.
-
Could sea zone show by default on the travel page? We get the option to embark, but no way of knowing where these sea zones actually are without opening another page.
I imagine that this is quite a problem for those playing on mobile phones.
-
Question about infiltrators and sea routes. If an infiltrator strikes, then immediately jumps on a ship (say, at the beginning of the turn), will patrolling the streets for the remainder of the turn have a chance to catch him or stab him or what have you?
In other words, will the infil be intercept-able?
-
sunday sunset
... yuri, bt, priest.
@ Enotian Sea with 16 hours
Or, alternatively, you can land at the coast of:
Fymmen Otu (Enweil, 276 miles, ca. 23 hours)
Nemeno ((rogue), 202 miles, ca. 17 hours)
Droxago (Riombara, 163 miles, ca. 14 hours)
Thromegor (Riombara, 141 miles, ca. 12 hours)
Elloranaal (Riombara, 93 miles, ca. 8 hours)
Jidington (Riombara, 90 miles, ca. 8 hours)
Brovyl (Riombara, 110 miles, ca. 10 hours)
Ovujemeh (Riombara, 51 miles, ca. 5 hours)
Bolkenia (Riombara, 203 miles, ca. 17 hours)
Cagamir (Riombara, 252 miles, ca. 21 hours)
...going to land in Ovujemeh (did it once before.. but thought the hours were bugged... so embarked, sailed to next zone then sailed back.)
--
You have given orders to set out for the coast.
It will take 5 hours until you spot the beach.
Enotian Sea
You are nearing the shores of Ovujemeh.
You will reach the coast in about 5 hours.
still 16 hours in hand.
going to report again at sunrise...
---
for comparision..
ivan, trader, dwi.
12 hours on hand, 11 hours to land in mimer.
-
continuing... landed.
yuri, priest, bt
currently has 6 hours. turn change was (2 hours, 19 minutes ago)
which is... just wrong.
16-5+?=6
he's old... so not sure what the rate should be... but would expect total hours to be double digit at least.
---
ivan, trader, dwi
12 hours in hand
.... that doesn't look right either XD
12-11+?=12
think ivan is supposed to get about 7 hours a turn nowadays.. not certain.
-
Really feels weird to have to take a huge detour by sea to get to Paisly or Paisland from Port Raviel, when it was always just a short trip away. I don't understand why the sea zones there weren't made to emulate how travel used to be. Otherwise it'd force us to board from Raviel... which is utterly akward, when we've always left from PORT Raviel right next door. Just seems like that's the place we ought to be building actual ports, not Raviel...
Port Raviel/Paisly is the only short sea route that seems to have been turned into a two-zone trip that I can see. Everywhere else, sea zones respect established sea routes. To compare, Port Raviel/Golden Farrow was made a one-zone switch, but Golden Farrow is much farther and travel between the two was always a lot more limited.
Just seems to me that the zones should have been like this, to keep short sea routes as a one zone hop, and longer sea routes as a two zone hop.
(http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/7871/dwilightseazones.png)
-
Port Raviel/Paisly is the only short sea route that seems to have been turned into a two-zone trip that I can see. Everywhere else, sea zones respect established sea routes. To compare, Port Raviel/Golden Farrow was made a one-zone switch, but Golden Farrow is much farther and travel between the two was always a lot more limited.
There were many things to consider in drawing up the sea zones, and not everything could be taken into account perfectly.
-
Would be great if we could chose next destination.
What would happen if we pause a character with a unit at sea? Do we lose the unit?
-
There were many things to consider in drawing up the sea zones, and not everything could be taken into account perfectly.
Would modifying the polygons be a lot of work? Travelling from Port Raviel to Paisly is a lot longer than it used to be, and a lot longer than the distance between them suggests it ought to take.
-
Would modifying the polygons be a lot of work? Travelling from Port Raviel to Paisly is a lot longer than it used to be, and a lot longer than the distance between them suggests it ought to take.
