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BattleMaster => Locals => Dwilight => Topic started by: Nosferatus on April 05, 2011, 10:00:53 PM
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About 3 prominent Madinan members have joined the civil war in total, a state of emergency has been called and things will result in a real war.
It will all depend on when whos going to attack and how much forces both parties can muster there at that moment that will determine the war.
Candiels has no archer RC centers and both Madina and Candiels are facing various monster and undead attacks since the secession.
Time seems to be in the advantage of Madina, while Candiels needs to strike before Madina restores her name sake city and almost doubles her national income.
With all armies now under the direct command of Lord Admiral Vallyn and a new Lord Purser whos trying to found a goverment trade/social security company, managing food distribution and a base income for all nobles, Madina threatens to become slithly more effective.
Fissoa is also trying to remain neutral making things look, Overall, quite interesting.
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Madina lost its capital city, much of its nobles and a duchy. As to how it looks now, Madina can only lose more by destroying Aurvandil, because you can not take back what you lost (at least not at the moment).
War has already been declared, but with the right diplomacy, I think it is more valuable to give give this new realm a chance and establish peaceful relations on your terms. Madina will have the leverage here, because Aurvandil is most likely eager to survive. Then Madina can reconquer its island in the meantime. Later you can always decide to take back what is rightfully yours. :-X I can not say that. That would be unethical.
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Haha :)
Well, I can say Fissoa feels like Aurvandil is going through a similar evolution as we once did. Some kind of new Grand Duchy. :) Wether we will act on that feeling is still open for discussion. Abbot is not looked at with great sympathy though :)
All in all very interesting indeed!
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Huh, I guess Madina won't be going after SA after all.
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I don't think we were ever really that worried about it.
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It's the thought/threat that counts, maybe.
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It was apparent that only an element in Caerwyn ever though Madina was going to really make an impact in that war.
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It was apparent that only an element in Caerwyn ever though Madina was going to really make an impact in that war.
With both Astrum and Morek both having experience in supporting the other with military expeditions in the past, we never even considered the possibility of seeing any Madinan soldiers in battle. It was pretty clear that the Madinan declaration was political flag waving.
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It was apparent that only an element in Caerwyn ever though Madina was going to really make an impact in that war.
No, that was just me... ::)
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I don't see what Madina has to gain in fighting Auvrandil. Madina can't hold its home regions to begin with, let along Candiels.
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Could just be a pride thing. Depending on the exact relationships etc I could easily see the IC thing to do would be to burn the foul traitors out of the area, salt the earth so that such corruption can never again be fostered in the fertile soil of our old lands, that kind of thing.
Strategically no, it doesn't appear to make much sense.
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Abbot is actually eager in making a deal that allow the realm to prosper.
But the terms to satisfy his realm mates would be harsh.
More like turning that realm into a vassal state and the head of Mendicant and perhaps one or two others.
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Abbot is actually eager in making a deal that allow the realm to prosper.
But the terms to satisfy his realm mates would be harsh.
More like turning that realm into a vassal state and the head of Mendicant and perhaps one or two others.
With that, it would be interesting to have a very close knit of duchies who call the, "states" of a federation or something yet they are all different realms. It would be like having 5 senators (rulers) who would speak for their state (realm) and try to coordinate this and that. Perhaps very effective military wise as 5 realms would have 5 recruiting centers..
Anyways, back on topic! Just threaten them and beat them up a bit until they agree to more satisfying terms ;D
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Anyways, back on topic! Just threaten them and beat them up a bit until they agree to more satisfying terms ;D
I think this is what I would have done in Abbot's situation.
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Ugh, I wish I had more time to commit to this plot line at the moment. I'd love to write up a nice big RP about how honour demands the Madinan flag fly over the Candiels duchy once more, stating if they wanted to secede then they should have formally asked for it, paid Madina some compensation and then leave.
All I can muster at the moment is: "buy my food!" :(
Ahh well, maybe I'll be free for the next interesting thing to happen in Madina.....
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Why does SA have to invade all posts in the Dwilight section? :p Astroism is no real issue in the south...
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The Light of the Bloodstars shines over all the lands. You cannot escape their influence.
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The Light of the Bloodstars shines over all the lands. You cannot escape their influence.
Burn Heretic! The Gods will smite the very bloodstars themselves and throw them to the great void where they will burn for eternity!
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???
Burning worlds in the skies.
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With that, it would be interesting to have a very close knit of duchies who call the, "states" of a federation or something yet they are all different realms. It would be like having 5 senators (rulers) who would speak for their state (realm) and try to coordinate this and that. Perhaps very effective military wise as 5 realms would have 5 recruiting centers..
Anyways, back on topic! Just threaten them and beat them up a bit until they agree to more satisfying terms ;D
Thats what Madina already is... but just not with 5 capitals, just one.
Governors(dukes) have full sovereignty over there duchy, the being part of Madina is all about swearing to the Constitution which is everything.
The Rebels defied the Constitution and now made them selves an absolute monarchy.
Twainville could be a nice place for them to sod off to.
lots of food production that will all be sold to the Republic as 'absolute' monopoly. ;)
yeay, long live capitalism!
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Why does SA have to invade all posts in the Dwilight section? :p Astroism is no real issue in the south...
We're not the ones who keep bringing it up. I think it's the 800 pound gorilla in the room thing. Hard to avoid.
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It's a bit strange though because there is almost no chance that SA would ever affect Madina and that new A-realm.
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It's a bit strange though because there is almost no chance that SA would ever affect Madina and that new A-realm.
What if they converted the Duke of Madina and some of the other lords? SA Uprising in Madina then maybe?
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Very unlikely. One city won't survive if the rest of the realm is against the religion, which they appear to be. Also, given Madina's track record, if the duke of Madina gets converted, they might very well (rogue) his city again. ;D
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Very unlikely. One city won't survive if the rest of the realm is against the religion, which they appear to be. Also, given Madina's track record, if the duke of Madina gets converted, they might very well (rogue) his city again. ;D
Haha, that was a very odd and funny day when I got that message. I wonder if this is how they will now always loophole around their Constitution :D
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Nosferatus, I hear from Aurvandil that they will able to match Madina's strength soon. So how are the new developments in the Madina - Aurvandil war? Already talking about peace, or can we expect Madina to start sieging Candiels soon? Also, what do you think of the rurel title; 'High Sovereign'. That clearly states independence if you ask me.
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I am not sure, but Aurvendil will not be able to successfully siege Towerfatmilak.
Madina is dealing with monsters, and so is aurvendil, half of aurvendils nobles are wounded now.
It will take some time for both parties to actually engage in assault.
There was an army ready in the beginning, but we decided to attack the monsters first.
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Why would Aurvandil attack? Basically nothing to gain for them, and I assume they'll need everything they have for defensive purposes.
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Maybe because they believe the best offense is the best defense? ;)
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And because Madina is a sad excuse for a realm?
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And because Madina is a sad excuse for a realm?
Our mum said we're awesome :(
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And because Madina is a sad excuse for a realm?
obviously out of self preservation, civil war is us or them, one of the two survives. the other perishes.
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obviously out of self preservation, civil war is us or them, one of the two survives. the other perishes.
Really? Someone should probably tell north and south Korea to flip a coin then.
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Or Taiwan and China...
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yeah, sometimes it takes very long. :P
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And because Madina is a sad excuse for a realm?
Madina has been isolated on their own island. Many not as interesting as the northern realm, and causes nobles to leave in their search for adventure? With that said, I believe all the action in the south might eventually profit Madina.
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or make it pay...
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Only time will tell. ;)
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news flash: Madina attacked by 10K cs of monsters! we just defeated the monsters in Panabuk and luganun just to discover another 10K Cs in Panabuk....
I wonder if we can ever beat that amount of monsters at this moment....
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What on earth.. So if you lose a region, monsters crawl out from the ground?
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No, monsters don't pop out of the earth. Little monsters are born from big monsters, usually. That's undead you're thinking, those crawl out of the ground. Well, unless you meant mole monsters or other subterranean monsters.
In terms of game mechanics, just losing a region shouldn't make too much of a difference in monster spawning. It seems like every region has different spawning rates, and maybe (rogue) regions have a slight increase to this rate. However, this sounds a bit off.
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In winter, I'm pretty sure civilized regions don't spawn monsters at all. In summer/autumn I seem to remember them spawning in developed regions, but the spawn rate in rogue regions seems to be astronomically higher than in claimed regions.
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yes i think it has to do with the fact that the isle is mostly rogue now...
However i've never seen 10K rogue before(not counting beluatera) even on dwilight.
I am not sure if Madina is ever capable of defeating such force, but perhaps they disperse so we can attack the group one by one.
Right now there divided in groups.
Also the groups eems to conist of monsters and undead combined.
We will have to wait till those 5 groups devide them selves.
The strange thing about this is that we just defeated two monsters spawns in Luganun and Panabuk and only a turn or two later 5 new groups apear in one region.
This MUST be 'GM' interference, they hate us sooo much! :P ow and there is probably a gm playing in candiels!
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Sounds like you guys are starting experience what other realms have been going through for months now without end... 10k is a large horde, but nowhere is it abnormal.
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We see hordes that size in the northwest on a semi-regular basis. That massive area of rogue regions past Gaston is one huge monster breeding ground.
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This MUST be 'GM' interference, they hate us sooo much! :P ow and there is probably a gm playing in candiels!
No, no, silly. Tom plays in Madina! He clearly gave us loads of rogue forces so we can increase the training on our forces easily, then we can walk into Candiels and take it from their untrained men :D
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My limited understanding of the monster situation is this: Estates have some effect on monsters. I would think that estates set on authority would decrease the # of monsters in the region or at the very least decrease their spawn rate. So more rogue regions does equal more monsters. Monsters tend to gravitate towards regions that have food in them(food for monsters is food and peasants). Rogue regions tend to have 1 population and no food. I believe the monsters will naturally migrate toward the realms since they are a huge food supply in both peasants and food.
I've seen some pretty nightmarish monster hordes in Morek. I always thought Madina and Libero Empire had it easy. LE had to only guard Mt Black against monsters since Morek covered their southern border. Madina was on a big island. That severely decreased the # of monsters they have had to face over the years. I don't recall ever seeing a monster cross water and if they do, most water routes are guarded by walls. So they probably only had to deal with whatever spawned on the island.
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Sounds like you guys are starting experience what other realms have been going through for months now without end... 10k is a large horde, but nowhere is it abnormal.
Odd; in Terran we've never seen 10k monsters. The most is usually 5-6k. Maybe that's because the wildlands between us in Caerwyn is fairly small?
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I think you also have the Zuma thinning them out for you. Every now and then there is a Huge Battle Report of the Zuma fighting the monsters. There must, therefore, be quite a few not-huge-battles between Zuma and monsters, no?
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Asylon was hit a few weeks back by about 10k in our capital for ages. Thulsoma used to get hit by 10k like it was the most normal thing in the world.
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Ugh, I wish I had more time to commit to this plot line at the moment. I'd love to write up a nice big RP about how honour demands the Madinan flag fly over the Candiels duchy once more, stating if they wanted to secede then they should have formally asked for it, paid Madina some compensation and then leave.
All I can muster at the moment is: "buy my food!" :(
Ahh well, maybe I'll be free for the next interesting thing to happen in Madina.....
Food? I'll buy your food. Just ship it to Paisly for 40 gold per unit.
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Madina use to have 10-15K beasts and Monsters regulariy - those disappeared mostly once we got both the isles under control. There IS a bonus to having two very easily defended regions be your choke points. However, due to our almost non-existant noble count they are becoming an issue again.
It's never been unusual to see 5-6K undead or monsters hit any Realm on Dwilight.
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Large regions of course act as HUBs too. The Palm Sea, for instance, _always_ holds rogue forces, with thousands of CS passing through every week or so. Taming the region would probably requie securing all regions around it :p
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So how is this conflict going? Aurvandil is still standing, despite Nosferatus confident approach... Fissoa had one noble coming over from Aurvandil though, the beginning of the end?
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Large regions of course act as HUBs too. The Palm Sea, for instance, _always_ holds rogue forces, with thousands of CS passing through every week or so. Taming the region would probably requie securing all regions around it :p
Bah, that's the wimpy way. If you want to do it right you'll march your army into the Palm Sea, set up your defenses, and play King of the Hill. Last one in the region wins!
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Madina is making peaceful overtones to SA. I find that interesting. That and they specifically mentioned how they didn't like Allison. Which is good. I spent a lot of time making Allison hated by as many people as possible.
Looks like SA might get a presence in Madina. Ugh! Damn heathens are stealing all my fun. I might have to transfer my rage to Auvrindale.
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Madina is making peaceful overtones to SA.
The only reason we went to war was because the rebels led us that way before they split off, so we figured it's time to change that back to "we don't really care about you" :P
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Auvrindale.
Amazing how many variants that name has spawned ... I tend to stick with Aurvandil (checking if that's correct now would be cheating :))
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You don't get to just declare war on our church, say bad stuff and expect it to go back to status-quo by saying "oops, we didn't mean it"
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In this case, we're making peaceful attempts with Morek cause the player of von Genf actually did quite well, and managed to impress Abbot and by proxy Vallyn. Also it turns out there may be a few nobles who sympathize with SA and kept their mouths shut when the others were around.
Throw in Madina being threatened by Barca, Terran, D'Hara, Aurvandil, and Fissoa. . .and well. We might have a few positions in our roster of friends opening up :)
We still don't like Allison ;) But with von Genf's actions we can discount Allison as being a one off - and that SA is better represented by von Genf and others.
We wouldn't be taking this step, but Morek contacted us, and sent us an Ambassador looking for peace. Vallyn might like war, but he knows full well marching past Paisly with an army is foolish. (700 miles from the Capital? ugh, morale just plummets after that).
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You don't get to just declare war on our church, say bad stuff and expect it to go back to status-quo by saying "oops, we didn't mean it"
Did Florence declare war against the 'church'?
You also know she appointed all the libero rebels to lord positions in candiels, let it seceed and joined them imediantly?
You also know that in Madina even war declarations can be made by every single landowner, the Grand dodge just opens the window for there is no game mechanics for that yet?
And also, Madina is weird, don't always take them serious as a realm, there just a bunch of liberals competing with each other :P
In this case, we're making peaceful attempts with Morek cause the player of von Genf actually did quite well, and managed to impress Abbot and by proxy Vallyn. Also it turns out there may be a few nobles who sympathize with SA and kept their mouths shut when the others were around.
Throw in Madina being threatened by Barca, Terran, D'Hara, Aurvandil, and Fissoa. . .and well. We might have a few positions in our roster of friends opening up :)
We still don't like Allison ;) But with von Genf's actions we can discount Allison as being a one off - and that SA is better represented by von Genf and others.
We wouldn't be taking this step, but Morek contacted us, and sent us an Ambassador looking for peace. Vallyn might like war, but he knows full well marching past Paisly with an army is foolish. (700 miles from the Capital? ugh, morale just plummets after that).
Madinas are shocked for life after those diplomatic treats, the unity in the south can be trown out of the window now, or atleast for Madina.
Its not a smart strategy of them if they seek to unite the south without destroying Madina.
And it seems they seek to unite the south WITH Madina.
Madina feels betrayed and probably will barley trust a southerner again.
Pierre came along and helped us greatly while our so called 'brothers' stood by and in numerous occasions sucsesful evaded any possible help towards the republic after gladly accepting there help before.
Its a natural movement of Madina to shift its attention north in the search for friends.(where so lonely :P)
I think that is something all these nations would have seen coming from here recent actions.
So how is this conflict going? Aurvandil is still standing, despite Nosferatus confident approach... Fissoa had one noble coming over from Aurvandil though, the beginning of the end?
It depends what you call standing.
If i support road kill by two branches so it appears standing up would you say the animal is standing?
I'd say it still looks like a bloody mess. :P
(and no, i have no particle experience with that, in case your wondering...)
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Did Florence declare war against the 'church'?
Yes, pretty much. Have you seen the charter for the League of Free Nations or whatever it's called? She also didn't pull any punches when she announced the war to the rulers of Dwilight - it was a little, ah, incendiary.
I'm sure SA will probably embrace Madina though, Allison not withstanding. The leadership of the Church is generally only too happy to accept converts, whatever their past attitudes, and opening up a whole new realm to SA would be seen as a major accomplishment, especially one so far to the south where we historically have almost no influence at all. It will also only help your cause to point out all those things you mentioned about Florence and Aurvandil IC ;).
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(...something about how it was everyone else's fault...)
Madina declared war, so Madina has to make good on it. The fact that it was "the previous ruler" isn't worth squat. Speaking in an IC sense, of course. Madina's ruler did not stand up and say "I, Florence Endellion, personally declare war on Sanguis Astroism. I am doing this all on my own, and the realm of Madina has nothing to do with it. It's all me, personally. I will fight them myself, without any backing from the Republic. It's just me. Honest." The ruler speaks for the realm, especially once the ruler goes to the diplomacy screen and clicks the War button. That's the game announces "Madina has declared war on Astrum!" and not "Florence Endellion has declared war against Astrum!"
You can try to claim anything you want. But don't be surprised when not a single person outside Madina buys into it.
And don't forget: Game mechanics *always* trump RP. No matter what RP line you write, and how you try to finagle things, if the game says it happened, then that's how it happened.
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Actually, we're going under the idea that both the Dukes, the Lord Admiral, Lord Purser, and Grand Doge all endorsed the war - however, they're all now part of Aurvandil.
Sure our Realm declared war, but those in charge are now at war with Madina :) And we have a new rulership who is more than willing to seek peace. Especially given that it was Morek who sought peace with us - they offered the olive branch, I'm just gladly leading us in the direction of peace with the North.
Given the words so far looks like Madina might have a few lords ready to convert already - i'm sure SA is getting amused by this. Allison, not so much :D
Regardless, this has more to do with our need to focus on Aurvandil - we're not interested in war with them and we're more than happy to kill those who said we hate SA - heck, we'll even destroy their Realm if it makes SA happy ;) Any excuse to wipe Aurvandil off the map. . .
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Throw in Madina being threatened by Barca, Terran, D'Hara, Aurvandil, and Fissoa. . .and well. We might have a few positions in our roster of friends opening up :)
This could easily backfire if Madina makes itself look like a potential threat to Southern sovereignty.
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If they convert, the stars will protect them. ;)
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If they convert, the stars will protect them. ;)
The stars are far and busy.
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An SA Madina would make internal Terran politics very, very interesting, as we kind of hate Madina by and large. But, if it was SA supported, then foreign policy would become much, much more political.
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An SA Madina would make internal Terran politics very, very interesting, as we kind of hate Madina by and large. But, if it was SA supported, then foreign policy would become much, much more political.
Which would make it in others' interests to prevent such a thing from being allowed to happen in the first place.
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Which would make it in others' interests to prevent such a thing from being allowed to happen in the first place.
Which is why things are so much easier in PeL, we can just ignore the rest of the continent and concentrate on our many internal factions with no real downside :) Well except for our constant need to try and provoke something with Fissoa.
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The stars are far and busy.
True, for now. What Caerwyn did has changed a lot of things though. Don't be surprised to see the Church move away from its previous isolationism and become significantly more proactive in confronting those who work against it.
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Which would make it in others' interests to prevent such a thing from being allowed to happen in the first place.
An SA Madina is a long way off, but a Madina playing nice with SA? That's more probable.
I'd rather not see us at war with every Realm if the Aurvandil peace talks fail.
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Which is why things are so much easier in PeL, we can just ignore the rest of the continent and concentrate on our many internal factions with no real downside :) Well except for our constant need to try and provoke something with Fissoa.
Oh, that's easier than you may think. Phonos is more than capable of provoking trouble on his own. :P
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Did Florence declare war against the 'church'?
You also know she appointed all the libero rebels to lord positions in candiels, let it seceed and joined them imediantly?
Yeah, no planned plot there. That Sage let Madina city rebel and joined the rebels after that is also a coincidence. And people find it strange we from Madina want our city and lands back.....
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Yeah, no planned plot there. That Sage let Madina city rebel and joined the rebels after that is also a coincidence. And people find it strange we from Madina want our city and lands back.....
I like how the rhetoric has changed from "Madina's other lords are refusing to sell food to Sage" to "Sage let the city rebel". Sage had a buy price of 75 gold per 100 bushels, it was the other nobles of Madina who wanted him gone for quite a long time.
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Madina seems to like to change their story a lot. Egamma's point is one example.
Another is how they're "threatened" by their southern neighbors and have no friends in the region. Ignoring the fact that the reasons D'hara and Terran are so hostile is due to all those raids when those realms were to young to defend themselves.
Well the victims have grown up and now they seek retribution on their old bully. Don't act so surprised :)
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Oh, that's easier than you may think. Phonos Amaury is more than capable of provoking trouble on his own. :P
Lucky you have me around to fix typos. ;)
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Laurens was just wrong because she hasn't been in Madina long (at least, I don't think so) and that's what we say in character.
Out of character, the real IC reason was because we didn't like the way he was acting so we forced him out - it's just a nice little secret between a few Lords who could get rid of him. So if you hear in character that he was forced out, someone has been 'lies' :P
Another is how they're "threatened" by their southern neighbors and have no friends in the region. Ignoring the fact that the reasons D'hara and Terran are so hostile is due to all those raids when those realms were to young to defend themselves.
Raid? What raid? Those were tea parties! You were invited, people got drunk, things got out of hand!
But yeah, Madina is in a teeny bit of trouble right now. Currently debating our options, so stay tuned, folks!
OOC, the only options I can see for us is to give in. Everyone hostile is too close to Madina for us to be defiant and say "no, we want Candiels back". The northern theocracies are too far away and probably don't care about Madina to help it. So that leaves the Lurians, who can't really help much.
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Who cares about the Lurians? ::)
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Who cares about the Lurians? ::)
Now we're in trouble: Madinans xD
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Raid? What raid? Those were tea parties! You were invited, people got drunk, things got out of hand!
Lol
Honestly if you're any indication of how funny and well spirited the Madinans are (and I suspect you may be) my ooc bias may allow my character to be alright with reconciling with the Madina. Especially since many important people now in Terran were not around for the days of the raid but rather hear about the "atrocities committed" from the older characters.
But Madina must make the first move in any potential reconciliation and it has to be more than simply saying other people were in control during those periods. With the new and improved relations with Morek you could use SA as a channel since there is a powerful SA bloc in Terran that is respected, but using solely your new association with SA will likely be polarizing and do more harm than good. So be creative ;)
Also D'hara will be a much much tougher sell and considering our close relations with them you'll almost certainly have to woo us simultaneously lol
I don't even know why I'm telling you this, if my character starts not to hate Madina, who will be left to hate on??
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Madina seems to like to change their story a lot. Egamma's point is one example.
Another is how they're "threatened" by their southern neighbors and have no friends in the region. Ignoring the fact that the reasons D'hara and Terran are so hostile is due to all those raids when those realms were to young to defend themselves.
Well the victims have grown up and now they seek retribution on their old bully. Don't act so surprised :)
The fact that Madina still refuses to promise not to go to war to "reclaim" D'Hara's current capital, Paisly, indeed doesn't work in their favour.
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The fact that Madina still refuses to promise not to go to war to "reclaim" D'Hara's current capital, Paisly, indeed doesn't work in their favour.
Lies. That idea went the way of Nightlings characters - the last one who left just after the Rebellion. Especially since our Capital in in the Tower now - Madina is barely close enough for us to reasonably hold onto, never mind Paisly.
Though, lets be honest - back in the day it was the only excuse for a good war we got :D
I doubt anyone left in Madina cares about Paisly as anything except a wonderful place to sell our food :) (plus I'm sure Halicos would have a FIT if we tried to take away his trade route. Dude controls a lot of the food trade in Madina, no doubt hes got some influence there.)
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Lies. That idea went the way of Nightlings characters - the last one who left just after the Rebellion. Especially since our Capital in in the Tower now - Madina is barely close enough for us to reasonably hold onto, never mind Paisly.
Though, lets be honest - back in the day it was the only excuse for a good war we got :D
I doubt anyone left in Madina cares about Paisly as anything except a wonderful place to sell our food :) (plus I'm sure Halicos would have a FIT if we tried to take away his trade route. Dude controls a lot of the food trade in Madina, no doubt hes got some influence there.)
When I assumed command of D'Hara, not so long ago, Madina would not accept a peace treaty that excluded that claim from being used as a causus belli. They refused. I have yet to be given any word that this stance has changed, especially since the one who refused is still part of Madina.
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Well, as you may have noticed Vallyn is a little more. . .practical. Paisly? It was a good claim. . .when it rebelled years ago. Now? Well. . .now I suppose I can use that claim as a bargaining tool.
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Well, as you may have noticed Vallyn is a little more. . .practical. Paisly? It was a good claim. . .when it rebelled years ago. Now? Well. . .now I suppose I can use that claim as a bargaining tool.
Indeed, but he didn't really reach out to D'Hara for better relations, either, so one has to assume that little has changed in these regards.
D'Hara doesn't accept the claim, nor do any other realm in the region as far as I know, and Madina would be hard-pressed to try to make use of it. But for as long as they don't completely reject it, D'Hara-Madina relations can only improve to a certain extent. D'Hara doesn't fear Madina anymore, but it still remembers the hardships of war and is not interested in getting into another fight.
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Indeed, but he didn't really reach out to D'Hara for better relations, either, so one has to assume that little has changed in these regards.
D'Hara doesn't accept the claim, nor do any other realm in the region as far as I know, and Madina would be hard-pressed to try to make use of it. But for as long as they don't completely reject it, D'Hara-Madina relations can only improve to a certain extent. D'Hara doesn't fear Madina anymore, but it still remembers the hardships of war and is not interested in getting into another fight.
This is mostly because I don't believe many of the former Doges or Dogess's actively consulted with the Grand Council, as they should be. I wasn't even AWARE Paisly was still on the table OOC, much less IC. I thought we gave that claim up when it became obvious we were going to have issues holding past Candiels Fields. Not that Vallyn's keen on improving relations too much, you DID subtly imply you'd send an army into Madina to "enforce the peace".
Oh, heck, D'Hara never accepted that claim to START with, I think that's why we went to war ;) (though really, Madina hold Paisly? That's tough to do with enough nobles, never mind the lack of them these days). Oh, indeed, I think there's too many old feelings getting in the way of anything more than an uneasy peace - kinda like what we have now. Which I'm rather enjoying.
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Laurens was just wrong because she hasn't been in Madina long (at least, I don't think so) and that's what we say in character.
A char of Laurens was the co-creator of Madina and Laurens is a he 8)
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Terran and D'Hara have quite long memories. We have certainly not forgitting Nightling's escapades involving Paisly. Moreover, given that Terran regards Paisly as a tier-1 security interest, the slightest threat to it is like a threat on our own borders. Without Paisly controlled by a close ally of Terran, our entire realm would be destabilized. Until Madina can make a credible guarantee of Paisly's safety, I doubt Terran could be convinced to trust Madina very far at all.
There are quite a few characters left in Terran who remember the fighting in Paisly quite vividly, and are still bitter about it, and still dislike Madina over that issue, and still want revenge for the burning of our southern rurals.
Though, given the pinch for food in Maroccidens, Madina could deploy "food diplomacy" to great effect if they chose. Alongside a categorical rejection of claims on Paisly. Perhaps also accompanied by a constitutional change that will make Madina more reliable and understandable to its neighbors?
Honestly, that's one of the biggest reason my character doesn't even bother befriending Madina: because there's no way to know who is worth talking to. Your power structure is so completely mangled and confused that there's no way for anyone outside to know if the person we're talking to has any real authority, and nobody has the patience to individually court all of Madina's lords.
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Oh, we haven't forgotten in Madina either. Don't worry. As for Nightling - I suspect she's a sore spot, especially since her brother/sibling (whoever it was the player repaced her with) ran off with a substantial amount of gold and goods from Madina just after the Rebellion. However, Paisly is safe in the sense that it's hard to assault :D
Oh, yes, the burning of your Southern Rurals. That WAS rather fun. . .I seriously think that's the last time there was a war in the South.
Indeed, the food issue is becoming rather interesting. Given the number of realms requesting food it seems to be a massive issue in the South.
As for our wonderfully convoluted system of government - the Doge is a representative for everyone, if it's worth the Republics time it really is him who has do to the courting (or at least, convince him it's worth the time). Otherwise the Dukes have to convince their Lords of the usefulness of the matter. Really it's just like any other Realm - except, that if we want to get something done we have to convince the Lords. Just provide a reasonably decent motive, and usually threats are the way (though, money in Madina does lend ears).
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I must agree with Madina's government. Last time I spoke to them about that claim on Paisly, the ruler was like "Well, it's everyone's right to hold claims, and the government can't deny it, so you'd have to convince the person in question to drop the claim or we can't otherwise promise not to go to war to enforce it".
Which reminded me of the days of the war. "Oh, I don't really want to fight you, but my lords do, so I can't stop them."
Yea, that was rather annoying. Our ties with Verdis Elementum is what got us out of that war, as once Caerwyn backed off Madina had little choice. Madina has never shown any desire to build a true peace with us, really.
The isles have always favoured stronger rulers. One guy even left the realm completely when the realm switched to a republic, and a few others grumbled. Needless to say, I have great autonomy in my reign.
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Its really an excellent system honestly - the Lords can pressure the Dukes, the Dukes can pressure the Ruler. It's not a Top-down effect, of nobles being told what they are doing. It's the Lords (and their knights) telling the Dukes and Rulers what they want to have happen.
The problem is of course, a good ruler is required in this system, one who can work with the Dukes/Lords and convince them that things are worthwhile.
Well - really now, getting Caerwyn to back off was the important thing. Madina wasn't REALLY the threat at all, we can only hit Paisly so many times . . . getting Caerwyn on your side was the back breaker, and an excellent diplomatic move.
Lets be honest as well, if we had a good peace with Terran and D'Hara, like we do with Fissoa. . . well. We'd never have anyone to fight. Ever. Terran's about as far north as we can go, even with Mercenary troop settings.
Much better to have uneasy peace with D'Hara and Terran, knowing that a diplomatic folly on either side could end them up in another war. But, speaking more bluntly, none of our Realms have the character count to conduct an extended war. It was tough to do when we had 35-40 nobles, but at 15? We'll just sit in Madina or the Tower and let you come to us thanks.
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If Terran and D'Hara wanted to, we could have 4-6,000 CS attacking Madina from either side in the spring. And we could do that two or three times over the course of the summer and autumn as well.
Madina's reach may be quite limited, but Terran and D'Hara together have, in their immediate backyards, fielded 10,000 CS together, and regularly deploy smaller but still significant detachments. Just this week Terran, D'Hara, and Barca had about 6,000 or 7,000 CS clearing out Barca's lands, and many of those troops have been deployed at long range for several weeks: i.e. could have been attacking Tower Fatmilak.
A dubiously friendly Madina is, however, quite entertaining. I enjoy having pirates in the south.
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It's quite something when 10000 CS mobile between two realms is considered formidable by any means.
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Heh, by other continents' standards (or those of other parts of Dwilight) that is indeed a small force.
But, frankly, when the entire combined CS of the belligerents in the Madinan Civil War is only about 11,000 CS, Terran and D'Hara having deployable armies of that size is significant.
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True, but don't underestimate how tough it is to hit Madina - when we attacked Paisly we needed nigh 15K to break their defense t - just because the trip is so awkwardly long (70-80 hours for a unit with a Siege Engine). Tower Fatmilak is the better choice to hit, especially given that most of the lands along the coast are now colonized.
But again, you'll need SE to do it which means your nobles have a long, slow journey. And that leaves Barca and other regions open to being destroyed by rogue spawns.
Could Terran and D'Hara do it? Of course. . . are there significant risks involved? Definately. Though to be honest, I'm working my hardest to avoid that at the moment. We just got Madina back, we're not really in any state to fight a war.
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True, but don't underestimate how tough it is to hit Madina - when we attacked Paisly we needed nigh 15K to break their defense t - just because the trip is so awkwardly long (70-80 hours for a unit with a Siege Engine). Tower Fatmilak is the better choice to hit, especially given that most of the lands along the coast are now colonized.
But again, you'll need SE to do it which means your nobles have a long, slow journey. And that leaves Barca and other regions open to being destroyed by rogue spawns.
Could Terran and D'Hara do it? Of course. . . are there significant risks involved? Definately. Though to be honest, I'm working my hardest to avoid that at the moment. We just got Madina back, we're not really in any state to fight a war.
Best factor against it, trying to co-ordinate a force to arrive at the same time over those kind of distances. Most realms struggle to land their force on a three turn move already.
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Best factor against it, trying to co-ordinate a force to arrive at the same time over those kind of distances. Most realms struggle to land their force on a three turn move already.
Actually the most fun part is giving SMA-appropriate orders while coordinating a 8-10 turn move. Nevermind that whoever you're attacking can see you from about 5 turns out -.- You KNOW there is no surprise element going to help you out.
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Best factor against it, trying to co-ordinate a force to arrive at the same time over those kind of distances. Most realms struggle to land their force on a three turn move already.
The "Don't arrive this turn" button is very helpful with that. Given that, *no one* should ever mess up a two-turn move. And probably not a three-turn move, either. When you get longer than that, all bets are off. The varied hours people get, plus the travel bonuses and delays, throw off most efforts at detailed planning.
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Ahhhh, this is by far my singular, most favourite peace of diplomacy I've done in a while.
Letter from Mendicant Anhangar
What commentary is needed?
You either desire peace, or you don't.
Mendicant Anhangar
High Sovereign of Aurvandil, Duke of Candiels
Duke:
You and your people are traitors, the only peace you will have with us is one negotiated by your allies.
Vallyn Rothach
Grand Doge of Madina, Marshal of the Madina Republican Army
Straight forward, and to the point. Do we want peace. . .pft. Where's the fun in that? :( If Terran and D'Hara would let us we'd be in Candiels already!
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Ahhhh, this is by far my singular, most favourite peace of diplomacy I've done in a while.
Straight forward, and to the point. Do we want peace. . .pft. Where's the fun in that? :( If Terran and D'Hara would let us we'd be in Candiels already!
He overestimates how far his "allies" are willing to go for his cause, too...
I'll let Marche have a say in how the situation evolves, though. He'll be taking over tonight, I believe.
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It'll be nice to finally have Candiels back, give us a place to plonk all of those excess nobles we've gained in the last couple of days :)
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I'm finding this Madinan Civil War to be phenomenally entertaining, actually. Terran's Senate hasn't had this much back-and-forth in a long time, what with major diplomatic events occurring within our federation, on the Asylon/Caerwyn border, the hissy-fit between Luria Nova and Fissoa, the Madinan Civil War, and various other issues. It has been an eventful autumn.
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I'm finding this Madinan Civil War to be phenomenally entertaining, actually. Terran's Senate hasn't had this much back-and-forth in a long time, what with major diplomatic events occurring within our federation, on the Asylon/Caerwyn border, the hissy-fit between Luria Nova and Fissoa, the Madinan Civil War, and various other issues. It has been an eventful autumn.
For us even more, finally someone to really hate.
Don't you guys miss that feeling, of REALLY hating your enemy?
That you just want to put robe around there neck and pull them underneath your boat...
It will also be fun if we don't manage to keelhaul them.
These will be some nasty refugees, where ever they'll go next, they will do this again.
Dwilight is so vast that eventually someone will take em in, IF they manage to escape Madinas wrath that is.
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For us even more, finally someone to really hate.
Don't you guys miss that feeling, of REALLY hating your enemy?
That you just want to put robe around there neck and pull them underneath your boat...
It will also be fun if we don't manage to keelhaul them.
These will be some nasty refugees, where ever they'll go next, they will do this again.
Dwilight is so vast that eventually someone will take em in, IF they manage to escape Madinas wrath that is.
I think Aurvandil might be in more trouble since Shin just got elected ruler!! He's like the most hardass Fissoan nobles when it comes to being medieval I reckon.
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For us even more, finally someone to really hate.
Don't you guys miss that feeling, of REALLY hating your enemy?
That you just want to put robe around there neck and pull them underneath your boat...
It is nice, isn't it? :)
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The "Don't arrive this turn" button is very helpful with that. Given that, *no one* should ever mess up a two-turn move. And probably not a three-turn move, either. When you get longer than that, all bets are off. The varied hours people get, plus the travel bonuses and delays, throw off most efforts at detailed planning.
You'd think so, but you can say, "Arrive at dawn," you can underline it, put it in italics, and repeat it again for good measure (I did all three in the same letter), and people still mess it up. It's like herding cats.
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Indeed, there is a reasonable amount of Nobles that work with some hard lag, and don't log in every turn. Those are hard to work with. :/
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Well. The Madinan Civil War has certainly just seen a major change, what with Fissoa reversing its position. I gotta say, I'm bummed about it, because the alliance to contain Madina was quite entertaining, and the hissy fits across the Candiels Straits are fun to read... I'll be sad if Aurvandil is destroyed.
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Well. The Madinan Civil War has certainly just seen a major change, what with Fissoa reversing its position. I gotta say, I'm bummed about it, because the alliance to contain Madina was quite entertaining, and the hissy fits across the Candiels Straits are fun to read... I'll be sad if Aurvandil is destroyed.
Hmmm...must be fun for the small group of people in the inner circle who get to read them.
as for Aurvandil being destroyed, there may be a bit of delay in that. Seems a certain group of people are counting on a certain "knight" to carry out a certain task, despite that certain knight informing them repeatedly that he is a Lord, resents the fact that they don't acknowledge that, and resents even more being given "orders" like a common soldier.
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Seems a certain group of people are counting on a certain "knight" to carry out a certain task, despite that certain knight informing them repeatedly that he is a Lord, resents the fact that they don't acknowledge that, and resents even more being given "orders" like a common soldier.
Huh?
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Huh?
LOL - not a surprising response, based on the level of communication the Madian council seems to have with one another :-X
Edit: Ah, you aren't in Madina - confused your name with another.
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Heh, not my fault Luan makes stupid orders some days.
And you'll only get Vallyn's respect as a "Lord" if you earn it with him, some title you earned in the Barony - one you were stripped of when you were banned - is hardly going to impress him, especially after his years on the War Islands and forming Madina.
His very particular with titles - he never calls Mendicant anything other than Duke, a clear indication he views Aurvandil nothing but a rogue duchy. Much like he'll call Vens a noble or a Knight, depending on how much respect he feels hes earned.
Get enough, he might even acknowledge you were once a Lord.
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Well. The Madinan Civil War has certainly just seen a major change, what with Fissoa reversing its position. I gotta say, I'm bummed about it, because the alliance to contain Madina was quite entertaining, and the hissy fits across the Candiels Straits are fun to read... I'll be sad if Aurvandil is destroyed.
Blame Aurvandil for sucking at diplomacy so much.
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Heh, not my fault Luan makes stupid orders some days.
And you'll only get Vallyn's respect as a "Lord" if you earn it with him, some title you earned in the Barony - one you were stripped of when you were banned - is hardly going to impress him, especially after his years on the War Islands and forming Madina.
His very particular with titles - he never calls Mendicant anything other than Duke, a clear indication he views Aurvandil nothing but a rogue duchy. Much like he'll call Vens a noble or a Knight, depending on how much respect he feels hes earned.
Get enough, he might even acknowledge you were once a Lord.
what will happen sooner is, Jens'll will get tired of being insulted and ignored and find a new realm. I've heard rumors there are other places that need more nobles.
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*cough*lurianova*cough*
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*cough*lurianova*cough*
You wouldn't mean the lovely city of Askileon, would you? The one that is at the end of this interesting journey:
"Tower Fatmilak - Fatmilak - Bol - Lugagun - Madina Gardens - Madina - Fissoa - Fissoa Fields - Munawai - Mangai - Nuas - Maf - Irvington - Cadier - Outer Giask - Giask - Askileon
Taking this route, it would take you 188 hours, or 29 turns, to cover the total distance of 2030 miles, assuming no travel delays."
Why, Jens hadn't given any thought to that ;)
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You wouldn't mean the lovely city of Askileon, would you? The one that is at the end of this interesting journey:
"Tower Fatmilak - Fatmilak - Bol - Lugagun - Madina Gardens - Madina - Fissoa - Fissoa Fields - Munawai - Mangai - Nuas - Maf - Irvington - Cadier - Outer Giask - Giask - Askileon
Taking this route, it would take you 188 hours, or 29 turns, to cover the total distance of 2030 miles, assuming no travel delays."
Why, Jens hadn't given any thought to that ;)
No, Nova Luria has Giask as the capital. Pian En Luries has Askileon as the capital
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Heh, not my fault Luan makes stupid orders some days.
And you'll only get Vallyn's respect as a "Lord" if you earn it with him, some title you earned in the Barony - one you were stripped of when you were banned - is hardly going to impress him, especially after his years on the War Islands and forming Madina.
His very particular with titles - he never calls Mendicant anything other than Duke, a clear indication he views Aurvandil nothing but a rogue duchy. Much like he'll call Vens a noble or a Knight, depending on how much respect he feels hes earned.
Get enough, he might even acknowledge you were once a Lord.
It's not just Vallyn, it is the entire realm (which seems to be about 3 and 1/2 characters)
And it's not just the title issue, it is the whole red-faced, "YOU WERE ORDERED TO DO X, NOW GET BACK IN LINE" bull-!@#$. I thought we cleared up the eff-ing drill sergeant complex in the game 3-4 years ago?
Add to that the fact that throughout these issues of title and miscommunication among the council, no one has ever replied to anything he has ever sent, gives me the feeling that the only reason I'm in the realm is to add more soldiers and prop up the estates.
I had to change the way I play Jens to fit into Dwilight's SMA, and I certainly didn't do it so I be a foot-soldier in one of the old Sirion armies :P
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It's not just Vallyn, it is the entire realm (which seems to be about 3 and 1/2 characters)
And it's not just the title issue, it is the whole red-faced, "YOU WERE ORDERED TO DO X, NOW GET BACK IN LINE" bull-!@#$. I thought we cleared up the eff-ing drill sergeant complex in the game 3-4 years ago?
Add to that the fact that throughout these issues of title and miscommunication among the council, no one has ever replied to anything he has ever sent, gives me the feeling that the only reason I'm in the realm is to add more soldiers and prop up the estates.
I had to change the way I play Jens to fit into Dwilight's SMA, and I certainly didn't do it so I be a foot-soldier in one of the old Sirion armies :P
There is nothing against the SMA in playing a bossy character that orders around everyone else though.
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There is nothing against the SMA in playing a bossy character that orders around everyone else though.
I prefer scorning and making nobles that don't follow orders feel shameful. I don't use cap locks to yell at people in my orders myself.
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There is nothing against the SMA in playing a bossy character that orders around everyone else though.
no, but there's an SMA way of being bossy.
They can RP anyway they like, but I don't have to stay there is all. "The are other realms to try", as the saying goes.
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no, but there's an SMA way of being bossy.
They can RP anyway they like, but I don't have to stay there is all. "The are other realms to try", as the saying goes.
Well the marshal in PeL can be quite bossy, though I don't think he has been recently.
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Well the marshal in PeL can be quite bossy, though I don't think he has been recently.
as I said, "bossy" isn't the issue. Just address him as you would a medieval Lord or knight when you do so. otherwise, I may as well go play "Combat Commander", or find a wealthier realm.
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as I said, "bossy" isn't the issue. Just address him as you would a medieval Lord or knight when you do so. otherwise, I may as well go play "Combat Commander", or find a wealthier realm.
Depending on the exact time period and country, low ranking Lords and Knights didn't get a whole heap of actual respect.
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Depending on the exact time period and country, low ranking Lords and Knights didn't get a whole heap of actual respect.
Well, the exact time period and country in this case is Now and Dwilight, and the respect you give ought to reflect how badly you want nobles to stick around.
Call it SMA, or call it Jens' pride, but if you do the drill sergeant bit with him he'll simply walk away.
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Thing is, we aren't low-ranking nobles. We are the cream of the crop, the alpha dogs, the very top of the pyramid. The fact we're all player-controlled characters means we're elevated above the minor (NPC) nobility.
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Well, the exact time period and country in this case is Now and Dwilight, and the respect you give ought to reflect how badly you want nobles to stick around.
Call it SMA, or call it Jens' pride, but if you do the drill sergeant bit with him he'll simply walk away.
