| Summary: | Kabrinskia Realm Merger |
| Violation: | Realm Mergers Rule |
| World: | Dwilight |
| Complainer: | Lyman Stone (http://battlemaster.org/UserDetails.php?ID=10403) |
| About: | Allison (http://battlemaster.org/UserDetails.php?ID=29042) |
A point of fact:
Unless there is something I do not know about, this is the second time this has happened, not the third. The moving of the Duchy of Sun Hall to Luria Nova did not leave the realm deprived of duchies or regions capable of being the capital.
Surrender of Hammarsett was #1.
People often forget it.
Except for the part where Allison was personally told this was a no-no.
And the player of Allison is very regular and active on the forum.
Though I agree we need a better announcement system.
Surrender of Hammarsett was #1.
People often forget it.
Letter from Sergio Mozzoni (41 minutes ago)
Message sent to everyone in message group "Vasilif's Council" (7 recipients)
Lady Allison asked for political asylum for her and her duchy. I granted her a home in Astrum and offered an estate in Eidulb but not to her lands, of course. I'll share my correspondance with you asap.
Now we should focus on calming the situation and rebulding former Kabrinskia.
Please share your thoughts with this council. Any help is welcomed.
Sergio Mozzoni
Vasilif of Astrum
Duke of Eidulb
Margrave of Eidulb
Letter from Allison Kabrinski (23 hours, 46 minutes ago)
Message sent to everyone in your realm (18 recipients)
If Brom doesnt remove the ban or if we dont protest him out of office I will join the Duchy to another realm to save my seat. Astrum and Dhara have said they would accept me.
I encourage you all to continue the protests
Allison Kabrinski
Duchess of the Maddening Star
Margravine of Golden Farrow
Priestess of Sanguis Astroism
Orders from Sergio Mozzoni (33 minutes ago)
Message sent to everyone in your realm (46 recipients)
Nobles of Astrum, old and new,
Recent events have rejoined us under the banner of Astrum. It's a pleasure to meet our brothers and sisters again but this situation is only temporary. We should focus on preparing the secession of Golden Farrow and its duchy, once the political situation is clear and all parties agree.
Sergio Mozzoni
Vasilif of Astrum
Duke of Eidulb
Margrave of Eidulb
The messages we have about this issue are:From a ruler stand point, you want to make everything sound planned as it sounds bad to say it wasn't, so he was replying IC not with the truth, as he was merely doing IC propaganda.
and the one spoken about by Dante is:
Hope this helps. This shows that Allison had already discussed this with them.
I really think it's the fault of the system, as it relies on people being in-tune with what's on the forums in order for people to realize something is a bug and not normal. IF there had been a general announcement on battlemaster regarding the first magistrate case, this wouldn't have happened.
Is it really a realm merger if the ruler of Kabrinska didn't have any say in it? It seems like it's more a case of a duke taking their duchy away without the permission of the rest of the realm . . . now, it's possibly exploitation of a bug that they could do so, but that's not actually a merger in the sense that we've been told is Bad.
Why on earth is this even possible? To the layman not frequenting the forums, one would have seen others do it without anything to suggest it wasn't ok.
While ignorance of the law is not an excuse, and that an experienced player as himself really ought to know better, I really do feel like this should have been made impossible a long time ago.
As I'm quite sure was mentioned in the earlier threads on this subject:
It was impossible. Then we rewrote the code that handles this stuff from scratch due to a completely new hierarchy system and the Doctrine transition. This check was lost in translation somehow.
Since the earlier instances, the dev team has not had the time and energy to dive into this code and fix the bug.
If you're still sore about it, go become a PHP super-whiz so you can join the dev team and fix every single bug in BattleMaster before any player could possibly find it. Based on your tone in this and many other posts, I'm quite sure you're just super-mega-awesome enough to do that in no time flat, right?
The messages we have about this issue are:
Letter from Allison Kabrinski (23 hours, 46 minutes ago)
Message sent to everyone in your realm (18 recipients)
If Brom doesnt remove the ban or if we dont protest him out of office I will join the Duchy to another realm to save my seat. Astrum and Dhara have said they would accept me.