Maybe it would be easier to travel from Paisly to Raviel, and from there to Port Raviel? ;D
-
Maybe it would be easier to travel from Paisly to Raviel, and from there to Port Raviel? ;D
It could be done, and if nothing changes, we'll have to do it. But it feels so utterly wrong, and would make Raviel a much more important port than Port Raviel... Why bother with Port Raviel when Raviel links to both Port Nebel and Paisly? Heck, if that little island up north is ever made a region, we could even hop to there directly from Raviel. It just feels utterly wrong to suddenly have Raviel become a more much strategically-placed port location than the city right next door, which has historically served that purpose.
-
Maybe it would be easier to travel from Paisly to Raviel, and from there to Port Raviel? ;D
That is the issue, the Port Raviel is a worse port than Raviel which makes no sense IG.
-
Not sure if it has been mentioned but would it be possible to make embarking nobles/units appear on the region description?
It doesn't really make sense that one would have no idea that there's a fleet approaching, especially since ships hardly took anything but coastal routes for the most part of the middle ages. Not to mention that you're playing blind if any coastal region can just gain reinforcements without any warning.
-
Not sure if it has been mentioned but would it be possible to make embarking nobles/units appear on the region description?
It doesn't really make sense that one would have no idea that there's a fleet approaching, especially since ships hardly took anything but coastal routes for the most part of the middle ages. Not to mention that you're playing blind if any coastal region can just gain reinforcements without any warning.
First, there will be some sort of early warning system, to be developed later. This has been mentioned about 8 times so far.
Second, the fact that you are playing blind is one of the 'fun' parts of the game--uncertainty in combat, and surprise landings/repelled landings--is going to add some new dynamics to the game.
-
First, there will be some sort of early warning system, to be developed later. This has been mentioned about 8 times so far.
Second, the fact that you are playing blind is one of the 'fun' parts of the game--uncertainty in combat, and surprise landings/repelled landings--is going to add some new dynamics to the game.
The level of blindness that is suggested is greater than my preference, personally.
We could never know for sure, in land battles, if an enemy army would arrive at the same time we do in any region we moved into. Many moves were forced to be blind as a result. But it was always possible to take one's time to send a vanguard to scout the way for the army, if desired, at the cost of revealing one's travel path. It was pretty balanced, imo.
The possibility of foreign armies dropping on your capital's doorstep, without any form of serious forewarning (more than just when they arrive), does not feel very balanced.
-
The possibility of foreign armies dropping on your capital's doorstep, without any form of serious forewarning (more than just when they arrive), does not feel very balanced.
Put down militia and fortifications. The losses a landing army suffers if it faces any kind of serious defense are devastating. There's your balance - your enemy is as blind as you are.
-
Put down militia and fortifications. The losses a landing army suffers if it faces any kind of serious defense are devastating. There's your balance - your enemy is as blind as you are.
In all of your coastal rural regions?
Spending this much on militia means a whole lot less for the mobile army and other fun stuff, greatly decreasing everyone's offensive capabilities and therefore making war less viable an endeavour.
-
In all of your coastal rural regions?
Spending this much on militia means a whole lot less for the mobile army and other fun stuff, greatly decreasing everyone's offensive capabilities and therefore making war less viable an endeavour.
Ah, look! Decisions! What horror, you might have to make a choice. Do you defend everything, or just the important regions? How much? At all times or only during war? Do you station militia or keep a mobile defense force to move to where you expect an attack? Decisions, decisions, decisions...
How horrible to not be able to look up the perfect, optimal, tested levelling-up-HOWTO somewhere.
-
Ah, look! Decisions! What horror, you might have to make a choice. Do you defend everything, or just the important regions? How much? At all times or only during war? Do you station militia or keep a mobile defense force to move to where you expect an attack? Decisions, decisions, decisions...
How horrible to not be able to look up the perfect, optimal, tested levelling-up-HOWTO somewhere.
We always had to make choices. But never could a huge army arrive on your doorstep arrive in your capital with but a mere's day forewarning.
Are we supposed to plop huge amounts of militia onto every coastal region, draining rural regions of all of their income, only to have them get crushed by an invading force anyways? The answer is most likely no. But then that means that any attacking army will not disembark directly on the capital, nor the doughnut townsland around it if on Dwilight, but on the next rural region next door. Giving absolutely no time for the realm to react.