In this case it's a young noble coming in, demanding to be called a "Lord", despite the fact he was banned and therefore stripped of his title. For an old soldier like Vallyn, better believe that doesn't sit well with him. Compare his Prestige and Honour to yours - he's one of the most prestigious and honourable nobles on the island, as are several other of the Madinan Grand Council.
Kill a few things, make a name for yourself in Madina and show yourself to be a callous, hearty warrior from the Barony and well, Vallyn (along with Abbot and Halicos) might just like you quite a bit. But as it stands now Vallyn has been working towards killing Aurvandil for a while, and he's got little patience for ANYONE screwing that up.
In an OOC fashion I actually like Jens, he's pretty amusing.
As for ignoring your messages - we've made several larger Realm wide messages based off of comments you have made, I agree sometimes it gets a bit quiet and we need to keep folks updated on how things are going. Unfortunately 90% of our discussions are in the Grand Council since those are the most active players. Makes it hard to include everyone -.- Outside of the daily orders or updates on political stuff.
Not that I've got a political related message in nearly a week. . .so much for all the negotiating we've been doing lately.
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If as a player you are not enjoying the way you are being treated, find some other realm. It is not a problem having a mistreated noble character, but an annoyed player is a sign that there is a problem, either in the way the player is taking IC stuff, or in the way that IC stuff is being handled by the rest.
The easiest solution: try a change of IC actions, try some IC reactions to the treatment, and if nothing works, move to another realm where you feel better treated.
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Or wait till Madina turns back to normal after the state of emergency is lifted.
There is a huge difference between emergency state and normal state of Madina
Where now you basically have no right and other wise you'd have the most rights any other realm would offer.
But if your just looking to get acknowledged as a lord while your not, then in no state will you find that probably in any realm...
Especialy on Dwilight and especially in Madina.
The moto its self says it: "Any may seek their fortune here, but as with the pirates of old, only the bravest and most hearty of nobles find it."
What ever you left at home, you will have to re earn it here.
The wild is only fit for some, not everyone.
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I think I've already clarified that there is more to it than that.
The problems in Madina seem to be similar to those in this thread - you make an effort to explain things clearly, but they are not carefully read or acknowledged.
Abbott is as guilty as any others - Jens has followed "orders" to a "T" and still gets publically rebuked and a letter from Abbott warning him "but that doesn't mean your excluded from the rest and allowed to ignore the orders your brothers do follow. " Still hasn't acknowledged Jens' response.
This is all IC, guys, but you are being incredibly insulting toward Jens - I would have difficulty rp-ing him as NOT being pissed off.
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I pretty much agree with everything Phellan said. Halicos is the second most honourable noble on the island, something he takes great pride in and rarely speaks with nobles below his station (it was rather difficult playing as the Lord Admiral since almost everyone was below his station :P). If Jens proves himself, you'll find Halicos becomes very friendly, most likely because he'll be someone to sell food to. I see no harm in saying that Jens already has Halicos' vote for Duke of Candiels when we get it back because he has proved himself, it's just Halicos can't tell him that.
There is definitely the issue of how active Madina seems to knights of the realm and I'll agree that something needs to be done, I'm just not sure what. With the way Madina is, I think the best thing would be for knights to bug their Lords requesting information from them. At the moment, power is spread amongst the Lords with each holding various amounts of sway in the Council. We may requests of those higher up to do things, e.g. Dukes ask for permission to add bits of land to their duchy. I think a natural extension of this is for knights to request information about what's going on - Halicos' knight has had a bit of this with him being sent out to trade with The Zuma, something I think Jens will know nothing about?
If we wish to go down that route, a slight empowering of knights, how would we do it?
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I pretty much agree with everything Phellan said. Halicos is the second most honourable noble on the island, something he takes great pride in and rarely speaks with nobles below his station (it was rather difficult playing as the Lord Admiral since almost everyone was below his station :P). If Jens proves himself, you'll find Halicos becomes very friendly, most likely because he'll be someone to sell food to. I see no harm in saying that Jens already has Halicos' vote for Duke of Candiels when we get it back because he has proved himself, it's just Halicos can't tell him that.
There is definitely the issue of how active Madina seems to knights of the realm and I'll agree that something needs to be done, I'm just not sure what. With the way Madina is, I think the best thing would be for knights to bug their Lords requesting information from them. At the moment, power is spread amongst the Lords with each holding various amounts of sway in the Council. We may requests of those higher up to do things, e.g. Dukes ask for permission to add bits of land to their duchy. I think a natural extension of this is for knights to request information about what's going on - Halicos' knight has had a bit of this with him being sent out to trade with The Zuma, something I think Jens will know nothing about?
If we wish to go down that route, a slight empowering of knights, how would we do it?
that's a good question, and I'll give it some thought.
I want to clarify again - I jumped into this thread in a bit of a joking manner about how Jens was going to start ignoring people who wouldn't call him Lord. OOC, I like Madina fine (minus the drill-sergeant manner of address certain characters use ;) ). I was getting a little frustrated 'cuz I thought Jens was being perfectly clear about things that were bothering him, and being completely ignored.
Maybe the easy answer will just be to relax his personality a little - I had to change it a bit for SMA, maybe went too far in the serious direction.
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Maybe the easy answer will just be to relax his personality a little - I had to change it a bit for SMA, maybe went too far in the serious direction.
I think it was that Jens says he is a Lord, but nobody in Madina has seen any evidence of it. He was a Lord on another continent, not Dwilight. It stands to reason that the histories of other lands have not yet reached Dwilight (new land, etc) so we only have to go off collective memories - if five people arrive from Darka and all say that they used to be mercenaries, it's probably true. But when one noble says "well I was a Lord, so call me Lord", most of us just say "yeah, sure and I'm the Holy Lord Emperor of all Blobsville, a massive continent a long way away from here".
Jens' personality is certainly interesting, if not a little misplaced. If he does get that Lordship, he'll certainly seem a little similar to Halicos in demanding people use his title (I've scared a few new knights with that and I've had to beat it into the current one a bit, but I think it adds to the atmosphere). I'd say keep it up, it's definitely got Jens noticed and it adds some flavour to it.
With regards to the Lord Admiral spouting orders, that's part of Madina's laws. In times of crisis command of everything military reverts to the Lord Admiral. Once we get Candiels back the state of emergency will be lifted and control will go back to the Dukes. Candiels Duke will likely want a few regions adding to his/her duchy, so will order their army to do that. Abbot probably wants the rest of Madina island to be added to his duchy. I'm not sure what Fionn will do, but if Halicos was Duke of The Tower, he'd be renting out The Tower's army to Abbot/Candiels to help add regions to their duchies :D
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I'm not sure what Fionn will do, but if Halicos was Duke of The Tower, he'd be renting out The Tower's army to Abbot/Candiels to help add regions to their duchies :D
LOL, no wonder everyone thinks the Doge has no say in anything.
My only saving grace is that Vallyn has enough prestige and honour for Halicos to work with him ;)
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I think it was that Jens says he is a Lord, but nobody in Madina has seen any evidence of it. He was a Lord on another continent, not Dwilight. It stands to reason that the histories of other lands have not yet reached Dwilight (new land, etc) so we only have to go off collective memories - if five people arrive from Darka and all say that they used to be mercenaries, it's probably true. But when one noble says "well I was a Lord, so call me Lord", most of us just say "yeah, sure and I'm the Holy Lord Emperor of all Blobsville, a massive continent a long way away from here".
Jens' personality is certainly interesting, if not a little misplaced. If he does get that Lordship, he'll certainly seem a little similar to Halicos in demanding people use his title (I've scared a few new knights with that and I've had to beat it into the current one a bit, but I think it adds to the atmosphere). I'd say keep it up, it's definitely got Jens noticed and it adds some flavour to it.
With regards to the Lord Admiral spouting orders, that's part of Madina's laws. In times of crisis command of everything military reverts to the Lord Admiral. Once we get Candiels back the state of emergency will be lifted and control will go back to the Dukes. Candiels Duke will likely want a few regions adding to his/her duchy, so will order their army to do that. Abbot probably wants the rest of Madina island to be added to his duchy. I'm not sure what Fionn will do, but if Halicos was Duke of The Tower, he'd be renting out The Tower's army to Abbot/Candiels to help add regions to their duchies :D
Guys, I don't mean to go on and on, but you really aren't getting the point.
1) Jens is a noble. Nobles don't lie. If he says he is a Lord, you believe he is a lord. It is a deathly insult to imply otherwise. You are fortunate it is Jens and not Ejner, or you would be dueling over it by now.
2) It doesn't matter which person is giving the orders - he is giving an order to a Noble, so he "requests that Sir Jens move his men to X and scout the enemy". He doesn't talk like a drill sergeant addressing a bunch of new recruits. This was true right up until the beginning of the last century, among officers, who were the modern vestige of noble gentlemen.
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1) Jens is a noble. Nobles don't lie. If he says he is a Lord, you believe he is a lord. It is a deathly insult to imply otherwise. You are fortunate it is Jens and not Ejner, or you would be dueling over it by now.
Then you, sir, are deluded :P Loads of characters lie, it's how you get into high up positions in most places. Nobles lie about everything, ranging from slight stretching of the truth (saying they were a Lord of a region when in fact they lived there for a long time) or to blatant lies (realm X has enough troops to destroy realm Y within a day). It's just how things work. If Jens doesn't lie, then that's cool, plenty of people don't lie. Just don't expect people not to be sceptical when a foreigner comes in and starts demanding people call him a Lord. It's like me meeting you on the street and saying I'm head of marketing for Microsoft's UK arm. You've never met me, you have no reason to believe me and something like that is quite sceptical. Some people might believe Jens, but a lot of us don't.
2) It doesn't matter which person is giving the orders - he is giving an order to a Noble, so he "requests that Sir Jens move his men to X and scout the enemy". He doesn't talk like a drill sergeant addressing a bunch of new recruits. This was true right up until the beginning of the last century, among officers, who were the modern vestige of noble gentlemen.
Then ignore them, simple. Orders are simply suggestions on red paper. If you don't want to follow them, make up some RP excuse why you couldn't follow them. This is the RP island, so use your RP skills. I think Halicos has followed about 50% of the orders given out since he's been in Madina (3 and a half years), but excuses can always be found ranging from lies (see above) to actual excuses. Sometimes people don't believe them, but if you have something credible with a little bit of possible evidence then people will usually believe it.
However there are obviously some things that can't be explained away easily, like attacking a city on your own ;)
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Then you, sir, are deluded :P Loads of characters lie, it's how you get into high up positions in most places. Nobles lie about everything, ranging from slight stretching of the truth (saying they were a Lord of a region when in fact they lived there for a long time) or to blatant lies (realm X has enough troops to destroy realm Y within a day). It's just how things work. If Jens doesn't lie, then that's cool, plenty of people don't lie. Just don't expect people not to be sceptical when a foreigner comes in and starts demanding people call him a Lord. It's like me meeting you on the street and saying I'm head of marketing for Microsoft's UK arm. You've never met me, you have no reason to believe me and something like that is quite sceptical. Some people might believe Jens, but a lot of us don't.
Then ignore them, simple. Orders are simply suggestions on red paper. If you don't want to follow them, make up some RP excuse why you couldn't follow them. This is the RP island, so use your RP skills. I think Halicos has followed about 50% of the orders given out since he's been in Madina (3 and a half years), but excuses can always be found ranging from lies (see above) to actual excuses. Sometimes people don't believe them, but if you have something credible with a little bit of possible evidence then people will usually believe it.
However there are obviously some things that can't be explained away easily, like attacking a city on your own ;)
*sigh*
On the surface, Nobles don't lie. To openly imply otherwise is an insult.
It seems that I was right, that no one in the realm actually reads anything. The attack I did was under orders, as was repeatedly explained to the entire realm. The ordering about I'm referring to had nothing to do with Luan.
It is EXCRUCIATINGLY dull to have to keep repeating myself like this, only to find that the reason for it is that the people I'm having a discussion with are too busy writing their answers to actually read what I'm writing.
Thank you for helping me decide whether or not to stay in Madina.
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For those of us not in Madina, could we perhaps be given a better idea of what's going on by seeing an example of "drill sergeant" orders?
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The attack I did was under orders, as was repeatedly explained to the entire realm.
Hmm, I must have missed that. Halicos was off at the tournament recently so I skipped a lot of letters for time, that must have been one of them >.<
For those of us not in Madina, could we perhaps be given a better idea of what's going on by seeing an example of "drill sergeant" orders?
Last orders I got from the military are:
Orders from Luan Agenor (3 days, 5 hours ago)
Message sent to everyone in your realm (17 recipients)
All citizens, knight and Lords, rally in the towers!
Luan Agenor
Lord Admiral of Madina, Baron of Lugagun
I'm sure Jens can give a better example though as he probably has one in mind. The same orders did come in 3 days & 7 hours, and 3 days & 13 hours ago, which looking back at it seems a little much. Like I said above, I must have missed those. Quite scary actually, those orders really don't seem familiar and I definitely wouldn't have put them down as being sent 3 times :S
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*sigh*
On the surface, Nobles don't lie. To openly imply otherwise is an insult.
What a hopelessly romantic opinion of noble etiquette. This seems more in line with renaissance and latter thinking then the truth regarding interactions between medieval nobles.
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Hmm, I must have missed that. Halicos was off at the tournament recently so I skipped a lot of letters for time, that must have been one of them >.<
No, Luan sent him private orders to head into Candiels - which he didn't inform the Council about. Vallyn got pretty irate with Jens, but when Jens informed him (and Luan as well) that the orders were from Luan. . .
Well, Vallyn tore a strip out of Luan in a very pleasantly worded reply that implied he was an idiot if he couldn't deduce that their forces were out in the Field. I don't think I got a reply to it (not that I expected one).
So, he's right - bad case of mismanagement on the Governments part. No blame there, all ours. (erm, Luans? :D haha).
As for "military drill-sergeant style" orders - You don't have to follow orders, that simple. Its always been that way. Usually for orders I give some nice title-style start but then drop into my normal order giving after that.
Mostly I drop nice wishy-washy ways of telling people what to do because half the time they lose the message.
"I would be most grateful if a noble could send a scout and report back on Lugagun to the army"
Or:
"Scout Lugagun and report to the army."
Sure, ones more SMA and polite - but given how active over half the nobles are, the former is MUCH less likely to get an answer.
Personal messages, Realm wide address - those will get lots of fancy wording and 15 or 20min of typing put into them.
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What a hopelessly romantic opinion of noble etiquette. This seems more in line with renaissance and latter thinking then the truth regarding interactions between medieval nobles.
Seems like his place is hardly Madina, land of /pirates/. He needs a place in where explicit liars and dishonorable people are scowled at, a more chivarly-oriented realm. I know the current Luria Nova is one of these (where Tarajist Balewind was basically told "shut up and stop your ignoble brag or you'll get deported", but in an even less flattering way), but I'm sure there are more realms like that out there.
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Terran is a generally very pleasant and fairly active realm to go to, usually with good opportunities for advancement.
Though if you can find a realm that will automatically start calling people titles they don't actually have, please let me know lol.
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It's really simple, guys. I don't understand why you are having so much trouble with this.
If I arrive and tell you I'm a Lord, and you say I'm not, then you are calling me a liar.
In which case, I hope your sword arm is strong and steady.
If I thought Vallyn was the type of character who wouldn't make excuses to avoid a duel, Jens would have changed class and challenged him already.
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No, Luan sent him private orders to head into Candiels - which he didn't inform the Council about. Vallyn got pretty irate with Jens, but when Jens informed him (and Luan as well) that the orders were from Luan. . .
Well, Vallyn tore a strip out of Luan in a very pleasantly worded reply that implied he was an idiot if he couldn't deduce that their forces were out in the Field. I don't think I got a reply to it (not that I expected one).
which you did in private to Luan/or the council.
you publicly humiliated Jens, and then couldn't bother to to even drop him a note about it (nevermind let the realm know Jens was not at fault) when you were corrected on the matter. And you repeatedly infer that he is lying about being a lord.
so why are you having trouble figuring out what the issue is?
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If I arrive and tell you I'm a Lord, and you say I'm not, then you are calling me a liar.
Or just crazy.
Or goofy as hell.
I don't know, by your logic everyone should be allowed to prance around calling themselves the King and anyone who says otherwise deserves a sword in the belly.
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I wonder if you can tell the difference between these two statements?
I am an architect.
I am the Third Son of the Moon King.
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1) Jens is a noble. Nobles don't lie. If he says he is a Lord, you believe he is a lord. It is a deathly insult to imply otherwise. You are fortunate it is Jens and not Ejner, or you would be dueling over it by now.
2) It doesn't matter which person is giving the orders - he is giving an order to a Noble, so he "requests that Sir Jens move his men to X and scout the enemy". He doesn't talk like a drill sergeant addressing a bunch of new recruits. This was true right up until the beginning of the last century, among officers, who were the modern vestige of noble gentlemen.
1) if your character doesn't say lord in sig, he's not a lord.... (otherwise the whole realm would be kings and queens) something about RP not trumping game mechanics?
2) madina didn't use to do that.
my character was royal in madina, so if i stick another one in madina you would think it should be royal.. but of course it can't be, because they don't exist in the same realm at the same time... hmmm. some sort of family tree (inside the game that is...) would be interesting
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It's really simple, guys. I don't understand why you are having so much trouble with this.
If I arrive and tell you I'm a Lord, and you say I'm not, then you are calling me a liar.
In which case, I hope your sword arm is strong and steady.
If I thought Vallyn was the type of character who wouldn't make excuses to avoid a duel, Jens would have changed class and challenged him already.
Vallyn's response is simple - you were banned and stripped of your title. You WERE a Lord, but I highly doubt they "let" you keep it after banning you.
We're also following game mechanics as well - you were a Lord, yes. Now you are a Knight. There is no error in calling you a Knight, as that is clearly your current rank.
As for Vallyn - on the last assault in Candiels he dueled their Marshal to the Death, he's a warrior through and through. He, like most in Madina who have fought their share of battles and duels - though on your claim he might balk a a death duel and accept your grievance as worthy of a duel to surrender. Kill a traitor and a rebel, sure. But a young Madinan Noble? Hmph.
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If the game says one thing, then that is what is correct. Doesn't always look optimal, but that has always been Tom's stance.
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So if history carries over, does that mean Madina should treat Jens as a traitor as well as a Lord? After all, he was both of those things in BoM 8)
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Tsss....Calling my a drill-instructor, drill-instructors are scary (I know) I'm a nice guy, most of the time 8)
Yes I write orders fast, yes I do not have much time at the moment and sometimes I forget/ignore messages (writing my thessis) so pardon me for not making perfect 100% sma letters. Then on the title part for the player of Jens, btw thanks for the scout reports :P
I checked your title, it clearly states knight and not Lord of some region but knight. You started as a Citizen in Madina, you become a knight under a liege and you can become a Lord again when you have your own land. Holding on to previous titles from other Continents is the same a new player who demands he is called prince. Because where he comes from his father is King of oempa doemba land.
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Guys, it really doesn't have anything to do with Game Mechanics. It's all role play. I'm sure Vallyn considers himself to be the rightful Ruler of the lands in the Duchy of Candiels, right? Even though Game Mechanics clearly show he isn't? Isn't that what our war is about? Isn't Mendicant just a pretender in his eyes?
In Makar, we do the "viking exile" thing, like why Erik the Red wandered off. He killed some people, so they told him to get out of town for a few years until things cooled off.
Jens' nephew was immediately appointed the next Lord of Melmoor, it was rp'd that he was in charge of the Namtrah clan fortune for now, and Jens is welcome to come back as soon as he promises to behave - at which time he'll probably take up the lordship again. He's not a "traitor" in Makar - he could go back right now.
Why would you want to kill off all of that role play in a roleplaying game because the word "lord" doesn't print out next his name from the code, and he has to type it in himself? There is nothing worse for this game than jumping in with "game mechanics trump" where there's no need, especially as GM are so inconsistent and controversial at times anyways.
If Vallyn wants to RP in the way he is, he's welcome too. He just hasn't; none of the lords have. They haven't explained it at all.
They think Jens is trustworthy enough to send on special missions, seem to believe everything else he says, apparently are considering making him the next Duke of Candiel if I read that right, and yet think he is lying about something as commonplace in this game as being a lord where he came from. That doesn't make any sense to me.
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Tsss....Calling my a drill-instructor, drill-instructors are scary (I know) I'm a nice guy, most of the time 8)
Yes I write orders fast, yes I do not have much time at the moment and sometimes I forget/ignore messages (writing my thessis) so pardon me for not making perfect 100% sma letters. Then on the title part for the player of Jens, btw thanks for the scout reports :P
I checked your title, it clearly states knight and not Lord of some region but knight. You started as a Citizen in Madina, you become a knight under a liege and you can become a Lord again when you have your own land. Holding on to previous titles from other Continents is the same a new player who demands he is called prince. Because where he comes from his father is King of oempa doemba land.
Lauren, I've already said at least once in this thread I was not referring to you.
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Guys, it really doesn't have anything to do with Game Mechanics. It's all role play.
Roleplay is defined by game mechanics. Jens can claim anything he wants, but unless mechanics back him up, nobody's forced to believe him.
I can tell you now that if someone walked into Luria Nova with a history of sabotage against his own realm, who then started demanding we call him Lord, he'd be ridiculed and quite possibly told to bugger off.
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Roleplay is defined by game mechanics. Jens can claim anything he wants, but unless mechanics back him up, nobody's forced to believe him.
I can tell you now that if someone walked into Luria Nova with a history of sabotage against his own realm, who then started demanding we call him Lord, he'd be ridiculed and quite possibly told to bugger off.
Good. You can do that.
They haven't. They haven't roleplayed a thing about it.
I don't find this game all that interesting for its game mechanics. I enjoy building stories, and like other players to at least show a reaction - whatever they want it to be - to the stories. Not just ignore it in-game and justify it OOC by pointing at game mechanics.
As Chenier said recently, I'm not here just to entertain you. I'm not really all that hung up about the lord title, per se, but about the way it is being dealt with. If you can't give a minimum back in the form of a reaction to my efforts then I will bugger off, and someone else can do your dangerous missions and run your estates for you.
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what do you mean they haven't roleplayed a thing about it? your character claimed he's a lord and the others laughed at it due to a complete lack of evidence (right?) that's roleplay.
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Have they laughed at it in game, or in the forum? The forum isn't a free fifth character.
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i think that's a matter of what you consider Roleplay - Vallyn's been quite clear in how he addresses you, which is part of how you can determine where you stand with him.
At first you were "Noble", then "Knight" - now after the last bit you're up to "Sir Jens". He's quite deliberately not called you Lord, but he has modified how he addresses you depending on how he is feeling about you are standing in the Realm. My use of titles in messages is probably a key to my dwilight RP. Mendicant is never "King Mendicant" always "Duke", because I refuse to acknowledge him as anything but a traitorous Duke. As Jens raises in my prestige he will get more affable and pleasant addresses, along with more suggestions rather than instructions.
As for the Duke part ;) Well, I'd rather see Halicos take that and someone like Jens get Panabuk or Fatmilak. But that's up to the Grand Council at the end of the day.
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My question is, why would Madinan nobles feel compelled to recognize a title that was bestowed by a realm that is on a whole other continent, with whom they have no diplomatic relations or other dealings? That's like a Chinese guy strolling into a pub in medieval London, loudly claiming he was the Grand Poobah of North China, and demanding to be treated like royalty. He would probably have been laughed out of the building, if not beaten senseless.
See, that's my RP interpretation. But which one of us is right? The answer: Neither. RP in this game is a collaborative process. You can't just pretend something works a certain way and then demand that everyone agree with your interpretation. Other people have a right to their own interpretations, thank you very much, and that doesn't make them wrong.
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In my opinion, your logic is faulty. A lord of Britain going to the kingdom of Yuggoslavia would likely be treated and respected as a lord.
The problem is, you aren't a lord anymore. *Someone else* is now lord of that region you once governed. You are a lord of nothing, asking to be recognized as the lord of someone else's property.
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In my opinion, your logic is faulty. A lord of Britain going to the kingdom of Yuggoslavia would likely be treated and respected as a lord.
The problem is, you aren't a lord anymore. *Someone else* is now lord of that region you once governed. You are a lord of nothing, asking to be recognized as the lord of someone else's property.
I concur on both points.
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My question is, why would Madinan nobles feel compelled to recognize a title that was bestowed by a realm that is on a whole other continent, with whom they have no diplomatic relations or other dealings? That's like a Chinese guy strolling into a pub in medieval London, loudly claiming he was the Grand Poobah of North China, and demanding to be treated like royalty. He would probably have been laughed out of the building, if not beaten senseless.
See, that's my RP interpretation. But which one of us is right? The answer: Neither. RP in this game is a collaborative process. You can't just pretend something works a certain way and then demand that everyone agree with your interpretation. Other people have a right to their own interpretations, thank you very much, and that doesn't make them wrong.
Mm...reference the Himoura family for an example of a clear exception to that final point you made. Sometimes, RP gets a bit overzealous for some people.
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It's late, and my little two day vacation because of the typhoon passing through is over :'( so will only mention for now:
In-game, it is obvious to me that the players in my realm read my concerns and are doing some changes/being a little more active and open with their chars, and with a little new blood we just got it looks like Madina is shaping up to be a very fun place to play. So, a big thank you for that, and I'll try to hold up my end as well.
Interesting discussion from a more general perspective, but might be better in a different thread (and for me, a different time). Maybe I'll start a new thread on game mechs vs. role play sometime - I can see that going on for a few pages :-p
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I can see that going on for a few pages :-p
+99 I guess :p
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Tough to get in game discussions going.
Always feel free to bring it here though, or message us OOC.
Problem is if we're doing something wrong, most people don't TELL us. -.-
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That's cuz you're doing it WRONG!
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I can't wait to introduce some of my character's vices and virtues, he's already been called an idiot. That made me so happy.
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lol who called you in idiot ;) ?
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One of the younger knights, he was reacting to my introduction roleplay.
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I thought that was a good RP, some good humor in that one "captain Sparrow"...eee...I mean knight :P
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Thank you, I wasn't trying to go for a Jack Sparrow or anything like that but Travio has the personality of a Conquistador, or he will eventually. I'm guessing he will fit in well with nobility but I think priests and nobles that care for the peasants will loath him with a passion. It's funny because his older brother is actually friends with a couple of commoners and treats them well, where Travio will be exploiting the peasants for his own personal gain.
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Travio will be exploiting the peasants for his own personal gain.
isn't that what there for?
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Haha yes.
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Madina sounds very hierarchacal which you may chalk up to "being SMA" but truly we are the top 1% of nobility. We are all the elites of elites and deserve to be treated that way. All this talk of "not speaking below my station" seems a little intense for me...
On the other hand a noble claiming to have a lord title from another continent baffles me. Maybe you are trying to rp him as being proud, bordering on arrogant but, to me at least, he's coming off as a bit of a mad buffoon.
When Hyperion Harte, caerwyn's judge, came to Terran to set up shop i called him lord in my welcome as a sign of respect. But only because my character knew him and his situation personally, and only once.
Hell if you're gonna go around demanding to be called lord from past appointments why not demand it cause your relative on another continent is a lord and as such you deserve your due respect...
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Because your relative isn't you... In most normal cases.
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Madina sounds very hierarchacal which you may chalk up to "being SMA" but truly we are the top 1% of nobility. We are all the elites of elites and deserve to be treated that way. All this talk of "not speaking below my station" seems a little intense for me...
On the other hand a noble claiming to have a lord title from another continent baffles me. Maybe you are trying to rp him as being proud, bordering on arrogant but, to me at least, he's coming off as a bit of a mad buffoon.
When Hyperion Harte, caerwyn's judge, came to Terran to set up shop i called him lord in my welcome as a sign of respect. But only because my character knew him and his situation personally, and only once.
Hell if you're gonna go around demanding to be called lord from past appointments why not demand it cause your relative on another continent is a lord and as such you deserve your due respect...
I really don't understand this "coming off as a mad buffoon" comment that people keep insisting on.
You said he's in the top 1% of nobility, he was accepted as nobility upon the moment he arrived in the realm, he has been trusted to run very important military mission, he has been (according to this thread) selected in the minds of the top nobility of the realm as being next in line to be either a lord or the next Duke, and yet...
when he tells you that he is the lord of a region on an island you are familiar with, he is "coming off as a mad buffoon" ?
I have an interesting twist on this - I think that based on the logic I have just outlined, anyone who DOESN'T accept that he is a lord is obviously crazy, and I'll start to treat them as such. That would be interesting, and a lot of fun role play :-)
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i think the key is not he IS, but he WAS
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no, that's not actually what they have said
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I think the key is you weren't some prestigious duke that everyone knows. You were banned as a de facto traitor.
But please understand, I understand your reason and logic in having your guy demand being called lord due to a previous lordship, my Character thinks your character is missing a few screws.
But it's a moot point because frankly you can do as you please and really it adds to the rp so why not. I wouldn't do that but hell, worse things have been attempted.
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he has been trusted to run very important military mission,
That had a more OOC activity reason but yeah IC they were important, how long until you get out of prison btw?
he has been (according to this thread) selected in the minds of the top nobility of the realm as being next in line to be either a lord or the next Duke, and yet...
You, next Duke? I can think of only 3 people in Madina who have or make a valid claim on a possible dukeship. But you, as a new man in Madina. What, who, how? LoL did I miss the imporant staff meeting last week?
Edit: I now read the part *(according to this thread)* ....*wink* *wink*
Edit2: I'm sometimes a dyslectic useless horse's ass or blind but I can't find it -_-'
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What, who, how?
Halicos was going to put him forward. He wants to keep his own knight in Fatmilak (sorry Corin :P) and everyone else already has a title. He'd much prefer Vallyn there as he's been a proven trading partner in the past, but he's Grand Doge so probably best to share the positions a little.
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Halicos was going to put him forward. He wants to keep his own knight in Fatmilak (sorry Corin :P)
This, imo, is the worst part of estates, and I'm surprised nobody spoke of this open secret before.
It drives people in power to keep the people down the ladder where they are, as it gives them directly something to lose by having these people promoted.
I personally always have to repeat to myself that "it will make him a stronger ally than he is a servant" to remind myself that it's in my best interests to part with a knight (most of the time) to send him off for a promotion, but it *always* feels like I'm shooting myself in the foot. And I hate the feeling every time, I shouldn't feel penalized for helping knights get promotions...
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Yes, I know what you mean. It can hurt to lose a knight, especially if you're already short. I try to not take that into consideration when promoting people. But I know that from time to time it probably does influence me.
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You're presuming, of course, that he's being kept for the estates. In fact he's Halicos' personal trader. Try ordering a Duke to wander into Zuma lands with 300 bushels of food, I doubt that's going to go down well :P
Estate support isn't that big a deal. Fatmilak doesn't need much estate help and I've managed before with only Halicos. Might be a little harder now that Halicos gets only 5 hours a turn, but I'm sure it'd still be possible.
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You're presuming, of course, that he's being kept for the estates.
I think we were more discussing the general case of promoting your own knights, rather than your specific situation.
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I think we were more discussing the general case of promoting your own knights, rather than your specific situation.
Indeed.
Our trader was made a duke, btw, and I din't see any problems being created by that. Not yet at least. :P
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I think we were more discussing the general case of promoting your own knights, rather than your specific situation.
Ahh fair enough, quoting me threw me off :P
Our trader was made a duke, btw, and I din't see any problems being created by that. Not yet at least. :P
And he gladly takes orders from a Lord and walks into land where there are hundreds of Zuma?
With regards to promoting knights, I tend to believe that eventually a new one will come along. If not, then just poach one from someone else. So promotions are put forward where they're due. My characters have different thoughts on "where they're due" and I try not to let OOC things pollute those thoughts.
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And he gladly takes orders from a Lord and walks into land where there are hundreds of Zuma?
Well, I was duke for about 3 days, but now I command a township. Who said anything about orders? Gornak's as greedy as they come. Besides, TMP hurts Gornak as well as the rest of the realm.
You are currently between Thysan (Woodland, Barca) and Eregon (Rural, (rogue)).
You should arrive there in about 10 hours.
Here's what's waiting for me:
(rogue) 60 men 60 men 950 CS (Undead)
321CS Infantry--me
135CS Cavalry-knight
500CS Mixed Infantry-knight
So, it'll be a close battle. Hopefully that other group of undead doesn't come back.
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Ahh fair enough, quoting me threw me off :P
And he gladly takes orders from a Lord and walks into land where there are hundreds of Zuma?
With regards to promoting knights, I tend to believe that eventually a new one will come along. If not, then just poach one from someone else. So promotions are put forward where they're due. My characters have different thoughts on "where they're due" and I try not to let OOC things pollute those thoughts.
If you get 1 noble per two months, and every other region in the realm is as desperate for knights as you are, and that promotions often means the annexation of a new region that will become yet another competitor for knights...
When there's no blood and I get to them first, I consider myself extremely lucky. Unless you play on AT or EC, maybe, they don't join often.
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Well, I was duke for about 3 days, but now I command a township. Who said anything about orders? Gornak's as greedy as they come. Besides, TMP hurts Gornak as well as the rest of the realm.
You are currently between Thysan (Woodland, Barca) and Eregon (Rural, (rogue)).
You should arrive there in about 10 hours.
Here's what's waiting for me:
(rogue) 60 men 60 men 950 CS (Undead)
321CS Infantry--me
135CS Cavalry-knight
500CS Mixed Infantry-knight
So, it'll be a close battle. Hopefully that other group of undead doesn't come back.
This is irrelevant cause that horde has moved on but, 950 v. 950?? Won't be a tight battle it'll be a defender/ rogue victory.. Or am I missing something? :o
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We just had this battle in Shinnen Purlieus:
Total:
2 attackers (21 other)
3 defenders (1 Inf, 17 Arch)
Total combat strengths: 1960 vs. 325
Luria Nova won. Eighteen men of which seventeen were archers behind a palisade took on twenty-one monsters, six times their strength, and won.
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Yeah, think of monsters and undead as units with really high training, but low weapons stats and low organization/cohesion. They won't score many hits.
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This is irrelevant cause that horde has moved on but, 950 v. 950?? Won't be a tight battle it'll be a defender/ rogue victory.. Or am I missing something? :o
Meh, they're undead. I'd expect to win an even battle against undead. Even when the undead outnumber you, they are much weaker than their CS would indicate.
Monster, on the other hand, are much tougher than their CS would lead you to believe.
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Eh, I find that monsters break relatively easily as well. They just do a lot more damage compared to undead before they break and run.
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This is irrelevant cause that horde has moved on but, 950 v. 950?? Won't be a tight battle it'll be a defender/ rogue victory.. Or am I missing something? :o
We started out with 1200CS but got in a couple of battles in Thysan. Besides, my goal is not to win battles--it's to sell food to the Zuma. So I'm set for middle/box/defensive with minimum retreat. All I really want is to avoid capture.
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Eh, I find that monsters break relatively easily as well. They just do a lot more damage compared to undead before they break and run.
Yeah, that can make them tough to completely wipe out. It's not uncommon to need three or four battles to completely wipe out a big squad, especially if you don't have any cavalry for the finishing punch. And if all you have is a few small units, you can take a LOT of damage before you get them all.
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Oh, hey, look... The rebels are in Tower Fatmilak destroying the tower there...
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It's going down.
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Oh, hey, look... The rebels are in Tower Fatmilak destroying the tower there...
Really?
... wasn't Madina acting all triumphant just, like, a week ago?
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Really?
... wasn't Madina acting all triumphant just, like, a week ago?
You mean, like, since day one?
Smells like opportunity, in any case.
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Smells like opportunity, in any case.
Yeah, our army was split. Most of us were off killing monsters in our rural regions with a handful sat in The Tower to try and put off an attack by Aurvandil (didn't work :P). My guess is it will go back and forth like this for a while. They'll attack The Tower, we'll attack Candiels, bit of a break, rinse, repeat.
I'm just waiting for them to attack Fatmilak, I'm certain there'll be a few annoyed D'Haran Lords out there who want their food back :P
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It was quite unthinkable for a 20k pop realm with about 700 gold income to raise a 6k+ army....
We never counted for them to go far above the 4k limit we had in mind.
But i should've known, these players also have connections with Averoth and thulsoma and even still adopt those silly saxon names, even all the way down south....
Ah well atleast we're having a challange.
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You mean, like, since day one?
Smells like opportunity, in any case.
Oo oo, you mean we got their army out from behind their level 5 walls onto a level playing field?
So - who can rebuilt quicker. Madina with nigh 3K gold production. . .orrr Candiels. With 800gp production?
That's of course, pretending like they haven't expanded WAY beyond their own capacity to field an army.
I would've preferred our army was a bit closer - but hey, needed to go clear some beasts. Never figured they'd get an extra 2K CS in a few days, that requires some serious gold they shouldn't have :P
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Those saxon fools learn their lesson not to mess with the stars :) They failed three times and now they decided to cause more havoc in southern realms..
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But i should've known, these players also have connections with Averoth and thulsoma and even still adopt those silly saxon names, even all the way down south....
Ah well atleast we're having a challange.
I'm going to assume you're just joking because trying to imply another realm is cheating just because they beat you is pretty sad.
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He wasn't saying the realm as a whole was cheating, just those players, which has been proven before.
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I don't think anyone would imply cheating, nor should really. Though it's pretty obvious they either pulled a lot of family gold or another realm provided them gold (which, is very likely).
Regardless, we just threw them out of the Tower once our army got back.
My stats show that overall we loss 3K strength. . .and they lost 6K at the end of this exchange.
I'm pretty happy with it :) And more importantly. . .it was fun.
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I'm going to assume you're just joking because trying to imply another realm is cheating just because they beat you is pretty sad.
No Velax, i am not always joking. :P
First of all no one has beaten no one yet.
And i am not implying that they are cheating, But I believe they are breaking the rules.
They seem to be part or partly part of the same ooc group as some Averoth/Thulsoma players.
They have ooc motives behind what they're character do and simply just gang up without any rp reasoning thats the only thing that bothers me.
The rebelion as a whole and the fact that they have so much strenght thanks to ganging up oocly is actually as Phellan noted, bringing alot of fun and excitement to us.
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It's a shame the excitement is going to end soon :P
I got bored and had a look through their family gold: very low. Almost all characters there have under 1.2k family gold, there are just 2 characters with over 2k. The lowest family gold being in the families of the initial rebels (Florence, Medicant, etc). So they won't be able to call on that gold for much longer. Their regions are in a pretty bad state from what I know, so not much gold there either. My guess is that the recent attack was an "all or nothing" attempt at pushing us back to Madina city which failed.
From a Madinan perspective, I'm pretty glad they didn't win. Having to march from Madina city up to The Tower would have been a disaster. From a gameplay perspective, it would certainly have added a bit more fun to have to fight them back (likely we'd have taken back the Madina Isle too which could have been fun).
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Though it's pretty obvious they either pulled a lot of family gold or another realm provided them gold (which, is very likely).
They did use tons of family gold, if their family pages are to be trusted.
Regarding foreign aid... I'm pretty sure they didn't get any. They could have gotten foreign aid if they didn't have a habit of systematically ignoring and alienating potential allies.
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Regarding foreign aid... I'm pretty sure they didn't get any. They could have gotten foreign aid if they didn't have a habit of systematically ignoring and alienating potential allies.
I think that so far has been one of the biggest boons to Madina - I've been trying pretty hard to repair any damage to our relations with others over the past years and they haven't done much to help themselves from what I've seen.
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I think that so far has been one of the biggest boons to Madina - I've been trying pretty hard to repair any damage to our relations with others over the past years and they haven't done much to help themselves from what I've seen.
Indeed it has been. Aurvandil's diplomatic strategy is.... don't.
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yeah who orderd the army out of the tower anyway during my absence...
I'm sure Luan said about 15 times to leave a decent force behind lol :p
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yeah who orderd the army out of the tower anyway during my absence...
I'm sure Luan said about 15 times to leave a decent force behind lol :p
Perhaps if you rotate which people are left to sit in the Tower, they might not get bored and wander off to fight monsters? Just an idea - personally, Jens has dropped his unit and is practicing his prison escapes
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I think we had more fun when the army was out :D
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So, what does the large influx of Caerwynian knights into both Aurvandil and Madina portend for the civil war?
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So, what does the large influx of Caerwynian knights into both Aurvandil and Madina portend for the civil war?
well you will see a slow increase of military power and several more rogue regions taken.
After that ya'l can expect a real good show down south!
Best time to join either realm would be now!
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So, what does the large influx of Caerwynian knights into both Aurvandil and Madina portend for the civil war?
I'm expecting several large scale sea invasion battles. Honor and prestige for everyone!
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I'm expecting several large scale sea invasion battles. Honor and prestige for everyone!
That's what I'm hoping for. I don't think I've gained much in the years I've been on Dwilight.
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I'm expecting several large scale sea invasion battles. Honour and prestige for everyone!
That's what I'm hoping for. I don't think I've gained much in the years I've been on Dwilight.
Halicos needs to be shown as more honourable than that rat Tarajist, so I need a few more battles too! :P
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That's what I'm hoping for. I don't think I've gained much in the years I've been on Dwilight.
Halicos needs to be shown as more honourable than that rat Tarajist, so I need a few more battles too! :P
Speaking of. . .you wouldn't believe who Fissoa was asking about :D
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Speaking of. . .you wouldn't believe who Fissoa was asking about :D
Well I've only got two guesses. I don't think Halicos annoyed anyone in Fissoa... Wait, no, he may have purchased 500+ bushels from them for about 20 gold per hundred and then sold it back to them at 50 gold per hundred (shhhh, they don't know). So yeah, who wants him dead this time?
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Well I've only got two guesses. I don't think Halicos annoyed anyone in Fissoa... Wait, no, he may have purchased 500+ bushels from them for about 20 gold per hundred and then sold it back to them at 50 gold per hundred (shhhh, they don't know). So yeah, who wants him dead this time?
I think hes refering to Tarajist, hes now part of Fissoa probably causing some egocentric upheaval there too now.
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I think hes refering to Tarajist, hes now part of Fissoa probably causing some egocentric upheaval there too now.
I know, I was just hoping that someone other than lunatics could want Halicos harmed :P
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Tarajist has been quite a pain, yes :)
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I know, I was just hoping that someone other than lunatics could want Halicos harmed :P
I think Halicos is one of my favourite Lords. . . he's so much fun to bargain with :D
I imagine though, he caused some of the other Doges quite a headache. . .
And ding ding ding! Tarajist it is. Balewind. . aptly named family :D lol.
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I think Halicos is one of my favourite Lords. . . he's so much fun to bargain with :D
*blush*
And ding ding ding! Tarajist it is. Balewind. . aptly named family :D lol.
What's he up to now?
Also, that attack from Terran, was that to help the rebels? Or a silly noble doing their own thing?
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Tarajist has been quite a pain, yes :)
Tarajist is a nice guy.
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Also, that attack from Terran, was that to help the rebels? Or a silly noble doing their own thing?
I have noooo idea.
I am running under the assumption it was someone whose either a noob. Or was wanting to be a trader. Or . . .was . . .heck if I know. Maybe they were on their way to Fissoa? :D lol.
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Hmm the only person from Terran I can think of who would be going down to Madina is Hyperion.. And he's joining you guys or something.
Was he arrested?
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Was he arrested?
Yeah, we got the "small forces" message, so I presume whoever it was is now in prison.
I'll wait for our judge to interrogate him before doing anything IC about it, but if he's joining us then that's all good I guess. At least now I know we're not about to have to deal with a 2 fronted war.
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The only Terran Noble in Prison is Hyperion. A good start is half the work, eh? :)
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Tarajist has been quite a pain, yes :)
We had him in Luria Nova for a bit... charming fellow ::)
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The only Terran Noble in Prison is Hyperion. A good start is half the work, eh? :)
Uhm...there's actually a Madinan in there now, too...er, little misunderstanding with a local roads warden or something. sure if you let him out, he'd explain
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We had him in Luria Nova for a bit... charming fellow ::)
He had a small talk with Amaury, in where he was convinced that leaving the realm would be the best option for his health.
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He had a small talk with Amaury, in where he was convinced that leaving the realm would be the best option for his health.
I am sure he'd deny that.
Offcourse he left because your realm is a "tyrannical oligarchic gang of criminals" just like anyone else who goes against his words.
keeps me thinking of this flower... (http://www.vws-flowerbulbs.nl/images/var_narcissus/flower_record.jpg)
Or this man.... (http://italie.blog.nl/files/2009/03/berlusconi_fiero.jpg)
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The short version: we all sucked at the military stuff, and should listen to him instead. When Amaury casually pointed out that most realms Tarajist ever was a leader in either died or were dying, he got upset and left.