I encourage you all to continue the protests
Allison Kabrinski
Duchess of the Maddening Star
Margravine of Golden Farrow
Priestess of Sanguis Astroism
What is the definition of realm merger other than:
1. All nobles of realm A join realm B.
2. All regions of realm A join realm B.
3. Aside from government positions, all nobles from realm A retain all of their titles.
A "friendly realm merger" does not require a precise definition of every word. What I intend by those words is that I don't want realm A and realm B to sit together and say "hey, as one realm we would have better game mechanics on our side" or whatever, and then simply join up.
What happened here was NOT the scenario I see as a "friendly realm merger", because it was not an agreed act of cooperation between two parties. You can discuss the "friendly" part if you want, but there wasn't a merger. Whatever you call it, and it sure is a strange event, but it's not the event I ruled disallowed.
Using this argument, only "friendly realm mergers" are unallowed the realm council stupidly chose to ban the last Duke/Duchess of their realm and instead of the Duke/Duchess taking it lying down she chose to take her duchy with her. None of those falls under "friendly" terms, apparently it was done in protest to her ban and in spite of the judge and King that banned her, nothing about this says "friendly".
If the King and Judge didn't want this to happen .. then they shouldn't have attempted to ban a Duchess/Duke they hold considerable power, it's why they hold power to appoint Regional Lords.
- Should this have been able to happen? No.
- Should it have been announced in some form, in game until the issue was addressed? Yes.
- Was it? No.
Lets note that none of the three above are fault of the accused.
In Closing was there a merger? Yes, a merger of one duchy moving into another realm. However this was done on unfriendly terms and not in violation of the official rules of "No FRIENDLY mergers" However technically by game mechanics should not have been possible. But we aren't arguing the semantics of game mechanics rather than if the accused party is guilty of violating a rule of the game. There was a civil internal strife in her previous kingdom that attempted to ban her in which turn she'd lose her Ducal seat, position as Margravine and instead of losing it all preferred to simply move her duchy away.
So If I was to make an opinion based on this, I'd say she isn't guilty however the dev. team should work on factors to prevent this from happening in the future.
If you should have known, it's an exploit. Otherwise, it's a mistake. There is no point in making knowing more difficult than it should be. Figuring out the rules is not part of the game.
Still considered a friendly realm merger. Want to take on destroy realm A, realm B take over all regions.
Realm mergers are illegal. Realms may surrender to another, including annihilation of their lands, but they may not merge as equal entities on friendly terms.
Realm mergers are illegal. Realms may surrender to another, including annihilation of their lands, but they may not merge as equal entities on friendly terms.
Also, Kabrinskia only has one city and one duchy. Allison can't secede, nor change allegiance to another realm.
A 3-day lock is more a punishment to everyone else in former Kabrinskia as it means at the very least three more days before Allison steps down and we can actually do something constructive with the duchy. And the city's set to starve in less than two days, oh joy.
A 3-day lock is more a punishment to everyone else in former Kabrinskia as it means at the very least three more days before Allison steps down and we can actually do something constructive with the duchy. And the city's set to starve in less than two days, oh joy.
No, she is still in the ducal seat (and Lord of the city), except now it's an Astrum duchy.
So the judge can execute her when she's unable to leave the realm because of the account lock? No thanks.
It's an OOC solution to an OOC problem, and IC bureaucracy is going to prevent it from being the expedient that's needed.
This judgement is an OOC punishment on Allison's former realm-mates.
From what I know about what's going on IC, banning Allison from Astrum could be made to work perfectly well as an IC thing.
No, it is not. It is a punishment on Allison.
Just because it happens to have the effect of delaying your ability to do what you want with the duchy does not mean that the judgment is a punishment on you. That is extremely small-minded and selfish thinking.
This whole line of thinking—that a 3-day lock of one person is somehow really meant as a punishment for others—is just so completely wrongheaded I'm not going to try to address it further.
It's also utterly and completely beyond the scope of this case. If you dislike the idea of a temporary account lock as a standard punishment for violations of the Social Contract and the other rules of the game, you need to start a new thread somewhere else to discuss it. For now, this is the punishment for Allison that has been handed down, and it is not subject to appeal by you.
A "friendly realm merger"...what I intend by those words is that I don't want realm A and realm B to sit together and say "hey, as one realm we would have better game mechanics on our side" or whatever, and then simply join up.