It's effectively a nuke. A weapon against which there is no defense. Are wars going to be more fun once people start plopping in huge armies next to enemy capitals by sea?
-
Put down militia and fortifications. The losses a landing army suffers if it faces any kind of serious defense are devastating. There's your balance - your enemy is as blind as you are.
It's not that hard to coordinate a land and sea army where the land army destroys the militia, starts a TO and is then guarded from intervention by the threat of a out of the blue reinforcement by sea. I don't mind at all that they /can/ be reinforced so easily, the only issue I have is that it is nigh impossible to know anything about the reinforcements until they've already arrived. Making battles not a thing of planning, but just of stabbing in the dark. The only way to cope with it would be late-turn movements and I don't think that's something to be encouraged.
-
It's effectively a nuke. A weapon against which there is no defense.
Ask Fissoa how it worked out for them.
And yes, I stopped listening to "this is going to destroy the game" whining about 6 or 7 years ago.
-
The true problem would not be cities but rurals. Cities are quite difficult to handle as it is. It is much easier to simply loot rurals to the ground and let cities starve out. If the enemy mobile troops don't come in time to stop you their realm is finished. With the new system you can simply hop on a boat when reinforcements come.
-
The only way to tell how it will work out, is for someone to try it and see what happens. Until someone really makes a serious attempt to drop troops behind enemy lines and loot, and finds an undefended coastline, we won't know what the effects will be. One incident of GDoF crashing into the rocks doesn't give us enough to go on.
-
Ask Fissoa how it worked out for them.
And yes, I stopped listening to "this is going to destroy the game" whining about 6 or 7 years ago.
It's not because it fails for one case that it is impossible.
Falkirk is a one-city realm, for whom it would be foolish to send an army abroad due to the still-existing sea route from the old system and due to the fact they are at war with a neighbor.
On top of that, Fissoa is a relatively small realm, with no big cities or significantly rich regions. Their army is small, and even if Falkirk's army was away it'd be questionnable if they could have taken on Madina city by themselves.
These are not the scenarios that raise concerns. What raises concerns is for the possibility to send 40 000 CS or more, on a realm that doesn't have all of its forces constantly around the capital (either due to being larger, or to be active abroad).
-
Put down militia and fortifications. The losses a landing army suffers if it faces any kind of serious defense are devastating. There's your balance - your enemy is as blind as you are.
The enemy only needs to have a unit less noble scout ahead for them, the defenders can not do the same, so the whole the enemy is blind too, is not exactly true.
-
These are not the scenarios that raise concerns. What raises concerns is for the possibility to send 40 000 CS or more, on a realm that doesn't have all of its forces constantly around the capital (either due to being larger, or to be active abroad).
40 K enemy CS in your realm is indeed something to concern your self off, may it be sea travel or land travel.
Sea travel has a little more of the element of surprise in terms of when the enemy is coming.
But dont forget that sea travel is very very expensive, and still quite a risk even for the attacker.
Besides what an attacker does the defender can do as well, you mention for example the defender to be abroad, that means that as long as the enemy torches your land, you can torch his?
Let us just form opinions like this a bit later on, when we learn more.
Right now we can only make assumptions, and i found yours to be rather extreme right now.
-
it's expensive and it's not expensive.
eg.. on bt, my 81 sf/3 scout/2 cart/5 healer/5 banner/3demo tools (no idea what cost what so listing it out...) is said to cost 90 gold and take 11 hours to procure and board ships.
now... 6 days' wages for that lot costs 166 gold. If sea travelling is far enough to save say... 3 or days' worth of travelling (that's including stopping at every small region) then it's a bargain. that doesn't even count the equipment damage.
that said.. have to take into account of re-provisioning as you'll have to land and get provision before embarking again.. if the journey is that long. totally forgot how much provision is eaten a day at sea. haven't tried using it to move troops yet. might do that the next time i refit.