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He left. We went from 9, to 35 nobles.
Coincidence? You never know >.>
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Nobles increased after Tarajist left? :P
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Nobles increased after Tarajist left? :P
Over tripled :P
Some of those are Caerwynians, but we've only had a handful of them join us. It was quite odd though that as soon as Tarajist left, we started to get a steady rise in nobles. I think we changed the realm description and other new player info around that time, so that's probably more likely (at least, I think that was Madina who did that...) :P
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Well, I don't really dislike Tarajist - he's just annoying to my character. Let that be clear :) I don't think everybody should play nice characters :)
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Well, I don't really dislike Tarajist - he's just annoying to my character.
Definitely. Tarajist is played very well.
Looking at the map, I think Madina may have a very large upper hand now. Aurvandil can only expand into Evanburg, however I think that Barca would really like that region too. But Madina can expand into the Madinan isle and has the nobles to do it too. I think it's only a matter of time before the rebels are dead and New Caerywn takes its place. Leaving Madina without an enemy >.<
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You'll have plenty of neighbors. I'm sure one of them would like to pick a fight with you. And if not, just ask the Lurians, maybe they'll want to come down and punch you in the mouth a bit ;)
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Definitely. Tarajist is played very well.
Looking at the map, I think Madina may have a very large upper hand now. Aurvandil can only expand into Evanburg, however I think that Barca would really like that region too. But Madina can expand into the Madinan isle and has the nobles to do it too. I think it's only a matter of time before the rebels are dead and New Caerywn takes its place. Leaving Madina without an enemy >.<
Take it from me, there is *always* another enemy around the corner, possibly where you least expect it...
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http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Barca/Treaty_of_Evanburg (http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Barca/Treaty_of_Evanburg)
Not sure how good an idea that one is, but if Aurvandil loses I think Barca might want to take Evanburg fairly quickly if they don't want the new Caerwyn empire taking it.
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http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Barca/Treaty_of_Evanburg (http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Barca/Treaty_of_Evanburg)
You mean... They spoke to someone? I think I need to lie down.
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Phhht it's not a matter of speed.
What is rightfully Barca's will be protected by the militaries of the entire federation. If the new "Caerwyn empire" wants to take it by force they will certainly have their work cut out for them. Even if they have aide from Madina.
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You mean... They spoke to someone? I think I need to lie down.
That was my thought exactly. When Barca told us Aurvandil was actually communicating, I almost had a heart attack.
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That was my thought exactly. When Barca told us Aurvandil was actually communicating, I almost had a heart attack.
Same. They didn't even try to get military aid. I guess it's a good thing that they'll get crushed, as they likely did not have good intentions with the federation.
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Same. They didn't even try to get military aid. I guess it's a good thing that they'll get crushed, as they likely did not have good intentions with the federation.
Don't be too confident; our defense of Barca is a de facto defense of Aurvandil from monsters, and they can build walls in Candiels. A fortified city with a defended backdoor and rising rural population can make an inferior power resist for quite a while. Aurvandil's population is increasing, and I presume productivity will match. With Evanburg, a big new gold source is added.
I would not be shocked if Madina crushes Aurvandil with all their new nobles. But neither would I be surprised to see Aurvandil fight for a very, very long time.
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On the numbers...
Madina has gained 14 nobles from its "trough." Aurvandil has gained 9. That's an advantage to Madina... but it's not like Aurvandil is getting weaker. Both Aurvandil and Madina gained from Caerwyn's demise: Madina more maybe, but it might not be enough to tip the scales.
In CS, Madina bottomed at about 6400, Aurvandil at 2200... but they are currently both at 12000 CS. Pretty evenly matched.
While Madina has a big advantage in absolute food productivity, it's about equal in terms of ability to feed its population: both run big surpluses. Madina's better connection to foreign markets and larger surplus could be very useful for it... but I imagine the Duke of Paisly might find some willing sellers in the lords of Aurvandil, if they were personally contacted... maybe.
In terms of total income, Madina has a big advantage: but Aurvandil is catching up. Madina's new nobles will allow it to expand its income, but so will Aurvandil's. Madina's regions mostly have good population and infrastructure: Aurvandil is still developing. They have room for growth without expansion. While Madina certainly has more long-term growth potential, it will be a very long time before that equates to more military power, whereas Aurvandil's growth can translate into more military power pretty quickly. Plus, Aurvandil has demonstrated a better ability to leverage its wealth to full effectiveness (albeit with dubious ethics according to many reports). So they may not need to have equal income if they can manage it better (or maintain a defensive advantage on the walls). Then, for income per character, they're about even, though Aurvandil seems likely to rise as regions develop, and Madina seems likely to rise, but more slowly, as they expand.
In sum: Madina has gained something of an upper hand. But it's hardly over.
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On the numbers...
Hmm, that's interesting to know. Not as much as an advantage as I thought we had.
With regards to food, Madina has a buyer for most of its food and I don't think that income is shown in the statistics. You can presume that all of our surplus is bought for 35 gold (generally food sells at more, but a little is unsold from week to week and rots away).
On armies, Madina's current CS is quite far away from what it can be. A lot of the new nobles don't have units or are being rather conservative with their gold until we get them proper homes. The rebels seem to be using family gold, which is uncountable as it will regenerate below a certain amount and can be topped up from other characters.
As long as our food income is steady, I think Madina can close this war rather soonish.
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You mean... They spoke to someone? I think I need to lie down.
That was my thought exactly. When Barca told us Aurvandil was actually communicating, I almost had a heart attack.
You might be surprised, but Julius and Mendicant communicate on a regular basis.
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The rebels seem to be using family gold, which is uncountable as it will regenerate below a certain amount and can be topped up from other characters.
No. That was what Thulsoma/Averoth did, but that exploit has been closed. They may be able to call family gold if other characters are building up their wealth past the point where families object as much to sending funds, but they do not have an unlimited supply and I would imagine it is actually quite limited unless they have a rich Duke or ten propping them up.
All of which is assuming the same group of people are using the same tactics, which I have no information on, myself, but the previous tactic is no longer viable.
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No. That was what Thulsoma/Averoth did, but that exploit has been closed. They may be able to call family gold if other characters are building up their wealth past the point where families object as much to sending funds, but they do not have an unlimited supply and I would imagine it is actually quite limited unless they have a rich Duke or ten propping them up.
All of which is assuming the same group of people are using the same tactics, which I have no information on, myself, but the previous tactic is no longer viable.
They have several very rich families which are now down to ~1000gp. I've noticed Meadowcrest is down to 2000gp, he use to be very rich - but I don't know if that's related as hes always dropping gold into cities, which explains the spikes in their wealth.
Bluntly put Madina with 2400gp is barely able to rebuild our armies quickly, whereas Aurvandil has bested our military strength two or three times with only 1600gp income.
Either they are getting some serious food offers, or are pulling family gold (and have been for some time I suspect. 100gp a week helps a lot).
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With regards to food, Madina has a buyer for most of its food and I don't think that income is shown in the statistics. You can presume that all of our surplus is bought for 35 gold (generally food sells at more, but a little is unsold from week to week and rots away).
Last few times I checked, there was no food available for purchase in Madina. And when there was, it was never selling for under 45 gold, usually for 50.
Hmmm, I guess there was a harvest recently. I'm seeing a lot more offers on my list. Time to send some caravans, and hope they don't all return empty as they did last time.
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Last few times I checked, there was no food available for purchase in Madina. And when there was, it was never selling for under 45 gold, usually for 50.
Hmmm, I guess there was a harvest recently. I'm seeing a lot more offers on my list. Time to send some caravans, and hope they don't all return empty as they did last time.
Totally not my fault... Maybe...
The other food doesn't go onto the market, we have a trade agreement with Luria Nova so recently all of our food has been gathered and sent off to them. Some went to The Zuma too. Fatmilak is the only region (I think) that refuses to sell it to Luria Nova and prefers to sell it for 50 gold per hundred rather than what Luria Nova are offering.
If you send caravans to Fatmilak, you're probably safe but it's more expensive (quite a few Lords have said too expensive and stopped buying). Send to somewhere else and it's likely to be snapped up by Corin (our trader) before you get there and sold for some profit elsewhere.
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Totally not my fault... Maybe...
The other food doesn't go onto the market, we have a trade agreement with Luria Nova so recently all of our food has been gathered and sent off to them. Some went to The Zuma too. Fatmilak is the only region (I think) that refuses to sell it to Luria Nova and prefers to sell it for 50 gold per hundred rather than what Luria Nova are offering.
If you send caravans to Fatmilak, you're probably safe but it's more expensive (quite a few Lords have said too expensive and stopped buying). Send to somewhere else and it's likely to be snapped up by Corin (our trader) before you get there and sold for some profit elsewhere.
So first Madina gets a trade monopoly from Fissoa and then sells it's own surplus to LN? Lmao :P And you stole our trader! :D
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So first Madina gets a trade monopoly from Fissoa and then sells it's own surplus to LN? Lmao :P And you stole our trader! :D
Long live capitalism. :P
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Long live capitalism. :P
I don't think capitalism is SMA :P Mercantilism, at best
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It costs a lot of gold to wage a war!
We're just doing our best to fund our armies. :P
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So first Madina gets a trade monopoly from Fissoa and then sells it's own surplus to LN?
Don't be silly, the stuff we buy from you gets lost on the way over here, we've never seen a single bushel. Honest.
And you stole our trader! :D
We stole nothing! He just loves his pockets being weighted down with gold. Actually, I really want to know how much gold he has. He has a tiny unit, is out of the realm for weeks on end with his trading, makes a profit on anything he sells and has Fatmilak's trade income. If he's never sent anything to his family, he'll easily have 2000 gold on him right now.
It costs a lot of gold to wage a war!
Too right. Halicos went crazy (read: me thinking "sod it") when the rebels got into The Tower and spent about 500 gold on a unit. Which got almost completely wiped out in 1 battle. Those silly rebels and their city walls preventing our infantry from getting in and our archers from hitting them - whatever will they think of next!?
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Corin was a cool guy, until he suddenly left :P No hurt feelings, though. And now we barely produce any surplus anymore :S
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Don't be silly, the stuff we buy from you gets lost on the way over here, we've never seen a single bushel. Honest.
Nor any troops, untill now(two units hunting rogues to get rid of there own tmp...).
At first they even threatend to join our enemy.
So much for an ally ;)
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Nor any troops, untill now(two units hunting rogues to get rid of there own tmp...).
At first they even threatend to join our enemy.
So much for an ally ;)
As if Madina sent anything worth mentioning against PeL, back in the day.
We're working on it, though :) And yes, TMP is a factor. But no, without TMP we'd still send them. TMP even hit us after plans to send them were made
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As if Madina sent anything worth mentioning against PeL, back in the day.
So your saying the current support from Fissoa is not worth mentioning? 8)
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So your saying the current support from Fissoa is not worth mentioning? 8)
I'm saying it is not yet 8)
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As if Madina sent anything worth mentioning against PeL, back in the day.
We're working on it, though :) And yes, TMP is a factor. But no, without TMP we'd still send them. TMP even hit us after plans to send them were made
TMP actually hit us while I was in Madina. I noticed my CS dropping and I was like :o
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Bluntly put Madina with 2400gp is barely able to rebuild our armies quickly, whereas Aurvandil has bested our military strength two or three times with only 1600gp income.
Or, there are Madinans wasting gold by hording, buffing family accounts, or some other use.
Or, Aurvandil has found a few units with optimal gold/CS ratios and repeatedly uses those RCs.
Or, they recruit more, smaller units rather than fewer, larger units, thereby optimizing CS.
The idea that realm income will necessary translate into CS is just silly. Plus, the income listed IG is an estimate. They could be running higher average tax rates than Madina, so their income may be understated.
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Plus, the income listed IG is an estimate. They could be running higher average tax rates than Madina, so their income may be understated.
Being a smaller realm, this is very likely. I think someone (not Tom, but one of the others) mentioned that smaller realms do have advantages in terms of tax rates and other things.
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I mentioned it. Smaller the realm is, the higher taxes you can run without running into nasty penalties. It's one of the biggest factors in making small realms viable.
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I like smaller realms. Single Duchy realms are optimal. Lower recruitment costs and higher tax rates. Plus they are usually easier to maintain.
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I like smaller realms. Single Duchy realms are optimal. Lower recruitment costs and higher tax rates. Plus they are usually easier to maintain.
Indeed.
On that basis, it seems quite plausible that Aurvandil is simply more efficiently run than Madina, even discounting any unfair play.
Though Madina should be bringing in a few hundred gold in trade revenues that should more than compensate for that gap.
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But the big question, will it be enough to successfully siege the walls of Candiels. ::) *Hoping it ain't*
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But the big question, will it be enough to successfully siege the walls of Candiels. ::) *Hoping it ain't*
It probably isn't.
We still actually need siege engines too, those are a pain in the arse. They have to come from Madina city since The Tower can't build the workshop for them >.<
Rather deadlocked at the moment. Rebels can't breach The Tower, we don't have siege engines to breach Candiels.
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Rebels can't breach The Tower, we don't have siege engines to breach Candiels.
But we HAVE thousands of barrels of rum...
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Rather deadlocked at the moment. Rebels can't breach The Tower, we don't have siege engines to breach Candiels.
SE's? Srsly, that's what's holding you back? Build a siege workshop, wait a few days, then attack!
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Or build a Demolitions thingy.
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SE's? Srsly, that's what's holding you back? Build a siege workshop, wait a few days, then attack!
Madina produces very little gold, I think. Not thinking the rebels would secede, we forced Sage out of Madina's ducal seat (long story short, we didn't like him) by making it rebel. Now we can't build SE there until the city is repaired a little more - someone could probably just lend Abbot the gold, but Madina is a funny place like that :P
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but Madina is a funny place like that :P
Read inefficient; That's why a realm half your size is holding your throat :P
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Read inefficient; That's why a realm half your size is holding your throat :P
Well i think emergency act is working out fine.
Everything is running pretty smoothly.
When there is no emergency however, there isn't even a concept of a realm, let alone efficiency. :P
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In war time, the security of the realm should take precedence over private profit.
Caerwynians: if they're all like Helm Altenahr then I think Halicos is going to have a heart attack and/or want to shoo them out of Madina and into their own Candiels based realm as soon as possible :P
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Caerwynians: if they're all like Helm Altenahr then I think Halicos is going to have a heart attack and/or want to shoo them out of Madina and into their own Candiels based realm as soon as possible :P
Vallyn is going to either have a heart attack himself, or start stabbing people if they keep making him write all these nice happy "lets-all-play-nice-and-get-along" letters :P
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What happens if the Rebels do win? :D
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Caerwynians: if they're all like Helm Altenahr then I think Halicos is going to have a heart attack and/or want to shoo them out of Madina and into their own Candiels based realm as soon as possible :P
Believe you me, the Caerwynians want their own realm as soon as possible. Things in Madina are alot more individualistic then Caerwynians are used too, we are a tough bunch though and the lot who are in Madina are by and large dedicated.
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Believe you me, the Caerwynians want their own realm as soon as possible. Things in Madina are alot more individualistic then Caerwynians are used too, we are a tough bunch though and the lot who are in Madina are by and large dedicated.
Didn't some of the Caerwynians go to Aurvandil?
I wish the Zuma would just invade both Auvandil and Madina, and sell us all the food.
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I wish the Zuma would just invade both Auvandil and Madina, and sell us all the food.
If the zuma would invade anything, they'd eat all the food them selves.
They pay 80 gold per 100 bushels, remember, there really really hungry.
If there's no trade from these two realms anywhere, it's probably faulty or no communication.
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Vallyn is going to either have a heart attack himself, or start stabbing people if they keep making him write all these nice happy "lets-all-play-nice-and-get-along" letters :P
Yeah i know, i geuss the player of helm is rather young pt something.
That character doesn't doesn't have any manners at all.
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another fun fact: Aurvendil is now officialy the second largest military force in all of Dwilight!
Morek empire is probably Suffering from TMP, who now holds third place with Madina closing in.
Astrum is still way ahead of everyone else though.
(http://battlemaster.org/statistics/realmstat.php?ShowWorld=8&Type=Military&simple=0&ShowOnly=12,36,21,4,29)
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Morek empire is probably Suffering from TMP.
Correct. I've jusdt disbanded a bunch of militia whose training fell to around 5%. My own unit went from 60% to 25% training, losing around 500 cs in the process.
Amazing.
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Yeah i know, i geuss the player of helm is rather young pt something.
That character doesn't doesn't have any manners at all.
Nah, Helm is fine. He calls Halicos "Baron Halicos", which is acceptable - he'd prefer "Baron Stalker" or "Baron Fatmilak", but as long as "Baron" is in there it isn't too much of an issue. Some of the other, however, not addressing him by name at all, not good. Let's just say a stiff drink was needed to calm his nerves :P
I'm starting to really enjoy the Caerwynians, so many people that need convincing that Halicos is right! I expect that grabbing up food producing land on Madina Isle may lead to even more fun exchanges of ideas :D
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Nah, Helm is fine. He calls Halicos "Baron Halicos", which is acceptable - he'd prefer "Baron Stalker" or "Baron Fatmilak", but as long as "Baron" is in there it isn't too much of an issue. Some of the other, however, not addressing him by name at all, not good. Let's just say a stiff drink was needed to calm his nerves :P
I'm starting to really enjoy the Caerwynians, so many people that need convincing that Halicos is right! I expect that grabbing up food producing land on Madina Isle may lead to even more fun exchanges of ideas :D
over all i really like the new players, especialy those who roleplay.
Tugomir or something is quite a nice roleplayer.
I think all the grandpas in Madina needed a few strong drinks to calm down, apart from perhaps the rudeness, alot of things are happening and changing around them real fast.
I can imagine it to be scary for a bunch of old man siting for there entire lifes in a nicely isolated island, at least it is for good old Abbot.
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Didn't some of the Caerwynians go to Aurvandil?
I wish the Zuma would just invade both Auvandil and Madina, and sell us all the food.
About 13 Caerwynians are in Madina. Only about 2 or 3 went to Aurvandiel, and those were primarily Saxons. Except for Hyperion I'm not sure what happened but he was supposed to meet up with the Caerwynian contingent in Madina but joined Aurvandiel.
Graviel is expecting more to come south after Itaulond is destroyed.
All and all the whole adventure has been quite fun personally. Losing your homeland in a desperate war then traveling far away to build a new one. Foreign and bloodly adventures! Everything is quite Medieval :)
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All and all the whole adventure has been quite fun personally. Losing your homeland in a desperate war then traveling far away to build a new one. Foreign and bloodly adventures! Everything is quite Medieval :)
Sartania once tried that on the Far East. You could say it resulted in a huge war. It wasn't easy on a fully colonized continent.
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Sartania once tried that on the Far East. You could say it resulted in a huge war. It wasn't easy on a fully colonized continent.
Not to mention you tried setting up shop in the middle of a rival faith's land - without adopting the new faith. Every Realm around you had nobles in the Order just pushing for war to take back the birthplace of the Order from the vile Sartans :P
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another fun fact: Aurvendil is now officialy the second largest military force in all of Dwilight!
Morek empire is probably Suffering from TMP, who now holds third place with Madina closing in.
Astrum is still way ahead of everyone else though.
(http://battlemaster.org/statistics/realmstat.php?ShowWorld=8&Type=Military&simple=0&ShowOnly=12,36,21,4,29)
That is... extremely impressive. Terran is suffering from TMP as well; I'm actually not sure how Aurvandil isn't suffering from TMP.
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That is... extremely impressive. Terran is suffering from TMP as well; I'm actually not sure how Aurvandil isn't suffering from TMP.
The battles in the Tower and Candiels probably help both Aurvandil and Madina. And I know there have been monsters, though I've stopped keeping my eye out for them. They're fighting a war, so they don't get penalized. No peace, no problem.
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The battles in the Tower and Candiels probably help both Aurvandil and Madina. And I know there have been monsters, though I've stopped keeping my eye out for them. They're fighting a war, so they don't get penalized. No peace, no problem.
Actually we got hit with TMP about a week after that battle - right now we're not suffering TMP because we're TO'ing those regions around Madina. We lost probably 1500-2000CS from TMP.
I think Aurvandil is hitting monsters and probably avoided TMP from taking over the townsland region they just got.
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Actually we got hit with TMP about a week after that battle - right now we're not suffering TMP because we're TO'ing those regions around Madina. We lost probably 1500-2000CS from TMP.
I think Aurvandil is hitting monsters and probably avoided TMP from taking over the townsland region they just got.
TMP hitting realms at war... go figure.
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TMP hitting realms at war... go figure.
Yeah why hasn't it been tweaked already?
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TMP hitting realms at war... go figure.
Yeah why hasn't it been tweaked already?
I think Chénier means "why are they not fighting", which is why we're getting TMP. We may be at war, but when you don't actually kill your enemy, your soldiers get bored :P
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I think Chénier means "why are they not fighting", which is why we're getting TMP. We may be at war, but when you don't actually kill your enemy, your soldiers get bored :P
It's not only that. Madina and Aurvandil seem to be really at war. This is not some sort of mock-up war to avoid TMP. Yet, by doing what they think is best to win the war, those realm get hit by TMP. This means there is something wrong with TMP.
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It's not only that. Madina and Aurvandil seem to be really at war. This is not some sort of mock-up war to avoid TMP. Yet, by doing what they think is best to win the war, those realm get hit by TMP. This means there is something wrong with TMP.
+ 10000
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It's not only that. Madina and Aurvandil seem to be really at war. This is not some sort of mock-up war to avoid TMP. Yet, by doing what they think is best to win the war, those realm get hit by TMP. This means there is something wrong with TMP.
Indeed. TMP and Dwilight just can't go together in my opinion.
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Indeed. TMP and Dwilight just can't go together in my opinion.
Yet. Realms just need to mature a bit more and things will settle down.
The main reason we're not fighting is because our capitals are right next to each other over a sea route. Sure, either side could throw men against the walls, but the other side would win spectacularly and then march on their enemy's capital whilst the others limp home. It's pretty stalemated and soldiers find that boring, they want their rulers to do something about it now. It'll all be solved when Madina or Aurvandil get siege engines and dare to attack, which will be soon.
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It's not only that. Madina and Aurvandil seem to be really at war. This is not some sort of mock-up war to avoid TMP. Yet, by doing what they think is best to win the war, those realm get hit by TMP. This means there is something wrong with TMP.
They've been staring at each other for weeks and weeks, not fighting.
The main roleplaying these days in Madina is roughly, "Sorry, boys, we know you're incredibly bored..just hang in there"
This is EXACTLY what TMP is about. You should join the realms in question before offering such strong opinions on the matter.
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The main roleplaying these days in Madina is roughly, "Sorry, boys, we know you're incredibly bored..just hang in there"
Indeed, starting to get fairly repetitive but very little we can do right now. We're moving a few of the newer nobles into the "conquer Madina isle" army to give them some action whilst us older fellows who realise this is the calm before the storm can sit in The Tower and twiddle our thumbs.
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I did see reports not *that* long ago of the two fighting...
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that "huge" battle in the tower was 23 days ago
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that "huge" battle in the tower was 23 days ago
Seems like yesterday.
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Seems like yesterday.
That's the funny thing about this game...time just flies.
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That's the funny thing about this game...time just flies.
Especially when you aren't expecting anything.
Other than food shipments, that is, which come slowly and over which you have limited control. Just cruisin' in the eye of the hurricane.
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Especially when you aren't expecting anything.
Other than food shipments, that is, which come slowly and over which you have limited control. Just cruisin' in the eye of the hurricane.
TMP is getting so annoying for Terran, that I'm borderline thinking we should send armies south to interfere in the Madinan civil war, just so we can get rid of TMP.
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Well, you could do what everyone else is doing, and plot your invasion of D'Hara. :P
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TMP is getting so annoying for Terran, that I'm borderline thinking we should send armies south to interfere in the Madinan civil war, just so we can get rid of TMP.
Or north to Itauland?
Or to fool around in Golden Farrow, just for kicks?
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Well, you could do what everyone else is doing, and plot your invasion of D'Hara. :P
WHAT!? Can't be doing that! Halicos will lose his best trading partner! However, as the Ferengi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferengi)say, "war is good for business".
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TMP is getting so annoying for Terran, that I'm borderline thinking we should send armies south to interfere in the Madinan civil war, just so we can get rid of TMP.
Yea, send troops to aid both sides. :P
WHAT!? Can't be doing that! Halicos will lose his best trading partner! However, as the Ferengi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferengi)say, "war is good for business".
War amongst foreigners is good for business. War involving key allies and/or trading partners isn't.
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*points to the Zuma* Enemy that helps with TMP and will never perish or be destroyed, allowing you to get rid of TMP forever!
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... allowing you to get rid of TMP forever!
... by getting your realm destroyed.
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War amongst foreigners is good for business. War involving key allies and/or trading partners isn't.
Shh, don't say that too loudly, the D'Harans might hear you!
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Shh, don't say that too loudly, the D'Harans might hear you!
I'm the duke of Paisly :o
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TMP is getting so annoying for Terran, that I'm borderline thinking we should send armies south to interfere in the Madinan civil war, just so we can get rid of TMP.
I would support that. We are getting bored ourselves as well. Little monster activity lately.
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Heh, yeah, but isn't there some alternating views in the moot as to who to support? Some say Madina, some say Aurvandil. Could Terran attack Aurvandil (or Madina) while travelling through Barca if Barca wishes to support the other one? Might actually be worth discussing in the guild.
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Heh, yeah, but isn't there some alternating views in the moot as to who to support? Some say Madina, some say Aurvandil. Could Terran attack Aurvandil (or Madina) while travelling through Barca if Barca wishes to support the other one? Might actually be worth discussing in the guild.
We should totally have 2 of our realms attack one realm, and the other realm attack the other. No more TMP.
And if one side starts to win? Have all three realms side with the other.
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Heh. And when one of us comes up against the other? One goes neutral? Both? How about the Moot helps Aurvandil until they have the tower, and then switch sides until Madina has the tower back? :D
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Heh. And when one of us comes up against the other? One goes neutral? Both? How about the Moot helps Aurvandil until they have the tower, and then switch sides until Madina has the tower back? :D
This. Please. Just declare that we refuse to allow any power to hold Tower Fatmilak for a period greater than 6 months. We will not limit the war to Fatmilak, however: we will assault Aurvandil's inlands until they relinquish claim on it, or we will besiege Madina City (or the tower itself via Aurvandil).
This could be so much fun. Completely psychotic and likely to get the Moot a bad rep... but fun.
Of course, we wouldn't get a bad rep if we maybe convinced the Lurian realms to get in on the fun. But they're all gung ho about killing monsters. So they might disapprove.
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More like we wouldn't like the constant damage to food producing regions.
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More like we wouldn't like the constant damage to food producing regions.
Neither would we.
I actually quite like that it's the two capitals fighting, leaving the food-producing regions mostly unharmed. Should make it a rule that Madina city remains rogue forever, though, don't want to see food going back into that city.
Heh. And when one of us comes up against the other? One goes neutral? Both? How about the Moot helps Aurvandil until they have the tower, and then switch sides until Madina has the tower back? :D
We take a beer and watch the others kill themselves.
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And the Asylon swoops south killing you all and claims the entire south west of the map muhahahaha
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And the Asylon swoops south killing you all and claims the entire south west of the map muhahahaha
Distance from capital. Poor Asylon and its unattainable ambitions :o
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Distance from capital. Poor Asylon and its unattainable ambitions :o
Poor Glaumring and his unattainable ambitions ;)
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I just say we kick the crap out of Madina. They deserve it.
Or try to make a Véinsørmoot claim on Golden Farrow. The uncivilized, barbaric realms of the north have certainly proved irresponsible and unable to properly care for the valuable city.
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I just say we kick the crap out of Madina. They deserve it.
Or try to make a Véinsørmoot claim on Golden Farrow. The uncivilized, barbaric realms of the north have certainly proved irresponsible and unable to properly care for the valuable city.
Valuable city?
As if I don't have enough mouths to feed as it is.
My wish would be for all other realms to drop their excess cities and focus on their rurals and small cities. So that we may bathe in food. Then we can think about colonizations and the like. :P
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Valuable city?
As if I don't have enough mouths to feed as it is.
My wish would be for all other realms to drop their excess cities and focus on their rurals and small cities. So that we may bathe in food. Then we can think about colonizations and the like. :P
I can only really think of 1 realm that has excess cities. Most the rest of us are able to feed OUR cities quite well.
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I can only really think of 1 realm that has excess cities. Most the rest of us are able to feed OUR cities quite well.
The only important realm!
But in all seriousness, most realms don't care if D'Hara starves, but most in the 'moot probably do. And any in the 'moot acquiring it will increase the severity of starvations in D'Hara.
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The only important realm!
But in all seriousness, most realms don't care if D'Hara starves, but most in the 'moot probably do. And any in the 'moot acquiring it will increase the severity of starvations in D'Hara.
'moot secret plan 809 - Starve D'Hara, watch the realm collapse, acquire all the nobles for realms actually worth bothering with.
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Hey now I was joking!
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Hey now I was joking!
'moot secret plan 506 - Have Glaumring announce to the forums our plans and agenda, this way nobody will believe them until it is too late.
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Doh!
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As far as getting Aurvandil to relinquish their claim to the Tower goes, I'm pretty sure they don't actually claim it, though I may be wrong.
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Should make it a rule that Madina city remains rogue forever, though, don't want to see food going back into that city.
No problems there. Yesterday Halicos refused to ever sell food to Madina City again :P
But in all seriousness, most realms don't care if D'Hara starves
Realms, no. Halicos, yes. Business opportunity! "Oh, you're starving? Well the added guards to protect from hungry bandits means I have to charge sixty gold per hundred bushels. Sorry!"
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No problems there. Yesterday Halicos refused to ever sell food to Madina City again :P
Realms, no. Halicos, yes. Business opportunity! "Oh, you're starving? Well the added guards to protect from hungry bandits means I have to charge sixty gold per hundred bushels. Sorry!"
Or I just let it starve and don't deal with you greedy bastards.
Port Nebel can't keep itself under control, but being the capital, and being a priest/ambassador with capped oratory skill, I've kept Paisly at premium stats despite multiple days of starvation (not 100%, but still pretty high, nowhere near 1%). I can live with having a few peasants die to ignore opportunists. It's not as if Madina is our only source of food, after all, and it's not as if you guys don't need our trade gold either for your war.
Indeed, it would give us an excuse to side with Aurvandil in order to better secure your food stocks.
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Or I just let it starve and don't deal with you greedy bastards.
Port Nebel can't keep itself under control, but being the capital, and being a priest/ambassador with capped oratory skill, I've kept Paisly at premium stats despite multiple days of starvation (not 100%, but still pretty high, nowhere near 1%). I can live with having a few peasants die to ignore opportunists. It's not as if Madina is our only source of food, after all, and it's not as if you guys don't need our trade gold either for your war.
Indeed, it would give us an excuse to side with Aurvandil in order to better secure your food stocks.
Thats cold man....
Can we just invade D'hara already? constant drain on universal food with their excess cities that they cannot feed....
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Distance from capital. Poor Asylon and its unattainable ambitions :o
Asylon to Terran or D'Hara isn't that far. Should be easy.
Asylon to Aurvandil is harder, but should still be workable for experienced players/nobles with enough gold.
Not that I think Asylon is rich/powerful enough to pull it off.
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Or I just let it starve and don't deal with you greedy bastards.
Port Nebel can't keep itself under control, but being the capital, and being a priest/ambassador with capped oratory skill, I've kept Paisly at premium stats despite multiple days of starvation (not 100%, but still pretty high, nowhere near 1%). I can live with having a few peasants die to ignore opportunists. It's not as if Madina is our only source of food, after all, and it's not as if you guys don't need our trade gold either for your war.
Indeed, it would give us an excuse to side with Aurvandil in order to better secure your food stocks.
Where Greedy? look what you just wrote! :P
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Or I just let it starve and don't deal with you greedy bastards.
It's not as if Madina is our only source of food, after all, and it's not as if you guys don't need our trade gold either for your war.
Hey now, getting gold out of Halicos to fund the war is like trying to pull teeth outta a live croc - you're more likely to lose a limb then get what you're after.
Gold to Halicos ain't funding our war effort at all :P Just his personal stockpile for that super huge unit he's gonna round up one day.
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Where Greedy? look what you just wrote! :P
We already offer the best prices of the human realms. As far as I know, we were the firsts to do so, and did so without having our arms twisted.
That's not greed, that's pride.
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Thats cold man....
Can we just invade D'hara already? constant drain on universal food with their excess cities that they cannot feed....
Funny how people say we have excess cities, and then happily sell us their excess food for 50 gold per 100 bushels. The only responses I ever get are:
- "Well yes, we would love to have the gold produced by your cities. Here, take our food!
- "Sorry, we don't have any excess food.
I've never had someone say "Well, I would love your gold, and I have all this excess food, but I just don't feel like selling it to you."
D'Hara could field massive armies if we could just keep our people fed. We could become a mercenary nation that gets paid in food instead of gold!
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D'Hara could field massive armies if we could just keep our people fed.
"If we weren't so weak, we'd be strong!"
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"If we weren't so weak, we'd be strong!"
haha +1, exactly.
D'harans...
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Funny how people say we have excess cities, and then happily sell us their excess food for 50 gold per 100 bushels. The only responses I ever get are:
- "Well yes, we would love to have the gold produced by your cities. Here, take our food!
- "Sorry, we don't have any excess food.
I've never had someone say "Well, I would love your gold, and I have all this excess food, but I just don't feel like selling it to you."
D'Hara could field massive armies if we could just keep our people fed. We could become a mercenary nation that gets paid in food instead of gold!
Pfft I once considered selling my 1000 bushels of excess to D'hara... then I thought Na, would rather they starve so I can invade them easier ;)
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"If we weren't so weak, we'd be strong!"
What I mean is, if someone wanted a centrally located army to attack someone else, D'Hara could very well be interested in such an arrangement. We need food, and we need war.
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What I mean is, if someone wanted a centrally located army to attack someone else, D'Hara could very well be interested in such an arrangement. We need food, and we need war.
Perhaps you need a sign, tastefully written in permanent marker on a piece of stained cardboard:
"Will pillage for food"
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Why not threaten Madina? "Sell us food or we will invade you!" ;)
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Just his personal stockpile for that super huge unit he's gonna round up one day.
Did I not mention the 500 gold he spent on archers just before the attack on Candiels? That was fun. Recruited everything, then forgot I couldn't get to Candiels in a turn - best way to waste 500 gold ever! :P
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Perhaps you need a sign, tastefully written in permanent marker on a piece of stained cardboard:
"Will pillage for food"
Excellent! Or, we could offer "protection" to Madina and Auvrandil--"okay, whoever agrees to sell us more food gets our protection, whoever sells us less food...needs protection."
Then, we can walk down the streets of Paisly with our boomboxes on our shoulders and with our hats on sideways.
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Then, we can walk down the streets of Paisly with our boomboxes on our shoulders and with our hats on sideways.
This conversation is taking a very suspicious turn... ::)
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Excellent! Or, we could offer "protection" to Madina and Auvrandil--"okay, whoever agrees to sell us more food gets our protection, whoever sells us less food...needs protection."
Then, we can walk down the streets of Paisly with our boomboxes on our shoulders and with our hats on sideways.
Or you can just starve and die like you are..
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Or you can just starve and die like you are..
How much food does it take to feed 2500cs of troops? :P
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Or you can just starve and die like you are..
One of the main reasons I left D'Hara, tbh. I was just so sick of feeding a city, seeing the city die, and have nothing to show for it. D'Hara is an endless loop of misery.
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One of the main reasons I left D'Hara, tbh. I was just so sick of feeding a city, seeing the city die, and have nothing to show for it. D'Hara is an endless loop of misery.
You obviously never looked far for food. Halicos has been selling food to D'Hara for ages and as far as I'm aware Raviel & Port Raviel haven't had a bad bout of starvation in a while.
I should really send Halicos up there on a "Hi, I'm your food supplier" trip. The only contact I have up there is the Marquis of Raviel (which I only just noticed was in my contacts), so I could do with grabbing details for the Duke of Port Raviel.
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Anyways, back on topic.. who's looking forward for the next offensive?! Should be bloody and big 8)
Or when we cut off Jens' head :D
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You obviously never looked far for food. Halicos has been selling food to D'Hara for ages and as far as I'm aware Raviel & Port Raviel haven't had a bad bout of starvation in a while.
I should really send Halicos up there on a "Hi, I'm your food supplier" trip. The only contact I have up there is the Marquis of Raviel (which I only just noticed was in my contacts), so I could do with grabbing details for the Duke of Port Raviel.
Port Raviel and, especially, Paisly had been quite prosperous for quite some time, though always being right on the limit at the end of the seasons and often running out for a day or two. This last season was exceptionally brutal for both of them, though. Not as bad as poor Port Nebel, however. It's just so far from all civilized lands...
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Or when we cut off Jens' head :D
I quite like Jens, I've lost count of the amount of times he's seemingly escaped from Aurvandil's clutches. He's probably in for it this time though, unless he makes his way back home through Barca/D'Hara. He actually doing much damage on his looting runs? I can't imagine one person is really making a difference.
Not as bad as poor Port Nebel, however. It's just so far from all civilized lands...
Unfortunately Fatmilak can't reach Port Nebel. Once we get Lawataling and others back under control, I'm sure they'll be able to send food over. Just a shame we have to concentrate on attacking Aurvandil instead of fixing our own regions.....
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Anyways, back on topic.. who's looking forward for the next offensive?! Should be bloody and big 8)
Or when we cut off Jens' head :D
Or what about your character?
Who attacked Madina city (and obviously failed), ended up in Madinan prison and was then released in mercy even though he refused to apologies, to find him lieying about joining us just to join the frickin rebels?
Yeah, he was whining about not being treated well, in other words, he was quistioned on his attack in Madina city, which made him join aurvendil, but you do get that you kind of pissed off several MAdinans now.
Well played though... you fooled Abbot and you slightly changed his character by doing so.
He used to be so merciful, in doubt he won't any longer now.
you got him pretty frustrated.
Something else, perhaps there are Aurvendilians among us apart from your self.
Why did you execute a 1 month character of a new player who joined only 1,5 months ago?
I understand executing people like Sir Jens or even elder Madinans, perhaps even all Madinans, but young characters who have fought 2, 3 battles in there entire life?
I don't think this will help promoting the game and gain more players...
To all other people playing judge characters, i hope you won't copy this kind of behavior.
I find it personally quite distasteful.
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but you do get that you kind of pissed off several Madinans now.
You could say that we're...
*shades*
MADinans
YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAH (http://yeahbutton.com/)
But in all seriousness, executing a new noble was a little silly.
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Why did you execute a 1 month character of a new player who joined only 1,5 months ago?
So... what did this guy do to be executed?
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So... what did this guy do to be executed?
Somehow he managed to lose a few points of honour.
I really have no idea how - but he dropped to outlaw. I don't think ANY of us in Madina know how he lost 3 points of honour to hit that low.
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Huh... There really aren't that many ways a new player/noble can lose enough honor to get that low.
Troops deserted for non-payment?
Abandoned wounded men?
I don't suppose he got elected lord and then stepped down right away?
If he didn't start on Dwilight, did he emigrate there?
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Huh... There really aren't that many ways a new player/noble can lose enough honor to get that low.
Troops deserted for non-payment?
Abandoned wounded men?
I don't suppose he got elected lord and then stepped down right away?
If he didn't start on Dwilight, did he emigrate there?
I guess it is troop payment or something, he was never really clear of that, I helped him out to learn the game after he !@#$ed up a unit.
He was just getting the hang of it.
He got executed because they could, to set an example so to say.
He got caught because he tried to scout candiels(yeah we actually have to travel there because scouting over water is not possible), our information depends on the noble hearts of a crazy few...
There startegy won't work because, well, anyone who goes scouting in Candiels is just mad...
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YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAH (http://yeahbutton.com/)
Why don't they play the full song?
But yeah, a nice way to express saying: "YEAH!" :P (yeah!)
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Huh... There really aren't that many ways a new player/noble can lose enough honor to get that low.
Troops deserted for non-payment?
Abandoned wounded men?
I don't suppose he got elected lord and then stepped down right away?
If he didn't start on Dwilight, did he emigrate there?
Begging for family gold one too many times?
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As a new Noble without any family wealth he can't do that. Checking his page, he has 795 Family Wealth.
He started in Madina with no notable events before his execution.
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He just started a new character in Barca. ;) Haven't heard from him yet though.
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He just started a new character in Barca. ;) Haven't heard from him yet though.
good news, hes still playing the game :)
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Also he wasn't executed, he was tortured to death. Outlaws are always tortured to death according to game mechanics it would seem.
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I don't think this will help promoting the game and gain more players...
Ok, so let me get this straight. I play the game for my fun and entertainment.. but I have to play nice to new players in order to promote the game?
BULL!@#$!
Im gonna play my characters whatever way I like. His character was warned of the consequences. His death = his fault.
Or what about your character?
Who attacked Madina city (and obviously failed), ended up in Madinan prison and was then released in mercy even though he refused to apologies, to find him lieying about joining us just to join the frickin rebels?
Yeah, he was whining about not being treated well, in other words, he was quistioned on his attack in Madina city, which made him join aurvendil, but you do get that you kind of pissed off several MAdinans now.
Well played though... you fooled Abbot and you slightly changed his character by doing so.
He used to be so merciful, in doubt he won't any longer now.
you got him pretty frustrated.
Well the thing about that is, I planned on joining Madina on my travel down there, really I did. But I managed to forget to pay my men for a longggg time and 9 fled with 250 of my gold. In fact all of my gold. So the rest of my unit started leaving, too, until there were two left. With no option to disband them, pay them, or change to evade settings, I was forced to attack the city... and end up in prison.
And I highly doubt there are any spies in Madina. Why? Because I myself offered to spy for Aurvandil but was declined by their ruler, who told Hyperion that joining Aurvandil would do more good than spy for them. Anyways, there were some old Caerwynites who already had it out for me, what's a few more Madinans? Maybe Hyperion's goal should be to top the bounty board XD!
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Ok, so let me get this straight. I play the game for my fun and entertainment.. but I have to play nice to new players in order to promote the game?
BULL!@#$!
Im gonna play my characters whatever way I like. His character was warned of the consequences. His death = his fault.
It's long been etiquette to release new players and treat them more leniently than those who have played a long time, precisely for the goal of ensuring they remain in the game.
I don't think it's changed either - be nice to newbies, it's the older players we treat like crap :P
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Ok, so let me get this straight. I play the game for my fun and entertainment.. but I have to play nice to new players in order to promote the game?
BULL!@#$!
Im gonna play my characters whatever way I like. His character was warned of the consequences. His death = his fault.
Well the thing about that is, I planned on joining Madina on my travel down there, really I did. But I managed to forget to pay my men for a longggg time and 9 fled with 250 of my gold. In fact all of my gold. So the rest of my unit started leaving, too, until there were two left. With no option to disband them, pay them, or change to evade settings, I was forced to attack the city... and end up in prison.
And I highly doubt there are any spies in Madina. Why? Because I myself offered to spy for Aurvandil but was declined by their ruler, who told Hyperion that joining Aurvandil would do more good than spy for them. Anyways, there were some old Caerwynites who already had it out for me, what's a few more Madinans? Maybe Hyperion's goal should be to top the bounty board XD!
Your are playing a social game, which specifically says to play the game as you would with friends over a board game. If making allowances for other people goes against your idea of having fun, I suggest you review your social skills, or just go play a single player game.
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Ok, so let me get this straight. I play the game for my fun and entertainment.. but I have to play nice to new players in order to promote the game?
BULL!@#$!
You don't HAVE to.
You don't HAVE to be a dick, either.
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You don't HAVE to.
You don't HAVE to be a dick, either.
DING DING DING!
We have a winner.
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Ok, so let me get this straight. I play the game for my fun and entertainment.. but I have to play nice to new players in order to promote the game?
BULL!@#$!
Im gonna play my characters whatever way I like. His character was warned of the consequences. His death = his fault.