-
These are not the scenarios that raise concerns. What raises concerns is for the possibility to send 40 000 CS or more, on a realm that doesn't have all of its forces constantly around the capital (either due to being larger, or to be active abroad).
If your enemy can project 40k CS abroad, sea travel is the least of your worries. Right now, there is exactly one realm on Dwilight that has more than 40k CS in total, including militia.
Let us just form opinions like this a bit later on, when we learn more.
Exactly. I am fairly sure you will find out soon enough that you don't want to do hot landing zones if you can avoid it.
-
40 K enemy CS in your realm is indeed something to concern your self off, may it be sea travel or land travel.
Sea travel has a little more of the element of surprise in terms of when the enemy is coming.
But dont forget that sea travel is very very expensive, and still quite a risk even for the attacker.
Besides what an attacker does the defender can do as well, you mention for example the defender to be abroad, that means that as long as the enemy torches your land, you can torch his?
Let us just form opinions like this a bit later on, when we learn more.
Right now we can only make assumptions, and i found yours to be rather extreme right now.
If you are a large realm, with half of your troops doing stuff in the West, a quarter in the east, and a quarter simply not mobilized for combat, with many of the troops deployed ranking in equipment damage and expecting pay, then the counter-attack idea isn't really a viable plan, and odds are the troops can't race to the capital before the enemy reaches it. And by the time they do, they'll have a smaller and battered force. And should the capital be coastal, odds are the attackers will have started a TO to prevent any use of the walls.
Before, the enemies would have needed to enter by the border. In small realms, the forewarning isn't large, but the troops are rarely far away from the capital. In large realms, that gave plenty of forewarning to rush troops to defend. In addition, the enemy could not conduct a takeover of the capital before effectivelly destroying your realm, meaning you were sure to get some use of the walls sooner or later.
The costs and risks of such an operation limit who can effectively launch it, but doesn't make it much less potent for those who can.
Please note that I am not saying that everyone will be able to do massive damage by sea, but rather that some will now be able to do unprecedented damage by surprise.
-
And should the capital be coastal, odds are the attackers will have started a TO to prevent any use of the walls.
I think this does not happen anymore with the new TO system. There was a discussion with Tom some time ago and he pretty much stated it was never intended that a takeover could deny defenders the use of walls.
-
I think this does not happen anymore with the new TO system. There was a discussion with Tom some time ago and he pretty much stated it was never intended that a takeover could deny defenders the use of walls.
That would be news to me. Last battles I saw concerning TOs and walls, the walls couldn't be used.
Should that be the case, though, it'd lower my fear of surprise sea attacks considerably.
-
Is landing turn based or does it work like regular sea travel ?
-
well.. they all go by turns...
embark/landing supposed to use normal hours (<8 a turn)
sailing uses sea hours (travel 12 sea hours a turn)
-
hmm... maybe landing doesn't use normal hours.. despite what wiki says?
yosef with his 70 odd sf tried to land from eastern drift to avengmil at sunset. think it said 16 hours and he had 12 hours on hand.
1 turn later, at sunrise, he's 4 hours away from land with 12 hours on hand still..... so why has he got 12 hours on hand... if landing uses normal hours? (20% provision did get used during landing)
would have expected something like 4 hours away with maybe 6 hours on hand (since he gets about 6 a turn nowadays.. i think)
-
Does embarking status show on scout reports?
-
When my priest on Dwilight landed, he lost almost all the time in his time pool.
-
sunset... yosef and his sf... landed
Back on Dry Land (1 hour, 7 minutes ago)
personal message
Your ship has arrived at the coast of Avengmil and is putting you ashore.
Getting ashore takes most of your time, even though much of it is wasted in waiting.
10 hours on hand.
---
not sure why 10 hours.... 10 = 4+6... not sure where the 4 came from.
-
eastern drift->avengmil... priest with 16 hours on hand. estimated landing time = 16. with some luck i should have only a hour or 2 on hand when i wake up.
-
eastern drift->avengmil... priest with 16 hours on hand. estimated landing time = 16. with some luck i should have only a hour or 2 on hand when i wake up.
Wake up? ah come on the boat rides ain't that bad
-
wake up ... irl..
---
sunrise... yuri the priest, bt
Eastern Drift
You are nearing the shores of Avengmil.
You will reach the coast in about 4 hours.
which meant... he did 12 hour out of the 16 hour trip..
the priest also still has 16 hours on hand.
which seems to point to landing using naval hours instead of personal hours. or some such. will know how many hours on hand he has at sunset.
-
Your priest doesn't move faster than the ship--he can't swim that well in his heavy robes.
-
except... as wiki said, landing is supposed to take PERSONAL hours, not naval hours.
http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Sea_Travel
---
sunset.. landed
Back on Dry Land (just in)
personal message
Your ship has arrived at the coast of Avengmil and is putting you ashore.
Getting ashore takes most of your time, even though much of it is wasted in waiting.
4 hours on hand.
a common theme of 4 base hours upon landing? then normal classes get their turn's worth of hours added to it... priests accumulate their hours on top of the 4....
"Getting ashore takes most of your time, even though much of it is wasted in waiting." <---- matches that line of description though...
-
Well, you're going to land with one of the regular sunrise/sunset turns--apparently the tide follows the sun.
How many hours you have in your pool may change, it may be a random number, or change if there's a port, etc.
-
..... this happened to a trader with no unit (dwi, a couple of pages back), a h/w with 70 odd men and a priest. after landing, all of them had 4 hours base + 1 turn's worth of hours or in the priest's case, just the base because he hadn't accumulate hours yet since landing.
the priest had 16 hours on hand, so if landing uses personal hours, he would have landed at 1st turn change with 0 hours on hand (landing was supposed to take 16 hours). that didn't happen.
either there's a bug in the landing code, or it's working exactly as intended (landing takes naval hours, then upon landing, zap your personal hours to 4 + turn's worth, etc) and the wiki has dodgy info.
-
The wiki has dodgy info. The current 4 hours is a hack until we can get a better calculation in.
-
"2 new navies are ready. There are now 2 available."
shipyard stuff from the daily report...... don't know... maybe fleet(s) would be a better word? though.. still sounds like a load of ships. not sure what the medieval naval formation terms are... just plain old ships maybe (chance of confusion with the travel versions...)
-
"2 new navies are ready. There are now 2 available."
shipyard stuff from the daily report...... don't know... maybe fleet(s) would be a better word? though.. still sounds like a load of ships. not sure what the medieval naval formation terms are... just plain old ships maybe (chance of confusion with the travel versions...)
So does that mean it works now? And is it supposed to be some sort of paraphernalia then?
-
it's not something for a noble (what... you carry ships around on land?). doubt it actually works.
-
It actually wasn't uncommon to carry disassembled ships while on campaign if you knew you'd need them and didn'twerent going to be somewhere you could just requisition them.
-
It actually wasn't uncommon to carry disassembled ships while on campaign if you knew you'd need them and didn'twerent going to be somewhere you could just requisition them.
Could you expand on this or provide some sources, pease?
-
Could you expand on this or provide some sources, pease?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portage (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portage) First done around 600 BC.
-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portage (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portage) First done around 600 BC.
That article only references canoes, not warships.
Viking longships, however, can be ported; I see no indication that they were disassembled prior to doing so.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longship
-
... you expect to carry a couple of sea going ships around with your average 50 odd people?
if you can't carry forges and anvils around to do repairs as such, why on earth would anyone expect to be allowed to carry ships around?
(i've read about viking ships carried around on land i think.... in comics anyway. vinland saga.)
anyway... it's been said before.. they pop out of their home ports into nearby seas to patrol (no idea how it works) nothing to do with individual nobles
-
... you expect to carry a couple of sea going ships around with your average 50 odd people?
if you can't carry forges and anvils around to do repairs as such, why on earth would anyone expect to be allowed to carry ships around?
(i've read about viking ships carried around on land i think.... in comics anyway. vinland saga.)
anyway... it's been said before.. they pop out of their home ports into nearby seas to patrol (no idea how it works) nothing to do with individual nobles
I wasn't arguing for paraphernalia, though Gustav might of. I was simply supplying a source link and wondering the nature of it. I asked if it was paraphernalia because if you have a finite amount then how are they used? Does the lord just click a button to scan or what? Btw, my mechanic questions are also directed at the devs or those that know, not necessarily those I am quoting.