Well the thing about that is, I planned on joining Madina on my travel down there, really I did. But I managed to forget to pay my men for a longggg time and 9 fled with 250 of my gold. In fact all of my gold. So the rest of my unit started leaving, too, until there were two left. With no option to disband them, pay them, or change to evade settings, I was forced to attack the city... and end up in prison.
great logic, i like it.
So if i rob a local store and fail and get caught and tell them it happened on acident, i get released and pardoned?
Or if I test drive a bmw and drive it straight threw the car dealers show room, it's all ok because i don't know how to drive a car in the first place?
I'd really love to live in your world! :P
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great logic, i like it.
So if i rob a local store and fail and get caught and tell them it happened on acident, i get released and pardoned?
Or if I test drive a bmw and drive it straight threw the car dealers show room, it's all ok because i don't know how to drive a car in the first place?
I'd really love to live in your world! :P
Its the internet, isn't it a internationally protected right to act like a complete dick head on the Internet and pretend it is somehow held to different standards then those you would follow in face to face situations. I guess the fact that you are less likely to get punched in the face allows people to vent their inner jerk in relative safety. Perhaps that is the truth, the Internet reveals how people would actually behave when the chance of consequences is mostly removed.
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the Internet reveals how people would actually behave when the chance of consequences is mostly removed.
thus showing, who they truly are.
still we can put people on there spot when they act like a jerk, perhaps not as effective as in reality... but still :P
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His character was warned of the consequences. His death = his fault.
"It's not my fault! I didn't want to do it. I warned you what would happen. But you went and did it anyway. I had no choice. You made me do it. It's your fault!"
Seriously, I get the whole "keep it IC, and do what your character would do", but you occasionally need to temper your actions to keep the game fun for everyone. Consider it a challenge to find some way to let the guy live.
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It is of course very important to treat new players differently, much more in a way where you guide them and teach them how to properly play the game. However, I think that this whole incident where new players character has been executed will have a much different effect than most people think. I don't think he will be discouraged to play the game, but in fact encouraged. I mean...if someone tortured my char to death it would certainly give me a plenty of motives to continue playing the game and cutting off the head of that bastardly executor! Since this player already made a new character in Barca, I think he is on the right path for retribution. There is no greater motive that a fueling desire for vengeance. The death of his character has in fact drawn him into the plot very nicely, as probably he usually would not care that much.
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While I agree with being more leniant with newbs, that doesn't mean they shouldn't be accountable for their actions in any ways. It's a learning experience after all.
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I believe the nobles of Madina should think again when judging Aurvandil for executing a new player's character.
The noble still received messages after his death and before he was buried, this was his reaction:
"So I read through the scores of letters where the Madina nobles mocked him and laughed and rejoiced at his death."
That indicates to me that also little effort was made on Madina's part to help him understand the game mechanisms. And to mock a newbie for his ignorance is just a wrong as executing him.
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I believe the nobles of Madina should think again when judging Aurvandil for executing a new player's character.
The noble still received messages after his death and before he was buried, this was his reaction:
"So I read through the scores of letters where the Madina nobles mocked him and laughed and rejoiced at his death."
That indicates to me that also little effort was made on Madina's part to help him understand the game mechanisms. And to mock a newbie for his ignorance is just a wrong as executing him.
Indeed, I saw his message. That event wasn't about to make him quit. Rather, it seemed to make him more interested.
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The noble still received messages after his death and before he was buried, this was his reaction:
"So I read through the scores of letters where the Madina nobles mocked him and laughed and rejoiced at his death."
I'd like to see those messages because as a player of Madina, I didn't get any... I sent one to the Council which he wouldn't have seen, but from the whole realm I only saw good comments about him.
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I'd say mocking a noob for being executed would make an interesting case for the Magistrates.
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I'd say mocking a noob for being executed would make an interesting case for the Magistrates.
I would agree with this. I don't know how I would rule on it, but I'd love to argue about it.
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Social Contract:
"Do not insult or harrass other players "
"Absolutely no verbal attacks, insults or harrassment of other players."
None of the other rules (IR, rules and policies page, etc) mention anything about treating newcomers differently.
Of course, there would have to be some evidence presented.
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Social Contract:
"Do not insult or harrass other players "
"Absolutely no verbal attacks, insults or harrassment of other players."
None of the other rules (IR, rules and policies page, etc) mention anything about treating newcomers differently.
Of course, there would have to be some evidence presented.
It would be related, I assume, to the social contracts about playing like friends around a table at a board game. If you introduce a friend to a new game, you aren't gonna go mock him if he makes mistakes (if you intend for him to keep playing with you later).
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Can this part be split off into its own "don't bash noobs" thread and keep this one about the civil war?
On topic: Recently found out I had a Lord of D'Hara in Halicos' contacts book, makes life so much easier now I know when caravans shall be coming. Let's hope some of that lovely gold gets here in time for the next attack, I sense another 500+ gold splurge coming up! :P
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It started of as hate Aurvandil more because they execute new player's characters. I always enjoy pointing fingers to Madina as well. So you could say it is much like and about the civil war. ;)
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Please - he was mocked In-game because of his In-game character's behavior. We also thought he might have been a spy, right up till his death.
That I recall, there was only one "mocking" letter, and several that reprimanded the mocker for it - all for In-game reasons.
Furthermore, I'm sure the mocker - and probably the judge who executed him and plenty of other characters in the area - weren't even aware he was a new player. We don't all spend time reading everyone's user page or pouring over the wiki
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That I recall, there was only one "mocking" letter, and several that reprimanded the mocker for it - all for In-game reasons.
I must really be missing something. I only see one from you (this the one you're referring to?), then 3 defending him (Abbot, Coturnix and Warren).
Furthermore, I'm sure the mocker - and probably the judge who executed him and plenty of other characters in the area - weren't even aware he was a new player.
Actually, I was aware but I still mocked. Bad of me, I know, but I did it only to the Council and made it rather clear it was because he had 4 honour and was an Outlaw.
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I must really be missing something. I only see one from you (this the one you're referring to?), then 3 defending him (Abbot, Coturnix and Warren).
Actually, I was aware but I still mocked. Bad of me, I know, but I did it only to the Council and made it rather clear it was because he had 4 honour and was an Outlaw.
precisely. 1 mocking him (from me), which wasn't even a "direct mock" if you like ("It seems we may have found common ground with the rebels"), and several (3) saying we shouldn't mock him even if he was a pain, since he died for Madina. Didn't know about your council letter, but neither did he.
I had asked permission from Abbot to stab him a few days earlier because I thought he was a spy and in Madina to stir up trouble.
I think the people on the forum really have no idea what they are talking about.
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I believe the nobles of Madina should think again when judging Aurvandil for executing a new player's character.
The noble still received messages after his death and before he was buried, this was his reaction:
"So I read through the scores of letters where the Madina nobles mocked him and laughed and rejoiced at his death."
That indicates to me that also little effort was made on Madina's part to help him understand the game mechanisms. And to mock a newbie for his ignorance is just a wrong as executing him.
I think one or two nobles commented on it at most in a negative way, and really their characters are kind of jerks.
Most of us are just as outraged IC as we are OOC.
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While I agree with being more leniant with newbs, that doesn't mean they shouldn't be accountable for their actions in any ways. It's a learning experience after all.
Sure, but many more options to punish the noble than torturing him to death.
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Sure, but many more options to punish the noble than torturing him to death.
That's flavor text for any execution of a noble with no honor.
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Sure, but many more options to punish the noble than torturing him to death.
Right, like actually torturing him?
Or, you are right, we should give him the standard "rot in my cells for 7 days while I completely ignore you". That's much more exciting for newbies.
To think of it, new players haven't achieved much of anything (the aren't new anymore when they have). They are the ones executions hurt the least. Indeed, it takes very little away from them, and gives them all of the standard perks, plus rather important visibility and notoriety. Nobody knew who the hell that guy was before. Now, everyone is speaking of him. That's gold.
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Right, like actually torturing him?
Or, you are right, we should give him the standard "rot in my cells for 7 days while I completely ignore you". That's much more exciting for newbies.
*shrugs* Deportation? Hold him for a couple days, give him a verbal warning, release? Take his gold? etc. Just seems like better things to do that killing off the guys characters right off the bat. Just feel like it gives a bad impression of the game. I'm glad the guy stuck around, but I don't feel like that the reaction most people would have.
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I'd say it would depend entirely on the player--some would hate that, others would love to have something interesting happen in the first month. I mean, he's got a fame point!
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I'd say it would depend entirely on the player--some would hate that, others would love to have something interesting happen in the first month. I mean, he's got a fame point!
It's a new character, it's not as if he is actually losing anything.
If anything, I think it makes the player feel that big things can and *do* happen. Really, it's an achievement on its own, much like getting a first lordship.
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Just because you feel he wouldn't be losing anything doesn't mean he isn't. In fact, that's a very, very naive way of looking at it. He could have formed a relationship that would have seen him having a lordship in a couple months (purely hypothetical situation), but since his character has been killed off, he has to start over again, and it could be over a year before he gets another chance to get a lordship position.
Also, whether or not he could have heard you mocking him is irrelevant. It is a petty thing to do to a new player, and can also spread via word of mouth.
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but since his character has been killed off, he has to start over again, and it could be over a year before he gets another chance to get a lordship position.
If he could have gotten to where you say he could have gotten in 1.5 months, why would it take him a year to get there again with another character? He can just as easily use this to his advantage, you know. People on a quest for vengeance against a common enemy can make for powerful assets.
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We really are starting to get slightly away from topic now, can we please split this off and we can get back to trash talking about rebel scum? Thanks.
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Pah, he could always run in Barca's Judge election and play up the sympathy card. If he played it at all well, I could see how his character could be Lady Justice Flavia Constantia :)
So, think there'll be a huge battle before winter kicks in? Not asking who'd attack, but will this dose of silence continue for long or soon be shattered?
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Pah, he could always run in Barca's Judge election and play up the sympathy card. If he played it at all well, I could see how his character could be Lady Justice Flavia Constantia :)
So, think there'll be a huge battle before winter kicks in? Not asking who'd attack, but will this dose of silence continue for long or soon be shattered?
There was plans to be, but I am not sure we will see one now.
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Pah, he could always run in Barca's Judge election and play up the sympathy card. If he played it at all well, I could see how his character could be Lady Justice Flavia Constantia :)
So, think there'll be a huge battle before winter kicks in? Not asking who'd attack, but will this dose of silence continue for long or soon be shattered?
just look at the CS stats.
apparently a climax has still not been reached.
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So who's excited for this huge battle we're about to have!? ;D
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So who's excited for this huge battle we're about to have!? ;D
I am, and I'm not even in it! ;D
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wut wut wut?
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wut wut wut?
Huge battle about to happen in Tower Fatmilak. :o
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Report from Hireshmont II Vellos (2 hours ago)
Message sent to all full members of "Véinsørmoot" (24 recipients)
For the curious, a vast battle is about to occur in Tower Fatmilak. 58 nobles from four realms (Terran, Aurvandil, Madina, and Fissoa) are present (though, of course, I am not present as a belligerent).
The list of nobles is:
Loathin Fantom, Earl of Mangai
Vallyn Rothach, Grand Doge and Lord Admiral of Madina, Marshal of the Madina Republican Army
Hireshmont II Vellos (Priest of Triunism)
Beaumains Varrus (Knight of Madina)
Fionn MacCumhal, Duke of Tower Fatmilak
Sorbad D'Saferate (Lord)
Periurium Baceolus, Earl of Libba
Ocsric George, Baron of Laraibina
Coturnix Struthionis, Marquess of Madina Gardens
Sir Malificar Jeckyl (Knight of Madina)
Atticus Nightshroud, Earl of Agl
Sir Hyperion Harte (Knight of Candiels)
Baldwin Amalric (Knight of Tubrel)
Tarajist Balewind, High Marshal of Grand Duchy of Fissoa, Marshal of the Royal Guardians of Fissoa
Scyhtherion Principe (Knight of Candiels)
Reign Beaux Nephthys, Earl of Candiels Fields
Florence Endellion (Dame of Candiels)
Bendix Lancer (Knight of Madina)
Gwrtheyrnion Vertigern (Lord)
Mendicant Anhangar, High Sovereign of Aurvandil, Duke of Candiels
Kirino Kishiro (Dame of Madina)
Mhorbid Lundstrom II (Knight of Candiels Fields)
Sothcynning Lurdigala (Knight of Candiels)
Fujiwara Yusuke, Viscount of Tubrel
Earendil Archeanis, Marshal of the Chevaliers Hausos d'Auziwandilaz
Tyrus Azriel (Knight of Madina)
Allomere de' Striguile, Knight Hausos At Arms of Aurvandil, Viscount of Zerujil
Sarit Noyan, Arbiter Of Justice and Royal Purser of Aurvandil, Marquess of Evanburg
Henry Elegant (Knight of Madina)
Aethelflaed Vanimedle' (Dame of Agl)
Infaustus Godhelm Brythonic (Knight of Lusitania)
Shinato Doll, Viscount of Lusitania
Fal'Cie Nachtmahr (Knight of Candiels)
Hereward Grungir (Knight of Candiels)
Helm Altenahr, Marshal of the Knights of the Griffon Rising
Herousmalswyrd Metisette (Knight of Agl)
Tarkus Graves (Knight of Madina)
Raviel Armityle (Knight of Agl)
Sheer Khan Naga (Knight of Fissoa)
Fernando Marcomanni, Baron of Bol
Daichar Voeder, Baron of Panabuk
Sir Alterf Blackmore, Baron of Lugagun
Alecto Guile (Knight of Lusitania)
Balzk Aldarion (Knight of Madina)
Macedon Lyirchtsars (Knight of Candiels)
Shaw Canton (Outlaw)
Tayron Sutherland (Knight of Tubrel)
Leonidas Aisin (Knight of Madina Gardens)
Leafrick Windodger (Dame of Madina Gardens)
Treare Xariz (Knight of Zerujil)
Matharis Azul (Knight of Candiels Fields)
Sidonie Mustard (Dame of Evanburg)
Laurence Darlor Lawrence (Knight of Madina)
Wallace Argyll (Knight of Zerujil)
Serpico Radnor Farron (Knight of Zerujil)
Vahanian Blint (Knight of Panabuk)
Faramond Gallien Griffirtaen (Noble)
Philippe Lockheart (Noble)
So great a host has never before been mustered in the south.
Long Days and Pleasant Nights,
Hireshmont II Vellos
Mootgram of Véinsørmoot
Huge Battle Fought (31 minutes ago)
Rumours spread and tales are sung about a huge battle in Tower Fatmilak:
Aurvandil vs. Grand Duchy of Fissoa, Madina
Estimated strengths: 2020 men vs. 1190 men
The Madina Republican Army (Madina), sponsored by Luan Agenor (Lord), were led into battle by Marshal Vallyn Rothach.
The Knights of the Griffon Rising (Madina), sponsored by Vallyn Rothach, Grand Doge and Lord Admiral of Madina, Marshal of the Madina Republican Army, were led into battle by Marshal Helm Altenahr.
The Chevaliers Hausos d'Auziwandilaz (Aurvandil), sponsored by Mendicant Anhangar, High Sovereign of Aurvandil, Duke of Candiels, were led into battle by Marshal Earendil Archeanis.
Philippe Lockheart (Noble of Aurvandil) was captured by Henry Elegant's unit.
Macedon Lyirchtsars (Knight of Candiels, Aurvandil) was captured by Alterf Blackmore's unit.
Infaustus Godhelm Brythonic (Knight of Lusitania, Aurvandil) was captured by Laurence Darlor Lawrence's unit.
Defender Victory!
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Wow, Madina was outnumbered? How is that possible?
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Looks like Aurvrandil recruited large numbers of weak troops, while Madina had smaller numbers of elite troops, plus the walls.
A battle report from in-region would be great--I'm actually in summerdale at the moment.
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Aurvandil's CS has been spiking lately. That's a lot of men for such a small realm!
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Aurvendils forces are not as good indeed, but still they reached about 19K CS with 2K men.
Yes there indeed 2k men from Aurvendil.
Which is still extremely puzzling.
In game everyone is almost certain that in secret it's the moot whos funding this, because they can't explain it other wise.
also just for the battle they also upgraded there stronghold to a fortress...
Battle report:
ID=170925 Hash=e98d060985962c5a
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For those interesting, OOC obviously. And gotta love level 2 fortifications. . .
http://www.filefactory.com/file/ced932a/n/TowerFatmilakSept232011.htm
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Aurvendils forces are not as good indeed, but still they reached about 19K CS with 2K men.
Yes there indeed 2k men from Aurvendil.
Which is still extremely puzzling.
In game everyone is almost certain that in secret it's the moot whos funding this, because they can't explain it other wise.
also just for the battle they also upgraded there stronghold to a fortress...
Battle report:
ID=170925 Hash=e98d060985962c5a
I REALLY want to know OOC where they get the funds. If it is just the differential tax bonus from the coding then it's a huge benefit, one that I'm pretty impressed by. Also their units ARE pretty cheap. . .
IC, Vallyn's pretty convinced Barca is funneling funds, even if Terran and D'Hara don't know about it :P Oh wait. . they gave them a gold producing region. That's like giving them gold! :D lol.
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ps, i wonder why they choose for archer opening knowing that there archers suck and madinan archers rule.
Also we should archive all messages sent by mendicant and the other one or two nobles thatare really great liers.
I liked there messages, how ridiculous they are :P
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I'm not even sure I know what's true or not anymore when it comes to that part of the conversation :D
But, it's a lie! But, it sounds. . .so. . .goooood. Right! I'm not on their side! DAMNIT.
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Aurvandil just lost 10k CS. I guess Madina is striking back now, huh?
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For those interesting, OOC obviously. And gotta love level 2 fortifications. . .
http://www.filefactory.com/file/ced932a/n/TowerFatmilakSept232011.htm
I appreciate that FileFactory is free and everything, but, wow, could they shove some more ads in?
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Also we should archive all messages sent by mendicant and the other one or two nobles thatare really great liers.
I liked there messages, how ridiculous they are :P
We can't give something we do not have, i.e. we do not have any gold (at least not much).
ps, i wonder why they choose for archer opening knowing that there archers suck and madinan archers rule.
Choosing for an archer opening was not a bad move, as they have 500 archers. But then position the infantry somewhere in the back, and give the archers more time to shoot.
Also, they had 1 siege engine for every 50 infantry. There the quantity of the infantry becomes a large issue.
My advise, recruit quality over quantity (but I assume all recruits availible in Candiels were recruited for the siege.), and try to have 1 siege engine for every 20 to 25 infantry.
However with the fortifications reduced to a palisade, the battle at sunset could be just as interesting.
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Choosing for an archer opening was not a bad move, as they have 500 archers. But then position the infantry somewhere in the back, and give the archers more time to shoot.
However with the fortifications reduced to a palisade, the battle at sunset could be just as interesting.
I would disagree - Madina has excellent archers and had as many, if not more CS in archers. If we had fewer Archers, such an opening would've been a good move. Here not so much.
As for sunset - yes, that should be most interesting indeed. I'm looking forward to it.
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I would disagree. Archers will not clime the walls, therefore just sacrafice them in order to do as much damage as possible, because you know they will die as well when Madina defeated the infantry and leaves the fortification to hunt the archers at the end of the battle.
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I'm not even sure I know what's true or not anymore when it comes to that part of the conversation :D
But, it's a lie! But, it sounds. . .so. . .goooood. Right! I'm not on their side! DAMNIT.
Someone has a bad memory... :P
It's quite simple, Madina always has an open stance to foreigners as there is alot of land still to be claimed.
The more landowners, the stronger republic.
Both Langford, Florence and many others realized that.
Libero empire warned of several nobles that at that time wanted to migrate into madina.
They tried to take the realm in a violent rebellion and where banned from the north.
Florence and others agreed to full tolerance, grant them land and in return of such tolerance and good will from the republic, they'd be excellent additions to the realm.
The duchy of candies was without lords and with additional lands to be claimed north and north west.
These lands where granted to the Libero rebels.
Everything went fine apart from a few conflicts between fatmilak and candiels about prices that never was settled, there was a big cloud of apathy over the republic at that time.
Mostly claimed to be connected to Sages reign in Madina and perhaps the scars of paisly that just wouldn't heal that got madinans down and no wars on the horizon.
The conflict between candiels and fatmilak was perhaps hugley overshadowed by the conflict between madinan lords and the goverment with Governor Sage, who refused to step down after a very long time of protests and demands.
Eventually the lords decided for drastic measures and fueled by others, refused to sell the city food and eventually it revolted and the peasants kicked Sage out of his rusty throne.
Then sudenly shortly after without any communication in the grand council or in the realm, Candiels seceded and formed Aurvendil.
Sage followed, as he had lost his position in Madina city, which he held thil the last peasants died from hunger.
Florence followed as she was partly blamed for the secession as she appointed the rebels, some even thought it looked like a set up between her and the Libero rebels.
it declared independence with the reason it felt held back by the republic and was monopolized in it's food by fatmilak into paying too much which it said it couldn't pay.
But in reality, the first perhaps few months of Aurvendil, it struggled with starvation worse then before.
The Republic assaulted Candiels and took military control, several friendly takeovers failled and then decided to leave, (the tone of the war was not set as brutal as it is now, because else the republic would have just looted the city rogue), candiels almost went rogue but Aurvendil managed to regain it's self.
Eventually it managed to self sustain it self and that is where it started to grow and proved to be partly right in being held back by the Republic.
Offcourse not in short term, but it did on long term, exceedingly.
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I REALLY want to know OOC where they get the funds.
I would like to know that too. No matter how I run the numbers, I just don't understand where they got 2,000 men. I mean, that's about 6% of the population of their realm.... equivalent deployment would be like if Madina deployed 4,000 men.
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Remember that smaller realms have cheaper recruitment costs. I don't know the exact progression, but I do know that as the size of your realm increases, so does the cost of recruiting men. A 50 50/50 infantry center in Morek would cost more than the exact same infantry center in Auvrandil.
A smaller realm can run a significantly higher tax rate as well. I don't know if that would be reflected on the income graph or not... I don't think there has been a significant battle for a while either. They have had a lot of time to build that army. They won't be able to rebuild their army to that size without a fair amount of time.
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Recruit as much as possible. Do not worry about payments because most of the soldiers will die during the siege? Perhaps financed with investments and requesting family gold?
Just imagine 31 people asking for family funds, that raises an additional 3.100 gold. Of course, that doesn't sound likely. But I am willing to believe that there is a strong core group who is willing to invest heavily in this war.
:-X Also, why would Aurvandilian player tell Madinan players how they manage to wield such an impressive army. You know they will use it against you.
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Remember that smaller realms have cheaper recruitment costs. I don't know the exact progression, but I do know that as the size of your realm increases, so does the cost of recruiting men. A 50 50/50 infantry center in Morek would cost more than the exact same infantry center in Auvrandil.
A smaller realm can run a significantly higher tax rate as well. I don't know if that would be reflected on the income graph or not... I don't think there has been a significant battle for a while either. They have had a lot of time to build that army. They won't be able to rebuild their army to that size without a fair amount of time.
Exactly. So they can recruit more for less, and they have their significantly higher tax rate. If that's all that's going on, it is VERY impressive - and I've never seen such a good push from a small realm. C'Thonia wasn't able to field that much - but they did not have half as many nobles.
And no, it does not effect their chart from what some of the dev's have said - it's an "estimate", so high taxes would provide them a lot more gold than they appear to get - which I suspect is at least a good portion of their extra funds.
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I would like to know that too. No matter how I run the numbers, I just don't understand where they got 2,000 men. I mean, that's about 6% of the population of their realm.... equivalent deployment would be like if Madina deployed 4,000 men.
It took them about a month go from 8k CS to 20k CS. My guess is it will take them a little while to get back into that neighborhood, but then I suspect that Aurvandil will probably confound everyone's expectations, in this regard and many others. However, I don't see what you're so surprised about. The nobles currently in Aurvandil have a long and storied history of turning tiny, underfunded realms into military powerhouses against all odds. What they have done now is no more surprising than what they achieved in Thulsoma and then Averoth after that, perhaps less so since they have considerably more resources this time than they've ever had before. In point of fact I am entirely unsurprised by this turn of events. If you had ever had to deal with the Saxons directly in game, you wouldn't be surprised either.
I wish Madina good luck; may you have as much joy in dealing with these delightful characters as I have over the years.
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How many of the Saxons ended up in Auvrandil? They are quite tenacious!
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Quite a few Saxons, not sure what the count is though. And it's pretty hilarious Madina has to call of Fissoa for help; we all had a laugh over that.
Great battle in Tower Fatmilak, we'll be back soon for more shenanigans! :D
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How many of the Saxons ended up in Auvrandil? They are quite tenacious!
Pretty much all of them... Vanimedle', Guile, Amalric, Metisette, Brythonic, Lyirchstars, Lundstrom II, Armityle, Principe, Lurdigala, Sutherland, and Blint are all there, all in all about a third of their nobility are actually Saxons straight from Thulsoma. I would also suspect that a number of the brand new families there, as well as some of the Averothian families, are part of the same group, just without the IC history. My guess is that at least half the realm is part of the group that turned Thulsoma and Averoth into fortress states. Congratulations Madina! You've won the best-enemies-ever sweepstakes. And it couldn't have happened to a nicer group of people! ;)
Seriously, the Saxons make great enemies, I'll give them that much. No one talks trash like they do, or has better propaganda, and you can hardly call them pushovers. They were always badly outmatched by the combined might of the SA realms in the North, but they certainly gave us a lot of trouble. I will be very interested to see how they do with less enemies and more resources, and very interested to see how the Maroccidens as a whole reacts to them. Let the South feel the fury of the Saxons' scorn! ;D
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With all that food we have to import, I don't expect anyone in D'Hara is financing anyone. Well, except by food sales, of course, which we do with both Aurvandil and Madina at the same price.
Barca? Where would they get the gold for that...
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Pretty much all of them... Vanimedle', Guile, Amalric, Metisette, Brythonic, Lyirchstars, Lundstrom II, Armityle, Principe, Lurdigala, Sutherland, and Blint are all there,
That list pretty much put together our list of people who have "up and left" Madina right after a battle, then claimed Aurvandil was clearly the only choice and Madina was useless.
All without any actual character RP or interaction with the Realm. Just quiet for weeks than, "Oh hey, everyone should defect to Aurvandil like I am because they are better".
IC stuff - Hyperion and the like is cool and entertaining for the most part. Someone who never utters a word, than writes a lengthy IC claim about how great it is to defect to Aurvandil and encourages everyone else to do the same as pretty much their only message ever to the Realm? Suspicious :P
Good battles all around so far, but I might crack down on Nathan :P I need Halicos's gold - and Chenier knows how hard it is to pry ANYTHING from that guys grip. It's like pulling teeth, except Halicos ends up convincing you to pull your own . . .
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Good battles all around so far, but I might crack down on Nathan :P I need Halicos's gold - and Chenier knows how hard it is to pry ANYTHING from that guys grip. It's like pulling teeth, except Halicos ends up convincing you to pull your own . . .
Everyone keeps talking about Halicos, but I honestly can never remember who that is. Food has a region of origin, which is about all I pay attention to. Knowing which realm that region belongs to is a plus, but not necessary.
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Everyone keeps talking about Halicos, but I honestly can never remember who that is.
He's the one who insists on selling at 50gp to you :)
Heck, I had to negotiate him down to sell food to Madina, because he'd rather sell to you than to our own city ;)
He's a greedy ol' coot. He'd buy every drop of food in Madina for 35gp and sell it to D'Hara for 50gp if he could :P
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Everyone keeps talking about Halicos, but I honestly can never remember who that is. Food has a region of origin, which is about all I pay attention to. Knowing which realm that region belongs to is a plus, but not necessary.
Halicos Stalker, Baron of Fatimak.
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Halicos Stalker, Baron of Fatimak.
Ah, Fatmilak.
What's the big deal with Fatmilak? Most of my madinians import don't transit by Fatmilak's warehouses. A good chunk does, I believe, but not most of it. Not to mention that I've had more caravans than before leave from foreign regions to sell directly to me lately.
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Ah, Fatmilak.
What's the big deal with Fatmilak? Most of my madinians import don't transit by Fatmilak's warehouses. A good chunk does, I believe, but not most of it. Not to mention that I've had more caravans than before leave from foreign regions to sell directly to me lately.
Halicos pretty much sets our foreign sales prices - so any of the complaints about us being expensive. . .blame Halicos :D He wont even sell in Madina for less than 45gp. And they do produce HUGE surpluses of food, probably our top food production region.
And I think you've made a good name for purchasing food ;)
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Halicos pretty much sets our foreign sales prices - so any of the complaints about us being expensive. . .blame Halicos :D He wont even sell in Madina for less than 45gp. And they do produce HUGE surpluses of food, probably our top food production region.
And I think you've made a good name for purchasing food ;)
Markets have been open for quite some time. Maybe I should stop by and remind every lord that he can send caravans to Paisly directly? It's always nice to have others assume the risks of caravans and deliver the food themselves.
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Markets have been open for quite some time. Maybe I should stop by and remind every lord that he can send caravans to Paisly directly? It's always nice to have others assume the risks of caravans and deliver the food themselves.
The more souls, the merrier!
Madinas will always value any visit.
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Markets have been open for quite some time. Maybe I should stop by and remind every lord that he can send caravans to Paisly directly? It's always nice to have others assume the risks of caravans and deliver the food themselves.
I've asked the lord of Madina (city) to do the same, but he doesn't want to assume the risk.
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Markets have been open for quite some time. Maybe I should stop by and remind every lord that he can send caravans to Paisly directly? It's always nice to have others assume the risks of caravans and deliver the food themselves.
If we had come at the same time, it'd be like a modern diplomatic visit: one of us carrying the actual ambassadorial bully-pulpit, the other coming with piles of cash and trade deals.
FDI!!!!
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The more souls, the merrier!
Madinas will always value any visit.
If we had come at the same time, it'd be like a modern diplomatic visit: one of us carrying the actual ambassadorial bully-pulpit, the other coming with piles of cash and trade deals.
FDI!!!!
Actually, I was thinking of just asking you to do it. The end result for me is the same, really, whether it transits by Fatmilak or comes to me directly, as it'll always be for 50 gold. It's actually in my interests for them to keep their food at home for cheap and have my caravans pick them up.
I've asked the lord of Madina (city) to do the same, but he doesn't want to assume the risk.
Risk? There is basically zero risk for Madina, it's ajdacent to Paisly. And we never have rogues. Never. Indeed, he did send some shipments recently.
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I've asked the lord of Madina (city) to do the same, but he doesn't want to assume the risk.
then when did you ask that?
when the caravans where buggy, a drought ocured and the city fastly growing, Abbot did not export anything of course.
Now he does(350/450 food this week alone).
If prices fall in Paisly or a drought occurs, the export will stop.
Winter will also probably stop or minimize export.
Its a bit weird to asume that asking one time for something via a letter would just say everything for the present and the future.
Perhaps Abbot even missed your letter.
Remember that visiting personally will make you remembered and the message much clearer.
Besides, it gives fun rps, especialy in Madina where Abbot will always try to get you really drunk and !@#$ed into oblivion by his many whores :P
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where Abbot will always try to get you really drunk and !@#$ed into oblivion by his many whores :P
I almost considered visiting Madina, until I read this :P
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I almost considered visiting Madina, until I read this :P
you must be crazy... ???
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you must be crazy... ???
Dude, I think I have nearly killed myself laughing over most of your RP's.
I love to think of Abbot as that balding, short, fat guy who just sweats and HATES having to do anything physical at all. The image of him trudging through the jungles in Madina sulling his robes and boots . . .just kills me. Especially knowing he'd rather be back in Madina drinking brandy and reminiscing over some old battle in Paisly or something.
Lazy, Fat, and terribly unfit. . . Abbot and Halicos make up two of my favourite RP'd characters in Madina. I think only Langford tops you guys. . .and that's cause he was constantly on opiates while making important realm decisions. LOL. Good quality RP's to know that your Doge is a drug addict :D
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Dude, I think I have nearly killed myself laughing over most of your RP's.
I love to think of Abbot as that balding, short, fat guy who just sweats and HATES having to do anything physical at all. The image of him trudging through the jungles in Madina sulling his robes and boots . . .just kills me. Especially knowing he'd rather be back in Madina drinking brandy and reminiscing over some old battle in Paisly or something.
Lazy, Fat, and terribly unfit. . . Abbot and Halicos make up two of my favourite RP'd characters in Madina. I think only Langford tops you guys. . .and that's cause he was constantly on opiates while making important realm decisions. LOL. Good quality RP's to know that your Doge is a drug addict :D
hehe, thanks man, that was always my goal with Abbot.
imagine how worked up he got since he had to join the griffons traveling all over the island all the time.
He can't wait to be back in his city.
Also, you might be surprised how many great and important decisions(for the whole world) where made by not only drug adicts(and alcoholics) but also severally mentally ill persons.
Hell, the whole third reich was fueled by amphetamine, with the crazy king of speed him self as it's emperor.
And not to forget boris jeltsin, who was a heavy bipolar manic and addicted to his medication and alcohol.
The whole 'freedom' of russia rested on his shoulders alone, yet he pulled it off.
Some people actually need there fix to function, and i do not think thats fully because of simple addiction.
There great personalities may be capable of doing great things, but most of the time just stand in the way of there selves.
To cope witht hem selves there ambitions and the world around them, a little help from there 'friend(s)' could mean the difference between functionality and total collapse or even life and death.
I am not sure how much Abbot fits in to this.
I think hes just living by the hakuna matata philosphy, carpe diem.
He likes the good things in life, perhaps a little to much! :P
But as Abbot would say: "i'd rather die young and drunk, then old and sober. What value has life if it's not beeing lived?"
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I admit I was surprised by those two huge battle reports. Why did Aurvandil bother staying around for the second round? That troop summary showed them outnumbered by a huge margin. Doesn't really make sense for them to have stuck around for the second battle.
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Well, except by food sales, of course, which we do with both Aurvandil and Madina at the same price.
That's interesting. The rebels were all shouting at Halicos for selling for 50 gold, saying that he puts money before peasants (which he does!) and that Aurvandil would be free of all that.
Good battles all around so far, but I might crack down on Nathan :P I need Halicos's gold - and Chenier knows how hard it is to pry ANYTHING from that guys grip. It's like pulling teeth, except Halicos ends up convincing you to pull your own . . .
Well obviously. Your teeth are rotted from eating terrible food from other regions. You should get rid of them to save you pain and then start buying Fatmilakian food, the only food known to give you fresh breath beautiful, teeth and a healthy body! Now mixed with only 75% crushed rock!
He'd buy every drop of food in Madina for 35gp and sell it to D'Hara for 50gp if he could :P
40gp actually. Indeed! Just think of the profit!
On a completely unrelated note: Luria Nova may not get their food supplies this time around.
However, on a related note: I found out how much gold Corin has. I almost cried. I think he could single-handedly take on the Aurvandil forces if he had enough honour to recruit the men. He's likely got a lot more since I asked too.
Abbot and Halicos make up two of my favourite RP'd characters in Madina.
Thanks! I'm having a ridiculous amount of fun playing Halicos :D
I think only Langford tops you guys. . .
Langford tops everyone, that guy was hilariously brilliant, such a shame he's no longer with us :(
Why did Aurvandil bother staying around for the second round?
Probably people who forgot to turn back around and go home, or they wanted to try and do as much damage as they could so that Madina can't follow them back.
I'm also rather miffed Aurvandil attacked whilst I was away for the weekend, Halicos needs those honour points to try and overtake Tarajist :P
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then when did you ask that?
when the caravans where buggy, a drought ocured and the city fastly growing, Abbot did not export anything of course.
Now he does(350/450 food this week alone).
If prices fall in Paisly or a drought occurs, the export will stop.
Winter will also probably stop or minimize export.
Its a bit weird to asume that asking one time for something via a letter would just say everything for the present and the future.
Perhaps Abbot even missed your letter.
Remember that visiting personally will make you remembered and the message much clearer.
Besides, it gives fun rps, especialy in Madina where Abbot will always try to get you really drunk and !@#$ed into oblivion by his many whores :P
I don't have the older letter, it's been a while. You wouldn't want me to post it in its' entirety anyway.
Letter from Abbot Nosferatus (13 days, 10 hours ago)
Greetings old friend,
Are you still in the food business?
Madina city is selling food for 50 gold per 100 bushels.
500 food is currently for sale.
[REDACTED]
A Fare Well,
Abbot Nosferatus
Lord Court Master of Madina, Duke of Madina
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I admit I was surprised by those two huge battle reports. Why did Aurvandil bother staying around for the second round? That troop summary showed them outnumbered by a huge margin. Doesn't really make sense for them to have stuck around for the second battle.
Well the first one was just awesome ;) Best battle I've been in for a while and I wasnt sure we were gonna pull through honestly.
Why - because . . .uh. I'd like to think it's because Vallyn told them to take their forces and run between their legs :D And they opted to stay and fight instead because of that.
I suspect it's because they wanted to try and destroy the fortifications some more - but we had more than enough to deal with them on an open field at that point, never mind the walls.
They even changed from Archer Opening to Infantry Charge - not that it would do much at that point.
Staying the second battle cost them a LOT of troops and a ton of wounded/captured nobles. I've been hunting down the rest of their forces for the last bit for amusement. also cause I'd rather they didn't take them back across the straight.
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That's interesting. The rebels were all shouting at Halicos for selling for 50 gold, saying that he puts money before peasants (which he does!) and that Aurvandil would be free of all that.
Well, I assume that is from when they were buying food, as opposed to how they are now selling it. Our price is also, for the sake of convenience, the same for everyone who sends caravans our way.
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Well, I assume that is from when they were buying food, as opposed to how they are now selling it.
Nope, they were selling it as Lords of Madina. They were selling for 35 gold and Halicos for 50 gold, which is when he started selling to D'Hara I think - priced out of my own realm, so sell abroad!
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Nope, they were selling it as Lords of Madina. They were selling for 35 gold and Halicos for 50 gold, which is when he started selling to D'Hara I think - priced out of my own realm, so sell abroad!
I don't understand. What were they unhappy about if they were selling food all along?
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I don't understand. What were they unhappy about if they were selling food all along?
. . .
You got me :)
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. . .
You got me :)
I'm actually quite certain that they were complaining about food being too expensive therefore Candiels was starving. Therefore, they were a new importer at the time...?
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I'm actually quite certain that they were complaining about food being too expensive therefore Candiels was starving. Therefore, they were a new importer at the time...?
Ah. Well. Now you have the right question.
If the Lords who went with Mendicant were already selling food, and Mendicant was unable to buy food. . .where did his money go?
Oh wait - he conquered 3-4 regions before he defected. . . could be where the money was going :D
His "the city was starving" was a BS excuse, always was. There was plenty of food at cheap prices. He just never bought any. Hell I sat in Candiels for a week with 200 bushels and he never opened the market for me :P
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Let me be even more concise.
Rumours (ooc from one of our Lords since I can't actually SEE our food) has it that there is enough food in Madinan lands to make you pay us more than your region produces in one week and we'd still have surplus. :)
There is no possible way that guy could not find any bushels of food in 9 regions to buy.
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Ah. Well. Now you have the right question.
If the Lords who went with Mendicant were already selling food, and Mendicant was unable to buy food. . .where did his money go?
Oh wait - he conquered 3-4 regions before he defected. . . could be where the money was going :D
His "the city was starving" was a BS excuse, always was. There was plenty of food at cheap prices. He just never bought any. Hell I sat in Candiels for a week with 200 bushels and he never opened the market for me :P
In other words, his duchy produced food deficits, and then when he TOed 3-4 regions, he then produced surpluses?
I get that he wasn't buying the food because he was a cheapskate and not before it was unavailable, but I'm assuming here that the lords of his own duchy would be selling more cheaply to him to prevent starvation.
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there is enough food in Madinan lands to make you pay us more than your region produces in one week and we'd still have surplus. :)
Ow great idea! lets go bug chenier and take all of it's income for a week!
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In other words, his duchy produced food deficits, and then when he TOed 3-4 regions, he then produced surpluses?
I get that he wasn't buying the food because he was a cheapskate and not before it was unavailable, but I'm assuming here that the lords of his own duchy would be selling more cheaply to him to prevent starvation.
Well, the city didn't have much of a population - barely a thousand or two. So yea, a deficit cause it was a city. But just Candiels fields alone should've fed it - I mean, the first time we took Candiels (when I was it's Duke, back in 2009/10) we never had problems with food, the Fields and Agl more than make up for Candiels at low population levels. Really I enver figured out how that city starved - other than pure mismanagement.
Several Lords from our "inner" regions - Panabuk, Bol, etc were part of the Libero Rebellion group we took in - those Lords should have been more than able to sell him cheap food at a low price before he even took over the Duchy regions. They left on the "Madinan Lords let the city starve" excuse as well, despite having not sold him the food either apparently :P
And yes - obviously once he rebelled and the regions got food production up the city stopped starving.
I assume they either work one of two ways - sell the food to Candiels, then ship extra back to you guys. Or ship the food to Candiels, and the extra profit is spread out amongst those who need it.
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Ow great idea! lets go bug chenier and take all of it's income for a week!
Gimme a day, I need some replies from people but yes ;) Wouldn't it be fun to send 3-4 of our nobles up with caravans? :D lol. Or just offload it all to Abbot to sell?
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Gimme a day, I need some replies from people but yes ;) Wouldn't it be fun to send 3-4 of our nobles up with caravans? :D lol. Or just offload it all to Abbot to sell?
Deliver away. Whatever I buy now, I don't have to bother with later.
Kinda.
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Gimme a day, I need some replies from people but yes ;) Wouldn't it be fun to send 3-4 of our nobles up with caravans? :D lol. Or just offload it all to Abbot to sell?
caravans would do the trick. now with automatic ones, Madina should be able to export much more.
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caravans would do the trick. now with automatic ones, Madina should be able to export much more.
Think you can buy all Halicos's food and sell it to Paisly? :D Gonna make Chenier go bankrupt. . .
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Think you can buy all Halicos's food and sell it to Paisly? :D Gonna make Chenier go bankrupt. . .
i am going to buy every food in the south and send it inot one big caravan up there.
aaah, theres nothing better then !@#$ing around with chenier!
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Think you can buy all Halicos's food and sell it to Paisly? :D Gonna make Chenier go bankrupt. . .
Try me. Sometimes, I sell some of my purchases to Port Raviel, since they aren't as much of a popular destination.
What's the worse that can happen? I already lost all my militia and infrastructure over a 50 gold debt, so bankruptcy isn't really a concern anymore.
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Fatmilak:
Old stores:1405
Produced: 561
Now: 1966
Expected returns: 950 gold. Excuse me whilst Halicos creates a solid gold horse and then gathers some peasants to carry him on it making horse noises.
Apparently there are already caravans heading down to Fatmilak to gather it, but Halicos just poked the Duke of Paisly (our good friend Chénier) to make sure it all goes - Halicos really wants that horse :P
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Fatmilak:
Old stores:1405
Produced: 561
Now: 1966
According to the information I have, Fatmilak produces only 194 bushels.
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According to the information I have, Fatmilak produces only 194 bushels.
Above average harvests and investments by Halicos should make up the rest of that.
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Above average harvests and investments by Halicos should make up the rest of that.
You do know that food rots after time?
He better sell it, or it's a waste.
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You do know that food rots after time?
He better sell it, or it's a waste.
Yeah, I know. I did forget how big a warehouse I have, which means 400 of that food is going to rot quite quickly, the rest of it at warehouse rates.
This was mainly an experiment that has gone a little wrong because I didn't think it through. The plan was to buy up everyone in Madina's food cheaply through Corin, he then sells it all to Fatmilak. Fatmilak then sells it on to the rest of the world. Doing the sums though, I've lost a ridiculous amount of gold. Food bought from Corin at 40 gold, food sold for 50 gold - seems profitable. Until I realise I only get 62% of that 50 gold, so I actually lose 9 gold on every trade. Plus the stuff that rots or is stolen by bandits. Halicos has already told Corin he isn't buying any more food from him for now, he didn't say why though - he's keeping that to himself. No wonder Corin jumped at the chance to do that, he's making (presumably) 10 gold on the sale, then another 19 gold on the sale from Fatmilak to other places.
Oh well, every marketeer loses cash at some point. Halicos will just have to start putting prices up if he gets a little cash strapped. Or he can just demand loads of gold from Corin, which is probably what will happen in a few weeks when nothing gets sold.
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According to the information I have, Fatmilak produces only 194 bushels.
Yes. . . at 100%.
August Harvest, Bountiful Harvest.
Plus as Nathan said, hes been buying.
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Yeah, I know. I did forget how big a warehouse I have, which means 400 of that food is going to rot quite quickly, the rest of it at warehouse rates.
This was mainly an experiment that has gone a little wrong because I didn't think it through. The plan was to buy up everyone in Madina's food cheaply through Corin, he then sells it all to Fatmilak. Fatmilak then sells it on to the rest of the world. Doing the sums though, I've lost a ridiculous amount of gold. Food bought from Corin at 40 gold, food sold for 50 gold - seems profitable. Until I realise I only get 62% of that 50 gold, so I actually lose 9 gold on every trade. Plus the stuff that rots or is stolen by bandits. Halicos has already told Corin he isn't buying any more food from him for now, he didn't say why though - he's keeping that to himself. No wonder Corin jumped at the chance to do that, he's making (presumably) 10 gold on the sale, then another 19 gold on the sale from Fatmilak to other places.
Oh well, every marketeer loses cash at some point. Halicos will just have to start putting prices up if he gets a little cash strapped. Or he can just demand loads of gold from Corin, which is probably what will happen in a few weeks when nothing gets sold.
You should have a buy order at 40 gold, that way it helps erase most of you trade balance.
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You should have a buy order at 40 gold, that way it helps erase most of you trade balance.
It wasn't IG knowledge that this was happening so I didn't set a buy order until Corin was in the region and able to sell the food.
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It wasn't IG knowledge that this was happening so I didn't set a buy order until Corin was in the region and able to sell the food.
Well, Vallyn just pushed part of his two-phase plan up a bit.
Halicos is either going to love it.
Or he's going to leave snakes in my bed next time I visit Fatmilak.
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Solution: Don't visit Fatmilak!
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Solution: Don't visit Fatmilak!
indeed, come to Madina ;)
For obvious reasons.
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indeed, come to Madina ;)
For obvious reasons.
So I can drink Abbots brandy for free? :D
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Well, Vallyn just pushed part of his two-phase plan up a bit.
Halicos is either going to love it.
Or he's going to leave snakes in my bed next time I visit Fatmilak.
As long as he gets that 80 gold you owe him, it's all good ;)
EDIT: Oh, that plan... He hates it.
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As long as he gets that 80 gold you owe him, it's all good ;)
EDIT: Oh, that plan... He hates it.
Of course he does ;)
and it's 70 ;) I already paid you 10 when I purchased the goods :D 70+10 . . .well there's your profit. Though I'll have to do 75 cause of the way bonds work. . . oh well. I'm sure Vallyn will use it as a bribe somehow. . .
It's a briliant plan too, thats what I hate. I KNOW Halicos is gonna fight the whole way.
Thankfully, I only need 7 votes. . .and I got 3 already :D
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omg where turning into Madinans our selves! endless talks about loans, gold food, trade, profits, jokes about booze and flatering our characters regions.
This topic is turning very boring from an objective view :P
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*waits for secession rumours* *whistles*
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and it's 70 ;) I already paid you 10 when I purchased the goods :D 70+10 . . .well there's your profit. Though I'll have to do 75 cause of the way bonds work. . . oh well. I'm sure Vallyn will use it as a bribe somehow. . .
Oh yeah, silly me. You realise you only got that deal because Halicos likes Vallyn, right? :P 40 gold is a ridiculously low amount to sell for!
Thankfully, I only need 7 votes. . .and I got 3 already :D
I was surprised you got that extra one, Halicos needs to work harder it seems :(
*waits for secession rumours* *whistles*
It crossed my mind, but then Halicos isn't on those kinda terms with the Duke of Tower Fatmilak. Plus we don't have good enough recruitment centres and Halicos refuses to build any.
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Oh yeah, silly me. You realise you only got that deal because Halicos likes Vallyn, right? :P 40 gold is a ridiculously low amount to sell for!
I was surprised you got that extra one, Halicos needs to work harder it seems :(
It crossed my mind, but then Halicos isn't on those kinda terms with the Duke of Tower Fatmilak. Plus we don't have good enough recruitment centres and Halicos refuses to build any.
Halicos has the biggest, most well fortified and lonely castle in Fatmilak. He has his profits. . and no friends :( Well, except Corin :D And turns out even he was scamming you for gold ;)
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Halicos has the biggest, most well fortified and lonely castle in Fatmilak. He has his profits. . and no friends :(
He talks to his gold quite a lot, meaning he currently has 158 friends. He traded a few hundred of them away recently so that he can gather a few more friends from D'Hara.
Well, except Corin :D And turns out even he was scamming you for gold ;)
Oh I know that, but I offset that against the business he accumulates for Halicos. Besides, I need him onside in case we start selling to the Zuma again - absolutely no way Halicos is wandering into daimon land after what happened when they visited last time (or some time in the past).
I could certainly get more gold off him, but to be fair, Halicos is happy with what he has. If he starts losing sales of food then he'll definitely crack down on Corin, but for now, he can have his gold :P
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Besides, I need him onside in case we start selling to the Zuma again - absolutely no way Halicos is wandering into daimon land after what happened when they visited last time (or some time in the past).
We (in D'Hara) suspected as much, but that's rather careless of you to say on the forums.
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We (in D'Hara) suspected as much, but that's rather careless of you to say on the forums.
Only if people are taking OOC info into game, and I have faith that you're all honourable fellows :)
Besides, Zuma are offering 80 gold per hundred bushels, who wouldn't jump at that offer? Fairly easy to presume that anyone the Zuma contact are going to sell food to them.
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Only if people are taking OOC info into game, and I have faith that you're all honourable fellows :)
Usually it's cool to discover something OC and OOC at the same time. Why read a book if you already know the plot? :/
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Usually it's cool to discover something OC and OOC at the same time.
You mean you didn't know the Zuma were buying food from people? Sorry, I thought it was fairly common knowledge >.<
That is actually fairly interesting though. I thought The Zuma had their tendrils (and/or other extremities that may/may not exist on their being) into most realms on the western side of the continent (or at least had touched those realms in some way).
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Asylon(I think) is one of the Zuma's largest suppliers of grain.
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Asylon(I think) is one of the Zuma's largest suppliers of grain.
Sounds like Asylon AND Madina, and possibly others. It's fairly easy to put the stats charts together with the "we don't have food for sale" messages.
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Sounds like Asylon AND Madina, and possibly others. It's fairly easy to put the stats charts together with the "we don't have food for sale" messages.
Indeed, when our cities starve and we get answered "we are out of food", obviously because said food was sold to someone else, that's a strong irritant right there.
As for Fatmilak's stocks, don't expect my caravans to buy enough to ward off the rot. Not this week, at least. I make it my policy to send caravans to every region that has a sell offer every time I've got the gold to send them, regardless of the sell price. However, I put a lot more gold in the caravans going towards cheaper selling regions. And as it is, many regions are selling at 30-35 gold per 100.
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Sounds like Asylon AND Madina, and possibly others. It's fairly easy to put the stats charts together with the "we don't have food for sale" messages.
Ehh.... not quite. Terran sells at most 100-200 bushels a month to the Zuma, and that only incidentally from one region. We rarely sold because, even with 140% supply, a bad winter, a monster attack, or a mistake with caravans can wipe out the entire excess. For example, Terran just now had some kind of disaster in Mistight and misplaced 600 bushels. It won't utterly destroy us, but the winter may get tricky.
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Ehh.... not quite. Terran sells at most 100-200 bushels a month to the Zuma, and that only incidentally from one region. We rarely sold because, even with 140% supply, a bad winter, a monster attack, or a mistake with caravans can wipe out the entire excess. For example, Terran just now had some kind of disaster in Mistight and misplaced 600 bushels. It won't utterly destroy us, but the winter may get tricky.
You should ship it all to D'Hara for safekeeping. No rogues will hurt it there. :P
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Sounds like Asylon AND Madina, and possibly others. It's fairly easy to put the stats charts together with the "we don't have food for sale" messages.
i dont think we've actually sold too much to them, not at least regularily. We've had issues with the distance - currently (unless its Halicos) we just sell to D'Hara really.
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You should ship it all to D'Hara for safekeeping. No rogues will hurt it there. :P
Only revolting regions there which make you lose access to your food. :P
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Indeed, when our cities starve and we get answered "we are out of food", obviously because said food was sold to someone else, that's a strong irritant right there.
Part of the reasoning behind Fatmilak buying up everyone else's food; means we're consistent in our supply. I think Fatmilak has only failed once that I know of and Abbot got a rather stern letter from Halicos about that. All of Fatmilak's food went to Madina city for a really low price, only to be turned back.
We've had issues with the distance - currently (unless its Halicos) we just sell to D'Hara really.
No distance problems for Halicos, but he's been preferring to sell to D'Hara lately. I did have Corin running back and forth between the Zuma, but it's no fun for his player travelling for weeks. He did mention lately he'd like to go back, so I'll bring it up again. Only problem might be making him buy his own food back for 10 gold more than he sold it to me for, Halicos' honour wouldn't allow him to cheat someone like that.
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Only revolting regions there which make you lose access to your food. :P
The only reason our regions revolt is because they are starving. If we have an extra 2000 bushels, then they won't revolt. Our rat-breeding peasants will double in number over the winter, giving us more gold, which we can then use to buy more food.
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The only reason our regions revolt is because they are starving. If we have an extra 2000 bushels, then they won't revolt. Our rat-breeding peasants will double in number over the winter, giving us more gold, which we can then use to buy more food.
Indeed. Our regions revolt *only* when they lack food. And only Port Nebel revolts regularly, since 1) it doesn't make the income to truly be competitive with the other cities and 2) it's too far from the regions that actually sell food.
As such, our realms main food warehouses, Paisly and Port Raviel, are always both connected to each other and foreign markets while never having major control problems themselves.
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Indeed. Our regions revolt *only* when they lack food. And only Port Nebel revolts regularly, since 1) it doesn't make the income to truly be competitive with the other cities and 2) it's too far from the regions that actually sell food.
As such, our realms main food warehouses, Paisly and Port Raviel, are always both connected to each other and foreign markets while never having major control problems themselves.
D'Hara's food problems will disappear for the Winter I think.
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D'Hara's food problems will disappear for the Winter I think.
I think we are good for this winter indeed. We are approaching record food stocks, with a total population much lower than we had at the beginning of last winter. We are trying to figure out how to distribute food to minimize rot now, actually, and will invest in bigger warehouses.
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I think we are good for this winter indeed. We are approaching record food stocks, with a total population much lower than we had at the beginning of last winter. We are trying to figure out how to distribute food to minimize rot now, actually, and will invest in bigger warehouses.
just keep your markets open chenier ;)
spares me alot of clicking and writing letters.
And spares you the frustration of me piling up huge amounts of food to sell in one caravan the moment you open them again. :P
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just keep your markets open chenier ;)
spares me alot of clicking and writing letters.
And spares you the frustration of me piling up huge amounts of food to sell in one caravan the moment you open them again. :P
Don't worry, the stores will never close.
If ever we enlarge all of our warehouses and our imports are great enough to make our stocks exceed warehouse capacity, then we'll just start reselling, such as to the Zuma. A merchant empire that buys everyone's food and then resells the excess at higher price is what I dreamt of when I first joined Shadovar, and have been striving for ever since.
But for that Dwi will need a lot more rural realms to spring up, and we'll have to see very few large cities get colonized. We got a lot of food right now, but I'm still skeptical on whether we'll have much left after winter. And after all, our cities will regrow, and I doubt imports will increase faster than consumption enough for us to start the whole reselling game.
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And after all, our cities will regrow, and I doubt imports will increase faster than consumption enough for us to start the whole reselling game.
Imports could well grow enough, if you look at the regions that Barca will be taking from now on. A second small city, one more woodland and the rest are either rural regions (Gallaecia, for example) or townslands. With the new estate system, expansion is likely to take place faster and Twainville is at minimal population. Taking into account Madina and Aurvandil, presuming the lands are not destroyed from war (unlikely, having to go through Candiels or the Tower first), I'd expect D'Hara could start reselling.
But if people caught on to D'Hara reselling, who's to say they'd keep selling to D'Hara rather than cutting out the middleman and making the additional gold themselves?
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Imports could well grow enough, if you look at the regions that Barca will be taking from now on. A second small city, one more woodland and the rest are either rural regions (Gallaecia, for example) or townslands. With the new estate system, expansion is likely to take place faster and Twainville is at minimal population. Taking into account Madina and Aurvandil, presuming the lands are not destroyed from war (unlikely, having to go through Candiels or the Tower first), I'd expect D'Hara could start reselling.
But if people caught on to D'Hara reselling, who's to say they'd keep selling to D'Hara rather than cutting out the middleman and making the additional gold themselves?
Because D'hara may have better caravan connections, better communication connections, and more reliable traders.
Specialization in being an intermediary can lead to producers and consumers becoming dependent.
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Because D'hara may have better caravan connections, better communication connections, and more reliable traders.
Specialization in being an intermediary can lead to producers and consumers becoming dependent.
In other words, its easier. D'Hara will always buy your food and if they make an extra few gold but have to travel, good for them. Easier, and saner. I'm always of the opinion that the best interaction with the Zuma is no interaction with the Zuma. Doubt I'm alone there.
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Because D'hara may have better caravan connections, better communication connections, and more reliable traders.
Specialization in being an intermediary can lead to producers and consumers becoming dependent.
Precisely.
In D'Hara, *all* we think about is food. For most people, though, the less they have to think about food, the better. Most of the southern food producers can easily sell to D'Hara at a good price (too good?). But for them to sell to anyone else would be a whole other ball game as the lordly caravans wouldn't reach.
Besides, it's not as if the profits from the resell would outweigh the trade balance required just to feed our cities. It'll bring down costs, but overall our trade balance should remain negative.
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Plus easier food connection means less rot and more of your food beeing sold and more quicker.
I also think its really cool on Dwilight to have this kind of massive intriguing trade.
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Indeed, I dreamed when Dwilight was first founded of creating a peaceful merchant realm where Barca now is, and out westerly, for the purpose of exporting to the island cities.
Now, indirectly, that dream is coming true.
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Indeed, I dreamed when Dwilight was first founded of creating a peaceful merchant realm where Barca now is, and out westerly, for the purpose of exporting to the island cities.
Now, indirectly, that dream is coming true.
What do you think we have in Madina? :D
Ok, maybe not so peaceful. . but we totally love to export all our food ^.^
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Indeed, I dreamed when Dwilight was first founded of creating a peaceful merchant realm where Barca now is, and out westerly, for the purpose of exporting to the island cities.
I wanted to do the same where D'Hara is, but Shadovar beat me to it. When Madina was taking Paisly for the first time, I wanted to lead an expedition to take over the Ports and then run off with them for myself.
I didn't envision them being peaceful though, we were going to raid for a lot of our food and then sell it to other realms :D
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I wanted to do the same where D'Hara is, but Shadovar beat me to it. When Madina was taking Paisly for the first time, I wanted to lead an expedition to take over the Ports and then run off with them for myself.
I didn't envision them being peaceful though, we were going to raid for a lot of our food and then sell it to other realms :D
The thought of raiding has occurred, but I don't see it materializing themselves unless people decide to close their borders to us. Temptation only kicks in when we know the food is there but won't come to us or is going elsewhere.
After all, there's no way we can raid as much as we can buy. Raiding alone could never satisfy the islands' needs. And any raiding is bond to piss off other realms that would have maybe been open to sell to you. It's overall not a good strategy.
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The thought of raiding has occurred, but I don't see it materializing themselves unless people decide to close their borders to us. Temptation only kicks in when we know the food is there but won't come to us or is going elsewhere.
After all, there's no way we can raid as much as we can buy. Raiding alone could never satisfy the islands' needs. And any raiding is bond to piss off other realms that would have maybe been open to sell to you. It's overall not a good strategy.
Why is not an option, you can attack Aurvendil or Madina, there both busy with each other, perhaps lurians would even join the fun, then you could loot them too.
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Why is not an option, you can attack Aurvendil or Madina, there both busy with each other, perhaps lurians would even join the fun, then you could loot them too.
Loot Lurians? As if.
As for Aurvandil or Madina, why? They are both selling to us. Yea, it costs gold, but that also means we don't have to pay for any soldiers. So why risk ourselves in a war that could escalate?
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Loot Lurians? As if.
As for Aurvandil or Madina, why? They are both selling to us. Yea, it costs gold, but that also means we don't have to pay for any soldiers. So why risk ourselves in a war that could escalate?
I'm with Chenier on this one - D'Hara profits more from the Madina/Aurvandil war than anyone else, they have a vested interest in keeping neutral. Bad business for them.
Once this whole thing is resolved it's gong to end up the South selling food to D'Hara, who then uses what they need, and then resells to the North-Western regions by Terran for profit :D
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I'm with Chenier on this one - D'Hara profits more from the Madina/Aurvandil war than anyone else, they have a vested interest in keeping neutral. Bad business for them.
Once this whole thing is resolved it's gong to end up the South selling food to D'Hara, who then uses what they need, and then resells to the North-Western regions by Terran for profit :D
Zuma aside, I'm not away of anyone who would really need to buy food off of us.
And I doubt the Zuma's needs are considerable.
We'll likely just end up sitting on a ton of food, and then force food prices to go down.
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your part of an aliance right? and that alliance suports aurvendil, D'hara is neutral but the federation its part of is not.
I think that will eventually lead to trouble anyway, or atleast if it escalates further.
So why not just start now? :P
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your part of an aliance right? and that alliance suports aurvendil, D'hara is neutral but the federation its part of is not.
I think that will eventually lead to trouble anyway, or atleast if it escalates further.
So why not just start now? :P
No.
Barca is pro-Aurvandil.
That is all.
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your part of an aliance right? and that alliance suports aurvendil, D'hara is neutral but the federation its part of is not.
I think that will eventually lead to trouble anyway, or atleast if it escalates further.
So why not just start now? :P
Barca are close allies, but so is Fissoa. Caerwyn were friends too.
So meh.
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your part of an aliance right? and that alliance suports aurvendil, D'hara is neutral but the federation its part of is not.
I think that will eventually lead to trouble anyway, or atleast if it escalates further.
So why not just start now? :P
the Moot does not officially support either side of the war.
i. At least 10 days prior to the formation of any alliance or federation beyond this one, and similarly prior to the declaration of any war on a non-signing power, a signing realm of this treaty must notify the other parties through official diplomatic channels, and through the eldership of the Véinsørmoot.
ii. Any signing power has the right to form treaties, alliances, and declarations with, concerning, and against non-signing powers, provided they do not conflict with this agreement. Such agreements are not subject to the review of other signing powers. Advance notice must be given, however, as outlined in i).
Aurvrandil cannot join the Moot because of this provision:
i. No realm shall be admitted to this agreement which has not adopted a republican style of governance.
Madina cannot join the Moot because of this provision:
iv. No realm may be admitted to this agreement unless it has at least 1 city or stronghold within Maroccidens or Mesoccidens, meaning that Asylon and Aurvandil could be eligible, but Caerwyn and Madina are not, as of the date of this treaty's drafting.
Of course, if Madina takes Candiels, then that changes. Or, if Aurvrandil becomes a republic.
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Or, if Aurvrandil becomes a republic.
that be funny, probabaly also will ake peace with Madina somehwere a posibility.
If it includes Mendicant in a package.
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your part of an aliance right? and that alliance suports aurvendil, D'hara is neutral but the federation its part of is not.
I think that will eventually lead to trouble anyway, or atleast if it escalates further.
So why not just start now? :P
That is grossly oversimplified.
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That is grossly oversimplified.
It's completely incorrect. The Moot treaty has no provision for jointly declaring an offensive war.
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That is grossly oversimplified.
The stuff he says on dwilight is grossly oversimplified, too. Mostly OOC stuff, he has yet to capture me for more than 2 days
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That is grossly oversimplified.
Of course it is.
Barca has a crush on Aurvandil, I mean they really love Mendicant deep down.
Terran, just is bored and wants something to do - they'd probably swing either way so long as it got them a fight.
D'Hara just wants food - Aurvandil Food, Madinan Food, Zuma Food - so long as you give them food they like you.
Aurvandil <--> Barca <--- Terran ---> D'Hara ----> Madina
Why Barca is so chummy with Aurvandil is completely beyond me - Aurvandil really only has one way to expand, through Barca.
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Why Barca is so chummy with Aurvandil is completely beyond me - Aurvandil really only has one way to expand, through Barca.
Not if Madina falls ;)
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Of course it is.
Barca has a crush on Aurvandil, I mean they really love Mendicant deep down.
Terran, just is bored and wants something to do - they'd probably swing either way so long as it got them a fight.
D'Hara just wants food - Aurvandil Food, Madinan Food, Zuma Food - so long as you give them food they like you.
Aurvandil <--> Barca <--- Terran ---> D'Hara ----> Madina
Why Barca is so chummy with Aurvandil is completely beyond me - Aurvandil really only has one way to expand, through Barca.
That's nonsense. Aurvandil can expand eastward plenty. 8)
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That's nonsense. Aurvandil can expand eastward plenty. 8)
Meany, and there I was thinking you liked Madina :(
But they can definitely expand westwards. Nothing at all stopping them do that. Not human eating daimons who can make volcanoes explode, the sky turn to black and be in two places at the same time. Nope, I don't think there's anything there. So let Aurvandil expand west!
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Meany, and there I was thinking you liked Madina :(
But they can definitely expand westwards. Nothing at all stopping them do that. Not human eating daimons who can make volcanoes explode, the sky turn to black and be in two places at the same time. Nope, I don't think there's anything there. So let Aurvandil expand west!
Barca has claim to the regions between Auvrandil and the Zuma.
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Because Aurvandil realizes that having a good diplomatic stance with Barca and the 'Moot is a greater gain than trying to expand any further west. Rather use all our potential into breaking Tower Fatmilak and then taking that lil island as our prize. :D
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Aurvandil can easily keep Madina from attacking anything else than their fortified city, where they get a significant defensive bonus. A Barcan/Moot vs. Aurvandil war would not be the same at all, as all parties will have regions vulnerable to eachother.
And this, overall, is bad for food production.
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Aurvandil can easily keep Madina from attacking anything else than their fortified city, where they get a significant defensive bonus. A Barcan/Moot vs. Aurvandil war would not be the same at all, as all parties will have regions vulnerable to eachother.
And this, overall, is bad for food production.
Someone should poke them to go to war then.
"I hear your other source of food has been burned to the ground. Well, moving caravans through there is certainly dangerous, perhaps I can sell you food for 75 gold per load?"
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Someone should poke them to go to war then.
Terran is pretty anti-war when I was there. They fought rogues, but had no intentions whatsoever to join either side of the war. I doubt you could "poke" them into a war. Maybe a Pearl-Harbor in D'Hara could start something. ???
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Terran is pretty anti-war when I was there. They fought rogues, but had no intentions whatsoever to join either side of the war. I doubt you could "poke" them into a war. Maybe a Pearl-Harbor in D'Hara could start something. ???
indeed by the ever expanding and extremely threatening japane... i mean lurian empire.
USA was also a sleeping giant at that time, very isolationist/conservative.
eventually some friction will escalate between Madina and some moot members and obviously it would hurt the relations between the moot and Madina.
You can't say they're actions are individual and at the same time claim to be part of some really close federation.
But the fun part is a possible involvement of lurians as well.
How can they keep standing by idly while a threatening force on the horizons grows and grows and far exceeds there powers.
If lurians keep fighting each other and the moot keeps growing stronger, the lurians will end up as the moots lap dog eventually.
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indeed by the ever expanding and extremely threatening japane... i mean lurian empire.
USA was also a sleeping giant at that time, very isolationist/conservative.
eventually some friction will escalate between Madina and some moot members and obviously it would hurt the relations between the moot and Madina.
You can't say they're actions are individual and at the same time claim to be part of some really close federation.
But the fun part is a possible involvement of lurians as well.
How can they keep standing by idly while a threatening force on the horizons grows and grows and far exceeds there powers.
If lurians keep fighting each other and the moot keeps growing stronger, the lurians will end up as the moots lap dog eventually.
Lurian imperialism is our second favorite topic of discussion, after food security. We don't want war, but considering their historical attitude towards us, we wouldn't be the least surprised if they ever did attack.
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Lurian imperialism is our second favorite topic of discussion, after food security. We don't want war, but considering their historical attitude towards us, we wouldn't be the least surprised if they ever did attack.
I think it could combined with the Madinan civil war be alot of fun.
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Lurian imperialism is our second favorite topic of discussion, after food security. We don't want war, but considering their historical attitude towards us, we wouldn't be the least surprised if they ever did attack.
Don't worry, Halicos wouldn't let the Lurians attack his most profitable realm. But don't think D'Hara can attack the Lurians, he sells food there too :P
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Really, the Madinan civil war is a funny thing for the Moot to argue about, because, in the long run, Luria is a MUCH bigger issue than Aurvandil or Madina, in terms of being a threat to the Moot.
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And the biggest threat Madina/Aurvandil pose is probably not that they will attack the Moot, but that they will form excessively close ties with only one realm in the Moot, and thereby create division within the Moot.
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And the biggest threat Madina/Aurvandil pose is probably not that they will attack the Moot, but that they will form excessively close ties with only one realm in the Moot, and thereby create division within the Moot.
damn, hes up to my master plan...
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damn, hes up to my master plan...
QUICK! Destroy all of the "We welcome our D'Haran brothers" posters so nobody suspects anything!
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QUICK! Destroy all of the "We welcome our D'Haran brothers" posters so nobody suspects anything!
Aw man. I just finished making individual ones for all those food bushels we are selling them this winter :(
I even have a gold glittered one for Chenier!
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But the fun part is a possible involvement of lurians as well.
How can they keep standing by idly while a threatening force on the horizons grows and grows and far exceeds there powers.
If lurians keep fighting each other and the moot keeps growing stronger, the lurians will end up as the moots lap dog eventually.
http://www.battlemaster.org/statistics.php?ShowWorld=8&Stat=RealmPlayers&simple=0&Show[]=17,35,3,15,33
http://www.battlemaster.org/statistics.php?ShowWorld=8&Stat=Regions&simple=0&Show[]=17,35,3,15,33
http://www.battlemaster.org/statistics.php?ShowWorld=8&Stat=Military&simple=0&Show[]=17,35,3,15,33
http://www.battlemaster.org/statistics.php?ShowWorld=8&Stat=Income&simple=0&Show[]=17,35,3,15,33
http://www.battlemaster.org/statistics.php?ShowWorld=8&Stat=Food&simple=0&Show[]=17,35,3,15,33
I have yet to find a single indicator showing the 'moot growing over the Lurias.
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http://www.battlemaster.org/statistics.php?ShowWorld=8&Stat=RealmPlayers&simple=0&Show[]=17,35,3,15,33
http://www.battlemaster.org/statistics.php?ShowWorld=8&Stat=Regions&simple=0&Show[]=17,35,3,15,33
http://www.battlemaster.org/statistics.php?ShowWorld=8&Stat=Military&simple=0&Show[]=17,35,3,15,33
http://www.battlemaster.org/statistics.php?ShowWorld=8&Stat=Income&simple=0&Show[]=17,35,3,15,33
http://www.battlemaster.org/statistics.php?ShowWorld=8&Stat=Food&simple=0&Show[]=17,35,3,15,33
I have yet to find a single indicator showing the 'moot growing over the Lurias.
You should copy the link of the image of your graph, not the webpage.
those don't work for us.
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I have yet to find a single indicator showing the 'moot growing over the Lurias.
If Luria keeps fighting itself. Otherwise the situation is far more likely to go in the opposite direction.
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You should copy the link of the image of your graph, not the webpage.
those don't work for us.
Players (http://www.battlemaster.org/statistics/realmstat.php?ShowWorld=8&Type=PlayersActive&simple=0&ShowOnly=17,35,3,15,33), Regions (http://www.battlemaster.org/statistics/realmstat.php?ShowWorld=8&Type=Regions&simple=0&ShowOnly=17,35,3,15,33), Military (http://www.battlemaster.org/statistics/realmstat.php?ShowWorld=8&Type=Military&simple=0&ShowOnly=17,35,3,15,33), Income (http://www.battlemaster.org/statistics/realmstat.php?ShowWorld=8&Type=Income&simple=0&ShowOnly=17,35,3,15,33), Food (http://www.battlemaster.org/statistics/realmstat.php?ShowWorld=8&Type=Food&simple=0&ShowOnly=17,35,3,15,33).
If Luria keeps fighting itself. Otherwise the situation is far more likely to go in the opposite direction.
True, though I was hinting that even with all the Lurian infighting (or perhaps because of it, after all it makes things more interesting than a political stagnation), the Lurian kingdoms are still growing in all aspects. Not less than the 'moot.
In any case, we shall hope no radical leader trigger some religious war or something. (winky wink)
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In any case, we shall hope no radical leader trigger some religious war or something. (winky wink)
*Quietly shifts to the left and starts humming a tune entitled "Burn Heretics Burn, Doo doo do do doo doo"
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In any case, we shall hope no radical leader trigger some religious war or something. (winky wink)
I'd like to see them reach Madina... I hear the quickest way is to come burning and pillaging through Aurvandil.
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Will the conflict die down during the winter or are we gonna see some risky winter operations?
also, im curious what the monster situation is like in Madina with the whole island occupied?
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Will the conflict die down during the winter or are we gonna see some risky winter operations?
also, im curious what the monster situation is like in Madina with the whole island occupied?
monster situation is. . .annoying.
When we dont hold Panafau/Laraibina/Lawataling the monsters just play there and we go hunt the 4-5K groups when they wander into our regions.
Now we're constantly fighting little groups with 3-4 nobles.
We CAN get really bad spawns still - we killed off a 12K CS grouup last winter, but usually it's just small groups.
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Will the conflict die down during the winter or are we gonna see some risky winter operations?
When you mention risky winter operations I think of one of the wars between Sweden and Denmark.
In early 1658, Sweden marched over frozen water with their entire army and managed to crush the greatly surprised danish army, leading to a treaty that meant Denmark had to give up the eastern part of their kingdom, a part that remains swedish to this day.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_across_the_Belts if anyone is curious)
Do you think we should be able to walk across frozen water in the wintertime? (in bm I mean) ;)
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When you mention risky winter operations I think of one of the wars between Sweden and Denmark.
In early 1658, Sweden marched over frozen water with their entire army and managed to crush the greatly surprised danish army, leading to a treaty that meant Denmark had to give up the eastern part of their kingdom, a part that remains swedish to this day.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_across_the_Belts if anyone is curious)
Do you think we should be able to walk across frozen water in the wintertime? (in bm I mean) ;)
Rivers and such maybe, large bodies of water are unlikely to freeze. But I tend towards no, lots of extra coding and database properties to get it to work I would imagine so the game can know which uncrossable borders are rivers and which are not.
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Rivers and such maybe, large bodies of water are unlikely to freeze. But I tend towards no, lots of extra coding and database properties to get it to work I would imagine so the game can know which uncrossable borders are rivers and which are not.
Yeah, same here. It was mostly a joke.
What I would like to see are more sea routes though. On the outside of Dwilight for example. I think it was already brought up once somewhere.
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Caerwyn should form a colony in Madina, so you could focus on Aurvandil without worrying of rogues. ;)
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Caerwyn should form a colony in Madina, so you could focus on Aurvandil without worrying of rogues. ;)
They could recruit from Madina to deal with the monsters on that island. Would Madina (Realm) have to change its name to Fatmilak though?
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They could recruit from Madina to deal with the monsters on that island. Would Madina (Realm) have to change its name to Fatmilak though?
Or they could simply colonize the entire island...
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They could recruit from Madina to deal with the monsters on that island. Would Madina (Realm) have to change its name to Fatmilak though?
Fronen didn't need Fronepu to call itself Fronen, why would Madina need Madina to call itself Madina? 8)
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Fronen didn't need Fronepu to call itself Fronen, why would Madina need Madina to call itself Madina? 8)
Madina should secede and call itself Fatmilak to confuse everyone.
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Madina should secede and call itself Fatmilak to confuse everyone.
Do it!
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Why Barca is so chummy with Aurvandil is completely beyond me - Aurvandil really only has one way to expand, through Barca.
Perhaps because Julius doesn't like Vallyn that much. Or perhaps you answered your own question already. We do not want them to expand through Barca, so we do not give them any reason to.
True, though I was hinting that even with all the Lurian infighting (or perhaps because of it, after all it makes things more interesting than a political stagnation), the Lurian kingdoms are still growing in all aspects. Not less than the 'moot.
In any case, we shall hope no radical leader trigger some religious war or something. (winky wink)
I would like to see a religious war between tMP and Aetheris Pyrism.
Madina should secede and call itself Fatmilak to confuse everyone.
LOL :D
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I would like to see a religious war between tMP and Aetheris Pyrism.
Oooh.. that would be interesting. And then we could have one between Verdis Elementum and Triunism, too!
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Oooh.. that would be interesting. And then we could have one between Verdis Elementum and Triunism, too!
If you could find anyone that passionate about Triunism, be my guest. ::)
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If you could find anyone that passionate about Triunism, be my guest. ::)
Yea, that's... not gonna happen.
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I would like to see a religious war between tMP and Aetheris Pyrism.
LOL :D
Given the setup of tMP, and what we know so far about Aetheris Pyrism a religious war seems unlikely. It is entirely possible that the Path of the Gods Sect may rattle their sabres, but then they seem to think tMP has some sort of right to be the only religion in the Lurian area.
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Yea, that's... not gonna happen.
Indeed. And I can say with some confidence that Triunism is not facing an imminent revival.
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Indeed. And I can say with some confidence that Triunism is not facing an imminent revival.
Who knows, maybe Triunism can revive itself as a sect in the Manifest Path!
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Given the setup of tMP, and what we know so far about Aetheris Pyrism a religious war seems unlikely. It is entirely possible that the Path of the Gods Sect may rattle their sabres, but then they seem to think tMP has some sort of right to be the only religion in the Lurian area.
Same thought here. While I would OoC welcome the thrill a religious war would bring, I see only Ramiel of the Path of the Gods interested in such event, and the Manifest Path and Aetheris Pyrism blend quite well together, in my opinion. While Aetheris Pryism is more spiritual/ethereal/personal-oriented (at least for now), the Manifest Path is much more material/economic/politic-oriented.
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You know... Madina doesn't actually have any religions... If you want some kind of religious war, you might want to get at least someone in Madina on board ;)
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Same thought here. While I would OoC welcome the thrill a religious war would bring, I see only Ramiel of the Path of the Gods interested in such event, and the Manifest Path and Aetheris Pyrism blend quite well together, in my opinion. While Aetheris Pryism is more spiritual/ethereal/personal-oriented (at least for now), the Manifest Path is much more material/economic/politic-oriented.
At the rate tMP is going dead I may just convert to SA myself and set Ramiel up as someone with MPD or who has gone even further bat!@#$ insane...
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At the rate tMP is going dead I may just convert to SA myself...
Everyone should convert to SA. Then we can have the Grand Schism, and the various factions of SA can fight to consolidate power for themselves.
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You are already big enough for a schism.. do it! :P
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I have considered it in the past. But there's really no valid reason to do so right now.
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Yes, not everyone is SA yet.
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I have considered it in the past. But there's really no valid reason to do so right now.
War attracts more nobles. Nobles you can easily convert to SA. More SA adherents means more power for the church, i.e. more power to dominate others. Then the cycle starts over again. ;)
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So what you're saying is that if my character wants his religion to be more successful and powerful, he needs to force it to split into tiny little pieces, and then force those tiny pieces to attack each other?
So.. when are the three realms of the Veinsormoot going to split up, declare war, and start slaughtering each other in a glorious orgy of blood and death? Just think how powerful you'll be when you're done killing each other!! ::)
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So.. when are the three realms of the Veinsormoot going to split up, declare war, and start slaughtering each other in a glorious orgy of blood and death? Just think how powerful you'll be when you're done killing each other!! ::)
I hear Aurvandil wants to join in...
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You can't win, Nathan. If you strike the Moot down, we shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.
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So what you're saying is that if my character wants his religion to be more successful and powerful, he needs to force it to split into tiny little pieces, and then force those tiny pieces to attack each other?
You see the logic of it too. ;D
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Its very easy to create shism, i find it ridiculous to hear that 'i can't find a good reason for a schism in SA'.
Example, you have three stars to worship, what if someone would worship only one and declare the others as unholy or less holy?
Perhaps one side of SA would promote the worshiping of icons, the other side would strictly forbid it?
Combined with that one side could worship the original prophet, the other side would have another main prohpet(perhaps a new one)?
You could also have a disagreement on calling your main prohpet a god or son of the star/stars, the other side could call him a mere prophet.
One side could forbid praying or music, the other side could see it as holy.
I could go on for ages, if you need more suggestion, i'd glaldy give them.
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It would be very easy to make up a reason for it, I fully agree. What he meant is that there is no real reason for anyone to want to do it.
What he really means is that no one thinks they can pull it off yet.
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Its very easy to create shism, i find it ridiculous to hear that 'i can't find a good reason for a schism in SA'.
That's not what I said. And you're completely missing the entire point.
What he really means is that no one thinks they can pull it off yet.
No, I really meant that there is no good reason to do so. (At least so far as my character is concerned.) I have no doubt that in the past, there were multiple opportunities for Brance to have successfully caused a schism. At one time there were even council discussions about it in Astrum. But the crisis that brought it about was resolved, and the plans were abandoned.
I'm not one of those people that has their character do something simply because they can. Nor do I go around trying to invent IC reasons for my character to do something that I, as a player, want to see happen. My characters make IC plans, for IC reasons, and react to events that happen in-game. Brance has no reason to want to schism SA, so he won't. If someone does something IC that changes that, then he will react according to what happens. If that leads to schism, then so be it.
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what about a vision?
A vission that moves you to worshiping icons or one of the stars primarily.
I think we all tend to guide our characters into a certain direction at some point.
Or else you are just letting your characters be lived solemnly by it's environment.
If everyone does that, nothing changes, the game wouldn't be so dynamic.
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No, I really meant that there is no good reason to do so. (At least so far as my character is concerned.) I have no doubt that in the past, there were multiple opportunities for Brance to have successfully caused a schism. At one time there were even council discussions about it in Astrum. But the crisis that brought it about was resolved, and the plans were abandoned.
I was speaking about SA in general (and you-know-whom in particular); if there ever is a schism I doubt very much it would come from Brance. Although stranger things have happened.
I'm not one of those people that has their character do something simply because they can. Nor do I go around trying to invent IC reasons for my character to do something that I, as a player, want to see happen. My characters make IC plans, for IC reasons, and react to events that happen in-game. Brance has no reason to want to schism SA, so he won't. If someone does something IC that changes that, then he will react according to what happens. If that leads to schism, then so be it.
I fully endorse this way of playing!
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what about a vision?
A vission that moves you to worshiping icons or one of the stars primarily.
Again, you want me to completely artificially make something up, out of nowhere, with no IC/IG basis to anything that has ever happened to my character, to force him to do something that makes no sense for him to do, and is also something that I, as a player, have no interest in seeing happen, simply because I could do it?
Or else you are just letting your characters be lived solemnly by it's environment.
If everyone does that, nothing changes, the game wouldn't be so dynamic.
I'm sorry, but that's just ridiculous. There are plenty of things that happen IG that force our characters to do things. There are so many players, and so many attitudes and opinions, that there is no way for our characters to live together peacefully.
In fact, as far as I'm concerned, if more people would let their character react to things that actually happen to them, and not force them to move along some predetermined path in order to achieve some OOC-derived goal, the game would be a much more interesting place.
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Again, you want me to completely artificially make something up, out of nowhere, with no IC/IG basis to anything that has ever happened to my character, to force him to do something that makes no sense for him to do, and is also something that I, as a player, have no interest in seeing happen, simply because I could do it?
I'm sorry, but that's just ridiculous. There are plenty of things that happen IG that force our characters to do things. There are so many players, and so many attitudes and opinions, that there is no way for our characters to live together peacefully.
In fact, as far as I'm concerned, if more people would let their character react to things that actually happen to them, and not force them to move along some predetermined path in order to achieve some OOC-derived goal, the game would be a much more interesting place.
Your right, and i am not telling you to do anything.
It was a mere suggestion.
I see nothing wrong with guiding your characters somewhat by for example a vission.
I always imagine me the player as a higher power sometimes interfering in the paths of my characters if they become boring or something.
Most people indeed, do this to much.
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If you character becomes boring, then I suggest you make your character have a vision about the power of the Stars and then convert. No one is bored in the SA reality distorsion field.
NO ONE.
:D
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If you character becomes boring, then I suggest you make your character have a vision about the power of the Stars and then convert.
Careful what you suggest. Disaffected leaders of rival faiths with disproportionate political power and imperial dreams might take you seriously.
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Careful what you suggest. Disaffected leaders of rival faiths with disproportionate political power and imperial dreams might take you seriously.
The Stars are for everyone. Join us. We actually need someone to stir up trouble at the moment. Allison is preoccupied with her colony project and is therefore not currently in the business of being a provocateur. The Church is as quiet as I've ever seen it at present.
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The Stars are for everyone. Join us. We actually need someone to stir up trouble at the moment. Allison is preoccupied with her colony project and is therefore not currently in the business of being a provocateur. The Church is as quiet as I've ever seen it at present.
Marquis of Freke's Deep has been all doggedly trying to convert Gornak for a few days. Maybe all the exciting people are off trying to convert others?
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Marquis of Freke's Deep has been all doggedly trying to convert Gornak for a few days. Maybe all the exciting people are off trying to convert others?
More power to them!
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Verdis elementum might see a little stir up too(as it barley is a religion), ps where going way off topic again :P
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ps where going way off topic again :P
I tired to steer it back, but you're all big meanies who don't listen to me :( Much like Aurvandil! Well, they're not big... and they're not meanies... and I haven't really tried to talk to them...
So yeah, why is Madina still full of pagans? I'm pretty sure a few of the Lords would convert if it meant getting rid of Aurvandil.
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I think it's because last time SA sent a priest down that wasn't VonGenf, Nightling stabbed her. Oh wait, was that Allison? :D Can't imagine WHY someone would stab her. . .
I think it's mostly because people assume Madina has a religion (we did for the longest time) - that Estianism failed and left the whole region empty is secondary.
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I am planning to peregrinate preaching Aetheris Pyrism once I get enough Oratory skill. Madina is certainly on the chart.
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I am planning to peregrinate preaching Aetheris Pyrism once I get enough Oratory skill. Madina is certainly on the chart.
Halicos will let you build a temple in Fatmilak, for a price...
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Halicos will let you build a temple in Fatmilak, for a price...
A temple to Waren (http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Aetheris_Pyrism/Pantheon), of course!
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Halicos would sell his own mother to the Zuma if it could net him a better deal on trades.
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Halicos would sell his own mother to the Zuma if it could net him a better deal on trades.
Well, greedy doesn't equal non-spiritual. Specially when he can worship a Goddess of trade, richness and such. ;)
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I think it's because last time SA sent a priest down that wasn't VonGenf, Nightling stabbed her. Oh wait, was that Allison? :D Can't imagine WHY someone would stab her. . .
Yea, Allison was in Paisly when she got attacked. Which is why Madina will one day convert or die... Part of the reason I took the deal to get Golden Farrow rather than colonize Flowrestown was because it put me in the middle of the continent. My tendrils will soon cover the whole continent! I will be the southernmost SA realm and we will continue to move south. Slowly, but surely.
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Yea, Allison was in Paisly when she got attacked. Which is why Madina will one day convert or die... Part of the reason I took the deal to get Golden Farrow rather than colonize Flowrestown was because it put me in the middle of the continent. My tendrils will soon cover the whole continent! I will be the southernmost SA realm and we will continue to move south. Slowly, but surely.
So you're currently... Biding your time? Shocking. I'm terribly shocked.
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So you're currently... Biding your time? Shocking. I'm terribly shocked.
My provocateuring is currently limited to discussions within the SA Elders. I am trying to reform the church and turn it into something that will be more united and much, much more active in Dwilight politics. I have no plans for anything with my realm. (Which will be founded soon!) I will build it up and see how things progress. I tend to pick fights at random for usually no good reason. One day I will get bored and do something wild and crazy.
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Halicos would sell his own mother to the Zuma if it could net him a better deal on trades.