-
So does that mean it works now? And is it supposed to be some sort of paraphernalia then?
No, and no.
-
I wasn't arguing for paraphernalia, though Gustav might of. I was simply supplying a source link and wondering the nature of it. I asked if it was paraphernalia because if you have a finite amount then how are they used? Does the lord just click a button to scan or what? Btw, my mechanic questions are also directed at the devs or those that know, not necessarily those I am quoting.
I was not arguing for that either. That does not fit the character of the game.
-
Although sea travel doesn't effect me personally just yet with only having chars on the FEI I'd nevertheless still like to recommend an excellant book on the subject if I can, as while it's somewhat of a sizable tomb (heck it seems nearly all those I find myself ending up getting are. :o ) it's content, both in scope and detail, more then make it well worth the read.
Rose, Susan - Medieval Naval Warfare 1000 - 1500
-
Navies are still not implemented. They do get production already, so it's not a waste to build a shipyard. Once navies are implemented, the ones you have in stock will automatically be used.
-
Navies are still not implemented. They do get production already, so it's not a waste to build a shipyard. Once navies are implemented, the ones you have in stock will automatically be used.
How will they work?
-
I dont know if this has been talked about in the past, but how is the sea travel supposed to work for priests? I would have imagined it to work same as normal travel (instant), but even though I have the hours its not so.
Do we wait for turns, wait IRL the amount of hours needed or will it drain hours from the time pool?
-
Sea travel is the same for priests as for everyone else. There is no difference.
-
you might recall me taking about navies in daily report previously...
just got another one built....
here are the 2 reports
Regional Report for Avengmil (4 days, 2 hours ago)
2 new navies are ready. There are now 2 available.
Regional Report for Avengmil (2 hours, 19 minutes ago)
1 new navy is ready. There are now 2 available.
seeing as navy isn't actually done nor is there a way for me to send them out... eh.. did 1 just disappear into thin air?
I suppose, this applies to all produced Paraphernalia and similar stuff... do they decay whilst in storage? i've been wondering because demo tools always disappears but i don't know if people actually buy that stuff as there's nothing for us to blow up.
-----
08/12... again 1 produced but 2 in storage. don't suppose storage is capped at 2 or some such? (but wouldn't that say something different?)
1 new navy is ready. There are now 2 available.
---
09/12.... ok.. it's not capped at 2.. but there's some sort of decay/usage somewhere?
1 new navy is ready. There are now 3 available.
-
Bump, I don't think people are seeing your edits.
-
built a harbour in avenmgil. and so far i don't think i've seen price/time change for my priest.... (10 gold 2 hours)
but build screen did say... production will start tomorrow (eh? wonder what it produces... most likely it'll be like blacksmith....)
will check tomorrow for the difference.
-
built a harbour in avenmgil. and so far i don't think i've seen price/time change for my priest.... (10 gold 2 hours)
but build screen did say... production will start tomorrow (eh? wonder what it produces... most likely it'll be like blacksmith....)
will check tomorrow for the difference.
The boarding cost and time is probably ax+b=y (simplified), with b being a fixed amount of gold/time for your character. I'd think only the boarding time and cost for your unit scales up according to size, and down because of a harbour. So I wouldn't expect further reductions :)
-
hmm... forgot to check this morning.... but it's 8 gold and 2 hours now.
-
For a 25 men unit, the embark fees are now 76 gold and 12 hours!
I don't know if it's correct behaviour, now is winter and maybe the fees for sea travel are up... but this seems a bit too much! :P
-
For a 25 men unit, the embark fees are now 76 gold and 12 hours!
I don't know if it's correct behaviour, now is winter and maybe the fees for sea travel are up... but this seems a bit too much! :P
1) are you in your realm?
2) are there harbors?
Without these two informations, the rest is useless.