Do I hear a hundred gold? One hundred gold anyone, for this fine specimen of a woman? Only three children have passed through her in her eighty years of life. One hundred gold for a woman who's pies are legendary in her home region of Tovabur?
Well, greedy doesn't equal non-spiritual. Specially when he can worship a Goddess of trade, richness and such. ;)
His heart is fairly laid with Sigrid (http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Darkanism#Sigrid). He converted when he was in Darka, he even got a lovely piece of armour forged in the fire of Mount Sinclair! But everything is up for sale, for the right price :P
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His heart is fairly laid with Sigrid (http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Darkanism#Sigrid). He converted when he was in Darka, he even got a lovely piece of armour forged in the fire of Mount Sinclair! But everything is up for sale, for the right price :P
Reminds me of Tyka (http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Aetheris_Pyrism/Pantheon) a lot. And the fire theme in Pyrism seems to fit very well. Sounds like a good approximation.
My policy is to either try to formalize my character's beliefs (making a religion), or to join a church which resembles them.
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I also always planned to bring back the worshiping of the ocean, VE showed up and partly covered the old madinan tradition but not enough.
It could be an intresting faith for it believe that the ocean, the big blue deep or 'er mercy.
Is some really cruel and anoyed entity that needs contsant praying and as less arogance as possible in order for her to remain calm and not to devour all the land into her endless deepness.
It also believes the under world is in the ocean.
It does not promote expansion of civilization, it would even discourage full expansion, in fear of 'er mercies wrath and not care much of peasant followers.
The temples would be like a hindu ghat place on the river but instead on the sea, where ships are blessed before they sail out, temples won't be built in inland regions.
The stars in the sky are a mere reflexion of the big blue deep and praying for mercy will keep the religion active, as its followers will see life as a war, fighting for her mercy, or perish.
Could have some funny rps too :P
I also see potential for alot of religious conflicts with all existing religions right now.
as it stands contray to the view of those existing religions.
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Psh - the only gods worth worshiping are the ones you can see.
All hail the Zuma! :D
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Psh - the only gods worth worshiping are the ones you can see.
All hail the Zuma! :D
exactly, so does Abbot.
If theres one thing hes afraid off... :P
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exactly, so does Abbot.
If theres one thing hes afraid off... :P
So basically, we're all secret Zuma-worshippers in Madina - terrified of what they will do should someone in the 'Moot anger them.
This could also explain why Nathan has 2000 bushels of food - he plans to buy his way into Zuma-heaven :D
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This could also explain why Nathan has 2000 bushels of food - he plans to buy his way into Zuma-heaven :D
Shhh! You'll bring the Zuma here! And we all know what happened last time they turned up *shudder*
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Shhh! You'll bring the Zuma here! And we all know what happened last time they turned up *shudder*
yeah, they like, talked with us and stuff...
*shivers*
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yeah, they like, talked with us and stuff...
But they did it in a really creepy way!
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But they did it in a really creepy way!
It's like that time on Beluaterra when we tried to create a failed realm in Athols Magos (spelling wrong), during the Enweil-Riombara war. But it failed due to the daimons and we were transferred into their realm, the Netherworld. I was younger then and didn't take advantage of the RP that was going on, but it was interesting for a time.
Sorry to jump off topic there. But there is no news on the southern front.
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Sorry to jump off topic there. But there is no news on the southern front.
Both are preparing for assualt, Cs is climbing again.
No news yet, but the news to come would be massive.
Dwilight will shake from the moving forces over the canal like never before.
Combined our armies will be far larger then those of the entire SA.
The quistion is, who will strike first? :P
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Combined our armies will be far larger then those of the entire SA.
I can hardly believe that.
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I can hardly believe that.
How much CS will be needed to break 20K behind level 5 walls?
Then figure that one of the two realms will need to get that much to make it a decent fight :P
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How much CS will be needed to break 20K behind level 5 walls?
Then figure that one of the two realms will need to get that much to make it a decent fight :P
Less soldiers, and more non-combat actions are what you need.
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Less soldiers, and more non-combat actions are what you need.
I would agree if such an option were available to be put into use.
All I have is some diplomacy options >.>
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I would agree if such an option were available to be put into use.
All I have is some diplomacy options >.>
It's a start.
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Shhh.
Madina doesn't use Diplomacy. Don't tell people things like that.
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Shhh.
Madina doesn't use Diplomacy. Don't tell people things like that.
Where like, way to proud for that :P
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Oh dear! Where is all our food going to go now that D'Hara doesn't want it...?
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Our warehouses are full right now. If you can't accept to sell it at the same price everyone else is, though, and you decide to stop our traders from buying when they pass through your lands, then that'd be violating our agreements. Besides, I doubt Aurvandil will have any issue with the new, so far temporary prices.
If others offered better, Madina would be selling elsewhere already anyways.
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If others offered better, Madina would be selling elsewhere already anyways.
BS, we need the Moot and especially D'hara more then simple profit, we all know that.
Madina and D'hara are alot alike in poltics and ideology.
This could one day mean a strong band.
To bad Duke Machievel seems to care little for it.
Madina used to trade with the Zuma before and will do so again.
We have two very expirienced traders.
We will see the D'harans crawling back to us eventually for even higher prices when they have to dig endless mass graves for the deceased peasants that died to the same starvation that held your realm in a deadly grip for years now.
besides why are you treathning us for doing something we(Madina) would probably never do in our right sense on the forums?
"If you can't accept to sell it at the same price everyone else is, though, and you decide to stop our traders from buying when they pass through your lands, then that'd be violating our agreements. Besides, I doubt Aurvandil will have any issue with the new, so far temporary prices."
It doesn't make sense, as if your OOC reminding me of not doing something specifically IC...
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Note that I wasn't the one who brought it up.
And Madina city is clearly a competitor, not a partner. It gathers food we otherwise would have had for much cheaper to then resell it to us, quite frankly causing Paisly's financial ruin. Paisly's caravans can reach most of Madina's rurals, after all.
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And Madina city is clearly a competitor, not a partner. It gathers food we otherwise would have had for much cheaper to then resell it to us, quite frankly causing Paisly's financial ruin. Paisly's caravans can reach most of Madina's rurals, after all.
Can't capitalist(-like) countries be friends or allies?
Is the NATO an illusion and none of those countries ever worked together or got along?
Madina is at war and of-course it will 'compete'/do what ever is possible and still honorable by its own norms, it can do to survive and take its land back.
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Can't capitalist(-like) countries be friends or allies?
Is the NATO and illusion and none of those countries ever worked together or got along?
Madina is at war and of-course it will 'compete'/do what ever is possible and still honorable by its own norms, it can do to survive and take its land back.
If Madina had olives and we had vines, then yea. But as the trade system is too simplistic, it's more mercantilism than true capitalism.
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Feck, sorry, I forgot forums don't allow sarcasm tags... >.<
It was more of a bump to the thread with a little joke about D'Hara not buying our food but us being able to sell it anyway >.<
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Note that I wasn't the one who brought it up.
And Madina city is clearly a competitor, not a partner. It gathers food we otherwise would have had for much cheaper to then resell it to us, quite frankly causing Paisly's financial ruin. Paisly's caravans can reach most of Madina's rurals, after all.
Hey now - I negotiated a large and constant supply of slightly less expensive food for you guys. . . took a lot of political power to get the Lords to agree to sell everything to Madina so it can all be shipped to Paisly en masse.
We can always go back to having Halicos hording 2000 bushels in Fatmilak and you guys starving all the time. . .
But really, my job is not to figure out that Abbot and you guys can't do the whole 45gp buy from :P Little busy with other things IC :P
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Hey now - I negotiated a large and constant supply of slightly less expensive food for you guys. . . took a lot of political power to get the Lords to agree to sell everything to Madina so it can all be shipped to Paisly en masse.
We can always go back to having Halicos hording 2000 bushels in Fatmilak and you guys starving all the time. . .
But really, my job is not to figure out that Abbot and you guys can't do the whole 45gp buy from :P Little busy with other things IC :P
I'm supposed to be glad that I have less access to the 35 food per 100 sell prices that many of your rurals had, and instead have to pay 50 for that same food I would have had access to otherwise?
Madina always was the least interesting trading partner because it was by far the most expensive. And while this last season they exported more than usual, so did other trading partners. Which goes in pair with an increasing internal food production thanks to the acquisition of Qubel and soon of the Lighthouse. Madina explains a part of our excess stocks right now, but they are just one supplier amongst many others.
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Chénier, remember that you control the prizes when your wharehouses are full. ;) The simple rule of supply and demand.
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Madina always was the least interesting trading partner because it was by far the most expensive.
Hey! I find that a completely insulting! Fatmilak's prices are reasonable :P
But in all seriousness, I've never had a D'Haran Lord even try to barter with Halicos. Vallyn does it all the time, Abbot had a bit of a go at it and a few other Madinans have done it in the past too. He had 2000 bushels sitting in the region dying to be bought, I'm pretty sure he even told you (or some D'Haran Lord) that and nobody bothered to say "well, I could buy the lot for 30 gold". He'd have jumped at that (well, maybe he'd have haggled a little) just to get rid of the damn stuff.
Chénier, remember that you control the prizes when your wharehouses are full. ;) The simple rule of supply and demand.
Not overly. There are quite a few other places to sell food, it's just D'Hara is the easiest. He probably has more bartering power than anyone else because it's easy to sell to him. If he pushes too far, we'll just move elsewhere. It takes a little longer to sell our food elsewhere, but it can be done.
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Hey! I find that a completely insulting! Fatmilak's prices are reasonable :P
But in all seriousness, I've never had a D'Haran Lord even try to barter with Halicos. Vallyn does it all the time, Abbot had a bit of a go at it and a few other Madinans have done it in the past too. He had 2000 bushels sitting in the region dying to be bought, I'm pretty sure he even told you (or some D'Haran Lord) that and nobody bothered to say "well, I could buy the lot for 30 gold". He'd have jumped at that (well, maybe he'd have haggled a little) just to get rid of the damn stuff.
I never had any reason to bother bartering with Halicos. I very rarely had any gold on hand and no markets open for trade. It happened on a few very rare occasions, but that was pretty much it. The Madinian imports always were a a small fraction of our total imports, and it always seemed more interesting to deal with others who had a lower starting price. I just look at my caravans page every now and then, select the cheapest 5 regions or so, and send my gold to these. If Halicos wants to make a profit, all he has to do is open his markets and reduce his sale prices. If he sells over 166 bushels at 30 gold, he's already making more gold than if he only sells 100 at 50.
Not overly. There are quite a few other places to sell food, it's just D'Hara is the easiest. He probably has more bartering power than anyone else because it's easy to sell to him. If he pushes too far, we'll just move elsewhere. It takes a little longer to sell our food elsewhere, but it can be done.
Not really. Everyone produces surpluses, though some realms' are much smaller than others. Everyone except D'Hara and the Zuma, that is (unless you want to consider Itau). And using D'Hara's ports and then Barcan lands to go sell to the Zuma directly is a sure way to sour relations between Madina and the 'moot.
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Not overly. There are quite a few other places to sell food, it's just D'Hara is the easiest. He probably has more bartering power than anyone else because it's easy to sell to him. If he pushes too far, we'll just move elsewhere. It takes a little longer to sell our food elsewhere, but it can be done.
There are more reason you are selling to D'Hara than it being easy. You are highly invested in a continues good relation with D'Hara. Therefore Chénier, can make demands about food prizes at the moment, as long as it is considered reasonable in the eyes of the 'Moot.
And yes, as Chénier states, selling to other realms through the ports of D'Hara will not do your realtion with them very good. ;) Leaving you with only the Lurians.
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And yes, as Chénier states, selling to other realms through the ports of D'Hara will not do your realtion with them very good. ;) Leaving you with only the Lurians.
Who can use the food.
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Who can use the food.
But don't really need it, and can shop elsewhere easily to get good prices.
And I'm gambling that they won't buy food at 50 gold per 100.
Edit: As a matter of fact, the Lurias as a whole, once they reach full production in their regions, would likely produce a surplus of up to three times D'Hara's deficit if they fix their monster issues, or otherwise at least 1.5 times. Just goes to show that if the Lurians want some spare bushels now to be on the safe side in case of bad harvests and unmanageable hordes, they will continue being net producers.
Edit2: In fact, I calculate that the Lurias' surplus (both of them combined) will be greater than Madina's.
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You assume Luria isn't planning on expanding to areas that have poor food production as soon as possible.
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You assume Luria isn't planning on expanding to areas that have poor food production as soon as possible.
Except for the mountains, you got nothing but a bunch of rurals around you. And even mountains produce a surplus in food in almost all cases I've seen, abeit a very small one.
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Except for the mountains, you got nothing but a bunch of rurals around you. And even mountains produce a surplus in food in almost all cases I've seen, abeit a very small one.
Some of the Balance mountains have food production in the single digits.
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Except for the mountains, you got nothing but a bunch of rurals around you. And even mountains produce a surplus in food in almost all cases I've seen, abeit a very small one.
I'm 99% sure the Divide Mountains don't produce a surplus.
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I'm 99% sure the Divide Mountains don't produce a surplus.
South Divide, for example, wouldn't even need a food production with 2 digits to make a surplus. That's kinda what happens when you only have 350 as a max pop count. All of those regions I bothered to calculate will make surpluses.
The only things that might create deficits, other than cities, are maybe badlands. I don't have access to the food output of those to calculate, though.
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Some of the Balance mountains have food production in the single digits.
And correspondingly tiny populations. Remember that it only take 1 bushel to feed 500 peasants for a day. A region that produces 7 bushels can keep 500 people fed.
I'm 99% sure the Divide Mountains don't produce a surplus.
I'm almost positive that every region other than a full fledged city can support itself.
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And correspondingly tiny populations. Remember that it only take 1 bushel to feed 500 peasants for a day. A region that produces 7 bushels can keep 500 people fed.
I'm almost positive that every region other than a full fledged city can support itself.
Indeed, now that I think it over, even the deserts must have surpluses because of how tiny their population count is.
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Indeed, now that I think it over, even the deserts must have surpluses because of how tiny their population count is.
The point I was trying to make is that those regions don't have enough food to bother trading with.
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And correspondingly tiny populations. Remember that it only take 1 bushel to feed 500 peasants for a day. A region that produces 7 bushels can keep 500 people fed.
I'm almost positive that every region other than a full fledged city can support itself.
Assuming you lose absolutely nothing to hordes, which is impossible. The normal loss you'll sustain from having a horde form and the immediate food eating is catastrophic at such low food levels.
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The point I was trying to make is that those regions don't have enough food to bother trading with.
Still, these regions won't drain Lurias' demands, but slightly increase it.
Assuming you lose absolutely nothing to hordes, which is impossible. The normal loss you'll sustain from having a horde form and the immediate food eating is catastrophic at such low food levels.
Indeed, but the Lurias' potential surplus is enough to deal with all but the most serious of disasters.
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Indeed, but the Lurias' potential surplus is enough to deal with all but the most serious of disasters.
In the Divide Mountains alone, sure.
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In the Divide Mountains alone, sure.
In all of it, once population in the rurals is high enough to grant the potential of 100% production. I don't have your total potential population calculated (though I calculated as if Giask had already reached its full potential by adding 50000 peasants to current pop), but even with pessimistic production level projections I obtain a safe surplus. The problem is mostly if big hordes interrupt your food transfers and eat a ton of food in a bunch of regions right before winter.
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Who can use the food.
I'm more than happy to sell copious amounts to Giask. :) Especially if we can use it to firm up relations between them and Fissoa.
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In all of it, once population in the rurals is high enough to grant the potential of 100% production. I don't have your total potential population calculated (though I calculated as if Giask had already reached its full potential by adding 50000 peasants to current pop), but even with pessimistic production level projections I obtain a safe surplus. The problem is mostly if big hordes interrupt your food transfers and eat a ton of food in a bunch of regions right before winter.
And what happens to your calculations if you add the Flow Peninsula?
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chenier you just don't get how Abbot works i geuss.
Hes kind like an indian businessmen, he likes to know you first, who you are, your family and establish a relation based on respect and a sort of friendship.
He sees a real trade relation like the one between him and your character, like something you do together.
If you lower the price you ask the other one if he'd agree to it, even if you have no other choice then to lower it, Abbot would suspect you to negociate/talk about it first.
it's like living together as a couple, when the couple has a sort of equal relationship, one of them doesn't go just redecorate the house or make other decisions all by him or her self without getting into a fight.
Sometimes you know something in the house just has to change, but usually its more tactful to just discuss it first, even if you already know the answer. (especialy with women, we men tend to care less about all this, women these days don't want to feel second handed or 'less' equal(such a shame :P) )
This is how Abbot also sees his long term trade relations with Machiavel.
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You are highly invested in a continues good relation with D'Hara. Therefore Chénier, can make demands about food prizes at the moment
Hahahahaha, you've not met Halicos. He couldn't give a crap if not selling to D'Hara means Madina gets a bad rep, he just wants his gold. It's up to Vallyn to ensure Madina's reputation is upheld since he's Grand Doge. If the Duke of Paisly got in touch with him and said "hey, that Halicos bloke is a knob", Vallyn would agree, barter with Halicos, and the Duke would eventually get his cheap food. Simply ignoring Madina and not trying to barter with us is certainly not the way to get cheap food.
If D'Hara doesn't want Madina's food, that's fine. As I've said, there are other sources of food available for them and there are other places we can sell to (we have a rather big lot of our food going to Luria Nova, for example). The Zuma will buy our food for a nice price, it just takes us a while to get there. The main reason I've not pushed for it to be sold there before is because Corin has preferred to sell elsewhere and I'm not about to start ordering him to Zuma lands.
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Assuming you lose absolutely nothing to hordes, which is impossible. The normal loss you'll sustain from having a horde form and the immediate food eating is catastrophic at such low food levels.
The regions still produce a surplus. Whether or not you can defend the region and protect it from monsters is another question entirely. But I still wouldn't call losing your entire 5 bushel store to monsters "catastrophic".
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And what happens to your calculations if you add the Flow Peninsula?
I don't have the data for that as I can't check up rogue regions on Dwilight. There are many rurals in that area, though, so if it's deficitary I doubt it would be all that bad.
chenier you just don't get how Abbot works i geuss.
Hes kind like an indian businessmen, he likes to know you first, who you are, your family and establish a relation based on respect and a sort of friendship.
He sees a real trade relation like the one between him and your character, like something you do together.
If you lower the price you ask the other one if he'd agree to it, even if you have no other choice then to lower it, Abbot would suspect you to negociate/talk about it first.
it's like living together as a couple, when the couple has a sort of equal relationship, one of them doesn't go just redecorate the house or make other decisions all by him or her self without getting into a fight.
Sometimes you know something in the house just has to change, but usually its more tactful to just discuss it first, even if you already know the answer. (especialy with women, we men tend to care less about all this, women these days don't want to feel second handed or 'less' equal(such a shame :P) )
This is how Abbot also sees his long term trade relations with Machiavel.
Obviously he sees the trade agreement as something that should be static and unchanging, because the trade agreement is grossly in favor of Abbot. It's all free money for him, as he just dishes out stuff he doesn't need and Paisly turns it into money. Long-term, Madina is nowhere in D'Hara's food plans, because it's just way too greedy with a bloated sense of self-entitlement. The total apathy for Paisly's financial troubles and the threats of selling elsewhere and bloating prices if a crisis occurs really isn't making him any friends at all, but rather pushes D'Hara to help other markets grow so as to cut all trade with Madina as soon as possible.
Hahahahaha, you've not met Halicos. He couldn't give a crap if not selling to D'Hara means Madina gets a bad rep, he just wants his gold. It's up to Vallyn to ensure Madina's reputation is upheld since he's Grand Doge. If the Duke of Paisly got in touch with him and said "hey, that Halicos bloke is a knob", Vallyn would agree, barter with Halicos, and the Duke would eventually get his cheap food. Simply ignoring Madina and not trying to barter with us is certainly not the way to get cheap food.
If D'Hara doesn't want Madina's food, that's fine. As I've said, there are other sources of food available for them and there are other places we can sell to (we have a rather big lot of our food going to Luria Nova, for example). The Zuma will buy our food for a nice price, it just takes us a while to get there. The main reason I've not pushed for it to be sold there before is because Corin has preferred to sell elsewhere and I'm not about to start ordering him to Zuma lands.
You fail to understand that you will *never* trade to the Zuma again. And that D'Hara has many other markets to purchase from, and that the Lurias are only a short-term buyer because they produce surpluses and will not require your food once they have safe-enough surpluses stashed away.
The regions still produce a surplus. Whether or not you can defend the region and protect it from monsters is another question entirely. But I still wouldn't call losing your entire 5 bushel store to monsters "catastrophic".
Agreed. If you have significant food levels in a plagued region, you can easily move it away until the rogue problem is dealt with.
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The regions still produce a surplus. Whether or not you can defend the region and protect it from monsters is another question entirely. But I still wouldn't call losing your entire 5 bushel store to monsters "catastrophic".
Horde spawns at turn, immediately does damage to the region and eats the food. There's literally nothing you can do about that, even if you had an army there it still happens. And if you don't have an army sitting in the region, then it takes time to kick the horde out.
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Horde spawns at turn, immediately does damage to the region and eats the food. There's literally nothing you can do about that, even if you had an army there it still happens. And if you don't have an army sitting in the region, then it takes time to kick the horde out.
Do they eat hundreds of bushels on the turn they spawn, though? Does production drop 50%?
Considering how large Luria is, any one region damaged really changes little when you consider the whole thing.
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Do they eat hundreds of bushels on the turn they spawn, though? Does production drop 50%?
Considering how large Luria is, any one region damaged really changes little when you consider the whole thing.
Seventy plus isn't uncommon. Production drops of 5-10% are fairly common. I don't know what that would do to one of the Divide Mountains, considering their population.
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Horde spawns at turn, immediately does damage to the region and eats the food. There's literally nothing you can do about that, even if you had an army there it still happens. And if you don't have an army sitting in the region, then it takes time to kick the horde out.
Spread your food around then, or keep it in cities that are less likely to have spawns.
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Seventy plus isn't uncommon. Production drops of 5-10% are fairly common. I don't know what that would do to one of the Divide Mountains, considering their population.
Considering you can probably get max pop from 1 peasant in about a day for these regions thanks to emigration, I'd say it wouldn't really do much at all to them.
And I concur with egamma: if you can't defend a region, don't stash your food there.
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Spread your food around then, or keep it in cities that are less likely to have spawns.
Heh, that is with most of the food stuffed into the cities and townslands, and keeping what's left distributed.
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Still, 75 food is significant, but not dramatic. I would wish that these damages wouldn't occur before combat can occur, though.
It all depends on the frequency of the rogue spawns and of the will and speed to deal with the issues.
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You fail to understand that you will *never* trade to the Zuma again. And that D'Hara has many other markets to purchase from,
As I've said, there are other sources of food available for them [the D'Harans]
Darling, I understand you're angry, but please don't just repeat me, it furthers no discussion ;)
As for the Zuma, is that a threat? Or a promise? Because I'm fairly certain both of those you are in no position to make. Threats cannot be backed up as we know how wars go between D'Hara and Madina. A promise would be rather dependant on knowing the future, so I'll take the numbers of the Euro lottery now please :)
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Still, 75 food is significant, but not dramatic. I would wish that these damages wouldn't occur before combat can occur, though.
It all depends on the frequency of the rogue spawns and of the will and speed to deal with the issues.
I never said they were insurmountable. I said they skewed the numbers to the point where I want to buy food from outside sources. Which, happily, I can do.
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Darling, I understand you're angry, but please don't just repeat me, it furthers no discussion ;)
As for the Zuma, is that a threat? Or a promise? Because I'm fairly certain both of those you are in no position to make. Threats cannot be backed up as we know how wars go between D'Hara and Madina. A promise would be rather dependant on knowing the future, so I'll take the numbers of the Euro lottery now please :)
Indeed we do know: they result in Madina getting their asses kicked. Considering how hard a time Madina has with Aurvandil, I would dare say the last thing they need is to piss off the 'moot. Most are pro-neutrality, but that's an extremely fragile balance. Because really, Aurvandil amasses bigger armies and does great damage on all their own, without even any siege engines, right? How well would Madina fare if troops and siege engines were granted to allow Aurvandil to break the Tower? How then would Madina fend off Aurvandil, if they lose access to the tower?
Fact is, Madina doesn't own rights to any of the passages to the Zuma. Neither Barca nor D'Hara would allow foreigners to use their lands to sell to the Zuma. Unless you plan on taking the land route to Mimer, and then go to the Zuma via Astrum. Then be our guests, you'd be fully in your rights.
As I said, most favor neutrality. But if you go pissing off the 'moot by trespassing, then you do so at your own risk and perils. Madina's recent proclamations of good intent were well received, but these gains would be very easy to ruin.
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Because really, Aurvandil amasses bigger armies and does great damage on all their own, without even any siege engines, right? How well would Madina fare if troops and siege engines were granted to allow Aurvandil to break the Tower? How then would Madina fend off Aurvandil, if they lose access to the tower?
Actually Aurvandil fields Siege Engines, as they have a workshop in their Capital. And huge damage? Please - the only damage they ever did was when they broke the ceasefire initially and attacked our near-empty Capital. Otherwise they've lost every battle they ever came to, and usually quite badly.
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Actually Aurvandil fields Siege Engines, as they have a workshop in their Capital. And huge damage? Please - the only damage they ever did was when they broke the ceasefire initially and attacked our near-empty Capital. Otherwise they've lost every battle they ever came to, and usually quite badly.
Of course, the tower has walls and the forces were about the same size. I don't remember any siege engines in the last battle report.
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Of course, the tower has walls and the forces were about the same size. I don't remember any siege engines in the last battle report.
Darling, please don't provoke the scary pirates with a 25,000 CS army. At least not until yours hits 6,000 CS again.
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Darling, please don't provoke the scary pirates with a 25,000 CS army. At least not until yours hits 6,000 CS again.
Didn't you know? The moot will back him up, even if they don't want to because, well its Dominic :)
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Of course, the tower has walls and the forces were about the same size. I don't remember any siege engines in the last battle report.
"There are 31 siege engines at the walls."
They brought them :)
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Darling, please don't provoke the scary pirates with a 25,000 CS army. At least not until yours hits 6,000 CS again.
Provoking? I'm just saying stuff OOC.
Madina can try to attack us all they want, I'd love to see them defend themselves with their army on the sea route to ram into Paisly's walls again... And we both know D'Hara doesn't even bother trying to field an army because we basically see a total of 5 monsters every two years or so. If we hit 6000 CS, then that's 6000 CS too much!
But I'm not doing any provoking IC.
As for the battle, I guess I was thinking of an older battle or something.
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Chenier, don't worry, we'll scare you guys alright.
Just you wait, this is nothing yet.
even though a war between D'hara and Madina is very unlikley in the future, unless machiavel keeps pissing them off.
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Chenier, don't worry, we'll scare you guys alright.
Just you wait, this is nothing yet.
even though a war between D'hara and Madina is very unlikley in the future, unless machiavel keeps pissing them off.
*rattles his chains and writes "woooooooo war!" letters to D'Hara*
Attacking D'Hara is so. . . prior to them buying food from us :P
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Attacking D'Hara is so. . . prior to them buying food from us :P
But they're not buying from us any more... so that means... umm... bake them muffins and ask nicely to buy again?
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But they're not buying from us any more... so that means... umm... bake them muffins and ask nicely to buy again?
oeew, oewww, what about a nice ginger lemon pie? i learned such a fabulous glaceing technique out of this magazine back at the hair saloon! That pie will shine like a freshly bleached anus, mmhh mh!
They would totally go for it, i mean like: who would ever resist THAT!?
*repositions his uncomfortably, impractically 'stylish' tiny hand bag, hanging from his shoulder*
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Sjeesh, just wait till we've build more Warehouses, impatient people ;)
Though Ill never say no to muffins! Bonus!
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Sjeesh, just wait till we've build more Warehouses, impatient people ;)
No! I want you to buy our food NOW! NOOOOOOOOW! *pouts*
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Chenier, don't worry, we'll scare you guys alright.
Just you wait, this is nothing yet.
even though a war between D'hara and Madina is very unlikley in the future, unless machiavel keeps pissing them off.
You mean, unless Abbot keeps pissing them off, surely? 8)
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No! I want you to buy our food NOW! NOOOOOOOOW! *pouts*
Lower your prices and consider it done. 8)
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No! I want you to buy our food NOW! NOOOOOOOOW! *pouts*
Are you planning to attack someone that you need D'Hara's gold right now? :D Is about time that Madina shows some initiative in this war.
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Winter ends in 4 days, then foreign markets will all re-open again as they always do after the next harvest. We got plenty of food to last 'till then.
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Lower your prices and consider it done. 8)
Sweeten the deal and maybe you'll find us more cooperative ;)
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So when is Madina gonna bring the war to us, eh? :o
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So when is Madina gonna bring the war to us, eh? :o
Tomorrow. I thought you knew? Being up in Agl was always going to be a bad idea... 8)
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So when is Madina gonna bring the war to us, eh? :o
Yesterday according to orders sent out last week ¬¬
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Yea. . . I'd have liked to attacked already.
But, sadly, that's not how things go -.-
If you want to move most of your army to Barca we'll gladly start, otherwise just be patient :P Or come attack us. . .
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So. Anyone think this war will be done this year or if both sides will manage to hold on?
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So. Anyone think this war will be done this year or if both sides will manage to hold on?
Nope, definitely not. Both sides are too slow to act and when they do they mess up. If one side just built up a massive force with a decent balance of forces, plenty of paraphernalia and then went for the other, they could very easily break through. But neither side is perfect, which means they both just end up slamming people against walls.
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I haven't been in Madina for too long, but I have seen us pass good opportunities by, which is a shame. This war COULD be done by the end of the year, but only if such opportunities were capitalized, which I very much doubt will happen.
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The issue is if any side blunders badly it is over - much easier to play the defensive game and hope the enemy tries to capitalize on a perceived mistake. then go all out.
This war - if one of the Capitals gets properly sacked - will be done and over with quickly.
Basically who ever makes the first mistake will lose - no big mistakes make this a very hard war to win given the capital - capital attacks.
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But would it be over if Madina lost its capital, or got it sacked? They'd be the underdogs at that point, unlike now, which obviously wouldn't be ideal but would they surrender Candiels or even the tower for peace? Or would they fight on, whether from a halfway decimated tower or from Madina city? Just curious.
And a question for Aurvandil players, because leaving them out isn't very fair :o Now that Evanburg has been settled, diplomatically speaking, how much is it actually helping? Is the income and food production significant and lending you an edge in the war or is it helpful but nothing special?
Things I'd be curious about, but have little real incentive IC to wonder about.
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But would it be over if Madina lost its capital, or got it sacked? They'd be the underdogs at that point, unlike now, which obviously wouldn't be ideal but would they surrender Candiels or even the tower for peace? Or would they fight on, whether from a halfway decimated tower or from Madina city? Just curious.
And a question for Aurvandil players, because leaving them out isn't very fair :o Now that Evanburg has been settled, diplomatically speaking, how much is it actually helping? Is the income and food production significant and lending you an edge in the war or is it helpful but nothing special?
Things I'd be curious about, but have little real incentive IC to wonder about.
recovering from losing your capital, the usually excellent RC's that are in the capital, the boost to the income the other realm will get from controlling another city the cost of moving your capital and the fact that your core regions are no longer defended by a choke point, yeah losing the capital should be game over for either in terms of being able to really contest the war. You might make a stand and manage to get peace while retaining something of the realm, but unless something serious intervenes retaking the lost regions would be a hard slog.
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Since the only city Aurvandil has is their capital, it's hard to see how they could recover from losing it. :D
Personally, I wonder if this standoff will continue until one of the two realms slips up and manages to somehow fail to pay their ridiculously oversized army.
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Since the only city Aurvandil has is their capital, it's hard to see how they could recover from losing it. :D
Personally, I wonder if this standoff will continue until one of the two realms slips up and manages to somehow fail to pay their ridiculously oversized army.
I think both sides are praying the other runs out of gold first :)
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I think both sides are praying the other runs out of gold first :)
Madina may do that soon :P
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Madina may do that soon :P
we're biding our time scoffing as Madina's high remarks and bold blunders! :P
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What blunders are Madina making?
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Not using their resources as sufficient as Aurvandil.
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Not using their resources as sufficient as Aurvandil.
Fair point. On the other hand, Aurvandil's running a military either at the limit or beyond what they can properly afford. I'd expect there's less strain on Madina for the same output, or close enough. Course, that's all well and good if Madina can raise their game but if Aurvandil's smaller size allows them run higher tax rates and recruit for cheaper, then perhaps Madina won't be able to sufficiently raise their game to beat the fortifications.
Which, obviously, is what players in both Aurvandil and Madina are pointing to. One side or the other need to mess up to actually stand a chance. If it wasn't for Nathan stating that Madina could run out of gold soon, I'd have actually suspected Madina would be able to afford to quietly build a warchest to invoke for a quick and decisive strike. If Aurvandil is making proper use of Evanburg though, perhaps Madina don't have that luxury.
Who's to say? Well, maybe the people in the realms in question. From my perspective, its all good though. No one like's sitting in a city doing nothing all day, every day. What will probably decide this war is the bleeding of nobles who are beginning to get bored senseless. That's no theory, since Barca's already received at least a couple for that precise reason.
We'll see, I suppose.
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If it wasn't for Nathan stating that Madina could run out of gold soon
Soon, yes. Long term, we're fine. We just had a bit of a bump :P
If Aurvandil move out in about 1/2 week's time, they'll probably catch Madina off guard. Sooner and we've still got cash. Later and we'll be on the up.
Partly because we had less than usual harvest recently, partly because Madina revolted (we have no idea why, all the stats were high) and took 600 gold. That lack of gold will probably hit us in a bit. Might not be too bad if some people have stockpiles of bonds, but we certainly won't be as strong as we could be.
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Harte! Get those bloody troops on that bloody ferry now, and cut anchor in two days time.
Why on the ferry so soon? Nobles have a tendancy of wandering off with their troops >:(
Yeah, we were doing fine on the harvests until the end of winter and they still haven't recovered as much as I'd like. Doesn't help I have more mouths to feed. I'm hoping to ship them mouths off to Tweetsville shortly. Really though, the less gold shouldn't hurt too badly. It just means some of your nobles can't actually send gold back to their family next week, or people are going to have to do with one scout rather than eight. Such a thing as too much of a rush.
Seriously though, I hope your food situation sorts itself out quickly. Mainly cause ours should be good by then too, and D'Hara will take anyone's food. Except the Zuma. They're not stupid.
Finn.
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Seriously though, I hope your food situation sorts itself out quickly. Mainly cause ours should be good by then too, and D'Hara will take anyone's food. Except the Zuma. They're not stupid.
Last I heard, we weren't in D'Hara's good books for food selling :P
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Pah. That's only because I'm undercutting you. Market forces. Your prices will go down eventually because it will mean quick steady income to help you fight your war and because you realize Aurvandil's still selling and you don't want them to outpace your gold income.
Maybe not in the good books. But its probably only temporary, I suspect.
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Harte! Get those bloody troops on that bloody ferry now, and cut anchor in two days time.
Why on the ferry so soon? Nobles have a tendancy of wandering off with their troops >:(
Yeah, we were doing fine on the harvests until the end of winter and they still haven't recovered as much as I'd like. Doesn't help I have more mouths to feed. I'm hoping to ship them mouths off to Tweetsville shortly. Really though, the less gold shouldn't hurt too badly. It just means some of your nobles can't actually send gold back to their family next week, or people are going to have to do with one scout rather than eight. Such a thing as too much of a rush.
Seriously though, I hope your food situation sorts itself out quickly. Mainly cause ours should be good by then too, and D'Hara will take anyone's food. Except the Zuma. They're not stupid.
Finn.
We're not going to make another assault unless Madina comes out and says their too scared to attack us and are gonna go get fat in their tower instead.. which is what it's looking more like. Even with their ally Fissoa I doubt they could overcome our defenses.
As for food, I do believe I'll be taking over Royal Purser in Aurvandil soon. Perhaps D'hara will be more pleasant with a familiarish 'Moot face :P We'll see, but really, Madina needs to show she's got the fight in her.. not just the talk XD
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Last I heard, we weren't in D'Hara's good books for food selling :P
Well, we have quite a stockpile at the moment, so there's no need for us to pay 50 gold.
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Well, we have quite a stockpile at the moment, so there's no need for us to pay 50 gold.
That's far too much to be paying..
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We're not going to make another assault unless Madina comes out and says their too scared to attack us and are gonna go get fat in their tower instead.. which is what it's looking more like. Even with their ally Fissoa I doubt they could overcome our defenses.
As for food, I do believe I'll be taking over Royal Purser in Aurvandil soon. Perhaps D'hara will be more pleasant with a familiarish 'Moot face :P We'll see, but really, Madina needs to show she's got the fight in her.. not just the talk XD
We'd have more than enough troops - if Fissoa sent her entire army. But she doesn't, which means fighting 24K mobile against 21K defenses against level 5 walls. . which won't work. Then again, Aurvandil smashed 18K into 14K against level 3 walls and lost so. . . this is where that stalemate comes in.
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We'd have more than enough troops - if Fissoa sent her entire army. But she doesn't, which means fighting 24K mobile against 21K defenses against level 5 walls. . which won't work. Then again, Aurvandil smashed 18K into 14K against level 3 walls and lost so. . . this is where that stalemate comes in.
Cold War in Madina?
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Cold War in Madina?
Lets hope not.
Hopefully the recent attacks will create new opportunities.
If the war turns cold, i sure hope it will escalate in a world war.
Can't wait for Dwilight to seriously escalate.
There lots of causes, but they seems to keep a certain balance, refraining from total escalation.
We'll see.
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Well technically... The war between SA and Caerwyn, Averoth, and Madina was a "World War" so far as Dwilight is concerned... a very one-sided one though.
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Well technically... The war between SA and Caerwyn, Averoth, and Madina was a "World War" so far as Dwilight is concerned... a very one-sided one though.
Pardon, what? I don't remember that war :S
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Well technically... The war between SA and Caerwyn, Averoth, and Madina was a "World War" so far as Dwilight is concerned... a very one-sided one though.
Eh, except it left out half the world. But, it was still quite large, probably the largest ever as far as Dwilight goes.
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Madina just used the Caerwyn mercenaries as archer fodder early today, then got smashed again in Candiels Fields. We have it together more than they think.
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Madina just used the Caerwyn mercenaries as archer fodder early today, then got smashed again in Candiels Fields. We have it together more than they think.
You say, as Evansburg revolts.
We didn't even get our army that far in and it still turned over to you :( Gee. Any other regions want to revolt right quick?
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Funny how our diplomatic sort, our ruler in fact, happened to be having a visit with his close friends down in Candiels when Evanburg flipped. Coincidence?
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You say, as Evansburg revolts.
We didn't even get our army that far in and it still turned over to you :( Gee. Any other regions want to revolt right quick?
Which means it wasnt your doing, so what do you want? A medal?
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Which means it wasnt your doing, so what do you want? A medal?
Is it shiny? :D
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Which means it wasnt your doing, so what do you want? A medal?
I believe his point was that their activities are preventing the realm from spending as much time as they need to on region maintenance. In other words while you might have it together more then people think (which is odd since most of us are assuming that with the super active Saxons you have it together just fine) you don't have it together enough to guard you southern border and maintain your north.
A fair comment, maybe not but when you have a habit of bragging about every realm you belong to you are going to have to expect to attract some flak back.
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Bad strategic thinking on the Madinian side of the Candiels' Narrow :P
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It is one turn from Candiels to Tower Fatmilak. What is causing the attacks in waves?
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It is one turn from Candiels to Tower Fatmilak. What is causing the attacks in waves?
Because the mighty military genius in Vallyn decided to have one group of people run through Candiels and up to their northern regions, hoping the army would follow so the remainder could walk into Candiels. Then he decided that it should be a full day movement from The Tower to Candiels, despite even Halicos with his 6 hours a day and 140 archers could make it in a single turn.
To be fair, we needed something different so the first thing I can excuse. But a full turn move was silly.
However, with half our army dead, the other half over recruiting, I think we may be sitting on our arses for another month ¬¬
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Because the mighty military genius in Vallyn decided to have one group of people run through Candiels and up to their northern regions, hoping the army would follow so the remainder could walk into Candiels. Then he decided that it should be a full day movement from The Tower to Candiels, despite even Halicos with his 6 hours a day and 140 archers could make it in a single turn.
To be fair, we needed something different so the first thing I can excuse. But a full turn move was silly.
However, with half our army dead, the other half over recruiting, I think we may be sitting on our arses for another month ¬¬
Hey now - I would have ordered a half-turn move. I however, was not the one issuing orders as I was at work when the decision was made.
To be fair though, with the movement we DID get, it would have been a disaster anyways.
Also - I would like to argue that MY plan, was not the one we went with. The Military Chamber voted for a different plan than the one I proposed. As far as I'm concerned the plan we went with was basically doomed from the get go because it didn't account for ACTUAL game mechanics.
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ow yeah, blame the fat drunkerd, theeere we go again.... ::)
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ow yeah, blame the fat drunkerd, theeere we go again.... ::)
Well it's a pretty classic target... :P
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It saddens me that you turned around. It would have been fun to see Loathin again, and to finally meet Vallyn.
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To be fair though, with the movement we DID get, it would have been a disaster anyways.
Weekends, 'nuff said :P
To be honest, if we'd have had everyone move at the same time, preferably in time for tomorrow morning's turn, we'd have had a good chance at breaking through the walls.
I'm just rather miffed as a player. We sit on our arses for weeks, then orders come at a silly time of night (I only just got them before going to bed), then we turn around (again at late notice). So now the foreseeable future is "sit on your arse, the battle will come". But Halicos is happy for now so y'know, no complaining from me :P
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Weekends, 'nuff said :P
To be honest, if we'd have had everyone move at the same time, preferably in time for tomorrow morning's turn, we'd have had a good chance at breaking through the walls.
I'm just rather miffed as a player. We sit on our arses for weeks, then orders come at a silly time of night (I only just got them before going to bed), then we turn around (again at late notice). So now the foreseeable future is "sit on your arse, the battle will come". But Halicos is happy for now so y'know, no complaining from me :P
Ditto, OOC I'm really not impressed with the way things went - everything happened while I was at work, I can't make turn changes on the weekends. . .just bash my head into the desk. I wanted a real siege and we missed an awesome opportunity to have one. -.- Now it's back to refit and more boring ass waiting.
My only OOC hope is the Aurvandil folks come and play with us, cause this is getting boring (and frustrating).
IC wise, Vallyn see's lots of chances and is alright with the outcome as it gave us info. But hed still rather just a one-time-epic battle.
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I believe his point was that their activities are preventing the realm from spending as much time as they need to on region maintenance. In other words while you might have it together more then people think (which is odd since most of us are assuming that with the super active Saxons you have it together just fine) you don't have it together enough to guard you southern border and maintain your north.
A fair comment, maybe not but when you have a habit of bragging about every realm you belong to you are going to have to expect to attract some flak back.
Actually I don't brag about every realm, just my favorites. Please, don't exaggerate it.
As for the war, Aurvandil will probably attack eventually. We don't cherish the thought of waiting for Madina to attack, either, and with our left over CS we will probably wait a tax or two to boost our strength to ya know, 25k-30k CS. But I don't have much say or idea what our military plans. I get to play with food, one of Madina's favorite past times, but not so much mine.
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Actually I don't brag about every realm, just my favorites. Please, stop assuming stupid things about me.
My god your right, I can see at least TWO WHOLE REALMS you haven't bragged about, pity one of them wasn't OW.
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My god your right, I can see at least TWO WHOLE REALMS you haven't bragged about, pity one of them wasn't OW.
Cool your jets, man. Is it that big of a deal to you? I've seen a TON OF BRAGGING on the forums. And a ton of dissing for that matter, in fact you're the "disser" here, so have some respect and stop being rude.
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Cool your jets, man. Is it that big of a deal to you? I've seen a TON OF BRAGGING on the forums. And a ton of dissing for that matter, in fact you're the "disser" here, so have some respect and stop being rude.
People can brag all they want, I was pointing out that if you don't want return fire don't brag in the first place. It is disingenuous to brag constantly about Aurvandil and claim that every woe that befalls Madina is somehow a victory to the realm, then turn around and have a little hissy fit when someone from Madina does the same.