-
Also, your paraphernalia matter. Siege engines, for example, will add a lot of both gold and time.
-
Also, your paraphernalia matter. Siege engines, for example, will add a lot of both gold and time.
All paraphernalia?
-
mmm... no harbours, not my realm... and Paraphernalia: 5 Scouts, 1 Healers, 2 Banners, 5 Demolition.
-
is that realm at war with yours? (or is it sympathy based as well?)
-
Totally in war! 8)... the sympathy affects embark fees? :o
-
I like it.
It's good for long distances.
I like even better that half of the expenses can be refunded by the army chest.
I think "turning back", and "disembarking on the nearest shore" should be implemented in a not so far future, because sometimes we mess up calculations or miss a turn or 4, or misclick.
I like that we can't see other people at sea with us - makes it harder to coordinate an assault. But I do hope that the turn in which attacking troops click the "disembark" button, the defenders in a region get a warning of approaching ships. This way, at least people 1 region away can try to arrive there and mount a defense. Or maybe you get the option eventually to build a lighthouse in some regions, that will give you a warning of ships that get 3-4 hours close, or will just disembark at next turn.
From my sea experience, you can easily see islands 10 sailing hours away, if they have tall enough mountains, and 50' ships about 2-3 sailing hours away, if you're some 20 meters above sea level. Touristic cruisers you can see from as far as 6 sailing hours away, even at sea level. I guess I could go look up a map and try to find the distances I'm mentioning. It's all from sailing and observing from a particular beach. I'm not sure those medieval ships were as fast as the one I used, but who knows?
Who knows if it'll be even necessary, actually.
-
... forgot how "reaching open seas" work... too lazy to look up earlier posts. so here goes.
12 hours on hand. 80 sf.. takes 10 hours and 90 odd gold to embark from rural of own realm
that means 2 hours left on hand, but reaching open sea cost 4 hours. will see what happens next turn.
might even get to see a "combat landing" this trip (albeit against undead in own realm)
---
next turn, open sea... so naval hours... right... i'll try to remember it.... (hmm... maybe the 2 hours should be called something different)
...19 hour landing in melegra.... chances are.. i'll miss any battle..
-
sailing from a harbour...
The Storm of the South war chest covers 32 gold of the embarking costs.
You are now embarking ships into the Eastern Drift.
The ships will sail at sunset.
It will take about 5 hours until you reach the open sea.
Thanks to the friendly harbor, everything goes smoothly and almost pleasantly. <-----
that last line... does that mean things can go tits up if not at a harbour?
-
No, it will just take longer.
-
I would like to see Sea Travel moved to the stable islands. What's stopping us, other than sea zone names and demarcations?
-
I would like to see Sea Travel moved to the stable islands. What's stopping us, other than sea zone names and demarcations?
It's not even completely implemented on testing, yet. We still need to remove the old sea routes.
Aside from that, yes, drawing the sea zones, etc.
-
It's not even completely implemented on testing, yet. We still need to remove the old sea routes.
Aside from that, yes, drawing the sea zones, etc.
The bug that prevents you from restocking provisions by looting should also be fixed first or over sea warfare would be neigh impossible for the attacker.
-
Just tried sea travelling with an advy on BT. I'm on the eastern drift now. I couldn't read everything written before this, so I don't know if it's mentioned or not, but under the orders page I have two links saying 'Pay your men' and 'unit settings'. Those shouldn't be there for an advy. But other than that, I think the sea travel is absolutely awesome! Thanks Tom :)
-
Just tried sea travelling with an advy on BT. I'm on the eastern drift now. I couldn't read everything written before this, so I don't know if it's mentioned or not, but under the orders page I have two links saying 'Pay your men' and 'unit settings'. Those shouldn't be there for an advy. But other than that, I think the sea travel is absolutely awesome! Thanks Tom :)
Hmm, I have an interesting idea for a feature that would be for advys while on sea travel but no point in making the request with the doctrine conversion happening which is also why I haven't made a few other feature requests.
-
I feel too often I am being negative on the devs work so something positive is that I think what was done with sea travel when not having enough gold for embarking was a really good idea and well balanced