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People can brag all they want, I was pointing out that if you don't want return fire don't brag in the first place. It is disingenuous to brag constantly about Aurvandil and claim that every woe that befalls Madina is somehow a victory to the realm, then turn around and have a little hissy fit when someone from Madina does the same.
Wait, so you're implying that by saying "Which means it wasnt your doing, so what do you want? A medal?" is a hissy fit? I didn't have a fit when they shot something back at me, I was going for sarcasm in that post, not anger or frustration. Did I claim that the revolt in Madina was our doing? No, I didn't. Did I brag about the awesome extent of Aurvandil's roleplays? Nope. Very little happens in Aurvandil other than training our units and once in a while dealing with rogues and Madina. So when something exciting happens, like fighting Madina, I can't but feel a bit proud of our realm.
And really, it's not just the Saxons who make Aurvandil an active and organized place, you give them too much credit.
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Wait, so you're implying that by saying "Which means it wasnt your doing, so what do you want? A medal?" is a hissy fit? I didn't have a fit when they shot something back at me, I was going for sarcasm in that post, not anger or frustration. Did I claim that the revolt in Madina was our doing? No, I didn't. Did I brag about the awesome extent of Aurvandil's roleplays? Nope. Very little happens in Aurvandil other than training our units and once in a while dealing with rogues and Madina. So when something exciting happens, like fighting Madina, I can't but feel a bit proud of our realm.
And really, it's not just the Saxons who make Aurvandil an active and organized place, you give them too much credit.
You guys don't even have fun rps?
Atleast we start drinking when where bored, alot of things sudenly seems so much more fun... :P
But seriously, this conflict is needs to escalate.
Hopefuly Aurvendils anounced genocide on Madinan nobles will help.
I WANT A DWILIGHT WIDE WAR!
The Luriens should start involving and things will eventually grow out in a massive war.
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The Luriens should start involving and things will eventually grow out in a massive war.
Sorry, we are busy rebelling. The rumors say a new one is coming soon, we have been having a stable government for too long.
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Sorry, we are busy rebelling.
really? i thought that was a joke?! haha
Seriously, why?
Perhaps a common enemy will unite you guys together again.
Don't you see Aurvendil as the enemy of nobility its self? :P
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The Luriens should start involving and things will eventually grow out in a massive war.
If you could either the Véinsørmoot or the Lurians to intervene, the opposite one would probably jump in as well. Then, it may not be a Dwilight Wide War, but it would be a southern half of the continent wide war and it would be a pretty big show, for sure. It would get messy.
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Don't you see Aurvendil as the enemy of nobility its self? :P
I think they would rather target the Grand Duchy of Fissoa.
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I think they would rather target the Grand Duchy of Fissoa.
I think they would rather target D'hara.
They have settled there issues with Fissoa.
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Ignoring the lot of you while focusing on our own problems and expansion plans is a far better plan at this stage. I got a real kick out of the Aurvandil judges attempts at justifying their new kill all enemies policy, and in PeL we're not that impressed with it, but so far as entering the war, we see this as a internal issue, just like our own rebellions. No need for outside forces to intervene, at least not our forces.
Besides the governments at home HAVE been rather stable, and at the moment the constant internal conflict isn't reaching a point where you can identify a likely rebel party, that in itself is a bit concerning and warrants focusing on the home front. Even if the Moot does decide to get involved, I can't see influencing the Lurian perspective, short of trying to annex Fissoa every now and then we are a rather insular bunch, and the driving force to annex Fissoa died with Alanna. There were plans to claim the Lighthouse and restore the Bedwyr family to its Duchal holdings, but that was before D'Hara returned to the area,.
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Sorry, we are busy rebelling. The rumors say a new one is coming soon, we have been having a stable government for too long.
"inactive" not stable.
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"inactive" not stable.
Yea, that's the issue. Our King seems to be MIA: doesn't answers letters or performs the Banker job it took, nor appoints a different Banker (or seeks one, for that matter).
I was kidding about there being too much stability, of course.
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Did I brag about the awesome extent of Aurvandil's roleplays? Nope.
Did anyone else lol at this?
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Did anyone else lol at this?
I loled of the entire thing, does that count? :P
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Did anyone else lol at this?
>:(
I rp'ed something at you in Candiels and none was returned. It might have been a bit humorous of an rp, but nonetheless I tried. And yes, I see many great RPs in Aurvandil, full with detail and excellent imagination. To be honest, there aren't many realms I see regular RP, a theme that BM just doesn't attract as much of anymore.
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>:(
I rp'ed something at you in Candiels and none was returned. It might have been a bit humorous of an rp, but nonetheless I tried. And yes, I see many great RPs in Aurvandil, full with detail and excellent imagination. To be honest, there aren't many realms I see regular RP, a theme that BM just doesn't attract as much of anymore.
If you refer to the narratives marked as RP, then yes they seem to be in decline. I would expect that many of the most prolific writers find it hard to get the time these days what with jobs, families and the like. Of course RP in general is much more then these narratives, it is how you play your characters, the language they use in messages to the realm and the like. At least in the realms I play in this has moved away from the old "modern" chat that we once had, inter spaced with RP marked message to an environment where each missive actually feels like it was considered from a characters point of view.
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Of course RP in general is much more then these narratives, it is how you play your characters, the language they use in messages to the realm and the like. At least in the realms I play in this has moved away from the old "modern" chat that we once had, inter spaced with RP marked message to an environment where each missive actually feels like it was considered from a characters point of view.
That kind of thing, I think, does much more for providing a good RP environment than anything else and is one of the more important things to me. I give it my best to always keep this kind of thing up. I fail from time to time due to being in a hurry, etc. but it definitely something that separates realms in my eyes.
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That kind of thing, I think, does much more for providing a good RP environment than anything else and is one of the more important things to me. I give it my best to always keep this kind of thing up. I fail from time to time due to being in a hurry, etc. but it definitely something that separates realms in my eyes.
Aye, when playing D&D RP was always more about our actions and interactions then making everyone read or listen to a narrative, though of course short narratives are rather vital in pen and paper games :) I've always tried to translate this to BM and mostly let the game mechanics handle the "narrative" part.
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Aye, when playing D&D RP was always more about our actions and interactions then making everyone read or listen to a narrative, though of course short narratives are rather vital in pen and paper games :) I've always tried to translate this to BM and mostly let the game mechanics handle the "narrative" part.
Indeed.
The other thing is that it impacts more people, especially the not-so-RP-inclined folks. Because the people who don't like to read long RP messages probably never will and just skip them. However, if you're always just keeping an "RP tone/attitude" in your regular letters, orders, etc then even those people will read and see them and perhaps it will encourage them to give it at least a little effort as well (using proper titles, etc.)
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Indeed.
The other thing is that it impacts more people, especially the not-so-RP-inclined folks. Because the people who don't like to read long RP messages probably never will and just skip them. However, if you're always just keeping an "RP tone/attitude" in your regular letters, orders, etc then even those people will read and see them and perhaps it will encourage them to give it at least a little effort as well (using proper titles, etc.)
It is probably wrong that I am having this discussion while writing letter from my "buffoon" character who is currently lamenting the death of his good captain from a poisoned compass which was provided to him as a devious plot from our enemies. Thankfully he was recently informed that midget tossing is still a reliable way to navigate.
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I think the name Civil war does not fit the war agaisnt Aurvendil (anymore).
There only 2 Madinans that joined Aurvendil, the rest where nobles from Luibero and the most of them came later on.
The conflict is going so deep that both parties accuse each other of not beeing nobles now, hence: The War of Nobility.
Aurvendil even announced to murder all Madinan nobles of all ranks or standards, even fresh immigrants when possible.
Things are getting intresting.
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Hell, are there any actual southerners down there period?
Seems like it's just a bunch of northern immigrants on both sides to me.
Liberos, Saxons, Caewynians... sheesh!
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A question: Who is currently winning?
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Hell, are there any actual southerners down there period?
Seems like it's just a bunch of northern immigrants on both sides to me.
Liberos, Saxons, Caewynians... sheesh!
Cearwyn IS a Madinan colony.
So yeah, Madina is all Madinan :P
Aurvendil is indeed with the exception of two, fully existing out of non southerners.
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A question: Who is currently winning?
We only know that when the war is over.
Both parties are doing very well, there forces keep increasing.
We DID loot Lusitania to the ground just a day ago thou :P
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Cearwyn IS a Madinan colony.
So yeah, Madina is all Madinan :P
Aurvendil is indeed with the exception of two, fully existing out of non southerners.
WAS a Madinan colony. At some stage you have to let go of the concept of a realm still being your colony. They grow up after all and such things get relegated to distant history as they forge out on their own.
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Ehhh.... Terran always viewed Caerwyn as a Madinan ally.
Though I suppose we never regarded ourselves as a Caerwynian colony.... but that's probably because they tried to destroy us....
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The Caerwyn emblem held the Madinean and Summerdalian emblems in it, the same way the Fissoan has the Madinean now.
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but that's probably because they tried to destroy us....
There were so many, many times I thought Terran was going to die. I'm still surprised you managed to survive. That was some good work.
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WAS a Madinan colony. At some stage you have to let go of the concept of a realm still being your colony. They grow up after all and such things get relegated to distant history as they forge out on their own.
Madina likes to remind itself that.
But truth is, the colony was formed from nobles from both Madina and Springdale (though mostly Madina), and the deed was done without the tiny least bit of involvement from the Madina government. In fact, when the colony started and Everguard threatened it, Madina completely disassociated itself from the new realm, saying they had nothing to do with it.
Madina was a launching pad, nothing more. The colony was done by nobles of Taselak (SEI), in order to get back together and kick Everguard (hated Torenites)'s asses.
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In fact, when the colony started and Everguard threatened it, Madina completely disassociated itself from the new realm, saying they had nothing to do with it.
Not true for all of us. Halicos likes to think of all nobles in Madinan colonies as Madinans, as long as they ask permission to leave first (yes, that's my get-out clause for Aurvandil and I'm sticking to it). He welcomed the Caerywnians back, and he'd welcome the Fissoans back. He wanted to help out, but... umm... my history is hazy on what happened :S
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Madina likes to remind itself that.
Madina was a launching pad, nothing more. The colony was done by nobles of Taselak (SEI), in order to get back together and kick Everguard (hated Torenites)'s asses.
True - and since Vallyn IS one of those Taselak nobles, one of the ones who stayed behind, he certainly holds strong ties to ensuring that Caerwynians are recognized as hailing from Madina, since Madina is the realm where all the Taselak nobles went to regroup after the SEI went under. He gladly welcomes back his old friends and brothers in arms - those ties go back well before Madina.
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Not true for all of us. Halicos likes to think of all nobles in Madinan colonies as Madinans, as long as they ask permission to leave first (yes, that's my get-out clause for Aurvandil and I'm sticking to it). He welcomed the Caerywnians back, and he'd welcome the Fissoans back. He wanted to help out, but... umm... my history is hazy on what happened :S
The "bond" is relatively recent. Caerwyn evolved during a long time without relations with Madina, I'd say it only really re-emerged and was forged right before the war against Astrum. Caerwyn had not asked permission to be formed, by the way.
True - and since Vallyn IS one of those Taselak nobles, one of the ones who stayed behind, he certainly holds strong ties to ensuring that Caerwynians are recognized as hailing from Madina, since Madina is the realm where all the Taselak nobles went to regroup after the SEI went under. He gladly welcomes back his old friends and brothers in arms - those ties go back well before Madina.
Not all Taselak nobles went to Madina, though indeed, most did. As I said, the few of us that went to Springdale instead ended up joining them in Golden Farrow anyways.
And obviously, that doesn't mean that ties between some nobles weren't maintained. Same happened with Caerwyn and D'Hara: I helped forge Caerwyn, so when I created a new character, I wanted to maintain a link, so I became an edler of VE and made it D'Hara's dominant religion. Madina/Caerwyn relations were similarly formed among other things thanks to Taselakians who had remained in Madina.
But at its origin, I don't think Madina was hostile, but it really was like "Eh, we didn't sanction this, we don't take any responsibility for what they do". I believe it's chronicled on the Dwilight Daily. Ties were forged later.
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But at its origin, I don't think Madina was hostile, but it really was like "Eh, we didn't sanction this, we don't take any responsibility for what they do". I believe it's chronicled on the Dwilight Daily. Ties were forged later.
I do remember wishing The HSG good luck and giving them well wishes. And Vallyn made a strong attempt as the Lord Admiral at the time to maintain positive relations with the Taselak nobles - whether the rest of the Grand Council did or not is up in the air.
I'm sure it wasn't all flowers and butterflies - but at the same time, Fissoa forming nearly wiped out Madina at the time since it left us so few nobles and military. So, I think it also depends on the point of view - I know I was less happy with Fissoa forming at the time, than I was when Caerwyn was formed. Vallyn only stayed in Madina because of his Lordships and Ranks - otherwise he probably would have joined Tsuboh and Daenah and the others in Caerwyn.
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Region Revolts (6 hours, 11 minutes ago)
The people of Lusitania have revolted and declared independence from Aurvandil!
Hey! We did something! Wooo!
Yea yea. . .lol. Outside of thumping each others fortifications that's about the best any ones done. . . though to be fair. Half our regions want to revolt without having any enemy forces in them. lol.
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Region Revolts (6 hours, 11 minutes ago)
The people of Lusitania have revolted and declared independence from Aurvandil!
Hey! We did something! Wooo!
Yea yea. . .lol. Outside of thumping each others fortifications that's about the best any ones done. . . though to be fair. Half our regions want to revolt without having any enemy forces in them. lol.
It does complicate the return of Evanburg to its rightful owners. As far as that concerns Madina, it means less of an income for a tax day, maybe two.
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Hey! We did something! Wooo!
I'm crossing my fingers for a perpetual never ending war that will only end in the destruction of both realms due to monsters. Then we can colonize it with Starworshipping faithful Astroists. :D
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It does complicate the return of Evanburg to its rightful owners. As far as that concerns Madina, it means less of an income for a tax day, maybe two.
Evansburg went BACK to it's rightful owners. . . should be interesting to see if Barca parts with it again.
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The Senate voted in favour of returning it for another year. That there was only a short time given for the vote to be made is something I find slightly iffy, but meh. With supporters like Julius, Vairaj, Marie Anne, Grigori and somewhat Laia (methinks retirement plan was her thought at the time), Aurvandil's likely going to hold onto the townsland until they're destroyed. 'Course, judging by how Madina went about that last little operation, that could be quite some time from now.
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'Course, judging by how Madina went about that last little operation, that could be quite some time from now.
I will admit that the battle reports us northerners got sure didn't look pretty. But you have to admit, the results were impressive: Madina raids Aurvandil, and two Aurvandil regions go rogue. If they can duplicate those results a time or two more, Aurvandil will be history. ;D
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I will admit that the battle reports us northerners got sure didn't look pretty. But you have to admit, the results were impressive: Madina raids Aurvandil, and two Aurvandil regions go rogue. If they can duplicate those results a time or two more, Aurvandil will be history. ;D
Then again, if they moved out some troops to Candiels Fields at the same time you do, I doubt much would remain to loot anything after two defeats in a row.
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Then again, if they moved out some troops to Candiels Fields at the same time you do, I doubt much would remain to loot anything after two defeats in a row.
But then the main army would have flattened Candiels. The reason we pulled back was because they didn't move to Candiels Fields. Either way was a loss for them, but this way they didn't lose their Capital.
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But then the main army would have flattened Candiels. The reason we pulled back was because they didn't move to Candiels Fields. Either way was a loss for them, but this way they didn't lose their Capital.
How big is the army in Fatmilak compared to the one in Candiels? 'Cause that's certainly not what the stat pages suggest.
Then again, I wasn't suggesting that they move their *whole* army to Candiels Field. Just enough to take on your remains. They might even have walls there to help them out, after all.
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How big is the army in Fatmilak compared to the one in Candiels? 'Cause that's certainly not what the stat pages suggest.
Are you counting Fissoa's army too? We managed to wrangle their aid in the last fight, but I think all of their nobles got the message to turn around so they didn't come up on the battle reports.
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Are you counting Fissoa's army too? We managed to wrangle their aid in the last fight, but I think all of their nobles got the message to turn around so they didn't come up on the battle reports.
Well that's going to cost you more than it gained you :)
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Well that's going to cost you more than it gained you :)
It'll gain us a city and a few other regions in the long run. Considering you won't want Madina city in return, I think whatever Vallyn promised you is a decent trade :P
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It'll gain us a city and a few other regions in the long run. Considering you won't want Madina city in return, I think whatever Vallyn promised you is a decent trade :P
If you win, that is :P And gain? Didn't you just lose Candiels? ::)
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If you win, that is :P And gain? Didn't you just lose Candiels? ::)
I don't think that's the question. I think the question is, if Madina gains Candiels, is that statement implying that New Caerwyn will be a vassal state of Madina? That there would be close ties is not the question, but for one of Madina's top dogs to say Madina would be gaining the city and lands of Candiels Duchy does put something of a different light on the whole conflict.
I'm just curious. At least, that's all it is right now. But if Madina happened to win and get Candiels, will it be a long-term gain of a city and regions for Madina, or will it be the creation of a steadfast neighbouring ally? Because, judging from what Nathan said, it'd be the former.
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Are you counting Fissoa's army too? We managed to wrangle their aid in the last fight, but I think all of their nobles got the message to turn around so they didn't come up on the battle reports.
Well, kinda. It seems as if Aurvandil's strength is equal to both of yours, when you look at the stat page. But then, Fissoa isn't always there, and even if they were, Aurvandil would need less troops to defend due to walls.
I didn't see any scout reports, though. I'd also assume, however, that Madina and Fissoa have some of that strength that is really militia in other regions, whereas Aurvandil's might can all be centered in Candiels if desired.
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whereas Aurvandil's might can is all.. centered in Candiels if desired.
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I fail to see the point of the correction. Aurvandil's army isn't all militia, it can just as much move a decent chunk to Candiels Fields if it desires. It isn't forced to permanently remain 100% of the time in the city.
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I fail to see the point of the correction. Aurvandil's army isn't all militia, it can just as much move a decent chunk to Candiels Fields if it desires. It isn't forced to permanently remain 100% of the time in the city.
Its not FORCED to, it simply always is.
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Its not FORCED to, it simply always is.
Madina and Aurvandil Mobile strengths are roughly equal when we're both fielding our armies at our limits. Which is to say ~20K
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Madina and Aurvandil Mobile strengths are roughly equal when we're both fielding our armies at our limits. Which is to say ~20K
Does that mean that Aurvandil has won? Unless they do something stupid - which they're not doing right now - they won't lose Candiels. All they have to do is wait and not attack. Eventually Madina will grow so bored with the whole non-event that they'll accept peace so they can fight a real war or do, well, anything other than sit in the Tower growing old. The only problem with that theory is that Aurvandil seem equally fond of attacking the Tower, which could result in a catastrophic turn of events should they take a major loss again.
Staring match.
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Does that mean that Aurvandil has won? Unless they do something stupid - which they're not doing right now - they won't lose Candiels. All they have to do is wait and not attack. Eventually Madina will grow so bored with the whole non-event that they'll accept peace so they can fight a real war or do, well, anything other than sit in the Tower growing old. The only problem with that theory is that Aurvandil seem equally fond of attacking the Tower, which could result in a catastrophic turn of events should they take a major loss again.
Staring match.
Ask yourself what Madina was doing before the war, then revisit whether the current situation is boring in comparison :)
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Eh, I'm just surprised at the whole thing. Madina should, theoretically, be able to maintain a suitably larger military than Aurvandil, but they're not. Is that related to pure military financing in Aurvandil or Madina not taking the conflict seriously enough? Dunno. One thing, I suppose, about this war is that it provides something to talk about :)
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Its not FORCED to, it simply always is.
Therefore, if Madina attacks Candiels, and say 3000 CS survives to loot Aurvandil's backdoor regions, then Aurvandil should be able to safely dispatch at least 3000 CS to Candiel Fields to massacre them twice in a row (thanks to the walls I assume they have there).
They have stayed there so far, doesn't mean they have to continue doing so if Madina keeps pulling off that stunt.
Btw, were you inspired by Fheuv'n's attack on Fwuvoghor to go loot the islands of Rio? :P
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Eh, I'm just surprised at the whole thing. Madina should, theoretically, be able to maintain a suitably larger military than Aurvandil, but they're not. Is that related to pure military financing in Aurvandil or Madina not taking the conflict seriously enough? Dunno. One thing, I suppose, about this war is that it provides something to talk about :)
You realise larger realms face higher recruitment cost right?
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Therefore, if Madina attacks Candiels, and say 3000 CS survives to loot Aurvandil's backdoor regions, then Aurvandil should be able to safely dispatch at least 3000 CS to Candiel Fields to massacre them twice in a row (thanks to the walls I assume they have there).
They have stayed there so far, doesn't mean they have to continue doing so if Madina keeps pulling off that stunt.
Btw, were you inspired by Fheuv'n's attack on Fwuvoghor to go loot the islands of Rio? :P
You would think - but last time they sent half their Mobile after us. And we managed to put about 7K back there which ould explain why they had to chase us around. . .
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Btw, were you inspired by Fheuv'n's attack on Fwuvoghor to go loot the islands of Rio? :P
You mean that one where we captured your entire military hierarchy and tortured several of them?
Yeah that was really successful.
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You mean that one where we captured your entire military hierarchy and tortured several of them?
Yeah that was really successful.
Never said it was.
Though, as much as you hate to hear it, bugs were the reason that run was so useless.
Torture only helped us gain foreign sympathy, so by all means, keep at it.
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Foreign sympathy?
Oh yeah. That's why all those judges privately contacted Cyrilos congratulating him on getting Handkor and a Chénier in the same run. Because they sympathized with Enweil so much.
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Foreign sympathy?
Oh yeah. That's why all those judges privately contacted Cyrilos congratulating him on getting Handkor and a Chénier in the same run. Because they sympathized with Enweil so much.
Then both of us are happy: feel free to continue doing so.
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I don't think Cyrilos ever thought of stopping, not even one second. :)
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I don't think Cyrilos ever thought of stopping, not even one second. :)
He might have, but probably only long enough to think up some new techniques.
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I think certain people are blurring the lines of IC and OOC, and starting to take things personally, even if they don't realize it. Please remember that no matter what happens, it is still just a game. So to argue about it is arguing about pixels on your computer screen. It isn't worth it. I've said my two cents and I'll go back to making toast.
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Haha, Gustav, Chénier and I are just both very combative people. I don't think either of us take this that seriously; we're just the arguing type.
only long enough to think up some new techniques.
How'd you figure out?
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You realise larger realms face higher recruitment cost right?
Yes. And as a smaller realm, Aurvandil can run a higher tax rate. Its the sick comparison between the tax rate I can run in Barca and the one I can run in Arcaea. I'm still surprised somewhat that Madina seem to struggle to meet the same strength that Aurvandil manages. Higher tax rates and lower recruitment costs shouldn't mean a realm over twice the size should struggle to beat their neighbour. Throw in walls and I'm not utterly surprised, but I still think it feels off.
I'm not suggesting Aurvandil is doing something it shouldn't. I'm more wondering at what Madina is doing wrong for this situation to stand. Is there something to explain this, or is it simply the combination of the factors we are already aware of? I'm curious, but mainly for the sake of curiosity itself.
Finn.
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Yes. And as a smaller realm, Aurvandil can run a higher tax rate. Its the sick comparison between the tax rate I can run in Barca and the one I can run in Arcaea. I'm still surprised somewhat that Madina seem to struggle to meet the same strength that Aurvandil manages. Higher tax rates and lower recruitment costs shouldn't mean a realm over twice the size should struggle to beat their neighbour. Throw in walls and I'm not utterly surprised, but I still think it feels off.
I'm not suggesting Aurvandil is doing something it shouldn't. I'm more wondering at what Madina is doing wrong for this situation to stand. Is there something to explain this, or is it simply the combination of the factors we are already aware of? I'm curious, but mainly for the sake of curiosity itself.
Finn.
At a guess I would say it is something similar to Arcaea and Arcachron. We have more nobles and more gold, they have an almost unitied realm were nearly every single piece of gold is well used by the armies, where Arcaea has a fair few gold sinks and nobles that are pretty inactive.
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United? I hate to say it, but they sound more like the Eire of old that they image themselves - to some extent - on. How'd that rebellion go, anyway? And yeah, Arcaea do have some less than totally motivated nobles but the public floggings in Remton, the lists, the fines, they'll have an effect right?
On topic though. I suppose that's probably what I was thinking, or the direction my thoughts were taking me. Can't say I give it all that much thought - other priorities - but I guess I am of the opinion that Madina could beat Aurvandil because as much as the latter have some benefits, I don't think that is sufficient to explain the fact that they are on a par, or even weighing in more heavily on Aurvandil's side. If it continues, I'd suspect the conquest of the Tower might open some eyes. But, by then, Madina can't hope for a complete victory. Their only choice by then is to try stave off too harsh a defeat. Aurvandil is not the most peaceful of realms and I can't be the only one to think that they have more than plenty of nobles to literally eat up Madina. I don't know if they will or if the Bay of Candiels will be renamed the Bay of Misfortune, but as someone who doesn't particularly like (or dislike) either side I have to say the odds look to be in Aurvandil's favour despite not having their regions of Evanburg and Lusitania right now.
I dunno. I'd nearly prefer a conclusion one way or another at this stage. Its something to talk about, but until its all settled the Lurians get away with their pesky revolts, revolutions and rebellions. And yeah, every time they still stick with monarchies. What's with that? Where's the republican influence?
Finn.
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United? I hate to say it, but they sound more like the Eire of old that they image themselves - to some extent - on. How'd that rebellion go, anyway? And yeah, Arcaea do have some less than totally motivated nobles but the public floggings in Remton, the lists, the fines, they'll have an effect right?
On topic though. I suppose that's probably what I was thinking, or the direction my thoughts were taking me. Can't say I give it all that much thought - other priorities - but I guess I am of the opinion that Madina could beat Aurvandil because as much as the latter have some benefits, I don't think that is sufficient to explain the fact that they are on a par, or even weighing in more heavily on Aurvandil's side. If it continues, I'd suspect the conquest of the Tower might open some eyes. But, by then, Madina can't hope for a complete victory. Their only choice by then is to try stave off too harsh a defeat. Aurvandil is not the most peaceful of realms and I can't be the only one to think that they have more than plenty of nobles to literally eat up Madina. I don't know if they will or if the Bay of Candiels will be renamed the Bay of Misfortune, but as someone who doesn't particularly like (or dislike) either side I have to say the odds look to be in Aurvandil's favour despite not having their regions of Evanburg and Lusitania right now.
I dunno. I'd nearly prefer a conclusion one way or another at this stage. Its something to talk about, but until its all settled the Lurians get away with their pesky revolts, revolutions and rebellions. And yeah, every time they still stick with monarchies. What's with that? Where's the republican influence?
Finn.
Luria in general is very anti-republic. That might change as nobles come and go, but right now the majority of players enjoy and want monarchies. Thus the rebellions are generally lead by other want to be monarchs.
With what is happening in Arcachon we might see whether my assumptions have been true. With the realm fractured and not able to concentrate entirely on the war we in Arcaea should be able to capitalise on the last successful landing. Wonder what the Arcachon motto is now that Arcaea managed to land an army on their island without allied help. Can't go crowing about nobody ever breaching their defenses.
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No one ever breached their defenses because, in the last two or three years, they've had a very powerful neighbour whom they had an alliance with. The problem for Arcachon is that they forgot that and needed a reminder. Sadly for them, the reminder is likely to be fatal. Happens.
Same story isn't likely true for Madina and Aurvandil. Course, Aurvandil's a monarchy surrounded by republics. Who's to say there won't be a rebellion there too? Could be something in the air :o
Finn.
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On topic though. I suppose that's probably what I was thinking, or the direction my thoughts were taking me. Can't say I give it all that much thought - other priorities - but I guess I am of the opinion that Madina could beat Aurvandil because as much as the latter have some benefits, I don't think that is sufficient to explain the fact that they are on a par, or even weighing in more heavily on Aurvandil's side. If it continues, I'd suspect the conquest of the Tower might open some eyes. But, by then, Madina can't hope for a complete victory. Their only choice by then is to try stave off too harsh a defeat. Aurvandil is not the most peaceful of realms and I can't be the only one to think that they have more than plenty of nobles to literally eat up Madina. I don't know if they will or if the Bay of Candiels will be renamed the Bay of Misfortune, but as someone who doesn't particularly like (or dislike) either side I have to say the odds look to be in Aurvandil's favour despite not having their regions of Evanburg and Lusitania right now.
I dunno. I'd nearly prefer a conclusion one way or another at this stage. Its something to talk about, but until its all settled the Lurians get away with their pesky revolts, revolutions and rebellions. And yeah, every time they still stick with monarchies. What's with that? Where's the republican influence?
Finn.
Madinians are too greedy and egoistical, that's why they haven't won yet.
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Madinians are too greedy and egoistical, that's why they haven't won yet.
They lack cohesion and leadership, or so does it seem. And I'm pretty sure Aurvandil gets supplies/aid from the Moot, whereas Madina only gets a few thousand CS from Fissoa.
Don't tell wether Aurvandil gets aid, though. I consider that IC information, and I'd rather not know OOC :)
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The Moot is not funding either side preferentially. Well, okay, Barca is handing over a rich townsland again for no meaningful gain, but Madina's fine with that. They damn near approve. And sure, D'Hara is buying every spare bushel from Aurvandil and is extremely hesitant to pay Madina its higher price, but that's as much on Madina as it is on D'Hara, and if Madina isn't selling its food now, they might be forced to reconsider their price if they want to match Aurvandil on the field, or sea.
To state that the 'Moot favours one side or the other would be inane though. The Moot favours no one because they're the EU, not the US. Foreign policy can be determined as a group, but the only real agreement that's been reached in the Moot on this subject is to stay out of it. Not surprising when there are Duke's from D'Hara that favour Aurvandil, Duke's from Barca that favour Madina (if they're forced to favour either), other leaders in Barca that favour Aurvandil, and sensible leadership from Terran who want us to stay out of it as much as possible. Putting it this way, my character is likely the richest in Barca but the last place he'd send any gold is to Aurvandil. Chenier is likely the richest noble in D'Hara (or at least the most influential) but he's one of the biggest warmongers with a realm that was previously their largest supplier. Personally, I expect a bit of starvation in D'Hara will tame any thoughts of war that might be afoot and neutrality will rule. If they want to eat, at least.
I bring this up because, lets face it, as much as Hireshmont is the defacto leader of the Moot, he's really just the public face (obviously with a weighty voice) and the policies are determined by the individual realms. The individual realms won't act without the Federation, so little action of consequence takes place. Could there be funds being funnelled to Aurvandil by the Moot? Certainly. But I've not heard as much as a whisper about it and so if it is happening, its not from the Moot but from D'Hara. And frankly, I doubt it even then. Their "lets help Aurvandil" attitude seems recent enough to me. That doesn't mean they won't or haven't started in the last week or two. After all, fund Aurvandil to expand throughout Madina and your cheap food supplier has more food to supply your growing cities. D'Harans, that is a hint.
Finn.
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Don't tell wether Aurvandil gets aid, though. I consider that IC information, and I'd rather not know OOC :)
I've often wondered where this perception comes from. Hireshmont does personally fund quite a few things in quite a few nations, but the idea that he would be personally financing Aurvandil or Madina is laughable to anyone in the Moot... and the number of people willing and able to put the effort into foreign aid of any meaningful scale is... very few. Labell might, but doesn't care enough about the south. Fyodor and O'domus... no way. The D'Haran dukes might be willing, but their gold all goes to buying food. And I find the idea of Farsil funding foreigners equally amusing.
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I've often wondered where this perception comes from. Hireshmont does personally fund quite a few things in quite a few nations, but the idea that he would be personally financing Aurvandil or Madina is laughable to anyone in the Moot... and the number of people willing and able to put the effort into foreign aid of any meaningful scale is... very few. Labell might, but doesn't care enough about the south. Fyodor and O'domus... no way. The D'Haran dukes might be willing, but their gold all goes to buying food. And I find the idea of Farsil funding foreigners equally amusing.
Farsil has plenty of stuff in Barca to fund. Let Candiels fund Aurvandil and Madina fund, well, Madina.
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Don't count out D'Harans Townsland Lords though. They are quite wealthy too, but I doubt they would fund anyone.
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The Moot is not funding either side preferentially. Well, okay, Barca is handing over a rich townsland again for no meaningful gain, but Madina's fine with that. They damn near approve. And sure, D'Hara is buying every spare bushel from Aurvandil and is extremely hesitant to pay Madina its higher price, but that's as much on Madina as it is on D'Hara, and if Madina isn't selling its food now, they might be forced to reconsider their price if they want to match Aurvandil on the field, or sea.
To state that the 'Moot favours one side or the other would be inane though. The Moot favours no one because they're the EU, not the US. Foreign policy can be determined as a group, but the only real agreement that's been reached in the Moot on this subject is to stay out of it. Not surprising when there are Duke's from D'Hara that favour Aurvandil, Duke's from Barca that favour Madina (if they're forced to favour either), other leaders in Barca that favour Aurvandil, and sensible leadership from Terran who want us to stay out of it as much as possible. Putting it this way, my character is likely the richest in Barca but the last place he'd send any gold is to Aurvandil. Chenier is likely the richest noble in D'Hara (or at least the most influential) but he's one of the biggest warmongers with a realm that was previously their largest supplier. Personally, I expect a bit of starvation in D'Hara will tame any thoughts of war that might be afoot and neutrality will rule. If they want to eat, at least.
I bring this up because, lets face it, as much as Hireshmont is the defacto leader of the Moot, he's really just the public face (obviously with a weighty voice) and the policies are determined by the individual realms. The individual realms won't act without the Federation, so little action of consequence takes place. Could there be funds being funnelled to Aurvandil by the Moot? Certainly. But I've not heard as much as a whisper about it and so if it is happening, its not from the Moot but from D'Hara. And frankly, I doubt it even then. Their "lets help Aurvandil" attitude seems recent enough to me. That doesn't mean they won't or haven't started in the last week or two. After all, fund Aurvandil to expand throughout Madina and your cheap food supplier has more food to supply your growing cities. D'Harans, that is a hint.
Finn.
If Madina wants to export more, then they need to lower their prices or we'll buy from Aurvandil. If they keep looting Aurvandil food, though, that'll seriously piss us off.
Is Machiavel the richest? I don't know, I haven't compared my income lately. I *used* to be, but things changed over the last few months.
He's not a warmonger, though. He's preached on-intervention more often than intervention. He is, however, a bit emotional and volatile when his food sources are threatened, however. After all, both sides have points weighting in their favor and against them.
Though this is starting to leak what should be purely IG knowledge onto public OOC mediums, I'll say I don't know of any funding of anyone for any party, other than Barca's region loan. You might be misunderstanding some of the letters sent if you think D'Hara said it was doing so in the moot.
Don't count out D'Harans Townsland Lords though. They are quite wealthy too, but I doubt they would fund anyone.
Funny thing is, most of my multi-thousand gold positive balance for VE was from when I was marquis of Paisland, and that is *before* Paisly started paying for food.
Wealth is all about what you do with it. If you lead a unit, then that's a huge money pit right there, something I never had to deal with (since long long long ago) on Dwi as a priest.
But I too doubt they would fund anyone.
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Don't count out D'Harans Townsland Lords though. They are quite wealthy too, but I doubt they would fund anyone.
True, had not thought of that. And I suppose Terran's townsland lords are fairly well off to. But two of'em field units, and all of Metis' gold is poured into Triunism.
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Don't count out D'Harans Townsland Lords though. They are quite wealthy too, but I doubt they would fund anyone.
Paranoid much? ;D
As a D'Haran townsland lord AND trader, I'll let you know that my food goes to buying food--and repaying the family for the double-investment I made in Paisly and Port Raviel after the capital move.
The reason I hate to buy from Madina is that prior to this war, they refused to sell to me--and when a region lord had food for sale at 50 or 60 gold per bushel, they complained that I purchased it! Gornak has a long, long memory, and he has no reason to believe that if Madina returns to a non-emergency state, that the region lords wouldn't shut down on food exports under the regular constitutional rules.
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Paranoid much? ;D
As a D'Haran townsland lord AND trader, I'll let you know that my food goes to buying food--and repaying the family for the double-investment I made in Paisly and Port Raviel after the capital move.
The reason I hate to buy from Madina is that prior to this war, they refused to sell to me--and when a region lord had food for sale at 50 or 60 gold per bushel, they complained that I purchased it! Gornak has a long, long memory, and he has no reason to believe that if Madina returns to a non-emergency state, that the region lords wouldn't shut down on food exports under the regular constitutional rules.
Indeed, Madina has a history of being a bad and unfriendly trading partner.
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I've often wondered where this perception comes from.
If I had to guess I'd say it's a mix of things. The OOC impression given by various Veinsormoot members on the forums is that they prefer Aurvandil over Madina, and would be happy if Aruvandil took out Madina. Then there's the "WTF? How are they supporting 28KCS on their crappy income? Someone must be giving them lots of gold!" factor.... If not the Veinsormoot members, then who?
Oh, and also: Buying food constitutes support. And we know that at least D'Hara buys food from Aurvandil. Hence: The Veinsormoot supports Aurvandil. At least that's what it looks like over on this side of the monitor. :)
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If I had to guess I'd say it's a mix of things. The OOC impression given by various Veinsormoot members on the forums is that they prefer Aurvandil over Madina, and would be happy if Aruvandil took out Madina. Then there's the "WTF? How are they supporting 28KCS on their crappy income? Someone must be giving them lots of gold!" factor.... If not the Veinsormoot members, then who?
Oh, and also: Buying food constitutes support. And we know that at least D'Hara buys food from Aurvandil. Hence: The Veinsormoot supports Aurvandil. At least that's what it looks like over on this side of the monitor. :)
We also trade with Madina.
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We also trade with Madina.
You do? You make it sound like you'd rather eat your own arm.
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Madina and D'Hara always have some difficulties communicating which causes some frustrations now and then, but overall we're doing continued trading with Madina as well. And some D'Harans do support Madina more then Aurvandil.
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You do? You make it sound like you'd rather eat your own arm.
Well...sometimes the peasants are actually hungry enough to eat OUR arms, so we buy food from Madina.
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You do? You make it sound like you'd rather eat your own arm.
The markets aren't very generous lately...
But in all seriousness, we bought thousands of bushels from them last season, our warehouses overflowed. More than we ever bought from Aurvandil, as far as I know.
And we had been importing from them since a very long time, since long before the duke of Madina decided to centralize all their food and grab all the profits for redistributing the food from regions my caravans used to buy directly off of at a lower price.
Trading with Aurvandil is a relatively recent thing, as they had food issues at the start. We have traded with Madina since a very long time, but they were always the highest sellers, which used to be less of a big deal in the days where I would import hundreds of bushels at 20 gold per 100 from Caerwyn.
Madina and D'Hara always have some difficulties communicating which causes some frustrations now and then, but overall we're doing continued trading with Madina as well. And some D'Harans do support Madina more then Aurvandil.
No realm in the 'moot is strongly in favor of one side over the other. They all have mixed feelings.
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If Madina would change their constitution to require that all food in excess of what Madina requires, be offered to D'Hara at no more than 50 gold, then I would probably support them over Auvrandil.
Otherwise, Madinan dominance seems risky.
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If Madina would change their constitution to require that all food in excess of what Madina requires, be offered to D'Hara at no more than 50 gold, then I would probably support them over Auvrandil.
Otherwise, Madinan dominance seems risky.
If it came to a bidding war, considering how bloated the Madinian lords' sense of self-entitlement is, I'm fairly convinced that Aurvandil would be willing to offer much better than what Madina ever would.
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If it came to a bidding war, considering how bloated the Madinian lords' sense of self-entitlement is, I'm fairly convinced that Aurvandil would be willing to offer much better than what Madina ever would.
Until they decide to strike.... MWAHAHAHAHA!
Seriously, you should be loving this war and hope it goes on forever. If one side or the other wins out, you'll have an awful lot of eggs in one basket as far as trading partners go. The victor would have serious leverage to either raise prices or simply cut off food exports and watch you starve if you displease them. At least, that is the impression you've given me. Maybe Aurvandil and Madina are less important as trading partners then I've been led to believe by reading this thread, but it sure sounds like you wouldn't be able to make do without their food.
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Until they decide to strike.... MWAHAHAHAHA!
Seriously, you should be loving this war and hope it goes on forever. If one side or the other wins out, you'll have an awful lot of eggs in one basket as far as trading partners go. The victor would have serious leverage to either raise prices or simply cut off food exports and watch you starve if you displease them. At least, that is the impression you've given me. Maybe Aurvandil and Madina are less important as trading partners then I've been led to believe by reading this thread, but it sure sounds like you wouldn't be able to make do without their food.
The loss of Caerwyn really hurt D'Hara, as I'd say Caerwyn and Fissoa were our main two sources of food and they had cheap (Caerwyn) and respectable (Fissoa) prices. Caerwyn is gone, now, however, and Fissoa seems to have less for sell than it used to.
Madina sold a lot last season, but they otherwise were not a major source of food, we always bought as much as possible elsewhere first and then bought the little extra needed from them.
Really, I predict that Barca alone will probably be able to feed D'Hara. Now, with the new estates, they are growing much more rapidly. All D'Hara needs is to make sure that Barca grows fast enough, then it won't really matter what goes on down south.
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No realm in the 'moot is strongly in favor of one side over the other. They all have mixed feelings.
Very passionately mixed feelings. We yell at each other all the time about obscure treaty points an nuances of neutrality, and make veiled accusations against each others' commitment to the Moot. Then we donate gold to each other and clear each others' monsters out. It's like a family.
Seriously, you should be loving this war and hope it goes on forever. If one side or the other wins out, you'll have an awful lot of eggs in one basket as far as trading partners go. The victor would have serious leverage to either raise prices or simply cut off food exports and watch you starve if you displease them. At least, that is the impression you've given me. Maybe Aurvandil and Madina are less important as trading partners then I've been led to believe by reading this thread, but it sure sounds like you wouldn't be able to make do without their food.
Great minds think alike. Except you're wrong about how necessary they are. They are necessary only until new supplies are found. Those in Astroist realms may remember a certain dispute over the region of Demyansk. What does the region of Demyansk provide? Food. Lavendrow and Faithhill do too... but not as much. Students of the Moot's foreign affairs should also note the rapid expansion of Barca, and the growing rural population there.
All D'Hara has to do is secure food supplies until Barcan and Terran production is stabilized. At that point, the Moot should only need occasional exports, and, needing less food overall, should be able to find good prices.
Really, I predict that Barca alone will probably be able to feed D'Hara. Now, with the new estates, they are growing much more rapidly. All D'Hara needs is to make sure that Barca grows fast enough, then it won't really matter what goes on down south.
Ditto. Even once Twainville and Rettleville grow, they're small cities, and Barca has TONS of rurals and woodlands that should all be running food surpluses once productivity is up.
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Ditto. Even once Twainville and Rettleville grow, they're small cities, and Barca has TONS of rurals and woodlands that should all be running food surpluses once productivity is up.
Barca is gonna bleed when the Zuma get world domination in their thick skulls
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Barca is gonna bleed when the Zuma get world domination in their thick skulls
It has been said several times by the devs that the Zuma aren't on the continent to work like invaders, chances of them suddenly deciding on World Domination is low. Of course it has been fairly easy to accidentally annoy them in the past.
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What does the region of Demyansk provide? Food. Lavendrow and Faithhill do too... but not as much. Students of the Moot's foreign affairs should also note the rapid expansion of Barca, and the growing rural population there.
That region was actually my number 1 exporter of food at 20 gold per 100 bushels. I never even bothered to check who the lord was, but damn did I ever love him. :P
Barca is gonna bleed when the Zuma get world domination in their thick skulls
How do the Zuma work? They are daimon overlords watching over lower human tribes. Odds are, if they wanted world domination, they'd attempt similar vassalage. And we'd probably be the first to offer them freedom of passage along with a map to the daimon-hating Lurias. 8)
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And we'd probably be the first to offer them freedom of passage along with a map to the daimon-hating Lurias. 8)
Nope.
Terran would beat you to it.
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Nope.
Terran would beat you to it.
"We", the moot. ;)
Of course, we've never actually discussed such things, but considering the blatant imperialism of every other power bloc on the continent, I think that's a path we would all quickly agree to take.
The world *really* should be nicer to the Zuma's neighbors. 8)
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Of course, we've never actually discussed such things, but considering the blatant imperialism of every other power bloc on the continent, I think that's a path we would all quickly agree to take.
Huh? ???
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Huh? ???
Huh what? Don't try to deny it!
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Huh what? Don't try to deny it!
Before or after Alanna? TMP has a hard case to make for fighting wars, since the damage to civilisation arising from the war would have to be outweighed by the damage to civilisation from whatever short coming it is the "enemy" has. Thus any imperial plans would by necessity be peaceful, unless we all turn politician and spin everything to be a great crime against civilisation.
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Before or after Alanna? TMP has a hard case to make for fighting wars, since the damage to civilisation arising from the war would have to be outweighed by the damage to civilisation from whatever short coming it is the "enemy" has. Thus any imperial plans would by necessity be peaceful, unless we all turn politician and spin everything to be a great crime against civilisation.
Pfff. Damages from wars are relative, since they aren't permanent. Wouldn't be so hard to stuff down people's throat that it would be "better for civilization" on the long run. Plus that faith doesn't have everyone follow it either.
I'll believe it the day they come to D'Hara and Fissoa with a non-aggression pact proposal.
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Pfff. Damages from wars are relative, since they aren't permanent. Wouldn't be so hard to stuff down people's throat that it would be "better for civilization" on the long run. Plus that faith doesn't have everyone follow it either.
I'll believe it the day they come to D'Hara and Fissoa with a non-aggression pact proposal.
True, but the King of one Lurian realm is the prophet of the religion, thus you are left only facing a single realm, hardly able to force imperialism down anyone's throat. Besides the Dominant religion from LN is trying to expand into Fissoa, so they are hardly going to take kindly to a war against them.
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True, but the King of one Lurian realm is the prophet of the religion, thus you are left only facing a single realm, hardly able to force imperialism down anyone's throat. Besides the Dominant religion from LN is trying to expand into Fissoa, so they are hardly going to take kindly to a war against them.
Doesn't change the first point. "Damage to civilization" is easy to game. Only a fool would trust a foreigner that claims himself to be a "protector of civilization".
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Doesn't change the first point. "Damage to civilization" is easy to game. Only a fool would trust a foreigner that claims himself to be a "protector of civilization".
That should read, "Only a fool would trust a foreigner that claims himself to be a protector of civilization without decent proof"
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That should read, "Only a fool would trust a foreigner that claims himself to be a protector of civilization without decent proof"
Nah, I deem it as inevitable that "civilization" in the sense of mankind eventually fade away to a more nationalistic take of "civilization" as the concept is recycled by local elites to push their own agendas.
It's but a matter of time before other civilizations are "not civilized enough", and that they require "tutorage" of some kind.
Nothing can prove such a thing will never happen, so I stand by my original statement.
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Nah, I deem it as inevitable that "civilization" in the sense of mankind eventually fade away to a more nationalistic take of "civilization" as the concept is recycled by local elites to push their own agendas.
It's but a matter of time before other civilizations are "not civilized enough", and that they require "tutorage" of some kind.
Nothing can prove such a thing will never happen, so I stand by my original statement.
Which is possibly why The Manifest Path spends the time it does trying to spread the faith and bring nobles from other realms into the leadership positions. Would be much harder for any one realm to push their agenda once the faith has prominent members from many realms.
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Which is possibly why The Manifest Path spends the time it does trying to spread the faith and bring nobles from other realms into the leadership positions. Would be much harder for any one realm to push their agenda once the faith has prominent members from many realms.
Much to my annoyance as the Lurian nationalistic fanatic!
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Which is possibly why The Manifest Path spends the time it does trying to spread the faith and bring nobles from other realms into the leadership positions. Would be much harder for any one realm to push their agenda once the faith has prominent members from many realms.
Yea, well, if it didn't sound and look like just a tool for Lurian cultural imperialism, maybe that'd work better.
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Yea, well, if it didn't sound and look like just a tool for Lurian cultural imperialism, maybe that'd work better.
The process is going fine actually, but thanks for being concerned.
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The process is going fine actually, but thanks for being concerned.
I'm sure it is. :P
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Pfff. Damages from wars are relative, since they aren't permanent. Wouldn't be so hard to stuff down people's throat that it would be "better for civilization" on the long run. Plus that faith doesn't have everyone follow it either.
Not easy, but not impossible. And it has the Rulers, all the (city) dukes, most of the region lords, and the majority of the population in Luria.
I'll believe it the day they come to D'Hara and Fissoa with a non-aggression pact proposal.
You mean like the current discussions on an alliance/federation with Fissoa? D'hara is another matter entirely, of course, for both personal and religious reasons. People who routinely starve their cities into revolt are easy to justify as uncivilized.
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You mean like the current discussions on an alliance/federation with Fissoa? D'hara is another matter entirely, of course, for both personal and religious reasons. People who routinely starve their cities into revolt are easy to justify as uncivilized.
I don't know if you were trying to be ironic, but you just proved Chenier's point perfectly.
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I don't know if you were trying to be ironic, but you just proved Chenier's point perfectly.
Precisely.
The irony comes from the fact that Luria starved their own cities intentionally, and that Giask did revolt to us a few times as well.
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Anyways, back to the subject of this topic... nothing has happened on the southern front. ::) 8)
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I don't know if you were trying to be ironic, but you just proved Chenier's point perfectly.
Please don't confuse me with De-Legro. I have never claimed that the Manifest Path won't be used to justify wars on the basis of better caretakers of civilization. That's official policy, as anyone can see on the wiki.
The irony comes from the fact that Luria starved their own cities intentionally, and that Giask did revolt to us a few times as well.
Two points:
1. Starving a city in a realm at war with yours is not the same as your own cities starving when you have no hordes to speak of attacking you and no wars ongoing.
2. Koli founding the Manifest Path was a direct reaction to the things he ordered in the Giaskan Civil War. He's quite open about his penitent status, and thinks the starving of Giask in that war was the most heinous crime he ever committed in a war filled with horrors.
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I think the Véinsørmoot should charge King Koli with war crimes in a couple of game years. Call up a few of the Barcans who were there as witnesses, invite Koli (alone) to Paisley if he wishes to defend himself and so forth. The less than bright characters can talk of eradicating the Zuma - hah! - but I figure this would be far more entertaining.
I'd give SA a bigger chance of spreading to the southwest than TMP spreading anywhere beyond the southeast. As Matt's stated above, TMP's little more than a justification for imperial expansion. Still, lets face it, its a new religion that could have quite a different "message" by the time its in any position to spread beyond the Lurian realms. I may have some prejudice as to the reason for its existance, but my character's never so much as heard of the religion. The only southeasterners who've went west, departed before the religion was even founded. More is known of CB and SA than TMP (not saying much), but that itself could work to the religion's benefit as there's no stigma attached to the latter. Blatant expansionism might be the call of the day, but that doesn't mean that has to be the story IC, at least for the time being. "We're peace loving hippies" could just as easily be believable in the beginning and provide the religion with a foothold before any Lurian Invasion.
Yip. Nothing has happened on the southern front. Isn't that the story of the war from the start? Sure, there's been a few tragic attempts at attacking from one side or the other, but they've been forgettable. Mainly because who wants to remember such disasters as the last attack on the Tower or Madina's top-notch strategy? Get back to me when you've done something, Harte! Which is harsh, I'll admit, and said (or typed) without the intention to insult. More a "get a move on" message. Suits your neighbours that you don't since we've picked up some of your bored nobles already and will possibly pick up a few more as things drag on, but that's an IC perspective. OOCly, it has to be boring as hell sitting in two cities (or a city and a stronghold) with little enough to do.
How do you keep yourself logging in?
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I think the Véinsørmoot should charge King Koli with war crimes in a couple of game years. Call up a few of the Barcans who were there as witnesses, invite Koli (alone) to Paisley if he wishes to defend himself and so forth. The less than bright characters can talk of eradicating the Zuma - hah! - but I figure this would be far more entertaining.
Koli would refuse, as the Veinsormoot has no authority over him. Establishing guilt is pointless as he freely admits it.
I'd give SA a bigger chance of spreading to the southwest than TMP spreading anywhere beyond the southeast. As Matt's stated above, TMP's little more than a justification for imperial expansion.
I've never stated that in any way, shape, or form. I said tMP can be used to justify wars to increase overall civilization. Just like every other religion can. That doesn't mean the religion is solely about imperial expansion.
Koli doesn't care in the slightest about spreading Lurian political control anywhere. He's not even terribly happy about being King of Pian en Luries in the first place. He wants to destroy D'hara because they (in his mind) took his father away from him and thus is responsible for a great deal of the difficulties he had in his early life.
Still, lets face it, its a new religion that could have quite a different "message" by the time its in any position to spread beyond the Lurian realms. I may have some prejudice as to the reason for its existance, but my character's never so much as heard of the religion. The only southeasterners who've went west, departed before the religion was even founded. More is known of CB and SA than TMP (not saying much), but that itself could work to the religion's benefit as there's no stigma attached to the latter. Blatant expansionism might be the call of the day, but that doesn't mean that has to be the story IC, at least for the time being. "We're peace loving hippies" could just as easily be believable in the beginning and provide the religion with a foothold before any Lurian Invasion.
Again, tMP has no interest in expansionism. I haven't decided whether to make this official or leave it as unofficial, but it favours smaller realms where possible.
tMP is not about peace loving hippies, either. It just wants to reorient the fighting toward a more useful front.
I don't mind IC disinformation in the least, but I would prefer if people did not OOC say I've said things that I haven't or make statements that are really not even close to true about my ventures.
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I think the Véinsørmoot should charge King Koli with war crimes in a couple of game years. Call up a few of the Barcans who were there as witnesses, invite Koli (alone) to Paisley if he wishes to defend himself and so forth. The less than bright characters can talk of eradicating the Zuma - hah! - but I figure this would be far more entertaining.
I'd give SA a bigger chance of spreading to the southwest than TMP spreading anywhere beyond the southeast. As Matt's stated above, TMP's little more than a justification for imperial expansion. Still, lets face it, its a new religion that could have quite a different "message" by the time its in any position to spread beyond the Lurian realms. I may have some prejudice as to the reason for its existance, but my character's never so much as heard of the religion. The only southeasterners who've went west, departed before the religion was even founded. More is known of CB and SA than TMP (not saying much), but that itself could work to the religion's benefit as there's no stigma attached to the latter. Blatant expansionism might be the call of the day, but that doesn't mean that has to be the story IC, at least for the time being. "We're peace loving hippies" could just as easily be believable in the beginning and provide the religion with a foothold before any Lurian Invasion.
Comprehension fail for the win. Its generally best not to try and shoe horn innocent statements that something COULD be used on a certain way as proof that it WILL be.
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Please don't confuse me with De-Legro. I have never claimed that the Manifest Path won't be used to justify wars on the basis of better caretakers of civilization. That's official policy, as anyone can see on the wiki.
Perish the thought! However, I think it would be fair to observe that the two of you are usually marching in lockstep when it comes to tMP. It's unusual to see one of you undercut the other's arguments on that subject.
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Yip. Nothing has happened on the southern front. Isn't that the story of the war from the start? Sure, there's been a few tragic attempts at attacking from one side or the other, but they've been forgettable. Mainly because who wants to remember such disasters as the last attack on the Tower or Madina's top-notch strategy? Get back to me when you've done something, Harte! Which is harsh, I'll admit, and said (or typed) without the intention to insult. More a "get a move on" message. Suits your neighbours that you don't since we've picked up some of your bored nobles already and will possibly pick up a few more as things drag on, but that's an IC perspective. OOCly, it has to be boring as hell sitting in two cities (or a city and a stronghold) with little enough to do.
How do you keep yourself logging in?
As Royal Purser of Aurvandil, I do have to keep up with the food we have and establish trade agreements with other realms, but that takes little time. Eventually we will probably be the aggressors against Madina since we have a large military difference right now. But when that time is, I have no idea.. I mostly log on for Callandor II in Ohnar West or Katrina in Fronen.
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Perish the thought! However, I think it would be fair to observe that the two of you are usually marching in lockstep when it comes to tMP. It's unusual to see one of you undercut the other's arguments on that subject.
(shrugs) De-Legro's position is more indicative of what tMP's "should" be were Koli to fully live up to its ideals, and generally speaks with regards to what I personally consider the "propaganda" face of the religion. And...
As Koli's a young, often bitter, frequently uncertain man who never wanted responsibility like this, is haunted by the horrors he has committed, desperate for atonement, terrified by what he sees as the beginning of Ragnorak, frustrated at the endless civil strife in Luria, burning for revenge, hopeful for the future he thinks he can bring, arrogant, cripplingly worried that he's the wrong man for all this, proud of his accomplishments, worried that its a house of cards, scared spitless by the power of what he's trying to confront, determined that it must be, trying to convince himself that it can be, and balancing all his often conflicting responsibilities...Consistency is not a virtue he possesses in any great degree.
So, Koli preaches that war between humans should only be a last resort...Then slips in a clause into the writings to allow him to justify conquering D'hara. Then he tries to convince himself that uniting the island against the Abominations would be easier with the Veinsormoot on his side...But then Port Nebel revolts and his uncle is lynched and he loses control of his rage. Then he takes back control, and spends his time trying to build up Luria...Then people there try to start another civil war and he tears at his hair and dreams of leaving it all behind and building the realm he always wanted on the Isles. But then he sees a way to turn the almost-civil-war to a way to cement the power of the Manifest Path further...
You get the idea. Like every good Prophet, you can probably cite speeches from Koli to support several sides of most arguments and be quite correct.
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But then Port Nebel revolts and his uncle is lynched and he loses control of his rage.
This perplexes me. When did this happen? Did some D'Haran send an RP of Uncle Bedwyr starving to death? I've seen you reference it quite a few times, but have never been clear, even OOCly, what the story is.
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This perplexes me. When did this happen? Did some D'Haran send an RP of Uncle Bedwyr starving to death? I've seen you reference it quite a few times, but have never been clear, even OOCly, what the story is.
Koli's mother was a minor noble from D'hara, and I've mentioned at various times that Koli's mother's family has a number of positions in D'hara as local officials. When Port Nebel revolted, I rolled a few dice to determine what outcome that might have for that family. I figure the extended family has officials across the island, and in these revolts a good percentage (though not all) of the officials get lynched before they can flee.
Most of that family, Koli would have not cared in the slightest about. They did not precisely make his life easy, as while his mother swears up and down that before he left Colin Bedwyr totally married her in a private ceremony, and Colin was a private enough man that this is indeed possible, though unlikely, most of the family...Did not really believe it, and consequently she and Koli were barely tolerated, sometimes, by some of them, until of course he managed to make good in PeL. Once that happened, he resettled some of the family he cared about in Askileon and other parts of Luria (and sent a few to Atamara or the Far East as they hated Dwilight), but some had found good positions and decided to stay in D'hara. One of them was an uncle who Koli was quite fond of, and was lynched.
Or, in other words, the dice indicated that one of the few family members Koli cared about was in Port Nebel, and then further indicated that he did not flee in time.
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Yeah. My post wasn't meant to be taken as fact or gospel, merely speculation at how it could be played or intrepreted. Frankly, its your call. Win or lose. Duh.
I've had nobles in similar situations Harte, most recently with my Knight in Wayburg (Atamara) who I eventually paused as sitting in the city day in and day out waiting for Suville aggression got tedious to the point where I reactivated my adventurer. 'Course, things kicked off for Wayburg not too long ago, but I never unpaused. My concern (well, that's overstating it somewhat) is that with the stalemate that's currently there, there's little reason to keep coming on, especially for those not Lords or Bankers or the likes. Becoming the aggressor is a solution to that, but becoming the aggressor for that reason alone probably isn't altogether wise. Other options exist. RP, duels, new guilds or other means of building up Aurvandil's (or Madina's) society is another solution and one I'd hope is being availed of. No one likes being a Knight who logs on to pay their men, maybe train them, then check their other characters or simply log back off. Retention is talked about now and then. Times like these have to have an effect on that.
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Koli's mother was a minor noble from D'hara, and I've mentioned at various times that Koli's mother's family has a number of positions in D'hara as local officials. When Port Nebel revolted, I rolled a few dice to determine what outcome that might have for that family. I figure the extended family has officials across the island, and in these revolts a good percentage (though not all) of the officials get lynched before they can flee.
Most of that family, Koli would have not cared in the slightest about. They did not precisely make his life easy, as while his mother swears up and down that before he left Colin Bedwyr totally married her in a private ceremony, and Colin was a private enough man that this is indeed possible, though unlikely, most of the family...Did not really believe it, and consequently she and Koli were barely tolerated, sometimes, by some of them, until of course he managed to make good in PeL. Once that happened, he resettled some of the family he cared about in Askileon and other parts of Luria (and sent a few to Atamara or the Far East as they hated Dwilight), but some had found good positions and decided to stay in D'hara. One of them was an uncle who Koli was quite fond of, and was lynched.
Or, in other words, the dice indicated that one of the few family members Koli cared about was in Port Nebel, and then further indicated that he did not flee in time.
Sucks for him, had he done a better job at what he was supposed to do, perhaps the peasants wouldn't have lynched him.
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Sucks for him, had he done a better job at what he was supposed to do, perhaps the peasants wouldn't have lynched him.
Zing!
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Achemmm.
Hello, Madina ;)
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Why hello Aurvandil. come here often?
It's been oh so boring here until now!
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Why hello Aurvandil. come here often?
It's been oh so boring here until now!
Clearly they should visit more.
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They should just bring in some diplomats and try to buy out the tower.
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If the numbers say anything, it's that if Aurvandil ever does take the Tower, Madina will probably be overrun.
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If the numbers say anything, it's that if Aurvandil ever does take the Tower, Madina will probably be overrun.
I knew this long ago. The numbers aren't really all, the geography change would be immense: instead of having a chokepoint that locks Aurvandil to their capital, they would have an extra layer of protection and be able to go fight on unfortified regions.
If Aurvandil gets the tower, one way or another, Madina's done for.
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That and the fact that they have many rural regions in between Fatmilak and Madina, plus their refit time will be longer.. so yeah, if the Tower falls, Madina is screwed. We managed to take down their stronghold walls, but we won't be back for another month or two.
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That and the fact that they have many rural regions in between Fatmilak and Madina, plus their refit time will be longer.. so yeah, if the Tower falls, Madina is screwed. We managed to take down their stronghold walls, but we won't be back for another month or two.
What's needed to buy a region again? Other than loads of gold?
'cause if it's just gold, it would totally be a worthwhile investment for Aurvandil...
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You can't buy regions in the Capital Perimeter. Nice try, though. (The game tells you something like that :P)
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You can't buy regions in the Capital Perimeter. Nice try, though. (The game tells you something like that :P)
But it isn't.
Madina city is Madina's capital, no? Should be far enough away.
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Can't really check. I thought the Capital was moved with the whole Madina City being made to revolt to oust the Duke. You can check it though :P
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Damn, it's the tower.
I guess that settles that.
They should try to all move their family mansions to the tower, then, and dump thousands of gold on it one shot to make it revolt to them.
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Damn, it's the tower.
I guess that settles that.
They should try to all move their family mansions to the tower, then, and dump thousands of gold on it one shot to make it revolt to them.
You wouldn't consider that meta gaming? You are basing the decision to move a family mansion, which should be a RP decision solely on a desire to access a certain game mechanic?
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You wouldn't consider that meta gaming? You are basing the decision to move a family mansion, which should be a RP decision solely on a desire to access a certain game mechanic?
Would it be meta-gaming to move your unit into a region so that you could loot it?
No...
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Would it be meta-gaming to move your unit into a region so that you could loot it?
No...
Looting enemy regions is somewhat different to uprooting your family and placing them in an enemy realm though isn't. Don't worry extended family members with young children and wives, even though we regularly call these people pirates and doubt their nobility, I have no doubt you will be completely safe within their borders. This is forgetting the whole issue of exactly HOW you would even get permission to settle your family there, and forgetting that they would have to all select the hero subclass to even do it.
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Looting enemy regions is somewhat different to uprooting your family and placing them in an enemy realm though isn't. Don't worry extended family members with young children and wives, even though we regularly call these people pirates and doubt their nobility, I have no doubt you will be completely safe within their borders. This is forgetting the whole issue of exactly HOW you would even get permission to settle your family there, and forgetting that they would have to all select the hero subclass to even do it.
Privileges of being of the upper class, the elite of the elite? Same presumptions of unbreakable social norms that dictate that you can't execute someone without banning him first.
As to how to get permission to settle there, that's pretty obvious: gold. Doesn't cost a bucketload of it for nothing. I suspect bribes have a good deal to do with it.
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They should try to all move their family mansions to the tower, then, and dump thousands of gold on it one shot to make it revolt to them.
....
I really want to believe you're joking.
But then... I'm not totally sure.
We managed to take down their stronghold walls, but we won't be back for another month or two.
Stronghold walls?
LOL.
Last time ya'll were boasting about getting them down to Palisades.
So... you got them down to Palisades... and the next time you attacked... they were up to Stronghold again?
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They should try to all move their family mansions to the tower, then, and dump thousands of gold on it one shot to make it revolt to them.
You call asking for a torture report metagaming, and then suggest crap like this?
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You call asking for a torture report metagaming, and then suggest crap like this?
I would never expect them to actually do it.
But then again, I don't see your point. It's a complicated manoeuvre, that is extremely costly and has probably poor odds of success.
"Keep your friends close, and your enemies even closer". I didn't really give it much thought, as I never expected such a thing to happen (or hell, to be worthwhile at all), but upon a simple glance I don't see an issue with it. It's perfectly in line with the "plausible deniability" schemes that have been pushed and the social norms enforced by the game that say you really can't punish high nobles unless you proved they did something (if they are foreign, at least).
It's really not that good a suggestion, else people would have done it elsewhere already by now. Costs a ton of gold to move that house, and only heroes can do it too. Heroes are people who love risks, I guess, so that makes sense that they would be the kind of people willing to go buy a plot of land in hostile soils to set up there. Maybe you could argue that it'd be foolish to expose the family like that, but BM social norms dictate that they wouldn't be hurt. And besides, the house costs a tonload. Do you really think they build the mansion out of wood? It costs more than frigging walls! The family mansion is obviously fortified. And considering the ties they have with local rebels, I would assume that it is well-defended as well, and that any action against it would risk popular revolt. Hence why no BM character or NPC ever attacks the mansions.
Every part of it can be explained through IC means in a way that actually makes sense. Mind explaining to me in an IC way how we can know that scribe reports can never be fabricated or tampered with?
The kind of money that is needed to move the mansion is considerable. It leaves plenty of room for RP explanations of why things are as they are afterwards.
And note that this comment was just thrown like this OOC. While it could be justifiable IC, that doesn't mean it would be justified for everyone, and I don't see myself ever suggesting such a thing IC.
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You call asking for a torture report metagaming, and then suggest crap like this?
Kind of my thought.
See? I at least am consistent! I just think you're all metagamers. ;)
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....
I really want to believe you're joking.
But then... I'm not totally sure.
Stronghold walls?
LOL.
Last time ya'll were boasting about getting them down to Palisades.
So... you got them down to Palisades... and the next time you attacked... they were up to Stronghold again?
Is that boasting? I was telling what happened in the battle. It was a good battle 23k CS vs 15k CS behind level 4 walls. We managed to get on top of the walls with a lot of infantry, but their infantry were better equiped than ours, something we gotta work on.
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I would never expect them to actually do it.
But then again, I don't see your point. It's a complicated manoeuvre, that is extremely costly and has probably poor odds of success.
None of which alters the fact that this is one of the most ridiculously meta-gaming suggestions I have ever heard.
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I just think you're all metagamers. ;)
All joking aside, it's essentially impossible to /not/ meta-game in some fashion or other when playing the game. Even the rate at which our characters throw themselves into battle completely without fear of the consequences is meta-gaming.
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It was a good battle 23k CS vs 15k CS behind level 4 walls.
(http://battlemaster.org/statistics/realmstat.php?ShowWorld=8&Type=Military&simple=0&ShowOnly=36,4)
/me lols
Aurvandil loses 16K CS, and Madina loses 5K. Why did you stick round for a second round?
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None of which alters the fact that this is one of the most ridiculously meta-gaming suggestions I have ever heard.
Then tell me, is writing a message meta-gaming, because you know it'll arrive in real-time despite such things not working IRL?
There's a clear distinction between using the tools available when appropriate and using them because of how they differ from what real life would make them work like.
Please elaborate on why you think it is metagaming. I've already asked this, and you content yourself with saying "this is bad", without justification. I'm starting to think some of you you are just starting to stalk me to shout "but isn't THAT metagaming!" at every thing I say.
None of what I suggested, as explained in my previous post, would be done or justifiable by how the game mechanics work as opposed to RL. You could perhaps claim "power gaming", which is very different from meta gaming, but I'd disagree with you then too because 1) it costs so much there's nothing powerful about it and 2) what the hell else is the feature even there for?
Some factors, like the fact that nobody can take action against the family mansion, aid the action in being more potent. But that's just an extra. You wouldn't move your mansion because it's untouchable, you move it because it'll allow your family to go meddle in other people's stuff. Just like writing messages. You don't write them because they are delivered in real-time, you write them because you have something to say. Doesn't make the real-time bit any less potent, but still doesn't make writing messages meta-gaming.
Meta-gaming is all about justification of intent. Are you doing something that you would not do IRL because of how it differs in the game-world? If yes, then it's meta-gaming. If not, then it isn't. It can be a whole lot of other things, but it's not meta-gaming.
And a whole bunch of high noble families in the middle ages sent their family here and there, everywhere, to exerce influence in foreign lands. So it's totally something that is justifiable IC.
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Is that boasting? I was telling what happened in the battle. It was a good battle 23k CS vs 15k CS behind level 4 walls. We managed to get on top of the walls with a lot of infantry, but their infantry were better equiped than ours, something we gotta work on.
I'm just loling at the fact that you've viewed the last two battles in Tower Fatmilak in a row as "accomplishing your goals," and yet Madina's defenses get stronger every time.
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Then tell me, is writing a message meta-gaming, because you know it'll arrive in real-time despite such things not working IRL?
Yes. :)
Actually, there is quite a bit of metagaming that we all do. But that doesn't mean that every bit of it is bad. Letters and how the message system works is a prime example of this. The ability for instant communication that all of our characters blithely use without a second thought is something that cannot be explained in an IG/IC way. Yet we all use it, and depend on it. So, we are all metagamers.
The thing is, you simply can't play BattleMaster without dong a lot of metagaming. (Depending, of course, on how you define metagaming. But that's really not important.)
Please elaborate on why you think it is metagaming.
Seriously, you can't think why this is just a really, really nasty example of metagaming, and simply poor play?
OK, for starters, you proposed that an entire realm (or significantly large portion of it that it doesn't matter) changes class to hero, then picks up 500-600 gold each, and moves into the enemy's capital, then sends letters to their beloved families and asks them to relocate their family mansions to the middle of a war zone, into land that just happens to be controlled by their mortal enemies. Yea, I just bet dear old Aunt Tilly will be thrilled about that. "Oh, don't worry, Aunt Tilly, I'm sure the Madinans will welcome you with open arms. They wouldn't dare arrest you, toss you into a dungeon, and seize all of your new land."
I'm starting to think some of you you are just starting to stalk me to shout "but isn't THAT metagaming!" at every thing I say.
Wups... you caught me.
1) it costs so much there's nothing powerful about it
"It can't be metagaming/powergaming. It's expensive."
Meta-gaming is all about justification of intent. Are you doing something that you would not do IRL because of how it differs in the game-world? If yes, then it's meta-gaming.
Which is exactly the case with your proposal. You proposed that they all move their family homes into a war zone in a region held by their enemy. Is this something that makes sense, and seems even the tiniest little bit realistic? Of course not. The fact that family mansions can't be seized/looted/etc. is the only thing that would keep them from being, well, looted and seized by the enemy.
And a whole bunch of high noble families in the middle ages sent their family here and there, everywhere, to exerce influence in foreign lands. So it's totally something that is justifiable IC.
Yeah, sent various family members around. Not relocated their entire family and estates at the drop of a hat.
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Sorry Chénier, I'm with Indirik on this one. It's metagaming because there is no IG/realistic explanation for doing something like this.
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The fact that family mansions can't be seized/looted/etc. is the only thing that would keep them from being, well, looted and seized by the enemy.
I've often wished they could be.
Would create new political concerns.
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I'm just loling at the fact that you've viewed the last two battles in Tower Fatmilak in a row as "accomplishing your goals," and yet Madina's defenses get stronger every time.
you come play in Aurvandil, wait around for 2 months THEN attack them. It feels like more then getting mauled by Madina, because we actually got to fight each other on epic proportions! But I've never liked Atamara of it, that's what I live for - those huge battles and scant exchange between the enemy. If we got back and forth as we have been, now it's Madina's turn to swat at us.
(http://battlemaster.org/statistics/realmstat.php?ShowWorld=8&Type=Military&simple=0&ShowOnly=36,4)
/me lols
Aurvandil loses 16K CS, and Madina loses 5K. Why did you stick round for a second round?
To damage their walls enough that they went down to level 3.
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To damage their walls enough that they went down to level 3.
Depending on how bad their walls were, you may have saved them some money by knocking them down.
Regardless, let's say you lost 300 soldiers in the second battle. At 35/10, that's 1,050 gold you lost. Chances are that the walls cost, at most, about that much to rebuild to lvl 4. Doesn't seem like a very good trade. You could have saved the expense of rehiring all those men, and left them with probably somewhere around a 900 gold bill for repairing the walls. This would also shorten your refit times considerably. But if you lost a bit more than that, say, 400 men, then you definitely got the short end of the stick.
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What sort of crappy soldiers are you using that only cost 35/10?
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But I've never liked Atamara of it, that's what I live for - those huge battles and scant exchange between the enemy.
You left Helmsdale too soon. We regularly pawn the Caergoth aggressors every other week in massive battles 8)
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What sort of crappy soldiers are you using that only cost 35/10?
Well, they are a small realm. And with their small economy, and the massive troops numbers they are tossing around, I figured I would give them the benefit of the doubt. If you assume better troops at the rate of 40/10 or even 45/10, then the numbers get much, much worse for Aurvandil.
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Any update on the war? I'm taking a bit of a break from BM whilst life is hectic so not able to take part in taking back our grand city from the stinky rebels!
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Any update on the war? I'm taking a bit of a break from BM whilst life is hectic so not able to take part in taking back our grand city from the stinky rebels!
Aurvandil just assaulted Tower Fatmilak and overpowered Madina. There was little way their near-9k CS would defeat our 25k CS, but I don't know what they were thinking. Either they have a heavy rogue problem, lack of activity, or the new Doge has something to do with a weakly guarded capital!
Anyways, next few weeks should be interesting, once this TO of Tower Fatmilak is complete we'll have free range up to Madina city, which wont last long!
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It was really a combo of all the above. Rogues popped up, nearly half the nobles left the realm, new Doge is still getting settled in.
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Ouch :)
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Yeah.... I'm having a hard time seeing Madina come back from this one.
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End of Madina coming soon?
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Coming soon to a continent near you: The End of Madina!
Brought to you by Aurvandil.
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Next up on the target list: Maroccidens!
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Can y'all hurry up the destruction of Madina already? With only Madina and PeL being of the original four realms of Dwilight, I'd like to see Pian be the last one surviving, and it doesn't look like Pian has much time left either.
Let the race begin!
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Although you could insinuate that the Morek Empire is a continuation of Morek. Meaning that there's three still left.
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Although you could insinuate that the Morek Empire is a continuation of Morek. Meaning that there's three still left.
The original realm died. Simple as that.
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Not to the people who are or were a part of Morek Empire. Hence the name of the realm.
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The original realm died. Simple as that.
The ironic part of that is that Morek killed Springdale, and Springdale's last region was Nifelhold.
And then when it came time for "Morek" to die, their last region was ... Nifelhold!
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Sounds like a graveyard of realms to me.
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Not to the people who are or were a part of Morek Empire. Hence the name of the realm.
I understand what you are saying, but it has traditionally been viewed that once a realm is destroyed, even if nobles remake it soon thereafter it is no longer one of the founding realms of continent.
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The thing with this is that Xinhai seceded from Morek, still claiming to be the successors of the original realm. They then later on reintegrated the last region of Morek into the realm, and changed their name to reflect their status as a continuation of Morek. I'd probably ask the player of Allison or Bustoarsenzio for more information, since this is from before Gustav became a part of the realm.
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Well, yes, technically that is what happened. Donghai seceded from Morek to create Xinhai. Then Morek died. Then Xinhai was renamed to "Morek Empire". But it is not, technically, Morek, any more than the Libero Empire is Springdale.
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Which is why I said you could insinuate. I probably should have said insinuate IC, but oh well. Makes for a good discussion.
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yeah what Indirik and silverfire said is right. morek is technically dead, even if IC we would disagree with that :)
And no, what is now morek empire didn't take the last region of the "true" morek that was nifelhold. It was roleplayed that during the last days of the original Morek, when Libero was taking over Nifelhold, Allison claimed back the insignas and royal standards of morek and earned the right to rename the realm and continue its heritage.
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Which is why I said you could insinuate. I probably should have said insinuate IC, but oh well. Makes for a good discussion.
Luria Nova could just as easily claim to be a continuation of Pian en Luries if you go with that.
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Luria Nova could just as easily claim to be a continuation of Pian en Luries if you go with that.
Bah Solaria is the true continuation of PeL :)
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And Asylon the continuation of old Thulsoma... Muhahahaha
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And Asylon the continuation of old Thulsoma... Muhahahaha
Asylon came from the womb of Caerwyn whether you like it or not :P
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Looks like Fissoa will need to become the new Madina? How's the war going? Looks like Aurvandil is ready to mop up the Republic...
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Let's make a simple solution: RealmDetails.php?ID=ABC where ABC=an integer from 0 to infinity (Theoretically)
Now type in the numbers 0, 1, 2, 3, 4. You will find that (rogue) doesn't count, and that only 3 and 4, being PeL and Madina, respectively, still exist. That's the end-all decider of who wins in survival of original realms (Neither, btw, since technically (rogue) will outlast everything.)
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Looks like Fissoa will need to become the new Madina?
Better question is where will all the Madinan and ex-Caerwynian refugees head to?
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Better question is where will all the Madinan and ex-Caerwynian refugees head to?
Pian? Meh, what am I saying, we'll be destroyed way faster than Madina. So I guess Pian could head to Madina and save it from destruction?
I guess, both realms could all go join SA, and give them the strength they need to finally conquer the entire continent.
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Except that the Caerwynians all hate us passionately (see: Kabrinskia, capital of), with the Madinans being indifferent at best, hostile at worse.
I think they should all head for Pian en Luries and shift the balance of power over there. Luria just isn't Luria without surprising changes in fortune. Plus, there's not many other places to go... I suppose they could join a Maroccidental realm, but then that realm would have to worry about the destabilizing force of that many new arrivals. The hardcore Madinans would hate Aurvandil, which might cause problems for Terran or Barca, while the Caerwynians would hate SA, which could lead to trouble for Terran or D'Hara. Likewise for Asylon, though they're not technically Maroccidental. Everywhere else outside of Luria is Astroist.
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Except that the Caerwynians all hate us passionately (see: Kabrinskia, capital of), with the Madinans being indifferent at best, hostile at worse.
I think they should all head for Pian en Luries and shift the balance of power over there. Luria just isn't Luria without surprising changes in fortune. Plus, there's not many other places to go... I suppose they could join a Maroccidental realm, but then that realm would have to worry about the destabilizing force of that many new arrivals. The hardcore Madinans would hate Aurvandil, which might cause problems for Terran or Barca, while the Caerwynians would hate SA, which could lead to trouble for Terran or D'Hara. Likewise for Asylon, though they're not technically Maroccidental. Everywhere else outside of Luria is Astroist.
I imagine the Maroccidens will see some Madinan/Caerwynian exiles, but, yeah, I would wager that Fissoa and the Lurias get the bulk of them.
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I love the chaos!
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Mm...people often love chaos until it visits them.
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Very true. There is nothing more fun to watch than fights and fire.
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Mm...people often love chaos until it visits them.
Its been chaos since day 1 on Dwilight.
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Been a way a while again. From what I'm reading, Madina is now dead? :S
That shall be fun when I finally un-pause Halicos after about 2 RL months (so about a year IG?) of "hunting in Fatmilak forest". Hmm, I'll have to think hard about how to RP this one when I get back. I'm fairly certain his trading tactics have lead him to have few friends in Aurvandil & D'Hara, so either the remains of Madina or Fissoa.
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Not according to http://battlemaster.org/maps-8/WorldMap-Current.jpg ?
But then, I'm not on Dwilight atm
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It's not quite dead, but they did suffer a catastrophic defeat in Tower Fatmilak. If they lose that, then they're gonna have a very hard time bouncing back.
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I wonder if D'Hara will now become a lot more pro-Aurvandil (If they weren't already recently) since they seem to have managed to break Madina's most important location.
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Why didn't that stronghold have level 9 walls and tons of militia?
Weirdo pirates.
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Cuz they can't amass that much gold.
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I imagine the Maroccidens will see some Madinan/Caerwynian exiles, but, yeah, I would wager that Fissoa and the Lurias get the bulk of them.
I sure hope so :) Fissoa has always welcomed people with grudges :P Me and others from Myern, Loathin and others from Giask, who not Madinians to take back their lands or Pianese to destroy Luria Nova? :D
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D'Hara can probably take 6 or so nobles.
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LN can take 15 now, and another 10 in a little while.
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Astrum always welcomed people willing to convert. :D
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Come to Asylon, we have new lands that need to be taken care of :)
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This is quite fun to read, but do note Allomere hasn't killed Madina just yet, ;)
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My bet is they go to Solaria and negotiate with the tyrannical (is that spelled right?) King Malus to settle the Flow city before Morek Empire does. There are still some Caerwynites in Madina, I bet they would rather go on another colonization attempt then mold into another realm and their needs.
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My bet is they go to Solaria and negotiate with the tyrannical (is that spelled right?) King Malus to settle the Flow city before Morek Empire does. There are still some Caerwynites in Madina, I bet they would rather go on another colonization attempt then mold into another realm and their needs.
Two things—
It's Arbiter, not king! There are entirely too many monarchies in the game.
Flowrestown is not Solaria's to grant. It's Morek's, and Bustoarsenzio is a much tougher customer than Malus. Malus is a huge softie.
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No one wants to mess with Busto...
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That's because he's got Brance backing him up. :P ::)
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You only need to look at the war between Xinhai and the two Empires to realize how tough a customer he is.
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...nearly half the nobles left the realm...
Why, what happened?
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Why, what happened?
I'm not really sure. As far as I can tell there was the player cleanup which knocked a bunch of our players away (apparently it did not effect Aurvandil as dramatically). Then about 6-10 players got bored of the continually stalemate and back and forth combat, so they left for other continents.
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Well active accounts don't get deleted anyway .. how did that affect Madina? The only thing that contributed to us winning in TF was you didn't seem to have even half your force defending it, right when we made a mega army.
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"Aurvandil has taken control of Tower Fatmilak. The region used to belong to Madina."
Ouch. That's gonna leave a mark...
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"Aurvandil has taken control of Tower Fatmilak. The region used to belong to Madina."
I was really surprised to see this. Madina dropped the ball when they moved the capitol to the Tower. They could have learned a few lessons from the battles of Valkyrja and Storms Keep. HUGE walls are tough to break. A month of throwing all the gold you had into the walls of the Tower would have made it nearly impossible to storm. How big were the walls on the Tower?
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I'm just loving watching Madina's lord capitulate.
Vindicates everything anyone ever thought about the ineffectiveness of Madina's constitution.
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I was really surprised to see this. Madina dropped the ball when they moved the capitol to the Tower. They could have learned a few lessons from the battles of Valkyrja and Storms Keep. HUGE walls are tough to break. A month of throwing all the gold you had into the walls of the Tower would have made it nearly impossible to storm. How big were the walls on the Tower?
Level 4 with about 8k behind the walls, a bit less. They were level 4 the last time we had attacked, too..
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They should have turtled up Thulsoma style. Then again, everything I keep hearing about Madina suggests that it would have been next to impossible to get the other lords to contribute anything to the effort. Level 7 walls with 8k CS behind them would have broken most armies, though that last one was so big, who knows. We took down Valkyrja with about that much defending strength (maybe more even, can't quite remember anymore) and we had 40k CS. And the battle wasn't that difficult. 30k CS, we might still have managed, and so might have Aurvandil.
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I'm just loving watching Madina's lord capitulate.
Vindicates everything anyone ever thought about the ineffectiveness of Madina's constitution.
that was the whole point of the constitution. XD
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that was the whole point of the constitution. XD
This, the whole POINT of Madina seem to be about making sure the realm would be almost impossible to unify. Probably seemed pretty safe when you consider you can only enter their realm through a city or a stronghold.
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They should have turtled up Thulsoma style. Then again, everything I keep hearing about Madina suggests that it would have been next to impossible to get the other lords to contribute anything to the effort. Level 7 walls with 8k CS behind them would have broken most armies, though that last one was so big, who knows. We took down Valkyrja with about that much defending strength (maybe more even, can't quite remember anymore) and we had 40k CS. And the battle wasn't that difficult. 30k CS, we might still have managed, and so might have Aurvandil.
We had a lot more siege engines when we hit Valkyrja, though. I forget how many we had, but it was at least double what Aurvandil had.
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We had a lot more siege engines when we hit Valkyrja, though. I forget how many we had, but it was at least double what Aurvandil had.
My army alone had at least 20 SE's for that last big push into Valkyrja.
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This, the whole POINT of Madina seem to be about making sure the realm would be almost impossible to unify. Probably seemed pretty safe when you consider you can only enter their realm through a city or a stronghold.
well.. it's supposed to give dukes lots of power... until you appoint the wrong duke.
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Man, if Thulsoma had the resources that Madina has...why why why Fatmilak was not as pimped up as Storms Keep? ???
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You did know that Fatmilak was owned by Madina, right?
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any it's a rural anyway...
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Well, yes, but I think he was referring to Tower Fatmilak the stronghold, not Fatmilak the rural.
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Man, if Thulsoma had the resources that Madina has...why why why Fatmilak was not as pimped up as Storms Keep? ???
Because like we said Madina culture didn't really push unity. Probably find that those that had the gold didn't want to give it up for some stronghold that wasn't theirs. Given that we have already seen some regions jump over it is also entirely possible that many in Madina WANTED the realm to fall.
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Because like we said Madina culture didn't really push unity. Probably find that those that had the gold didn't want to give it up for some stronghold that wasn't theirs. Given that we have already seen some regions jump over it is also entirely possible that many in Madina WANTED the realm to fall.
This is true considering Fatmilak and Bol immediately joined Aurvandil upon Tower Fatmilak's take over. Now Madina even less days to live :D
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Because like we said Madina culture didn't really push unity. Probably find that those that had the gold didn't want to give it up for some stronghold that wasn't theirs. Given that we have already seen some regions jump over it is also entirely possible that many in Madina WANTED the realm to fall.
Actually the defenses of the Tower were greatly reduced because the newly appointed Marshal of one of the armies decided to take his army on maneuvers away from the Tower and no one objected.
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Did he sell out and betray you?
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This is true considering Fatmilak and Bol immediately joined Aurvandil upon Tower Fatmilak's take over. Now Madina even less days to live :D
If Halicos had been there to see that, the Lord of Fatmilak would be facing a good duel to the death right now. Hmm... Return RP sorted!
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If Halicos had been there to see that, the Lord of Fatmilak would be facing a good duel to the death right now. Hmm... Return RP sorted!
Hey, Corin was only ever loyal to Halicos and Fatmilak. He never had time for loyalty to Madina. So, bring it to him! Though I honestly cant say if he'd accept it. He's rather plump and lazy in all things not regarding trade.
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Hey, Corin was only ever loyal to Halicos and Fatmilak. He never had time for loyalty to Madina. So, bring it to him! Though I honestly cant say if he'd accept it. He's rather plump and lazy in all things not regarding trade.
Ahh, that confuses things, Halicos is fairly fond of Corin. Didn't know he was still Lord of Fatmilak. Hmm...